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Geo-Politics / World War III => World War III => Topic started by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 04:37:26 am

Title: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 04:37:26 am
Holy crap this is bad.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane-near-border-syria-n468671 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane-near-border-syria-n468671)

ISTANBUL — Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border after it violated Turkish airspace on Tuesday, officials said.

The Russian jet was warned 10 times in five minutes before being shot down, according to the Turkish air force.

Syrian fighters on the ground and Turkish sources told NBC News that the Russian jet's pilots ejected and landed in an area north of Latakia, Syria, that is controlled by rebels fighting to topple President Bashar Assad. Russia has an air base in Latakia which is used to launch bombing raids targeting Assad's foes — including ISIS.





 
 Image: A Sukhoi Su-24 fighter jet

A file photo of a Su-24 fighter jet taking off from the Hmeymim air base near Latakia, Syria. Russia's Defence Ministry / Reuters

Footage from Turkish Haberturk TV showed a warplane going down in flames in a woodland area with a long plume of smoke trailing behind it.

Citing the Kremlin's Defense Ministry, Russian state-run RIA Novosti news agency also reported that a Su-24 had been downed in Turkey near the border with Syria, but said it had been shot down by ground fire. The plane was flying above Syrian territory and not Turkey, according to that report.

The head of the Turkish military briefed President Tayyip Erdogan on the incident, while Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu ordered consultations with NATO, the United Nations and related countries, Reuters reported citing their respective offices.

Russia's Defense Ministry was not immediately available for comment.





According to Russia's Defense Ministry, there are 69 warplanes based in Latakia. Russian planes have run thousands of bombing raids in Syria since Sept. 30 when the Kremlin announced it would start targeting ISIS.

However, U.S. officials say many of the strikes appear to be hitting areas where ISIS doesn't have a presence.

Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered his air force to step-up bombings after a passenger plane crashed in Egypt's Sinai on Oct. 31, killing all 224 on board. On Thursday, ISIS claimed it brought down the Metrojet plane with an improvised bomb.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 04:58:37 am
I don't think Russia will strike Turkey back at least with conventional warfare.  For if they did, WWIII is about to start, with Turkey being part of NATO.

But there probably will be some kind of repercussions.  Some kind of economic attack e.g. Oil cutoff or trade embargo is probably likely.

Then there is the possibility that the Russians down play this.  It was an accident.  Mechanical problem.  The Syrian Rebels did it.
I have a suspicion that this is the most likely scenario.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 05:04:44 am
It sounds like one of the two pilots has been captured by some other force.  The other pilot is still free with Russian helicopters trying to pick him up.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on November 24, 2015, 05:25:06 am
I as a "conspiracy theorist" think "Sultan" Erdogan approved or maybe ordered from NATO to overthrow the Russian plane.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 05:45:19 am
Here is a live feed from Russia Today:

https://www.rt.com/on-air/ (https://www.rt.com/on-air/)

It looks like a group of Syrian Rebels killed one of the pilots on the ground.
This is going to lead to a major escalation by Russia against the Rebels.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 24, 2015, 06:00:14 am


Turkey is trigger-happy, anxious to hurt Russia... because
Turkey is definitely on the ISIS/Crazy muslim side in
this struggle. I wonder if NATO would actually back
TURKEY in a shooting war w/RUSSIA ... or if they would
kick them out of NATO, the best course. I believe we will
face similar situations with other muslim countries
as this war unfolds.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on November 24, 2015, 07:11:39 am
very hostile act. the usual practice is to intecept and fly nearby until the unit will leave ur airspace. and Russia said the plane was 1km away from siria-turkey boundary

can the reason  be connected with oil-gas routes ? with Iran coming back? with any OPEС actions?

"Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu ordered consultations with NATO, the United Nations and related countries, Reuters reported citing their respective offices. " that is the 'funniest' part. as if Russia shot down a plane
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on November 24, 2015, 07:16:08 am
Russia’s president Vladimir Putin has warned Turkey of ‘serious consequences’ after a Russia fighter jet was shot down close to Turkey’s border with Syria. Putin described the incident as a “stab in the back” and accused Turkey of siding with Islamic State militants in Syria.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updateshttp://
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on November 24, 2015, 07:29:33 am
(http://i.imgur.com/2PfbxBU.jpg)(http://)

BBC supports Turkish version ?
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 07:44:19 am
(http://i.imgur.com/2PfbxBU.jpg)(http://)

BBC supports Turkish version ?

Looking at the maps and the 'Supposed' Turkish side of things, lead me to thinking... that that version is quite dodgy.

The Russian Jet if it had violated the air space, would have been over it for seconds, minutes in the worst case. 
Not the 5+ minutes with all those warnings.

It seems more likely, that if the pilots knew they were in danger, would have taken evasive action and employed counter measures. 
So... did they spontaneously fire upon the Russian jet?  That seems so much more plausible.  The Russian pilots wouldn't have been prepared for an attack, and that would have caught them by total surprise.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 07:48:44 am
It is possible that Russia does some kind of punitive attack back.

Any Turkish planes crossing into Syria, could become fair game.
They might even strike SAM sights or bases upon the border, citing dangerous situations detected by the pilots.  And the pilots acted in self defense.
I doubt NATO steps in if Russia does that.  It will just be very loud sabre rattling.

Would NATO even step in to fight Russia in case of a full on assault of Turkey anyway?  I hope we never find out.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 24, 2015, 07:51:17 am
I as a "conspiracy theorist" think "Sultan" Erdogan approved or maybe ordered from NATO to overthrow the Russian plane.

  Yes. Remember that Obama was just in Turkey on November 16. He and his minions may have planned a provocation to tick off Putin. Obama has been check mated by Putin.  Obama doesn't like to be upstaged by Putin even though Obama and the US  have played the coward's role in Syria. The US government and Central bankers main goal is to get Assad and replace him with a puppet so the NWO can strip Syria of its assets.  Then they want war with Iran.  Turkey wants to annex part of Syria as their prize in this fiasco. Turkey is definitely allied with the US and their goal is 180 degrees opposite of the regime in Washington DC.  Putin wants to get rid of ISIS and Obama and NATO want to get rid of Assad.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 24, 2015, 07:57:03 am
It is possible that Russia does some kind of punitive attack back.

Any Turkish planes crossing into Syria, could become fair game.
They might even strike SAM sights or bases upon the border, citing dangerous situations detected by the pilots.  And the pilots acted in self defense.
I doubt NATO steps in if Russia does that.  It will just be very loud sabre rattling.

Would NATO even step in to fight Russia in case of a full on assault of Turkey anyway?  I hope we never find out.

  Putin is smart. I would bet he tries to downplay this but he will issue warnings to Turkey. He knows that this could lead to a full scale war. At the moment he doesn't have enough troops in the region to fight a war. Let us hope that this situation will cool down.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on November 24, 2015, 08:02:06 am
  Yes. Remember that Obama was just in Turkey on November 16. He and his minions may have planned a provocation to tick off Putin. Obama has been check mated by Putin.  Obama doesn't like to be upstaged by Putin even though Obama and the US  have played the coward's role in Syria. The US government and Central bankers main goal is to get Assad and replace him with a puppet so the NWO can strip Syria of its assets.  Then they want war with Iran.  Turkey wants to annex part of Syria as their prize in this fiasco. Turkey is definitely allied with the US and their goal is 180 degrees opposite of the regime in Washington DC.  Putin wants to get rid of ISIS and Obama and NATO want to get rid of Assad.

Bravo. Maybe President Obama authorized or ordering "Sultan" to make someone an incident against Russia as the pressure on Putin to accept the overthrow of President of Syria Assad with Obama's promise to Putin then will then all together move fight against ISIS.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Effie Trinket on November 24, 2015, 08:46:35 am
Turkey is definitely allied with the US and their goal is 180 degrees opposite of the regime in Washington DC.
Typo?  Since Turkey is allied with the US, how can their goal be the opposite of Washington DC, which is the same as the US?  Nevermind the fact that Washington DC is 100% a puppet to what the CSIS and CFR want.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 24, 2015, 08:56:10 am
Typo?  Since Turkey is allied with the US, how can their goal be the opposite of Washington DC, which is the same as the US?  Nevermind the fact that Washington DC is 100% a puppet to what the CSIS and CFR want.


  Sorry.  Yes. I meant the USA and Turkey are 180 degrees  opposite of Russia. I am trying to communicate with my damn outdated iPhone.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: stray85 on November 24, 2015, 08:56:52 am
Have any of you ever met a Russian?

They will strike back very hard...this will not go unanswered..especially after the pilots being murdered on the ground like that....

I remember a few years back when Chechen rebels filmed the executions of some Russian border guards...Russia struck back very bloody..vengefully..Russia on war mode is hell on earth. The video of this plane being shot down and the pilots being executed will awaken the sleeping bear...
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: sipsipaway on November 24, 2015, 09:30:31 am
NATO and Russia ongoing disagreement over Turkish airspace reported October 2015
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/06/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-russia-idUSKCN0RZ0FT20151006#VfctDXqwslVq3VXS.97
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 24, 2015, 09:40:58 am
Bravo. Maybe President Obama authorized or ordering "Sultan" to make someone an incident against Russia as the pressure on Putin to accept the overthrow of President of Syria Assad with Obama's promise to Putin then will then all together move fight against ISIS.
  Yes. Remember that Obama was just in Turkey on November 16. He and his minions may have planned a provocation to tick off Putin. Obama has been check mated by Putin.  Obama doesn't like to be upstaged by Putin even though Obama and the US  have played the coward's role in Syria. The US government and Central bankers main goal is to get Assad and replace him with a puppet so the NWO can strip Syria of its assets.  Then they want war with Iran.  Turkey wants to annex part of Syria as their prize in this fiasco. Turkey is definitely allied with the US and their goal is 180 degrees opposite of the regime in Washington DC.  Putin wants to get rid of ISIS and Obama and NATO want to get rid of Assad.
             Brother , you hit the nail on the head. They have painted these M.E. foreign leaders as terrorists,boogie men, to infer they are liberating these nations, in effect they are invading them.
Assad is holding out despite the fact the crews MSM choir stuffs down our throat daily he was a mass murderer, he used poison gas on his people--The Bull Sh**te
Assad did not order Syria chemical weapons attack, says ...
www.theguardian.com › World › Syria
  How many folks realize:. In 1988, he continued his studies at a military hospital in the city, where he specialized in ophthalmology. He moved to London in 1992 to fulfill his medical residency at St. Mary's Hospital. This guy was into helping people, a doctor,,for muck sake.

, the terrorists did use the gas and informed folks know it!  Turkey wants a piece of Syria, cutting up the bloody pie.
 
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 24, 2015, 09:55:13 am

... escalating.


Russian rescue helicopter 'shot down by Syrian rebels'
while searching for pilots of plane downed by Turkey


A Russian rescue helicopter has been shot down by Syrian rebels while searching for pilots missing after Turkey downed a Russian jet.

The helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing in a government-held area in Syria's Latakia province.

A Syrian insurgent group, which uses U.S. Tow missiles, said its fighters hit the helicopter with an anti-tank missile.

  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russian-rescue-helicopter-shot-down-6891003
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 10:19:39 am
This thing has the capacity to now spin out of control very, very fast.

Why the hell are we arming Rebels/terrorists with Tow Missiles?
The Russian response to the rebels is going to be huge, they are going to escalate.

It's their response to Turkey that has me worried.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 24, 2015, 10:44:26 am


  CNN Turk has sources that claim
both of the Russian pilots are alive


LIVE UPDATES BELOW (GMT):
4:15pm: Contrary to previous reports, CNN Turk has sources that claim both of the Russian pilots are alive, and Russia may have a POW / hostage situation on its hands. If this is true, and the earlier video and reports of Syrian rebels firing at the descending pilots remain accurate, they either missed the pilots or only injured them with small arms fire, and the wounded pilot depicted in the widely-circulated cell phone video is wounded but alive.

#BREAKING Sources say 2 pilots alive, they are in
hands of opposition, efforts underway to secure their
release pic.twitter.com/qyaL4Tvt2i


— CNN Türk ENG (@CNNTURK_ENG) November 24, 2015

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/24/video-nato-shoots-down-russian-fighter-jet-on-syria-border/
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: One Revelator on November 24, 2015, 11:09:05 am
Why the hell are we arming Rebels/terrorists with Tow Missiles?

Or an Abrams tank, or humvees, or an entire fleet of shiny new Toyota pick-up trucks?

If we defund them, they will go away. But that might hurt the security industrial complex.....

For the rulers/authorities, commerce is much more important than human lives.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on November 24, 2015, 11:47:54 am
Interesting commentary for some Serbian Right-wing portal >

   11/24. 2015. at 17:35

"If you believe the information to the chief dealer with oil Erdogan's son !? Recep Erdogan can not get over the destroyed convoys with oil, as well as storage and wants to put on the Russians to retaliate, and then NATO into conflict with Putin!"
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 24, 2015, 12:42:39 pm


Turkey is trigger-happy, anxious to hurt Russia... because
Turkey is definitely on the ISIS/Crazy muslim side in
this struggle. I wonder if NATO would actually back
TURKEY in a shooting war w/RUSSIA ... or if they would
kick them out of NATO, the best course. I believe we will
face similar situations with other muslim countries
as this war unfolds.

... NATO has called a big meeting after
the shoot down of the RUSSIAN plane
and helicopter:


http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2015/11/24/nato-calls-extraordinary-meeting-after-turkey-downs-russian-jet/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NATO Should Tell Turkey:
‘This Thanksgiving, You’re Dumped’

by RAHEEM KASSAM  24 Nov 2015

It’s time to dump Turkey from NATO, and immediately
suspend its accession process to the European Union
(EU). There, I said it.


Some of us have been expressing deep concerns about the regress of the country of Ataturk for years, while others, including Britain’s Prime Minister David Cameron and his European Parliamentary colleague Daniel Hannan MEP, have been agitating for an immediate inclusion of Turkey into the EU. It simply cannot happen.

This morning’s downing of a Russian jet underscores the problems with Turkey’s NATO membership and EU accession. It is perhaps not the worst example of how Turkey is not fit to be in a formal military alliance with the United Kingdom and the United States, but it underscores the point that the country is simply not ready – not even as ready as it was pre-2000. The country has regressed in three key areas as far as Europe and the United States should be concerned: on security matters, on human rights matters, and as a hub for mass migration into Europe.

Turkey could be downgraded to a “major, non-NATO ally”,
and its EU accession timeline reset on the basis of the above.


√  http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/24/nato-should-tell-turkey-this-thanksgiving-youre-dumped/
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Qster on November 24, 2015, 01:16:35 pm
Russia has made its first substantive response to this incident.

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger

https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/

In summary the following measures are reported to be taken to protect aircraft:

1. Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise [protection] of fighter jets
2.Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
3. Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended


So if a Turkish F16 pulls this again, or even looks like they might, they will be facing anti-air missiles from the Moscow class cruiser and the SU30 or 34 fighter escort.

"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,” lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy said during the briefing.

“All military contacts with Turkey will be suspended,” he added.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: TahoeBlue on November 24, 2015, 01:55:03 pm
So does this mean Russia is at war with Turkey? or is Turkey at war with Russia? Or each other?
Is this technically WWIII/IV?
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Qster on November 24, 2015, 02:10:39 pm
Although NATO has made this standard obligatory statement:

"We stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally," Stoltenberg said at a press briefing.

However it is revealing that no-one - no country whatsoever - has come out in support of Turkey. I don't think they have made themselves the popular kids in NATO.

Indeed the vice Chancellor of Germany has made these comments about Turkey according to RT live

https://www.rt.com/news/323240-russia-turkey-warplane-downed/

German Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel called Turkish actions unpredictable.

“This incident shows for the first time that we are to dealing with an actor who is unpredictable according to statements from various parts of the region – that is not Russia, that is Turkey,” Gabriel said, as cited by DPA news agency. He added that Turkey was playing “a complicated role” in the Syrian conflict.


That sounds to me like diplomatic speak for "Turkey are fakking nutjobs and please do not associate us with anything those maniacs do".
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 24, 2015, 02:55:15 pm
Quote/S.C-Guardian:

More now from the Russian military, and about that new statement that a marine on a helicopter sent in to search for the crew of the downed jet also died.

Russia’s military general staff is quoted by Russian news agencies as saying that one of the pilots of the Su-24 warplane that was shot down by Turkey was killed by groundfire as he parachuted from his crippled plane.

General staff spokesman Lt. Gen. Sergei Rudskoi, added that rebels in Syria fired on a Russian helicopter that was searching for the two pilots of the Su-24.

The shooting killed one crew member on the Mi-8 helicopter and forced it to land in neutral territory, he says.

The rest of the crew was evacuated. Rudskoi also said that Russian radar data showed that Turkish warplanes had violated Syrian airspace in the course of shooting down the Russian plane
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 03:03:25 pm
So does this mean Russia is at war with Turkey? or is Turkey at war with Russia? Or each other?
Is this technically WWIII/IV?


My gut tells me this is not the big one.

I think Russia will keep cool and calm.  They will respond, but probably not in a way that leads to war.

On the other hand, my gut is also telling me this is some serious foreshadowing... 
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: iamc2 on November 24, 2015, 03:06:42 pm
 World War III may be rearing its' Ugly Dragon Head!

...the world is now in chaos because of Radical Islam! and Dumb Global policies !
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 24, 2015, 03:30:23 pm
quote poncho:

"My gut tells me this is not the big one."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah, Putin can be very cool under attack ...
and he knows the danger of NATO entanglement.
However, we can't trust Turkey ... there will
no doubt be more provocations ... the key
is dumping Turkey from the alliance ... I
believe at this point France & Germany are
signalling NAY to ERDOGAN -- US and UK,
saying YAY. The lines are unclear ... WHO IS
the enemy here? The emergency NATO summit
may determine that.

Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 24, 2015, 03:48:42 pm
The emergency NATO summit
may determine that.

Indeed.  The outcome of that and any future decisions that they pronounce, will be telling.

I have a feeling you may be right about them dropping Turkey.  If that happens, does Russia pounce? 
I could see that, given what has happened to the Russians ally, Syria.  Tit for tat.   Russia showing it too can play the destabilization game that west has been so fond of.
Destabilization game, the real life version of the hunger games... (Fitting, given the timing of the final one of those.)
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Qster on November 24, 2015, 04:08:34 pm
Indeed.  The outcome of that and any future decisions that they pronounce, will be telling.

I have a feeling you may be right about them dropping Turkey.  If that happens, does Russia pounce? 
I could see that, given what has happened to the Russians ally, Syria.  Tit for tat.   Russia showing it too can play the destabilization game that west has been so fond of.
Destabilization game, the real life version of the hunger games... (Fitting, given the timing of the final one of those.)

The extraordinary NATO meeting has already happened and the statement is essentially as I posted earlier - support for Turkey.

This was predictable but what is being said behind the scenes is probably somewhat less supportive to Turkey, as we have seen from comments out of Germany and elsewhere.

After the NATO meeting, the Russians came out with the statement that I posted earlier, about sending a missile cruiser and using fighter escorts.

We'll see what happens when/if a Turkish F16 gets shot down by a Russian fighter escort or ship to air missile. Even if that happens, the appetite in Europe and US to support Turkey over this (apart from hot air and outrage) will be pretty non-existent imo.

Link to NATO statement and q&a session:

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_125052.htm
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Sasha on November 24, 2015, 04:10:32 pm
Even if the plane was in their (Syrian) airspace for few seconds, that is no excuse to attack...  It was clear that this plane was not an aggressive plane.  Still it was shot down.
- Erdogan circa 2012 (https://twitter.com/INTHENOWRT/status/669244417589440512)


Erdogan in 2012: Brief Airspace Violations Can't Be Pretext for Attack (http://sputniknews.com/military/20151125/1030698044/erdogan-airspace-violation-contradiction.html)
Nov 25 - Sputnik News

Turkey has cited airspace violations as its justification for shooting down a Russian Su-24 bomber on Tuesday. But only three years ago, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan specifically stated that such actions should "never be a pretext for an attack."

In response to the downing of a Russian bomber by Turkish fighter jets on Tuesday, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan insisted that the military’s actions were justified.

"We did not want this situation to happen, but everybody has to respect Turkey’s right to defend its borders," he told reporters, adding that the military’s actions were "fully in line with Turkey’s rules of engagement."

Yet, three years ago, Erdogan had somewhat different thoughts on the matter.

In 2012, Ankara accused Syria of shooting down a Turkish F-4 Phantom. That plane crash-landed in the Mediterranean after veering into Syrian airspace. In response, an outraged Erdogan lambasted the Syrian military for acting in haste.

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he told Parliament at the time.

continues...
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 24, 2015, 04:14:58 pm
^^^^ - NATO STATEMENT

Yeah, looks like on paper they are taking
a hardline ... but seems not very strong
statement in Turkey's favor to me.
We'll have to see how this plays out in the
individual countries. The best thing NATO's
got is continuing the BS about ISIL vs "moderates".
Sticky situation ... especially with
a 95% muslim nation with BIG GUNS
throwing gasoline on the flames. Here's
a good question: If US/NATO planes
wander into Turkish airspace while on
a mission against 'radicals' (LOL), would
Erdogan shoot them down? Hollande, I
believe, is asking the same question.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: TahoeBlue on November 24, 2015, 04:41:28 pm
new continuing topic ...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34915253
Tunisia blast: Explosion hits bus carrying presidential guards

An explosion has hit a bus carrying presidential guards in Tunisia's capital, Tunis, killing at least 12 people, officials said.

President Beji Caid Essebsi has declared a 30-day state of emergency and the capital is under curfew.
No group has yet said it was behind the attack.

Tunisia has been targeted by the Islamic State group, including an attack by a gunman on the beach resort of Sousse in June, killing 38 people.

The North African state is believed to be the biggest exporter of jihadis, with the authorities saying at least 3,000 of its nationals are fighting in Iraq and Syria.

The explosion happened at a bus stop where the presidential guard picks up and drops off its staff, near the former headquarters of the party of deposed President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali.
...
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Sasha on November 24, 2015, 07:03:32 pm
Russian Defense Ministry Video Proves Su-24 Never Entered Turkish Airspace (http://sputniknews.com/military/20151124/1030695406/mod-su-24-flight-path.html)
Nov 24 - Sputnik News - video in the link

While authorities in Ankara have insisted that it shot down the Russian Su-24 bomber after the aircraft entered Turkish airspace, the Russian Defense Ministry has released video proving that the plane never left Syrian airspace.

According to a leaked letter written to the UN Security Council by the Turkish Ambassador, Turkey’s military justified the shooting down of a Russian bomber by claiming that the aircraft had entered Turkish airspace for 17 seconds.

But flight data released by Russian Ministry of Defense shows that the Su-24s never entered Turkey, and were attacked while performing legitimate maneuvers over Syria.

On Tuesday, Turkish F-16s shot down a Russian Su-24M Fencer bomber. One of the pilots has been confirmed dead by Russian authorities, shot by rebel ground units after ejecting.

Russian President Vladimir Putin described the incident as a "stab in the back, carried out against us by accomplices of terrorists."
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 24, 2015, 08:08:32 pm
^^^

... can't make sense of it ... I'm sure
the NATO side have their "experts" lined
up and that they will ignore reality
just as in the shot-down plane
in the UKRAINE.

Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Sasha on November 24, 2015, 08:49:38 pm
They'll have to.  The pilots weren't engaged in aggression across the border by anyone's assertions yet nor were they in Turkish airspace for any significant length of time, even by the most stretched estimates.   Plus, Turkey's got some fairly official voices speaking about this as an act of Turkish state policy. 

Sky News' coverage included another gem.  The bit about others violating the Turkish government's rights, devised from international law, to protect the 'security of its citizens and borders', while Turkish official state policy has been to violate the the same sovereignties of their neighbor for years is more than a touch hypocritical.  No country's sovereignty should be violated and far, far fewer would be if any significant number of powerful nations, Turkey included, cared about international law for the purposes of doing anything with it other than remembering it when it serves their own protection.  From Sky News (http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/11/25/turkey-warned-russian-jet-10-times--us.html),

The United States believes the Russian jet shot down by Turkey was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a US official told Reuters.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the assessment was based on detection of the heat signature of the jet....

Turkish ambassador Halit Cevik said in a letter to the UN Security Council that his government was determined to defend its sovereignty, security and borders.

'Our rules of engagement are well known and are reiterated to all parties on numerous occasions,' wrote Cevik.

'Turkey will not hesitate to exercise its rights emanating from international law to protect the security of its citizens and borders.'
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 24, 2015, 09:02:42 pm


... it was a TURKEY SHOOT, to make a pun. They were lying
in wait for the SLIGHTEST infraction/reason to hit RUSSIA
because they want to use the NATO entanglement to force
an un-natural alignment ... not along muslim/Christian lines.
In my opinion, the Xian nations are being played by the
muslim nation ... as usual.



Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on November 25, 2015, 05:12:30 am
http://sputniknews.com/military/20151125/1030698044/erdogan-airspace-violation-contradiction.html
"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," Erdogan 2012
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on November 25, 2015, 06:09:20 am
funny thing that both USA and Turkey (to put it mildly) are not that anti-ISIS forces

with regard to Turkey - it seems that F-16 could have been regularly patrolling this area in order to find a chance to strike. (assuming russian plane did cross the boundary. however hardly turkish plane could make 10 warnings during 5 min as the route through turkish territory was about 3km as turskish state claimed)

anyway, if countries are not at war, nobody shot down planes.

and yeah, the professional footage presented on turkish tv is also kind of strange. as if cameraman knew what would happen. however turkish turkmen could have good equipment for some sort of propaganda movies
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 25, 2015, 07:45:43 am


Russia planning no war with Turkey
November 25, 14:27

Sergey Lavrov after talks with his Turkish counterpart
said Moscow's attitude towards Turkish people has not
changed though it has changed towards the Turkish leadership


"... the bilateral ties will be seriously
revised after the plane downing incident.


  http://tass.ru/en/politics/839164
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 25, 2015, 08:12:57 am


  Yes this incident is way too small to escalate this fiasco in Syria but you can bet that something BIG will happen in the near future---maybe an attack on one of Putin's warships, etc.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 25, 2015, 08:14:40 am
 Putin doesn't want a war, others are attempting to provoke the war agenda.
 Kinda like the message is being sent, back off Russia, allow ISIS to do it's thing.
 
 
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 25, 2015, 09:33:48 am
Is Turkey Lying: Rescued Russian Pilot Says There Was No Warning Before Turkish F-16 Opened Fire

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/turkey-lying-rescued-russian-pilot-says-there-was-no-warning-turkish-f-16-opened-fir (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/turkey-lying-rescued-russian-pilot-says-there-was-no-warning-turkish-f-16-opened-fir)

The conflicting stories over yesterday's dramatic downing of a Russian jet on the Syria-Turkish border continue to grow, and after the ongoing confusion whether the Russian pilot did or did not enter Turkish territory for a grand total of 17 seconds, moments ago Konstantin Murahtin, the co-pilot from the downed Russian jet who survived the ground fire by US-armed rebels unlike his pilot, and who was rescued by the Syrian army, said that contrary to official reports that Turkey had somehow warned the Russian jet "10 times" (in 17 seconds?) that it would fire, Turkey had in fact given no warning whatsoever before downing the Russian jet.

This is what he said, cited by Sputnik:






"There were no warnings. Not via the radio, not visually. There was no contact whatsoever. That's why we were keeping our combat course as usual. You have to understand what the cruising speed of a bomber is compared to an F-16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have shown themselves by heading on a parallel course. But there was nothing. And the rocket hit our tail completely unexpectedly. We didn't even see it in time to take evasive maneuvres."

It would be quite easy to confirm or deny his allegation that Turkey is lying by simply checking the data from the plane's Black Box.

Murahtin also made it clear that there was no violation of the Turkish airspace and added that the crew of the downed Russian bomber jet knew the area of the operation "like the back of their hands."

The co-pilot added that he wants to continue serving in the Russian aviation group in Syria: "I can't wait until I get the all-clear from the medics, so that I can step back into the ranks. I'm going to ask our command to keep me on this base — I have a debt to repay, for my commander."

The bottom line is that someone is lying, and while for now there has been no material escalation in tensions between Turkey and Russia, it is almost assured that Putin is now carefully plotting just what his next move should be, one which will likely include the missile cruiser by the Syrian coast and any Turkish fighter jets that stray into Syrian territory.

For now what Russia appears set on doing next is closing the Syrian border with Turkey. As earlier reported, Moscow backs the proposal of French President Francois Hollande to close the Turkish-Syrian border, Sergei Lavrov said.






"I think this is the right desicion. I hope President Hollande will tell us more about the issue tommorow. We would be ready to consider all measures that needed for this [closing the border]. By closing the border we will basically thwart the terrorist threat in Syria," the minister said.

But Lavov was not finished. In a press conference earlier today, he first said that "Moscow is not avoiding contacts with Ankara" citing his phone conversation with the Turkish FM as proof.

He press on saying that "too many indicators showing terrorist threats have appeared on Turkish soil", Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday.






"We cannot leave everything that has happened without a reaction not because we have to respond somehow, that’s not it. Actually there have been too many indicators on Turkish soil that show a direct terrorist threat to our citizens."

 

“I think that now we will insist on not just a list of members of this group, but also agree on the overall understanding of the channels the terrorists use to get their feedlines and support."

 

“We will somehow probably have to deal with certain countries so that this support ends,” Lavrov added.

It is quite clear just which "countries" the Russian minister was referring to, and it is safe to say the entire world is eagerly looking forward to see just what Russia's ultimate decision will be.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 25, 2015, 09:34:50 am
Russia Says Turkey's Attack On Jet Was "Planned Provocation" As Ankara Moves Tanks Near Syrian Border

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/russia-says-turkeys-attack-jet-was-planned-provocation-ankara-moves-tanks-near-syria (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/russia-says-turkeys-attack-jet-was-planned-provocation-ankara-moves-tanks-near-syria)
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 25, 2015, 09:50:10 am
Russia Says Turkey's Attack On Jet Was "Planned Provocation" As Ankara Moves Tanks Near Syrian Border

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/russia-says-turkeys-attack-jet-was-planned-provocation-ankara-moves-tanks-near-syria (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/russia-says-turkeys-attack-jet-was-planned-provocation-ankara-moves-tanks-near-syria)

  Yes. Remember that Obama was just in Turkey on November 16. He and his minions may have planned a provocation to tick off Putin. Obama has been check mated by Putin.  Obama doesn't like to be upstaged by Putin even though Obama and the US  have played the coward's role in Syria.
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/

  Was Washington Complicit with Turkey in Downing Russia’s Aircraft?

by Stephen Lendman

Both countries are NATO allies, united against Assad, wanting him toppled, actively complicit in supporting and using ISIS, as well as other terrorist groups as proxy foot soldiers in the war Obama launched in March 2011.

It’s inconceivable Turkey acted on its own, independent of US-dominated NATO. Its action is a major geopolitical incident - a premeditated act of war against Russia in Syrian airspace.

Ankara claiming the aircraft entered Turkish airspace, ignoring multiple warnings, has the distinct aroma of a bald-faced lied to cover up a hostile act.

Erdogan’s recklessness ruptured Turkish/Russian relations, at least for the time being. Sergey Lavrov cancelled his scheduled Wednesday trip to Istanbul, saying “(a) decision has been made to cancel the meeting at the level of Russian and Turkish foreign ministers…”

He urged Russian citizens avoid visiting Turkey, leaving themselves vulnerable to terrorism, adding: “It’s necessary to emphasize that the terror threats with their roots in Turkey have been aggravated. And that’s true even if we don’t take into account what happened today. We estimate the threats to be no less than in Egypt.”

Russia’s state tourism agency Rostourism recommended suspending tour package sales to Turkey. Moscow-based Natalie tours already did so.

Putin minced no words blasting Erdogan, saying “(t)his incident stands out against the usual fight against terrorism.”

“Our troops are fighting heroically against terrorists, risking their lives. But the loss we suffered today came from a stab in the back delivered by accomplices of the terrorists.” He warned of grave consequence for Russian/Turkish relations.

A Turkish Lockheed-Martin produced F-16 warplane willfully and without provocation downed Russia’s aircraft posing no threat to Ankara’s national security, Putin explained.

He’s well aware of Erdogan’s complicity with terrorists Russia is combating in Syria - at the request of its government, its actions entirely legal and heroic against a common scourge.

“IS has big money, hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars, from selling (stolen Syrian) oil. In addition they are protected by the military of an entire nation,” Putin stressed - leaving no doubt he means Turkey, well aware of Washington using ISIS and other takfiri terrorists as proxy foot soldiers against Assad’s legitimate government.

“One can understand why they are acting so boldly and blatantly,” said Putin. “Why they kill people in such atrocious ways. Why they commit terrorist acts across the world, including in the heart of Europe.”

Recalling Russia’s ambassador may come next. Expect Putin to react appropriately to what happened. It’s too serious to ignore or smooth over through normal diplomatic channels between both nations.

Putin explained Ankara didn’t contact Russia after what happened, instead outrageously called an emergency late afternoon Tuesday NATO meeting - apparently wanting the Alliance to serve the interests of ISIS, he added. Its actions won’t be tolerated, he stressed.

Washington backed Turkey’s absurd claim about issuing “10 warnings” before downing Russia’s aircraft. Was it directly complicit with what happened?

It bears repeating. It’s inconceivable Turkey acted alone without permission or direct complicity with NATO’s highest authority. America provides 75% of its budget. It calls the shots - deciding whether, when, where and how to act or react.

Erdogan’s action was reckless. Obama is playing with fire if his involvement with what happened is determined. Putin won’t let it pass without appropriate actions in response, already begun.

An official protest was lodged with Turkey military attache. A Russian Defense Ministry statement said “(w)e are considering actions of the Turkish air forces as an unfriendly act.”

Moscow’s anti-terrorist campaign in Syria will continue as planned, maybe intensified further after what happened - Turkey now clearly and openly an adversary in the war on terrorism, risking direct confrontation with Russia.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 25, 2015, 10:12:07 am
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/

  EXCERPTS FROM THE ARTICLE BELOW....

Western Media Fail to Condemn Turkish Aggression


Failure to condemn clear aggression shows support. Turkey’s act of war was clear and unambiguous - recklessness against Russia’s real war on terror, polar opposite America’s phony war, backing ISIS and other terrorist groups, not combatting them.


New York Times editors cited the risk of “wider confrontation,” falsely calling Obama’s proxy aggression on Syria a “civil war.”

Saying Tuesday’s incident “adds to tensions between Ankara and Moscow, which support different factions in Syria, and threatens to worsen relations between Russia and Turkey’s NATO allies, which have been going downhill since Russia invaded Ukraine.”

Fact: Times editors lied, claiming “Russia invaded Ukraine,” the Big Lie they’ve repeated many times, never citing evidence because none exists - other than phony videos unrelated to conflict in Donbass.

Times editors: “The only winner in a confrontation between Russia and the West is the Islamic State.”

False! Moscow’s campaign continues neutralizing,  significantly weakening and destroying its forces, the goal being to prevent their spread to Central Asia and its own territory.
The Washington Post sided with NATO, saying it “faces (a) new Mideast crisis…” It lied claiming “Russia back(s) the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad (in contrast to) a US-led coalition conducting airstrikes against the Islamic State.”

Russia supports Syrian sovereignty and the right of its people alone to decide who’ll lead them, free from outside interference.

Neocon Wall Street Journal editors headlined “Turkey’s Warning Shot,” saying “Putin may be testing NATO’s resolve, and the Turks need US support.”

They repeated Big Lies blasted throughout Western media - claiming Russian aircraft entered Turkish airspace illegally and didn’t heed 10 warnings - failing to explain Moscow poses no threat to Turkey or any other nation, or say no evidence support’s Ankara’s claim about Russian aircraft entering its territory.

Journal editors turned truth on its head, saying Tuesday’s incident “fits the Russian pattern of bombing enemies of the Assad regime except Islamic State - a useful reminder that Mr. Putin is not a fit partner in the coalition to fight ISIS.”

Then ludicrously asked “why Mr. Putin would risk provoking Turkey” - when no provocation occurred Tuesday or earlier. Absurdly saying Moscow’s alliance with Iran and its Shiite Muslim proxies in Damascus and Beirut, who see themselves as competing with the Sunni Turks for regional dominance,” may explain what happened - along with Putin “testing NATO cohesion.”

“If Russia continues to prick Turkey and NATO fails to support Ankara, it will expose the hollowness of NATO’s Article 5 collective-defense obligations.” Are Journal editors urging WW III?
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on November 25, 2015, 10:16:06 am
survived pilot said no (audio/visual) contact was made by Turkey. he also exluded being in Turkish airspace
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: TahoeBlue on November 25, 2015, 11:00:11 am
Russia Says Turkey's Attack On Jet Was "Planned Provocation" As Ankara Moves Tanks Near Syrian Border

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/russia-says-turkeys-attack-jet-was-planned-provocation-ankara-moves-tanks-near-syria (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/russia-says-turkeys-attack-jet-was-planned-provocation-ankara-moves-tanks-near-syria)

yep:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12015465/Turkey-shoots-down-Russia-jet-live.html

Turkey shooting down plane was 'planned provocation' says Russia, as rescued pilot claims he had no warning - latest
Russian and Syrian special forces free second pilot of a Russian warplane shot down by Turkey, says defence minister
By Isabelle Fraser

4:48PM GMT 25 Nov 2015
This page will automatically update every 90 secondsOn Off

• Russian foreign minister: downing of jet was 'planned provocation'
• One pilot killed, another rescued who says there was no warning
• Russian rescue helicopter 'hit by Syrian rebels'
• Who are the Turkmen reported to have killed the pilots?
• What's happened so far?

Latest
16:06
Reports of aid trucks hit by air strike in Syria

Footage filmed at a crossing on the Syrian side of the border with Turkey's southern province of Kilis showed trucks burning on Wednesday after what aid workers said was an apparent air strike.

The head of the rebel-run border crossing in the same area said separately that air strikes hit a garage for commercial trailers, killing three people.

"Our teams helped to extinguish the fire... The trucks do not belong to us and there is no information on who bombed them," Mustafa Ozbek, an Istanbul-based official from the Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH), told Reuters.

The aid worker who filmed the aftermath initially said it appeared aid trucks had been targeted.

        IHH's civil defense teams are on the ground after Russian warplanes hit an aid truck in Azaz, #Syria. pic.twitter.com/gUfymNNxOU
        — Humanitarian Relief (@IHHen) November 25, 2015

    IHH is a government-linked aid organisation active in the Turkish/Syrian border area.

15:18
Erdogan and Hollande talk

    LATEST - President Erdo?an talks with French counterpart Hollande on phone regarding downed jet, both say 'no need to increase the tension'
    — DAILY SABAH (@DailySabah) November 25, 2015

14:36
Rescued Russian airman claims there were no warnings from Turkey

A Russian airman who has survived the downing of his warplane says Turkish jets did not issue any visual or radio warnings.

Rescued navigator Konstantin MurakhtinRescued navigator Konstantin Murakhtin

Captain Konstantin Murakhtin said that he couldn't possibly have flown over into Turkish airspace because the crew knew the region "like the back of their hand".

Mr Muravkin was rescued early this morning by Russian and Syrian commandoes and was speaking in televised comments from the Russian Hemeimeem air base in Syria.

    Surviving SU-24 navigator Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin talking to Russian press (RT's english voice over) https://t.co/hRiyDscNvK
    — Roland Oliphant (@RolandOliphant) November 25, 2015

14:30
Russia hitting Turkey where it hurts

Russian news agency RIA Novosti reports that Russian deputies have submitted a bill to hold to account anyone who denies the Armenian genocide.

This is rather unsubtle dig to Turkey - who deny that the 1915 massacres constitute a genocide. It is believed this lasted until 1917 and led to 1.5 million Armenians killed - a figure Turkey disputes, putting the figure at 300,000 to 600,000.

In total, 18 countries accept the massacres as genocide, including Germany, Greece, and France.

14:15
Russia urges citizens to stay away from Turkey

The great Russian tourist embargo appears to have begun, writes Roland Oliphant.

The Russian association of tour operators says several of the biggest travel firms in the country, including Pegas Turistik, Coral Travel, and Biblio Globus - major names on the market here - have stopped selling trips to Turkish resorts.

The Russian government hasn't expressly banned companies from selling Turkish holidays, but the has advised Russian citizens to stay away for safety reasons. About four million Russian tourists visit Turkey every year, making it one of the most popular destinations after Egypt.

13:03
Protesters hurl eggs and stones at Moscow's Turkish embassy


Protesters have hurled eggs and stones at the Turkish embassy in Moscow.

Windows at the embassy's compound were shattered and eggs pelted against the walls on Wednesday after a protest there went sour. Police cleared the area and and made some arrests shortly after the protest began.

    Young men with LDPR flags through (imported?) eggs at turkish consulate, moscow. pic.twitter.com/bynJYoHKN4
    — Christian Esch (@Moskwitsch) November 25, 2015

    Stones, bottles, eggs. Broken glass in front of #Turkish #embassy in #Moscow pic.twitter.com/uCgRSiKR4h
    — Bernd Grossheim (@bgmosk) November 25, 2015

The activists broke several windows at the Turkish embassy as Moscow police urged them to stop the protest but did not intervene, an AFP photographer reported from the scene.

Some chanted slurs against Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, while one of the placards read: "Turkey you will remain without gas."

12:56
Russian foreign minister backs Hollande's bid to close Turkey-Syria border


Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Wednesday backed a proposal by French leader Francois Hollande to close off the Syria-Turkey border to prevent the flow of fighters crossing the frontier.

"I think this is a good proposal and that tomorrow President Hollande will talk to us in greater detail about it. We would be ready to seriously consider the necessary measures for this," Lavrov told journalists ahead of Hollande's visit to Moscow on Thursday.

12:47
Tensions ramped up - but what does it mean?

Our Middle East reporter Louisa Loveluck has been analysing the war of words.

Quote Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, has ramped up tensions with Turkey this morning by describing the downing of the Su-24 as a “planned provocation” that will case Moscow to “seriously reassess” its relationship with Ankara.

So far, the war of words has yielded few serious consequences for Turkey, mostly because Russia has too much to lose. The two countries are important trading partners and it would be damaging to shake those ties at a time when both economies are on the rocks.

And despite being at odds over the future of Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, cooperation between Russia and Turkey is vital if a political solution to the Syria’s civil war is to be reached.

Before yesterday’s diplomatic clash, there had been rumours that Russia was willing to back a ceasefire, viewing it as an opportune time to pull much of its military force out of Syria. This may well now have changed.

12:38
Attack on Turkish Efes brewery in Russia

Russian news agency Interfax reports that an Efes brewery, owned by a Turkish company, was attacked last night in Ulyanovsk, Russia.

The unidentified attackers took the Turkish flag down and threw eggs at itThe unidentified attackers took the Turkish flag down and threw eggs at it  Photo: Lifenews.ru

They removed the Turkish flag, pelting it with eggs, and raising a Russian flag there instead.

They also tried to break down the door to the building, and failed, as well as writing insulting messages on the pavement outside to the Turkish president.

The unidentified attackers took the Turkish flag down and threw eggs at itThe unidentified attackers took the Turkish flag down and threw eggs at it  Photo: Lifenews.ru

12:22
How to decode the Russians

"Provocation" is one of the most important words in the Russian diplomatic lexicon, explains Roland Oliphant.

It can be used in a straightforward sense to accuse another country of a pre-meditated aggressive act to provoke a response, but it more usually implies something else - that the incident in question was staged by another power in order to frame Russia or one of its allies.

In short, it is an accusation of premeditation, implies a certain degree of hostile conspiracy, and wholly places the blame on the other party. It saw a lot of use during the crisis in Ukraine.

In this context, Sergei Lavrov appears to be saying that Turkey either had ordered its pilots to shoot down a Russian aircraft as soon as there was scrap of pretext for doing so (if the SU-24 did indeed stray into Turkish airspace), or that, even more nefariously, it deliberately fabricated the claim of an airspace violation to justify a pre-planned shoot down.

At one level, this is simply an expression of outrage that any government would make if someone shot down one of its aircraft.

It's also a choice of words that plays into the narrative, voiced by Vladimir Putin yesterday, that Turkey "stabbed Russia in the back" for attacking its terrorist clients Isil.

But Mr Lavrov has also implied that America may bear some responsibility, since Turkey is a Nato ally flying US-built planes with US-built weapons. There's a hint - but not quite an open accusation - that Washington and Nato may have had a hand in this.

12:16
Turkey and Russia to meet... or will they?

Turkey's Foreign Ministry says the foreign ministers of Turkey and Russia have agreed to meet for talks over the downing of a Russian warplane. Russia's foreign minister, however, said that a meeting hadn't been confirmed.

Turkish Foreign Ministry spokesman Tanju Bilgic said in a written statement that Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu and Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov agreed to a meeting "in the coming days," during a telephone conversation.

The two agreed to share details on the incident through "diplomatic and military channels."

But Lavrov said during a live TV interview that they had no concrete plans for a meeting. Lavrov said that he suggested that he and Cavusoglu could meet on the sidelines of some international event, but didn't say there is any such plan.

11:53
Russian foreign minister: downing of jet was 'planned provocation'

Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, is giving a televised briefing on Russia's response to the shoot down, writes Roland Oliphant.

He has described Turkey's shoot down of a Russian jet as "planned provocation" and says Russia will "seriously reassess" relations with Ankara. But he seems to have ruled out military retaliation, saying Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

Interestingly, he's also hinted at American culpability in the incident, saying the missile used was American made and pointing out Turkey is meant to be a member of the US-led coalition against Isil - and thus nominally subject to the "deconfliction" agreement the Pentagon and Russian military chiefs negotiated to avoid clashes in the air over Syria.

11:34
What the Turkish papers say

Among some pro-government newspapers, editorials support the actions of the Turkish government but among some commentators in Turkey, there is concern for Russia-Turkey relations, writes Raziye Akkoc.

One writer in Hurriyet Daily News, an English-language newspaper in Turkey, fears that if tension is not defused, then Syria could "transform into a battlefield where the Turkish and Russian militaries will even more frequently confront each other".

Serkan Demirtas, a Turkish journalist, suggests relations could also take a while to return to normal and an expected visit in the near future by Mr Erdogan to Moscow could be in danger of cancellation. Of course, this is not surprising since the Russian foreign minister cancelled his visit for today on Tuesday afternoon.

There is no doubt among many within the establishment, a breakdown in relations is not wanted since Demirtas highlights how the two countries have a "unique relationship" and makes much of Turkey and Russia's trade ties. He says that bilateral trade volume is nearly $35 billion (£23 billion).

This is perhaps why Turkey is keen to stress publicly that their target was not a country, despite Mr Davutoglu's warnings about attacks on Turkmen mentioned earlier.

Daily Sabah, a pro-ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) newspaper, has an an editorial with the provocative headline: "Peril posed by Putin in Mideast runs parallel to Daesh," using the Arabic acronym for Isil.

The editorial condemns Russia's actions in Ukraine and Crimea, saying it had a "total disregard of the international system".

The newspaper then adds that Russia's "repeated violations of the airspaces of Nato member countries places it at an international threat level at least equal to that of Daesh in the eyes of the West". The piece goes on to claim that Russia's actions are "no different" to Isil.

11:11
Putin: we cannot rule out other incidents in Turkey

Vladimir Putin has elaborated on the Russian foreign ministry's advice for Russians to avoid visiting Turkey, writes Roland Oliphant.

"After what happened yesterday, we cannot rule out other incidents, and if they occur one way or another we will have to react. And our citizens in Turkey, of course, could be exposed to considerable danger, and the foreign ministry is obliged to talk about that," he said.

Yesterday Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, advised Russians against holidaying in Turkey because the terrorist threat was similar to that in Egypt, where a Russian airliner was attacked by terrorists last month.

About four million Russians visit Turkey every year, so if Russians stop visiting it could have a big impact on the country's tourism economy. Some kind of limit on tourist travel - possibly in the form of flight suspension or forbidding travel firms from selling package tours to Turkey - appears to be one retaliatory measure Russia is considering.

11:00
Turkish PM: attacks on Turkmens cannot be carried out on pretext of hitting Isil

The Turkish prime minister has warned Russia that attacks on the Turkmen minority could not be justified using the pretext of fighting Isil, writes Raziye Akkoc.

Ahmet Davutoglu was speaking today and said: "No one can legitimise attacks on Turkmens in Syria using the pretext of fighting Daesh," using the Arabic acronym for the extremist group.

He added that he personally gave the orders to the Turkish general chief of staff about shooting down jets which intruded into its airspace.

In his same speech, he criticised the way Turkey was described as a dictatorship but when France acted in a high-handed manner, it was not given the same criticisms.

"After Paris attacks, France prohibited protests. If Turkey had done so, people would say there's ‘dictatorship’ in Turkey."

But here Mr Davutoglu is making wild claims. France had just seen 130 of its citizens killed when it declared a state of emergency while in Turkey, people can be taken to court for "insulting the president" or sharing images critical of Mr Erdogan.

10:41
Russia to continue launching airstrikes

Despite yesterday's furore, Russia has vowed this morning that it will continue to launch airstrikes along the Turkish border, writes Louisa Loveluck.

"We would like for the terrorists and militants to keep further away from the Turkish border, but unfortunately they tend to be situated on the Syrian territory close to the Turkish border," said Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov. "(Russia's) operations will continue without doubt."

Moscow's initial military intervention was aimed at shoring up regime defences in Syria's far north-west - where the Russian plane was shot down yesterday - and the battle there remains crucial for the Assad regime's survival.

09:54
Russia sending hi-tech air defence system

Sergei Shoigu has announced the deployment of Russia's most advanced anti-aircraft missile - the S-400 - to Syria in the wake of the Tuesday's shoot down, writes Roland Oliphant.

The S-400 first came into service in 2007. It is the next generation of the S-300, a particularly effective air defence missile system that Russia periodically offers to sell to Iran as a way of alarming Israel and keeping the Iranians sweet.

With a maximum range of 400 kilometres (about 250 miles), an S400 system based at Russia's Khmeimim airbase near Latakia would easily cover the area where Turkish jets shot down a Russian SU-24 on Tuesday, and would even potentially threaten Turkish aircraft on the other side of the border.

    Countermeasures: fighter escorts for bombers, missile cruiser Moskva off Latakia, & S-400 missiles (Russia's newest SAMs) deployed to Syria.
    — Roland Oliphant (@RolandOliphant) November 25, 2015

The defence ministry has already announced other counter measures, including fighter escorts for bombing missions, and the deployment of the missile cruiser Moskva, which carries S-300s, to an air defence role in coastal waters of Latakia region. The defence ministry said on Tuesday night that the ship had been ordered to engage "any target that appears to be a threat."

The Moskva has been cruising the eastern Mediterranean with a Russian flotilla for several weeks, and interceptor fighter jets - aircraft designed to engage other planes rather than bomb ground targets - were deployed along with bombers when Russian began its intervention two months ago, precisely to deter Turkish or other country's airforces from interfering with Russian operations.

Russian S-400 Triumf missile carrier are seen on Tverskaya street during the parade rehearsal 7 May 2014Russian S-400 Triumf missile carrier are seen on Tverskaya street during the parade rehearsal  Photo: Rex

Turkey ignored that implicit deterrent, so the latest announcements seem intended to make it explicit - and to make clear Russia won't think twice about getting even should a Turkish jet give them the chance.

Vladimir Putin today backed a recommendation from the foreign ministry for Russians not to visit Turkey.

"After such tragic events like the destruction of our plane and the death of our pilot, this is a necessary measure," Putin said in televised comments.

09:41
Putin decorates pilot and rescuers for bravery

Vladimir Putin has ordered the surviving pilot and his rescuers to be decorated for bravery, writes Roland Oliphant.

"He has been rescued, I understand he us already back at base, at the aerodrome. He and all those who participated in this operation, including the rescue mission, will receive state awards. The defence ministry proposed this," Mr Putin told reporters.

Lt. Col Oleg Peshov, the dead pilot, has been posthumously named a Hero of Russia, the country's highest military award.

His navigator, Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin, has been awarded the Order of Courage. Capt. Murakhtin was rescued last night and is said to be alive and well.

Alexander Pozynich, the marine killed during the rescue operation, has been posthumously award the Order of Courage.

09:10
Russian pilot rescued overnight by special forces

The second pilot from the Russian SU-24 jet shot down by a Turkish fighter is alive and has been rescued by Russian forces in an overnight special operation, the defence minister has said.

"The operation was successful. The pilot is already at our base. He is alive and well," said Sergei Shoigu, the Russian defence minister, in comments carried by the TASS news agency.

"I want to thank all our guys, who worked at great risk throughout the night," he said.

"I have informed the commander in chief [Vladimir Putin] about the success of the operation. He asked me to pass on his personal thanks to everyone involved in this mission."

08:58
Merkel: shooting down has complicated Syria situation

The shooting down of a Russian warplane by Turkey has complicated the process of finding a political solution in Syria and everything must be done to avoid a further escalation, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Wednesday.

"The situation has been aggravated by the shooting down of a Russian plane by Turkey," Merkel said in a speech in the lower house of parliament, in reference to the situation in Syria.

"We need to do everything to avoid an escalation," she added. "Of course every country has a right to defend its territory but on the other hand we know how tense the situation is in Syria and in the surrounding area. I spoke yesterday with the Turkish prime minister and asked him to do everything to de-escalate the situation."

08:44
Turkey's front pages this morning

    How TR press covered plane: Hurriyet: Biggest crisis Aksam: Our patience was tested Cumhuriyet: On the verge of war pic.twitter.com/Wp44smkNxU
    — Raziye Akkoc (@RazAkkoc) November 25, 2015

    Bugun: Putin stretched Gunes: The necessary was done HaberTurk: Patience's limit Milat: We downed it pic.twitter.com/o3UhQmgG7M
    — Raziye Akkoc (@RazAkkoc) November 25, 2015

08:35
Erdogan: we do not want escalation

Erdogan says Turkey does not want escalation with Russia over downed plane, adding: "we are only defending out own security and the rights of our brothers".

He also said that parts of the downed plane landed inside Turkey, injuring two Turkish citizens.

08:24
Russia want a joint staff of France, US and Turkey vs. Isil

Russia would be prepared to "create a joint staff" to fight the Islamic State (Isil) in which Moscow would work with France, the United States and even Turkey, the Russian ambassador to France said Wednesday.

"We are prepared to... plan strikes on Daesh (Isil) positions together and create a joint staff with France, the US, with all the countries who want to be in this coalition," said Alexander Orlov," adding: "If the Turks want to be in at as well, they are welcome" despite tensions after Turkey downed a Russian military jet.

07:57
One of pilots is alive, taken to Russian base

One of the two Russian pilots who ejected from a jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday has been picked up by the Syrian army and is being taken to Russia's base there, Russia's ambassador to France said on Wednesday.

"One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and killed in a savage way on the ground by the jihadists in the area and the other managed to escape and, according to the latest information, has been picked up by the Syrian army and should be going back to the Russian airforce base," ambassador Alexandre Orlov told Europe 1 radio. The other pilot was killed.

07:00
US official: Russian jet was not in Turkish airspace when it was hit

The aircraft crashed in the Kizildag region of Turkey's Hatay province  Photo: Anadolu Agency/Getty Images

The United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a US official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The official said that assessment was based on detection of the heat signature of the jet.

Turkey's military said the fighter was shot down by two of its F-16s after it violated Turkish airspace. A number of accounts suggest the SU-24 was in Turkish territory for 17 seconds before it was attacked, crashing once it had crossed back into Syria.

At least one of its pilots, and possibly both, were shot dead by rebels as they parachuted to safety, and a Russian marine died when his rescue helicopter was hit by a rebel, US-supplied anti-tank missile.

Turkish officials said the jet had ignored ten warnings.

Moscow bitterly criticised Turkey for its action against the warplane, which it insisted was in Syrian airspace, and claimed that one of the two pilots who ejected from the craft was killed by gunfire from the ground as he descended.

Vladirmir Putin said: “Today’s loss was a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorists. Our pilots and our aircraft never threatened the territory of Turkey. That much is obvious."

He accused Turkey of backing Isil and trying to drag Nato into the conflict alongside Islamist extremists.

Jens Stoltenberg, Nato secretary general, said the military alliance stood by Turkey after the incident, but echoed appeals for calm from other world leaders as fears grow of clashes between coalition and Russian planes in the skies over Syria.

"We stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our nato ally, Turkey," said Mr Stoltenberg after an emergency meeting of all 28 members requested by Ankara.

04:47
Was shooting justified?

    At first, I thought Turkey was justified, but reckless. Now I'm not even sure that attacking the Russian plane can be justified.
    — Max Abrahms
(@MaxAbrahms) November 25, 2015

There has been something of a hardening of opinion against Turkey in the past couple of hours as it emerged just how rapidly the whole episode played out (if reports of Russian jet being inside Turkish airspace for just 17 seconds are true).

03:46
'Russia had it coming'

Vladimir Putin has taken an increasingly aggressive stance
Photo: RIA NOVOSTI/REUTERS

Con Coughlin argues that Russia only has itself to blame having ignored countless warnings about its increasingly belligerent stance. Vladimir Putin seemed to convince himself that Nato simply wasn't serious about confronting his forces.

Opinion The Russian president recently made this view known when close aides warned him of Britain’s views on Russia. They told him that, when Britain outlined its National Security Strategy as part of the 2015 defence review, it would argue that, after Islamic State (Isil), Russia posed the greatest threat to global peace. But rather than being alarmed that his country was being cast in the same mould as the barbaric followers of Isil, Mr Putin simply shrugged. “Don’t worry,” he reassured his aides. “The British aren’t serious.”

03:16
Su-24 v F-16

There are dark corners of the Internet where Russian nationalists will argue the toss with Americans about whether the Su-24 is better than an F-16. I guess that argument was resolved today.

02:30
Russia's Syrian deployment

A Russian Sukhoi Su-24 attack aircraftA Russian Sukhoi Su-24 attack aircraft  Photo: Reuters

The jet that was shot down was a Sukhoi 24, one of about 30 Russian planes flying raids over Syria. Flying from Khmeimim, in Latakia province, there are thought to be a dozen Su-25s and Su-24s, along with a handful of Su-30s and Su-34s.

01:49
SU-24 'ventured a mile inside Turkey'

    Turkey's statement: Claims Russia violated airspace for just "17 seconds" with very slow 243 miles/hour jet. pic.twitter.com/knhdy0RWIA
    — WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) November 24, 2015

So Wikileaks has apparently got hold of a statement written by Turkey, confirming Russian plane was in its airspace for only 17 seconds before it was attacked. Again it says it crashed once back on the Syrian side of the border. If true, it suggests the Russian SU-24 penetrated only a little more than a mile into Turkey.

Details of the letter correspond with what the New York Times was told earlier, but the addressing on it seems upside down. Or is that how all UN letters are set up, with the recipient at the foot?

01:30
So what now?

If these latest details from Reuters are correct, then it changes things quite a bit. However, there's plenty we still don't know. What weapons systems were involved, for example? Were the planes visible to each other? The Russian jet spent a short period of time in Turkish airspace. So it is entirely possible that weapons were engaged before the jet crossed back into Syria, with no time for missiles to be destroyed, for example.

It will be a while before we have answers to these kinds of questions.

    @robcrilly It will be interesting to see what weapon system they used. Almost all air to air is beyond visual range engagements.
    — Matt Bush (@PhotoJouMATT) November 25, 2015

01:06
Heat signature suggests 'jet was hit inside Syria'

More breaking from Reuters. They are now saying that it was hit inside Syria - not just exploded:

The United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a US official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The official said that assessment was based on detection of the heat signature of the jet.

01:00
US 'believes jet exploded in Syrian airspace'

    BREAKING: U.S. believes Russian jet exploded in Syrian airspace: official
    — Reuters Top News (@Reuters) November 25, 2015

Reuters is alerting that US believes that the Russian jet exploded in Syrian airspace, possibly contradicting that last point. More shortly.

(I've corrected the wording to be more precise. Possible it was hit inside Syrian airspace.)
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: TahoeBlue on November 25, 2015, 12:27:46 pm
I've got to Tell you I do have sympathy for Airmen who were shot down in an unprovoked attack by supposed "friendlies"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3333117/Downed-Russian-pilot-picked-Syrian-army-envoy.html
Putin takes his revenge: Russia unleashes heavy bombardment on region held by Turkmen rebels who chanted 'Allahu Akbar' over the dead body of pilot shot down by Turkish F-16

Russia has retaliated against rebel forces who 'shot and killed' one of the pilots of the jet destroyed by Turkish army
One of the two pilots of Russian jet downed by Turkey was rescued in 12-hour operation and taken to Russian base
Pilot, identified as Cpt Konstantin Murahtin, and fallen co-pilot, Lt. Col. Oleg Peshkov, to be given state honours

Audio recording of warnings sent out by Turkey on open channels and confirmed by U.S. military are released
Putin called the incident a 'stab in the back by accomplices of terrorists' and accused Turkey of supporting ISIS
NATO chief called for 'diplomacy and de-escalation' after emergency meeting of member nations on Tuesday

By Sara Malm In London and Will Stewart In Moscow for MailOnline
Published: 02:46 EST, 25 November 2015  | Updated: 13:27 EST, 25 November 2015

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3333117/Downed-Russian-pilot-picked-Syrian-army-envoy.html#ixzz3sWte9yxO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 25, 2015, 12:33:40 pm


  THANKS FOR THE TIMELINE TAHOE---Reply #51.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 25, 2015, 01:46:27 pm
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/

  EXCERPTS FROM THE ARTICLE BELOW....

Western Media Fail to Condemn Turkish Aggression


Failure to condemn clear aggression shows support. Turkey’s act of war was clear and unambiguous - recklessness against Russia’s real war on terror, polar opposite America’s phony war, backing ISIS and other terrorist groups, not combatting them.


New York Times editors cited the risk of “wider confrontation,” falsely calling Obama’s proxy aggression on Syria a “civil war.”

Saying Tuesday’s incident “adds to tensions between Ankara and Moscow, which support different factions in Syria, and threatens to worsen relations between Russia and Turkey’s NATO allies, which have been going downhill since Russia invaded Ukraine.”

Fact: Times editors lied, claiming “Russia invaded Ukraine,” the Big Lie they’ve repeated many times, never citing evidence because none exists - other than phony videos unrelated to conflict in Donbass.

Times editors: “The only winner in a confrontation between Russia and the West is the Islamic State.”

False! Moscow’s campaign continues neutralizing,  significantly weakening and destroying its forces, the goal being to prevent their spread to Central Asia and its own territory.
The Washington Post sided with NATO, saying it “faces (a) new Mideast crisis…” It lied claiming “Russia back(s) the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad (in contrast to) a US-led coalition conducting airstrikes against the Islamic State.”

Russia supports Syrian sovereignty and the right of its people alone to decide who’ll lead them, free from outside interference.

Neocon Wall Street Journal editors headlined “Turkey’s Warning Shot,” saying “Putin may be testing NATO’s resolve, and the Turks need US support.”

They repeated Big Lies blasted throughout Western media - claiming Russian aircraft entered Turkish airspace illegally and didn’t heed 10 warnings - failing to explain Moscow poses no threat to Turkey or any other nation, or say no evidence support’s Ankara’s claim about Russian aircraft entering its territory.

Journal editors ????? turned truth on its head, saying Tuesday’s incident “fits the Russian pattern of bombing enemies of the Assad regime except Islamic State - a useful reminder that Mr. Putin is not a fit partner in the coalition to fight ISIS.”

Then ludicrously asked “why Mr. Putin would risk provoking Turkey” - when no provocation occurred Tuesday or earlier. Absurdly saying Moscow’s alliance with Iran and its Shiite Muslim proxies in Damascus and Beirut, who see themselves as competing with the Sunni Turks for regional dominance,” may explain what happened - along with Putin “testing NATO cohesion.”

“If Russia continues to prick Turkey and NATO fails to support Ankara, it will expose the hollowness of NATO’s Article 5 collective-defense obligations.” Are Journal editors urging WW III?
Larson,  It is so obvious these elitist muckers want a power vacum in Syria..
Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, ETC....ETC..
 The MSM will insist this was Russia's fault...WTM..Don't ya get bone tired of these talking heads reading their scripts BS ,lying rat bastards .
 
               
               
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: lee51 on November 25, 2015, 01:48:56 pm
Just tweeted:

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l  · 37 minutes ago 
ERDOGAN ORDERS FULL COMBAT ALERT FOR TURKISH FORCES, TANKS BEING DEPLOYED AT SYRIAN BORDER

My comments: I don't think the Turks would do this without knowing they have NATO backup.  This does not look good.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 25, 2015, 02:06:56 pm


... just sayin'

Shanghai Cooperation Organisation = China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia,
Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan ... India and Pakistan by 2016... a Eurasian political,
economic  and military organisation which was founded in 2001


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 25, 2015, 02:12:01 pm
Just tweeted:

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l  · 37 minutes ago 
ERDOGAN ORDERS FULL COMBAT ALERT FOR TURKISH FORCES, TANKS BEING DEPLOYED AT SYRIAN BORDER

My comments: I don't think the Turks would do this without knowing they have NATO backup.  This does not look good.
             NATO has allready declared they are with Turkey 100%, so says the MSM talking heads.
    NATO rejects Russia explanation on Turkish air space ...
www.reuters.com/.../us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKC...
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 25, 2015, 02:17:41 pm
^^^

... let's all move to Russia.   :P


Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Sasha on November 25, 2015, 03:02:50 pm
Radar Track Shows Russia Jet's Path Over Turkish Territory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzHg6I0CmyU&feature=share)
Published on Nov 24, 2015

Gen. Tom McInerney, former vice Chief of Staff of the Air Force, provides analysis, says map shows Turkey was 'overly aggressive' in shooting down aircraft.

"I think the Turks made a very bad mistake and very poor judgment.... Look, I was a NORAD commander in Alaska.  And I probably, in my four-and-a-half years, had more [Tupolev Tu-95] Bear penetrations into our air defense identification zone and we would never do anything like that."
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 25, 2015, 05:46:34 pm
Sasha.
  The turk gov states they warned the Russian jet 10 times, that takes a minute or so even if they did.
  The latest report, at max the Russian bomber spent 17 seconds over Turkey air space, if in fact they were even on the border crossing..
  Russian jet was in Turkish airspace for just 17 seconds ...
www.telegraph.co.uk › ... › Middle East › Syria - - The Russian SU-24 plane was over the Hatay region of Turkey for about 17 seconds when it was struck, according to one diplomat who ...
  They won't succeed in sucking Putin into their game.

Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Sasha on November 25, 2015, 07:03:39 pm
I don't think Putin will either, Chris.  And you're probably right about the 10 warnings taking more time than was allowed too.  What warning is accompanied by a killshot?  That missile had a travel time too - some portion of that 17 seconds (or fewer).

The story coming out of Turkish officials is so indefensible on its face, that they've even begun to mod and massage it now.

CNN Turkey is serving this tenderized tripe:

CNN Türk ENG @CNNTURK_ENG (https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/669596443850776577)   11:20 AM - 25 Nov 2015
Turkish military told Russian counterparts they did not know the nationality of the jet at time of warning. #Russia

This is a farcical defense, unless Turkey is willing to simultaneously admit that they've improperly maintaining their newish, fancy-pants fourth generation++++ (+++ etc...) F16 avionics upgrades, and the IFF systems in particular.  Turkish publication, Today's Zaman, Sept 13, 2011 put out an interesting report in this regard,

Report: Israel no longer ‘friend’ for Turkey’s F-16s, warships (http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_report-israel-no-longer-friend-for-turkeys-f-16s-warships_256618.html)

Turkey's military Electronics Industry (ASELSAN) has produced a new identification friend or foe (IFF) system for Turkish jet fighters, warships and submarines and the new software, contrary to the older, US-made version, does not automatically identify Israeli planes and ships as friends, a news report said on Tuesday.

The new IFF has already been installed in Turkish F-16s and is expected to be installed in all Navy ships and submarines, the report, published in Turkish daily Star, said. It will be fully operational when it is installed in all military planes, warships and submarines.

The F-16 jet fighters, purchased from the US, came with pre-installed IFF software that automatically identifies Israeli fighters and warships as friends, disabling Turkish F-16s from targeting Israeli planes or ships. ASELSAN-made IFF will allow Turkish military commanders to identify friends and foes on the basis of national considerations.


Janes, just earlier this year in April, had an update to the upgrade story,

Turkey completes major F-16 upgrade programme (http://www.janes.com/article/50604/turkey-completes-major-f-16-upgrade-programme)

The Turkish Air Force received its final upgraded Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon on 10 April during a ceremony at Turkish Aerospace Industries' (TAI's) facility in Ankara.

In total, 163 Turkish F-16 fighter aircraft were upgraded under the Peace Onyx III (PO-III) programme at a cost of about USD1.1 billion.

PO-III included the upgrade of all Turkey's Block 40 and Block 50 F-16s to a standard similar to the United States Air Force's Common Configuration Implementation Program (CCIP) standard.

This included the installation of the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-68(V)9 multimode radar; modifications to enable the carriage of a wider weapons fit (including the AIM-9X Sidewinder air-to-air missile); Link 16 datalink; colour cockpit displays and recorders; the Joint-Helmet-Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) and AN/ANVS-9 night-vision goggles; identification friend-or-foe (IFF) systems; an integrated navigation and electronic warfare system; and new core-avionics processors.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 25, 2015, 10:37:13 pm
http://www.rense.com/

  A CHRISTMAS SHOPPING TIP FROM VLADIMIR PUTIN...

  Borrowed from www.rense.com


(http://www.rense.com/1.mpicons/noturkeyleft.jpg)
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on November 26, 2015, 07:21:09 am
http://regnum.ru/news/polit/2021108.html some opinion / u have to use translator ;)

imho prompt made it more or less readable. another problem is military/technical  abbreviations...
http://www.online-translator.com/siteTranslation/autolink/?direction=ae&template=General&sourceURL=http://www.online-translator.com/

<...> How everything occurred?
The Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS U.S. Air Force plane flew up on November 24 from Prevez's air base in Greece. The second E-3A of the Air Force of Saudi Arabia flew up from air base of Riyadh. Both planes carried out one general task — determination of exact location of the VKS(air-space military forces) planes of Russia. They also chose  "victim".
The American E-3A had to define an operating mode of RLS   control of the Su-24M2 plane weapon (radar of su weapon managment system), check, whether there is it in a condition of search or already executed capture and accompanies the purpose, developing data for firing. It is known that AWACS can operate actions of aircraft in fight and transfer BREO and PNK of planes information for conducting combat operations.
 .<...>
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: decemberfellow on November 26, 2015, 08:09:17 am
http://www.rense.com/

  A CHRISTMAS SHOPPING TIP FROM VLADIMIR PUTIN...

  Borrowed from www.rense.com


(http://www.rense.com/1.mpicons/noturkeyleft.jpg)


First thought funny second thought freightful.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 26, 2015, 09:16:55 am

First thought funny second thought frightful.

  Well, I don't think he is going to really attack Turkey.  He is going to hurt them where it hurts----their wallets. Putin knows an attack would REALLY START WW3.  It's the jerks in DC, and England, and Israel that we have to worry about.  They are the real nut cases.
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-says-no-apologies-turkey-over-downed-warplane-110545924.html

Russia targets Turkish economy over downed plane
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: pac522 on November 26, 2015, 10:43:49 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUpRr2MXIAEPvQ4.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: lee51 on November 26, 2015, 11:59:06 am
BREAKING UPDATE 6:56 AM EST - 26 November 2015 -- Russian Air Force planes have just attacked and destroyed a convoy of Turkish vehicles . . . inside Syria .    Turkey claims the trucks were a "relief convoy" calls the attack "an act of war."

https://www.superstation95.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=579:schlamstonedolan&Itemid=704

UPDATE 6:56 AM Eastern Standard Time -- 26 November 2015 -----  Russian Air Forces have attacked a convoy of Turkish trucks inside Syria.  Turkey reports that at least seven Turks are dead, ten or more injured.  Turkey also claims the convoy was a "relief convoy" and says Russia has now committed "an act of war."   Photos from the attack are now coming in. . . first below:

More info at link above.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: poncho on November 26, 2015, 12:40:59 pm
BREAKING UPDATE 6:56 AM EST - 26 November 2015 -- Russian Air Force planes have just attacked and destroyed a convoy of Turkish vehicles . . . inside Syria .    Turkey claims the trucks were a "relief convoy" calls the attack "an act of war."

https://www.superstation95.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=579:schlamstonedolan&Itemid=704

UPDATE 6:56 AM Eastern Standard Time -- 26 November 2015 -----  Russian Air Forces have attacked a convoy of Turkish trucks inside Syria.  Turkey reports that at least seven Turks are dead, ten or more injured.  Turkey also claims the convoy was a "relief convoy" and says Russia has now committed "an act of war."   Photos from the attack are now coming in. . . first below:

More info at link above.

God I hope that is some disinfo...

Otherwise I may be wrong, this could be the start of the big one.

(EDIT:)
After looking at this from some more news sources, it's not disinfo.
But it also not as bad as I first thought.  It will fan the flames more.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 26, 2015, 12:47:16 pm
^^^

... pictures.

http://www.sott.net/article/307237-Russia-destroys-Turkish-truck-convoy-headed-for-Syrian-militants-Erdogan-silent
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Stan on November 26, 2015, 01:26:14 pm
It's hardly an act of war considering they clearly violated a sovereign nation's territory with the goal of arming anti-government militants. If the Turks think they were justified in shooting down and killing Russians pilots under extremely dubious circumstances then Russia was 1,000,000% justified in taking out this convoy.

Not that I endorse it either way. They just have no legitimate complaints under the rules they themselves are playing by.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 26, 2015, 01:36:42 pm
Just mentioning:     Historical? Money trails .     

US May Increase The $26 Billion Promised To Turkey - Rense
www.rense.com/general35/usmay.htm.

?
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 26, 2015, 03:36:09 pm
Do you believe this guy has the gall to say this..........?
         Can ya smell the rats.


Istanbul (AFP) - President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Thursday that Turkey would have acted differently if it had known a warplane its forces downed on the Syrian border was Russian.

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Erdogan, Obama agree on need to reduce tensions after Russian plane downed: Ankara AFP
"If we had known if it was a Russian plane maybe we would have warned it differently," Erdogan told France 24 television.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Qster on November 26, 2015, 06:33:24 pm
Do you believe this guy has the gall to say this..........?
         Can ya smell the rats.


Istanbul (AFP) - President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Thursday that Turkey would have acted differently if it had known a warplane its forces downed on the Syrian border was Russian.

Mad dog Erdogan is starting to feel the heat and backtracking. He's friendless in this situation; Putin's going to hurt him bad, and take his time about it.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 26, 2015, 06:42:49 pm
Qster... Yes, he is a sell out, shi***tbag, as well as his crew and the minions of sheep dipped loons and mercs.
             
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on November 26, 2015, 06:48:56 pm
"Sultan" R. Erdogan should hit where it hurts the most. I guess in Moscow know this as they know fullscale
war leads to the WW3.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 26, 2015, 07:09:51 pm
 Putin was smooth, his reaction was controlled. *He did slip in the US armed forces were aware of this jets flight path*. Though he didn't overreact, he stated this as if was simply a phrase, a unemotional sentence  , when in effect it was much, much- more.
  Just word picking.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: pac522 on November 26, 2015, 08:47:31 pm
Do you believe this guy has the gall to say this..........?
         Can ya smell the rats.


Istanbul (AFP) - President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Thursday that Turkey would have acted differently if it had known a warplane its forces downed on the Syrian border was Russian.

Related Stories

Erdogan denies Turkey buys any oil from Islamic State AFP
Activists hurl stones, eggs at Turkish embassy in Moscow AFP
Turkish military says did not know downed jet was Russian AFP
Erdogan says Turkey does not want escalation with Russia AFP
Erdogan, Obama agree on need to reduce tensions after Russian plane downed: Ankara AFP
"If we had known if it was a Russian plane maybe we would have warned it differently," Erdogan told France 24 television.

This is what we call here, down in south Louisiana...Crawfishin'.

If anyone doesn't know, crawfish swim backwards.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on November 26, 2015, 09:26:09 pm
(http://s017.radikal.ru/i409/1511/49/7eb820a30cf8.jpg)

2012 turkey was filled with 'britain' oil (Iran, RF, Kazahstan) 52% ('controlling stake')
2014 turkey was filled with 'american oil' (Iraq, Saudis, Turkey own production) 50% (will add +1%  For the sake of argument )
 

Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on November 26, 2015, 09:55:35 pm
+and 'Britain' gas (RF, Iran, Azerbaijan) = 86%

so author's 'obvious conclusion' is that u cannot be that dependent on Bresources (mainly gas) but act in accordance with A
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on November 27, 2015, 08:17:37 am
(http://i.imgur.com/WO65mkn.png)(http://)
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 27, 2015, 08:24:18 am
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/

  more at the link....


Rogue State Turkey

by Stephen Lendman


Turkey’s aggression against Russia complicit with Washington remains foremost on my mind - two rogue states posing major threats to world peace. Their actions speak for themselves.

Ergodan would never attack Russia on his own. Washington likely planned and orchestrated what happened. He was the triggerman, a fascist dictator destabilizing the region along with destroying fundamental freedoms at home. More on his homeland repression below.

Most important is his alliance with US-dominated NATO - a rogue killing machine threatening world peace, waging one war after another, raging in multiple theaters, notably in Iraq and Syria.

Southeastern Turkey borders the Syrian Republic, Iraq and Iran. Erdogan wants part of northern Syria incorporated into Turkey - a hoped for land grab on the pretext of establishing a safe zone for nonexistent “moderate” rebels.

Thousands of heavily armed Turkish troops are massed on Syria’s border. Invasion may follow if Washington OKs it after Erdogan replaced Chief of General Staff General Necdet Ozel with regime-supporting General Hulusi Akar.


Downing Russia’s aircraft ups the stakes for greater war, ruining chances for diplomatic conflict resolution - Washington’s plan all along, Erdogan going along for his own self-interest, a rogue leader running Turkey despotically.


After Turkey downed Russia’s aircraft, Vladimir Putin blasted Erdogan, calling him an “accomplice of terrorists,” adding:

“IS has big money, hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars, from selling oil. In addition they are protected by the military of an entire nation.”

“One can understand why they are acting so boldly and blatantly. Why they kill people in such atrocious ways. Why they commit terrorist acts across the world…”


Turkey supplied and may continue supplying ISIS with toxic sarin gas to commit terrorist attacks, falsely blamed on Assad - including the notorious August 2013 Ghouta incident, killing and injuring hundreds of Syrian civilians in the Damascus suburb.

Evidence shows ISIS and other takfiri terrorists in Syria used chemical weapons numerous times before. US, Turkish and Saudi Arabian dirty hands were involved - Assad set up to be a fall guy irresponsibility.

No proof of Syrian involvement in chemical weapons use exists since Obama’s war began in March 2011. While ongoing, Assad destroyed his entire chemical weapons stockpile, working cooperatively with the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons - certified by OPCW. Phony claims about him retaining supplies persist.


Sarin gas enters Syria through Turkey. Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh said a former senior US intelligence official with current reliable contacts told him “Turkish government (elements) believed they could get Assad’s ’n-ts in a vice by dabbling with a sarin attack inside Syria…forcing Obama to make good on his red line threat.”

Erdogan is a megalomaniacal threat to global peace and stability, especially after recklessly downing Russia’s aircraft - an act of aggressive war by any standard, Washington’s dirty hands orchestrating things covertly behind the scenes.

Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 27, 2015, 08:28:44 am
http://www.globalresearch.ca/eu-politicians-blast-turkeys-links-to-isis-call-erdogans-policies-dangerous/5491834

  VIDEO AT THE LINK....

Illegal Oil Trade with Terrorists. EU Politicians Blast Turkey’s Links to ISIS. Erdogan’s Policies Are Insanely Dangerous

Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 27, 2015, 09:01:14 am

Turkey is trigger-happy, anxious to hurt Russia... because
Turkey is definitely on the ISIS/Crazy muslim side in
this struggle. I wonder if NATO would actually back
TURKEY in a shooting war w/RUSSIA ... or if they would
kick them out of NATO, the best course. I believe we will
face similar situations with other muslim countries
as this war unfolds.

Turkey must be removed from
NATO: US Army general

Thu Nov 26, 2015   7:21PM

"
... described Turkey as an internal threat to NATO,
who, “... will only cooperate when they have to and they
will get as much out of NATO as they can.”



Turkey’s downing of a Russian warplane over Syria has proven
that the country is a liability to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization
(NATO) and must be “ousted” from the Western military alliance,
says a retired US Army General.


The shooting down of a Russian aircraft near the Syrian border was in line with Ankara’s struggle to establish itself as a “dominant” power, retired US Army Major General Paul Vallely said Thursday.

Vallely said Turkey must be removed from NATO because it poses a “big and important issue” in many ways for other members.

“I think NATO, if they have any resolve, they would oust Turkey out of NATO because they are not cooperating against ISIL, they are not cooperating at all with some of the forces inside of Syria, and they want to see [Syrian President Bashar] Assad removed or replaced by another government,” the retired General told Russia's RT.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/26/439304/Russia-NATO-Turkey-Su24-Paul-Vallely
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 27, 2015, 04:16:57 pm
Holly's  quote.“I think NATO, if they have any resolve, they would oust Turkey out of NATO because they are not cooperating against ISIL, they are not cooperating at all with some of the forces inside of Syria, and they want to see [Syrian President Bashar] Assad removed or replaced by another government,” the retired General told Russia's RT.
  The general is retired therfor he can speak his mind. The brass knows if they speak out, they're out.
  The ADM (elites), its our way or the highway.

Generals Opposing Iraq War Break with Military Tradition ...
www.commondreams.org/.../generals-opposing-iraq... - The retired generals beseeched old friends in powerful positions to use .... quite surprised to see so many speaking out against the Iraq war.

Retired generals and admirals urge Congress to reject Iran ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../retired-generals... -  2015 - The letter by 195 former top military officers follows one last week that supported ... U.S. military operations against Islamist extremist organizations as a ... opposed to the agreement, so the Obama administration is focusing on ...

PS: Russia took out 472 terrorist locals in 48 hours ,,&   oil facility's. 
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 27, 2015, 06:45:43 pm
"
... The friend of our enemy is our friend

NATO is harbouring the Islamic State
Why France’s brave new war on ISIS is a sick joke,
and an insult to the victims of the Paris attacks

By Nafeez Ahmed

EXCERPTS:

“We stand alongside Turkey in its efforts in protecting its national security and fighting against terrorism. France and Turkey are on the same side within the framework of the international coalition against the terrorist group ISIS.”
Statement by French Foreign Ministry, July 2015[/b]

"
By now, this implies that Turkey has facilitated over $1 billion
worth of black market ISIS oil sales to date.


There is no “self-sustaining economy” for ISIS, contrary to the fantasies of the Washington Post and Financial Times in their recent faux investigations, according to Martin Chulov of the Guardian:

“… tankers carrying crude drawn from makeshift refineries still make it to the [Turkey-Syria] border. One Isis member says the organisation remains a long way from establishing a self-sustaining economy across the area of Syria and Iraq it controls. ‘They need the Turks. I know of a lot of cooperation and it scares me,’ he said. ‘I don’t see how Turkey can attack the organisation too hard. There are shared interests.’”


The Turkish double-game was confirmed by
multiple rebel sources to McClatchy, but
denied by a Pentagon spokesman who
said, reassuringly:


“Turkey is a NATO ally, close
friend of the United States and an important
partner in the international coalition.”


√  MUST READ: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/europe-is-harbouring-the-islamic-state-s-backers-d24db3a24a40#.q8owv4575
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: iamc2 on November 27, 2015, 07:40:43 pm
 Once Russia stepped into this Game of WAR in The Middle East---NOW the Game is underway---and it is Hard to Beat Russia---just as Hard as it is to beat The USA!

...we are NOW in World War III---just; most of the planet, is dumbfounded by the reality of this moment!~
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: larsonstdoc on November 27, 2015, 07:52:15 pm
http://www.infowars.com/erdogan-pledges-to-start-war-over-russian-anti-aircraft-system-in-syria/

  from infowars.com

ERDOGAN PLEDGES TO START WAR OVER RUSSIAN ANTI-AIRCRAFT SYSTEM IN SYRIA

Moscow has deployed its advanced S-400 air defense system in Syria


Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told CNN International his country will consider it an act of aggression if Russia takes down a Turkish plane violating Syrian airspace.

“In this case Turkey will be forced to take measures that will certainly not be discussed. And of course it would be an aggression against our rights of sovereignty and it’s the natural right of the state to protect those rights. We do not want to see any escalation of the situation in the region. We do not want to become a party to that. But those who side with Syria and escalate the tension, I think, are the responsible parties to this,” Erdogan said.

On Thursday Moscow deployed its advanced S-400 air defense system in Syria. The weapon will be used to protect the Russian Hmeimim airbase in Latakia. The Russian defense ministry posted a video of the deployment on its Facebook page.


Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said his government was “sure that Russian planes destroying IS targets [were] guaranteed not to be attacked from the US-led so-called anti-IS coalition.”

The downing of a Russian SU-24 on Tuesday by NATO member Turkey changed this and “now the safety of Russian fleet’s planes… will be ensured by more secure means,” he said.

“We have pretty good connectivity with the Russians,” Lt. Gen. Charles Brown Jr. told Air Force Times on Wednesday. “With our MOU [Memorandum of Understanding], there are things that are in there that talk about … how we’re not going to show hostile acts or hostile intent from the coalition toward the Russians or from the Russians toward the coalition.”



Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday during a news conference the United States knew the flight path of the aircraft shot down by Turkey.

“The American side, which leads the coalition that Turkey belongs to, knew about the location and time of our planes’ flights, and we were hit exactly there and at that time,” he said.

He said Russia’s military had passed on flight details to the Americans.

Putin then indirectly accused the US of colluding with Turkey to shoot down the plane.

“Why did we pass this information to the Americans? Either they were not controlling what their allies were doing, or they are leaking this information all over the place,” he said.

“And we proceed from the position that there will be no repeat of this, otherwise we’ll have no need of cooperation with anybody, any coalition, any country.”

Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Sasha on November 27, 2015, 09:44:27 pm
Sultan Erdogan's War on...Russia (http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20151125/1030730838/turkey-erdogan-war-russia.html)
Pepe Escobar - Nov 25, 2015 - Sputnik News

Let's cut to the chase. The notion that Turkey's downing of a Russian Su-24 by a made in USA F-16 was carried out without either a green light or at least pre-arranged "support" from Washington invites suspension of disbelief.

Turkey is a mere vassal state, the eastern arm of NATO, which is the European arm of the Pentagon. The Pentagon already issued a denial — which, considering their spectacular record of strategic failures cannot be taken at face value. Plausibly, this might have been a power play by the neocon generals who run the Pentagon, allied with the neocon-infested Obama administration.

The privileged scenario though is of a vassal Turkey led by Sultan Erdogan risking a suicide mission out of its own, current, desperation.

Here's Erdogan's warped reasoning in a nutshell. The Paris tragedy was a huge setback. France started discussing close military collaboration not within NATO, but with Russia. Washington's unstated aim was always to get NATO inside Syria. By having Turkey/NATO — clumsily, inside Syrian territory — attacking Russia, and provoking a harsh Russian response, Erdogan thought he could seduce NATO into Syria, under the pretext (Article 5) of defending Turkey.

continues...
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 28, 2015, 07:47:59 am

... the course is clear as a bell if only
we had right-minded, anti-crazy muslim,
pro-Christian, anti-NWO leaders in
the District of Criminals: Throw Turkey
out of the NATO alliance immediately,
join forces with the RUSSIAN alliance
to wipe out IS once and for all ... and anyone
else that arms and fuels them ... purge our
homelands of crazy muslims and secure the borders ...
and begin the new era of EURO/ASIAN cooperation
that the entire sane world is asking and praying for!
Turkey. Saudi Arabia. Your time is up.

I believe Russia is ready to forgive us for our
stupidity and wrong-headed transgressions in
the fumbling support of CRAZY MUSLIMS if we
act now.


Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Qster on November 28, 2015, 07:40:00 pm
http://www.infowars.com/erdogan-pledges-to-start-war-over-russian-anti-aircraft-system-in-syria/

  from infowars.com

ERDOGAN PLEDGES TO START WAR OVER RUSSIAN ANTI-AIRCRAFT SYSTEM IN SYRIA


It's not an infowars headline, but it does not reflect what Erdogan is reported to have said in the article, but it is the narrative we see being pushed, which is quite revealing.

The quote from the Russians is also interesting:

Quote
He said Russia’s military had passed on flight details to the Americans.

Putin then indirectly accused the US of colluding with Turkey to shoot down the plane.

“Why did we pass this information to the Americans? Either they were not controlling what their allies were doing, or they are leaking this information all over the place,” he said.

“And we proceed from the position that there will be no repeat of this, otherwise we’ll have no need of cooperation with anybody, any coalition, any country.”

The US gave the info to the Turks, who then lay in wait and shot down the plane in what Lavrov called a 'planned provocation'. One wonders what they hoped the Russians would do.

What is clear is that Putin is spoiling their plans and he needs to be stopped by any means. Both the Paris attacks and the Russian airliner attack are both means to this end since they have enabled the French, British and US to justify further airstrikes in Syria, which will be targeting Syrian oil and civil infrastructure, with the intention of turning it into a failed state. The British are having a vote in parliament next week on authorising bombing in Syria, a vote which would not have happened were in not for the Paris attacks.

The last phrase from the Russians 'no need of any coalition, any country', this means that Putin and Assad will probably declare a no fly zone for any aircraft from any country not authorised by the Syrian government, within range of the S400s in Latakia. And they will be within their legal rights to do so.

From here there is a realistic path to a wider and much more serious conflagration, where the no fly zone is violated, and Russia shoots down some aircraft, then the logical move from NATO is to push the Turkish armour over the border into Syria, possibly met with the threat of tactical nukes from Russia.

All the above is pretty obvious stuff, so if Turkey or anyone else attempts to shoot down another plane, the above chain of events is what they want.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 28, 2015, 08:43:58 pm


... I am embarrassed and sorry to say, the US
govt and it's allies can NOT be trusted ... Putin
should watch his back, but hopefully continue
to work with the sensible resistance/adversarial
powers in NATO, and bring them to their senses.
US/EU is stuck in a rut, stubbornly playing out
the totally failed NWO playbook ... I gotta believe
it is being driven by the muslim leanings of Obama.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: lee51 on November 29, 2015, 01:10:42 pm
I believe the following is the goal of Russia (taken from the book: Daniel and Revelation by Uriah Smith, published in 1897)

Russia wants to take over the whole nation of Turkey. They want to drive her out completely and take over that region! There are many reasons, but the biggest two are that they want access to the Mediterranean Sea for military purposes. They also believe as most nations did in history that when they can conquer Turkey, they will have better access to European countries through Istanbul (in 1930 city name was changed from Constantinople to Istanbul). All of Europe will be behind Russia when this happens. No one will come to the aid of Turkey.

Watch what happens in the future--when Turkey is no longer a nation, she will flee and try to set up her kingdom in Jerusalem. Soon after, perhaps within hours, probation will close for this world. Most of you won't believe this but when you see this happen, you may remember what was said here.
 
Do not delay to make your peace with God. 

 
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Jackson Holly on November 29, 2015, 01:43:15 pm


I believe all the countries' borders should be left as is ...
with the possible exception of a Kurdish state, perhaps part
Turkey/part Syria ... but I am NO EXPERT on the Kurds'
needs. I believe there should be a guarded, orderly exodus
of all Christians from muslim-held territory ... if they wish
to leave and be resettled eventually in Xian countries. Once
the IS crazies are sent to allah, I believe the new EU/ASIAN
alliance should stop all imports of oil (and other resources)
from muslim countries ... they will last two weeks without
the constant flow of our blood-money-for-oil. muslims in the
West will, by this time, be up-in-arms and will have to be dealt
with, hopefully another ordered exodus for most, to the muslim
country of their choosing.

Jackson Holly's World Fix.   ;D
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Qster on November 30, 2015, 02:45:07 pm

... I am embarrassed and sorry to say, the US
govt and it's allies can NOT be trusted ... Putin
should watch his back, but hopefully continue
to work with the sensible resistance/adversarial
powers in NATO, and bring them to their senses.
US/EU is stuck in a rut, stubbornly playing out
the totally failed NWO playbook ... I gotta believe
it is being driven by the muslim leanings of Obama
.

hahaha, that is seriously delusional

Don't tell me..Bush 1&2, Clinton (both) are Muslims too, right? It was probably Muslims who killed JFK too..

Thanks for the laugh

Quote from: Jackson Holly
I believe all the countries' borders should be left as is ...
with the possible exception of a Kurdish state, perhaps part
Turkey/part Syria ... but I am NO EXPERT on the Kurds'
needs. I believe there should be a guarded, orderly exodus
of all Christians from muslim-held territory ... if they wish
to leave and be resettled eventually in Xian countries. Once
the IS crazies are sent to allah, I believe the new EU/ASIAN
alliance should stop all imports of oil (and other resources)
from muslim countries ... they will last two weeks without
the constant flow of our blood-money-for-oil. muslims in the
West will, by this time, be up-in-arms and will have to be dealt
with, hopefully another ordered exodus for most, to the muslim
country of their choosing.

Jackson Holly's World Fix.   ;D

haha you're on a roll! Was this a bad head day?

I guess we should all be grateful that this is not JacksonHollyland..
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on November 30, 2015, 06:27:06 pm
  Who do ya trust? 
  The people were convinced Bin L and his crew pulled of 911, the Invasion of Afghanistan began..Rather than get the facts or at least question most folks bobbed their heads, wiggled the flag and went along. ( My opinion had they wanted Bib L he would have been waked out post haste). But the plan was not one nation nor just Binny, it was multiple. Bottom line, the citizens were hysterical, FEAR is CONTROL..
 All of you folks know the invasion of Iraq was a set up, the terror factor initiated-WMD's kept the masses in fear, despite the fact no WMD's existed the GP didn't raise hell. The casualty's were ignored, our troops nor the innocents slaughtered.
 I won't continue a rant all you guys know this, what hasn't been mentioned & may not be of relevance is this entire territory was once the Ottoman Empire till about the 1920's.
 I only mention this for one reason, Empires are destined to fall..As so will this NWO, the price paid will be in blood of the innocents and allways has been. History is  repeated, the same record over and over, the shadow powers and their minions of sucklings are well versed in regards to mankinds history and human nature, they have been at this game for millenniums.
 Peace on earth, goodwill to men, the true power detests this phrase and most certainly consider the people morons incapeable of perceiving their game plan.
 On subject, Russia was backed into a corner as was France, can we speculate as to the insiders knowledge of these attacks, you bet we can.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on January 05, 2016, 07:34:09 pm
"Sputnik": New Serbian ambassador in Saudi Arabia mufti Jusufspahić Jr. thinks that Turkey did not decide alone to shot Russian airplane.
"Turkey is a NATO member. I do not know where the orders are coming. Things are logical, things will change when anyone on either side of the first think about God"
   
http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/9/Politika/2163631/Jusufspahi%C4%87%3A+Turska+nije+sama+odlu%C4%8Dila+da+obori+ruski+avion.htmlhttp://
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on January 06, 2016, 08:18:19 am
funny thing that uk support turkey ;)
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: chris jones on January 06, 2016, 11:11:57 am
 Did they off the pilot yet......deep six the guy or just shred the info.

 They know, and so does Putin.
 
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on June 27, 2016, 12:36:21 pm
Holy crap this is bad.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane-near-border-syria-n468671 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane-near-border-syria-n468671)

ISTANBUL — Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border after it violated Turkish airspace on Tuesday, officials said.

The Russian jet was warned 10 times in five minutes before being shot down, according to the Turkish air force.

Syrian fighters on the ground and Turkish sources told NBC News that the Russian jet's pilots ejected and landed in an area north of Latakia, Syria, that is controlled by rebels fighting to topple President Bashar Assad. Russia has an air base in Latakia which is used to launch bombing raids targeting Assad's foes — including ISIS.





 
 Image: A Sukhoi Su-24 fighter jet

A file photo of a Su-24 fighter jet taking off from the Hmeymim air base near Latakia, Syria. Russia's Defence Ministry / Reuters

Footage from Turkish Haberturk TV showed a warplane going down in flames in a woodland area with a long plume of smoke trailing behind it.

Citing the Kremlin's Defense Ministry, Russian state-run RIA Novosti news agency also reported that a Su-24 had been downed in Turkey near the border with Syria, but said it had been shot down by ground fire. The plane was flying above Syrian territory and not Turkey, according to that report.

The head of the Turkish military briefed President Tayyip Erdogan on the incident, while Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu ordered consultations with NATO, the United Nations and related countries, Reuters reported citing their respective offices.

Russia's Defense Ministry was not immediately available for comment.





According to Russia's Defense Ministry, there are 69 warplanes based in Latakia. Russian planes have run thousands of bombing raids in Syria since Sept. 30 when the Kremlin announced it would start targeting ISIS.

However, U.S. officials say many of the strikes appear to be hitting areas where ISIS doesn't have a presence.

Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered his air force to step-up bombings after a passenger plane crashed in Egypt's Sinai on Oct. 31, killing all 224 on board. On Thursday, ISIS claimed it brought down the Metrojet plane with an improvised bomb.

My name is Recep T. Erdogan.
I was the president of a democratic secular Republic of Turkey.
I ordered to change the democratic constitution to become president and Sultan.
I ordered the shooting down a Russian fighter jet in Syria that was bombed Islamists. The killing of a Russian pilot was not provoked by President Putin to retaliate in kind and start a WW3  (Turkey is a NATO member).
However, Putin struck Turkey on the "wallet". That's hurt.
So I thought today to apologize to the family of murdered pilot and Putin and then it will again be as it was before.

Will Putin "buy" my "apology"?

http://aa.com.tr/en/todays-headlines/erdogan-letter-to-putin-calls-for-friendly-ties/598598http://
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on July 02, 2016, 12:26:34 am
south stream now may have a chance...

turkey has always been a golem as well as ussr/post-soviet russia.
 
one side desided that it would be a good idea to fight some pro-turkish terrorists
other side desided that it would be a good idea  shooting down a plane 
lose-lose.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on July 02, 2016, 05:39:19 am
south stream now may have a chance...

turkey has always been a golem as well as ussr/post-soviet russia.
 
one side desided that it would be a good idea to fight some pro-turkish terrorists
other side desided that it would be a good idea  shooting down a plane 
lose-lose.

You mean "Turkish stream" ?
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on July 02, 2016, 07:27:40 am
should be 'south'. pipeline through black sea.
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on July 02, 2016, 08:32:20 am
should be 'south'. pipeline through black sea.

Both.
Turkish stream: pipeline to Turkey and further via Greece to Italy...
South stream: pipeline to Bulgaria and further via Serbia and Hungary to Austria...
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: regmeok on July 03, 2016, 04:11:15 am
i thought that what was presented as turkish is south stream which changed its earlier planned direction but not name

(http://windowstorussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Turkey-Approves-South-Stream-Offshore-Pipeline.jpg)
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on July 03, 2016, 05:06:43 am
i thought that what was presented as turkish is south stream which changed its earlier planned direction but not name

(http://windowstorussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Turkey-Approves-South-Stream-Offshore-Pipeline.jpg)

Yes, yes. I already open topic about that possible pipeline: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=268367.0
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on July 21, 2016, 08:16:33 pm
Turkish pilot who shot down Russian warplane will become "scapegoat" in purpose to Erdogan`s try to reconcile with Russia ?  :o

http://sputniknews.com/world/20160721/1043417798/turkey-russia-su-24-downing.htmlhttp://
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on July 28, 2016, 10:25:04 am
(http://i.imgur.com/opCTmGX.jpg)(http://)
My name is Ahmed Davutoglu. I was Turkish PM. I ordered to shoot Russian jet. I am killer. I was bring mankind to edge of WW3.
Will someone do something against me?




http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/i-ordered-military-to-down-any-jet-coming-from-syria-former-pm-davutoglu.aspx?PageID=238&NID=102153&NewsCatID=338http://
Title: Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
Post by: Al Bundy on December 13, 2016, 04:05:18 pm
Yesterday in Belgrade, Serbian retired Army Lt. Col. Butolen handed Russian FM Lavrov, Serbian sword with gold intended for the family of murdered Russian pilot Oleg Peskov.

(http://i.imgur.com/galGzuk.jpg)(http://)
At sword writes: "fidelity to the homeland, brother, thank you for sacrificing yourself to light our roads"