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Live Alex Jones Show Forum => Live Show Forum 11AM - 3PM Weekdays & 4PM - 6PM Sunday CST => ***The Second Amendment, Anti-Tyranny, Firearms Board*** => Topic started by: J. Croft on October 25, 2008, 02:13:12 pm

Title: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: J. Croft on October 25, 2008, 02:13:12 pm
GUN SHOPPING


J. Croft
http://freedomguide.blogspot.com


Know what you want. Know what you need.

If you don’t know what you need, I’ll tell you; you first need a Constitution Rifle, a weapon you can strike the enemies of Freedom down at hundreds of yards away. This and the mastering of the technique and art of rifle shooting is the foundation of our Constitutional Republic and of Freedom-the means to defend our Republic, our Freedom. Beyond that there are the needs for every day home and personal defense-those can be met with pistols, shotguns, and even semi-automatic “assault” rifles. .22s for target practice, plinking and small game.

BEFORE YOU BUY…

Know your guns. Know each type, know the models, their strong and weak points, what to look for. Can you get spare parts, is it rare and collectible or total junk. Can you get ammo for it, how badly does that particular weapon treat it’s brass. Check to see if parts are intolerably loose.

HOW TO ACT AND DRESS

Most sellers are going to be adult mainstream American males. Dress and act acceptably to them, but not in a way that suggests you’re patronizing them. KNOW ABOUT GUNS because these guys certainly do and are mostly Law and Order types. Remember, they don’t have to sell to you so don’t act like it’d be a bad ideal to sell to you. Be:

*A hunter looking for a new rifle

*A decent, hardworking family man looking to protect his family

*A collector starting out(REALLY know history)

WHERE TO LOOK:

Yard sales, flea markets, etc.

A source for a gun-probably not what you’d like but it beats nothing. Also, it takes some additional legwork. Its pot luck; there could be a drought of guns, or there could be ten guns, or it’s ten guns that are useless.

Gun Stores-yes for parts, ammo and accessories, otherwise hell no! Why? Federal registration form 4477

Used to be yellow, you could orbit the tables at gun shows and it’d be obvious who had the forms-who was a dealer. A couple years ago they changed the color scheme to white, which makes it look just like all the other paperwork dealers like to lug around.

I can refuse to buy guns off dealers on principle: they KNOW by obeying illegal federal edicts to coerce you to submitting to registration via the 4477 they’re laying the groundwork for confiscation. I mean, anybody remember that scene from “Red Dawn” where the Nicaraguan general gives orders to hit the local sporting goods stores and gather up those forms? Anybody remember where all those gun owners wound up? The concentration camp.

Now we got home grown communists, and they’re going to do the same thing-because people are too soft to not boycott anyone that makes them submit to becoming targets.

Gun shows

My God do I love gun shows! One of the last vestiges of unfettered Freedom-Americans walking about, armed. Aside from that, gun shows are one stop shopping for not just guns, but bulk ammunition, web gear to secure your extra magazines, manuals, training videos. You will meet many people a lot like you who are preparing for the worst, or just enjoying their Freedom. That being said, there are downsides to a open air arms market.

Junk gun sellers and other hustlers.

More than a few guns are junk from the design board. More than a few guns that aren’t junk from the design board are manufactured poorly. More than a few guns that aren’t junk when they were new become junk when substandard parts are substituted, or the barrel wears out, or the weapon isn’t taken care of. These guns should be labeled as parts guns and priced accordingly but there are more than a few sellers out there who will… misrepresent what they got.

So don’t be a mark: know your guns, how they work, what to look for. Check out the headspace with a caliber gauge, feeler gauge for the HK/Cetme rifles, and a bullet for the muzzle-if it goes all the way in it won’t shoot right. Know where to check for excessive wear, cycle the weapon to make certain it won’t bind or is too loose, check the feed and function of the magazine with dummy rounds. Use those same dummy rounds to make certain the weapon will feed, extract and eject. Check the sights-make certain they’re aligned, and tight. Study up especially for the Cetme and M1Garand/M14 rifles as they require specialized knowledge. Know who are the scumbags, who will slip a bad gun in once in awhile, and who you can trust.

Times are tough, but there’s no excuse for conning Americans.

Licensed dealers versus private sellers

Next thing is to spot and avoid licensed dealers, because the same rules apply to them as gun shops; you buy from them you’re registering yourself with the federal government as a gun owner. Like I stated above, gun ownership is a Right that cannot and must not be subject to license as said license will inevitably be taken away by the beast. So, walk around, orbit the tables. Look around at the seller’s area and if you see paperwork with the white 4477 sheet smile and move on. Trust me you’ll find a private seller for anything you need.

F-troop and their lame ass traps

Unfortunately the BATF loves gun shows too; they swarm and look to entrap people, and profile everybody who they talk to, looking for violations of their unconstitutional, arcane rules.

One time, I had this 400lb fat slob of a agent come up to me, showing interest in a Enfield bolt action rifle I had bought. He rudely grabs it out of my hands and trying not to retch from his fetid breath tries telling me that it’s a “assault rifle”. The f**ker comes at me tries to sound like he’s part of the gun culture and it’s just so obvious.

Another was when this skinny 5 ft loser comes to me, wants me to straw purchase a Mini Uzi for him off this one dude I used to buy guns off of regularly. There’s a low grade predator/vulture vibe with these people that coupled with their obvious lack of knowledge about guns, obvious lack of respect and love for them that comes across. Exit the conversation with them as quickly as possible and never, ever speak or acknowledge their existence again. Tell others so they to can shun them and hopefully their lack of performance can get them fired, or at least demoted.

There ARE skilled BATFags out there, that are good at entraping Americans with their rules. When they do, it’s going to be you against the beast and the rules are rigged for you to lose. They decide to bust you those f**ks will strong arm you into becoming one of their snitches-you’ll be running around trying to get people to straw purchase a gun for them, or buy a machine gun off of you, or some other bullshit.

What to get as of October, 2008

Military pattern semi-automatic main battle rifles in 7.62x51 NATO. They offer the best optimum of range, cartridge and firepower. With them you can engage and hit your enemy past 300 yards, well past most troops marksmanship training and well past the effective range of fully automatic assault rifle fire. You have the small arms advantage, so keep your enemy beyond your battle sight zero. I have experience with all of the following rifles, save one. I will list them in order of personal preference.

rest w/ pics at link:

http://freedomguide.blogspot.com/2008/10/gun-shopping.html (http://freedomguide.blogspot.com/2008/10/gun-shopping.html)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: s3d1t0r on October 25, 2008, 04:57:41 pm
Excellent Information, Thank you.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: ES on October 25, 2008, 05:28:26 pm
Great article thanks for posting.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: hellcatjr on October 25, 2008, 05:39:35 pm
x2 thumbs up, great article.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tombstone on October 25, 2008, 06:49:01 pm
I'm pretty sure it is ATF form 4473 not 4477
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: disciplecore on October 25, 2008, 07:05:42 pm
an* SKS *rifle  is one of the best weapons to have
What does SKS stand for?

Simonov System Self-loading Carbine. The SKS was designed in the waning days of “Great Patriotic War” (known to the rest of us as World War II) by Russian designer Sergei Simonov. It was the first officially adopted arm chambered for the then new 7.62x39mm “intermediate” cartridge.

1) ammo is cheap 20 rounds right now are 2.99 academy sports you can get 1000rounds for 209 dollars
2) you can teach a young kid how to dismantle clean and put together
3)  it uses 7.62mm X39  they are extremely accurate it will take down anything, i shoot threw 1/4 inch steel plate at 50yds and it keeps going threw my backdrop threw the tires and 5 wood pallets and finally into the  huge dirt hill 2 or 3 feet into the dirt
4) they are fairly cheap i got mine from a pawnshop in Florida for 160
5)they come with a cleaning kit in the guns butt,
6)you can modify it a lot but i keep mine old school,
7) you can get good 40 round clips for them even up to 100 round drums
8) you can almost do anything to it  Ive seen a show that stated people used them during ww2 in water, buried them and banged them up and they still shoot accurate.
9) The bayonets on them are pretty cool  if you don't shoot the enemy you can simply stab them.
10)SKS Carbines are not new firearms — they are military surplus. Many have been in storage for years before being sold in the U.S. — and were covered in cosmoline in order to preserve them. The basic design is approximately sixty years old and the rifles themselves were manufactured decades ago. But when properly checked and maintained they have a reputation as being simple and reliable.
hope this helps anyone looking for a good rifle
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: heavyhebrew on October 25, 2008, 07:11:31 pm
Speaking of WW2 Soviet weapons.

Wish list: PPSh-41

Seriously.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: disciplecore on October 25, 2008, 07:19:42 pm
Speaking of WW2 Soviet weapons.

Wish list: PPSh-41

Seriously.

Yeap not a bad way to spend half a grand to a grand! I love that weapon the PPSh-41.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: zdux0012 on October 25, 2008, 09:23:07 pm
I'd kind of like to own a gun, I currently do not.
What paper work is needed. I would rather not sign anything. The way I read the constitution I should not have to register in order to own a firearm.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: ES on October 25, 2008, 11:27:36 pm
I'd kind of like to own a gun, I currently do not.
What paper work is needed. I would rather not sign anything. The way I read the constitution I should not have to register in order to own a firearm.

You're right their shouldn't be any paper work but their is unless you buy from a private seller at a gun show or from an ad in the paper.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: disciplecore on October 25, 2008, 11:31:13 pm
I'd kind of like to own a gun, I currently do not.
What paper work is needed. I would rather not sign anything. The way I read the constitution I should not have to register in order to own a firearm.

It depends where your from google your states  for gun laws most states at 18 you can buy a rifle or shotgun you dont sign anything the only thing they do is run a background check it checks to see if you have been arrested etc, but handguns are different its 21 and they register it to you, if you have a felony you cant legally buy a gun,
if you are looking for a shotgun go to  walmart  they have a 98 dollar mossberg 500 12 gauge shotgun its a great deal,  
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: national732 on October 26, 2008, 12:09:08 am
   This is the best post I've seen all week.  Hats off to you.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: JonTheSavage on October 26, 2008, 01:19:53 am
Your sports article is good too. People waste their lives with that bullshit.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: zdux0012 on October 26, 2008, 02:03:25 am
Isn't there some sort of paper work involved?
I mean I can't just go to walmart or a gun shop and buy one right?
I need some sort of gun-owner license?
I suppose ideally I'd like a gun that could be converted to an automatic, assuming that isn't illegal.
And a hand gun.

I really don't know how it works at all.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Amd304912 on October 26, 2008, 02:09:04 am
firearms id card. cops supply them, but there is always thrift and the system is illegal so loops are everywhere.

confiscation wont start in watts but washington, not baltimore or brooklyn but in the bay.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: kevlar442 on October 26, 2008, 02:15:10 am
7.62mm(.308) is a good caliber to have if TSHTF.  You can always get more ammo from the guys with blue helmets.  ;)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Amd304912 on October 26, 2008, 02:26:32 am
no doubt. best to get one of these tho,

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/MAG-latrun-exhibition-1.jpg/800px-MAG-latrun-exhibition-1.jpg)

you can get them off tanks
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on October 26, 2008, 02:28:44 am
Is that an FN-C2?
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Amd304912 on October 26, 2008, 02:30:20 am
The 7.62mm AA-L37A1 machine gun is used as an anti-aircraft weapon on the Mk5 battle tank.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on October 26, 2008, 02:50:22 am
This is a good, dependable 7.62 rifle. The FN-C1
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/johntsul/fal_c2.jpg)

For those without access to tanks ;D ;D
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on October 26, 2008, 11:20:38 am
Quote
are those still in service???

The Army never throws it's toys away, but I'd rather have the 50 cal sitting beside it. ;)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on October 26, 2008, 12:06:17 pm
The one on the left is a tank mountable 50 cal belt fed machine gun. Not a sniper rifle.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: TroyStone on October 26, 2008, 12:07:05 pm
what are your thoughts about a concealed carry permit? i've been thinking of getting one. i would love to carry my pistol with me. since i already signed the forms, and background check at the gun shop, i figure i'm already on the list.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: UK Lyn on October 26, 2008, 12:14:49 pm
This is a good, dependable 7.62 rifle. The FN-C1
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/johntsul/fal_c2.jpg)

For those without access to tanks ;D ;D

Ahh, that takes me back a bit. I had the regular FN during my service days, could keep a 1.5 inch group at the 100 yard point with those plain old iron sights and always nail the head at the 300yd. Never jammed once on me, even caked in mud, not ever, man I loved that rifle. Was planning to get one for domestic (target shooting) use, until the UK's Hungerford Massacre was used as an excuse to take the license to own these away from the lawful.

A lot of Brits miss our rights to own defensive guns.

In these increasingly violent times, I cannot tell you American folks here how awful it feels not being allowed to defend ones family in realistic terms if TSHTF (WTF is "reasonable force"?). You must fight tooth and nail to keep that 2nd Amendment 100% intact.

Nice article!! You know what to do, so get buyin' !!
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on October 26, 2008, 12:27:23 pm
what are your thoughts about a concealed carry permit? i've been thinking of getting one. i would love to carry my pistol with me. since i already signed the forms, and background check at the gun shop, i figure i'm already on the list.

I imagine there are probably a lot of states trying to repeal that concealed carry permit law. Who knows? If it makes you feel safer, I say go for it. We don't have that opportunity up here in Canada. I beat a charge recently for "carrying a concealed weapon". I was stopped in my vehicle for a routine check by the RCMP and the rookie cop found a replica .357 pellet/Co2 pistol. He acted like I was a mobster hitman and had me on the ground! It wasn't even loaded. When I went to court, the judge laughed and admonished the cop for wasting the court's time. One up for me. I live in a small town and whenever I see this rook, he gives me the "evil eye".  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on October 26, 2008, 12:33:57 pm
he said he wanted a 50 cal beside it so i ask if he wants a 50 cal sniper rifle or machine gun

Sorry X9ballX, I wasn't trying to start anything; just pointing out the difference.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on October 26, 2008, 12:42:01 pm
how many states still have open carry

Although the current trend towards adopting concealed carry laws has been met with opposition, no state which has adopted a "Shall-Issue" concealed carry law has reversed its decision. As of February 2008, 48 US states allow some form of concealed carry[1] (though 9 of them have discretionary "may-issue" policies, a few of these being effectively "no-issue" in practice) and all but 6 provide for some variant on non-concealed "open-carry"[2]. The states of Wisconsin, Illinois and the District of Columbia do not have any form of concealed-carry licensing; Wisconsin allows for open carry in most situations, while Illinois only allows it in rural areas subject to county restriction. The District of Columbia had a blanket ban on ownership, possession and carry of handguns in its jurisdiction which began in 1976; this was struck down June 26, 2008 by the US Supreme Court.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: lazarus on October 26, 2008, 12:52:20 pm
paging esquared...
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on October 26, 2008, 12:56:48 pm
its cool. alot of arguments happen due to comunitcation errors.one person says one thing and the person it is said to takes it as something else


I most heartingly agree. United we stand, divided we fall. I think a lot of people come on this forum to intentionally rile up the membership. You can usually spot them a mile away. I try to avoid those threads. No sense replying to trolls; just a waste of time. I like to learn good info and contribute where I can.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: kevlar442 on October 26, 2008, 01:27:25 pm
how many states still have open carry

About 15 states still allow unrestricted open carry.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: national732 on October 26, 2008, 03:11:19 pm
   Use at your own risk.  http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html (http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Zed on October 26, 2008, 03:28:09 pm
how many states still have open carry

This Many

http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: disciplecore on October 26, 2008, 08:05:14 pm
Isn't there some sort of paper work involved?
I mean I can't just go to walmart or a gun shop and buy one right?
I need some sort of gun-owner license?
I suppose ideally I'd like a gun that could be converted to an automatic, assuming that isn't illegal.
And a hand gun.

I really don't know how it works at all.

There isn't any paperwork you can go to walmart in most states and buy a shotgun or rifle without any paperwork other than the background check paperwork.

 and most semi auto can be simply turned into an auto, i went to a gun show in Alabama and they had a simple 2 page pamphlet on explaining how to turn an sks into fully auto, but seriously fully auto isn't as useful in my opinion  as semi auto because with full auto you waste alot of ammo, semi is good enough and your gun can jam up, if you have ever shot a full auto rifle you know what i mean semi auto saves rounds and i think is more effective.

Its illegal to convert it to auto anyways a felony in most states, i think every american citizen should get a gun at birth for when they are older and able to use it, every person in Israel is issued one after a term in the military required and gets to keep their weapon, i think the  Swiss military does the same thing,
hope this helps
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Neutron on October 26, 2008, 08:53:35 pm
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/M82Barrett.jpg)

50 Cal M82 Barrett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NCJFI7T6Zc&feature=related

Penetrates a manhole cover 3 1/2 inches thick, “bullet resistant" glass  3/4 inches thick, 4 cinderblocks and a 600 pound safe.

Cost about $7,500 and available for purchase at your local Cabela's sporting goods outlet.

Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: disciplecore on October 26, 2008, 08:57:31 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NCJFI7T6Zc&feature=related

Penetrates a manhole cover 3 1/2 inches thick, “bullet resistant" glass  3/4 inches thick, 4 cinderblocks and a 600 pound safe.

Cost about $7,500 and available for purchase at your local Cabela's sporting goods outlet.


[/quote]


nice weapon!
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Neutron on October 26, 2008, 09:05:31 pm

"Like most full powered rifle rounds, especially those firing full metal jacketed bullets, the M82 easily penetrates Type IV body armor and most common building materials. With its added power due to its scale, the M82 is among those rifles that can additionally pierce hard armors and level 8 ballistic glass (considered the strongest available). Due to these capabilities, the M82 is used as an example of big bore rifles whose public sale is opposed by gun control proponents. The banning of .50 caliber rifles to non-governmental owners in California and discussion of similar legislation in other states has led Barrett to offer rifles in a proprietary caliber of similar performance, the .416 Barrett that is smaller in diameter, faster, and has an improved ballistic coefficient that could penetrate better.

In response to California's ban of civilian ownership of .50 caliber rifles, (Ronnie) Barrett suspended sales and service to all law enforcement agencies in California"


I like this Ronnie Barrett guy. He tells California's law enforcement to shove it and will not supply them them with Barrett rifles or service the ones they already have.   
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: disciplecore on October 26, 2008, 09:11:41 pm
"Like most full powered rifle rounds, especially those firing full metal jacketed bullets, the M82 easily penetrates Type IV body armor and most common building materials. With its added power due to its scale, the M82 is among those rifles that can additionally pierce hard armors and level 8 ballistic glass (considered the strongest available). Due to these capabilities, the M82 is used as an example of big bore rifles whose public sale is opposed by gun control proponents. The banning of .50 caliber rifles to non-governmental owners in California and discussion of similar legislation in other states has led Barrett to offer rifles in a proprietary caliber of similar performance, the .416 Barrett that is smaller in diameter, faster, and has an improved ballistic coefficient that could penetrate better.

In response to California's ban of civilian ownership of .50 caliber rifles, (Ronnie) Barrett suspended sales and service to all law enforcement agencies in California"


I like this Ronnie Barrett guy. He tells California's law enforcement to shove it and will not supply them them with Barrett rifles or service the ones they already have.   

Good man
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: jflack on October 27, 2008, 08:07:34 am
Ok, for those of us who can't afford a massive machine gun, what is the best, most basic rifle to have in a time of need?  One that can defend and also kill game if needed?

Remington, Savage, Winchester or Ruger?

Bold action?

And can you find one used for under $300?
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: JonTheSavage on October 27, 2008, 08:10:05 am
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/M82Barrett.jpg)

They had one on the new Rambo movie. It was quite amazing watching the thugs fly 20 feet back with a 4 inch hole in them. The .50 cal is truly the right arm of the free world.

Now, we need a mini-gun version.  ;D
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: lazarus on October 27, 2008, 08:17:08 am
Ok, for those of us who can't afford a massive machine gun, what is the best, most basic rifle to have in a time of need?  One that can defend and also kill game if needed?

Remington, Savage, Winchester or Ruger?

Bold action?

And can you find one used for under $300?

Best thread so far on Prison Planet Forum

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=50745.0 (http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=50745.0)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Neutron on October 27, 2008, 09:08:23 am
Ok, for those of us who can't afford a massive machine gun, what is the best, most basic rifle to have in a time of need?  One that can defend and also kill game if needed?

Remington, Savage, Winchester or Ruger?

Bold action?

And can you find one used for under $300?

A Ruger 10/22 is a small caliber semi automatic (bullets fire as fast as you can pull the trigger) rifle that is good for small game (wolf and smaller). It has the advantage of having small bullets that are low cost. It would be easy to carry around 1000 rounds in the backpack. It is relatively quiet (less likely to be discovered if you are survival shooting for food). The Mafia uses the 22 caliber for many of their hits. It has the disadvantage of not having penetrating power of a 30.06 (deer hunting) or a 308 NATO round or the range. The Ruger 10/22 is about $200 new.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/
 
Quote
"Hands down, this is the best survival rifle anyone could have in virtually any situation that might arise. The after-market add-ons can all be done by a non-gunsmith and the performance is unbeatable. In a survival situation a .22LR (long rifle) caliber wound can be as fatal as HIV (AIDS). Not everyone can treat gunshot wounds, and a Ruger 10/22 will keep a head down, as readily as a 30.06 in a firefight. A 10/22 can be fired by almost anyone and it has virtually no recoil to scare the shooter into closing their eyes and shooting wild. The .22LR caliber is the cheapest and most readily found ammo.

One .22 round costs about 2 cents compared to a 9mm round at 23 cents. A big difference when stocking a couple thousand rounds. One man can carry 2000 rounds on him; no other round can make that claim. Rugers 10/22s can shoot all day without having to be cleaned, and will feed any .22 caliber round in the marketplace (except the .22 WMR magnum). Ruger 10/22s can produce ½ in match groups at 100 yards -- and that is hard to beat. The price of a 10/22 is under $200, and for a few dollars more the 10/22 can be a top match rifle."


Then there is this...

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Rem700a.jpg)


(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Remington.jpg)   
 

http://www.snipercentral.com/entrypackage.htm   for $950
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: jflack on October 27, 2008, 09:23:12 am
A Ruger 10/22 is a small caliber semi automatic (bullets fire as fast as you can pull the trigger) rifle that is good for small game (wolf and smaller). It has the advantage of having small bullets that are low cost. It would be easy to carry around 1000 rounds in the backpack. It is relatively quiet (less likely to be discovered if you are survival shooting for food). The Mafia uses the 22 caliber for many of their hits. It has the disadvantage of not having penetrating power of a 30.06 (deer hunting) or a 308 NATO round or the range. The Ruger 10/22 is about $200 new.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/
 

Then there is this...

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Rem700a.jpg)


(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Remington.jpg)   
 

http://www.snipercentral.com/entrypackage.htm   for $950

Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Neutron on October 27, 2008, 09:39:55 am
A Ruger 10/22 is a small caliber semi automatic (bullets fire as fast as you can pull the trigger) rifle that is good for small game (wolf and smaller). It has the advantage of having small bullets that are low cost. It would be easy to carry around 1000 rounds in the backpack.



(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/RI-Rimfire.jpg)


(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/RI-Centerfire.jpg)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: lazarus on October 27, 2008, 09:48:21 am

There ARE skilled BATFags out there, that are good at entraping Americans with their rules.


I had an ATF official park in front of my house the other day. I met him on the sidewalk. He showed me his ID. He said that my neighbor was applying for a job and wondered if he could ask me some questions about him. I told him no. For all I knew he was more interested in me than my neighbor. I am all legal BTW. I don't snitch in either case. He then drove off.

I relate this story FYI. I recommend people do the same.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Zed on November 03, 2008, 08:27:49 pm
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/M82Barrett.jpg)

50 Cal M82 Barrett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NCJFI7T6Zc&feature=related

Penetrates a manhole cover 3 1/2 inches thick, “bullet resistant" glass  3/4 inches thick, 4 cinderblocks and a 600 pound safe.

Cost about $7,500 and available for purchase at your local Cabela's sporting goods outlet.



Buzz!!!

Nope, will only Penetrate like that with Raufus Amunition normal FMJ will Not.

And the price averages $8500, and cabelas only sells Armalite AR50's not Barrett M82's
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Falcon57 on November 11, 2008, 06:37:28 am
There isn't any paperwork you can go to walmart in most states and buy a shotgun or rifle without any paperwork other than the background check paperwork.

Even with the background check paperwork, wouldn't that also open the door for gun confiscation?
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Falcon57 on November 14, 2008, 03:01:31 pm
GUN SHOPPING
Gun shows

My God do I love gun shows! One of the last vestiges of unfettered Freedom-Americans walking about, armed. Aside from that, gun shows are one stop shopping for not just guns, but bulk ammunition, web gear to secure your extra magazines, manuals, training videos. You will meet many people a lot like you who are preparing for the worst, or just enjoying their Freedom. That being said, there are downsides to a open air arms market.



What form of payment do private sellers at gun shows usually accept?  Cash, checks?
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: RollerCam on November 19, 2008, 12:54:37 pm
There isn't any paperwork you can go to walmart in most states and buy a shotgun or rifle without any paperwork other than the background check paperwork."

Every firearm sold by walmart will require you to fill out a 4473 form. Yes, that's what is known as "paperwork."


"...and most semi auto can be simply turned into an auto,

Wrong. They would not be for sale in the USA if they were actually able to be "simply turned into an auto." It doesn't work that way anymore. Maybe it worked like that back in the 1940's and 50's but NOT NOW. It would take a machine shop and a good machinist with quite a bit of knowledge in weapons design to convert a typical, modern semi-auto into one of those "evil machine guns."


"... i went to a gun show in Alabama and they had a simple 2 page pamphlet on explaining how to turn an sks into fully auto,"

Read one of those pamphlets some time. If you're not a machinist / experienced tig welder, you'd only turn your new weapon into a ruined hunk of metal/wood/plastic.

"Its illegal to convert it to auto anyways a felony in most states..."

Yes. very illegal... in all 50 states.

Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: J. Croft on November 19, 2008, 04:16:09 pm
First, full auto's a waste of ammunition.  You want kills you learn to make every shot count-so get to www.rwva.org (http://www.rwva.org)and learn how to use a rifle.  Dry fire your rifle in shooting positions and get a airsoft replica of your rifle and PRACTICE DAILY.

Get a rifle-like I stated, military pattern semiautomatic rifle-M14, FAL, HK/CETME

M14 is my first choice, the long sight radius, shootability, reliability and scope mount make this child of the World War Two M1 Garand still a deadly tool.  Don't tart it up like a M4 with collapsing stocks, four point pitcinny rails and all that other crap you can hang twenty pieces of other crap on.  You'll just weigh yourself down.  Fiberglass stock, m-1907 shooting sling, the rifle was made for shooting with the sling and once you make that discovery yourself you won't need a bipod either.

FAL has a pistol grip, but the charging handle's on the left hand side.  Some models won't have a last round bolt hold open so you'll have to rock the bolt back again.  Rear sight's too wobbly and rudimentary so you'll have to scope it.

HK/CETME is the most reliable rifle but its ergonomics suck ass.  The CETME in particular is heavy and you might have to have it checked out by someone experienced in fixing them.  Need a scope and mount for it and a cheek pad because of the 1-400 yard sight, and drill the rear stock and fix a point up front for a proper shooting sling... ergonomics really suck for reloading shooting with the m-1907 sling but once set up, acceptable.

IF you don't have enough money a M1 Garand is acceptable, but stock up on many hundreds of the 8 rd en bloc clips.

Don't buy from dealers!  Hit the newspapers, the flea markets, the gun shows, walk around until you see a seller.  Ask if he shot the rifle himself but before that walk around a couple times see if he's got those federal forms hidden or has displays for credit cards or has prices like 1999.95-private sellers will list in whole numbers but some dealers are getting wise and also listing by whole price.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: freeflying on November 24, 2008, 12:24:30 am
They had one on the new Rambo movie. It was quite amazing watching the thugs fly 20 feet back with a 4 inch hole in them. The .50 cal is truly the right arm of the free world.

Now, we need a mini-gun version.  ;D
There is a .50 minigun but it is rarely seen. http://www.combatfilms.com/cfrtv_archive_0005.asp There are several of the class 2 guys that have built them but they are a very complicated weapons. The .50 is highly over rated and every one wants one but after you are the fool that had to lug it around in combat your opinion changes on it.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: freeflying on November 24, 2008, 12:29:02 am
Every firearm sold by walmart will require you to fill out a 4473 form. Yes, that's what is known as "paperwork."


Wrong. They would not be for sale in the USA if they were actually able to be "simply turned into an auto." It doesn't work that way anymore. Maybe it worked like that back in the 1940's and 50's but NOT NOW. It would take a machine shop and a good machinist with quite a bit of knowledge in weapons design to convert a typical, modern semi-auto into one of those "evil machine guns."


Read one of those pamphlets some time. If you're not a machinist / experienced tig welder, you'd only turn your new weapon into a ruined hunk of metal/wood/plastic.

Yes. very illegal... in all 50 states.



I could turn most full with a dremel tool. A quality conversion takes tools and time but there are down and dirty tricks for most. If you are a class 2 you can still make new machine guns for dealer samples and it is legal.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: qimds on December 13, 2008, 07:22:34 pm
How about a Dillon mini gun? http://www.dillonaero.com/ (http://www.dillonaero.com/)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll216/qimds/WNUS_30-cal_GAU17_minigun_p.jpg)
See it tear a car to shreds on Monster Garage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODiSfBUMApA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODiSfBUMApA)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on December 13, 2008, 07:27:49 pm
How about a Dillon mini gun? http://www.dillonaero.com/ (http://www.dillonaero.com/)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll216/qimds/WNUS_30-cal_GAU17_minigun_p.jpg)
See it tear a car to shreds on Monster Garage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODiSfBUMApA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODiSfBUMApA)

How's about this?
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/johntsul/PIKO.jpg)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Falcon57 on December 29, 2008, 07:13:30 pm
I was looking the classifieds in my local paper on Sunday, and spotted a Mossberg 835 for $275.  I thought this was a good deal.  When I get the cash together and if this shotgun is still available I just might get it.  I think it is a 12 gauge.  The question I have what type of shells should I get.  I really don't want to literally blow someones face off, but at the same time I want something that has stopping power.  I know I am a bit naive about this and need some advice.

Thanks.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: heavyhebrew on December 29, 2008, 07:55:08 pm
I was looking the classifieds in my local paper on Sunday, and spotted a Mossberg 835 for $275.  I thought this was a good deal.  When I get the cash together and if this shotgun is still available I just might get it.  I think it is a 12 gauge.  The question I have what type of shells should I get.  I really don't want to literally blow someones face off, but at the same time I want something that has stopping power.  I know I am a bit naive about this and need some advice.

Thanks.

You can never go wrong with a shotgun. It's the point and shoot weapon for home defense, you just generally aim towards center of mass. Another benefit is background isn't as important. You miss with a shotgun and you don't have to worry about your round going down range and tunneling into your neighbors house like you would a rifle or pistol. Downside is range. But in the confines of home defense against an intruder, a shotgun can't be beat.

Also very useful for hunting. Something about loading the dogs up and heading out for pheasant...
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Falcon57 on December 29, 2008, 07:58:06 pm
You can never go wrong with a shotgun. It's the point and shoot weapon for home defense, you just generally aim towards center of mass. Another benefit is background isn't as important. You miss with a shotgun and you don't have to worry about your round going down range and tunneling into your neighbors house like you would a rifle or pistol. Downside is range. But in the confines of home defense against an intruder, a shotgun can't be beat.

Also very useful for hunting. Something about loading the dogs up and heading out for pheasant...

I agree.  I wanted to know what type of shells are the best to use for short-range home defense (which is what I am preparing for).
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Libertarian Perspective on December 29, 2008, 08:24:52 pm
Once I get my licence (I'm from UK) I want to get the Beretta Extrema 2 shotgun.
http://www.ducks.org/media/Alaska/AK%20Content/_images/Beretta%20Xtrema2(large).jpg

Seems like a pretty cool gun and I seen some videos of what it can do. At the moment I do recreational shooting and even though I have only been shooting for a month the instructors have commented on my safe handling of guns and accuracy so I hope to be able to purchase a shotgun soon. If all goes well applying for FAC(Fire Arm Certificate licence) next year.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Zed on December 29, 2008, 08:46:01 pm
How about a Dillon mini gun? http://www.dillonaero.com/ (http://www.dillonaero.com/)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll216/qimds/WNUS_30-cal_GAU17_minigun_p.jpg)
See it tear a car to shreds on Monster Garage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODiSfBUMApA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODiSfBUMApA)

Nah I'd Prefer a A10 Mounted GAU 8A with a lifetime supply of DU ammo & Fuel ;D

(http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNNeth_30mm_Goalkeeper_GAU8_pic.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PQ36_4VWaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riqu8hmPHd0
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: heavyhebrew on December 29, 2008, 09:59:47 pm
I agree.  I wanted to know what type of shells are the best to use for short-range home defense (which is what I am preparing for).

Non-lethal rounds, a good trick from the farmers of yesteryear:
(http://www.theboxotruth.com/images/33-1.jpg)

Here is an excellent, easy to read guide on shells: http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Shotgun-Shells-and-Chokes (http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Shotgun-Shells-and-Chokes)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Falcon57 on December 30, 2008, 04:43:24 am
Non-lethal rounds, a good trick from the farmers of yesteryear:
(http://www.theboxotruth.com/images/33-1.jpg)

Here is an excellent, easy to read guide on shells: http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Shotgun-Shells-and-Chokes (http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Shotgun-Shells-and-Chokes)

Thanks for the link.  That helps.  It seems that buck-shot would be ideal for home defense (short-range).
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Falcon57 on January 29, 2009, 06:02:26 am
I went to a gun show at a local VFW and boy was it packed.  There were no parking left in the lot and had to go across the street and then risk my life to get back.  There were a lot of vintage guns dating back to the old west.  There was, I believe an AK-47 for just under a thousand.

I looked around and thought some of the guns were overpriced and looked to see any ATF forms that people were required to fill out.  I really saw none but was as careful as possible. 

I thought long and hard as to what I really need for home defense and at first wanted to get a 12 gauge in good condition.  Then I came to a table with some 12 gauge and 20 gauge shotguns for what I thought were pretty good prices.  I chatted with the seller and asked a bunch of questions.  I then decided, just for home defense, a 20 gauge will do the job as good as a 12 gauge without as much recoil.  I did buy a Mossberg 500CG 20 gauge that can use 3" shells.  I believe that it hold 5 shells total.  I tested the pump action and trigger and thought it was in pretty good condition for what I paid.  I paid $180.00 for it.

I plan on having a friend help me test it out this spring.




Side note:  I again risked my life crossing the street with my purchase that I did not register (I don't intend to).  I also expected to be followed in my car by a unmarked police car ready to pounce on me, or even to run into a police check point.

Just kidding on the police car and check point. ::)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Jaan on February 01, 2009, 04:26:24 pm
Are AR-15 any different than a bottom loader rifle?
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: KI4BNC on February 04, 2009, 01:59:09 am
Isn't black powder still cash/carry?
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: xopatriot on February 04, 2009, 02:49:35 am

When I was looking for a rifle I my criteria due to limited financial means were price, and reliability. Lo and behold I found the weapon that met both those of those two criteria and more it came in the form of a modified AK rifle the saiga 7.62x39. also available in .223 and a shotgun version. You can aquire a saiga for around $400-$500 the price has gone up since Obama won. Pre Obama these beauties were selling under $300 a very good price for what is essentially an AK 47. The saiga can be converted to the original AK configuration by adding a pistol grip ($30) bullet guide ($15) to accept the inexpensive AK hi Cap magazines or buy the combo Folding Stock/Pistol grip ($69). You can see the instructions here and you can also see what the Saiga looks like before and after



http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm  (http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm)


It is not difficult to convert the weapon to it's original form and not to mention you will get acquainted with your new rifle and it's inner workings. The weapon itself comes from the highly reliable AK and venerable AK 47. I preffer this weapon over the ar15/M16/m4 for it's ruggedness and toughness you can clean the AK with motor oil and it will perform can't say that about the AR15's. I would say this weapon makes an excellent constitutional rifle, the iron sights are effective up to 300 yards you can take it to 500 with a scope. I am real fan of the weapon it can be used for hunting deer or blue helmets though the 223 is more accurate with practice the 7.62x39 can be just as effective. Well that's my 2 cents on for those looking for info on an inexpensive reliable weapon that could be used in a SHTF scenerio.

Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: adissenter2 on February 04, 2009, 02:53:01 am
(http://www.dsarms.com/images/STG58STD.gif)

http://www.dsarms.com/STG58-Austrian-FAL/products/9/ (http://www.dsarms.com/STG58-Austrian-FAL/products/9/)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: a ReVoLuTIONarY ideA on February 05, 2009, 12:57:37 am
What form of payment do private sellers at gun shows usually accept?  Cash, checks?

They will accept cash and no I.D. or background check unless they are a licensed firearms dealer.  If you are a private firearms dealer then you need no such license and your clients don't need to fill out any paperwork.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Nailer on February 05, 2009, 05:32:32 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiKklyIPH1Y&feature=related


watch what happens at 1:04 into the video.  really needed a gun .
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: cladano on February 05, 2009, 12:59:26 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiKklyIPH1Y&feature=related

watch what happens at 1:04 into the video.  really needed a gun .

Flagged... sigh
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Nailer on February 05, 2009, 01:37:20 pm
No jobs

No gold

No silver

No ammunition

No credible Main Stream Media

No wealth in Houses

No wealth in Stocks

No credible money....No end to printing money into oblivian

No WallStreet arrests and prosecutions

No president born in the U.S.

No Constitution

No Bill Of Rights

No talk of lowering or ending taxes

No Borders

No end to the Iraq occupation

No end to the Afghanistan War

No end to the looting of the american treasury

Something is Big is going to happen soon.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: flanagan on February 05, 2009, 01:53:20 pm
I agree.  I wanted to know what type of shells are the best to use for short-range home defense (which is what I am preparing for).

Federal and Brenneke make really good reduced recoil stuff. i also like the Hornady Tap LE rounds.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: adissenter2 on February 05, 2009, 06:38:39 pm
short range ammo? 

for a shotgun - slugs,  double ought buck, number 4 also, toss in shells loaded with rock salt ouchies

for a pistol - hollow points

rifle - something with a magazine

Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: tossthekitty on February 05, 2009, 09:02:57 pm
are those still in service??? do you really need that in your house???

What wrong with this in the house?  Is it going to "jump up" and do something all on its own?  I fail to see why one would not want one of these in his home... Wish all Ameriicans had one. 
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: xopatriot on February 05, 2009, 09:25:00 pm
The only reason american's don't have em is because it levels the playing field... The government does not play fair.
Title: Re: http://armslist.com
Post by: Steel on February 16, 2009, 09:17:06 pm
be patient and post as many places as you can, I clicked ammo and found Oklahoma City very well covered


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/45incans.jpg)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Nailer on February 20, 2009, 06:55:25 am
Illinois Gestapo state at it again.   >:(


http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/midwest/2009/02/18/97987.htm

An Illinois state lawmaker is proposing that gun owners be required to carry personal liability insurance of at least $1 million.

Rep. Kenneth Dunkin's bill seeks to amend the state's Firearm Owners Identification Card Act to provides that any person who owns a firearm in the state maintain a $1 million or higher policy of liability insurance "specifically covering any damages resulting from negligent or willful acts involving the use of such firearm while it is owned by such person."

A gun owner would be responsible after a firearm is lost or stolen until the loss or theft is reported to the police department or sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the owner resides.

Police would be empowered to pull the gun license of anyone who does not submit evidence of having the required insurance.

The measure is now in the House Rules Committee.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: mad_norwegian on February 20, 2009, 08:39:43 am
an* SKS *rifle  is one of the best weapons to have
What does SKS stand for?

Simonov System Self-loading Carbine. The SKS was designed in the waning days of “Great Patriotic War” (known to the rest of us as World War II) by Russian designer Sergei Simonov. It was the first officially adopted arm chambered for the then new 7.62x39mm “intermediate” cartridge.

1) ammo is cheap 20 rounds right now are 2.99 academy sports you can get 1000rounds for 209 dollars
2) you can teach a young kid how to dismantle clean and put together
3)  it uses 7.62mm X39  they are extremely accurate it will take down anything, i shoot threw 1/4 inch steel plate at 50yds and it keeps going threw my backdrop threw the tires and 5 wood pallets and finally into the  huge dirt hill 2 or 3 feet into the dirt
4) they are fairly cheap i got mine from a pawnshop in Florida for 160
5)they come with a cleaning kit in the guns butt,
6)you can modify it a lot but i keep mine old school,
7) you can get good 40 round clips for them even up to 100 round drums
8) you can almost do anything to it  Ive seen a show that stated people used them during ww2 in water, buried them and banged them up and they still shoot accurate.
9) The bayonets on them are pretty cool  if you don't shoot the enemy you can simply stab them.
10)SKS Carbines are not new firearms — they are military surplus. Many have been in storage for years before being sold in the U.S. — and were covered in cosmoline in order to preserve them. The basic design is approximately sixty years old and the rifles themselves were manufactured decades ago. But when properly checked and maintained they have a reputation as being simple and reliable.
hope this helps anyone looking for a good rifle

I agree SKS is a great rifle, but if you consider its semi-auto, one of the most important things is LONG RANGE. A 308 will give you long range, and a rifle like the G3 is still in use by the millitary, and will be for years, while the SKS is a bit outdated because. A SKS is a great buy though, but if you have the money i'd go for a 308 like the G3 (like PTR-91) or a FN-FAL. They have real millitary use. And BTW, i'd only get a 5.56 if it was in full auto (thats why they come in that calibre)
Title: Re: http://armslist.com
Post by: ChristSavage on February 22, 2009, 03:57:22 pm
Hey Jon, my state, Ohio is on the website u posted.  :).  However, some of the guns I have been looking at, the seller requires a photocopy of my drivers license, some of whom say they r not a dealer/FFL.  I am aware that in my state, there has to be a record of the sale made, as listed in this link I am about to put in about my state.  Any state's General Gun Laws can be found through this.
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaw_oh.htm (http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaw_oh.htm)

I don't want to leave a paper trail if I can help it, yet by giving a photocopy of my license, I basically screw myself if I decide to purchase from whomever I wish there, right?  After all, I do not know which municipalities in my state control possesion, since this is all new to me, and everything that I will list below as the site listed regarding firearms.

State Requirements
Rifles and Shotguns
Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.

Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.

Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.

Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.

Handguns

Permit to purchase handgun? No.*

Registration of handguns? No.*

Licensing of owners of handguns? No.*

Permit to carry handguns? No*

* Some municipalities control possession, sale or transfer of firearms. Controls include handgun registration, ID cards, waiting periods, permits to purchase, restrictions on handguns with barrel lengths less than 3 inches, prohibition on handguns weighing less than 19 ounces, costing less than $50 or $90 and able to melt at less than 800 degrees Farenheit. Also, prohibitions on firearms with obliterated markings and no use of any firearm by person less than 16 or 17 years of age.

Other Requirements

Is there a State waiting period? No.

Is there a FBI *NICS check for firearm transactions? Yes.

Permit to carry a concealed weapon required? Not allowed.

Record of sale: Yes.
*NICS - National Instant Check System

Caution: This summary is meant for general purposes only. Firearm laws frequently change.

Source: Department of the Treasury Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms - State Laws And Published Ordinances - Firearms (23rd Edition – 2001)
 

Title: Re: http://armslist.com
Post by: Nailer on March 30, 2009, 06:42:28 pm
looks great , love the site.. great job.
Title: I almost "shot my wad" when I saw this gun!! (pun intended)
Post by: rawiron1 on April 07, 2009, 10:00:05 am
https://www.mainemilitary.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=157&idproduct=1291

If I got a stock for her I would make all the yuppies at the skeet range have short barrel envy!

Jason
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: chrsswtzr on April 30, 2009, 09:49:09 am
I learned alot from reading that J Croft, thanks so much!
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: jkm1864 on May 01, 2009, 12:37:25 am
The article was good except for one mistake that he made. The M14 is not tapped or threaded for a scope and was never designed for a scope. You would have to get a after market scope mount that only mounts on two points meaning it can loose its zero. I have tried to mount a 2300 dollar scope on mine and the cheek weld sucks so bad I decided to put it on my new AR15 instead. The reason that is important is because when You put Your cheek to the stock You want to have an instant target instead of spending Your time moving Your head around trying to acquire a target. I will more than likely have to get a custom stock that has a raised stock so I will be able to mount a scope on it effectivly. I hope I am not discouraging anyone from buying one because in my opinion its the finest battle rifle ever produced by american craftsmanship. The rifle has the best iron sights bar none and nothing compares. I know out of all the rifles I have thats the one I would carry especially since it can punch through 2 vests with two rifle plates at the same time.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: d3adp00l on May 06, 2009, 10:57:04 pm
Prefered setup for myself

9mm carbine/smg for 100m and less.

308 rifle semi, 100m and beyond.


calico 950/ar10

in lue of that there are options

G3 is a great rifle, but it does do a number on brass, which makes reloading not possible, but if your not reloading then it dont matter

The fn fal is a bit heavy to haul around, and the ar10 is pricey, and mags are too,

The rock river lar8 uses fn fal mags which is nice.

I would like to see a keltec rfb I like the bullpup style of it, gives you long gun range in a package that is manuverable. But not having one makes it a decision I cant give a thumbs up or down on yet.

Everyone knows of the mp5 and it is a great 9mm carbine, but very pricey, Bushmaster carbon 15 9mm is a good alt for 9mm carbine, and the keltec sub 2000 is a cheap choice but they do the job, The LAR-9 is another good one. Basically something that can have a lot of rounds, it won't punch armor, but thats what the 308 is for.


another combo to mention is the fn 5-7 piston and the ar57, both take 5.7 ammo and the piston is 20 rounds stock, the ar uses p90 mags which means 50 rounds, damned good if you can get the good ammo. The stuff the sell here is a toned down version of it and is not nearly as effective as the mil 57 rounds.


And the 57 is not a commonly carried round, which makes it a bit harder to um, barrow from a "buddy" while "at the range"
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: KoWBoY on May 06, 2009, 11:03:40 pm

Everyone knows of the mp5 and it is a great 9mm carbine, but very pricey, Bushmaster carbon 15 9mm is a good alt for 9mm carbine, and the keltec sub 2000 is a cheap choice but they do the job, The LAR-9 is another good one. Basically something that can have a lot of rounds, it won't punch armor, but thats what the 308 is for.

And the 57 is not a commonly carried round, which makes it a bit harder to um, barrow from a "buddy" while "at the range"

You get shot at a lot?
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: egypt on May 27, 2009, 01:21:25 pm
If I am able to obtain the proper rifle & ammo for my husband & myself, where would we go to learn to shoot them?
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: KoWBoY on May 27, 2009, 01:27:34 pm
If I am able to obtain the proper rifle & ammo for my husband & myself, where would we go to learn to shoot them?

Where you are located will determine where to learn to shoot.

Do you know anyone or have friends or family that are familiar with firearms?

Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: freeflying on May 30, 2009, 06:32:23 am
All of the new ones at least from the 80's on are actually tapped and ready for scopes, scoped sniper rifles are the m-21. Springfield Armory is a M1A1, m-14 clone. If you do need a scope mount all the good ones use 3 points of contact and the mounts can be bought for as little as 40 bucks. Do some research on it before you buy. Many of the m-14 had receiver, barrel axis problems and this can be alleviated by Burris Z rings. I know.... ::)


 Your bad 2300 dollar cheek weld ::) is easily alleviated by a cheap 20$ cheek pad that straps in place. Mine shoots 1/2" at a hundred when I am on target... 8) Is most definitely the best battle rifle ever made and is 50 state legal.

Putting a $40 scope mount on a $2000 rifle is just lame. They are not heat treated and will flex leading to poor accuracy. The quality mounts will stay in place for the life of the barrel if installed correctly but I have seen the cheap ones come loose and start throwing shots off in as little as 50 rounds with the Springfield mount which is the worst one. Burris rings are pretty much bottom of the barrel as well. If you are going to go through the trouble of mounting a scope get a good mount and good rings. A quality mount starts at $200 and good rings start at $150 and go up from there

Maybe the cast Springfield or other brand receivers had axis issues but I have never seen a actual military M-14 receiver have the problems you are talking about. Commercial rifle production standards suck and I have had issues trying to barrel some of them but actual real M-14 receivers are simple as it all lines up perfectly. Putting this one back together tomorrow.

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/aptusshooter/IMG_0941.jpg)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: freeflying on May 30, 2009, 06:54:59 am
The article was good except for one mistake that he made. The M14 is not tapped or threaded for a scope and was never designed for a scope. You would have to get a after market scope mount that only mounts on two points meaning it can loose its zero. I have tried to mount a 2300 dollar scope on mine and the cheek weld sucks so bad I decided to put it on my new AR15 instead. The reason that is important is because when You put Your cheek to the stock You want to have an instant target instead of spending Your time moving Your head around trying to acquire a target. I will more than likely have to get a custom stock that has a raised stock so I will be able to mount a scope on it effectivly. I hope I am not discouraging anyone from buying one because in my opinion its the finest battle rifle ever produced by american craftsmanship. The rifle has the best iron sights bar none and nothing compares. I know out of all the rifles I have thats the one I would carry especially since it can punch through 2 vests with two rifle plates at the same time.

All the real M-14's i own are tapped, threaded and slotted on the side for a mount. There are some commercial rifles that were made without this provision.
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/aptusshooter/IMG_0944.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/aptusshooter/IMG_0941.jpg)
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Unintelligable Name on May 31, 2009, 08:45:04 pm
Yeah cheap parts on an expensive gun never made sense to me.

Cheap scope rings coupled with an expensive scope, or a cheap scope on an expensive gun are really comical.

I have a friend who threw a Leupold Rifleman series scope that cost about $250 on his $4,300 .50 BMG with $40 scope rings...

You want the good shit, you have to fork out the cash -- but speaking from my own experience, it's generally worth it.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: mad_norwegian on November 16, 2009, 10:49:39 pm
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/M82Barrett.jpg)

50 Cal M82 Barrett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NCJFI7T6Zc&feature=related

Penetrates a manhole cover 3 1/2 inches thick, “bullet resistant" glass  3/4 inches thick, 4 cinderblocks and a 600 pound safe.

Cost about $7,500 and available for purchase at your local Cabela's sporting goods outlet.



Absolutely! one i would have in my arsenal if i could buy it here in europe. My army have this rifle plus G3 plus glocks model 17 and 19. I live in norway, with very harsh artic climate. FN-FAL's froze here when guys from the british army were up here training some years back. I'd go for either a FN-FAL or G3, but my personal pref in the conditions up here would be a G3.

I would go for durability and reliability plus its millitary value ALL THE WAY! Guns are not likely to be used in a war now, but in 20-30 years, who knows. Probably your son or grandson will be the one that would need them, so get guns that will last and work long after guns are banned, in a time where spare parts is almost impossible to get.

Heres what I would buy:

- A .50 cal rifle (like this barret) since its truly a supreme long range sniper rifle and will have a big millitary value
- G3 rifle(s) (PTR-91 are said to be good american-made G3 clones)
- Glocks (.45 is a civilian round, 9mm is used by armies world wide and seems to be a standard, so i'd go for a 9mm)

There you have an excellent setup. Maybe add an AK47, a heavy barrel 308 rifle like remington 700 in case .50 ammo is impossible to get and a shotgun also (like remington 870) if you have money for it. Probably you dont, but these things might come handy too.

Get spare parts, springs, extra barrel etc, lots of ammo, oil it well and hide it for a bad day. A PVC pipe you seal with silicon and dig down in a semented drum or something somewhere nobody will find it.

Then as a second priority i would buy bulletproof vests, helmet, night optics etc. Not likely to be banned/regulated.
Third priority extra food, water-purifyer, antibiotics/first aid equipment, gassmask, solar cell panels, ovens so you can heat your house by firewood (in a cold climate), gold, pay off debt.

But remember, guns will be more valuable than gold if outlawed and will give you a good bargain for trade in those circumstanses.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: mad_norwegian on November 17, 2009, 10:27:02 am
I shot my .50 nine times today and everyone on the range was scared to shoot it.... With Ap rounds it will travel through at least 24" of wood. ;D

Theyre actually ment for armored wihecles, theyre the poor man's bazooka and you can hit targets 2000 yards away (thats about whats considered "effective range" on these rifles) and thats why its such a great rifle millitarily speaking. Its the ultimate weapon of war. In kosovo, 50 or so of these rifles got in the hands of the albanians and played a significant role in the war there.

Each family should have a .50. Learn your wife to shoot and handle a .50, she'll be an excellent sniper. Men should focus on close-combat. I would say sniping is the perfect combat-role for women, they can be at a safe distance from the target with a .50 or give you cover-fire when you engage the enemy if youre family are threatened.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: Tsul777 on December 26, 2009, 01:58:27 am
Couldn't help it!!

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/johntsul/Since_1492_homeland_security.jpg)

Merry Merry!
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: BlackPowderBill on December 29, 2009, 11:01:46 am
Thanks for the link.  That helps.  It seems that buck-shot would be ideal for home defense (short-range).

birdshot more pellets and it will cut through a 2" board at 20 feet.
Title: Re: GUN SHOPPING
Post by: VulpesVafrae on December 29, 2009, 01:25:16 pm
No way on birdshot, yes it can kill, but I wouldn't rely on it. Remember that guy cheney shot? Its like shooting a bunch of low power .22s compared to shooting a bunch of .45s. But its good to carry some bird shots around because it makes your SHTF gun more versatile. Allows you to easily get small game in a survival situation.