Author Topic: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere  (Read 33735 times)

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Offline TahoeBlue

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CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere
« on: July 21, 2010, 12:03:09 pm »
I felt this should be a separate thread. It was buried in other threads.
We live in a CO2 starved atmosphere. We could have 10 times the CO2 with no ill effects to people breathing.  391 / 1,000,000 ~  4 /10,000

O2 content has not changed with all the Wood/Oil/Coal/Natgas burned since the beginning of the industrial revolution.

CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere!!!! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide
CO2 is a trace gas comprising 0.039% of the atmosphere

As of April 2010[update], carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere is at a concentration of 391 ppm by volume.[1]

CO2 is toxic in higher concentrations: 1% (10,000 ppm) will make some people feel drowsy.[5] Concentrations of 7% to 10% cause dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.[6]

[ Hold on lets read what the studies show : ]

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/fire/co2/co2report.html
Carbon dioxide has been used extensively for many years in the special hazard fire protection industry worldwide. Between the 1920s and 1960s, carbon dioxide was the only gaseous fire suppression agent used to any degree, but halon-based systems were used extensively beginning in the 1960s.

The amount of carbon dioxide needed to reduce the oxygen level to a point at which various fuels are prevented from burning is relatively high and is also at a level where humans will suffer undesirable health effects

At the minimum design concentration (34 percent) for its use as a total flooding fire suppressant, carbon dioxide is lethal.

But because carbon dioxide is a physiologically active gas and is a normal component of blood gases at low concentrations, its effects at lower concentrations (under 4 percent) may be beneficial under certain exposure conditions.
...
In human subjects exposed to low concentrations (less than 4 percent) of carbon dioxide for up to 30 minutes, dilation of cerebral blood vessels, increased pulmonary ventilation, and increased oxygen delivery to the tissues were observed (Gibbs et al. 1943, Patterson et al. 1955). These data suggest that carbon dioxide exposure can aid in counteracting effects (i.e., impaired brain function) of exposure to an oxygen-deficient atmosphere

http://www.erowid.org/library/review/review.php?p=250

Carbon Dioxide Therapy is a seminal monograph documenting the use of carbogen in psychiatry as a treatment for neurosis. Carbogen is a psychoactive mixture of carbon dioxide and oxygen that exerts anesthetic and visionary effects. The book's author administered a blend called "Meduna's Mixture", consisting of 30% carbon dioxide and 70% oxygen, to hundreds of patients, and the results of his research are copiously document in this engaging monograph. Exposure to increased levels of carbon dioxide can be dangerous or even be fatal, but Meduna encountered no serious problems in administering his 70/30 blend in sessions of up to 50 breaths in length.

Carbogen had an enthusiastic but short-lived following as a psychedelic tool in the 50s and 60s. Al Hubbard and Myron Stolaroff both commonly administered carbogen as a prelude to LSD sessions. But Carbon Dioxide Therapy was written before Wasson's infamous Life Magazine article, and Meduna probably would have been amazed to hear that a later generation would explore carbogen purely out of interest in its mind-altering effects. (For more information on carbogen's use by the psychedelic community, see "Carbogen" and "Carbogen Redux" by B. James and Earth Erowid in Erowid Extracts #12.)

ClimateGate - The more oxygen, the cooler the climate

O2 percent by volume 20 percent

the total estimated industrial O2 depletion on Jan 1, 2005 would have been (35.3)/(37050)x100 = 0.095% of the preindustrial amount."

Links:

The funny part. There is hardly any CO2 in the air.  There used to be a lot more in the past.

CO2 always follows AFTER the warming up of the earth NEVER BEFORE.

CO2 Contributed by Human Activity: 12 to 15ppmv / version 1 Vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLmLW4k4aI

The Great Global Warming Swindle http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5576670191369613647#

CBC – Global Warming Doomsday Called Off http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295&hl=en-GB

Global Warming Part II - The Oxygen Depletion Scare

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline xereau

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 12:09:16 pm »
Humans are responsible for a whopping 3.7% of the 0.04%!

This means that humans have contributed 0.0015% to the atmosphere.

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Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 12:17:48 pm »
Humans are responsible for a whopping 3.7% of the 0.04%!

This means that humans have contributed 0.0015% to the atmosphere.

Right! Most CO2 is absorbed by the oceans and Somewhere I a have post regarding how scientists were trying to prove that the oceans had maxed out on the CO2 holding capacity. But, a scientist proved that the oceans had NOT maxed out, and will continue to absorb CO2 for a long long time. I wil post that here when I find it again.  

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2004/07/64236
Oceans Absorbed Missing CO2

"The ocean has removed 48 percent of the CO2 we have released to the atmosphere from burning fossil fuels and cement manufacturing," Sabine said after reviewing data gathered between 1989 and 1998 from three major studies of the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian oceans. The studies collected more than 72,000 ocean samples.
...
The oceans could continue absorbing the gas for centuries, Sabine said, because ocean waters mix slowly and most of the CO2 is in near-surface water.

Spy Drones To Enforce CO2 Regulations

http://www.globalwarmingisreal.com/blog/2009/08/26/noaa-plans-for-expanded-network-of-ocean-co2-monitors/
NOAA Plans for Expanded Network of Ocean CO2 Monitors - August 26, 2009

Since they soak up as much as one quarter [ one half ] of all carbon annually emitted by humans the world's oceans are often characterized as a carbon "sponge"
...
Chris Sabine, an oceanographer for NOAA, explains: "We need to understand what's going on with the oceans to know if that's (carbon sink) going to change."
...
Sabine has 18 CO2 monitors fitted to moorings in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, each able to measure ocean and atmospheric CO2 levels. But Sabine and his colleagues at NOAA need more of those monitoring devices, up to 50 or 60 networked across the globe, to "contribute to NOAA's growing climate observation system."
...
To the rescue comes Batelle,  a non-profit research and development firm that is teaming up with NOAA and the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute to manufacture the devices commercially from its Dublin, Ohio manufacturing facility.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 12:37:41 pm »


Two minute VIDEO which illustrates this very well:  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtyKDdb7mI
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Offline Letsbereal

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 12:40:40 pm »
CO2 Contributed by Human Activity: 12 to 15ppmv / version 1 Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLmLW4k4aI
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Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 01:02:34 pm »
This week Tom McClintock had his regular phone-in townhall.

One of the questions (audience - constituents in his district) was a guy who seemed to be reading from a script of talking points from the IPCC and pro cap/trade carbon tax. He didn't seem to ask a question, it was more of a statement. 

I keep wondering if these guy's get paid to do this or are they just brainwashed? But they are coming out of the woodwork and they want to refute climategate and move on to the global taxation.

Strobe Talbott - Skull and Bones Globalization Expert

In the Booktv interview Strobe Tallbott schools Arthur Brooks on terminology and methods to counter the "ClimateGate" effect and how "Climate Change" (was Global Warming") is a fundemental building block of future Globalization planning (global taxation/cap and trade) (tell Brooks not to use the term "SCANDAL" )
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The Center for the Study of Globalization and the fellowship program for emerging global leaders will be housed in the Davies Mansion, a recently restored Victorian mansion of nearly 20,000 square feet that sits on a hilltop at the north end of the Yale campus.

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Joe(WI)

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 01:23:03 pm »
After a quick math dump, if you have 2,500 pennies(Thx Xereau), then 1 penny is the CO2!

Anyone wishing an image of said monstrosity only ask.

Quick dirty for now ;)

+Half one of these.

Take one penny, that's all the plants of earth get to breathe. Whoa! Startling. :o
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Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 01:49:39 pm »
They have created the perception that CO2 is some large portion of the atmosphere,  40 percent . The average joe doesn't know anything. They equate CO2 to CO Carbon Monoxide. They don't know what percent means.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

worcesteradam

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 02:23:33 pm »
co2 is a small % of the atmosphere

im not sure where the claim we only contribute 3.7% of it comes from. it doesnt sound right.
concentrations have gone from 300ppm to 450, something like that. As far as i know its blamed on industrial revolution.

Offline Scootle

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 03:49:10 pm »
Since preindustrial times, CO2 has gone up by 0.01%, from a little under 300ppm to a little under 400ppm. It's not known exactly how much of that is due to human activity and I don't think lord monckton or any other credible person has ever argued that humans have only contributed a small amount to CO2 emissions. There certainly are natural influences to CO2 levels because it's gone up and down in the past just like temperature has - and actually tends to follow temperature increase, not precede it - but most people agree that humans have contributed a significant amount to CO2 concentrations - not that that's a bad thing though. I suppose you could calculate how much the 7 billion people on this planet are contributing in total through breathe alone. I'd imagine that is probably insignificant. So even if CO2 was a problem, a tax on breathing or mass genocide wouldn't really do anything.
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Offline crutley

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 04:53:44 pm »
Mars's atmosphere is 95.32% carbon dioxide yet it remains far colder than the Earth.
Why wait for progress?

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 05:03:58 pm »
ALERT! There are 200,000 PPM of Oxygen in the atmosphere!

Breath people! Breath! Floor your V-8's! We must rid the excess O2 from the atmosphere!
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline citizenx

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 05:04:36 pm »
.04% today.

OMG

I better run out and buy some Oxygen bottles.

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 05:29:10 pm »
Since preindustrial times, CO2 has gone up by 0.01%, from a little under 300ppm to a little under 400ppm.
...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1806245/posts
The Real History of Carbon Dioxide Levels

The short version of Beck's paper can be found here: http://www.anenglishmanscastle.com/180_years_accurate_Co2_Chemical_Methods.pdf
...
Since 1812, the CO2 concentration in northern hemispheric air has fluctuated exhibiting three high level maxima around 1825, 1857 and 1942 the latter showing more than 400 ppm.

Between 1857 and 1958, the Pettenkofer process was the standard analytical method for determining atmospheric carbon dioxide levels, and usually achieved an accuracy better than 3%.

These determinations were made by several scientists of Nobel Prize level distinction.
...
DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSIONS

During the late 20th century, the hypothesis that the ongoing rise of CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is a result of fossil fuel burning became the dominant paradigm. To establish this paradigm, and increasingly since then, historical measurements indicating fluctuating CO2 levels between 300 and more than 400 ppmv have been neglected.
...
Review of available literature raise the question if these authors have systematically discarded a large number of valid technical papers and older atmospheric CO2 determinations because they did not fit their hypothesis?





It is easily seen that :
1. atmospheric carbon dioxide fluctuates through 19th and 20th century contradicting the icecore reconstructions.

2. In 20th century we notice one big maximum around 1942 with more than 420 ppm and several little maxima in 1915 and 1905; in 19th century a big maximum occurred before 1870 and perhaps a big maximum in 1820 out of precise measurement area. Little maxima appeared around 1876, 1880 and 1890.

3. CO2 concentrations rises from approx. 1880 to 1930 by some 20 ppm as Callendar speculated in 1938.

4. Big maximas with an amplitude of 100 ppm like the one in the 40s should be easily reproduced with chemical methods (3%). This is not mentioned in modern literature.
...
Summary
Accurate chemical CO2 gas analyses of air over 180 years show a different trend compared to the literature of IPCC climate change actually published.

1. There is no constant exponential rising CO2-concentration since preindustrial times but a variing CO2-content of air following the climate. E.G. around 1940 there was a maximum of CO2 of at least 420 ppm, before 1875 there was also a maximum.
2. Historical air analysis by chemical means do not prove a preindustrial CO2- concentration of 285 ppm (IPCC),as modern climatology postulates. In contrast the average in the 19th century in northern hemisphere is 321 ppm and in the 20th century 338 ppm.
3. Todays CO2 value of. 380 ppm, which is considered as threatening has been known several times in the last 200 years, in the 20 th century around 1942 and before 1870 in the 19th century. The maximum CO2-concentration in the 20th century roses to over 420 pmm in 1942.
4. Accurate measurements of CO2 air gas contents had been done from 1857 by chemical methods with a systematical error of maximal 3%. These results were ignored reconstructing the CO2 concentration of air in modern warm period.

Notice the 1825 Maxima:

http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/uks-major-airports-may-close-from-tomorrow-25809.php
the last big eruption of the [Iceland] Eyjafjallajokull volcano went on for two years in the early 1820s.

Notice the 1940's Maxima:

http://www.santorini.com/santorinivolcano/volcaniceruptions.htm

Santorini - The Eruptions of 1939-1941
A series of explosive phases and upheaval of land mass characterize this period. After a period of quiescence of only 11 years, the volcano awoke once again. Early in May 1939, it was observed that the waters in the little bay of Agios Georgios with its chapel, were heating up, and the coastline was subsiding. A submarine explosion at the harbour entrance on August 20th cleared the vent for the new magma which began to appear, creating a small dome which the volcanologists of the time baptized 'Triton'.

Late in August 1940, two major explosions from the summit of the island blew the old rock plug from 1866 into the air, opening two large craters each 50 meters across. These are the craters which visitors to the island go to see today. There was no magma outflow from these craters. Towards the end of November of that same year, viscous lava began to flow from a vent a bare 100 meters to the east, creating the lava fields named 'Niki' (Victory), in honour of the Greek victories in Albania. The lava covered the eastern slopes of the island, stopping just short of the sea.

This eruptive cycle came to an end in July 1941.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline 2stevejc

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 05:31:44 pm »
New figures from the Brazilian government show that 10,088 square miles of rain forest were destroyed in the 12 months ending in August 2004. Deforestation in the Amazon in 2004 was the second worst ever as rain forest was cleared for cattle ranches and soy farms

Between 1978-2004 Over 200,000 square miles of "The Lungs of the Earth" have been destroyed to further Globalisation. Now they want us to pay. I'm not one of those Plant a tree save the earth guys, but do the IPCC guys ever factor this into their figures.

http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0521-rhett_butler.html

I've seen, but can't find the articles that the deforestation puts more pressure on the oceans as a carbon sink. So it has nowhere to go but up.

We could have taken action in the 70's-80's by building Nuclear power stations. But the MSM poisoned us into believing that such a move would be catastrophic. Then Chernobyl just to convince us all.
Wow, That's f*cked up

worcesteradam

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2010, 05:42:40 pm »
the world bank/imf pays for rainforest to be destroyed to grow biofuels

----

here is a lecture by a physicist on Global Warming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyuKOtIryis

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2010, 05:51:57 pm »
New figures from the Brazilian government show that 10,088 square miles of rain forest were destroyed in the 12 months ending in August 2004. Deforestation in the Amazon in 2004 was the second worst ever as rain forest was cleared for cattle ranches and soy farms.  

Between 1978-2004 Over 200,000 square miles of "The Lungs of the Earth" have been destroyed to further Globalisation. Now they want us to pay. I'm not one of those Plant a tree save the earth guys, but do the IPCC guys ever factor this into their figures.

http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0521-rhett_butler.html

I've seen, but can't find the articles that the deforestation puts more pressure on the oceans as a carbon sink. So it has nowhere to go but up.

We could have taken action in the 70's-80's by building Nuclear power stations. But the MSM poisoned us into believing that such a move would be catastrophic. Then Chernobyl just to convince us all.

Most articles show De-Forestation  Worldwide as an inflated 20-25 percent contribution to CO2.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6870856/
Burning trees now account for 20 percent of manmade CO2
“Scientifically, we’re not 100 percent confident we know all the processes,”

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/section3group2/deforestation_of_the_amazon_rainforests_and_co2
Deforestation of the Amazon Rainforests and CO2
...
Our calculations suggest that deforestation of the Brazilian Amazon accounts for 0.397 Pg annually, an increase of only 0.0529%  of the 750 x Pg C in currently in that atmosphere.  We found that the deforestation of the Brazilian Amazon is a surprisingly small contributor to the amount of carbon in the atmosphere.
    
    However, our research is quite elementary and possesses a variety of questions, limitations, and gaps.  For one thing, it is not clear that all of the deforested land shown by satellites has been burned. We assumed that it had, which could have altered our estimation of the gross and net carbon release from deforestation. Another fundamentally crippling aspect of our research is the general discrepancy in measurements that exists in this field.  The estimates for photosynthetic absorption of carbon and release due to combustion are only one group of researchers’ findings.  Virtually everyone who studies this issue’s findings vary at least slightly.  This is due to the sheer vastness of the topic and myriad of complications it encompasses. Teams also employ differing methods of measuring carbon release, carbon absorption, and even deforestation. This research project should be interpreted as one narrow scenario for deforestation’s interaction with the atmosphere in regards to carbon.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=517128
University of Bristol in England -  new study, published in the online journal Geophysical Research Letters - Wolfgang Knorr
http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2009/6649.html
Another result of the study is that emissions from deforestation might have been overestimated by between 18 and 75 per cent.
...
Another result of this study, reports Anthony Watts at WattsUpWithThat.com, is that emissions from deforestation, caused in large part by the clearing of forest land to grow allegedly planet-saving biofuels, may have been grossly overestimated. This finding agrees with results published in November in the journal Nature Geoscience by a team led by Guido van der Werf from VU University in Amsterdam. It reanalyzed deforestation data and concluded that resulting emissions have been overestimated by a factor of two.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Captain Koolaid

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2010, 11:08:42 pm »
This is one of the best points to bring up when arguing with someone.  I was arguing with some guy that was totally brainwashed but when I explained to him these facts (actually is .04 accurate?) it really made him pause and say "really?"

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2010, 11:30:45 pm »
This is one of the best points to bring up when arguing with someone.  I was arguing with some guy that was totally brainwashed but when I explained to him these facts (actually is .04 accurate?) it really made him pause and say "really?"

Exactly! There is virtually NO CO2 in the atmosphere! So how do you reduce from ZERO?

The IPCC went with the ice core CO2 data KNOWING it had leeched CO2 out of the ice and had LOWER numbers then actual.

1825 and 1942 CO2 was higher then TODAY.  If we want to go back to the days of 1825 we need to pump MORE CO2 into the air!
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline xereau

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2010, 11:43:00 am »
co2 is a small % of the atmosphere

im not sure where the claim we only contribute 3.7% of it comes from. it doesnt sound right.
concentrations have gone from 300ppm to 450, something like that. As far as i know its blamed on industrial revolution.

Total CO2 put out by humans every year:

27 gigatonnes.

Total CO2 put out by all other sources every year:

220 gigatonnes -- Consumption of vegetation by animals & microbes

220 gigatonnes -- Respiration by vegetation

332 gigatonnes -- The oceans

772 gigatonnes -- TOTAL from all other sources.


27/772 = 3.5%

Oh and by the way, the original calculations were made from data from the OFFICIAL WIKIPEDIA CO2 PAGE.  It has since been edited and no such information is available on the OFFICIAL WIKIPEDIA CO2 PAGE!
Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex. --  Frank Zappa

Offline Scootle

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2010, 01:35:12 pm »
You do realise "skeptical science" is a pro man-made global warming website?

It's like the global warming equivalent of a 9/11 debunking site.

"Manmade CO2 emissions are much smaller than natural emissions. Consumption of vegetation by animals & microbes accounts for about 220 gigatonnes of CO2 per year. Respiration by vegetation emits around 220 gigatonnes. The ocean releases about 332 gigatonnes. In contrast, when you combine the effect of fossil fuel burning and changes in land use, human CO2 emissions are only around 29 gigatonnes per year. However, natural CO2 emissions (from the ocean and vegetation) are balanced by natural absorptions (again by the ocean and vegetation). Land plants absorb about 450 gigatonnes of CO2 per year and the ocean absorbs about 338 gigatonnes. This keeps atmospheric CO2 levels in rough balance. Human CO2 emissions upsets the natural balance."

But if CO2 goes up, doesn't that encourage more plants to grow? - Thereby balancing it out! It's funny how they portray mother nature as this really sensitive balancing act that can be FUBAR-ed by even the slightest meddling. Makes me wonder how it survived 4.5 billion years of asteroid impacts, volcanic eruptions, global floods and ice-ages.
The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA

Offline Dig

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2010, 07:12:25 am »
The Carbon Conundrum
William Pentland, 10.07.08, 06:00 AM EDT
http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/06/carbon-sequestration-biz-energy-cx_wp_1007capture_print.html


Minutes before midnight on Aug. 21, 1986, roughly one cubic kilometer of gaseous carbon dioxide escaped into the atmosphere from the floor of Lake Nyos in the hilly jungle terrain of western Africa. The plume looked like a white cloud as it spilled out of the lake and rolled into surrounding valleys. By sunrise, more than 1,700 people and 3,200 animals had died of asphyxiation...."If we don't have sequestration, then I see very little hope for the world," Ronald Ox burgh, head of Royal Dutch Shell (nyse: RDSA - news - people ) in the U.K., told the British newspaper The Guardian in 2004....In the next five years, dozens of new CCS projects around the world are scheduled to begin operating. The U.S. Department of Energy recently ramped up the launch of large-scale CCS projects in Ohio, Colorado, Wyoming, Illinois, West Virginia and California. In 2009, Chevron (nyse: CVX - news - people ), Shell and Exxon Mobil (nyse: XOM - news - people ) plan to complete construction of the world's largest CCS project, the Gorgon Project, off the coast of Australia, which will inject a whopping 3.3 million tons of carbon into a saline reservoir located more than a mile beneath Barrow Island. Still, the scale and number of these projects will need to ramp up exponentially to make a real difference.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2010, 11:55:22 am »
http://www.nationalcenter.org/TSR032204.html
Global Warming: Why Can't the Mainstream Press Get Even Basic Facts Right? DATE: March 22, 2004

BACKGROUND: The Associated Press ran a global warming story1 this past weekend that makes the following statements:

"Carbon dioxide, the gas largely blamed for global warming, has reached record-high levels in the atmosphere after growing at an accelerated pace in the past year..."

"Carbon dioxide, mostly from burning of coal, gasoline and other fossil fuels, traps heat that otherwise would radiate into space."

"Global temperatures increased by about 1 degree Fahrenheit (0.6 degrees Celsius) during the 20th century, and international panels of scientists sponsored by world governments have concluded that most of the warming probably was due to greenhouse gases."

DISCUSSION: A brief refutation:

Quote 1: The AP said: "Carbon dioxide, the gas largely blamed for global warming, has reached record-high levels in the atmosphere after growing at an accelerated pace in the past year..."

Facts: Carbon dioxide is not the major greenhouse gas (water vapor is).2

Carbon dioxide accounts for less than ten percent of the greenhouse effect, as carbon dioxide's ability to absorb heat is quite limited.3

Only about 0.03 percent of the Earth's atmosphere consists of carbon dioxide (nitrogen, oxygen, and argon constitute about 78 percent, 20 percent, and 0.93 percent of the atmosphere, respectively).4

The sun, not a gas, is primarily to "blame" for global warming -- and plays a very key role in global temperature variations as well.

Quote 2: The AP said: "Carbon dioxide, mostly from burning of coal, gasoline and other fossil fuels, traps heat that otherwise would radiate into space."

Fact: Most of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere does not come from the burning of fossil fuels. Only about 14 percent of it does.5

Quote 3: The AP said: "Global temperatures increased by about 1 degree Fahrenheit (0.6 degrees Celsius) during the 20th century, and international panels of scientists sponsored by world governments have concluded that most of the warming probably was due to greenhouse gases."

Facts: Most of 20th Century global warming occurred in the first few decades of that century,6 before the widespread burning of fossil fuels (and before 82 percent of the increase in atmospheric CO2 observed in the 20th Century7).

The Earth does not have "world governments." It doesn't even have even one, as the United Nations is not a government, but an association of nations.

If the AP is referring to the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the AP should become aware that the IPCC report itself (the part written by scientists) reached no consensus on climate change
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2010, 12:21:29 pm »
to re-cap, We have shown that

CO2 is a trace gas  of .039 percent (390 PPM) of the atmosphere.
1% (10,000 ppm) will make some people feel drowsy
Concentrations of CO2 have been higher in the past century and prior to industrialization.
Ice core's have been used as a reference because over time they have leaked co2 and always show lower values then actual.

Now CO2 for plants:

If CO2 doubled to say 800 PPM, The deserts would green and starvation would be a thing of the past.

http://joannenova.com.au/2010/04/co2-is-the-magic-gas-that-makes-plant-grow/
Co2 is the magic gas that makes plants grow

A little under half (typically about 45%) of the dry weight of any plant is carbon, and almost all that “C” came from CO2 in the atmosphere. No wonder plants love more CO2.

The team at CO2science grew seedlings for 42 days in chambers of 450ppm (high) and 1270 ppm (very high) CO2 concentrations. They document the growth of cowpea plants (Vigna unguiculata) via time-lapse photography, and show what most market gardeners know: more CO2 in the air makes for taller, stronger, faster growing plants. Indeed CO2 is one of the essential nutrients for plants, and is often the thing that limits their growth. Pretty much all the plants on earth grow faster when CO2 levels are higher.

In a cornfield the CO2 levels change in the air above the corn, starting at sunrise, as the plants wake up and start photosynthesizing, the levels of CO2 begin to fall in the air over the field.

Within an hour the levels start to plummet–dropping 25% by morning tea time. Somewhere around 200ppm the plants slow down and struggle to grow.

The ingredient plants need most is carbon from CO2. They typically [Plants] exchange over 2,000 water molecules to grab one CO2 molecule. Plants are desperate for carbon from the air, just like we humans are desperate for oxygen from the air. “No CO2″, implies no plant growth. One of the main roles of water in plant life is just so the plant can exchange it for carbon.

Green the deserts?

When there is more CO2 in the air, the plants don’t need as much water. They become more drought resistant. From the CO2Science Biospheric Summary:

One of the important ramifications of this CO2-induced increase in plant water use efficiency is the fact that it enables plants to grow and reproduce in areas that were previously too dry for them.  

With consequent increases in ground cover in these regions, the adverse effects of wind- and water-induced soil erosion are also reduced.  Hence, there is a tendency for desertification to be reversed and for vast tracts of previously unproductive land to become supportive of more abundant animal life, both above- and below-ground, in what could appropriately be called a “greening of the earth.”

The mass of plant matter in the world today is about 6% higher than it was 20 years ago, according to satellites. The deforestation in South America and South Asia is about matched by reforestation in North America, Russia and Europe, and extra CO2 is making for more biomass per square meter

Due to today’s higher CO2 levels, plants on average grow 15% faster than they did 200 years ago (and some major cereals grow 40% faster). Higher CO2 levels are a major part of the green revolution, averting starvation for hundreds of millions of thinking, breathing, human beings.

If the Greens wanted to green the world, the single fastest way to do it, is to raise carbon dioxide levels. O’ the irony.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Derek (GWS)

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2010, 02:56:56 pm »
Hi All,
We really don't know much about CO2 at all do we. Well, except it is atmospheric plant fertilizer.

As for supposed effects upon climate - well they are not proven, at best..
For instance, the logarithmic effect of CO2 upon temperature in the atmosphere - it has never been measured directly....
AND, probably it will never be possible to measure it.
Why, because it is just too damned complicated. ie, We can measure how much 15 micron wavelength we can measure in the atmosphere,
and CO2 radiates 15 micron IR - but - so does liguid water, infact quite strongly.
Can we differenciate between CO2 and H2O sourced IR - NO.
So, the boffins went off into a lab and measured lots of different gases and things on their own, individually, at lots of different "concentrations".
These are basically HITRAN.
Then these individual, closed system, from a vacuum up, measurements were added together with some assumptions and we got
MODRAN.
These are then applied without any "proofs" whatsoever to the real, open, mixed atmosphere.
The logarithmic effect of CO2 is derived from MODRAN.......
It really is no better than GCM modelling.
A simple demonstration that individual measurements may not be applicable to real, mixed, open scenarios.
The specific heat capacity of CO2. Physicists say it is high (from individual measurements),
chemists say it is low (from real mass balanced equations that actually work.)

The only thing we really know about atmospheric CO2 is it makes plants grow better, they would prefer (and probably evolved) in far higher concentrations (some say optimum for plants is about 20,000ppm - 2,400ppm (ish) human health and safety "limit" ),
but it is also known much below 200ppm plants die due to CO2 starvation...


Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2010, 03:18:14 pm »
...
So, the boffins went off into a lab and measured lots of different gases and things on their own, individually, at lots of different "concentrations". These are basically HITRAN.

Then these individual, closed system, from a vacuum up, measurements were added together with some assumptions and we got MODRAN.

These are then applied without any "proofs" whatsoever to the real, open, mixed atmosphere.
The logarithmic effect of CO2 is derived from MODRAN.......
It really is no better than GCM modelling.
A simple demonstration that individual measurements may not be applicable to real, mixed, open scenarios.
The specific heat capacity of CO2. Physicists say it is high (from individual measurements),
chemists say it is low (from real mass balanced equations that actually work.)
...

Exactly! An interesting thread regarding MODRAN:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=174215

Tony, The short answer is about 0.7 - 1 degree Celsius per doubling CO2 at thermal radiative equilibrium, excluding feedbacks. You won't find much reference to that but you can calculate it yourself using MODTRAN
...

Now if you understand the trick you can play with the scenario's and numbers to see that it's always about 0.7-1 degree sensitivity for doubling.

But then there is the positive - negative feedback dispute and the interpretation of the proxies of the past ice ages. My threads here are loaded with that, for instance:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=162192
The positive feedback factor of CO2

In the other thread we / errm I discussed that theories cannot be proven but they can be falsified
...
Actually, without positive feedback, more CO2 is merely a mild friendly climate alleviator at the most

So the issue here is the positive feedback factor of CO2 on the termination of ice ages. It is exhaustively discussed that in the ice cores we see the oxygen isotope (d18O) spikes rise before the CO2 does (d18O is assumed to be temperatures). As the CO2 is lagging 600+/- 400 years, normally this would refute the idea that CO2 causes temperature rise, instead temperature rise seems to rise the CO2.


But there is always a remedy, positive feedback. So some trigger (earth -milankovitch wobbles are assumed to trigger a first faint warming, which induces CO2 increase with some delay, probably because of warming oceans and as soon as CO2 rises, positive feedback kicks in, increasing the warming, which increases the CO2 etc etc a strong positive feedback loop. Case solved.

However, if that is a hypothesis, where are the studies that test it? I haven't seen one. Why are the warmers not pointing at any scientific substantiation when talking about positive feedback?

because it's not true?

So I used this high resolution graph of Antarctica's EPICA Dome C ice cores during the last glacial temination between 20,000 and 10,000 years ago, to demonstrate that there is no positive feedback because the typical behavior of positive feedback is not seen.

Data here: Stenni et al 2001 for the d18O and monnin et al 2004 for the CO2
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/antarctica/domec/domec_epica_data.html

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline grapecrusher1

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2010, 03:30:33 pm »
The whole notion of proportional quantities is fundamentally weak and should not be used as an argument against anthropologic global warming.

Guess how much botulinum bacteria it would take to wipe out the world's population.
Half a kilo.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Botulism/Pages/Causes.aspx
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Offline Dig

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2010, 06:44:16 pm »
The whole notion of proportional quantities is fundamentally weak and should not be used as an argument against anthropologic global warming.

Guess how much botulinum bacteria it would take to wipe out the world's population.
Half a kilo.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Botulism/Pages/Causes.aspx


WTF? Maybe if it is injected directly into the spinal cord. Then again, H2O would have a similar effect. There are kilos of that crap in the faces of every senator, congressman, and hollywood personality. I am very curious who wrote that piece of nonsense.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2010, 09:33:09 pm »

Due to today’s higher CO2 levels, plants on average grow 15% faster than they did 200 years ago (and some major cereals grow 40% faster). Higher CO2 levels are a major part of the green revolution, averting starvation for hundreds of millions of thinking, breathing, human beings.

If the Greens wanted to green the world, the single fastest way to do it, is to raise carbon dioxide levels. O’ the irony.

The irony indeed, this is why I cringe and wince when academics and others use the term "sustainability"  which of course they use interchangeably with "global warming" and the need to go green.  It seems logical that the increase in CO2 will lead to green.

Humans are responsible for a whopping 3.7% of the 0.04%!
This means that humans have contributed 0.0015% to the atmosphere.

Now if only people would focus and question this, Co2 as a percentage of the total gases in the atmosphere (0.04%!) rather than focusing on the misleading increase in the ppm.


Offline Dig

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2010, 10:57:53 pm »
The irony indeed, this is why I cringe and wince when academics and others use the term "sustainability"  which of course they use interchangeably with "global warming" and the need to go green.  It seems logical that the increase in CO2 will lead to green.

Hitler created sustainable death camps
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

kurtaxis

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2010, 04:37:08 pm »
Hitler created sustainable death camps


Excellent point, if institutions were not so influenced by the politics of funding, then they would consider using another term or jettison the whole notion. 

Sustainability has a negative connotation associated with control and mass death, indicators of political, economic and social globalization.

Offline Joe(WI)

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2010, 07:52:13 pm »
Found this on Wiki Evading...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

I DL'd a copy if it goes away for some strange reason, but I'm compiling a rational look at the air mass as a whole, breakdown of how much CO2 is in air, how much humans are adding, and how much the US is adding(paint a huge red bullseye on the greenie suckers)

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
that has an interesting page too

I find it (carbon)obnoxious(ide) that nature is being perverted to kill.

If the whole batch of air was $62500(US =P), $1 would be man-made CO2. The US chugs 20c, China 22c, India 5.5c, Russia 5c, yadda. As you can see, it is all about carboNazis stripping US of its 20c while everyone else gets to thumb its nose, no reductions. So, if its so bad, deadly even, wtf is China allowed to spew as it likes? </sarcasm>

I'll make a pic for that soon, with a 20c before, and empty after.
The number, 666, has been changed. The new number is, 999.

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2011, 10:11:21 pm »
I cannot believe they spew out this BS and they are in charge....

This guy has been WRONG for 25 years now (since 1988 at least)!!! How can he be RIGHT now?

Hansen says in this special that:  "1000 PPM (parts per million CO2) would melt all the ice on earth!

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/earth-under-water-4697/Photos

Earth Under Water PrimeTime Airing Thu Jun 16 10P Thu Jun 16 9P Thu Jun 16 8P

Read more: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/earth-under-water-4697/Photos#tab-Photos/0#ixzz1PUyJ5o5c

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/22/a-little-known-but-failed-20-year-old-climate-change-prediction-by-dr-james-hansen/


Per Dr. Hansen’s prediction in 1988, now in 2011, 23 years later, we’re a bit over halfway there … so the sea level rise should be about halfway up the side of Manhattan Island by now.



http://sites.google.com/site/yarravalleyclimateactiongroup/man-made-co2-driven-global-warming-science-information


. Less than 350 ppm CO2 safe - top US climate scientist Dr James Hansen (Head, NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, GISS, New York) says that we have gone too far: "The evidence indicates we've aimed too high -- that the safe upper limit for atmospheric CO2 is no more than 350 ppm", and wants a “negative CO2 emissions” policy of cessation of CO2 pollution and reducing atmospheric CO2 pollution (e.g. by use of renewable and geothermal energy, re-afforestation, returning carbon as biochar to soils) (for recent articles about or by Dr Hansen and his colleagues see: http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0804/0804.1126.pdf ; http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/07/climatechange.carbonemissions ; http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/20080401_DearPrimeMinisterRudd.pdf ) .


http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2011/20110118_MilankovicPaper.pdf

Paleoclimate Implications for Human-Made Climate Change
James E. Hansen and Makiko Sato
NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies and Columbia University Earth Institute, New York

...
We conclude that Earth in the warmest interglacial periods was less than 1°C warmer than in the Holocene and that goals of limiting human-made warming to 2°C and CO2 to 450 ppm are prescriptions for disaster.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline iks83

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2011, 12:20:45 am »
I tried to make a video to demonstrate the sillyness of the CO2 hype but I sound too goofy when trying to talk english and my mic is too bad anyways. So I made a pic and posted it on the forum somewhere. I worked with NASA numbers except for the last one which is the amount we icky humans add that will cause all the climate to change.



If the pic is gone some day send me a PM.

Offline Paranoid Puppet Master

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2011, 12:47:17 am »
I tried to make a video to demonstrate the sillyness of the CO2 hype but I sound too goofy when trying to talk english and my mic is too bad anyways. So I made a pic and posted it on the forum somewhere. I worked with NASA numbers except for the last one which is the amount we icky humans add that will cause all the climate to change.



If the pic is gone some day send me a PM.

I think you forgot something, I can't see the amount of CO2 referred to on this picture!  :P ;)


Offline able

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2011, 01:33:49 am »
its very small but it is there in red.
my kids are not cannon fodder for the n.w.o!

Offline iks83

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2011, 04:18:03 am »
its very small but it is there in red.

I think he was just joking.

Offline Paranoid Puppet Master

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2011, 06:14:29 am »
Actually I was joking but I also didn't notice the little red dot since the light was shining on the screen, I need to be more observant!

Offline iks83

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2011, 02:14:40 am »
well its brown actually for both the CO2 bubbles... you know a evil colour for a evil gas. But seriously thet small dot spread across the globe is causing devestating temperature changes? I mean wtf?! How can they get away with this?

Offline ekimdrachir

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Re: CO2 is .04 percent of the atmosphere !
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2011, 03:50:57 am »
Ahhhhhh Coal Is So Dirty!! Let's build more nuclear plants!! Carbon based life forms must be taxed for breathing poison!!!b