Author Topic: Zeitgeist/Venus Project's "Cybernetic" Solution Exposed and Heavily Critiqued  (Read 47095 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline squarepusher

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,013
Let's make this a sticky and a compilation of posts that illustrate all the insane ways in which cybernetics is planning to exert its control over people.

First up is a prominent cyberneticist called Marshall McLuhan (long since deceased by now - where does the God of Cybernetics decide to send you after this lifetime? That is a question only McLuhan knows by now I suppose). This is an interview with him published in Playboy Magazine, March 1969. You just have to step back and stand in awe at the sheer audacity of this man to go in front of a semi-educated general public (in comparison to today, at least) and basically state that computers are going to LITERALLY program entire populations, and that this is just an inevitable thing that is going to happen, and that people should refrain from engaging in their backward luddite ways.

Marshall McLuhan

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan



http://www.nextnature.net/2009/12/the-playboy-interview-marshall-mcluhan/

http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/188/spring07/mcluhan.pdf

Let's just skip to the good stuff...


“The Playboy Interview: Marshall McLuhan”, Playboy Magazine, March 1969. © Playboy
"Carefully orchestrated programming of whole populations"
Quote
PLAYBOY: How do you program an entire society — beneficially or otherwise?

McLUHAN: There’s nothing at all difficult about putting computers in the position where they will be able to conduct carefully orchestrated programing of the sensory life of whole populations. I know it sounds rather science-fictional, but if you understood cybernetics you’d realize we could do it today. The computer could program the media to determine the given messages a people should hear in terms of their over-all needs, creating a total media experience absorbed and patterned by all the senses. We could program five hours less of TV in Italy to promote the reading of newspapers during an election, or lay on an additional 25 hours of TV in Venezuela to cool down the tribal temperature raised by radio the preceding month. By such orchestrated interplay of all media, whole cultures could now be programed in order to improve and stabilize their emotional climate, just as we are beginning to learn how to maintain equilibrium among the world’s competing economies.


"How is this not Pavlovian brainwashing?"
Quote

PLAYBOY: How does such environmental programing, however enlightened in intent, differ from Pavlovian brainwashing?

McLUHAN Your question reflects the usual panic of people confronted with unexplored technologies. I’m not saying such panic isn’t justified, or that such environmental programing couldn’t be brainwashing, or far worse — merely that such reactions are useless and distracting. Though I think the programing of societies could actually be conducted quite constructively and humanistically, I don’t want to be in the position of a Hiroshima physicist extolling the potential of nuclear energy in the first days of August 1945. But an understanding of media’s effects constitutes a civil defense against media fallout.

The alarm of so many people, however, at the prospect of corporate programing’s creation of a complete service environment on this planet is rather like fearing that a municipal lighting system will deprive the individual of the right to adjust each light to his own favorite level of intensity. Computer technology can — and doubtless will — program entire environments to fulfill the social needs and sensory preferences of communities and nations. The content of that programing, however, depends on the nature of future societies — but that is in our own hands. (My note: Oh? Is it not in the hands of oligarchies/elites instead?)


"The cybernetic state will happen, get used to it"
Quote

I see no possibility of a worldwide Luddite rebellion that will smash all machinery to bits, so we might as well sit back and see what is happening and what will happen to us in a cybernetic world. Resenting a new technology will not halt its progress.


"Man becomes the sex organ of machines"
Quote

By consistently embracing all these technologies, we inevitably relate ourselves to them as servomechanisms. Thus, in order to make use of them at all, we must serve them as we do gods. The Eskimo is a servomechanism of his kayak, the cowboy of his horse, the businessman of his clock, the cyberneticist — and soon the entire world — of his computer (My note: Wow - talk about putting it out there as if it is a foregone conclusion - back in 1969, understand - when most ordinary people had not even been introduced yet to a computer). In other words, to the spoils belongs the victor.

This continuous modification of man by his own technology stimulates him to find continuous means of modifying it; man thus becomes the sex organs of the machine world just as the bee is of the plant world, permitting it to reproduce and constantly evolve to higher forms. The machine world reciprocates man’s devotion by rewarding him with goods and services and bounty. Man’s relationship with his machinery is thus inherently symbiotic. This has always been the case; it’s only in the electric age that man has an opportunity to recognize this marriage to his own technology. Electric technology is a qualitative extension of this age-old man-machine relationship; 20th Century man’s relationship to the computer is not by nature very different from prehistoric man’s relationship to his boat or to his wheel — with the important difference that all previous technologies or extensions of man were partial and fragmentary, whereas the electric is total and inclusive. Now man is beginning to wear his brain outside his skull and his nerves outside his skin; new technology breeds new man. A recent cartoon portrayed a little boy telling his nonplused mother: “I’m going to be a computer when I grow up.” Humor is often prophecy.



It goes on for about 23 pages. There's some misdirection here, some interjected optimism to disguise the not-too-well-disguised tyrannical implications of said control over entire populations, but all this serves as an interlude into the true insanity that is the Zeitgeist manifesto document.
Infowars Wiki - Help make this become the official wiki of Infowars.com - contribute!

Offline squarepusher

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,013
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (Jacque Fresco)
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2010, 09:29:27 pm »
Jacques Freso

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Jacques_Fresco



What do we know about Jacques, other than that he is a firm believer of cybernetics?

http://www.raelpress.org/print.php?news.117

Quote
News Item: Rael Awards Title of Honorary Priest to Jacques Fresco
(Category: Press Release)
Posted by thomas
Friday 24 October 2008



Las Vegas, October 24, 2008 - Rael, founder of the International Raelian Movement (www.rael.org) has bestowed the title of Honorary Guide (AKA Honorary Priest) of the Raelian Movement to Jacques Fresco, now 92 and well known by all futurists of the world for his works like The Venus Project. He is a self-taught scientist, architect and inventor who has also been deeply committed his whole life to investigation into human behavior and humanity’s future.

"For the Prophet Rael to name Jacques an Honorary Guide (aka Honorary Priest) of the Raelian Movement means that Jacques has dedicated his life to the betterment of Humanity as a whole. Not just one country, one race, one religion, but the whole of humanity." (My note: Recognize the stench of 'one worldness, world government', right there? To be continued) declared Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, spokesperson of the Raelian Movement.
She added: "Raelians fully relate to Jacques' brilliant insight into the workings of society. Many of his proposals to redesign culture and to rebuild the world in its architecture, travel or, most importantly, society, fits with the world we contribute to build."

Mr. Fresco has researched, observed nature as well as society and has either proven or explained many things which are in complete harmony with what the Prophet Rael has been teaching for 35 years. Among these things are the notions that science should be placed at the service of humanity as a whole instead of only the rich and powerful, that competition in the world is very dangerous and comparing this to the human body by making the analogy that one organ in the body is not more important than another. One example he makes is; what if the heart were to start thinking it were the most important organ? What if the liver were to decide that it was the most important one and wanted the body to start doing things differently? Or the kidneys? If this were to happen, the body and mind would die very quickly. In other words, the body only works well when all organs operate in harmony with one another – just as all people and countries on the Earth should do in order to ensure harmony and health.

Boisselier went on to say "Maybe most importantly are his observations that human behavior is totally subjective to one’s environment and not upon one universal value system. For example, if a child is raised as a Hindu, they will have a very different value system than a child who is raised as a Christian in the US – and both children would see the world quite different from a child raised as a Muslim in the Middle East. What is considered “right and normal” for an individual is true for this individual for the reason that he or she was raised in that particular value system. This is how a few men felt very justified in flying airplanes into buildings and how Bush and some Americans felt justified in exacting revenge for such an act – even if it was disguised as “self defense”. Politicians, through the manipulation of the media and the colorization of facts, constantly capitalize on their own domestic value system in order to maintain power and wealth. Unfortunately, very few realize they are doing it.
However it is possible to change one’s value system despite the politicians and religious leaders' refined manipulation. To choose one's own system value is exactly what Rael teaches at his Raelian Seminars that now attract thousands around the world."


This is a well-researched blog post that elaborates on Jacque Fresco's ties to cybernetics and technocratic institutions going back all the way to the heady days of the Great Depression....

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=1258

Quote
“Things were so bad [during the depression] and I had no way of looking at it. And I thought the rules of the game were somehow screwed up. I went to many different meetings: communist meetings, socialist meetings, fascist meetings, Mankind United, Technocracy - to see what the world was teaching, including eastern philosophy.”

- Jacque Fresco, in “Future by Design” (0:11:43 to 0:12:06)


A couple of things have become apparent by now. Now we all know the guy's a Marxist - fair enough, some great critical thinkers like Jacques Ellul were also of the Marxist stamp - there are some Marxists with great criticism of the technological system. However, there is the issue with Technocracy, Inc. being a decidedly pro-corporatist (meaning fascist) institute. We also see the eastern religion school rearing its head again - which, I presume, made way for him being given the title Honorary Priest by Raelian cult leader Rael.

BTW, I wanted to go back to this 'one-worldness' that crept up during that Raelian press release. Here is what the Raelians think of the 'truth movement' on the Net:

Raelian cult thinks globalization is 'a wonderful trend', leading to 'the only way to save humanity: a world government'
Quote
“Space Brothers” cult leader, Rael, doesn’t like tall-tales about the “Illuminati,” or “myths …distilled through the internet [that might] … reverse the wonderful trend of globalization, which will lead us to the only way to save humanity: a world government  ending nationalism.” The “anti-globalization fanatics,” he says, through free speech on the internet, exacerbate nationalistic fervour - e.g. good ‘ole patriotism.

'Globalization' is 'a wonderful trend', which 'will lead us to the only way to save humanity, a world government ending nationalism'. GTFO! My, you don't say - Raelian cult leader turns out to be a pusher of one-world government? Theosophy Society much? A new Aleister Crowley for the brokeback 21st century Generation X/Generation Y?

But all of this is not even the most incriminating. Where things really become scary, is when you start to read the 'Manifesto' - the Zeitgeist 'Movement Guide', as they call it themselves. To be continued...
Infowars Wiki - Help make this become the official wiki of Infowars.com - contribute!

Offline ekimdrachir

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,144
  • METATRON ON
    • Go Outside
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2010, 10:07:49 pm »
nice! more?

Offline birther truther tenther

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,726
  • Against all forms of tyranny
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2010, 02:40:34 am »
I LOL'ed at 1:43:00 of the Google Video version of Zeitgeist Addendum because it shows hands in the shape of a masonic pyramid superimposed over the sun.

Staying on the cybernetic topic, ZA has a couple of good solutions for "social transformation" such as boycotting the banks, getting off the grid, and not joining the Pentagon war machine, but this one is extremely troubling:

5) Reject the Political System.
 Focus on working to dissolve the outdated system of politics in favor of technological redesign.

While the Republican-Democrat left-right paradigm is garbage, politics will NEVER go away, as long as we are "emotionalist" humans.  Peter Joseph inaccurately equates politics to the phony corporate left-right paradigm, as if you were to look up "politics" in a thesaurus, and Republican/Democrat party was a suggested synonym.   

Politics is defined by Merriam-Webster as "the total complex of relations between people living in society".  Even in the Venus Project fantasy land of resources being "common heritage" and the globe being stateless, there will still be politics.  The politics will be run by a technocratic elite who will naturally rise due to human behavior (despite VP's claims there won't be one), and the "cybernetic government" called for on Venus Project's website.  How can you claim that politics is outdated, but yet call for politics (the cybernetic GOVERNMENT) to run your fantasy society.

Here's the Cybernetic Government aka politics from the FAQ on Venus Project's website:

87.# In this new culture, do you propose to utilize a technical elite that would decide the direction for society?

No. The Venus Project calls for a cybernated society in which computers could replace the outmoded system of electing politicians that, in most cases, represent the entrenched vested interests. Technology will never dictate or monitor individuals' lives, as this would be considered socially offensive and counterproductive. Motion pictures such as 1984, Brave New World, Blade- Runner, and Terminator 2 have spawned fear in some people regarding the takeover of technology in our society. The Venus Project's only purpose is to elevate the spiritual and intellectual potential of all people while also providing the goods and services that will meet their individual material needs.

It has been said that many people employed by private corporations feel they serve in private dictatorships from the moment they step though the door and punch the time clock. The Venus Project, on the other hand, would utilize the best of technology to better the lives of everyone. In the proposed system, the workday will be shortened, thus providing individuals with more leisure time, a healthier life-style, and a stress-free environment.


#51 Will there be a government?

As to the need for government, only during the transition from a monetary based society to a cybernated high-technological resource based economy of common heritage would it be necessary to utilize the services of systems analysts, engineers, computer programmers, etc. They will not dictate the policies or have any more advantage than other people. Their job will be to carry out the restoration of the environment to near natural conditions as possible on land and in the sea. They will also economically layout the most efficient way to manage transportation, agriculture, city planning, and production. This too is always in the process of modification and updating to fit the needs of an ever-changing civilization. There are no final frontiers.


This transition stage is all that is necessary to carry out the new world order agenda.  The Venus Project is a false promise, just like Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward was a false promise.  It's to sucker the masses into submitting to cybernetics and Agenda 21's abolishment of private property rights.  Once they are trapped, there ain't no going back.

This following crap sounds like Maurice Strong's Agenda 21:

11. # What is the single most important aspect of the project?

The single most important aspect of the project is the social direction of all nations working together on the restoration of the environment in a resources-based economy. The aim is the common heritage of all Earth's resources by all of the world's people. This we see as the only process to end the present cycle of events of war, poverty, hunger, political corruption, and environmental degradation. The technology that we present can make it possible for the global population to obtain a very high standard of living one higher than ever imagined possible.

We could eventually surpass the artificial boundaries that divide people. If you fail to grasp the significance consider this: in the United States when the states joined together the militias disappeared at the borders and Americans were free of territorial disputes. This same process can be applied globally where all science and technology are utilized for the benefit of all of Earth's inhabitants.



Bye Bye national sovereignty.


#24 What would be done with the old cities?

Most of the old cities would be leveled and mined for their resources. They are too inefficient to maintain. Some of the cities would be set aside as museum cities.


Hey, that sounds like Detroit, Michigan right now! Remember this article? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5516536/US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html)

33. # What kind of change do you expect in transport?

Transportation will be rapid, clean, silent, and safe. In the new cybernated cities, mag-lev transveyors will move horizontally, vertically, and circumferentially within and without. Over long distances, people can travel in trains inside tunnels. The trains could electrically repel air away from their surface, thereby diminishing skin resistance and permitting speeds up to three thousand miles an hours. This could replace most aircraft.


46. # I was trying to think of an intermediate/bridging solution to the problem of automobile collisions. I'm curious as to his thoughts about such a common problem. 6,289,000 occur every yr.

Yes you can make cars collision proof but it is much less expensive to redesign our cities with built in transportation to any portion of the city, just as elevators are used in large buildings instead of a separate cubical operated by each person with a separate motor. These elevators transport millions of people each year without accidents or collisions.

In the interim you can put sensors on cars to diminish accidents. They can be driven by electrical motors that put the brakes on before hitting something. The sensor can help maintain a safe distance between cars but the cost would be enormous and detract from conservation of resources and the real solutions that could be worked on. This intermediary approach would be inefficient and more costly compared to redesigning the transportation system in an environment that includes this in the overall design. This type of thinking merely prolongs a more efficient system. Tying to patch up this technical infrastructure that we have is wasteful, detrimental and in the long requires more energy.

To a certain extent moving people from one place to another is considered in the overall design of modern airports with conveyers and automated trains that takes one anywhere in the airport without accidents.

Either we take on the job of conserving resources or face the consequences. It is not only the problem of accidents with cars but take for instance the mammoth undertaking they did in Boston to tunnel under the ground for more highways. It is a ridiculous and costly approach that ultimately does not take care of the problem. Also the inefficiency of the situation when there is an accident on a busy highway and people are stopped for miles. This could be true even with sensors in cars when there are other technical problems with individual cars that cause the accidents.

There are many laws for cars on the highway and when one violates the laws there is another extremely costly system in place to penalize people. All this has to be taken into account for the cost of the automobiles. There are no laws for the speed or operation of elevators that the users are confronted with. Laws are merely to deal with technical inefficiency.

The reason that Jacque redesigned the cities is that he took all the detrimental factors into account to start with. He started by designing cars that were safer but realized that was not the answer. Even suggesting that we can patch this system is putting the brakes on.

After WWII there was a good opportunity to redesign cities and solve the transportation problems but we put up the same type of inefficient infrastructures. This will demonstrate the problem with our thinking process. We have to rethink our planning and update our cities to comply with new advances in technology. It shows you how hard it is to get an overview of our social designs and pose the right questions.

We do not need to try and patch up an old established culture but we need a new type of thinking to create an ever changing emergent culture. It is dangerous and inappropriate to dwell on trying to make this system more efficient and it is actually condescending to people to perpetuate the same kind of thinking and limiting factors that got us into this mess. The nation that has no vision for the future will be surpassed by those that do. It is not really an "intermediate bridge" when you hold people and technology back by trying to make inefficient changes that only serve to delay social advances. I put John Perkins in this same category trying to make this system work (and ethical) when it is responsible for creating the problems in the first place.


Agenda 21 also calls for abolishing personal automobiles.  Venus Project calls for mandatory, as opposed to optional, public transportation.  The public transportation will be "cybernetic" of course, because 4-wheel off-roading or quading will be off limits in this society.

NOW HERE IS THE ULTIMATE KICKER!!!!!!

#52. What is the role of Cybernation as Decision Makers?

When computers eventually have sensors extended into all areas of the physical and social complex, we will be able to achieve centralization of decision-making. In a global resource-based economy, decisions would not be based on local politics but on a holistic problem solving approach.

This centralized system could be connected to research labs and universities, with all data monitored and updated constantly. Most of the technology needed for such infrastructure management is currently available. The major difference between today's computer technology and the system we recommend is that our system extends its autonomic nervous system (environmental sensors) into all areas relevant to the social complex. It coordinates a balance between production and distribution, and operates to maintain a balanced-load economy. This technology of industrial electronic feedback can be applied to the entire global economy.

For example, with electrical sensors extended into the agricultural region, computerized systems would manage and control agriculture by monitoring the water table, insects, pests, plant diseases, soil nutrients, and so forth. The information processed will enable us to arrive at more appropriate decision-making based on feedback from the environment.

Computers and artificial intelligence will serve as catalysts for change. They will establish scientific scales of performance. It is doubtful that in the latter part of the twenty-first century people will play any significant role in decision-making. Eventually, the installation of AI and machine decision-making will manage all resources serving the common good.

This will result in a more humane and meaningful approach for shaping tomorrow's civilization that is not based on the opinions or desires of a particular sect or individual. All decisions would be made on the basis of a comprehensive survey of resources, energy, and existing technology without allowing any advantage to a particular nation or select group of people.

This may be accomplished with large-scale, computer-based processors that can assist us in defining the most humane and appropriate ways to manage environmental and human affairs. This is essentially the function of government. With computers processing trillions of bits of information per second, existing technologies far exceed the human capacity for processing information and they can arrive at equitable and sustainable decisions about the development and distribution of physical resources. With this potential, we would evolve beyond political decisions made on the basis of power and advantage.


This reminds me SO MUCH of Anti_Illuminati's Vimeo-hosted video compilation called "Ptech Built Supply Chain infrastructure"   I wonder if Unisys and their ptech software will be running jacque fresco's fantasy land.

Being the anti-NWO patriot that I am, good words are decentralization, local, individual, and private.  Cuss words are centralization, common good, and global.  This Venus Project reeks with NWO rhetoric.  I will leave you off with their global governance claim:

18. By the way, what do you think about the "New World Civilization"?

I must emphasize that the approach to global governance I advocate has nothing whatever in common with the aims of an elite to form a world government with themselves and large corporations in control, with the vast majority of the population subservient to them. My vision of globalization empowers each person to be the best they can be, and to not live in subjugation to a corporate governing body.


Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2010, 03:35:45 am »
As for the part about Jacques Fresco and his vision, there is nothing written there I would not readily give my signature under.

Of course there are many problems with such concepts, but the goals themselves are not bad. It is only bad one a. has such views as their religion and b. if a group that does not really believe in this kind of change co-opts such movements for their own purposes, aka. NWO.

As for the cyberneticist guy, it still can happen and there won't be much we'll be able to do against it. Unless a person is rather well versed in rather obscure areas of thought and experience, "dehumanization" is a completely absthract thing based on "feelings." If there is any resistance against this cyberization, with the current mindset, it will be ranging from a confused one, to the vicious response of the endangered, superstitious savage that will in the end only revert us back to a more primitive era, not a conscious objection against interconnection and interdependency based on scientific fact.

Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2010, 03:44:47 am »
btw. Rael might like the guy. I guess Rael would like many of my ideas as well. That does make neither me nor Jacques a Raelian. Guilt by association, anyone?

Also, I do like many of Rael's ideals, like global community, etc., while I disagree with his religious doctrines and his stance towards many things. Rael is not the devil, he is at worst a con artist, at best a guy with interesting ideas and penchant for personal mythologism who created a cult around both that now feeds his ego... a victim of the zeitgeist (small z), in short.

Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2010, 03:52:33 am »
I know Guilt by Association is hip here but have you seen the FRUITS of nationalism latelly? WWI, WWII could not be without it; I don't argue that they were pushed by private interests, etc., but that is an argument that would rather fit well the Frescean worldview, no? That private interests run amok are dangerous?

Or look in Africa or the Caucassus. Yes, there are private interests at work but the minutiae, the day to day little wars and genocydes would be impossible without tribes having a rampant tribal mentality and nations a rampant national one. If such forces were not at work then the private interest would have to find other holes to creep in through (I am thinking religious fanaticism and tribalism would be the best bet).

I am all for the localisation of government, but not into nations; into communities based on people, and into cooperative communities that is, let me strongly emphasise that. If we took only this from the VP and left his technological ideas behind, it would make a positive impact on the world at large. Look amongst the youth of this age: If you, their fathers, mothers and older brothers, won't brainwash them into your worldview they will discontinue nationalism at large, proving it once and for all to be a dark thing of a dark past, to be remembered as Hitler was, as a "never again" thing.

Some will call me, and Fresco a "theosophist." I confess I found little fault with Blavatski, as much as I've read her. It's not my "Bible" but I don't call her a satanist either; I confess I don't know much about her views on Lucifer, so in that my mind could change, but what I've read of hers I like. She was a compilator, and a visionary of her time who looked beyond the horizon and who's followers were probably a step (or many steps) behind her. I don't find it strange that she found following and, at times, plagiators. Yes, Hitler might have liked her ideals. BIG deal. He had a whole bunch of his own and the danger was in the synergy, not in the sources. "Let's ban all sources, e.g. all knowledge, or at least all philosophy and spirituality, and we'll prevent another Hitler from appearing." Duuuuuuh....

Offline shipgeek

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,046
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2010, 05:22:52 am »
Mind (mass) control is one of the most important/serious topics.
It works - people really buy into it - we can see it every day everywhere in the world, more and more.
E MARE LIBERTAS

Offline redeux

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 751
  • I challenge any NWO member to a fist fight
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2010, 08:09:01 pm »
Mind (mass) control is one of the most important/serious topics.
It works - people really buy into it - we can see it every day everywhere in the world, more and more.

I agree... it literally surrounds us.... research and understanding are key to defending yourself and family on this front....
Protect your manhood, demand Testosterone..........

Anti_Illuminati

  • Guest
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2010, 09:04:55 pm »
The Venus Project:
The concept of no money and the aquisition of goods at a grocery store



PJ: "For example, in this society, let's say that you wanted to go to the grocery store. Well guess what, you go in, you get what you need, and you leave. That's it. Why. Why would no one steal? Because there is no reason to, they can't sell it. There is no money. There is no reason for differential advantage in a position where you can't actually engage in gaining something through abuse in society. This is a core point in why money is such a horrible invention for control. Money is the ultimate divide and conquer...."

Now there can be a few interpretations to this and I do not know which is correct. 

Interpretation 1:
Let us say that he really is talking about a world where you can truly just go in a store, take everything and it will magically reappear for the next customer.  I guess that is one possibility in the future world and thus is a valid interpretation


Interpretation 2:
Another interpretation would be that people would be conditioned to only take what they need and would never ever have any desire for more than that and then the communal "family" would be able to stock what everyone needs for that week and people would just come in and take the amount they have been pre-conditioned to want. Then the next would take only what they were preconditioned to want, and so on and so forth.  The store would be supplied via RetailLink type Wal-Mart control mechanisms and time sensitive allocation systems so that the workers/robots would be pre-programed to create/supply/distribute what was required within the preset boundaries in the master social distribution program. 

I have never seen this function in a society and think the previous interpretation might be more based in reality given man's natural competitive instincts. AJ has pointed this out on numerous occasions in the interview and admits to it being a part of his innate triggers.  PJ finally admits that man is a combination of innate desires and conditioning, but gives much more dominance to the conditioned side of man rather than the inate and non-conditioned personality/makeup.  But let us say that NWO via technology is able to condition us fully out of any competitive sense whatsoever. Then it may be conceivably possible to convert us into content humans, only having desires for products that we were pre-conditioned to want.  I suppose this is another acceptable interpretation of the "future grocery store" statement by PJ.


Interpretation 3:
There is a third interpretation that I do not think is particularly more or less "correct" but should be considered nonetheless. It actually fits in very nicely to NWO documents/CFR document/Bilderberg plans and Project Blue Beam plans.  Just read the following concerning cash and the absense of barter in the New World Order agenda (BTW Aaron Russo also talked about this when he exposed his conversation with Rockefeller):

Project Blue Beam written in 1994:

Phasing Out Cash & Independence

The techniques used in the fourth step is exactly the same used in the past in the USSR to force the people to accept Communism. The same technique will be used by the United Nations to implement the new world religion and the new world order. [...] According to the many reports we have received, we believe it will begin with some kind of worldwide economic disaster. Not a complete crash, but enough to allow them to introduce some kind of in-between currency before they introduce their electronic cash to replace all paper or plastic money. The in-between currency will be used to force anyone with savings to spend or turn in their cash because they understand that people who have money and are not dependent upon them might be the very ones who will mount an insurrection against them. If everyone is broke, no one can fund a war of any kind: paper currency will cease to exist.

So imagine the store analogy again...

PJ: "...you go in, you get what you need, and you leave."


Your implanted microchip recognizes your account, the individual items have their own chips in them, the doorway records the items and your implanted microchip. So then your socialized allowance gets marked as being given these individual items.

PJ: "That's it. Why. Why would no one steal? Because there is no reason to, they can't sell it. There is no money."

Of course no one will be allowed to sell anything.  Every single item will not only have a unique product code, but also a unique code/serial number for that specific good or service itself.  Just try buying a computer at a store, they now have individual identifyers where before they only had product numbers.  Every individual item is now slowly being tracked.  In additiion, it is not inconceivable that in the very near future home doorways (and probably waste receptacles to ensure proper recycling or termination of product use/consumption) will probably also have monitoring devices.  This would then track every single unique and numbered product that enters your doorway.  They will verify that they were taken from the store and that it was recorded that you as an individual took them from the store and that you were allowed through your allowance to take them from the store. This tracking will be based on your implanted chip, the chips in the products, and the gates/doorway tracking systems that you enter. We have already seen peculiar tracking devices on major roadways to track the goods and services in trucks. It is conceivable that this would also be done with cars.

PJ: "...There is no reason for differential advantage in a position where you can't actually engage in gaining something through abuse in society....

And then comes the socialist doctrine again: protections from abuse in society, not abuses to individuals, only in society or rather 'to' society or to the 'family.' Of course the grid/matrix will be set up so that you cannot create a 'ABUSE IN SOCIETY'.  There obviously will be 'TECHNOLOGY' to eradicate any 'ABUSE IN SOCIETY.'

PJ: "...This is a core point in why money is such a horrible invention for control. Money is the ultimate divide and conquer...."

I think he is again referring to cash and if so he could be seeing that cash and the hoarding of cash could be seen as a threat to "society" and socialized structures.   When he says "horrible invention for control" he is possibly meaning individual control over socialized constructs.  Money allows individual control, allows for the individual to use it as a common form of exchange for grnting the individual control over the societal limitations controlled via a central construct. During the great depression, the socialists were able to conduct gold seizures from homes because of it being a threat to "society."  The funny thing is, PJ mentions this in his first flick.  But I find doublespeak and Problem/Reaction/Solution agendas all over his films.


=======================

Well the point I would like to make is that the first 2 interpretations in my mind are unrealistic whereas the last one is actually an NWO plan.  I have no idea what PJ was thinking when he said this stuff, but many false leaders have been set up by NWO to preach intricate false paradigms where the hidden agenda is sometimes in plain view.

Offline MrSwe

  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
  • "We must animate the constitution" ; Alex Jones
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 09:52:06 am »
What Zeitgeist talks about is COMPLETELY THE SAME as Brave New World and 1984! Completely the same!

There is nooo diffrence except "Peter Joseph" sais the rulers will be nice and wont kill everyone,even though what they're building is nothing but a Scientific Dictatorship kill grid!



I mean these Zeitgeist guys say things like "Communism isn't radical enough".


Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 11:05:16 am »
I know Guilt by Association is hip here but have you seen the FRUITS of nationalism latelly? WWI, WWII could not be without it; I don't argue that they were pushed by private interests, etc., but that is an argument that would rather fit well the Frescean worldview, no? That private interests run amok are dangerous?

Or look in Africa or the Caucassus. Yes, there are private interests at work but the minutiae, the day to day little wars and genocydes would be impossible without tribes having a rampant tribal mentality and nations a rampant national one. If such forces were not at work then the private interest would have to find other holes to creep in through (I am thinking religious fanaticism and tribalism would be the best bet).

I am all for the localisation of government, but not into nations; into communities based on people, and into cooperative communities that is, let me strongly emphasise that. If we took only this from the VP and left his technological ideas behind, it would make a positive impact on the world at large. Look amongst the youth of this age: If you, their fathers, mothers and older brothers, won't brainwash them into your worldview they will discontinue nationalism at large, proving it once and for all to be a dark thing of a dark past, to be remembered as Hitler was, as a "never again" thing.

Some will call me, and Fresco a "theosophist." I confess I found little fault with Blavatski, as much as I've read her. It's not my "Bible" but I don't call her a satanist either; I confess I don't know much about her views on Lucifer, so in that my mind could change, but what I've read of hers I like. She was a compilator, and a visionary of her time who looked beyond the horizon and who's followers were probably a step (or many steps) behind her. I don't find it strange that she found following and, at times, plagiators. Yes, Hitler might have liked her ideals. BIG deal. He had a whole bunch of his own and the danger was in the synergy, not in the sources. "Let's ban all sources, e.g. all knowledge, or at least all philosophy and spirituality, and we'll prevent another Hitler from appearing." Duuuuuuh....

This is a false account of history in regards to the first and second world wars. It also could be said about the civil war and other wars. Although 1920s and 1930s Germany experienced a controlled hijacking of nationalistic fervor (and we all need to be extremely knowledgeable of what happened), true nationalism was exterminated. You simply need to review historical events like the vote for the enabling act, or the defection of top Germans, or just look at Valkerie. True German Nationalism was abolished in preparation for what Hitler called a New World Order. The German Constitution was nullified (not a very nationalistic thing to do) in favor of a bankster controlled falsely illuminated puppet dictator.

The revolutions that occurred in Russia, Germany, China, etc. although under the pretense of a "nationalistic" thing to do have proven to be the most nationalistically destructive ever.

I do think that your overall point is important as we must always be aware of the Glenn Beck deception which is similar to the Hitler deception that many German's lost their lives in Dresden and elsewhere for.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2010, 11:53:17 am »
Nationalism has nothing in common with a constitution. US was a strongly anti nationalistic entity when it was first the US. They were "one nation under God," but it did not mean, could not mean the union of "blood and language" which constitute the true nationalism. Basically they were a real New World Order in the good sense of the word. The end to the old monarchic system of warring nations competing for power and using individuals as pawns.

Can you think of a greater social ill than millions of young men galvanized by blood and language propaganda to go to war against other young men for some king, some tyrant? This is what your founding fathers disliked, though there was not yet the element of blood and language; I think they would puke if they saw the century that was to come after them, and the next one.

And in this respect, Hitler was pure unadulterated nationalism, so was Kaiser Wilhelm and other abominable tyrants of the century. Enough is enough is the scream of this generation; despite all the brainwashing. While it is very good and noble to go against the stale status quo, to seek the ideals in blood and language is to basically asking for a WWI type of a world. What do you think the nations without a global system somehow unifying them, NOT the NWO way but not any other way either, will do? They will turn on each other for land and resources, the world will become a great chessboard, again.

That's what we need a global system for and by the way that is why we buy into a global system. Unfortunatelly the current one is corrupt. Unfortunatelly there has not yet been such a system so it's bound to hurt; it must not be a STATE, it must be something ELSE, something untested and untried. Is ZTM the only way? No. I think it is naive. I think it is unthought about and ill protected against bad guys. But the guidelines are there: Nonviolence, money not the root of all value, non market system at the top, radical change in politics and community orientation and rampant individual liberties; is it the "Salvation?" NO, but it is a good way to go from here, that's all.


Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 01:03:43 pm »
Quote
What Zeitgeist talks about is COMPLETELY THE SAME as Brave New World and 1984! Completely the same!

There is nooo diffrence except "Peter Joseph" sais the rulers will be nice and wont kill everyone,even though what they're building is nothing but a Scientific Dictatorship kill grid!



I mean these Zeitgeist guys say things like "Communism isn't radical enough".

I actually do agree: Communism is NOT NEARLY radical enough. Communism takes the bad things from capitalism, keeps it, and adds tyranny and rubish. NO, communism is not radical enough by far, vy very very far and even for more reasons than the ZTM thinks.

BNW is about a society where the individual seeks pleasure to escape the reality of his life. This is the antithesis to ZTM.

Offline birther truther tenther

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,726
  • Against all forms of tyranny
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2010, 03:02:35 pm »
What Zeitgeist talks about is COMPLETELY THE SAME as Brave New World and 1984! Completely the same!

There is nooo diffrence except "Peter Joseph" sais the rulers will be nice and wont kill everyone,even though what they're building is nothing but a Scientific Dictatorship kill grid!



I mean these Zeitgeist guys say things like "Communism isn't radical enough".



If you would like to compare science-fiction to the Zeitgeist Addendum's proposal of the Venus Project, I believe "With Folded Hands" by Jack Williamson would be a more accurate comparison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Folded_Hands  (I only cite Wikipedia for popular culture references)

I do support "mechanicals" in the context of the aforementioned novelette, but I do not support "centralized" machines making decisions for us.

Offline squarepusher

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,013
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2010, 08:00:59 pm »
Zeitgeist Movement Guide

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf

Movement's Orientation Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3932487043163636261

No private property, no ability to own your own car, all in the name of 'sustainability' and 'communitarianism' - rental only

Quote
More powerfully, in a Resource-Based Economy there is no reason for property. Property is an outgrowth of scarcity. People who had to work very hard to create or obtain a product or resource in turn protected it because it had immense value relative to the labor entailed along with the scarcity associated. Property is not an 'American' or 'Capitalist' idea' it is a primitive mental perspective generated from generations of scarcity. People claim 'ownership' because it is a legal form of protection.

In a system of abundance, without the need for money, the idea of ownership becomes irrelevant. In this new system no one owns anything. Instead, everyone has unrestricted access to everything. Ownership is a massive burden. No longer will a person need to live in one place. One could travel the world constantly. Anything needed is obtained, without restriction. There is no reason for abuse for there is nothing to gain. You can't steal things that no one owns and you certainly couldn't sell them.


How funny, isn't the United Nations pursuing the same goal - public transportation only, heavily diminished traffic on the highways?

Quote
If you require an automobile for whatever reason, the car is made available for you. When you get to your destination, the satellite based driving system will automatically make the car available for
others to use, as opposed to sitting in some parking lot wasting space and time.

This is a comforting thought- so everything will still be TRACKED AND TRACED. However you slice or dice it, there is still not any semblance of privacy at play here, which entails: LEAVING PEOPLE THE HELL ALONE - INSTEAD OF MEASURING AND INTRUDING INTO SOMEONE'S PERSONAL SPACE.

When the WHOLE WORLD is REALLY YOUR HOME, you have no PERSONAL PRIVACY. You have no choice but to butt into others. Besides, this is such a simplistic and almost childlike worldview - to just believe that all of this will work 100% without any glitches, and as if there will be enough of these flying Blade Runner-esque cars around that they will just simply arrive on due time wherever they are required by the populace.

Quote
In this model, the city complex or, in fact, the entire world, is really your home. Instead of having extraneous items like recreational equipment and vehicles sitting about your physical house, collecting dust when they are not in use, they are stored centrally for everyone's free access, with products being utilized actively, minimizing redundant waste.

'Minimizing redundant waste'? My, it almost sounds awfully close to your 'carbon footprint'. Austerity under the guise of 'abundancy'.

Once again, ownership is to be 'shunned' - it is an 'outgrowth' of 'scarcity', an outgrowth of the predatory money system.

Oh my, the elite/oligarchy would love this scenario to bits - only THEY will have any semblance of property rights or ownership - after all, who the hell is going to own all those computers huh, that will manage the CYBERNETIC STATE, which will be the focus of the next paragraph...

Cybernetic/corporate governance

Quote
The cities on earth, in whatever form they take, are all tightly interconnected within a worldwide system. Just as each city has a central organizational dome which functions as the brain, along with its nervous system consisting of computerized environmental monitoring via satellite and electronic probes, the larger world complex absorbs each city and monitors the broader spectrum of the environment, making sure there isn't a material resource needed in any of the individual cities, while also regulating larger order processes for all cities and the environment as a whole. This 'government', if that is what you want to call it, is where the Central Database is located, as denoted in the previous chapter, with its nervous system stretching into all city complexes and beyond.

The 'Central Database' - the government - this is straight HG Wells - the 'World Brain'. Nothing about this is new, and nothing about this in any way is geared against the current ruling oligarchy.

In fact, you will find that most of the above is taken from Stafford Beer's musings on cybernetics, who proposed a management version of cybernetics. This has now been adopted across the board and has taken on a life of its own under the new term 'corporate governance'/'IT governance'. Why does the Zeitgeist guy put "government" in quotes? As if this cybernetic form of governance IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM differs from the traditional role of government - only this time, it's a process - a machine running everything.

BTW, I'm not exaggerating this. Let's look at some of Peter Joseph's other musings:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/travis-walter-donovan/the-zeitgeist-movement-en_b_501517.html

(Seriously, isn't this a dead giveaway when this liberal tabloid doesn't immediately scream 'Conspiracy theorists' or 'Nutcases' when confronted with a documentary/movement of this type? Why are the liberals getting so gung-ho for this system?)

Quote
Joseph emphasized that the solution begins with a remodeling of our social values, starting with education based on sustainability. The ideal society, proposed by the project, would have a worldwide automated computer system actively monitoring the levels of the world's surveyed resources and ranking them according to factors such as their potential, renewability, and pollution. This computer would intelligently make objective decisions as to the uses of these resources based on empirical fact, not biased legislation.

Let's deconstruct this.

1) First of all, whenever somebody talks about 'sustainability', then immediately follows it up with a whole list of things that computers will run in said utopian society, just remember that 'sustainability' - this entire green/ecological crap is just pure window-dressing. It has nothing to do with the environment - the whole ecological coat that gets wrapped over the dirty exterior that is cybernetics is there to appeal to people's inbuilt desire to 'return to nature'. Little do they know the cyberneticists' vision of 'returning to nature' is THEM (the people) combining with technology/computers in a symbiotic, interdependent relationship.

Remember Marshall McLuhan saying 'humans become the sex organs of machines'?. Remember that? You will become a cog in the machine - not a 'ghost in the machine', but a cog. Individual thought will become subservient to serving the cybernetic state - in the same way that a bee or an ant is 'programmed' to perform a specific task for the greater good of the beehive or the anthill. This is what all this stuff about 'sustainability', 'climate change' and 'greening' is about - when they mean 'returning to Mother Nature', they mean - ERADICATING your individuality and sentient, autonomous behavior and instead reducing you to the level of an ant and bee, both perfect 'societies' - hierarchically organized.

2) Secondly, Joseph makes no bones about the role of computers - they become primarchs, decision makers. This will be cybernetic governance - notice how coyly he makes lemonade out of lemons - 'Oh, this system will not be biased'. LOL - good luck arguing against a specific bill or piece of legislation when machines, rather than humans, are in charge of the decisionmaking purposes.

Which brings us onto another subject....

What does Peter Joseph/Zeitgeist Movement think about 'divergences of opinion' (supposedly the cradle of 'democracy'?)

Quote
Everything we think and 'know' are only probabilities and with modern methods of analysis, which have proven to have proactive benefits to society over long periods of time, we can now weigh our understandings and beliefs on a sliding scale, ranging from least probable to most probable, based not on human opinion or subjectivity, but on concrete feedback responses from the natural world.

See? Your opinion, according to Joseph, is just 'subjective' - their system, instead, will be based on 'pure science' (whatever the hell that is) - this cybernetic feedback system will have sensors placed all over the world, it will feed back data to the central computers with regards to population density, resource usage and (most likely) habits of the general population, and it will act accordingly.

But it gets worse - the guy really HONESTLY doesn't like 'divergences of opinion'!

The mystical 'science' as a panacea, and independent 'scientists' myth

Quote
The fact is, when a scientist tells you something is possible, he is likely correct.

However, when he states something is impossible, he is likely wrong. Science and technology have continued to defy prior assumptions of possibility, and will continue to do so. It can safely be assumed that whatever the future holds from a technological standpoint, it will likely seem impossible and 'ridiculous' from the standpoint of today's understandings and methods.


This guy excludes out of his analysis (which is stated as 'fact' here) that SCIENTISTS WORK FOR THE STATE THROUGH GRANTS. They are not INDEPENDENT. In fact, guys like Newt Gingrich (at an important conference for nano-engineering/bio-engineering/ICT), he implored scientists to 'think big, think the impossible'. This was the entire impetus behind the ARPANET - throw shit on the wall and see if some of it sticks.

How the hell is this iconoclastic or anti-authority/anti-state?

But here it comes

Central decisionmaking authority granted to computers

Quote
The same goes for every other utilitarian occupation in existence. A 'carpenter' is a person who is hired to fix or create a certain kind of structure. While there might be so called 'creative' elements to the carpenter's ways, he is still basing his decisions on physics, geometry and modern materials. If you want to build a deck, the first thing you need to know is the best available materials to use and then apply the highest integrity methodology to those materials. Those understandings are completely technical and without the need for human opinion. And this brings us to a very critical realization' one that will have a profound effect on our progress on this planet:

The delegation of decision making to computers is the next step.

The utilitarian roles that humans assume in society today are fundamentally technical by nature. This seems obvious in regard to physical labor, for we have already seen machines replace the role of humans in areas such as factories and construction. However, unrecognized by most, our mental labor is now being delegated to computers as well. If this sounds foreign to you, please note that if you have ever used a calculator, you have delegated your decision making to a machine. We must remember that logical reasoning, which is our cognitive ability to think out solutions to problems from a cause and effect standpoint, is entirely a technical process, based on the amount of information we have at any one time. For example, if we have a problem with our car, we would go to a mechanic and he would use his pattern recognition abilities and associative memory to consider the possibilities that might have caused the problem, along with the possibilities for solving the problem, based on reasoning. It is an objective, technical process.

However, a mechanic's human brain is only capable of a certain amount of memory and intellectual processing power. A modern, programmed machine on the other hand, can store tremendously more data than a human, and can consistently and rapidly process information without getting tired or lazy. For instance, let's assume we have programmed a computer with the data set consisting of the car in question. A computer has been programmed to know every component, every screw and every electronic pathway, etc., of that vehicle. It has also been programmed with the application of physics so it can relate to the actual cause and effect functionality and operation of the machine, not just its parts. When the car is taken in for repair, the mechanic recognizes the physical properties as best he can, and then he goes over to this computer, selects the model of the car and inputs a description of the problem. He might input, 'left headlight not working'. The computer would then immediately present a list of all relevant issues related to the headlight, and then present a series of framed questions to the mechanic that most logically attempt to locate the cause. The computer might say: 'Check the connection of cable 15b', and then show a diagram of where that component is located in the car. If the mechanic finds that isn't the problem, he inputs that new information into the computer and the computer goes to the next logical possibility. The computer is really making the decisions' the mechanic is just orienting its focus.

The bottom line here is that there really is no area of human operation that cannot be highly perfected by delegating decision-making processes to computer intelligence. In fact, the only thing that now separates us from machines on a cognitive, utilitarian level is our ability to create complex associations in our mind. No computer today has yet to respond effectively to being 'asked a complex question' in the English language. It requires that the language be transformed into one that it is programmed to understand, such as mathematics.


What they're proposing here should SCARE THE HELL OUT OF YOU - because this is EXACTLY what the CYBERNETICISTS (that ALREADY HOLD THE REINS OF POWER, AND ARE PART OF THE ELITE) want to bring into being. What would be the purpose of living in Peter Joseph's utopia if every important decision is best left to a computer? Moreover, why is this guy so dense?

Why does this guy not understand that I'm onto his little game by now, and millions of others as well?

Hey buddy - we have watched The Net/Das Netz. We know what BF Skinner proposed in Walden Two. We have seen blog posts where you recite entire passages from Walden Two - we know you're aware of it. We know that what you're pushing is exactly the stuff that is currently being proposed by Transhumanists/cyberneticists.

Stop MASQUERADING AS A TRUTH FIGURE - you're a CYBERNETICIST SHILL, and you know it.
Infowars Wiki - Help make this become the official wiki of Infowars.com - contribute!

Offline birther truther tenther

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,726
  • Against all forms of tyranny
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 11:53:41 pm »
The Venus Project now has a new propaganda outlet.  It's called V-radio.

One of the interviews was this airhead named Brandy Hume and in between all of her "ya knows" and "uhhs" she was talking about how we need to just get rid of money, and make everything free and plentiful.

Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2010, 03:00:12 am »
Look, unless a big disaster happens, no one stops progress. Correct? Big Disaster includes the Elite or anyone else, like a luddite rebellion, stopping progress artificially. And that just postpones the question. Plus provided you DO suceed and there is a FF like uprising all across the Europe and the USA and conservative right wins and "unethical" research gets banned. Well, either you continue supressing the rest of the world, Kissinger wise, or somewhere else there comes a movement to produce those banned products and to spread them, complete with new social ideals. Your vaunted plurality will take care of that. Endless war of principles between "capitalism and communism" or "conservative and liberal," or whatever vs. whatever. Both sides get their hands stained in blood.

So the new techs ARE comming. Now there WILL come the means and they will be most likely commercialised. The worst thing I can think of happening would be that these cybertoys, and more importantly BIO toys get to the highest bidder. THAT is the dream of the Elite. ZTM tries to go around this to make up a society where this will not happen, where people will have economic rights at the expense of some other economic rights and a few political rights. And privacy.

Now that might seem like a bummer to you, fine, but consider this: WE'LL GET THERE ANYWAYS!

How? Through more and more complex machines that require more and more complex legislation. Consider: Machines get created that prolong lives, that allow you to look through walls, to recognise people by face. That will be a huge infringement of privacy and laws will respond.
If the society is rigged, as is ours, biased towards the rich, one of two things will happen: The science gets supressed, respectively, it gets hoarded and the rich will become more and more powerful, up to the point where it will be PHYSICALLY impossible for the majority of people to have a successful uprising, because they will be sprayed by pheromones that will make them instantly happy and obedient. End of Man. End of freedom. End of privacy.

Or at best, no such uprising will be necessary, or possible, if preventive measures are taken care and we become Brave New World. We are going that way right now. Not a utopia either. Man is quite free but only if he is a Consumer, otherwise he will be shunned as not hip. He has to work, he likes it, because he is chemically brainwashed to do so. Gee, what a world I would like to live... no, wait, wrong reality. :)

So a solution must come, as Alex Collier would say, we must create a new domain of knowing. ZTM proposes that some things, things that would not be that missed, are controlled and restricted and the rest is free. This is a lot better to all the above mentioned outcomes. The solution must be global, it must be people based, there must be an end to capitalism or we become property. Wait, we already ARE property. So there must be an end to that.
Do I believe that ZTM is THE solution? NO, but it points to A solution. That is all. A radical solution and indeed, compared to that, old communism was NOT NEARLY radical enough. We don't do it, the Elite do it for us their way. We must outglobalise the globalists or our aims are too small to even try anything.

Offline Bobbychins

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2010, 08:20:42 am »
I got a lot of useful ideas and information from those movies. You all should be careful not to pick apart and fight against every single idea just because it goes against how you think the world should be ran.

It's good to expose things for what they truly are, but don't reject every idea as bad.

You can't directly fight the problem facing mankind, they're expecting that so if you choose to fight directly, you've already lost the battle.
AlbinoLime will live again.

Offline birther truther tenther

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,726
  • Against all forms of tyranny
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2010, 11:59:35 am »
You all should be careful not to pick apart and fight against every single idea just because it goes against how you think the world should be ran.

It's good to expose things for what they truly are, but don't reject every idea as bad.

Your joking right?

Picking apart everything is what we do.

If you have actually read the posts in this thread, you'll understand why we heavily criticized the Zeitgeist Venus Project.  I want my progeny to use technology to make their lives easier, not to become slaves to it.  I'm not going to suck my thumb and let my fellow anti-NWO rebels fall into a trap.

Offline Novus Ordo

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2010, 12:33:23 pm »
From H. G. Wells, "The anti-progressives of the early twentieth century loved to assert that "Human Nature" never altered; to imagine that the men of the Stone Age felt and thought like bank clerks picnicking in a cave, and the ideas of Confucius and Buddha were easily interchangeable with the ideas of Rousseau, Karl Marx or De Windt. They were not simply ignorant, but misinformed about almost every essential fact in the past experiences and present situation of the race."

The New Utopians by Robert Boguslaw: "As Norman R. F. Maier (and others) point out years ago, the term "Human Nature" is characteristically used as a screen to hide our ignorance about man in general. And one of the more elementary oversights made in discussions of human behavior consists of ignoring the fact that the actions of men are set in motion by external as well as internal forces."

As Arthur C. Clark and many other forward writers have pointed out, anyone who brings up the human nature question is naïve.

From the book Looking Forward, by Jacque Fresco:
"When little was known about cultural anthropology, sociology, and psychology, it seemed quite valid to resist proposed reforms by saying, "it won't work. It is against human nature." It is difficult for many people to appreciate the fact that what they call "human nature" just doesn't exit. People are like mirrors they largely reflect their surroundings. If people were to come into the world with a fixed "nature" consisting of automatic responses, civilization would be impossible. Like the ants, we would live out our lives in patterns that are modified but little with the passing of time. The wonderful thing about us is that we come into this world with maximum flexibility."

From The Best That Money Can't Buy, Page 89, by Jacque Fresco
Bigotry, racism, nationalism, jealousy, superstition, greed, and self-centered behavior are all learned patterns of behavior, which are strengthened or reinforced by our upbringing. These patterns of behavior are not inherited human traits or "human nature" as most people have been taught to believe. If the environment remains unaltered, similar behavior will reoccur. When we come into the world we arrive with a clean slate as far as our relationships with others are concerned.

In the final analysis, any judgment regarding undesirable human behavior serves no purpose without an attempt to alter the environment that creates it. In a society that provides for most human needs, constructive behavior would be reinforced, and people who have difficulty interacting in the community would be helped rather than imprisoned.

Aspiring to a particular ethical behavior has to do with human aspirations and ideals. Functional morality is the ability to provide a process level to achieve a sustainable environment for all people. By this, we mean providing clean air and water, goods and services, and a healthy and innovative environment that is emotionally and intellectually fulfilling. It is difficult to conceive of any solutions that would serve the interest of the majority in a monetary-based system. None of this can be accomplished without a comprehensive redesign of our social system and eventual replacement of the monetary-based system by a resource-based economy.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project-introduction/faq


Offline birther truther tenther

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,726
  • Against all forms of tyranny
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2010, 01:52:16 am »
Air Force Chief Scientist: Machines Will Boost Human Performance

Quote
The Air Force's chief scientist envisions a not so distant future where it will become necessary to blur the line between humans and machines, and even people may be taken out of the equation in some instances.

Read rest of article here:
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=197

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2010, 07:05:39 am »
I got a lot of useful ideas and information from those movies. You all should be careful not to pick apart and fight against every single idea just because it goes against how you think the world should be ran.

It's good to expose things for what they truly are, but don't reject every idea as bad.

You can't directly fight the problem facing mankind, they're expecting that so if you choose to fight directly, you've already lost the battle.

They are playing a zero sum game and when the sub-elite realize they are not in the club, they will likely go hide in their "illuminated" caves for another few hundred years.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

EvadingGrid

  • Guest
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2010, 07:10:43 am »
They are playing a zero sum game and when the sub-elite realize they are not in the club, they will likely go hide in their "illuminated" caves for another few hundred years.

These sub-elites should go and read what happened to Hilter's S.A. Stormtroopers once they had out lived their purpose.

worcesteradam

  • Guest
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2010, 06:28:43 pm »
Now confirmed NWO forays into science

1. Post-Normal science
2. Complexity Science


Offline squarepusher

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,013
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2010, 06:40:49 pm »
This is a gem of a picture that worcesteradam posted.
Infowars Wiki - Help make this become the official wiki of Infowars.com - contribute!

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2010, 06:55:06 pm »
This is a gem of a picture that worcesteradam posted.

In case people are unaware, that picture exposes the actual origin points of a good 90% of the total matrix of perception and direction of the perception we will see in the future...mixed in with shifts in actual physical constraints to freedom, identity, family, sovereignty, religion, labor, education, healthcare, consumption, and ongoing behavioral modification.

ditto...one gem of a picture. I have never seen before a single image identifying points of origin and communicating their contribution in energizing the bullet train toward dehumanization we all currently are on.

When you are wondering "why are they putting a 3-D image of a girl chasing a ball in a street in front of cars?"

or "why are they still using DU?"

or "why are they bankrupting the country and all the politicians are not stopping it?"

or "what is this globalization stuff?"

or "why are they so bent on UAV's when there are no threats that require them?"

or "why do they need to keep a eugenics behavioral file on every citizen with full spectrum anti-constitutional surveillance?"

etc.

chances are good one of the people in that chart wrote a white paper, novel, article, etc. explaining almost everything going on right now.

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

worcesteradam

  • Guest
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2010, 05:48:40 am »
The Santa Fe Institute (SFI) is a non-profit research institute located in Santa Fe (New Mexico, United States) and dedicated to the study of complex systems. It was founded in 1984 by George Cowan, David Pines, Stirling Colgate, Murray Gell-Mann, Nick Metropolis, Herb Anderson, Peter A. Carruthers, and Richard Slansky. All but Pines and Gell-Mann were scientists with Los Alamos National Laboratory.
Current research at the Institute focuses on a set of areas commonly described as complex systems, including both physical, evolutionary, and social systems. Recent research has included the emergence of metabolic networks in early life, metabolic and ecological scaling laws, the evolutionary diversity of HIV strains, the interactions and conflicts of primate social groups, the order book of stock markets, and the emergence of inequality in prehistoric human groups. The Institute also studies foundational topics in the physics and mathematics of complex systems, using tools from related disciplines such as information theory, combinatorics, computational complexity theory and condensed matter physics. Recent research in this area has included studies of phase transitions in NP-hard problems.

I just found out Cormac McCarthy, author of 'The Road', is on the faculty there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Institute

Offline birther truther tenther

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,726
  • Against all forms of tyranny
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2010, 02:32:22 am »


Read this:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10262/1088732-115.stm





Quote
He provocatively ended it by telling the students: "Hopefully you'll all want to join me as a cyborg of the future, or decide if you want to be part of this subspecies called humans."

About Kevin Warwick
http://www.kevinwarwick.com/

Offline blissentia

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2010, 11:47:11 pm »
This is actually a very good documentary on Zeitgeist. I disagree with a lot of it, but it is probably one of the best things I've seen to come from a hardcore Christian viewpoint. It's called "Aquarius: The Age of Evil":

1) http://vimeo.com/12324551

2) http://vimeo.com/12335160

3) http://vimeo.com/12336192

Offline blissentia

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2010, 11:53:34 pm »
If you are a Christian, you will really appreciate that documentary. If not, it is still very much worthwhile.

worcesteradam

  • Guest
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2010, 07:04:45 am »
COAST TO CAST AM - Tonights show

1am - 5am ET
10pm - 2am PT

Cyborgs and A.I. (Wed 10-06)
Professor of Cybernetics at the University of Reading, England, Kevin Warwick will discuss his research in artificial intelligence, control, robotics and cyborgs.

mp3 archive
http://coast.gmms.ca/#cgi-bin/cjob.pl

worcesteradam

  • Guest
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2010, 07:04:45 pm »
Project Cybersyn was a Chilean attempt at real-time computer-controlled planned economy in the years 1970–1973 (during the government of president Salvador Allende). It was essentially a network of telex machines that linked factories with a single computer centre in Santiago, which controlled them using principles of cybernetics. The principal architect of the system was British operations research scientist Stafford Beer.

After the military coup on September 11, 1973, the control centre was destroyed.

Offline blissentia

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2010, 08:29:39 pm »
Admission by Roxanne Meadows, partner of Jacques Fresco - Venus Project associated with Green Cross International and UN Earth Charter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vt8vPxwCBk&feature=player_embedded#!


Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2010, 04:06:44 am »
Booo, hooo, a Guilt-By-Association-Fest.

Plus, the UN is threated there as if it was the Nazi Axis or something. If I was running the Venus Project, I would also go to these people, to the UN and if I understand what the Gorbatchev Fuondation is, why not? The UN is a big and byzantine organization and if you mention it to most people, I'd guess even the many people who actually work for the outer branches of the UN, they would really not think about "NWO" or Eugenics. The VP makes it quite clear that the UN would be abolished anyways, because there would be no more nations to be united and this byreaucratic moloch would only cost resources to keep alive (or on a deathbed, rather).

I don't doubt many UN people, founders, who came out of the thirties and the twenties, when eugenics qua eugenics was hip and after the horrors of WWII, they might have dreamed about a new and better world order made by humans, since many, many people gave up on God after seeing the Auswitz camp et alia, especially Jewish people. I don't think this is good, but I am afraid it was only natural. Still, I feel a bit safer in a world that has the UN or the EU, because there are mechanism to control rabid nation states, or otherwise rabid nation states, and to prevent them from being controlled by agressive particularist dictators and starting stupid wars. Of course we have to protect ourselves now from other threats which the UN can not prevent (like global conspiracies that would seek to misuse the UN), but that is not the matter at hand.

And the later part is twisting Roxanne's words, obviously. She could not have had prepared her statements, a first grade law student will tell you that by "not adressing" the UN she meant at first the UN as whole and that if they try to "point out a lie" when she later spoke about talking at an UN sponsored meeting they obviously did not account for this. This is just about as quality a material as those numerous debunkumentaries on YouTube, including some that debunk the 9/11 truth movement. But I guess this one holds the party line, so it's all hip and OK...?

I don't think Roxanne or Jacques are saints, but I think they have some very good ideas about future society, ideas that should be disseminated amongst the populace in order to wake it up on issues that are TRULY interesting for The People today. The "struggle for freedom and democracy" obviously does not fill the bill anymore.

Offline Novus Ordo

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2010, 05:57:20 am »
Admission by Roxanne Meadows, partner of Jacques Fresco - Venus Project associated with Green Cross International and UN Earth Charter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vt8vPxwCBk&feature=player_embedded#!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g


Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580

Offline squarepusher

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,013
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2011, 11:25:20 am »
Booo, hooo, a Guilt-By-Association-Fest.

Plus, the UN is threated there as if it was the Nazi Axis or something. If I was running the Venus Project, I would also go to these people, to the UN and if I understand what the Gorbatchev Fuondation is, why not? The UN is a big and byzantine organization and if you mention it to most people, I'd guess even the many people who actually work for the outer branches of the UN, they would really not think about "NWO" or Eugenics. The VP makes it quite clear that the UN would be abolished anyways, because there would be no more nations to be united and this byreaucratic moloch would only cost resources to keep alive (or on a deathbed, rather).

I don't doubt many UN people, founders, who came out of the thirties and the twenties, when eugenics qua eugenics was hip and after the horrors of WWII, they might have dreamed about a new and better world order made by humans, since many, many people gave up on God after seeing the Auswitz camp et alia, especially Jewish people. I don't think this is good, but I am afraid it was only natural. Still, I feel a bit safer in a world that has the UN or the EU, because there are mechanism to control rabid nation states, or otherwise rabid nation states, and to prevent them from being controlled by agressive particularist dictators and starting stupid wars. Of course we have to protect ourselves now from other threats which the UN can not prevent (like global conspiracies that would seek to misuse the UN), but that is not the matter at hand.

And the later part is twisting Roxanne's words, obviously. She could not have had prepared her statements, a first grade law student will tell you that by "not adressing" the UN she meant at first the UN as whole and that if they try to "point out a lie" when she later spoke about talking at an UN sponsored meeting they obviously did not account for this. This is just about as quality a material as those numerous debunkumentaries on YouTube, including some that debunk the 9/11 truth movement. But I guess this one holds the party line, so it's all hip and OK...?

I don't think Roxanne or Jacques are saints, but I think they have some very good ideas about future society, ideas that should be disseminated amongst the populace in order to wake it up on issues that are TRULY interesting for The People today. The "struggle for freedom and democracy" obviously does not fill the bill anymore.

You feel safer in a world with the UN and the EU, because they 'protect' you against 'rabid nation states'?

ROFLMAO. Boy the propaganda UNESCO (ie: your school/university) put out did a great number on you - you're more collectivist than the Soviets are in terms of your reasoning faculties.

Why are you even here on this forum if you don't understand the basic fundamentals of the enemy you're facing? It's kind of pointless really.
Infowars Wiki - Help make this become the official wiki of Infowars.com - contribute!

Offline birther truther tenther

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,726
  • Against all forms of tyranny
Re: The Cybernetics Thread (PLUS: Zeitgeist/Venus Project: Exposed)
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2011, 11:46:23 am »
Booo, hooo, a Guilt-By-Association-Fest.

Plus, the UN is threated there as if it was the Nazi Axis or something. If I was running the Venus Project, I would also go to these people, to the UN and if I understand what the Gorbatchev Fuondation is, why not? The UN is a big and byzantine organization and if you mention it to most people, I'd guess even the many people who actually work for the outer branches of the UN, they would really not think about "NWO" or Eugenics. The VP makes it quite clear that the UN would be abolished anyways, because there would be no more nations to be united and this byreaucratic moloch would only cost resources to keep alive (or on a deathbed, rather).

I don't doubt many UN people, founders, who came out of the thirties and the twenties, when eugenics qua eugenics was hip and after the horrors of WWII, they might have dreamed about a new and better world order made by humans, since many, many people gave up on God after seeing the Auswitz camp et alia, especially Jewish people. I don't think this is good, but I am afraid it was only natural. Still, I feel a bit safer in a world that has the UN or the EU, because there are mechanism to control rabid nation states, or otherwise rabid nation states, and to prevent them from being controlled by agressive particularist dictators and starting stupid wars. Of course we have to protect ourselves now from other threats which the UN can not prevent (like global conspiracies that would seek to misuse the UN), but that is not the matter at hand.

And the later part is twisting Roxanne's words, obviously. She could not have had prepared her statements, a first grade law student will tell you that by "not adressing" the UN she meant at first the UN as whole and that if they try to "point out a lie" when she later spoke about talking at an UN sponsored meeting they obviously did not account for this. This is just about as quality a material as those numerous debunkumentaries on YouTube, including some that debunk the 9/11 truth movement. But I guess this one holds the party line, so it's all hip and OK...?

I don't think Roxanne or Jacques are saints, but I think they have some very good ideas about future society, ideas that should be disseminated amongst the populace in order to wake it up on issues that are TRULY interesting for The People today. The "struggle for freedom and democracy" obviously does not fill the bill anymore.

I think your post will fall on deaf ears, because you are regurgitating the elite's party line verbatim.

"Rabid nation states" was a talking point to usher in the League of Nations, but I guess that is "guilt-by-association" so I better not bring that up.

I'm not calling you an agent, or COINTELPRO or any of that silly nonsense, I just think you are simply on the wrong forum.  It would be like me going onto a Ford truck Forum and making posts about I much I love Chevys and hate Fords.  I would be wasting everyone's time, including my own.

The cybernetic government specifically promoted in Zeitgeist must be resisted.  I've posted all kinds of research on the Cybernetics subject, and I am not liking what I am seeing.  That's not guilt by association, that's calling a spade a spade, or a duck a duck.

Offline Michal Ptacnik

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,580
So you liked the pre WWI world better? I don't know, but there were wars in Europe back then, this is now unthinkable. You can not turn back. Do I want to just go forward after any progress, whatsoever, regardless of consequences? No. But I am afraid luddite like resistance that looks in the rear mirror for solution will only help the pirates in the end, that is why I am posting this on the truth forum.

Do you have to be friends with the ZT-people? No. I am just showing the two of you are not so dissimilar. It is a problem when you assign labels to ideas and people without thinking them through. They are your allies, not your enemies.