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Land Value Taxation: Rebuttals to Common Objections

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Geolibertarian:

--- Quote from: phosphene on February 19, 2010, 01:38:55 pm ---i was under the impression that most Americans actually own "real estate" not "land"
--- End quote ---

Then you were under a false impression, because real estate, by definition, includes land:

-------------------------

real estate

Definition

A piece of land, including the air above it and the ground below it, and any buildings or structures on it.


-- http://www.investorwords.com/4057/real_estate.html
-------------------------

That means it's literally impossible to own the former and not the latter.

michaelsuede:
That's a hell of an Orwellian master piece there.

My question is, what right does government have to any of my labor?

By taxing property, the government is making two claims.

1.  It owns that property, and if I fail to pay rent, it will remove me.

2.  It owns part of my labor, as I must labor to pay the dictated rent.

The government has no right to either.

Government supposedly derives its power from the consent of the governed.

I do not give my consent.  Therefore, the government has no right to impose itself upon my labor through taxation.


Geolibertarian:

--- Quote from: michaelsuede on February 19, 2010, 03:26:35 pm ---That's a hell of an Orwellian master piece there.
--- End quote ---

That's a hell of a mindless, knee-jerk reaction to it.  ::)


--- Quote ---My question is, what right does government have to any of my labor?
--- End quote ---

None. That is precisely why I call for abolishing taxes on wages, sales, houses and capital goods.


--- Quote ---By taxing property, the government is making two claims.
--- End quote ---

No, by invoking the word "property," you are merely begging the very question at issue -- whether the earth on which all must live yet which none produced can be rightfully regarded as the exclusive, unconditional "property" of a mere subset of the population (i.e., those with land titles).


--- Quote ---1.  It owns that property, and if I fail to pay rent, it will remove me.
--- End quote ---

That, of course, is one of the very objections I addressed above. It would help if you would actually take the time to read something before reacting to it.


--- Quote ---2.  It owns part of my labor, as I must labor to pay the dictated rent.
--- End quote ---

Again, if you had bothered to read what I wrote before reacting to it, you'd know that the value being taxed has nothing to do with your "labor." If it's the value of people's "labor" I wanted to tax, I'd be defending wage and sales taxes.

michaelsuede:

--- Quote from: Geolibertarian on February 19, 2010, 03:48:47 pm ---That's a hell of a mindless, knee-jerk reaction to it.  ::)

None. That is precisely why I call for abolishing taxes on wages, sales, houses and capital goods.

No, by invoking the word "property," you are merely begging the very question at issue -- whether the earth on which all must live yet which none produced can be rightfully regarded as the exclusive, unconditional "property" of a mere subset of the population (i.e., those with land titles).

That, of course, is one of the very objections I addressed above. It would help if you would actually take the time to read something before reacting to it.

Again, if you had bothered to read what I wrote before reacting to it, you'd know that the value being taxed has nothing to do with your "labor." If it's the value of people's "labor" I wanted to tax, I'd be defending wage and sales taxes.

--- End quote ---

I did read it.

So where does government acquire its right to my labor?

If government has the right to tax me, it is implicitly stating it has a right to my labor.

I do not give my consent.

If I wanted government to have my money, I would give it to government as I would any other charity.


iclozm:

--- Quote from: michaelsuede on February 19, 2010, 03:55:14 pm ---I did read it.

So where does government acquire its right to my labor?

If government has the right to tax me, it is implicitly stating it has a right to my labor.

I do not give my consent.

If I wanted government to have my money, I would give it to government as I would any other charity.

--- End quote ---

I agree.


--- Quote ---Another common objection is that, if government taxes the economic “rent” of land, it automatically becomes the owner of land. This objection is based on the myth that the terms "rent collector" and "owner" are synonymous. While many rent collectors do, indeed, own the property on which they collect rent, there are, nevertheless, thousands of private rental agents and property managers all over the country who routinely collect rent on properties they do not own. Thus, one does not have to be an "owner" to be a "rent collector."  Government is no exception to this rule.

That doesn't mean the government of, say, North Korea does not assert ownership over the land on which it collects rent. It does. But it is not merely the authority to collect land rent, but the authority to dictate how land is used, that makes the North Korean government an "owner" of land. Critics of the LVT repeatedly insist that you can't have one authority without the other, but as mentioned above, the rent-collection services provided by non-owning rental agents and property managers prove just the opposite.
--- End quote ---

Regardless of how one may manipulate what the word ownership means, or if you call this tax your "protection to use your property how you wish" none the less, it still makes the land susceptible to government seizure for not paying your part. Thus you still "own" the land but the rent collector may let someone else use it, what good does that do? This does not protect property. There should be no tax on property whatsoever. The power to tax an item is the power to take the taxable item away, prevent its purchase, prevent it sale, basically the right to it.

LVT in my opinion still gives the illusion of ownership just as the current system does except makes your local government the tyrant, although does apportion taxes as the Constitution states thus alleviating that tyrannical aspect of taxation. Which is easier to put in check, but still no real property rights are there when you HAVE to pay your government fee.

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