Author Topic: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963  (Read 125384 times)

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Online TahoeBlue

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #160 on: December 01, 2014, 12:04:04 pm »
December 1, 1963 - Harry Truman interviewed about late President Kennedy and new President Johnson

One common misconception about the JFK assassination story is that suspicions of conspiracy originated with authors who dreamed up sensational theories. In fact, the controversy over JFK’s death emerged from the circumstances of the crime before any conspiracy theories had been published.

Case in point: On December 1,1963, Richard Dudman, a reporter for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch who was in Dallas, wrote an unusual article about JFK’s assassination. He did not assume the truth of public statements by law enforcement agencies. Rather, he compared those statements to what he had observed, and he asked “Did Assailant Have an Accomplice?”

Dudman was no conspiracy theorist. He went on to a long career in Washington journalism in which his independent reporting later would land him on  President Nixon’s so-called “enemies list.”

John Kelin recently called attention to Dudman’s article at Deep Politics Forum and Phil Dragoo posted the text.

Position of Wound Is Puzzling—Did Assailant Have an Accomplice?


A Washington Correspondent of the Post-Dispatch

WASHINGTON, Nov. 30 [1963]—The exact circumstances of President John F. Kennedy’s assassination may never be explained, despite the several investigations into the case.

The multiplicity of investigations—by Dallas city police, the Secret Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and now, a Presidential commission headed by Chief Justice Earl Warren and including Senators and Representatives—may even impede rather than assist full public understanding of the killing.

Major uncertainties remain to be cleared up, in the view of this reporter, who covered the late President’s Texas trip. This reporter was in a press bus a block from where the President was shot and witnessed the later fatal shooting of the alleged assassin in the basement of the Dallas City Hall and jail.

Doubtful aspects of the case include even the identification of Lee Harvey Oswald as the only killer. Officials here and in Dallas have said repeatedly they believed that Oswald alone shot the President, firing from a sixth-story window of the Texas School Book Depository building.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation, which is expected to supply most of the information on which the seven-man presidential commission will base its findings, has indicated repeatedly that it agrees with Dallas police that the case against Oswald as the sole killer was airtight.

Position of Wound

The strangest circumstance of the shooting, in this reporter’s opinion, is the position of the throat wound, thought to have been caused by the first of two shots that struck Mr. Kennedy.

Hole in Windshield

Another unexplained circumstance is a small hole in the windshield of the presidential limousine. This correspondent and one other man saw the hole, which resembled a bullet hole, as the automobile stood at the hospital emergency entrance while the President was being treated inside the building.

The Secret Service kept possession of the automobile and flew it back to Washington. A spokesman for the agency rejected a request to inspect the vehicle here. He declined to discuss any hole there might be in the windshield.

There have been two other reports of injury to the President’s head. One of the physicians who attended him in Dallas said afterward that he had noticed a small entry wound in the left temple.

Another person, who saw the President’s body a ‘few minutes after he died,’ told the Post-Dispatch he thought he had observed a wound in the President’s forehead. He asked that his name not be used. Reports of the temple and forehead wounds could have referred to the same injury.

The Number of Shots

Uncertainty surrounds the number of shots that were fired. Most witnesses have said they heard three, within a space of about five seconds

If the President was shot from the front as well as from behind, or instead of from behind, the firing could have come from the railroad overpass his automobile was approaching.

The overpass has a gravel walkway between the tracks and a three-foot concrete balustrade that faced the President’s approaching car. At each end is a length of wooden fencing about five feet high.

Silence of Officials

Officials of the Justice Department and the Secret Service declined to say what inspection was made of the overpass before and during the President’s approach toward it.

If there were two snipers, and Mr. Kennedy’s car was caught I the crossfire, the rapid-fire shooting would be more easily explained.
Lyndon B. Johnson Recording 6312.01; December 1963, Tape 1 (December 1963)

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline JT Coyoté

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #161 on: December 01, 2014, 01:07:01 pm »
Here is an interesting take on the Kennedy assassination, with Oswald in a completely positive supporting role within the Kennedy camp... interesting...

Lee Harvey Oswald Proven Innocent, Victim Of CIA Plot, Worked For RFK

by Michael Thomas
November 22nd, 2014
Updated 11/26/2014 at 6:36 pm
Lee Harvey Oswald: Unsung Hero Who Alerted JFK To ‘Assassination Plot’ In Chicago
Framed By The CIA Because He Infiltrated Their Assassination Conspiracy
Oswald Worked Directly For Robert F. Kennedy Who Authorized His Return From The USSR To Conduct Domestic ‘Counterintelligence’

The following narrative concerning the true role of Lee Harvey Oswald in the assassination of John F. Kennedy is both simple and complex.  Simple because Oswald was actually a very young and simple guy who was  grossly misrepresented by the government, law enforcement and the media.  Complex because an extraordinary confluence of circumstances threw him into a literal caldron of festering conflicts and complicated vendettas.

“No good deed goes unpunished” is an adage that is quite applicable to the real story of Lee Oswald.  His idealistic nature and ardent search for his mission in life propelled him into the most dangerous game on the planet in the early 1960s.  Such was his naiveté and quixotic approach to life that Oswald would be thrust onto a battlefield that guaranteed he would be caught in the crossfire.  And so he was on November 24th, 1963... (Read more at the link below...)

Read more:


"The high office of President has been used to foment
a plot to destroy the American's freedom, and before
I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight."

~John F. Kennedy... reportedly, he made this statement while
at Columbia University, 10 days before he was assassinated.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #162 on: December 01, 2014, 01:27:49 pm »
related to previous post:
This indicate rfk knew about Oswald as "his?" agent and did not want him to be too closely looked at ...
Otto Otepka, Robert F. Kennedy, Walter Sheridan, and Lee Oswald
by Joan Mellen, 4 Sep 2007

What Otepka did not know at the time, information that is only emerging now, more than four decades later, is Bobby Kennedy’s extraordinary interest in Lee Harvey Oswald prior to the assassination of his brother. Bobby’s obsession with Otto Otepka suggests that more than a year before John F. Kennedy’s death, he was concerned with Oswald. The curious intervention of the Department of Justice with the Dallas Police in the matter of Oswald’s having fired shots at General Edwin Walker, and Justice’s insistence that the Dallas Police not arrest Oswald, not pursue him, is one example. The telling document disappeared from the Dallas police files, and has not yet re-emerged, but General Walker told his friend Louisiana judge John R. Rarick about it at the time. Near death, Walker urged the House Select Committee on Assassinations to investigate this extraordinary intervention that traces back to Bobby Kennedy.
Beginning on June 1, 1960, Oswald’s background and file began to be examined by employees in the Office of Security at the State Department. On December 5th, 1960, the Intelligence Collection and Distribution Division informed Otepka that he and the Office of Security would handle the official list of Americans who had defected to the Communist bloc. By now, John F. Kennedy had been elected President, but had not yet taken office.

Otepka began the work of determining whether “Lee Oswald” had bearing on any existing security case, either of an applicant for a position with the State Department, or of an existing employee. As he would any file, Otepka distributed the one bearing the name “Oswald” to his subordinates, eight or ten people, he told me, whose work he would then review. He sent Oswald’s name over to the Bureau of Soviet Affairs. It seemed to be all a matter of routine.

Oswald’s file was marked #39-61981. Sitting as it did in the Central File Room of the Office of Security, the “39” denoting an “Intelligence File,” the Oswald material raised questions. As the months passed, more questions surfaced. Otepka examined Oswald’s return from the Soviet Union with the unlikely assistance of a State Department loan. Otepka also pondered the speed with which Oswald’s wife, Marina, was cleared for entrance into the United States. By 1963, Otepka would be wondering why Oswald was issued a passport for travel to Cuba and, seemingly, the Soviet Union, despite a possible “criminal” flag in Oswald’s ONI [Office of Naval Intelligence] file. It was at this time that Otepka’s security safe was burgled and his Oswald file disappeared for good.



Eschewing preliminaries, Bobby came to the point. He was concerned that W.W. Rostow be granted a security clearance for his cabinet appointment  [Notice my previous post regarding Rostow who was a Globalist and previous OSS agent] . On two previous occasions, in 1955 and 1957, Otepka had declined to clear Rostow as a foreign policy expert. There was something not quite right about this man, Otepka thought. He pointed out to Bobby that Air Force Intelligence had voiced doubts about Rostow.

Those people are “nuts!” Bobby blurted out. His anger seemed incommensurate with the issue and surprised Otto Otepka, who was a calm, reasoned man not accustomed to such outbursts of emotion in the course of his work. Otepka’s instincts regarding Rostow were both correct and incorrect. Otepka was incorrect in believing that Rostow was a Communist sympathizer of any kind, despite his family background. He was right that the man was not what he seemed. John F. Kennedy’s inexperience and naivete – he would go on to circumvent the security problem by appointing Rostow to his White House staff – was to emerge when Rostow revealed his true colors.

Before long, Rostow began to beat drums for a ground war in Vietnam, a policy John F. Kennedy did not and would never favor. Rostow’s bleating for war would be heeded to the full once Kennedy was dead and Lyndon Johnson became president. By 1965, Rostow was demanding that 500,000 troops at the least be sent to Vietnam.
In retrospect, it becomes apparent that Bobby was frantic that no one discover that he had involved Oswald in his own operations against Fidel Castro. Up in Jackson, Louisiana, not far from Lafayette, at ease chatting with attendants at the East Louisiana State Hospital at Jackson, and overheard by the medical director of the hospital, Dr. Frank Silva, during the summer of 1963, Oswald had bragged about how he had been enlisted to kill Fidel Castro. Here was the real Oswald, no Marxist, but a government operative. And at every turn Bobby Kennedy hovered near. Garrison knew that Oswald had been up in Clinton and Jackson and might well have uncovered Bobby’s connection to him had Walter Sheridan not been dispatched to New Orleans to turn his investigation upside down.

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JFK Assassination: Jacqueline Kennedy, RFK Did Not Believe Only One Person Assassinated President John F. Kennedy


By Joseph Lazzaro@JosephLazzaro on December 20 2013 1:44 PM

One week after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas, former first lady Jacqueline Kennedy and Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy privately communicated to the leadership of the Soviet Union that they did not believe accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

Jacqueline Kennedy and RFK wanted the Soviet leadership to know that “despite Oswald’s connections to the communist world, the Kennedys believed that the president was felled by domestic opponents.”

Publicly, Jacqueline Kennedy endorsed the Warren Commission’s conclusion that Oswald acted alone, and it was not until 1999 that her and RFK’s private views were made known, when they were revealed by historians Aleksandr Fusenko and Timothy Naftali in their book on the Cuban Missile Crisis, “One Hell of a Gamble: Khrushchev, Castro, and Kennedy, 1958-1964.”

In the book, the historians reported that when Jacqueline Kennedy’s artist friend William Walton traveled to Moscow on a previously scheduled trip a week after President Kennedy’s assassination, Walton carried the above “felled by domestic opponents” message from Jacqueline Kennedy and RFK to another friend of the Kennedy administration, Georgi Bolshakov, a Russian diplomat. Bolshakov served as a back-channel link between the White House and the Kremlin during the October 1962 missile crisis.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5


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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #163 on: December 01, 2014, 02:06:15 pm »
I have heard about this back channel link to the Kremlin before.

If the CIA came to believe that Kennedy was leaking National security classified information to the Communists, that could have motivated the assassination.

Offline JT Coyoté

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #164 on: December 01, 2014, 02:46:29 pm »
I have heard about this back channel link to the Kremlin before.

If the CIA came to believe that Kennedy was leaking National security classified information to the Communists, that could have motivated the assassination.

The understanding that Kennedy voiced in his first address to the press April 27, 1961, made it obvious that he saw the controlled dualistic paradigm for what it is. He stepped above it, an went on the attack directly upon the controlling secret powers at the top who manipulate all sides world wide...

The CIA was created by the National Security Act along with the NSA... No Such Agency and Corporatism's Invisible Army... represent part of the secret paradigm needed to implement the modern divisive take down of the world. These secret societies hidden in plain sight along with MI-5 and 6, the KGB and so on, would naturally be alerted by the content of this fateful speech...

Kennedy, within this introduction to the press had set his agenda... to blow the haze of illusion from the international secrecy system and he was soliciting the help of the press to make it happen... His understanding of the situation was far above mere capitalism/communism sparring... his sword was aimed at the heart of the beast, and they knew it and therefore brought all of their dark forces to bear, the highest to the lowest alike against him.


"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and
the rational mind is a faithful servant. We
have created a society that honors the
servant and has forgotten the gift."

~Albert Einstein

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #165 on: December 02, 2014, 11:14:33 am »
We've waited 50 years for the release of documents that might give us some clarity and tell us exactly what happened - yet that hasn't helped.  The RFK's papers were released a couple of years ago , but were still "classified" and a slow release .... here are some articles regarding that ....
Years after pact to open RFK files, gaps remain

CIA and military remove papers pending review
By Bryan BenderGlobe Staff  December 02, 2014
WASHINGTON — In a secret meeting held in late 1963, a top US diplomat was “particularly interested” in Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy’s views about implementing another blockade of communist Cuba, which new intelligence suggested may have shipped arms to guerrillas in Venezuela.

Kennedy, who was still mourning the assassination a few weeks earlier of his brother, President John F. Kennedy, was not present for the session of the so-called “Special Group” that he chaired to coordinate covert operations. The sensitive discussion was recounted to him in a confidential memo from a top aide

“What measures are we capable of taking and what measures should we take?” Justice Department official John Nolan asked Robert Kennedy in the Dec. 9, 1963 memo, which remained classified until an appeal for its release filed by the Globe was recently granted.

But how exactly — or even whether — Kennedy responded to the query is not revealed.

Despite steps by the National Archives and Kennedy’s heirs to make public dozens of boxes of the attorney general’s “confidential” and “classified” files, numerous memos, reports, and other correspondence have been removed pending review by the CIA and military branches, according to researchers and government archivists. They cited the need to protect national security.

That has included some files about the Special Group’s deliberations between September and December 1963, a highly sensitive period before and after President Kennedy’s assassination in Dallas on Nov. 22, when concerns were highest that a foreign power or CIA-backed Cuban exiles might have been involved or had knowledge about the assassination.

For decades the John F. Kennedy Library and Museum in Dorchester, which is part of the National Archives, and the Kennedy family wrangled with historians and journalists who were anxious to glean new insights from some 60 boxes of unopened RFK files covering his term as the nation’s top law enforcement officer from 1961 to 1964.

That time frame covers a critical period of the Cold War in which the younger Kennedy played an influential role as confidant to the president and overseer of covert plots, including attempts to overthrow Cuba’s president, Fidel Castro.

The controversy over the files appeared to have been settled in 2012 and 2013, when the boxes were opened so “the public will benefit from exploring these documents,” as the chief archivist of the United States, David Ferriero, put it at the time.

But as the yearlong effort by the Globe to win the release of a relatively innocuous two-page memo illustrates, many files are still withheld, which has frustrated researchers and specialists on the government classification system.

“This document contains not a single substantive secret — no names of CIA agents; no sources and methods, no cryptonyms of actual covert operations — nothing that would warrant it being withdrawn and withheld from the file to begin with,” said Peter Kornbluh, a senior analyst and head of the Cuba Documentation Project at the National Security Archive at George Washington University, after reviewing the newly released Nolan memo to Kennedy.

He added: “The fact that the document was withheld in its entirety is an indication of how flawed and arbitrary the secrecy system remains.”

The Kennedy Library, where the former attorney general’s files have resided for more than four decades, was required by a 1973 agreement to get permission from Robert Kennedy’s heirs before making the documents available.

That permission was granted in 2012.
But many files contained secret government documents and the national security agencies that originally classified the information retained the ultimate authority to release them.

The JFK Library has not estimated how many files in Robert Kennedy’s attorney general papers are being withheld, according to director Tom Putnam. But he acknowledged that a “good number” of documents have been withdrawn.

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Mrs. Robert F. Kennedy and the Robert F. Kennedy Family are pleased that the National Archives and Records Administration (“NARA”) will open seven boxes of Robert Kennedy’s papers relating to Cuba in honor of the 50th Anniversary of the Cuban Missile Crisis. We are grateful that NARA, the federal agency that administers the John F. Kennedy Library and all Presidential Libraries, in recognition of the importance of the anniversary, expedited the federal declassification process of these seven boxes. Now, these important historical documents will be able to be discussed as part of the conference organized on October 14, 2012 and they will be available to the general public through the John F. Kennedy Library’s website effective Thursday, October 11.
This Statement also addresses inaccurate reports that have claimed that the Robert F. Kennedy Family has restricted public access to the RFK Collection. In fact, the Robert F. Kennedy Family is committed to disclosure of the papers but is required to follow a federal declassification process prior to release of any materials that are marked “classified” or “confidential”.


However, 62 boxes from the 1961 to 1964 time period are marked “classified” or “confidential” and are in a Federal declassification process. While NARA has done an initial declassification of these boxes, other federal agencies such as the State Department, Justice Department, and the CIA, are still reviewing the materials. When the federal declassification process is substantially complete, the RFK Family will then review the boxes.

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National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 395
Washington, DC, October 12, 2012 – On the 50th anniversary of the Cuban Missile Crisis, new documents from the Robert Kennedy papers declassified yesterday and posted today by the National Security Archive reveal previously unknown details of the Kennedy administration's secret effort to find an accord with Cuba that would remove the Soviet missiles in return for a modus vivendi between Washington and Havana.
For more than 40 years, the details of Kennedy's approach to Castro remained Top Secret. In 2004, based on declassified documents found in the archives of the Brazilian foreign ministry and the Excomm tapes, George Washington University historian James Hershberg published the first comprehensive account of the furtive diplomatic initiative in the Journal of Cold War Studies (Part 1, Part 2). An abbreviated account of the Castro approach, written by Peter Kornbluh, appears in the November 2012 issue of Cigar Aficionado. The story is also recounted in Kornbluh's forthcoming book (with William LeoGrande), Talking with Castro: The Untold History of Dialogue between the United States and Cuba.

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Declassified Papers Provide New Window Into RFK’s Role As JFK’s Closest Adviser
 By Sacha Pfeiffer and Lynn Jolicoeur October 11, 2012

BOSTON — Ever since Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1968, researchers have been trying to get access to thousands of classified documents about his role in the Cuban Missile Crisis, which happened 50 years ago this month.

And now they’re getting their wish. On Thursday the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum released seven boxes of RFK’s papers on Cuba from when he was attorney general.


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Kennedys keep vise-grip on RFK papers
By Bryan Bender 
 Globe Staff / August 5, 2012
Scholars and government officials believe the 62 boxes of files covering Kennedy’s three years as attorney general during his brother’s administration could provide insights into critical Cold War decisions on issues ranging from the Cuban missile crisis to Vietnam. Yet the Kennedy family, led by Robert’s widow, Ethel, has rarely permitted even limited access to the papers. Their expansive control of the RFK archive, which extends to dozens of Pentagon, State Department, and CIA documents, stems from a controversial agreement reached with the National Archives following Robert Kennedy’s assassination in 1968.

Numerous government archivists and historians maintain the family should never have been granted oversight of the official documents — only the files containing private information, such as correspondence with Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and a collection of materials involving famous family acquaintances like Frank Sinatra.

“It was inappropriate [for the National Archives] to allow it,” said William J. Leonard, who recently retired as chief overseer of the government classification system. “Classified information by definition is information that is under the government’s control. ”Put another way, “Ethel has been given control of documents that she couldn’t even legally read because she didn’t have a security clearance,” said a former National Archives official who had the authority to handle top secret information regarding the RFK papers.

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RFK’s papers: Finally open to the public
December 08, 2013
The records have long been stored at the Kennedy Library, but RFK’s widow, Ethel, and some of her children had sought to maintain family control over which ones would be shared with the public — to the annoyance of library officials. But on Thursday, the last of Robert Kennedy’s papers as attorney general were made available to researchers. In total, the collection takes up 62 boxes — four of which are deemed personal and therefore closed, according to the Kennedy Library website.
An independent archivist, not the Kennedy family, decided which papers were personal. According to Tom Putnam, the director of the library, they generally involved notes about family members, including some who are still alive. Putnam said he hopes that some day these files, too, will be opened to the public. He also says there are documents scattered within the rest of the boxes that are categorized as classified, but researchers will be able to appeal to federal agencies for permission to see them. These decisions are in line with library policies.

The papers are a treasure-trove of previously secret information — containing files on everything from Operation Mongoose, a CIA plan to assassinate Fidel Castro, to civil rights battles in the American South. Both the library and the family should be applauded for opening them to the public

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #166 on: December 02, 2014, 11:57:27 am »
Oh Bill Moyers and the Bubble top and LBJ Ducked:

"Get that goddamned "bubble [top] off unless it's pouring rain" said Bill Moyers just hours before John Kennedy's head was blown off in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Moyers, doing advance work for Lyndon Johnson in Austin, was speaking to a Ms. Harris who told the Secret Service. "Goddamn" was a favorite word of Moyer's boss Lyndon Johnson and the "bubbletop" was a removable, black protective top for the president's limousine.

While the bubble-top was not bullet-proof it was opague and would have prevented a sniper in a tall building from getting a clear 'head-shot".

After the murder of JFK, Bill Moyers assumed a lot of power as a very young and inner circle aide to Lyndon Johnson. One of the things that attracted a young Bill Moyers to Lyndon Johnson was that LBJ exuded "power," not that LBJ was a decent, honest and likeable man.

In the research for my New York Times Bestselling book- The Man Who Killed Kennedy- the case Against LBJ I had the opportunity to examine Moyers.

The reality of LBJ was that he was a mean, cruel, sadistic man whose corruption was of Biblical proportions. LBJ also had a spectacular hatred of the Kennedys. But he had power and that is what a young Bill Moyers was attracted to. In fact Moyers likes to tell the story of how as a college student he would go to Sunday brunch at the Johnson house where he would mingle with LBJ's close friend and neighbor FBI director J. Edgar Hoover, LBJ's mentors Sen. Richard Russell and Sam Rayburn, the "powerful" Speaker of the House.

The Secret Service told author Ron Kessler that LBJ was having sex with 5 of his 8 secretaries.

Old time lawyers in Austin will tell you that before LBJ would hire a secretary he would ask about her "Does she shuck her drawers?"

A good question to ask is why has Bill Moyers not written a book about his times with Lyndon Johnson? Moyers has said that he was attracted to LBJ's power. Post JFK assassination Moyers (in his twenties) immediately becomes one of LBJ's closest, most powerful aides. This seems like a ripe topic for an interesting book. Maybe Moyers has sat on this book because if he wrote it he would have to tell the truth about LBJ's fantastic corruption, scary mental instabilities, hatred of the Kennedys, his sadism, his cruelty, his beyond outrageous behavior.

Bill Moyers is obviously a man not ready to deal with the terrible truth about Lyndon Johnson. A prime example of this was in 2003 when the History Channel ran a series on the JFK assassination that dealt with the role of Lyndon Johnson in the murder of John Kennedy. It was called The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Guilty Men, episodes 7, 8 and 9.

Moyers, Valenti and Gerald Ford and the Johnson family went ballistic and demanded that the series, one of the most insightful ever on the JFK assassination, be ripped down off of TV. The History Channel in a spectacularly craven act of folding to political pressure complied.

The truth had hit home.

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Research indicates radio host Bill Moyers was complicit in JFK's killing

"The "bubble-top" had been removed from the presidential limousine at Love Field, as requested by Bill Moyers, LBJ's long-time past and future aide." "Moyers had been on the phone to Ms. Harris, informing her that the President did not want the bubble top. He told Harris to "get that God-damned bubble off unless it's pouring rain." "Moyers was not JFK's assistant . . . he was of course, actually one of Lyndon Johnson's longtime assistants." This is all documented in Phillip F. Nelson's "LBJ - The Mastermind of JFK's Assassination".

 Nelson goes on to state that "such gratuitous profanity by an ordained Baptist minister (Moyers) is a little odd in the context of this situation, considering that it had been raining all morning. It begs the question of whether Moyers was the real initiator of the request, or whether he was simply passing on a demand from his boss, LBJ, known to be habitually profane and strident in practically all situations (a general exception existed whenever cameras were near, of course, in which case a broad smile replaced his scornful gaze. All things considered, it can be assumed that Moyers was merely mouthing words originally screamed by Lyndon B. Johnson, in comparable stridency."

When was the last time ANY member of the CFR said anything CLOSE to the truth on the JFK Assassination?
Started by  Guest_Robert Morrow_* , Sep 16 2010 06:50 AM

Question: When was the last time any member of the Council on Foreign Relations said anything CLOSE to resembling the TRUTH in the JFK assassination? I define "truth" as being that John Kennedy was slaughtered by an elite domestic political conspiracy.

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LBJ was 6' 4"" but you can't find him in the photos even though you can see Ladybird!
Proof LBJ Ducked
Published on Jan 17, 2014

I spent some more time with the Altgens photo, and with using some geometry-checking with the JFK limo as a stand-in for the LBJ limo, I believe that there is strong evidence that LBJ was ducking by at least the second shot (probably earlier). No one else is reacting in a similar manner.
LBJ Ducked Before First Shot at JFK
Why can't we see LBJ?

[ Later I guess to keep Youngblood ( the SS man who was in the car with LBJ at the time) quiet and happy ... As Prez he gives him a medal ...
"For saving his life" ]
21 - Remarks at the Presentation of an Exceptional Service Award to Agent Rufus W. Youngblood of the Secret Service
December 4, 1963

Mr. Secretary, Mr. Youngblood, Mrs. Youngblood, members of the Youngblood family, ladies and gentlemen:

There is no more heroic act than offering your life to save another, and in that awful moment of confusion when all about him were losing their heads, Rufus Youngblood never lost his. Without hesitation, he volunteered his life to save mine. Nothing makes a man feel better than being an American and to be witness to this kind of noble patriotism.

Rufus, there is no prouder person here this morning than I. You are a brave soldier in the highest American tradition of love for country and for duty. You are a proud son of Georgia. You are an excellent example of all the honored and brave and dedicated and diligent men and the women who work with them who make up what we proudly call the United States Secret Service. A more dedicated group of men I have never known from the Chief to the most humble employee.

I am glad to know that Chief Rowley has made it possible for you to continue to serve the President as you did the Vice President, and I know in so doing that I will have one of the most noble and most able public servants I have ever known.

Thank you.

Note: The ceremony was held at 10:30 a.m. in the Rose Garden at the White House. The President's opening words "Mr. Secretary" referred to Secretary of the Treasury Douglas Dillon. Later he referred to James J. Rowley, Chief, United States Secret Service.
The citation accompanying the award reads as follows:

"This Award is made in recognition of Agent Youngblood's outstanding courage and voluntary risk of personal safety in protecting the Vice President of the United States at the time of President John F. Kennedy's assassination in Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963.

"Mr. Youngblood was riding in the front seat of the Vice President's limousine within close proximity to the President's limousine when the assassination occurred. Upon hearing the first shot, Mr. Youngblood instantly vaulted across the front seat of the car, pushed the Vice President to the floor, and shielded the Vice President's body with his own. His prompt response in the face of great danger and his readiness to sacrifice his life to save the Vice President were in the highest traditions of the Secret Service. His valor and example make him a worthy recipient of this Award."

The text of the introductory remarks by Secretary Dillon, who read the citation, was also released

Accompanied by Secret Service agent Rufus Youngblood (left), Vice President Lyndon Johnson and U.S. Rep. Homer Thornberry leave Parkland Hospital in Dallas after the death of Kennedy.


Even with the radio playing, they all heard the first shot.

Kivett’s syrupy accent became dense and clipped: “What the hell was that?”

In seconds, carnage erupted in the presidential limousine as the president and Connally were hit by gunfire. Looking at the vice president’s car, Kivett saw the blur of Youngblood’s dark suit as he spun left, grabbed Johnson’s lapels and flung him to the floorboard screaming, “Get down! Get down!” Youngblood lunged at Lady Bird and Yarborough as he climbed over the seat and covered the body of the vice president.
Eyewitness to the Death of a President"

Gary Goettling

Georgia Tech  Spring, 1992.  15-22.

Posted on the Kennedy Assassination Home Page with the permission of Gary Goettling.

     Rufus W. Youngblood has more than a passing interest in the assassination of President John F.
Kennedy.  Like millions of americans, the 1950 industrial engineering graduate remembers exactly
where he was and what he was doing on March 22, 1963.  He was riding in a motorcade in downtown

     As the special agent in charge of the vice presidential Secret Service detail, Youngblood
rode in an open Lincoln convertible with Lyndon Johnson, Lady Bird Johnson, Texas Sen. Ralph
Yarborough and a driver.  Only a Secret Service follow-up car separated him from the president's
limousine, and the violence that unfolded there with graphic finality on a warm Dallas afternoon
28 years ago.

     Who killed Kennedy?  It's a question Youngblood has been asked hundreds of times, and
his firm answer defies popular opinion:  "Lee Harvey Oswald."

     "I support the findings of the Warren Commission.  (Conspiracy theorist) have had
investigation after investigation, and nobody has come up with anything concrete.  Nothing."


Rufus W. Youngblood, 72, Agent Who Guarded Johnson

Published: October 4, 1996

Rufus W. Youngblood, the Secret Service agent who flung himself over the front seat and used his body to shield Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson during the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963, died on Wednesday at a hospice near his home in Savannah, Ga. He was 72 and was deputy director of the Secret Service when he retired in 1971
As it turned out, Mr. Johnson was never in real danger from the gunfire trained on the President two cars ahead in the motorcade through Dallas. But at the time Mr. Youngblood, who was riding in the front seat of the Vice President's limousine, did not now that.

| - - - -

Youngblood was a good ol boy ...

{interesting about Thornberry who was also in the car with LBJ: ]
Thornberry was elected to Congress and served from January 3, 1949 until his resignation fourteen years later. According to Dick Russell (The Man Who Knew Too Much), Lyndon B. Johnson described Thornberry as "my congressman". Thornberry is quoted in the book as saying: "It's just unbelievable how many things he (Johnson) and Mrs. Johnson did to help us when we went to Washington".

When John F. Kennedy offered Lyndon B. Johnson the post of Vice President, one of the first people he contacted was Homer Thornberry. He replied: "I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. Tell Jack (Kennedy) anything you want, but don't take it." However, soon afterwards he phoned Johnson back to say he changed his mind and that he should accept the post.

On 5th June, 1963, Thornberry attended a meeting with John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, John Connally, Fred Korth and Clifton C. Carter at the Cortez Hotel in El Paso, to discuss the president's forthcoming trip to Dallas. Thornberry was in the presidential motorcade with Johnson when Kennedy was assassinated.

A few days after the assassination Johnson phoned Homer Thornberry and invited him to "come down and have a drink with me". The two men had two meetings in December, 1963. In a taped White House conversation on 17th December, 1963, Lyndon Johnson admitted that he went to parties held at the house of Bobby Baker with Homer Thornberry and Walter Jenkins. On 20th December, Thornberry resigned his congressional seat. The following day Johnson appointed Thornberry as U.S. District Court Judge for the Western District of Texas. This enabled him to replace R. E. Thompson as the judge in the case of Richard Case Nagell.
Johnson Conversation with Homer Thornberry on Dec 03, 1963 (K6312.03)
December 17, 1963
Homer Thornberry, Marie Fehmer (K6312.09)
The Suite 8F Group and the Call for Kennedy’s Hit
Kennedy Assassination
— 03 December 2013
The Suite 8F Group was instrumental in plotting, as well as coordinating, the assassination of President Kennedy. Two incidental moles, John Connally and Lyndon Baines Johnson, were directly involved in the assassination on behalf of the Suite8F Houston, TX,-based cabal. The bribery and racketeering trial in Washington, D.C., regarding the investigation of the acts of Bobby Baker was getting too close to home for the cabal’s comfort.

Baker was a member of the cabal. The prosecution was headed by Robert F. Kennedy and supported by Jack Kennedy. Moreover, both these men wanted rid of the clique’s D.C. mole, Lyndon Baines Johnson. Therefore, Mr. Kennedy had to be eliminated.

While LBJ and John Connally are culpable for the murder of this then sitting President, in fact, they are relatively low-level operatives. Even so, identifying them, confirming their role, is of utmost value in this investigation, because it leads directly to the ultimate criminals or near ultimate ones (admittedly, there are levels even higher than the Suite 8F Group, which are criminally associated).
Post- late 1950s members of the group include the following:
John Connally, Governor of Texas and former Secretary of the Navy and Treasury
Lyndon B. Johnson, VP and the President
•Alvin Wirtz and Homer Thornberry (lawyers closely associated)

[ This group is closely associated with Standard Oil and W. Averell Harriman ...  his daughter had an interesting Obit ...]
Kathleen Mortimer, Rich and Adventurous, Dies at 93
Published: February 19, 2011

Her grandfather ran a railroad, and her father was an ambassador, a governor and a cabinet secretary. She married the grandson of an oil baron at her family’s 25,000-acre estate.

She was a first-rate skier and equestrienne, riding magnificent cavalry horses that were a gift from Stalin. She knew well the whirl of dances, luncheons and teas that were traditional for women of her time and station.

And yet ...

Her marriage, in 1947, took place when she was nearly 30, an unconventional choice for any woman of the era. Before that, she had worked as a journalist and had witnessed the aftermath of one of the most notorious massacres of World War II.

Kathleen Harriman Mortimer, a daughter of W. Averell Harriman, died on Thursday at 93. The death, at her cottage in Arden, N.Y., was confirmed by her son David Mortimer. Mrs. Mortimer also had a home on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

Though she was a far less visible public presence than her father — a United States ambassador to Moscow and London, a governor of New York and a secretary of commerce under President Harry S. Truman — Mrs. Mortimer was quietly accomplished throughout her life and, when she could be, graciously subversive.
Kathleen Lanier Harriman was born on Dec. 7, 1917, the younger of two daughters of Mr. Harriman and his first wife, Kitty Lanier Lawrance. Her paternal grandfather, E. H. Harriman, head of the Union Pacific Railroad, had left a fortune estimated at $70 million to $100 million. Her parents divorced in 1929.
Her roommate there was Pamela Digby Churchill, the daughter-in-law of Prime Minister Winston Churchill. As befits a tightly knit society in which people were separated by far fewer than six degrees, Pamela Churchill would, years later, become Averell Harriman’s third wife.

In 1943, Mr. Harriman was named the United States ambassador to Moscow, and Miss Harriman joined him there. She learned Russian; was the official hostess at her father’s diplomatic functions; and traveled with him in 1945 to the Yalta conference, at which President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin hammered out Europe’s postwar reorganization. (On their return to the United States after the war, Stalin gave Kathleen and her father two of his finest horses as a going-away present.)
Her time there included a far darker obligation. In 1944, as her father’s representative, she accompanied more than a dozen foreign correspondents into the Katyn forest, in western Russia.

The forest had been the site of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers earlier in the war. Now the journalists had been taken there to witness autopsies of the exhumed bodies, part of a Russian disinformation campaign to ensure that Germany would be blamed for the killings.

Aided by many unwitting news organizations, the myth that the Nazis had carried out the killings endured for years. In fact, the massacre had been perpetrated by the Russians, something that was admitted only decades later.

In 1947, Miss Harriman married Stanley Grafton Mortimer Jr., an heir to the Standard Oil fortune. Afterward, she largely dropped from public view, though her private life was not without turbulence.

In 1969, Mr. Mortimer, who suffered from manic-depression, shot himself in what apparently was a suicide attempt. He survived, and the couple remained married until his death, at 86, in 1999.

In 1994, as was widely reported, a group of Averell Harriman’s heirs, including Mrs. Mortimer, sued Pamela Harriman and several associates, charging that they had squandered tens of millions of dollars of their inheritance through high-risk investments. Mrs. Harriman, the United States ambassador to France under President Bill Clinton, had married Mr. Harriman in 1971; Mr. Harriman died in 1986.

[ Harriman was the BIG Globalist linked with Rockefeller and Rothschild - Was big in Bilderberg and EU creation :  He was also the Amb. at Large for JFK and LBJ: ]

Well something I've wondered about .... ( Also how the French Rothschild's survived .... )

"The documentary claimed that officials in post-War France scrubbed the celebrities' records of Nazi links and invented ties to the Resistance movement in order to help rebuild the country's reputation"
Édouard Alphonse James de Rothschild (24 February 1868 – 30 June 1949) was an aristocrat, French financier and a member of the prominent Rothschild banking family of France.
He was raised in a Paris mansion at 2 rue Saint-Florentin that is now home to the United States Embassy as well as at Château de Ferrières in the country.
Effects of the German occupation, 1940-1944

The rise to power of the Adolf Hitler National Socalist party in Germany and the subsequent Anschluss of Austria to Germany saw a wave of Jews, and others the Nazis labeled as "undesirables," seek refuge in France. Most of these people escaped with little more than a suitcase of clothes. In March 1939, Édouard's wife Germaine converted an old house near the Château de Ferrières into a hostel for some 150 of these displaced persons. However, with the onset of World War II and the subsequent German occupation of France in 1940, Édouard de Rothschild and his family themselves chose to flee the country. In 1939, Édouard's son Guy joined the French Army and daughter Jacqueline escaped with her husband Gregor Piatigorsky to the United States. Before leaving, Édouard de Rothschild tried to hide as much of his valuable art collection as possible, on the grounds of the Haras de Meautry farm and at his Château de Reux. The Nazis confiscated his collection.[1]

With his wife and second daughter Bethsabée, he safely left France and they made their way to Lisbon, Portugal from where they were able to go by plane to New York City.

With the Allied liberation of France in 1944, Édouard de Rothschild and his wife returned home where he died in Paris in 1949 at the age of eighty-one. His son Guy took over as head of the family bank


The George C. Marshall Center

The George C. Marshall Center
will exceptionally open on Sunday, September 21, 2014 from 10 am to 5 pm (last entry at 4.30 pm) for European Heritage Days.
 Address: 2, rue Saint Florentin, 75001 Paris, France

 The “hôtel particulier” (meaning “private residence”) known today as Hôtel de Talleyrand was built between 1767 and 1769 for Louis Phélypeaux, Comte de Saint-Florentin, Marquis then Duc de la Vrillière (1705-1777). As State Minister, Minister in Charge of the King’s House, then Minister of Foreign Affairs, and personal friend of the King, Saint-Florentin was one of the most influential figures of the reign of Louis XV.


In 1838, baron James-Mayer de Rothschild bought the mansion from Talleyrand’s niece, the duchesse de Dino, who had just inherited it. The Hôtel de Talleyrand remained the property of the Rothschild family for over a hundred years, until 1950. The Rothschild family lived here until the invasion of Paris by the German occupying army forced them to leave France. During this long period of time, major construction and decoration works were undertaken, particularly with the extension of the central part of the mansion, between 1868 and 1871, under the supervision of architect Léon Ohnet (1813-1874).

 During World War II, the hôtel particulier was requisitioned by the Ministry of the Navy of the Vichy Government and, during the Nazi Occupation, it housed the headquarters of the German Naval Forces (Kriegsmarine).
A footbridge was constructed above the Rue Saint-Florentin to facilitate crossings between the mansion and the main building of the Ministry of the Navy located on the other side of the street. It is also here that, on August 25, 1944, the troops of General Leclerc arrested the staff officers of the German Navy. After the Liberation, the mansion was used by the Vice-Premier of the Provisional Government, thus housing the offices of Maurice Thorez.

[ Birth of the EU was here: ]

 After World War II, the U.S. Department of State rented, from 1947 until 1950, then bought, in 1950, the Hôtel de Talleyrand from the Rothschild family, to serve as the home of the American Administration of the European Recovery Program, better known as the Marshall Plan (1947-1952).
It is in this mansion that Ambassador W. Averell Harriman, the US Representative of the President at the head of the American Administration of the Marshall Plan in Europe, gathered representatives of the 17 participating European countries[/b].

 From 1981 until 1984, under the supervision of the Office of Foreign Buildings Operations of the U.S. Department of State and of expert Robert Carlhian, architects Hugh Newell Jacobsen and J. Bruce Smith conducted major renovation works . Then, and until 2007, the hôtel particulier was home to several offices of the American Embassy to France, including Consular Services.

 From 2000 until 2010, the Hôtel de Talleyrand again underwent major restoration work, managed by the U.S. Department of State in collaboration with the World Monuments Fund. French experts of 18th and 19th century historic decors Robert Carlhian and Fabrice Ouziel undertook extensive historical research. The restoration, accomplished by over 150 French artisans, was financed by private funds from both sides of the Atlantic. The Hôtel de Talleyrand was inaugurated again in 2010.

The name William Averell Harriman turns up behind world political scenes more frequently than any other member of The Order. Possibly as because Harriman is a remarkably active man. Born in 1891, graduated Yale 1913, Harriman is still newsworthy in the 1980s. In June 1983 Harriman had a private meeting with Yuri Andropov in Moscow and in December 1983, at 92, broke his right leg while swimming in the sea off Barbados. Whatever else we say here about Averell, we must record his truly remarkable energy and longevity.

In official Harriman biographies, however, there is no mention of The Order, Skull & Bones, or the Russell Trust. Like other initiates Harriman has carefully expunged membership from the public record. We have not yet determined if this membership was ever made known to the FBI for use in background checks needed for government positions, or maybe no one ever bothered to ask for a background check on Averell Harriman.

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5


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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #167 on: December 04, 2014, 03:03:36 pm »
Colonel Mandel House connect to Lee Harvey Oswald friend George de Morenschildt...

The de Mohrenschildts were major players in the global oil business since the beginning of the twentieth century, and their paths crossed with the Rockefellers and other key pillars of the petroleum establishment. George de Mohrenschildt’s uncle and father ran the Swedish Nobel Brothers Oil Company’s operations in Baku, in Russian Azerbaijan on the southwestern coast of the Caspian Sea. This was no small matter. In the early days of the twentieth century, the region held roughly half of the world’s known oil supply. By the start of World War I, every major oil interest in the world, including the Rockefellers’ Standard Oil, was scrambling for a piece of Baku’s treasure or intriguing to suppress its competitive potential. (Today, ninety years later, they are at it again.)

In 1915, the czar’s government dispatched a second uncle of George de Mohrenschildt, the handsome young diplomat Ferdinand von Mohrenschildt, to Washington to plead for American intervention in the war – an intervention that might rescue the czarist forces then being crushed by the invading German army.  President Woodrow Wilson had been reelected partly on the basis of having kept America out of the war. But as with all leaders, he was surrounded by men with their own agendas. A relatively close-knit group embodying the nexus of private capital and intelligence-gathering inhabited the highest levels of the Wilson administration. Secretary of State Robert Lansing was the uncle of a diplomat-spy by the name of Allen Dulles. Wilson’s closest adviser, “Colonel” Edward House, was a Texan and an ally of the ancestors of James A. Baker III, who would become Poppy Bush’s top lieutenant. Czarist Russia then owed fifty million dollars to a Rockefeller-headed syndicate. Keeping an eye on such matters was the U.S. ambassador to Russia, a close friend of George Herbert Walker’s from St. Louis.

Once the United States did enter the war, Prescott Bush’s father, Samuel Bush, was put in charge of small arms production. The Percy Rockefeller-headed Remington Arms Company got the lion’s share of the U.S. contracts. It sold millions of dollars worth of rifles to czarist forces, while it also profited handsomely from deals with the Germans.

In 1917, Ferdinand von Mohrenschildt’s mission to bring America into the world war was successful on a number of levels. Newspaper clippings of the time show him to be an instant hit on the Newport, Rhode Island, millionaires’ circuit. He was often in the company of Mrs. J. Borden Harriman, of the family then befriending Prescott Bush and about to hire Prescott’s future father-in-law, George Herbert Walker. Not long after that, Ferdinand married the step-granddaughter of President Woodrow Wilson.

In quick succession, the United States entered World War I, and the newlywed Ferdinand unexpectedly died. The von Mohrenschildt family fled Russia along with the rest of the aristocracy. Emanuel Nobel sold half of the Baku holdings to Standard Oil of New Jersey, with John D. Rockefeller Jr. personally authorizing the payment of $11.5 million. Over the next couple of decades, members of the defeated White Russian movement, which opposed the Bolsheviks and fought the Red Army from the 1917 October Revolution until 1923, would find shelter in the United States, a country that shared the anti-Communist movement’s ideological sentiments.

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #168 on: December 04, 2014, 09:54:56 pm »

Title: Meeting with W. Averell Harriman, 9:18AM

Date(s) of Materials: 1961 March 29

Joseph Trento, The Secret History of the CIA, pg 334-5:


Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960,
 President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate “with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of
 all aspects of United States policy.” By 1963, according to [Pentagon aide William R.] Corson, Harriman was running “Vietnam without consulting
 the president or the attorney general.”

The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, “Kenny O’Donnell (JFK’s appointments  secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president.  He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.”

This has always struck me as hinky.

Max Holland's The Assassination Tapes, pg 57:
At 6:55 p.m. Johnson has a ten minute meeting with Senator J. William Fulbright and diplomat W. Averell Harriman to discuss possible foreign involvement in the assassination, especially in light of the two-and-a-half-year sojourn of Lee Harvey Oswald [in Russia]...

Harriman, a U.S. ambassador to Moscow during WWII, is an experienced interpreter of Soviet machinations and offers the president the unanimous view of the U.S. government's top Kremlinologists.  None of them believe the Soviets have a hand in the assassination, despite the Oswald association.


From Spanning the Century: The Life of W. Averell Harriman, by Rudy Abramson, pgs 624-5, 630 emphasized:


Some of Averell's friends, including [Roger] Hilsman, who had heard Bob Kennedy muse about the possibility of Harriman as secretary of state, thought there was still a chance that Averell might yet get the Foggy Bottom job he long coveted.  But that had been before the notorious coup cable [243 authorizing Diem coup 8/24/63].

Though the President had avoided criticism of Averell in the episode, Harriman knew Kennedy's confidence in him was shaken.   After working his way to the seventh floor, he was suddenly viewed as a problem.  Almost overnight, he looked ten years older.  Privately, the President and the attorney general talked of finding a way to rehabilitate him, to find a job that would get him out of the Vietnam business.  There was a need to put more emphasis on hemispheric matters, and the President thought that one way to solve two problems might be to create a new post of undersecretary for Latin American affairs for him.

As deeply as the administration had involved itself in the machinations against Diem, Kennedy still appeared stunned when the long-anticipated coup ended with the assassination of Diem and Nhu on November 1.  The United States could technically claim that it had been a Vietnamese affair; but the administration had conditioned the atmosphere, beginning with the Harriman-Hilsman cable to Lodge.

By that time, Averell was already turning more attention to hemispheric problems.  The afternoon of November 22 was set a side for a meeting with oil company executives about the future of their contracts with the government in Argentina.  Beforehand, he went to a Hilsman luncheon for a delegation of politicians from the Phillipines.  He was finishing his dessert and talking with
Senator Frank Church about extremism in American politics when Church was called to the telephone.  A minute later, the
senator rushed back into the room, his face ashen.  The President had been shot, and was feared dead.  There was a moment
of silence, and then turmoil, shouted questions, and people getting up from the table to head for telephones.  Averell hadn't heard;
and when Church repeated the news, his reaction was that it couldn't be true.  "No, sir, I'm not joking," said Church.

Averell heard the shattering confirmation of Kennedy's death in George Ball's office moment later.  So undone that he could
only think of nothing else to do, he convened his oil meeting, but it lasted only a few minutes.  When an executive tastelessly
suggested an urgent approach to the new President to write the government of Argentina in behalf of American oil interests, he
adjourned in disgust.

He spent the afternoon helping Ball, who was, if anyone truly was, running the United States government, since Rusk and
several other Cabinet members were airborne, coming home after turning back from a flight to the Far East.  As darkness fell,
Averell drove out to Andrews Air Force Base with Ball and Alexis Johnson, joining the official mourning party standing silently
on the floodlit ramp as the President's casket was lowered from the rear door of Air Force One.

The following days were a blur of meetings and trips to airports to greet delegations arriving from all over the world for the state
funeral.  While Rusk and Ball attended to ceremonial duties, Harriman sat down with visitors who brought urgent diplomatic
problems with them--an insurgency developing against the government in the Dominican Republic, intelligence warnings of
political upheaval in Brazil, and signs of new trouble between India and Pakistan over Kashmir...

...After Johnson arrived from Dallas with Kennedy's body, Averell had been one of the first to see him and offer to stay as long
as he was wanted and serve wherever he was needed...

That's funny, Harriman never mentioned to his "authorized biographer" Abramson any of that bit about consensus among Soviet experts re Soviet innocence. Out of the Foreign Service only a month before JFK was murdered, George Kennan was up in Princeton with his new boss Robert Openheimer...

From George F. Kennan: An American Life, by John Lewis Gaddis, pg 557

| - - - -
Interesting obit on net wealth (WE DON"T KNOW !!!) ...
Fortune Estimated at $50-$100 Million : Wife to Get Most of Harriman's Wealth
September 23, 1986 |United Press International

WASHINGTON — Former New York Gov. W. Averell Harriman left the bulk of his wealth to his widow, Pamela Digby Harriman, a will filed in a northern Virginia county showed today. Harriman is the mother of Winston Spencer Churchill II.

Averell Harriman, heir to one of the nation's largest family fortunes, did not disclose the value of his estate in the will. The 50-page document, written Sept. 12, 1984, and updated Aug. 7, 1985, was filed in Loudoun County Circuit Court on Aug. 8.

He owned a 60-acre estate, known as Willow Oaks, in Loudoun County horse and fox hunt country. He bequeathed to his wife all of his real estate, including homes in Yorktown Heights, N.Y., Sun Valley, Ida., and Washington's Georgetown section.

Harriman's first husband was Randolph Churchill, son of the former prime minister
. After their divorce she was married to Leland Hayward, actor's agent. She and Harriman were married in 1971 after his second wife died. She is 66.
the son of a multimillionaire railroad magnate, and his personal fortune was estimated at between $50 million and $100 million.

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #169 on: April 15, 2016, 02:01:23 pm »
Ted Cruz Imagine - 2016

not to be forgotten: JFK ,,,,

Rafael Cruz, A Pro-Batista, CIA Connected Cuban In Exile? Really Ted?
 April 12, 2016• Dianne Marshall•   
Oswald with Cruz Passing Out the Famous “Hands Off Cuba” Pamphlets. Oswald Was Arrested.

Rafael Cruz to the far left handing out pamphlets.

In an article written by David Zephyr, he  has exposed the connection between Rafael Cruz the father of candidate Ted Cruz and the Bush oil connection.  Interesting facts have arisen connecting him to Lee Harvey Oswald. Interesting  that Mr. Zephr has discovered the CIA connection that many of us have suspected of Rafael Cruz for a long time.

“I have written several DU’ers by private email over the last months about my research into Ted Cruz’s father’s inconsistent personal histories he has provided over the years. Rafael Cruz’s stories didn’t add up. Then there was the Dallas / New Orleans connection…and then Rafael’s fleeing to Canada and disappearing for years before returning to the US where his son wound up employed by the Bush Crime Family. When I found the real timetable of Rafael’s actual where-about between New Orleans and Dallas though the rubble of his many lies about his past, I began to write emails to many knowledgeable about the assassination. As I a am old and almost blind, it is hard for me to post here at the DU anymore, but this is something I’ve been quietly working on since the Summer of 2015.

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #170 on: January 29, 2017, 12:26:43 pm »
[ See Movie "Papa" Hemingway got info about Hoover from an Army guy ... ]

Fresh claim over role the FBI played in suicide of Ernest Hemingway

Friend reveals regret for dismissing writer's fear that he was being targeted by J Edgar Hoover

Now, however, Hemingway's friend and collaborator over the last 13 years of his life has suggested another contributing factor, previously dismissed as a paranoid delusion of the Nobel prize-winning writer. It is that Hemingway was aware of his long surveillance by J Edgar Hoover's FBI, who were suspicious of his links with Cuba, and that this may have helped push him to the brink
Writing in the New York Times on the 50th anniversary of Hemingway's death, AE Hotchner, author of Papa Hemingway and Hemingway and His World, said he believed that the FBI's surveillance "substantially contributed to his anguish and his suicide", adding that he had "regretfully misjudged" his friend's fear of the organisation.

The reassessment is significant as it was precisely because of Papa Hemingway that the writer's fear of being bugged and followed by the FBI first surfaced. Hotchner's belated change of heart casts a new light on the last few months of Hemingway's life and two incidents in particular.

In November 1960, Hotchner writes, he had gone to visit Hemingway and Mary in Ketchum, Idaho, for an annual pheasant shoot. Hemingway was behaving oddly, Hotchner recalls: "When Ernest and our friend Duke MacMullen met my train at Shoshone, Idaho, for the drive to Ketchum, we did not stop at the bar opposite the station as we usually did because Ernest was anxious to get on the road. I asked why the hurry. 'The Feds.'


"'They tailed us all the way. Ask Duke.'

"'Well... there was a car back of us out of Hailey.'

"'Why are FBI agents pursuing you?' I asked.

"'It's the worst hell. The goddamnedest hell. They've bugged everything. That's why we're using Duke's car. Mine's bugged. Everything's bugged. Can't use the phone. Mail intercepted.'

"We rode for miles in silence. As we turned into Ketchum, Ernest said quietly: 'Duke, pull over. Cut your lights.' He peered across the street at a bank. Two men were working inside. 'What is it?' I asked. 'Auditors. The FBI's got them going over my account.'

"'But how do you know?'

"'Why would two auditors be working in the middle of the night? Of course it's my account'."

It would not be the only time during this visit that Hemingway would complain about being under FBI surveillance. On the last day of Hotchner's visit, at dinner with the writer and his wife, Hemingway pointed out two men at the bar who he identified as "FBI agents".

With the two incidents immediately preceding Hemingway's hospitilisation at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, where he received electric shock therapy, and several unsuccessful suicide attempts that followed his release, most have written off Hemingway's complaints about the FBI as largely delusional.

In the 1980s, however, Hemingway's FBI file was released following a Freedom of Information request by Jeffrey Myers, an academic then at the University of Colorado. The file demonstrated a keen interest in Hemingway, including his wartime attempts to set up an anti-fascist spy network called the Crook Factory, and the interest persisted until he entered the Mayo Clinic in 1960.

Indeed, in January 1961, the special agent tasked with following him dutifully reported to Hoover in January of 1961 that Hemingway "was physically and mentally ill".

That file, running to more than 120 pages, 15 of them largely blacked out for national security reasons, also demonstrates quite how close an interest Hoover and his organisation took in Hemingway. It is reassessing the revelations contained in this file that prompted Hotchner to voice his regret that he had not taken Hemingway's complaints more seriously – or considered the potential impact that such surveillance might have had on a man entering a period of mental illness.

Papa Hemingway in Cuba (2015)
In 1959, a young journalist ventures to Havana, Cuba to meet his idol, the legendary Ernest Hemingway who helped him find his literary voice, while the Cuban Revolution comes to a boil around them.
A distracting subplot centers on the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover and the mafia, and the fact that Hemingway knows about Hoover’s penchant for wearing women’s clothing and can’t quite keep the secret. His punishment? The IRS audits him to the tune of $40,000 while FBI agents seek to destroy him by planting evidence of rebel gun-running on his fishing boat. They will parade him in handcuffs before the entire world, they will!
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline jofortruth

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #171 on: August 06, 2017, 05:50:17 pm »
Jfk files are being released 2017

The tortured path that began with a left turn onto Dealey Plaza on Nov. 22, 1963, will find its unlikely end point this October in College Park, Md. At a National Archives annex, the last remaining documents related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy are being processed, scanned and readied for release

The time is up on Oct. 26, 2017. About 3,000 never-before-seen documents, along with 34,000 previously redacted files, are scheduled for release.

According to the National Archives, the final batch includes information on the CIA's station in Mexico City, where Oswald showed up weeks before JFK's death; 400 pages on E. Howard Hunt, the Watergate burglary conspirator who said on his deathbed that he had prior knowledge of the assassination; and testimony from the CIA's James Angleton, who oversaw intelligence on Oswald. The documents could also provide information on a CIA officer named George Joannides, who directed financial dealings with an anti-Castro group whose members had a public fight with Oswald on the streets of New Orleans in the summer of 1963.
Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #172 on: August 06, 2017, 09:06:30 pm »
fyi ....  son of Hunt ... still with the Bushes
Ray Lee Hunt (born 1943)
Hunt is the son of the late H. L. Hunt (1889–1974), founder of Hunt Oil Co.[2]
After his father's death in 1974, he inherited Hunt Oil Co. along with his three sisters.
In September 2007, Hunt struck an oil deal with the Kurdistan Regional Government in the disputed territories of Ninewa near the Dohuk Governorate with an estimated value of $8 to $14.5 billion. The federal Iraqi Oil minister has denounced this deal as illegal, because under current Iraqi law only the central government is authorized to enter into contracts, though the Kurdistan Region believes it has a constitutional right to do so. The Kurds refuse to share details about the deal but insist that they will share profits. Likewise, Hunt Oil has refused to answer questions about the deal from US government officials who called for details when the deal became public. A U.S. Congressional committee concluded that George W. Bush administration officials knew that Hunt oil was planning to sign the oil deal with the regional Kurdistan Regional Government that ran counter to American policy and undercut Iraq’s central government. The issue is still open and the State Department's Office of Inspector General is reviewing the issue.[4]

In 2015, Hunt and his wife donated $2 million to a Super PAC supporting the presidential candidacy of Jeb Bush
As of 2015, Forbes estimated Hunt's net worth to be US$6 billion.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline AlexanderStone

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Re: JFK Assassination Stories Here---50 years Ago---Nov 22, 1963
« Reply #173 on: September 13, 2017, 07:36:49 pm »
The former counselor to the world bank of 20 years states (and is true):

Both Kennedy, and Lincoln issued non approved currency. Which is why they were assassinated. Marilyn Monroe, and Robert Kennedy were also assassinated.

Technically there was another shooter, and the forensics lied.

The driver was involved as was the senior agent (SS for sabbatai sevi; illuminati) who waived the other away so the limo wouldn't have the protection of their bodies.