Author Topic: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war  (Read 12213 times)

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Offline DCUBED

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India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« on: November 30, 2008, 02:06:31 pm »
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5746

Indian air and missile forces on war footing, Pakistani armored units diverted from Afghan border

DEBKAfile's military sources report that on Sunday, Nov. 30, Asia's two nuclear powers, India and Pakistan, took their first steps towards a conventional war. India, claiming evidence of Pakistan's involvement in the Islamist terrorist assault on Mumbai, placed its air and missile units on war preparedness, while Pakistan, disclaiming the charge, diverted its armed divisions from the Afghan border to its frontier with India.

Military experts fear a full-blown war could spill over into combat with tactical nuclear weapons.

For the Indian government, the last straw was the admission by Azam Amir Kasab, aged 21, the only terrorist known to have been captured by Indian forces, that Lashkar e-Taiba was behind the assault which claimed 174 lives, injured hundreds and devastated India's financial capital.

This Kashmiri group has links to both al Qaeda and the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence agency.

From its outset on Wednesday, Nov. 26, the scale, coordination and clockwork targeting of the assault clearly betrayed the hand of a major national intelligence agency. Evidence also mounted that the attackers had reached Mumbai by boat from Karachi.

Five months ago, Taliban suicide killers attacked the Indian embassy in Kabul, claiming 60 lives including that of the Indian military attaché. The New Delhi government then found leads to Pakistan's clandestine service as the prime mover behind the outrage. Washington came up with the same proofs.

The Manmohan Singh government sees the Mumbai assault as a second, escalated Pakistani act of war-by-terror and cannot afford to avoid a strong, immediate response - particularly with a general election around the corner next May. If Singh braves the media and public howls for Pakistani blood and shows the same restraint as he did after the Kabul attack, he will lose his seat.

Domestic opinion is goading the New Delhi to act tough after what is perceived as the poor, slow and unprofessional performance of the police and special forces in quelling the terrorists. Indian commandoes were brought in 10 hours after the terrorists took over and it took them 60 hours to finally gain control of the three hostage sites Saturday, Nov. 29. Sunday, home minister Shivraj Patil resigned in response to the clamor followed by national security advisor MK Narayanan.

India and Pakistan have fought three wars and barely avoided a fourth in 2001.

President George Bush and his successor Barack Obama cannot hope for much headway in defusing Indian-Pakistan tension. With only a few weeks left in the White House, Bush does not have much leverage and Obama even less for pulling the two adversaries apart. While campaigning, the president-elect pledged to work to mend the fences between India and Pakistan and broker their Kashmir conflict. In the present climate, neither is looking for a mediator.
“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”  - Arthur Conan Doyle

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." J. Edgar Hoover

Offline Dig

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 02:44:14 pm »
Bhutto was supposed to be the CFR sponsored head of Pakistan before the army got to her.

Looks like India is falling right into the CFR gameplan though.

Very disturbing.

India/Pakistan is the next Iran/Iraq.

We will fund both sides as population control via warfare is enacted.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline chris jones

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2008, 03:14:59 pm »
Quote from Sane.



India/Pakistan is the next Iran/Iraq.

We will fund both sides as population control via warfare is enacted.

Exactly. 

What comes to mind is the situation in Georgia, the fact that evidence of US military advisors as found to include Blackwaters involment, before and after Georgias invasion and the killing of Russians troops. Fox of course placing blame on Russia.

A puppet show normally has a curtain keeping the string pullers out of sight.  (Who are those behind the curtains in this catastrophe).

P.S. ( I'm finaly back on line, with no confusion, a line interfased to my home has been removed, and all is well). Strange, the line itself was from the street and had been installed from the telephone pole where my elec. lines enter. The workers had no knowledge of this, or explanation for its purpose. Life goes on!!

Offline David Rothscum

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2008, 03:49:19 pm »
Quote from Sane.



India/Pakistan is the next Iran/Iraq.

We will fund both sides as population control via warfare is enacted.

Exactly. 

What comes to mind is the situation in Georgia, the fact that evidence of US military advisors as found to include Blackwaters involment, before and after Georgias invasion and the killing of Russians troops. Fox of course placing blame on Russia.

A puppet show normally has a curtain keeping the string pullers out of sight.  (Who are those behind the curtains in this catastrophe).

P.S. ( I'm finaly back on line, with no confusion, a line interfased to my home has been removed, and all is well). Strange, the line itself was from the street and had been installed from the telephone pole where my elec. lines enter. The workers had no knowledge of this, or explanation for its purpose. Life goes on!!
Glad to see you're back Chris. These criminals will keep us fighting against eachother until there's none of us left if we don't stop them.

Boubear

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2008, 03:55:11 pm »
WHO WINS, WHO LOSES

Winners —

Arab Shia State

Armenia

Azerbaijan

Free Baluchistan

Free Kurdistan

Islamic Sacred State

Jordan

Lebanon

Yemen



Losers —

Afghanistan

Iran

Iraq

Israel

Kuwait

Pakistan

Qatar

Saudi Arabia

Syria

Turkey

United Arab Emirates

West Bank


Offline Optimus

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2008, 03:58:49 pm »
Pakistan moves army from terror front to India border
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24731282-25837,00.html
Bruce Loudon, South Asia correspondent | December 01, 2008
Article from:  The Australian
 
PAKISTAN is withdrawing troops from the fight against al-Qa'ida and the Taliban to redeploy them to its border with India as tensions between the two nuclear-armed nations escalate over the terrorist massacre in Mumbai.

As the clean-up began after terrorists killed at least 195 people, including two Australians, the only gunman captured provided testimony of the operation's links to a Pakistan-based militant group, intelligence sources said yesterday.

Ajmal Amir Kamal, 21, whose clean-shaven face has become an enduring image of the attacks after he was caught on a CCTV camera wearing a Versace T-shirt, was interrogated in a safe house in Mumbai.

He identified all the attackers as Pakistani citizens and acknowledged that they were trained by Lashkar-e-Toiba, a militant group fighting Indian rule in Kashmir, reports said.

He confirmed the militants had come ashore in dinghies launched from a hijacked vessel whose crew had been killed, reports said.

Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari urged India not to "overreact" after Indian and US officials suggested the militants could have been from the Pakistan-based LET. The group was behind the deadly 2001 assault on the Indian parliament that pushed New Delhi and Islamabad to the brink of war.

"If something happens (amid the rising tensions with India), the war on terror cannot be our priority," a senior Pakistani official told a media briefing yesterday.

"We'll take everything from the western border (with Afghanistan - the main area of al-Qa'ida and Taliban activity). We won't leave anything there." Indian army sources said forces near Pakistan had been placed on a raised alert before a meeting that Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called with security chiefs in New Delhi today. Mr Zardari was meeting Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and his army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, amid fears that the Mumbai crisis had the potential for a replay of the 2001 standoff.

Dr Singh cancelled a meeting with Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi in New Delhi over the weekend.

At the same time, Pakistan's army forced the country's civilian Government into an embarrassing about-face after it had earlier agreed to bow to Indian pressure and send the head of the Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency to New Delhi to help in the Mumbai investigation.

Mr Zardari and Mr Qureshi denied the assault was launched by terrorists trained and based in Pakistan. Conceding that the confrontation between the two nuclear-armed neighbours was extremely serious, Mr Qureshi called on India to ease the tension. "It is in Pakistan's interests and in India's interests to defuse the situation. Lowering of tension is essential.

"Finger-pointing or coming to hasty conclusions will play into the hands of the common enemy, that is, the terrorists."

India's Home Minister, the Government's most senior security official, last night quit the cabinet, becoming the first major scalp following the intelligence failure that led to the massacre.

The resignation of Shivraj Patil was followed by that of National Security Adviser MK Narayanan. Sources said other heads were expected to roll as the crisis within the Government deepened over what was the worst terrorist attack in India, and one which is being referred to as "India's 9/11".

Mr Patil, a powerful figure because of his closeness to India's supreme political leader, Italian-born Sonia Gandhi, had for months been under fire because of the growing number of terrorist attacks across the country. But until last night he had managed to cling to his position.

Public outrage over the Government's failure to get to grips with the issue of terrorism had, however, become too much for him to withstand.

Political analysts said that while the departure of Mr Patil would be widely welcomed, it was likely to do little to save the Government from severe criticism over its failures on the terrorism front - failures that many believe have the potential to drive it from office at elections due before May.

US President George W. Bush pledged full support to India as it investigated the attacks, saying the killers "will not have the final word". "The killers who struck this week are brutal and violent," Mr Bush said.

"But terror will not have the final word. The people of India are resilient. The people of India are strong. They have built a vibrant, multi-ethnic democracy. They can withstand this trial."

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

>>> Global Gulag Media & Forum <<<

Offline Dig

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2008, 04:14:30 pm »



When this map was leaked years ago, Turkey went apeshit and it has been denied since then as a goal.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061116&articleId=3882

But we can see the writing on the wall.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline EchelonMonitor

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2008, 11:33:13 pm »
The media has been softening people's brains up for this, including Rachel Maddow:


Rachel Maddow Presents War Propaganda
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-XNAy2hs6oI

Offline Revolt426

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2008, 11:38:19 pm »
Reachel Maddow is one ofthe biggest recent dissapointments, always  happily exposing Cheney/Bush Crimes but when Obama is elected she begins talking about the tremendous AL Queda threats all over the world
"Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate … It will purge the rottenness out of the system..." - Andrew Mellon, Secretary of Treasury, 1929.

Offline EchelonMonitor

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2008, 06:44:32 am »
« With a traumatized nation and a paralyzed government, a core group of secular right-wing ideologues and Hindu nationalists are executing a 'soft coup' in New Delhi to bring to power hawks who want to pursue America's agenda of grooming India as a regional policeman, sort out Pakistan and confront China. India will self-destroy in the process.  India's military and intelligence has been penetrated. The man who uncovered the plot, Hemant Karkare, the antiterrorism chief of Mumbai police, was the first target of the mysterious terrorists. Patriotic Indians need to wake up and save their country. » Ahmad Quraishi, Saturday, 29 November 2008.

Quote
There is no denying that the United States and Israel have been grooming India to become a regional superpower for their benefits.In so doing, they have to persuade India that she is a victim of terror herself, especially from her enemies in Pakistan, occupied Kashmir and Muslim extremists within India proper.

http://www.defimedia.info/blogs/688/Mumbai-Attack---India-and-the-Axis-of-Evil.html

Offline voodo0

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2008, 05:26:43 pm »

India may still strike at Pakistan: US report


NEW DELHI: India may have ruled out the military option against Pakistan in the aftermath of Mumbai terror attacks but the international

intelligence community continues to believe that strikes in PoK and elsewhere could still happen.

Global intelligence service Stratfor, in its latest report, said, "Indian military operations against targets in Pakistan have in fact been prepared and await the signal to go forward."

It added, "These most likely would take the form of unilateral precision strikes inside Pakistan-administered Kashmir, along with special forces action on the ground in Pakistan proper."

The private sector intelligence service said that unlike the massive movements of 2002 during Operation Parakram, India's preparations this time were more under the radar and not visible to the world at large. Its only indication was the fact that the Border Security Force (BSF) has been put on high alert on the western sector as well as the eastern sector — this paramilitary force's main mandate would be to prevent infiltration.

"Sources have indicated to Stratfor that New Delhi is going through the diplomatic motions in order to give Pakistan the opportunity to take care of the militant problem itself — but the Indians know that Islamabad has neither the will nor the capability to address their concerns," Stratfor said.

Three weeks after the attacks, India has gone out of its way to reassure everyone that it is not thinking of military action on Pakistan. This was most recently conveyed by Indian high commissioner to Pakistan Satyabrata Pal to Awami National Party chief Afsandyar Wali Khan in Islamabad earlier this week. But India continues to tell all its international interlocutors that its patience will not last long, particularly if Islamabad cannot crack down on terrorism.

India's actions thus far have been to build a kind of international consensus that the attacks were sourced in Pakistan. It has led to a huge spurt in international pressure on Pakistan to "do more" to combat terrorism. Almost every member of the international community also believes that the next attack in India would see the gloves come off.

But everybody knows that Pakistan's civilian government is unable to take any steps to curb terrorists and the military establishment is unwilling to do so.

"From a strategic perspective, the Indian government can no more afford to accept the Mumbai attacks and move forward than the US government could have afforded to ignore the 9/11 attacks. New Delhi has little choice but to respond — regardless of which political party is in power — and because the perpetrators are linked to elements within the Pakistani state, the response must be directed against Pakistan. And if Islamabad will not cooperate in controlling the militants, India will have to take unilateral action," Stratfor said.

It explained that India knew strikes in Pakistan would not eliminate the terrorist threat, "but that would not be the aim of any such operation". It added, "Instead, India has to communicate firmly that it will no longer tolerate attacks from Pakistan-based militants — whether they are rogue or approved by the state. Failure to do so risks emboldening the Islamists and their enablers, as well as a domestic political backlash. The Indian government could not live with either of those outcomes."


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India_may_still_strike_at_Pakistan_US_report/articleshow/3864009.cms

Offline The Kingfish

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Re: India and Pakistan take first steps towards a conventional war
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2008, 11:36:59 am »
where are all the bloggers from the military talking trash that Alex talks about on his show... everyone here seems to be legit, I wanted to talk some sh*t directly to the scum...