Author Topic: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?  (Read 18511 times)

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Offline jimd3100

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"Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« on: July 28, 2010, 02:32:58 am »
He seems to be Naval Aide Douglas Cochrane. I'll get to how he is identified in a moment. First.....

The 9-11 commission has this scenario in the PEOC, instead of the one described by N Mineta.....

"At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft. His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President. The military aide returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to engage. The Vice President again said yes"
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

This may or may not be true, but the fact is Cheney can't prove it(the part of him getting shoot down authorization), what Cheney is doing is protecting the President, along with Sec of Def Rumsfeld, who are the only two people authorized to issue shoot down orders. Neither one did so, and conspired together not to.................

"Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense)." page 17/46
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Looks like we have some selective amnesia there doesn't it?

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot."  Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31." 
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

The official story is probably right, about the passengers having to take over 93, because no one was authorizing any shoot down order, until the attacks were over. It's a proveable fact that no shoot down orders were given until after the last plane (Flight 93) went down. It's very unlikely a pilot would take it upon himself to kill a plane load of civilians without authorization.

If the President gave Cheney an order, and it was a shoot down order they can't prove it. They should be able to do that. Besides, the last plane (flight 93) went down at 10:03 or 10:06, It's a proveable fact that no shoot down orders were given before that time. Instead the proof indicates....

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

"The Vice President's military aide told us he believed the Vice President spoke to the President just after entering the conference room, but he did not hear what they said. Rice, who entered the room shortly after the Vice President and sat next to him, remembered hearing him inform the President, "Sir, the CAPs are up. Sir, they're going to want to know what to do." Then she recalled hearing him say, "Yes sir." She believed this conversation occurred a few minutes, perhaps five, after they entered the conference room."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Among the sources that reflect other important events of that morning, there is no documentary evidence for this call, but the relevant sources are incomplete."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.pdf

This is where the military aide's testimony would be crucial, what was the order he was given?  But again......even if he says it was a shoot down order, it came from Cheney, and he and Bush (who insisted on testifying together) can't prove it, and Cheney is protecting Bush and Rumsfeld both, who never did issue shoot down orders.

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft  if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

That's when Bush issued the shoot down order. 10:20 Rumsfeld never did.

"Bush remained in the classroom for "five to seven minutes" after learning of the second crash as the children around him continued reading. He had his first conversation with Cheney at about 9:15."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17_2.html

But wasn't issuing shoot down authorization. How come? How many buildings does it take? How about if the pentagon gets hit, how about then? Still.....Nope.......

"Bush and Cheney spoke again at 9:45, while Bush was on the tarmac aboard Air Force One. By that time, both towers of the World Trade Center were aflame and the Pentagon had been hit."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17_2.html

Pretty outrageous. Still, no intention on giving shoot down authority.

The last plane went down at 10:03 to 10:06...most likely by the passengers. These passengers were in a no win situation, but surely prevented 9/11 from being even more catastrophic than it already was, the nations capital was it's target. 

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes, Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Here's Condi Rice lying to you.....

"Q At one point that morning, the President gave an order to the Combat Air Patrol pilots giving them permission to shoot down U.S. commercial airliners. How did that decision come about, and how did you take on board the gravity of that decision?

DR. RICE: The President did give the order to shoot down a civilian plane if it was not responding properly. And it was authority through channels by Secretary Rumsfeld, and the Vice President passed the request, the President said yes."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16571537/T3-B11-EOP-Produced-Documents-Vol-III-Fdr-8602-Terry-MoranABC-Interview-of-Rice-003

John Farmer exposes this false statement in his book "The Ground Truth"......

"The authority was not requested through channels, when Secretary Rumsfeld joined the Air Threat Conference Call at 10:30 and was told about the shoot down order by Vice President Cheney, he was clearly unaware of it. Wether the vice president had requested prior authorization from the president is disputed, but uncorroborated by the records of the day."  page 260
http://www.amazon.com/Ground-Truth-Untold-America-Attack/dp/1594488940/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260588203&sr=1-1

Cheney made the command on his own (no matter what it was) The first authorization came at 10:20, according to Arie Fletcher's notes and he was taking notes for this reason, to keep track of what time things were happening for historical purposes.

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

Remember:

"At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft. His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

If he did authorize shoot down, he told the President later....here, after he already did it, if he didn't issue a shoot down, he was given the authorization at this later time, after the fact......

But Cheney is not in the Military Chain of Command or part of the NCA- he doesn't have the authority to issue shoot down orders. 

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

This is not what Mineta said by a long shot. Mineta said he didn't even know it was a shootdown order, he makes it clear he that he heard what Cheney said and quotes him. (Whipped his neck around and said "of coarse the order still stands"...etc...)

Libby has already been convicted in a court of Law of lying under oath to protect Cheney. So this story seems false and contrived. This Military Aide's testimony is important. So who is he?

The person telling Cheney the plane is 80 miles out...60 miles out...etc...is described as his "Military Aide". This would be the "young man" as Mineta described him. Unless there are two different people telling Cheney the plane is 80 miles out...the plane is 60 miles out....this seems extremely unlikely. So who is this military aide?

Check the footnotes, on this scenario, and the only one that applies to Cheney and the "Military Aide" would be this Douglas Cochrane.....

"215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004); Condeleeza Rice meeting (Feb. 7, 2004). For Rice entering after the Vice President, see USSS report,“Executive Summary:U.S. Secret Service Timeline of Events, September 11–October 3, 2001,” Oct. 3, 2001, p. 2; Carl Truscott interview (Apr. 15, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

We know who Rice is. Truscott is a member of the secret service because....
"interviews of the 3 USSS agents in proximity to the President (Eddie Marenzel) and VP (Truscott and Zotto) are still on hold."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15740811/DM-B8-Team-8-Fdr-Email-From-Hyde-to-Front-Office-Re-White-House-Day-of-Investigation-511

Yes, they wanted to talk with this Military Aide as seen in this released 9-11 commission memo....

"March 2, 2004
New Requests:
(2)VP Military Aide (I believe his last name is Cochrane): The person at the Vice President's side in the PEOC who should have been intimately involved in the military communications chain is his military aide."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/15740811/DM-B8-Team-8-Fdr-Email-From-Hyde-to-Front-Office-Re-White-House-Day-of-Investigation-511

They did talk with him according to the 9-11 commission footnotes, a month and a half after that memo....

"215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004);"
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

But we can't see what was said in that interview yet.....

"ACCESS RESTRICTED
The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file:
Folder Title: White House Timelines"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274489/DH-B3-White-House-Timelines-Fdr-Entire-Contents-Doug-Cochrane-and-14-Withdrawal-Notice-for-Draft-Time-Lines-089

This is BS. It's 2010 and we still can't see any part of his interview? This needs to be declassified and released.

Yup, he's military...,,young?...you have to remember Mineta was around 71 at the time......

"Cochrane was selected to serve as the Naval Aide to the Vice President in November of 2000 and served Vice President Richard B. Cheney until December 2002. He was commended by President George W. Bush for distinguished service as Naval Aide and Emergency Action Officer, on and about Sept. 11, 2001."
http://www.mayportmirror.com/stories/040705/may_hsl44001.shtml

Beliefs Always Trump Truth and Perception Always Trumps Reality

Offline jimd3100

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2010, 07:27:27 pm »

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Looks like we have some selective amnesia there doesn't it?

Watch as these lying traitors change their story.......

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."  -- 9-11 Commission
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

After they talked to the 9-11 Commission, their amnesia was cured. In 2007 author Robert Draper had full access to interview members of the Bush administration for a book including 6 interviews with Bush himself, you can hear him say it here (it's also said on the cover flap of the book he wrote called "Dead Certain")...........

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/8682

Now Bush claims that is exactly what he and Rumsfeld talked about...LOL! These guys are pathetic, it's interesting to see that they now claim, Mineta was correct, Cheney was in the Bunker when the pentagon was hit and The VP Military Aide came in for both flight 77 AND 93.......

What makes Mineta particulary believable is that he should have known wether or not the pentagon was hit by 10:07 (the time the 9-11 Commission is trying to place him in the bunker)because I knew it, and I knew it because I have a TV.....and so did they....

"In the bunker Cheney sat across the table from Secretary of Transportation Norm Mineta, who was talking on the phone to Federal Aviation Administration deputy administrator Monte Belger. An aide to the VP had stepped into the room to inform Cheney that the plane that had been fifty miles outside Washington was now thirty miles away. Then ten miles away. Belger told Mineta that the plane's transponder had been turned off, that the FAA could follow it's progress only on the radar screen."
A minute later, Belger said, "Uh-oh. We just lost the target."
"Where do you think you lost it"? asked Mineta.
"Somewhere between Pentagon City and Reagon National Airport."
Just then a voice cut in: "Mr Secretary, we just had a confirmed report by an Arlington County police officer that he saw an American Airlines plane going into the Pentagon."


Condi Rice saw the televised image in the Situation Room --page 138
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

Later...

"There were 4,546 planes in the air. One of them, Flight 93, was causing particular concern as it U- turned from its westward passage to S.F. and now barreled toward Washington. From Air Force One, Bush conferred with Cheney, who wanted to know if he could be granted authorization to shoot down any planes that failed to respond to orders."
"After finally getting hold of Rumsfeld and discussing the shoot-down procedure with him, Bush called Cheney back. "You bet," he said."
-- page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

"After finally getting hold of Rumsfeld and discussing the shoot-down procedure with him, Bush called Cheney back."
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

That's not what he and Rumsfeld told the 9-11 Commission, they both came down with amnesia .........

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

This is called getting caught in a lie.

"Look at that!" someone called out, and everyone in the bunker glanced at the TV screen. It was 9:59. ...The South Tower of the WTC collapsed." --page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

Like I said...they had TVs in the room, we all knew the pentagon was hit by 10:00 so how could Mineta not?

"A military aide approached Cheney and requested permission to engage flight 93 with fighter planes. "Yes," the VP said-so calmly that the aide thought Cheney hadn't understood the question. So he asked it a second time, and then a third." --page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

The low ranking guards at Abu Ghraib prison went to jail. "Just following orders" is not a defense for carrying out illegale orders. I was in the military, and you are not allowed to carry out illegale orders. For instance if the Secretary of Agriculture, or the Postmaster General ordered the Military to kill a plane of civilians, that would be an illegale order, because......

"Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense)." page 17/46
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

They would not follow that order because these Generals know it's an illegale order. The VP doesn't have that authority either. Which probably explains why only at 10:31 was the order relayed, after the President authorized it........

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Claiming Incompetence isn't going to work. Sec Rumsfeld has two records. He is the youngest Sec of Defense ever, and he is the oldest Sec of Defense ever, in other words, he is the most experianced Sec of Def in American history....

"When he was confirmed in 2001, Rumsfeld became both the youngest and the oldest person to serve as secretary of defense."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Inauguration/story?id=122155

And Cheney was a former Sec of Defense himself. Claiming incompetence doesn't fly.

Bush and Rumsfeld conducted the stand down. Cheney attempted to cover for them.

Cheney is protecting these traitors, Rumsfeld deserted his post and has never been held accountable, and Bush's Saudi and CIA friends assisted the hijackers, and he covered that up like the traitor that he is........

We need Cochranes interview released, to see what he says in regards to the questions they went over with him which can be seen here (Page 7/14).....
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274489/DH-B3-White-House-Timelines-Fdr-Entire-Contents-Doug-Cochrane-and-14-Withdrawal-Notice-for-Draft-Time-Lines-089
Beliefs Always Trump Truth and Perception Always Trumps Reality

Offline 911harleyguy

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2010, 07:19:31 am »
In the 9/11 documentary The Secret History of 9/11, they state that after Bush's motorcade left they made a wrong turn. and that Bush couldn't make any phone calls. To which I would like to point out-

If you knew 9/11 was going to happen and your orders were to stall and drag your feet, then Bush scores a 10!

1. Bush stays in a classroom to show strength and resolve- whoever wrote this shit should get an award. Yes, the most important thing you can do as commander in chief when the nation is under terrorist attack is show strength and resolve in front of five year olds.
2. Bush stays in that chair longer than any man that was really worried about his nation being under attack could stay in that chair. Would Eisenhower have stayed in that chair? Kennedy? Nixon? 41? Reagan? Clinton? Do you really think these men would have stayed seated that long? Bush in that single moment really showed he was not leading our nation and his incapacity to think like a leader, unless, that was the script, unless that is what he was told to do.
3. The motorcade makes mistakes in getting to the plane? again, unless that was the plan, the driver should have his head chopped off. People are dying and Bush is making U Turns...
4. Bush diligently tries to connect his calls and can't. He has to borrow a cell phone but can't get reception... BUT THE MOTHERf**kING PASSENGERS ON ALL THE FLIGHTS SEEM TO HAVE NO f**kING PROBLEMO CONNECTING THEIR CALLS.
5. And now, the cherry on the Sunday- the SEC records are conveniently destroyed or just simply off limits to all those inquiring minds.

9/11 was an inside job. I have personally gone back and forth on where I stand. Look, I am not a prick, I want to believe our government is good and has our best intentions as Americans in their sites. This isn't about Dorothy and the Tin Man. This is about OZ and world f**king domination. and Oil. 9/11 was an inside job. We live in a sick f**king world. Bush will never see a courtroom. Congress just made it crystal f**king clear.
AGAINST ALL ENEMIES. FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y

Offline 911harleyguy

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2010, 09:39:25 am »
THE WHOLE THING STINKS. 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.

not knowing who paid for 9/11 is not a big deal.
not knowing who benefited from 9/11 is not a big deal.
not knowing who backed 9/11 (foreign governments) is not a big deal.
not knowing who profited via put options on 9/11 is not a big deal.
we are not afraid to go after Martha Stewart, but we will not go after inside traders on 9/11, again, not a big deal.
we will not "really investigate" 9/11 or all the bat shit crazy coincidences or happenings surrounding 9/11, again not a big deal.
it is OK that Bush did not want a full inquiry into 9/11 and waited 411 days before lackadaisically investigating it first with Kissinger? red flags? and finally Zelikow, a friend of Condi Rice's and on Bush's team- no conflict of interest there- again not a big deal.
Bush and Cheney tell the 9/11 commission to "back off" there investigation in sensitive areas. again, not a big deal.
Condi lying through her teeth under oath, not a big deal.
Powell lying through his teeth to the UN, not a big deal.
Donald Rumsfeld, our Secretary of Defense, had no clue what was going on on 9/11, instead of defending our country he is on the Pentagon lawn picking up pieces, helping out, remember he heard a loud boom and ran outside to see what had happened, his TV wasn't on in the warroom and no one had informed him that 1&2 were hit, again, not a big deal.
and on and on and on...
AGAINST ALL ENEMIES. FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y

Offline jimd3100

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2010, 10:02:26 am »
If you knew 9/11 was going to happen and your orders were to stall and drag your feet, then Bush scores a 10!

And Rumsfeld deserves an even higher score

THE WHOLE THING STINKS. 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.

Donald Rumsfeld, our Secretary of Defense, had no clue what was going on on 9/11, instead of defending our country he is on the Pentagon lawn picking up pieces, helping out, remember he heard a loud boom and ran outside to see what had happened, his TV wasn't on in the warroom and no one had informed him that 1&2 were hit, again, not a big deal.
and on and on and on...

Yup, if one pays attention, the lies are obvious and pathetic, but Rumsfeld was informed of both airstrikes, he just assumed pilots were having a bad day and they were accidents, truly pathetic....

Rumsfelds' story is....he didn't know anything about any terrorist attacks until after the pentagon was hit.
From the 9/11 commission itself....
8:19 Flight attendant notifies AA of hijacking
8:25 Boston Center aware of hijacking
8:38 Boston Center notifies NEADS of hijacking
8:46 NEADS scrambles Otis fighter jets in search of AA 11
8:46:40 AA 11 crashes into 1 WTC (North Tower)


"Aubrey Davis of the Pentagon police was standing outside Donald Rumsfeld's office on the third floor of the Pentagon's E ring. Inside, Rumsfeld, though aware that the World Trade Center towers in New York had already been hit, was proceeding with his regularly scheduled CIA briefing. Davis, on the other hand, had concluded from watching TV news that the country was under attack and the pentagon might be a target."    page 1
http://www.amazon.com/Rumsfeld-Rise-Fall-Catastrophic-Legacy/dp/B000WPKKO4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203950204&sr=8-1
 
On the morning of September 11, Secretary Rumsfeld was having breakfast at the Pentagon with a group of members of Congress. He then returned to his office for his daily intelligence briefing. The Secretary was informed of the second strike in New York during the briefing; he resumed the briefing while awaiting more information. After the Pentagon was struck, Secretary Rumsfeld went to the parking lot to assist with rescue efforts.  -- 9-11 Commission
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"The Secretary was informed of the second strike in New York during the briefing; he resumed the briefing while awaiting more information. After the Pentagon was struck, Secretary Rumsfeld went to the parking lot to assist with rescue efforts."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Nope, no shoot down orders coming from that guy.....how obvious and pathetic....and they let him get away with this sh*t.

When Flight 77 hit, the defense secretary thought it was a bomb.
"I had no idea," Rumsfeld said on ABC's This Week.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/16/pentagon-timeline.htm

King: It was a jarring thing. And you ran toward the smoke?
Rumsfeld: Uh huh.
King: Because?
Rumsfeld: Goodness. Who knows? I wanted to see what had happened.

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=260

Lies and more lies.....

“The overwhelming bulk of the evidence was that this was an attack that was likely to take place overseas.”   -- C Rice
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?the_post-9/11_world=denials&timeline=complete_911_timeline

Title of Aug 6 Memo Given to President Bush "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S."
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066154

"After finally getting hold of Rumsfeld and discussing the shoot-down procedure with him, Bush called Cheney back."
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Presidency-George-Bush/dp/0743277287

Nope.....he wont say that to the 9-11 commission, he'll get amnesia......

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

BTW the 9-11 Commission was fully aware of Bush and Rumsfelds' stand down and the role  Cheney played, and actually expose it, if their report is read carefully, the report was of coarse watered down........

"NEWSWEEK has learned that some on the commission staff were, in fact, highly skeptical of the vice president's account and made their views clearer in an earlier draft of their staff report. According to one knowledgeable source, some staffers "flat out didn't believe the call ever took place."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251871/site/newsweek/

Lies Lies and more Lies.....

The Washington Times
Jets had orders to shoot at airliners
September 17, 2001


"Minutes after terrorists crashed hijacked planes into the World Trade Center, President Bush ordered military jets into the air around Washington with orders to shoot down any airliner that refused to turn away from the city, Vice President Richard B. Cheney said yesterday."
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EE9861D0C1AD826&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

Minutes? No, it was well over an hour later when the attacks were over. This is a deliberate lie.

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf


"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Mr. Bush said yesterday he gave the order from Florida on Tuesday morning when he realized "we were under attack."
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EE9861D0C1AD826&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

LIE...he gave the order after he found out the last plane crashed.......

"The time of notification of the crash of United 93 was 10:15."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5233007

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf

Lie

"DR. RICE: "The President did give the order to shoot down a civilian plane if it was not responding properly. And it was authority through channels by Secretary Rumsfeld, and the Vice President passed the request, the President said yes."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16571537/T3-B11-EOP-Produced-Documents-Vol-III-Fdr-8602-Terry-MoranABC-Interview-of-Rice-003

"The authority was not requested through channels, when Secretary Rumsfeld joined the Air Threat Conference Call at 10:30 and was told about the shoot down order by Vice President Cheney, he was clearly unaware of it. Wether the vice president had requested prior authorization from the president is disputed, but uncorroborated by the records of the day."  page 260
http://www.amazon.com/Ground-Truth-Untold-America-Attack/dp/1594488940/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260588203&sr=1-1

"I gave our military the orders necessary to protect Americans; do whatever it would take to protect Americans. And of course, that's difficult. Never in anybody's thought process about how to protect America did we ever think that the evil-doers would fly not one but four commercial aircraft into precious U.S. targets, never," said the president
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EE9861D0C1AD826&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

Never in anybody's thought process about how to protect America did we ever think that the evil-doers would fly not one but four commercial aircraft into precious U.S. targets, never," said the president
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EE9861D0C1AD826&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

Really? Lie.....

"We told the Americans about the plans to turn planes into flying bombs as far back as 1995," he complained to reporters."  -- Gen. Avelino "Sonny" Razon, one of the lead investigators in the Bojinka case
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bust_and_boom.html

"Our investigation has further determined that the use of airplanes as weapons has been widely known for years within the intelligence community in the United States, France and other countries, as a potential strategy to be carried out by Usama Bin laden and his terrorist network."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14863615/T2-B10-Motley-Submission-Fdr-French-Intelligence-Passed-to-the-US-Moussaoui-Planes-as-Weapons-Widely-Known-698

Six years before the September 11 attacks, Philippine police took down an al Qaeda cell that had been plotting, among other things, to fly explosives-laden planes into the Pentagon.

"All those years in flight school, he confessed, had been in preparation for a suicide mission. He was to buy, rent, or steal a small plane, fill it with explosives and crash it into CIA headquarters, while others would fly planes into other targets. He mentioned the other targets being  the White House, the Pentagon and some skyscrapers. The only problem, Murad complained, was that they needed trained pilots to carry out the plot."  --Washington Post
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bust_and_boom.html

"WASHINGTON — In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings."
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/wire_stories/0903_plane_exercise.htm

"On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."
http://www.newsweek.com/2001/09/23/bush-we-re-at-war.html
Beliefs Always Trump Truth and Perception Always Trumps Reality

Offline 911harleyguy

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2010, 10:51:33 am »
Thank you Jim for your well researched and informative intelligent posts. Have a beer on me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7xyd_IRgGs
AGAINST ALL ENEMIES. FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y

Offline jimd3100

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2010, 06:54:25 pm »
He seems to be Naval Aide Douglas Cochrane.

BTW it has been confirmed that he is indeed the "Do the orders still stand" guy that Mineta refers to in the PEOC. Shure talked with him, or rather tried to, the guy (Cochrane) is in a tough spot, but in any case I'll leave that to Shure if he wants to post on that.

What needs to be brought out is Cheney does not have the authority to issue shoot down orders. Only the President and Sec of Defense have that authority. They both deserted their posts on 9-11. Cheney is covering for them.
According to the Washington post, ...but who knows....


Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta, summoned by the White House to the bunker, was on an open line to the Federal Aviation Administration operations center, monitoring Flight 77 as it hurtled toward Washington, with radar tracks coming every seven seconds. Reports came that the plane was 50 miles out, 30 miles out, 10 miles out-until word reached the bunker that there had been an explosion at the Pentagon.

later...
 
In the White House bunker, a military aide approached the vice president.
"There is a plane 80 miles out," he said. "There is a fighter in the area. Should we engage?"
"Yes," Cheney replied without hesitation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A42754-2002Jan26?language=printer

Cheney does not have the authority to issue these orders.

The VP doesn't have the authority to issue shoot down orders.

The following is correct....

The actual chain of command goes from the president to the Secretary of Defense. The VP has no military authority. His only military job is to not be dead. Yet on 9/11, Cheney was in a bunker giving orders. The claim is that he was "relaying" presidential orders. For some reason the president was unable to give those orders himself from Air Force One, the mobile nerve center of the executive from which a president is able to launch a nuclear war.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-shure/the-cheney-coup_b_53519.html


The authorization to shoot down deviating and unresponsive aircraft was received from the vice president at 10:31 a.m., 15 minutes after NEADS learned that the last hijacked plane, United 93 had crashed. This order was never passed on to the scrambled pilots over New York and Washington.
Page 241
http://www.amazon.com/Ground-Truth-Untold-America-Attack/dp/1594488940/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260588203&sr=1-1

Huh? Even then the order was not passed on to the pilots. How come?  Because, VP Cheney has no authorization to issue these orders, Bush and Rumsfeld, both deserted their posts on 9-11.....

Furthermore, NORAD did not receive any form of shoot-down authority until 10:31. Even then, that instruction was not communicated to the pilots. There were Air National Guard pilots over Washington with rules of engagement allowing them to engage. But they had received their direction outside of the usual military chain of command and did not get into the skies over Washington until after 10:40
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15677016/911-Commission-Documents-on-Referral-of-False-Statements-by-FAA-and-NORAD

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld then used Bob Woodward and the Washington Post to LIE to the American people about their actions on 9-11.......

This series, by Post reporters Bob Woodward and Dan Balz, is based on interviews with President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other key officials.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/18/AR2006071801175_5.html


Bush then talked to Rumsfeld to clarify the procedures military pilots should follow in trying to force an unresponsive plane to the ground before opening fire on it. First, pilots would seek to make radio contact with the other plane and tell the pilot to land at a specific location. If that failed, the pilots were to use visual signals. These included having the fighters fly in front of the other plane.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/18/AR2006071801175_5.html

But Bush and Rumsfeld are lying, and when the 9-11 Commission asked them specifically about them talking at this time and the shoot down orders, they both admitted that isn't what was discussed, what they discussed is ....well....we just don't remember.

I've already speculated why they can no longer remember what they talked about.....

what Cheney is doing is protecting the President, along with Sec of Def Rumsfeld, who are the only two people authorized to issue shoot down orders. Neither one did so, and conspired together not to.................

They could not lie to the Commission about this because to much is well documented.....

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed." - 9-11 Commission
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

They could not lie to the  Commission about this because to much is well documented.....


"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf
Beliefs Always Trump Truth and Perception Always Trumps Reality

Offline shure

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 10:34:39 am »
Thanks to the excellent research by "jimd3100" I was able to get ahold of Douglas Cochrane and ask him some questions. Unfortunately Mr. Cochrane did not have much to say other than:

"The 911 commission report is the authoritative narrative on the events of 911.. I have nothing further to add"

youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O0TP_7UWok


.

Offline 6degrees

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2010, 10:00:03 am »
"The official story is probably right" - about flight 93?  are you kidding?  Do you really believe a plane crashed in that field?

I know former naval intelligence that personally saw what W. Madsen alleged about 6 years ago regarding 93.  Unfortunately they won't go public.

Nice work on the phone call though.

Offline jimd3100

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 04:04:35 pm »
"The official story is probably right" - about flight 93?  are you kidding?  Do you really believe a plane crashed in that field?

No, I'm not kidding. You go ahead and believe whatever you want. I know all about the "reasons" for believing flight 93 was shot down. In order to believe flight 93 was shot down you have to believe a pilot decided he was going to kill a plane load of civilians even though no one gave him any orders or authority to do it. That isn't going to happen.

Maybe some day you so called truthers will wake up to the fact that saying flight 93 was shot down only helps Cheney and his buddies. It does you no good. All you are doing by saying "flight 93 was shot down". Is telling people that the Government did it's job on 9-11. It didn't. You are covering up the stand down and I'm sure Cheney appreciates your help. Are you aware that there are people that watched that plane go down? And none of them saw another plane shoot a missile at it. I think shure talked to at least one them himself. And as for whether flight 93 crashed in that field....tell Wally Miller it didn't. He was there and collected the body parts......

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b89_1378392429
Beliefs Always Trump Truth and Perception Always Trumps Reality

Offline grapecrusher1

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2010, 05:29:11 pm »
Anyone else realize the significance and relevance of this investigation by Jimd3100 and Shure?

Did I miss the post over at 911blogger?
"The meek shall inherit NOTHING" -- Zappa

Offline jimd3100

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2011, 07:57:45 pm »
Forum Member Shure talks to the man relaying orders to NEADS from VP (Do the Orders Still Stand?) D Cochrane
Listen here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O0TP_7UWok&feature=player_embedded


"The 9-11 Commission report is the authoritative narrative of the events of 9-11...I have nothing further to add." -- Doug Cochrane (Do the orders still stand?)

Were those shoot down orders? Well let's take Mr Cochrane's advice and look at what the 9-11 Commission report said......

"At 8:37:52, Boston Center reached NEADS. This was the first notification received by the military-at any level-that American 11 had been hijacked:"  --9-11 Commission Report page 37/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"NEADS: Is this real world-world or exercise?" -- 9-11 Commission report page 37/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"8:46:40 AA 11 crashes into 1 WTC"  -- 9-11 Commission report page 49/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"9:03:11 Flight 175 crashes into 2 WTC" -- 9-11 Commission report page 49/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"9:37:46 AA 77 crashes into the pentagon" -- 9-11 Commission report page 50/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"10:03:11 Flight 93 crashes in field in Shanksville, PA" -9-11 Commission report page 50/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"NEADS needed orders to pass to the pilots. At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told, "negative clearance to shoot."  --9-11 Commission report page 62/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"10:15 Washington Center advises NEADS that Flight 93 has crashed in PA" -- 9-11 Commission report page 50/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31." --9-11 Commission report page 62/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"We are sure that the nation owes a debt to the passengers of United 93. Their actions saved the lives of countless others, and may have saved either the Capitol or the White House from destruction."-- 9-11 Commission report page 62/585
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Yup, I agree. Because these traitors were going to let the capital be hit. No one was issuing shoot down orders.

Thanks Mr Cochrane
Beliefs Always Trump Truth and Perception Always Trumps Reality

Offline shure

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Phone call to Norman Mineta
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2011, 08:04:10 pm »
Phone call to Norman Mineta
February 14, 2011



He didn't have much to say before he hung up on me!!!


Youtube link -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qnxO5TyDw



Mp3 download link -
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-94247/TS-450606.mp3

alternate Mp3 download link -
http://www.pumpitout.com/audio/nm-021411.mp3





.

Offline OsamaGoldstein

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 12:39:20 am »
When I was in training in the USAF, we were instructed that on every AFB there was an interceptor fueled and ready for immediate takeoff in any crisis. A pilot was stationed steps away from the aircraft at all times. They were ready for immediate response anytime. What's more, the base commander in case of obvious emergency had the jurisdiction to launch fighters anytime WITHOUT waiting for a chain of command phone queue.

So my immediate question was why didn't that happen on 9/11?

At some point along the way apparently the base commanders' authority to launch was rescinded. When and where I'm not sure. I did hear the base commander in Rome NY wanted to launch shortly after the towers were hit but could not get authorization.  >:(

He should launch now.

EvadingGrid

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Re: "Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2015, 05:20:36 am »
When I was in training in the USAF, we were instructed that on every AFB there was an interceptor fueled and ready for immediate takeoff in any crisis. A pilot was stationed steps away from the aircraft at all times. They were ready for immediate response anytime. What's more, the base commander in case of obvious emergency had the jurisdiction to launch fighters anytime WITHOUT waiting for a chain of command phone queue.

So my immediate question was why didn't that happen on 9/11?

At some point along the way apparently the base commanders' authority to launch was rescinded. When and where I'm not sure. I did hear the base commander in Rome NY wanted to launch shortly after the towers were hit but could not get authorization.  >:(

He should launch now.

Very good question.
Every schoolboy used to know this . . . .

So why is it that when ever I mention this in public I get a response of "dumb glazed eyeball" and instead of speech "mumbling sentences with the logic of 3 yr old"

Funny old world.


Oh, welcome to the forum, any questions or anything just ask me or another moderator.