Author Topic: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City  (Read 20547 times)

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Offline Amishism

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Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« on: February 29, 2008, 05:43:32 pm »
The Oklahoma City Bombing


On April 19, 1995, 9:02 AM, a set of explosions carved out crater in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, killing 168 people. In response then President Bill Clinton signed into law anti-terror legislation covering all of the United States giving more police powers.

According to the official story, the damage was caused by a 5000-pound fertilizer and fuel oil bomb packed into the back of a rented Ryder truck parked on the street in front of the building.

However there are a number of fatal problems with this explanation.



Oklahoma City Bombing RARE footage - Hufschmid
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NWwrEEP8EBk

More than one bomb at Oklahoma City
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HKsQKc2eP-8

Three Bombs at OKC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BZHDiZR_kA


General Ben Partin expert witness
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4224779103128976372

Gen. Partin points out it is possible there was no Ryder truck at all, and no crater from a Ryder truck explosion. The building blew out from the inside, with bombs in the building and unexploded bombs reported to have been found. Later the Jogging CIA agent finds a real axl from a ryder truck.

Quote from: Ben Partin
It is impossible that the destruction to the building could have resulted from such a bomb alone.

To cause the damage pattern that occurred to the Murrah Building, there would have to have been demolition charges at several supporting column bases, at locations not accessible from the street, to supplement the truck bomb damage. Indeed, a careful examination of photographs showing the collapsed column bases reveals a failure mode produced by demolition charges and not by a blast from the truck bomb…

Blast through air is a very inefficient energy coupling mechanism against heavily reinforced concrete beams and columns…

By contrast, heavily reinforced concrete structures can be destroyed effectively through detonation of explosives in contact with the reinforced concrete beams and columns… The Murrah Federal Building was not destroyed by one sole truck bomb. The major factor in its destruction appears to have been detonation of explosives carefully placed at four critical junctures on supporting columns within the building. The only possible reinforced concrete structural failure solely attributable to the truck bomb was the stripping out of the ceilings of the first and second floors in the ‘pit’ area behind columns B4 and By. Even this may have been caused by a demolition charge at column B3. — Benton K. Partin, Bomb Damage Analysis Of Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, July 30, 1995, (emphasis supplied).

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms had offices in the Murrah Building. On the day the Murrah building was bombed, none of the ATF agents came to work that morning. The ATF agents, who had children in the day-care center, did not drop their children off that day. There were no ATF agents or their children on the casualty list of the Oklahoma City bombing. — Freedom Network News, June/July 1996, pp. 5, 6.

Mark Boswell interviewed 28 year CIA veteran James Black and assistant Ron Jackson regarding sworn affidavits now in their possession, sworn by two Justice Department officials which state that they were part of a ‘Committee of 10’ who planned the Oklahoma bombing. — Martin O. de Brook, Cherith Chronicle, May-July, 1995, page 5.

Chandra Levy knew too much

The reputed purpose of Chandra was to infiltrate. To use her womanly wiles to find out things. She reportedly had a boyfriend in the FBI. She became an intern in THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS, the winter and spring leading up to the date set originally, May 16, 2001, for the execution of Timothy McVeigh, described by the pressfakers as "the lone bomber".
www.skolnicksreport.com/claffair.html

For those claiming McVeigh was a religious fundamentalist having ties to the Branch Davidians in Waco, Timothy McVeigh was Roman Catholic, David Koresh and the Davidians were a Sabbatarian.

TIME: Are you religious?
MCVEIGH: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.

Offline Amishism

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2008, 05:49:14 pm »
Bill Hughes reports in The Secret Terrorist:
There were liberty-restricting measures in Congress just prior to the Oklahoma City bombing that were stalled. Right after the bombing they were immediately passed.

The Omnibus Counter Terrorism Act of 1995 was on a slow track in Congress and the subject of a lively debate as to whether it would violate some fundamental civil liberties, including the right to confront one’s accuser.

Now, after the Oklahoma City bombing, there are few surer legislative bets in Washington. Democrats and Republicans issued news releases Thursday calling for the bill’s quick passage. — Terror in the Heartland: Terrorism Bill Moves Very Fast, Orlando Sentinel, April 21st, 1995 (emphasis supplied).

 

President Clinton prodded Congress on Friday to move swiftly on his anti-terrorism legislation and avoid political ‘endless quibbling’ over details. ‘We must not doddle or delay. Congress must act, and act promptly.’ His 1.25 billion anti-terrorism package would expand law enforcement’s investigative and enforcement powers and toughen penalties for certain crimes. Republicans have reacted favorably to the proposals Clinton put forward on Wednesday, one week after the Oklahoma City bombing. — Clinton Urges Swift Action on Anti-terrorism Legislation, Orlando Sentinel, April 29th, 1995.

The purpose of the Oklahoma City bombing was to get Congress to pass the anti-terrorism bill without debate. If a debate had taken place, the issues of constitutional liberties and the creation of a police state would have been raised. The Jesuits in Congress prefer that the police state be implemented without the public noticing by creating a climate of national hysteria using a staged terrorist attack. The bill sailed through with no debate or discussion.

One of the laws considered for passage after the Oklahoma City bombing was the gross destruction of the First Amendment advocated in Charles Schumer’s bill, HR 2580. In this bill, a five-year prison sentence would be given for publicly engaging in unseemly speculation and publishing or transmitting by wire or electronic means baseless conspiracy theories regarding the federal government of the United States.

We have seen that in the aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing, several liberty-restricting laws were passed by Congress very quickly. The bombing created a climate of fear in America. In this setting, laws passed with few dissenting voices. In the midst of the hysteria, the unconstitutional laws could be quickly passed. The people want comfort and security, and they did not object to the passing of these laws. These laws seriously eroded the constitutional liberties that have been the cornerstone of American prosperity for over 200 years. It is amazing how quickly a normally slow and cumbersome Congress can act when the agenda is all set.

A conditioning program got well under way after the Oklahoma City bombing. How many freedoms would Americans give away in order to feel safe? Do we not see that the powers running our government want to destroy the Constitution?

People do not realize that governmental power is extremely dangerous. Down through history, peoples’ worst enemy has been their own government. When constitutional freedoms are gone, there is nothing to restrict government from doing anything it wants, and deadly governmental persecution is the result.

Offline sid

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2008, 06:20:12 pm »
And no one ever addresses that Soldier of Fortune picture, now do they?

Offline Amishism

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2008, 06:26:41 pm »
What Soldier of Fortune pic?









Gov. Brad Henry of Oklahoma, left, with Bill Clinton, Dick Cheney and Frank Hill of the Oklahoma City National Memorial Foundation.


Mayor Cornett joins Vice President Dick Cheney and
members of Oklahoma's congressional delegation on
April 19, 2007 in observing a moment of silence in
memory of Murrah Building bombing victims.
(White House photo)

Offline goldpiece

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2008, 07:34:59 pm »
I was reading one of Timothy McVeigh's letters today, in which he states that he bombed the Murrah Federal Building as a "retaliatory strike" against the command and control center of the federal government agencies responsible for multiple abusive government raids, including Waco Texas, and because the responsible government officials got away without punishment, while the victims were killed or jailed.

http://independence.net/okc/mcveighletterfox.htm

My question is, was the strike successful?  Who was killed in the explosion?  I've been searching all day and have not found a list of those killed, preferably with job titles.  Were any of those killed also involved in the Ruby Ridge and Waco raids?

jimwill

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2008, 08:01:01 pm »
Here is a link to the investigations by reporter JD Cash (who is now dead)
just in case you want more reading! :D

http://www.mccurtain.com/okcarchives.shtml

Offline Kregener

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2008, 08:39:19 pm »
30 Crucial OKC Bombing Questions Remain Unanswered

1.   If the bombing of the Alfred E. Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City was a terrorist reprisal for the Federal massacre of the Branch Davidians at Waco, why were no BATF or FBI agents injured? Why was EVERY BADGE-CARRYING FEDERAL AGENT absent from work at nine o'clock on a weekday morning, their offices staffed only with civilian clerical workers?
 
2.   When the word first got out that no Federal agents had been present in the building, the BATF produced its Resident Agent Alex McCauley who told a long story about his own heroism and that of a fellow ATF man who allegedly fell three floors in an elevator, walked away from it, and then helped rescue others trapped by the bomb. This was quickly exposed as a fabrication in an angry interview by building maintenance supervisor Duane James, who described McCauley's story as "pure fantasy". James examined the elevator in question and also the central control panel and pointed out a number of technical and logical reasons why the miraculous elevator incident simply couldn't have happened in the way claimed. The McCauley account was quietly retracted and flushed down the memory hole by the ATF, with the help of the media. They now admit that McCauley was nowhere near the building when the bomb went off, although they refuse to discuss his exact whereabouts or the whereabouts of any other ATF agent at the time of the explosion. Will BATF Agent Alex McCauley be disciplined for telling a self-serving lie which falsely made himself out to be a hero? If that was not the purpose, why did he make this palpably false public statement?
 
3.   Why was U.S. Judge Wayne Alley, whose office was located in the Federal building, warned several weeks in advance in a Justice Department memo to be prepared for an unnamed "terrorist act" directed against the Federal building?
 
4.   Judge Alley made the above admission to the Portland Oregonian immediately after the bombing. He has since refused to repeat it or allow himself to be interviewed again. Why?
 
5.   Why did Ken Stern fax warnings to Federal judges and officials, legislators, and prosecutors warning of a possible attack on a government building of installation on the second anniversary of Waco on April 10th, 1995, nine days before the OKC bombing?
 
6.   "Norma," a witness who worked in an office building just down the street from the Federal building, told reporter Sherry Koonce what she saw prior to the explosion: "The day was fine, everything was normal when I arrived for work at about 7:45 a.m. There was some talk about the bomb squad among the employees at our office. We wondered what it was doing in our parking lot. Around nine I heard and felt a huge explosion. Then someone said it had to be a bomb, and we all knew. I remembered the bomb squad in our parking lot and knew what had happened." "Norma" has since quit her job, gone into hiding and refused to speak again to any reporters or investigators. So have a number of other people who saw the heavily armed and equipped bomb squad in the area up to three hours before the blast. Why?
 
7.   Why did all mention of the facts outlined in questions 1 thru 6 disappeared from the news media after the first week of coverage of the bombing? Why has the media consistently suppressed and refused to report any information or evidence which indicates that, at the very least and regardless of who was responsible, there was Federal foreknowledge that the bombing would take place?
 
8.   By definition, a terrorist must take credit for his violence, or else there is no compelling reason to commit a crime. The specific purpose of terrorism is to gain a political end through the credible threat to commit future acts of violence. No one has claimed credit for the Oklahoma City bombing. Militia and right-wing groups, the alleged masterminds and presumed beneficiaries, have been particularly vehement in denouncing the explosion and in many cases have cooperated directly with Federal agencies to absolve themselves of any involvement. The only statement of alleged political motive comes from the very government which was attacked. Why is this?
 
9.   Did the Alfred Murrah building warehouse documents relating to the attack on the Branch Davidians at Waco? If so, what happened to those documents? Were they destroyed? If so, were any copies kept elsewhere? If not, why not?
 
10.   Will the missing papers, if any, affect former Attorney General Ramsey Clark's lawsuit against the ATF and FBI on behalf of the Branch Davidian survivors?
 
11.   Why did the Director of the University of Oklahoma's Geological Survey, Dr. Charles Mankin, tell the media that according to two different seismographic records there were TWO blasts, the second approximately eight seconds after the first?
 
12.   The news media initially reported that there were two explosions, based on eyewitness testimony. Why did this version of events disappear from print and the air waves within twenty-four hours?
 
13.   According to the prosecution, McVeigh used an ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate and Fuel Oil) bomb to destroy the Alfred P. Murrah federal building. McGyver makes it look real easy on TV. But according to Department of the Army and Air Force Technical Manual No. 9-1910, entitled Military Explosives, ANFO requires a greater than 99% purity of ammonium nitrate, as well as a specific dryness, before it can be mixed with diesel fuel to create an explosive substance. The manual further spells out that even under ideal conditions (not often reached even by experts) 4,800 pounds of ANFO explosive would create a much smaller crater than the one left in front of the Murrah building, and its shock wave could not possibly wield the force necessary to compromise the building's concrete support structure. The FBI claims that the ANFO charge was made from 50 bags of fertilizer. Ammonium nitrate fertilizers comes in much weaker concentrations than the 99%-plus required for explosives. Creating concentrated amounts of ammonium nitrate is quite complex, and would require many bags of fertilizer. In short, according to the government's own textbook, the Oklahoma City bombing COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE WAY THE FBI SAYS IT HAPPENED. IT IS A PHYSICAL, CHEMICAL, AND THERMODYNAMIC IMPOSSIBILITY. Why is the FBI lying?
 
14.   Retired Air Force Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, former commander of the Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory, a 25-year expert in the design and development of bombs, urged Senators and Congressmen to delay the destruction of the Murrah building site. Partin stated in a news release, "When I first saw the picture of the truck bomb's asymmetrical damage to the Federal building in Oklahoma, my immediate reaction was that the pattern of damage would have been technically impossible without supplementary demolition charges at some of the reinforced concrete bases inside the building, a standard demolition technique." Partin further explained that "reinforced concrete targets in large buildings are hard targets to blast. I know of no way possible to reproduce the apparent building damage through simply a truck bomb effort." General Partin's request to have the bomb site preserved in order to examine the possibility of a second explosion was ignored by the government. And in fact, when the request was made by General Partin, the government moved up the demolition by two weeks! Why?
 
15.   General Partin's press release, quoted above, was reprinted in the John Birch Society magazine New American. Based on this the news media launched an egregious and bogus smear campaign against General Benton K. Partin, claiming falsely that he was a member of the John Birch Society and therefore a "right-wing extremist". [General Partin's report has been widely circulated and reproduced, including an electronic version here on ParaScope.] General Partin has been forced repeatedly to threaten lawsuits in order to obtain grudging and deliberately downplayed retractions and corrections of this allegation. His alleged JBS membership still appears in print and broadcast media today as fact, even though the media are by now perfectly well aware that the allegation is false. Why are the news media telling a deliberate lie in order to discredit a highly respected expert who questions the official government version of Oklahoma City?
 
16.   There have been repeated studies done by a variety of accredited explosives experts and professional demolition contractors, such as former FBI agent Ted Gunderson. All of these have stated their professional opinion that the destruction of the Murrah building could only have been accomplished with top-grade military explosives, detonators, and careful placement of multiple charges. Why have the media ignored these expert opinions? Why, indeed, have the media engaged in a concerted campaign to abuse, vilify, discredit and marginalize as a "crank" or a "right-wing extremist" any explosives expert or engineer who questions the official FBI version of the bomb's construction and explosive power?
 
17.   There is not a single piece of concrete evidence to connect either Timothy McVeigh or Terry Nichols to any militia or right-wing group. Why has the news media refused to acknowledge this fact and continued to spread the patently false assertion that McVeigh was a member of a militia group?
 
18.   Terry Nichols has been married twice, once to a Mexican woman and once to a Filipina. Obviously, a man who marries women of color not once but twice and has children with them can hardly be called a racist. Why has this fact, which clearly precludes any racist or neo-Nazi involvement in the bombing of the kind implied by the media, not been given any significant exposure at all? And why has the media ignored connections between the Oklahoma City bombing and the very real, very racist Elohim City compound in Arkansas, not to mention Andreas Strassmeir, grandson of one of the founders of the Nazi party in Germany?
 
19.   Having allegedly just committed a coldly calculated, carefully and meticulously planned mass murder, why did Timothy McVeigh then suddenly turn into a Clouseau-like klutz and do everything but send up a flare to draw attention to himself? Why did he go speeding out of the state at almost 100 mph in a yellow car with no license plate, virtually guaranteeing that he would be stopped?
 
20.   Timothy McVeigh is a highly trained combat NCO who won a Bronze Star for courage under fire in the Gulf. Having been stopped by a state trooper, being armed with a pistol, and knowing that he now faced either execution or imprisonment for the rest of his natural life, why did McVeigh make no move at all to defend himself or escape, instead surrendering like a little lamb?
 
21.   FBI agents are said to have tracked down McVeigh's truck rental agency by finding a vehicle identification number (VIN) on the truck's rear axle. This axle was found either in the bomb crater, according to the mayor of Oklahoma City's initial press statement, or three blocks away according to the later FBI version. Which statement is true?
 
22.   There is another problem to the Ryder truck tale. No rear axle on any vehicle manufactured in America is imprinted with a VIN, even after recent legislation forcing manufacturers to place multiple VINS on the engine, firewall, and frame to discourage chop shops. When queried, a spokesman for Ryder told reporters than it does not imprint additional VINS on its trucks. The only conceivable number available on a rear axle is a part number, but a part number couldn't lead to the identification of a specific vehicle. We have here another case where the FBI version of events simply COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED in the way the Bureau claims it happened. Where did the VIN story come from? Why has it been created and circulated by the media?
 
23.   Did McVeigh use fake I.D. or his real I.D. to rent the truck? The FBI has relayed both stories as being true.
 
24.   The FBI detained and interrogated Timothy McVeigh's young sister Jennifer and Terry Nichols' twelve year-old son. They announced in the media that both of them were suspects and that Jennifer McVeigh was facing indictment and the death penalty. These charges later vanished, and both young people were released. While undergoing harsh FBI interrogation, Jennifer McVeigh was exposed to projections of shocking, graphic images of bombing victims. What is the story here?
 
25.   Who is John Doe Number Two? Does he exist at all? The FBI first conducted a nationwide manhunt for JD-2 over a period of several weeks. Then they claimed that a U.S. Army soldier on leave, whose published photographs bear no resemblance whatsoever to the photofits, was JD-2. Then they claimed for some months that JD-2 does not exist, and that all the witnesses who saw him were mistaken. Now they are hedging again and say they have an "open mind" about whether John Doe Number Two exists. What's the deal?
 
26.   In January of 1996, National Public Radio broadcast a half-hour special containing interviews with half a dozen witnesses who personally saw John Doe Number Two in the Ryder truck with Timothy McVeigh on the morning of the bombing. These witnesses all had one thing in common; other than a cursory preliminary interview by the FBI they had up until that time been approached by neither the prosecution nor the defense to appear as witnesses at the trial. Why not? Will any witnesses who saw John Doe Number Two be called to testify?
 
27.   In the summer of 1995 a mysterious American named Daniel Spiegelman was arrested in the Netherlands for trafficking in stolen diamonds and antiques. In July of 1995 the Janet Reno Justice Department quietly applied for Spiegelman's extradition to the United States IN CONNECTION WITH THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING. This was accompanied by representations at the highest level demanding that the Netherlands courts hear the case in camera and that the proceedings be kept completely secret. Through his attorney Spiegelman fought extradition, a Dutch judge refused to impose secrecy on the hearing, the media got hold of it, and Janet Reno allegedly withdrew the extradition request, whereupon the entire bizarre episode vanished from public view. No more media blackout in the OKC case has been more pervasive than the blackout imposed over the name of Daniel Spiegelman; it is as if he has stepped off the face of the planet. Who is Daniel Spiegelman? What connection does he have with Oklahoma City? Is he John Doe Number Two? Does he know who John Doe Number Two is?
 
28.   FBI informant and star witness Michael Fortier, who admits to trading his testimony for lenient sentencing on gun charges himself, claims that he and Timothy McVeigh scouted out the Murrah building several weeks in advance looking for the BATF offices therein. If that is true, why did Timothy McVeigh stop the Ryder truck at a gas station on the morning of the bombing and ask directions to the building? And why did he park the truck on the side of the building the farthest away from the BATF offices, when there was an available parking lot which would have placed the truck bomb almost directly under the seventh-floor windows of the BATF?
 
29.   Why was the reaction of the Clinton administration, blaming right-wing radio talk shows for the incident and demanding the most draconian police state legislation ever proposed in the United States, so swift and obviously organized? The air of orchestration about the entire government response did not escape notice even at the time, and was commented on by a number of observers across the political spectrum. A blizzard of OKC-inspired "domestic terrorism" bills were rushed into Congress in a matter of days, some of them pre-written and already printed up BEFORE THE BOMBING. These proposed laws cover everything from banning virtually all privately owned firearms to unlimited and court-admissible Federal wiretaps to censorship of the Internet to the suspension of habeas corpus in "terrorism" cases to the grotesque destruction of the First Amendment advocated in Charles Schumer's bill H.R. 2580, which imposes a five-year prison sentence for publicly engaging in "unseemly speculation" and publishing or transmitting by wire or electronic means "baseless conspiracy theories regarding the Federal government of the United States". Who decides what is a "baseless conspiracy theory'? Why, the very same government, of course. How was a normally cumbersome, inefficient, and glacially slow legislative branch able to move so quickly, so comprehensively, and so efficiently in introducing these laws which will strip Americans of what remaining freedoms they have?
 
30.   Why did it take so unconscionably long for the trial of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols to begin?

Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than going to a hospital makes you a doctor.

Stop thinking in terms of left and right and start thinking in terms of right and wrong

Offline Kregener

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Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than going to a hospital makes you a doctor.

Stop thinking in terms of left and right and start thinking in terms of right and wrong

Offline White Rose Sophie

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2008, 10:12:32 pm »
The Oklahoma City Bombing And The Politics Of Terror

Excellent thread and points, Amish/Kregener.  I had done some cursory studying of OKC, but this lays so many of the discrepencies out in easily understood facets. 
Thanks.   ;)

Aqua Teen Hunger Force

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2008, 03:17:58 am »
What Soldier of Fortune pic?









Gov. Brad Henry of Oklahoma, left, with Bill Clinton, Dick Cheney and Frank Hill of the Oklahoma City National Memorial Foundation.


Mayor Cornett joins Vice President Dick Cheney and
members of Oklahoma's congressional delegation on
April 19, 2007 in observing a moment of silence in
memory of Murrah Building bombing victims.
(White House photo)

What the hell is Dick-head Cheney doing in that picture with Billy Clinton???I was under the impression that this guy named Al Gore was the V.P. during Clintons Administration, again I ask WHAT IS DICK CHENEY DOING THERE?

Offline goldpiece

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2008, 09:35:14 pm »
30 Crucial OKC Bombing Questions Remain Unanswered

1.   If the bombing of the Alfred E. Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City was a terrorist reprisal for the Federal massacre of the Branch Davidians at Waco, why were no BATF or FBI agents injured? Why was EVERY BADGE-CARRYING FEDERAL AGENT absent from work at nine o'clock on a weekday morning, their offices staffed only with civilian clerical workers?
 
2.   When the word first got out that no Federal agents had been present in the building...

Do you have some references that state that no federal agents were present in the building?

I still have not found a list of those that died or were injured in the bombing either.  Happen to have that too?

Offline Kregener

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Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than going to a hospital makes you a doctor.

Stop thinking in terms of left and right and start thinking in terms of right and wrong

Offline goldpiece

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2008, 08:31:05 pm »
Well according to this, federal agents were killed, but mostly DEA and Secret Service.  Strangely, no FBI or BATF are listed, which were probably McVeigh's prime targets if the attack was in retaliation for Ruby Ridge and Waco:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001-06-11-mcveigh-victims.htm

Another article from an interview with a wife of one of the Secret Service agents killed:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/okc/stories/overview.html

A good quote from this one:

"McVeigh said America needed to be taught a lesson because of the government's actions during the 1993 standoff with the Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas, and the 1992 siege of white separatist Randy Weaver's cabin at Ruby Ridge, Idaho."

Offline goldpiece

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2008, 11:23:29 pm »
13 federal agents killed, according to the memorial here. So, why was McVeigh only charged with 8 federal counts of first degree murder?  I guess the 4 DOD special agents don't count?  But even if you subtract the DOD 4, that still leaves 9 federal agents killed and then there's the Williams guy originally claimed to have been a food salesman, but in the last few years referred to by his family as a "Special Agent."

Either way, what is the deal with there being no FBI or BATF killed?  The explosion went off at 9:01 am, is it possible that the FBI and BATF don't show up to work until 9:30?  Surely McVeigh would have ensured that his prime targets were in the building at the time he chose to bomb it?


Cynthia Lynn (Campbell) Brown, 26, worked as a special agent for the Secret Service on the ninth floor of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.


Secret Service agent Donald Ray Leonard. During his 20 years with the Secret Service, Leonard was responsible for protecting seven U.S. presidents and various political candidates and dignitaries.


Mickey Maroney, 50, a Secret Service agent, was born in Wichita Falls, Texas. He had spent nearly half his life - 24 years - working for the government. Maroney was at work when the blast hit.


Alan G. Whicher left the White House for the supposedly quieter confines of Oklahoma, where he was assistant special agent in charge of the Secret Service's field office. He oversaw Clinton's security detail as assistant to the special agent in charge of the presidential protection division.


Kenneth Glenn McCullough, 36, was an agent for the Drug Enforcement Agency for five years, continuing a life of service to his country that began with his tenure as a member of the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas. He served in the Army from 1980-86, then worked for the Department of Defense from 1986 until he went to work for the Drug Enforcement Administration.


He was one of the first special agents assigned to the U.S. Customs Service Oklahoma City office seven years ago. Paul Douglas Ice, 42, of Midwest City was a senior special agent in the U.S. Customs Service office.


After serving as a U.S. Customs agent along the Mexican border between Eagle Pass and Del Rio, Texas, Senior Special Agent Claude Medearis moved to the Oklahoma City office in 1992. Medearis, of Norman, recently was promoted to senior special agent in charge of the Oklahoma City office.


He had spent nearly half of his 43 years in government service work. Employed by the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Paul Broxterman was working as a criminal investigator through the inspector general's office when the April 19 bombing occurred. Broxterman served in the Navy from 1971 to 1977 and spent part of that time in Vietnam as a radio man on the USS Enterprise. He later worked as a tax examiner for the Internal Revenue Service, as a criminal investigator for the Bureau of Indian Affairs and as a special agent for the U.S. Department of Agriculture.


John Albert "Buddy" Youngblood, had been working in the federal building since March 1 as a special agent for the Office of Motor Carriers in the Federal Highway Administration.  Before that he was a state policeman, and also had served as a reserve police officer in several locales, most recently for the Yukon and El Reno police departments and the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Department.


Harley Richard Cottingham. A special agent with the Department of Defense Investigative Service, Cottingham served in the U.S. Navy from 1969-1973. He continued his career in government service in 1980 when he joined the Veterans Administration as a Veterans Outreach Counselor. Cottingham, 46, joined the Defensive Investigative Service in 1985 and served in the Omaha and Colorado Springs, Colo., field offices before being assigned to Oklahoma City in 1991.


Peter L. DeMaster. DeMaster, 44, was a special agent in the Oklahoma City Investigative Field Office of the Department of Defense Investigative Service. DeMaster came to Oklahoma as an AWACS instructor at Tinker Air Force Base. He had worked for the Department of Defense for the past 11 years.


Larry L. Turner. A special agent with the Department of Defense Investigative Services.  A former Oklahoma state trooper,  joined the Defense Investigative Services as Special Agent in 1986.


Robert Westberry, 57, was only two years away from retiring as the special agent in charge at the Department of Defense and Investigative Services. Westberry was a highway patrolman in Florida before going into the Naval Investigative Service.

And here is a bizarre one.  At the memorial site, this was posted:


Scott Williams, 24, of Tuttle would have been a new father in about two months. His wife, Nikki Williams, is expecting their first child, a girl they already had decided to name Kylie."He was a wonderful person," said his aunt, Linda Lekawski. Williams, a salesman for William E. Davis and Sons Food Inc., was making a delivery to the child-care center at the federal building.

But more recently in 2005, flowers were left describing him as "Special Agent;"

A photograph and pin are attached to these flowers. The pin reads "Beloved Scott Our Special Agent." These flowers were dedicated to Scott Williams during the Tenth Anniversary, April 19, 2005. Scott Williams died on the second floor of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. http://www.oklahomacitynationalmemorial.org/virtualarchive/exhibit2/e20333b.htm

Also, it's worth noting, that if no FBI or BATF agents were killed in this attack, then they still have not really paid for their crimes at Ruby Ridge, Idaho and Waco, Texas, as McVeigh had intended.

Offline goldpiece

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2008, 12:05:16 am »
Also found an interesting study;

"Occupants of the Alfred P. Murrah Building experienced the highest number of injuries and deaths (Figure 3). Forty-five percent (163/361) of the building's occupants died, and 47% (168/361) were injured, yielding a combined fatal and nonfatal injury rate of 92% (331/361) ."

331 out of 361 in the building were either killed or injured.  Where was the FBI and BATF?  What time were they supposed to be reporting to work?  The Murrah Building was the FBI and BATF Regional Headquarters!


Offline goldpiece

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2008, 07:00:50 am »
Here's an  interesting document I found.  According to it, the FBI was not even a tenant of the building, which would explain why no FBI agents were killed.  But the BATF was in the building so, it's still strange none of them were killed unless they were on the opposite side of the building as the blast.  Is there a tenant layout anywhere?

http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/people/faculty/pollalis/cases/Oklahoma-Sept2006-public.pdf

Something kind of strange is on the last page, it says that Congress appropriated $40 million to replace the building only 3 months after it was blown up - that was quick!

Offline goldpiece

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2008, 07:27:23 am »
Well, I finally found the answer as to why no FBI or BATF agents were killed in the Oklahoma Bombing:

1) FBI did not have offices there.
2) The BATF only had 20 employees there and they were on the very top floor - furthest from the blast.

Quote
REVENGE There were no less than 17 Federal agencies with offices in the nine-story Murrah building, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, several of whose Oklahoma City agents were involved in the initial raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco on Feb. 28, 1993, when four agents were killed. Similarly, the bombers may have acted on the mistaken impression that the F.B.I. had offices in the building. The agent in charge of the Oklahoma City office, Bob Ricks, was probably the most visible F.B.I. official in Waco, as he frequently conducted the daily televised news briefing there. His office is elsewhere in Oklahoma City.

But the Waco revenge theory, however compelling, does not necessarily answer the specific question of the location. There were many A.T.F. and F.B.I. agents from other cities involved in Waco. Moreover, the A.T.F. offices here are on the top floor, the farthest away from a ground-level bomb, while there are many other buildings in the country where A.T.F. offices could be more readily hit. There were 20 A.T.F. employees assigned to the Murrah building; none were killed.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CEFD91F3DF935A15757C0A963958260

So, if McVeigh intended to retaliate against the FBI and BATF specifically for Waco, he not only missed his targets, but picked the wrong building.

Offline White Rose Sophie

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2008, 01:26:45 pm »
Well, I finally found the answer as to why no FBI or BATF agents were killed in the Oklahoma Bombing:

1) FBI did not have offices there.
2) The BATF only had 20 employees there and they were on the very top floor - furthest from the blast.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CEFD91F3DF935A15757C0A963958260

So, if McVeigh intended to retaliate against the FBI and BATF specifically for Waco, he not only missed his targets, but picked the wrong building.

Amazingly - you'd have thought he would have done a pit of research......eh?   ;)

worcesteradam

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Re: Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2013, 08:40:51 am »
McVeigh sucks