PrisonPlanet Forum

9/11/2001 Attacks Were An Inside Job => Faux Controversies and Case Studies => Topic started by: thatgrownman on August 03, 2008, 09:25:37 pm

Title: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: thatgrownman on August 03, 2008, 09:25:37 pm
wearechangecolorado.org (http://wearechangecolorado.org)

NO PLANER COINTELPRO Operation Becoming Transparent
Morgan Rose
WeAreChangeColorado
8/1/08

COINTELPRO, an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program, was a series of
covert operations conducted by the FBI starting in the mid 50’s and
continuing until 1976 when it was exposed by the investigations The Church
Committee. One of the primary methods of COINTELPRO consisted of forging
pseudo-movement groups as a means of conducting Psychological Warfare
operations to spread disinformation, disrupt, and divide existing
movements.  These ‘psy-ops’ tended to foment suspicions among the targeted
movements and try to dissuade sympathies from people outside the targeted
movement.
 
Today, COINTELPRO has reared its ugly head again, with infiltrations
popping up everywhere from Anti-War activism groups to peaceful gun owners
and militias. Provocations have become more and more conspicuous to the
public as the Seattle World Trade Organization protests and Ontario Security
and Prosperity Partnership protests successfully exposed provocateur
operations.  Of course, something as dangerous to the establishment *body
politic* as 9/11 has not been without its alleged incidents of COINTELPRO
action. Allegations of government disinformation have been swirling around
certain figures in the movement, such as former Bush Administration official
Morgan Reynolds, who has recently proposed that “no planes hit the World
Trade Center”, has alleged “TV Fakery”, and submitted that the towers were
brought down by “Directed Energy Weapons” a.k.a. “Laser Beams”.
 
While the government has spent innumerable resources trying to contradict
eyewitness statements regarding reported explosions in the towers, Morgan
Reynolds and his “mockingbirds” expect the 9/11 truth movement to put their
energy into further contradicting even more numerous eyewitness statements .
See a problem here?
 
Typical of the above outlined methods, “No Planers” have become a
pseudo-movement, adding lunacy, deception, and division to the legitimate
questions emanating from 9/11 families, first responders, government
officials, intelligence experts, scientists, engineers, architects,
academics, entertainment personalities, and so many others.
 
Perhaps the more visible purveyors of this pseudo-movement are supported by
Paula Gloria’s “Concordia Foundation”. The “Concordia Foundation” claims 501
(c) 3, or “nonprofit” status,  However, recent investigations conducted by
concerned donors have uncovered that her “foundation” does not retain
“nonprofit” status with the IRS.  In fact, more rigorous  inquires have
obtained that no records of the “Concordia Foundation” even exist in its
home state of New York. Funding of Paula Gloria’s “foundation” originates
solely from an information technology firm, Bit By Bit Computer Consultants.
“Donations” to the “Concordia Foundation” are actually billed directly to
Bit By Bit. The apparent fraud has appropriately prompted multiple
complaints with the FTC and IRS.
 
Bit By Bit, and its subsidiary 3BDigital, admittedly list among their
portfolio Bloomberg LLC, Chase Bank, The National Football League,
Citigroup, and The National Security Council.  3BDigital boasts to have
partnerships with Nokia, Cisco Systems, IBM, Compaq, Microsoft, Goldman
Sachs, and Level (3) Communications. Level (3) Communications, a defense
contractor doing business, primarily, with US and UK interests, is the
developer of the WESCAM system said to be the delivery mechanism for the
supposed “TV Fakery”. Of course this is nonsense, but it is fascinating that
these harlequins would incorporate their partnerships into their own
theories.
 
The “Concordia Foundation” numbers among its surrogates Nico Haupt,” a man
who exhibits *prima facie *schizophrenic behavior. Allegations  of
COINTELPRO surrounding Haupt have, in the past, seemed to be justified.
WeAreChange recently had two unprovoked incidents with Haupt, where he
assaulted the groups members, only to be ignored by onlooking NYPD.
 
Haupt continuously spreads disinformation, even abject lies, surrounding
the 9/11 truth movement. From calling legitimate 9/11 truthers “Plane
Huggers”, to claiming “Alex Jones works for ABC” and is “covering up for the
media”, Haupt’s tactics and behavior exhibit classic COINTELPRO methods.
Haupt even advocates “waterboarding Plane Huggers”.
 
So a “foundation” with intimate ties to international defense contractors,
major Wall Street banks, prominent telecommunications firms, and The
National Security council is a driving force behind the “No Plane”
pseudo-movement?
 
The information promulgated by Paula Gloria, Nico Haupt, Morgan Reynolds,
and others is clearly suspect in light of these new revelations. Whereas,
before, all of the speculation regarding “No Plane” theories were simply
diffused by logic and common sense, now we see that something much more
sinister is at play. The divide and conquer tactics employed by these clowns
has warranted past allegations of COINTELPRO. Today, the charade has been
fully exposed: the pyschological warfare, the subliminals, the allegations
of ‘cover-up’ within the movement, the show on the Howard Stern Channel.
Although these revelations should prompt further investigation, it certainly
begs the question: does it get any more transparent?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: WACCster on August 04, 2008, 12:30:31 am
 ;)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: PhilipDru on August 10, 2008, 02:17:23 am
Nice article Morgan, thanks.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: RonPaulRocks on August 10, 2008, 12:46:42 pm
We all knew the 'no planers' were a cointelpro op but now we got some hard evidence.  Their operations are so blatantly obvious when you look at what they are saying and how they are saying it.  Thank you for this article, BRAVO!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: GoingEtheric on August 10, 2008, 12:52:46 pm
nice post
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on March 08, 2009, 11:30:56 am
Excellent exposure of the disinfo artists and their connections!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: TheGoodFight1984 on March 08, 2009, 08:43:49 pm
Great stuff, wondered how long it would be before something along these lines came out of the woodwork.

Anyone with even a qaurter-brain knows all the hoopty ace baker crap is just that, maybe this will arouse the sense in some to come out of the no-plane delusion..

nose in, nose out. cointelpro in, cointelpro out.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: donnay on March 08, 2009, 09:08:27 pm
Excellent information!!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: RonPaulRocks on March 09, 2009, 10:45:52 pm
No planers are all disinfo period.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: New World Hitler on March 29, 2009, 04:19:51 pm
Who are, "We Are Change Colorado?"
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Sensi Dave on April 12, 2009, 03:04:31 am
Has anyone seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5i07-kHgww) though? Why are there multiple versions of this plane crash video that was shown on tv that day with varrying audio? I used to think the no plane theory was disinfo until I saw this. It still seems incredible that the planes would have been faked given the supposed large amount of witnesses but why would they have to manufacture or at least edit a crash video rather than just show real/unaltered video? I'm aware of the irradic and strange behavior of many people in the no plane faction of the movement but I find that somewhat irrelevent.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on April 12, 2009, 03:13:13 am
I enjoy this forum and there is a tremendous amout of knowledge but I dislike how people who even investigate no planes get jumped on and ridiculued
I am still unsure of what to think of this, and does it really matter?  Not really, either way 9/11 was still an inside job.  But it is definatly interesting, the clip Sensi Dave put is interesting, and especially the nose out clips.  Most people attack the people talking about no planes rather then attack the claims.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2009, 08:19:47 am
Who are, "We Are Change Colorado?"

Some damn fine patriots that I am honored to call fellow Americans.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2009, 08:22:39 am
Has anyone seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5i07-kHgww) though? Why are there multiple versions of this plane crash video that was shown on tv that day with varrying audio? I used to think the no plane theory was disinfo until I saw this. It still seems incredible that the planes would have been faked given the supposed large amount of witnesses but why would they have to manufacture or at least edit a crash video rather than just show real/unaltered video? I'm aware of the irradic and strange behavior of many people in the no plane faction of the movement but I find that somewhat irrelevent.

Yeah that video which has not been peer reviewed may be interesting but who the hell cares?  Do you honestly believe that the video you mentioned will help wake up more people than this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6DQjBfbn24
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2009, 08:27:09 am
I enjoy this forum and there is a tremendous amout of knowledge but I dislike how people who even investigate no planes get jumped on and ridiculued
I am still unsure of what to think of this, and does it really matter?  Not really, either way 9/11 was still an inside job.  But it is definatly interesting, the clip Sensi Dave put is interesting, and especially the nose out clips.  Most people attack the people talking about no planes rather then attack the claims.


Ummm...

I attack the claim...there were planes.  Peopl I know saw them.  One person I know told me about the second plane hitting the World Trade Center over the phone as it was hitting the World Trade Center. Then the phone went dead and http protocol was severly restricted.  I would expect the phones/internet to be restricted during the next Rothschild/Rockefeller false flag attack.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Southern Patriot on April 12, 2009, 10:03:19 am
Quote
Ummm...

I attack the claim...there were planes.  Peopl I know saw them.  One person I know told me about the second plane hitting the World Trade Center over the phone as it was hitting the World Trade Center. Then the phone went dead and http protocol was severly restricted.  I would expect the phones/internet to be restricted during the next Rothschild/Rockefeller false flag attack.

I have to agree with this. There is no way to refute that planes hit the towers. There were far too many witnesses to the events in New York to propose some ludicrous theory about tv fakery. It is obviously a cointelpro attempt to dive, conquer, distract, and discredit the truth movement. The question that just wont go away though is where are the airplane parts? I can understand not finding much at the WTC since even the concrete and steel of the towers were pulverized to dust. The eyewhitness accounts of explosives in the building really needs to be investigated.

I do also half way agree with the "no planers" though. There is not a shred of evidence that a plane hit the pentagon. The hole in the side of the building was entirely too small to fit a plane before the collapse and the lawn wasnt even disturbed. Also, the maneuver the plane pulls off in the offical story is physically impossible. The plane would have been pulling about 8 g's in the tight circle and rapid decent. It would be difficult to pull that maneuver off in a fighter let alone a passenger liner. If the government retains as much video as they say they do, why not release it to silence the critics? Also, check this out   http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/pentagon.swf It is a very interesting and short video. And this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsDEA77dgaU&feature=related You can see that even after the collapse of the e-ring that the damage area still wasnt large enough to swallow a 757 without shearing off the wings. Where are the wings and engines?
Flight 93 is another mystery. Shot down? Crashed? Brought down by the passengers? http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight93.png That is the passenger and seat list for 93. Wh was the plane so light? A coast to coast flight with only 44 people on board passengers and crew? I have been bumped from flights because they get scrapped for underbooking like this and placed on another flight with more passengers. Why werent the passengers of 93 bumped or another flight bumped to fill the plane?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on April 12, 2009, 01:53:00 pm
Sorry I should have been clear and stated not that no planes hit but possibly an aircraft which wasn't a 747.  Many eyewitness reports state seeing a small passenger aircraft.
The nose out footage people!!! Please debunk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pQ5PWAdrMc
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Sensi Dave on April 12, 2009, 04:35:04 pm
Yeah that video which has not been peer reviewed may be interesting but who the hell cares?  Do you honestly believe that the video you mentioned will help wake up more people than this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6DQjBfbn24

I care because it's part of what happened on 9/11 and part of the conspiracy. The only peer review that's needed is to obtain the original footage and compare it to the video to make sure that it's geniune, which I'm confident that it is. If we care about about the truth we should evaluate all evidence regardless where it leads, even if the conclusions it leads to seem extraordinary or are outside of our belief systems. Or even if we don't like the personalities of some of the people that are presenting it.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: jimd3100 on April 12, 2009, 07:58:34 pm
I enjoy this forum and there is a tremendous amout of knowledge but I dislike how people who even investigate no planes get jumped on and ridiculued
I am still unsure of what to think of this, and does it really matter?  Not really, either way 9/11 was still an inside job.  But it is definatly interesting, the clip Sensi Dave put is interesting, and especially the nose out clips.  Most people attack the people talking about no planes rather then attack the claims.
Here we have 9/11falseflag making the arguement that he "dislikes" how those that "investigate" no planes are ridiculed. Meaning they are serious researchers who have something constructive to offer. He also makes the claim that it really doesn't matter since no planners also believe it's an "inside job" so we are all on the same side essentially.

Then we have Patriot0420 claiming that ok...planes hit the towers, but no planners have a point. It's clear that no plane hit the pentagon nor crashed in Pennalvania. Which is what I've been trying to tell you since day 1....that the no plane cointel garbage started at the pentagon. You pentagon no planners shouldn't be congratualting yourselves on not falling for the no plane at the WTC garbage. You fell for the no plane at the Pentagon garbage.


I do also half way agree with the "no planers" though. There is not a shred of evidence that a plane hit the pentagon. The hole in the side of the building was entirely too small to fit a plane before the collapse and the lawn wasnt even disturbed. Also, the maneuver the plane pulls off in the offical story is physically impossible. The plane would have been pulling about 8 g's in the tight circle and rapid decent. It would be difficult to pull that maneuver off in a fighter let alone a passenger liner. If the government retains as much video as they say they do, why not release it to silence the critics?

Then 9/11falseflag seems to be a confused no planner when he says...
Sorry I should have been clear and stated not that no planes hit but possibly an aircraft which wasn't a 747.  Many eyewitness reports state seeing a small passenger aircraft.
The nose out footage people!!! Please debunk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pQ5PWAdrMc

If I had to be stranded on an island with either a bunch of debunkers or a bunch of no planners I'd chose debunkers in a second. No Planners are a cancer on the truth movement and deserve to be ridiculed and shunned.

If I'm going to waste my time on this, then I will throw in the occasional insult. Why? Because I find your no plane stupid garbage to have been incredibly insulting to this movement.

Sorry I should have been clear and stated not that no planes hit but possibly an aircraft which wasn't a 747.  Many eyewitness reports state seeing a small passenger aircraft.
The nose out footage people!!! Please debunk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pQ5PWAdrMc

There is no nose out sherlock. It's debris. And stop being dishonest. "Many witnesses reports state seeing a small passenger aircraft". Define Many. How about almost none? Now debunk this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyqo4oh-AzU

And debunk this.....Notice the guy in the tie and white shirt? His name is Chief Joe Pfieffer. His brother who is also a firefighter will be dead 2 hours after this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNw0jOhVJ3A


Firehouse: Did you hear the plane come over or did you see it?
Pfeifer: Yes, we were standing in the street. The gas leaks all over and then we hear a plane going over, a very loud plane, which you never hear in Manhattan. We all look up and we see this commercial airline flying by very low. We follow it and it goes right into the Trade Center. You could see it didn't veer off. It appeared to aim at the Trade Center, smashed into the upper floors, created a big fireball and then disappeared into the building.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/pfiefer.html

Q. Your name, sir?
A. Joseph Pfeifer, Battalion Chief, Battalion 1.
Q. Sir, on September 11, 2001, could you tell me
the events that took place that day?
A. Okay. I was working the night before in the
1st Battalion, and sometime about 8:15 or so in the
morning we got a call to Lispenard and Church for a
gas leak in the street. We were there for a while
checking on the gas leak, and then we heard the loud
roar of the plane come over, and we turned around and
we looked and we saw the plane coming down, heading
south towards the Trade Center, and made a direct hit
on the Trade Center.
Q. You actually saw it hit?
A. I saw it hit. Within about ten seconds after
that or so I gave the first report on the radio and
transmitted a second alarm for a plane
into the Trade
Center, and then shortly after that, the units I was
with, I told them all to start in to the Trade Center,
and shortly after that I found a radio to transmit the
third alarm. I told the dispatcher this was a direct
attack on the Trade Center

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110138.PDF

Not one of you mentally challenged no planners care to explain why we all see a passenger jet fly into the building and why Chief Pfieffer says he saw a passenger jet fly into the building. Now you either have to say "he was mistaken. and so are all of us", or you can claim "he's in on it". How about this?....perhaps a passenger jet flew into the building? It's 2009 now and you no plane retards still haven't figured out that on 9/11 planes flew into buildings, and we are supposed to take you seriously, and waste time on this stupid BS with all the other REAL evidence we have?

You no planners evidently still haven't figured out that you are not helping 9/11 truth in any way. You are hurting the movement with this stupidity.

Moving on to Patriot0420 who exemplifies a typical pentagon no planner, which is the genesis of the no plane garbage...


I do also half way agree with the "no planers" though. There is not a shred of evidence that a plane hit the pentagon.

Actually there is not a shred of evidence that anything other than a plane hit the pentagon.


Quote
The hole in the side of the building was entirely too small to fit a plane before the collapse and the lawn wasnt even disturbed.

The plane didn't hit the lawn, it flew into the building. On 9/11 planes flew into buildings.
This hole was caused by a plane...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/wtcnorthhole.jpg)

As you know, we don't have that at the pentagon, just a small hole..
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/bmag1963/Pentagon911Hole-2.png)

But take away the water being sprayed and notice what the damage really is...the first floor is gone, which might explain why the building collapsed down ya think?
(http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/imgs/hole11.jpg)


 
Quote
Also, the maneuver the plane pulls off in the offical story is physically impossible. The plane would have been pulling about 8 g's in the tight circle and rapid decent. It would be difficult to pull that maneuver off in a fighter let alone a passenger liner. If the government retains as much video as they say they do, why not release it to silence the critics?

You can stop being dishonest as well. If the Government released footage of a passenger jet hitting the pentagon it would not "silence critics" like yourself. You'd claim it was fake. Why don't you tell the forum exactly what footage you want released?
 

 
Quote
Where are the wings and engines?

This looks like an engine to me. What does it look like to you?
(http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/diffuser1.jpg)



Quote
Flight 93 is another mystery. Shot down? Crashed? Brought down by the passengers? http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight93.png That is the passenger and seat list for 93. Wh was the plane so light? A coast to coast flight with only 44 people on board passengers and crew? I have been bumped from flights because they get scrapped for underbooking like this and placed on another flight with more passengers. Why werent the passengers of 93 bumped or another flight bumped to fill the plane?

All the flights on 9/11 had a light passenger load. That would make things easier for the hijackers wouldn't it? Not having any passengers would be rather suspiscious so you have to have some. And all the planes did have some. But no plane in shanksville? Well, tell that to Wally Miller the local coroner who was there and saw body and plane parts....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2456935081384261617&hl=en

I guess if we want to keep this no plane stupidity going we'll have to call him a lier. We should also accuse Lloyd England the old cab driver who was nearly killed by a flying lightpole that he claims was knocked over by a passenger jet a lier too. Better yet, we will have to claim this guy is "in on it". Could you please tell the forum why that is helpfull for the 9/11 truth movement? Because now I'm going to give examples of how no planners "help" the truth movement by turning it into a lie movement. Would you no planners explain to the forum how it is helpfull to the truth movement to be a lie movement in order to support your no plane stupidity?

Here is a witness to the pentagon attack. Obviously it was a missile that hit, according to "the truth movement".(that no planners are attempting to hijack)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5116401435287794510&hl=en

Then when it comes out that he actually witnessed a plane hit, the "truth movement" claims he changed his story....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6663668989978697648&hl=en

Now for the truth. You no plane retarded dishonest f**ktards are lieing pieces of crap, who will stoop to anything to keep your BS alive. He never changed his story and never claimed a missile hit.....the unedited interview before No plane BS artists edited his remarks....
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1jqaz_pentagon-eyewitness-mike-walter_news

And that in a nutshell is what No Plane BS is based on. Lies.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Southern Patriot on April 12, 2009, 09:15:05 pm
Wow...You seem to have anger issues. I try to look at things from every angle. If a plane hit the pentagon then praise Jesus and release one of the 20 damn videos of it. The video I want to see is the video of what happened. I could give a shit if it was a plane, missle, or your moms ass for that matter. It was a false flag plain and simple. Call me a f**ktard? Thats really positive. Im glad you are so absolutely sure of everything that happened. Maybee you can release your own report and we can finally lay the truth movement to rest because now we will all know what you do all mighty moderator. By the way, check out the d, c, and b rings of the pentagon with their nice neat circular holes. People have the God given right to think whatever they want after weighing the evidence at hand. Go file some foia requests like I have a hundred times since I got out of the Army and then ask why you get denied every time. Go read northwoods. I was 96B (intelligence analyst) in the Army and worked on finding terrorists only to get shut down in 1999 and 2000. Ive seen the documents and scenarios they "planned for". Keep getting all your information from google and picking on message board posters. That will surely get the truth out there.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: jimd3100 on April 12, 2009, 09:43:58 pm
Quote
Wow...You seem to have anger issues.
Not so much anger as disdain.


Quote
I try to look at things from every angle. If a plane hit the pentagon then praise Jesus and release one of the 20 damn videos of it.
There are 20 videos of it? I wasn't aware of that.


Quote
The video I want to see is the video of what happened. I could give a shit if it was a plane, missle, or your moms ass for that matter.
Well, if they have a video of my moms ass hitting the pentagon then I will be the one screaming it's fake.


Quote
It was a false flag plain and simple. Call me a f**ktard? Thats really positive. Im glad you are so absolutely sure of everything that happened. Maybee you can release your own report and we can finally lay the truth movement to rest because now we will all know what you do all mighty moderator. By the way, check out the d, c, and b rings of the pentagon with their nice neat circular holes. People have the God given right to think whatever they want after weighing the evidence at hand.
Yea, people have the right to think whatever they want. Was that a circular hole that took out the first floor of the pentagon?


Quote
Go file some foia requests like I have a hundred times since I got out of the Army and then ask why you get denied every time.
I've been there and done that.


 
Quote
Go read northwoods.
Like I haven't?

Quote
I was 96B (intelligence analyst) in the Army and worked on finding terrorists only to get shut down in 1999 and 2000. Ive seen the documents and scenarios they "planned for".
And I was 97B counter intelligence. So?

Quote
Keep getting all your information from google and picking on message board posters. That will surely get the truth out there.
Thanks for the advice. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. If you don't want to listen to me then at least consider what Jim Hoffman has to say on the matter. He is a top notch 9/11 researcher.....
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/noplane/index.html
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on April 12, 2009, 09:54:00 pm
You'll never get me to believe that a jumbo jet airliner crashed into the Pentagon.  I've heard far too much pilot testimony saying that would be an impossible maneuver; not to mention the G forces sustained from a descent of that magnitude would've ripped a Jumbo jet into pieces - end of story as far as I'm concerned.

What did hit the Pentagon?  My guess is some kind of missile disguised as a military jet.

As far as the WTC towers go - I think it's pretty obvious that the flight that got "shot down over Pennsylvania" which we know for fact courtesy of that blathering idiot Rumsfeld- was intended for building 7.

the first two towers I'm torn on, there is lots of eye witness testimony that says people, and I quote, "thought they saw a missile."

What does that mean?

Not to mention that there are dozens of news clips that I've seen that have been obvious forgeries to hide the imploding of the towers as well as obscure any clear shot of the planes hitting the tower.



Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Sensi Dave on April 12, 2009, 11:18:18 pm
Ummm...

I attack the claim...there were planes.  Peopl I know saw them.  One person I know told me about the second plane hitting the World Trade Center over the phone as it was hitting the World Trade Center. Then the phone went dead and http protocol was severly restricted.  I would expect the phones/internet to be restricted during the next Rothschild/Rockefeller false flag attack.

They told you about it on the phone as it happened, for real? What was the sequence of events like he was talking to you and then said "Oh my god another plane just hit" and then the phone went dead, or what? Lay it out. Cause everyone seems to 'know someone who saw the plane' but then upon scrutiny it turns out they really don't and it was someone who was watching it on a teleprompter but was in New York so they feel like they saw it or something.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2009, 06:06:32 am
They told you about it on the phone as it happened, for real? What was the sequence of events like he was talking to you and then said "Oh my god another plane just hit" and then the phone went dead, or what? Lay it out. Cause everyone seems to 'know someone who saw the plane' but then upon scrutiny it turns out they really don't and it was someone who was watching it on a teleprompter but was in New York so they feel like they saw it or something.

teleprompter? I do not think so, he was driving in a car.

Here is the deal guys...

No planers, go to another forum.  We have too much respect for the victims and their families here.  The entire no planer argument has been exposed as disinformation run by entities that do not want the truth out.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Southern Patriot on April 13, 2009, 06:58:35 am
Quote
If you don't want to listen to me then at least consider what Jim Hoffman has to say on the matter. He is a top notch 9/11 researcher.....
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/noplane/index.html

I like it...It is put together and detailed very well. I only entertain the theory because I had friends in the Pentagon, two of which died that day. When it happened, I heard from three people who all said they smelled cordite and I remember hearing someone on CNN that day saying the same thing. I have always thought that it was far too convenient for a plane to hit the accounting offices when there was an investigation into a missing two trillion dollars. Also, the maneuver just seemed impossible. I could not imagine that someone with such limited flight experience pulling it off. It really lends to the remote controll theory. Have you ever seen the pilot episode for the Lone Gunmen? It aired in March of 2001 and dealt with a plane being hijacked by remote and flown into the WTC. I have been seriously irritated by the amount of disinfo that gets peddled. We knew where Bin Ladin was and it wasn't Afghanistan either. He was in Saudi in the late 1990's then in northern Pakistan after that. I honestly don't believe he ever resided in Afghanistan to begin with. The intel we had suggested that after the Soviet conflict he only visited the region on occasion. Anyway....I'm off topic. I didn't intend to marginalize the victims or their families in any way. There were three thousand first degree murders that day and our government has not brought anyone responsible to justice. No investigation into the Saudi financing, mossad surveillance, Porter Goss, al qaeda/cia connection, ISI, SEC evidence against Enron being conveniently destroyed, etc., etc., etc.. Too many investigations that would harm members of the administration all too conveniently died that day with the victims. That is a fact even if you don't buy into any of the other theories. I think that waking people up with that information beats the hell out of any theories relating to the planes anyway.
  By the way, I'm sorry for insulting your mother too. I get a little hot headed when I feel attacked. I would be right behind you debunking that video too.LOL
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: gunDriller on April 13, 2009, 03:48:03 pm
wearechangecolorado.org (http://wearechangecolorado.org)

NO PLANER COINTELPRO Operation Becoming Transparent
Morgan Rose
WeAreChangeColorado
8/1/08

COINTELPRO, an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program, was a series of
covert operations conducted by the FBI starting in the mid 50’s and
continuing until 1976 when it was exposed by the investigations The Church
Committee. One of the primary methods of COINTELPRO consisted of forging
pseudo-movement groups as a means of conducting Psychological Warfare
operations to spread disinformation, disrupt, and divide existing
movements.  These ‘psy-ops’ tended to foment suspicions among the targeted
movements and try to dissuade sympathies from people outside the targeted
movement.
 
Today, COINTELPRO has reared its ugly head again, with infiltrations
popping up everywhere from Anti-War activism groups to peaceful gun owners
and militias. Provocations have become more and more conspicuous to the
public as the Seattle World Trade Organization protests and Ontario Security
and Prosperity Partnership protests successfully exposed provocateur
operations.  Of course, something as dangerous to the establishment *body
politic* as 9/11 has not been without its alleged incidents of COINTELPRO
action. Allegations of government disinformation have been swirling around
certain figures in the movement, such as former Bush Administration official
Morgan Reynolds, who has recently proposed that “no planes hit the World
Trade Center”, has alleged “TV Fakery”, and submitted that the towers were
brought down by “Directed Energy Weapons” a.k.a. “Laser Beams”.

I have an educational background that makes me appealing to the national security folks.  (engineering degree from a name brand university, 20+ years experience in engineering & computer graphics).  So I've had a few interviews that were quite scripted - where they make you jump through hoops, & put the pressure on to see how you respond to pressure (I thought they were fun).  I recognize scripted behavior when I see it.

My best guess about one of the main 9-11 groups on the West Coast is that it is run by the US government.  I make this judgment based on the behavior and educational background of the leaders of the group.

Once I realized I was being babysat by the US government, I left the group.

I also have a friend who was a retired sociology professor, who was also the guy who helped shred my public school history education by loaning me books about the JFK assassination, among others.  In discussing 9-11 with him, he has wondered out loud if the planes were holograms.

My response, "no f*cking way".  However, that he wondered about it doesn't mean that he's been co-opted by the government, it just indicates that he doesn't have a strong physics background.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dewk on April 13, 2009, 04:17:10 pm
     We don't know what exactly went on. I was not in New York on 9/11. I never seen anything live. Live TV is not live. I believe it was real planes and it was self inflicted wound.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Sensi Dave on April 13, 2009, 05:01:31 pm
teleprompter? I do not think so, he was driving in a car.

Here is the deal guys...

No planers, go to another forum.  We have too much respect for the victims and their families here.  The entire no planer argument has been exposed as disinformation run by entities that do not want the truth out.

So you won't even debate the issue? This is the same tactic used by people who don't want the 9/11 issue to be debated at all, & the same rhetoric about 'respect for the families'. You say that the entire argument has been exposed but you have no explanation for the news footage I pointed out of differing audio in what's supposed to be the same footage of one of the plane crashes. Like you I thought the 'no plane theory' was disinfo until I saw that and a few other things. A real researcher doesn't dismiss evidence regardless of where it leads.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: gunDriller on April 14, 2009, 10:49:55 am
Hmm.  I'm logged in, but I can't edit my last post.

My point being - in some cases people are sincerely trying to understand 9-11, and they explore the "no planes" concept.

In other cases, the "no planers" are part of the 9-11 disinfo campaign, an attempt to add 'noise' to the discussion, to make the discussion so confusing that any young person or newcomer who tries to understand 9-11 finds themself wading through so much BS that they give up.

9-11 disinfo is part of the "damage control" & perception management that are occurring, and are part of the cover-up, part of the crime itself.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Sensi Dave on April 14, 2009, 03:32:32 pm
To me it's more about the evidence than the personalities presenting it. I'm aware of some of the irradic behavior of some of the prominent no plane researchers but it really doesn't bother me that much. They have given the field of research a bad rep though, however at the same time they're the ones that first discovered a lot of this so I do appreciate them for that.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on April 14, 2009, 04:40:21 pm
Talking about 911 holograms is like telling Copernicus that maybe the world aint round it is a tetrahedron.  There were planes lets move on.

That erratic behaviour should bother you -- because it discredits the entire movement.  You appreciate them for being the first to come up with bogus tarbaby crap?? what?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Sensi Dave on April 14, 2009, 04:47:45 pm
Talking about 911 holograms is like telling Copernicus that maybe the world aint round it is a tetrahedron.  There were planes lets move on.

That erratic behaviour should bother you -- because it discredits the entire movement.  You appreciate them for being the first to come up with bogus tarbaby crap?? what?

Are you 13 years old cause you act like it? Funny how cockiness and ignorance always seem to go together. You have the same attitude and mannerisms as people who say 'tinfoil hat' and the rest of it at those who for acknowledge conspiracies in general. I've already posted a video of news footage from that day which puts the validity of the plane crash videos in serious question but instead you wanna talk about holograms, tar babies and nonsense, trying to act cool.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on April 14, 2009, 05:23:16 pm
My daughter is 13 and would miss the relevance of the "bogus tarbaby" comment as did you.  To elaborate I used the word  bogus because it is blantantly false any sentient being knows this, please refer to the extensive posts previous. The word tarbaby --- because of the nasty sticking effect it has on the Truth Movement (please note the word Truth) it's insidiously discrediting affect should be battled with any sterilizing tool at hand.  There has been numerous posts righting this misguided thought pattern to no avail and I share some of the frustration.  In some unfounded move of respect I watched your video and am completely perplexed as to the "importance" you attribute to it.  Who knows maybe there was an audio glitch during a haywire day, are you just talking about manipulation or claiming holograms -- what are you saying? 
Hope this is a cool as my last post.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: mr anderson on April 21, 2009, 09:33:29 am
A3 Skywarrior fighter jet with or without a missile attached? ? ? It's more logical than the no-plane theory at the Pentagon.

2 planes hit WTC 1 & 2, WTC 1,2 & 7 were then demolished in a controlled manner with nano thermite. WTC 7 being the only building that was demolished not to have been hit by a plane.

As for the Pennsylvania (Flight 93).....more puzzling.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Sensi Dave on April 23, 2009, 10:46:51 am
My daughter is 13 and would miss the relevance of the "bogus tarbaby" comment as did you.  To elaborate I used the word  bogus because it is blantantly false any sentient being knows this, please refer to the extensive posts previous. The word tarbaby --- because of the nasty sticking effect it has on the Truth Movement (please note the word Truth) it's insidiously discrediting affect should be battled with any sterilizing tool at hand.  There has been numerous posts righting this misguided thought pattern to no avail and I share some of the frustration.  In some unfounded move of respect I watched your video and am completely perplexed as to the "importance" you attribute to it.  Who knows maybe there was an audio glitch during a haywire day, are you just talking about manipulation or claiming holograms -- what are you saying? 
Hope this is a cool as my last post.

No it's not a glitch, there are two versions of the same video. One has the guy who's the supposed filmer, Michael Hezarkhani, who also happens to be a diamond dealer whether that's relevant or not, merely saying "Oh my god" & then the other has him saying "Oh my god, the plane hit the building. I cannot believe it" and he starts speaking at a different point of the video. Not only that but in the second version he says it ridiculously unconvincingly, like he's not actually shocked at all and is acting and doing a horrible job of it. He doesn't even say "I can't beleive it" he says "can-not" like all drawn out and monotone.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on April 23, 2009, 10:48:49 am
I'm still holding out for holograms.

(Not really - stupid bastards)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on April 23, 2009, 10:58:47 am
No it's not a glitch, there are two versions of the same video. One has the guy who's the supposed filmer, Michael Hezarkhani, who also happens to be a diamond dealer whether that's relevant or not, merely saying "Oh my god" & then the other has him saying "Oh my god, the plane hit the building. I cannot believe it" and he starts speaking at a different point of the video. Not only that but in the second version he says it ridiculously unconvincingly, like he's not actually shocked at all and is acting and doing a horrible job of it. He doesn't even say "I can't beleive it" he says "can-not" like all drawn out and monotone.

don't even get me started on the obvious fake news reporting done on 9/11.

All you have to do is watch the Main Stream Media news clips on 9/11 and the couple days after it with an objective mindset and you'll see countless forgeries.  Half of the reporters are pretending to be on the scene, while actually on bluescreen.

CNN911Fakes is a good person to look up on youtube - he has hundreds of examples of CNN caught lying about everything from location of crashes to eye witnesses who are reporters for CNN.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Sensi Dave on April 23, 2009, 11:03:05 am
Yep I'm subscribed to him. Maybe if more people here smoked a little herb once in a while they'd be more perceptive :D
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on April 23, 2009, 11:18:31 am
I enjoy this forum and there is a tremendous amout of knowledge but I dislike how people who even investigate no planes get jumped on and ridiculued

I spent years on Democratic Underground, Loose Change, Progressive Democratic and other sites I've forgotten about debating with the no-planers.

Some were people were thick and some were out and out disinfo agents.

No question.

The hologram debates were always a scream - stupid bastards.

Discussions about light theory went right over their heads, not that they were interested.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Shadowsenshi on April 23, 2009, 11:34:30 am
Is it possible, that while there where planes on that day, the footage we got to see from most sources was faked?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on April 23, 2009, 11:39:20 am
Is it possible, that while there where planes on that day, the footage we got to see from most sources was faked?


I have yet to see a single piece of faked footage.

Why would they do that if planes actually crashed into the towers?

All of the anomolies that people point out are explained by video compression, frame rate, focal length, distance and parallax, camera chip processing and in one particular case downright dishonesty by no-planers manipulating the source video material.

People just don't wanna get it.
People just don't
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 10, 2009, 07:10:37 pm
please do not mistake tv fakery, or the fact that the tv networks, norad and the ffa where all hacked that day, for "no planer bullshit"

I can prove that the news media footage is fake and so can many more, if there was actual planes or not is still full of questions, but take a look at http://www.cameraplanet.com/ (http://www.cameraplanet.com/) collection of 911 footage and ask yourself why they have all that footage...

I will say to you to be opened minded. Please do not judge me for doing my own research. I work in audio, and i have studied in the audio from the 911 broadcasts and i can say to you that it is full of glitches, edits and mistakes. that was not live and that was not the truth.

weather there was actual planes or not is a completely different theory than tv fakery. we can all see and know there were no planes at the pentagon and no plane at shanksville so why would it be so different at wtc. take a look at the people on the planes and you tell me what the chances of those people actually being on the same planes... what about the mishap with the flight manifests with regards to cnn. basically cnn asked the airlines for flight lists and they couldnt provide them. it was the fbi in the end that apparently supplied the lists, and names were added later, including the apparent terrorists.

go ahead ask your questions i have the answers i have spent the last 5 years research 911 and have probably asked them myself, and found the answers...

but please i only ask for respect and common decency and an honest objection to my logic. no low levels of communication please, i will not play a long with the adls internet task force anti 911 truth people.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 10, 2009, 09:01:12 pm
please do not mistake tv fakery, or the fact that the tv networks, norad and the ffa where all hacked that day, for "no planer bullshit"

I can prove that the news media footage is fake and so can many more, if there was actual planes or not is still full of questions, but take a look at http://www.cameraplanet.com/ (http://www.cameraplanet.com/) collection of 911 footage and ask yourself why they have all that footage...

I will say to you to be opened minded. Please do not judge me for doing my own research. I work in audio, and i have studied in the audio from the 911 broadcasts and i can say to you that it is full of glitches, edits and mistakes. that was not live and that was not the truth.

weather there was actual planes or not is a completely different theory than tv fakery. we can all see and know there were no planes at the pentagon and no plane at shanksville so why would it be so different at wtc. take a look at the people on the planes and you tell me what the chances of those people actually being on the same planes... what about the mishap with the flight manifests with regards to cnn. basically cnn asked the airlines for flight lists and they couldnt provide them. it was the fbi in the end that apparently supplied the lists, and names were added later, including the apparent terrorists.

go ahead ask your questions i have the answers i have spent the last 5 years research 911 and have probably asked them myself, and found the answers...

but please i only ask for respect and common decency and an honest objection to my logic. no low levels of communication please, i will not play a long with the adls internet task force anti 911 truth people.

Excellent post.  I like it.  Although a lot will jump on your 2 post count, and dismiss you as cointel.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 10, 2009, 09:18:26 pm
please do not mistake tv fakery, or the fact that the tv networks, norad and the ffa where all hacked that day, for "no planer bullshit"

I can prove that the news media footage is fake and so can many more, if there was actual planes or not is still full of questions, but take a look at http://www.cameraplanet.com/ (http://www.cameraplanet.com/) collection of 911 footage and ask yourself why they have all that footage...

I will say to you to be opened minded. Please do not judge me for doing my own research. I work in audio, and i have studied in the audio from the 911 broadcasts and i can say to you that it is full of glitches, edits and mistakes. that was not live and that was not the truth.

weather there was actual planes or not is a completely different theory than tv fakery. we can all see and know there were no planes at the pentagon and no plane at shanksville so why would it be so different at wtc. take a look at the people on the planes and you tell me what the chances of those people actually being on the same planes... what about the mishap with the flight manifests with regards to cnn. basically cnn asked the airlines for flight lists and they couldnt provide them. it was the fbi in the end that apparently supplied the lists, and names were added later, including the apparent terrorists.

go ahead ask your questions i have the answers i have spent the last 5 years research 911 and have probably asked them myself, and found the answers...

but please i only ask for respect and common decency and an honest objection to my logic. no low levels of communication please, i will not play a long with the adls internet task force anti 911 truth people.

Okay - you have 15 minutes of my time to make a solid point
make it concise and coherent --- I am predisposed to sensible vetted qualified conjecture
you bring up jokers like Fetzer, Wood and other fools please show yourself the door before it catches you in the ass
oh yeah september clues is junk
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 11, 2009, 03:20:35 pm
Quote
I have yet to see a single piece of faked footage.

Why would they do that if planes actually crashed into the towers?

All of the anomolies that people point out are explained by video compression, frame rate, focal length, distance and parallax, camera chip processing and in one particular case downright dishonesty by no-planers manipulating the source video material.

People just don't wanna get it.
People just don't

All of the anomalies are not explained by what you have stated. I would like to know your sources on this statement, is it through your own research or is it an article, could i please have the url. It is not faked footage as much as it is manipulated footage, footage that is controlled completely just as it would be if there was a big story happening.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 11, 2009, 04:49:16 pm
All of the anomalies are not explained by what you have stated. I would like to know your sources on this statement, is it through your own research or is it an article, could i please have the url. It is not faked footage as much as it is manipulated footage, footage that is controlled completely just as it would be if there was a big story happening.

There are at least 50 videos in the public domain of the crashes and possibly a few more that haven't seen the light yet.

Why would they fake anything when there was an unknown number of people watching with an unknown number of cameras and videos.

Why would they stage a SECOND impact 20 minutes later when they knew that thousands would be watching because of the first.

There is no way that they could control the images or even think they could control the images if it was faked.

No-planers and faker-videoers need to think straight.

Actually many of them are suspected COINTELPRO.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 11, 2009, 04:55:00 pm
vok:

First, I want to preface this by saying that I do not believe in NPT [No Plane Theory].

It is my belief that military aircraft and/or missiles hit the twin towers on 9/11 and the MSM [Main Stream Media] covered it up by splicing in footage of civilian airliners.


*AIRPLANE PARTS*



Claim: Airplane wreckage proves planes hit the towers.

FACT: The available evidence does not add up.

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/plane-parts-scaffolding.jpg)

As you can clearly see, these engine parts did NOT come from a Boeing 767 aircraft.  To me, it looks like the engine for a cruise missile, seen here:

(http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/700kg-turbofan-engine.jpg)


*TV NETWORKS & MILITARY PSYOPS CONNECTION*



Claim: Just the idea the TV Networks and military would work together to deceive the public is wacky cookoo!

FACT: The TV Networks/Military/PSYOPS connection was reported by the media before 9/11.

*TV-FAKERY*


Claim: Just the idea the TV Networks would broadcast fake footage is nutcase kooky!

FACT: This technology was reported in the media before 9/11 as being available by TV Networks and the military for the purpose of altering world politics.

Isaac Newton’s Third Law of Motion: “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.”

High school physics states that the force an airplane exerts on a building is the same as the force a building exerts on an airplane.  Now check out these images, and ask yourself, do they match up with Newton's third law of motion?

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/steel-concrete-aluminum-plastic.jpg)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/plane-cartoon-cutouts.jpg)

Even Peter Jennings knew the 9/11 airplane video was fake. Note his nervousness and word fumbling when ABC plays this amateur clip back in slow motion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCDu2V3yjS4

As retired Aerospace Engineer Joseph Keith says: "The video is phony because airliners don’t meld into steel and concrete buildings, they crash against them!"

http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911&..._planer_resigns

Probably the most damning evidence can be seen with Fox 5's infamous "Nose out" video
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/fox5jo0.gif)

This is my personal favorite.  Check out CNN's cartoon plane  ;D
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/hezarkhanicumv3.gif)

A real plane would crash against the building.  The tail should of ripped off, not melted into the building

*DEBUNKED?*



Claim: TV-Fakery has been debunked time and time again.

FACT:The violation of Newton’s Laws of Motion has never been explained.

Several “papers” claiming to debunk TV-Fakery have surfaced. However, not one of them approaches the obvious violation of Newton’s Laws regarding an aluminum airplane with a plastic nosecone gliding through a steel/concrete building. Instead, these strawman papers attempt to discredit TV-Fakery by “explaining away” a few points. Neither Steven Jones nor anyone in his team has ever addressed Newton’s Laws as it applies to TV-Fakery. (I wonder why…)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 11, 2009, 04:58:56 pm
NO WAY!

The impacts were 20 minutes apart with thousands watching the second.

No way could they have planned to control the images or even thought they could.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 11, 2009, 05:01:04 pm
NO WAY!

The impacts were 20 minutes apart with thousands watching the second.

No way could they have planned to control the images or even thought they could.

video of the plane strikes didn't emerge until 2 or 3 days after 9/11.  The only image shown on TV were 2 different takes of the 2nd plane strike and the same image of a smoldering WTC building.

The video we saw was heavily edited and dubbed to show us what the illuminati wanted us to see
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 11, 2009, 05:08:56 pm
NO WAY!

Think man
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 11, 2009, 05:14:52 pm
Put down the Hindu Kush for a moment.
Your first point is how the plane parts are found under scaffolding.  These planes were moving at high speeds horizontally -- this isnt just a gravity circumstance.  Trajectory comes into play. 
What is the law of motion that is broken and prove it.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 11, 2009, 06:00:51 pm
Quote
There are at least 50 videos in the public domain of the crashes and possibly a few more that haven't seen the light yet.

Why would they fake anything when there was an unknown number of people watching with an unknown number of cameras and videos.

Why would they stage a SECOND impact 20 minutes later when they knew that thousands would be watching because of the first.

There is no way that they could control the images or even think they could control the images if it was faked.

No-planers and faker-videoers need to think straight.

Actually many of them are suspected COINTELPRO.

i was expecting that question. Ok let me ask you a quick question, where is the footage from pentagon ? why would they not release all the footage to show once and for all what happened. would solve a lot of time for us discussing it... so then the question is not if they would do it or not. the question is how would they be able to do it, as you have just said, the second impact would have had 1000s of cameras pointed at it. remember now the first impact was apparently only caught by one camera and that came out weeks afterwards. how would they do it ? they would only need to collect the footage that would either show, no plane or something else hitting the building or the building just blowing up. any other footage would not be required to be collected, that narrows down the amount of footage to just the footage that caught the impact/explosion. if the fbi was collecting footage at the pentagon, it would not be such a task to collect footage from people that contacted the authorities in ny. i would like to think that someone would have caught the impacts/explosions and NOT sent the footage anywhere and kept it and released it onto the internet, but then you have said that you have seen 50 shots of the impacts. remember we only had two that were apparently live and the rest came after the initial time of impact. some on the day some weeks later. some months, some even years. i have collected over the years everything single video that i could find of the 911 day. i would disagree with you by saying that there are not 50 shots of the plane impacting. there is less. out of over 8000 pictures i have of the day, i have 3 photos of the plane impact.  then we have some controversy that goes along with the footage as well. i have heard the audio from the phone calls where someone contact the people who took the famous plane shots. they were not all forthcoming and some talk about how they handed the footage over to the media. there was the infamous what we saw by Bri and Bob that came out years after 911. the audio in the footage is extremely suspect just like a lot of the other footage.
a big argument against would be, if there where so many cameras catching the 2nd impact, then where is all the footage. why is it that documentaries that come out years afterwards, even mainstream propaganda documentaries show the same footage that i have in my collection. any new footage i notice it immediatly, there is that little.

they would fake it because it is easier to fake it than it is get actual people to hijack planes and then pilot them into the wtc towers. you can use this logic when you step outside the mainstream story. you see when you consider the controlled demo that at least we can all agree on. ;) then you have to know that by default the official story is flawed.

they had to have two impacts because there was two towers, (actually three and the fact that it was not hit by a "plane" is a major point in the case), two controlled demos.

take that into consideration before throwing the theory into loony land or worst, co intel pro territory.

please i notice you are resorting to ad hominem and mockery and we are just getting started. i know this is an old debate for some but hopefully i can make you think about it a little bit differently.

(sorry that i miss words some times i just type fast and don't feel the need to proof read the post at this time.) i have word dyslexia haha
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 12, 2009, 02:17:50 am
i was expecting that question. Ok let me ask you a quick question, where is the footage from pentagon ?

Hey I was talking about the twin towers and now you want to change the subject?

Jeeze.

Let's stick with this one for a while.

If you were going to fake TWO attacks on the WTC would you stage them 20 minutes apart, the second one with thousands of people focused on the buildings because of the first, with an unknown number of recording devices?

NYC is one of the tourist hot spots of the world, the WTC was one of the great tourist sights of the world - cameras and videos everywhere.

I hate lame brain no-planers with a passion.

They are so f*cked up in their thinking it's untrue.

Actually all this sh*t is pure COINTELPRO designed to bury the real 9/11 issues.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Mike Philbin on June 12, 2009, 02:24:25 am
You'll never get me to believe that a jumbo jet airliner crashed into the Pentagon.  I've heard far too much pilot testimony saying that would be an impossible maneuver; not to mention the G forces sustained from a descent of that magnitude would've ripped a Jumbo jet into pieces - end of story as far as I'm concerned.

In fact, PILOTS FOR 911 TRUTH can't manually fly their simulator planes into the WTC at 480 knots ... something called Dutch Roll always gets in the way. Unless you are flying that baby into a WTC homing beacon via auto piloto.

NO PLANERS, take a hike.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 12, 2009, 02:34:01 am
...they would only need to collect the footage that would either show, no plane or something else hitting the building or the building just blowing up. any other footage would not be required to be collected, that narrows down the amount of footage to just the footage that caught the impact/explosion....

Total and utter b*llocks.

"..they would only.." .. sounds so simple!

Just how would they collect all these images from every single person that had a camera or camcorder out there? How would they know where to find them? Perhaps they used the men in black.

Would people be required to hand in their memory cards or would a copy of the file suffice?

Wouldn't it have been easier for the fakers to plan the attacks simultaneously so that it wouldn't even be an issue?

What faker in his right mind would fake a SECOND attack 20 minutes after the first when thousands would be watching?

Wouldn't it be easier to just crash planes into the building?

Dumb and f*cking dumber.

Go away with your COINTELPRO nonsense and go stick where your holograms where they don't shine.

Can you tell I'm angry?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on June 12, 2009, 04:36:21 am
Damn... again those idiot noplaners who first claim they dont believe the noplane BS but then come with the same arguments...  nose out video eh? I dont see a nose coming out only lots of debris. And if you think its the layer of the approaching plane that was forgot to be cut off then you are just retarded.

Also why isnt it possible for a plane that is made out of aliminum and crashing at very high speed into the towers to cut through the first steel beams and then just get shredded and pressed into the space between the steel like... OMFG windows! between the floor steelbeams and why the hell should the tail have been ripped off? Why!?!? Its like first graders trying to explain events with no clue about physics.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 12, 2009, 07:11:21 am
Voskhod3 : i do not like your attitude.

your logic against no planers is the whole, "why would they do it", have you seen what happened that day, they controlled demo;ed three buildings and then claimed they collapsed and your argument is "why would they do it". i mean come on. just step back and process the information for a few days before posting with all that anger.

there are other things to consider. the fact that when the media went to the airport to see speak to the relatives that were going to pickup the people on the planes to see them grieving and such, they were suprised to find that there was no one actually waiting for the passengers.

one of the planes was spotted in an airport, and this is recorded.

Why you have to resort to calling me co intel pro all the time i do not understand. from my perspective it looks like you are the co intel pro pointing fingers, getting angry, being rude.

and no it wouldn't be easier to crash the planes into the building, based on your last post. you didn't even read or consider what i have to say. you mind is made up, there was planes.

it your arrogance that is preventing you from accepting new theories, it requires humility to accept that you have been fooled once again. i know it was not easy for me to accept it, this is why i have spent a hell of a lot of time looking into this theory because that is what my cognitive processes required of me.

holograms theory is bullshit, dew theory is bullshit, there is your co intel pro nonsense. don't confuse sound theory and investigation with complete nonsense.
Quote
Also why isnt it possible for a plane that is made out of aliminum and crashing at very high speed into the towers to cut through the first steel beams and then just get shredded and pressed into the space between the steel like... OMFG windows! between the floor steelbeams and why the hell should the tail have been ripped off? Why!?!? Its like first graders trying to explain events with no clue about physics.

This is strange you claim we do not know physics but yet this clearly the other way around. I mean it does not take a professor in physics to see that the plane impacts and the damage do not match up. let alone the difficultly in piloting the planes, but hell now they are automated with homing beacons, i dont know where you got the evidence for that. but i guess it is easier to believe than no planes at all, i will give you that.

any more questions that you can give me that will require me to think about my theory is much appreciated as i am sure there are some that i have not asked myself. i am willing to be convinced that i am wrong. but at the moment calling me a dumb f**king co intel pro is not giving justice to the investigation of the biggest lie ever told.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 12, 2009, 07:20:59 am
Voskhod3 : i do not like your attitude.
That's too bad, I don't your no-plane crap.

Quote
your logic against no planers is the whole, "why would they do it",
No it isn't.

There is NO WAY that fakers would fake a SECOND impact 20 minutes after the first one and think they could control the images from an totally unknown number of people watching because of the first impact.

Anyone who thinks that they could is mad.

Quote
have you seen what happened that day, they controlled demo;ed three buildings and then claimed they collapsed and your argument is "why would they do it". i mean come on. just step back and process the information for a few days before posting with all that anger.
I suggest you step back and consider your insane logic which claims that ALL of the images of the impacts were controlled, just how did they carry off that little miracle? Why would they even think they could do it?

They couldn't.

Quote
Why you have to resort to calling me co intel pro all the time i do not understand.
Because this no-planes BS is created specifically to bury genuine 9/11 concerns.. everyone gets tarred with the "nutty CT" brush.

Quote
from my perspective it looks like you are the co intel pro pointing fingers, getting angry, being rude.
You got to be kidding.

This sh*t is buring real 9/11 concerns like those in "9/11: Press for Truth".

Quote
and no it wouldn't be easier to crash the planes into the building, based on your last post.
It would ABSOLUTELY be easier to crasj planes into the building then control the testimony and images of the people who saw the second crash.

Quote
you didn't even read or consider what i have to say. you mind is made up, there was planes.
Absolutely, thousands saw them and there are at least 50 VIDEOS out there of the second impact - there are NO videos out there that show a missile, hologram or any other exotic thing you want to throw into the mix.

Quote
it your arrogance that is preventing you from accepting new theories,
I am not ignorant of your COINTELPRO BS.

Stick it.

There is absolutely no way ALL the images were controlled after the event.

NO WAY!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 12, 2009, 08:09:46 am
I second that.

Sekular -- you somehow imply that the no-plane theory is some sort of valid intellectual investigation.  It holds no water and if it was a dead horse it looks ugly -- really really ugly.
Feel free to explore the 911 section of the forum which is quite rich with comprehensive info that explores this sort of nonsense as well.  It would be redundant to go over this again.
I share the frustration of those that you are shocked and annoyed with.  Picture some ancient insisting that the world was cylindrical in nature 100 years after Copernicus has proven the world is round.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 12, 2009, 08:19:03 am
Well i don't think i am mad.

the same logic you use could be said about the controlled demolitions. why would they say that they collapased when they were controlled demoilitons. anyone who thinks that they would try and get away with controlled demoilition and say it collapased would have to be mad, because that theory is bloody crazy sometimes i do think i am going crazy watching the collapse of the towers into its own foot print in under 10 secs.

so yes i am comparing the feat of that great lie to the lie of no planes.

i don't know why they would fake the media footage and attempt the massive operation that would be keeping a control on all the footage from the day. when i agree it would easier to fly remote controlled planes into the buildings. that theory however does not consider the passengers on the planes, were they being flown by an automated pilot? the fake cockpit transmissions tell otherwise on that theory.

but it appears to me that they have got away with it, as i stated in my earlier post, the footage from the day is extremely limited considering teh amount of cameras that would have been pointed at the building for the second impact.

I am just saying, that the argument of they couldn't get away with does not have much weight when considering that they have gotten away with controlled demo's right in our face...sure the logistics is astronomical to imagine, but as i stated in my earlier post i outlined how i invisioned it could have been pulled off.

now i have not mentioned the footage yet, i have been talking about no plane theory specifically here and not tv fakery, in my opinion tv fakery has been proven without a doubt. there are multiple completely obvious mistakes in teh footage that you would realy have to be trying your best to hold onto your opinions to not be convinced by them.

i am work at the moment but when i get home tonight i will upload some videos i have made pointing out the biggest mistakes in some of the plane impact shots, this is my research. so you probably have not seen these pointed out before.

There is no doubt that 911 was one massive operation, the biggest hack, the biggest logistical feat that mankind has ever done, utilizing compartmentalization, double crosses, murder, infiltration, computer hacking and advanced telecommuncation disruptions.

this was not some terrorists flying planes into towers... that at least we can all agree on.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 12, 2009, 09:18:17 am
Well i don't think i am mad.
If you insist on no-planes then you are mad or bad.

Quote
the same logic you use could be said about the controlled demolitions.
Absolutely not!

It's two different things.

Quote
so yes i am comparing the feat of that great lie to the lie of no planes.
That's a ridiculous thing to do.

Thousands saw the second impact, they are over 50 videos of it and numerous still shots. There is not one that shows anything other than a plane hitting the buildings, NOT ONE.

The could not possible control all the witnesses, they could not possibly control all the images, they couldn't possibly think they could.

The demolition is a completely different matter in terms of witnesses and images.

Quote
i don't know why they would fake the media footage and attempt the massive operation that would be keeping a control on all the footage from the day.

Here's a challenge fior you.

Tell us how they controlled ALL the images that day and why we haven't see ANY images that show something other than a plane hitting the building.

Do on... back up your BS.


Quote
but it appears to me that they have got away with it, as i stated in my earlier post, the footage from the day is extremely limited considering teh amount of cameras that would have been pointed at the building for the second impact.
What the hell are you talking about?

"considering the amount of cameras pointed at the building"... see my challenge.

TELL US HOW THEY CONTROLLED ALL THE IMAGES OR SHUT UP.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Mike Philbin on June 12, 2009, 01:03:04 pm
TELL US HOW THEY CONTROLLED ALL THE IMAGES OR SHUT UP.

Hey, they CONTROLLED ALL THE MEDIA but it is unlikely that there's a (suppressed for some reason) video of WTC 1 or 2 just blowing up, without a plane of some two-engined sort hitting. But you never know...

Nah, the no planer idea still dead as donkeys.

Dead as donkeys.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 12, 2009, 01:26:58 pm
Hey, they CONTROLLED ALL THE MEDIA

They didn't control the internet and they had NO WAY of controlling the thousands of people with all kinds of recording equipment who were looking at the towers for the second impact.

I have seen zero evidence of a missile, hologram or any or the other stupid theories being deliberately put out to drown the legitimate 9/11 issues because not a single member of the public has produced anything different to the multitude of common images that are out there.

There is no way they would fake impacts 20 minutes apart and not expect people to be watching the second impact - and filming the towers!

No plane = no brain (or more sinister).
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 12, 2009, 01:28:45 pm
The Oral Histories destroy the NPT.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 12, 2009, 01:29:52 pm
The Oral Histories destroy the NPT.

Absolutely.

They kill them 100% stone cold dead.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 12, 2009, 01:42:46 pm
like i said i work in audio, i have studied the norad tapes, fire fighters tapes they were all edited.

if you have any raw footage or radio footage or video footage from the day, please let me know.

what exactly do you mean by oral histories ?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 12, 2009, 01:44:56 pm
I read through all the oral histories and copied all the quotes of the people who saw the planes hit and the plane debris on the street. Since then I've had my computer wiped but some of the quotes are still preserved on the David Icke Forum where I started a thread about this very subject ( NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado).

From the Oral Histories -

 A - B

F. ABED

But then we are driving and now we are like,
we are about a half mile out, halfway from the World
Trade Center and we see this shiny object coming and me
and my partner are going, what the hell, what's wrong
with that plane. What is wrong with that plane. There
is something not right with that plane. And he just --
the tower blew.


S. ALTINI

As we exited the Battery Tunnel to
lower Manhattan, we proceeded to make a right
turn onto West Street where we were confronted
with a lot of debris in the street, airplane
debris, human remains and such.


C. ATTANASIO

Both towers were totally engulfed. People
were jumping out of the buildings. There was airplane
fuselage and landing gear around the site. Body parts,
victims' remains on the floor. There were some
injuries on the street. Some cars were on fire.


S. BAILEY

So they kind of had
everything blocked off and we kind of swerved around
debris from the plane, body parts pretty much
everywhere. That's the first time I've ever seen
anything like that.

At that time both buildings were going, both
planes had already hit the building, and we were just
standing there. I looked up, realized the
transmission, our transmission, from riding over the
rubble that was on the ground, the remains of the
plane, ruptured our transmission tank, so transmission
fluid was leaking.


A. BARTOLOMEY

Q. When you arrived there, did any civilians
report anything to you?
A. Yes. Numerous civilians were telling me that
a plane had hit the building. There were discrepancies
as to the type of plane. Some were saying it was a
Cessna or Leer jet type, a small jet plane. Some said
it was a large passenger plane. One person actually
said that it was like a military style plane that
actually shot missiles into the building.


J. BELL

We then hear this explosion. We hear
this explosion, and our first reaction is the
plane was lodged in the building and it exploded
or parts of it were still in the building and
that exploded.
Then people were screaming that another
plane hit. I'm like, no way, there's no way.
From where I was, I couldn't see the other tower.
I saw the one tower. I couldn't see the other
tower. They said another plane hit. So I'm
like, there's no way. More people were starting
to say it. Then it came over the radio.


E. BERNTSEN

We went up on the roof and got there just in
time to see the second plane hit the towers.


DAVID BLACKSBERG

We approached the building, and we heard some
loud noise. We felt some rumbling, so we looked up,
and there was another plane coming in.


N. BORRILLO

We were at a box for odour of gas in the
street on Church and Lispenard. We were
investigating that. We were just about ready to
take up from that box and come back when we heard
the roar of the engines of the plane. Before we
knew it, it was overhead. Within two seconds it
hit the north tower.
We all jumped on the rig. It was
Ladder 1, Engine 7, Battalion 1, Ladder 8, Engine
55, if I'm not mistaken. We headed down Canal
Street to the west side.


G. BRADY

As we were proceeding through the Battery Park
tunnel, as we came out, we saw the second plane hit the
south tower.


D. Brogan

As we were taken up from the box, we were backing
out of 19th Street, and we heard a plane go over
our heads. So me and the backup man, Jimmy
Andruzzi, looked at each other. We realized it
was low. We actually mentioned it to each other.
We continued backing out into the street. Just a
minute later our officer told us that a plane had
hit the Trade Center and that we were going on
the second alarm.


V. BUONOCORE 3

A few minutes later I was watching the
TV, and I saw the airplane coming from the right
side of the television screen, and one second
later I saw the big explosion. All the guys were
in the kitchen, and everybody was going, "Oh."
Everybody was screaming.
There were two guys outside,
Firefighter Jackson and Firefighter Zechewytz.
They were outside looking at the sky.
Firefighter Jackson said, "Wow, look at this
airplane. It's flying so low." Maybe a minute
after that they heard us screaming in the
kitchen. They ran back, and sure enough, that
was probably the plane that crashed into the twin
towers. Once that second plane hit, pretty much
I knew we were going.


R. BYRNES

I looked out the window. I could see the
smoke blowing off the World Trade Center. Several
moments later I noticed a second plane and I commented
to myself, look at this nitwit, he's so close, and
before I realized it, he had crashed into the side of
the south tower. At that time I ran downstairs. I grabbed
some fire gear.


C - D

Cain MICHAEL


So I went to my office. I got a
video camera with a couple of tapes. I set it up on
the tripod in the window facing the Trade Center
enclosing the top of -- the top, more like where the
cash area was and I started the tape and as I was
getting my fire gear ready looking out the window
again, when we saw the second plane crash into the
second tower. I left the tape running and I knew it
was not an accident, you know, that this happened.


Callan J

As I was going around the far side of the north tower,
I then saw the second plane hit the south tower.


CASALISSI J

While we were out operating, we heard the first
plane coming in. I turned around and I watched
the plane crash into the north tower ....

…. I was keeping an eye because the chauffeur was
hooking up to the standpipe. I was keeping an
eye, making sure he didn't get hit with anything.
It was at that time when I saw the
second plane hit the building. I called a
mayday. I told them the second plane hit the
south tower of the building.


Charles J

As I’m staring at the hole in tower 1, I
walked across the street, across sixth ave
to the west side of sixth avenue, to see tower 2,
and at that time tower 2 was intact. It wasn’t touched
yet, I looked down at my son and I repeated
to him I couldn’t believe what was going on,
and I told him oh, my god, and I heard people
calling oh, my god, look, look, and as I looked
up, the second plane hit the second tower
and there was a humongous fireball rolling up the side
of the building.


CHIAFARI J

We locked up the car, started heading across
Church Street when we heard a roar of a jet engine, as
if it was taking off in flight and we couldn't help but
look into the sky to see exactly what it was and yes,
it was a plane, just prior to striking the building and
the engines were revved up fully. From that you saw it
actually piercing the wall of the building with a large
amount of fire coming from it.


COOKE A

Then while I was standing in the parking lot,
that’s when I saw the plane crash into the second tower.


CRUZ A

We both hear this rumble, and I felt a vibration, we looked slightly
to the left, all of us, there’s a whole bunch of us right next to my
vehicle, and here comes this plane, a huge plane. The lady next
to me says oh my god, it’s gonna hit the building. I didn’t want to give
her false information so I said Gee, I don’t think so, well I hope
not. I mean we’re looking at it sort of in three dimensions, so
I’m thinking it’s gonna go behind the building. From where we’re
standing, it’s gonna go right behind it, but it was too big and far
too low. At that moment I said it’s gonna hit, it’s actually gonna
hit. And it hit. She screamed, she said oh my god.


CUNNIFFE S

The second plane came in. It was the
biggest noise I ever heard in my life.
Q. Did you see the plane?
A. Yeah. We saw it, we heard it, we felt
the heat from it, the debris. We ducked under a
truck, Fire Patrol 3, I believe it was, parked
right over here. Just before -- because we
started running. It was just before the
pedestrian bridge at West and Vesey. It was
parked over here. Debris was falling and people
were running and panicking.


CURRAN J

We heard the plane, we looked up. It was low enough that it
rattled the buildings we were standing at. We saw it come out from
behind the buildings and hit tower 1 and like I said, a fireball, looked
like 10 or 20 storeys big, shot out the south side of the tower and
then out the hole that the plane made going in.


D'ANGELO M

Then as I made it through traffic and I was
going over the BQE extension to get back on to the
Battery Tunnel, I looked and I saw the second plane hit
the building.


DARNOWSKI K

Right before the tolls on the Brooklyn
side heading towards Manhattan at the Battery
Tunnel, we were sitting in traffic and we watched
United Flight 175 hit tower two, which was the
south tower of the World Trade Center.


DAVIS K

As we were driving over the 59th Street
bridge, just looking out the window, we saw a plane hit
the World Trade Center, what we thought was a plane,
and out of disbelief, I was like did anybody else just
see that? They're like what? I said a plane just hit
the Trade Center. Everybody was like, oh, yeah,
right. When they looked, you could see the flames and
the smoke starting and they're like, wow, it must have
been one of the little planes. I said, no, it looked
like a jet.


DIAZ R

We started heading down there towards Manhattan. We
were at the Bruckner Interchange when I saw the second plane hit the second tower.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32324

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 12, 2009, 01:55:16 pm
so now you thing you have me cornered ?

i will look for this oral histories and have a read through it.

but i find this evidence highly questionable. this sort of evidence is easily disputed and very difficult to verify and very easy to produce. it is even possible that i could go through this "oral histories" and collect an equal amount of witness testimonies that do not mention a plane with regards to the impact. there was even witnesses on tv that did not describe a plane. i have a conference where a lady in new york speaks and says that she has been asking everyone she meets in new york if they ever say a plane, like if they actually saw it. they always end up saying they know someone that saw it, or that they saw it on tv. there was even reports in the media about it being an explosion, about it blowing out. there was even reports in the media on the day within the first 15 mins on each station of something other than a plane hitting the building. if you study the media footage you will find that there was a bit of confusion and uncertainty regarding what exactly hit the plane.

let me upload the shot of the hit that to me is one of the poorly done fake plane overlays out of the lot.

i will post the link in a bit.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 12, 2009, 01:58:05 pm
so now you thing you have me cornered ?

i will look for this oral histories and have a read through it.

but i find this evidence highly questionable. this sort of evidence is easily disputed and very difficult to verify and very easy to produce. it is even possible that i could go through this "oral histories" and collect an equal amount of witness testimonies that do not mention a plane with regards to the impact. there was even witnesses on tv that did not describe a plane. i have a conference where a lady in new york speaks and says that she has been asking everyone she meets in new york if they ever say a plane, like if they actually saw it. they always end up saying they know someone that saw it, or that they saw it on tv. there was even reports in the media about it being an explosion, about it blowing out. there was even reports in the media on the day within the first 15 mins on each station of something other than a plane hitting the building. if you study the media footage you will find that there was a bit of confusion and uncertainty regarding what exactly hit the plane.

let me upload the shot of the hit that to me is one of the poorly done fake plane overlays out of the lot.

i will post the link in a bit.

Oh just go away.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 12, 2009, 02:08:16 pm
No acutally don't go away.  I also have been investigating everything regarding 9/11 for a long time and this is a huge barrier in my research as well.
You can go away Mr England, but I have an open mind to everything and the gentleman is going to provide some evidence so I'm ready to listen

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 12, 2009, 02:08:56 pm
who did it ?


another great question that people do not have the full answer to. i say take a look at the people on the planes and who they work for.

my theory is that raytheon did the operation and finances came from certain individuals and groups, the surname star kept popping up. but due to my lack of courage to get serious about the investigation and time i have not delved deeper into this aspect. i blame the bilderberg, well at least a section of members that visit it. another thing that keeps popping up is israel, evidently it is israeli it contractor corporation that installed and supports the it for norad, faa and we have all heard of the how many "zionist?" hold positions with upper management of the media. now don't get me wrong here. it would be too easy to say that the "zionist?" attacked us and blamed the attack on their enemy in some sort of reverse psychology. to be honest i think israel is a proxy for the west, it is their foot in that region and they exploit it by creating companies from there. well that is just a thought i have had.

another theory i had was that they used the attacks to kill off a lot of competition, in the medical and energy fields, biochemists etc.

something else that i thought might have been a way they did the attack on the day, a method of compartmentalization. the politicians that knew about it, were not told the full story. they were told that they were going to crash a plane into the tower. then they went and did four missile attacks and three controlled demolitions. then they just had to pretend to not know what realy happened. i doubt politicians would have gone a long with the story if they were going to do what they do. this as well as the coincidental training exercises that were going on, on the day. created an environment of confusion for the authorities.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 12, 2009, 02:12:49 pm
No acutally don't go away.  I also have been investigating everything regarding 9/11 for a long time and this is a huge barrier in my research as well.
You can go away Mr England, but I have an open mind to everything and the gentleman is going to provide some evidence so I'm ready to listen



Gimme a break. Read the Oral Histories it will prevent you from looking foolish again.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 12, 2009, 02:25:38 pm
Gimme a break. Read the Oral Histories it will prevent you from looking foolish again.

I never said a plane did or didn't hit the buildings, but looking at the noseout footage and many others raises some concerns, so I will listen to all angles of the story.  And I did read the oral history, along with live video footage of people saying small airplane, etc etc

The first one you posted:

F. ABED

But then we are driving and now we are like,
we are about a half mile out, halfway from the World
Trade Center and we see this shiny object coming and me
and my partner are going, what the hell, what's wrong
with that plane. What is wrong with that plane. There
is something not right with that plane. And he just --
the tower blew.

So a plane most likely hit the towers but I'm having my doubts about it being a 747.  Why is that so crazy?  We can all agree a plane didn't crash in Shanksville or the Pentagon.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 12, 2009, 02:29:09 pm
ok this is a clip taken from bbc world. the footage that i say is suspect is the footage from 47 to 1:05.

http://www.udn1.com/footage from across the river.avi (http://www.udn1.com/footage from across the river.avi)

it is like one big magic trick and you are not the magician.

now remember this is just one shot of video that i think is suspect. it would take me hours of video in adobe premiere to show you all the mistakes in the media footage production, which prove that it was edited and that there was foul play with the plane aspect.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 12, 2009, 02:32:13 pm
I never said a plane did or didn't hit the buildings, but looking at the noseout footage and many others raises some concerns, so I will listen to all angles of the story.  And I did read the oral history, along with live video footage of people saying small airplane, etc etc

The first one you posted:

F. ABED

But then we are driving and now we are like,
we are about a half mile out, halfway from the World
Trade Center and we see this shiny object coming and me
and my partner are going, what the hell, what's wrong
with that plane. What is wrong with that plane. There
is something not right with that plane. And he just --
the tower blew.

So a plane most likely hit the towers but I'm having my doubts about it being a 747.  Why is that so crazy?  We can all agree a plane didn't crash in Shanksville or the Pentagon.

Sorry man I don't want to be offensive but I can't take any more of this NPT madness it's dead, the Oral Histories killed it, let it die.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 12, 2009, 02:56:00 pm
oral histories ?

transcripts ?

you have got to be joking me.

how about they release they actual interviews in full. ask yourself why they didn't release the 911 calls footage for years, ask yourself why they havn't released this footage, ask yourself why camera planet exists. ask yourself why the wnyw footage is non existant. i have in my possession two vhs rips of the an abc and a fox broadcast, they are both different to the archive.org 911 footage that was released.  they have different time stamps but so could be from a different region. let me show you a clip i made that shows the footage compared, you can see the regional sync.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 12, 2009, 03:15:17 pm
here is the regional sync, doesn't prove anything this clip, just an interesting point.

http://www.udn1.com/abc-archive.org-vhs-regional-sync-comparison.avi (http://www.udn1.com/abc-archive.org-vhs-regional-sync-comparison.avi)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on June 12, 2009, 03:28:35 pm
ok this is a clip taken from bbc world. the footage that i say is suspect is the footage from 47 to 1:05.

http://www.udn1.com/footage from across the river.avi (http://www.udn1.com/footage from across the river.avi)

it is like one big magic trick and you are not the magician.

now remember this is just one shot of video that i think is suspect. it would take me hours of video in adobe premiere to show you all the mistakes in the media footage production, which prove that it was edited and that there was foul play with the plane aspect.

Again if you dont know what you are talking about you find alot of things that arent there. I guess you dont know that when you encode a video and you have fog, smoke, etc and a small object close by it it will get swallowed by the smoke. thats why the plane suddenly seems to appear out of nowhere. you have to look at the analog source if there is one, i bet you see a plane approaching plane there. thats the problem with the noplaners... they think everything is tempered... of course it is... they use digital video for their "proof" and encoding a video already changes it drasticly. just look on youtube for those shapeshifter proof videos when suddenly eyes change when the anchor is blinking... encoding artifact nothing more... still you have idiots fall for that.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: xfahctor on June 12, 2009, 03:31:30 pm
 And yet no no-planer has yet been able to explain, is what of the thousands of witnesses on the streets, with their own eyes and camera's saw planes ?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 12, 2009, 03:57:01 pm
20 minutes apart and thousands of witnesses watching and many filming the second impact.

No planes is the most stupid f*cking disinfo out there.

You people are simply BAD!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 14, 2009, 12:21:39 pm
And yet no no-planer has yet been able to explain, is what of the thousands of witnesses on the streets, with their own eyes and camera's saw planes ?

Those people said everything from a DC9 to 747 to 737 to small plane to missile, to they didn't see anything...

so it's not like everyone said the same thing...  alot of those people were planted there like the guy that immediately knew that "the plane's fuel heated up and melted the steel and the tower just couldn't hold itself up"....

straw man
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 14, 2009, 12:24:15 pm
vok:

First, I want to preface this by saying that I do not believe in NPT [No Plane Theory].

It is my belief that military aircraft and/or missiles hit the twin towers on 9/11 and the MSM [Main Stream Media] covered it up by splicing in footage of civilian airliners.


*AIRPLANE PARTS*



Claim: Airplane wreckage proves planes hit the towers.

FACT: The available evidence does not add up.

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/plane-parts-scaffolding.jpg)

As you can clearly see, these engine parts did NOT come from a Boeing 767 aircraft.  To me, it looks like the engine for a cruise missile, seen here:

(http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/700kg-turbofan-engine.jpg)


*TV NETWORKS & MILITARY PSYOPS CONNECTION*



Claim: Just the idea the TV Networks and military would work together to deceive the public is wacky cookoo!

FACT: The TV Networks/Military/PSYOPS connection was reported by the media before 9/11.

*TV-FAKERY*


Claim: Just the idea the TV Networks would broadcast fake footage is nutcase kooky!

FACT: This technology was reported in the media before 9/11 as being available by TV Networks and the military for the purpose of altering world politics.

Isaac Newton’s Third Law of Motion: “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.”

High school physics states that the force an airplane exerts on a building is the same as the force a building exerts on an airplane.  Now check out these images, and ask yourself, do they match up with Newton's third law of motion?

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/steel-concrete-aluminum-plastic.jpg)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/plane-cartoon-cutouts.jpg)

Even Peter Jennings knew the 9/11 airplane video was fake. Note his nervousness and word fumbling when ABC plays this amateur clip back in slow motion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCDu2V3yjS4

As retired Aerospace Engineer Joseph Keith says: "The video is phony because airliners don’t meld into steel and concrete buildings, they crash against them!"

http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911&..._planer_resigns

Probably the most damning evidence can be seen with Fox 5's infamous "Nose out" video
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/fox5jo0.gif)

This is my personal favorite.  Check out CNN's cartoon plane  ;D
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/hezarkhanicumv3.gif)

A real plane would crash against the building.  The tail should of ripped off, not melted into the building

*DEBUNKED?*



Claim: TV-Fakery has been debunked time and time again.

FACT:The violation of Newton’s Laws of Motion has never been explained.

Several “papers” claiming to debunk TV-Fakery have surfaced. However, not one of them approaches the obvious violation of Newton’s Laws regarding an aluminum airplane with a plastic nosecone gliding through a steel/concrete building. Instead, these strawman papers attempt to discredit TV-Fakery by “explaining away” a few points. Neither Steven Jones nor anyone in his team has ever addressed Newton’s Laws as it applies to TV-Fakery. (I wonder why…)


I just wanted to put this on the current page so people can look at these pics and vids and see that what the TV told you always isn't correct... Question reality and just because Faux News tells you something, you don't have to believe it.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 14, 2009, 03:21:25 pm
NO WAY!

Planes hit the buildings.

Witness testimony says so.

50+ videos say so.

NOT ONE video has been posted on the internet showing anything else even though there were thousands watching the second impact with an unknown (from the alledged fakers point of view) number of image recording equipment.

No way would a faker hope to control the images for the second impact. No way. Anyone who thinks so is not very good with logic.

Go away with this COINTELPRO nonsense.

Planes hit the building, it is IMPOSSIBLE that anything else did.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 14, 2009, 04:01:15 pm
I just wanted to put this on the current page so people can look at these pics and vids and see that what the TV told you always isn't correct... Question reality and just because Faux News tells you something, you don't have to believe it.

We do question reality but dont entertain fantasy theories that don't stand up to rational scrutiny.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 14, 2009, 04:29:20 pm
We do question reality but dont entertain fantasy theories that don't stand up to rational scrutiny.

And tell me why the video above shows a plane melting into a building?  Literally not one piece flying off... An aluminum plane going through a steel gabled building...

I hope you realize that the same reaction I get when I say stuff like this, is the same that you get when you talk to your parents or anyone else who is going by what Faux News told them happened... 19 "sand people"
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 14, 2009, 04:39:04 pm
Please explain this, PLEASE.  Is it so crazy to have a question about this video??  Even the news caster says he can see the nose of the plane come out the other side!!
If you think about it this video is like the WTC7 smoking gun that the videos on that day were tampered with.  Am I saying planes didn't hit the building?  I don't know.  But the video footage on 9/11 has been heavily tampered with!! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWSWtnkicIo&feature=PlayList&p=B45CAB1DBFCC5851&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 14, 2009, 04:47:38 pm
Please explain this, PLEASE.  Is it so crazy to have a question about this video??  Even the news caster says he can see the nose of the plane come out the other side!!
If you think about it this video is like the WTC7 smoking gun that the videos on that day were tampered with.  Am I saying planes didn't hit the building?  I don't know.  But the video footage on 9/11 has been heavily tampered with!! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWSWtnkicIo&feature=PlayList&p=B45CAB1DBFCC5851&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18

The thing I always get is "that i'm not helping the movement" but I AM A TRUTHER.. and I would like to know the TRUTH... No matter who's feelings it hurts that I won't accept Jason Bermas' word as gospel. (Not that I dont listen to his show daily, same as Alex) but the fact is, there are other ways of seeing things and if no concrete evidence is presented, why can't there be an opposing view...?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 14, 2009, 06:29:55 pm
ok this is a clip taken from bbc world. the footage that i say is suspect is the footage from 47 to 1:05.

http://www.udn1.com/footage from across the river.avi (http://www.udn1.com/footage from across the river.avi)

it is like one big magic trick and you are not the magician.

now remember this is just one shot of video that i think is suspect. it would take me hours of video in adobe premiere to show you all the mistakes in the media footage production, which prove that it was edited and that there was foul play with the plane aspect.

Check at exactly 35 seconds in this video, you can see explosions where the object hit very very clearly on the other side of the building, seems to be to create the plane impact damage

Also a few seconds before impact at about 32-33 seconds you can see a black blur on the WTC which is highly suspicious.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 14, 2009, 07:02:41 pm
I enjoy this forum and there is a tremendous amout of knowledge but I dislike how people who even investigate no planes get jumped on and ridiculued
I am still unsure of what to think of this, and does it really matter?  Not really, either way 9/11 was still an inside job.  But it is definatly interesting, the clip Sensi Dave put is interesting, and especially the nose out clips.  Most people attack the people talking about no planes rather then attack the claims.


Agreed. There is tremendous peer pressure on this forum to want to high-five board-mates the accepted theories on 911, fit in, and get a warm fuzzy.

911 Whistle-blower Richard Andrew Grove told me he was right under the WTC when the second plane "supposedly" hit--yet he never heard it or saw it.

I have heard enough interviews from people in Manhattan that day, that many of them saw something different from one another: a large passenger plane, no--a small passenger plane, no--a military plane, no--a missile, no-a missile shaped like a plane, no--a ball (that's right, a ball shaped object), and even--nothing, just a explosion out the side of the building.

Just because someone told you over the phone, as it was happening, what they were seeing was a large passenger crash into the WTC--then are all the other people, who something different, wrong? Each one would argue what they saw was correct.

I wasn't there in New York City that day, so all I can do is look at these video clips, and if you've seen the documentary: September Clues, you've seen many examples of how the MSM played this event  as it was unfolding--lots of questionable glitchs, audio and visual anomalies one would find if tampering was a foot.
Odds are, many of those MSM people also work for the CIA.

Food for thought: In the sixties, they used to have a joke: If all the CIA agents left the Rolling Stone Magazine employee roster, they'd have to close shop.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: KittyAK47 on June 14, 2009, 09:59:20 pm
Regardless of what plane hit the buildings, the collapse occurred due to pre-planted explosives...I am not sure what hit the buildings....but the end result was just what happened to bring down  2 towers and create a society of rear , and panic to protect our national security.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 15, 2009, 12:35:55 am
This is taken from the maker of September Clues' youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/user/simonshack

my main research
SEPTEMBER CLUES
can be downloaded in DVD-quality here :

http://www.thesocialservice.it


Alternatively, you can watch it in high-quality video-streaming here :

SEPTEMBER CLUES first half
http://blip.tv/file/1272900

SEPTEMBER CLUES second half
http://blip.tv/file/1273564/



THE 9/11 TV HOAX EXPOSED

As hard as it may be at first to come to terms with, the most solid evidence left from 9/11 is to be found on film : a thorough analysis of the 9/11 TV archives and every single so-called "amateur" video clip betrays that the 'airplanes' we saw on TV were either tampered with or entirely fabricated with digitally-generated imagery. This of course implies that the big TV networks' were complicit in this massive hoax - their role forming an integral part of this false-flag operation aimed at creating a fictitious enemy of the Western World - whose gigantic military machine would otherwise rot in a hangar.

Today, TV is the enemy : no mainstream media can be trusted as they serve the vested interests of a handful of bandits who dominate the World economy. This is not hard to understand, nor is it difficult to see how the newsmedia relentlessly pushes the fake 'War on Terror' agenda aimed at subduing hapless nations, plunder their resources and enrich the few.

Predictably, a growing effort is under way to stir up utter confusion around the TV FAKERY research. A typical tactic is to call this research "government sponsored disinformation";... I ask all level-headed people to keep their spirits balanced and understand this is a 'natural' development which should be of no surprise to anyone : as this research leads to the hottest smoking gun of 9/11 (along with many more who, alas, have all failed to launch a real inquiry), we can only expect major efforts will be deployed to discredit the TV fakery research. They will not succeed for the evidence available today is simply beyond debate.

Enormously popular films like Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Loosechange" have hit the mainstream scene to give the common man the feeling we live in a free speech society. I used to believe in them myself - not anymore - as it is evident they promote only attractive theories but no proof : the only verifiable, repeatable and thus court-admissible proof we have is the video fabrications aired by the newsmedia on 9/11. Of course the towers were demolished with powerful explosives, yet this is nothing that can be demonstrated in any scientific way as all the rubble has long been disposed with.

In my mind, future generations will despise us all if we don't have the guts to expose the evil resident in our contemporary rulers. We will be derided throughout history if we fail to expose the tricks they are playing on us. Enjoy life while doing this - a strong, positive spirit is the key to defeat its darker sides.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 15, 2009, 01:21:47 am
And tell me why the video above shows a plane melting into a building?  Literally not one piece flying off... An aluminum plane going through a steel gabled building...[/quot]

Jeeze, new day same sh*t.

The building facade was 43% (yes I measured it) glass, the plane initially went through a cheese grater until enough mass ripped the building steel - the planes are NOT all aluminium.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 15, 2009, 01:30:39 am
And tell me why the video above shows a plane melting into a building?  Literally not one piece flying off... An aluminum plane going through a steel gabled building...[/quot]

Jeeze, new day same sh*t.

The building facade was 43% (yes I measured it) glass, the plane initially went through a cheese grater until enough mass ripped the building steel - the planes are NOT all aluminium.



but with not even 1 piece of wing, tail, luggage, body, or anything flying off... OTHER THAN THE "TERRORIST PASSPORT" THAT FLOATED TO THE STREET??  GIVE ME A BREAK...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 15, 2009, 01:31:30 am
September Clues is one of the most dishonest 9/11 films out there.

It "examines" the second WTC impact and concocts theories without and discussion of focal length, distance, field view and parallax.

It is a truly disgusting piece of work meant to deceive people and drown the real 9/11 issues in a pool of "nutty conspiracy theories".

I can't believe the posts I'm seeing here this morning.

My point still remains and is unanswered by the mad or bad pushing no-planes.. why would fakers stage a second impact 20 minutes after the first with thousands watching and think they could control the images in one of the tourist hot-spots of the world.

Come on... just how did they control the images of everyone with a camera and video recorder watching that event?

Tell me how they managed that trick and I'll start listening else go away with your COINTEPRO disinfo.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 15, 2009, 01:32:17 am
And tell me why the video above shows a plane melting into a building?  Literally not one piece flying off... An aluminum plane going through a steel gabled building...

Jeeze, new day same sh*t.

The building facade was 43% (yes I measured it) glass, the plane initially went through a cheese grater until enough mass ripped the building steel - the planes are NOT all aluminium.


Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 15, 2009, 01:39:56 am
September Clues is one of the most dishonest 9/11 films out there.

It "examines" the second WTC impact and concocts theories with and discussion of focal length, distance, field view and parallax.

It is a truly disgusting piece of work meant to deceive people and drown the real 9/11 issues in a pool of "nutty conspiracy theories".

I can't believe the posts I'm seeing here this morning.

My point still remains and is unanswered by the mad or bad pushing no-planes.. why would fakers stage a second impact 20 minutes after the first with thousands watching and think they could control the images in one of the tourist hot-spots of the world.

Come on... just how did they control the images of everyone with a camera and video recorder watching that event?

Tell me how they managed that trick and I'll start listening else go away with your COINTEPRO disinfo.

Cointelpro is a straw man against real, researched info...  Let's all just discount September Clues as pure bullshit when all it does  (like Alex Jones) is show the pictures that were shown on MSM on 9/11.. He doesn't make up anything, tell you what he thinks.. He just shows news reports, lets everyone know who exactly made those reports, and lets everyone know the inconsistencies in the reports...

 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 15, 2009, 01:39:56 am
but with not even 1 piece of wing, tail, luggage, body, or anything flying off... OTHER THAN THE "TERRORIST PASSPORT" THAT FLOATED TO THE STREET??  GIVE ME A BREAK...

Because the facade was 43% glass and the plane was travelling at over 400 mph, the plane "shreaded" and was dragging other stuff through initially until the engines and spar frame punched through. 

Answer my question about the insanity of faking impacts 20 minutes apart with thousands watching the second impact.

Tell me, how did they control the images of everyone with a camera and video recorder that day?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 16, 2009, 03:08:03 pm
voskhod3 you seem to be the only one truely interested in argueing with no planers. i appreciate that.

you have to accept though that we are sincere in our opinions and we do not intend to distrupt the movement. if anything we want more investigation. it is not over. there is a lot more to it and we know it.

please explain to me exactly what you mean by focal length, distance, field view and parallax, because that does not really dispute all the points in september clues. the wnyw footage is highly dodgy, regardless of the nose out and fade to black sequence, or the fact that cnn used a banner to cover the shot a few minutes later. the highly dodgy part is when the camera is zoomed out and there is no plane there. then all of sudden it appears.

there is some logic for you.

have a look at some pictures...

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t220/gsxrjunkie/navytomahawkb.jpg)

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t220/gsxrjunkie/BGM-109D-1.jpg)

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t220/gsxrjunkie/1998_cruise_missile.jpg)

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t220/gsxrjunkie/000-ALCM-600-032.jpg)

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t220/gsxrjunkie/000-AGM-86C-Term-1.jpg)

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t220/gsxrjunkie/000-AGM-86A-AEDC.jpg)

is it a plane, is it a missle ? no it is a co intel pro...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 16, 2009, 04:10:30 pm
you have to accept though that we are sincere in our opinions and we do not intend to distrupt the movement.
I don't believe you, you are mad or bad.

Bad I think.


Quote
if anything we want more investigation. it is not over. there is a lot more to it and we know it.

Then focus on the real issues.

9/11: Press for Truth is a great example of the real issues, not your COINTELPRO crap designed to bury real issues under nutty stuff.

Quote
please explain to me exactly what you mean by focal length, distance, field view and parallax, because that does not really dispute all the points in september clues.
You want me to explain it but you know... "that does not really dispute all the points in september clues".

How can an examination of supposed footage anomalies from various angles be discussed without mention of these factors.

September Clues is a great steaming LIE.

Quote
there is some logic for you.

Here's a FACT.. thousands were watching the 2nd impact, NO WAY could the supposed fakers even think they could control witness accounts and images of the second impact.

No way - FACT!

Unless you can explain to me how they could.

Quote
is it a plane, is it a missle ? no it is a co intel pro...
They are clearly missiles. So what?

(http://miltonboy.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/teapot6bk1.jpg)

This is a teapot, nobody filmed one of those crashing into the WTC either.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 16, 2009, 06:30:22 pm
^Strawman BS!

How about anytime someone disagrees with me, I just start yelling "COINTELPRO" or saying that you are a bad person...  great arguement...

Why does everyone discount September Clues?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 17, 2009, 12:42:37 am
^Strawman BS!

How about anytime someone disagrees with me, I just start yelling "COINTELPRO" or saying that you are a bad person...  great arguement...
No what you have said is a strawman.

I actually asked you a question:

"Here's a FACT.. thousands were watching the 2nd impact, NO WAY could the supposed fakers even think they could control witness accounts and images of the second impact.

No way - FACT!

Unless you can explain to me how they could. "

So.. do you have an answer?

Quote
Why does everyone discount September Clues?
Because it's dishonest, I already explained why.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 17, 2009, 12:47:40 am
I just wanted to put this on the current page so people can look at these pics and vids and see that what the TV told you always isn't correct... Question reality and just because Faux News tells you something, you don't have to believe it.

Before we get talking about the myriad of possibilities of the engine on the street (and this has been done elsewhere)... let's not get ahead of ourselves... how did the alleged fakers who supposedly faked this engine.. how did they hope to control all the witness accounts and images of the second impact they allegedly planned 20 minutes after the first?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 17, 2009, 06:10:07 pm
i don't know how they did it, but i think they did
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 17, 2009, 07:01:49 pm
i don't know how they did it, but i think they did

Any who is they?? The US govt. i would hope....
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 18, 2009, 11:10:57 am
i don't know how they did it, but i think they did

How?

How did they possibly think they could control the witness statements and recorded images of thousands watching the second impact.

You must have a vague idea?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 18, 2009, 11:17:49 am
they didn't need to control the witness statements per say.

all they had to do was insert witnesses who said what they wanted them to say, as in real co intel pro witnesses that said they saw planes and ignored any witneses that said otherwise.

we all know they screen witneses extremely before letting them through and you can be assured they did exactly that.

like i said, if you had read one of my first posts in this thread i did go into some detail about how i think they would have managed to collect all the footage in new york or edit/hide/destroy the footage that showed a missile.

and as for eye witnesses seeing a plane, as you can see from the pictures above, the missiles look very similar to planes, there is also reports of a sonic boom on cnn. although there was no other reports of a sonic boom in new york, i would be interested to hear if you ever came across any reports on radio or otherwise of a sonic boom. the point being that a passenger jet can not reach mach 1 speed to generate a sonic boom, a missile however can go far beyond the speed of sound.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 18, 2009, 11:29:31 am
they didn't need to control the witness statements per say.

yes they did, there could have been all kinds of people watching, influencial people, people with contacts, people who are good on the internet... anyone!

Quote
all they had to do was insert witnesses who said what they wanted them to say, as in real co intel pro witnesses that said they saw planes and ignored any witneses that said otherwise.

No.. they had stop people saying "gee I think I saw a missle".

Quote
like i said, if you had read one of my first posts in this thread i did go into some detail about how i think they would have managed to collect all the footage in new york or edit/hide/destroy the footage that showed a missile.
What?

How would they know who had footage? Would they insist on the memory card or a copy? Would they insist that copies be destroyed?

How?

Was everyone watching a sheep?

How could they guarantee that?

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 18, 2009, 03:46:53 pm
Quote
Quote from: sekular on Today at 11:17:49 AM
they didn't need to control the witness statements per say.

yes they did, there could have been all kinds of people watching, influencial people, people with contacts, people who are good on the internet... anyone!

Quote
all they had to do was insert witnesses who said what they wanted them to say, as in real co intel pro witnesses that said they saw planes and ignored any witneses that said otherwise.

No.. they had stop people saying "gee I think I saw a missle".
well it was actually a cnn anchor that said on air about 5-15mins after the news broke "to be more specific, some people said they thought they saw a missile". now this is the only report of the word missile apart from a slip by editing crew when editing the word missile to plane, they left the first part of the word missile in the sentence. (if you require the footage for these claims please let me know as i can supply it)
Quote
Quote
like i said, if you had read one of my first posts in this thread i did go into some detail about how i think they would have managed to collect all the footage in new york or edit/hide/destroy the footage that showed a missile.
What?

How would they know who had footage? Would they insist on the memory card or a copy? Would they insist that copies be destroyed?

how would they know who had footage: well this is a hope i still like retain, that someone one day will come out with any new footage that i have not seen before, with intact non skeptical audio. some have come out over the years. now i am excluding camera planets footage, i am talking before they made their archive available. just people posting their footage onto the net. so over the years i have seen some released on to the internet. but none of them show anything that would compromise their story, even close ups of the towers is rare. i don't know why no one has released 30 mins of the towers just burning, ie before the "collapse". the footage i saw was from 911 eye witness, that was a lot of raw footage. that doc is great i recommend it. but back to the question. how would they know who had it. well like i said, there was reports of the authorities asking for footage so that it could be used as "evidence". i have no evidence to suggest that people with camera on the day where actually confronted while filming and asked if they got the impact. but considering what they did at the pentagaon. i wouldn't think that was unbelievable, although it would be a massive area to cover and they wouldn't be able to get all the people in the buildings etc. it would be impossible that way to get every camera. also with the shock of the day the camera men probably wouldn't realize what they had, if they did get anything that could later be used as proof against the official story. remember a lot of the footage that we have seen from amateurs was given to the media. unless the person has the mindset that the footage they had could be used as proof against the official story, at the time, it is unlikely that they would investigate it themselves, if it had anything of significance they would probably want to notify the authorities. ie, hey the media is saying it was a plane and my camera is showing a missile. i better let them know this. hey media i have proof it was not a plane it was a missile. boom, "fbi" at your house tapes gone... you who knows what happened. still hoping for that person that knew not to contact the authorities will appear one day. my theory is that bob and bris what we saw was footage that fitted this type of idea.

Would they insist on the memory card or a copy, Would they insist that copies be destroyed: now remember this was 2001, digital cameras have got a lot cheaper and mobile phone cameras have changed into digital cameras. considering the situation i would say if they arrived at your house, what they were going to take, memory card or your whole camera, was the least of your worries...



Quote
How?

Was everyone watching a sheep?

How could they guarantee that?

i don't think the day was funny and see your attempt at humor, is futile in this instance.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 18, 2009, 04:00:08 pm
well it was actually a cnn anchor that said on air about 5-15mins after the news broke "to be more specific, some people said they thought they saw a missile". now this is the only report of the word missile apart from a slip by editing crew when editing the word missile to plane, they left the first part of the word missile in the sentence. (if you require the footage for these claims please let me know as i can supply it)What?
Yeah lets see that film... irrelevant as it is.. let's see it.

Quote
how would they know who had footage: well this is a hope i still like retain, that someone one day will come out with any new footage that i have not seen before, with intact non skeptical audio. some have come out over the years.
Regardless of your hopes... how would they know who had the footage?

Why would they possibly think beforehand they could control such an unknown situation?

How did the control this situation afterwards?


Quote
now i am excluding camera planets footage, i am talking before they made their archive available. just people posting their footage onto the net. so over the years i have seen some released on to the internet. but none of them show anything that would compromise their story,

Exactly.

QED.

Quote
Would they insist on the memory card or a copy, Would they insist that copies be destroyed: now remember this was 2001, digital cameras have got a lot cheaper and mobile phone cameras have changed into digital cameras.
what?

What has that got to do with controlling the handing over of ALL the origianals, digital, analog video or film? How could they possibly think they could control such an unknown situation?

Quote
considering the situation i would say if they arrived at your house, what they were going to take, memory card or your whole camera, was the least of your worries...
How many people have reported that their originals were taken off them and what was posted is differnt to what they originally had?



i don't think the day was funny and see your attempt at humor, is futile in this instance.
[/quote]
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 18, 2009, 04:50:21 pm
Quote
Yeah lets see that film... irrelevant as it is.. let's see it.

http://udn1.com/first example plane, edit.avi (http://udn1.com/first example plane, edit.avi)

Quote
How did the control this situation afterwards?

they would have needed to be able to monitor all phone calls within the area for months detecting words about 911, footage, missile etc. that would have been a massive hack.

Quote
QED.

what ?

Quote
How many people have reported that their originals were taken off them and what was posted is differnt to what they originally had?

none that i am aware of.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 18, 2009, 06:18:51 pm
Interesting  video sekular - Where the mi- uh plane made contact. 

Related video here:
9/11 commissioner slip up MISSILE at the Pentagon!!! (Right at 24 seconds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1vjLBFk5PI

Don't forget about the 70+ videos the FBI is holding and hasn't released on the WTC (WHY!?!?!?).  I think they released 11 of the 70+ after going through court.  The Pentbomb videos.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 18, 2009, 06:38:45 pm
it is at 16 seconds. i am still looking for the other video, i can't find it in the footage i have, to be honest i don't enjoy going through footage so i might do it on the weekend when i have some more time.

they used mutli track sequences and edited on the fly. there was a lot to it and i have not worked it all out yet.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 18, 2009, 07:10:07 pm

Yeah--classic, the announcer saying: "Where the mi- uh plane made contact"

What I find funny is all those that attack the "no-planners" don't want to hear anything about doctored video footage. That is funny, because these same people, I'm sure, will tell
you that they do not trust what the main stream media broadcasts to them daily; video and or audio--but yet on the morning of 911--suddenly the MSM is broadcasting nothing but the truth folks!
Right...
 ::)

Also, in September Clues, didn't they mention something about all cell phone activity was blocked in lower Manhattan on 911?
I don't know if that is true, but if so, certainly an interesting tie-in to controlling the area and broadcasting only what "they" wanted us to see and believe, without bystanders being able to report otherwise.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 18, 2009, 07:44:02 pm
Yeah--classic, the announcer saying: "Where the mi- uh plane made contact"

What I find funny is all those that attack the "no-planners" don't want to hear anything about doctored video footage. That is funny, because these same people, I'm sure, will tell
you that they do not trust what the main stream media broadcasts to them daily; video and or audio--but yet on the morning of 911--suddenly the MSM is broadcasting nothing but the truth folks!
Right...
 ::)

Also, in September Clues, didn't they mention something about all cell phone activity was blocked in lower Manhattan on 911?
I don't know if that is true, but if so, certainly an interesting tie-in to controlling the area and broadcasting only what "they" wanted us to see and believe, without bystanders being able to report otherwise.



OMG OMG COINTELPRO...

Apparently EVERYONE knows that September Clues is dis-info...
I think that "simonshack" is very similar to AJ in that he shows the MSM point of view and then points out the inconsistencies in their stories..
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 18, 2009, 08:38:33 pm
OMG OMG COINTELPRO...

Apparently EVERYONE knows that September Clues is dis-info...
I think that "simonshack" is very similar to AJ in that he shows the MSM point of view and then points out the inconsistencies in their stories..

Nope--just thinking for myself.

EVERYONE knows?

Well, I'm not everyone--but I have a mind of my own. Herd mentality is not my THANG.
I think September Clues has some very interesting points--and that's all they are, I can't know if they are true.


Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 18, 2009, 09:06:20 pm
I agree with you and it's odd that nobody can see the forest through the trees...  I have done many hundreds of hours of research (I know i'm not the only one) and I have notebooks full of writings and ideas based on what I have seen... but when you see all the movies, watch them tons of times... you figure you have a good grasp on what's going on...
Like I said on a previous thread, IF the govt. lies once, what's to stop them from doing it tons of times, IF the govt. planned operation northwoods (I understand that wasn't Bush/Obama or anyone making decisions today) but still...  I've always been told once a liar, always a liar... 

It's obvious to me that the US govt. doesn't think enough of it's citizens to tell us the truth... So therefore I have a hard time believing anything that they have to say...
the 9/11 report is pure bullshit, what MSM puts out is pure bullshit... so why believe either??
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 18, 2009, 09:37:00 pm
I agree with you and it's odd that nobody can see the forest through the trees...  I have done many hundreds of hours of research (I know i'm not the only one) and I have notebooks full of writings and ideas based on what I have seen... but when you see all the movies, watch them tons of times... you figure you have a good grasp on what's going on...
Like I said on a previous thread, IF the govt. lies once, what's to stop them from doing it tons of times, IF the govt. planned operation northwoods (I understand that wasn't Bush/Obama or anyone making decisions today) but still...  I've always been told once a liar, always a liar... 

It's obvious to me that the US govt. doesn't think enough of it's citizens to tell us the truth... So therefore I have a hard time believing anything that they have to say...
the 9/11 report is pure bullshit, what MSM puts out is pure bullshit... so why believe either??

 :D ---Agreed.

Yes, exactly--why believe either.

The only ones who know exactly how 911 was pulled off were those that did it.

All you can do is look at ALL the footage, evidence, articles, and then---go to your gut and decide "for yourself" what do you think--not what the other Prison Planet Forum members think in unison, but you, what do you think happened on 911?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 18, 2009, 09:59:12 pm

Planes were used on 9/11. 4 of them. They were big.

^^I don't believe that^^
I have made my questions and opinions clear time and time again in the luggage thread and here a little bit but to have MOD's sticky topics like "NO PLANERS EXPOSED" is just stupid.. If you can say to me that 4 planes crashed that day, you must be "smoking meth with "simon shack" as bermas said"...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 01:33:02 am
they would have needed to be able to monitor all phone calls within the area for months detecting words about 911, footage, missile etc. that would have been a massive hack.

For Gods sake man.. listen to yourself... is there no stretch too far?

NYC is a tourist attraction for people all over the world.

How could they think they could control all the witnesses and images for the second impact which they supposedly planned for 20 MINUTES after the first when thousands of unknown people would be watching with an unknown number of recording devices.

Give it up...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 01:34:10 am
What I find funny is all those that attack the "no-planners" don't want to hear anything about doctored video footage.

That's because there is none.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 19, 2009, 01:43:32 am
That's because there is none.

You know you have more posts on this thread, than just about anyone else...

You trying to convince us, or yourself?
 ;)

Methinks thou doest protest too loudly.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 01:45:54 am
You know you have more posts on this thread, than just about anyone else...

You trying to convince us, or yourself?
 ;)

Methinks thou doest protest too loudly.

Show me a doctored video.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 19, 2009, 01:50:36 am
Show me a doctored video.

Just watch September Clues--I've been mentioning it in my previous posts as an example of showing the questionable video that the MSM broadcast. The narrator breaks it down and walks through the pieces.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6407548186293238834&ei=izQ7Soz8GYGerQPj292WCg&q=september+clues&hl=en
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 19, 2009, 02:01:07 am
Voskhod3, tell me that you've watched the video... several times... jotted down notes... gave it a chance...
I have watched it maybe 20 times or so... which is similar to alot of other videos... I dont dismiss anything from others words... I watch, I think, I gather my OWN opinions...

It's easy to just dismiss something, be closed minded... but it's another thing to really study what you see and make your own mind up on what you believe...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Southern Patriot on June 19, 2009, 02:44:28 am
Check this video out....18 witnesses at the Pentagon who all saw the plane on the wrong side of the gas station....3 of them police officers...None saw the impact....2 witnesses that saw the plane fly away from the "point of impact".....1 cab driver admitting he lied about what happened with the light pole in the windshield....This is the best evidence I have seen from any source.
If we are to go on witness testimony then here it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 19, 2009, 03:01:49 am
watched it as soon as it was posted yesterday morning... you do realize that it's right below this thread...?

It shows that some people saw something... others saw another thing... and what some saw and what others thought are contradictory to what could have actually happened...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 19, 2009, 06:25:11 am
You know you have more posts on this thread, than just about anyone else...

You trying to convince us, or yourself?
 ;)

Methinks thou doest protest too loudly.

Voshcod (sp?) is the only one with the patience and tenacity to continue this sort of discourse which I see as pointless because the "scrutinizing" jury is out:  planes hit buildings -- 3 buildings collapsed because of planted explosives.

To all No-Planers:
WHERE ARE YOUR EXPERTS WHO SUPPORT YOUR idiot CLAIMS???  (please note I am calling your claims idiocy not you)  wood, fetzer and other obvious COINTELPRO assets have already been shot down.  Nor does Kleist qualify as an expert.  If you didnt know he is the one who did Sept clues  -- which is crap.  How come you havent talked about pods and flashes or are you holding your cards back?  Because the same 3 cards have been played repetitively again and again.

Show me your experts --- show me your experts ---- show me your experts  -- show me your experts  ---- show me your experts
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 19, 2009, 08:14:29 am
experts ?

you don't need to be an expert to see that i have made some good points in this thread.

voskhod3 you want us to give up ? why would you want us to give up ?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 19, 2009, 10:23:02 am
Voshcod (sp?) is the only one with the patience and tenacity to continue this sort of discourse which I see as pointless because the "scrutinizing" jury is out:  planes hit buildings -- 3 buildings collapsed because of planted explosives.

To all No-Planers:
WHERE ARE YOUR EXPERTS WHO SUPPORT YOUR idiot CLAIMS???  (please note I am calling your claims idiocy not you)  wood, fetzer and other obvious COINTELPRO assets have already been shot down.  Nor does Kleist qualify as an expert.  If you didnt know he is the one who did Sept clues  -- which is crap.  How come you havent talked about pods and flashes or are you holding your cards back?  Because the same 3 cards have been played repetitively again and again.

Show me your experts --- show me your experts ---- show me your experts  -- show me your experts  ---- show me your experts

 ::)

This deserves repeating: Methinks thou doest protest too loudly.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 12:10:40 pm
Just watch September Clues

September Clues is pure nonsense.

How can you compare images without discussing focal length, field depth, distance or parallax?

September Clues is a crock.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 12:12:19 pm
voskhod3 you want us to give up ? why would you want us to give up ?

Because your sh*t stinks out the real 9/11 issues as can be found in "9/11: Press for Truth".

But maybe that's the point.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 19, 2009, 01:11:14 pm
Because your sh*t stinks out the real 9/11 issues as can be found in "9/11: Press for Truth".

But maybe that's the point.

No the point is: you want us to agree with you and say you are right.

Sorry bud. I'm not making up my mind yet on what happened on 911, I like to consider all theories.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 01:18:11 pm
No the point is: you want us to agree with you and say you are right.

Explain how the alleged fakers hoped to control the witnesses and their images of the impact 20 minutes after the first one (the 20 minutes being ENTIRELY THEIR DECISION).

Thousands were watching, they didn't know who they were, where they were from, where they were going after, or what recording equipment they were carrying.

Why would that fake a second impact under those conditions?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 19, 2009, 01:21:00 pm
Explain how the alleged fakers hoped to control the witnesses and their images of the impact 20 minutes after the first one (the 20 minutes being ENTIRELY THEIR DECISION).

Thousands were watching, they didn't know who they were, where they were from, where they were going after, or what recording equipment they were carrying.

Why would that fake a second impact under those conditions?

Buddy, give it a rest. Believe what you want--okay? It's okay to have different opinions.
I'm cool with it.
 :)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 01:22:13 pm
Buddy, give it a rest. Believe what you want--okay? It's okay to have different opinions.

Do you think I make a valid point?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: smoofness2k8 on June 19, 2009, 01:45:35 pm
Do you think I make a valid point?

not really...

will you see my post above and give an answer please...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 02:43:10 pm
not really...

You don't think I have a valid point?

Then you must think it is feasible to have been able to control the thousands unknown witnesses and the unknown number of their images for the second impact.

Can you tell me how?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 19, 2009, 02:50:24 pm
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1148-computer-program-raises-possibility-of-voice-theft.html

something else to consider
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 19, 2009, 03:45:04 pm


This deserves repeating: Methinks thou doest protest too loudly.



Did you say that in a Yoda voice to yourself when you typed it.
Very profound nonetheless.

Buddy, give it a rest. Believe what you want--okay? It's okay to have different opinions.
I'm cool with it.
 :)


You are probably cool with jellybeans and drool dripping off your chin, too.
experts ?

you don't need to be an expert to see that i have made some good points in this thread.

voskhod3 you want us to give up ? why would you want us to give up ?

Experts are key in the pursuit of truth.  We are all not architects, engineers, chemists, physicists, film engineers and therefore we are obligated to defer our opinions to their counsel.  Now in my circumstance the official theory expert accounts are highly conflicted with those that are equally qualified and in my opinion are working for more altruistic reasons(ie. AE truth, Jones, Ryan, et al)
The silly no-plane theory has no experts.  Good Points? that is your opinion.  Example: Some guy at the base of the towers said he thought it might be a missile.  Yeah he might have thought that because he didnt see it and was arriving at conclusions.  Plenty of plausible explanations.  No-plane theorists claims hold no water.

where are your experts --- where are your experts --- where are your experts ----where are your experts   --- where are your experts
 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 19, 2009, 04:16:51 pm
1 expert that comes to mind immediately is Professor Morgan Renolds

No Boeing 747/757s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q8tA2iqaXo
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 19, 2009, 04:26:54 pm
Morgan Reynolds is another one who has been highly criticised for lofty thoughts although I havent arrived at my own conclusion of his work.  But i do appreciate your point and what does he say in regards to planes crashing into the twin towers?   
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 19, 2009, 04:29:33 pm
Well if you watch that video you'll see he agrees the video footage from that day has been heavily tampered with
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 19, 2009, 04:45:24 pm
Well if you watch that video you'll see he agrees the video footage from that day has been heavily tampered with
I watched it --painfully.
First he is no expert - he is a professor of economics -- he may think that there has been tampering with the film but nowhere in this clip was there any analysis at all..
I must admit i felt sorry for him and sorrier for the damage he does to the movement.  If the mainstream keeps people like him in the limelight we are foresaken. 

There are no shortage of film experts out there please show me one who corroborates the no-plane theory.  Seems they are as hard to find as experts to debate the experts of 911 truth, or harder.

 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 19, 2009, 04:51:21 pm
Well if you watch that video you'll see he agrees the video footage from that day has been heavily tampered with

No it wasn't.

Does it discuss focal length, field depth, distance or parallax?

If the discussion doesn't mention these then it's a crock.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 19, 2009, 05:07:20 pm
Did you say that in a Yoda voice to yourself when you typed it.
Very profound nonetheless.


You are probably cool with jellybeans and drool dripping off your chin, too.

Experts are key in the pursuit of truth.  We are all not architects, engineers, chemists, physicists, film engineers and therefore we are obligated to defer our opinions to their counsel.  Now in my circumstance the official theory expert accounts are highly conflicted with those that are equally qualified and in my opinion are working for more altruistic reasons(ie. AE truth, Jones, Ryan, et al)
The silly no-plane theory has no experts.  Good Points? that is your opinion.  Example: Some guy at the base of the towers said he thought it might be a missile.  Yeah he might have thought that because he didnt see it and was arriving at conclusions.  Plenty of plausible explanations.  No-plane theorists claims hold no water.

where are your experts --- where are your experts --- where are your experts ----where are your experts   --- where are your experts
 

Well, you got me convinced of one thing: you have nothing constructive to provide.
Congrats!
 ;D

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 19, 2009, 05:20:17 pm
Well, you got me convinced of one thing: you have nothing constructive to provide.


If that is the case we are even.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on June 19, 2009, 07:34:59 pm
If that is the case we are even.

Nope--now we are.
 ;)

(http://k43.pbase.com/o4/74/283874/1/64830632.s28h57zV.Yawning.gif)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 20, 2009, 07:13:54 am
Another point about the media is that they just have to control what comes out of AP, reuters, bloomberg. As they will all feed information to the rest of the news.  As well as the small amount of sources that they will have.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 20, 2009, 07:37:48 am
The no-planers have a few things right: There was no plane at the Pentagon. The video footage on TV has been tampered with. But that doesn't mean there were no planes crashing into the WTC towers. It just means they've shown you doctored footage and that's it.

Let me turn this sentence around once more, to make sure everybody gets what I meant: There were planes, but for some reason, the footage shown on TV was doctored anyway.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 20, 2009, 07:56:12 am
The no-planers have a few things right: There was no plane at the Pentagon.
There is a subtle game going on here about planes.

There were planes at the WTC for sure, absolutely 100% stone cold fact.

There was at least one commercial aircraft at the Pentagon which may or may not have crashed into it. They are credible witnesses that put it on a flight path different to the official one and perhaps it overshot the building.

Whatever these witness accounts deserve some attention.

It is my belief that the no-planes sh*t at the WTC is to obscure the plane issue at the Pentagon.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 20, 2009, 08:42:47 am
Quote
There is a subtle game going on here about planes.

There were planes at the WTC for sure, absolutely 100% stone cold fact.


That is not a "stone cold fact."  Many of us understand how the media manipulated people like you into believing that so that the govt's story of arabian hijackers would fly.


There was at least one commercial aircraft at the Pentagon which may or may not have crashed into it. They are credible witnesses that put it on a flight path different to the official one and perhaps it overshot the building.

Whatever these witness accounts deserve some attention.

It is my belief that the no-planes sh*t at the WTC is to obscure the plane issue at the Pentagon.


It is my belief that the mainstream media helped Cheney and his cabal take over the U.S. govt on 9/11. 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 20, 2009, 08:44:52 am
That is not a "stone cold fact."  Many of us understand how the media manipulated people like you into believing that so that the govt's story of arabian hijackers would fly.

Tell me how they even thought they could control the unknown witnesses and the unknown number of recorded images for an impact staged 20 minutes after the first one?

They couldn't possibly.

It is a stone cold fact that planes flew in the WTC.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 20, 2009, 09:13:11 am
sure
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 20, 2009, 09:27:31 am
sure

You have an explanation on how they did that?

Please tell us.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 20, 2009, 09:58:40 am
Here's proof of TV fakery for the 3rd time vok

First, I want to preface this by saying that I do not believe in NPT [No Plane Theory].

It is my belief that military aircraft and/or missiles hit the twin towers on 9/11 and the MSM [Main Stream Media] covered it up by splicing in footage of civilian airliners.


*AIRPLANE PARTS*



Claim: Airplane wreckage proves planes hit the towers.

FACT: The available evidence does not add up.

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/plane-parts-scaffolding.jpg)

As you can clearly see, these engine parts did NOT come from a Boeing 767 aircraft.  To me, it looks like the engine for a cruise missile, seen here:

(http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/700kg-turbofan-engine.jpg)


*TV NETWORKS & MILITARY PSYOPS CONNECTION*



Claim: Just the idea the TV Networks and military would work together to deceive the public is wacky cookoo!

FACT: The TV Networks/Military/PSYOPS connection was reported by the media before 9/11.

*TV-FAKERY*


Claim: Just the idea the TV Networks would broadcast fake footage is nutcase kooky!

FACT: This technology was reported in the media before 9/11 as being available by TV Networks and the military for the purpose of altering world politics.

Isaac Newton’s Third Law of Motion: “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.”

High school physics states that the force an airplane exerts on a building is the same as the force a building exerts on an airplane.  Now check out these images, and ask yourself, do they match up with Newton's third law of motion?

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/steel-concrete-aluminum-plastic.jpg)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/plane-cartoon-cutouts.jpg)

Even Peter Jennings knew the 9/11 airplane video was fake. Note his nervousness and word fumbling when ABC plays this amateur clip back in slow motion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCDu2V3yjS4

As retired Aerospace Engineer Joseph Keith says: "The video is phony because airliners don’t meld into steel and concrete buildings, they crash against them!"

http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911&..._planer_resigns

Probably the most damning evidence can be seen with Fox 5's infamous "Nose out" video
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/fox5jo0.gif)

This is my personal favorite.  Check out CNN's cartoon plane  ;D
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/DebunkingANPTMyths/hezarkhanicumv3.gif)

A real plane would crash against the building.  The tail should of ripped off, not melted into the building

*DEBUNKED?*



Claim: TV-Fakery has been debunked time and time again.

FACT:The violation of Newton’s Laws of Motion has never been explained.

Several “papers” claiming to debunk TV-Fakery have surfaced. However, not one of them approaches the obvious violation of Newton’s Laws regarding an aluminum airplane with a plastic nosecone gliding through a steel/concrete building. Instead, these strawman papers attempt to discredit TV-Fakery by “explaining away” a few points. Neither Steven Jones nor anyone in his team has ever addressed Newton’s Laws as it applies to TV-Fakery. (I wonder why…)

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 20, 2009, 10:12:41 am

It is my belief that the no-planes sh*t at the WTC is to obscure the plane issue at the Pentagon.


It is my belief that the No-plane dog and pony show is a spin-off from the legitimate questions surrounding the Pentagon.  COINTELPRO disinfo combined with the unwittingly misinformed has blossomed into a heavy credibility blow to the Truth movement.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 20, 2009, 10:16:42 am
It is my belief that the No-plane dog and pony show is a spin-off from the legitimate questions surrounding the Pentagon.  COINTELPRO disinfo combined with the unwittingly misinformed has blossomed into a heavy credibility blow to the Truth movement.

Absolutely.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 24, 2009, 02:40:46 pm
Quote
It is my belief that the No-plane dog and pony show is a spin-off from the legitimate questions surrounding the Pentagon.  COINTELPRO disinfo combined with the unwittingly misinformed has blossomed into a heavy credibility blow to the Truth movement.

i disagree. if we were to stop as to fear of humiliation we would not have gotten this far.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 02:55:11 pm
i disagree. if we were to stop as to fear of humiliation we would not have gotten this far.

Of course you disagree.

You're a no-planer.

Someone who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.

But hey... "nose out".
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 24, 2009, 02:58:04 pm
i disagree. if we were to stop as to fear of humiliation we would not have gotten this far.

It should be obvious that i don't fear the condemnation I face with my 911 convictions because they are supported by experts and hold up to rational scrutiny.  Now I would be embarrassed to share a collective voice with people that believe No Planes were involved in the WTC attack in a legitimate effort to get a real investigation because IT DOES NOT HOLD UP TO RATIONAL SCRUTINY OR HAVE VETTED EXPERTS.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 03:03:44 pm
No planes is designed to bring ridicule to genuine 9/11 issues.

You have got to suspect anyone who persistently pushes even when the massive holes in what they are saying are stuck in front of them.

How do they explain how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded, or why they even thought they could do so beforehand?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 24, 2009, 03:36:20 pm
No planes is designed to bring ridicule to genuine 9/11 issues.

You have got to suspect anyone who persistently pushes even when the massive holes in what they are saying are stuck in front of them.

How do they explain how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded, or why they even thought they could do so beforehand?

Yup --  completely ignore the facts(witnesses, chunks of airplanes, video (yes videos), extraneous corroborating info like this most recent guy Sonnenfeld surfacing saying he saw airplane pieces in the aftermath), always mention the same supposedly doctored videos as evidence, airplane melted into the building nonsense, nose out nonsense, other nonsense.

It does appear to a bit of a contrived mission on their part.
 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 03:39:12 pm
They will have to stop using the "nose out" nonsense now that it's been totally debunked - (video on youtube).
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 03:49:31 pm
The thing is, I actually remember the news coverage on Sept. 11, as well as the next 2 days.  It was just a smoking building, and footage of the World Trade Center buildings collapsing over and over.  It wasn't until the next few days after 9/11 that footage and images of the planes emerged, all from very mysterious sources, but I won't go into that now.

You'll never get me to believe that the gray shadowy blob that was shown on major news networks is real seen here:

(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8506/cnnkz3.gif)

That is impossible physics.  End of story.  I don't care what you tell me - I know the physical layout of interlocking steel girders would of made that plane bounce right off the building.

For example, when a car hits a wall, what happens?

You tell me... ::)

(http://www.scienceclarified.com/everyday/images/scet_02_img0125.jpg)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 03:54:20 pm
That is impossible physics.  End of story.  I don't care what you tell me - I know the physical layout of interlocking steel girders would of made that plane bounce right off the building.

Total bullsh*t.

You are busted.

The facade was 43% glass.

Go and measure it.

You're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 03:57:20 pm
Total bullsh*t.

You are busted.

The facade was 43% glass.

Go and measure it.

You're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.


43% glass - so what's the other 57%?  Hmm...Maybe super-reinforced interlocking steel girders, seen here:

(http://www.picassodreams.com/.a/6a00d83455ad0369e201053566d3df970b-800wi)

Ya I can totally see how an aluminum plane would slice right through that...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 04:01:35 pm
43% glass - so what's the other 57%?  Hmm...Maybe super-reinforced interlocking steel girders, seen here:

Super-reinforced?

Anyway the facade was 43% NOTHING and the airplane was travelling at 500mph and made of more than aluminium.

Quote
Ya I can totally see how an aluminum plane would slice right through that...
Shredded initially until sufficent mass travelling at 500mph built up it just went through.

So... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 04:09:46 pm
Super-reinforced?

Anyway the facade was 43% NOTHING and the airplane was travelling at 500mph and made of more than aluminium.
Shredded initially until sufficent mass travelling at 500mph built up it just went through.

So... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.

Ya super-reinforced steel.   http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=131020 (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=131020)
Facts
- World's tallest building from 1972 - 1974; surpassed by the Sears Tower in Chicago.
- Replaced the Empire State Building as the city's and the world's tallest building.
- The building was destroyed in the terrorist attacks of September 11th 2001, when a Boeing 767 was flown into the building at the 85th floor at roughly 9:00 am. The building collapsed at 10:28 am.
- Faced with the difficulties of building to unprecedented heights, the engineers employed an innovative structural model: a rigid "hollow tube" of closely spaced steel columns with floor trusses extending across to a central core.
- The columns, finished with a silver-colored aluminum alloy, were 18 3/4" wide and set only 22" apart, making the towers appear from afar to have no windows at all.

- Also unique to the engineering design were its core and elevator system.
- Worried that the intense air pressure created by the buildings' high speed elevators might buckle conventional shafts, engineers designed a solution using a drywall system fixed to the reinforced steel core.


As to the old speed ploy, that really shows you don't understand basic physics.  Have you ever seen a Nascar race for example?  It doesn't matter that the car is going 250mph, it still bounces off the wall.

Why is this?  Because not only is the car hitting the wall at 250mph, but the wall is hitting the race car at 250mph too!

Try to understand:
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8506/cnnkz3.gif) = BULLSH*T!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 04:15:25 pm
Ya super-reinforced steel. 

Super-reinforced NOTHING.

43% of it.

Did the plane not shred?

Is the plane more than aluminium?

So... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 04:22:22 pm
Super-reinforced NOTHING.

43% of it.

Did the plane not shred?

Is the plane more than aluminium?

So... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.

No, dumbass, the plane didn't shred, as you can clearly see from the video above. 

I feel like I'm in the 15th century and trying to explain to someone how the world isn't flat.

You see, there's these laws of motion discovered by this crazy guy Newton.  Basically, when an object, say a plane traveling at over 500mph [supposedly], hits another object, say a Steel building, both objects exert the same amount of force displaced evenly on both.

So, what I'm trying to tell you, is that even when a bullet hits a steel wall, it would still bounce off!  The plane would bounce off, not fuse into the building.

Obvious job of editing.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 04:26:32 pm
No, dumbass, the plane didn't shred, as you can clearly see from the video above. 

Of course it shredded.

The path of least resistance, until the heavy parts smashed in.

43% nothing but glass.

Quote
So, what I'm trying to tell you, is that even when a bullet hits a steel wall, it would still bounce off!

It's not a steel wall.

It's steel and 43% nothing.

So... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 04:34:41 pm
(http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/attachments/month_0905/WTC%201_6tmhT9NCOSQp.jpg)

43% nothing but glass.

Do the math.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 04:36:57 pm
dude, basic physics disputes what your claiming.

I'll just leave it at that.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 04:39:32 pm
dude, basic physics disputes what your claiming.

I'll just leave it at that.

You don't know basic physics.

500mph aluminium doesn't bounce off nothing and will follow the path of least resistance.

Yeah... I bet you want to leave it at that.

Busted.

Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 04:46:09 pm
You don't know basic physics.

500mph aluminium doesn't bounce off nothing and will follow the path of least resistance.

Yeah... I bet you want to leave it at that.

Busted.

Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.

Wow, is that what would happen?   Really?  ::)

(http://911composites.wiki-site.com/images/8/8b/SpiegelTV.gif)

wow that sure looks realistic to me!

Notice how the building re-forms itself after the plane wing had already gone through it.  Is that part of the past of least resistance too vok?

Admit this video is fake and tell the truth, or don't and continue to lie.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 04:47:33 pm
(http://911composites.wiki-site.com/images/8/8b/SpiegelTV.gif)

Whoa!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 04:50:29 pm
Admit this video is fake and tell the truth, or don't and continue to lie.

Admit you know nothing about video compression (Check out September Clues for some people who really know nothing about video images).

43% nothing.

Planes don't bounce off nothing.

Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 04:52:25 pm
Is the above video real footage from the day
or has some no planer tampered with it?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 04:53:18 pm
Admit you know nothing about video compression (Check out September Clues for some people who really know nothing about video images).

43% nothing.

Planes don't bounce off nothing.

Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.

All lies which I have refuted in my earlier posts.  57% reinforced steel.  Laws of physics says planes DO bounce off buildings.

The world isn't flat.

The Main Stream Media did lie to us on 9/11, to further indoctrinate the govt's official version of the story of hijackers with boxcutters.

Not to mention:  No pilot could pull the G-Force maneuver it wouldve taken to hit the twin towers, and the supposed hijackers were horrible pilots!  Proven!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 04:53:46 pm
Is the above video real footage from the day
or has some no planer tampered with it?

It's real just blown up and magnified.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 04:56:34 pm
It's real just blown up and magnified.

Yes a magnified video image.

You guys just don't have a clue.

(Maybe you do, but you're just bad).

Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 04:58:00 pm
All lies which I have refuted in my earlier posts.  57% reinforced steel.  Laws of physics says planes DO bounce off buildings.

Which law of physics says objects bounce off nothing?

Did you ever hear about the path of least resistance?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 04:58:17 pm
It's real just blown up and magnified.

Well all i can say is the pod must have opened way for it.
though i do find the forementioned vid interesting. :)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 04:58:49 pm
Yes a magnified video image.

You guys just don't have a clue.

(Maybe you do, but you're just bad).

Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.

It makes no difference if it's a video, a building can't repair itself after a plane supposedly smashes into it.  As far as your spam statement, I have seen plenty of reports of people who thought they saw a missile.  So explain that.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 05:00:28 pm
I don't rule out no planers myself.
the jury is still out on the whole day's events.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 05:01:28 pm
It makes no difference if it's a video, a building can't repair itself after a plane supposedly smashes into it.  As far as your spam statement, I have seen plenty of reports of people who thought they saw a missile.  So explain that.

v..i..d..e..o....c..o..m..p..r..e..s..s..i..o..n.

Magnified as well!

Wow - I wonder what algorhytms the computer used to do that!

Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 05:02:00 pm
I don't rule out no planers myself.
the jury is still out on the whole day's events.

Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 05:02:55 pm
I have seen plenty of reports of people who thought they saw a missile.  So explain that.

Lets examine them.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 05:03:39 pm
Oh and... you're another one who can't explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.

No i'm not a no planer,
i wouldn't be surprised though with all their black technology.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 05:04:41 pm
No i'm not a no planer,
i wouldn't be surprised though with all their black technology.

Explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 05:05:20 pm
audio video


Again i'm with AJ and Bermas on 911.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 05:05:42 pm
audio video

eh?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 05:06:32 pm
eh?


Holograms, speakers, thermate
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 05:08:17 pm
Holograms, speakers, thermate

F*ck.

I can't believe you said holograms.

Are people still spreading that sh*t?

Do you have any idea what a hologram is?

(Clue; It's nothing like Star Trek).
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 05:09:23 pm
F*ck.

I can't believe you said holograms.

Are people still spreading that sh*t?

Do you have any idea what a hologram is?

(Clue; It's nothing like Star Trek).

google: project bluebeam for more on holograms Vok.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 05:11:59 pm
F*ck.

I can't believe you said holograms.

Are people still spreading that sh*t?

Do you have any idea what a hologram is?

(Clue; It's nothing like Star Trek).


i'm in this for a discussion not a fight.
Are you aware of the technology they keep secret?
i'm not either.
I stand strong and say that if it wasn't real planes
i wouldn't be surprised.
That's all, 99.5% sure they were real planes,
not 100% though.
PEACE
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 05:12:46 pm
google: project bluebeam for more on holograms Vok.

Do you know how holograms work? (I do).

If so.. tell me how they managed that in the skies of NYC.

Tell me about the laws of physics in regards to light.

This is going to be good.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: xTruthSeekerx on June 24, 2009, 05:13:18 pm
Uhmm digital cameras showed a bloody plane people i bet there are a lot of images people have not seen or uploaded scanned etc
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 24, 2009, 05:15:42 pm
i'm in this for a discussion not a fight.
Are you aware of the technology they keep secret?
I know how holograms work and I know the laws of physics.
No holograms... impossible.

This is not Star Trek (which is only a TV program) real holograms are not like Star Trek holograms.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 05:17:10 pm
Do you know how holograms work? (I do).

If so.. tell me how they managed that in the skies of NYC.

Tell me about the laws of physics in regards to light.

This is going to be good.



Ya you know about the latest military technology Vok, because you're super connected to CIA black ops tech.

Dude, you don't know sh*t.  You've made that painfully obvious by insinuating that the past of least resistance for a solid object is through interlocking steel girders, rather than deflecting off.  You've seen video evidence of a building repairing itself after "a plane" hits it.

No one is buying it, least of all me.  Your arguments are to
-repeat something about witnesses over and over and over and over and over, literally prolly around 50+ times.  Wow.  A lot of people saw a lot of different things that day.

also, you like to name call, you've called me out for being a disinfo co-intel agent many times.

To that i say F You dude because you don't even know me.  I'm not buying your lies and it pisses u off I think.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 24, 2009, 05:33:12 pm
I love how people use unknown technologies to buttress already floundering argument.

"I think you dont know what they got to make the stuff that you never seen, Dude."
haha
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 05:34:43 pm
I love how people use unknown technologies to buttress already floundering argument.

"I think you dont know what they got to make the stuff that you never seen, Dude."
haha


Are you 100% sure it was real planes?
I'm not 100% sure about anything. 8)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 24, 2009, 05:42:49 pm
Yes I think they were real planes. I hear you with the "not sure 100% about anything" but I dont see any substance behind this notion of no planes at the WTC.   
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Berminator on June 24, 2009, 05:46:30 pm
Yes I think they were real planes. I hear you with the "not sure 100% about anything" but I dont see any substance behind this notion of no planes at the WTC.   
Me neither friend. :)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 05:52:14 pm
Yes I think they were real planes. I hear you with the "not sure 100% about anything" but I dont see any substance behind this notion of no planes at the WTC.   

The substance is that the media used altered footage to dupe this country into 2 foreign wars which in turn was to set up for ww3.

that's the substance.

can you handle it?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Aden on June 24, 2009, 06:03:36 pm

can you handle it?

Can you handle this?  September Clues: Debunked
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=823734902101057550&ei=b69CSvrwDJyyqQLd85iIBg&q=%22this+is+an+orange%22&hl=en&dur=3 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=823734902101057550&ei=b69CSvrwDJyyqQLd85iIBg&q=%22this+is+an+orange%22&hl=en&dur=3)

You've been misled, friend. 

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 06:09:04 pm
Can you handle this?  September Clues: Debunked
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=823734902101057550&ei=b69CSvrwDJyyqQLd85iIBg&q=%22this+is+an+orange%22&hl=en&dur=3 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=823734902101057550&ei=b69CSvrwDJyyqQLd85iIBg&q=%22this+is+an+orange%22&hl=en&dur=3)

You've been misled, friend. 



That video proved nothing? It was just sept. clues with an apple and an orange inserted in random parts.

Wow.  Handle that the News lied and lies to you every day.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Aden on June 24, 2009, 06:29:49 pm
That video proved nothing? It was just sept. clues with an apple and an orange inserted in random parts.

Wow.  Handle that the News lied and lies to you every day.

Dude, it's over.  The ignorant and ludicrous idea that holograms were used died years ago.  So either you are a misinformation agent, or you are just really dumb.  I'm guessing the former. 

Judging by your response time in your reply to my post, you didn't even see the 30 minute film.  So if you are just dumb, and not a mis-info agent, why are you so afraid to watch?  Are you that attached to your delusion?

Maybe a mod needs to look at this guys account a little more closely.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 24, 2009, 08:00:03 pm
Dude, it's over.  The ignorant and ludicrous idea that holograms were used died years ago.  So either you are a misinformation agent, or you are just really dumb.  I'm guessing the former. 

Judging by your response time in your reply to my post, you didn't even see the 30 minute film.  So if you are just dumb, and not a mis-info agent, why are you so afraid to watch?  Are you that attached to your delusion?

Maybe a mod needs to look at this guys account a little more closely.


wow i'm so f**king tired of being accused of being a disinfo agent by you and your butt buddy vok.  Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they work for the govt.

You're a human and you can be wrong.  You haven't disproved anything with your video so keep moving along and believing what the Main Stream Media tells you.  Enjoy your fluoridated water sucker.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 02:10:34 am
That video proved nothing? It was just sept. clues with an apple and an orange inserted in random parts.

You're busted.

September Clues is busted.

If you can't be bothered to watch the whole video then just watch the shorter "nose out" debunking, just so you can see what a deceptive piece of sh*t September Clues is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bNomV_8034&feature=PlayList&p=52F1CA8C3E1493A6&index=2

Now watch that.. it won't take long... and come back and tell us you honestly stand by the "nose out" nonsense.


Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 02:17:02 am
Dude, you don't know sh*t.  You've made that painfully obvious by insinuating that the past of least resistance for a solid object is through interlocking steel girders, rather than deflecting off.
You're either stupid or bad... I'm thinking bad.

43% of nothing.

Where is the path of least resistance?


Quote
You've seen video evidence of a building repairing itself after "a plane" hits it.
Do you understand video compression?
Do you know what a video compression alogrhythm is?

Serious questions, you can answer yes or no.

Quote
Your arguments are to -repeat something about witnesses over and over and over and over and over, literally prolly around 50+ times.  Wow.

My methods work - you will be debunking your own posts very soon - check out the moon hoax thread. I don't let people off the hook.

Quote
A lot of people saw a lot of different things that day.
I'm still hoping we can examine the statements of people who saw missles like you said. Have you got them?

Quote
also, you like to name call, you've called me out for being a disinfo co-intel agent many times.
That's because you act like one. Nobody could be this perverse and this stupid otherwise.

Anyway.. I've asked you some questions... I await your response.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 02:30:12 am
The ignorant and ludicrous idea that holograms were used died years ago. 

I too was amazed to see the word hologram used.. that was busted a long time ago.

People think holograms are like in Star Trek.

They are not.

Holograms cannot break the laws of physics (Jim).

Holograms require a medium (usually a panel/screen or I've even seen smoke used) to REFLECT the light from the projector to the eye of the person seeing the hologram.

The idea of a 200 foot long reflecting medium flying through the skies of NYC at 500 mph returning a 3D image of a plane is simply ludicrous.

But hey.. it's not like that on Star Trek.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on June 25, 2009, 03:22:25 am
About the video of the plane hitting the building earlier.... you dont really see the impact because the plane enters the shadow of the building making it look like its clipped off before touching the building. But no thats a too reasonable and realistic explanation... it must therefore be video fakery.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 03:31:17 am
About the video of the plane hitting the building earlier.... you dont really see the impact because the plane enters the shadow of the building making it look like its clipped off before touching the building. But no thats a too reasonable and realistic explanation... it must therefore be video fakery.

I'm waiting for Kushfiend to tell us what he knows about video compression.

For instance..
What decisions does a computer make when saving an image based on a compression ratio.
And then when faced with the task of magnifying an image, how does the computer decide what to put onto the empty pixels?

It will be interesting.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 04:05:50 am
Motion compensation and low resolution explains most of the anomalies seen on impact. It does NOT explain the nose-out however.

Are you saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with the videos we have seen on TV? The different coloring, the cut off backgrounds, the black screens, the time delay? Then you're blind on one eye, too.

There's ignorance on both sides of the debate IMHO.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 04:53:55 am
Motion compensation and low resolution explains most of the anomalies seen on impact.
It explains all "anomalies".

Quote
It does NOT explain the nose-out however.
"nose out" is a lie fostered in the September Clues vidoe and busted here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bNomV_8034&feature=PlayList&p=52F1CA8C3E1493A6&index=2

Quote
Are you saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with the videos we have seen on TV?
Yes.

Quote
The different coloring,
More September Clues disinfo.

Go and get your digital and change the colur settings and then ask yourself what exactly do computer chips inside cameras do? Different manufacturers favor diffent settings.

Quote
There's ignorance on both sides of the debate IMHO.

Nope.. just on the side of people who watch Spetember Clues and know nothing about videos or photography.

So.. come back to me when you watched the youtube video and we'll have a chat.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 05:07:48 am
"nose out" is a lie fostered in the September Clues vidoe and busted here:

Wrong, you can see the effect on the original videos, too. Go to archive.org and check it out for yourself. Nose-out is not "a lie". Be precise, what exactly is a lie, and how?

Quote
Go and get your digital and change the colur settings and then ask yourself what exactly do computer chips inside cameras do? Different manufacturers favor diffent settings.

You are missing the point completely. It's the same camera. It's the same pictures from the same angles. The pictures were not recorded 'through a TV' set. That's not how it works. Why does it have different colors on different TV channels? Why does the background disappear?
 
Quote
So.. come back to me when you watched the youtube video and we'll have a chat.

Can't you make your point for yourself? I hate it when people point you to some kind of dubious video instead of addressing the issue. Also, I hate it when people tell me what to do. Use words and I'll promise I'll read them.

How do you explain the black screen right after impact? Coincidence? Of course.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 05:12:18 am
Wrong, you can see the effect on the original videos, too. Go to archive.org and check it out for yourself. Nose-out is not "a lie". Be precise, what exactly is a lie, and how?

Did you watch the video on youtube that completely busts the September Clues "nose out"?

Did you really?

September Clues is a lie.

Quote
You are missing the point completely. It's the same camera. It's the same pictures from the same angles. The pictures were not recorded 'through a TV' set. That's not how it works. Why does it have different colors on different TV channels? Why does the background disappear?
Go and find out how a modern day camera works.. the chip is making colour balancing descions all the time.
 
Quote
Can't you make your point for yourself?
Can't you watch the video.

September Clues.. busted.

Come back when you want to discuss it.


Quote
I hate it when people point you to some kind of dubious video

Like September Clues?

Physican heal thyself.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on June 25, 2009, 07:06:48 am
You are missing the point completely. It's the same camera. It's the same pictures from the same angles. The pictures were not recorded 'through a TV' set. That's not how it works. Why does it have different colors on different TV channels? Why does the background disappear?

Yeah right... those who believe September Clues dont even recognize a different camera angle when the other cam is upside down. Also it seems you dont care about the extremely remote possibility that those videos from the same camera on different channels might have been adjusted by the channel people... you know like its done nonstop. Geez its not like they took the camera with the video and plugged it into the satelite dish.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 07:52:06 am
Quote
Also it seems you dont care about the extremely remote possibility that those videos from the same camera on different channels might have been adjusted by the channel people... you know like its done nonstop

Huh? That's the whole point, yes, that's what I'm trying to tell you, "those videos from the same camera on different channels might have been adjusted by the channel people"!! That's what the September Clues people are trying to tell you.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 07:54:29 am
Huh? That's the whole point, yes, that's what I'm trying to tell you, "those videos from the same camera on different channels might have been adjusted by the channel people"!! That's what the September Clues people are trying to tell you.

There's a difference between adjusting contrast and colour balance and mapping fake planes into live videos.

Did you look at the "nose out" is busted video yet?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 08:01:23 am
Did you watch the video on youtube that completely busts the September Clues "nose out"? Did you really?

I told you, I'd like to hear your argument, not watch some dubious film.

Quote
September Clues is a lie.

It's a film. A film is not "a lie". There can be lies IN a film though. Nose out is an observation. An observation is not "a lie". I apologize if English is not your native language. It's not mine either.

Quote
Go and find out how a modern day camera works.. the chip is making colour balancing descions all the time.

You're still missing the point. It's the same picture, off the same camera. I already told you that.

Quote
Can't you watch the video.

Can't you argue your point yourself? I guess you can't.

Quote
September Clues.. busted. Come back when you want to discuss it.

What do you mean, "come back when you want to discuss it"? Are you saying, unless I watch your stupid film I am not allowed to come back to the board? You have no business telling me when to "come back" or what to do. Who do you think you are?

Btw. you haven't answered my questions, I guess it's because you CAN'T.

- How do you explain that the same picture from the same camera shot from the same angle have different colors on every TV channel that's showing them?

- Why does the background disappear on some versions?

- How do you explain the black screen on ALL channels right after impact? Coincidence?

- How do you explain the "Nose-Out" IN YOUR OWN WORDS?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 08:04:30 am
There's a difference between adjusting contrast and colour balance and mapping fake planes into live videos.

I never said the planes were fake. You must have confused me with someone else. I'm saying, the TV pictures were tampered with, yes.

Quote
Did you look at the "nose out" is busted video yet?

Please explain to me in your own words what you think the nose-out is. I'm not going to watch a film recommended to me by people who can't string a coherent sentence together, sorry. Can't you make the argument yourself? Well too bad.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 08:15:52 am
I told you, I'd like to hear your argument, not watch some dubious film.
Watch the film dude.

Why don't you want to discuss this film? Ah.. I think I know why.

Quote
It's a film. A film is not "a lie".

The film is a deception.. yes a lie.

Quote
There can be lies IN a film though. Nose out is an observation. An observation is not "a lie".
The observation is a lie. "macro precision".
It's a lie.

Quote
You're still missing the point. It's the same picture, off the same camera. I already told you that.
It's been through differnt computers and has been adjusted for colour and balance by different news production crews... hell it may even have been transmitted using an analogue signal at some point in the chain - everything is up for grabs with analogue.

Quote
Can't you argue your point yourself? I guess you can't.

Just watch the damn video and we'll talk about it.

Quote
What do you mean, "come back when you want to discuss it"? Are you saying, unless I watch your stupid film I am not allowed to come back to the board?
No.. watch the video and comeback when you want to discuss it.

Why don't you want to discuss it?

Quote
You have no business telling me when to "come back" or what to do. Who do you think you are?
"Come back when you want to discuss it."
Do you often twist words and build strawmen?

Quote
Btw. you haven't answered my questions, I guess it's because you CAN'T.
"Fade to black"
a) wasn't a fade to black.
b) was caused by a signal interupt because the tv tower is actually on the WTC.
c) one of the two "fade to blacks" had already cut to another camera a split second before.

Do yourself a favor watch "September Clues - Busted" on Google Video - it lasts 30 minutes - stop wasting everyones times with your disinfo.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=823734902101057550&ei=mG1DSrPXJoHt-AaysPj9Bg&q=september+clues+busted
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 25, 2009, 09:42:42 am
Watch the film dude.

Why don't you want to discuss this film? Ah.. I think I know why.
 
The film is a deception.. yes a lie.
The observation is a lie. "macro precision".
It's a lie.
It's been through differnt computers and has been adjusted for colour and balance by different news production crews... hell it may even have been transmitted using an analogue signal at some point in the chain - everything is up for grabs with analogue.
 
Just watch the damn video and we'll talk about it.
No.. watch the video and comeback when you want to discuss it.

Why don't you want to discuss it?
"Come back when you want to discuss it."
Do you often twist words and build strawmen?
"Fade to black"
a) wasn't a fade to black.
b) was caused by a signal interupt because the tv tower is actually on the WTC.
c) one of the two "fade to blacks" had already cut to another camera a split second before.

Do yourself a favor watch "September Clues - Busted" on Google Video - it lasts 30 minutes - stop wasting everyones times with your disinfo.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=823734902101057550&ei=mG1DSrPXJoHt-AaysPj9Bg&q=september+clues+busted

Vok, you're busted.  No one agrees with your insane theory...and quite frankly I think you're an idiot to trust the Main Stream Media.  End of story.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 09:48:17 am
Vok, you're busted.  No one agrees with your insane theory...and quite frankly I think you're an idiot to trust the Main Stream Media.  End of story.

You don't want to discuss the film?

You don't want to discuss the busting of "nose out"?

I'm the insane one?

Believing that planes actually crashed into the WTC is insane?

Really?

Come on dude... let's talk "nose out".
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 11:15:50 am
Finally someone who wants to discuss "nose out". Thank you.

So, how do you explain it?

I watched the video. I remember watching this a couple of weeks ago.

I agree that the "micro-precision" term is absolute and utter baloney, there is no micro-precision when we talk about pixels that represent areas of 1 foot or more. They have a point there.

But no one here was talking about "micro-precision". The point is not wether "September Clues is a lie". The point (OK, let's say my point) was that the TV pictures have been tampered with, and you guys even agreed to an extend by saying, of course all the pictures have been manipulated by the TV stations.

So what exactly is it you're disagreeing with me (with me, not with some semantics from September Clues)? I don't want to talk about a film debunking another film. I got the pictures from archive.org and a video editor software. My research is as good as yours, and as good as theirs. So, let's discuss the issue at hand, not the film ABOUT the issue.

All I'm saying is, there were planes flying into the WTC, AND the TV images have been tampered with one way or the other. Maybe some of them were completely fabricated, I don't know.

No there is two kinds of people, one of them thinks it follows, that if there were faked TV images, then it must be that there were no planes. Think about it for a minute.

Then there's the other kind of people that know what a logical fallacy is :)

To me it makes perfect sense to accept both things to occur in the same time: 1. There was TV fakery and 2. There were, in fact, planes. My point is, September Clues is wrong about no-planes, but right about TV fakery.

Remember, if you know someone is always lying to you, you can always know the truth. If someone is lying to you only half of the time, you never know which one is right and wrong.

I think the whole September Clue film may be a PSYOP to discredit TV fakery by mixing it up with "No-Planes".

 ;D

Btw. What you said about the antenna causing the black screen makes sense to me. I hope I've made my point clearer this time.

Edit: I watched the film, now can you explain how the nose-out effect occured in your own words?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 12:09:43 pm
Finally someone who wants to discuss "nose out". Thank you.

So, how do you explain it?

I watched the video. I remember watching this a couple of weeks ago.

I agree that the "micro-precision" term is absolute and utter baloney, there is no micro-precision when we talk about pixels that represent areas of 1 foot or more. They have a point there.

How do I explain the "utter baloney"?

I think you already explained it.
 

Quote
But no one here was talking about "micro-precision".

Except the people who think September Clues is great... which is you.

Quote
The point is not wether "September Clues is a lie".

Yes is is.

The point is exactly "September Clues is a lie".
 

Quote
The point (OK, let's say my point) was that the TV pictures have been tampered with, and you guys even agreed to an extend by saying, of course all the pictures have been manipulated by the TV stations.

In what way have they been tampered with?

Color?

Quote
So what exactly is it you're disagreeing with me (with me, not with some semantics from September Clues)?
Semantics?

September Clues is a lie.

"utter baloney".

Quote
I don't want to talk about a film debunking another film.

Of course you don't.

Especially when it's so easily debunked and is embarressing to talk about.

Quote
I got the pictures from archive.org and a video editor software.

"I got software".

Pity you have no idea how it works.

v i d e o   c o p r e s s i o n.


Quote
My research is as good as yours,

Nope, yours is nonsense.

Quote
and as good as theirs. So, let's discuss the issue at hand, not the film ABOUT the issue.
But the issues are in the "September Clues Debuked" film.

Quote
All I'm saying is, there were planes flying into the WTC, AND the TV images have been tampered with one way or the other.
Say what?

Why would they need to tamper with real pictures of planes flying into the WTC?

Quote
Maybe some of them were completely fabricated, I don't know.

Now there are no planes again?

Anyway, enough of this baloney.. lets cut to the chase:

Explain just how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and any images they recorded.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 12:10:24 pm
Finally someone who wants to discuss "nose out". Thank you.

Oh.. and.. you didn't discuss it in the end.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 12:48:50 pm
I'll make my argument again, just for you.

- The planes that crashed into the buildings were real. This is the best explanation for the great number of eye witnesses on ground zero.

- The pictures we saw on TV were manipulated. That's the best explanation for at least some of the anomalies we saw.

You're assuming a contradiction between the two, but there is none.

Why are you so fiercely defending the TV stations, at least we know that these guys have lied to us millions of times in the past, don't we?

You're not working for some kind of media company, are you?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 12:51:00 pm
Oh.. and.. you didn't discuss it in the end.

I asked you to explain it in the beginning, but you haven't done it. What caused the nose out, in your own words? You have the floor.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 12:52:47 pm
I asked you to explain it in the beginning, but you haven't done it. What caused the nose out, in your own words? You have the floor.
Watch the video and tell me why it's wrong.

Oh.. you already called "nose out" "utter baloney".

Sorry.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 01:00:17 pm
No, I am asking you.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 01:19:11 pm
No, I am asking you.

What are you asking me? I watched the video and totally agree with it.

What about you?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on June 25, 2009, 01:44:09 pm
nose out is a plume of debris shooting out of the tower. why do you think its a nose?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 01:45:59 pm
nose out is a plume of debris shooting out of the tower. why do you think its a nose?

Infokrieger confuses me.

First he says the September Clues "nose out" section is "utter baloney" but then still seems to think there was a nose out.

 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 02:04:29 pm
Again, you're putting words into my mouth.

I didn't say "Nose out was baloney" I said "micro-precision is baloney".

Your strawman-tactics don't work with me.

Wait a minute, someone finally answered my question! You think the "nose-out" is debris? Alright, thanks for the answer. Maybe you're right. Hard to tell though, is it not? What do you think, Vox, is it debris?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 02:07:52 pm
What are you asking me?

I am asking you, how would you explain, in your own words, what it is we are seeing on the 9/11 videos, that is referred to as "nose-out"? Do you understand the question now?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 02:08:32 pm
Again, you're putting words into my mouth.

I didn't say "Nose out was baloney" I said "micro-precision is baloney".

So the "nose out" in September Clues is good except for the micro-precision LIE (no other word for it) which you think is "utter baloney"?

What about the anti aliasing in the "nose out" in September Clues... that is equally deceptive? What do you say?

Quote
Your strawman-tactics don't work with me.

No strawman from me!

Quote
Wait a minute, did you finally answer my question now? I think you did! You think the "nose-out" is debris? Alright, thanks for the answer. Maybe you're right. Hard to tell though, is it not?
It's debris and the engine that landed on Murray Street. Backed up by the fact that an engine landed in Murray Street.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 25, 2009, 02:20:34 pm
voskhod3 here is your proof, now i would like to hear what you have to say about this...

http://tinyurl.com/ls44lo (http://tinyurl.com/ls44lo)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on June 25, 2009, 02:46:43 pm
error 404...  yay for the no planers
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 25, 2009, 02:58:06 pm
voskhod3:

your argumentative approach and a complete lack of logic, as well as your trollish attitude is highly suspect.

you have not replied to anything i have actually said, all your do is repeat the same questions, even after i have attempted to answer them. you talk about video like you understand it like an "expert" but yet when confronted on the matter you choose to ignore the questions.

this to me is highly suspect as you do not have the willingness to engage in an intelligent debate. We are serious individuals, who are sincere in what we think we have found. I take it as an insult when you say that i am trying to malicious sabotage the 911 movement. Do you think i would have spent hours studying the 911 media footage and spent years collecting footage if i was out to sabotage the movement.

so i would like you to rethink your position.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 25, 2009, 02:58:29 pm
So the "nose out" in September Clues is good except for the micro-precision LIE (no other word for it) which you think is "utter baloney"?

I'm NOT talking about September Clues. I already told you that. I can see the "nose-out" effect / illusion / pixel-mess / plane nose whatever it is on relatively high quality videos (compared to youtube that is) from archive.org.

Quote
What about the anti aliasing in the "nose out" in September Clues... that is equally deceptive? What do you say?

I'm not arguing in favor of September Clues, so I don't have to speak to that. But, in all fairness, if the film maker used anti aliasing to enhance the "precision", I'd call that deceptive, absolutely.
 
Quote
No strawman from me!

Yes, you used the strawman several times on me by putting words in my mouth. You accused me of saying there were no planes, you still keep attacking September Clues (the strawman) while ignoring what I wrote, you keep twisting my words, using loaded questions... pretending not to know the question I'm asking you.. I don't get it, I checked out some of your latest postings on the board, you seem to be a pretty level-headed guy. That's why I was asking why you're reacting so emotional, acting like a troll in this topic, accusing people left and right, calling people names, talking down on them.

Why is the notion that the media might have doctored the footage so offensive to you? They have lied about building 7, haven't they? Are you working for the media? Not that this is a bad thing, don't get me wrong on this. I'm just wondering why you're reacting so emotional while I stay so damn cool.

Quote
It's debris and the engine that landed on Murray Street. Backed up by the fact that an engine landed in Murray Street.

That might very well be the case. The engine has the greatest weight and will continue its momentum while the aluminum parts of the plane wouldn't make it that far. Can you back it up? I'll google for "Murray Street" in the meantime.

Finally you're answering my question, was that so hard?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 03:05:10 pm
your argumentative approach and a complete lack of logic, as well as your trollish attitude is highly suspect.
My arguments are always completely logical.

Unlike any no-planes argument.

Quote
you have not replied to anything i have actually said, all your do is repeat the same questions,

I do until I get an answer.
It works.
Check out the Moon Hoax thread, I got a hoax believer to eventually debunk his own post.

Quote
even after i have attempted to answer them. you talk about video like you understand it like an "expert" but yet when confronted on the matter you choose to ignore the questions.
What questions?

Quote
We are serious individuals,

No.. you are perpetuating disinfo.

Quote
who are sincere in what we think we have found.

You are sincerely perpetuation disinfo.

Quote
I take it as an insult when you say that i am trying to malicious sabotage the 911 movement.
No... No-planers are doing that. FACT!


Quote
Do you think i would have spent hours studying the 911 media footage and spent years collecting footage if i was out to sabotage the movement.

Your footage studies ate total bullsh*t.

Go and watch the September Clues Debunked video on Google Video.

Quote
so i would like you to rethink your position.

I think you should rethink yours!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 25, 2009, 04:01:10 pm
no hope for the simple minded (please note first attack)


go watch wrestling
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 25, 2009, 04:20:39 pm
So how did they control the witnesses and their recorded images for the second impact?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 25, 2009, 05:06:16 pm
no hope for the simple minded (please note first attack)
go watch wrestling

voskhod3 here is your proof, now i would like to hear what you have to say about this...

http://tinyurl.com/ls44lo (http://tinyurl.com/ls44lo)

I thought you were going to finally say something.  Here is your proof comes up 404  -- what is with that? please explain as it was already highlighted for your correction.  I looked through your posts and you really have nothing to say except for unsubstantianted rhetoric (in the true definition of the word) seemingly arguing for the NOPLANE nonsense theory. 
consider this an attack if you wish
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 25, 2009, 05:55:12 pm
there is no proof that will convince you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX6XMIldkRU

"The bigger the lie the more people will believe it" A.Hitler
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 25, 2009, 06:09:00 pm
there is no proof that will convince you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX6XMIldkRU

"The bigger the lie the more people will believe it" A.Hitler

Sekularized have you rechecked your link previously provided? or are you merely marginalizing yourself further by employing Chretien as your spokesperson? And thus reinforcing the previous conjecture that you have nothing to say, really.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 25, 2009, 06:18:15 pm
excuse me i think you have misunderstood
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 25, 2009, 06:29:09 pm
voskhod3 here is your proof, now i would like to hear what you have to say about this...

http://tinyurl.com/ls44lo (http://tinyurl.com/ls44lo)
.
This is the link i wish to have clarified if you need help translating my last post further I will, I say that with caution on your behalf.   
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 25, 2009, 06:45:22 pm
(http://911composites.wiki-site.com/images/8/8b/SpiegelTV.gif)

Go back to sleep Vokshad, your govt. is in control lol  :D
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 01:57:19 am
(http://911composites.wiki-site.com/images/8/8b/SpiegelTV.gif)

Go back to sleep Vokshad, your govt. is in control lol  :D

Do you understand anything about video compression?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 26, 2009, 03:30:14 am
Very good video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZryf1sZBQc&feature=PlayList&p=7EA2472A0606A350&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=62

Please watch especially at 3m 14s  NO PLANE IN THE VIDEO and then they ADD IT IN
What more proof do you need, come on now
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 26, 2009, 03:44:24 am
Phone Interviews with many of the original camera men of the WTC attacks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0nl_ZY3D04&feature=PlayList&p=7EA2472A0606A350&index=64

More and more proof of no planes hate to say it
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 03:46:38 am
More and more proof of no planes hate to say it

So how did they control the witnesses and their recorded images for the second impact?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 26, 2009, 04:09:49 am
Do you understand anything about video compression?

I do. Some people might not. Make your argument. What you're doing is saying "video compression" over and over. That is not an argument. That's like a picture of Hamburger instead of a Hamburger. So, video compression what? And please don't start deflecting again. You got the floor.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 05:00:49 am
I do. Some people might not. Make your argument. What you're doing is saying "video compression" over and over. That is not an argument. That's like a picture of Hamburger instead of a Hamburger. So, video compression what? And please don't start deflecting again. You got the floor.

Do you understand what video compression does to compress an image?

Do you know what happens when a video is expanded and pixels have to be generated to fill the space?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: TheCaliKid on June 26, 2009, 05:03:06 am
The thing is, I actually remember the news coverage on Sept. 11, as well as the next 2 days.  It was just a smoking building, and footage of the World Trade Center buildings collapsing over and over.  It wasn't until the next few days after 9/11 that footage and images of the planes emerged, all from very mysterious sources, but I won't go into that now.

This is true.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 26, 2009, 05:52:46 am
Do you understand what video compression does to compress an image?

Not again. I'm asking you a question and you're weaseling around the answer. What does video compression do to compress an image? You tell me.

Quote
Do you know what happens when a video is expanded and pixels have to be generated to fill the space?

Tell us. What does this have to do with the images at hand? You got the floor.

You're a girl, right? No offense, but I'm 100% sure you're a girl by the way you're acting all emotional here.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 06:01:16 am
Not again. I'm asking you a question and you're weaseling around the answer. What does video compression do to compress an image? You tell me.
It changes it, sometimes drastically.

Now can you tell me what video compression was used on the picture you keep showing, how many compressions and expansions its been through, and then can you tell me what was used to magify it and what the computer did when it was expanded... of and can you tell me if any anti-aliasing has been used.

Thanks.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 26, 2009, 06:21:21 am
Quote
Now can you tell me what video compression was used on the picture you keep showing

I didn't post or show any picture. At all. You're doing it again. You are asking me questions about things I never said, did or posted. Get your facts straight, lady.

Quote
how many compressions and expansions its been through,

How would I know? Did I make the picture? Did I make the film? No!

Quote
and then can you tell me what was used to magify it


You sound like a crazy person. Did I magnify the picture? No!

Quote
and what the computer did when it was expanded... of and can you tell me if any anti-aliasing has been used.

I don't know. Was any anti-aliasing used? Do you have proof for that? You are babbling incoherently, you're making the truth movement sound like mindless kooks and I have had enough of it.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 06:33:52 am
Sorry, I got confused, you and kushfiend are pushing the same stuff.

You've got to produce a "nose out" video that you've examined and prove it's a fake as you claim.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 26, 2009, 06:49:06 am
Another accusation. I'm not pushing anything, and I don't agree with anyone else on this thread. I have explained my stance to you at least 5 times, and you still don't get it right.

I told you, I believe there were planes. But, apparently you are not interested in an honest discussion, you're just acting here. Everyone who is not with you is against you. So you put me in the same category with everybody else. I've had it with you.

I'm done answering to your blabber. You're making everyone look bad. Bye bye young lady.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 06:51:26 am
Wrong, you can see the effect on the original videos, too. Go to archive.org and check it out for yourself. Nose-out is not "a lie". Be precise, what exactly is a lie, and how?

You're still pushing "nose out".

So lets discuss your videos.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 26, 2009, 07:17:59 am
You're still pushing "nose out".

So lets discuss your videos.

"nose out" doesn't mean "no planes". At least not in my book. I have explained that.

My videos? What do you mean? I said "videos from archive.org" (though I am not sure whether they are still on there). Can you find the video for yourself or do you need help? Seriously, I could help you find it IF you have an open mind and I'm not wasting my time.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 07:44:01 am
Can you find the video for yourself or do you need help?

Can you link it.

You said "nose out" is not a lie.

But it is, unless you going to get semantic.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 26, 2009, 02:22:49 pm
Voskhod you're great at ignoring good claims and then asking other questions unrelated!  Just look at this video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZryf1sZBQc#t=3m12s

No plane, then a plane is ADDED.  I mean come on now, you think you've woke up but you're still sleep walking.

Okay maybe exposing this no plane thing is bad for the movement, but I'm sorry there is just too much evidence of video fakery.  It's just so fricking blatant.
Can any of you who don't think the videos on 911 were tampered with explain this video at 3mins 12 seconds?? HELLO???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZryf1sZBQc#t=3m12s
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 26, 2009, 02:24:32 pm
Voskhod you're great at ignoring good claims and then asking other questions unrelated!  Just look at this video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZryf1sZBQc#t=3m12s

No plane, then a plane is ADDED.  I mean come on now, you think you've woke up but you're still sleep walking.

Okay maybe exposing this no plane thing is bad for the movement, but I'm sorry there is just too much evidence of video fakery.  It's just so fricking blatant.
Can any of you who don't think the videos on 911 were tampered with explain this video at 3mins 12 seconds?? HELLO???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZryf1sZBQc#t=3m12s

You're wasting your breath, Vok is a govt. shill that won't argue facts

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on June 26, 2009, 02:56:33 pm
Voskhod you're great at ignoring good claims and then asking other questions unrelated!  Just look at this video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZryf1sZBQc#t=3m12s

No plane, then a plane is ADDED.  I mean come on now, you think you've woke up but you're still sleep walking.

Okay maybe exposing this no plane thing is bad for the movement, but I'm sorry there is just too much evidence of video fakery.  It's just so fricking blatant.
Can any of you who don't think the videos on 911 were tampered with explain this video at 3mins 12 seconds?? HELLO???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZryf1sZBQc#t=3m12s

What is the source of the video? When did it surface? How do you know the plane hasn't been removed and then a fake plane added later? Where is the video from? The guy who made the video should know right? But there is no information about that. Its weird how you people believe that fake planes can be rendered into live footage but somehow it isnt possible to remove a plane from a video 7 years after the fact. Even I would be able to do that since it really arent many frames you have to change, you could do it manually frame by frame and wont be able to find out after a new encoding of the video. Gimme a HQ video and I edit the plane out for you.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 04:04:40 pm
You're wasting your breath, Vok is a govt. shill that won't argue facts

I'm one of the few who deals in facts.

Just how did they control the thousands witnesses and their recorded images?

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 26, 2009, 04:06:42 pm
Hey I found this.

This is smoking gun evidence of a faked WTC impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj6oFU84H3k&feature=channel_page

Now I'm changing my mind.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 09:35:06 am
Quote
Do you understand what video compression does to compress an image?

Do you know what happens when a video is expanded and pixels have to be generated to fill the space?

ok lets see how much you know about video compression, well yea get ready for some wikipedia pastes. well i thought you were the one asking for experts, are you a video expert ? do you work in audio ? do you work in a studio ? please do tell us your so expertise.

video compression would not alter the point he is showing you in that picture, i could convert that to a gif and you could still see the building is still intact and the plane has disappeared. i will post a video to show you what a plane looks like when it crashes into cement.

but please let us get back to your knowledge on video. how can the point you mentioned earlier make any difference to every single one of the points that people have mentioned in the footages.

you say uhh what about compression, but you don't realy understand what compression is. todays video compression, the codecs, have come a long way at retaining quality and reducing size. so your attempt at stated the video is some how misinterpret the video because we are not sufficiently knowledgeable about video and audio is preposterous.

edit: here is the video plane and concrete : http://udn1.com/plane and concrete.avi (http://udn1.com/plane and concrete.avi)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 09:50:25 am
I'm one of the few who deals in facts.

Just how did they control the thousands witnesses and their recorded images?

OK, name at least 1000 eye witnesses then and proof for each and every one of them, that they were really there and could see the event. You said thousands of witnesses, so name at least a 1000 so we know you're not just repeating a line you heard on some radio show. You're dealing in facts, right? So, establish this fact for us.

You don't have to know all the names by yourself. Just post a link to a list of at least 1000 witnesses. That will do.

If you can't do that, tell me what constitutes a fact for you. Let's establish some real facts here, NOT based on what we saw on TV.

Just to remind everyone, I'm the guy who believes there were in fact planes on 9/11, but the pictures we saw on TV were obviously altered, manipulated and faked. So, what proof do you have that they were not faked? The media lied to you before, didn't they? They even showed you a CGI Bin Laden confessing. Do you believe that?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 27, 2009, 09:56:26 am
you say uhh what about compression, but you don't realy understand what compression is. todays video compression, the codecs, have come a long way at retaining quality and reducing size.

Yes.. so can you tell me what codecs the pictures you keep posting have been through.

Thanks.

[/quote]
edit: here is the video plane and concrete : http://udn1.com/plane and concrete.avi (http://udn1.com/plane and concrete.avi)
[/quote]

Irrelevant.

The WTC wasn't solid concrete and was in fact 43% nothing (but glass).
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 10:11:42 am
a plane with aluminum fuselage will not slice through steel and concrete even when travelling at the maximum speed possible at the altitude of a building like wtc. the plane would break apart as it hits the steel outside and possible some of it might go through the windows like the titanium engines. but it would most definitely not leave a plane shaped hole in the building. it is just not possible.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: White Rose Sophie on June 27, 2009, 10:13:41 am

The WTC wasn't solid concrete and was in fact 43% nothing (but glass).

Wasn't there a fair bit of steel involved in the WTC construction?  And wasn't it built to withstand a hit from a Boeing 707 from the beginning?

In that video - I don't see much 'glass' breaking, do you?   ???

I do believe something hit it, but a 757 I have my doubts about. 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 10:19:47 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtV8yITqa4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtV8yITqa4)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 27, 2009, 10:28:42 am
Wasn't there a fair bit of steel involved in the WTC construction?  And wasn't it built to withstand a hit from a Boeing 707 from the beginning?

In that video - I don't see much 'glass' breaking, do you?   ???

I do believe something hit it, but a 757 I have my doubts about.  

It's 43% glass.

(http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/StillDiggin/WhatHole.jpg)

43% nothing but glass.

Go on.. do some geometry.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 10:28:50 am
And wasn't it built to withstand a hit from a Boeing 707 from the beginning?

"Withstand" as in "not collapse" yes. "Withstand" as in "the plane would not crash into it but be deflected somehow".. erm.. no.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 27, 2009, 10:31:29 am
"Withstand" as in "not collapse" yes. "Withstand" as in "the plane would not crash into it but be deflected somehow".. erm.. no.

I wouldn't call it crashing as much as "fusing into" the WTC building
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 27, 2009, 10:33:36 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtV8yITqa4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtV8yITqa4)

So.. you don't want to continue discussing video compression.

Is that because you have no idea how your videos have been compressed/expanded?

And now you move on to a youtube person explaining how to create CGI planes.

Listen.. WE KNOW it's possible to create CGI planes.

However you have to explain why any supposed faker would fake an impact 20 minutes after the first one, thus drawing the attention to thousands of people to the towers, and think they could control all their witness statements and recorded images!

Well?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 10:36:12 am
ofcourse it would impact the towers but it would not make a massive hole.

that picture you posted voskhod3 is from the side of the building where no plane impacted. the impact areas show big holes.

(http://www.nomoregames.net/911/we_have_holes/woman_wtc.jpg)

the damage is only consistent with a missile impact and/or military grade/demolition grade explosives.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 27, 2009, 10:37:50 am
So.. you don't want to continue discussing video compression.

Is that because you have no idea how your videos have been compressed/expanded?

And now you move on to a youtube person explaining how to create CGI planes.

Listen.. WE KNOW it's possible to create CGI planes.

However you have to explain why any supposed faker would fake an impact 20 minutes after the first one, thus drawing the attention to thousands of people to the towers, and think they could control all their witness statements and recorded images!

Well?

No one knows why the govt. did 9/11, tons of things don't make sense about that day. We'll prolly never know "why" the NWO agents and provocateurs did what they did.

All I know is, is that this is an obvious forgery:
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/uploads/ats45388_050906wflight175.jpg)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 27, 2009, 10:41:04 am
All I know is, is that this is an obvious forgery:
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/uploads/ats45388_050906wflight175.jpg)

I don't know which of the 50+ videos that is (if it is one of those).. why is it an obvious forgery?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 10:44:12 am
Quote
So.. you don't want to continue discussing video compression.

Is that because you have no idea how your videos have been compressed/expanded?

And now you move on to a youtube person explaining how to create CGI planes.

Listen.. WE KNOW it's possible to create CGI planes.

However you have to explain why any supposed faker would fake an impact 20 minutes after the first one, thus drawing the attention to thousands of people to the towers, and think they could control all their witness statements and recorded images!

Well?

what information do you require regarding video compression?

why would they fake an impact ? well if you had actually read all my posts maybe you wouldn't need to keep asking the same questions. you ask me why they did it that way, well that was their plan and that is what they did. why did they destroy the buildings ? cause they are crazy ? they want to turn everyone against muslims and take away our rights ?

your logic is this, why would they do all that when it would be "easier" to fly actual planes into the buildings is not sufficient justification for it not to be true.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 10:45:59 am
All I know is, is that this is an obvious forgery:
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/uploads/ats45388_050906wflight175.jpg)

That looks like a nose and not like an airplane engine, does it?

Voskhod, are you saying, this image is fake? No, you don't because you would be admitting to TV fakery. Have you checked the TV archives to disprove the authencity of this image?

Voskhod are you saying, this is an airplane engine? Are you blind? Does that look like an engine to you?

Voskhod, are you saying, this is not a "nose-out"? What is it then? Hint: a plane flew into the building. Guess.

Pick one.

Voskhod where are your facts? Have you provided one single piece of factual evidence in this thread? Nope. You keep spouting rhetoric, hypotheticals, your opinions, your beliefs, but no facts at all.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 10:47:11 am
I wouldn't call it crashing as much as "fusing into" the WTC building

Anyway, "withstand" doesn't mean "not damaged" but "not collapse". You were taking the architects quote out of context.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 11:04:15 am
regardless of the fact that the building is made to withstand impacts. i am saying the damage is not consistent with a plane impact at all.

the picture shown, the reason why that is fake, well killtown pointed this out. is that that object sticking out the building does not move for a couple of frames while the explosion grows. thus it is not a real object.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 11:19:39 am
Pictures were being doctored, the TV studios do it all the time, have been caught doing it in the past.

But that doesn't mean there were no planes. It just does not logically follow. Is there nobody in the movement on either side of the discussion who understands logic just a bit and can grasp that argument?

"No-planers" don't seem to get it, they see the fake pictures and think, "if the planes on TV were fake that means there were no planes". Please, study logic. It does NOT follow.

"Mainstream-truthers" don't get it, they become aggressive and all self righteous and throw all reason and logic out of the window when confronted with TV fakery. Apparently you guys can't think logically, either. "you speak of TV fakery? You must be a no planer then. Because everything you see on TV is the truth".

Anybody here who has not been brainwashed by either side? It's sad, really.

Let me elaborate for you.

For a no-planer the argument goes like this:

1. If the images on TV were faked that means there were no planes. (which is a fallacy in itself, it's the logical mistake I'm talking about)

2. The images on TV were faked

Conclusion: There were no planes


For a mainstream-truther it goes like this:

1. If the images on TV were faked that means there were no planes. (which is a fallacy in itself)

2. There were planes

Conclusion: The images on TV were not faked.

Both are wrong, wrong, wrong.


here's what I think:

1. There is plenty of evidence for planes hitting the WTC.

2. There is plenty of evidence for TV fakery.

Conclusion: 1 and 2 are most probably true. There were planes AND the images were doctored. IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

ALEX? anyone?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 27, 2009, 11:30:15 am
what information do you require regarding video compression?

why would they fake an impact ? well if you had actually read all my posts maybe you wouldn't need to keep asking the same questions. you ask me why they did it that way, well that was their plan and that is what they did. why did they destroy the buildings ? cause they are crazy ? they want to turn everyone against muslims and take away our rights ?

your logic is this, why would they do all that when it would be "easier" to fly actual planes into the buildings is not sufficient justification for it not to be true.

You have to tell me how they controlled the thousands of witnesses and their recorded images.

There is absolutely no way they could do that.. unless you can tell me how.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: White Rose Sophie on June 27, 2009, 11:35:56 am
Pictures were being doctored, the TV studios do it all the time, have been caught doing it in the past.

But that doesn't mean there were no planes. It just does not logically follow. Is there nobody in the movement on either side of the discussion who understands logic just a bit and can grasp that argument?

"No-planers" don't seem to get it, they see the fake pictures and think, "if the planes on TV were fake that means there were no planes". Please, study logic. It does NOT follow.

"Mainstream-truthers" don't get it, they become aggressive and all self righteous and throw all reason and logic out of the window when confronted with TV fakery. Apparently you guys can't think logically, either. "you speak of TV fakery? You must be a no planer then. Because everything you see on TV is the truth".

Anybody here who has not been brainwashed by either side? It's sad, really.

Let me elaborate for you.

For a no-planer the argument goes like this:

1. If the images on TV were faked that means there were no planes. (which is a fallacy in itself, it's the logical mistake I'm talking about)

2. The images on TV were faked

Conclusion: There were no planes


For a mainstream-truther it goes like this:

1. If the images on TV were faked that means there were no planes. (which is a fallacy in itself)

2. There were planes

Conclusion: The images on TV were not faked.

Both are wrong, wrong, wrong.


here's what I think:

1. There is plenty of evidence for planes hitting the WTC.

2. There is plenty of evidence for TV fakery.

Conclusion: 1 and 2 are most probably true. There were planes AND the images were doctored. IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

ALEX? anyone?

Thank you.

It's not an either/or scenario, in my opinion.  Why WOULDN'T there be video fakes, produced in advance, just in case?  Any military commander worth his salt would plan for ALL contingencies, especially in an operation of this magnitude.

I don't get it either.  Network 'news' has been faked and KNOWN to have been faked many times in the past, why wouldn't it be this time?  That doesn't mean there were NO PLANES at all, just means the footage could be enhanced or fake too.

There are other issues that I would like to see addressed more thoroughly about the 'passengers' on those planes. 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 27, 2009, 11:36:17 am
That looks like a nose and not like an airplane engine, does it?
No it is what it is, you are projecting your wished onto it.

It looks like a debris plume to me.

It looks the same in many other videos.

Quote
Voskhod, are you saying, this image is fake? No, you don't because you would be admitting to TV fakery. Have you checked the TV archives to disprove the authencity of this image?

Can you prove it is a fake?

Quote
Voskhod are you saying, this is an airplane engine? Are you blind? Does that look like an engine to you?

It looks like a plume of debris.

Play the whole video.

Quote
Voskhod, are you saying, this is not a "nose-out"? What is it then? Hint: a plane flew into the building. Guess.
It's debris and the engine that landed in Murray street is part of it.

Quote
Voskhod where are your facts?
Thousands of people saw the second impact, it was on live TV from several angles and it was recorded on video 50+ times.
No member of the public has come forward and said "they faked my picture/video".
FACT!

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 12:05:45 pm
This ‘nose out’ business is incredibly stupid and so easy to disprove. The no planers say that the ‘nose out’ is the nose of a fake plane which was overlaid onto the TV footage. So if this correct that would mean that the ’nose out’ image only exists on that particular fake TV footage but as we know there is other footage which shows the ’nose out’ from different angles so there’s really nothing to discuss. The ‘nose out’ theory is nonsense.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 12:06:56 pm
my logic does not go, tv fakery = no planes, my logic goes: we have manufactured footage showing fake planes hitting the towers, why would they need to fake planes if there was actual planes hitting the towers. my logic goes, why is there no one at the airports waiting for the passengers of the flights when the media went their. why is there confusion in the media as to what actually hit the towers. why is the damage not consistent with a plane impact.

it is easier to fly missiles into all four locations and fake planes than it is to actually hijack planes and fly them into the four locations.

we have military jets spotted at shanksville, we have obvious missile impact at pentagon, we have two more missile impacts at wtc towers.

http://udn1.com/lets be open to the possiblity this was a missile attack.avi (http://udn1.com/lets be open to the possiblity this was a missile attack.avi)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 12:16:35 pm
It looks like a debris plume to me.

If that was the case, where is that same plume of debris in the next frame of the video? Can you show it to me, please?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 12:17:26 pm
Quote
This ‘nose out’ business is incredibly stupid and so easy to disprove. The no planers say that the ‘nose out’ is the nose of a fake plane which was overlaid onto the TV footage. So if this correct that would mean that the ’nose out’ image only exists on that particular fake TV footage but as we know there is other footage which shows the ’nose out’ from different angles so there’s really nothing to discuss. The ‘nose out’ theory is nonsense.

the nose out is but one point with many many others available. just because another video has what looks like something that could be considered a nose out, does not in anyway prove that the video is not fake.

you must realize that the wabc and wnyw footage has completely vanished. i am refering to abc and fox new york. the only scrapings of footage we have is via cross feeds onto other stations, and the famous 2nd impact that nico came across on youtube which he used in september clues. that specific footage is shown in the footage i just posted above. but this time on cnn with a massive banner across it. you must realize that the wnyw footage that was found on youtube does not just contain the nose out problem. it has more problems...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 12:18:19 pm
my logic goes, why is there no one at the airports waiting for the passengers of the flights when the media went their.

Sounds like a good argument there. Got reliable, primary sources for that?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 12:23:42 pm
it was on live TV from several angles and it was recorded on video 50+ times.

Ooooh so it was live on TV, yeah, of course it must be true then. That's your FACTS?!
Thanks for illustrating my point. Do you believe everything you see and hear on TV?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 12:27:58 pm
well i think your attempt at being argumentative is futile.

i mean come on, you pick one point and then use some sort of reverse psychology on the matter.

what can i say to that, uhh ofcourse the media lies. no i don't believe everything the media says... uhh f**k..

well when i say the media, i am talking about footage of a man standing at the airport with mic saying, there are no people waiting for these passengers...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 12:29:57 pm
four missiles and three controlled demos
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 27, 2009, 12:30:32 pm
How do they control 1000s of witnesses?
Well to start off imagine the shock people are in on that day, they think they saw this and that, so much is going on, then the huge TVs in Times Square, radio, news reporters (as shown in the vid below) are all immediately saying plane plane plane.  Immediately most who think they saw something, and it happened so fast, will go along with the 757 plane theory.

I've seen dozens of videos where people report seeing other things besides a 757. 

So to address your statement "How did they control 1000s of witnesses?" please check the assorted videos below, all show witnesses claiming something other then a 757 hit.  Keep in mind these are just the ones I can think of off the top of the head.

Here is one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AfTyOyKEEQ

"No second plane, it was a bomb! Bomb in the building, no second plane.  I saw everything."

Another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3cpHxbIIV4

"Were getting REPORTS that a plane hit the building"
"OH? I didn't even know that."

Another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXIxbhgUDw

BG: Alright, so tell us what you saw if you would?

S: I literally, I was waiting a table and I literally saw a -- it seemed to be like the small plane. I just heard a couple of noises. It looked like it bounced off the building and then I heard, uh, I saw a huge like ball of fire on top and then the smoke seemed to simmer down and it just stunned -- you know a lot of smoke was coming out and that's pretty much the extent of what I saw.

BG: A private aircraft?

S: I'm not sure, if it was a -- it just seemed like a smaller plane. I don't think it was anything commercial.

Another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS5lFVxr4A8

"Some people said they THOUGHT THEY SAW A MISSILE"  Magically cut out from news footage.

Another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49deDpOyfHA

"That was NOT and American Airline!"

And to top it off a collection of witness accounts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5o_-KItOZU

I'll try to post more as they come to mind, but until then, here you are Voskhod3
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 12:31:18 pm
we have military jets spotted at shanksville, we have obvious missile impact at pentagon, we have two more missile impacts at wtc towers.


Why do you write stuff like that? Don't you feel stupid?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 12:39:25 pm
refering to the camera planet footage, all that footage is edited, you can not trust one single clip.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 12:44:40 pm
Quote
Why do you write stuff like that? Don't you feel stupid?

why would i feel stupid, forgive me for trying to push my point of view on this event. please explain to me why i would feel stupid?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 12:45:45 pm
Lots of people have gone on the record to say that when the second plane crashed into the towers hundreds of body parts rained down onto the street below. Some described the street as looking like a butchers shop. Amongst the body parts was a shoe, a child's shoe which had the child's severed foot still in it.

How do you no planers explain that?  
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 12:46:48 pm
why would i feel stupid, forgive me for trying to push my point of view on this event. please explain to me why i would feel stupid?

If you seriously think that missiles hit the towers you must be crazy.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 12:49:45 pm
please supply the source for your claims.

i do not think i am crazy, you are crazy.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 12:51:29 pm
please supply the source for your claims.

i do not think i am crazy, you are crazy.

My source is the Oral Histories. Try reading them yourself it will stop you looking foolish.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 12:53:01 pm
the oral histories is nothing more transcripts that came out years afterwards, you have to be joking if you think that proves anything hahaha
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 01:01:28 pm
the oral histories is nothing more transcripts that came out years afterwards, you have to be joking if you think that proves anything hahaha

You really are a piece of work. So far on this page you've mentioned Nico, Killtown and now you're dissing the first responders you should be ashamed of yourself. Do you really think we are as stupid as you are?

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 01:01:41 pm
i am talking about footage of a man standing at the airport with mic saying, there are no people waiting for these passengers...

In other words, you saw it on TV? Details please!

Who is this man?
At which airport is he standing?
When is the man standing there?
Where did you see it?
Who produced the footage?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 01:09:44 pm
sure nico and killtown or who ever they are very eccentric individuals, but the best characters always are. i do not agree with some of the ways they produce their videos and ofcourse they have made mistakes in pointing out certain issues with the footage, but their general opinion on the footage looks sincere.

i do not appreciate your anger regarding this issue, like i have said previously on this thread, it takes humility to accept that you have been fooled, it was not instantly that i was convinced. this is why i have spent so much time on this to see if this theory has any validity.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 01:10:22 pm
Quote
In other words, you saw it on TV? Details please!

Who is this man?
At which airport is he standing?
When is the man standing there?
Where did you see it?
Who produced the footage?

allow me time to generate this footage for you.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 01:17:10 pm
WTF is going on on these boards these days? What about the statement that was issued which stated that the NPT would not be tolereted on here because it's obviously cointel?? When did that get reversed? Jim goes on the missing list and suddenly the no planers come crawling out of the woodwork. I'm sick of this bullshit it's getting like the David Icke 911 forum on here now.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 01:20:31 pm
why do you treat this theory with such disgust?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 27, 2009, 01:29:52 pm
WTF is going on on these boards these days? What about the statement that was issued which stated that the NPT would not be tolereted on here because it's obviously cointel?? When did that get reversed? Jim goes on the missing list and suddenly the no planers come crawling out of the woodwork. I'm sick of this bullshit it's getting like the David Icke 911 forum on here now.

I hear you.  What a farce.  In the entire thread there has been one link that provides "some" evidence to bolster the NPT in the form of taped diced up phone calls by somebody in Canada questioning people who apparently had filmed or photographed the strikes.  That is all there is and it is quite unsubstantiated.  People using Nico and Killtown as reliable sources are suffering from a serious lack of deductive reasoning.  Discrediting the oral histories of the fire dept taken within 3 months of the event is indicative of the lack of knowledge exhibited by those arguing this nonsense.  Sekular if you dont know who Graeme Macqueen is do some investigation -- why not go look at what accreditted individuals have to say instead of unstable delusional ranters??

Give us some experts that corroborate your claims Give us some experts that corroborate your claims Give us some experts that corroborate your claims Give us some experts that corroborate your claims Give us some experts that corroborate your claims Give us some experts that corroborate your claims Give us some experts that corroborate your claims Give us some experts that corroborate your claims Give us some experts that corroborate your claims

They cant so they wont.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 27, 2009, 01:31:33 pm
why do you treat this theory with such disgust?

Because it defies rational thought.  Why dont you research the work of people who have credentials instead of the spoutings of those that neurons are misfiring.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 01:37:20 pm
why do you treat this theory with such disgust?

Are you kidding? When the 911 truth movement first came about it was us against the world. Every forum that you went on and tried to discuss that it was an inside job would turn on you and rain down the insults. Over time this started to change and you'd find others coming to back you up and then more and more people would be on your side and there was hope, the movement was really started to grow. Than along come the no planers. These lot were different to the 911 truthers and would attack anyone who didn't go along with their bullshit. They attacked the first responders like you just have, they attacked Luke and the We Are Change guys. They were intent on causing a split in the 911 truth movement which they have done a splendid job of. You say that Nico and Killtown are eccentrics well that kind of gives your hand away because anyone who's been around for a while knows full well that they are Co Intel.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 01:47:36 pm
oh please.

your perception is kinder garden logic.

the movement has continued to grow regardless of the no planers. don't blame them for some sort of split that you have created in your mind.

no planers do not insult the first responders, the fact that transcripts are not proof does not insult the first responders it merely asks why hasn't the original audio of the interviews been released, hell it took years before they released any of the audio from the day, fire fighter audio, norad tapes, 911 calls tapes etc. you try and get footage from the day from any radio station in new york, you will find the same difficulty you will find trying to locate any more msm footage.

they only "attacked" luke and wearechange because they get hostile and started calling them co intel pro, they still to this day struggle with all their might against the no plane theory. now this i struggle to understand. i would not be surprised if you are a member of wearechange uk. you guys think you are the final voice in the 911 truth movement, like if you don't agree then it is co intel pro. well i have news for you, there are 10000s of people that investigated the events on that day and they are not members of your little gang.

now don't get me wrong, i have the up most respect for luke and what he has done for 911 truth and i appreciate the work done by we are change across the globe and i continue to check their video and watch their live broadcast on a sunday evening. on a side note, we are change first edition was on the right track, who ever got involved on the 2nd edition definitely got you to disregard the missile aspect...
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 01:59:11 pm

they only "attacked" luke and wearechange because they get hostile and started calling them co intel pro, they still to this day struggle with all their might against the no plane theory. now this i struggle to understand. i would not be surprised if you are a member of wearechange uk. you guys think you are the final voice in the 911 truth movement, like if you don't agree then it is co intel pro. well i have news for you, there are 10000s of people that investigated the events on that day and they are not members of your little gang.

Struggle with that all you like everyone else knows they're Co Intel. And no I'm not a member or supporter of wearechange Uk for reasons which are none of your business.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 27, 2009, 02:02:20 pm
oh please.

your perception is kinder garden logic.

the movement has continued to grow regardless of the no planers. don't blame them for some sort of split that you have created in your mind.

no planers do not insult the first responders, the fact that transcripts are not proof does not insult the first responders it merely asks why hasn't the original audio of the interviews been released, hell it took years before they released any of the audio from the day, fire fighter audio, norad tapes, 911 calls tapes etc. you try and get footage from the day from any radio station in new york, you will find the same difficulty you will find trying to locate any more msm footage.

they only "attacked" luke and wearechange because they get hostile and started calling them co intel pro, they still to this day struggle with all their might against the no plane theory. now this i struggle to understand. i would not be surprised if you are a member of wearechange uk. you guys think you are the final voice in the 911 truth movement, like if you don't agree then it is co intel pro. well i have news for you, there are 10000s of people that investigated the events on that day and they are not members of your little gang.

You usually disappear for longer than that after being posed questions by myself.  SEKULAR why do you weasel away from all my questions?
 



Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 02:07:09 pm
i know i have accused someone from your side of disregarding my posts and ignoring my questions.

but i am not aware of any questions that i have disregarded from yourself, please repeat the question and i will attempt to answer it .
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 02:12:28 pm
sekcular you've come here specifically to push the no plane garbage. You've only posted in the 911 threads since you arrived. Why don't you post in all the other threads on all the other subjects? They don't interest you huh?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 02:16:30 pm
just face is bitches, no plane theory if true is about as far as you can get from co intel pro.

now lets remember what co intel pro is.

corporate intelligence professional.

i seriously doubt that any corporation would finance the application for a bunch of individuals to spout a theory that would divide the 911 truth movement, especially when the theory holds so much weight.

now i agree that it is possible and i would not rule it out and i myself have been plagued with this idea for many years now. it has at times caused me to question the theory to the point to which you could not have reached yet as you have not given it the time of day.

as long as you can accept that i am sincere in my research and that i am not out to malicious harm the 911 truth movement then i can rest at that you are just not convinced by the available points/evidences.

but please atleast grant the individuals that believe in this aspect some respect.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 27, 2009, 02:22:10 pm
I was going to ask you to choose but instead I have a better question.

Why is it that you seem to adhere to the ideas put forth by those of questionable repute (Nico, killtown probably Fetzer et al) yet seem to disregard those that have solid credibility.  What I would also like addressed is your sheer lack of any expert corroboration despite your numerous rhetorical arguments?

Oh I would hope that your response would hold some water and integrity although I do expect something like "credibility is in the eye of the beholder" or "you dont have the imagination to consider outside the box" or "we are all experts"

Okay SEKULAR give it a shot.

sekcular you've come here specifically to push the no plane garbage. You've only posted in the 911 threads since you arrived. Why don't you post in all the other threads on all the other subjects? They don't interest you huh?

I also have the same concerns.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 27, 2009, 02:23:49 pm
now lets remember what co intel pro is.

corporate intelligence professional.

i seriously doubt that any corporation would finance the application for a bunch of individuals to spout a theory that would divide the 911 truth movement, especially when the theory holds so much weight.

now i agree that it is possible and i would not rule it out and i myself have been plagued with this idea for many years now. it has at times caused me to question the theory to the point to which you could not have reached yet as you have not given it the time of day.

as long as you can accept that i am sincere in my research and that i am not out to malicious harm the 911 truth movement then i can rest at that you are just not convinced by the available points/evidences.

but please atleast grant the individuals that believe in this aspect some respect.

thank you.

Jesus are you for real??? It's Counter Intelligence you donut. Are you double bluffing here or what? I don't think anyone who's involved in 911 truth could be so stupid.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 27, 2009, 02:24:57 pm



as long as you can accept that i am sincere in my research and that i am not out to malicious harm the 911 truth movement then i can rest at that you are just not convinced by the available points/evidences.



Oh one more question -- what research?  I heard somebody say that September Clues was their main source of research (was that you). Hahahaha
watching a movie is considered research these days.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 27, 2009, 02:29:22 pm
now lets remember what co intel pro is.

corporate intelligence professional.

Nope, it's Counter Intelligence Program. Let's remember THAT..
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 02:31:33 pm
so you guys think you have it... your attitude is that of someone who thinks they have ridiculed the theory enough that you no longer need to entertain the idea, give it a chance. well i could show you more points but i think without going into the research with an open mind on the theory being a possibility you will not see the all the points match up.

take the official investigation, they did not consider controlled demo, if they had just considered it. they would have seen all the points fall into place. if you even consider no planes, you will see all the points that fall into place.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 27, 2009, 02:34:56 pm
so you guys think you have it... your attitude is that of someone who thinks they have ridiculed the theory enough that you no longer need to entertain the idea, give it a chance. well i could show you more points but i think without going into the research with an open mind on the theory being a possibility you will not see the all the points match up.

take the official investigation, they did not consider controlled demo, if they had just considered it. they would have seen all the points fall into place. if you even consider no planes, you will see all the points that fall into place.

Haven't addressed my questions yet!!!  You asked.  But I imagine your integrity is as great as your reasoning skills.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 02:37:52 pm
what question, now you offer quite a low blow and insult my integrity. what do you want to know, who i am?

i mean i live in the uk, london, i am 25, i work in IT. i am just someone who has spent time on 911.

co intel pro, that was my mistake, i always thought it meant corporate intelligence professional.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 02:45:34 pm
if no plane was a counter intelligence program that would have been one hell of a preemptive operation.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 27, 2009, 02:49:03 pm
what question, now you offer quite a low blow and insult my integrity. what do you want to know, who i am?

i mean i live in the uk, london, i am 25, i work in IT. i am just someone who has spent time on 911.

co intel pro, that was my mistake, i always thought it meant corporate intelligence professional.

I dont care who you are.

If you are in fact genuine you should not only be feeling an attack on you integrity but your intelligence more importantly.  Maybe your memory is also faulty but here is a lineup of a few posts all made within the last hour -- ring a bell?

You usually disappear for longer than that after being posed questions by myself.  SEKULAR why do you weasel away from all my questions?
 


i know i have accused someone from your side of disregarding my posts and ignoring my questions.

but i am not aware of any questions that i have disregarded from yourself, please repeat the question and i will attempt to answer it .

I was going to ask you to choose but instead I have a better question.

Why is it that you seem to adhere to the ideas put forth by those of questionable repute (Nico, killtown probably Fetzer et al) yet seem to disregard those that have solid credibility.  What I would also like addressed is your sheer lack of any expert corroboration despite your numerous rhetorical arguments?

Oh I would hope that your response would hold some water and integrity although I do expect something like "credibility is in the eye of the beholder" or "you dont have the imagination to consider outside the box" or "we are all experts"

Okay SEKULAR give it a shot.


and now this again for fun -- hahaha
what question, now you offer quite a low blow and insult my integrity. what do you want to know, who i am?

i mean i live in the uk, london, i am 25, i work in IT. i am just someone who has spent time on 911.

co intel pro, that was my mistake, i always thought it meant corporate intelligence professional.




Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 02:50:31 pm
yes so what is your question grapecrusher1?



Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 27, 2009, 02:54:19 pm
Okay I have decided not to be mean anymore.  You say you have done a lot of 911 research? what?


Why is it that you seem to adhere to the ideas put forth by those of questionable repute (Nico, killtown probably Fetzer et al) yet seem to disregard those that have solid credibility.  What I would also like addressed is your sheer lack of any expert corroboration despite your numerous rhetorical arguments?

Oh I would hope that your response would hold some water and integrity although I do expect something like "credibility is in the eye of the beholder" or "you dont have the imagination to consider outside the box" or "we are all experts"




Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 27, 2009, 03:01:57 pm
kevin ryan on 911 experts... http://udn1.com/no experts.avi (http://udn1.com/no experts.avi)

i have considered every expert every eye witness and every video i have come across. if you have new footage please let me know i am more than willing to be convinced that no plane theory is a massive preemptive counter intelligence program.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: TheCaliKid on June 27, 2009, 04:49:23 pm
No one knows why the govt. did 9/11, tons of things don't make sense about that day. We'll prolly never know "why" the NWO agents and provocateurs did what they did.

9 to 11 - you skip 10. Someone once said that God was 10....skipping God?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on June 27, 2009, 05:19:08 pm
9 to 11 - you skip 10. Someone once said that God was 10....skipping God?

huh?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: TheCaliKid on June 27, 2009, 05:21:56 pm

It was somewhere in here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECqvRV9YK4Y (part 1 of 10 parts)

Sorry, that's about all I know.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 28, 2009, 12:44:43 pm
Is the possibility of TV fakery (NOT "no-planes") also a Counter Intelligence Program?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 28, 2009, 03:16:39 pm
that guy is a crack pot
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 28, 2009, 04:01:39 pm
the real counter intelligence program is the anti no plane rhetoric
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 28, 2009, 05:16:40 pm
I don't think the no plane theories are plausible, not at all.

I'm willing to listen though. And I don't think you should be attacked for your views in the way it's happening here (on a personal level, calling you something less than human, etc.)

TV fakery - yes! No planes on 9/11? INSANE
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 28, 2009, 05:24:27 pm
About the supposed reporter who was at some airport not seeing family members of victims (from September Clues 2008):

Who is this man?
At which airport is he standing?
When is the man standing there?
Where did you see it?
Who produced the footage?

For starters, if there is a decent no-plane researcher willing to answer these questions with WORDS, not by sending me a link to some film, I would be grateful. Until then I'll not even take you seriously.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Southern Patriot on June 28, 2009, 11:29:18 pm
Quote
TV fakery - yes! No planes on 9/11? INSANE

Operation Northwoods suggested bringing down a plane or supposed plane with a fake passenger manifest and blaming it on Cuba to gain public support for an invasion. It suggested that a real plane or passengers wasn't even necessary so long as the media reported it as real and the public believed it.
This was originally conceived in 1958 and brought before Kennedy as an option in 1961. Kennedy refused to even consider such an option and subsequently delivered the famous "secret society" speech.
You can't say that it isn't possible. It is entirely possible and planned for over 40 years before the deed was done. Watch the videos, no one reacts until the explosion in the audio. Watch the NBC footage where the guy say "No! No plane...Bomb!" and the guy who said "I didn't see a plane..Just an explosion." The reporter cuts him off saying "Well there was another plane. We just seen it on TV."
George Bush said he saw the first plane hit on TV before going into the Florida classroom and initially thought it was an accident when there was no footage ever produced of the first impact.
So...Say it is insane all you would like....That still doesn't make it impossible!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 29, 2009, 01:22:37 am
TV fakery - yes! No planes on 9/11? INSANE

How many members of the public have come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture"?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: KiwiClare on June 29, 2009, 02:14:42 am
 
How many members of the public have come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture"?

I don't know how people can believe that there were no planes on 9/11 when so many people in New York saw and heard them. What a waste of time this thread becomes when people defend the crackpot notion. 

sekular has been banned for being abusive and writing unsubstantiated 'no planer' cointel pro twaddle.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 29, 2009, 02:40:00 am
Say it is insane all you would like....That still doesn't make it impossible!

Look, EVERYTHING is possible. We are talking about what is PLAUSIBLE here. Big difference.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: KiwiClare on June 29, 2009, 03:10:33 am
Look, EVERYTHING is possible. We are talking about what is PLAUSIBLE here. Big difference.


I assume you are referring to planet earth when you made the statement that "EVERYTHING is possible"?
Laws have been established by numerous scientists to show that matter/life/energy abide by rules, so perhaps they would probably disagree with you that everything is possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 29, 2009, 03:18:27 pm
Science is nothing than a long list of corrected mistakes. That's why everything is possible (except maybe semantics, where something is X and not X at the same time... well in the realm of quantum physics maybe...)

But, as I said, we are talking about what is plausible, not what is possible.

Of course it's possible to control thousands of witnesses. It's just not very plausible.

The notion of TV fakery, OTOH, is entirely plausible. Just look at the fake Bin Laden tapes. Look at BBC and CNN reporting the collapse of building 7 before it happened.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 29, 2009, 03:19:15 pm
How many members of the public have come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture"?

Don't know, don't care. Doesn't matter.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 29, 2009, 03:52:28 pm
Don't know, don't care. Doesn't matter.

So what are you supposing that hit the towers?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 29, 2009, 04:15:05 pm
There are these thingies they call "planes". You know, as in "planes hit the towers".

Read any of my posts in this threat. I made that abundandly clear. I believe planes hit the towers.

Anyone NOT on fluoride here?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 29, 2009, 04:24:42 pm
There are these thingies they call "planes". You know, as in "planes hit the towers".

Read any of my posts in this threat. I made that abundandly clear. I believe planes hit the towers.

Anyone NOT on fluoride here?


So what do you mean when you say ''tv fakery - yes''?


I don't think the no plane theories are plausible, not at all.

I'm willing to listen though. And I don't think you should be attacked for your views in the way it's happening here (on a personal level, calling you something less than human, etc.)

TV fakery - yes! No planes on 9/11? INSANE
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 29, 2009, 04:41:39 pm
So what do you mean when you say ''tv fakery - yes''?

TV fakery does not mean "no planes". I don't like repeating myself over and over because people are reading impaired. Here is my post in this thread, I explained my point already. Look:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=52366.msg709962#msg709962 (http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=52366.msg709962#msg709962)

Have you ever studied basic logic?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 29, 2009, 04:58:47 pm
TV fakery does not mean "no planes". I don't like repeating myself over and over because people are reading impaired. Here is my post in this thread, I explained my point already. Look:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=52366.msg709962#msg709962 (http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=52366.msg709962#msg709962)

Have you ever studied basic logic?

Let me get this right - you're saying that the tv footage is possibly fake because you believe that there's evidence to prove this. And you're saying that you also believe that planes hit the towers because you also believe that there's evidence to prove this. That's a very unusual point of view and one that I've not heard before.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on June 29, 2009, 05:02:33 pm

Have you ever studied basic logic?

Yes and I am an adherent.



The notion of TV fakery, OTOH, is entirely plausible. Just look at the fake Bin Laden tapes. Look at BBC and CNN reporting the collapse of building 7 before it happened.

How you have used these examples as evidence of fakery on 911 is fantastic.
Those Bin Laden tapes are pure 100% fabrication bottom-line.(SO?)
  Yeah the BBC reported the collapse of wtc 7 early but where is the fakery?  Did they show us wtc7 collapsing before it did with a plane flying into it(because that would be the TV fakery definition I think of) NO?  what are you getting at in regards to TV fakery?

Your logic is not only flawed it is patently false which I hope is deliberate for your sake.
I could continue shredding your ridiculous assertions but that is enough. 
Still laughing how you invoke the idea of logic to support your points.  Hahaha
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 29, 2009, 06:06:17 pm
Quote
Who is this man?
At which airport is he standing?
When is the man standing there?
Where did you see it?
Who produced the footage?

the clip i was refering to is at the very end of the september clues 2008, now i didn't know it was in september clues as i had not seen this new version until yesterday. i had come across it in the footage itself while investigating the audio.

the man is a reporter for cnn, the footage was shown at around 12:30pm. three of the apparent planes were heading for lax. he is standing at lax. the footage was produced by cnn, it is apparently live at the time.

voshkod3 why are you insistent on repeating questions that have already been answered?

Quote
How many members of the public have come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture"?

like i said earlier in this thread regarding the collection of video tapes, what they would do with the video cameras afterwards is the least of the worries the person will have if they might have a video worth confiscating. there has been some phones calls to the audio/video professionals that produced amateur footage on the day, some of them would not even answer basic questions and would hang up. scared for their lives perhaps ?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: White Rose Sophie on June 29, 2009, 11:10:38 pm
Let me get this right - you're saying that the tv footage is possibly fake because you believe that there's evidence to prove this. And you're saying that you also believe that planes hit the towers because you also believe that there's evidence to prove this. That's a very unusual point of view and one that I've not heard before.

Did it every occur to anyone that planes did hit the towers...but maybe the footage was faked because they weren't 757 passenger jets?

Maybe that's what sekular is getting at.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 01:22:17 am
Did it every occur to anyone that planes did hit the towers...but maybe the footage was faked because they weren't 757 passenger jets?

NOT ONE member of the public has come forward and said "they faked my video/picture".

Not one.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 01:39:13 am
Let me get this right - you're saying that the tv footage is possibly fake because you believe that there's evidence to prove this.

Yes.

Quote
And you're saying that you also believe that planes hit the towers because you also believe that there's evidence to prove this.

Yes.

Quote
That's a very unusual point of view and one that I've not heard before.

Exactly. Thanks for acknowledging that. It's possible, and, looking at the history of TV fakery in the media (Bin Laden tapes), entirely plausible.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 01:41:04 am
Your logic is not only flawed it is patently false which I hope is deliberate for your sake.

Show me where it's false. All you did is ask questions. You said nothing to refute me.

Quote
I could continue shredding your ridiculous assertions but that is enough.

Is that all you got? Come on, refute me.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 01:42:42 am
Did it every occur to anyone that planes did hit the towers...but maybe the footage was faked because they weren't 757 passenger jets?

Maybe that's what sekular is getting at.

Sekular? Sekular believes there were no planes. My name is "Infokrieger" thank you.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 01:44:35 am
NOT ONE member of the public has come forward and said "they faked my video/picture".

So? What are you saying, what is your logic?

If no member if the public came forward (to your knowledge) claiming they faked their video, then it's impossible that any of the videos were fake?

Flawed logic. I didn't expect anything else from you. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 01:47:07 am
If no member if the public came forward (to your knowledge) claiming they faked their video, then it's impossible that any of the videos were fake?

If all the videos show the same thing and no member of the public has come forward and said 'they faked my video/picture' then I'm saying the planes as shown in the video hit the building.

That is my logic.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 01:51:41 am
How you have used these examples as evidence of fakery on 911 is fantastic.

Well thank you.

Quote
Those Bin Laden tapes are pure 100% fabrication bottom-line.(SO?)

Yes they are. That means, TV fakery in regard of 9/11 has been done before.

Quote
Yeah the BBC reported the collapse of wtc 7 early but where is the fakery?

OK, it was not fakery in the same sense as the Bin Laden tape. What I meant was, there were a lot of anomalies. Sorry.

Quote
Did they show us wtc7 collapsing before it did with a plane flying into it(because that would be the TV fakery definition I think of) NO? 

Nope. That doesn't mean that my logic is flawed. The point I'm making is, TV fakery is not the same as "no planes" theory. No planes is BS, TV fakery is something to look at. September Clues has some good analysis regarding TV fakery, but then comes up with the crack pot no planes theory. That's typical cointelpro, mix truth with deception and then have people throw out the whole thing.

Quote
what are you getting at in regards to TV fakery?

That it has been done before. Bin Laden tapes are sufficient to make that claim.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 30, 2009, 01:53:12 am
If all the videos show the same thing and no member of the public has come forward and said 'they faked my video/picture' then I'm saying the planes as shown in the video hit the building.

That is my logic.

So you're saying that it doesn't matter how much video evidence we prove to you, as long as the video shooters don't come forward you don't believe it.

Some logic.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 01:54:20 am
If all the videos show the same thing and no member of the public has come forward and said 'they faked my video/picture' then I'm saying the planes as shown in the video hit the building.

I'm not disputing that the planes hit the building. And your logic is flawed anyway, there is no connection of the premises to the conclusion. Please study logic, you're embarrassing yourself. Have a good day, lady.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 01:56:19 am
So you're saying that it doesn't matter how much video evidence we prove to you,
What have you proved?  

Quote
as long as the video shooters don't come forward you don't believe it.
No.. I'm pointing out the absurd logic that says the fakers planned a second impact 20 minutes after the first when thousands would be watching with a totally unknown amount of image capturing equipment and that they thought they could control that situation and that in fact they did.

That is completely absurd to believe that.

Unless you can tell me how they pulled off that miracle.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 01:56:51 am
I'm not disputing that the planes hit the building. And your logic is flawed anyway,

Point out the flaw in my logic.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 01:58:10 am
No.. I'm pointing out the absurd logic that says the fakers planned a second impact 20 minutes after the first when thousands would be watching with a totally unknown amount of image capturing equipment and that they thought they could control that situation and that in fact they did.

You're still discussing no-planes. That IS BS, but that is not what I am talking about. You're missing the point - again.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 01:59:36 am
Point out the flaw in my logic.

I just did. I said, there is no connection between premises and conclusion. That's the biggest flaw there is. I guess you didn't understand that so you chose to ignore it. Sad.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 01:59:42 am
You're still discussing no-planes. That IS BS, but that is not what I am talking about. You're missing the point - again.

No I'm not.. the same logic applies to 'no planes' or 'different planes'.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 02:00:58 am
I just did. I said, there is no connection between premises and conclusion.
No that is not pointing out a flaw in my logic.

Point out the flaw.
 

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 02:09:26 am
Look, I have a question for you.

For the sake of the argument, suppose a person DID go public and say, "they edited / faked / changed my video". OK?

Would that prove that there were no planes hitting the towers?

Think carefully.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 02:10:56 am
No that is not pointing out a flaw in my logic. Point out the flaw.

I said "no connection between premises and conclusion" is the biggest flaw there is. It's the only flaw there is. Study logic, please. You're embarrassing yourself.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 02:13:19 am
I said "no connection between premises and conclusion" is the biggest flaw there is. It's the only flaw there is. Study logic, please. You're embarrassing yourself.

That makes no sense. What do you mean there is no connection. That's not pointing out a flaw, that's you refusing to look at cold logic in the face.

Please state what you think my premise is.

Then state what my conclusion is.

And we'll test the connection.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 02:15:23 am
No lady, you formalize your argument, I'm not going to make your point for you.

Edit: alright, here we go.

Your premises

P1 "no one has come forward" which you don't know.
P2 "all the videos show the same thing" which is slippery at best.

conclusion
C is "None of the videos were touched, retouched, faked by any of the news stations".

Show me how you get from P to C. Where is the connection?
Forget it, you will never grasp basic logic.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 02:21:17 am
For the sake of the argument, suppose a person DID go public and say, "they edited / faked / changed my video". OK?

Would that prove that there were no planes hitting the towers?

Please answer that question. Our little discussion will be over if you do.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 02:33:13 am
P1 "no one has come forward" which you don't know.

It is a FACT that no member of the public has come forward and said "they faked my video/picture".
A goddamn fact.

Did you ever hear of the internet, do you really think they could shut everyone up?

Quote
P2 "all the videos show the same thing" which is slippery at best.
They are all consistant and show the same event.
FACT!

Quote
conclusion
C is "None of the videos were touched, retouched, faked by any of the news stations".

F*ck your bogus news stations argument... NO MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC HAS SAID "THEY FAKED MY VIDEO/PICTURE".

The public... the public who witnessed it and recorded it... the f*cking public you keep ignoring.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 02:43:52 am
Please edit your post so I can quote you.

Please answer my question, so we can finish our little discussion. Might take me a while to respond, because some people have to work for a living.

"This is FACT! F*ck your argument" is the best you can do? We can stop the discussion right now. You're making the truth movement look bad.

Is everybody here like this? Do you support her?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 02:54:05 am
It is a FACT that no member of the public has come forward and said "they faked my video/picture".
A goddamn fact.

How do you know nobody tried?

Quote
Did you ever hear of the internet, do you really think they could shut everyone up?
They are all consistant and show the same event.
FACT!

No, what is the internet? Explain!
 
Quote
F*ck your bogus news stations argument... NO MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC HAS SAID "THEY FAKED MY VIDEO/PICTURE".

Yeah, F*ck my argument. Potty mouth you.

Quote
The public... the public who witnessed it and recorded it... the f*cking public you keep ignoring.

Yeah, you are a naughty girl.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 02:55:51 am
For the sake of the argument, suppose a person DID go public and say, "they edited / faked / changed my video". OK?

Would that prove that there were no planes hitting the towers?

Please answer this single question and this will all be over. All I'm trying is make a point here. I'm NOT looking for a new GF.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 02:57:39 am
Quote
For the sake of the argument, suppose a person DID go public and say, "they edited / faked / changed my video". OK?

Nobody has.

You're a busted spreader of disinfo.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 03:02:50 am
I knew you would say that.  ;D

Ever heard of a hypothetical? I guess not. I'll let the others deal with you while I'm at work. You can be proud of yourself now.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 03:16:13 am
I knew you would say that.  ;D

Ever heard of a hypothetical? I guess not. I'll let the others deal with you while I'm at work. You can be proud of yourself now.

This is the most solid argument against your totally stupid cointelpro no-planes/different-planes crap.

Not a single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture".

Not one.

Out of the unknown thousands who were watching the second impact (supposedly planned ny fakers 20 minutes after the first) with an unknown number of recording devices.

There are at least 50 videos alone of the second impact, they all show the same event, they are all consistant.

You're busted.

Go away with your nonsense.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on June 30, 2009, 08:56:40 am
This is the most solid argument against your totally stupid cointelpro no-planes/different-planes crap.

So I am an agent now? Hahaha! Are you 8 years old?

Look, as long as you keep calling me "no-planes", despite me telling you a 100 times that I believe there were planes and no-planers are idiots, YOU are the one spreading the disinfo here and are not to be taken seriously.

You are what is called in net culture a "forum troll". The truth movement has fought endless meaningless battles against people like you. You are not interested in the truth. All you are interested in is attacking people who disagree with you personally, and "winning" the argument by not answering questions, endlessly repeating yourself and being difficult for as long as it takes until your opponent realizes it's a waste of time dealing with you.

I'm done with you. You can shout all you want now.

In this topic there were at least some decent replies. Thank you guys for that. If it weren't for you this place would be a Kindergarten.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 09:39:42 am
I'm still waiting for the flaw in my logic.

Quote
Not a single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture".

Not one.

Out of the unknown thousands who were watching the second impact (supposedly planned ny fakers 20 minutes after the first) with an unknown number of recording devices.

There are at least 50 videos alone of the second impact, they all show the same event, they are all consistant.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on June 30, 2009, 10:26:57 am
Here we go again another thread derailed. 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: luckee1 on June 30, 2009, 10:33:57 am
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4136/threadkiller.jpg)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 10:51:16 am
Here we go again another thread derailed. 

No.. a busting of the stupid jerks who push no-planes.

Not a single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture".

Not one.

Out of the unknown thousands who were watching the second impact (supposedly planned by fakers 20 minutes after the first) with an unknown number of recording devices, no one has raised any suspicion.

There are at least 50 videos alone of the second impact, they all show the same event, they are all consistant.

No-planes is so so very very dumb it just has to be disinfo.

Why am I not surprised to see the same people pushing this as pushing the equally dumb Apollo hoax?

It's all designed to bury real issues about 9/11 in the cesspool of "conspiracy theories".

Go away with your stupid nonsense.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 30, 2009, 01:30:10 pm
What have you proved?  


Amazing.  Have you not been checking my posts?  I've come to the conclusion you are not going to change your mind no matter what evidence is brought forward to you.  People think they are awake but they are really still sleepwalking.  It is too uncomforatble to admit live video was tampered with that day because this forum is very against it, and so it most of the 911 movement.  Well I myself don't judge video evidence by how many people also believe it.

You remind me of my friend who didn't believe 911 was an inside job until his idol Charlie Sheen came forward and said so.

Phone Interviews with many of the original camera men of the WTC attacks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0nl_ZY3D04&feature=PlayList&p=7EA2472A0606A350&index=64

Please watch especially at 3m 14s  NO PLANE IN THE VIDEO and then they ADD IT IN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZryf1sZBQc&feature=PlayList&p=7EA2472A0606A350&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=62

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AfTyOyKEEQ

"No second plane, it was a bomb! Bomb in the building, no second plane.  I saw everything."

Another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3cpHxbIIV4

"Were getting REPORTS that a plane hit the building"
"OH? I didn't even know that."

Another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXIxbhgUDw

BG: Alright, so tell us what you saw if you would?

S: I literally, I was waiting a table and I literally saw a -- it seemed to be like the small plane. I just heard a couple of noises. It looked like it bounced off the building and then I heard, uh, I saw a huge like ball of fire on top and then the smoke seemed to simmer down and it just stunned -- you know a lot of smoke was coming out and that's pretty much the extent of what I saw.

BG: A private aircraft?

S: I'm not sure, if it was a -- it just seemed like a smaller plane. I don't think it was anything commercial.

Another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS5lFVxr4A8

"Some people said they THOUGHT THEY SAW A MISSILE"  Magically cut out from news footage.

Another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49deDpOyfHA

"That was NOT and American Airline!"

And to top it off a collection of witness accounts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5o_-KItOZU


Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 30, 2009, 02:57:20 pm
Infokrieger: first argument, why would they need to alter the footage of the impacts, which is proven with many different points. if they had four planes hitting the locations. they would only theoretically need to alter the footage regarding the secondary explosions aspect and the final free fall speed destruction.

i appreciate that you accept that the tv media was edited on the day. this really is not such a difficult aspect to take on board. when you consider that all of tv is edited, even live tv. take big brother for example they run a 15 min lead time on it so they can bleep out swear words and edit what they want. the 24 hour media channels is a production, a 24 hour production. there is even legislation in place that says when there is a terrorist attack the government will "take over". as if they don't use that power indefinitely... this is in the uk. they can issue something called a section d (i forgot was it was called..?) and restrict the media or edit it.

but what i am getting at is that, on the day it was maliciously edited. not only was it maliciously edited. but it was edited in such a way to hide the fact that missiles impacted the towers and not planes. if you study (video and audio) the first 30 mins of each station. you will find this to be true.

i am open to the possibility that the missiles aspect was a counter intelligence program, but like i said that would be one hell of a preemptive counter intelligence program. as well as that, the footage itself does not support the missiles aspect as a co intel pro. but it is possible...

voskhod: just because you can not comprehend how it could be done does not mean it is not possible.

for example if someone says to you that they can split an atom. if you can not comprehend how that is done, well it is not sufficient logic or proof to ultimately say that it is not possible, or it did not happen, in the case of the atom, the man can not split an atom.

i have supplied you will my theory, which is a theory based on the information that i have received. i looked at all the information and the event and i thought, how did they do this, how can i tie all this together. i forget about the msm nonsense. the isi connections, the bin laden connections. i asked myself who could do this type of op and what would they have needed to do...


Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 03:16:35 pm
No-planers and different planers (possibly crazier than no-planers) have to explain why supposed fakers would fake a second impact 20 minutes after the first one with thousands of unknown people from all parts of the world watching, and these people carrying an unknown number of image recording devices, why these fakers would think they would be able to control all these witnesses and their images in the internet age!

Can you do that?

Can you explain to me how they acheived that miracle - because you obviously think they must have done that.

Until you do, your theories, your bullsh*t Sepetember Clues clone disinfo vidoes are totally meaningless.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on June 30, 2009, 03:18:21 pm
well i have attempted to answer you.

if i had to answer your question, i would be repeating myself.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on June 30, 2009, 03:18:32 pm
Oh.. and I'll keep asking the same question until someone comes up with an explanation.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: KiwiClare on June 30, 2009, 04:28:29 pm
This thread and this forum is not for people to push the baseless notion that no planes hit the WTC in New York on 9/11.    

No-Planer Cointelpro Operation Becoming Transparent
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/fraud/911_attack/news

“No Planers” have become a pseudo-movement, adding lunacy, deception, and division to the legitimate questions emanating from 9/11 families, first responders, government officials, intelligence experts, scientists, engineers, architects, academics, entertainment personalities, and so many others.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dewk on June 30, 2009, 05:42:22 pm
   you gotta have an open mind. You can watch a "no planer" video and learn something.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on June 30, 2009, 06:10:12 pm
KiwiClare, the link you posted doesn't work.

Voskhod, can you answer ME why EVERY SINGLE VIDEO, YES EVERY ONE, of the second attack on the WTC has been tampered with in one way or another?  EVERY SINGLE ONE.  I have 10+ videos of amature footage and the part where the plane is supposed to hit is just magically cut out!

I am NOT saying there were no planes, all I am saying is that the live video footage has been HEAVILY EDITED!!! It is so bloody obvious. 
Yes it's easy to ask 1000 more questions about this situation, but please just look at the footage, it is blatlantly obvious the videos have been heavily edited!

Where did this co-intel term come from anyway?  Think about it.  Faux news would be pushing this no plane stuff hard if it actually held no ground, but the fact is, it does hold weight.  And lots of weight.  Most people denying are just too scared to come to the light, and sit in the comfort of their darkness.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: KiwiClare on June 30, 2009, 07:14:56 pm
  you gotta have an open mind. You can watch a "no planer" video and learn something.


I do have an open mind, otherwise I would not be on this Forum.   I have watched a "no planer" video - September Clues.  It was the biggest load of tripe I have seen in a long time, designed to tap into the biggest resource on the planet - gullibility.  
 The "No planer" (NY 9/11) posts seem to be a common strategy, used to waste time in my opinion.  Here is another person, who used the name "winston", using the same strategy on the Uncensored website- sometimes he sounded reasonable, but then started wallowing in blatant disinformation tactics.

winston wrote:
Quote
#

Squeaky, I did not say that I didn’t know that planes hit the towers, I said I don’t watch 9/11 docos that think planes hit the towers.
Because once you realise the footage of planes disappearing inside the towers is fake/ manipulated, it’s difficult to give personal credibility to any doco that does promote planes at the towers.

Are you John Danahy ?

Posted by winston | April 26, 2009, 10:54 am  
Refer:
http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/04/12/danish-scientist-talks-for-10-minutes-on-tv-about-nano-thermite-found-in-the-dust-at-the-wtc/


No-Planer Cointelpro Operation Becoming Transparent
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/fraud/911_attack/news.php?q=1218648029
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 01, 2009, 01:19:21 am
I have watched a "no planer" video - September Clues.  It was the biggest load of tripe I have seen in a long time, designed to tap into the biggest resource on the planet - gullibility.  

I think September Clues is highly interesting for the TV fakery part and then makes this huuuuge logical leap to conclude there were no planes. Until it makes this bogus claim, it's actually a decent, thought-provoking movie. Didn't you think? Did you dismiss all the TV fakery out of hand?

I think we have been tricked into dismissing TV fakery, by means of combining it with no-planer BS.

We have been tricked like that before many, many times. They have successfully linked 9/11 truth to all kinds of stuff in the minds of the people. They have created 9/11 truther figures who, after establishing a name for themselves, go into holocaust denial, shapeshifting lizards, no planes, they did it all. Just so the human mind dismisses one thing because it dismisses some other things LINKED to it. "Guilt by association".

Most of you are still brainwashed that they still push the stupid "TV fakery = no planes" notion, for which there is no basis. TV fakery doesn't mean "no planes". It's a huuuuge logical leap. It just doesn't follow. "Why would they NEED such and such" is NOT a deductive logical argument, it's asking for motive, which we know nothing about.

Some of you are so brainwashed that they refuse to answer even a hypothetical question like "what IF..."! Answer: "it ain't so".

It's ridiculous how even the most dedicated of you still have that link in their head: "TV fakery = no planes". You are the fruitcakes here, my friends. You are the ones pushing cointelpro Propaganda right in that instance, and don't even know it. And if you have no argumentative way to go, you go into fecal or abusive language, calling people names. That is the exact same behavior of a debunker.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: KiwiClare on July 01, 2009, 01:37:50 am
Quote
I think September Clues is highly interesting for the TV fakery part and then makes this huuuuge logical leap to conclude there were no planes. Until it makes this bogus claim, it's actually a decent, thought-provoking movie. Didn't you think? Did you dismiss all the TV fakery out of hand?

I think there are far more important things to worry about.  We know that 9/11 was an inside job used to aid the rapid rise of fascism, so what is the point of focusing on something on a par with playing in a sandpit?

 Invest your energy in something worthy - like writing to your local newspaper and stating that you think there should be a new investigation.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 01, 2009, 02:07:54 am
Thanks Kiwi, but I'm really not asking for your advice. I also don't need anyone to tell me what to think or how to spend my time. Were you not a moderator, I'd call you a fascist, but I'm not going to give you a reason to ban me. So I'll just say: PEACE.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on July 01, 2009, 02:15:11 am
I think there are far more important things to worry about.  We know that 9/11 was an inside job used to aid the rapid rise of fascism, so what is the point of focusing on something on a par with playing in a sandpit?

 Invest your energy in something worthy - like writing to your local newspaper and stating that you think there should be a new investigation.

I think investing energy into this is highly important because if you can proove that there was TV Fakery then all the news media are complicit in the crime therefore they can never expose 911 as being an Inside Job so they automatically will never go there.  It fits so perfectly.

If co-intel is involved in TV Fakery on 9/11 then they are working to keep it from being exposed and are NOT infact EXPOSING IT.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 01, 2009, 02:21:25 am
Thank you, Flag, for following that line of thought and NOT spew NP BS. I appreciate that.

You're right, TV fakery is the one smoking gun. The elephant in the room. And we know they have shown faked pictures and videos before and are in fact still doing that (a fake Bin Laden once in a while).

But I disagree. There are only one or two stations that aired original footage. All the others were airing syndicated footage, so they not complicit. Just negligent.

Moderator, are you suggesting we open a new thread to discuss TV fakery but NO no-plane-BS? Or shall we continue here?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 01, 2009, 11:29:50 am
Voskhod, can you answer ME why EVERY SINGLE VIDEO, YES EVERY ONE, of the second attack on the WTC has been tampered with in one way or another?  EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Tell me why not one single member of the public was mentioned that they tampered with their video and "here's the original" to prove it?

Busted.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on July 01, 2009, 02:10:59 pm
Thank you, Flag, for following that line of thought and NOT spew NP BS. I appreciate that.

You're right, TV fakery is the one smoking gun. The elephant in the room. And we know they have shown faked pictures and videos before and are in fact still doing that (a fake Bin Laden once in a while).

But I disagree. There are only one or two stations that aired original footage. All the others were airing syndicated footage, so they not complicit. Just negligent.

Moderator, are you suggesting we open a new thread to discuss TV fakery but NO no-plane-BS? Or shall we continue here?

Comparing the live footage from 911 to the fake Bin Laden tapes doesn't really strengthen your position because that's two completely different procedures. Also in your opinion how do the perps of 911 benefit from faking the TV footage?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 01, 2009, 03:18:07 pm
Comparing the live footage from 911 to the fake Bin Laden tapes doesn't really strengthen your position because that's two completely different procedures.

Technically speaking, yes. Point taken. But it goes to credibility of the media, your honor. The Bin Laden tapes establish that there is none, let alone journalistic integrity.

Quote
Also in your opinion how do the perps of 911 benefit from faking the TV footage?

I could only speculate. My opinion doesn't matter, and I doubt it matters to you.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on July 01, 2009, 03:29:59 pm
I could only speculate. My opinion doesn't matter, and I doubt it matters to you.

There's really nothing here at all is there?

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 01, 2009, 03:38:56 pm
Quote
Tell me why not one single member of the public was mentioned that they tampered with their video and "here's the original" to prove it?

Why can't no-planers and different planers and missile people not answer this fundemental question?

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: 9/11FalseFlag on July 01, 2009, 03:44:27 pm
Why can't no-planers and different planers and missile people not answer this fundemental question?



You are obviously NOT checking the videos I'm posting!  Every single call to the original filmmakers is VERY SUSPICIOUS.  NONE OF THEM WANT TO TALK!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0nl_ZY3D04&feature=PlayList&p=7EA2472A0606A350&index=64
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on July 01, 2009, 03:49:52 pm
I think investing energy into this is highly important because if you can proove that there was TV Fakery then all the news media are complicit in the crime therefore they can never expose 911 as being an Inside Job so they automatically will never go there.  It fits so perfectly.

If co-intel is involved in TV Fakery on 9/11 then they are working to keep it from being exposed and are NOT infact EXPOSING IT.

+1! QFT!

Some people get it when it comes to TV Fakery - some don't.  It's just like infokrieger was saying earlier, just because CNN and MSNBC and Fox News were running obvious doctored clips of the attacks on 9/11 doesn't mean that nothing hit the WTC towers.

As to why no one has come forward with the real footage, I can only speculate that:

A- the footage was never real to begin with and was simply "supplied" to Main Stream Media news stations by the CIA and other black ops orginizations

or

B- The people who supplied the footage were in on it. [I especially think this is the case with the Naudet brothers, who have the only known public footage of the first plane strike.]

Either way, like I said, when it comes to TV Fakery, some ppl can see why CNN slapped a huge banner right where the supposed "plane" flies into the building so you can't see sh*t and some ppl think that was just "shotty camera work."

To each his own, in the end I feel confident the truth will emerge.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 01, 2009, 03:51:49 pm
You are obviously NOT checking the videos I'm posting!  Every single call to the original filmmakers is VERY SUSPICIOUS.  NONE OF THEM WANT TO TALK!!!

It's irrelevant what your opinion of those videos are. September Clues is a perfect example of bulls*t about the images.

The truth is that NOT ONE single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture, here's the original".

YOU need to explain how the supposed fakers pulled off that miracle.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: KiwiClare on July 01, 2009, 07:50:47 pm
I think investing energy into this is highly important because if you can proove that there was TV Fakery then all the news media are complicit in the crime therefore they can never expose 911 as being an Inside Job so they automatically will never go there.  It fits so perfectly.

If co-intel is involved in TV Fakery on 9/11 then they are working to keep it from being exposed and are NOT infact EXPOSING IT.

In my opinion it is of no importance whatsoever, because we already know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were planes in New York that hit the twin towers on 9/11.  Thus, there is nothing to prove.  September Clues was clearly fakery, just like Mickey Mouse cartoons are.  Would you like to quarrel endlessly about whether or not Mickey Mouse is real or not, based upon the Disney images that aired on your TV?  Of course not.

The premise of September Clues is based on a notion which is best described as delusional and psychotic.  Plus, it is being used to undermine the truth movement. Thus, I can not see anything being gained from going over the obvious ad nauseum.  It is a sorry waste of time when there are far more important matters to attend to, both on this Forum and with getting the word out regarding 9/11 truth to others.  
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on July 01, 2009, 08:12:06 pm
please tell me what you think of this 25 min video that i came across

http://udn1.com/911/abc.911.audio.mp4 (http://udn1.com/911/abc.911.audio.mp4)

or you can grab the torrent: https://tracker.conspiracycentral.net/torrents-details.php?id=7989 (https://tracker.conspiracycentral.net/torrents-details.php?id=7989)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on July 01, 2009, 10:20:19 pm
I think investing energy into this is highly important because if you can proove that there was TV Fakery then all the news media are complicit in the crime therefore they can never expose 911 as being an Inside Job so they automatically will never go there.  It fits so perfectly.

If co-intel is involved in TV Fakery on 9/11 then they are working to keep it from being exposed and are NOT infact EXPOSING IT.

No Planers = CoIntelPro

CoIntelPro = No Planers

Repeat 1,000x until you get it through your head.

WTF?

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: White Rose Sophie on July 01, 2009, 10:41:24 pm
No Planers = CoIntelPro

CoIntelPro = No Planers

Repeat 1,000x until you get it through your head.

WTF?


The problem is - I have seen truth groups destroyed over this issue, and it serves no purpose EXCEPT to do just that, I have discovered recently.  Well-meaning people looking for the truth who start out being focused on their common enemy......eventually turning against each other.

The towers were brought down by explosives, there is considerable evidence for that conclusion.  What difference does it make what their cover story was?

As far as the media being complicit in 9-11, we all KNOW that already.  The likelihood of being able to prove 'no-planes' in any court of law relies upon being able to have all the original footage in hand. It's more likely that Rockefeller will sail in on his yacht personally and bust Cynthia McKinney out of Israeli incarceration than THAT ever happening. 

It is a diversionary tactic that appears to be working.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 02:41:01 am
The question still remains unanswered:

The truth is that NOT ONE single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture, here's the original".

Who did the the supposed fakers pull off that miracle?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: sekular on July 02, 2009, 03:30:38 am
Quote
No Planers = CoIntelPro

CoIntelPro = No Planers

Repeat 1,000x until you get it through your head.

WTF?

global moderator does not even watch the video, but tells us what to believe instead.

so much for the truth.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on July 02, 2009, 03:38:56 am
global moderator does not even watch the video, but tells us what to believe instead.

so much for the truth.

Do you really think you are the first no planer we have ever engaged? Do you really think that we haven't studied this many times over? Do you not understand that this have been dis proven time and time again? If you're going to turn up 2 years after the party has finished don't be upset that everyone else has gone home.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 03:50:27 am
sekular,

do you have an answer to my most fundemental of all questions?

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on July 02, 2009, 03:54:46 am
Sekular you posted the other night that we are all full of shit, how do you expect up to take you seriously?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: KiwiClare on July 02, 2009, 04:11:33 am
global moderator does not even watch the video, but tells us what to believe instead.

so much for the truth.

Where is the evidence that you genuinely care about the truth yourself?  
I have told you repeatedly NOT to post in this thread again, as you have posted classic disinfo material.
Anyone who tries and claims that no planes hit the WTC in New York on 9/11 is NOT welcome on this forum as far as I am concerned.

 Remember sekular that approximately 3,000 died that day and many more have suffered greatly as a consequence, including the family members of the victims and the first responders, as well as many in the truth movement.
 Implying that there were no planes that hit the WTC on 9/11 only serves the purposes of those behind the attacks.  
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 06:58:25 am
Sekular,

The question still remains unanswered:

The truth is that NOT ONE single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture, here's the original".

How did the the supposed fakers pull off that miracle?

Until you answer this then any subsequent theories are bogus.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 02, 2009, 07:08:03 am
The truth is that NOT ONE single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture, here's the original".

Baloney. Would it change anything if ONE single member of the public came forward and said "they tampered with my video"? Would you change your mind then? No, you wouldn't. Would you?

Ah, I forget, you are not capable of answering hypotheticals.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 07:17:05 am
Baloney. Would it change anything if ONE single member of the public came forward and said "they tampered with my video"? Would you change your mind then? No, you wouldn't. Would you?
I would listen to what they had to say.

But so far NO ONE has!

Not a single person.

Until you can explain how that miracle happened then any other opinions about supposedly tampered with video's are irrelevant.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 02, 2009, 07:48:30 am
Well, if I had filmed the crash of an airplane into the WTC, and a broadcasting company payed me some money for the rights of that video, there will be an agreement signed by both parties. Part of that agreement seems to be that I'm not allowed to talk about the video to anyone and a non-disclosure of the contract.

Researchers have supposedly called some of the amateur filmmakers and not one of them was willing to talk to them. Look at it from that angle:

NOT ONE of the amateurs filmers have come forward and said, their video is legit and has NOT been edited by the studios. It's a bogus argument from both ways.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on July 02, 2009, 07:56:21 am
global moderator does not even watch the video, but tells us what to believe instead.

so much for the truth.

and then global moderator bans no-planer cointelpro agent out of respect for the victims still pushing for answers.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on July 02, 2009, 08:00:50 am
Sekular,

The question still remains unanswered:

The truth is that NOT ONE single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered with my video/picture, here's the original".

How did the the supposed fakers pull off that miracle?

Until you answer this then any subsequent theories are bogus.

cointelpro no-planer provocateurs do not answer questions, they only push nonsense crapola hoping that you will repeat it to discredit yourself.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on July 02, 2009, 08:02:00 am
Well, if I had filmed the crash of an airplane into the WTC, and a broadcasting company payed me some money for the rights of that video, there will be an agreement signed by both parties. Part of that agreement seems to be that I'm not allowed to talk about the video to anyone and a non-disclosure of the contract.

Researchers have supposedly called some of the amateur filmmakers and not one of them was willing to talk to them. Look at it from that angle:

NOT ONE of the amateurs filmers have come forward and said, their video is legit and has NOT been edited by the studios. It's a bogus argument from both ways.

so what is your point? are you also pushing no plane crapola on this forum?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Dig on July 02, 2009, 08:02:40 am
KiwiClare, the link you posted doesn't work.

Voskhod, can you answer ME why EVERY SINGLE VIDEO, YES EVERY ONE, of the second attack on the WTC has been tampered with in one way or another?  EVERY SINGLE ONE.  I have 10+ videos of amature footage and the part where the plane is supposed to hit is just magically cut out!

I am NOT saying there were no planes, all I am saying is that the live video footage has been HEAVILY EDITED!!! It is so bloody obvious. 
Yes it's easy to ask 1000 more questions about this situation, but please just look at the footage, it is blatlantly obvious the videos have been heavily edited!

Where did this co-intel term come from anyway?  Think about it.  Faux news would be pushing this no plane stuff hard if it actually held no ground, but the fact is, it does hold weight.  And lots of weight.  Most people denying are just too scared to come to the light, and sit in the comfort of their darkness.

Are you also pushing no plane bullshit?

this thread is like troll fly paper
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 08:28:54 am
Well, if I had filmed the crash of an airplane into the WTC, and a broadcasting company payed me some money for the rights of that video, there will be an agreement signed by both parties. Part of that agreement seems to be that I'm not allowed to talk about the video to anyone and a non-disclosure of the contract.
Are you insane?

You're saying the public are in on it.. and the fakers knew before hand that they could get the public in on it?

3,000 people died... and not one single member of the public put their conscience before the supposed fairytale contracts.

Just how did the media know who had videos?

Quote
Researchers have supposedly called some of the amateur filmmakers and not one of them was willing to talk to them. Look at it from that angle:
can you give some examples please?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: kushfiend on July 02, 2009, 08:44:34 am
Are you also pushing no plane bullshit?

this thread is like troll fly paper

Sane no one is saying No planes hit the WTC buildings, what everyone has been arguing here for ever 10 pages is that the Media doctored the footage of the crashes - why?

I don't really know.

But it's very obvious that Main Stream Media stations HAVE altered the footage. 

Go ahead and ban me now because I /disagree with you
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 08:50:48 am
Sane no one is saying No planes hit the WTC buildings,
No... people are saying even crazier things than that.. they were missiles and all the witnesses and their recorded images have been controlled.

Quote
what everyone has been arguing here for ever 10 pages is that the Media doctored the footage of the crashes - why?

Because the media didn't doctor the f*cking images.

Quote
But it's very obvious that Main Stream Media stations HAVE altered the footage. 

Man you're something.. what about the public?

You have to answer the fundemental question about why NOT ONE single member of the public has come forward and said "they tampered ith my video/picture".

Unless you get past that little hurdle then your opinions on "doctored videos" are worth nothing.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 02, 2009, 02:16:38 pm
so what is your point? are you also pushing no plane crapola on this forum?

You have obviously not read my posts, I have stated 100x in no uncertain terms why I believe PLANES DID ACTUALLY HIT THE BUILDING. I doesn't get any clearer than that.

Edit: what kind of moderation is it exactly you're doing? You haven't read 2 pages of posts, you are accusing everyone of pushing no-plane bullshit and accuse everyone who disagrees with you or writes something you don't understand of being a troll. That, Sir, is TROLL behavior at its best. You are not moderating, you're escalating. Just like the police.

The other moderator, Kiwi, has even deleted posts of me arguing AGAINST no-plane Bullshit, while not touching the statements I was arguing against, effectively working in favor of no-planes-BS. I called him out on that and then he threatened to ban me if I didn't stop "playing games".

Btw, is it against the rules to respond to a moderator in public, when he calls me out in public? Will I get banned for that? Come on, show your true faces.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on July 02, 2009, 02:25:29 pm
You have obviously not read my posts, I have stated 100x in no uncertain terms why I believe PLANES DID ACTUALLY HIT THE BUILDING. I doesn't get any clearer than that.

Believing "proof" of tv fakery is just as bad. All the stuff it BS and just pure deception debunked 1000ths of times all over the web. But the fakery people just dont care. They have no logic... they think 2 different camera angles are the same.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 02, 2009, 02:33:52 pm
Believing "proof" of tv fakery is just as bad.

And who are you to tell me what to believe? Are you the moral compass around here?

I never said I "believed any proof". I never told people to "believe proof". I'm saying,

If there was indeed TV fakery, that would NOT mean there were no planes.

They are two separate issues. Only problem, since September Clues everyone (even the supposedly smart people here) believes they are the same. Good job, September Clues. This film has everybody brainwashed, even the best of us. There are, I think, three or four people who are able to grasp what a conditional is. It has something to do with logic.

Btw. PP-Moderators note: I believe planes did actually hit the WTC on 9/11. It's sad that I have to say this on every second post, because almost everyone here seems to be reading impaired fluoride drinking morons.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 02:53:34 pm
Btw. PP-Moderators note: I believe planes did actually hit the WTC on 9/11.

We know.

You just think ALL the images we faked to look like different planes. Just how crazy is that? It's possibly carzier than no-planes.

You still need to get past the fundemental problem of the public watching and their images.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 02, 2009, 03:08:19 pm
We know.

Then why do you keep accusing me of pushing no-planes? Full knowing that's not what I'm saying, in fact, I'm saying the exact opposite. What kind of tactic is that? Are you deliberately trying to make me mad?

Quote
You just think ALL the images we faked to look like different planes.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Quote me if you have to, but stop distorting what I said. I didn't say ALL images were faked. I didn't say I believe there were other planes. None of that. Stop lying.

Quote
You still need to get past the fundemental problem of the public watching and their images.

I've been trying to explain to you why I don't.

Btw. PP-Moderators note: I believe planes did actually hit the WTC on 9/11 and have never stated anything to the contrary, not in this thread nor in others.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: semicollegiate on July 02, 2009, 03:21:07 pm
They can't fake videos of the pentagon because the engines would be grinding into the lawn and the nose would be rotating down into the ground and the tail would have broke off and flown over the top of the building.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 04:30:43 pm
here's what I think:

1. There is plenty of evidence for planes hitting the WTC.

2. There is plenty of evidence for TV fakery.

Conclusion: 1 and 2 are most probably true. There were planes AND the images were doctored. IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Why would they doctor the TV images?

And "2" is bogus because they is no evidence for TV fakery. None.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: semicollegiate on July 02, 2009, 04:38:53 pm
Would it be easier to fool people on the second plane?  Every one had the idea in their head-- plane hit wtc-- probably with a mental picture starting to form.  Peolple want to know-- what does that look like-- and so they are given the answer.

People don't look up.  And when they do they are dissoriented.

The planes are irrelavant to the complete destruction of all the items in the buildings.  You can have the high stuff fall, nothing  pushes against it as hard as it pushes down.  Or you can have stuff pulverized,  something below pushes back as hard as the falling thing.  If the floors below push up hard enough to pulverize the falling floor, then they would not collapse.

Each tower weighed 500,000 tons.  They were completely powdered.  Explosives could be in the mix, thermite looks useful, but something turned the towers into dust--not just rubble chunks.

(http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/BBE/BBEpics/after.gif)
Figure 17. This photo was taken was take around noon on 9/11/01, showing the height of WTC6 compared to the "rubble pile" of WTC1 which is appears in the foreground. Where did the building go?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 02, 2009, 04:41:42 pm
Would it be easier to fool people on the second plane? 
Don't be ridiculous.

Many of the public recorded it with video and camera.

Not one has come forward to say "they messed with my images".

Not a single one.

Now go away with your no-plane crap.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: semicollegiate on July 02, 2009, 05:21:37 pm
The planes are irrelavant.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Infokrieger on July 02, 2009, 05:56:45 pm
Now go away with your no-plane crap.

For once I agree with you.

Anyway, I said there is EVIDENCE, not PROOF for TV fakery. Evidence is something you look at, something you can examine and come to conclusions about.. Proof is different. When I prove something to you, the debate is over. I can't prove TV fakery. Never said I could. And even if I could, that would not mean there were no planes.

Because there were planes. They hit the towers on 9/11. That is pretty damn obvious to me.

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: semicollegiate on July 02, 2009, 06:16:18 pm
Planes crashing into the WTC on 911 are most likely.  Probably just like they say.  Maybe remote controlled airliners full of who knows what.  Could have crashed the real passenger flights into the Atlantic Ocean.  But the planes don't really matter. 

There is 500,000 tons concrete and steel to account for and I don't see it.

(http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/BBE/BBEpics/before.gif)
Figure 16. The height of the towers is compared to the height of WTC6 and the "rubble pile" shown in Figure 17.


(http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/BBE/BBEpics/after.gif)
Figure 17. This photo was taken was take around noon on 9/11/01, showing the height of WTC6 compared to the "rubble pile" of WTC1 which is appears in the foreground. Where did the building go?







Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Voskhod3 on July 03, 2009, 01:43:57 am
Anyway, I said there is EVIDENCE, not PROOF for TV fakery.
For example?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on July 03, 2009, 02:58:39 am
Planes crashing into the WTC on 911 are most likely.  Probably just like they say.  Maybe remote controlled airliners full of who knows what.  Could have crashed the real passenger flights into the Atlantic Ocean.  But the planes don't really matter. 

There is 500,000 tons concrete and steel to account for and I don't see it.

(http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/BBE/BBEpics/before.gif)
Figure 16. The height of the towers is compared to the height of WTC6 and the "rubble pile" shown in Figure 17.


(http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/BBE/BBEpics/after.gif)
Figure 17. This photo was taken was take around noon on 9/11/01, showing the height of WTC6 compared to the "rubble pile" of WTC1 which is appears in the foreground. Where did the building go?


Yeah I made a similar post a while ago. I totally agree with you on this.

What? There was a carpet of dust for miles around. Also 110 floors collapsed down on top of one another and left a HOLE where there should have been a rather larger pile of rubble.

Look - this collapses -

(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4099/1wtc1frombottomuc8.jpg)

And leaves this -

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1313/01ffffff3gn5.jpg)

See no rubble just a small corner section of the steel outer cage, paper and dust.



Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: White Rose Sophie on July 03, 2009, 09:44:36 am
Yeah I made a similar post a while ago. I totally agree with you on this.


Hmmm.  I had never really thought about this actually.  And once you DO think about it, it is indeed most perplexing.  WHERE did it go?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: grapecrusher1 on July 03, 2009, 10:13:00 am
Those buildings were obliterated with explosives.  We know this-- right?.   Those massive pyroclastic clouds we all saw moved a good portion of what should have been found at the base of the towers in the scenario of a pancaked collapse.  Parts of the downtown core were a couple feet deep in pulverized materials those clouds travelled over the water.  Think of the 300 pieces of bone found on the deutsche bank building and 1.5 ton beams being tossed 600 feet.
I dont know why this is so difficult to believe?  but I am sure some of you here have plenty of ideas.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on July 03, 2009, 11:37:24 am
Those buildings were obliterated with explosives.  We know this-- right?.   Those massive pyroclastic clouds we all saw moved a good portion of what should have been found at the base of the towers in the scenario of a pancaked collapse.  Parts of the downtown core were a couple feet deep in pulverized materials those clouds travelled over the water.  Think of the 300 pieces of bone found on the deutsche bank building and 1.5 ton beams being tossed 600 feet.
I dont know why this is so difficult to believe?  but I am sure some of you here have plenty of ideas.

Yep those fragments of bones were tiny and also the paper survived because it is denser than concrete.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: DAVIDENGLAND on July 03, 2009, 11:40:36 am
Also there a video of ground zero taken a couple of hours after the towers fell and in it you can see down into the floors which were below ground level. Totally impossible if you go with the official story.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Raftel on July 06, 2009, 10:04:53 pm
Hey guys, what is the best video for debunking the "no-planes" theories?
Because the "no-planes" theory got some good points.

I just watched this guy saying "no plane hit the pentagon"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0iry3fiHU4

and also watched this interesting video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AfTyOyKEEQ

And why these guys are so scared to talk?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0nl_ZY3D04





 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Protean on July 06, 2009, 11:04:10 pm
I am starting to believe more and more that 911 - WTC/Pentagon was much like JFK/Dealey Plaza in Dallas. What really happened, regarding the so-called commercial airplanes hitting the towers story that was pushed on network TV, as opposed to what some eye witnesses reported seeing were two different things.

In Dallas, Dealey Plaza, the day JFK was killed, the people there heard shots coming from the grassy knoll and ran up the hillside trying to locate the shooter--they were later told--they did not hear a shot from the grassy knoll and that The Texas School Book Depository was where the shots came from and Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin--folks, haven't we been through this before?

The release of this info, originating from American Airlines, that AA Flights 11 (North Tower) and 77 (Pentagon) DID NOT FLY ON 911.

That means if you want to hold on to the 911 commercial jet plane theory (North Tower and Pentagon)--then you need to provide some new flight numbers.

(article)
http://www.disinfo.com/content/story.php?title=American-Airlines-Exposes-Bushs-Big-Lie-Flights-11-77-Did-Not-Fly-on-9/11-1

American Airlines Exposes Bush's Big Lie: Flights 11 and 77 Did Not Fly on 9/11

American Airlines itself is the source for information that AA Flights 11 (North Tower) and 77 (Pentagon) did not fly on 911. These flights are critical to the the government's crumbling cover up! Without those flights, Bush and his murderous co-conspirators will have to revise the big lie. They will have to concoct yet another cover story from the ground up! A cover up is on the brink of collapse when those guilty of capital crimes and high treason either turn on one another or are forced to revise the lie!

Already several demonstrable lies (many referenced in previous EC articles) are probable cause to begin a Federal Grand Jury investigation of George W. Bush's role in 911. Bush should be compelled by subpoena and Federal Marshals to testify under oath before an independent Federal Grand Jury. The AA revelations demand it!

WikiScanner discovered that American Airlines changed their Wikipedia entry to state that Flights 11 and 77 never flew on 9/11.

Original entry was:

Two American Airlines aircraft were hijacked and crashed during the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack: American Airlines Flight 77 (a Boeing 757) and American Airlines Flight 11 (a Boeing 767).

New entry is:

Two American Airlines aircraft were hijacked and crashed during the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack: Flight 77 (a Boeing 757) and Flight 11 (a Boeing 767). Although these flights were daily departures before and a month after September 11, 2001. Neither flight 11 nor 77 were scheduled on September 11, 2001. The records kept by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (www.bts.gov/gis/) do not list either flight that day.

A Google search of the IP address that made the change - 144.9.8.21 - is located at American Airlines.

Why the change American airlines? Did the flights actually operate or did we just imagine all of that?

--LiveLeak

911 did not happen as we have been told. That AA claims that the two aircraft that are absolutely essential to the Bush administration's official theory were not, in fact, scheduled for flight and were, in fact, not in the air that day, is a big hole from which Bush may not escape.

According to Wikiscaner Americans Airliners changed their Wikipedia entry which now states that 'Flights 11 and 77 never flew on 9/11'.

Two American Airlines aircraft were hijacked and crashed during the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack: Flight 77 (a Boeing 757) and Flight 11 (a Boeing 767). Although these flights were daily departures before and a month after September 11, 2001. Neither flight 11 nor 77 were scheduled on September 11, 2001. The records kept by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (www.bts.gov/gis/) do not list either flight that day.

The entry had stated:

Two American Airlines aircraft were hijacked and crashed during the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack: American Airlines Flight 77 (a Boeing 757) and American Airlines Flight 11 (a Boeing 767).

A Google search of the IP address - 144.9.8.21 - confirmed that the 'change' was made at American Airlines.

User talk: 144.9.8.21

This IP address is registered to American Airlines

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

My WHOIS lookup of the above IP address returned the following:

WHOIS - 144.9.8.21

Location: United States [City: Ft. Worth, Texas]


OrgName: American Airlines Incorporated
OrgID: AMERIC-112
Address: P.O.Box 619616
Address: MD 5308
City: DFW Airport
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 75261
Country: US

NetRange: 144.9.0.0 - 144.9.255.255
CIDR: 144.9.0.0/16
NetName: AANET
NetHandle: NET-144-9-0-0-1
Parent: NET-144-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Assignment
NameServer: DNS-P1.SABRE.COM
NameServer: DNS-P2.SABRE.COM
NameServer: DNS-P3.SABRE.COM
NameServer: DNS-P4.SABRE.COM
Comment:
RegDate: 1990-10-31
Updated: 2002-06-27

RTechHandle: OG60-ARIN
RTechName: Gelbrich, Orf
RTechPhone: +1-817-931-3145
RTechEmail: ************@aa.com

OrgTechHandle: ZW72-ARIN
OrgTechName: WARIS, ZISHAN
OrgTechPhone: +1-817-967-1242
OrgTechEmail: ************@aa.com

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2008-06-29 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

If neither flight was in the air as American Airlines itself has so stated, then numerous 'official versions' of the 'official conspiracy theory' are all a pack of malicious lies. That includes almost every statement made by Bush. These lies are especially pernicious because they have the effect of covering up the truth, protecting the guilty and obstructing justice. These lies are an insult to the families of everyone who died as a result of the event and the subsequent cover up. These lies aggravate the crimes of mass murder, terrorism and high treason for which the penalty must surely be death.

The official story is familiar by now.

At 8:20, Flight 11 stopped transmitting its transponder signal, and veered northward and departed dramatically from the westward heading of its planned route. The controllers concluded that the plane had probably been hijacked. 4 5 At 8:24, the following transmission was reportedly received from Flight 11: We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you'll be okay .. we are returning to the airport.

..Nobody move. Everything will be okay. If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet. Nobody move please we are going back to the airport .. don't try to make any stupid moves. 6

Neither of the pilots pressed the distress call button. At 8:28 controllers reportedly watched the plane make a 100-degree turn toward the south. 7 Presumably, Flight 11 continued south along the Hudson River until it reached the World Trade Center, though documentation of this is sparse given the lack of public information.

According to NORAD's September 18 timeline, the FAA did not notify NORAD of the signs that Flight 11 was hijacked until 8:40, 25 minutes after the first signs of trouble. 8

--Flight 11, The First Jet Commandeered on September 11th, 911 Research

But --if Flight 11 did not fly that day, that's all a deliberate, criminal lie! If neither Flight 11 or 77 was in the air that day, then nothing in the 'official statements' with regard to the Twin Towers of the WTC can is true.

This information is not compatible with previous EC articles in which it was revealed that NTSB data placed Flight 77 at an altitude of 273, some 200 feet ABOVE the Pentagon at the time of impact, give or take a couple of seconds or less! Moreover, it's trajectory was such that those 'eyewitnesses' who claimed to have seen it could not possibly have done so. Neither scenario is good news for Bush. Both support the statement that absolutely no wreckage traceable to a 757 was ever found at the Pentagon. Moreover, photos of an engine rotor appear to depict a Rolls-Royce engine that is used in the Global Hawk, a payload carrying missile that was, in fact, flown from the US to Australia completely by remote control. It is certainly a much better candidate for what Rumsfeld called '...the missile that struck this building' than a 757. Here's what you need to know about the Pentagon.

* No wreckage traceable to a 757 was ever recovered.
* Only ONE engine rotor (seen in photos) was recovered! This rotor is about one third the diameter of a 757 rotor.
* A 757 has two rotors, each of which are nearly three times the size of the SINGLE rotor located at the Pentagon
* Engine rotors are made of a Steel/Titanium alloy to withstand high temps inside jet engines.
* Flight 77 could not have crashed into the Pentagon

The time has come to consign Bush's official conspiracy theory to the dust bin of history. The theory is not even a good cover story, surviving for as long as it did because millions of good Americans wanted to believe it. Millions of otherwise good Americans did not wish to believe the very, very worst about an administration that had claimed to represent and defend our interests. Millions of Americans chose to believe that the government was still responsible to us, that the government was still the defender of Democracy as we are always taught in school.

Recognizing lies for what they are is a part of the process of growing up! America, it is time to grow up! It is time to confront this heinous pack of lies! It is time to insist that the Obama administration begin a REAL investigation. It is time to insist that a Federal Grand Jury investigate every count of high treason, mass murder and domestic terrorism that was perpetrated upon the people of the US by the Bush administration, collaborators in the Pentagon, K-Street, the Congress and the leadership of the Republican party, Marvin Bush's 'Securacom', Larry Silverstein, General Myers, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and, of course, George W. Bush who was, at the time,m the 'Commander-in-Chief' and ultimately responsible for the orders given the US military to 'stand down'.

By Donald Rumsfeld's own admission, he was unaware of any threats to the Pentagon -- the building where he was located during the September 11th attacks -- until an aircraft crashed into the side of it, and he ran out "into the smoke" to see if it might be a "A bomb? I had no idea." (ABC News This Week, Interview 9/16/01).

Well, that's a pretty tall tale by any standard. The New York Times reported that by 8:13am, the FAA was aware of the first hijacking out of Boston. The Pentagon explosion, which Donald Rumsfeld claimed he had "no idea," did not occur until approximately 9:37am, nearly an hour and a half later, this after two of the tallest buildings in the world were devastated. Note that a plane hijacked out of Boston can reach Washington D.C. as easily as it can reach New York City.

It was widely reported that Pentagon personnel were indeed aware of the threats to their security, and they took security measures on that morning. But not the "Secretary of Defense." Why should the man charged with defending the United States of America concern himself with hijacked aircraft?

There is a set of procedures for responding to hijackings. In particular, these procedures were changed on June 1, 2001 while Rumsfeld was in power as our Secretary of Defense, in a document called: "CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF INSTRUCTION, J-3 CJCSI 3610.01A"

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Lin Kuei on December 20, 2009, 04:46:02 pm
The “Concordia Foundation” numbers among its surrogates Nico Haupt,” a man who exhibits *prima facie *schizophrenic behavior. Allegations of COINTELPRO surrounding Haupt have, in the past, seemed to be justified. WeAreChange recently had two unprovoked incidents with Haupt, where he assaulted the groups members, only to be ignored by onlooking NYPD.

I find it strange that Josh Harris, the internet entrepreneur who invested in activities for the Gelatin 'art students' group, involved in the suspicious 'B-Thing' project (Info here (http://coreofcorruption.com/index.php/?p=293)) in WTC1, also invested in, and was invovlved with Nico Haupt.

Quote
To others involved in the project, it seemed reasonable that the appearance of ''The B-Thing'' meant secrecy was no longer necessary. Josh Harris, the Internet entrepreneur once known for holding extravagant art parties, explained that Leo Koenig, the 24-year-old art dealer who represents Gelatin, got him involved.

The night before the B-Thing, Mr. Harris said, he rented a top-floor suite at the Millennium Hilton, across the street from the Gelatin studio, and invited people to what guests described as a night of decadence. Near dawn, he and several others took cameras and boarded a helicopter, communicating with Gelatin via cell phone.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/18/nyregion/balcony-scene-unseen-atop-world-episode-trade-center-assumes-mythic-qualities.html

Then this story which describes Haupt coming to America and meeting Harris:

Quote
In a back room that looks like an abandoned garbage-collection area, German artist Nico Haupt lurks in the dimness. A cheap electric fan wafts air from a defunct freight-elevator shaft to the desk where Haupt creates computer videos.

Haupt ran the first RealAudio server in Germany, and staged the kind of publicity-seeking art events that Harris finds irresistible: a stunt, for instance, that called for 6 million unemployed people to jump in the ocean simultaneously, causing it to flood the home of former chancellor Helmut Kohl. "Only 200 people came," Haupt says. "But there were thousands from the press!"

Hoping to work at Pseudo, Haupt flew to New York and met Harris at one of his many parties. "He talked to me only one sentence," says Haupt. "He said, 'Move in.'" To Haupt, this seemed normal enough. "My profession is always to work with eccentric people, because I myself am also eccentric."
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.11/luvvy_pr.html

Haupt has admitted many of his crazy public displays are some kind of art or acting... Like this video of him going mental on a subway train http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVn4dWT1Vrc
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Rogue Penguin on December 21, 2009, 02:47:26 am
TOWERS TURNED TO DUST

Stop demonising the "NO PLANERS", they are on the same side as you, looking for a best fit senario for a global mind f**k event.

WAKE UP PEOPLE



Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Mike Philbin on December 21, 2009, 02:57:13 am
THERE WERE PLANES, two of them caught on MULTIPLE CAMERAS.

:)

There, I've said it.

As far as the WTC TURNED TO DUST, I like this (and I really like the illustrative 'where did 500,000 tonnes of steel go? i.e. not in the f**king basement!") as it's got the WHITE DOOMSDAY PLANE that could have housed the SKYLASER all over it and here's John Hutchison jellifying a  2" by 2" by 7" block of SOLID IRON to black dust with RESONANCE ALONE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjWE0K8zPGY&feature=player_embedded
nanothermite - I also LOVE this idea - it's a repaint job as terrorism - Israeli art student disinfo. Lovely game the NWO play.
Title: NEW FAKE 9/11 VIDEO MISSILE STRIKE PENTAGON..Whoa! Have you seen this one? (yawn)
Post by: changedname on August 15, 2010, 10:09:38 am
In this video it appears that they are showing some type of missle with the American Airlines logo written on it plus shows fake windows painted on it too! No wings on it yet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeLcE0sht-M

Title: Re: NEW FAKE 9/11 VIDEO MISSILE STRIKE PENTAGON..Whoa! Have you seen this one? (yawn)
Post by: Viper on August 15, 2010, 10:13:34 am
It's a fakey, anyways do you suppose they'd take the time to mix in an soundtrack for a vid that would be the hottest thing in the known universe?
Title: Re: NEW FAKE 9/11 VIDEO MISSILE STRIKE PENTAGON..Whoa! Have you seen this one? (yawn)
Post by: EvadingGrid on August 15, 2010, 10:17:49 am
In this video it appears that they are showing some type of missle with the American Airlines logo written on it plus shows fake windows painted on it too! No wings on it yet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeLcE0sht-M



Why are you posting dis-info ?
Title: Re: NEW FAKE 9/11 VIDEO MISSILE STRIKE PENTAGON..Whoa! Have you seen this one? (yawn)
Post by: changedname on August 15, 2010, 10:21:50 am
Disinfo??? Your sure this is disinfo??? U have all the proof needed to prove this is disinfo?? If so share it with me please because I saw this video and to me it sure appeared to be real to me!! So u show me the proof if what you say and maybe I can believe that! So let's have it! Your gonna accuse me then show me your proof!
Title: Re: NEW FAKE 9/11 VIDEO MISSILE STRIKE PENTAGON..Whoa! Have you seen this one? (yawn)
Post by: agentbluescreen on August 15, 2010, 11:06:44 am
In this video it appears that they are showing some type of missle with the American Airlines logo written on it plus shows fake windows painted on it too! No wings on it yet!


Regardless of the faked white light fim clips, the AGM 86d cruise missile depicted with false AA markings is of the exact top-intake (ground hugging) Boeing naval-launch version, not the fixed wing - bottom air-intake Lockheed Martin "air launched" Air Force version of the Tomahawk-Cruise.

The Boeing "naval-launched" version is intended to be shot out of a tube-launcher and thus has articulated folded wings that swing out and deploy shortly after launch so that it can be stored (wings folded beneath it) inside the launch tube. The top ramjet intake prevents it from (stall) sucking itself into the ground (or water) at low launch velocities when it dips slightly after takeoff until wings deploy and sufficient ramjet thrust/airspeed is achieved, and at very, very low ground hugging sea-to-land path altitudes.

This explains the navy gray air cargo pallet on the (Pegasys) JPADS launcher that was air dropped onto the lawn of the Pentagon (and then hurriedly hustled off) early that morning. It was not a fixed wing air launch Air Force (Lockheed-Martin) Tomahawk with AUP warhead, it was the ground hugging, tube-launched Boeing version.

MORE here:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=164982.msg986178#msg986178

This fake AA-painted "Daniel Chapter 8 Show" missile photo is certainly very damning and yet another major embarrassment for the Pentagon Mafia ZioNAZIs
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: agentbluescreen on August 15, 2010, 11:37:21 am
Disinfo??? Your sure this is disinfo??? U have all the proof needed to prove this is disinfo?? If so share it with me please because I saw this video and to me it sure appeared to be real to me!! So u show me the proof if what you say and maybe I can believe that! So let's have it! Your gonna accuse me then show me your proof!

Exactly.

Unless or until the zio-communist Pentagon/FBI/CIA Mafias are reorganized and/or disbanded and all this illegally and criminally "classified secret crap" about 9/11 is fully disclosed and made completely public (glasnost) once and for all EVERYTHING EVERYONE CLAIMS TO "KNOW" ABOUT 9/11 SHALL FOREVER REMAIN IN COMPLETE DISPUTE.

When one is never permitted to know the truth all is lies and/or conjecture.

It only serves their goals to have us fight with each other over their obvious lies in the completely lawless absence of verifiable proof with which they deliberately and maliciously continue to torture us.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: jimd3100 on August 15, 2010, 10:50:14 pm
Why are you posting dis-info ?

Yea, why? And I have a another question. Why do you expect us to respond to this BS over and over and over and over and over?
It's 2010 and you no planers still haven't figured out that planes flew into buildings on 9/11 and we are supposed to waste our time entertaining your preposterous nonsense scenarios over and over and over and over? Why? Why should we? And if we do, why should we be "nice" about it?

Disinfo??? Your sure this is disinfo??? U have all the proof needed to prove this is disinfo?? If so share it with me please because I saw this video and to me it sure appeared to be real to me!! So u show me the proof if what you say and maybe I can believe that! So let's have it! Your gonna accuse me then show me your proof!

It's only been done about a thousand times but every time a no planer posts some BS we are supposed to pretend it's really something and "investigate" it. Planes flew into buildings on 9-11 and that would include the pentagon. You are going to see evidence that no planers are lying to you to try and convince you no plane hit the pentagon. If you now have that evidence, why don't you wake up to why pentagon no planers are lying to you? It's because it's a hoax, planes flew into buildings on 9-11.  You are being lied to because the no plane at the pentagon is a BS Hoax. Wake up.

The movie starts off with a lie. An edited clip of Jamie Mcintyre, who never had any doubt that a plane crashed at the pentagon.

MCINTYRE: The Web sites often take statements out of context, such as this exchange from CNN in which I -- myself -- appear to be questioning whether a plane really hit the building: From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. In fact, I was answering a question based on a eyewitness account who thought the American Airlines plane landed short of the Pentagon. I was indicated there was no crash site near the pentagon only at the Pentagon

MCINTYRE: In fact there were thousands of tiny pieces of the plane, and I personally photographed a piece of the fuselage and what appeared to be part of the cockpit.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/16/transcript.wed/

Now the Unedited clip that proves McIntyre is telling the truth. He was answering a question on if the plane crashed near, or short of the pentagon, no the plane did not crash near the pentagon, it went in the pentagon. Dishonest no plane liars edited the clip just after the question was asked at the 2:50 mark as the Unedited clip shows....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjlBpChvzD8

After that we hear a sound bite sandwiched with the "creepy music" of someone saying "it was like a cruise missile with wings". Hey, that sounds like a good witness huh? Who was that? That was Mike Walter who used the missile as a METAPHOR. What he actually said was, "I saw this plane, an American Airlines Jet,.......it was like a cruise missile with wings went right into the pentagon". See? Now he's a bad witness who's "in on it". Absolutely pathetic. Hear it and see it yourself here....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PTRsuRao7A

So you all keep falling for this nonsense, and when REAL UNEDITED witnesses are shown to you, and real physical evidence is shown, what do I hear? "Oh, that's fake". Or "Oh that was planted". It's embarrassing.

Then we have a retarded picture of them loading the missile dressed as an American Airlines jet, because people are so f**king stupid, they would fall for that right? No, they wouldn't, it's f**king stupid.  And of coarse you would want to take a pic of it right? No, you wouldn't, that's also f**king stupid. This is how no planers would stoop to anything to get gullible people who desperately want to believe no plane hit the pentagon and need evidence for it, well, that didn't happen so fake evidence will suit some just fine. That is how you destroy a "truth" movement....how about accepting reality or find another 'hobby'.

WOW! Look at that! We caught them red handed!....
(http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix4/ORION1.jpg)

No, it's just more lies put out by no planers....before the dishonest edits....
(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-86-apiiop101141200.jpg)

Taken from this website....
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-86c.htm

And as for the incredibly stupid fake video it's been gone over for years now. At this point it's just an embarrassment. It's old boring and embarrassing......

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=49074.0

This fake AA-painted "Daniel Chapter 8 Show" missile photo is certainly very damning and yet another major embarrassment for the Pentagon Mafia ZioNAZIs

And as for agentblankscreen his nonsense is so old and so boring and such a waste of time anyone that believes anything he says on the pentagon deserves to be hoaxed.


Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: dragnet53 on October 05, 2010, 02:21:43 pm
Yea, why? And I have a another question. Why do you expect us to respond to this BS over and over and over and over and over?
It's 2010 and you no planers still haven't figured out that planes flew into buildings on 9/11 and we are supposed to waste our time entertaining your preposterous nonsense scenarios over and over and over and over? Why? Why should we? And if we do, why should we be "nice" about it?

It's only been done about a thousand times but every time a no planer posts some BS we are supposed to pretend it's really something and "investigate" it. Planes flew into buildings on 9-11 and that would include the pentagon. You are going to see evidence that no planers are lying to you to try and convince you no plane hit the pentagon. If you now have that evidence, why don't you wake up to why pentagon no planers are lying to you? It's because it's a hoax, planes flew into buildings on 9-11.  You are being lied to because the no plane at the pentagon is a BS Hoax. Wake up.

The movie starts off with a lie. An edited clip of Jamie Mcintyre, who never had any doubt that a plane crashed at the pentagon.

MCINTYRE: The Web sites often take statements out of context, such as this exchange from CNN in which I -- myself -- appear to be questioning whether a plane really hit the building: From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. In fact, I was answering a question based on a eyewitness account who thought the American Airlines plane landed short of the Pentagon. I was indicated there was no crash site near the pentagon only at the Pentagon

MCINTYRE: In fact there were thousands of tiny pieces of the plane, and I personally photographed a piece of the fuselage and what appeared to be part of the cockpit.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/16/transcript.wed/

Now the Unedited clip that proves McIntyre is telling the truth. He was answering a question on if the plane crashed near, or short of the pentagon, no the plane did not crash near the pentagon, it went in the pentagon. Dishonest no plane liars edited the clip just after the question was asked at the 2:50 mark as the Unedited clip shows....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjlBpChvzD8

After that we hear a sound bite sandwiched with the "creepy music" of someone saying "it was like a cruise missile with wings". Hey, that sounds like a good witness huh? Who was that? That was Mike Walter who used the missile as a METAPHOR. What he actually said was, "I saw this plane, an American Airlines Jet,.......it was like a cruise missile with wings went right into the pentagon". See? Now he's a bad witness who's "in on it". Absolutely pathetic. Hear it and see it yourself here....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PTRsuRao7A

So you all keep falling for this nonsense, and when REAL UNEDITED witnesses are shown to you, and real physical evidence is shown, what do I hear? "Oh, that's fake". Or "Oh that was planted". It's embarrassing.

Then we have a retarded picture of them loading the missile dressed as an American Airlines jet, because people are so f**king stupid, they would fall for that right? No, they wouldn't, it's f**king stupid.  And of coarse you would want to take a pic of it right? No, you wouldn't, that's also f**king stupid. This is how no planers would stoop to anything to get gullible people who desperately want to believe no plane hit the pentagon and need evidence for it, well, that didn't happen so fake evidence will suit some just fine. That is how you destroy a "truth" movement....how about accepting reality or find another 'hobby'.

WOW! Look at that! We caught them red handed!....
(http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix4/ORION1.jpg)

No, it's just more lies put out by no planers....before the dishonest edits....
(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-86-apiiop101141200.jpg)

Taken from this website....
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-86c.htm

And as for the incredibly stupid fake video it's been gone over for years now. At this point it's just an embarrassment. It's old boring and embarrassing......

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=49074.0

And as for agentblankscreen his nonsense is so old and so boring and such a waste of time anyone that believes anything he says on the pentagon deserves to be hoaxed.




wow, the low some people will do to get their noggins off. good photoshop editing, but man what the hell are wrong with people now a days?  >:(
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Ruth on October 30, 2010, 03:50:42 am
Is it possible, that while there where planes on that day, the footage we got to see from most sources was faked?


No.... why?  Why fake two planes crashing into two buildings in the middle of NY with so many witnesses?  Unless.... you want to confuse, distract and misdirect the 'no 747 aircraft' at the Pentagon.  And oh yes, where was THAT one? 

Seems like an ideal way to do it, doesn't it?  Perhaps this is what COINTELPRO is all about.... confusion, misdirection and distraction.

Its also obvious that two planes by themselves could not bring down 3 buildings at the WTC at the speed of gravity.  There was something more - but what?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on October 30, 2010, 04:21:06 am
Pre-placed nano-thermite.

No biggie.

They sure weren't brought down by missiles or planes.

Which is not to say the planes were not there.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Kilika on October 30, 2010, 04:52:18 am
Quote
You are being lied to because the no plane at the pentagon is a BS Hoax.

I don't know what exactly flew into the Pentagon, but it definately was not the type plane they claim, period. NO WAY it was a Boeing commercial airliner.

What it should say is, "You are being lied to because the Boeing commercial airliner at the pentagon is a BS Hoax".
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: phasma on October 30, 2010, 05:37:46 am
I think its clear that planes hit the WTC - they had to, there were too many witnesses, additionally, they would not be a hard target to hit.

the pentagon though is another story, I find it impossible to believe that a plane hit that - how could it have? I do not know what hit the pentagon - missle, a pre planted charge that just blew - but i`m satisfied that there was no plane. The cctv there WOULD have caught it. (Do you think I could sneak up to the pentagon and get near to it before I was spotted? I doubt I could, And I`m considerably more stelthy than a several thousand tonne aircraft!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: mr anderson on October 30, 2010, 10:02:13 pm
The question of "what hit the pentagon" has been the single most divisive issue within the movement, but we can all agree that absolutely nothing could have hit the Pentagon without those in charge allowing it to happen. While we support ongoing research into the event, we urge unity on our common ground; refocusing energy towards demanding accountability and away from endless debate. We urge framing our public presentation of the Pentagon issue around unanimously agreed upon issues such as the absent air defense, the missing 2.3 trillion dollars, the conflicting testimonies, the very low probability of an amateur pilot achieving the manoeuvre seen and the refusal by government agencies to release evidence.

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13909#13909
Title: TWNCPONE
Post by: birther truther tenther on December 29, 2010, 02:02:27 pm
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.
There were no commercial planes on 9/11. There were no commercial planes on 9/11.

...see how annoying that is.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Kilika on December 29, 2010, 02:26:22 pm
Now your being an ass! Especially with the interjecting of a falsehood with your silly post. The claim is not that there were no commercial airliners on 9/11, it is that no commercial airliner hit the Pentagon. Commercial airliners hit the towers, and apparently one crashed/was shot down in PA.

As Mr. Anderson quoted, the HUGE issue is that all the way up to the White House they knew a plane went off radar in the area of the Pentagon, and the tower planes had already hit, right? And the even claim they scramble fighter jets that so happen to go out to sea instead of inland. Yeah right!

So how the heck can they not have a massive amount of cameras on that plane as it came in? It SHOULD have been like the movie of the week with so much footage, but alas, it doesn't seem to exist. That is unacceptable for supposedly the most powerful military the earth has ever known.

It wasn't a commercial airliner that hit the Pentagon.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 29, 2010, 02:36:00 pm
BTT,

Who's saying that?

That would be pretty stupid.

There were obviously planes at WTC.

That's what we call a straw man argument. I haven't seen any true "no planers" around here in a coon's age.

Now the Pentagon is another story, and there whould be room for rational (non-divisive) debate on that one.

It is not immediately obvious that a jetliner necessarily hit the Pentagon on 9/11.  Too many things, for skeptical people, don't add up.

What Lefty is saying is correct, but --

Lefty, you could have left out the name-calling (as your good book suggests).

Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Kilika on December 29, 2010, 02:52:27 pm
I wouldn't go there if I were you citizen. Let it go. God knows my intent. If you want to scold me, and try to remind me of my own beliefs, remember what Jesus called some people. He called people names too as it was true. How is a viper any different than ass?

Thank you for your topical support. Validation that something is true is always nice.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 29, 2010, 03:00:49 pm
I've never called anyone on the forum an "ass" or used any direct insult like that.  My record stands clear on that, Lefty.

I am ready to answer for the things I have done before God and man.



"Call not thy brother raba, which means fool..."

If you cannot take correction from me on a point of Christian teaching, that may reflect more on your own stubbornness than my supposed hypocrisy, Lefty.

You could have simply apologized to BTT and left it at that.

You don't help the case by personalizing it.

You were right about everything else.

Beleive it or not, that's friendly advice.

Next time, try more gentle correction yourself, Lefty.

BTW, who is it Jesus called a "generation/brood of vipers"?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Kilika on December 29, 2010, 03:18:57 pm
Give me a break citizen. I'm quite sure they can speak for themselves. Your concern is admirable. Simply agree that the post was a disply of him being an ass and be done with it, because it's the truth and i don't make a habit of lying. He's better than that, and I called him on it. So you scold me for scolding him for truly being an ass? Your compassion is duly noted. Thank you.

You haven't shown me scripturally where I sinned against you. What does scripture say? How have I sinned against you?

If you want to be doctrinally correct, how about this one...


"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." Ephesians 4:29 (KJB)


Now that says I was not as meek as I could have been. But then our Lord wasn't particularly gentle in making His point to the money changers.


16   All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 
17   That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 
2 Timothy 3:16,17 (KJB)



That's why I believe Jesus told Simon...


"He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep." John 21:17 (KJB)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 29, 2010, 03:23:01 pm
Lefty,

I never said you sinned against me.  I'm not even sure you can.

Have a better one.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: jimd3100 on December 29, 2010, 05:00:21 pm
So how the heck can they not have a massive amount of cameras on that plane as it came in? It SHOULD have been like the movie of the week with so much footage, but alas, it doesn't seem to exist. That is unacceptable for supposedly the most powerful military the earth has ever known.

It wasn't a commercial airliner that hit the Pentagon.


So the big mystery for the last 10 years for you is why the military didn't run out with video cameras and wait for a plane to come in to make a movie of it to prove to you a commercial plane hit? 
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Kilika on December 29, 2010, 05:10:39 pm
What kind of question is that? That's nonsense. Why you being that way? Don't you think it odd that no video proof has been shown, especially since they openly admit they knew the plane was out there? And NOBODY got it on tape? A 757 and nobody got it on film?

Call me ignorant, but I'm not buying it. I'm no sucker, and what they are pushing is a sucker's bet. Can't you at least admit that something is wrong with that picture? How can you explain such a complete security failure?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 29, 2010, 05:15:35 pm
How many cameras did we have on our nation's military headquarters that day?

Did we not have enough?

What was the problem?

 ::)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: agentbluescreen on December 29, 2010, 10:42:34 pm
OK. Give it a break, "everybody in the world" saw the Boeing 757's with the Saudi Arabian Mossad agents flying them, crashing into the Pentagon and WTC 7 while broadcasting "Praise be to Allah", and we know it was them 'cause their passports blew out the window...

/sarc
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: pac522 on December 29, 2010, 10:52:03 pm
OK. Give it a break, "everybody in the world" saw the Boeing 757's with the Saudi Arabian Mossad agents flying them, crashing into the Pentagon and WTC 7 while broadcasting "Praise be to Allah", and we know it was them 'cause their passports blew out the window...

/sarc

Passports but no flight recorders. Hahaha, that's a good one. Puke.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 29, 2010, 10:54:16 pm
Eh, I can get you a dozen of those passports.  In LA, all you gotta do is go down by MacArthur Park.  But if you want some of those fancy fire-proof jobbies that were strewn around the Pentagon and WTC, well...

you're gonna have to pay a bit extra.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: cover fire hero on December 29, 2010, 11:50:09 pm
This is interesting. Maybe they don't release the footage from the Pentagon because they want people to be "No Planers" as they say. Hmm? They couldn't control the release of the other footage.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 29, 2010, 11:53:28 pm
Maybe, maybe, maybe.

But maybe don't change the baby.

And it don't change the facts in this case either, which are far from clear.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: cover fire hero on December 29, 2010, 11:57:39 pm
Well, if all their hiding is their own incompetence then the information will come in time otherwise it's been deep sixed. I'm pitiable anxious when I can't solve a mystery. I know this system is illusions based on illusions within illusions, and I am sick of staring at the shadows. Let's hope Shakespeare's right. "The truth will come to light. Murder cannot be hid for long."
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 30, 2010, 01:09:20 am
"The ripeness is all."

Shakespeare
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: cover fire hero on December 30, 2010, 01:16:47 am
"The ripeness is all."

Shakespeare

"While you do here snoring lie, open eyed conspiracy its time doth take." - Shakespeare  8)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 30, 2010, 01:19:52 am
CFH -- you're all right.

From one English teacher to another, you're OK.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Kilika on December 30, 2010, 02:21:33 am
Oh lord, you guys going to start swapping dangling participles or something? ;)
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 30, 2010, 03:08:57 am
Oh Leo,

My wife is cool with it, but uh...no.

What's a participle, again?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Kilika on December 30, 2010, 03:30:56 am
Hey, your the english dude, not me! Personally, I'd rather not talk openly about anything "dangling". :-X
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: Ruth on December 30, 2010, 03:51:09 am
I think people are confusing those planes that flew into the WTC (which there is plenty of evidence for) with the lack of flight 77 wreckage at the Pentagon (obviously Flight 77 didn't crash there and didn't do that damage).  I don't know how people could do that as these are two completely different sites!!!

Flight 93 was different again.  Blown to smitherines at some height, so multiple bits of debris scattered over a wide area.

Whats with this deliberate obfuscation?
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: iks83 on December 30, 2010, 05:01:47 am
yeah total lack of a plane at the pentagon. i mean you had wittnesses and piles of debris and luggage, damage to the building as wide as a plane, parts found that fit the plane, someone saying "the plane is 10 miles out do the orders still stand?" yep... total lack of any evidence for a plane. on the other hand we have all signs for a missile yeah like for exampleTHEREWASNOPLANEATTHEPENTAGON!
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: citizenx on December 30, 2010, 05:07:03 am
Logic:  it's a lot easier to dispose of the evidence of a missile. Not inconceivable.
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: EndTheEU on January 17, 2011, 09:52:24 pm
everyone using the term "no planers" are just as ignorant as people who use the term "truthers" and "conspiracy theorists"
Title: Re: NO PLANERS EXPOSED----->INSIDE+WeAreChangeColorado
Post by: egypt on January 17, 2011, 10:07:32 pm
That woman escaped through the "hole" that the plane supposedly made... ummm, She said there was no plane, or any parts of one --just a wide open hole.

Most people don't even know there is a Pentagon, or what it is for.

Love, e