Author Topic: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009  (Read 51001 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline donnay

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,928
  • Live Free Or Die Trying!
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #80 on: September 10, 2009, 09:50:45 am »
A full spectrum of info and opinions are posted here,bad, good and some excellent.  For me first-hand factual inside knowledge/thoughts are the most valuable resource of this forum and I believe a good portion here feel the same.  So fire away and expect a level of scrutiny.

I agree.
Please visit my website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #81 on: September 10, 2009, 03:37:49 pm »
They can't let Kofer Black off the hook for this. That guy was there at the beginning, and he did the deal with Cheney. These guys need to go to JAIL for this - they KNEW that Prince was wacked out genocide-crazed psycho who wanted to exterminate all the muslims in the WORLD. And they hired him. And they used him and still use Xe to THIS DAY. The entire force of Xe has been indoctrinated with genocidal mindf*ck attitude. The US government needs to fire their asses immediately.

When I intially read this I was surprised at the statement, although I admit that I know very little of where Pilikia gets his information from, after all he could have insight into areas of expertise that I do not.  I admit that the press does an excellent job of portraying Blackwater Worldwide or Xe, Inc in a very dark light but knowing at least several hundred contractors and team leaders from this company both in the theater of operations of Iraq and Afghanistan I have never heard of any ideological programming or attempts on any level to indoctrinate their employees in any way mentioned.  Knowing Prince as an acquaintance and having spent some time with him on the ground in Afghanistan in the early days of the company on a limited basis, he never espoused anything remotely resembling anything biased towards the Muslim faith or displayed any intention of setting up an extermination program.  He was, like many were at the time, very devout in rooting out the enemies of the US who were very active in trying to do the same to those working with the Northern Alliance.  Any good soldier would have a zealous attitude as it is often necessary for work of this kind.  Its rough and you face death every single day.  If you show mercy in the face of the enemy, they will not hesitate in annihilating you.


Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher Tonight!!
« Reply #82 on: September 10, 2009, 03:55:05 pm »
my thoughts exactly - these guys are already acting in unconstitutional ways so any oath they may have ever taken is clearly meaningless. 

Blackwater:the military::the federal reserve:the treasury dept.

This response is in reference to the SS analogy as well as the statement above.   One thing that is important to remember here, is that conventional armies, ie. armies that represent a nation have only existed for the last century and a half.  Mercenaries were used in every episode or war from the crusades all the way through the US Civil War on a limited basis.  What we have come to view as the norm, is not really the case.  Out of work soldiers were always employed in the ways that work the best for someone of their skill set.  Contractors were used on a large scale for many government projects that often flew under the radar because they were more clandestine than the CIA and often had larger black operating budgets, such as the NSA for example.  Did anyone know that the NSA has an unlimited black budget that doesn't require senate or congressional oversight, three times the field operations tempo and uses contractors exclusively for ALL their ground work?  Many still dont even realize that this agency has engaged in clandestine operations besides eavesdropping or SigInt.  This agency always escapes the radar and the CIA is often blamed for exposed operations or failed attempts at such. 

Interestingly enough, independent contractors often migrate between agency and PMC work routinely nowadays depending on the lucrativeness of the contract(s).  Often it requires an S or a TS clearance which is necessary in performing compartmentalized work of this nature. 

Blackwater as referred to here, will not and would not engage in any attempt as instituting martial law other than in direct support of a FEMA or Homeland Security directive such as the Katrina security efforts at federal facilities.  Many of these guys are husbands and fathers and have communicated to me on several occasions that their families and their loyalty to the USA comes first.  They would not heed any orders to do anything to jeopardize this.  Maybe for a heightened paycheck, some would.  But you have nuts in every batch, probably even in your workplaces I would imagine.

Offline grapecrusher1

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #83 on: September 10, 2009, 04:21:18 pm »
This response is in reference to the SS analogy as well as the statement above.   One thing that is important to remember here, is that conventional armies, ie. armies that represent a nation have only existed for the last century and a half.  Mercenaries were used in every episode or war from the crusades all the way through the US Civil War on a limited basis.  What we have come to view as the norm, is not really the case.  Out of work soldiers were always employed in the ways that work the best for someone of their skill set.  Contractors were used on a large scale for many government projects that often flew under the radar because they were more clandestine than the CIA and often had larger black operating budgets, such as the NSA for example.  Did anyone know that the NSA has an unlimited black budget that doesn't require senate or congressional oversight, three times the field operations tempo and uses contractors exclusively for ALL their ground work?  Many still dont even realize that this agency has engaged in clandestine operations besides eavesdropping or SigInt.  This agency always escapes the radar and the CIA is often blamed for exposed operations or failed attempts at such. 

Interestingly enough, independent contractors often migrate between agency and PMC work routinely nowadays depending on the lucrativeness of the contract(s).  Often it requires an S or a TS clearance which is necessary in performing compartmentalized work of this nature. 

Blackwater as referred to here, will not and would not engage in any attempt as instituting martial law other than in direct support of a FEMA or Homeland Security directive such as the Katrina security efforts at federal facilities.  Many of these guys are husbands and fathers and have communicated to me on several occasions that their families and their loyalty to the USA comes first.  They would not heed any orders to do anything to jeopardize this.  Maybe for a heightened paycheck, some would.  But you have nuts in every batch, probably even in your workplaces I would imagine.

True, mercenaries have been used throughout history.  But in more "advanced and civilized times" their use had been throttled off -- it is peculiar how you justify their use by virtue of history -- lets bring back slavery!!.  They are a bad idea for many reasons pointedly raised by Machiavelli in "the Prince" and you have glossed over some of them here like covert clandestine operations.  There is nothing good to be gained by unmonitored, legally unregulated mercenaries being used in unlawful invasions, unlawful wars, and committing unlawful contraventions of the Geneva Convention.

It is peculiar that you have met Prince, are close to this facet of life, and apparently know nothing of his christian crusade leanings as reported Scahill. 

"The meek shall inherit NOTHING" -- Zappa

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #84 on: September 10, 2009, 04:26:44 pm »
Yes - can you imagine how demoralizing it is for US military troops to be paid peanuts compared to the luxury-outfitted Blackwater troops raking in big bucks? Anyone who 'volunteers' for the military these days needs to be deprogrammed. They're treated like crap, then they get shipped out and their families are treated like crap. When they get wounded, they come home and they're treated like crap by the VA.


Again its necessary for me to point out that this is somewhat erroneous.  Being ex-military, this wasn't my experience at all and I can vouch for everyone in my unit that I know of.  My family and the families of those that I served with were treated much better than those whose husbands or fathers work for PMCs where there is NO spousal or family support, no insurance and no network of alliances and the risk is often greater or the same.

Those in tier one units (Army Airborne, Rangers, CAG, NSWC, and AFSOC units to name a few) face great risk of death in support of the war efforts that this country's past and current administration support.  Often many opt to reenlist, especially in light of larger enlistment bonuses approved by all branches of the military.  Some, who have little education or real world skills, opt to do PMC work because the money is good and they often dont possess the ability to do anything profitable after being in the military so long.  

There is a huge myth circulating that taxpayers are getting fleeced for paying for six figure PMC employees to do the same thing that our military could do.  Keep in mind that for every boot on the ground that you put in a foreign country, it often requires five to ten logistics personnel to support them on site, whether that be intel, food and supplies, or admin folks.  If you hire a PMC contractor, the money that is paid for him by the government agency includes all of these logistical needs.  The company provides this but doesnt provide health care, psychological care, retirement or pension, family or spousal counseling, support needs for family members or children, or in/out processing.  Travel costs are usually up to the independent contractor as well.  The contractor has to foot the bill for insurance for his family and some of the quotes for health insurance that I have received from decent companies like Blue Cross to cover my family while doing IC operations are in excess of 1200 per month for a basic plan.   Often companies will not offer a life insurance policy.  

Often when it comes to outfitting a contractor with equipment it often depends on the contract. Several companies including Xe, Inc. expect the IC to provide his own clothing, tactical necessities and PPE.  Although many of these purchases are considered a "write-off" if they are incorporated, one often racks up a sizable bill depending on the needs and climate.  Several of the ICs, including myself, on the ground in the Afghan theater, were spending 2k a month of cold weather gear and water purifying equipment out of their own pockets. Largely, companies refused to recoup these costs afterward.  On several occasions it was necessary to buy latent model NVGs dude to the substandard issue of AN/PVS-7s.  Again, an out of pocket expense that ran some of the guys upwards of seven thousand dollars

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #85 on: September 10, 2009, 10:02:40 pm »
True, mercenaries have been used throughout history.  But in more "advanced and civilized times" their use had been throttled off -- it is peculiar how you justify their use by virtue of history -- lets bring back slavery!!.  They are a bad idea for many reasons pointedly raised by Machiavelli in "the Prince" and you have glossed over some of them here like covert clandestine operations.  There is nothing good to be gained by unmonitored, legally unregulated mercenaries being used in unlawful invasions, unlawful wars, and committing unlawful contraventions of the Geneva Convention.

It is peculiar that you have met Prince, are close to this facet of life, and apparently know nothing of his christian crusade leanings as reported Scahill. 



Well, for starters there is a considerable difference between being a emphatic / devout christian and a crusader.  I think what Prince might intrinsically believe might be more homogeneous than most people think and more akin to how most Christians feel about the latent hadithas of the Koran declaring the conversion or elimination of all infidels.  As most well studied military historians can attest to, it is often necessary to thoroughly study your enemies in order to defeat them properly.  For my unit, this was undertaken at Quantico where ex-members of organizations like the PLO and Hamas helped define what ideology the Muslim faith portrays to militants and citizens alike that makes it differ from western views or Christianity.  It was clearly portrayed that a true Muslim will take the teachings of the hadithas over the more banal and relatively peaceful passages of the original text.  This is clear to most who see jihad as the primary goal of a true believer. 

This is what I believe Prince was espousing if he did this in any measure.  Scahill, although a talented investigative journalist, lacks the credible insiders view of what really transpires at Moyock, NC.  Any company with a large diverse workforce will have its share of knuckleheads, even in the upper echelons of the corporate structure and this does include some of the board.  Black, in my assessment, is certainly someone who holds a much narrower view of what the company's mission statement should contain than Prince.  This would be akin to Gen. Boykin's (former JSOC and Delta commander) statement to the effect that "We will win this war because our God is a real God and theirs is an idol."   This might smack of an ideological platform and a prejudiced view of the enemy but I believe that if you profess to be a true believer in Christ, how could you view this any other way?  It would negate your belief system if you held it lower on the importance scale.  Now what you do with this belief is crucial.  Although Jesus was clear in his teachings, such as love your enemies and how He held forgiveness to a high standard, this certainly wouldn't translate well into defeating your enemy if you applied it ubiquitously.

I am not giving all PMCs and mercenary operations the thumbs up as their certainly are shades of gray and your slavery example was a little out of context but lets call a duck a duck.  If these operators can get the job done effectively why fix what aint broke?  One doesnt distinguish specific treatment of their enemies in times of combat.  If it is certain that the Taliban will kill you in battle, shouldnt we combat them with the same ferocity? Our unit was targeted by a Chechnyan command element in Iraq as they specifically asked for our heads and any of those who gave us quarter (locals, shopkeepers, logistics staff, pilots, etc.)  In acquiring intelligence from those captured in battle, several mistakes were made because of the treatment and/or executions of American prisoners in their respective captivity.  I believe anytime emotions are brought into play or the treatment of a prisoner becomes excessive and outside the playbook it is reprehensible.  What makes us American is our use of humane treatment.  The debate of how this compromises our chances at victory is still being debated.  What is clear to me is this; if your enemy doesnt fear you on the battlefield, it is ridiculous to think that they will fear you in detainment.  The ferocity should be limited to combat.

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2009, 09:28:28 pm »
I found these forums when I was looking for Scahill's interview in its entirety in late August.  At the time I had some interesting counterpoints due to the fact that I have done extensive contract work for the CIA and currently for other federal agencies on the ground in the middle east.  I have to look over this forum thread again because it took almost 3 weeks for my login to be approved.  Anyways, there were some interesting perspectives that I came across on this thread, some well written and insightful text as well as some completely erroneous information and skewed viewpoints on the subject matter.  If anyone is interested whatsoever in some counterpoints from someone who has firsthand knowledge of the subject material (w/o divulging anything classified of course) I'd be interested in weighing in.  If not, well thanks for allowing me to peruse this forum.

it is an absolute honor that you would join this forum. i really thought this was more of a blasting point for random info that would get followed up on by more knowledgeable souls but whatever.

So if you do not mind, would you be open to some questions?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2009, 09:41:19 pm »
When I intially read this I was surprised at the statement, although I admit that I know very little of where Pilikia gets his information from, after all he could have insight into areas of expertise that I do not.  I admit that the press does an excellent job of portraying Blackwater Worldwide or Xe, Inc in a very dark light but knowing at least several hundred contractors and team leaders from this company both in the theater of operations of Iraq and Afghanistan I have never heard of any ideological programming or attempts on any level to indoctrinate their employees in any way mentioned.  Knowing Prince as an acquaintance and having spent some time with him on the ground in Afghanistan in the early days of the company on a limited basis, he never espoused anything remotely resembling anything biased towards the Muslim faith or displayed any intention of setting up an extermination program.  He was, like many were at the time, very devout in rooting out the enemies of the US who were very active in trying to do the same to those working with the Northern Alliance.  Any good soldier would have a zealous attitude as it is often necessary for work of this kind.  Its rough and you face death every single day.  If you show mercy in the face of the enemy, they will not hesitate in annihilating you.

Did you take an oath to defend the constitution?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #88 on: September 11, 2009, 10:02:44 pm »
I found these forums when I was looking for Scahill's interview in its entirety in late August.  At the time I had some interesting counterpoints due to the fact that I have done extensive contract work for the CIA and currently for other federal agencies on the ground in the middle east.  I have to look over this forum thread again because it took almost 3 weeks for my login to be approved.  Anyways, there were some interesting perspectives that I came across on this thread, some well written and insightful text as well as some completely erroneous information and skewed viewpoints on the subject matter.  If anyone is interested whatsoever in some counterpoints from someone who has firsthand knowledge of the subject material (w/o divulging anything classified of course) I'd be interested in weighing in.  If not, well thanks for allowing me to peruse this forum.

You say you did contract work for the CIA (I am guessing CACI/Kroll/IGI? whatever). Was this work with the Truman CIA or the CIA that blew the brains out of Kennedy's head on behalf of Harriman/Bush/Rockefeller?

Did you do work for the CIA that is now trying to execute Barack Obama if he does his job?

---------------------------------------

Exclusive: 27-Year CIA Vet says Obama May be Afraid of the CIA ... For Good Reason...
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7408
By Brad Friedman on 9/11/2009 3:00PM 



Alluding to the assassination of JFK, long-time high-level CIA analyst says Panetta and the President 'afraid of these guys because these guys have a whole lot to lose if justice takes its course'...

During my interview last night with 27-year CIA analyst Ray McGovern on the Mike Malloy Show (which I've been guest hosting all this week), the man who used to personally deliver the CIA's Presidential Daily Briefings to George Bush Sr., among other Presidents, offered an extraordinarily chilling thought --- particularly coming from someone with his background.

In a conversation at the end of the hour (audio and transcript below), as I was trying to pin him down for an opinion on whether or not he felt it was appropriate for CIA Director Leon Panetta to have reportedly attempted to block a lawful investigation into torture and other war crimes committed by the CIA, McGovern alluded to a book about the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and noted he felt it likely that both Panetta and President Obama may have reason to fear certain elements of the CIA.

"Let me just leave you with this thought," he said, "and that is that I think Panetta, and to a degree President Obama, are afraid --- I never thought I'd hear myself saying this --- I think they're afraid of the CIA."...


McGovern went on to note "the stakes are very high here," in relation to Attorney General Eric Holder's recently announced investigation of the CIA now under the direction of Panetta. "His main advisers and his senior staff are liable for prosecution for war crimes. The War Crimes statute includes very severe penalties, including capitol punishment for those who, if under their custody, detainees die. And we know that at least a hundred have, so this is big stakes here."

He then recommended James W. Douglass' new book, JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters.

"He makes a very very persuasive case that it was President Kennedy's, um, the animosity that built up between him and the CIA after the Bay of Pigs, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, because he was reaching out to the Russians and so forth and so on. It's a very well-researched book and his conclusion is very alarming," the long-time CIA veteran noted in what turned out to be a chilling end to our interview in which he described "two CIAs".

One, he says, was created by President Truman to "give him the straight scoop without any fear or favor. And then its covert action arm, which really doesn't believe --- which doesn't belong in this agency." McGovern referred to that CIA "advisedly" as the President's "own personal gestapo" which acts without oversight by the Congressional committees once tasked to do so.

"And so if you're asking why Obama and Panetta are going very very kid-glove-ish with the CIA, I think part of the reason, or the explanation is they're afraid of these guys because these guys have a whole lot to lose if justice takes its course."

"So, it's pretty scary. Yes, it is," he concluded.

* * *


• The complete audio archive of the entire interview (appx. 37 mins.) can be download here or heard online here...

• The final few minutes (appx. 6 mins) containing the conversation described above, as transcribed below, can be heard here...

The transcript of the above-described 9/10/09 conversation between Brad Friedman and 27-year CIA analyst Ray McGovern on the Mike Malloy Show, follows below...
BRAD FRIEDMAN: Was it appropriate, in your opinion, for Panetta to try to block this lawful investigation into torture by Eric Holder's investigation. Is that the appropriate thing for a CIA Director to do?


RAY MCGOVERN: Well, you and I know that it's not appropriate if he's Director. If he sees his role as the agency's lawyer --- which apparently he does --- then there's nothing unlawful about him pleading their special causes. The stakes are very high here. His main advisers and his senior staff are liable for prosecution for war crimes. The War Crimes statute includes very severe penalties, including capitol punishment...

BF: Yeah...

RM: ... for those who, if under their custody, detainees die. And we know that at least a hundred have, so this is big stakes here.

And let me just leave you with this thought, and that is that I think Panetta, and to a degree President Obama, are afraid --- I never thought I'd hear myself saying this --- I think they're afraid of the CIA.

And you look in history...look to the incredible book written recently by Jim Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable. He makes a very very persuasive case that it was President Kennedy's, um, the animosity that built up between him and the CIA after the Bay of Pigs, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, because he was reaching out to the Russians and so forth and so on. It's a very well-researched book and his conclusion is very alarming.

And so if you're asking why Obama and Panetta are going very very kid-glove-ish, with the CIA, I think part of the reason, or the explanation is they're afraid of these guys because these guys have a whole lot to lose if justice takes its course. And that's why I think Attorney General Holder is to be applauded.

I'm really just delighted to have somebody from The Bronx, where I grew up, try to do something to wipe out the blot that Colin Powell has put on The Bronx.

BF: Even though its a narrow investigation, you still applaud it. But Ray McGovern, 27-year CIA analyst, you're saying that there is reason to be concerned about the CIA --- that Barack Obama should be concerned.

Having been there 27 years, I guess you know what you're talking about. Uh...but that's a chilling thought I gotta say, Ray.

RM: Well, read the book. James Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable. Uh, Brad, as you probably know, there are two CIAs. Okay? The one that was set up by Truman to give him the straight scoop without any fear or favor. And then its covert action arm, which really doesn't believe --- which doesn't belong in this agency --- but is the one that is entitled, so to speak, by one sentence in the National Security Act of 1947 which says 'the Director of Central Intelligence shall perform such other functions and duties as the President shall direct.'

That gives the President the ability to use the CIA as his own personal gestapo --- and I use the word advisedly --- the only check on that are what used to be called the oversight committees of Congress, now they're called the overlooked committees of the Congress...

BF: Indeed.

RM: So it's pretty scary. Yes, it is.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2009, 10:11:28 pm »
Also fraction, are you in a position to verify a manual that has been distributed on the internet?

Here is is...

CIA Textbook on Psychological Operations In Guerrilla Warfare
http://www.tscm.com/CIA_PsyOps_Handbook.html

In addition are you familiar with Operation Garden Plot and Chip Tatum (is he for real?)

What about these videos, have you ever seen them...

Evidence of Revision (1 of 6) : The Assassinations of Kennedy
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=666048701355447870

Evidence of Revision (2 of 6) : The "Why" of it
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5335724479269105967

Evidence of Revision (3 of 6) : LBJ, Hoover and others
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2334637168204169083

Evidence of Revision (4 of 5) : The RFK assassination as never seen
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=679700833693499618

Evidence of Revision (5 of 6) : RFK assassination, MK ULTRA
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8273110340777778333

Evidence of Revision (6 of 6) : MLK assassination
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4920540616782600949
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #90 on: September 11, 2009, 10:17:20 pm »
Did you work for this CIA?

http://www.madcowprod.com/10292007.html

Oct 29, 2007
by Daniel Hopsicker

Quote
A MadCowMorningNews investigation has uncovered links between the ownership of the drug-running Gulfstream (Cocaine Two) and the other American-registered plane busted carrying a multi-ton load of cocaine in Mexico recently,  the DC9 (Cocaine One) airliner caught with 5.5 tons of cocaine in Mexico 18 months ago.

Recently-released FAA records from the Gulfstream II business jet that went down in Mexico a month ago with four tons of cocaine reveal that before it was “parked” in the name of a New York real estate developer with ties to the Russian Mob, the plane was owned by a secretive Midwestern media baron and Republican fund-raiser, who had a business partner who, incredibly, owned the other American drug plane, the DC9, recently busted in Mexico.

Stephen Adams was in business with Miami attorney Michael Farkas, who founded SkyWay Aircraft, which owned the DC9 busted in Mexico 18 months ago with 5.5 tons of cocaine aboard.

Moreover at the same time the Bush Ranger extraordinaire Stephen Adams owned the Gulfstream (N987SA) in 1999 and 2000, he was personally buying over $1 million of billboard ads for George W. Bush for his 2000 Presidential election bid.

According to SEC filings, Stephen Adams and Michael Farkas jointly controlled Holiday RV Superstores, Inc., which was used by arms merchant and CIA-fixer Adnan Khashoggi in a complicated securities fraud which stole as much as $300 million from investors and taxpayers.

Khashoggi, under indictment for felony fraud in the case and currently a fugitive from justice, is himself involved in the DC9 scandal through his lieutenant Ramy El-Batrawi, also a Farkas business partner, and the former owner of one of the two twin DC9's used for god only knows what.

The links between recent owners of the two drug planes,  discovered during an examination of FAA registration records, suggest a continuing criminal conspiracy to engage in massive drug trafficking,  involving Republican fund-raisers Adams and Senator Mel Martinez,  Saudi arms dealer Khashoggi,  prominent oligarchs in the Russian Mob, dirty San Diego defense contractor Titan Corp., as well as elements of American military and civilian intelligence.

The politically-explosive implications of the scandal may explain why American officials have been reluctant to move against, or even name, the true owners of the planes and basically "turned a blind eye" to the American involvement exposed by the drug trafficking seizures.


   
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #91 on: September 11, 2009, 10:19:57 pm »
Is this a well researched article?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Peoples Voice @ thepeoplesvoice.org
CONNECT THE DOTS - CHENEY - CIA - BLACKWATER & PAT TILLMAN
08/23/09
07:27:19 am
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/08/23/connect-the-dots-cheney-cia-blackwater-a?tempskin=basic
Allen L Roland


Connect the dots ~ Cheney did indeed have his CIA assassination group but it was outsourced, much like torture was outsourced to foreign countries, to Blackwater mercenaries and Pat Tillman was most likely a target during the 2004 election year for he was about to support John Kerry:

In my column on April 1, 2009 DID CHENEY ASSASSINATION RING TARGET PAT TILLMAN ? I wrote of the Seymour Hersh's revelation of an executive assassination ring that reported directly to Dick Cheney and now confirmed by former Cheney aide John Hannah. I also wrote that it's time to re-open the investigation of Pat Tillman's questionable death by friendly fire which was stonewalled by both the Bush administration and the Pentagon generals.

And here's my column dated August 4th, 2007 along with the known facts entitled FACTS AND LIES / PAT TILLMAN CASE .

Let me lay it out for you. Here is the narrative that Rumsfeld and Myers offered last week ( under oath ) and let's look at this obvious deception in detail ~ together with the known facts ( courtesy of RJ Eskow, Huffington Post ) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/truth-about-Tillman-murde_b_58952.html

Then you decide ~ Was a deliberate execution ordered by higher ups of Tillman because he was about to go public with his anti-war views and support John Kerry in 2004 during a Presidential election campaign or were honest mistakes made by honest men ~ like Donald Rumsfeld ??

The Cheney/Bush administration stonewalled the 9/11 commission before reluctantly allowing it to go ahead but with their own people in charge and Cheney and Bush not having to testify under oath . What were they hiding ??

Pat Tillman's questionable death was stonewalled by top Pentagon Generals until the freedom of Information Act brought it to light . What were they hiding ??

They were obviously hiding complicity !

Yesterday's Jeremy Scahill's article in The Nation / BLACKWATER : CIA ASSASSINS ? connects the dots between the CIA and Blackwater as well as their intimate connection with the Cheney/Bush White House.

Excerpt: " Now the New York Times is reporting that in 2004 the CIA hired Blackwater "as part of a secret program to locate and assassinate top operatives of Al Qaeda... A retired intelligence officer "intimately familiar with the assassination program" told the Washington Post, "Outsourcing gave the agency more protection in case something went wrong "... Reached by telephone, Illinois Democrat Jan Schakowsky, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, said that because of her oath of secrecy on sensitive intelligence issues, she could neither confirm nor deny that Congress was aware of Blackwater's involvement in this program before the Times report... "What we know now, if this is true, is that Blackwater was part of the highest level, the innermost circle strategizing and exercising strategy within the Bush administration," Schakowsky told The Nation. "Erik Prince operated at the highest and most secret level of the government. Clearly Prince ( who is facing the prospect of a potentially explosive civil trial over the killing of Iraqi civilians) was more trusted than the US Congress because Vice President Cheney made the decision not to brief Congress. This shows that there was absolutely no space whatsoever between the Bush administration and Blackwater." http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090831/scahill1

And now we have ex-Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge announcing yesterday that he was pressured to go to CODE ORANGE TERROR ALERT before the 2004 presidential election as a fear mongering political move to ensure a Bush/Cheney victory.

Connect the dots ~ a paranoid Dick Cheney, who is already outsourcing torture, enlists the CIA to hire Blackwater to assassinate specific targets. In early 2004 Cheney hears that Tillman is about to go public with his Iraq war misgivings and his support for John Kerry. Can't you picture Cheney confiding to Blackwater mafia boss Erick Prince " We have a problem with Tillman and it's an election year " and Prince replying " Worry no more, Chief ~ we'll handle it "

The Cheney/ Bush administration was a crime syndicate, ready to employ any means to their devious political ends ~ and eventually the facts will bear out this obvious truth.

Allen L Roland http://blogs.salon.com/0002255/2009/08/21.html
Freelance Alternative Press Online columnist and psychotherapist Allen L Roland is available for comments, interviews, speaking engagements and private consultations ( [email protected] )

Allen L Roland is a practicing psychotherapist, author and lecturer who also shares a daily political and social commentary on his weblog and website allenroland.com He also guest hosts a monthly national radio show TRUTHTALK on www.conscioustalk.net

-###-

Allen Roland’s weblog: http://blogs.salon.com/0002255/
Website: www.allenroland.com
ONLY THE TRUTH IS REVOLUTIONARY
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #92 on: September 11, 2009, 10:24:54 pm »
Is this really what happened right after Obama was elected...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MRykTpw1RQ
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #93 on: September 11, 2009, 10:27:31 pm »
Considering the information from McGovern that the CIA will execute Obama like they did JFK, do you believe this document has more or less credibility...
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=132825.0
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #94 on: September 11, 2009, 10:27:51 pm »
Did you take an oath to defend the constitution?

In my experience contracting, some companies do and some companies see this as simply extraneous due to the fact that it is a , prerequisite to have a US spec ops background for contacts requiring a TS clearance.  Almost all of these guys spent their careers defending the constitution and in simple, no nonsense conversations with these guys (not all. mind you, but most) they tout America and providing (well) for their families as the sole reason for the continuity of their service with a PMC.  They look forward to paying off debt and eventually getting out of the business altogether, possibly getting or furthering their education and job opportunities at home.  But to answer your question specifically, yes - we did take an oath as part of the program I was recruited for in my time with BW.  I do not know whether this is ubiquitous with all the programs there but I can say that the contract was a lucrative and highly sensitive one.  I know a couple of guys who are still with the company and have communicated that anti-piracy programs and border operations stuff in the Afghanistan theater are all populated by ex US military only as a mandate.  I am also aware that some static operations with different companies in Iraq use Ugandan nationals and Im pretty sure they have no allegiance to US interests other than a pay check or proxy duty to some higher authority.  

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #95 on: September 11, 2009, 10:46:30 pm »
In my experience contracting, some companies do and some companies see this as simply extraneous due to the fact that it is a , prerequisite to have a US spec ops background for contacts requiring a TS clearance.  Almost all of these guys spent their careers defending the constitution and in simple, no nonsense conversations with these guys (not all. mind you, but most) they tout America and providing (well) for their families as the sole reason for the continuity of their service with a PMC.  They look forward to paying off debt and eventually getting out of the business altogether, possibly getting or furthering their education and job opportunities at home.  But to answer your question specifically, yes - we did take an oath as part of the program I was recruited for in my time with BW.  I do not know whether this is ubiquitous with all the programs there but I can say that the contract was a lucrative and highly sensitive one.  I know a couple of guys who are still with the company and have communicated that anti-piracy programs and border operations stuff in the Afghanistan theater are all populated by ex US military only as a mandate.  I am also aware that some static operations with different companies in Iraq use Ugandan nationals and Im pretty sure they have no allegiance to US interests other than a pay check or proxy duty to some higher authority.  

Did you specifically take an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #96 on: September 11, 2009, 11:30:12 pm »
Is this a well researched article?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Peoples Voice @ thepeoplesvoice.org
CONNECT THE DOTS - CHENEY - CIA - BLACKWATER & PAT TILLMAN
08/23/09
07:27:19 am
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/08/23/connect-the-dots-cheney-cia-blackwater-a?tempskin=basic
Allen L Roland


Connect the dots ~ Cheney did indeed have his CIA assassination group but it was outsourced, much like torture was outsourced to foreign countries, to Blackwater mercenaries and Pat Tillman was most likely a target during the 2004 election year for he was about to support John Kerry:

In my column on April 1, 2009 DID CHENEY ASSASSINATION RING TARGET PAT TILLMAN ? I wrote of the Seymour Hersh's revelation of an executive assassination ring that reported directly to Dick Cheney and now confirmed by former Cheney aide John Hannah. I also wrote that it's time to re-open the investigation of Pat Tillman's questionable death by friendly fire which was stonewalled by both the Bush administration and the Pentagon generals.

And here's my column dated August 4th, 2007 along with the known facts entitled FACTS AND LIES / PAT TILLMAN CASE .

Let me lay it out for you. Here is the narrative that Rumsfeld and Myers offered last week ( under oath ) and let's look at this obvious deception in detail ~ together with the known facts ( courtesy of RJ Eskow, Huffington Post ) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/truth-about-Tillman-murde_b_58952.html

Then you decide ~ Was a deliberate execution ordered by higher ups of Tillman because he was about to go public with his anti-war views and support John Kerry in 2004 during a Presidential election campaign or were honest mistakes made by honest men ~ like Donald Rumsfeld ??

The Cheney/Bush administration stonewalled the 9/11 commission before reluctantly allowing it to go ahead but with their own people in charge and Cheney and Bush not having to testify under oath . What were they hiding ??

Pat Tillman's questionable death was stonewalled by top Pentagon Generals until the freedom of Information Act brought it to light . What were they hiding ??

They were obviously hiding complicity !

Yesterday's Jeremy Scahill's article in The Nation / BLACKWATER : CIA ASSASSINS ? connects the dots between the CIA and Blackwater as well as their intimate connection with the Cheney/Bush White House.

Excerpt: " Now the New York Times is reporting that in 2004 the CIA hired Blackwater "as part of a secret program to locate and assassinate top operatives of Al Qaeda... A retired intelligence officer "intimately familiar with the assassination program" told the Washington Post, "Outsourcing gave the agency more protection in case something went wrong "... Reached by telephone, Illinois Democrat Jan Schakowsky, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, said that because of her oath of secrecy on sensitive intelligence issues, she could neither confirm nor deny that Congress was aware of Blackwater's involvement in this program before the Times report... "What we know now, if this is true, is that Blackwater was part of the highest level, the innermost circle strategizing and exercising strategy within the Bush administration," Schakowsky told The Nation. "Erik Prince operated at the highest and most secret level of the government. Clearly Prince ( who is facing the prospect of a potentially explosive civil trial over the killing of Iraqi civilians) was more trusted than the US Congress because Vice President Cheney made the decision not to brief Congress. This shows that there was absolutely no space whatsoever between the Bush administration and Blackwater." http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090831/scahill1

And now we have ex-Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge announcing yesterday that he was pressured to go to CODE ORANGE TERROR ALERT before the 2004 presidential election as a fear mongering political move to ensure a Bush/Cheney victory.

Connect the dots ~ a paranoid Dick Cheney, who is already outsourcing torture, enlists the CIA to hire Blackwater to assassinate specific targets. In early 2004 Cheney hears that Tillman is about to go public with his Iraq war misgivings and his support for John Kerry. Can't you picture Cheney confiding to Blackwater mafia boss Erick Prince " We have a problem with Tillman and it's an election year " and Prince replying " Worry no more, Chief ~ we'll handle it "

Well that is a great deal of stuff to look over and to tell you the truth as a contractor engaging in ground operations for any agency, we are certainly NOT privy to Panetta level stuff.  Ive never met the guy and certainly dont expect to share a pot of coffee with someone like him or Tom Ridge.  I did, however, know some guys that were in Tillman's Ranger Batt who were emphatic about describing the fog of war scenario that descended upon the convoy during the episode of his untimely death.  Even Rangers were subject to a lack of situational awareness and engaged what they thought at the time as a legitimate threat.  Many of the non-comms in his batt were young and relatively inexperienced, even as far as Rangers are concerned.  They hadnt seen very much active combat and were limited to knowledge of operations simply though training scenarios.

As for the "thin line" between Cheney and Blackwater, I find it increasingly difficult to believe that Prince's company ascended to that level on any measure.  Its not a mystery that any company (even one that has been granted no-bid contracts for intelligence agencies like BW) has attained such political preferences.  Its no secret among operators that often the best person for serious "wet work" is someone with a very high degree of deniability. People attached to a corporate structure and scrutinized in the press like BW is often are not a good source for this work, if it even exists.  As for the hit squad contract for Al-Qaeda, well this is a different animal entirely.  It was a program necessary on some level but was and is being supplanted just fine con-temporarily by UAV work - Predators and Reapers.  At this point the BW hit squad program would be redundant.  The reason congress was never briefed in my opinion, had nothing to do with Cheney or Prince but rather the fact that the presiding director wanted to have yet another option or card up his sleeve in case the agency was pressed for results in tracking and eliminating high value targets.  It hadn't reached the operational stages that other programs were in and large amounts (anything other than a few million dollars) of tax payer money had not been committed to R&D or implementation.  The director often has to balance what information to brief intelligence committee members on simply because they have several programs in the development stages. We are, after all, talking about an intelligence agency combating national threats and other highly secretive intelligence agencies that are considered our enemies.  To let every cat out of the bad would reduce the programs effectiveness dramatically.  No politician can keep a secret we've seen that.

Another disclosure I feel content about making would be to rebut the theory that the contemporary CIA has any hand whatsoever in voluntarily harming innocent people. I know for a fact, and yes I can say this first hand, that the agency is very careful on what enemy targets they select after approval is sought at the highest levels for termination.  I have personally witnessed the outright refusal of agency officials to engage high value targets in or around their family members or other innocent civilians.  And yes, this is after their identities were verified by credible SigInt or HumInt sources, not indigenous informants.  Mind you this took place during the "open-season" on Al Qaeda and Taliban targets post Operation Jawbreaker when any intel on actual targets was seriously considered as a potential green light for direct action.

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #97 on: September 11, 2009, 11:35:07 pm »
Did you specifically take an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic?

I have to be careful answering this specifically because it is clear to me that the presiding potus, as well as the governing body of all three branches are considered my superiors in ALL circumstances.  Domestic enemies are those who have declared war on freedom and the American way of life and threaten it inherently.  If this is what you mean, the answer would be a resounding affirm.  After all, Obamas picture hangs on the wall as the Commander and Chief of every agency and company I have ever served and this would include Xe, Inc.

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #98 on: September 11, 2009, 11:57:23 pm »
I have to be careful answering this specifically because it is clear to me that the presiding potus, as well as the governing body of all three branches are considered my superiors in ALL circumstances.  Domestic enemies are those who have declared war on freedom and the American way of life and threaten it inherently.  If this is what you mean, the answer would be a resounding affirm.  After all, Obamas picture hangs on the wall as the Commander and Chief of every agency and company I have ever served and this would include Xe, Inc.

If you took such an oath then why would you even casually support illegal wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?

I appreciate your candor and I understand that contractors I guess are similar to strippers, just trying to work their way through college. I am not in favor of an entire industry like stripping but they rarely rape children or execute grandmothers as far as I know.  CIA contractors in illegal wars do have a habit of doing this since Korea. I hardly see what type of national security this provides. In addition, the CIA being used as muscle for remnants of the east india trading company's drug, arms, child sex slave trafficking operations also does not seem to be in the interests of the US national security objectives. Again, I appreciate your willingness to answer I suppose as truthful as possible, but there seem to be some fundamental differences and for the life of me, I have no idea why you cannot answer about the oath? I mean if you are saying that your taking the oath is in conflict with a POTUS whose credentials are less than stellar, I find that utterly absurd.  Although Barack has been less than open, as far as I am concerned he has been sworn in as POTUS and is my president. And if I were to feel that his orders were illegal I would not follow them (same as if they were from Bush, Clinton, etc.). I also am supportive of a resolution reaffirming the constitutional eligibility requirements which hopefully would require his eligibility be proven prior to taking a second term. But forgetting about the Obama puppet, because his eligibility issue (if that is what all the mystery is about) is more of an exposure of the entire fake left/right paradigm rather than an issue with one guy who planned it all on his own.

As far as protecting and defending the constitution, I would imagine that the CIA instilling fear in the sworn in president to not do his job would be an exceedingly greater priority for an oath taker. So hopefully with all of that context you can answer the question.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #99 on: September 12, 2009, 12:00:31 am »
BTW, doesn't this disturb you being an oath taker...


SRC provides expert advice to combatant commanders developing plans for review and approval by the President or the Secretary of Defense
http://www.srcinc.com/what-we-do/product.aspx?id=104
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

JTCoyoté

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher Tonight!!
« Reply #100 on: September 12, 2009, 12:51:19 am »
This response is in reference to the SS analogy as well as the statement above.   One thing that is important to remember here, is that conventional armies, ie. armies that represent a nation have only existed for the last century and a half.  Mercenaries were used in every episode or war from the crusades all the way through the US Civil War on a limited basis.  What we have come to view as the norm, is not really the case.  Out of work soldiers were always employed in the ways that work the best for someone of their skill set.  Contractors were used on a large scale for many government projects that often flew under the radar because they were more clandestine than the CIA and often had larger black operating budgets, such as the NSA for example.  Did anyone know that the NSA has an unlimited black budget that doesn't require senate or congressional oversight, three times the field operations tempo and uses contractors exclusively for ALL their ground work?  Many still dont even realize that this agency has engaged in clandestine operations besides eavesdropping or SigInt.  This agency always escapes the radar and the CIA is often blamed for exposed operations or failed attempts at such.  

Interestingly enough, independent contractors often migrate between agency and PMC work routinely nowadays depending on the lucrativeness of the contract(s).  Often it requires an S or a TS clearance which is necessary in performing compartmentalized work of this nature.  

Blackwater as referred to here, will not and would not engage in any attempt as instituting martial law other than in direct support of a FEMA or Homeland Security directive such as the Katrina security efforts at federal facilities.  Many of these guys are husbands and fathers and have communicated to me on several occasions that their families and their loyalty to the USA comes first.  They would not heed any orders to do anything to jeopardize this.  Maybe for a heightened paycheck, some would.  But you have nuts in every batch, probably even in your workplaces I would imagine.

So what you are saying here, is that all of the empire building, and empire maintenance engaged in by Great Britain, oh from 1580 onward... up until this present day as a matter of fact, which would include the British soldiers that fought American soldiers and unpaid militia here during our War for Independence, were all mercenaries? I don't think so... as a matter of fact standing armies paid by the king... or in most nations from the time of the Crusades on, has been the standard order of business. Mercenaries have always been recruited for specific tasks however... like the Hessians that assisted the British, and got their butts handed to them by George Washington and the Continental Army at Trenton the day after Christmas 1776... that was well over 150 years ago. So what you would have us believe as not normal, actually, 'always' has been the norm for kingdoms, city-states, and nations... they have always primarily had armies or militias, yet they also used mercenaries for the specialty/dirty work... remember the SS from the beginning was actually Hitler's personal army... the SA was the party's Army.

The National Security Agency is the over arching controlling power of the corporate federal government... it is completely outside of the constitutional government, illegitimate as hell... and unconstitutional from the get go... as is Blackwater. What you describe in your second paragraph with Blackwater migrating from agency to PMC work throws up red flags the size of my house. And I think you know why.

Blackwater has no power to institute martial law, but in the hands of a lunatic, who may happen to have the keys to the Department of Homeland Security, or some other corporate Federal agency, as distinct from constitutional federal agencies, not many of the latter left I'm afraid... Blackwater would be the perfect tool for martial law... "depending upon the lucrativness of the contract"... You say many of these guys are husbands and fathers, and would do nothing to jeopardize the safety of their families or the security of the USA... Okay I'll accept that as a possibility, but what about the others? And I'm sure you've run into many of them as well...

JTCoyoté

''... and the rockets red glare,
the bombs bursting in air,
gave proof through the night,
that our flag was still there.
Oh say does that Star-Spangled Banner yet wave...
o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.''
~ Francis Scott Key, upon witnessing the globalist's
failed attempt, to bombard Fort McHenry into
submission, September 1814 -- War of 1812

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher Tonight!!
« Reply #101 on: September 12, 2009, 12:57:49 am »

''... and the rockets red glare,
the bombs bursting in air,
gave proof through the night,
that our flag was still there.
Oh say does that Star-Spangled Banner yet wave...
o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.''
~ Francis Scott Key, upon witnessing the globalist's
failed attempt, to bombard Fort McHenry into
submission, September 1814 -- War of 1812


Most appropriate quote ever!
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #102 on: September 12, 2009, 12:59:44 am »
If you took such an oath then why would you even casually support illegal wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?

I appreciate your candor and I understand that contractors I guess are similar to strippers, just trying to work their way through college. I am not in favor of an entire industry like stripping but they rarely rape children or execute grandmothers as far as I know.  CIA contractors in illegal wars do have a habit of doing this since Korea. I hardly see what type of national security this provides. In addition, the CIA being used as muscle for remnants of the east india trading company's drug, arms, child sex slave trafficking operations also does not seem to be in the interests of the US national security objectives. Again, I appreciate your willingness to answer I suppose as truthful as possible, but there seem to be some fundamental differences and for the life of me, I have no idea why you cannot answer about the oath? I mean if you are saying that your taking the oath is in conflict with a POTUS whose credentials are less than stellar, I find that utterly absurd.  Although Barack has been less than open, as far as I am concerned he has been sworn in as POTUS and is my president. And if I were to feel that his orders were illegal I would not follow them (same as if they were from Bush, Clinton, etc.). I also am supportive of a resolution reaffirming the constitutional eligibility requirements which hopefully would require his eligibility be proven prior to taking a second term. But forgetting about the Obama puppet, because his eligibility issue (if that is what all the mystery is about) is more of an exposure of the entire fake left/right paradigm rather than an issue with one guy who planned it all on his own.

As far as protecting and defending the constitution, I would imagine that the CIA instilling fear in the sworn in president to not do his job would be an exceedingly greater priority for an oath taker. So hopefully with all of that context you can answer the question.

What about my last post didnt register with you?  In no instance have I nor any of my team, unit, or associates not only not kill anyone not identified as an enemy either by the fact that they were pointing weapons at us or by intel sources that could see their hot mortar tubes being carried from deployment sites by FLIR cameras but we certainly didnt kill innocent civilians much less take part in any indecent acts that you described in your first sentence.  You get a great deal of your information from what many consider to be yellow journalism, and although I havent read through many of the articles, these are written by people who claim to be in the know.  I am the one who sees these things first hand, live and in person, experience the loss of soldiers targeted by the most ruthless enemies the US has ever faced, people that are not even indigenous to the regions in question but who use human shields and do business out of schools and the mosques they claim to be sacred.  

Casually support wars?  We have kicked in doors where non-indigenous Arabs were preparing to suit up barely teenage boys with suicide vests to use against US soldiers, contractors, local police, villagers, schools for women (with and without people in them), as well as people who have decided to vote.  I FULLY support this war until the potus tells me not to.  It is obvious from your viewpoint that no matter what I say you will retain the way you feel about war and the people who take part in them.  I believe that war, although an ugly side of humanity, is necessary in defending the freedoms that we so casually take for granted.  I have not and will not turn a blind eye to the fact that our enemies in the middle east are more fanatical about defeating us then are we are them.  They will continue to target American interests abroad, no matter if we have a presence in Iraq or Afghanistan at that time or not.  Hotels with may innocent people are considered the new soft target choice among VBIED's and suicide bombers.  Not because there are targets of interest in them but because they usually have occupants that "might" be westerners.  Al Qaeda and like minded groups will continue to maim, kill and destroy but I havent seen anything you've cited vilify them.  

Like I stated in the previous post, Obama is my commander and chief no matter what and how his decisions affect me or my employment opportunities, I will support him.  

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #103 on: September 12, 2009, 01:23:01 am »
What about my last post didnt register with you?  In no instance have I nor any of my team, unit, or associates not only not kill anyone not identified as an enemy either by the fact that they were pointing weapons at us or by intel sources that could see their hot mortar tubes being carried from deployment sites by FLIR cameras but we certainly didnt kill innocent civilians much less take part in any indecent acts that you described in your first sentence.  You get a great deal of your information from what many consider to be yellow journalism, and although I havent read through many of the articles, these are written by people who claim to be in the know.  I am the one who sees these things first hand, live and in person, experience the loss of soldiers targeted by the most ruthless enemies the US has ever faced, people that are not even indigenous to the regions in question but who use human shields and do business out of schools and the mosques they claim to be sacred.  

Casually support wars?  We have kicked in doors where non-indigenous Arabs were preparing to suit up barely teenage boys with suicide vests to use against US soldiers, contractors, local police, villagers, schools for women (with and without people in them), as well as people who have decided to vote.  I FULLY support this war until the potus tells me not to.  It is obvious from your viewpoint that no matter what I say you will retain the way you feel about war and the people who take part in them.  I believe that war, although an ugly side of humanity, is necessary in defending the freedoms that we so casually take for granted.  I have not and will not turn a blind eye to the fact that our enemies in the middle east are more fanatical about defeating us then are we are them.  They will continue to target American interests abroad, no matter if we have a presence in Iraq or Afghanistan at that time or not.  Hotels with may innocent people are considered the new soft target choice among VBIED's and suicide bombers.  Not because there are targets of interest in them but because they usually have occupants that "might" be westerners.  Al Qaeda and like minded groups will continue to maim, kill and destroy but I havent seen anything you've cited vilify them.  

Like I stated in the previous post, Obama is my commander and chief no matter what and how his decisions affect me or my employment opportunities, I will support him.  

What exactly do you fail to understand?

I said why do you even casually support illegal wars?

Why would you be kicking in any doors? Why are you there?

I mean I understand many of the brave american soldiers serving their country honorably (there is a complete section in this forum that exposes the plan by the CFR/Bilderberg to systematically exterminate these brave men and women sworn to protect the contsitution and the rights enforced within) and not having the wherewithal to understand the concept of being put in harms way for geopolitical power plays. But you know what I am talking about. You are very aware that the war is illegal and you are not one of those soldiers. You are a CIA contractor thrown into a hot zone that is hot because of an illegal occupation.

Pat Tillman knew this very well.

--------------------

Pat Tillman: 'You know, this war is so f***ing illegal.'
________________

Pat Tillman, Our Hero  
Dave Zirin October 24, 2005 issue The Nation


"I don't believe it," seethed Ann Coulter.  Her contempt was directed at a September 25 San Francisco Chronicle story reporting that former NFL star and Army Ranger war hero Pat Tillman, who was killed in Afghanistan last year, believed the US war on Iraq was "f***ing illegal" and counted Noam Chomsky among his favorite authors. It must have been quite a moment for Coulter, who upon Tillman's death described him in her inimitably creepy fashion as "an American original--virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be." She tried to discredit the story as San Francisco agitprop, but this approach ran into a slight problem: The article's source was Pat Tillman's mother, Mary.

Mary and the Tillman family are relentlessly pushing for answers to the questions surrounding Pat's death in Afghanistan. They want to know why it took the Pentagon five weeks to tell them he died in a tragic case of friendly fire. They want to know why they were unwitting props at Pat's funeral, weeping while lies were told by eulogizing politicians. Mary is now hoping that a new Pentagon inquiry will bring closure. "There have been so many discrepancies so far that it's hard to know what to believe," she said to the Chronicle. "There are too many murky details."

The very private Tillmans have revealed a picture of Pat profoundly at odds with the GI Joe image created by Pentagon spinmeisters and their media stenographers. As the Chronicle put it, family and friends are now unveiling "a side of Pat Tillman not widely known--a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty. He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books...to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author." Tillman had very unembedded feelings about the Iraq War. His close friend Army Spec. Russell Baer remembered, "I can see it like a movie screen. We were outside of [an Iraqi city] watching as bombs were dropping on the town.... We were talking. And Pat said, 'You know, this war is so f***ing illegal.' And we all said, 'Yeah.' That's who he was. He totally was against Bush." With these revelations, Pat Tillman the PR icon joins WMD and Al Qaeda connections on the heap of lies used to sell the Iraq War.

Tillman's transition from one-dimensional caricature to critically thinking human being is a long time coming. The fact is that in death he was far more useful to the armchair warriors than he had ever been in life. When the Pro Bowler joined the Army Rangers, the Pentagon brass needed a loofah to wipe their drool: He was white, handsome and played in the NFL. For a chicken-hawk Administration led by a President who loves the affectations of machismo but runs from protesting military moms, this testosterone cocktail was impossible to resist. The problem was that Tillman wouldn't play their game. To the Pentagon's chagrin, he turned down numerous offers to be its recruitment poster child.

But when Tillman fell in Afghanistan the wheels once again started to turn. Now the narrative was perfect: "War hero and football star dies fighting terror." The Abu Ghraib scandal was about to hit the press, so the President found it especially useful to praise Tillman as "an inspiration on and off the football field, as with all who made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror." His funeral was nationally televised. Bush even went back to the bloody well during the presidential campaign, addressing his team's fans on the Arizona Cardinals' stadium Jumbotron.

We now know, of course, that this was all a brutal charade. Such callous manipulation is fueling the Tillman family's anger. As Mary Tillman said this past May, "They could have told us up front that they were suspicious that [his death] was a fratricide, but they didn't. They wanted to use him for their purposes.... They needed something that looked good, and it was appalling that they would use him like that." A growing number of military families, similarly angered, are criticizing the war in Iraq through organizations like Military Families Speak Out.

As for Chomsky, whom Ann Coulter would undoubtedly label "treasonous," Mary Tillman says a private meeting was planned between him and Pat after Pat's return--a meeting that never took place, of course. Chomsky confirms this scenario. This was the real Pat Tillman: someone who, like the majority of this country, was doubting the rationale for war, distrusting his Commander in Chief and looking for answers. The real Pat Tillman, the one with three dimensions, must stick in the throat of the Bush-Coulter gang, a pit in the cherry atop their bloody sundae.

----------------------------------

So why are you using rhetoric about justifiable defenses of freedom:

"I believe that war, although an ugly side of humanity, is necessary in defending the freedoms that we so casually take for granted."

Absolutely this is true, but this is an illegal war, genocide, occupation which has systematically removed over 1.5 million souls from the planet without any increased safety to our freedoms. Actually quite the contrary.

As for all of your examples, you do realize that islamic fundamentalism was created by brzezinski andf kissinger in the late 1970's right? And it was done out of an illegal engagement by CIA contractors right? You do realize the result of this is blowback right? You further realize that the current illegal engagements are bound to cause more blowback in the future right?

You further realize that the hotel bombings are caused by CIA contractors and not these boogiemen you are referring to right? All of the Marriotts bombings were preceded on video tape with us troops loading crates into those hotels right?

you further realize that the attacks on 9/11 were caused by brzezinski and kissinger to justify the illegal wars we now speak of right?

your masterful gift of conveying dramatic and emotional scenes is admirable, but it has little to do with anything factual regarding the legality of the engagement, and the assumed assistance to national security that it will supposedly provide.

so how are you more of an authority on the engagement than pat tillman?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #104 on: September 12, 2009, 01:32:20 am »


Pat Tillman Feared PR Blitz
Ex-NFL Star, Who Died in Afghanistan By Friendly Fire, Was Wary of Gov't Using Soldiers as Media Tools, Book Alleges


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/11/national/main5303235.shtml

By Dana Chivvis
Sept. 11, 2009

(CBS)  Jon Krakauer's newest book reveals how the Bush administration turned the friendly fire death of Pat Tillman in Afghanistan into a propaganda victory. "Where Men Win Glory: The Odyssey of Pat Tillman" follows the story of Tillman's life through his death at the hands of his platoon to the smoke and mirrors orchestrated by the Pentagon and White House, reports ABC News and the LA Times.

Krakauer includes passages from Tillman's diary that show a keen awareness of the propaganda that would follow his death. While on his first mission as an Army Ranger, Tillman was sent to rescue Pvt. Jessica Lynch, a soldier who had been captured by militants in Iraq. Lynch was falsely characterized by the Pentagon as a military hero who had gone down with guns blazing. She later testified that she had not fired a single bullet.

"This mission will be a P.O.W. rescue, a woman named Jessica Lynch," Tillman wrote. "As awful as I feel for the fear she must face, and admire the courage I'm sure she's showing, I do believe this to be a big Public Relations stunt. Do not mistake me, I wish everyone in trouble to be rescued, but sending this many folks for a single low ranking soldier screams of media blitz."

A year later, Tillman was the center of another public relations stunt when the Bush administration said he died fighting the Taliban, rewrote eyewitness testimony, awarded him a Silver Star, and broke its own law by announcing his death within 24 hours of his family learning of it.

Tillman seemed to predict that the government would turn him into a false hero. Spc. Jade Lane, a friend of Tillman's, told Krakauer that during their first night as Army Rangers in Iraq, Tillman had told him he was worried that if anything happened to him, the government would create a media blitz around him.

"One night he said that he was afraid that if something happened to him, they would parade him through the streets," Lane said. "And those were his exact words: 'I don't want them to parade me through the streets.' It just burned into my brain, him saying that."
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline AncientChild

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #105 on: September 12, 2009, 01:39:44 am »
Wow, Sane. Great links, great info, great debating. When are YOU getting a show? lol

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #106 on: September 12, 2009, 01:44:52 am »
Wow, Sane. Great links, great info, great debating. When are YOU getting a show? lol

thanks, but i really do get so much shit wrong, am an impatient asshole who never listens, and am just some random group of people ( ;) ) hitting keys and clicking buttons.

if you find anything of use, please spread it around and call it your own. change it around, use whatever works, just please get the information out everywhere you can (after verifying of course with multiple independent sources).
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #107 on: September 12, 2009, 10:28:41 am »
What war do you feel is legal then?  They ALL have elements that make them circumspect or unpopular.  If the US didnt have an intelligence agency working towards it benefit, it would certainly be compromised by other nations intelligence agencies and their contractors.  What do you propose we do in absence of one then?  Have you outlined a plan? I would be curious to hear it.

What is written about Tillman above conflicts with just about 90% of what I have heard from Rangers in his Battalion.  I am quite sure that the left has used just as much of this as a promotional angle for their purposes just as much as you believe Ann Coulter or the right has.  It is the nature of the business.  Tillman was really into becoming and performing as a US Ranger and this is paraphrased directly from his comrades.  I cannot for the life of me see him in such conflict as the articles portray above.  He might of mentioned something casually to the effect that he didnt want to be used by the media or the government as a promotional tool but this was mostly likely just casual conversation. 

All the media hype in many of the articles to me is laughable, especially the premise that the CIA killed Kennedy and I will tell you why.  I have performed many, many agency operations with operators trained to the fullest extent in spec ops training and then further by the agency that you so clearly disdain.  One thing remains certain to me.  Every single op DID NOT go as planned and a myriad of mistakes were made; intelligence sources were incorrect causing insertions way off the mark, operators bungled snatch and grabs or actually assaulted the wrong target building, hide sites were prematurely exposed, sensitive equipment such as encrypted radios were left behind.  The common theme is that even the best plans were exposed on some level and something as complex as the alleged assassination of the potus would certainly be no exception.  It would go horribly wrong no matter who on the inside was in on it.  Someone would be exposed or come forward, someone would leave definite telltale signs. 

You can cite media sources all you want but the truth is the media will portray what they want no matter the actual cold hard truth.  It was evident when the initial Afghan conflict touched off that the media had the story they wanted to feed the American public despite the truth of actual events.  We assaulted numerous empty buildings to give the media a peek at what we were actually doing in the first days after 9/11.  The truth as those who were there know it much differently and this is inherently the problem with public perception.  You can compile every single journalistic report with numerous alleged sources and I can guarantee you that the people who have first hand knowledge of the incident will tell a very different story.

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #108 on: September 12, 2009, 02:29:39 pm »
What war do you feel is legal then?  They ALL have elements that make them circumspect or unpopular.  If the US didnt have an intelligence agency working towards it benefit, it would certainly be compromised by other nations intelligence agencies and their contractors.  What do you propose we do in absence of one then?  Have you outlined a plan? I would be curious to hear it.

There is like a seven page document written at an eighth grade level, it is called the constitution. In it, it specifically outlines who can declare war and who cannot. Since WWII there has not been a legal war waged by the United States. All of the wars have been raged to enforce UN resolutions. That means the United States military has been reduced to a tool for the UN's slow geopolitical control throughout the world.  After the failure with the Vietnam draft in forced conscription of American citizens to support the international banking elite (that controls the UN), contractors were seen as a way to still use the military arsenal of the US on behalf of the international banking elites without pissing off too many American Citizens.  This has been going on for the past 30 years  including the CIA's use of contractor Osama Bin Laden (who I do not believe took an oath to protect and defend the United States of America from all enemies foreign and domestic) as well as CIA "contractor" and Donald Rumsfeld buddy Saddam Hussein, and even before that was the Sha of Iran who was a CIA "contractor". Army and Navy intelligence has always been available, you hardly need an organization founded by a Nazi General who took an oath to pledge his life to the visions of Adolf Hitler.

Quote
What is written about Tillman above conflicts with just about 90% of what I have heard from Rangers in his Battalion.  I am quite sure that the left has used just as much of this as a promotional angle for their purposes just as much as you believe Ann Coulter or the right has.  It is the nature of the business.  Tillman was really into becoming and performing as a US Ranger and this is paraphrased directly from his comrades.  I cannot for the life of me see him in such conflict as the articles portray above.  He might of mentioned something casually to the effect that he didnt want to be used by the media or the government as a promotional tool but this was mostly likely just casual conversation.

Although I am so utterly ashamed of my being a part of the entire human race upon reading your comments, I will compose my response out of respect to your oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States of America from all enemies foreign and domestic. If you do not mind could you humor me and read the letter to the nation in honor of Pat Tillman from his brother who refused to speak out until he could refuse no longer. Kevin is without his brother today. But he still, through the depths of hell he must have been put through, musters up the courage to defend our liberties and freedoms in a way at least as equal to his combat missions overseas:

----------------
LETTER FROM PAT TILLMAN'S BROTHER
http://www.prorev.com/2006/10/letter-from-pat-tillmans-brother.htm
Sunday, October 22, 2006

KEVIN TILLMAN - It is Pat's birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice... until we get out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can't be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few "bad apples" in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It's interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don't be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that "somehow" was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat's birthday.

[Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin was discharged in 2005.]

---------------

There is something you may not know and how could you. I am in utter awe of the Tillman family. I mean I can hardly breathe when I think about them. At this very moment I am shedding tears of absolute humbleness in knowing that such people inhabit our land. Among the information we are being fed 24/7 by false left/right paradigms, Mrs. Tillman specifically has brought sanity to the country. She has brought honor to the military. She has given me complete faith in the soldier on the battlefield again. Kevin has confirmed and elaborated on what many have already known: future generations will wonder in amazement at how such a courageous and decent man as Pat Tillman ever existed.  I apologize if my response on that last statement is emotional, I am human and such displays of humanness exemplified by the Tillman family do have an impact on my life.

Quote
All the media hype in many of the articles to me is laughable, especially the premise that the CIA killed Kennedy and I will tell you why.  I have performed many, many agency operations with operators trained to the fullest extent in spec ops training and then further by the agency that you so clearly disdain.  One thing remains certain to me.  Every single op DID NOT go as planned and a myriad of mistakes were made; intelligence sources were incorrect causing insertions way off the mark, operators bungled snatch and grabs or actually assaulted the wrong target building, hide sites were prematurely exposed, sensitive equipment such as encrypted radios were left behind.  The common theme is that even the best plans were exposed on some level and something as complex as the alleged assassination of the potus would certainly be no exception.  It would go horribly wrong no matter who on the inside was in on it.  Someone would be exposed or come forward, someone would leave definite telltale signs.

A few minor points, I do not disdain the CIA in general. I just do not see how they provide for national security, yet I do see how they definitely are a threat to national security in a multitude of ways. As far as CIA killing Kennedy, this is not from articles it is a fact from unclassified documents, witness testimonies, and judgments from the courts. But more to the point on things going wrong. Well of course, 100 billion CIA agents will never have the power of the human spirit and will never control the free will of man, that is why I have included the manual for you.  It is not important to make everything perfect and that is obvious with the Harriman/Bush/Rockefeller assassination of JFK. Simply watch the movies I posted to get some knowledge of what occurred, the mistakes that were made, and how they were covered up. When you are done with those, there are another 10 hours of documentaries that may assist your comprehension of what exactly the CIA is, its mission, its foundation, its purpose, and its future. Fair enough?

Quote
You can cite media sources all you want but the truth is the media will portray what they want no matter the actual cold hard truth.  It was evident when the initial Afghan conflict touched off that the media had the story they wanted to feed the American public despite the truth of actual events.  We assaulted numerous empty buildings to give the media a peek at what we were actually doing in the first days after 9/11.  The truth as those who were there know it much differently and this is inherently the problem with public perception.  You can compile every single journalistic report with numerous alleged sources and I can guarantee you that the people who have first hand knowledge of the incident will tell a very different story.

Absolutely this is very, very important. Of course we remember that it was precisely the CFR/Bilderberg controlled media that got us into the war (as you say with a biasness) on behalf of the Private Federal Reserve for unprecedented debt accumulation (the way banks make money). But notwithstanding, I believe you are referring to the need to get first hand information concerning the first year's activities in the illegal occupation of Afghanistan.  Well, would you regard this as an accurate first hand account that is not influenced by the media?

Siege of Kunduz occurred November 11-23, 2001
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4381
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #109 on: September 12, 2009, 05:08:44 pm »
Well I couldnt get the article to load but I know enough about Kunduz and Dostum to tell you fact from fiction.  I know that the assertion that special forces soldiers tortured prisoners who made it to Sherberghan is an outright lie. There is no secret in Dostums methods, it is crystal clear brutality.  Im sure he knew what he was doing when he packed those prisoners on that train.  Im sure that Karzai attempting to reinstate him as the defense minister of Afghanistan is somewhere in your book as pure evil and to be honest, I would agree but such is the nature of this region.  Every warlord or tribesman contact we had in country was corrupt, had fought for or against other less than reputable tribes or looted towns or tortured innocent or presumably guilty people.  You have to understand that this is the way it has ALWAYS been with these people.  They have seen armies come and go since Alexander the Great and warfare is all they have known.

You might call our presence in Afghanistan an illegal war but that would be akin to calling an ant farm a misrepresentation of their environment - even if it were, they dont know or care about the difference and neither has 3000 years of their ancestors. To the warlord culture, we are just another force to "contract" themselves out to for money or land or supplies or whatever they want to barter in exchange for their honed skills as warring tribesmen or advisers of war. 

Do I care that potentially 5000 some odd Taliban possibly died at the hands of yet another warlord?  Not really and here's why:  They would have died in battle or farmed themselves out to Dostum himself or possibly even another more ruthless warlord to do the same to another tribe had we given them another decade or so.  The simply redraw their allegiances based on opportunity.  Sure they would like Sharia Law instituted and see millions suffer at the hands of Muslim extremism and intolerance for education, gender equality, and anything resembling a free market economy or an actual working democracy.  The town that I spent a great deal of time in was Taliban free but guess what?  It was run by a Hadji whose only qualification was that he alone made the pilgrimage to Mecca, thus he was the judge, jury and executioner.  He decided if someone lived or died for their actions, if someone stealing goats milk because they hadnt eaten in 3 weeks would be impaled and left out in the 130 degree heat to rot.  People in our country DO NOT understand the differences in culture in this region, they believe that Afghani's are worse off because we are there or creating adversity for the culture.  This is highly debatable because often much worse events would be transpiring and have transpired before we arrived. 

As for the ODA teams working with Northern Alliance warlords?  Dostum would've been their last choice had they even had one.  The warlord they had preferred to work with had been killed in a Taliban suicide bombing before Jawbreaker had even started.


Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #110 on: September 12, 2009, 05:34:51 pm »
Well I couldnt get the article to load but I know enough about Kunduz and Dostum to tell you fact from fiction.  I know that the assertion that special forces soldiers tortured prisoners who made it to Sherberghan is an outright lie. There is no secret in Dostums methods, it is crystal clear brutality.  Im sure he knew what he was doing when he packed those prisoners on that train.  Im sure that Karzai attempting to reinstate him as the defense minister of Afghanistan is somewhere in your book as pure evil and to be honest, I would agree but such is the nature of this region.  Every warlord or tribesman contact we had in country was corrupt, had fought for or against other less than reputable tribes or looted towns or tortured innocent or presumably guilty people.  You have to understand that this is the way it has ALWAYS been with these people.  They have seen armies come and go since Alexander the Great and warfare is all they have known.

I think perhaps the talking points you are given may be outdated because it is almost as if you are scanning for a few words that match up with some words on a cheat sheet or something. Since I took the time to write what I wrote out of respect for you could you at the very least read it? I mean I know you have a superior tactical advantage from "first hand" blah blah, but really, if you cannot even read a paragraph of information what the hell is the CIA doing contracting you anyway?

Quote
You might call our presence in Afghanistan an illegal war but that would be akin to calling an ant farm a misrepresentation of their environment - even if it were, they dont know or care about the difference and neither has 3000 years of their ancestors. To the warlord culture, we are just another force to "contract" themselves out to for money or land or supplies or whatever they want to barter in exchange for their honed skills as warring tribesmen or advisers of war. 

Well an illegal war involves I guess mass murder, genocide, raping, pillaging, etc. An illegal was by the United States is a war that has not been declared, that is what makes it illegal. THe ant farm thing is some theater of the absurd tactic so I will just respond with a similar absurd counter argument: "pie cheese". I think that is about as equal a rebuttal as the one you presented. As far as your presumed knowledge of the Afgan history, everything you are saying adds more evidence to the absolutely per-determined suicidal foreign policy move of initiating the genocide.[/quote]

Quote
Do I care that potentially 5000 some odd Taliban possibly died at the hands of yet another warlord?  Not really and here's why:  They would have died in battle or farmed themselves out to Dostum himself or possibly even another more ruthless warlord to do the same to another tribe had we given them another decade or so.  The simply redraw their allegiances based on opportunity.  Sure they would like Sharia Law instituted and see millions suffer at the hands of Muslim extremism and intolerance for education, gender equality, and anything resembling a free market economy or an actual working democracy.  The town that I spent a great deal of time in was Taliban free but guess what?  It was run by a Hadji whose only qualification was that he alone made the pilgrimage to Mecca, thus he was the judge, jury and executioner.  He decided if someone lived or died for their actions, if someone stealing goats milk because they hadnt eaten in 3 weeks would be impaled and left out in the 130 degree heat to rot.  People in our country DO NOT understand the differences in culture in this region, they believe that Afghani's are worse off because we are there or creating adversity for the culture.  This is highly debatable because often much worse events would be transpiring and have transpired before we arrived. 

Why do you have this ineffable desire to demonize a sovereign nation's people especially when the main reason they have been radicalized is due to the CIA contracting that went on during the late 1970s. I mean why would you promote pouring thermite on a gasoline fire? Seems counter productive to me, but what do I know, you are the one with the "first hand knowledge". Also it is not 500, in the siege mentioned earlier alone up to 10,000 or more were stuffed into trucks and then driven through the hot sun for hours until most dies with their brains melting. It was in the order of the gas chambers of Nazi Germany. There was no rule of military conduct or any attempt at Geneva convention compliance for prisoners of war (well since the war was illegal in the first place, this really was just straight up murder). Also we have been using white sulfite, microwave weapons, directed energy weapons, the most horrendous forms of debauchery known to man. And this is not under direction of the military, but of CIA contractors (as well as other contractors from SAS, MI6, Mossad, etc)

Quote
As for the ODA teams working with Northern Alliance warlords?  Dostum would've been their last choice had they even had one.  The warlord they had preferred to work with had been killed in a Taliban suicide bombing before Jawbreaker had even started.

ummm ok, not sure how you mean. If a war is illegal, why do you assume they need to comply with slavery status?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #111 on: September 12, 2009, 06:16:41 pm »
Quote from: Sane
Why do you have this ineffable desire to demonize a sovereign nation's people especially when the main reason they have been radicalized is due to the CIA contracting that went on during the late 1970s. I mean why would you promote pouring thermite on a gasoline fire? Seems counter productive to me, but what do I know, you are the one with the "first hand knowledge". Also it is not 500, in the siege mentioned earlier alone up to 10,000 or more were stuffed into trucks and then driven through the hot sun for hours until most dies with their brains melting. It was in the order of the gas chambers of Nazi Germany. There was no rule of military conduct or any attempt at Geneva convention compliance for prisoners of war (well since the war was illegal in the first place, this really was just straight up murder). Also we have been using white sulfite, microwave weapons, directed energy weapons, the most horrendous forms of debauchery known to man. And this is not under direction of the military, but of CIA contractors (as well as other contractors from SAS, MI6, Mossad, etc)

ok, in all due respect this is laughable only because again you, like most westerners who haven't been in country assume that Afghanistan even remotely resembles a sovereign nation.  It is nothing of the sort.  I believe that you are a very intelligent and well read individual but understand that this country is a collection of warlords as mentioned in my previous post who constantly redraw their allegiances based on what they want to acquire and in the process they are to busy kicking the living shit out of each other and any civilians in their close proximity.  They use antiquated anti-tank and anti-personnel mines which were leftover or modified from Soviet artillery shells, similar to the construction of IEDs. There is no sovereignty or normalcy there, only people who were dying LONG before CIA intervention in the Soviet conflict.  These tribes were actually more ruthless prior to the CIA was there because their idea of justice was often a rifle but the head or a sword across the throat in lieu of a trial or even a plea.  The towns, such as Kandahar, changed hands tribal control so many times the local constabulary didn't know who were the good and bad guys form month to month.  Does this make our presence their right?  I dont know.  Wars are not fought any longer like any Geneva convention could envision and World War II was a menagerie of violations on the part of both sides but the winners always write the history books.

Only a civilian would compare the alleged massacre of Taliban insurgents who kill on a moments notice anyone who violates their sacred Sharia law or cuts the ears and noses off of innocent women and children because they are educating girls to non-combatant Jews. You can bet I enjoyed that one, as it stands some of the men on that train have strangled, maimed and/or disemboweled just as many innocent people as the Nazis.  Ironically I bet no one would have minded if that train contained Nazis so why is there such an uproar over Taliban?  To me, there is little difference.  

As for microwave weapons or thermite, I can only assume the article had some conspiracy theory regarding the use of these in order to expedite the killing of the Taliban on the train.  Im honest in telling you that the article wouldnt load.  A message came up on my Firefox page in German when I clicked on the link and nothing appeared.  I tried.  But I dont think this Hollywood conspiracy took place at all if thats what it surmised.  I believe it was simply a lack of concern about the welfare of a tribe by Dostum that allowed itself to be puppets of Al Qaeda Arabs who are the perpetrators of the real illegal war. It is clear to many Afghanis that they do not want Al Qaeda or the Taliban there and they are convinced that the Taliban bring worse options for them that the Americans ever would.  

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #112 on: September 12, 2009, 08:04:21 pm »
ok, in all due respect this is laughable only because again you, like most westerners who haven't been in country assume that Afghanistan even remotely resembles a sovereign nation.  It is nothing of the sort.  I believe that you are a very intelligent and well read individual but understand that this country is a collection of warlords as mentioned in my previous post who constantly redraw their allegiances based on what they want to acquire and in the process they are to busy kicking the living shit out of each other and any civilians in their close proximity.  They use antiquated anti-tank and anti-personnel mines which were leftover or modified from Soviet artillery shells, similar to the construction of IEDs. There is no sovereignty or normalcy there, only people who were dying LONG before CIA intervention in the Soviet conflict.  These tribes were actually more ruthless prior to the CIA was there because their idea of justice was often a rifle but the head or a sword across the throat in lieu of a trial or even a plea.  The towns, such as Kandahar, changed hands tribal control so many times the local constabulary didn't know who were the good and bad guys form month to month.  Does this make our presence their right?  I dont know.  Wars are not fought any longer like any Geneva convention could envision and World War II was a menagerie of violations on the part of both sides but the winners always write the history books.

Now I am very confused. You are saying that Afghanistan is not a sovereign state? That it was not a sovereign state when we illegally invaded but a collection of warlords? Why did we invade? I mean it is nice that you have a superior intellect like Kahn in Star Trek II, but I cannot help but say: "I am laughing at the superior intellect". I mean again, did you ever read what I wrote?  Sure, it is I suppose a small achievement to take one word out of 500 and build a case on that word. I guess the word you chose was sovereign. And like anyone who cannot possibly defend the genocide overseas, I suppose your testament to humanity will be to obfuscate the truth "By Any Mean Necessary" from a dialectic point of view. So again...US foreign policy radicalized the region for later projects (standard operating procedure with the British Empire, East/West India Trading Company). We then exterminated 3,000 people on 9/11/2001 in order to justify getting back into the region. No clue what your "warlord" experience provides to escape these incontrovertible facts.  But seems like you are just fumbling around to get the best index card talking point paragraph so I am sure it will be filled with hubris, ego-pacification, holier than thou attitude, some random three letter acronyms, and additional information on how cool you are under pressure.  

Quote
Only a civilian would compare the alleged massacre of Taliban insurgents who kill on a moments notice anyone who violates their sacred Sharia law or cuts the ears and noses off of innocent women and children because they are educating girls to non-combatant Jews. You can bet I enjoyed that one, as it stands some of the men on that train have strangled, maimed and/or disemboweled just as many innocent people as the Nazis.  Ironically I bet no one would have minded if that train contained Nazis so why is there such an uproar over Taliban?  To me, there is little difference.  

Yes we are aware of calling human beings, civilians to condition some Tavistock class system that really does not exist, but I digress. You fantastical stories seem to be right out of Dick Cheney's anus. I mean really, the radicalization is due to an illegal foreign policy, the sharia law is due to the strategy of defending these radicalized fundamentalists. We are the ones creating Sharia law not them, please at least get something right, WTF?

And concerning this quote:

"I bet no one would have minded if that train contained Nazis so why is there such an uproar over Taliban?  To me, there is little difference."

That is precisely why our foreign policy is creating us as the Nazis and them as the communists/jews/homosexuals/etc.

Your classification of them is a prime reason why Nazi genocide can occur. Please do not promote violence on this forum. Ever. Including against Afghani babies, their grandmothers, their sisters, brothers, uncles, etc. This forum promotes non-violent non-cooperation. You are promoting genocide, torture, abuse, and mass extermination programs.

Quote
As for microwave weapons or thermite, I can only assume the article had some conspiracy theory regarding the use of these in order to expedite the killing of the Taliban on the train.  Im honest in telling you that the article wouldnt load.  A message came up on my Firefox page in German when I clicked on the link and nothing appeared.  I tried.  But I dont think this Hollywood conspiracy took place at all if thats what it surmised.  I believe it was simply a lack of concern about the welfare of a tribe by Dostum that allowed itself to be puppets of Al Qaeda Arabs who are the perpetrators of the real illegal war. It is clear to many Afghanis that they do not want Al Qaeda or the Taliban there and they are convinced that the Taliban bring worse options for them that the Americans ever would.  

Again it is becoming more obvious that this is some kind of a robotic program to search a word from a paragraph and then reply with a cookie cutter response that has nothing to do with the paragraph being replied to. Looks like the word chosen here is microwave. Well I will leave you with the results of this fantasy conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality:

http://masters-of-war.org/deathculture2.html

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Freeski

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,706
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #113 on: September 12, 2009, 08:48:51 pm »
There is like a seven page document written at an eighth grade level, it is called the constitution. In it, it specifically outlines who can declare war and who cannot. Since WWII there has not been a legal war waged by the United States. All of the wars have been raged to enforce UN resolutions. That means the United States military has been reduced to a tool for the UN's slow geopolitical control throughout the world.

That is so important and well said!
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

luckee1

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #114 on: September 12, 2009, 09:26:41 pm »
Oh guys please do continue....

I have not been so immersed in the dialectic in so long. 

Fraction, I do not know what position you hold in your 'contractor' status, but I am curious as to what your superiors would say knowing you are posting in this forum. 

It is kind of unfair of Sane to ask you information that you are not privy to (CIA/JFK) but you did post with the tone of one who defends the Powers that be, rather than the constitution.  Further you weighed in on the "people that were there" having a different story (911) versus 'conspiracy theories'.  Unfortunately for the talking heads and the disinfo artists, we here have testimonies and video and many sources that tell a far different tale than what Bush/Cheney had to say. 

Additionally I would like you to consider something:  As with every other non elite that died for the Machine/nwo/whatever, we are all fodder for that machine.  What makes you think the oath to 'Protect American Freedom and way of life", equals defending the constitution?  Nowhere in the constitution is there a pledge to the president or his life.  Due to your responses thus far, I am very concerned you might have been programmed.

You are just as much a 'walking sand bag' as a grunt in the Marine Corps.  Why does it seem you speak from the comfort of your social standing?

By the way if you are here to be a part of our community, welcome.

Offline donnay

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,928
  • Live Free Or Die Trying!
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #115 on: September 12, 2009, 09:39:54 pm »
I believe that war, although an ugly side of humanity, is necessary in defending the freedoms that we so casually take for granted.  I have not and will not turn a blind eye to the fact that our enemies in the middle east are more fanatical about defeating us then are we are them.  They will continue to target American interests abroad, no matter if we have a presence in Iraq or Afghanistan at that time or not.  Hotels with may innocent people are considered the new soft target choice among VBIED's and suicide bombers.  Not because there are targets of interest in them but because they usually have occupants that "might" be westerners.  Al Qaeda and like minded groups will continue to maim, kill and destroy but I havent seen anything you've cited vilify them.  

What particular freedoms have we lost in the middle east?  Could it be the Caspian pipeline going through Afghanistan was more of a reason to deploy our troops there than CIA asset Osama Bin Laden hiding there?

"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none."  ~Thomas Jefferson

Quote
Like I stated in the previous post, Obama is my commander and chief no matter what and how his decisions affect me or my employment opportunities, I will support him. 

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."  ~Theodore Roosevelt
Please visit my website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

Offline stella

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #116 on: September 12, 2009, 09:56:41 pm »
I have to be careful answering this specifically because it is clear to me that the presiding potus, as well as the governing body of all three branches are considered my superiors in ALL circumstances.  Domestic enemies are those who have declared war on freedom and the American way of life and threaten it inherently.  If this is what you mean, the answer would be a resounding affirm.  After all, Obamas picture hangs on the wall as the Commander and Chief of every agency and company I have ever served and this would include Xe, Inc.

Hey fraction -  there's a group of cops, military, firemen, etc. called the "oath-keepers" who understand that, inherent in their oath to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION and no one person or group of people, is the promise that, should they ever be given unconstitutional orders, it is their DUTY to refuse to carry them out.  Such unconstitutional orders include:

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

Please see http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/03/03/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/ for the full length version.

OUR constitution is there to protect us from the natural fact that people in power will always try to get more power until eventually they have all the power.  It is the only protection that we have from that fact.  When it is compromised, that is the only thing that threatens the American way of life. That is the only thing you have taken an oath to uphold.  Would you agree?

Offline fraction

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #117 on: September 12, 2009, 09:57:07 pm »
Quote
Yes we are aware of calling human beings, civilians to condition some Tavistock class system that really does not exist, but I digress. You fantastical stories seem to be right out of Dick Cheney's anus. I mean really, the radicalization is due to an illegal foreign policy, the sharia law is due to the strategy of defending these radicalized fundamentalists. We are the ones creating Sharia law not them, please at least get something right, WTF?

And concerning this quote:

"I bet no one would have minded if that train contained Nazis so why is there such an uproar over Taliban?  To me, there is little difference."

That is precisely why our foreign policy is creating us as the Nazis and them as the communists/jews/homosexuals/etc.

Your classification of them is a prime reason why Nazi genocide can occur. Please do not promote violence on this forum. Ever. Including against Afghani babies, their grandmothers, their sisters, brothers, uncles, etc. This forum promotes non-violent non-cooperation. You are promoting genocide, torture, abuse, and mass extermination programs.

Ok well I guess all this diatribe back and forth did little to educate each other on diametric viewpoints but simply embedded us further in our entrenched beliefs of what we already have come to see as truths beyond all reproach.  

In closing I will say this, what you accuse me of you perpetrate yourself.  Your playbook is well stocked with keywords that typecast me and my associates as baby killers, barbarians at war against the weak, the innocent and the unarmed.  Nothing and I mean NOTHING could be further from the truth but through repetitive wild generalizations you attempt to make me look guilty even though I can wake up, look at myself in the mirror each morning and know beyond all doubt that none of this EVER occurred on my watch or those that I know, work with or have even met while in-country.  I do not abdicate violence or genocide.  Our enemies in Afghanistan have declared themselves as such and I have seen the hatred the rage in their eyes for ALL things American,  including all of the elements of the constitution.  This is not something I read or was told but something I have seen and heard.  Illegal war or not these men will do everything in their power to continue to bomb and destroy soft targets full of innocent people.  This is not a conspiracy but the cold, hard truth. I wish you could spend just one hour in my shoes.  I would take you to a place I know of where the Taliban were conceived and even if they knew your belief system, your stance, your empathy they would still gut you like fish just to hear you scream.  They have no mercy and would kill just to enjoy the moment without mercy.  If there is anything worth fightingfor  it is this, but it is obvious you disagree.

You are an articulate, well-read and knowledgeable individual but you have spent the last dozen posts treating whatever expertise you feel that I have in a condescending fashion.  You have spent considerable effort to try and make me or quite possibly others within these forums believe that everything that I have seen firsthand in this country for the last 8 years doesnt exist.  That this is all part of one big right wing, Cheneyesque, secret society conspiracy.  I am not a killer but I have been a loyal soldier, father, husband, uncle, little league coach, volunteer firefighter, paramedic, environmentalist and amateur handyman.  

Obviously this has just been one big experiment in debunking and refuting everything that I have written and I understand to you, it is what it is. I was obviously misguided in thinking that any minor contribution would be taken with any degree of merit.  Instead I am sure you ardently believe that I am in some control room spinning these transaction for some future illegal war in some country of completely innocent babies and grandmothers while winning hearts and minds at home.  If you think the Tillmans make you feel proud to be an American I can introduce you to dozens of servicemen, some of who have contracted and some of whom haven't that deserve the same respect and have not taken part in any of the cookie cutter attributives that you purport to have occurred while they were at the helm.

I have been on the inside and although its not worth much to anyone here, I know that you can find just as many psychos and nutcases in any Home Depot, Chucky Cheeses and UPS shipping facility as you think exist in the CIA.  You have, after all, done a great job in dehumanizing those who work for or contract with the agency but leave the rest of the world unscathed.  It seems like you have met each one of us, read our dossiers and spent enough time with our families to determine that all we value is senseless killing and greed.  If this is true then there is little I can do to appeal to you as to the nature of things they way I see them, live and in person.  I have never lifted a finger to anyone that wasnt shooting or mortaring me, in possession of suicide vests and IED materials or physically positioning themselves behind innocent human shields often while shouting slogans of hate.  I appreciate your time and thank you for the opportunity to hear your viewpoints.

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #118 on: September 12, 2009, 10:13:11 pm »
Ok well I guess all this diatribe back and forth did little to educate each other on diametric viewpoints but simply embedded us further in our entrenched beliefs of what we already have come to see as truths beyond all reproach.  

In closing I will say this, what you accuse me of you perpetrate yourself.  Your playbook is well stocked with keywords that typecast me and my associates as baby killers, barbarians at war against the weak, the innocent and the unarmed.  Nothing and I mean NOTHING could be further from the truth but through repetitive wild generalizations you attempt to make me look guilty even though I can wake up, look at myself in the mirror each morning and know beyond all doubt that none of this EVER occurred on my watch or those that I know, work with or have even met while in-country.  I do not abdicate violence or genocide.  Our enemies in Afghanistan have declared themselves as such and I have seen the hatred the rage in their eyes for ALL things American,  including all of the elements of the constitution.  This is not something I read or was told but something I have seen and heard.  Illegal war or not these men will do everything in their power to continue to bomb and destroy soft targets full of innocent people.  This is not a conspiracy but the cold, hard truth. I wish you could spend just one hour in my shoes.  I would take you to a place I know of where the Taliban were conceived and even if they knew your belief system, your stance, your empathy they would still gut you like fish just to hear you scream.  They have no mercy and would kill just to enjoy the moment without mercy.  If there is anything worth fightingfor  it is this, but it is obvious you disagree.

You are an articulate, well-read and knowledgeable individual but you have spent the last dozen posts treating whatever expertise you feel that I have in a condescending fashion.  You have spent considerable effort to try and make me or quite possibly others within these forums believe that everything that I have seen firsthand in this country for the last 8 years doesnt exist.  That this is all part of one big right wing, Cheneyesque, secret society conspiracy.  I am not a killer but I have been a loyal soldier, father, husband, uncle, little league coach, volunteer firefighter, paramedic, environmentalist and amateur handyman.  

Obviously this has just been one big experiment in debunking and refuting everything that I have written and I understand to you, it is what it is. I was obviously misguided in thinking that any minor contribution would be taken with any degree of merit.  Instead I am sure you ardently believe that I am in some control room spinning these transaction for some future illegal war in some country of completely innocent babies and grandmothers while winning hearts and minds at home.  If you think the Tillmans make you feel proud to be an American I can introduce you to dozens of servicemen, some of who have contracted and some of whom haven't that deserve the same respect and have not taken part in any of the cookie cutter attributives that you purport to have occurred while they were at the helm.

I have been on the inside and although its not worth much to anyone here, I know that you can find just as many psychos and nutcases in any Home Depot, Chucky Cheeses and UPS shipping facility as you think exist in the CIA.  You have, after all, done a great job in dehumanizing those who work for or contract with the agency but leave the rest of the world unscathed.  It seems like you have met each one of us, read our dossiers and spent enough time with our families to determine that all we value is senseless killing and greed.  If this is true then there is little I can do to appeal to you as to the nature of things they way I see them, live and in person.  I have never lifted a finger to anyone that wasnt shooting or mortaring me, in possession of suicide vests and IED materials or physically positioning themselves behind innocent human shields often while shouting slogans of hate.  I appreciate your time and thank you for the opportunity to hear your viewpoints.


Yes the division in America is strong and no doubt I may have assisted in driving a wedge between the American people including the soldiers who take an oath to protect the constitution and absolute genocidal and psychopathic criminals. This will always be the case and the sooner these grand chessmasters like kissinger and brzezinski who play with Dick Cheney's nuts like they were miniature punching bags the better. The sooner the queen bitches and their absolute slaves like bush, wolfowitz, rumsfeld, clinton, obama, greenspan, gates, and even prince (that is right, eric prince is a slave to the queen bitch. not at the level of the others, kind of like her little play toy. he cannot wait to bow to her and grovel for peanuts "preat lizzie, please give me another contract, puleeeeeeeez").

so americans are tired of being used by these inbred scumbags like the rockefellers/rothschilds/beatrix who use the "for hire" mercenaries to carry out their New World Order plans. These mercenaries are expendable to them, like subcontractors. when times get tough they just dump them. but they allow the queen bitches to bypass morality issues for a short time, until they are exposed then people see clearly how psychopathic the elite class is.

By the way, you really need to review the manual again you are slipping big time...

--------------------------------

CIA Textbook on Psychological Operations In Guerrilla Warfare
http://www.tscm.com/CIA_PsyOps_Handbook.html
[Can anyone verify this? Looks like some important information for the well being of a free country]


PREFACE

Guerrilla warfare is essentially a political war. Therefore, its area of
operations exceeds the territorial limits of conventional warfare, to penetrate
the political entity itself: the "political animal" that Aristotle defined.

In effect, the human being should be considered the priority objective in a
political war. And conceived as the military target of guerrilla war, the human
being has his most critical point in his mind. Once his mind has been reached,
the "political animal" has been defeated, without necessarily receiving
bullets.

Guerrilla warfare is born and grows in the political environment; in the
constant combat to dominate that area of political mentality that is inherent
to all human beings and which collectively constitutes the "environment" in
which guerrilla warfare moves, and which is where precisely its victory or
failure is defined.

This conception of guerrilla warfare as political war turns Psychological
Operations into the decisive factor of the results. The target, then, is the
minds of the population, all the population: our troops, the enemy troops and
the civilian population.

This book is a manual for the training of guerrillas in psychological
operations, and its application to the concrete case of the Christian and
democratic crusade being waged in Nicaragua by the Freedom Commandos.



INTRODUCTION

1. Generalities

The purpose of this book is to introduce the guerrilla student to the
psychological operations techniques that will be of immediate and practical
value to him in guerrilla warfare. This section is introductory and general;
subsequent sections will cover each point set forth here in more detail.

The nature of the environment of guerrilla warfare does not permit
sophisticated psychological operations, and it becomes necessary for the chiefs
of groups, chiefs of detachments and squadron leaders to have the ability to
carry out, with minimal instructions from the higher levels, psychological
action operations with the contacts that are thoroughly aware of the situation,
i.e. the foundations.

2. Combatant-Propagandist Guerrillas

In order to obtain the maximum results from the psychological operations in
guerrilla warfare, every combatant should be as highly motivated to carry out
propaganda face to face as he is a combatant. This means that the individual
political awareness of the guerrilla of the reason for his struggle will be
as acute as his ability to fight.

Such a political awareness and motivation is obtained through the dynamic of
groups and self-criticism, as a standard method of instruction for the
guerrilla training and operations. Group discussions raise the spirit and
improve the unity of thought of the guerrilla training and operations. Group
discussions raise the spirit and improve the unity of thought of the guerrilla
squads and exercise social pressure on the weak members to carry out a better
role in future training or in combative action. Self-criticism is in terms of
one's contribution or defects in his contribution to the cause, to the
movement, the struggle, etc.; and gives a positive individual commitment to the
mission of the group.

The desired result is a guerrilla who can persuasively justify his actions when
he comes into contact with any member of the People of Nicaragua, and
especially with himself and his fellow guerrillas in dealing with the
vicissitudes of guerrilla warfare. This means that every guerrilla will be
persuasive in his face-to-face communication - propagandist-combatant - ins his
contact with the people; he should be able to give 5 or 10 logical reasons why,
for example, a peasant should give him cloth, needle and thread to mend his
clothes. When the guerrilla behaves in this manner, enemy propaganda will never
succeed in making him an enemy in the eyes of the people. It also means that
hunger, cold, fatigue and insecurity will have a meaning, psychologically, in
the cause of the struggle due to his constant orientation.

3. Armed Propaganda

Armed propaganda includes every act carried out, and the good impression that
this armed force causes will result in positive attitudes in the population
toward that force; ad it does not include forced indoctrination. Armed
propaganda improves the behavior of the population toward them, and it is not
achieved by force.

This means that a guerrilla armed unit in a rural town will not give the
impression that arms are their strength over the peasants, but rather that they
are the strength of the peasants against the Sandinista government of
repression. This is achieved through a close identification with the people,
as follows: hanging up weapons and working together with them on their crops,
in construction, in the harvesting of grains, in fishing, etc.; explanations to
young men about basic weapons, e.g. giving them an unloaded weapon and
letting them touch it, see it, etc.; describing in a rudimentary manner its
operation; describing with simple slogans how weapons will serve the people to
win their freedom; demanding the requests by the people for hospitals and
education, reducing taxes, etc.

All these acts have as their goal the creation of an identification of the
people with the weapons and the guerrillas who carry them, so that the
population feels that the weapons are, indirectly, their weapon to protect them
and help them in the struggle against a regime of oppression. Implicit terror
always accompanies weapons, since the people are internally "aware" that they
can be used against them, but as long as explicit coercion is avoided, positive
attitudes can be achieved with respect to the presence of armed guerrillas
within the population.

4. Armed Propaganda Teams

Armed Propaganda Teams (EPA) are formed through a careful selection of
persuasive and highly motivated guerrillas who move about within the
population, encouraging the people to support the guerrillas and put up
resistance against the enemy. It combines a high degree of political
awareness and the "armed" propaganda ability of the guerrillas toward a
planned, programmed, and controlled effort.

The careful selection of the staff, based on their persuasiveness in informal
discussions and their ability in combat, is more important than their degree
of education or the training program. The tactics of the Armed Propaganda Teams
are carried out covertly, and should be parallel to the tactical effort in
guerrilla warfare. The knowledge of the psychology of the population is primary
for the Armed Propaganda Teams, but much more intelligence data will be
obtained from an EPA program in the area of operations.

5. Development and Control of the "Front" Organizations

The development and control of "front" (or facade) organizations is carried out
through subjective internal control at group meetings of "inside cadres,"
and the calculations of the time for the fusion of these combined efforts to be
applied to the  masses.

Established citizens-doctors, lawyers, businessmen, teachers, etc.-will be
recruited initially as "Social Crusaders" in typically "innocuous" movements in
the area of operations. When their "involvement" with the clandestine
organization is  revealed  to them, this supplies the psychological pressure to
use them as "inside cadres" in groups to which they already belong or of which
they can be members.

Then they will receive instruction in techniques of persuasion over control
of target groups to support our democratic revolution, through a gradual and
skillful process. A cell control system isolates individuals from one another,
and at the appropriate moment, their influence is used for the fusion of
groups in a united national front.

6. Control of Meetings and Mass Assemblies

The control of mass meetings in support of guerrilla warfare is carried out
internally through a covert commando element, bodyguards, messengers, shock
forces (initiators of incidents), placard carriers (also used for making
signals), shouters of slogans, everything under the control of the outside
commando element.

When the cadres are placed or recruited in organizations such as labor
unions, youth groups agrarian organizations or professional associations, they
will begin to manipulate the objectives of the groups. The psychological
apparatus of our movement through inside cadres prepares a mental attitude
which at the crucial moment can be turned into a fury of justified violence.

Through a small group of guerrillas infiltrated within the masses this can be
carried out; they will have the mission of agitating by giving the impression
that there are many of them and that they have a large popular backing. Using
the tactics of a force of 200-300 agitators, a demonstration can be created
in which 10,000-20,000 persons take part.

7. Support of Contacts with Their Roots in Reality

The support of local contacts who are familiar with the deep reality is
achieved through the exploitation of the social and political weaknesses of the
target society, with propagandist-combatant guerrillas, armed propaganda, armed
propaganda  teams,  cover organizations and mass meetings.

The combatant-propagandist guerrilla is the result of a continuous program of
indoctrination and motivation. They will have the mission of showing the
people how great and fair our movement is in the eyes of all Nicaraguans and the
world. Identifying themselves with our people, they will increase the
sympathy towards our movement, which will result in greater support of the
population for the freedom commandos, taking away support for the regime in
power.

Armed propaganda will extend this identification process of the people with the
Christian guerrillas, providing converging points against the Sandinista
regime.

The Armed Propaganda Teams provide a several-stage program of persuasive
planning in guerrilla warfare in all areas of the country. Also, these teams
are the "eyes and ears" of our movement.

The development and control of the cover organizations in guerrilla warfare
will give our movement the ability to create a "whiplash" effect within the
population when the order for fusion is given. When the infiltration and
internal subjective control have been developed in a manner parallel to other
guerrilla activities, a comandante of ours will literally be able to shake up
the Sandinista structure, and replace it.

The mass assemblies and meetings are the culmination of a wide base support
among the population, and it comes about in the later phases of the operation.
This is the moment in which the overthrow can be achieved and our revolution
can become an open one, requiring the close collaboration of the entire
population of the country, and of contacts with their roots in reality.

The tactical effort in guerrilla warfare is directed at the weaknesses of the
enemy and at destroying their military resistance capacity, and should be
parallel to a psychological effort to weaken and destroy their sociopolitical
capacity at the same time. In guerrilla warfare, more than in any other type
of military effort, the psychological activities should be simultaneous with
the military ones, in order to achieve the objectives desired.

COMBATANT-PROPAGANDIST GUERRILLA

1. Generalities

The objective of this section is to familiarize the guerrilla with the
techniques of psychological operations, which maximizes the
social-psychological effect of a guerrilla movement, converting the guerrilla
into a propagandist, in addition to being a combatant. The nature of the
environment in guerrilla warfare does not permit sophisticated facilities for
psychological operations, so that use should be made of the effective
face-to-face persuasion of each guerrilla.

2. Political Awareness

The individual political awareness of the guerrilla, the reason for his
struggle, will be as important as his ability in combat. This political
awareness and motivation will be achieved:

* By improving the combat potential of the guerrilla by improving his
motivation for fighting.

* By the guerrilla recognizing himself as a vital tie between the democratic
guerrillas and the people, whose support is essential for the subsistence of
both.

* By fostering the support of the population for the national insurgence
through the support for the guerrillas of the locale, which provides a
psychological basis in the population for politics after the victory has been
achieved.

* By developing trust in the guerrillas and in the population, for the
reconstruction of a local and national government.

* By promoting the value of participation by the guerrillas and the people in
the civic affairs of the insurrection and in the national programs.

* By developing in each guerrilla the ability of persuasion face-to-face, at
the local level, to win the support of the population, which is essential for
success in guerrilla warfare.

3. Group Dynamics

This political awareness-building and motivation are attained by the use of
group dynamics at the level of small units. The group discussion method and
self-criticism are a general guerrilla training and operations technique.

Group discussions raise the spirit and increase the unity of thought in small
guerrilla groups and exercise social pressure on the weakest members to better
carry out their mission in training and future combat actions. These group
discussions will give special emphasis to:

* Creating a favorable opinion of our movement. Through local and national
history, make it clear that the Sandinista regime is "foreignizing,"
"repressive" and "imperialistic," and that even though there are some
Nicaraguans within the government, point out that they are "puppets" of the
power of the Soviets and Cubans, i.e. of foreign power.

* Always a local focus. Matters of an international nature will be explained
only in support of local events in the guerrilla warfare.

* The unification of the nation is our goal. This means that the defeat of
the Sandinista armed forces is our priority. Our insurrection movement is a
pluralistic political platform from which we are determined to win freedom,
equality, a better economy with work facilities, a higher standard of living,
a true democracy for all Nicaraguans without exception.

* Providing to each guerrilla clear understanding about the struggle for
national sovereignty against Soviet-Cuban imperialism. Discussion guides will
lead the guerrillas so that they will see the injustices of the Sandinista
system.

* Showing each guerrilla the need for good behavior to win the support of the
population. Discussion guides should convince the guerrillas that the attitude
and opinion of the population play a decisive role, because victory is
impossible without popular support.

* Self-criticism will be in constructive terms that will contribute to the
mission of the movement, and which will provide the guerrillas with the
conviction that they have a constant and positive individual responsibility in
the mission of the group. The method of instruction will be:

a) division of the guerrilla force into squads for group discussions, including
command and support elements, whenever the tactical situation permits it.
The makeup of the small units should be maintained when these groups are
designated.

b) Assignment of a political cadre in the guerrilla force to each group to
guide the discussion. The squad leader should help the cadre to foster study
and the expression of thoughts. If there are not enough political cadres for
each squad or post, leaders should guide the discussions, and the available
cadres visit alternate groups.

c) It is appropriate for the cadre (or the leader) to guide the discussion of a
group to cover a number of points and to reach a correct conclusion. The
guerrillas should feel that it was their free and own decision. The cadre
should serve as a private teacher. The cadre or leader will not act as a
lecturer, but will help the members of the group to study and express their own
opinions.

d) The political cadre will at the end of every discussion make a summary of
the principal points, leading them to the correct conclusions. Any serious
difference with the objectives of the movement should be noted by the cadre and
reported to the commandant of the force. If necessary, a combined group
meeting will be held and the team of political cadres will explain and rectify
the misunderstanding.

e) Democratic conduct by the political cadres: living, eating and working
with the guerrillas, and if possible, fighting at their side, sharing their
living conditions. All of this will foster understanding and the spirit of
cooperation that will help in the discussion and exchange of ideas.

f) Carry out group discussions in towns, and areas of operations whenever
possible with the civilian population, and not limit them to camps or bases.
This is done to emphasize the revolutionary nature of the struggle and to
demonstrate that the guerrillas identified with the objectives of the people
move about within the population. The guerrilla projects himself toward the
people, as the political cadre does toward the guerrilla, and they should live,
eat and work together to realize a unity of revolutionary thought.

The principles for guerrilla and political-cadre group discussions are:

* Organize discussion groups at the post or squad level. A cadre cannot be sure
of the comprehension and acceptance of the concepts and conclusions by
guerrillas in large groups. In a group of the size of a squad of 10 men, the
judgment and  control  of the situation is greater. In this way, all students
will participate in an exchange among them; the political leader, the group
leader, and also the political cadre. Special attention will be given to the
individual ability to discuss  the  objectives of the insurrection struggle.
Whenever a guerrilla expresses his opinion, he will be interested in listening
to the opinions of others, leading as a result to the unity of thought.

* Combine the different points of view and reach an opinion or common
conclusion. This is the most difficult task of a political guerrilla cadre.
After the group discussions of the democratic objectives of the movement, the
chief of the team of political cadres of the guerrilla force should combine
the conclusions of individual groups in a general summary. At a meeting with
all the discussion groups, the cadre shall provide the principal points, and
the guerrillas will have the opportunity to clarify or modify their points of
view. To carry this out, the conclusions will be summarized in the form of
slogans, wherever possible.

* Face with honesty the national and local problems of our struggle. The
political cadres should always be prepared to discuss solutions to the problems
observed by the guerrillas. During the discussions, the guerrillas should be
guided by the following three principles:

* Freedom of thought.

* Freedom of expression.

* Concentration of thoughts on the objectives of the democratic struggle.

The result desired is a guerrilla who in a persuasive manner can justify all of
his acts whenever he is in contact with any member of the town/people, and
especially with himself and with his guerrilla companions by facing the
vicissitudes of guerrilla warfare.

This means that every guerrilla will come to have effective face-to-face
persuasion as a combatant-propagandist in his contact with the people, to the
point of giving 5-10 logical reasons why, e.g. a peasant should give him a
piece of cloth, or a needle and thread to mend his clothes. When behaves in
this manner, no type of propaganda of the enemy will be able to make a
"terrorist" of him in the eyes of the people.

In addition, hunger, cold, fatigue and insecurity in the existence of the
guerrilla acquire meaning in the cause of the struggle due to the constant
psychological orientation.

4. Camp Procedures

Encamping the guerrilla units gives greater motivation, in addition to reducing
distractions, and increases the spirit of cooperation of small units, relating
the physical environment to the psychological one. The squad chief shall
establish the regular camping procedure. Once they have divested themselves of
their packs, the chief will choose the appropriate ground for camping. He
should select land that predominates over the zone with two or three escape
routes. He will choose among his men and give them responsibilities such as:

* Clean the camp area.

* Provide adequate drainage in case of rain. Also build some trenches or
holes for marksmen in case of emergency. In addition, he will build a stove,
which will be done by making some small trenches and placing three rocks in
place; in case the stove is built on a pedestal, it will be filled with clay
and rocks.

* Build a wind breaking wall, which will be covered on the sides and on the
top with branches and leaves of the same vegetation of the zones. This will
serve for camouflaging and protecting it from aerial visibility or from enemy
patrols around.

* Construct a latrine and a hole where waste and garbage will be buried,
which should be covered over at the time of abandoning the camp.

* Once the camp has been set up, it is recommended that a watchman be
positioned in the places of access at a prudent distance, where the shout of
alarm can be heard. In the same moment the password will be established, which
should be changed  every  24 hours. The commander should establish ahead of
time an alternate meeting point, in case of having to abandon the camp in a
hurried manner, and they will be able to meet in the other already established
point, and they should warn the  patrol that  if at a particular time they
cannot meet at the established point, the should have a third meeting point.

These procedures contribute to the motivation of the guerrilla and improve
the spirit of cooperation in the unit. The danger, sense of insecurity, anxiety
and daily concern in the life of a guerrilla require tangible evidence of
belonging in an order for him to keep up his spirit and morale.

In addition to the good physical conditions in which the guerrilla should
find himself, good psychological conditions are necessary, for which group
discussions and becoming a self-critic are recommended, which will greatly
benefit the spirit and morale of the same.

Having broken camp with the effort and cooperation of everyone strengthens
the spirit of the group. The guerrilla will be inclined then towards the unity
of thought in democratic objectives.

5. Interaction with the People

In order to ensure popular support, essential for the good development of
guerrilla warfare, the leaders should induce a positive interaction between the
civilians and the guerrillas, through the principle of "live, eat , and work
with the people," and maintain control of their activities. In group
discussions, the leaders and political cadres should give emphasis to
positively identifying themselves with the people.

It is not recommendable to speak of military tactical plans in discussions with
 civilians. The Communist foe should be pointed out as the number one enemy of
the people, and as a secondary threat against our guerrilla forces.

Whenever there is a chance, groups of members should be chosen who have a
high political awareness and high disciplinary conduct in the work to be carried
out, in order to be sent to the populous areas in order to direct the armed
propaganda, where they should persuade the people through dialogue in
face-to-face confrontations, where these principles should be followed:

* Respect for human rights and others' property.

* Helping the people in community work.

* Protecting the people from Communist aggressions.

* Teaching the people environmental hygiene, to read, etc., in order to win
their trust, which will lead to a better democratic ideological preparation.

This attitude will foster the sympathy of the peasants for our movement, and
they will immediately become one of us, through logistical support, coverage
and intelligence information on the enemy or participation in combat. The
guerrillas should be persuasive through the word and not dictatorial with
weapons. If they behave in this way, the people will feel respected, will be
more inclined to accept our message and will consolidate into popular support.

In any place in which tactical guerrilla operations are carried out in populous
areas, the squad should undertake psychological actions parallel to these, and
should proceed, accompany and consolidate the common objective and explain
to all the people about our struggle, explaining that our presence is to give
peace, liberty and democracy to all Nicaraguans without exception, and
explaining that out struggle is not against the nationals but rather against
Russian imperialism. This will serve to ensure greater Psychological
achievements which will increase the operations of the future.

6. Conclusions

The nature of the environment in guerrilla warfare does not permit
sophisticated facilities for psychological operations, and the face-to-face
persuasion of the guerrilla combatant-propagandists with the people is an
effective and available tool which we should use as much as possible during
the process of the struggle.

ARMED PROPAGANDA

1. Generalities

Frequently a misunderstanding exists on "armed propaganda," that this tactic is
a compulsion of the people with arms. In reality, it does not include
compulsion, but the guerrilla should know well the principles and methods of
this tactic. The objective of this section is to give the guerrilla student
an understanding of the armed propaganda that should be used, and that will be
able to be applied in guerrilla warfare.

2. Close Identification with the People

Armed propaganda includes all acts carried out by an armed force, whose results
improve the attitude of the people toward this force, and it does not
include forced indoctrination. This is carried out by a close identification
with the people on  any  occasion. For example:

* Putting aside weapons and working side by side with the peasants in the
countryside: building, fishing, repairing roofs, transporting water, etc.

* When working with the people, the guerrillas can use slogans such as "many
hands doing small things, but doing them together."

* Participating in the tasks of the people, they can establish a strong tie
between them and the guerrillas and at the same time a popular support for our
movement is generated.

During the patrols and other operations around or in the midst of villages,
each guerrilla should be respectful and courteous with the people. In addition
he should move with care and always be well prepared to fight, if necessary. But
he should  not  always see all the people as enemies, with suspicions or
hostility. Even in war, it is possible to smile, laugh or greet people. Truly,
the cause of our revolutionary base, the reason why we are struggling, is our
people. We must be respectful  to  them on all occasions that present
themselves.

In places and situations wherever possible, e.g. when they are resting during
the march, the guerrillas can explain the operation of weapons to the youths
and young men. They can show them an unloaded rifle so that they will learn to
load it and unload it; their use, and aiming at imaginary targets they are
potential recruits for our forces.

The guerrillas should always be prepared with simple slogans in order to
explain to the people, whether in an intentional form or by chance, the reason
for the weapons.

"The weapons will be for winning freedom; the are for you."

"With weapons we can impose demands such as hospitals, schools, better roads,
and social services for the people, for you."

"Our weapons are, in truth, the weapons of the people, yours."

"With weapons we can change the Sandino-Communist regime and return to the
people a true democracy so that we will all have economic opportunities."

All of this should be designed to create an identification of the people with
the weapons and the guerrillas who carry them. Finally, we should make the
people feel that we are thinking of them and that the weapons are the people's,
in order to  help  them and protect them from a Communist, totalitarian,
imperialist regime, indifferent to the needs of the population.

3. Implicit and Explicit Terror

A guerrilla armed force always involves implicit terror because the population,
without saying it aloud, feels terror that the weapons may be used against
them. However, if the terror does not become explicit, positive results can be
expected.

In a revolution, the individual lives under a constant threat of physical
damage. If the government police cannot put an end to the guerrilla activities,
the population will lose confidence in the government, which has the inherent
mission of guaranteeing the safety of citizens. However, the guerrillas
should be careful not to become an explicit terror, because this would result in
a loss of popular support.

In the words of a leader of the Huk guerrilla movement of the Philippine
Islands: "The population is always impressed by weapons, not by the terror that
they cause, but rather by a sensation of strength/force. We must appear before
the people, giving them the message of the struggle." This is, then, in a few
words, the essence of armed propaganda.

An armed guerrilla force can occupy an entire town or small city that is
neutral or relatively passive in the conflict. In order to conduct the armed
propaganda in an effective manner, the following should be carried out
simultaneously:

* Destroy the military or police installations and remove the survivors to a
"public place."

* Cut all the outside lines of communications: cables, radio, messengers.

* Set up ambushes in order to delay the reinforcements in all the possible
entry routes.

* Kidnap all officials or agents of the Sandinista government and replace
them in "public Places" with military or civilian persons of trust to our
movement; in addition, carry out the following:

* Establish a public tribunal that depends on the guerrillas, and cover the
town or city in order to gather the population for this event.

* Shame, ridicule and humiliate the "personal symbols" of the government of
repression in the presence of the people and foster popular participation
through guerrillas within the multitude, shouting slogans and jeers.

* Reduce the influence of individuals in tune with the regime, pointing out
their weaknesses and taking them out of the town, without damaging them
publicly.

* Mix the guerrillas within the population and show very good conduct by all
members of the column, practicing the following:

Any article taken will be paid for with cash.

The hospitality offered by the people will be accepted and this opportunity
will be exploited in order to carry out face-to-face persuasion about the
struggle.

Courtesy visits should be made to the prominent persons and those with prestige
in the place, such as doctors, priests, teachers, etc.

The guerrillas should instruct the population that with the end of the
operative, and when the Sandinista repressive forces interrogate them, they may
reveal EVERYTHING about the military operation carried out. For example, the
type of weapons they use, ho many men arrived, from what direction they came
and in what direction they left, in short,  EVERYTHING.

In addition, indicate to the population that at meetings or in private
discussion they can give the names of the Sandinista informants, who will be
removed together with the other officials of the government of repression.

When a meeting is held, conclude it with a speech by one of the leaders of
guerrilla political cadres (the most dynamic), which includes explicit
references to:

The fact that the "enemies of the people" -- the officials or Sandinista agents
-- must not be mistreated in spite of their criminal acts, although the
guerrilla force may have suffered casualties, and that this is done due to the
generosity of the Christian guerrillas.

Give a declaration of gratitude for the "hospitality" of the population, as
well as let them know that the risks that they will run when the Sandinistas
return are greatly appreciated.

The fact that the Sandinista regime, although it exploits the people with
taxes, control of money, grains and all aspects of public life through
associations, which they are forced to become part of, will not be able to
resist the attacks of our guerrilla forces.

Make the promise to the people that you will return to ensure that the
"leeches" of the Sandinista regime of repression will not be able to hinder our
guerrillas from integrating with the population.

A statement repeated to the population to the effect that they can reveal
everything about this visit of our commandos, because we are not afraid of
anything or anyone, neither the Soviets nor the Cubans. Emphasize that we are
Nicaraguans, that we are fighting for the freedom of Nicaragua and to
establish a very Nicaraguan government.

4. Guerrilla Weapons Are The Strength of the People over an Illegal Government

The armed propaganda in populated areas does not give the impression that
weapons are the power of the guerrillas over the people, but rather that the
weapons are the strength of the people against a regime of repression. Whenever
it is necessary  to  use armed force in an occupation or visit to a town or
village, guerrillas should emphasize making sure that they:

* Explain to the population that in the first place this is being done to
protect them, the people, and not themselves.

* Admit frankly and publicly that this is an "act of the democratic guerrilla
movement," with appropriate explanations.

* That this action, although it is not desirable, is necessary because the
final objective of the insurrection is a free and democratic society, where
acts of force are not necessary.

* The force of weapons is a necessity caused by the oppressive system, and will
cease to exist when the "forces of justice" of our movement assume control.

If, for example, it should be necessary for one of the advanced posts to have
to fire on a citizen who was trying to leave the town or city in which the
guerrillas are carrying out armed propaganda or political proselytism, the
following is recommended:

* Explain that if that citizen had managed to escape, he would have alerted the
enemy that is near the town or city, and they could carry out acts of reprisal
such as rapes, pillage, destruction, captures, etc., it this way terrorizing
the inhabitants of the place for having given attention and hospitalities to
the guerrillas of the town.

* If a guerrilla fires at an individual, make the town see that he was an enemy
of the people, and that they shot him because the guerrilla recognized as their
first duty the protection of citizens.

* The command tried to detain the informant without firing because he, like all
Christian guerrillas, espouses nonviolence. Firing at the Sandinista informant,
although it is against his own will, was necessary to prevent the repression of
the Sandinista government against innocent people.

* Make the population see that it was the repressive system of the regime
that was the cause of this situation, what really killed the informer, and that
the weapon fired was one recovered in combat against the Sandinista regime.

* Make the population see that if the Sandinista regime had ended the
repression, the corruption backed by foreign powers, etc., the freedom
commandos would not have had to brandish arms against brother Nicaraguans,
which goes against our Christian sentiments. If the informant hadn't tried to
escape he would be enjoying life together with the rest of the population,
because not have tried to inform the enemy. This death would have been avoided
if justice and freedom existed in Nicaragua,  which  is exactly the objective
of the democratic guerrilla.

5. Selective Use of Violence for Propagandistic Effects

It is possible to neutralize carefully selected and planned targets, such as
court judges, mesta judges, police and State Security officials, CDS chiefs,
etc. For psychological purposes it is necessary to gather together the
population affected, so that they will be present, take part in the act, and
formulate accusations against the oppressor.

The target or person should be chosen on the basis of:

* The spontaneous hostility that the majority of the population feels toward
the target.

* Use rejection or potential hatred by the majority of the population
affected toward the target, stirring up the population and making them see all
the negative and hostile actions of the individual against the people.

* If the majority of the people give their support or backing to the target
or subject, do not try to change these sentiments through provocation.

* Relative difficulty of controlling the person who will replace the target.

The person who will replace the target should be chosen carefully, based on:

* Degree of violence necessary to carry out the change.

* Degree of violence acceptable to the population affected.

* Degree of predictable reprisal by the enemy on the population affected or
other individuals in the area of the target.

The mission to replace the individual should be followed by:

* Extensive explanation within the population affected of the reason why it was
necessary for the good of the people.

* Explain that Sandinista retaliation is unjust, indiscriminate, and above all,
a justification for the execution of this mission.

* Carefully test the reaction of the people toward the mission, as well as
control this reaction, making sure that the populations reaction is beneficial
towards the Freedom Commandos.

6. Conclusions

Armed propaganda includes all acts executed and the impact achieved by an armed
force, which as a result produces positive attitudes in the population
toward this force, and it does not include forced indoctrination. However, armed
propaganda is  the  most effective available instrument of a guerrilla force.

ARMED PROPAGANDA TEAMS (APTs)

1. Generalities

In contact with the very reality of their roots, in a psychological operation
campaign in guerrilla warfare, the comandantes will be able to obtain maximum
psychological results from an Armed Propaganda program. This section is to
inform the guerrilla student as to what Armed Propaganda Teams are in the
environment of guerrilla warfare.

2. Combination: Political Awareness and Armed Propaganda

The Armed Propaganda Teams combine political awareness-building with armed
propaganda, which will be carried out by carefully selected guerrillas
(preferably with experience in combat), for personal persuasion within the
population.

The selection of the staff is more important than the training, because we
cannot train guerrilla cadres just to show the sensations of ardor and fervor,
which are essential for person-to-person persuasion. More important is the
training of persons who are intellectually agile and developed.

An Armed Propaganda Team includes from 6 to 10 members; this number or a
smaller number is ideal, since there is more camaraderie, solidarity and group
spirit. The  themes to deal with are assimilated more rapidly and the members
react more rapidly  to unforeseen situations.

In addition to the combination as armed propagandist-combatant each member of
the team should be well prepared to carry out permanent person-to-person
communication, face-to-face.

The leader of the group should be the commando who is the most highly motivated
politically and the most effective in face-to-face persuasion. The position,
hierarchy or range will not be decisive for carrying out that function, but
rather who is best qualified for communication with the people.

The source of basic recruitment for guerrilla cadres will be the same social
groups of Nicaraguans to whom the psychological campaign is directed, such as
peasants, students, professionals, housewives, etc. The campesinos (peasants)
should be made to see that they do not have lands; the workers that the State
is putting an end to factories and industries; the doctors, that they are being
replaced by Cuban paramedics, and that as doctors they cannot practice their
profession due to lack of medicines. A requirement for recruiting them will
be their ability to express themselves in public.

The selection of the personnel is more important than the training. The
political awareness-building and the individual capabilities of persuasion will
be shown in the group discussions for motivation of the guerrilla as a
propagandist-combatant chosen as cadres to organize them in teams, that is,
those who have the greatest capacity for this work.

The training of guerrillas for Armed Propaganda Teams emphasizes the method and
not the content. A two-week training period is sufficient if the recruitment is
done in the form indicated. If a mistaken process of recruitment has been
followed, however good the training provided, the individual chosen will not
yield a very good result.

The training should be intensive for 14 days, through team discussions,
alternating the person who leads the discussion among the members of the group.

The subjects to be dealt with will be the same, each day a different theme
being presented, for a varied practice.

The themes should refer to the conditions of the place and the meaning that
they have for the inhabitants of the locality, such as talking of crops,
fertilizers, seeds, irrigation of crops, etc. They can also include the
following topics:

* Sawed wood, carpenters' tools for houses or other buildings.

* Boats, roads, horses, oxen for transportation, fishing, agriculture.

* Problems that they may have in the place with residents, offices of the
regime, imposed visitors, etc.

* Force labor, service in the militia.

* Forced membership in Sandinista groups, such as women's clubs, youth
associations, workers' groups, etc.

* Availability and prices of consumer articles and of basic needs in the
grocery stores and shops of the place.

* Characteristics of education in the public schools.

* Anxiety of the people over the presence of Cuban teachers in the schools
and the intrusion of politics, i.e. using them for political ends and not
educational ones as should be.

* Indignation over the lack of freedom of worship, and persecution, of which
priests are victims; and over the participation of priests such as Escoto and
Cardenal in the Sandinista government, against the explicit orders of his
Holiness, the Pope.

NOTE: Members of the team can develop other themes.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

  • All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63,090
    • Git Ureself Edumacated
Re: Jeremy Scahill Kicked Ass On Bill Maher 8/21/2009
« Reply #119 on: September 12, 2009, 10:14:21 pm »
The target groups for the Armed Propaganda Teams are not the persons with
sophisticated political knowledge, but rather those whose opinion are formed
from what they see and hear. The cadres should use persuasion to carry out
their mission. Some of the persuasive methods that they can use are the
following:

Interior Group/Exterior Group. It is a principle of psychology that we humans
have the tendency to form personal associations from "we" and "the others," or
"we" and "they", "friends" and "enemies," "fellow countrymen" and
"foreigners,""mestizos" and "gringos."

The Armed Propaganda Team can use this principle in its activities, so that
it is obvious that the "exterior" groups ("false" groups) are those of the
Sandinista regime, and that the "interior" groups ("true" groups) that fight
for the people are the Freedom Commandos.

We should inculcate this in the people in a subtle manner so that these
feelings seem to be born of themselves, spontaneously.

"Against" is much easier that "for." It is a principle of political science
that it is easier to persuade the people to vote against something or someone
than to persuade them to vote in favor of something or someone. Although
currently the regime has not given the Nicaraguan people the opportunity to
vote, it is known that the people will vote in opposition, so that the Armed
Propaganda Teams can use this principle in favor of our insurrectional
struggle. They should ensure that this campaign is directed specifically
against the government or its sympathizers, since the people should have
specific targets for their frustrations.

Primary Groups and Secondary Groups. Another principle of sociology is that
we humans forge or change our opinions from two sources: primarily, through our
association with our family, comrades, or intimate friends; and secondarily,
through distant associations such as acquaintances in churches, clubs or
committees, labor unions or governmental organizations. The Armed Propaganda
Team cadres should join the first groups in order to persuade them to follow
the policies of our movement, because it is from this type of group that the
opinions or changes of opinion come.

Techniques of Persuasion in Talks or Speeches:

Be Simple and Concise. You should avoid the use of difficult words or
expressions and prefer popular words and expressions, i.e. the language of the
people. In dealing with a person you should make use of concise language,
avoiding complicated words. It is important to remember that we use oratory
to make our people understand the reason for our struggle, and not to show off
our knowledge.

Use Lively and Realistic Examples. Avoid abstract concepts, such as are used in
universities in the advanced years, and in place of them, give concrete
examples such as children playing, horses galloping, birds in flight, etc.

Use Gestures to Communicate. Communication, in addition to being verbal, can be
through gestures, such as using our hands expressively, back movements, facial
expressions, focusing of our look and other aspects of "body language,"
projecting the individual personality in the message.

Use the Appropriate Tone of Voice. If, on addressing the people, you talk about
happiness, a happy tone should be used. If you talk of something sad, the tone
of the voice should be one of sadness; on talking of a heroic or brave act, the
voice should be animated, etc.

Above All, Be Natural, Imitation of others should be avoided, since the people,
especially simple people, easily distinguish a fake. The individual personality
should be projected when addressing the population.

3. "Eyes and Ears" Within the Population

The amount of information for intelligence that will be generated by the
deployment of the Armed Propaganda Teams will allow us to cover a large area
with out commandos, who will become the eyes and ears of our movement within
the population:

The combined reports of an Armed Propaganda Team will provide us with exact
details on the enemy activities.

The intelligence information obtained by the Armed Propaganda Teams should be
reported to the chiefs. However, it is necessary to emphasize that the first
mission of the Armed Propaganda Teams is to carry out psychological operations,
not to obtain data for intelligence.

Any intelligence report will be made through the outside contact of the Armed
Propaganda Team, in order not to compromise the population.

The Armed Propaganda cadres are able to do what others in a guerrilla
campaign cannot do: determine personally the development or deterioration of the
popular support and the sympathy or hostility that the people feel toward our
movement.

The Armed Propaganda Team program, in addition to being very effective
psychologically, increases the guerrilla capacity in obtaining and using
information.

In addition, the Armed Propaganda cadre will report to his superior the
reaction of the people to the radio broadcasts, the insurrectional flyers, or
any other means of propaganda of ours.

Expressions or gestures of the eyes, or face, the tone and strength of the
voice, and the use of the appropriate words greatly affect the face-to-face
persuasion of the people.

With the intelligence reports supplied by the Armed Propaganda Teams, the
comandantes will be able to have exact knowledge of the popular support, which
they will make use of in their operations.

4. Psychological Tactics, Maximum Flexibility

Psychological tactics will have the greatest flexibility within a general plan,
permitting a continuous and immediate adjustment of the message, and
ensuring that an impact is caused on the indicated target group at the moment in
which it is the most susceptible.

Tactically, an Armed Propaganda Equipment program should cover the majority and
if possible all of the operational area. The communities in which this
propaganda is carried out should not necessarily form political units with an
official nature. A complete understanding of their structure or organization
is not necessary because the cadres will work by applying socio-political
action and not academic theory.

The target populations of the Armed Propaganda Teams will be chosen for being
part of the operational area, and not for their size or amount of land.

The objective should be the people and not the territorial area.

In this respect, each work team will be able to cover some six towns
approximately, in order to develop popular support for our movement.

The Team should always move in a covert manner within the towns of their area.

They should vary their route radically, but not their itinerary,. This is so
that the inhabitants who are cooperating will be dependent on their itinerary,
i.e., the hour in which they can frequently contact them to give them the
information.

The danger of betrayal or an ambush can be neutralized by varying the itinerary
a little, using different routes, as well as arriving or leaving without
previous warning.

Whenever the surprise factor is used, vigilance should be kept in order to
detect the possible presence of hostile elements.

No more than three consecutive days should be spent in a town.

The limit of three days has obvious tactical advantages, but it also has a
psychological effect on the people, on seeing the team as a source of current
and up-to-date information. Also, it can overexpose the target audience and
cause a negative reaction.

Basic tactical precautions should be taken. This is necessary for greater
effectiveness, as was indicated in dealing with the subject of "Armed
Propaganda," and when it is carried out discreetly, it increases the respect of
the people for the team and increases their credibility.

The basic procedures are: covert elements that carry out vigilance before and
after the departure and in intervals. There should be two at least, and they
should meet at a predetermined point upon a signal, or in view of any hostile
action.

The team's goal is to motivate the entire population of a place, but to
constantly remain aware that defined target groups exist within this general
configuration of the public.

Although meetings may be held in the population, the cadres should recognize
and keep in contact with the target groups, mixing with them before, during and
after the meeting. The method for holding this type of meeting was included in
the topic "Armed Propaganda," and will be covered in greater detail under
the title "Control of Mass Meetings and Demonstrations."

The basic focus of the Armed Propaganda cadres should be on the residents of
the town, where their knowledge as formers of opinion can be applied.

In the first visits of identification with the inhabitants, the guerrilla
cadres will be courteous and humble. They can work in the fields or in any
other form in which their abilities can contribute to the improvement of the
living style of the inhabitants of the place, winning their trust and talking
with them; helping to repair the fences of their cattle; the cleaning of the
same, collaborating in the vaccination of their animals; teaching them to read,
i.e., closely together in all the tasks of the peasant or the community.

In his free time, our guerrilla should mix in with the community groups and
participate with them in pastoral activities, parties, birthdays, and even in
wakes or burials of the members of said community; he will try to converse with
both adults  and  adolescents. |He will try to penetrate to the heart of the
family, in order to win the acceptance and trust of all of the residents of
that sector.

The Armed Propaganda Team cadres will give ideological training, mixing these
instructions with folklore songs, and at the same time he will tell stories
that have some attraction, making an effort to make them refer to heroic acts
of our ancestors. He will also try to tell stories of heroism of our
combatants in the present struggle so that listeners try to imitate them. It is
important to let them know that there are other countries in the world where
freedom and democracy cause those governing to be concerned over the
well-being of their people, so that the children have medical care and free
education; where also they are concerned that everyone have work and food, and
all freedoms such as those of religion, association and expression; where the
greatest objective of the government is to keep its people happy.

The cadres should not make mention of their political ideology during the first
phase of identification with the people, and they should orient their talks to
things that are pleasing to the peasants or the listeners, trying to be as
simple as possible in order to be understood.

The tactical objectives for identification with the people are the following:

To establish tight relations through identification with the people, through
their very customs.

To determine the basic needs and desires of the different target groups.

To discover the weaknesses of the governmental control.

Little by little, to sow the seed of democratic revolution, in order to
change the vices of the regime towards a new order of justice and collective
well-being.

In the motivation of the target groups, by the Armed Propaganda Teams, the
cadre should apply themes of "true" groups and themes of "false" groups. The
true group will correspond to the target group and the false one to the
Sandinista regime.

For the economic interest groups, such as small businessmen and farmers, it
should be emphasized that their potential progress is "limited" by the
Sandinista government, that resources are scarcer and scarcer, the
earnings/profits minimal, taxes high, etc. This can be applied to
entrepreneurs of transportation and others.

For the elements ambitious for power and social positions, it will be
emphasized that they will never be able to belong to the governmental social
class, since they are hermetic in their circle of command. Example, the nine
Sandinista leaders do  not  allow other persons to participate in the
government, and they hinder the development of the economic and social
potential of those like him, who have desires of overcoming this, which is
unjust and arbitrary.

Social and intellectual criticisms. They should be directed at the
professionals, professors, teachers, priests, missionaries, students and
others. Make them see that their writings, commentaries or conversations are
censored, which does not make  it  possible to correct these problems.

Once the needs and frustrations of the target groups have been determined,
the hostility of the people to the "false" groups will become more direct,
against the current regime and its system of repression. The people will be made
to see that once this system or structure has been eliminated, the cause of
their frustration s would be eliminated and they would be able to fulfill their
desires. It should be shown to the population that supporting the insurrection
is really supporting their own  desires, since the democratic movement is aimed
at the elimination  of these specific problems.

As a general rule, the Armed Propaganda teams should avoid participating in
combat. However, if this is not possible, they should react as a guerrilla unit
with tactics of "hit and run," causing the enemy the greatest amount of
casualties with  aggressive assault fire, recovering enemy weapons  and
withdrawing rapidly.

One exception to the rule to avoid combat will be when in the town they are
challenged by hostile actions, whether by an individual or whether by a number
of men of an enemy team.

The hostility of one or two men can be overcome by eliminating the enemy in a
rapid and effective manner. This is the most common danger.

When the enemy is equal in the number of its forces, there should be an
immediate retreat, and then the enemy should be ambushed or eliminated by means
of sharp-shooters.

In any of the cases, the Armed Propaganda Team cadres should not turn the
town into a battleground. Generally, our guerrilla will be better armed, so that
they will obtain greater respect from the population if they carry out
appropriate maneuvers instead of endangering their lives, or even destroying
their houses in an encounter with the enemy within the town.

5. A Comprehensive Team Program - Mobile Infrastructure

The psychological operations through the Armed Propaganda Teams include the
infiltration of key guerrilla communicators (i.e., Armed Propaganda Team
cadres) into the population of the country, instead of sending messages to them
through outside sources, thus creating our "mobile infrastructure."

A "mobile infrastructure" is a cadre of our Armed Propaganda Team moving about,
i.e., keeping in touch with six or more populations, from which his source
of information will come; and at the same time it will serve so that at the
appropriate time they will become integrated in the complete guerrilla
movement.

In this way, an Armed Propaganda Team program in the operational area builds
for our comandantes in the countryside constant source of data gathering
(infrastructure) in all the area. It is also a means for developing or
increasing popular support, for recruiting new members and for obtaining
provisions.

In addition, an Armed Propaganda Team program allows the expansion of the
guerrilla movement, since they can penetrate areas that are not under the
control of the combat units. In this way, through an exact evaluation of the
combat units they will be able to plan their operations more precisely, since
they will have certain knowledge of the existing conditions.

The comandantes will remember that this type of operation is similar to the
Fifth Column, which was used in the first part of the Second World War, and
which through infiltration and subversion tactics allowed the Germans to
penetrate the target countries before the invasions. They managed to enter
Poland, Belgium, Holland and France in a month, and Norway in a week. The
effectiveness of this tactic has been clearly demonstrated in several wars and
can be used effectively by the Freedom Commandos.

The activities of the Armed Propaganda Teams run some risks, but no more than
any other guerrilla activity. However, the Armed Propaganda Teams are
essential for the success of the struggle.

6. Conclusions

In the same way that the explorers are the "eyes and "ears" of a patrol, or of a
column on the march, the Armed Propaganda Teams are also the source of
information, the "antennas" of our movement, because they find and exploit the
sociopolitical weaknesses in the target society, making possible a successful
operation.

DEVELOPMENT AND CONTROL OF FRONT ORGANIZATIONS

1. Generalities

The development and control of front organizations (or "facade"
organizations)is an essential process in the guerrilla effort to carry out the
insurrection. That is, in truth, an aspect of urban guerrilla warfare, but it
should advance parallel to the campaign in the rural area. This section has as
its objective to give the guerrilla student an understanding of the development
and control of front organizations in guerrilla warfare.

2. Initial Recruitment

The initial recruitment to the movement, if it is involuntary, will be
carried out through several "private" consultations with a cadre (without his
knowing that he is talking to a member of ours). Then, the recruit will be
informed that he or she is already inside the movement, and he will be
exposed to the police of the regime if he or she does not cooperate.

When the guerrillas carry out missions of armed propaganda and a program of
regular visits to the towns by the Armed Propaganda Teams, these contacts will
provide the commandos with the names and places of persons who can be
recruited. The recruitment, which will be voluntary, is done through visits
by guerrilla leaders or political cadres.

After a chain of voluntary recruitment's has been developed, and the
trustworthiness of the recruits has been established by their carrying out
small missions, they will be instructed about increasing/widening the chain by
recruiting in specific target groups, in accordance with the following
procedure:

From among their acquaintances or through observation of the target groups -
political parties, workers' unions, youth groups, agrarian associations, etc. -
finding out the personal habits, preferences and biases, as well as the
weaknesses of the "recruitable" individuals.

Make an approach through an acquaintance, and if possible, develop a
friendship, attracting him through his preferences or weaknesses: it might be
inviting him for lunch in the restaurant of his choice or having a drink in his
favorite cantina or  an  invitation to dinner in the place he prefers.

Recruitment should follow one of the following guidelines:

* If in an informal conversation the target seems susceptible to voluntary
recruitment based on his beliefs and personal values, etc., the political cadre
assigned to carry out the recruitment's will be notified of this. The original
contact will indicate to the cadre assigned, in detail, all he knows of the
prospective recruit, and the style of persuasion to be used, introducing the
two.

* If the target does not seem to be susceptible to voluntary recruitment,
meetings can be arranged which seem casual with the guerrilla leaders or with
the political cadres (unknown by the target until that moment). The meetings
will beheld so  that  "other persons" know that the target is attending them,
whether they see him arrive at a particular house, seated at the table in a
particular bar or even seated on a park bench. The target, then, is faced with
the fact of his participation in  the  insurrectional struggle and it will be
indicated to him also that if he fails to cooperate or to carry out future
orders, he will be subjected to reprisals by the police or soldiers of the
regime.

* The notification of the police, denouncing a target who does not want to join
the guerrillas, can be carried out easily, when it becomes necessary, through a
letter with false statements of citizens who are not implicated in the
movement. Care should be taken that the person who recruited him covertly is
not discovered.

* With the carrying out of clandestine missions for the movement, the
involvement and handing over of every recruit is done gradually on a wider and
wider scale, and confidence increases. This should be a gradual process, in
order to prevent confessions from fearful individuals who have been assigned
very difficult or dangerous missions too early.

Using this recruitment technique, our guerrillas will be able to successfully
infiltrate any key target group in the regime, in order to improve the
internal control of the enemy structure.

3. Established Citizens, Subjective Internal Control

Established citizens, such as doctors, lawyers, businessmen, landholders, minor
state officials, etc., will be recruited to the movement and used for
subjective internal control of groups and associations to which they belong or
may belong.

Once the recruitment/involvement has been brought about, and has progressed
to the point that allows that specific instructions be given to internal cadres
to begin to influence their groups, instructions will be given to them to carry
out the following:

* The process is simple and only requires a basic knowledge of the Socrates
dialectic: that is the knowledge that is inherent to another person or the
established position of a group, some theme, some word or some thought related
to the objective  of  persuasion of the person in charge of our recruitment.

* The cadre then must emphasize this theme, word or thought in the
discussions or meetings of the target group, through a casual commentary, which
improves the focus of other members of the group in relation to this. Specific
examples are:

Economic interest groups are motivated by profit and generally feel that the
system hinders the use of their capability in this effort in some way, taxes,
import-export tariffs, transportation costs, etc. The cadre in charge will
increase this feeling of frustration in later conversations.

Political aspirants, particularly if the are not successful, feel that the
system discriminates against them unfairly, limiting their capabilities,
because the Sandinista regime does not allow elections. The cadres should focus
political  discussions  towards this frustration.

Intellectual social critics (such as professors, teachers, priests,
missionaries, etc.), generally feel that the government ignores their valid
criticism or censors their comments unjustly, especially in a situation of
revolution. This can easily  be  shown by the guerrilla cadre at meetings and
discussions, to bean injustice of the system.

For all the target groups, after they have established frustrations, the
hostility towards the obstacles to their aspirations will gradually become
transferred to the current regime and its system of repression.

The guerrilla cadre moving among the target groups should always maintain a low
profile, so that the development of hostile feelings towards the false
Sandinista regime seems to come spontaneously from the members of the group and
not from suggestions of the cadres. This is internal subjective control.

Antigovernment hostility should be generalized, and not necessarily in our
favor. If a group develops a feeling in our favor, it can be utilized. But the
main objective is to precondition the target groups for the fusion in mass
organizations later in the operation, when other activities have been
successfully undertaken.

4. Organizations of Cells for Security

Internal cadres of our movement should organize into cells of three persons,
only one of them maintaining outside contact.

The cell of three persons is the basic element of the movement, with frequent
meetings to receive orders and pass information to the cell leader. These
meetings are also very important for mutually reinforcing the members of the
cell, as well as their morale. They should exercise criticism of themselves
on the realization or failures in carrying out individual subjective control
missions.

The coordination of the three-member cell provides a security net for
reciprocal communication, each member having contact with only an operational
cell. The members will not reveal at the cell coordination meetings the identity
of their contact in an operational cell; they will reveal only the nature of
the activity in which the cell is involved, e.g., political party work, medical
association work, etc.

There is no hierarchy in cells outside of an element of coordination, who is
the leader, who will have direct but covert contact with our guerrilla
comandante in the zone or operational area. The previous diagram does not
indicate which new operational cell is the limit, but it indicates that for
every three operational cells, we need a coordination cell.

5. Fusion in a "Cover" Organization

The fusion of organizations recognized by the Sandinista government, such as
associations and other groups, through internal subjective control, occurs in
the final stages of the operation, in a tight connection with mass meetings.

When the guerrilla armed action has expanded sufficiently, armed propaganda
missions will be carried out on a large scale: propaganda teams will have
clearly developed open support of the institutions; the enemy system of target
groups will be well infiltrated and preconditioned. At the point at which
mass meetings are held, the internal cadres should begin discussions for the
"fusion" of forces into an organization - this organization will be a "cover"
source of our movement.

Any other target group will be aware that other groups are developing greater
hostility to the government., the police and the traditional legal bases of
authority. The guerrilla cadres in that group - for example, teachers - will
cultivate this awareness-building, making comments such as "So-and-so, who is
a farmer, said that the members of his cooperative believe that the new
economic policy is absurd, poorly planned and unfair to the farmers."

When the awareness-building is increased, in the sense that other groups feel
hostility towards the regime, the group discussions are held openly and our
movement will be able to receive reports that the majority of their operatives
are united in common, greater hostility against the regime. This will be
developed and the order to fuse/join will come about. The fusion into a "cover"
front is carried out thusly:

* Internal cadres of our movement will meet with people such as presidents,
leaders, and others, at organized meetings chaired by the group chief of our
movement. Two or three escorts can assist the guerrilla cadre if it becomes
necessary.

* Publish a joint communiqué on this meeting, announcing the creation of the
"cover" front, including names and signatures of the participants, and names of
the organizations that they represent.

After releasing this communiqué, mass meetings should be initiated, which
should have as a goal the destruction of the Sandinista control.

6. Conclusions

The development and control of the "cover" organizations in a guerrilla war
will give our movement the ability to create the "whiplash" effect within the
population, when the order for fusion is gives. When the infiltration and
internal subjective control have been developed parallel with other guerrilla
activities, a democratic guerrilla commander will literally be able to shake up
the Sandinista structure and replace it.

CONTROL OF MASS CONCENTRATIONS AND MEETINGS

1. Generalities

In the last stages of a guerrilla war, mass concentrations and meetings are a
powerful psychological tool for carrying out the mission. This section has as
its objective giving the guerrilla student training on techniques for
controlling mass concentrations and meetings in guerrilla warfare.

2. Infiltration of Guerrilla Cadres

Infiltration of guerrilla cadres (whether a member of our movement or outside
element) in workers' unions, student groups, peasant organizations, etc.,
preconditioning these groups for behavior within the masses, where they will
have to carry proselytism for the instructional struggle in a clandestine
manner.

* Our psychological war team should prepare in advance a hostile mental
attitude among the target groups so that at the decisive moment they can turn
their furor into violence, demanding their rights that have been trampled upon
by the regime.

* These preconditioning campaigns must be aimed at the political parties,
professional organizations, students, laborers, the masses of the unemployed,
the ethnic minorities and any other sector of society that is vulnerable or
recruitable; this also includes the popular masses and sympathizers of our
movement.

* The basic objective of a preconditioning campaign is to create a negative
"image" of the common enemy, e.g.:

Describe the managers of collective government entities as trying to treat
the staff the way "slave foremen" do.

The police mistreat the people like the Communist "Gestapo" does.

The government officials of National Reconstruction are puppets of
Russian-Cuban imperialism.

Our psychological war cadres will create compulsive obsessions of a temporary
nature in places of public concentrations, constantly hammering away at the
themes pointed out or desired, the same as in group gatherings; in informal
conversations expressing discontent; in addition passing out brochures and
flyers, and writing editorial articles both on the radio and in newspapers,
focused on the intention of preparing the mind of the people of the decisive
moment, which will erupt in general  violence.

In order to facilitate the preconditioning of the masses, we should often use
phrases to make the people see, such as:

The taxes that they pay the government do not benefit the people at all, but
rather are uses as a form of exploitation in order to enrich those governing.

Make it plain to the people that they have become slaves, that they are being
exploited by privileged military and political groups.

* The foreign advisers and their counseling programs are in reality
"interveners" in our homeland, who direct the exploitation of the nation in
accordance with the objectives of the Russian and Cuban imperialists, in order
to turn our people into slaves of the hammer and sickle.

3. Selection of Appropriate Slogans

The leaders of the guerrilla warfare classify their slogans in accordance
with the circumstances with the aim of mobilizing the masses in a wide scale of
activities and at the highest emotional level.

When the mass uprising is being developed, our covert cadres should make
partial demands, initially demanding, e.g. "We want food," "We want freedom of
worship," "We want union freedom" - steps that will lead us toward the
realization of the goals of our movement, which are: GOD, HOMELAND and
DEMOCRACY.

If a lack of organization and command is noted in the enemy authority, and
the people find themselves in a state of exaltation, advantage can be taken of
this circumstance so that our agitators will raise the tone of the rallying
slogans, taking them to the most strident point.

If the masses are not emotionally exalted, our agitators will continue with the
"partial" slogans, and the demands will be based on daily needs, chaining them
to the goals of our movement.

An example of the need to give simple slogans is that few people think in terms
of millions of cordobas, but any citizen, however humble he may be, understands
that a pair of shoes is necessary. The goals of the movement are of an
ideological nature, but our agitators must realize that food - "bread and
butter," "the tortilla and red beans" - pull along the people, and it should be
understood that this is their main mission.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately