Author Topic: Reconstructing the water car  (Read 20035 times)

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Offline CalebJamesDeLisle

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Reconstructing the water car
« on: November 22, 2008, 07:31:41 am »
I'm sure everybody knows of Dennis Klein and Stanly Meyes, daniel dingle, "joe" from Australia, the guy in new zealand with the motorcycle. And before them Garrett, the inventor of the street light. All claimed to have working cars which ran on water.

How did they do it? Why have subsequent attempts failed? These questions have bothered backyard inventors for years.

My hypothesis:
what is needed to crack water is a high voltage low amperage dc pulse followed by a low voltage (really low about 2 volts for the average cell) pause until the next pulse.

What goes wrong 99% of the time: either the low voltage is too high and it generates too much heat, making h2 instead of browns gas, or at some point through the cycle, the voltage goes below 0 and polarity switches, locking the water molecules back together.

If I had a water cell right now, I'd connect it to a battery in series with a low bandpass filter or telecom loading coil, and connect a high voltage high frequency source to a rectifier, and connect the outputs from the rectifier to the water cell (in parallel with the battery/coil.) The coil should block the hf and protect the battery while the high voltage pings will break down the dielectric properties of the water like a spark breaks them down in air, and the power flows through the cell unimpeded.

I would supply my high voltage high frequency from a transformer with equal resistance on the primary to a speaker, and hook the primaries to the amp instead of the speaker, this way you can experiment with different frequencies.

Enough of what I think, here's what is on paper so far:

Patents:
Stanly meyer had a bunch of patents
# ^ a b U.S. Patent 5,149,407 : Process and apparatus for the production of fuel gas and the enhanced release of thermal energy from such gas
# ^ a b c U.S. Patent 4,936,961 : Method for the production of a fuel gas
# ^ U.S. Patent 4,826,581 : Controlled process for the production of thermal energy from gases and apparatus useful therefore; U.S. Patent 4,798,661 : Gas generator voltage control circuit; U.S. Patent 4,613,779 : Electrical pulse generator; U.S. Patent 4,613,304 : Gas electrical hydrogen generator;U.S. Patent 4,465,455 : Start-up/shut-down for a hydrogen gas burner; U.S. Patent 4,421,474 : Hydrogen gas burner; U.S. Patent 4,389,981 : Hydrogen gas injector system for internal combustion engine

quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer

The only patent which really matters is 5,149,407. And the main points of that patent boil down to a cell and 2 circuit diagrams:

Note the coild in the cell circuit. Meyer relied heavily on resonance, maybe not the wisest idea, but it worked.

This transformer is described in the patent as a 1 1/5 inch diameter pressed magnetic powder core (non-magnetisable) ring wrapped with the wire. What isn't mentioned but was discovered later is that this transformer is bifilar wound.

Sized to resonate with the system.

I think this design relies too heavily on the system resonating which is always a tricky business.
But it has worked. It was run on TV news, that is more than I can say for any design I may come up with.


Then there's this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu6RvCSJraw
He seems to be making water split into hydrogen, and then burn by exposing it to a magnetron. is he extracting energy from the water or only from the power company? It is well known that microwaves make plasma. It would be nice if a simple magnetron could make water split with minimal electricity, but I'd think that probably has already been tried. A safer way to experiment is to electrolize water in the presence of a powerful wifi device. wifi resonates with water, but is not powerful enough to kill you (right away)

I haven't tested, but cabletv or phone lines with dsl traffic might have the right signal (high frequency dc pulse on top of flat dc, no polarity shift)

Cabletv and telecom guys have the best chance of cracking this nut.

http://www.peswiki.com is a good site dedicated to the pursuit of alternative energy.

I'd like to hear what others have done in the hydrogen experiments realm?
Life is short, smile more! :-D

Historically, it is when the elites begin to go after the creative people and forward thinkers that their empire fails due to lack of ingenuity.

kirkajr

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2008, 05:05:15 am »
I personally haven't been able to make much progress myself, started building a 4" pvc cell and didn't put it in a vehicle and finish it.

Check out IronHead on overunity.com - http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2057.0;topicseen 

Another is ZeroFossilFuel, he has about 140 videos on youtube - http://www.youtube.com/user/ZeroFossilFuel - He had PWM circuits for sale, should have more up soon.

Zero can shed light on your circuit questions.  About resonance, Bob Boyce has made a lot of progress and has information showing you how to find resonance when building a cell.

Offline Nailer

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2008, 05:17:23 am »
If you want info on this then click on the link i posted below.  The future backyard scientists and garage inventors on the site have many working models but are trying to perfect it / make it better and some are afraid to release their data because Governments make people dissapear. Lots of great info,links, schematics and some videos.


http://oupower.com/phpBB2/


Hydrogen Production via Electrolysis
This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.
Moderator Moderator Team

Hydrogen Production non Electrolytic
This forum is for discussions regarding Hydrogen Production by all means OTHER than Electrolysis. It is also for discussing the end results of Hydrogen Applications such as Water Engines & Water Cars.


Joe Cells
Joe Cells are concentric tube capacitors using charged water as a dielectric to run a car. While sharing certain similarities, Joe Cells are not standard electrolysis. This is anything to do with Joe Cell replications, questions, projects, improvements or hybrids thereof.


Pulse Motors
Pulse Motors are sometimes referred to as "Brushless DC Pulse Motors". They are identified by their electromagnetic components such as coils and reed switches or hall effect switches. Most use permanent magnets and are brushless.
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Offline CalebJamesDeLisle

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2008, 02:55:31 am »
Oscillator which may be useful for cracking water:

This is my design for the electrical equivalent to a whistle. What makes a whistle whistle is the air coming in from the whistle-blower blocking the air from leaving through the top vent. The incoming air exceeds the outgoing air and so the chamber pressurizes. When the pressure reaches a maxima, the amount of air leaving exceeds the amount of air entering and the chamber depressurizes. When the pressure reaches a minima, the incoming air again begins blocking the out flow and the pressure in the chamber rises.

What makes it work is that the incoming air blocks the outgoing air and vice versa.

Using an isolation transformer or telecom "loading coil", you can wire the primaries to the secondaries so that forward power flow through the primary causes backward power flow through the secondary.



The sound of a whistle and the waterhammer in the water pipes is proof that an oscillator can be built entirely with passive components. Most oscillators have transistors, tubes, or a spark gap. All of these things act as gates which open and close. But a whistle needs no gate, and waterhammer works without any flip-flop valve. I think this can be done electrically as well, This may be the circuit to do it. Have to find an isolation transformer to test it out.
Life is short, smile more! :-D

Historically, it is when the elites begin to go after the creative people and forward thinkers that their empire fails due to lack of ingenuity.

Offline Nailer

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2008, 04:39:00 am »
I lost the link when my laptop fried and have not been able to find it. A man in the early 70's  built a system where a 400 Cubic inch V8 motor was getting 70-100 miles per gallon. 
He installed a heating system of some type into the gas tank which turned the gasoline into a vapor and then just the vapor was pumped into the engine through a all new intake system.  There was even a reporter who rode with the man in this car and a short news film on it. 

I bet the oil companies bought his invention and shelved it.
I am a realist that is slightly conservative yet I have some republican demeanor that can turn democrat when I feel the urge to flip independant.
 
The truth shall set you free, if not a 45ACP round will do the trick.. HEHE

Offline CalebJamesDeLisle

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 05:04:19 am »
High efficiency in the 70's
maybe Tom Ogle? US Patent # 4,177,779
Ogle changed his car so all the air intake was pulled through the gas tank, then he filtered out any gas droplets to leave a vapor. Only trouble is all the gas/air mix in the pipes, filter, and tank made it a bomb on wheels.

Before ogle was Charley Pogue. He had a better idea,
US Patent # 1,750,354 ~ Carburetor
USP # 1,997,497 ~ Carburetor
USP # 2,026,798 ~ Carburetor
the gasoline went to a carburetor like thing which cracked the gas molecules with a catalyst. As soon as he built them, the Oily companies put lead in the gas, coating any catalytic plates, making them useless. They also gave him a cushy job as a ChairMan at an oil filter company.

Their system is simple and YOU CAN BUILD A HIGH EFFICIENCY CAR!

Octane (gasoline) molecule = C8H18
Water = H2O

Carbon monoxide = CO
Methane gas = CH4
Molecular hydrogen = H2

C8H18+4(H2O) ---> 4(CO) + 4(CH4) + 5(H2)

This reaction turns 1 molecule of octane and 4 molecules of water into 4 molecules of carbon monoxide, 4 molecules of methane gas and 5 molecules of molecular hydrogen.

All of the outputs from the reaction have higher burn speeds than octane, faster burn means more of the fuel is burned in the cylinder and less in the exhaust system. The other advantage of thiese chemicals is that they won't condense when the piston compresses the fuel and air. Even if you vaporize gasoline, it will condense when the piston compresses the fuel/air.

How to get gas to do this?

You can burn it without giving it enough oxygen, then spray water into the rich flame. Experimentation could be done with a spare oil burner, but watch out for the 10,000 volt starter spark! If this is done inside of a chamber with an output hole, you can light the mix coming from the hole, and adjust the water until the flame is blue like a gas stove and as big as possible.

You could also mix the gas and h2o in a small chamber with no air, and push an electric spark across the mix, this would probably work too.

I heard a story about an 80's ford with a failing fuel pump. This was when EFI was first invented, and they had 2 fuel pumps so the gasoline in the high pressure loop was NOT dumped back into the tank. When the guy used the front fuel tank the engine got 80MPG. This was attributed to the fuel pump heating the gasoline in the loop until it was so hot that it flash vaporized in the intake manifold. I would not recommend having about 1 quart of gasoline in your lines and filter which is ready to flash vaporize if the line breaks. NWO will not have to work hard to silence you then  :o

Good luck, keep tinkering.
Life is short, smile more! :-D

Historically, it is when the elites begin to go after the creative people and forward thinkers that their empire fails due to lack of ingenuity.

Offline gm76

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 10:39:13 am »
Hydrogen fusion? I have a feeling the key to unlocking its potential will be found to have been there all along and its principles and processes so simple. My concept for Hydrogen Fusion is a relatively simple underwater water burning process; Taking advantage of the compression of water weight at least a quarter mile under the surface of the ocean; a housing is lowered filled with some specialized components. Lines provide a flow of fresh water down into the reaction chamber and for steam to return along with a few amps of DC current for hydrolysis (osmosis) of fresh water pumped down. The hydrolysis separates the Hydrogen and oxygen molecules. The hydrogen and oxygen are then ignited and burned in the gas phase, maybe even to stay burning by itself in a bluish/white-hot fireball, so hot it converts freshwater being forced into it into hydrogen gas and pure oxygen - a chain reaction only as long as pure water is fed into it. Any problems with anything the salt water would stop the ongoing pure H2O separation and burning process. No sealed dome required here, just coils surrounding the fireball, much like an old steam engine. The returning steam powers turbines on shore - clean and green. The compression factor of 1/4 mile of water weight would be about like placing Hoover Dam on top of the reaction for a weight and should exponentiate a bluish/white hot fireball of burning hydrogen and oxygen gas. A sort of Hydrogen Fusion process with a sustainable chain reaction potential where the flame is so hot that pure water touching it gets converted into Hydrogen gas and pure oxygen and burned. Could be fed peroxide too with an extra oxygen molecule. Take a little engineering to set up, but food for thought, would have to determine if it took oxygen out of the ocean water and environmental effects. How about a car that runs on purified water by using a little DC to convert it into Hydrogen gas and pure Oxygen then burning it in a standard piston engine format?! I have an electromagnetic engine idea too which should go and go... More on the website: http://www.holyhell.org/

CaliforniaAaron2

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 04:32:36 pm »
Saw a guy do this with a truck, ran only on the Hydrogen, can't find the clip though.

http://youtu.be/gxBqnF79fx0

Also, woodgas ...

http://youtu.be/kG8iR5DRLpw

Alternative Energy FTW!

Offline gm76

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2011, 10:36:43 pm »
Saw a guy do this with a truck, ran only on the Hydrogen, can't find the clip though.

http://youtu.be/gxBqnF79fx0

Also, woodgas ...

http://youtu.be/kG8iR5DRLpw

Alternative Energy FTW!
Why not use the vehicle's fuel tank for purified water, then have a conversion chamber where H2O and DC+/- current mix , separating water into Hydrogen Gas and pure Oxygen in just the right combination for burning. No fossil fuels at all. Uses battery pack and recharges as it runs? Just separates it and burns it in the gas phase for fuel...  Burns water for fuel?

Offline Letsbereal

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2011, 10:52:46 pm »
Bump for later also
->>>|:-) THE CITY INDIANS (-:|<<<-

Offline maximumbrainpower

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Re: Reconstructing the water car
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2011, 12:27:30 pm »
Quote
Saw a guy do this with a truck, ran only on the Hydrogen, can't find the clip though.
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(*Bleep!*) the clip, dude!
Can you find the guy!