Author Topic: Torture: Only Good For False Confessions  (Read 84460 times)

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Offline SuzakaDusk

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Torture: Only Good For False Confessions
« on: February 28, 2008, 12:45:09 pm »
http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=5728

Quote
Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib

Blacklisted News
Source: Wired
February 28, 2008

 
 
 
As an expert witness in the defense of an Abu Ghraib guard who was court-martialed, psychologist Philip Zimbardo had access to many of the images of abuse that were taken by the guards themselves. For a presentation at the TED conference in Monterey, California, Zimbardo assembled some of these pictures into a short video. Wired.comobtained the video from Zimbardo’s talk, and is publishing some of the stills from that video here. Many of the images are explicit and gruesome, depicting nudity, degradation, simulated sex acts and guards posing with decaying corpses. Viewer discretion is advised.

View photos
http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=5728
Words can not describe how I feel, I am exiled in the UK away from my husband and babies and I so much love and miss them, I am heartbroken about my ordeal. I am so upset and overwhelmed by it all. I am not taking anything for my depression. I'm trying to hang in there, but it is hard.

Offline lord edward coke

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Offline adissenter2

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Re: Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib (Viewer discretion is advised)
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 01:57:46 pm »
all brought to you the ignorance of great hunters like these



ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! Molon Labe! Come and take them!

Offline DJ BALL

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Re: Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib (Viewer discretion is advised)
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2008, 02:01:43 pm »
f**king Stephen Harper has now allowed these shit heads to operate in my country.
Racist hillbilly f**ks gonna get handled if they try and pull this shit in Canada.
"Ann Coulter is a singularly disgusting person....when i met her i was stunned.. i felt a presence of evil..i thought i was seeing a concentration camp victim/slash/ ring wraith..she could barley walk..she was toddling on her legs with her arms out like a ghoul.." ALEX JONES

Offline φυδγε

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Re: Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib (Viewer discretion is advised)
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 02:08:13 pm »
Those pictures are sick and the interrogators are perverts.   ???


Offline Dig

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Re: Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib (Viewer discretion is advised)
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 02:42:40 pm »
This is the plan!

This is exactly what they are training them to do, but in America!

Zoom out and see the big picture.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline hyperqube

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Re: Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib (Viewer discretion is advised)
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 03:27:26 pm »
me neither

try this

http://tinyurl.com/32vqub

Offline Dig

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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline jimd3100

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Re: Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib (Viewer discretion is advised)
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2008, 05:40:11 pm »
This is the plan!

This is exactly what they are training them to do, but in America!

Zoom out and see the big picture.

Yup, thats right. Actually I've seen these photos before but not all the ones in this video..

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/02/ted_zimbardo

What more proof does one need to know that we are not the "good guys" in this phony war? There are no good guys, in the "war on terror".

But it's OK you don't need to feel bad. Nick Berg was sacrificed to show that "they" are worse than us. These photos made the news in March 2004. Nick Berg was beheaded in May. His was, what started the whole beheading thing. Those Abu Gharaib pics are the reason he was beheaded. Sacrificed would be a more accurate term.

Who do you think did that to Nick?

Look at what this person is forced to wear by his captives.

http://www.streetcow.com/03-14-06_abu-ghraib_01.jpg

Look what Nick Berg is forced to wear by his captives.

http://physics911.net/images/bergcollage.jpg

Take a look at the chair Berg is sitting in.

http://physics911.net/images/bergcollage.jpg

Where do you think he was?

Look at the chair our great Representative in Iraq is sitting in (lower left)

http://wilsonsalmanac.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/abu_ghraib_new-721906.jpg

Looks like Nick Berg had the same captives that these prisoners did. He had to pay, for their crimes.
Beliefs Always Trump Truth and Perception Always Trumps Reality

Offline Dig

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Re: Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib (Viewer discretion is advised)
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2008, 05:49:45 pm »
Yup, thats right. Actually I've seen these photos before but not all the ones in this video..

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/02/ted_zimbardo

What more proof does one need to know that we are not the "good guys" in this phony war? There are no good guys, in the "war on terror".

But it's OK you don't need to feel bad. Nick Berg was sacrificed to show that "they" are worse than us. These photos made the news in March 2004. Nick Berg was beheaded in May. His was, what started the whole beheading thing. Those Abu Gharaib pics are the reason he was beheaded. Sacrificed would be a more accurate term.

Who do you think did that to Nick?

Look at what this person is forced to wear by his captives.

http://www.streetcow.com/03-14-06_abu-ghraib_01.jpg

Look what Nick Berg is forced to wear by his captives.

http://physics911.net/images/bergcollage.jpg

Take a look at the chair Berg is sitting in.

http://physics911.net/images/bergcollage.jpg

Where do you think he was?

Look at the chair our great Representative in Iraq is sitting in (lower left)

http://wilsonsalmanac.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/abu_ghraib_new-721906.jpg

Looks like Nick Berg had the same captives that these prisoners did. He had to pay, for their crimes.


jimd3100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please start a new topic on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline jimd3100

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Re: Digusting New Images from Abu Ghraib (Viewer discretion is advised)
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2008, 05:52:49 pm »
jimd3100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please start a new topic on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Done
Beliefs Always Trump Truth and Perception Always Trumps Reality

Offline NonCompliance

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Torture: Only Good For False Confessions
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2008, 08:01:56 pm »
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/29/bush-to-veto-anti-torture-bill-next-week

Bush to veto anti-torture bill next week.
Congress recently passed the Intelligence Authorization Act, which contained a provision creating a single interrogation standard for the U.S. government that bans the use of waterboarding. CQ reports that President Bush will veto the bill next week:

“The president’s expected to veto it next week,” said Emily Lawrimore, a spokeswoman for the White House. “We received it today.”

Although the exact date for the veto is unclear, the president likely will not act until after Tuesday’s primaries, since numerous lawmakers will not be on Capitol Hill then.

The Gavel has House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s (D-CA) statement urging Bush to sign the legislation.  7:00 pm | Comment (26)
“If death meant just leaving the stage long enough to change costume and come back as a new character...Would you slow down? Or speed up?”           -Chuck Palahniuk

Offline SuzakaDusk

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Bush to veto anti-torture bill next week ( No shocker there )
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2008, 02:31:14 am »
Bush to veto anti-torture bill next week.Congress recently passed the Intelligence Authorization Act, which contained a provision creating a single interrogation standard for the U.S. government that bans the use of waterboarding. CQ reports that President Bush will veto the bill next week:

“The president’s expected to veto it next week,” said Emily Lawrimore, a spokeswoman for the White House. “We received it today.”

Although the exact date for the veto is unclear, the president likely will not act until after Tuesday’s primaries, since numerous lawmakers will not be on Capitol Hill then.

The Gavel has House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s (D-CA) statement urging Bush to sign the legislation.  February 29, 2008 7:00 pm | Comment (28)

Filed under:
Posted by Satyam February 29, 2008 7:00 pm

Permalink | Comment (28)

 
28 Comments »

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Bush stands for freedom.
The freedom to torture you until you die.
And the freedom to bomb the living hell out of your country.

Comment by Alejandro — February 29, 2008 @ 7:04 pm




If this veto is not a war crime, then I don’t know . . .

Comment by Domino — February 29, 2008 @ 7:04 pm




War Criminal President is torturing our nation…to death.

Worst, most criminal President ever.

Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09

Buck Fush

Comment by Buckie Boy — February 29, 2008 @ 7:07 pm



http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/29/bush-to-veto-anti-torture-bill-next-week/
chimpys logic:

“we don’t torture, so there’s no reason to have a law on the books outlawing it.”

i, too can’t wait for the day i can say i’m really proud to be an american - it surely isn’t during these times & this administration. they’ve trampled on almost everything relating to the constitution.

Comment by Tstatguy — February 29, 2008 @ 7:09 pm




… the president likely will not act until after Tuesday’s primaries, since numerous lawmakers will not be on Capitol Hill then.

more likely, since numerous lawmakers are avoiding the ugly
message this sends during their campaigns…

Comment by katy — February 29, 2008 @ 7:09 pm




#3 Comment by Buckie Boy — February 29, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
Buckie - that about says it all

Comment by muzz — February 29, 2008 @ 7:13 pm




So, exactly how many times has Bush said “We do not torture”. And yet he is going to veto a bill that says “we don’t torture”. I guess he’s lying.

Comment by bilbobaggins — February 29, 2008 @ 7:14 pm




America does not torture

. …after January 20th, 2009.

Comment by McWars — February 29, 2008 @ 7:15 pm




I truly believe that Bush gets off on torture. He is a mean, cowardly man, with strong sociopathic tendencies.

Comment by VerbalKint — February 29, 2008 @ 7:17 pm




But really, if “America does not torture”, what does Bush have to fear about this bill?

Do Republicans cherish being inconsistent?

Comment by McWars — February 29, 2008 @ 7:18 pm




If there is a god, one day before I die, he or she will allow me the satisfaction of seeing this smirking chimpanzee with electrodes attached to his… while he’s being waterboarded!

Comment by TheRadicalRightisRadicallyWrong — February 29, 2008 @ 7:18 pm




.

When did torture become legal that
Congress has to go and make it illegal…

… AGAIN?

.

Comment by Max-1 — February 29, 2008 @ 7:20 pm




You want REAL TORTURE? SUFFERING through one of Bush’s BORING IDIOTIC SPEECHES, NOW THAT’S REAL TORTURE, HAVING TO LISTEN TO THAT CRAP THAT DERANGED CHIMPANZEE VOMITS FROM HIS DISPICABLE MAW!!!!!

Comment by raymundohpl — February 29, 2008 @ 7:21 pm




With the increase of terroristic gangland activity in the United States how much longer does anyone believe before those laws meant to thwart terrorism of a foreign nature will be asked by Americans to be used to get a handle on this domestic problem?

Comment by leftcoast — February 29, 2008 @ 7:28 pm




I mourn for my country.

We have lost our way.

Comment by Ms_Joanne — February 29, 2008 @ 7:29 pm




I really hate this undignified and disgraceful failure.

Comment by NoMoreBush — February 29, 2008 @ 7:31 pm




America has become a rogue nation.

Full of warmongers and racists and torturers.

Thanks Monkey Boy and Deadeye.

-GSD

Comment by GSD — February 29, 2008 @ 7:34 pm




I truly believe that Bush gets off on torture. He is a mean, cowardly man, with strong sociopathic tendencies.

Comment by VerbalKint
Why use the word “strong” when TOTAL

works so well.

Although I wonder who is person that tells him he can do this crap and get away with it? I also wonder if his Da Da has ever really confronted him on his behavior? I mean I know about how corrupt that family is but would you want to be the father of that jerk, and be told you should have taken him out fishing and not brought back.


Comment by natisman — February 29, 2008 @ 7:35 pm




Excuse my bad work with blockquote !!!

Comment by natisman — February 29, 2008 @ 7:37 pm




.

#14 Comment by leftcoast — February 29, 2008 @ 7:28 pm


But, but, but…

We’re number one!


For the first time in U.S. history, more than one of every 100 adults is in jail or prison, according to a new report documenting the nation’s rank as the world’s No. 1 incarcerator.

The report urges states to curtail corrections spending by placing fewer low-risk offenders behind bars.

Using state-by-state data, the report says 2,319,258 Americans were in jail or prison at the start of 2008, one of every 99.1 adults. Whether per capita or in raw numbers, it’s more than any other nation.

The ballooning prison population is largely the result of tougher state and federal sentencing imposed since the mid-1980s. Minorities have been hit particularly hard: One in nine black men ages 20 to 34 is behind bars. For black women ages 35 to 39, the figure is one in 100, compared with one in 355 white women in the same age group.

The report, released Thursday by The Pew Center on the States, said the 50 states spent more than $49 billion on corrections last year, up from less than $11 billion 20 years earlier. The rate of increase for prison costs was six times greater than for higher-education spending, the report said.

The growing inmate population “is saddling cash-strapped states with soaring costs they can ill afford and failing to have a clear impact either on recidivism or overall crime,” the report said.



.

Comment by Max-1 — February 29, 2008 @ 7:40 pm




another outrage…

Making a Killing
By: Bill W. @ 4:13 PM - PST
After Helmets Were Found Faulty - DoD Awards Co Another $74 Million Contract

And “the company can assert sovereign immunity in any private lawsuits brought by soldiers.”

J Street’s Te-Ping Chen:

Last December, after secret tapes revealed the North Dakota Sioux Manufacturing Company charged with producing helmets for soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan had knowingly delivered some 2.2 million helmets made with substandard weave, the Defense Department wasn’t fazed by the controversy. Rather, 12 days before the pending Justice Department lawsuit was settled (with a $2-million slap on the wrist), the DOD issued another contract to the Sioux Manufacturing Company worth up to $74 million.

VoteVets.org and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington launched a campaign for Congressional inquiry into the contract … (read on)
http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Comment by katy — February 29, 2008 @ 7:42 pm




I’d give most anything for the chance to torture that worthless excuse of a man. If anyone on this planet deserves to be tortured it’s George Bush for the systematic destruction of this country and a seemingly unending string of horrendous lies to it’s people. His whole family are Nazi lovers and wannabes. I’d love to have a lottery of Hurrican Katrina victims for the chance to slap the face of that horrible wretch of a woman he calls his mother for the terribly insensitive things she said in Katrina’s aftermath.
Bush is always talking about Freedom. He doesn’t have a single clue what the meaning of that word is.

Comment by Mr. Evil — February 29, 2008 @ 7:42 pm




Hey everybody! Get the popcorn ready! Here’s a nice fun video for your enjoyment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAgQIPvgZJI

Comment by Mr. Evil — February 29, 2008 @ 7:55 pm




Memo to Pelosi:

Waste of time pandering for King George to change his mind. Bush is taking his orders from his boss President Cheney.

Comment by SP Biloxi — February 29, 2008 @ 8:08 pm




This is a huge arrow in the heart of our constitution.

Why? Someone tell me why the Christian right is not outraged about Bush’s impending veto against banning torture.

I am sick to death of this country’s so called Christians who are remaining quiet while this man is getting away with murder.

They could be the strongest voice against this kind of atrocity about to be committed in the ever so “white” house. Yet so many of these christians who want to fight a war on terror are committing it by proxy.

Let them rapture themselves away from some other planet. I want to save this one.

Comment by civil behavior — February 29, 2008 @ 8:54 pm




I don’t know who said it first, but WWJT? Who Would Jesus Torture? Bush and Cheney and all of their enablers, should be brought up on international war crime charges after they leave office. The whole world looks upon us like we use to look upon the Soviet Union and their Gulags.

Comment by arguewithmydad — February 29, 2008 @ 10:08 pm




Words can not describe how I feel, I am exiled in the UK away from my husband and babies and I so much love and miss them, I am heartbroken about my ordeal. I am so upset and overwhelmed by it all. I am not taking anything for my depression. I'm trying to hang in there, but it is hard.

Offline bigron

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Ben Griffin: Former SAS, Banned Speech to Anti-War Rally

Ben Griffin speaks to World Against War rally before being gagged by UK Government

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19444.htm

"As of 1940 hrs 29/02/08 I have been placed under an injunction preventing me from speaking publicly and publishing material gained as a result of my service in UKSF (SAS).

I will be continuing to collect evidence and opinion on British Involvement in extraordinary rendition, torture, secret detentions, extra judicial detention, use of evidence gained through torture, breaches of the Geneva Conventions, breaches of International Law and failure to abide by our obligations as per UN Convention Against Torture. I am carrying on regardless "
Ben Griffin, Former UK Special forces trooper

Ben Griffin, the ex-SAS trooper who this week revealed the extensive British collaboration with US rendition and torture, was served with an injunction immediately after speaking at the London World Against War rally last night. The government is trying to gag Ben to prevent any more revelations about British involvement in the US policy of kidnapping people and sending them to secret centres for interrogation and torture.
 
Video :  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb50-ouA-IA&eurl=http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19444.htm



Former SAS soldier blows apart Miliband denial of UK torture involvement.

Written by Stewart office

This statement was prepared and read by Ben Griffin, ex-SAS soldier, at a press conference on Monday 25 February 2008.

Our government would have us believe that our involvement in the process known as Extraordinary Rendition is limited to two occasions on which planes carrying detainees landed to refuel on the British Indian Ocean Territory, Diego Garcia. David Miliband has stated that the British Government expects the Government of the United States to “seek permission to render detainees via UK territory and airspace, including Overseas Territories; that we will grant that permission only if we are satisfied that the rendition would accord with UK law and our international obligations; and how we understand our obligations under the UN Convention Against Torture¹.” (Taken from a statement given to the House of Commons by the Foreign Secretary David Miliband on Thursday 21 February 2008)

The use of British Territory and airspace pales into insignificance in light of the fact that it has been British soldiers detaining the victims of Extraordinary Rendition in the first place. Since the invasion of Afghanistan in the autumn of 2001 UKSF has operated within a joint US/UK Task Force. This Task Force has been responsible for the detention of hundreds if not thousands of individuals in Afghanistan and Iraq. Individuals detained by British soldiers within this Task force have ended up in Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp, Bagram Theatre Internment Facility, Balad Special Forces Base, Camp Nama BIAP and Abu Ghraib Prison.

Whilst the government has stated its desire that the Guantanamo Bay detention camp be closed, it has remained silent over these other secretive prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan. These secretive prisons are part of a global network in which individuals face torture and are held indefinately without charge. All of this is in direct contravention of the Geneva Conventions, International Law and the UN Convention Against Torture.

Early involvement of UKSF in the process of Extraordinary Rendition centres around operations carried out in Afghanistan in late 2001. Of note is an incident at the Qalai Janghi fortress, near Mazar-i-Sharif. UKSF fought alongside their US counterparts to put down a bloody revolt by captured Taliban fighters. The surviving Taliban fighters were then rendered to Guantanamo Bay.

After the invasion of Iraq in 2003 this joint US/UK task force appeared. Its primary mission was to kill or capture high value targets. Individuals detained by this Task Force often included non-combatants caught up in the search for high value targets. The use of secret detention centres within Iraq has negated the need to use Guantanamo Bay whilst allowing similar practice to go unnoticed.

I have here an account taken from an interpreter interviewed by the organisation Human Rights Watch (http://hrw.org/reports/2006/us0706/2.htm). He was based at the detention and interrogation facility within Camp Nama at Baghdad International Airport during 2004. This facility was used to interrogate individuals captured by the joint US/UK Task Force. In it are the details of numerous breaches of the Geneva Convention and accounts of torture. These breaches were not the actions of rogue elements the abuse was systematic and sanctioned through the chain of command. This account is corroborated by an investigation carried out by NYT reporters into Camp Nama and the US/UK Task Force, which appeared in the New York Times on March 19 2006. Throughout my time in Iraq I was in no doubt that individuals detained by UKSF and handed over to our American colleagues would be tortured. During my time as member of the US/UK Task Force, three soldiers recounted to me an incident in which they had witnessed the brutal interrogation of two detainees. Partial drowning and an electric cattle prod were used during this interrogation and this amounted to torture. It was the widely held assumption that this would be the fate of any individuals handed over to our America colleagues. My commanding officer at the time expressed his concern to the whole squadron that we were becoming “the secret police of Baghdad”.

As UK soldiers within this Task Force a policy that we would detain individuals but not arrest them was continually enforced. Since it was commonly assumed by my colleagues that anyone we detained would subsequently be tortured this policy of detention and not arrest was regarded as a clumsy legal tool used to distance British soldiers from the whole process.

During the many operations conducted to apprehend high value targets numerous non-combatants were detained and interrogated in direct contravention of the Geneva Convention regarding the treatment of civilians in occupied territories. I have no doubt in my mind that non-combatants I personally detained were handed over to the Americans and subsequently tortured.

The joint US/UK Task Force has broken International Law, contravened The Geneva Conventions and disregarded the UN Convention Against Torture. British soldiers are intimately involved in the actions of this Task Force. Jack Straw, Margaret Beckett David Miliband, Geoff Hoon, Des Browne, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown. In their respective positions over the last five years they must know that British soldiers have been operating within this joint US/UK task force. They must have been briefed on the actions of this unit.

As the occupiers of Iraq we have a duty to uphold the law, to abide by the Geneva Conventions and the UN Convention Against Torture. We are also responsible for securing the borders of Iraq on all counts we have failed. The British Army once had a reputation for playing by the rules. That reputation has been tarnished over the last seven years. We have accepted illegality as the norm. I have no doubt that over the coming months and years increasing amounts of information concerning the actions of British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan will be become public.

Whilst the majority of British Forces have been withdrawn from Iraq, UKSF remain within the US/UK Task Force.

¹Torture, according to the United Nations Convention Against Torture, is "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession.”

Ben Griffin
25 February 2008
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=533&Itemid=27


Offline darsie

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Thanks for posting this bigron. The UK stands shoulder to shoulder with the US in Iraq and Afghanistan so this should be of no surprise.

QUOTE:"During the many operations conducted to apprehend high value targets numerous non-combatants were detained and interrogated in direct contravention of the Geneva Convention regarding the treatment of civilians in occupied territories. I have no doubt in my mind that non-combatants I personally detained were handed over to the Americans and subsequently tortured."

A damning indictment against the UK government.

It's a sad indictment of how censored the British populace is nowadays when this info. is only available on alternative news outlets - informationclearing house and a few others -

Mind you - thousands of hours of media time will be devoted to Prince Harry and his minor involvement in military events in Afghanistan.

Offline goulash

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HE' SHOULD GET A MEDAL NOT HARRY
peace  is war enjoy ..where's the  war  were  always at war ™ ' said harry i do like  it so'

the real cost of  war

Offline darsie

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HE' SHOULD GET A MEDAL NOT HARRY

Are you referring to Miliband?

Offline goulash

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 NO THATS not how it works in the UK miliband  will go onto  private enterprise IE
arms sales  directorship  harry will get a gong
 and the ex trooper  will get shafted by the Establishment  but as a former UK solider  i would  give him support  for
not turning into a mindless shill for the  nwo  see  my early post about  mines diana and  arms sales
 ex soldiers  for truth ..  pip pip
peace  is war enjoy ..where's the  war  were  always at war ™ ' said harry i do like  it so'

the real cost of  war

Offline darsie

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NO THATS not how it works in the UK miliband  will go onto  private enterprise IE
arms sales  directorship  harry will get a gong
 and the ex trooper  will get shafted by the Establishment  but as a former UK solider  i would  give him support  for
not turning into a mindless shill for the  nwo
  see  my early post about  mines diana and  arms sales
 ex soldiers  for truth ..  pip pip

goulash - any chance of elaborating on this?

Offline goulash

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 yea no problem read some of my posts
 also  im working on a new web site 
im a radio dj in vancouver   but im in the  uk right now  looking after my dad  and
i make political comics  and im  involved in a project doing a peace /truth  newspaper
 here in the uk

http://gallery.mac.com/bikebox#gallery] comic's

http://web.mac.com/bikebox/radio_radio/Welcome.html  blog but im working on a new version

http://www.youtube.com/djgoulash  u tube
 
http://robertcalm.com/The_Freedom_Times.html newspaper/info  very much a work in progress
peace  is war enjoy ..where's the  war  were  always at war ™ ' said harry i do like  it so'

the real cost of  war

Offline chris jones

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Courage and conscience, keep going brother. We the commoners, must some forward, you did this expertly, my reasoning being that you scared the shite out of your ol Gov.

Truth has that effect on your politicians as well as ours.
CJ

Offline MikiQuick123

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Letters Give CIA Tactics A Legal(?) Rationale
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2008, 03:42:37 am »
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/washington/27intel.html?ref=washington



The New York Times
April 27, 2008
Letters Give C.I.A. Tactics a Legal Rationale
By MARK MAZZETTI


WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has told Congress that American intelligence operatives attempting to thwart terrorist attacks can legally use interrogation methods that might otherwise be prohibited under international law.

The legal interpretation, outlined in recent letters, sheds new light on the still-secret rules for interrogations by the Central Intelligence Agency. It shows that the administration is arguing that the boundaries for interrogations should be subject to some latitude, even under an executive order issued last summer that President Bush said meant that the C.I.A. would comply with international strictures against harsh treatment of detainees.

While the Geneva Conventions prohibit “outrages upon personal dignity,” a letter sent by the Justice Department to Congress on March 5 makes clear that the administration has not drawn a precise line in deciding which interrogation methods would violate that standard, and is reserving the right to make case-by-case judgments.

“The fact that an act is undertaken to prevent a threatened terrorist attack, rather than for the purpose of humiliation or abuse, would be relevant to a reasonable observer in measuring the outrageousness of the act,” said Brian A. Benczkowski, a deputy assistant attorney general, in the letter, which had not previously been made public.

Mr. Bush issued the executive order last summer to comply with restrictions imposed by the Supreme Court and Congress. The order spelled out new standards for interrogation techniques, requiring that they comply with international standards for humane treatment, but it did not identify any approved techniques.

It has been clear that the order preserved at least some of the latitude that Mr. Bush has permitted the C.I.A. in using harsher interrogation techniques than those permitted by the military or other agencies. But the new documents provide more details about how the administration intends to determine whether a specific technique would be legal, depending on the circumstances involved.

The letters from the Justice Department to Congress were provided by the staff of Senator Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat who is a member of the Intelligence Committee and had sought more information from the department.

Some legal experts critical of the Justice Department interpretation said the department seemed to be arguing that the prospect of thwarting a terror attack could be used to justify interrogation methods that would otherwise be illegal.

“What they are saying is that if my intent is to defend the United States rather than to humiliate you, than I have not committed an offense,” said Scott L. Silliman, who teaches national security law at Duke University.

But a senior Justice Department official strongly challenged this interpretation on Friday, saying that the purpose of the interrogation would be just one among many factors weighed in determining whether a specific procedure could be used.

“I certainly don’t want to suggest that if there’s a good purpose you can head off and humiliate and degrade someone,” said the official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was describing some legal judgments that remain classified.

“The fact that you are doing something for a legitimate security purpose would be relevant, but there are things that a reasonable observer would deem to be outrageous,” he said.

At the same time, the official said, “there are certainly things that can be insulting that would not raise to the level of an outrage on personal dignity.”

The humiliating and degrading treatment of prisoners is prohibited by Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.

Determining the legal boundaries for interrogating terrorism suspects has been a struggle for the Bush administration. Some of those captured in the first two years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks were subjected to particularly severe methods, including waterboarding, which induces a feeling of drowning.

But the rules for interrogations became more restrictive beginning in 2004, when the Justice Department rescinded a number of classified legal opinions, including a memorandum written in August 2002 that argued that nothing short of the pain associated with organ failure constituted illegal torture. The executive order that Mr. Bush issued in July 2007 was a further restriction, in response to a Supreme Court ruling in 2006 that holding that all prisoners in American captivity must be treated in accordance with Common Article 3.

Mr. Benczkowski’s letters were in response to questions from Mr. Wyden, whose committee had received classified briefings about the executive order.

That order specifies some conduct that it says would be prohibited in any interrogation, including forcing an individual to perform sexual acts, or threatening an individual with sexual mutilation. But it does not say which techniques could still be permitted.

Legislation that was approved this year by the House and the Senate would have imposed further on C.I.A. interrogations, by requiring that they conform to rules spelled out in the Army handbook for military interrogations that bans coercive procedures. But Mr. Bush vetoed that bill, saying that the use of harsh interrogation methods had been effective in preventing terrorist attacks.

The legal reasoning included in the latest Justice Department letters is less expansive than what department lawyers offered as recently as 2005 in defending the use of aggressive techniques. But they show that the Bush administration lawyers are citing the sometimes vague language of the Geneva Conventions to support the idea that interrogators should not be bound by ironclad rules.

In one letter written Sept. 27, 2007, Mr. Benczkowski argued that “to rise to the level of an outrage” and thus be prohibited under the Geneva Conventions, conduct “must be so deplorable that the reasonable observer would recognize it as something that should be universally condemned.”

Mr. Wyden said he was concerned that, under the new rules, the Bush administration had put Geneva Convention restrictions on a “sliding scale.”

If the United States used subjective standards in applying its interrogation rules, he said, then potential enemies might adopt different standards of treatment for American detainees based on an officer’s rank or other factors.

“The cumulative effect in my interpretation is to put American troops at risk,” Mr. Wyden said.


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edmund Burke

Offline Dig

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Justice Dept Says US Spies Can Use Interrogation Methods That Would Be Prohibited By International Law
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/26/justice-dept-says-us-spie_n_98795.html
New York Times   |  Mark Mazzetti   |   April 26, 2008 08:14 PM

The Justice Department has told Congress that American intelligence operatives attempting to thwart terrorist attacks can legally use interrogation methods that might otherwise be prohibited under international law.

The legal interpretation, outlined in recent letters, sheds new light on the still-secret rules for interrogations by the Central Intelligence Agency. It shows that the administration is arguing that the boundaries for interrogations should be subject to some latitude, even under an executive order issued last summer that President Bush said meant that the C.I.A. would comply with international strictures against harsh treatment of detainees.

While the Geneva Conventions prohibit "outrages upon personal dignity," a letter sent by the Justice Department to Congress on March 5 makes clear that the administration has not drawn a precise line in deciding which interrogation methods would violate that standard, and is reserving the right to make case-by-case judgments.

"The fact that an act is undertaken to prevent a threatened terrorist attack, rather than for the purpose of humiliation or abuse, would be relevant to a reasonable observer in measuring the outrageousness of the act," said Brian A. Benczkowski, a deputy assistant attorney general, in the letter, which had not previously been made public.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline CFF

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This is pure mind warfare.
1st) This message is actually code to the military and intelligence people, it reassures them that they won't be prosecuted in case they torture or abuse people. Remember the experiment where people were simply told to electrocute to death detainees and they did it without remorse?

2nd) Everybody remotely trained in intelligence gathering knows that if you torture someone, the information is useless because they'll admit to having flown to the moon and back on a flying carpet.

3rd) This is to deter potential whistle-blowers.

4th) This is for you to submit. In medicine you see that if you tell your patient all the procedures before the surgery, what will happen step by step, they are more assured and calm. Likewise, here, they acclimate you to reasonably accept the use of irrational things. Incrementally, one thought at the time.

Offline CFF

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

This is the experiment I was referring to.
It's exactly the same thing on a broader scale.

"At this point, many people indicated their desire to stop the experiment and check on the learner. Some test subjects paused at 135 volts and began to question the purpose of the experiment. Most continued after being assured that they would not be held responsible. A few subjects began to laugh nervously or exhibit other signs of extreme stress once they heard the screams of pain coming from the learner.[1]
If at any time the subject indicated his desire to halt the experiment, he was given a succession of verbal prods by the experimenter, in this order:[1]
Please continue.
The experiment requires that you continue.
It is absolutely essential that you continue.
You have no other choice, you must go on."

This is mind warfare applied to you, through the control of others. The NWO architects base their actions on scientific data. That's why they're flawless compared to the instinct-run joe.


Offline EchelonMonitor

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Don't forget Bush's own Isis contractors.

Offline chris jones

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They had to find away round their by the book scheme. Though it mattered little, pablum for the people. Bush's agreeement of torture. What pathetic means they use to get the minds of the people. Its as though they are tellin us, its ok, its for you own good that we fry these people. We are America, we are the Gov. we will protect you no matter what.
Torture them long enough and they will admit to being porky pig, reminds me of the spanish inquisition. Back to the dark ages.

They will hope for death. They will admit to anything the interogators tell them too. Not only is it inhuman, it has not value even except for the ture purpose behind it, and I do not beleive it would be to get the truth. They could create any army of patsys.





Offline Dig

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Don't forget Bush's own Isis contractors.

reference?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline EchelonMonitor

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Sorry, Usis rather than Isis

Usis is owned by the Carlyle Group

Google:

usis carlyle iraq

usis contractor Westhusing

Usis contractors are the ones who most likely murdered Colonel Westhusing before he could get back to the US and testify about how they were defrauding the taxpayer and murdering Iraqi civilians.

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2006/01/carlyle-group-usis-col-westhusing.html

Quote
Army's chief ethics expert was murdered, according to Carlyle Group insider.

According an informed source within The Carlyle Group business consortium, Col. Ted Westhusing, the Army's top military ethicist and professor at West Point, did not commit suicide in a Baghdad trailer in June 2005 as was widely reported in the mainstream media five months later.

At the time of his death, Westhusing was investigating contract violations and human rights abuses by US Investigations Services (USIS), formerly a federal agency, the Office of Federal Investigations (OFI), which operated under the Office of Personnel Management (OPM).

In 1996, OFI, which conducted background investigations for civil service personnel, was privatized. The 700 government employees of OFI became employee-owners as part of USIS.

In January 2003, the New York investment firm Welsh, Carson, Anderson, and Stowe, described by a Carlyle insider as a virtual shadow operation for The Carlyle Group, bought USIS for $545 million.

ISIS is also a company of note-torture instructors: 
Quote
"If you are qualified as interrogator, you now are either in Iraq or teaching others how to do it when they go there," said Pat Gromek, who spent 23 years as an Army intelligence officer and now handles business development for Integrated Systems Improvement Services Inc. in Sierra Vista, Ariz., the site of Fort Huachuca. ISIS is one of the firms selected to supply interrogation instructors.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/22/AR2006092201486_pf.html

I'm trying to find out who owns ISIS.




Offline trixi1

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Psychologists Collaborated with "War on Terror" Torture Program
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2008, 02:39:41 pm »


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8884

Psychologists Collaborated with "War on Terror" Torture Program

by Tom Burghardt

Global Research, May 3, 2008
Antifascist Calling...


Antifascist Calling...

Newly declassified documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) from the Department of Defense (DoD) expose the role played by psychologists in the illegal interrogation of prisoners at CIA and Pentagon detention facilities in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

According to ACLU staff attorney Amrit Singh,

    "The documents reveal that psychologists and medical personnel played a key role in sustaining prisoner abuse -- a clear violation of their ethical and legal obligations. The documents only underscore the need for an independent investigation into responsibility for the systemic abuse of detainees held in U.S. custody abroad." ("Newly Unredacted Report Confirms Psychologists Supported Illegal Interrogations in Iraq and Afghanistan," ACLU, Press Release, April 30, 2008)

In 2006, the civil liberties group received a highly redacted version of the Church Report, commissioned by former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Written by Vice Admiral Albert T. Church, the report was to serve as a "comprehensive review" of military interrogation operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay.

A cover-up the moment it saw the light of day, the Church Report refused to address relevant issues of command responsibility for prisoner abuse and torture at U.S. military detention facilities and CIA "black sites," claiming such questions were "beyond its mandate."

Official failure to issue legal interrogation guidelines for the humane treatment of prisoners by American military forces and mercenary contractors in their employ were euphemistically labeled "a missed opportunity."

But as we now know, under the torture regime given legal sanction by the Bush administration, as ABC News reported in April, medicalized torture by military psychologists operating in U.S. dungeons was both a ubiquitous and banal aspect of the "war on terror." According to the Church Report whitewash, military psychologists:

    ...analogous to the [Behavioral Science Consultation Teams] BSCT in Guantánamo Bay, the Army has a number of psychologists in operational positions (in both Afghanistan and Iraq), mostly within Special Operations, where they provide direct support to military operations. They do not function as mental health providers, and one of their core missions is to support interrogations. [emphasis added]

Indeed, BSCT operatives at America's premier gulag, Guantánamo Bay, "reversed-engineered" Special Operations Command's Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape (SERE) program as a means to destroy a prisoners' will to resist his captors demands to "confess" to all manner of "plots," however far-fetched, against the U.S. "homeland."

Following a script written during the CIA's MKULTRA "mind control" days, the KUBARK Counterintelligence Manual, vicious techniques of isolation, sensory deprivation, sexual and cultural humiliation, waterboarding, etc. were viciously applied by behavioral "specialists."

As psychoanalyst Stephen Soldz wrote last year, citing the DoD's August 2006 report from the Office of the Inspector General,

    All evidence is that these SERE techniques continued to be used, with active participation of the BSCT psychologists. For example, it is well documented (see the interrogation log) that the chair of the Guantánamo BSCT team, psychologist Major John Leso participated in the abusive interrogation ( a.k.a. torture) of prisoner 063, Mohammed al-Qahtani. A July 14, 2004 memo from the FBI to the Army Criminal Investigation Command documents the effects of this interrogation on al-Qatani:

    "In September or October of 2002 FBI agents observed that a canine was used in an aggressive manner to intimidate detainee -- after he had been subjected to intense isolation for over three months. During that time period, ... was totally isolated (with the exception of occasional interrogations) in a cell that was always flooded with light. By late November, the detainee was evidencing behavior consistent with extreme psychological trauma (talking to non-existent people, reporting hearing voices, crouching in the corner of a cell covered with a sheet for hours on end). It is unknown to the FBI whether such extended isolation was approved by DoD authorities." ...

    With the release of the OIG's report, it is now irrefutable that both SERE psychologists and Guantánamo BSCT psychologists were involved in the development of these forms of interrogation abuse, forms of interrogation that clearly constitute psychological torture and were illegal under the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and various US laws until the 2006 Military Commissions Act granted immunity to those who had previously broken these laws during the "Global War On Terror." (Stephen Soldz, "Shrinks and the SERE Technique at Guantánamo," CounterPunch, May 29, 2007)

The ACLU's latest tranche of documents also reveal that Army medics routinely failed to report the abuse of prisoners in Iraq. According to the ACLU, citing the Church Report,

    "enlisted medics witnessed obvious episodes of detainee abuse apparently without reporting them to superiors." One episode involved a detainee whose wounded leg was intentionally hit. Two others involved detainees handcuffed uncomfortably to beds for prolonged periods, such that one eventually suffered a dislocated shoulder and another experienced excruciating pain when eventually forced to stand. Another incident involved a medic who witnessed pictures of naked detainees in a pyramid but did not report the episode to superiors.

Grimly, the report found that in three separate instances between November and June 2003, three detainees were in all probability murdered by U.S. forces: at Abu Ghraib a prisoner died due to "compromised respiration"; a prisoner at Forward Operating Base Tiger in Iraq, "died of asphyxia during interrogation"; while a third detainee in Al Nasiriyah died of strangulation. His ribs and neck bones had been broken. The Church Report avers: "the investigation suggests he was beaten and then dragged by the neck by a guard."

But in the post-Constitutional bizarro world of Bushist "homeland security," guilt, innocence, or for that matter the security of the American people, are of no consequence. What is important however, for the masters of the American deep state, is "keeping the rabble in line" by regular injections of psychological terror dispensed by administration shills and their "message force multipliers," the corporate media.

Tom Burghardt is a researcher and activist based in the San Francisco Bay Area. In addition to publishing in Covert Action Quarterly, Love & Rage and Antifa Forum, he is the editor of Police State America: U.S. Military "Civil Disturbance" Planning, distributed by AK Press.

Tom Burghardt is a frequent contributor to Global Research.  Global Research Articles by Tom Burghardt

------------------------------

When are more honorable people and officials going to stand against this? This is clearly not interrogation, it's just out and out torture. You can call it by any other name, it doesn't change what it really is. Again, 'just following orders' won't work when the SHTF.  >:(

John 3:16 teaches us: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 14:6 says:  "I am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME."

Offline chris jones

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Re: Psychologists Collaborated with "War on Terror" Torture Program
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2008, 08:36:53 pm »
Physcologists.Doctors, chemists, diseace control experts, nuclear physcists, theologists,  germ warfare specialist, computer experts, progarming experts, weapons experts, hefty titles.
Prestigious money grubbers, sold out.they all fit into the same category.
Its a fairly well know fact the human body can take just so much pain, that the mind can take only so much mental abuse without cracking. The Spanish inquisiton proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they were in control. If the subject confessed he was killed, if he did not confess he was tortutred untill he did confess or die in the process.
After a few water boards, and electric shock, depravtion of human contact other than physical abuse,  living in excrement.
Lets face it we could make the subject give up and quack like a duck, or belive he was Ceasar reincarnated.
Real moral stuff huh.
This is not a credible solution and they know that, common sence dictates this. They are attemtpting to change the face and direction of this nation, and they have.  Sadism is being inbred into our society , if the high ups approve of it, and physcoligists agree who can argue.         We can, it has been many years since the regime has been exposed to integrity and honor, true patriotism not bullshiite bravado and flag waving.The MARCH, may we pray it brings to light the parasites, the evil that has become our leadership. It is a first step, and integral to reviving our once great nation.

Offline Optimus

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Democrat: Pentagon sought abusive interrogations
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2008, 10:44:06 am »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080617/ap_on_go_co/detainees_treatment;_ylt=Ami62CpkDdGeKedAJF120kGs0NUE
By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
4 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Military officials tasked with training U.S. troops to evade enemy interrogations provided Pentagon lawyers a list of abusive tactics that could be used in prisons like Guantanamo Bay, a top Senate Democrat disclosed Tuesday.

Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said the harsh techniques were then pursued despite strong objections in November 2002 by the military's uniformed lawyers.

"If we use those same techniques offensively against detainees, it says to the world that they have America's stamp of approval," said Levin, D-Mich., at the onset of a committee hearing.

"That puts our troops at greater risk of being abused if they're captured. It also weakens our moral authority and harms our efforts to attract allies to our side in the fight against terrorism."

The hearing is the committee's first look at the origins of the harsher methods used in Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba and Abu Ghraib in Iraq and how policy decisions on interrogations were vetted across the Defense Department. Its review fits into a broader picture of the government's handling of detainees, which includes FBI and CIA interrogations in secret prisons.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said the administration's legal analysis on detainees and interrogations following the the Sept. 11 attacks will "go down in history as some of the most irresponsible and shortsighted legal analysis ever provided to our nation's military and intelligence communities."

The Pentagon's top civilian lawyer at the time, chief counsel William "Jim" Haynes, was expected to testify. Also present were Richard Shiffrin, Haynes' former deputy on intelligence matters, as well as legal advisers at the time to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Guantanamo Bay prison.

According to the Senate committee's findings, Haynes became interested in using harsher interrogation methods as early as July 2002 when his office inquired into a military program that trained Army soldiers on how to survive enemy interrogations and deny foes valuable intelligence.

Haynes and other officials wanted to know if the program — known as "Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape" training — could be used used to develop more effective interrogation methods.

Shiffrin said his interest was not so much in trying reverse engineer the tactics to be used against the enemy but rather tapping military expertise in interrogations.

In response, the head of the Joint Personnel Recovery Agency, which ran the SERE program, offered that resistance training included sensory deprivation, sleep disruption, stress positions, waterboarding and slapping.

Several of those techniques, including stress positions, were later approved by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in a December 2002 memo.

Levin said these techniques were approved despite fierce objections a month earlier by the military services' lawyers. In separate memos, the lawyers told the Joint Chiefs of Staff that the techniques warranted further study and could be illegal.

The committee also released previously secret and privately held memos dating from the 2002 inception of the harsh interrogation program at Guantanamo.

In one of them, the top military lawyer at Guantanamo, Lt. Col. Diane Beaver, explains that the Defense Department had made a practice of hiding prisoners who were being treated harshly, even abusively, from the International Committee of the Red Cross, a non-governmental body empowered to monitor compliance with Geneva Convention rules for the treatment of military prisoners.

Beaver also confirmed that the military was secretly using previously forbidden techniques, such as sleep deprivation, but hiding them so as not to draw "negative attention," according to minutes of the meeting.

"Officially it is not happening," Beaver said, according to minutes from the meeting. "It is not being reported officially. The ICRC is a serious concern. They will be in and out, scrutinizing our operations, unless they are displeased and decide to protest and leave. This would draw a lot of negative attention."

Beaver said interrogators should "curb the harsher operations while ICRC is around."

Beaver was speaking at an Oct. 2, 2002 meeting between CIA and military lawyers and military intelligence officials on how to counter the resistance of Guantanamo detainees to military interrogation.

Beaver's comments suggest that the CIA's practice of hiding unregistered "ghost detainees" from the ICRC at military jails may have been as much in service to the Pentagon's interrogation program as it was to the CIA's.

A senior CIA lawyer at the meeting, John Fredman, explained that whether harsh interrogation amount to torture "is a matter of perception." The only sure test for torture is if the detainee died.

"If the detainees dies you're doing it wrong," Fredman said.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

>>> Global Gulag Media & Forum <<<

Offline Optimus

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Investigation: In Afghanistan, routine abuse of terror detainees
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2008, 01:51:55 pm »
Investigation: In Afghanistan, routine abuse of terror detainees
An eight-month review by McClatchy newspapers says the US wrongfully imprisoned many suspected Al Qaeda terrorists.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0617/p99s01-duts.html
By Anand Gopal
posted June 17, 2008 at 10:25 am EDT

Dozens and perhaps hundreds of terrorism suspects held in US detention centers around the globe have been wrongfully imprisoned, an investigation revealed on Sunday. The finding is the latest in a series of allegations and setbacks in US efforts to prosecute such suspects. Analysts say that some of these setbacks may force Washington to fundamentally change the way it approaches the detention of "enemy combatants."

McClatchy newspapers' eight-month investigation of US detention practices in 11 countries found that many of the wrongfully detained have also been abused. McClatchy interviewed 66 released detainees and spoke with former prison guards as well as several current and former US military legal advisers.

While international attention has focused on abuses in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, "sadistic violence" first appeared in US detention facilities in Afghanistan.

Guards said they routinely beat their prisoners to retaliate for al-Qaida's 9/11 attacks, unaware that the vast majority of the detainees had little or no connection to al-Qaida.

Former detainees at Bagram [a US detention base north of Kabul] and Kandahar said they were beaten regularly. Of the 41 former Bagram detainees whom McClatchy interviewed, 28 said that guards or interrogators had assaulted them. Only eight of those men said they were beaten at Guantánamo Bay.

The report goes on to say:

Specialist Jeremy Callaway, who admitted to striking about 12 detainees at Bagram, told military investigators in sworn testimony that he was uncomfortable following orders to "mentally and physically break the detainees." He didn't go into detail.

"I guess you can call it torture," said Callaway, who served in the 377th from August 2002 to January 2003.

Asked why someone would abuse a detainee, Callaway told military investigators: "Retribution for September 11 2001."

According to the McClatchy investigation, however, most detainees in Bagram were not involved in the Sept. 11 attacks.

Major Jeff Bovarnick, the former chief legal officer for operational law in Afghanistan and Bagram legal adviser, said in a sworn statement that of 500 detainees he knew of who'd passed through Bagram, only about 10 were high-value targets, the military's term for senior terrorist operatives.

In March, the Associated Press reported that a US military investigation revealed that detainee abuse occurred at Bagram. In April, The New York Times reported that the US turned over dozens of detained men to Afghan authorities, who then held secret trials where "witnesses [did] not appear in court and cannot be cross-examined. There [were] no sworn statements of their testimony." Instead, The Times writes,

[T]he trials appear to be based almost entirely on terse summaries of allegations that are forwarded to the Afghan authorities by the United States military. Afghan security agents add what evidence they can, but the cases generally center on events that sometimes occurred years ago in war zones that the authorities may now be unable to reach.

"These are no-witness paper trials that deny the defendants a fundamental fair-trial right to challenge the evidence and mount a defense," said Sahr MuhammedAlly, a lawyer for the advocacy group Human Rights First who has studied the proceedings. "So any convictions you get are fundamentally flawed."

The latest allegations by McClatchy come at a moment when US detention policy is suffering major setbacks. Last week, the US Supreme Court ruled that habeas corpus, or the right to challenge one's detention, applies to inmates held at Guantánamo Bay, meaning that these detainees have the right to challenge their detention in a court of law. The ruling undermines the premise of US detentions – that prisoners are "enemy combatants" held during wartime and therefore not subject to Constitutional law, reports the BBC.

Analysts say that the ruling will change the way Washington detains and prosecutes prisoners, reports NPR .

"I think that the decision today is the end of Guantanamo as we know it," said Georgetown law professor Neal Katyal, who represents one of the detainees.

Andrew McBride, who wrote a brief on behalf of former GOP attorneys general siding with the administration, called it a watershed decision: "For the first time in history, it does inject judicial supervision into the conduct of war."

The New York Times writes in a news analysis about Guantánamo:

"To the extent that Guantánamo exists to hold detainees beyond the reach of U.S. courts, this blows a hole in its reason for being," said Matthew Waxman, a former detainee affairs official at the Defense Department.

And without that, much will change.

The decision granted detainees the right to challenge their detention in civilian courts, meaning that federal judges will now have the power to check the government's claims that the 270 men still held there are dangerous terrorists. That will force officials to answer questions about evidence that they have long deflected despite international criticism and expressions of support, from President Bush on down, for closing the camp.

The findings also come at a time when US- and Afghan-run prisons are under increased scrutiny in Afghanistan. Taliban fighters attacked a prison in Kandahar on Friday, resulting in the escape of hundreds of prisoners, reports The Christian Science Monitor. The prison had witnessed frequent protests because of alleged mistreatment. Last month, more than 200 inmates launched a week-long hunger strike in protest of dismal living conditions and abuse, the Associated Press reported.

Some of those on the hunger strike had been held without trial for over two years. Others were given lengthy prison sentences after short trials…. 47 of the prisoners had stitched their mouths shut during the strike....

The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission said… that the prisoners had complained that foreign troops searched their homes on the basis of faulty intelligence and that they were tortured and humiliated during investigations.


“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

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sweet*sugar

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Pentagon tortures its own servicemen
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2008, 06:05:24 pm »
http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/18-06-2008/105535-tortures-0


The hearings on the case of abuse of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib prisoners started in the USA. The scandal started several years ago, when several excerpts of video footage depicting tortures of prisoners were distributed by the media all over the world. The tapes were subsequently destroyed. However, the videos made it obvious that the prisoners were tortured through sleep deprivation, sexual humiliation and drowning.    
      
Pentagon tortures its own servicemen

   
      

   


The trial may have launched another major scandal. It was revealed that US military men were abusing not only the prisoners, but their own fellow soldiers too. It was an experiment they arranged to find out how a US soldier would behave in case he becomes a captor of the Iraqis. US servicemen were particularly exposed to sleep and light deprivation and imitation of drowning. There is a whole training program called S.E.R.E. – Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape – which provides military personnel, Department of Defense civilians, and contractors with training in the Code of Conduct, survival skills, evading capture, recovery and dealing with captivity.

The Pentagon does not acknowledge the use of tortures. The US administration believes that the used methods do not go beyond the limits of necessary pressure. They were authorized by Donald Rumsfeld at the end of 2002, who took the position of the US Defense secretary at the time.

Several US, French and German human rights groups sued Rumsfeld in 2005 and then in 2007. Human rights activists wanted the official to carry responsibility for the prisoner abuse in US jails outside the USA.

The hearings may seriously undermine the reputation of presidential runoffs Barack Obama and John McCain. Borht of them deny the facts of excessive brutality used against prisoners. However, Obama stands for the withdrawal of troops form Ira, whereas McCain supports the idea of continuing the campaign.

Offline Optimus

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General: U.S. guilty of torture
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2008, 09:47:14 am »
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080619/NEWS07/806190349

He says responsible must pay for war crimes
BY WARREN P. STROBEL • MCCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS • June 19, 2008

WASHINGTON -- The Army general who led the investigation into prisoner abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison accused the Bush administration Wednesday of committing war crimes and called for those responsible to be held to account.

The remarks by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who is now retired, came in a report that found that U.S. personnel tortured and abused detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, using beatings, electrical shocks, sexual humiliation and other cruel practices.

"After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts and reports from human rights organizations, there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes," Taguba wrote. "The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."

Taguba, whose 2004 investigation documented abuses at Abu Ghraib, is thought to be the most senior official to have accused the administration of war crimes. "The commander in chief and those under him authorized a systematic regime of torture," he wrote.

A White House spokeswoman, Kate Starr, had no comment.

The group Physicians for Human Rights, which compiled the report, called it the most in-depth medical and psychological examination of former detainees to date.

Doctors and mental health experts examined 11 people held for long periods in the prison system that President George W. Bush established. All eventually were released without charges.

The physicians group said that its experts, who had experience studying torture's effects, spent two days with each former captive and conducted intensive exams and interviews. In two of the 11 cases, the group was able to review medical records.

The doctors and experts determined the men had been subject to cruelties that ranged from isolation, sleep deprivation and hooding to electric shocks, beating and, in one case, being forced to drink urine.

The report follows a probe by the Senate Armed Services Committee that revealed this week how senior Pentagon officials pushed for harsher interrogation methods over the objections of military lawyers.

Navy Cmdr. J.D. Gordon, a Pentagon spokesman, said the Defense Department responds to concerns raised by the International Committee for the Red Cross, which has access to detainees under military control.

"All credible allegations of abuse are thoroughly investigated and, if substantiated, those responsible are held accountable," he said.
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Offline chris jones

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Re: Torture: Only Good For False Confessions
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2008, 11:15:44 am »


I you had been tortured as these men have, would you forgive them,  would you bow down to the stars and stripes, would you pledge allegiance to this country. Thank them for their liberation and democracy.

Or if your children had been turned to chopped meat during their blanket bombing, a difference, I don't think so.

If it was you or me, we would find a way to rebel. YOU BET WE WOULD!!!Our esteemed elite are creating a fever of religous, human, and timeless future of war.
God help the children of this nation, and of all nations.

Today is a horror show, an abomination, give it another few years, IMAGINE>



Offline DireWolf

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Re: Torture: Only Good For False Confessions
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2008, 11:05:29 pm »
There is no good reason for physical torture at this juncture in history with the chemical drugs available to the US military and other US intel groups. Even psychological torture is a moot point in most cases.

Physical torture is being used to psychologically soften the minds of the majority, fear is a powerful incentive to cooperate and the psy-ops that will be used against us will only intensify in the coming future.
Freedom and Liberty, or slavery and death, your choice, choose wisely.

Offline Bh

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Re: Torture: Only Good For False Confessions
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2008, 05:58:21 pm »
Waterboarding works. Just ask this fine fellow.

Offline lord edward coke

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Re: General: U.S. guilty of torture
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2008, 08:53:00 am »
(PART ONE)

(U) The investigation should inquire into all of the facts and circumstances surrounding recent allegations of detainee abuse, specifically, allegations of maltreatment at the Abu Ghraib Prison (Baghdad Central Confinement Facility). 

1.  (U) The US Army Criminal Investigation Command (CID), led by COL Jerry Mocello, and a team of highly trained professional agents have done a superb job of investigating several complex and extremely disturbing incidents of detainee abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison.  They conducted over 50 interviews of witnesses, potential criminal suspects, and detainees.  They also uncovered numerous photos and videos portraying in graphic detail detainee abuse by Military Police personnel on numerous occasions from October to December 2003.  Several potential suspects rendered full and complete confessions regarding their personal involvement and the involvement of fellow Soldiers in this abuse.   Several potential suspects invoked their rights under Article 31 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and the 5th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.  (ANNEX 25)   

2.  (U) In addition to a comprehensive and exhaustive review of all of these statements and documentary evidence, we also interviewed numerous officers, NCOs, and junior enlisted Soldiers in the 800th MP Brigade, as well as members of the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade working at the prison.  We did not believe it was necessary to re-interview all the numerous witnesses who had previously provided comprehensive statements to CID, and I have adopted those statements for the purposes of this investigation.  (ANNEXES 26, 34, 35, and 45-91)   

REGARDING PART ONE OF THE INVESTIGATION, I MAKE THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC FINDINGS OF FACT:

1.  (U) That Forward Operating Base (FOB) Abu Ghraib (BCCF) provides security of both criminal and security detainees at the Baghdad Central Correctional Facility, facilitates the conducting of interrogations for CJTF-7, supports other CPA operations at the prison, and enhances the force protection/quality of life of Soldiers assigned in order to ensure the success of ongoing operations to secure a free Iraq.  (ANNEX 31)

2.  (U) That the Commander, 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, was designated by CJTF-7 as the Commander of FOB Abu Ghraib (BCCF) effective 19 November 2003.  That the 205th MI Brigade conducts operational and strategic interrogations for CJTF-7.   That from 19 November 2003 until Transfer of Authority (TOA) on 6 February 2004, COL Thomas M. Pappas was the Commander of the 205th MI Brigade and the Commander of FOB Abu Ghraib (BCCF).  (ANNEX 31)

3.  (U) That the 320th Military Police Battalion of the 800th MP Brigade is responsible for the Guard Force at Camp Ganci, Camp Vigilant, & Cellblock 1 of FOB Abu Ghraib (BCCF).  That from February 2003 to until he was suspended from his duties on 17 January 2004, LTC Jerry Phillabaum served as the Battalion Commander of the 320th MP Battalion.  That from December 2002 until he was suspended from his duties, on 17 January 2004, CPT Donald Reese served as the Company Commander of the 372ndMP Company, which was in charge of guarding detainees at FOB Abu Ghraib.  I further find that both the 320th MP Battalion and the 372ndMP Company were located within the confines of FOB Abu Ghraib.    (ANNEXES 32 and 45)

4.  (U) That from July of 2003 to the present, BG Janis L. Karpinski was the Commander of the 800th MP Brigade.   (ANNEX 45)

5.  (S) That between October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib Confinement Facility (BCCF), numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees.  This systemic and illegal abuse of detainees was intentionally perpetrated by several members of the military police guard force (372nd Military Police Company, 320thMilitary Police Battalion, 800th MP Brigade), in Tier (section) 1-A of the Abu Ghraib Prison (BCCF).  The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements (ANNEX 26) and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence.  Due to the extremely sensitive nature of these photographs and videos, the ongoing CID investigation, and the potential for the criminal prosecution of several suspects, the photographic evidence is not included in the body of my investigation.  The pictures and videos are available from the Criminal Investigative Command and the CTJF-7 prosecution team.  In addition to the aforementioned crimes, there were also abuses committed by members of the 325th MI Battalion, 205th MI Brigade, and Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC).  Specifically, on 24 November 2003, SPC Luciana Spencer, 205th MI Brigade, sought to degrade a detainee by having him strip and returned to cell naked.  (ANNEXES 26 and 53)   

6.  (S) I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts: 

a.  (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

b.  (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

c.  (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

d.  (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

e.  (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;

f.   (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

g.  (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

h.  (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;

i.   (S) Writing “I am a Rapest”  (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

j.   (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

k.  (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

l.   (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

(ANNEXES 25 and 26)   

7.(U) These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements.  In reaching my findings, I have carefully considered the pre-existing statements of the following witnesses and suspects (ANNEX 26): 

a.    (U) SPC Jeremy Sivits, 372nd MP Company - Suspect

b.    (U) SPC Sabrina Harman, 372nd MP Company – Suspect

c.    (U) SGT Javal S. Davis, 372nd MP Company - Suspect

c.    (U) PFC Lynndie R. England, 372nd MP Company - Suspect

d.    (U) Adel Nakhla, Civilian Translator, Titan Corp., Assigned to the 205th MI Brigade- Suspect

(Names deleted)

8.  (U) In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses (ANNEX 26):

a.  (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b.  (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c.  (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d.  (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e.  (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;

f.   (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

g.  (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

h.  (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

9.  (U) I have carefully considered the statements provided by the following detainees, which under the circumstances I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses:

a.  (U) Amjed Isail Waleed, Detainee # 151365

b.  (U) Hiadar Saber Abed Miktub-Aboodi, Detainee # 13077

c.  (U) Huessin Mohssein Al-Zayiadi, Detainee # 19446

d.  (U) Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, Detainee # 151108

e.  (U) Mohanded Juma Juma (sic), Detainee # 152307

f.   (U) Mustafa Jassim Mustafa, Detainee # 150542

g.  (U) Shalan Said Alsharoni, Detainee, # 150422

h.  (U) Abd Alwhab Youss, Detainee # 150425

i.   (U) Asad Hamza Hanfosh, Detainee # 152529

j.   (U) Nori Samir Gunbar Al-Yasseri, Detainee # 7787

k.  (U) Thaar Salman Dawod, Detainee # 150427

l.   (U) Ameen Sa’eed Al-Sheikh, Detainee # 151362

m. (U) Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh, Detainee # 18470  (ANNEX 26)     

10.  (U) I find that contrary to the provision of AR 190-8, and the findings found in MG Ryder’s Report, Military Intelligence (MI) interrogators and Other US Government Agency’s (OGA) interrogators actively requested that MP guards set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses.  Contrary to the findings of MG Ryder’s Report, I find that personnel assigned to the 372ndMP Company, 800th MP Brigade were directed to change facility procedures to “set the conditions” for MI interrogations.  I find no direct evidence that MP personnel actually participated in those MI interrogations.  (ANNEXES 19, 21, 25, and 26).

11.  (U) I reach this finding based on the actual proven abuse that I find was inflicted on detainees and by the following witness statements.  (ANNEXES 25 and 26): 

     a.  (U) SPC Sabrina Harman, 372nd MP Company, stated in her sworn statement regarding the incident where a detainee was placed on a box with wires attached to his fingers, toes, and penis, “that her job was to keep detainees awake.”  She stated that MI was talking to CPL Grainer.  She stated: “MI wanted to get them to talk.  It is Grainer and Frederick’s job to do things for MI and OGA to get these people to talk.”

     b.  (U) SGT Javal S. Davis, 372nd MP Company, stated in his sworn statement as follows: “I witnessed prisoners in the MI hold section, wing 1A being made to do various things that I would question morally.  In Wing 1A we were told that they had different rules and different SOP for treatment.  I never saw a set of rules or SOP for that section just word of mouth.  The Soldier in charge of 1A was Corporal Granier.  He stated that the Agents and MI Soldiers would ask him to do things, but nothing was ever in writing he would complain (sic).” When asked why the rules in 1A/1B were different than the rest of the wings, SGT Davis stated: “The rest of the wings are regular prisoners and 1A/B are Military Intelligence (MI) holds.” When asked why he did not inform his chain of command about this abuse, SGT Davis stated: “ Because I assumed that if they were doing things out of the ordinary or outside the guidelines, someone would have said something.  Also the wing belongs to MI and it appeared MI personnel approved of the abuse.” SGT Davis also stated that he had heard MI insinuate to the guards to abuse the inmates.  When asked what MI said he stated:  “Loosen this guy up for us.”  Make sure he has abad night.”  “Make sure he gets the treatment.”  He claimed these comments were made to CPL Granier and SSG Frederick.  Finally, SGT Davis stated that (sic): “the MI staffs to my understanding have been giving Granier compliments on the way he has been handling the MI holds.  Example being statements like, “Good job, they’re breaking down real fast. They answer every question.  They’re giving out good information, Finally, and Keep up the good work .  Stuff like that.” 

     c.  (U) SPC Jason Kennel, 372nd MP Company, was asked if he were present when any detainees were abused.  He stated: “I saw them nude, but MI would tell us to take away their mattresses, sheets, and clothes.”  He could not recall who in MI had instructed him to do this, but commented that, “if they wanted me to do that they needed to give me paperwork.”  He was later informed that “we could not do anything to embarrass the prisoners.” 

     d.  (U) Mr. Adel L. Nakhla, a US civilian contract translator was questioned about several detainees accused of rape.  He observed (sic):  “They (detainees) were all naked, a bunch of people from MI, the MP were there that night and the inmates were ordered by SGT Granier and SGT Frederick ordered the guys while questioning them to admit what they did.  They made them do strange exercises by sliding on their stomach, jump up and down, throw water on them and made them some wet, called them all kinds of names such as “gays” do they like to make love to guys, then they handcuffed their hands together and their legs with shackles and started to stack them on top of each other by insuring that the bottom guys penis will touch the guy on tops butt.”     

     e.  (U) SPC Neil A Wallin, 109th Area Support Medical Battalion, a medic testified that:  “Cell 1A was used to house high priority detainees and cell 1B was used to house the high risk or trouble making detainees.  During my tour at the prison I observed that when the male detainees were first brought to the facility, some of them were made to wear female underwear, which I think was to somehow break them down.”     

12.  (U) I find that prior to its deployment to Iraq for Operation Iraqi Freedom, the 320th MP Battalion and the 372nd MP Company had received no training in detention/internee operations.  I also find that very little instruction or training was provided to MP personnel on the applicable rules of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, FM 27-10, AR 190-8, or FM 3-19.40.  Moreover, I find that few, if any, copies of the Geneva Conventions were ever made available to MP personnel or detainees. (ANNEXES 21-24, 33, and multiple witness statements)   

13.(U) Another obvious example of the Brigade Leadership not communicating with its Soldiers or ensuring their tactical proficiency concerns the incident of detainee abuse that occurred at Camp Bucca, Iraq, on May 12, 2003.  Soldiers from the 223rd MP Company reported to the 800th MP Brigade Command at Camp Bucca, that four Military Police Soldiers from the 320th MP Battalion had abused a number of detainees during inprocessing at Camp Bucca.  An extensive CID investigation determined that four soldiers from the 320th MP Battalion had kicked and beaten these detainees following a transport mission from Talil Air Base.  (ANNEXES 34 and 35)   

14.  (U) Formal charges under the UCMJ were preferred against these Soldiers and an Article-32 Investigation conducted by LTC Gentry.  He recommended a general court martial for the four accused, which BG Karpinski supported.  Despite this documented abuse, there is no evidence that BG Karpinski ever attempted to remind 800th MP Soldiers of the requirements of the Geneva Conventions regarding detainee treatment or took any steps to ensure that such abuse was not repeated.  Nor is there any evidence that LTC(P) Phillabaum, the commander of the Soldiers involved in the Camp Bucca abuse incident, took any initiative to ensure his Soldiers were properly trained regarding detainee treatment.  (ANNEXES 35 and 62)           

     

"Liberty has never come from government.  Liberty has always come from the subjects of government. The history of liberty is a history  of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of government power, not the increase of it." http://sedm.org/

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: General: U.S. guilty of torture
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2008, 09:09:35 am »



  Thank you for the post.  The US government could be the evilest (see above article).
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.