Author Topic: Waco: The Statute of Limitations on Mass Murder  (Read 31701 times)

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Offline foreverfree

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New Branch Davidian Waco movie staring Kurt Russell and Sharon Stone coming
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2010, 05:51:19 am »
http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/04/20/kurt-russell-sharon-stone-and-adrien-brody-star-to-recreate-1993-siege-on-david-koreshs-waco-compound/

Quote
Kurt Russell, Adrien Brody and Sharon Stone are potentially teaming to recreate the ATF raid on the Branch Davidian compound outside Waco that was led by David Koresh. The siege and actions that led to it cost the lives of 82 residents of the compound and 4 federal agents.


WACO will be the first narrative feature film to explore the events of the ATF raid on Mt. Carmel, TX, the 51-day siege that followed, and the devastating compound fire that resulted in the deaths of 81 civilians. The movie cuts between ATF special agents, FBI Negotiators, the Davidians on the inside, the tactical Hostage Rescue Team leaders, and the political machinations in Washington DC.


Wainwright co-wrote the film with journalist James Hibberd, and has been provided with “expert and detailed research” by Michael McNulty, a writer and producer on the documentary Waco: The Rules of Engagement.

The history of the Branch Davidian compound outside Waco is littered with a few odd, violent events, such as the time in 1989 when one Davidian killed another with an axe. The events of the 1993 siege, however, began when the ATF attempted to exacture a search warrant, based on information that suggested the compound was stockpiling weapons. The execution of that warrant led to a protracted gun battle that left four agents and six Davidians dead. (There are arguments about which side fired first, with many believing that federal agents issued the first shots.)

That battle led to a fifty-day siege upon the compound by the FBI, which ended with an assault on the compound and a fire which engulfed the property, killing 76 people, including leader David Koresh.

The siege and events surrounding it have been covered by a host of documentaries, but oddly never a feature film. There’s plenty of interest in this story still, and given the anti-government sentiment that often goes along with conversations about these events, I have to wonder: will this be an action movie for the Tea Party movement?
molon labe


H0llyw00d

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Nice...Hope this production doesn't get packed w/ Lies as well.....

Offline uwaf

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Ya think they will tell the truth?

Offline lee51

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No!!   >:(

H0llyw00d

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Ya think they will tell the truth?
...hmmmmmmmm....lessee here.....hollywood....Weinsteins....MPAA......Academy Awards......RIAA

highly doubtful...but who knows....Volleywood's been known to crank out a genuine article now & then.

Offline chris jones

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...hmmmmmmmm....lessee here.....hollywood....Weinsteins....MPAA......Academy Awards......RIAA

highly doubtful...but who knows....Volleywood's been known to crank out a genuine article now & then.
Hi H0llyw00d..

I know that there is a trend to dismiss hollwood as a zionist-propaganda machine, NWO tool, Etc..

But, I have a problem with generalizations, lables, etc. there does exist producers-backers-who are attempting to bring the truth to the people. There are classic examples, I will not rant on the titles, we know them.

Yes, there are shiiitbirds who trash the truth, propaganda mechanics for the NWO. & agreed they are in the  the numbers

My reasoning for mentioning this is simple, if we as truthers put all people in this industry in a box-labeled, we appear to be close minded, and we are not that.

H. , this is just a point that I had to make, I'm not focusing on your comment, there has been in the past many a post that seem to one sided.
 





PullMyFinger

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...hmmmmmmmm....lessee here.....hollywood....Weinsteins....MPAA......Academy Awards......RIAA

highly doubtful...but who knows....Volleywood's been known to crank out a genuine article now & then.
Starring Sharon Stone? Methinks not.

Offline Dig

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...hmmmmmmmm....lessee here.....hollywood....Weinsteins....MPAA......Academy Awards......RIAA

highly doubtful...but who knows....Volleywood's been known to crank out a genuine article now & then.

Kurt Russell went full truther in Dark Blue, but as you say, the rest of the supporting crew are no lovers of truth.

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline RabidSheep

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Kurt Russell cant do a Texas Southern accent. This will be horrible to watch, I am only guessing. Not to mention Sharon Stone is awful.

Offline Dig

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http://msnbc.com

General Electric, Harriman, Rockefeller, Queen Elizabeth are totally out in the open.

Rachel Maddow segment is un-fricking believable.

This is just amazing NLP, conditioning in the middle of NLE10 war game exercises?

Hey Rachel, your emploer helped try to exterminate muslims, jews, protestants, gypsies, blacks, chinese, communists, russians, etc. etc.

General Electric is one of the greatest proponents of violence in the world.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dok

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NWO!!!

Guess im a terrorist.
HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship ;)

Offline Guns Equal Freedom

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This is why I never say "New World Order", or "secret societies" that are "over 235 years old" like "The Freemasons" or "The Illuminati", of any other kinda "conspiracy buzz words".

I just say, "Globalization".

It is simple as that.

The world has been Globalized already, just look at what Greece's Bad Economy did to the rest of the world's economy in this "Second Wave Economic Crisis".
A Peaceful Anarchy would be like Utopia, but a Minarchy is reality.

Offline happyJoy

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I am so screwed.

Deja Vu
Another bucket of blood under the bridge, you learn to love bridges and never look down. - HST

Offline Dig

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This is why I never say "New World Order", or "secret societies" that are "over 235 years old" like "The Freemasons" or "The Illuminati", of any other kinda "conspiracy buzz words".

I just say, "Globalization".

It is simple as that.

The world has been Globalized already, just look at what Greece's Bad Economy did to the rest of the world's Economy in this "second wave economic crisis".

shit, if they banned globalization, the entire CFR, Heritage Foundation, and AEI would have to leave the country....c'mon Rachel!
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline L2Design

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So then the people that announced the NWO in their speeches are terrorists--SUPER!!

Arrest:

Bush Sr., Bush Jr., Obama.... and all the rest of those losers...
Make it so!

Damascus

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Rachel Madcow is the Bill O'rielly of the left. Gotta keep this douopoly going ya know.

Offline Eckhart Tolle

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So then the people that announced the NWO in their speeches are terrorists--SUPER!!

Arrest:

Bush Sr., Bush Jr., Obama.... and all the rest of those losers...

Seriously. Arrest them all.

Offline truth_addict

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this board and it's members are the biggest organized terror group in the UNIVERSE!  oh s#!t.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson

Offline Valerius

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I bet a split screen with that guy next to a roll of the footage of all those guys talking about the NWO in IE would look cool.
"No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened about his own neck."  -Frederick Douglass

Offline chrisfromchi

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ferris bueller needs to go on a day off.





or


Offline HAZMAT

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ferris bueller needs to go on a day off.





or



its like her chin is connected directly to her neck, it just makes me feel like  :-\ when i see her.

Offline citizenx

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NWO, NWO, NWO.

Wow, I thought they would actually appear.

Thank God, really.

Offline Dig

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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Damascus

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So she is just one big POS. First the selective editing cover up of McViegh, and now calling everyone that is not part of the elite that mentions NWO is a terrorist. Bet she thinks she is real high up in their system. If she could she would probably edit the McVeigh tapes to say he was the tea party.

Rini200

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NWO! NWO! NWO! NWO! NWO! NWO! NWO! NWO!


whoops I guess I'm a terrorists now.

Offline flaming_red_pill

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http://msnbc.com

General Electric, Harriman, Rockefeller, Queen Elizabeth are totally out in the open.

Rachel Maddow segment is un-fricking believable.

This is just amazing NLP, conditioning in the middle of NLE10 war game exercises?

Hey Rachel, your emploer helped try to exterminate muslims, jews, protestants, gypsies, blacks, chinese, communists, russians, etc. etc.

General Electric is one of the greatest proponents of violence in the world.
That b**** pissed me off so bad a few weeks back, I was having a really paranoid day an she had to come on wearing a tinfoil hat. It was NOT flattering.
Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed.

-President John F. Kennedy on the Global Conspiracy

Offline Overcast

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http://msnbc.com

General Electric, Harriman, Rockefeller, Queen Elizabeth are totally out in the open.

Rachel Maddow segment is un-fricking believable.

This is just amazing NLP, conditioning in the middle of NLE10 war game exercises?

Hey Rachel, your emploer helped try to exterminate muslims, jews, protestants, gypsies, blacks, chinese, communists, russians, etc. etc.

General Electric is one of the greatest proponents of violence in the world.

Oh? Then - government sites are espousing terrorism?

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22New+World+Order%22+site:.gov&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&prmd=ivln&start=0&sa=N
And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!


Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Democracy Now covers Waco vs. Dorner cabin with ex-chief Norm Stamper
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2013, 11:33:03 am »


  Chris Dorners name is going to turn into a verb....

  Cops are going to burn out people and the press is going to say....the people in that house were dornered.

  People are going to be NDAA'ed and they are going to say----the guy disappeared, apparently he was dornered.

I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline One Revelator

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Re: Democracy Now covers Waco vs. Dorner cabin with ex-chief Norm Stamper
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2013, 12:15:35 pm »

  Chris Dorners name is going to turn into a verb....

  Cops are going to burn out people and the press is going to say....the people in that house were dornered.

  People are going to be NDAA'ed and they are going to say----the guy disappeared, apparently he was dornered.



That is the problem right there. I’m not seeing any move towards accountability. What I am seeing is a collective yawn with both MSM and alternative media interpreting the event for us—telling us there’s nothing we can do. It’s just the way things are. Bill O’Reilly shouted down a PhD for daring to talk about the issues that Dorner brought up. The biggest danger to the establishment were the people who saw things from Dorner’s POV. But that’s being taken care of as we speak. The #teamdorner hashtag is being mocked. The words “crispy” and “menu” come up often now. Even though the scanner recordings are out, the authorities are not backing down from any lies publicly stated. Extrajudicial action remains justified. The rule of law does not apply to them.

Remember when Chief Beck said he would have another look at the case? Well, he’s done glancing at it now for 5 seconds and it’s back in the trash.

Meteors have taken over as the subject of the day. Give it a week and most people will be saying, “Who’s Dorner?” Perception mop-up operations are occurring now. And we wonder where apathy comes from?

This Waco approach has always been in the playbook to lead us toward civil war. And now the message to police nationwide is to go ahead, you can get away with it. Nobody’s going to question you. Nobody’s going to stop you.

I’m reminded of an insider’s predictions in 2001. These predictions didn’t happen but revealed possibilities leading to civil war. Remember John Titor, the “time traveler”?

Quote
The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII.
The number one cause of all human poverty, misery, and death is not global warming. It’s GLOBAL LYING.

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: Democracy Now covers Waco vs. Dorner cabin with ex-chief Norm Stamper
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2013, 03:47:36 pm »
What happened to the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment? If they did not allow this man to surrender to them then his rights were violated. Were the police a lynch mob? Remember he was alleged to be a murderer and cop killer. 

http://billofrightsinstitute.org/resources/educator-resources/americapedia/americapedia-bill-of-rights/fifth-amendment/due-process/
Fifth Amendment: Due Process

The government may not deprive citizens of “life, liberty, or property” without due process of law. This means that the government has to follow rules and established procedures in everything it does. It cannot, for example, skip parts of trials, or deny citizens their rights as protected by the Bill of Rights and by law. This protection helps to ensure justice.
 
Due process protection has its roots in the Magna Carta when King John promised that “[n]o free man shall be taken or imprisoned … or in any way destroyed, nor will we go upon him nor send upon him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land.”
 
The language of this amendment is echoed in the Fourteenth Amendment’s Due Process Clause.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Due_Process_Clause
...
Due Process Clause
 
Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the Due Process Clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the Government outside the sanction of law.[22]

 Lyman Trumbull, speaking of the Fourteenth Amendment’s due process clause and the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, said: “There is no change in that respect so far as the States are concerned, and the Federal Government cannot interfere with the States so long as they do not deprive some person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.”[22]

Due process of the law disables the State executive officer and State courts from denying State laws of due process before tribunals of justice to any class of persons.[23]

...
Equal Protection Clause
.
The equal protection clause was added to deal with the lack of equal protection provided by law to all in the course of administering justice in the states who had Black codes
...
Bingham said in a speech from March 31, 1871 that "the words “equal protection of the laws” were more than a glittering generality", but "that they were to be enforced to the extent of securing all guarantees of life, liberty, and property as provided by the supreme law of the land, the Constitution of the United States
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline John_Back_From_The_Club_O

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Re: Democracy Now covers Waco vs. Dorner cabin with ex-chief Norm Stamper
« Reply #72 on: February 17, 2013, 07:38:40 pm »
The fact that George Soros 'Democracy Now' and NWO's old time favorite Time magazine are push the WACO vs Dorner and throwing the LAPD under the bus is posted below.  NOTE: The LAPD is thrown under the bus by both DN and Time Mag BUT NEVER DO THEY EQUALLY THROW THE ATF UNDER THE BUS FOR WACO.  Important you make note of that fact. 

Posed at sticky forum...
I've been following this now, 'post', Dorner psyop from the Drone angle.

Again, the reason I feel this most certainly was a psyop.  Either with a set up of Dorner or, Dorner going 'Prozac', was in fact the media coverage BEFORE it broke and, all the way up to the 'epic-made-for-TV' fiery ending.

The NWO through their 'proxi' media was pushing the idea that the military would have to become involved in using drones against or, on, the American people.  Meaning, that they would have to 'take over' law enforcement situations.  Now, the articles I read pushing this military take over of law enforcement using drones was being floated out right before the Dorner psyop went MSM.

Now, with the LAPD with egg on their faces, that the MSM is even contributing to, leaves the next psyop OPEN to the idea that, in fact, the military should get involved with such cases.  i.e. gun owners defending their second amendment. 
The Crowd Shouted... “Give us Barabbas!” ... and People, The NWO Gave Him To You.
http://www.dominicanajournal.org/give-us-barabbas/

https://www.greatagain.gov

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: Democracy Now covers Waco vs. Dorner cabin with ex-chief Norm Stamper
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2013, 08:04:39 pm »
  NOTE: The LAPD is thrown under the bus by both DN and Time Mag BUT NEVER DO THEY EQUALLY THROW THE ATF UNDER THE BUS FOR WACO.  Important you make note of that fact. 

I agree, it is a very subtle manipulation. 
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Jacob Law

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Re: Democracy Now covers Waco vs. Dorner cabin with ex-chief Norm Stamper
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2013, 08:12:33 pm »
What happened to the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment? If they did not allow this man to surrender to them then his rights were violated. Were the police a lynch mob? Remember he was alleged to be a murderer and cop killer. 

http://billofrightsinstitute.org/resources/educator-resources/americapedia/americapedia-bill-of-rights/fifth-amendment/due-process/
Fifth Amendment: Due Process

The government may not deprive citizens of “life, liberty, or property” without due process of law. This means that the government has to follow rules and established procedures in everything it does. It cannot, for example, skip parts of trials, or deny citizens their rights as protected by the Bill of Rights and by law. This protection helps to ensure justice.
 
Due process protection has its roots in the Magna Carta when King John promised that “[n]o free man shall be taken or imprisoned … or in any way destroyed, nor will we go upon him nor send upon him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land.”
 
The language of this amendment is echoed in the Fourteenth Amendment’s Due Process Clause.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Due_Process_Clause
...
Due Process Clause
 
Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the Due Process Clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the Government outside the sanction of law.[22]

 Lyman Trumbull, speaking of the Fourteenth Amendment’s due process clause and the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, said: “There is no change in that respect so far as the States are concerned, and the Federal Government cannot interfere with the States so long as they do not deprive some person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.”[22]

Due process of the law disables the State executive officer and State courts from denying State laws of due process before tribunals of justice to any class of persons.[23]

...
Equal Protection Clause
.
The equal protection clause was added to deal with the lack of equal protection provided by law to all in the course of administering justice in the states who had Black codes
...
Bingham said in a speech from March 31, 1871 that "the words “equal protection of the laws” were more than a glittering generality", but "that they were to be enforced to the extent of securing all guarantees of life, liberty, and property as provided by the supreme law of the land, the Constitution of the United States

This has become the SOP; the LEOs now open fire without provocations and escape prosecution with paid vacation, pay raises, and promotion......

Do you know that statistics for police shooting are concealed purposely!!!
What do you under-stand?

JConner

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JConner

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Re: Waco bombing forensic analysis video
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2013, 10:28:03 am »
Here's another video talking about hypersonic weapons and Waco...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR90cAjNZnw

Offline TahoeBlue

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Janet Reno is STILL living ...
Notice the Davidian WACO raid was cover for the botched FBI setup FF WTC bombing fiasco ....
WTC 93 was Feb 26 1993 - Waco raid was Feb 28 1993


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing
On February 26, 1993, a truck bomb was detonated below the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City. The 1,336 pounds (606 kg) urea nitrate–hydrogen gas enhanced device[1] was intended to send the North Tower (Tower 1) crashing into the South Tower (Tower 2), bringing both towers down and killing tens of thousands of people

http://abcnews.go.com/Archives/video/feb-27-1993-police-confirm-bomb-wtc-9595996
2/27/93: Police Confirm Bomb at WTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwC0pHIIMMI
FBI could have stopped the 1993 World Trade Center bombing
Published on Apr 18, 2013
Emad A. Salem and his FBI handlers had plans to provide the WTC bomb makers with inert material, but new FBI head for the case stopped this plan

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/31/nyregion/bomb-informer-s-tapes-give-rare-glimpse-of-fbi-dealings.html
Bomb Informer's Tapes Give Rare Glimpse of F.B.I. Dealings
By RICHARD BERNSTEIN with RALPH BLUMENTHAL 
Published: October 31, 1993
...



No mention of WACO ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3045757/Hundreds-gather-mark-20-years-Oklahoma-City-bombing.html

Bill Clinton wipes tears from his eyes and hails Oklahoma as 'an example for the world' on 20th anniversary of Oklahoma City bombing
Clinton was president at the time of the bombing on April 19, 1995
He addressed survivors, victims' families, and citizens to applaud the city
Hailed Oklahoma as an example for the world in face of terrorism
By Mia De Graaf For Dailymail.com
Published: 08:18 EST, 19 April 2015  | Updated: 11:53 EST, 19 April 2015


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3045757/Hundreds-gather-mark-20-years-Oklahoma-City-bombing.html#ixzz3Xm99h0aM
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Bill-Clinton-Janet-Reno-Waco-hated/2014/04/14/id/565512/
Dick Morris: Bill Clinton 'Hated' Janet Reno, and Waco Made It Worse
 Monday, 14 Apr 2014 02:37 PM

A dispute between federal authorities and a Nevada rancher over 400 cattle grazing on federal land that ended peacefully Sunday brought to mind two Western standoffs from two decades ago.

 Republican strategist Dick Morris says one of the main reasons the Bureau of Land Management released the livestock was to avoid a repeat of armed confrontations that ended in civilian fatalities such as those in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992 and in Waco, Texas, in 1993.

 "You simply cannot have any reason for the federal government to start firing on its people, and you add 200 armed people, including snipers, surrounding that property to round up 2,000 head of cattle," Morris told John Bachman and J.D. Hayworth on "America's Forum" on Monday on Newsmax TV.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Bill-Clinton-Janet-Reno-Waco-hated/2014/04/14/id/565512/#ixzz3XmCO3mNE
 Urgent: Rate Obama on His Job Performance. Vote Here Now!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Reno
Janet Wood Reno (born July 21, 1938) served as the Attorney General of the United States, from 1993 to 2001.[1] She was nominated by President Bill Clinton on February 11, 1993, and confirmed on March 11, 1993. She was the first woman to serve as Attorney General and the second longest serving Attorney General after William Wirt.
...
In 2013, Reno voiced herself for the "Dark Knight Court" episode of The Simpsons

| - - -

Holder was Deputy AG to RENO ... :

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/LIAjQV1k0Rf/Attorney+Gen+Eric+Holder+Speaks+Ceremony+Honoring/bxeQbirm5sf/Janet+Reno



U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder (C) kisses former U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno (R) after she was awarded with the Justice Award by the American Judicature Society as society president Gordon Doerfer (L) looks on, at the Ronald Reagan Building and International Trade Center April 17, 2009 in Washington, DC. The award is the highest honor given by the society for Reno's devotion and dedication to the administration of justice in the United States. (Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images) * Local Caption * Eric Holder;Janet Reno;Gordon Doerfer

http://victorygirlsblog.com/lewinsky-clinton-tripp-holder-reno-and-obama-the-more-things-dont-change/

A.G. Reno and Ass. A.G. Holder in 1998 hearing



Mandatory minimums put first-time offenders in jail for life and lets drug kingpins bargain for their freedom

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-19940505#ixzz3XmFs4VZo
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Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: Waco: The Statute of Limitations on Mass Murder
« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2015, 12:39:26 pm »
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2015/04/feds-mutilated-corpses-at-waco-the-bizarre-deaths-of-the-waco-branch-davidians-full-article-3137880.html
Feds Mutilated Corpses at Waco – ‘The Bizarre Deaths of the Waco Branch Davidians’ – Full Article
Tuesday, April 14, 2015 14:44

The Bizarre Deaths of the Waco Branch Davidians
Posted-distributed at the suggestion and permissions from: http://www.texemarrs.com/


http://www.texemarrs.com/101999/bizdth.htm
Exclusive Intelligence Examiner Report – Texe Marrs

It is with a mixture of both sorrow and tear-stained anger that I present this information to you, my good friends and partners of Power of Prophecy. Those federal officials and agents guilty of the sickening bloodshed at Waco must be punished by State of Texas law enforcement and courts. We must cry out until they are. Until justice is done, we must never forget the admonition of Isaiah 59:14: “And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.”

“Torch the Mother f…rs. Do it today!” That was the direct order given Janet Reno’s Justice Department by Hillary Rodham Clinton from the East Wing of the White House. And so, on the morning of April 19, the day beginning the witches’ annual High Holy Days, on the 51st day of the siege, the combined forces of the FBI’s and the Army’s dreaded Delta Force Nightstalkers lit into the beleaguered men, women, and children held up inside their Branch Davidian church/home just outside Waco, Texas.

They ran wild, ravaging and slaughtering. Then, besotted by blood, their satanic lust and fury to kill satiated, the FBI and U.S. Army Nightstalker mass murderers took a few moments to stalk their lifeless prey, walking to and forth in the burning rubble, casting their jerky, nervous eyes to and fro over the smoldering ruins and the burnt and mutilated corpses of their seventy-six victims. Like cannibalistic savages, some took pictures of each other while pridefully holding in their hands the charred heads of their victims.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: Waco: The Statute of Limitations on Mass Murder
« Reply #79 on: April 19, 2015, 01:21:18 pm »
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/28105260/remembering-waco#.VTPwjbnn-Hs
Remembering Waco
Updated: Feb 27, 2015 5:00 AM PST

What has the memory of Waco and the raid on the Camp Davidians in 1993 got to do with a bloated Department of Homeland Security and far too many weapons in the hands of the mentally challenged in 2015?
 

Michael D. Langan, who was Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Enforcement at the Treasury Department, took part in the decision-making that preceded the Waco raid.  He offers a perspective:

                                     Waco's 22st Anniversary, February 28, 2015

The memory of the Bureau of Alcohol & Tobacco and Firearms' (ATF's) raid on the Camp Davidians near Waco on February 28, 1993 and its outcome, 87 or more dead, is the ghost of the past in today's continuing controversy over a questionable consolidation of federal law enforcement and gun control.

The Take-away:  Absent a coherent strategy and strong oversight in law enforcement, bad stuff happens.   The history of what happened at Waco is an unending listing of 'what ifs, and whys.'  Also, a look back at Waco argues forcefully for what has long been known: limiting the sale of assault weapons, high capacity magazines, improving background checks and developing better mental health protocols for those citizens wishing weapons but who may need this care before decisions are made on their requests.

A better start would have avoided the terrible ending.

By the time the 51-day siege was over, the deceased included David Koresh and many of his followers as well as four ATF agents. 

Unrecognized at the time, the raid by ATF was also the beginning of the end for the Department of Treasury's long and largely admirable history of federal law enforcement oversight that included the U. S. Customs Service, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the Secret Service and Federal Law Enforcement Training. ATF was later moved to the Department of Justice, and its acronym changed to ATFE, highlighting explosive expertise which the FBI tried to appropriate.

ATFE has a complicated history.  Its law enforcement responsibilities relating to ammo, firearms, arson, and explosives went to the Department of Justice, and its taxing function was kept at Treasury.

In fact, the actual trigger for transfer of Treasury's law enforcement agencies to Homeland Security was the 9/11 bombing of the World Trade Center building.  Although there was discussion at several Congressional hearings of transferring ATF's firearms program to DOJ after Waco - no action was taken.

Waco was the beginning of a long series of steps downhill to a DHS takeover of Treasury enforcement assets.  DHS seems at times to be magnifying earlier errors on a broader level all in one place.

Soon after the 9/11 attack on the Twin Towers, President George W. Bush made the proposal that all law enforcement be included in the new Department of Homeland Security (DHS). Ostensibly, this was done to simplify in one place a command structure that would be make it easier to articulate programs, policies and procedures on a much vaster scale.  Later, Congress decided to move ATF's law enforcement function to the Department of Justice, and keep its regulatory and taxing functions under Treasury.

History will record whether DHS, presently on the edge of not being funded by the Congress, has achieved George W. Bush's goals, or is in fact a worse bureaucracy with poorer oversight than the entities it has replaced or subsumed.

Critics have argued that the consolidation of law enforcement agencies with different cultures within DHS has not worked as intended.  Why?  Constant turnover in DHS and its vastness makes decision-making and oversight difficult.

Twenty-two years ago, I was involved in the decision-making that led up to that ATF raid.  I was the Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary (DAS) for Enforcement in the chain of command at the U. S. Treasury Department's Office of Enforcement for more than a year, until a political appointee was named.

Before the Waco raid by ATF took place, I and others at Main Treasury Enforcement argued against it
.  It wasn't a good idea.  Better to wait a while.  Why?  The question of what laws were violated – specifically weapons charges and others - and whether their violation required such an assault by ATF with possible injury or death - was on the minds of those considering the appropriateness of the ATF raid.  (After the raid it turned out that the evidence for these charges was questionable.)

The plan was for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) to execute search and arrest warrants on Vernon Wayne Howell, also known as David Koresh, near Waco, Texas, on Sunday morning, February 28, 1993.

As a result of our concerns, the raid was called off, for a brief period.

But after a renewed plea that promised additional safeguards by ATF Director Steve Higgins to the Acting Assistant Secretary, John Simpson, ATF got the go ahead.  This plea included the following elements:

When Steve Higgins spoke with Ron Noble, a political appointee not yet approved as assistant secretary, and John Simpson late Friday evening, he told them three things that persuaded them to allow the operation to proceed:

(1) the Waco newspaper intended to run a long article in the Sunday edition about the heavily-armed religious cult on the edge of the city, which would have alerted Koresh that the authorities were aware of his arms purchases: (2) there was a ritual inside the compound on Sunday mornings during which the men were separated from the women and children and the firearms were locked up, and (3) ATF had an informant inside who would be able to get word outside if the compound occupants became aware of the ATF presence around the compound.   

Unfortunately, even after ATF commanders became aware that the compound was on alert, they decided to go ahead anyway, contrary to the assurances they had given to Steve Higgins.

The ATF raid took place on the Mount Carmel Center property of the Branch Davidians on the day it was planned.

The raid was a disaster.

Over the long term, ATF's failed attempt to serve warrants on the Mount Carmel property also changed the face of federal law enforcement.  As noted, much of Treasury's non-financial enforcement responsibility was transferred to the Department of Justice within a decade.

Presently, even though ATF was not affected by the consolidation of law enforcement agencies under DHS, ATF is hamstrung by congressional inaction that makes certain it does not have 21st century authority and tools to regulate guns.

The latter department is where ATF continues to languish these past nine years.  Additionally ATF is hamstrung by congressional inaction that makes certain it does not have 21st century authority and tools to regulate guns.

But let me set the scene for you prior to the raid.

Two days earlier, on Friday, February 26, 1993, there was no political appointee yet approved by the Congress as President Bill Clinton's choice to be Assistant Secretary for Enforcement.

Ronald K. Noble, a former deputy assistant attorney general at DOJ, was nominated but had not yet been confirmed.  (Noble was a well-respected law professor at NYU on leave.  Later he completed a fine career at Treasury and served for a number of years as Interpol Secretary General.)

No appointment meant that John P. Simpson, the seasoned Treasury Deputy Assistant Secretary for Regulatory, Tariff and Trade Enforcement, was required to take on the role of Acting Assistant Secretary for Enforcement.

Simpson was a veteran adjudicator of thorny issues on the regulatory side of the office.  He was a clear thinker with the capacity to tolerate considerable ambiguity in the course of a day.

Good thing.  That day, Friday, February 26 [1993], our office received word that the World Trade Center was bombed in New York City.

A 1336-pound truck bomb planted by Ramzi Yousef and other terrorists killed six people and injured 1042. There were reports of possible loss of life or injury to Treasury agents that our office was busy checking out.

It was during this intense play of events - with phones ringing incessantly about the Trade Center bombing - that ATF agent Chris Cuyler came into my office.  He had briefly seen Mr. Noble, who had no authority pending his confirmation to make decisions about any Treasury-related activity.

Noble recommended Cuyler speak to me and John Simpson.

Not having an appointed official in office, sometimes for months after a presidential election, raises the issue of things going wrong when a new administration does not or cannot get its appointees in place.

More usually, senior career officials across the federal government are able to attend to the daily grind.  But normally, civil servants don't have the ear of the White House on policy questions, except for emergencies and after the fact criticism.

This first Trade Center bombing and Waco were extraordinary emergencies whose paths crossed on the same day, and stretched our abilities to cope with them.

Both Acting Assistant Secretary Simpson and I were aware of the danger in the prospective AFT raid, and we notified senior Treasury officials in advance.

I contacted Philip Diehl, then counselor to Secretary Lloyd Bentsen, and Joshua Steiner, then special assistant to Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, Roger Altman, to the fact that a raid was scheduled to take place the following Sunday near Waco.  Steiner in turn informed Altman of the existence of the planned raid.  Secretary Bentsen, who was in England, was not notified.

When Simpson sought clarification about the purpose of the ATF briefing, Director Higgins explained that ATF merely wanted to keep the Office of Enforcement informed and was not seeking Simpson's authorization.”

Higgins was right about not needing Treasury authorization to go ahead with the raid.

The Treasury investigation of ATF and David Koresh made public in September 1993 also indicated, “…no regulation then in force required ATF to seek approval from the Office of Enforcement for the execution of search or arrest warrants, even for an operation of this magnitude.  Indeed, no regulation required ATF even to notify the Assistant Secretary that such an operation was about to be launched.”

The Treasury Investigative Report also noted that it had been ATF's practice to apprise the Assistant Secretary of significant events, especially those expected to generate substantial media attention.” (p. 177)   ATF leaders knew that Waco would be one of these.

When ATF agent Cuyler gave me a one-page memorandum alerting me to the raid on the Branch Davidian Compound outside Waco that was set for Sunday morning, less than a day and a half away, I called Robert McNamara, Treasury's Assistant General Counsel for Enforcement into my office.

McNamara was a first rate lawyer whose good judgment I valued.  (He later became General Counsel for the CIA.)

McNamara and I listened carefully to what Cuyler had to say about the memo, which wasn't much more than what was written.

The memo noted that “approximately 75 people (men, women, and children), were thought to be in the compound, and assured that ATF had developed “A well-reasoned, comprehensive plan had been approved [that] allows for all contingencies.”

It seemed to both of us that it was unreasonable for Treasury Enforcement to have so little time to consider the ATF plan that was presented to us.

ATF Director Higgins' approach, we later learned, was that he wasn't asking for approval of the plan; he was merely notifying us of a major operation before it got under way.

My immediate thought was that ATF's execution of warrants on Koresh at the Davidian compound seemed a mistake
.  It was gambling a dime to win a penny.  The Davidians had a great deal of firepower that they could use if provoked.

McNamara asked Cuyler what the underlying legal violations were, and, at that point, I decided to ask DAS John Simpson, who was senior in authority, to hold a meeting in the Assistant Secretary's office to further discuss ATF's plan and its implications.

At the meeting were Simpson, myself, McNamara and Stanley E. Morris, a veteran of the Department of Justice who had been Director of the U. S. Marshals Service, who worked in the Office of Enforcement at the time.

We discussed ATF's notification.  Mr. Noble, Morris and I had serious reservations about the plan and advised against it.

I remember asking, “Why not just wait them out, rather than try an entry that could be met with major force?”

Others agreed.  As a result, Simpson called ATF Director Steve Higgins and told him that the raid was called off.

As the Treasury Report of the ATF action later indicated, “While Higgins offered no objection at the time, a half hour later he called Simpson and asked him to reconsider his order to call off the raid.

First to Simpson alone, and then in a conference call with Noble and Simpson, Higgins explained that the warrants had to be executed forcefully because Koresh was not likely to surrender voluntarily and because ATF feared that Koresh and his followers might destroy evidence or commit mass suicide if given the opportunity.”

Director Higgins also allayed Noble and Simpson's concerns about the raid, indicating that if its secrecy was compromised, they would know about it because of an undercover agent's reporting any change in routine within the Compound.

“Noble and Higgins said that they were satisfied that their concerns about the raid had been addressed.

“Simpson revoked his earlier decision that the raid not go forward.”

It was clear to me that while Director of ATF Higgins could have gone forward with the raid on his own, he wanted Treasury Enforcement cover and approval at this point, and he got it.

The problem was that ATF activity in the field became compromised and Koresh knew about the raid in advance, notwithstanding Higgins' assurances.

The raid should have been called off, but ATF leaders in the field did not do it.  Instead, they pressed ahead and took withering fire from the compound and deaths ensued.

At the time, I think that Main Treasury enforcement exercised appropriate caution.  In retrospect, one learns that there was always more that might have done.

One of the facts of life for law enforcement oversight is that you almost never act with 100 percent likelihood of success.  Those responsible have to choose what likelihood of success is acceptable in terms of achieving the goal.  Weighing out losses against gains in advance isn't easy.

The Treasury investigative Report indicated as much when it said,

“Theoretically, the Office of Enforcement could choose to review the plans for every ATF operation and, indeed, for every Secret Service and Customs operation as well.

To do so, however, would either turn the Office into a rubber-stamp operation or make enforcement activities by these agencies come to a grinding half. In 1992 alone, ATF's more than 2,000 agents executed in 10,134 federal warrants….Given the speed with which most enforcement activities occur and the degree of familiarity that is needed before an operation can be assessed, involvement by the Office in most ATF raids is impossible.  For routine operations, the Office must rely on ATF leadership.”

In this important raid, ATF leadership failed as the raid was carried out and it was dealt with severely by the Secretary of the Treasury.  The Director and his senior lieutenants and others were removed.

John Magaw, a former Director of the Secret Service, took Higgins' place in an attempt to revitalize a flagging agency.

But the ghost of the past is with us still, in the guise of continuing weapons' abuse across the country.

President Obama promised meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like the Newtown savagery and many other shootings since, but he hasn't been successful.

Waco's ghost of victims past will be glad of such action – if it happens.  The old argument that ‘nothing can be done' leads to one thing: more gun victims' graves.

Another veteran of the Waco debacle remarked afterward, “This country, and especially the State of Texas, has lost its perspective on guns and the original intent of the Second Amendment.  It will not hurt to remind readers that there was a time not so long ago when even the citizens of Waco had a healthy fear of nuts getting possession of automatic weapons.”

So, after 22 years of mayhem and more, what can be done about gun violence?

What to do?  President Obama says he owns this issue.  The logic is simple.

The politics of gun control is complicated and virulent.

Nevertheless, to those who say the effort is too hard or too late, this reflection is another reason to remember President John Kennedy's perhaps apocryphal remark to the White House gardener when the new president requested that a particular tree be planted.

“But Mr. President, the gardener objected, that tree will take one hundred years to come to full growth.”

“All the more reason”, Kennedy said, “to start today.”

---

Michael D. Langan, a Naples, FL resident, has written for the BBC, Boston Globe, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Buffalo News and other venues.

In 1993, he was Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Enforcement at the Treasury Department.  At that time, he was a 56-year-old veteran of federal service having completed the Harvard Kennedy School program for Senior Managers, as well as the Federal Executive Institute and a term Senior Executive Service appointee.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5