PrisonPlanet Forum

Geo-Politics / World War III => RUSSIA and former Soviet Union Empire => The 2010 Coup d'etat in POLAND - Regime Change by Decapitation => Topic started by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:15:25 am

Title: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:15:25 am
Polish president’s plane crashes in Russia; 87 die
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0410/polish-presidents-plane-crashes-russia-87-die/
By The Associated Press
Saturday, April 10th, 2010 -- 4:08 am


Polish president's plane crashes in Russia; reports say 87 dead

Officials say a plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski and his wife has crashed in western Russia and that at least 87 people have been killed.

The Polish Foreign Ministry confirmed that the president and his wife were aboard the plane that crashed Saturday near the city of Smolensk.

A spokeswoman for Russia's Emergencies Ministry, Irina Andrianova, said 87 people were killed but she had no details on their identity.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:20:00 am
MOTIVE?



Polish Role in Secret CIA Prisons Under Probe
http://ww.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5196754
by Rachel Martin
February 8, 2006

Poland's new President Lech Kaczynski meets President Bush in Washington, D.C., Thursday. Cooperation between the two countries in the fight against terrorism has been under investigation in Europe. Poland is at the center of allegations that the CIA was operating secret prisons there and using Polish airports to transport terrorist detainees.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 10, 2010, 03:20:17 am
oh crap.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 10, 2010, 03:20:36 am
the nukes.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:21:06 am
MORE MOTIVE?



Poland Delivers Official Confirmation of CIA Flights
http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/02/22/poland-delivers-official-confirmation-of-cia-flights/tab/article/
By Marcin Sobczyk February 22, 2010, 8:45 AM ET

The Polish aviation authority Monday delivered the first official confirmation that airplanes operated by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency landed in Poland in 2003. According to several unconfirmed reports in the past, the planes may have carried detainees kept at a secret detention facility somewhere in the woods of northern Poland.

It appears that CIA airplanes, mostly en route from Afghanistan, landed several times at a disused military airport in the area. According to unconfirmed reports, the CIA interrogated al-Qaeda suspects in the country.

Poland has several times denied CIA ran the prison on Polish soil. Current President Lech Kaczynski offered his denials. The president at the time of the flights, Aleksander Kwasniewski, said last year Poland cooperated with CIA, which could explain the landings, but he “had no knowledge” of the prison.

Indeed, to admit that CIA had a secret prison in Poland would be extremely damaging to its interests and international image.

On top of that, documents appear to show Poland and the CIA jointly tried to cover up the flights. What’s more, the Helsinki Foundation for Human Rights and the Justice Initiative said Monday the administration of President Barack Obama makes it impossible to bring those responsible to justice.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:29:45 am
(http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pictures/2009_04_090403b-arrivals/20090404_090403b-008.jpg)
"We know it was you Fredo!"

(http://www.taschen.com/media/images/480/default_ce_schapiro_godfather_print_b_shadow_0809081201_id_170415.jpg)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 10, 2010, 03:34:15 am
has anyone confirmed if they were stinger shaped trees?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:39:20 am
has anyone confirmed if they were stinger shaped trees?

also check to see if these are the famous chernyobl depleted uranium trees or space based laser guided "fertilized" trees.

NATO must have at least 100 ways to make this happen.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 10, 2010, 03:40:15 am
Smolensk regional governor Sergei Antufiev told Russian TV that no-one had survived.

"As it was preparing for landing, the Polish president's aircraft did not make it to the landing strip," he said.

"According to preliminary reports, it got caught up in the tops of trees, fell to the ground and broke up into pieces. There are no survivors in that crash.

"We are clarifying how many people there were in the [Polish] delegation. According to preliminary reports, 85 members of the delegation and the crew."

The Polish Foreign Ministry said the president and his wife were aboard the plane.

Central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek was also said to have been on board.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: RonPaulRocks on April 10, 2010, 03:41:21 am
There is no way in hell a Presidents plane crashes by accident. Something was definitely up here. Thank you for the motive articles.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 10, 2010, 03:44:13 am
The BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw says the president was flying in a Tupolev 154, a plane that was designed in the 1960s and capable of carrying more than 100 passengers.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Tupolev_Tu-154.jpg/800px-Tupolev_Tu-154.jpg)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: KazKru on April 10, 2010, 03:46:54 am
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm)

Polish president 'in plane crash'

A plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed near a Russian airport, officials say.

Russian media reported that 87 people were killed in the crash near Smolensk, and a regional governor was quoted as saying there were no survivors.

Polish officials said Mr Kaczynski was on board along with his wife Maria and several senior government figures.

They were in Russia to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when the Soviets killed thousands of Poles.

Plane 'hit trees'

The Russian emergencies ministry told Itar-Tass news agency the plane crashed at 1056 Moscow time (0656 GMT).


Ministry spokeswoman Irina Andrianova said it had been flying from Moscow to Smolensk, but had no details on the identities of those killed.

Smolensk regional governor Sergei Antufiev told Russian TV that no-one had survived.

"As it was preparing for landing, the Polish president's aircraft did not make it to the landing strip," he said.

"According to preliminary reports, it got caught up in the tops of trees, fell to the ground and broke up into pieces. There are no survivors in that crash.

"We are clarifying how many people there were in the [Polish] delegation. According to preliminary reports, 85 members of the delegation and the crew."

The BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw says the president was flying in a Tupolev 154, a plane that was designed in the 1960s and capable of carrying more than 100 passengers.

The Polish Foreign Ministry said the president and his wife were aboard the plane.

Central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek was also said to have been on board.

Mr Kaczynski has been a controversial figure in Polish politics, advocating a right-wing Catholic agenda.

He has opposed rapid free-market reforms and favoured retaining social welfare programmes.


Are you in Smolensk? Did you witness the plane crash? Are you from Poland? What is your reaction to this news? Send us your comments.

Send your pictures and videos to yourpics@bbc.co.uk or text them to +44 7725 100 100. If you have a large file you can upload here.

At no time should you endanger yourself or others, take any unnecessary risks or infringe any laws.

Read the terms and conditions

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm

Published: 2010/04/10 08:37:16 GMT

© BBC MMX
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:49:41 am
flashback: NATO assassinates Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro


The Assassination of Aldo Moro
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational/watch/v516619jzfbJNGd

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23709



NATO, Propaganda Due and Gladio
http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com/allposts/nato-propaganda-due-and-gladio
16th September 2008


” … The Italian setup metastasized into other countries, building links with dictatorships like that of Argentina’s Jorge Videla and Chile’s Augusto Pinochet, and leading to terrorist actions all over the world. … In the former West Germany, the U.S. and the Adenauer government did not shrink from working with Gen. Reinhard Gehlen’s secret network of former (?) Nazis … “

NATO, an idea whose time has gone
Author: Emile Schepers
People’s Weekly World
09/12/08 15:23

When NATO (the North Atlantic Treaty Organization) was founded after World War II, its first secretary general, British general Lord Ismay, succinctly stated its real, original purpose: “To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.” In other words, NATO was supposed to be an instrument not for spreading democracy, but for maintaining geopolitical hegemony in Europe by the Western capitalist states. Very soon, of course, the idea of keeping the Germans “down” was scrapped, and Germany became a major actor in NATO military matters.

But now NATO is being repackaged for the media as a sort of organization of world crusaders for democracy. New NATO members have been recruited from former socialist states and former member states of the Soviet Union, under the slogan of “protecting” those countries’ freedom. NATO participated in the destruction of Yugoslavia and in the Gulf War and Afghanistan, and now may recruit Georgia, which is pretty far from the “North Atlantic.” It is no coincidence that the pattern of new and prospective NATO states forms a close ring around Russia, with an interesting proximity to major oil pipelines also.

While our corporate media paint a pretty picture of NATO, its real history shows it to be much closer to Lord Ismay’s depiction of a grouping aimed at issues of power, not democracy.

A particularly sinister aspect of NATO was what came to be called Operation Gladio (“gladius” means “sword” in Latin), for its Italian manifestation. This was (and probably still is) a NATO-sponsored top secret “stay behind” program, operating under various names in all the NATO countries and in several neutral ones, including Finland, Switzerland and Sweden. The official purpose was that if the USSR and its allies would some day overrun Western Europe (a thing that never happened, and was never going to happen), there would be clandestine networks of military and civil personnel who could disrupt, attack and eventually drive out the Soviet forces.

In reality Operation Gladio became a mechanism whereby fascist and criminal elements could be secretly mobilized, not against a foreign invasion, but against progressive and labor forces within each country. To this day, there has not been a full public airing of just exactly what arrangements were made under Gladio in every NATO country.

But we do know something about what Gladio did in Italy, and it has nothing to do with democracy, freedom or the rule of law.

In Italy, the original Gladio formed its clandestine networks on the basis of old fascists (Mussolini leftovers) and their younger imitators, the Mafia and other criminal organizations, and the extreme right wing of the Roman Catholic Church, including the well known organization Opus Dei. It had a close link to a corrupt Masonic lodge, Propaganda Due (or P2) to which key military and civilian officials belonged. Funding came partly from the CIA.

When Osama bin Laden was just a callow youth, the Gladio-P2 network carried out bombing campaigns which they then blamed on the far left. The idea of this “strategy of tension” was to maintain a high level of fear and uncertainty in the population, which would lead people to reject voting for the then-huge Italian Communist Party (PCI), and that might make a right-wing coup possible. Only the most violent of many such actions was the 1969 Piazza Fontana bombing in Milan, which killed 17, and the 1980 bombing of the train station in Bologna, in which 85 innocent civilians died. There may have been a connection to the kidnapping and murder of Prime Minister Aldo Moro in 1978 as well: Moro had been working toward a “grand alliance” of his Christian Democratic Party with the PCI. He was killed by ultra-leftist terrorists, but Gladio sometimes manipulated such people and encouraged their terrorism, because it helped the “strategy of tension.”

The Italian setup metastasized into other countries, building links with dictatorships like that of Argentina’s Jorge Videla and Chile’s Augusto Pinochet, and leading to terrorist actions all over the world.

When the relationship between Propaganda Due and Gladio came to light, in the wake of the huge Vatican banking scandal (Banco Ambrosiano) which forms part of the plot of the movie “Godfather III,” there was a wave of indignation in and beyond Italy. When it was discovered that the CIA was funding much of the Gladio-type activity, and along with Britain’s MI6 was participating in planning functions, Italian authorities asked for clarification from the George H.W. Bush and Clinton administrations, which to date have not been given.

The NATO “stay behind” networks have been involved in many other undemocratic actions in the NATO countries and beyond, including massacres of leftist protesters in Turkey, the 1967 “colonels’ coup” in Greece, and, possibly, the assassination of African freedom fighters against Portuguese colonialism, Amilcar Cabral and Eduardo Mondlane. In the former West Germany, the U.S. and the Adenauer government did not shrink from working with Gen. Reinhard Gehlen’s secret network of former (?) Nazis when setting up equivalent structures.

We now see NATO incorporating more and more countries which are many long miles from the “North Atlantic” region. The pretext is to defend democracy against outside threats, but the reality is that the point of NATO’s sword is aimed at democratic and left-wing forces within the countries in which it establishes itself, as well as at economic and military rivals.

NATO is not a force for democracy, but its opposite. And far from being an organization for fighting terrorism, NATO itself stands accused of fomenting terrorism. It is time for it to go.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:51:21 am
Is this part of the new Kissinger/NATO assassination program?

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=165896.0
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: worcesteradam on April 10, 2010, 03:57:21 am
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev immediately ordered a government commission to investigate the crash. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was placed in charge of the investigation.

1. not a police investigation
2. KGB run by Putin
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: RonPaulRocks on April 10, 2010, 04:00:57 am
http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-04-10/plane-crash-smolensk-region.html

RT is a good news source.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 10, 2010, 04:04:20 am
Poles want apology for Katyn (http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul129089_poles-want-apology-for-katyn.html)
09.04.2010 09:55

Fifty seven percent of Poles want Russian to make a clear apology for the 1940 Katyn massacre.

 
The CBOS institute poll follows the joint Polish-Russian ceremony to commemorate the 70th anniversary - attended by both Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Donald Tusk - of the massacre when over 20,000 Polish officers were killed by the NKVD. Putin’s speech on Wednesday at the Katyn Memorial failed to express sufficient contrition of the incident which has been a source of conflict between the two nations for decades.

 
Fifty six percent of the respondents think that the Russians should open up all the archives relating to the Katyn crime. Fifty three percent of Poles are of the opinion that Moscow should recognize the massacre of 22, 000 Poles in 1940 as a crime of genocide.

 
The results of the public opinion poll are very much the same as in a similar survey two years ago. Only 27 percent of Poles, however, as compared to 43 percent in 2008, assign importance to reopening the investigation into the crime.

 
Only 21 percent of the respondents, 11 percent less than two years ago, say that the those perpetrators of the killings who are still alive should stand trial.

 
Meabwhile, over four hundred people, mostly members of the families of the victims of Katyń, leave Warsaw today in a special train bound for Smolensk in western Russia. They will attend tomorrow’s ceremonies at nearby Katyn Forest, together with President Lech Kaczyński. Some of these people have come from the United States, Britain, Canada and Norway, the countries of their residence. The group also includes Polish Army soldiers and members of Polish Scouting organizations. (mk/pg)

______________________________________________________

Russians - no apologies for Katyn  (http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul128993_russians---no-apologies-for-katyn-.html)
08.04.2010 07:56

Most Russians do not want Vladimir Putin to apologise to Poland for the 1940 Katyn massacre.

 
A poll for the Lewada Centre shows that almost every second Russian (46.8 percent) thinks that the Russian PM should not apologize for the murder of over 20,000 Polish officers in Katyn during WW II because Nazi Germany, not the Soviet Union, was responsible for the crime.

 
Thirty four percent of Russians who attribute the crime to Soviets think that the Russian Federation should not take responsibility for past Soviet Union’s crimes and eight percent claim that an apology would weaken Russia’s ties with Poland.

 
Only 18 percent think that an apology for the Katyn massacre is necessary and as many as 36 percent of Russians have no opinion on the issue.

 
At the same time almost half of Russians (47 percent) consider Polish-Russian relations to be rather good or very good. One third of respondents do not know, however, what role Poland plays in Russia’s foreign policy; 26.8 percent think it is Russia’s partner and 22.1 percent claim that it is Russia’s ally. (mg)

 
The survey was conducted on 6 April among 1,600 randomly chosen Russians. (mg)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:09:36 am
Poles want apology for Katyn (http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul129089_poles-want-apology-for-katyn.html)
09.04.2010 09:55

Fifty seven percent of Poles want Russian to make a clear apology for the 1940 Katyn massacre.

 
The CBOS institute poll follows the joint Polish-Russian ceremony to commemorate the 70th anniversary - attended by both Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Donald Tusk - of the massacre when over 20,000 Polish officers were killed by the NKVD. Putin’s speech on Wednesday at the Katyn Memorial failed to express sufficient contrition of the incident which has been a source of conflict between the two nations for decades.

 
Fifty six percent of the respondents think that the Russians should open up all the archives relating to the Katyn crime. Fifty three percent of Poles are of the opinion that Moscow should recognize the massacre of 22, 000 Poles in 1940 as a crime of genocide.

 
The results of the public opinion poll are very much the same as in a similar survey two years ago. Only 27 percent of Poles, however, as compared to 43 percent in 2008, assign importance to reopening the investigation into the crime.

 
Only 21 percent of the respondents, 11 percent less than two years ago, say that the those perpetrators of the killings who are still alive should stand trial.

 
Meabwhile, over four hundred people, mostly members of the families of the victims of Katyń, leave Warsaw today in a special train bound for Smolensk in western Russia. They will attend tomorrow’s ceremonies at nearby Katyn Forest, together with President Lech Kaczyński. Some of these people have come from the United States, Britain, Canada and Norway, the countries of their residence. The group also includes Polish Army soldiers and members of Polish Scouting organizations. (mk/pg)

______________________________________________________

Russians - no apologies for Katyn  (http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul128993_russians---no-apologies-for-katyn-.html)
08.04.2010 07:56

Most Russians do not want Vladimir Putin to apologise to Poland for the 1940 Katyn massacre.

 
A poll for the Lewada Centre shows that almost every second Russian (46.8 percent) thinks that the Russian PM should not apologize for the murder of over 20,000 Polish officers in Katyn during WW II because Nazi Germany, not the Soviet Union, was responsible for the crime.

 
Thirty four percent of Russians who attribute the crime to Soviets think that the Russian Federation should not take responsibility for past Soviet Union’s crimes and eight percent claim that an apology would weaken Russia’s ties with Poland.

 
Only 18 percent think that an apology for the Katyn massacre is necessary and as many as 36 percent of Russians have no opinion on the issue.

 
At the same time almost half of Russians (47 percent) consider Polish-Russian relations to be rather good or very good. One third of respondents do not know, however, what role Poland plays in Russia’s foreign policy; 26.8 percent think it is Russia’s partner and 22.1 percent claim that it is Russia’s ally. (mg)

 
The survey was conducted on 6 April among 1,600 randomly chosen Russians. (mg)

Yeah, I was also curious why Western Media was playing up those stories...looks like NATO may have been working early on the plan B cover story. No way Putin drops a plane in Russia. This is classic "Red Brigade" NATO false flag assassination strategy from start to finish.



A must see film about NATO's assassination of Aldo Moro.

It is the "JFK" film on Aldo Moro and also stars Donald Sutherland:

Piazza delle cinque lune
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366900/
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Okinawa on April 10, 2010, 04:11:24 am
No survivors in Polish president's air crash: Russia http://www.vancouversun.com/news/survivors+Polish+president+crash+Russia/2787265/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/survivors+Polish+president+crash+Russia/2787265/story.html)
Reuters April 10, 2010 1:50 AM

A July 2007 file photo shows Poland's President Lech Kaczynski and his wife Maria waving at the door of Air Force One at Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum in Simi Valley, California. There were no survivors in the crash of the plane carrying Kaczynski and his wife Maria in Russia on Saturday, Polish state news agency PAP reported, quoting local officials in Smolensk. The Polish central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek was also on board the plane, the bank's press office told Reuters.

SMOLENSK, Russia - There were no survivors in the crash of a plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski in Russia, the local governor of the Smolensk region where the crash took place said on Saturday.

About 130 people died in the crash, a Russian emergencies official told Reuters at the scene.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 10, 2010, 04:15:01 am
As well as the president and his wife, Maria, a number of senior officials were also said to be on the passenger list.

They included the army chief of staff Gen Franciszek Gagor, central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek and deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer. 


From BBC
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:18:07 am
"The Polish central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek was also on board the plane"


whooooah!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 10, 2010, 04:20:34 am
Devastation at plane crash site


Follow link for Video.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm)

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Okinawa on April 10, 2010, 04:22:53 am
What the Russian papers say http://en.rian.ru/papers/20100408/158483693.html (http://en.rian.ru/papers/20100408/158483693.html)
© Alex Steffler
16:2208/04/2010
Kommersant, Nezavisimaya Gazeta

Moscow sees new START treaty as big success
Today in Prague, Dmitry Medvedev and Barack Obama will finally sign a 156-page Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty. Officials in Moscow are satisfied with what has been accomplished, and are proud to be an equal party to a major international nuclear reductions agreement as in times past. This agreement offers hope that Russian-American relations will see a rapid improvement now.

"It was a test of attitudes. Few believed they would be negotiating in earnest, but the talks were not just for show. The Americans discovered that the Russians did have a strategic reductions agenda of their own," Dmitry Trenin from the Moscow Carnegie Center said.

Sergei Rogov, director of the Institute of the USA and Canada, added: "The very fact that the United States is signing this agreement with Russia and Russia alone, rather than with China or India or Europe, boosts Russia's international influence and confirms that Russia is one of the important forces on the international stage and that its interests have to be reckoned with."

At a Moscow news conference on Tuesday, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov obviously indulged in repeating that there was "absolute parity" in the new agreement. This subtle psychological factor is important to Moscow, is reminiscent of its former clout, when the Soviet Union was considered an equal match to the United States. Officials at the Kremlin and at the Foreign Ministry emphasize that START-3 creates opportunities to push the bilateral partnership further. This partnership should expand to non-military areas as well.

A source at the Kremlin executive office said: "We hope that our relations have gone from confrontation to cooperation, which is bound to involve hard work. We are satisfied with the agreement, although certain so-called analysts are outraged and argue that Moscow's consent to disarm means a defeat. What are they calling for? What options do we have? To continue an exhaustive arms race? Or to explain flaws in our own mentality by hostile sabotage? This is not the right thing to do."

Analysts believe that the Russian-American nuclear agreement will eventually lead to resolution of other disputed issues. "I expect some positive changes with regard to cancelling the Jackson-Vanik Amendment, and in Russia's WTO accession process," Rogov said.

"Ratification of this treaty would also mean a defeat for the Hawks who support Russian-American confrontation. No one really wants to fight; they just want to take cash from the budget," he added.

Kommersant, Moskovsky Komsomolets, Izvestia, Nezavisimaya Gazeta

Russia could benefit from unrest in Kyrgyzstan
Five years after the so-called tulip revolution in Kyrgyzstan, the northern and southern clans of that Central Asian republic are again fighting for power, with at least 74 people dead during nationwide protests. Analysts believe that the outcome of the confrontation largely depends on the attitude of the key regional players, Russia, the United States and China.

"By and large, Moscow, Washington and Beijing are not interested in destabilization in Kyrgyzstan," said Alexei Vlasov, director of Moscow State University's Center for the Study of Political Processes in the CIS.

Andrei Grozin, Central Asia sector head at the Institute of the CIS Countries, said: "China traditionally fears that any unrest in the neighboring republic could spread to its western provinces, the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region. The United States, which is mostly concerned with Afghanistan, has no complaints with President Kurmanbek Bakiyev and his assistance in ensuring the delivery of military cargo to the U.S.-led NATO troops in Afghanistan. Unrest [in Kyrgyzstan] can only slightly affect that route."

Moscow has dissociated itself from the conflict and called on the involved parties to "refrain from violence." President Bakiyev probably expected Russia, its partner in the regional Collective Security Treaty Organization, to support him more emphatically. But there is nothing surprising in Russia's stand.

"Kyrgyzstan is our ally in the CIS and several other regional organizations, but its behavior has been ambivalent," said Konstantin Zatulin, a member of Russia's parliament and the director of the Institute of the CIS Countries.

Russia has a number of complaints against Kyrgyzstan.
In June last year, Bakiyev approved the preservation of the U.S. military base at Manas airport, contrary to Moscow's wish. He only changed its name to the Transit Center, although he had said in Moscow before doing so that the base would be closed. Believing his assurances, Russia allocated a $150 million gratis loan and a $300 million easy loan to Kyrgyzstan and wrote off its $180 million debt.

It has been reported in 2010 that Kyrgyz authorities plan to set up one more U.S. facility in the republic, a training center in the Batken Region.

However, none of the above points to Russia's desire to support Bakiyev's opponents.

"It does not matter to Moscow who is president of Kyrgyzstan," said Mikhail Rostovsky, a commentator with the daily Moskovsky Komsomolets. "Any person holding the post, provided he is not crazy, will try to maintain good relations with Russia while playing a complicated game with the other global power centers. However, Russia does need to see at least a semblance of stability in Kyrgyzstan. The North Caucasus is aflame, and so Russia would do anything to prevent the appearance of one more battlefront in the war against Islamic fundamentalism, which thrives on chaos."

However, Grozin thinks that "the Kremlin can benefit from these developments, as Kyrgyz authorities will now become more cautious in their relations with the United States. This is enough for Moscow."

RBC Daily

Putin tries to untangle "Katyn knot" in Russian-Polish relations
On Wednesday, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin tried to unravel the "Katyn knot" which has been complicating relations between Moscow and Warsaw for the past 70 years and which serves as a pretext for boisterous accusation.

Putin invited his Polish counterpart, Donald Tusk, to Katyn, a village in the Smolensk Region, where he became the first Russian leader to visit a memorial cemetery where an estimated 4,000 Polish officers are buried. Somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 Polish prisoners of war were executed in the Soviet Union in 1940.

It was not until April 1990 that the Kremlin, in the person of Mikhail Gorbachev, admitted to perpetrating the Katyn massacre. In 1993, Russian President Boris Yeltsin visited the Powazki Cemetery monument to Katyn victims in Warsaw and uttered the famous phrase: "Forgive us!"

However, most of the archived documents remain classified, and the official culprit list is limited to Soviet secret service chiefs Lavrenty Beria, Vsevolod Merkulov and his henchmen. The European Court of Human Rights continues to receive lawsuits against Russia from Katyn-victim relatives.

Warsaw believes that, apart from normalizing relations, Moscow wants to attain other political goals. Unlike Prime Minister Tusk, no one invited Polish President Lech Kaczynski to Katyn, although he had publicly stated his desire to go.

Some Polish analysts believe that Moscow is trying to drive a wedge between the Polish president and the prime minister by openly supporting the liberal Tusk, rather than the conservative Kaczynski who has long irritated Moscow, almost to the same extent as Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili or former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko.

Bilateral relations hit an all-time low in 2006-2007 under Kaczynski's identical twin brother Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the then prime minister of Poland.

After Tusk became prime minister, he lifted the Polish veto on initial talks to conclude a new Russia-EU Partnership and Cooperation Agreement (PCA), while Moscow agreed to resume Polish meat imports.

However, a bilateral thaw did not prevent Lech Kaczynski from visiting Tbilisi in August 2008 and supporting Saakashvili at a meeting during the Russian-Georgian conflict over the break-away province of South Ossetia.

Lech Kaczynski will vie against Bronislaw Komorowski, a Polish politician and member of the Civic Platform party together with Tusk, during the next Polish presidential election, scheduled to be held in the fall of 2010.

Russia avoids any contact with Kaczynski, including those initiated by him. Two months ago, President Dmitry Medvedev turned down an invitation to attend celebrations marking the 65th anniversary of liberating the Auschwitz concentration camp in Nazi-occupied Poland even though a new Russian pavilion had opened there.

At their concluding news conference, Putin and Tusk agreed that the Russian goodwill gesture signified a turning point in bilateral relations. It appears, however, that the issue has not been removed from the political agenda.

Tusk cautioned that it should not be expected that everyone will make a similar assessment of the Katyn meeting. Putin set forth the Russian stance implying that humanitarian issues are the only factor hindering mutual understanding on the Katyn issue.

"We don't want to place the relatives of the deceased in an ambiguous situation," Putin said, hinting that Moscow's stance on the issue remained firm.

Gazeta.ru


Russian Railways to push wide gauge into Europe
Russian Railways (RZD) has neared the implementation stage of a project that has been discussed over the past ten years: to extend Russia's wide track gauge into Europe. This would enable Europe to receive goods from Asia faster and at less cost. In addition, the Russian rail monopoly would gain a decisive edge over road and sea transport by linking Central Europe with areas served by the Trans-Siberian Railway.

In Bratislava, a four-authority agreement has been signed on a feasibility study for a rail line from Kosice, Slovakia, to Vienna, Austria.

Russia's rail gauge is 1,520 mm wide, compared with the 1,435 mm standard gauge in Europe. The wide-gauge railroad to Europe would run from the Slovakia-Ukraine border to Bratislava and then to Vienna, creating a logistics hub on the Danube. The German company Roland Berger Strategy Consultants has been chosen as the main contractor for the investment feasibility study.

RZD and Slovakia's Tatravagonka will also sign an agreement for a joint venture to design and manufacture freight cars and TMKh Vagonostroyenie will conclude an agreement for a joint venture with the same company for the production of articulated flatcars.

Investment estimates are in the $2-$3 billion range. Revenue and spending will be shared in proportion to the length of the system passing through each respective country, according to RZD President Vladimir Yakunin.

"The logistics gains from this plan are obvious," says Igor Nikolayev, director of the FBK strategic department. "It is one thing to haul goods from Asia along the Trans-Siberian Railway to St. Petersburg or to Baltic ports, then reload them there and forward them on by sea to Europe, but it is quite another to transport goods directly into the heart of Europe on one gauge without the losses in time and money necessary for transfers."

By extending the wide gauge, RZD will be able to increase freight traffic along the Trans-Siberian route from the Asia-Pacific region to Europe, "and this will involve all kinds of cargo, including equipment," the expert said. The company's transit earnings will also increase.

Austria will stand to gain economically as well. After all, it is there that the main logistics center will be built to transfer containers and commodities from one gauge to the other or to trucks. "One such center will be enough, it makes no sense to extend wide gauge to other countries," Nikolayev says. "Europe has well developed rail and highway networks, and freight will be quickly and efficiently forwarded to other countries."

It is not out of the question, however, to consider some south-bound lines: to the Adriatic Sea, to the former Yugoslavia or to Italy. German railway lines are also interested in the project.

RIA Novosti is not responsible for the content of outside sources. MOSCOW, April 8 (RIA Novosti)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:24:41 am
http://seekingalpha.com/article/76446-g-7-central-bankers-stymied-by-crude-oil-vigilantes

European Central Bank chief, Jean Trichet, chaired a meeting of central bankers from the “Group of 10” industrialized nations on May 5th, and acknowledged that:

"Inflation risks are significant under the influence of oil and energy price increases, commodity price increases more generally, and food and agricultural products. This is perceived in all economies without exception. This is no time for complacency for central banks in any respect."



So the EU bank chief promotes "Problem/Reaction/Solution" to financial crisis.

How did the Polish Central Bank Chief respond?



“Food pressures are one of the most serious problems that we have to face now,” added Poland’s central bank chief, Slawomir Skrzypek. “But central banks cannot use monetary policy tools to manage this problem,” he said.



Polish Central Bank chief was against using monetary policy to always be in reaction mode. Not a friend to the Keynesian system or the G7/NATO banksters from this information, but requires more research.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 10, 2010, 04:25:17 am
The unofficial list is :

- President with wife
- Chief of Polish National Bank
- Vice minister of foreign affairs
- Some lower house congressmen
- Various other important people

They're not releasing the list until the families are informed.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: pjcz on April 10, 2010, 04:28:07 am
Sky News just reported the 'suspected cause' of the plane crash as pilot error. Doesn't that seem like a fairly quick conclusion, even if it's only suspected at this point? Don't plane crashes, especially those that involve heads of state, typically require intense investigations before a cause is determined (even those that end with the conclusion of pilot error)?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:30:40 am
Sky News just reported the 'suspected cause' of the plane crash as pilot error. Doesn't that seem like a fairly quick conclusion, even if it's only suspected at this point? Don't plane crashes, especially those that involve heads of state, typically require intense investigations before a cause is determined (even those that end with the conclusion of pilot error)?

classic sign of false flag logistics to quickly sprinkle the official narrative without any logic.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Okinawa on April 10, 2010, 04:31:02 am
Poland in shock as president feared dead in crash http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/7574238/Poland-in-shock-as-president-feared-dead-in-crash.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/7574238/Poland-in-shock-as-president-feared-dead-in-crash.html)
The Polish president Lech Kaczynski was feared dead after his plane crashed as it approached a Russian airport, killing 130 people.
Published: 10:22AM BST 10 Apr 2010

President Lech Kaczynski was travelling with his wife from Warsaw to Smolensk airport, 220 miles southwest of Moscow, when his plane crashed in thick fog.

Poland was left stunned by the news that their president, his wife, and a whole swath of the Polish elite had been killed.

A television newsreader fought back tears as she relayed the news that the head of the Polish army and the head of the presidential administration were also on board the plane, along with the president's wife and families of other senior officials.

The plane was also carrying the governor of Poland's central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek.

Sergei Antufiev, the regional governor of the Smolensk, said that everyone on board had been killed.

"It clipped the tops of the trees, crashed down and broke into pieces," Mr Antufiev, told Russia-24 television news network by telephone. "There were no survivors." Polish state news agency PAP also said there were no survivors.

William Hague, shadow foreign minister, wrote on Twitter: "Very sad this morning about the death of Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash - a brave man who was interned by the Communists for his beliefs."

Mr Kaczynski, 60, had been president since December 2005. He was married with one daughter.

Mr Kaczynski had been flying to Katyn, near Smolensk, to commemorate Russian and Polish victims of Soviet leader Josef Stalin.

Thousands of Polish prisoners of war and intellectuals were murdered at Katyn by Soviet forces in spring 1940 in an enduring symbol for Poles of their suffering under Soviet rule.

Families of those killed at Katyn were also on board the plane, the Polish government official at the airport said.

In the case of a president's death, the speaker of the lower chamber of parliament, Bronislaw Komorowski, takes over as head of state, Mr Komorowski's assistant Jerzy Smolinski told Reuters.

Conditions around the airport were described as foggy when the Tupolev Tu-154 came down a mile from the airport.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: pjcz on April 10, 2010, 04:31:48 am
That was my first impression. Of course, I don't want to jump to my conclusions too soon either, but...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:33:59 am
I suspect that the central bank issue is the main target for this assassination.

If Poland joined Greece/Iceland than it would present huge problems to G7/NATO banksters.

Also the BS NATO missile defense faux shield issue may require addiional investigation. Obama scraped it in 2009 and it was never about what they said it was about.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Okinawa on April 10, 2010, 04:35:15 am
Human error caused crash of Polish president's airplane in Russia http://en.rian.ru/world/20100410/158507526.html (http://en.rian.ru/world/20100410/158507526.html)
© REUTERS/ Handout
Related News
13:0410/04/2010

Human error was most likely to blame for the crash of Polish President Lech Kaczynski's airplane in western Russia in which 132 people including the president died, a Russian security source said.

"A mistake by the crew during landing maneuvers has supposedly caused the crash," the source in the regional security bodies, who refused to be identified, told RIA Novosti.

There have been no official suggestions of what had caused the crash.

MOSCOW, April 10 (RIA Novosti)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: worcesteradam on April 10, 2010, 04:37:51 am
what was the entire government doing flying to Russia

who set it up?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:38:05 am
Human error caused crash of Polish president's airplane in Russia http://en.rian.ru/world/20100410/158507526.html (http://en.rian.ru/world/20100410/158507526.html)
© REUTERS/ Handout
Related News
13:0410/04/2010

Human error was most likely to blame for the crash of Polish President Lech Kaczynski's airplane in western Russia in which 132 people including the president died, a Russian security source said.

"A mistake by the crew during landing maneuvers has supposedly caused the crash," the source in the regional security bodies, who refused to be identified, told RIA Novosti.

There have been no official suggestions of what had caused the crash.

MOSCOW, April 10 (RIA Novosti)


Just like with Senator Wellstone:
http://www.oilempire.us/wellstone.html

Must watch to understand just a little bit about plane assassinations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vbf49kzWFw





And JFK, Jr.: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3179462717908405974
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:38:42 am
what was the entire government doing flying to Russia

who set it up?

good point!

who set it up and who knew and why all on one plane?

Decapitation Strategy? Where have I heard that before?
http://terrorwonk.blogspot.com/2008/05/statistical-analysis-of-decapitation-as.html

And what is the purpose of the Predator?

The strategy in these Predator strikes is one of decapitation—if you cut off enough heads, the multi-headed hydra will die.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Okinawa on April 10, 2010, 04:39:36 am
Poland president dead as west Russia plane crash kills 132 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1161985.html (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1161985.html)
By Yossi Melman News Agencies

Polish president Lech Kaczynski was killed on Saturday as his plane crashed on approach to Smolensk airport in western Russia, local officials said.

One hundred and thirty-two passengers were on board the plane, Polish officials told Haaretz, adding that the crash appeared accidental and that so far there was no suspicion of a terror attack.

There was no indication as to whether the crash was caused by a technical failure or human error.

Poland's foreign ministry confirmed that the president and his wife, Maria, were aboard the plane. Polish state news agency PAP said there were no survivors in the crash, recorded at 10:50AM local time some 400km west of Moscow.

The Russian-built Tupolev Tu-154, which was over 20 years old, went down some 1.5km from Smolensk airport in foggy conditions. The plane reportedly struck trees as it approached the airport and caught fire. The flames have since been extinguished.

Polish sources told Haaretz that despite a recent upgrade, the Smolensk airport was not fitted with special anti-fog radar common in the West.

A Polish official said the head of the Polish army and the head of the presidential administration were also on board the plane, along with the central bank governor and other senior officials.

"The plane caught fire after the crash. Teams began attempting to pull out passengers from the badly damaged airplane," said a Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman in Warsaw.

Kaczynski was due to visit Smolensk to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when Soviet troops killed 22,000 Poles. Planned ceremonies in Katyn were called off and attendees said they would instead pray for the victims of the plane crash

The Polish government will hold an extraordinary meeting later on Saturday, the government press office said in a statement.

Bronislaw Komorowski, the speaker of Poland's parliament and a former defense minister will take over as interim president, sources told Haaretz.

Komorovski had already been named as a candidate to succeed Kaczynski following elections later in 2010.

Kaczynski, 60, became president in December 2005 after defeating current Prime Minister Donald Tusk in that year's presidential vote. The nationalist conservative was the twin brother of Poland's opposition leader, former prime minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 10, 2010, 04:48:21 am
I think it may have a lot to do with the "Katyn Massacre" event they had just been attending and its significance.

Regardless, of motivation, though, it is important to remember his twin brother, the Prime Minister, is quite alive.

This is definitely a suspicious event.  I wouldn't rule out the idea that this was orchestrated in Russia, though, or perhaps done with their complicity.  Putin just happens to be in charge of the investigation ordered by Medvedev.  Hmmmm...

"Round up the usual suspects."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: GI Jane on April 10, 2010, 04:48:57 am
Now this week we have the take over in Kyrgyzstan (again) and now this. Clearly Russia would like the Polish leader off the poliical stage. But what about Kyrgyzstan? Is this the Cia acting? MI5? Or the Russians and China taking advantage of a broke weak America. I am not sure. I would like to think the people of Kyrgyzstan are awake to globalism and are fighting it. It is true the plane crash could have been a accident but that seems unlikely at least in my mind.  This seems like Zbigniew brzezinski's chess board. This could also be an attack on Zbigniew brzezinski's plans. So what do you all think is this the Zbigniew brzezinski CFR CIA MI5 crowd or the Russia and China crowd fighting back and is that behind the Kyrgyzstan mess and the plane crash with the polish president on the plane?  
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: KazKru on April 10, 2010, 04:51:18 am
Now this week we have the take over in Kyrgyzstan (again) and now this. Clearly Russia would like the Polish leader off the poliical stage. But what about Kyrgyzstan? Is this the Cia acting? MI5? Or the Russians and China taking advantage of a broke weak America. I am not sure. I would like to think the people of Kyrgyzstan are awake to globalism and are fighting it. It is true the plane crash could have been a accident but that seems unlikely at least in my mind.  This seems like Zbigniew brzezinski's chess board. This could also be an attack on Zbigniew brzezinski's plans. So what do you all think is this the Zbigniew brzezinski CFR CIA MI5 crowd or the Russia and China crowd fighting back and is that behind the Kyrgyzstan mess and the plane crash with the polish president on the plane?  

Add in the Moscow subway bombings last week, and there seems to be a lot happening in that part of the world lately.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:55:40 am
I am not a fan of fulford, but this is interesting:

http://benjaminfulford.net/2010/02/08/simultaneous-military-g7-and-bis-summits-point-to-something-big/
February 8, 2010

Major world changes are clearly close on the horizon. This past weekend saw a G7 Finance Minister’s summit near the North pole, a BIS central bank governor’s summit in Australia and a gathering of the world’s military leaders (including Nato, Russia and China) in Germany. All of this is a sign of preparation for some major public announcements almost certainly related to the new financial system.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: GI Jane on April 10, 2010, 04:57:06 am
Wow yeah so much news I forgot about that. Yeah Russia using False Flag attack knowing America is broke and weak also in context of the arms treaty this week I think all these latest actions are Russia. Basically I see it this way the Globalists are fighting for the top of the pyramid USA JEWS UK VS Russia China they all agree we will have a new world order but they don't agree on who gets to run it. What is sad about this is this could cause World War 3. Since The US and the UK have been so successful in using False Flag fake Terror attacks now we have the Russians fighting for power in the same way.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 04:57:30 am
I think it may have a lot to do with the "Katyn Massacre" event they had just been attending and its significance.

Regardless, of motivation, though, it is important to remember his twin brother, the Prime Minister, is quite alive.

This is definitely a suspicious event.  I wouldn't rule out the idea that this was orchestrated in Russia, though, or perhaps done with their complicity.  Putin just happens to be in charge of the investigation ordered by Medvedev.  Hmmmm...

"Round up the usual suspects."

not a chance, that was old news drummed up almost to create a backround cover story (classic FF consitioning - similar to what was done with Aldo Moro, MLK, JFK, RFK), this was a bankers/political meeting with Russia, an obvious threat to NATO/G7 Banksters who are on the verge of imploding.

the polish banker was against using central banks against the citizens.

the bankster issue is always the one that causes heads of states to be assassinate...jfk/lincoln
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 10, 2010, 05:01:21 am
I think it may have a lot to do with the "Katyn Massacre" event they had just been attending and its significance.

Regardless, of motivation, though, it is important to remember his twin brother, the Prime Minister, is quite alive.

This is definitely a suspicious event.  I wouldn't rule out the idea that this was orchestrated in Russia, though, or perhaps done with their complicity.  Putin just happens to be in charge of the investigation ordered by Medvedev.  Hmmmm...

"Round up the usual suspects."

Katyn Massacre is a big problem for Russians. Those people in that plane are killed in the worst moment for Russia, in the moment when Russia have big influence in Georgia and Kyrgyztan.

Georgian Opposition Threatens to Repeat Kyrgyz Uprising (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18581)

US-NATO War Plan Undermined? Kyrgyzstan Upheaval Endangers US Route to Afghanistan (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18561)

Great Power Rivalry in Central Asia: Russia Sends Paratroopers to its Airbase in Kyrgyzstan (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18564)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:14:20 am
The meeting was supposed to solidify Russian/Polish relations and the Katlyn massacre was to be addressed. Someone did not want these relations.

This is similar to JFK/Kruschev collaboration undermining Gehlen and the fake cold war.

But the banker I believe was the main target.

Why did he go to a political meeting?

More:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/06/AR2010040604925.html
http://euobserver.com/9/29820
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Okinawa on April 10, 2010, 05:14:53 am
Tupolev's Tu-154 http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=376 (http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=376)
 
Tupolev's Tu-154 tri-jet remains the standard medium range airliner on domestic flights in Russia and other states of the former Soviet Union and to a lesser extent in eastern Europe and Iran.

The Tu-154 was developed to replace the turbojet powered Tupolev Tu-104, plus the An-10 and Il-18 turboprops. Design criteria in replacing these three relatively diverse aircraft included the ability to operate from gravel or packed earth airfields, to be able to fly at high altitudes above most Soviet Union air traffic, and good field performance. To meet these aims the initial Tu-154 design featured three Kuznetsov (now KKBM) NK-8 turbofans (which also powered the larger, longer range Il-62) giving a relatively good thrust to weight ratio, triple bogie main undercarriage units which retract into wing pods and a rear engine T-tail configuration.

The Tu-154 first flew on October 4 1968. The first production example was delivered to Aeroflot in early 1971, although regular commercial service did not begin until February 1972.

Three Kuznetsov powered variants of the Tu-154 were built, the initial Tu-154, the improved Tu-154A with more powerful engines and a higher max takeoff weight, and the Tu-154B with a further increased max takeoff weight. Tu-154S is a freighter version of the Tu-154B.

Current production is of the Tu-154M, which first flew in 1982. The major change introduced on the M was the far more economical, quieter and reliable Soloviev (now Aviadvigatel) turbofans. Low rate production continues. Meanwhile the proposed Tu-154M-2 with two PS-90A turbofans remains unbuilt.


Tupolev Tu-154 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154)
The Tupolev Tu-154 (Russian: Туполев Ту-154) (NATO reporting name Careless) is a Soviet medium-range trijet airliner designed in the mid 1960s. One of the notable civilian aircraft of its era, the Tu-154 has been the mainstay 'workhorse' of Soviet airlines for several decades, servicing well over a sixth of the world's landmass and carrying about half of the passengers flown by Aeroflot and all its subsidiaries over that period (137.5 million per year or 243.8 billion passenger kilometres in 1990). The aircraft has been exported and operated by about 17 non-Russian airlines, as well as a number of non-Russian Air Forces. It remains the standard airliner for domestic routes across Russia and other states of the former Soviet Union (CIS).

With a cruising speed of 975 km/h, the Tu-154 is one of the fastest civilian aircraft in operation and has a range of 5280 kilometers. Capable of departing and arriving on unpaved and gravel airfields, it often operates in the extreme Arctic conditions of Russia's northern territories, where airports can be very basic. With a service life of 45,000 hours (18,000 cycles), but capable of 80,000 hours with upgrades, the aircraft is expected to continue in operation until 2016, although noise restrictions have seen services to western Europe and other areas restricted in recent years.

On 10 April 2010, a Tupolev 154 carrying the Polish President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, and central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek crashed upon landing at Smolensk-North air base in Russia killing (As of 4/10/2010 4:00 am, US Mountain Time) all of the 132 passengers.


Tupolev 154 http://www.flightlevel350.com/Tupolev_TU-154_aircraft_facts.html (http://www.flightlevel350.com/Tupolev_TU-154_aircraft_facts.html)
The Tupolev Tu-154 (NATO reporting name Careless) is a Russian medium-range trijet airliner. It remains the standard airliner for domestic routes in Russia and other states of the former Soviet Union and to a lesser extent in eastern Europe and Iran.

The Tu-154 was developed fom the twin-engined Tupolev Tu-134 to replace the jet-powered Tupolev Tu-104, plus the Antonov An-10 and Ilyushin Il-18 turboprops. It is sometimes called the "Tu-134 with everything thrice." It is designed to operate from austere gravel airfields, to be able to fly at high altitudes above most Soviet Union air traffic, and for takeoff performance.

Design features
Its construction is sturdy with 14 big low-pressure tires enabling it to land on snow-covered, unpaved runways without sustaining serious damage. Initially it had three rear-mounted Kuznetsov NK-8-2 jet engines, arranged like the engines on the Boeing 727, giving it a relatively good thrust-to-weight ratio. It has triple bogie main undercarriage units which retract into wing pods, and a T-tail empennage. These features make Tu-154 a reliable and economical workhorse. Close to 1000 have been built with requests even today for resumption of production.

Statistically, the Tu-154 has one of the poorest safety records. However, Tupolev 154's chequered safety record owes more to errors than technical problems. For individuals used to Boeing or Airbus airliners, the cabin of the Tu-154 can seem cramped. The impression is of an oval interior with a lower ceiling than is common on western airliners.

The Aeroflot Tu154 is arranged with 3x3 seating, with even less legroom than the most tightly packed budget US airlines. In order to stand upright it is necessary to fold down the next seat forward. The underseat space is dominated by a large round bar, making it impractical to place much of anything under the seat in front of you. The overhead bin is too small for much other than coats and purses. One should plan luggage carefully bearing these facts in mind.

Variants
Many variants of this versatile airliner have been built. Apart from the normal differences between weights and powerplants, the Tu-154 even has a couple of completely esoterically fuelled versions! Like its western counterpart, the Boeing 727, many of the Tu-154s in service have been hush-kitted, and some converted to freighters.

Tu-154 / Tu-154A / Tu-154B
The Tu-154 entered service with Aeroflot in 1972. Three variants, all powered by Kuznetsov, have been built. The initial Tu-154, the heavier Tu-154A with more powerful engines, and the Tu-154B with a further increase in maximum takeoff weight. Tu-154S is a freighter version of the Tu-154B.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Kilika on April 10, 2010, 05:19:16 am
So the question is who is going to step in to replace these people? Now you got a whole new set of people that are running that country, overnight.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:19:24 am
Just some reference to the Yalta Conference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference

The Yalta Conference, sometimes called the Crimea Conference and codenamed the Argonaut Conference, was the February 4–11, 1945 wartime meeting of the heads of government of the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union—President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and General Secretary Joseph Stalin, respectively—for the purpose of discussing Europe's postwar reorganization. Mainly, it was intended to discuss the re-establishment of the nations of war-torn Europe.

The conference convened in the Livadia Palace near Yalta, the Crimea. It was the second of three wartime conferences among the Big Three (Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin). It had been preceded by the Tehran Conference in 1943, and it was followed by the Potsdam Conference which was attended by Harry S. Truman in place of the late Roosevelt; and Clement Attlee who attended in place of Churchill.

Poland was the first item on the Soviet agenda. Stalin stated that "[f]or the Soviet government, the question of Poland was one of honor" and security because Poland had served as a historical corridor for forces attempting to invade Russia.[6] In addition, Stalin stated regarding history that "because the Russians had greatly sinned against Poland", "the Soviet government was trying to atone for those sins."[6] Stalin concluded that "Poland must be strong" and that "the Soviet Union is interested in the creation of a mighty, free and independent Poland." Accordingly, Stalin stipulated that Polish government-in-exile demands were not negotiable: the Soviet Union would keep the territory of eastern Poland they had already annexed in 1939, and Poland was to be compensated for that by extending its Western borders at the expense of Germany. Comporting with his prior statement, Stalin promised free elections in Poland despite the Soviet sponsored provisional government recently installed by him in Polish territories occupied by the Red Army.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:20:08 am
So the question is who is going to step in to replace these people? Now you got a whole new set of people that are running that country, overnight.

it is called "decapitation Strategy" used by imperialist regimes for thousands of years
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:26:38 am
Poland’s central bank’s Slawomir Skrzypek & P.M. Donald Tusk against joining the Euro!
http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/2009/02/05/polands-central-banks-slawomir-skrzypek-pm-donald-tusk-against-joining-the-euro
By Amarendra Bhushan for CEOWORLD Magazine Updated:February 5, 2009


Since the beginning of the financial crisis, the zloty has lost about one-third of its value against stable currencies. This has created a painful situation not only for the Polish budget, but also for thousands of families who have taken out credit in euro or Swiss francs to buy apartments. If someone bought an apartment last year for 300,000 zloty (64,500 euro) with credit in Swiss francs, the real price that they are paying now is 425,000 zloty (91,300 euro), even with lowered interest rates. As such, this pushing back the entrance date for entering the euro zone is just hurting Poland more – the country should incorporate a stable currency as soon as possible, not the ‘wild and exotic’ zloty.

Europe should be really interested in Poland’s particular example and that the UK and other would like to consult with Polish economists.

Arguing against the euro because it deprives national states of “policy instruments” (meddling with short-term interest rates, and other such social-engineering games) is like arguing against hunting because it prevents animals from killing people. The only sensible economic argument against the euro is that is that it arbitrarily restrains individual choices. Individual preferences is what economics is about.

Currencies across Eastern Europe tumbled, Romania cut interest rates and a ratings agency warned of risks facing Hungary on Wednesday as the impact of global recession intensified in the region.  Poland, the European Union’s largest former communist member, ruled out intervening to rescue its plunging currency for fear of squandering precious foreign exchange reserves at a time of economic crisis.

The Polish zloty has recorded a dramatic drop in relation to the main currencies and is nearing its lowest rate since 2004. It now stands at around 4.56 in respect of the euro, 3.54 to the US dollar and 3.10 to the Swiss franc. The drop is being caused by more reluctance on the part of investors to bring capital to Poland and according to some analysts, part of the problem might be caused by speculation.

Meanwhile head of Poland’s central bank Sławomir Skrzypek said that the sinking zloty was also the result of the perception that this was a rising market; The second cause are the fears of investors on euro and dollar markets, so they withdraw capital among others from Poland. There is also less money coming in from our emigrants in Britain and Ireland, because of the difficulties with employment there. And there is the weakening export, said the Central Bank chief.

Whereas Poland’s central bank’s president Slawomir Skrzypek reiterated Thursday that there’s no need to intervene on the foreign exchange market to stop the zloty’s slide. “any intervention talk or discussion about what zloty level would trigger central bank intervention “would weaken the zloty even further. the central bank has all the necessary tools to defend the zloty if and when needed, such as foreign currency reserves. under current conditions, joining the Exchange Rate Mechanism ERM2 “would encourage more speculation on the zloty. ERM2 “would trigger constant interventions on the forex market.”

“I don’t think that euro adoption is a cure for everything” Skrzypek said. In January, the central bank’s Monetary Policy Council cut key rates by 75 basis points, to 4.25%.

The Polish government aims to adopt the euro in 2012. That would mean it has to be euro-ready in 2011 and has to join the EMR2 mechanism by the mid-2009. In order to meet the 2012 euro target date Poland must enter the eurozone’s required Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERMII) in the first half of 2009.

In another news Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk has said the country’s planned adoption of the Euro will depend on the stabilisation of international finance markets. The country had been due to join the ERM this half year in preparation for full eurozone membership in 2012. Candidate countries must keep their currencies within the a 15% plus or minus trading range of the euro for two years before they can join the eurozone.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk on Wednesday said his government could delay its 2012 target for the adoption of the euro currency should the global financial crisis pose risks to the Polish currency or financial system.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:27:47 am
MESSAGE TO THE REBELLION: IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE EURO, WE WILL DECAPITATE YOU
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:31:50 am
4.25% interest rates?

we have had 0% for a while.

too much anti-keynesian economics going on over there!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:32:58 am
expect a new "pro-euro" regime to take over!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 10, 2010, 05:35:17 am
MESSAGE TO THE REBELLION: IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE EURO, WE WILL DECAPITATE YOU

And they did.

Good point Sane.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 10, 2010, 05:38:33 am
I think its a little early to completely exonerate the Russians just yet.  Besides they are going to exonerate themselves iminently.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:43:44 am
Slawomir Skrzypek: Neutralising zero credit growth
http://www.ft.com/reports/poland-democracy
By Jan Cienski

Published: June 3 2009 19:22 | Last updated: June 3 2009 19:22

Interview with Slawomir Skrzypek, governor of the National Bank of Poland
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:45:27 am
He gave a fricking presentation on the adoption of the euro...

A Case for Rapid Euro Adoption
http://www.oenb.at/de/img/skrzypek_091102_tcm14-143577.pdf
Sławomir Skrzypek
The Governor of the National Bank of Poland

CONCLUSION:

In the case of rapid euro adoption we can experience “a short-term gain and a long-term pain”.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:47:24 am
I think its a little early to completely exonerate the Russians just yet.  Besides they are going to exonerate themselves iminently.

they have two options: expose the truth or comply with NWO to hide the truth. my guess is that they will get paid off with food/energy/precious metals to STFU.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:48:55 am
BTW how is the euro market doing on the news of a possible pro-euro polish regime being initiated?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 10, 2010, 05:52:16 am
What about the twin brother?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:54:50 am
Poland diffused every external threat to their currency in lightspeed, countering every attempt to pump and dump them. They were a clear and present threat to worldwide financial depression. Looks like illuminati banksters felt, they had to be stopped!

This was the move that sealed their fate:


UPDATE 2-Poland intervenes to curb zloty, sets precedent
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE63816K20100409?type=marketsNews
Fri Apr 9, 2010 10:32am EDT
By Marcin Goettig and Dagmara Leszkowicz

* Central bank in first zloty intervention since 2000 float
* Govt says it fully supports move, shares c.bank concern
* Zloty falls 0.5 pct, but analysts say uptrend could resume

WARSAW, April 9 (Reuters) - Poland's central bank sold zlotys on Friday, surprising markets with its first intervention since introducing a free float in 2000 as it sought to temper the surging currency's impact on exports and the wider economy.

The central bank said in a statement it had bought "some currencies" on the market around Friday. It gave no other details, but a Warsaw-based dealer said he believed the central bank bought about 40-50 million euros for zlotys.

The action, which the government said it backed fully, drove the zloty down 0.5 percent against the euro, though economists said the currency might strengthen again.

The European Union's biggest ex-communist member, Poland is the only country in the bloc to have avoided recession last year and currency investors have taken note.

Before Friday's move, the zloty had gained 6 percent against the euro in the year so far and was near a 16-month high.

"This is a battle with our own success because the zloty's rise in the last three months is a result of the large demand for Polish bonds from abroad, as well as privatisation inflows," said Rafal Benecki, senior economist at ING Bank.

The country's robust growth prospects stand in stark contrast to a number of European countries, notably peripherals such as Greece or Spain.

Poland's debt levels are also well below the EU average, making Polish debt attractive to investors.


FINMIN STAMP OF APPROVAL

"This is definitely a beneficial move. It's a factor that the market needs to take into account in its analysis. We fully agree with the central bank's policy on that matter," Deputy Finance Minister Dominik Radziwill told Reuters by telephone.

He said the ministry shared the central bank's concern over the zloty's strength.

At 1305 GMT, the zloty was at 3.8720/50 per euro, sharply weaker than 3.8340 earlier on Friday.

The currency's strength has prompted concern that Poland could pay an economic price as zloty gains have made exports less competitive.

But some analysts doubt the central bank will be able to halt the zloty's rise.

"We remain confident in the medium-term uptrend in the zloty," said Koon Chow, FX strategist at Barclays Capital. "We think the central bank wants to slow the pace of zloty appreciation so as not to imperil the cautious cyclical recovery."

Chow said this kind of strategy was employed in other emerging market economies and there were good reasons for authorities not to try to weaken the currency too much either.

A bout of currency weakness could stoke inflation and affect Poland's external debt position.

(Additional reporting by Kuba Jaworowksi and Pawel Sobczak, writing by Karolina Slowikowska; editing by John Stonestreet)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:55:36 am
What about the twin brother?

wait, is this some plot for the movie HITMAN or is there really a twin?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 10, 2010, 05:58:33 am
Many of Poland's political and military elite appear to have lost their lives in the accident, including Poland’s the last president in exile Ryszard Kaczorowski, former defence minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski, head of the Presidential Chancellery Wladyslaw Stasiak, presidential spokesman Pawel Wypych, Secretary of State Mariusz Handzlik, head of the Law and Justice party in parliament Przemyslaw Gosiewski, MP Zbigniew Wassermann and Bishop Tadeusz Płoski.

From www.thenews.pl

R.I.P
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 10, 2010, 05:59:25 am
Yes, the President has/had a twin brother, quite alive, the Prime Minister.  They starred in a movie together as children.  Both were members of the "Law and  Justice" Party.

Undoubtedly, people will rally behind the brother.

Relations between Russia and Poland will likely sour.

Everything else, I don't know.

The Russians will never believe they were responsible for Katyn.  They were.

The Poles will likely never forgive them.  For this, neither, unless they truly were completely innocent, but I would say all bets are off, just yet.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:00:43 am
This article should send shivers down your spine...

10 DAYS AGO!



Goldman Sachs To Enter Poland Market
http://www.americanbankingnews.com/2010/03/29/goldman-sachs-nyse-gs-to-enter-poland-market/
March 29th, 2010


Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS) has announced that it will be seeking to open a branch in Warsaw, as the Polish government prepares to offer record share offerings this year, according to company Spokeswoman Monika Schaller in a statement on Friday.

Credit Suisse Group of Zurich announced in January that it would be opening a brokerage in Warsaw this year after closing its Warsaw-based stock-dealing business in 2003.

“The government has a very ambitious plan to make Warsaw a financial hub for the region and expects foreign banks to establish a local presence,” Marek Gul, who heads Credit Suisse’s business in Warsaw, said in an interview. “Investment banks that aren’t yet here want to get in.”

Poland’s national government plans to sell ownership stakes in its energy, insurance, chemical and phone companies to raise $10 billion to finance the company’s widening budget deficit.

Companies such as Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse stand to make significant revenue from advisory work related to the offerings.

Poland was the only country in the European Union to avoid a recession during the financial crisis. The Warsaw Stock Exchange has also seen a tripling in the total value of listed companies since 2003.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 10, 2010, 06:01:05 am
According to Poland’s constitution, on the death of a president which in office, the second highest ranking politician takes over as head of state, in this case this is Speaker of Parliament Bronislaw Komorowski. Poland’s public television station TVP is reporting that on the death of Poland’s head of state, a date for presidential elections must be called within two weeks and take place no later than 60 days.

From www.thenews.pl
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:02:12 am
According to Poland’s constitution, on the death of a president which in office, the second highest ranking politician takes over as head of state, in this case this is Speaker of Parliament Bronislaw Komorowski. Poland’s public television station TVP is reporting that on the death of Poland’s head of state, a date for presidential elections must be called within two weeks and take place no later than 60 days.

From www.thenews.pl

watch for goldman sachs to be bribing front runners.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 10, 2010, 06:04:48 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaros%C5%82aw_Kaczy%C5%84ski

Jaroslaw Kaczynkski, former Prime Minister, twin brother of now-dead Polish president.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 10, 2010, 06:06:01 am
The ageing Tupolev Tu-154, which crashed Saturday morning in western Russia killing President Lech Kaczynski and many others had recently undergone thorough mechanical overhaul, reports Polish Radio.

From www.thenews.pl
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:09:28 am
Yes, the President has/had a twin brother, quite alive, the Prime Minister.  They starred in a movie together as children.  Both were members of the "Law and  Justice" Party.

Undoubtedly, people will rally behind the brother.

Relations between Russia and Poland will likely sour.

Everything else, I don't know.

The Russians will never believe they were responsible for Katyn.  They were.

The Poles will likely never forgive them.  For this, neither, unless they truly were completely innocent, but I would say all bets are off, just yet.

Katyn is a side issue, Poland was a clear and present threat to global recession and one world currency.

EVERYBODY LOST IN WWII, RUSSIA LOST OVER 10 MILLION CIVILIANS SECOND ONLY TO CHINA!

DRESDEN LOST 800,000 IN 24 HOURS! THIS IS NOT ABOUT WWII! CIA OPENLY PROVOKES THESE OLD WOUNDS FOR MANIPULATING MID TO LOW LEVEL IRRATIONAL BEUROCRATS. PUTIN AND THE POLISH ELITE ARE/WERE NOT IRRATIONAL MID LEVEL BEUROCRATS!

Poland was openly denying the possibility of a full bankster takeover of all of Europe.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:10:17 am
The ageing Tupolev Tu-154, which crashed Saturday morning in western Russia killing President Lech Kaczynski and many others had recently undergone thorough mechanical overhaul, reports Polish Radio.

From www.thenews.pl

Did they add some Ptech hardware?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:13:30 am
More on Goldman Sachs recent decision to infiltrate Poland 2 weeks ago:
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/goldman-seeks-piece-of-10-billion-polish-pie/
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 10, 2010, 06:18:55 am
Russian media carried claims that the plane's crew were at fault for the crash.

"The pilot was advised to land in Minsk, but decided to land in Smolensk," said Andrei Yevseyenkov, a Smolensk regional government spokesman .


From BBC
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: larsonstdoc on April 10, 2010, 06:27:05 am
Check out this from the Prison Planet Index.  It mentions the leaders of Poland, and of course Brzezenski and his meddling with the borders of Russia.  Don't forget the proposed missile shields.  ALSO DON'T FORGET THAT BRZEZINSKI WAS BORN IN WARSAW, POLAND.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=94752.0;wap2

THE OBAMA DECEPTION HITS POLISH MEDIA,  PRESIDENCY

Eckhart Tolle:
I used Google translate.. Heres the link

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com%2Fnews%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26ct2%3Dus%252F0_0_s_0_0_t%26usg%3DAFQjCNHRVXcciT-Qz9igXRee7uDE73v7Dw%26cid%3D0%26ei%3DCenGSdDiDoaaMr7jvdIC%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwiadomosci.onet.pl%252F1938157%252C12%252Cbracia_kaczynscy_okresleni_jako_agenci_i_faszystowscy_dziwacy%252Citem.html&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

Here Original Link in polish
http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/1938157,12,bracia_kaczynscy_okresleni_jako_agenci_i_faszystowscy_dziwacy,item.html









"Brothers Kaczynski referred to as "agents" and "Fascist dziwacy"
Bracia Kaczyńscy określeni jako "agenci" i "faszystowscy dziwacy

Przemysław Henzel/Onet.pl/20.03.2009 16:30


In an address by Lech and Jaroslaw Kaczynski have died sharp words - they were, along with several other politicians from Central and Eastern Europe, referred to as "fascist dziwaków" and "agents of the International Monetary Fund and NATO." Opinię taką wyraził amerykański historyk i dziennikarz Webster Tarpley w filmie dokumentalnym "The Obama Deception". Expressed the opinion that the American journalist and historian Webster Tarpley in the film documentary "The Obama Deception."

 "The Obama Deception" is the latest controversial film American journalist Alex Jones, whose axis is an attempt to demonstrate that the United States has not ruled the president, but acting under the disguise "oligarchy" and Barack Obama is not only a puppet in the hands of military-industrial complex, but beguiler zwodzący the empty promises of the Americans, of which there is no intention to discharge.

The film appears in a number of people who share with their viewers think about the United States and its internal and foreign policies, on the screen, you can see, among others byłego gubernatora stanu Minnesota Jessego Venturę, rappera-komentatora politycznego KRS-One czy właśnie Webstera Tarpleya. the state of Minnesota, former Governor Jesse Ventura, a political commentator-rapper KRS-One and the Webster Tarpley.

In the opinion of the film director, and Tarpley, installing anti-missile shield in Eastern Europe used tactics "okrążania" Russia. Dowodem na to ma być fakt,że w administracji Obamy funkcję sekretarza obrony sprawuje mianowany jeszcze przez Busha gen. Robert Gates. The proof of this is the fact that the administration function Obamy secretary of defense has yet by the Bush appointed Gen. Robert Gates.


 Webster Tarpley. - The result of policies based on continuous "mixing" next to the border of Russia, along with "faszystowskimi dziwakami (English fascist creeps)", "agents" of the International Monetary Fund and NATO, such as in Ukraine, Yushchenko, Saakashvili of Georgia, or, or you bliźniacy Kaczynski of Poland or this jumble of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, which means that you are associated with these "gangsterami" who may decide to call the war, may be an outbreak of the conflict, which certainly will become the third world war - evaluate Webster Tarpley.

This is even worse from a policy of neo-conservatives from Bush and Cheney policy, because they never Move as far as Brzezinski, Soros other people who "manage" Obama - he adds. Kontrowersyjne słowa padają w 47. Contentious words fall in 47 minucie filmu. minute film.

Tarpley controversial historian and journalist, famous for its left-wing beliefs and the belief in conspiracy theories, which in his opinion, discover the truth about the true nature of world politics.

(NWO). According to him, for the attacks of 11 September 2001, is facing U.S. military complex and the CIA, is the policy of the U.S. Wall Street and big corporations, and the aim is to create a Washington Anglo-American New World Order (NWO).


Portal Onet.pl was contacted by the Chancellery of the President on the controversial words that fall on the head of state. Kancelaria poinformowała jednak, że nie zapadła jeszcze decyzja, czy słowa, które padły na temat prezydenta RP w filmie, zostaną przez nią skomentowane. However, the law firm advised that it was not yet decide whether the words that have died on the president of Poland in the film, that it would react. Czekamy na odpowiedź Kancelarii. We wait for a response from the Registry.

Outer Haven:
I'm from my Poland and, after reading some of the comments to that news post, all I have to say is: my country is full of idiots...  :'(

Basically, almost everyone was babbling how Tarpley was an evil communist, which is ludicrous.

Although that website is part of the mainstream media controlled by the former communists, and fortunately there is a lot of alternative media, also, in Poland.

admin:
Can you possibly write me a full and clear translation of this article? I would love to write a story about this.

Many thanks.

Paul.

Outer Haven:
I've done it. Excuse me for my grammar and stylistic errors!

Kaczyński twins labeled as "agents" and "fascist creeps"

Some strong words have been directed at Lech and Jarosław Kaczyński -- they have been, along with several others politicians from mid-eastern Europe, described as "fascist creeps" and "agents of IMF and NATO". This is the opinion of the American historian and journalist Webster Tarpley, expressed in the documentary titled "The Obama Deception".

"The Obama Deception" is the latest film of the controversial American journalist Alex Jones, and its main point is the attempt to establish that the United States is not run by the President, but by a secretive "oligarchy", and that Barack Obama is not merely a puppet of the Military-Industrial complex, but also a crook that deceives the American people with his empty promises, of which he has no intention to fulfil.

Several guests make an appearance in the film, and they share their views on the United States and its domestic and foreign policies; you can see, among others, former governor of Minnesota Jesse Ventura, rapper-political commentator KRS-One, as well as Webster Tarpley himself.

The film implies that Barack Obama will be continuing the anti-missile system program, the elements of which would be placed in Poland and in the Chech Republic. In the film's director's opinion -- as well as Tarpley's own -- the purpose of the installment of the anti-missile system in mid-eastern Europe is to "encircle" Russia. A supposed proof of this is the fact that in the Obama administration the position of the defense secretary remains to be held by general Robert Gates, who has been appointed already by Bush.

The result of a policy, that subsists in continued "meddling" around Russia's borders, along with "fascists creeps", "agents" of IMF and NATO, like Yuschenko from Ukraine, Saakashvili from Georgia, those Kaczyński twins from Poland, or that whole band from Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, that means that you are associated with these "gangsters" that might prove decisive in starting a war, could be the break of a conflict that would certainly lead into world war three - analyses Tarpley.

This is worse than the neocons. Bush and Cheney would have never gone as far as Brzeziński, Soros and others who are "managing" Obama - he adds. The controversial words are spoken 46 minutes into the film.

Tarpley is a controversial historian and journalist who is famous for his left wing views and for advocating conspiracy theories, which in his opinion uncover the true nature of global politics. According to him, the attacks of September 11th, 2001 were orchestrated by the Military-Industrial complex and the CIA; the policy of USA is shaped by Wall Street and big corporations, and the goal of Washington is to create an Anglo-American New World Order (NWO).

The website Onet.pl has contacted the presidential office regarding those controversial words, that were spoken of the head of the country. The office, however, has told us that there has not yet been made a decision as for wether or not the words regarding the president of Poland will be commented by it. We are waiting for a reply.

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Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:30:17 am
Poland also is a clear and present danger to the global warming fraud. They are almost 100% dependent  on coal and Rothschild's greenpeace has been trying to get green nazis to infiltrate for years:



Polish coal plant tops EU's "dirty thirty" list
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5324DR20090403
Michael Szabo
LONDON
Fri Apr 3, 2009 11:52am EDT

 

Greenpeace activists paint a slogan reading ''Stop CO2'' on the one of the smoke stacks at the Belchatow power plant in Rogowiec near Belchatow, about 177 km (110 miles) from Warsaw July 3, 2007.

LONDON (Reuters) - Poland is home once again to Europe's dirtiest power plant, but German utilities still owned 11 of the 30 most polluting facilities in the European Union in 2008, preliminary EU data showed.

Green Business

Poland's Belchatow coal plant, run by state-owned utility BOT Elektrownia, spewed out the most climate-warming carbon dioxide (CO2) of any EU installation last year, pumping the equivalent of 30.9 million metric tons into the atmosphere.

This amount, comparable to the total greenhouse gas emissions of Croatia, was nine percent more than the plant emitted in 2007 and bucked a trend which saw overall EU industrial emissions drop last year.

The "dirty thirty," a term first coined by green group WWF in 2005, belched some 387.5 million metric tons of CO2 in 2008, down 2.2 percent from 2007.

Analysts said emissions from all EU heavy industry fell by around 4-5 percent last year due to lower industrial production caused the global economic downturn and power plants switching to burning natural gas over more carbon-intensive coal.

The top emitter in 2007 -- Kraftwerk Niederaussem, owned by Germany's RWE -- saw its emissions drop by 20 percent to 24.9 million, the largest drop in the group but not enough to keep it out of second place.

RWE owns 4 of the top 7 polluting plants.

The 11 dirtiest German facilities emitted 165.9 million metric tons of CO2 last year, down 3.9 percent from 172.7 million metric tons in 2007.

Analysts said the drop in German industrial emissions was largely due to a switch by utilities to burning bituminous coal from more carbon-intensive lignite, also knows as brown coal.

Britain's top five polluters, including the dirty thirty's fourth-ranked Drax power station, saw their total emissions rise by 2.6 percent to 60.1 million metric tons.

The British government last week said overall UK emissions fell by 2 percent in 2008.

The thirty's largest net gain also came from Poland's Belchatow, up 2.5 million metric tons in 2008, while the largest percentage rise, 13.5 percent, occurred at German steelmaker ThyssenKrupp's plant in Duisburg.

The preliminary data, a first glimpse into EU industrial emissions for 2008, is widely watched by participants in the EU's emissions trading scheme, the 27-nation bloc's flagship weapon in its battle against climate change.

Scientists warn that rising atmospheric CO2 levels will cause global temperatures to increase, which in turn could trigger widespread disease, famine, flooding and drought.

The $90 billion emissions trading scheme caps EU industrial CO2 emissions, then gives a corresponding number of permits to participants. Those companies that seek to emit over their quota must buy permits from those who have made emissions cuts.

Last year marked the first year that the European Commission avoided handing out an excess of emissions permits to industry.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:48:37 am
Check out this from the Prison Planet Index.  It mentions the leaders of Poland, and of course Brzezenski and his meddling with the borders of Russia.  Don't forget the proposed missile shields.  ALSO DON'T FORGET THAT BRZEZINSKI WAS BORN IN WARSAW, POLAND.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=94752.0;wap2

THE OBAMA DECEPTION HITS POLISH MEDIA,  PRESIDENCY

Eckhart Tolle:
I used Google translate.. Heres the link


I am not sure about the president (UPDATE: I cannot find any supporting info on them being CFR/Trilateral, can anyone else?), but the head of the central bank was 100% against one world currency and against short term reactions to monetary policy. because of him Poland was the only country to avoid the planned global recession. Poland was/is the greatest threat to illuminazi banksters attempted coup of all of europe.

Also the former pres and many other top poles were no fan of Obama and the fake hope:

Obama Peace Prize: “Who, What? So Fast?”
http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2009/10/09/lech-walesa-on-obama-peace-prize-who-what-so-fast/tab/article/
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 06:55:40 am
Missile Shield no longer needed in Poland ?

Seems the Polish President is more trouble than he is worth, and a decision has been taken that on balance its better to remove the Polish President - after completing and signing SALT Treaty.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:57:51 am
Missile Shield no longer needed in Poland ?

Seems the Polish President is more trouble than he is worth, and a decision has been taken that on balance its better to remove the Polish President - after completing SALT Treaty.


like JFK and Lincoln, it was the monetary policy and elimination of debt slavery that did in these players.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 07:03:19 am
like JFK and Lincoln, it was the monetary policy and elimination of debt slavery that did in these players.

I agree that the ultimate factor that motivates our evil masters is allways the money . .
because money is power.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:12:08 am
This could have been a new "Hitler-Stalin" pact.

Also, some insight into neutralizing any possible catholic church blowback by planned targeting of Ratzinger (benedict arnold of the church).



Twin Pillars of Populism
The Kaczynski Twins Are Taking Poland by Storm

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,378418,00.html
By Susanne Amann in Warsaw 10/06/2005

The two vocal populists are almost impossible to tell apart, but Lech and Jaroslaw Kaczynski are rocketing to the top of Poland's political establishment. Soon, both the prime minister's office as well as the presidency may be in their hands. And they have a plan for what to do with their power.
DPA

Meet the Kaczynski brothers.

All of Poland knows the two small, roundish -- and virtually identical -- men. For weeks, even months, they have been smiling down from campaign posters and parading through the nation's political talk shows. Yet for all their media presence, one question occupies most of the electorate: How does one tell these two apart? After all, Lech and Jaroslaw Kaczynski are identical twins -- and the only differences are a tiny birthmark on one of their noses and the slightly unkempt hair of the other.

The two brothers have become shooting stars in Polish politics. They have both managed to cut through the political apathy of the population and have neatly divided it into enthusiastic devotees or vehement detractors. The two brothers, as it turns out, are not much for middle-of-the-road vapidity. On the contrary. The two are populists -- and they peddle their Catholic-nationalist worldview energetically and with little consideration for their political opponents.

And they are wildly successful. On Sept. 25, the party they both lead, the Law and Order Party (PiS), won the country's parliamentary elections meaning Poland's next prime minister will come from their ranks. This Sunday, the Poles go to the polls again -- this time to cast their ballots for the position of president. Lech Kaczynski, current mayor of Warsaw, is one of the leading candidates. Their successes are being viewed with some trepidation by their neighbors.

Modern day Hitler-Stalin pact

Recently, for example, the two of them attacked a planned natural gas pipeline agreed to by German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and Russian President Vladimir Putin by comparing it with the 1939 Hitler-Stalin pact, which resulted in the partition of Poland. Lech, who is currently the mayor of Warsaw, also made headlines early this year by banning the gay and lesbian parade in Poland's capital. He said the event was damaging to Polish youth.

Mostly, though, the brothers' are characterized by a deep mistrust of Russia and Germany. They were born in 1949 in the rubble of an almost completely destroyed Warsaw. They grew up with the results of the Nazi occupation and under the subsequent hegemony of the Soviet Union. Even now, they are still warning of the danger of allowing Germany too great an influence in the European Union. They are also deeply mistrustful of that group of Germans expelled from Poland following World War II, suspecting them of wanting to someday retake parts of western Poland. Indeed, the two have already threatened that Germany should be made to pay reparations to Poland for World War II damage. For Warsaw alone, Lech has calculated a sum between $30 and 40 billion.

REUTERS

Here's Jaroslaw, who led his Law and Order Party to victors in Sept. parliamentary elections.

The brothers, both trained in law, have been politically active since they went to university together. They were part of the underground and belonged to the Workers' Defense Committee (KOR), a group of academics where many of the Solidarity intellectuals got their start. In 1980, in fact, they were in Gdansk for the founding of Solidarity. That only Lech Kaczynski did a stint in prison in 1981 was pure luck: The police thought that the existence of a second Kaczynski with the same birth date as the first was a typo.


It didn't take long for the two -- known as the "ducks" for a last name that recalls the Polish word for "duck", if not for their physical stature -- to become part of Lech Walesa's inner circle. Following the fall of the communist government in 1989, they both took high positions in the new government, but they quickly butted heads with Walesa. He refused their demand to rigorously cleanse the secret service and military of left-over cadres.

Getting rid of the communists

Which is one reason for their grandiose comeback. Current candidate for president Lech Kaczynski discovered -- as justice minister under former Prime Minister Jerzy Buzek and then as mayor of Warsaw -- just how popular the fight against corruption and lawlessness is among Poles. Even now, many secret service and army members who were active under the communist regime are still in their old positions. Communist structures are still intact, and corruption and cronyism are part of the day-to-day.

REUTERS

And here's Lech, mayor of Warsaw and a candidate for president in Sunday's elections.

And that, if the Kaczynski brothers get their way, will all change. They want to see a more Catholic and more traditional Poland protected by increased presidential authority and restrictions on former communists holding public office. Lech even wants to see much of his political crusade -- including laws infringing on the rights of homosexuals and other minorities -- written into the country's constitution. The twins want to see an unconditional national Catholicism.

It is a development that many analysts connect with the recent death of the Polish Pope John Paul II. The long, painful decline of the pope was accompanied by a new wave of spirituality and a reawakened interest in Catholicism -- especially among younger Poles. And the guidelines being followed by the Kaczynski brothers are also those of the deceased pope: anti-abortion, a traditional role for women and a strong emphasis on community. Of course, such a platform hasn't hindered Lech -- as mayor of Warsaw -- to call for all the homeless in the Polish capital to be resettled in container slums on the edge of the city so they no longer clutter up the center. Hardly a charitable position.

A dash of nationalism with a helping of Euro-skepticism

The two want nothing less than a "Fourth Republic," a new Poland -- a vision reflected in the name of their Law and Order Party. With its mixture of nationalism, populism and Euro-skepticism, the party was already wildly successful in the 2002 local elections. Lech Kaczynski was voted in to the Warsaw city hall with a large majority and -- on Sept. 25 -- the party came out tops in the parliamentary elections with 27 percent of the vote. Coalition negotiations with the liberal Civic Platform (PO) -- which took 24 percent of the vote -- are ongoing.

Jaroslaw's decision to forgo the office of prime minister in favor of the less-well-known Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz surprised many observers, though. It is assumed that the move is intended to improve his brother's chances of winning Sunday's presidential elections. He would then -- with both the prime minister and president coming from his party -- pull the strings in the background. Both he and his brother have said they don't plan on having both offices in their family at the same time.

It's a tactic that seems to be working. For weeks, the PO candidate Donald Tusk has been leading Lech in the Poles by as much as 10 percentage points. Now, that lead has shrunk to just 37 percent for Tusk against 33 percent for Lech. And even though coalition talks between the PO and his own Law and Order Party are continuing, Lech misses no opportunity to portray Tusk as a heartless fiscal liberal and himself as the voice of social justice.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski has affirmed that -- even should his brother lose on Sunday -- he will stay in the background and allow Marcinkiewicz to become prime minister. Many Poles, though, don't believe him. They assume that a final decision as to who will be Poland's next prime minister will only come after the presidential election.

And with both of them potentially leading Poland, telling them apart may be that much more important. Here's another difference between the two: Lech is married and has a daughter. Jaroslaw, on the other hand, still lives at home with his mother and his cats.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:20:37 am
for reference on the last "hitler-stalin pact", see soviet story.
http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/28771192
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:25:49 am
didn't the US puppet and the Russian puppet just meet?


President Obama, Russian President Medvedev sign START treaty to reduce nuclear weapons
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/04/08/2010-04-08_president_obama_russian_president_medvedev_sign_nuke_treaty.html
BY Michael Mcauliff  DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Thursday, April 8th 2010, 7:33 AM


New pact against rebellious nations against Brzezinski's planned Cold War II?



(http://cdn.wn.com/ph/img/72/fa/0cd3250fd17c1cf86e398e74f33b-grande.jpg)
"Dude, I am serious, the illuminati hate those twins"
"No way, Putin hates them too"

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 07:26:57 am
didn't the US puppet and the Russian puppet just meet?

Yes they had a photo opportunity called SALT Treaty.

Running Heroin into Russia,
Denying Russia a warm water port at Sevastopol in the Ukraine,
Attacking Russia through Georgia 8/8,
Setting up Rogue Drug Running state called Kosovo,
its a very long list....

Why they even want to put missiles in Romania -
All to protect us from Evil Iran for those readers still drinking the Koolaide.

I hope Alex can get Webster Tarpley to speak about this latest assassination.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: foreverfree on April 10, 2010, 07:44:35 am
Which one of these is not like the others?  Which one of these just doesn't belong?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264964/BREAKING-NEWS-Plane-carrying-Polish-president-crashes-Russia.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264964/BREAKING-NEWS-Plane-carrying-Polish-president-crashes-Russia.html)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/10/article-1264964-0913B958000005DC-639_634x286.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/10/article-1264964-0913E3FD000005DC-69_634x334.jpg)
(http://www.iranians.com/93.jpg)

 ::)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:45:05 am
Yes they had a photo opportunity called SALT Treaty.

Running Heroin into Russia,
denying Russia a warm water port (Sevastopol in the Ukraine ),
attacking Russia through Georgia,
setting up Rogue Drug Running state called Kosovo,
its a long list....

Why they even want to put missiles in Romania -
All to protect us from Evil Iran for those readers still drinking the Koolaide.

I hope Alex can get Webster Tarpley to speak about this latest assassination.


Tarpley is the man for this crap.

They were populist leaders and they were assassinated...

"How long shall they kill our prophets
While we stand aside and look"

-Bob Marley
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 07:45:50 am
So is the peppering from when the Air-2-Air Missile detonated ?
 ;D

kinda reminds me of when F-16s engaged United Flight 93 over Shanksville and shot it down.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:05:11 am
News releases from the Polish Embassy in Washington D.C...

http://www.bgben.co.uk/indexuk.asp


Smolensk Plane Crash Devastates Poland Army  
The passengers list from Poland's government plane which went down near Smolenks Saturday, killing all aboard, show that top commanders of the country's armed forces are among the dead. In addition to President Lech Kaczynski, First Lady, Maria Kaczynska, and many of the country's top politicians and clergy, the list shows the names of WP Gen. Franciszek Gagor - Head of the General Staff of the Polish Army, and Maj....

Kaczynski's Katyn Trip to Russia Problematic till Last Moment  
Polish President Lech Kaczynski's trip to the site of the Katyn Massacre in Russia on which his plane crashed was problematic until the last minute almost causing a diplomatic scandal. On February 3, 2010, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin invited his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk to remember jointly the 70th year since the Katyn Massacre in which Soviet agents slaughtered some 20 000 Polish military officers in 1940. Tusk is a political opponent of Kaczynski; in fact, the two faced one another in the 2005 Presidential elections won by the latter. ...

Sixth Airplane Accident Proves Fatal for Lech Kaczynski  
Poland's President Lech Kaczynski had five airplane accidents before Saturday's plane crash near Smolensk in which he and many senior Polish officials perished. The Russian agency RIA Novosti recounts about Kaczynski's airplane misfortunes in the last couple of years. It emphasizes the incident on December 2, 2008, when Kaczynski's plane Tu-154 broke in Mongolia, and he had to fly to Tokyo, Japan, with a charter flight. ...

Poland to Hold Early Presidential Elections after Kaczynski Death  
Poland is going to hold early presidential elections after the death of President Lech Kaczynski, who perished in a plane crash near Smolensk, Russia. Bronislaw Komorowski, Parliament Speaker and presidential candidate of Poland's ruling party, has automatically become the country's acting President after Lech Kaczynski died. A Polish government spokesperson cited by the BBC has confirmed that early presidential elections will be held....

Bulgaria PM Mourns 'Exceptional Poland Statesman Kaczynski'  
Bulgaria's Prime Minister, Boyko Borisov, sent a condolence letter to his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk, in occasion of the tragic death of President Lech Kaczynski. Kaczynski, who was due to visit Smolensk to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, in which Soviet troops killed thousands of Poles, died Saturday when the government TU-154 plane crashed near the airport of the Russian city of Smolensk. "We mourn along with friendly Poland," Borisov told Bulgarian media Saturday. ...

Orthodox Bulgaria Marks Sunday of St. Thomas  
Bulgaria marks on April 10, the Sunday after Easter or Sunday of St. Thomas, also known as Second Sunday or Antipascha. Historically, this day in the early Church was the day that the newly-baptized Christians removed their robes and entered once again into the life of this world. ...

Deceased Polish President Kaczynski Wanted Closer Ties with Bulgaria  
Poland's President Lech Kaczynski, who perished Saturday in a plane crash near Smolensk, had one official meeting with the Bulgarian head of state. Kaczynski met with Bulgaria's President Georgi Parvanov in Warsaw, Poland, exactly two years ago, on April 8, 2008. During their meeting, Poland's President Kaczynski pointed out his country's relations with Bulgaria should be closer than they are, and that Bulgaria and Poland are not among the richest countries in the EU because of their turbulent and unfavorable history, especially during the communist era. ...

Bad Weather, Crew Mistake Blamed for Poland Air Force 1 Crash  
The most likely causes for the Tupolev 154 plane crash, reportedly, killing Poland's President, Lech Kaczynski, his wife Maria and a number of top officials are bad weather and crew mistake. The information was reported Saturday by the Bulgarian National Radio, BNR. The Smolensk Regional Governor, Sergey Antufiev, told Russian TV that no one had survived the crash. ...

Parliament Head Komorowski Becomes Poland President after Kaczynski Death  
Bronislaw Komorowski, Parliament Speaker and presidential candidate of Poland's ruling party, is becoming the country's acting President after Lech Kaczynski perished in a plane crash. Under the Polish Constitution, the post of Acting President is temporary. If the President is unable to execute his/her powers and duties, a predetermined person will become Acting President. ...

Polish Air Force 1 Crashed Heading for Katyn Massacre Remembrance  
The plane that crashed carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski and 86 others near Smolensk was taking the passengers to mark the Katyn massacre near the town. Kaczynski was due to visit Smolensk to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when Soviet troops killed thousands of Poles. The Katyn massacre, also known as the Katyn Forest massacre (Polish: zbrodnia katynska, 'Katyn crime'), was a mass murder of thousands of Polish prisoners of war (primarily military officers), intellectuals, policemen, and other public servants by the Soviet NKVD, based on a proposal from Lavrentiy Beria to execute all members of the Polish Officer Corps....

Poland Army, Central Bank Head Perish Perish Together with President Kaczynski  
A number of senior Polish officials have died together with President Lech Kaczynski as the Polish government plane crashed in Russia on way to a Katyn Massacre remembrance. The casualties include a number of officials from the Presidential Administration, as well as Polish Central Bank Governor Slawomir Skrzypek, WP gen. Franciszek Gagor - Head of the General Staff of the Polish Army, Polish Ombudsman Janusz Kochanowski. ...

List of Top Polish Officials on Kaczynski Delegation Who Perished in Smolensk Plane Crash  
Below is a list of the high ranking Polish officials who were aboard the plane carrying the Polish delegation to the remembrance of the Katyn Massacre led by President Lech Kaczynski, which crashed near Smolensk in Russia. According to preliminary information, all 87 persons on board of the Polish government plane died. Lech Kaczynski - President of Poland ...

Who Is Who: Deceased Poland President Lech Kaczynski  
Lech Kaczynski was born in Warsaw in 1949, the son of an engineer who served as a soldier of the Armia Krajowa in World War II. Kaczynski has an identical twin brother, who is the former Prime Minister of Poland and co-founder (2001) and current Chairman of the Law and Justice party, Jaroslaw Kaczynski. The brothers first shot to fame at the age of 12 as stars in the film "Two boys who stole the moon". ...

Polish 'Air Force 1' Crashes with President Kaczynski on Board  
A plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed near the airport of the Russian city of Smolensk, the BBC reported Saturday. Russian media is cited with infomration that 87 people were killed in the crash, and there are no survivors. According to the Russian news agency ITAR-TASS, and the Russian Ministry of Emergency Situations, the plane crashed 10:56 am Moscow time....
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:09:12 am
I am sure this was an low level mistake, but at least someone low level was running psyops five years ago:



Warsaw Mayor mistaken for Unabomber in Israeli newspaper
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1358633/posts
2005-03-08, 11:19


The prestigious Israeli daily The Jerusalem mistook the mayor of Warsaw for an American terrorist.

The daily published an interview with Lech Kaczynski who recently visited Israel. As an illustration to the interview the editors selected a photograph of Theodor Kaczynski, the infamous Unabomber who from 1978 to 1996 sent bomb-letters to universities, airlines and computer magazines killing 3 and wounding 20 people.

Lech Kaczynski stated that he did not feel offended although he could not understand how such a mistake could take place.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ConcordeWarrior on April 10, 2010, 08:17:34 am
This is not a civil aircraft and not a civil flight. None of the usual arrangements are applicable.

Any civilian operator would have a rule of two missed approaches and divert, no questions asked. The airforce mentality of 'complete the mission whatever it takes' is likely to be a contributing factor here.

+ 0.5 visibility

Rest In Peace all on board
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: jofortruth on April 10, 2010, 08:17:58 am
Polish Senior Figures Killed:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm

Quote
National leader:
President Lech Kaczynski and wife Maria

Other politicians:
Wladyslaw Stasiak chief of the president's chancellery;
Aleksander Szczyglo chief of the National Security Office;
Slawomir Skrzypek National Bank of Poland chairman;
Jerzy Szmajdzinski deputy speaker of the lower house;
Andrzej Kremer Foreign Ministry's undersecretary of state;
Stanislaw Komorowski deputy minister of national defence;
Przemyslaw Gosiewski Law and Justice party deputy chair;

Military chief:
Franciszek Gagor chief of the General Staff

Cultural figures:
Andrzej Przewoznik head of Poland's Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites;
Tomasz Merta chief historical conservator
 
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 08:23:28 am
The Kaczynski’s were travelling with several senior government figures on a trip to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn forest massacre, in which thousands of Poles were executed by Soviet secret police.

(Times)

See Also
Katyn massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre



In late 2007 and early 2008, several Russian newspapers, including Rossiyskaya Gazeta, Komsomolskaya Pravda and Nezavisimaya Gazeta printed stories that implicated the Nazis for the crime, spurring concern that this was done with the tacit approval of the Kremlin.


Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: jofortruth on April 10, 2010, 08:25:04 am
Parliament Head Bronislaw Komorowski Becomes Poland Acting President after Kaczynski Death:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronisław_Komorowski
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115087
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 08:28:36 am
No I do not believe the Russian State Media

Russia Today - shifts blame - Accident Claim -
http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-04-10/poland-aircraft-poor-condition.html

Airplanes used by Polish authorities are mostly old Soviet-made craft in poor technical condition, Polish mass media note.

The tragic death of top officials flying to Russia to commemorate the victims of the Katyn mass killing prompted the media in Poland to once again talk about the dilapidated state of the aircraft used by the presidential administration.

The Tupolev-154 craft used in this flight was made in 1990, and had been in use for almost 20 years. It had encountered technical problems earlier. In 2009, both presidential Tu-154s failed to function, and Lech Kaczynski had to take a regular passenger flight to New York. One of the planes underwent a long-term repair in Russia, but broke down just after returning to Warsaw. The other Tu-154M was in the repair workshop until November last year.

In December 2008, the presidential plane was disabled by -20C temperatures in Mongolia during a visit, and the Polish head of state had to take a charter to Tokyo, arriving eight hours later than scheduled.

In October 2008, Kaczynski had to book a charter for Brussels. At the time, the head of Prime Minister Tusk’s administration refused the president his right to use the plane to attend an EU summit. A charter cost around US$60,000.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ConcordeWarrior on April 10, 2010, 08:30:17 am
Facts:
aircraft involved: Tu-154M reg 101 (http://russianplanes.net/REGINFO/3143)
maintenance status: not known yet
airfield: Смоленск-Северный (military, north of Smolensk, 2,500m rwy)
conditions: low visibility
other: three aboarted landings a fourth attempted landing underway

Possible causes:
low visibility combined with psychological stress for the crew caused by VIP pax

The real cause will be finally found by the investigators.

RIP victims.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 08:37:18 am
70th aniversary of the murder of 22,000 Poles by Russia

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Katyn_massacre_1.jpg)


Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: agentbluescreen on April 10, 2010, 08:39:25 am
Human error caused crash of Polish president's airplane in Russia http://en.rian.ru/world/20100410/158507526.html (http://en.rian.ru/world/20100410/158507526.html)
© REUTERS/ Handout
Related News
13:0410/04/2010

Human error was most likely to blame for the crash of Polish President Lech Kaczynski's airplane in western Russia in which 132 people including the president died, a Russian security source said.

"A mistake by the crew during landing maneuvers has supposedly caused the crash," the source in the regional security bodies, who refused to be identified, told RIA Novosti.

There have been no official suggestions of what had caused the crash.

MOSCOW, April 10 (RIA Novosti)

Anybody know who the jet's operators/owners where?  Wouldn't it be a Polish airline?

Seems like a lot of speculation here, airplanes still do crash sometimes.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 08:49:55 am
Anybody know who the jet's operators/owners where?  Wouldn't it be a Polish airline?

Seems like a lot of speculation here, airplanes still do crash sometimes.

Well if you want to believe the Russian State media (http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=166259.msg988170#msg988170), the same media busy burying the massacre of 22,000 Polish Officers in the woods feel free.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:57:25 am
Anybody know who the jet's operators/owners where?  Wouldn't it be a Polish airline?

Seems like a lot of speculation here, airplanes still do crash sometimes.

bwaaahahaha

airplanes do crash sometimes.

wow, nice one.

this was the decapitation of the entire heads of government, banking, and military for the only european nation unaffected by the goldman/illuminati manufactured recession.

the odds must be worse than the risk management company running the 7/7 drill on 7/7.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: lamourlady on April 10, 2010, 09:00:23 am
70th aniversary of the murder of 22,000 Poles by Russia

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Katyn_massacre_1.jpg)




Is that a mass grave that has been dug up?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Libertarian Perspective on April 10, 2010, 09:01:20 am
I think it is possible that Russia is the fall guy for all the "conspiracy theories" why the Plane carrying the Polish president and staff crashed. By opening old wounds between Poland and Russia the old tactic of divide and conquer is employed to make sure that the russian and polish people don't get along.

Not to mention, diverting the flak away from the European Union and NATO who might be the real culprits of the crash since Kaczynski was "JFK'd" due to his opposition of the Euro and the european common market.

This is also the worst place that such a crash could have taken place, the polish people fiercely hate Russia, I am actually surprised it hasn't led to a declaration of war.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:06:48 am
I think it is possible that Russia is the fall guy for all the "conspiracy theories" why the Plane carrying the Polish president and staff crashed. By opening old wounds between Poland and Russia the old tactic of divide and conquer is employed to make sure that the russian and polish people don't get along.

Not to mention, diverting the flak away from the European Union and NATO who might be the real culprits of the crash since Kaczynski was "JFK'd" due to his opposition of the Euro and the european common market.

This is also the worst place that such a crash could have taken place, the polish people fiercely hate Russia, I am actually surprised it hasn't led to a declaration of war.

Exactly the same thing I am thinking. But I also think Putin is being paid off in some way to STFU because he could easily and accurately expose what happened.

But just like the OK City false flag, they picked the 70th anniversary to target Russia. That is almost too convenient and 22,000 person massacre is nothing compared to what Germany did and the fact that the President was looking to get $10s of Billions in reparations from NATO's Germany.

This is a Gehlen/Dulles operation all the way.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Optimus on April 10, 2010, 09:24:00 am
So what does anyone know about Poland's Parliament Speaker Bronislaw Komorowski? Is this guy pro-euro? He is also a presidential candidate in Poland's upcoming election.




Poland To Hold Presidential Elections Before July
http://www.huliq.com/1/92576/poland-hold-presidential-elections-july

Poland is required by its constitution to hold presidential elections no later than June 20th of 2010 after the country's president Lech Kaczynski along with other government officials lost his life in a plane crash near Smolensk on his way to commemorate Katyn Massacre.

Originally Polish elections were set for this Autumn. However, since the country is without a president the constitution requires a new date to be announced withing two weeks of president's death. The elections must occur within 60 days.

This sets the date of the new and early presidential elections in Poland no later than June 20th.

According to the constitution the head of the Parliament takes over as the acting president. This morning the speaker of the Polish Parliament Bronislaw Komorowski took over as the acting president of Poland. He will carry on this responsibility until the new elections. Komorowski is a candidate who runs in the election.

Written by Armen Hareyan
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:27:32 am
Sixth Airplane Accident Proves Fatal for Lech Kaczynski
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115093
World | April 10, 2010, Saturday


Poland's President Kaczynski had several airplane misfortunes before Satursday's plane crash in which he lost his life. Photo by EPA/BGNES

Poland’s President Lech Kaczynski had five airplane accidents before Saturday’s plane crash near Smolensk in which he and many senior Polish officials perished.

The Russian agency RIA Novosti recounts about Kaczynski’s airplane misfortunes in the last couple of years.

It emphasizes the incident on December 2, 2008, when Kaczynski’s plane Tu-154 broke in Mongolia, and he had to fly to Tokyo, Japan, with a charter flight.

On December 3, 2008, the Polish cabinet decided to purchase new government plane but PM Tusk remarked that he would not pay for a luxury aircraft for Kaczynski but for a safe one.

On December 5, 2008, the plane in which Kaczynski was flying over South Korea encountered powerful turbulence. It is after this accident that Kaczynski remarked, „Every airplane flight is connected with a certain risk but the duties of the President are connected with a very serious risk in general and this is why the President has to travel all the time.”

On January 14, 2009, because of a thick ice cover, Kaczynski’s plane left late for his meeting with former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko.

In September 2009, both Polish government planes were out of order, so President Kaczynski had to travel to New York City with a commercial flight.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:30:02 am
Kaczynski's Katyn Trip to Russia Problematic till Last Moment
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115094
World | April 10, 2010, Saturday


Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk (C) and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin (L) attend ceremonies at the Polish Military Cemetery in Katyn, Russia, commemorating the 70th anniversary of the 1940 Katyn Massacre, 07 April 2010. Photo by EPA/BGNES

Polish President Lech Kaczynski’s trip to the site of the Katyn Massacre in Russia on which his plane crashed was problematic until the last minute almost causing a diplomatic scandal.

On February 3, 2010, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin invited his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk to remember jointly the 70th year since the Katyn Massacre in which Soviet agents slaughtered some 20 000 Polish military officers in 1940. Tusk is a political opponent of Kaczynski; in fact, the two faced one another in the 2005 Presidential elections won by the latter.

Putin and Tusk attended a joint remembrance ceremony of the Katyn Massacre on April 7, 2010, as was previously agreed.

President Kaczynski had decided to attend the Katyn Massacre site near Smolensk three days later, on April 10, 2010, together with a group of other senior officials, historians, and war veterans.

Until the last moment, however, the details of his trip were hanging in the air, as the Russian Foreign Ministry claimed it had not been notified properly about Kaczynski’s intention to visit the Katyn Massacre site.

“Poland’s Foreign Ministry confirmed to us that President Kaczynski plans to visit Katyn on 10 April in conjunction with the 70th anniversary of the tragedy. However, no formal, written information as to how the Polish side imagines this project has been received. As a result, we cannot start procedures for the preparation of the visit by the Polish president. We hope that official information will reach us soon,” stated on March 15, 2010, Russian Ambassador to Poland, Vladimir Grinin, as cited by Polish English-language site thenews.pl.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: carlee on April 10, 2010, 09:30:43 am
MOSCOW – Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military and civilian leaders died on Saturday when the presidential plane crashed as it came in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia, killing 96, officials said.

Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev, which was taking the president, his wife and staff to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre in Katyn forest of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.

The crash devastated the upper echelons of Poland's political and military establishments. On board were the army chief of staff, national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, the Polish foreign ministry said.

Although initial signs pointed to an accident with no indication of foul play, the death of a Polish president and much of the Polish state and defense establishment in Russia en route to commemorating one of the saddest events in Poland's long, complicated history with Russia, was laden with tragic irony.

Reflecting the grave sensibilities of the crash to relations between the two countries, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin personally assumed charge of the investigation. He was due in Smolensk later Saturday, where he would meet Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, who was flying in from Warsaw.

"This is unbelievable — this tragic, cursed Katyn," Kaczynski's predecessor, Aleksander Kwasniewski, said on TVN24 television.

It is "a cursed place, horrible symbolism," he said. "It's hard to believe. You get chills down your spine."

Andrei Yevseyenkov, spokesman for the Smolensk regional government, said Russian dispatchers asked the crew to divert from the military airport in North Smolensk and land instead in Minsk, the capital of neighboring Belarus, or in Moscow because of the fog.

While traffic controllers generally have the final word in whether it is safe for a plane to land, they can and do leave it to the pilots' discretion.

"The crew made an independent decision to land in Smolensk," Yevseyenkov said in televised remarks.

Russia's Emergency Ministry said there were 96 dead, 88 of whom were part of the Polish state delegation. Poland's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Piotr Paszkowski, said there were 89 people on the passenger list but one person had not shown up for the roughly 1 1/2-hour flight from Warsaw's main airport.

Some of the people on board were relatives of those slain in the Katyn massacre. Also among the victims was Anna Walentynowicz, whose firing in August 1980 from the Lenin Shipyards in Gdansk sparked a workers' strike that spurred the eventual creation of the Solidarity freedom movement. She went on to be a prominent member.

"This is a great tragedy, a great shock to us all," former president and Solidarity leader Lech Walesa said.

The deaths were not expected to directly affect the functioning of Polish government: Poland's president is commander in chief of its armed forces but the position's domestic duties are chiefly symbolic. Most top government ministers were not aboard the plane.

According to the Aviation Safety Network, there have been 66 crashes involving Tu-154s, including six in the past five years. The Russian carrier Aeroflot recently withdrew its Tu-154 fleet from service.

Poland has long discussed replacing the planes that carry the country's leaders but said they lacked the funds.

The presidential plane was fully overhauled in December, the general director of the Aviakor aviation maintenance plant in Samara, Russia told Rossiya-24. The plant repaired the plane's three engines, retrofitted electronic and navigation equipment and updated the interior, Alexei Gusev said. He said there could be no doubts that the plane was flightworthy.

The plane tilted to the left before crashing, eyewitness Slawomir Sliwinski told state news channel Rossiya-24. He said there were two loud explosions when the aircraft hit the ground.

Rossiya-24 showed footage from the crash site, with pieces of the plane scattered widely amid leafless trees and small fires burning in woods shrouded with fog. A tail fin with the red and white national colors of Poland stuck up from the debris.

Polish-Russian relations had been improving of late after being poisoned for decades over the Katyn massacre of some 22,000 Polish officers.

Russia never has formally apologized for the murders but Putin's decision to attend a memorial ceremony earlier this week in the forest near Katyn was seen as a gesture of goodwill toward reconciliation. Kaczynski wasn't invited to that event. Putin, as prime minister, had invited his Polish counterpart, Tusk.

Putin and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev both called Tusk to express their condolences and they promised to work closely with Poland in investigating the crash. Tusk said they had been the first to offer condolences.

"On this difficult day the people of Russia stand with the Polish people," Medvedev said, according to the Kremlin press service.

Putin told Tusk that he would keep him fully briefed on the investigation, his spokesman said.

Rossiya-24 showed hundreds of people around the Katyn monument, many holding Polish flags, some weeping.

Poland's parliament speaker, the acting president, declared a week of national mourning. Tusk called for two minutes of silence at noon (1000GMT) Sunday.

"The contemporary world has not seen such a tragedy," he said.

In Warsaw, Tusk also called an extraordinary meeting of his Cabinet and the national flag was lowered to half-staff at the presidential palace, where several thousand people gathered to lay flowers and light candles. Black ribbons appeared in some windows in the capital.

Kaczynski, 60, was the twin brother of Poland's opposition leader, former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski. Kaczynski's wife, Maria, was an economist. They had a daughter, Marta, and two granddaughters.

Lech Kaczynski became president in December 2005 after defeating Tusk in that year's presidential vote.

The nationalist conservative had said he would seek a second term in presidential elections this fall. He was expected to face an uphill struggle against Parliament speaker Bronislaw Komorowski, the candidate of Tusk's governing Civic Platform party.

The constitution says the parliament speaker announce early elections within 14 days of the president's death. The vote must be held within another 60 days.

Poland, a nation of 38 million people, is by far the largest of the 10 formerly communist countries that have joined the European Union in recent years.

Last year, Poland was the only EU nation to avoid recession and posted economic growth of 1.7 percent.

It has become a firm U.S. ally in the region since the fall of communism — a stance that crosses party lines.

The country sent troops to the U.S.-led war in Iraq and recently boosted its contingent in Afghanistan to some 2,600 soldiers.

U.S. Patriot missiles are expected to be deployed in Poland this year. That was a Polish condition for a 2008 deal — backed by both Kaczynski and Tusk — to host long-range missile defense interceptors.

The deal, which was struck by the Bush administration, angered Russia and was later reconfigured under President Barack Obama's administration.

Under the Obama plan, Poland would host a different type of missile defense interceptors as part of a more mobile system and at a later date, probably not until 2018.

Kaczynski is the first serving Polish leader to die since exiled World War II-era leader Gen. Wladyslaw Sikorski in a plane crash off Gibraltar in 1943.

In the village of Gorzno, in northern Poland, the streets were largely empty as people stayed home to watch television.

"It is very symbolic that they were flying to pay homage to so many murdered Poles," said resident Waleria Gess, 73.

"I worry because so many clever and decent people were killed," said high school student Pawel Kwas, 17. "I am afraid we may have problems in the future to find equally talented politicians."

_____
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100410/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_plane_crash
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:32:21 am
Parliament Head Komorowski Becomes Poland President after Kaczynski Death
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115087
World | April 10, 2010, Saturday


Polish Parliament Speaker Bronislaw Komorowski (L) stands next to PM Donald Tusk (C) and Foreign Minister Sikorski (R) as he celebrates on March 27, 2010 in Warsaw after Poland's center-right governing party chose him as its presidential candidate. Photo

Bronislaw Komorowski, Parliament Speaker and presidential candidate of Poland’s ruling party, is becoming the country’s acting President after Lech Kaczynski perished in a plane crash.

Under the Polish Constitution, the post of Acting President is temporary. If the President is unable to execute his/her powers and duties, a predetermined person will become Acting President.

In the case of a vacancy because of death of the President, the Acting President becomes the head of state until the next election, but without the title of President, and retaining their previous office. All the powers of the President are assumed by the Acting President except for the right to dissolve the Parliament.

The first person in line to become Acting President in Poland is the Marshal of the Sejm, the next is the Marshal of the Senate.

Acting Marshal of the Sejm, i.e. Parliament Speaker, Bronislaw Komorowski was chosen at the end of March 2010 as the presidential candidate of his party to run in the 2010 Presidential Elections against incumbent Lech Kaczynski.

The pro-EU Civic Platform party of Prime Minister Donald Tusk chose Komorowski over Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski in Poland's first primary modeled along US lines at the very end of March 2010. 58-year-old Komorowski, a former anti-communist dissident, won 68,5% of the votes to Sikorski's 31.5%.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:34:28 am
This was a complete coup d'etat:



List of Top Polish Officials on Kaczynski Delegation Who Perished in Smolensk Plane Crash
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115083
World | April 10, 2010, Saturday


A file picture dated October 24, 2005 shows Polish President Lech Kaczynski (R) and his wife Maria during a ceremony at which the official results of the presidential elections were announced in Warsaw. Photo by BGNES

Below is a list of the high ranking Polish officials who were aboard the plane carrying the Polish delegation to the remembrance of the Katyn Massacre led by President Lech Kaczynski, which crashed near Smolensk in Russia.

According to preliminary information, all 87 persons on board of the Polish government plane died.

Lech Kaczyński – President of Poland

Maria Kaczyńska – Wife of Lech Kaczynski

Ryszard Kaczorowski - Ryszard Kaczorowski, Honorary GCMG (born 26 November 1919) is a Polish Statesman. Between 1989 and 1990 he served as the last President of Poland in exile. Resigned his post following Poland's regaining independence from the Soviet sphere of influence and election of Lech Wałęsa as the first democratically-elected president of Poland since World War II. He also passed the presidential insignia to Wałęsa, thus ending the 45-years long episode of the Polish government in exile.

Jerzy Szmajdziński - a Vice-Marshal of Polish Sejm and a former Polish minister of defence. Candidate for President of Poland in presidential elections 2010

Władysław Stasiak – Head of the President’s Office

Aleksander Szczygło - Head of the National Security Bureau

Paweł Wypych - Secretary of State in the Chancellery of the President of Poland.

Mariusz Handzlik – Undersecretary at the President’s Administration

Andrzej Kremer – Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs

WP gen. Franciszek Gągor – Head of the General Staff of the Polish Army

Andrzej Przewoźnik - Vice-President and Secretary of the Commission for the Commemorations of the Victims of Katyn Massacre of the Prime Minister (1994-1998).

Grzeogrz Dolniak – Member of the Sejm

Przemysław Gosiewski – Member of the Sejm

Zbigniew Wassermann – Member of the Sejm

Janusz Kochanowski – Polish Ombudsman

Sławomir Skrzypek – Polish Central Bank Governor

Janusz Kurtyka – President of the Polish Institute of National Remembrance

Bishop Tadeusz Płoski - Polish Roman Catholic priest, dean of the riverside military units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Administration, Dean of the Government Protection Bureau, Field Bishop of the Polish Army
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 09:38:02 am
I bet Georgian President Saakashvili is back to chewing his Tie.  :o  ::)

(http://www.parliament.ge/files/1293_23228_757559_16_08_2008_22_08_36_Saakashvili_Tie.jpg)

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 10, 2010, 09:42:34 am
This was a complete coup d'etat:



List of Top Polish Officials on Kaczynski Delegation Who Perished in Smolensk Plane Crash
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115083
World | April 10, 2010, Saturday


A file picture dated October 24, 2005 shows Polish President Lech Kaczynski (R) and his wife Maria during a ceremony at which the official results of the presidential elections were announced in Warsaw. Photo by BGNES

Below is a list of the high ranking Polish officials who were aboard the plane carrying the Polish delegation to the remembrance of the Katyn Massacre led by President Lech Kaczynski, which crashed near Smolensk in Russia.

According to preliminary information, all 87 persons on board of the Polish government plane died.

Lech Kaczyński – President of Poland

Maria Kaczyńska – Wife of Lech Kaczynski

Ryszard Kaczorowski - Ryszard Kaczorowski, Honorary GCMG (born 26 November 1919) is a Polish Statesman. Between 1989 and 1990 he served as the last President of Poland in exile. Resigned his post following Poland's regaining independence from the Soviet sphere of influence and election of Lech Wałęsa as the first democratically-elected president of Poland since World War II. He also passed the presidential insignia to Wałęsa, thus ending the 45-years long episode of the Polish government in exile.

Jerzy Szmajdziński - a Vice-Marshal of Polish Sejm and a former Polish minister of defence. Candidate for President of Poland in presidential elections 2010

Władysław Stasiak – Head of the President’s Office

Aleksander Szczygło - Head of the National Security Bureau

Paweł Wypych - Secretary of State in the Chancellery of the President of Poland.

Mariusz Handzlik – Undersecretary at the President’s Administration

Andrzej Kremer – Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs

WP gen. Franciszek Gągor – Head of the General Staff of the Polish Army

Andrzej Przewoźnik - Vice-President and Secretary of the Commission for the Commemorations of the Victims of Katyn Massacre of the Prime Minister (1994-1998).

Grzeogrz Dolniak – Member of the Sejm

Przemysław Gosiewski – Member of the Sejm

Zbigniew Wassermann – Member of the Sejm

Janusz Kochanowski – Polish Ombudsman

Sławomir Skrzypek – Polish Central Bank Governor

Janusz Kurtyka – President of the Polish Institute of National Remembrance

Bishop Tadeusz Płoski - Polish Roman Catholic priest, dean of the riverside military units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Administration, Dean of the Government Protection Bureau, Field Bishop of the Polish Army

Man, they really cleaned house!

I love how I check Reddit for the news, which just regurgitates the headline, and then I come to PrisonPlanet and they uncover the news that actually happened.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Optimus on April 10, 2010, 09:52:16 am
This is a coup by the globalist/banksters/NATO. They have positioned their puppet into the presidents office by taking out their opposition with this plane "accident".



Poland set to adopt euro convergence plan
http://www.euractiv.com/en/euro/poland-set-to-adopt-euro-convergence-plan
Published: 03 February 2010

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said he expected his government to approve today (3 February) an updated euro convergence plan, shrugging off concerns voiced by the junior coalition partner over the measures proposed.

The cabinet had been expected to approve the plan, a blueprint for eurozone accession which is periodically updated, at Tuesday's weekly meeting but the Peasants' Party (PSL) is unhappy about Tusk's proposal to reform farmers' pensions.

"I hope we will approve the convergence plan tomorrow. Everything indicates we shall," Tusk told a news conference.

Asked about the disagreement with PSL leader Waldemar Pawlak, Tusk said: "I don't think there is conflict in the coalition. Our temperaments are complementary and we understand each other very well, even when we have differing views."

"I think the concerns of PSL over the pension system changes are baseless," he added.

As part of a drive to reduce the government's budget deficit to 3% of gross domestic product by the end of 2012, Tusk has proposed bringing farmers, a privileged group in Poland, into the national pension system. This would require them to make bigger monthly contributions.

With parliamentary elections due in 2011 and opinion polls showing support for PSL hovering around the 5% threshold needed to enter parliament, Pawlak needs to show farmers, his party's base, that he is ready to fight for their interests.

Tusk added that if economic growth came in lower than forecast over the next few years Poland might only manage to bring its deficit down to the 3% of Gross Domestic Product level required under EU rules in 2013, not in 2012.

Last week, the government unveiled a fiscal consolidation plan that would cap budget spending and speed up the sale of state assets in order to check a sharp rise in public debt and to prepare the country for eurozone entry.

Analysts polled by Reuters see Poland, the EU's largest ex-communist country, joining the euro zone in 2014. Government officials have recently said 2015 is a realistic date.

Tusk also announced last week that, contrary to expectations, he would not run in a presidential election due this autumn because he wanted to focus on tackling Poland's economic problems as head of the government.

On Tuesday, Tusk confirmed that his centrist, pro-euro Civic Platform (PO) would probably field either Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski or the speaker of the lower house of parliament, Bronisław Komorowski, as its presidential candidate.

"They each have different assets and I am not going to tell you who is my favourite," Tusk said, adding that he would not impose his own preference on the party.

In Poland, the prime minister and the government hold most power but the president can veto laws and also represents the country on the global stage. The PO wants to unseat President Lech Kaczyński because he has blocked a series of government reforms.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:04:24 am
President’s plane recently underwent overhaul
http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul129175_presidents-plane-recently-underwent-overhaul.html
10.04.2010 13:00

The ageing Tupolev Tu-154, which crashed Saturday morning in western Russia killing President Lech Kaczynski and many others had recently undergone thorough mechanical overhaul, reports Polish Radio.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Piotr Paszkowski says that the cause of the accident is not yet clear.

Eye witnesses say that heavy fog surrounded the airport near Smolensk and the plain attempted to land four times before clipping to the tops of trees and immediately falling to the ground, where it burst into flames.

The airport was closed at the time of the attempted landing with visibility down to less than 500 meters, according to Russian TV reports. The pilot was offered alternative landings at either Moscow or Minsk airports but decided to try and land at Smolensk.

The aircraft was just one kilometre short of the runway when it crashed. (pg)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: IridiumKEPfactor on April 10, 2010, 10:04:38 am
This is a plain as day assassination. I can't even concieve of this being an accident. The leaders that are not going along 100% with the Globalist program have to this was a shot across the bow at them.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: phasma on April 10, 2010, 10:09:43 am
My Local News just said plane was bought down by fog.
yeah right !
ILS?
Auto-pilot?
obviously an accidentally on purp[ose accident.

everyone record store info - and watch the cover up unfold!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Jon W on April 10, 2010, 10:09:49 am
This is a plain as day assassination. I can't even concieve of this being an accident. The leaders that are not going along 100% with the Globalist program have to this was a shot across the bow at them.

The Fact that it crashed on the 5th landing attempt...does not factor in HERE.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Pierce2378 on April 10, 2010, 10:11:57 am
I thought Poland wanted to Join the union for years?  Not understanding the headline here. 
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:16:15 am
This is a coup by the globalist/banksters/NATO. They have positioned their puppet into the presidents office by taking out their opposition with this plane "accident".




Look Out, Poland! Goldman Sachs invades!
March 26, 2010
(http://fortunepostcards.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/buffett_blankfein1.jpg)


http://www.neoows.com/story/10598785

Goldman Sachs is opening up a branch in Warsaw. Why? To make money, of course, those scheming bastards.

The main lure is advisory work for the Polish government, which plans to sell stakes this year in its energy, insurance, chemical and phone companies to raise $10 billion to finance the widening budget deficit. The economy, the only one in the European Union to avoid a recession, and the Warsaw Stock Exchange, where the total value of listed companies has tripled since 2003, are also attractive, bankers said.

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/Tiktaalik/BlankfeinPickens.jpg)

Look out, Warsaw! Soon you'll have the terrible burden of Goldman Sachs bonus money raining down on you, too.

Goldman Joins Race for $10 Billion Polish Asset Sales [Bloomberg]
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:16:40 am
I thought Poland wanted to Join the union for years?  Not understanding the headline here. 

not the euro currency
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Pierce2378 on April 10, 2010, 10:20:47 am
I find it strange that this many high level officials fly on the same flight.  This is unusual right?  Or is this common practice over there?

Okay Euro Currency, gotcha. 
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 10, 2010, 10:21:42 am
Should rename thread to: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not joining EU
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 10, 2010, 10:22:50 am
Which one of these is not like the others?  Which one of these just doesn't belong?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264964/BREAKING-NEWS-Plane-carrying-Polish-president-crashes-Russia.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264964/BREAKING-NEWS-Plane-carrying-Polish-president-crashes-Russia.html)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/10/article-1264964-0913B958000005DC-639_634x286.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/10/article-1264964-0913E3FD000005DC-69_634x334.jpg)
(http://www.iranians.com/93.jpg)

 ::)

Was going to mention the same thing.... Just look @ the size of that wreckage....
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:24:48 am
Should rename thread to: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not joining EU

they are in the EU, they did not join the euro currency

changed title to add money sign
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Juntawatch on April 10, 2010, 10:29:43 am
Just an annexe to the story and the 'Qui Bono' factor, or who benefits, in the larger picture.

The Real course to analyse if someone 'did it', according to the repeating pattern we have witnessed in recent years, is for someone with know-how and knowledge of the markets to check the realtime figures for any Hedgefund activity or 'Put Options' activity on the Airlines Stock-Exchange markets (or however that scenario works), in the run-up to and immediately subsequent to the event.

The Inference is, that High Level elite, are gambling on the safety of Civilian (and other?) Airlines and equally on the safety of Airline Passengers. It has been posted at length on PM forums, a rumourmill story, that such gambling actually exists. I contacted the Serious Organised Crime Agency on this very point a couple weeks ago and they did not try to deny, as would be the manner of any serious investigation agency worth its salt.

With that list of personages, who needed to place bets on the outcome. But I still recommend that THE MARKETS should be monitored by those that understand them and my hint to the Investigative Agencies is: Private Bank Accounts of Leading Global Political Figures should be checked for suspicious activity and the sudden transfers of large amounts of money. This is where the Political Elite may make significant personal financial Gains. The Gamble that they can get clean away with it is on, right! — Possibility!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: carlee on April 10, 2010, 10:32:59 am
Situation Update No. 1
On 10.04.2010 at 11:44 GMT+2

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and up to 131 others traveling with him to commemorate the mass killing of Polish officers during World War Two died on Saturday when his plane crashed on landing in western Russia. "On Saturday, President Kaczynski's Tu-154 airplane crashed when landing near the town of Pechorsk, Smolensk region, in heavy fog," Vladimir Markin, a spokesman for the Russian Prosecutor General's Investigations Committee said. "There were 132 people on board the plane, including the president and his spouse." In a conflicting report, a spokesperson for Russian Emergencies Ministry said there were 96 people on board. "According to the latest information, there were 96 people on board including 88 [from the] official delegation," the Emergencies Ministry spokesperson said. Both sources said there were no survivors. Russia's Rossiya-24 television showed footage of the crash scene showing wreckage of the plane scattered across a field with the airplane's wing raising high like a monument. "The crash to the ground was so strong that the plane burst into small pieces," the Rossiya-24 correspondent at the scene said. Officials said that apart from the presidential couple and the crew, Kaczinski's Soviet-made Tu-154 three-engine mid-range jet plane was carrying an official delegation of senior officials, including the chief of the armed forces general staff and central bank head.

Polish Foreign Ministry press secretary Petr Paszkowski said the plane crashed some 300-400 meters from the runway after catching tops of surrounding trees. A Russian security source told RIA Novosti that "a mistake by the crew during landing maneuvers had supposedly caused the crash." The Russian Prosecutor General's investigations committee later formally opened investigation into the crash. "The investigation is looking into various versions of what happened, including unfavorable weather, human factor, technical malfunctions and others," it said in a statement. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev ordered Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to head a commission looking into the crash and dispatched to the scene Emergencies Minister Sergei Shoigu, and top aviation and investigation officials. The Russian leaders promised a thorough investigation in cooperation with Poland. The Russian Foreign Ministry has promised to aid Polish investigators and specialists in receiving visas to immediately arrive to Smolensk or Moscow. "We are prepared to receive specialists in Smolensk and Moscow. The Russian embassy in Warsaw has been given instructions to provide visas [to the specialists]," a statement on the Foreign Ministry's website reads. Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk has called an emergency government meeting in line with the death of President Kaczynski on Saturday. "All of the Polish ministers are on their way to Warsaw," a spokesman for the government press service said in Warsaw. In line with the president's death, Parliamentary speaker Bronislaw Komorowski has become the acting president in Poland. Tusk is presently on his way to Warsaw from Gdansk. "The premier cried when he learned about the crash of the presidential plane," Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski told Polish Radio Zet.

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?glide=VI-20100410-25636-RUS&cat=dis&lang=eng
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: KazKru on April 10, 2010, 10:38:06 am
As has been touched on by several here, this is so reminiscent of pre WWII and pre WWI type events.  I believe this event might be serious enough to justify Alex doing a special Saturday broadcast, and getting analysts like Webster Tarplay on to comment.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 10, 2010, 10:38:49 am
As has been touched on by several here, this is so reminiscent of pre WWII and pre WWI type events.  I believe this event might be serious enough to justify Alex doing a special Saturday broadcast, and getting analysts like Webster Tarplay on to comment.

I'm also hoping to hear Webster asap
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:42:53 am
Quote
the plane crashed some 300-400 meters from the runway after catching tops of surrounding trees.

Die Harder / Die Hard 2
In fog, controlling the altitude instruments of a commercial aircraft

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkCQ_-Id8zI
(http://www.bo-films.net/boutique_cd/images/Die_Hard_2.gif)

WHAT WAS DONE TO THE PLANE RECENTLY?

WERE PTECH TYPE REMOTE SYSTEMS PUT IN?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:49:16 am
Instrument landing system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system
 
The Localizer station for runway 27R at Hannover Airport in Germany

An instrument landing system (ILS) is a ground-based instrument approach system that provides precision guidance to an aircraft approaching and landing on a runway, using a combination of radio signals and, in many cases, high-intensity lighting arrays to enable a safe landing during instrument meteorological conditions (IMC), such as low ceilings or reduced visibility due to fog, rain, or blowing snow.

Instrument Approach Procedure charts (or approach plates) are published for each ILS approach, providing pilots with the needed information to fly an ILS approach during instrument flight rules (IFR) operations, including the radio frequencies used by the ILS components or navaids and the minimum visibility requirements prescribed for the specific approach.

Radio-navigation aids must keep a certain degree of accuracy (set by international standards of CAST/ICAO); to assure this is the case, flight inspection organizations periodically check critical parameters with properly equipped aircraft to calibrate and certify ILS precision.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:50:10 am
Instrument approach
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_approach
 
Terminal procedures for an ILS approach in the United States. (The disclaimers shown in red in the illustration do not appear on the original approach plate.)

In aviation, an instrument approach or instrument approach procedure (IAP) is a type of air navigation that allows pilots to land an aircraft in reduced visibility (known as instrument meteorological conditions or IMC), or to reach visual conditions permitting a visual landing.

Approaches are classified as either precision or nonprecision, depending on the accuracy and capabilities of the navigational aids (navaids) used. Precision approaches utilize both lateral (localizer) and vertical (glideslope) information. Nonprecision approaches provide lateral course information only.

The publications depicting instrument approach procedures are called Terminal Procedures, but are commonly referred to by pilots as "approach plates". These documents graphically depict the specific procedure to be followed by a pilot for a particular type of approach to a given runway. They depict prescribed altitudes and headings to be flown, as well as obstacles, terrain, and potentially conflicting airspace. In addition, they also list missed approach procedures and commonly-used radio frequencies.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:52:59 am
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/04/10/general-eu-russia-plane-crash_7503495.html?boxes=Homepagebusinessnews

Air Force Gen. Alexander Alyoshin confirmed that the pilot disregarded instructions to fly to another airfield, the Interfax news agency reported.

The Smolensk airfield is not equipped with an instrument landing system to guide planes to the ground.

"It's extraordinary that an aircraft would have attempted four approaches, if that really happened," said William Voss, head of the Flight Safety Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy group based in Alexandria, Virginia. "Normally they abandon the attempt to land after the second attempt."

"There seems to have been a great sense of determination to land at Smolensk," Voss said.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 10:55:45 am
WTF, second time group of polish leaders taken out with plane crash:

Polish Military Plane Crash Kills 20
http://airlineworld.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/polish-military-plane-crash-kills-20/
Published January 24, 2008 CASA-295M
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 11:04:52 am
TEST RUN? check out the pictures, back blows up right at landing.



20 Injured After Tu-154 Plane Crash Lands in Iran
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/403170-tu-154-crash-mashhad-iran.html
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
January 24, 2010

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iran's state TV's website says a Russian-made Iranian passenger plane carrying 157 has crash landed in northeastern Iran injuring at least 20 people.

The website says there is no reports yet available on the possible death toll. It says the private Taban Air plane caught fire upon landing at Mashhad airport.

The report says the plane has been seriously damaged. Iran has about a dozen Soviet-built Tu-154 airliners.

U.S. sanctions prevent Iran from updating its 30-year-old American aircraft and make it difficult to get European spare parts or planes as well. The country has come to rely on Russian aircraft, many of them Soviet-era planes that are harder to get parts for since the fall of the Soviet Union.



Sunday, January 24, 2010
Report: Tu-154M Crash Landing at Mashhad International Airport
http://uskowioniran.blogspot.com/2010/01/report-tu-154m-crash-landing-at-mashhad.html
by Mark Pyruz

Details of the Tu-154M crash landing in Iran are now available.

A Kolavia Tupolev Tu-154M, on behalf of Taban Air, registration RA-85787, performing flight HH-6437 from Isfahan to Mashhad with 157 passengers and 13 crew members aboard, was holding near Mashad due to below minimum visibility, when apparently a passenger became seriously ill. The crew declared an emergency and attempted the ILS approach to Mashhad's runway 31R despite low visibility. Upon touchdown at 07:20L (03:50Z) the aircraft veered temporarily off the runway, the landing gear collapsed, one wing impacted the ground and the aircraft burst into flames. Forty-two people received minor injuries and were taken to local hospitals. The aircraft received substantial damage including the separation of both wings (sheared off at the mount points of the main landing gear struts) and the vertical stabilizer.

The flight had originated in Abadan on Saturday evening (Jan. 23) and was diverted to Isfahan due to poor visibility in Mashhad, with some media in Iran reporting the aircraft may have diverted to Isfahan due to a technical problem. The aircraft departed Isfahan for Mashhad again at 05:35L. MHD ILS CATI minimum visibility is 800m but according to METAR visibility at the time was only 200m due to fog. The cause of the accident is under investigation, however early indications show pilot error.

Iran's Ministry of Health reports that forty-two people were admitted to hospitals. Iranian authorities report no fatalities.

Runway 13L/31R remains closed following the accident. The runway is 3811 meters (12500 feet) long and is equipped with a Category I ILS.

RA-85787 is a Tu-154M owned and operated by Kolavia for Taban Air. Taban Air has seven Tu-154s, of which six are operated by other carriers, including Tajik Air and Kolavia. Iran's Civil Aviation Authority has suspended the Air Operators Certificate (AOC) of Taban Air effectively grounding the airline.

Mashhad International Airport or Shahid Hashemi Nejad Airport (MHD/OIMM) is located in Mashhad, Razavi Khorasan, Iran.

click all photos to enlarge
The Tu-154M was performing services for Iranian carrier Taban Air, although the fuselage colour scheme shows the aircraft is from the fleet of Russian carrier Kolavia. It also carries the name "Surgut" in Cyrillic on the nose, identifying the aircraft as RA-85787.

Images from the scene show the aircraft resting on its fuselage underside, with both wings and the landing-gear torn away. The aircraft has suffered heavy fire damage at the rear, where the aircraft's three engines are mounted, and the vertical fin and horizontal stabiliser are no longer attached. The ruggedness of the Tu-154 design may be credited for the amazing lack of fatalities in this crash landing. Responding emergency crews are also to be commended.

Landing gear on the Tu-154M torn away due to unsurfaced conditions initially encountered upon landing.

Photo of RA-85787 taken last February 2009 above Mehrabad International Airport (THR/OIII). (Photo by Shary, Airliners.net.)

ILS approach Runway 31R. (graphics: AIS Iran)

Map identifying Mashhad International Airport (MHD/OIMM) with approximate final landing position of aircraft. (courtesy Google Earth)

Route of Taban Air flight HH-6437. (courtesy Google Earth)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 11:08:02 am
http://www.flightgear.ru/wiki/index.php/Tu-154B_ABSU


Automatic landing approach

ABSU have an important part of the system, enabling the movement of aircraft on a given path - the navigation calculator and calculator of landing. Despite the current name, any computer on a real plane, of course, no. All calculations are performed by analog means. Note that navigation calculator and calculator of landing can't work simultaneously, so at a time can be included or toggle switch 351, or 352, but not both. The navigation calculator provides regimes AZ-I, AZ-II, NVU, and the calculator of landing - an automatic approach to the ILS, the regimes "Zahod" and "GLISS".

Let's see how ABSU works in the performance approach in the automatic mode. In order to ensure the landing in this mode, the system works as follows equippment:

Navigation receiver Kurs-MP, the first set. The receiver should be set to the desired frequency ILS (445).

The compass system TKS must be properly adjusted, and the HSI (PKP) white needle should be set the right course of landing (102-D) by right handle of instrument.

At PN-5 must be enabled computer landing tumblers 352.

ABSU should be in a stabilizing mode (including tumbler 365, lit "Stab" (363))

Tumblers 354 can be included director of a needle at the ADI (PNP). The automatic entry, they mainly serve to control, but in the director are available when you piloting. To prepare, director of call, you need to perform the same operations with ABSU that call for automatic, but the mode of stabilization is not included (tumblers 365, 367 must be switched off). This will be the trajectory control system, in this case - to the ADI director arrows.

The aircraft may control by ABSU in STAB mode (STAB H, ZK or any navigation mode). Using the automatic approach, you can turn the lamp "ЗАХОД" (353, 129 light board), or after the withdrawal of the aircraft on course, or during the flight to the base leg. In this case, ABSU fulfill the turn to the final leg in the automatic mode, the following algorithm:

If the aircraft has not yet entered the beam of ILS, ABSU deploy the machine in the course of planting, and will begin moving closer to the line of a given path at an angle of about 30 degrees. At this point ABSU will manage the aircraft on signals TKS, the desired angle counted from the arrows on HSI (PNP).

The plane will go down in the beam of ILS, ABSU will begin displaying the aircraft to line defined beam. After enter in the zone of ILS beam, autopilot switches to manage signals from ILS, a signal will be switched off from the compass control.

If the aircraft at the time of pressing the button-lamps "ЗАХОД" (353) have already crossed the glidepath, ABSU will conclude the aircraft landing at the course two coordinated turn.

During the approach, the longitudinal channel may be located in manual mode or in the stabilization of a given pitch angle, or in the "H". If the channel is in the longitudinal mode stability, and aircraft in the landing configuration, possibly auto-flight mode on glidepath "GLISS" (355). Mode is enabled automatically, and the light bulb button 355, when the slat provisions glidepath for an instrument HSI (PNP) (102-H) will be located in the center of the device, signaling to the intersection plane line glidepath. If the regime does not automatically, it can be turned on manually by pressing the lamp 355. When the automatic flight glidepath, light boards "GLISS (137) to cover treatment. The aircraft will perform a maneuver in the vertical plane, fits in glidepath and will continue to decline signals ILS.

During the flight on the glidepath, ABSU will change the settings of controls on autopilot signals radar altimeter RV-5, as well as on a real airplane.

ABSU TU-154 was not designed for automatic landing. At the height of a decision usually 60 m, but not less than 30 meters, automatic flight on ILS signals should be stopped and made the transition to manual piloting, disconnecting the autopilot. In the model, for these purposes, ideal trigger joystick that has already been recommended above.

Speed on the glidepath can be defined on tables in RLE, but for the convenience of a virtual pilot, in a model made tip. Tip is called by clicking on the hotspot on the positioner and stabilizer PB (309). It should be remembered that the tooltip shows the values of velocities (Vr and Vref) for the current configuration of the aircraft, and after deploing flaps, for example, the Vref speed will change.


Autothrottle and GoAround mode

ABSU has autothrottle subsystem. AT only works when the computer landing and should be applied only in the automatic approach.

Inclusion autothrottle made tumblers 373 and 374. After switching on, after about seven seconds, two-light lamp system availability of AT, and the system will move to the "alignment mode". Rolling index rate to 108 turns in the agreed terms and will follow the arrow speed.

The inclusion of the stabilization of the speed begin by pressing "C" (372). The button lamp lights, panel lights up scoreboard regimes "AT" (138). Autothrottle begin to stabilize the air speed, which was at the time of pressing the "C". Change the speed using the wheels of 375, given the speed will be displayed on a movable index of US gauge (108). Deviation of the current air speed of a given index can be controlled by the speed indicator on the device ADI (PKP) (101-B). In this model, there is a tips when use wheel 375.

Autothrottle controls the engines throttle. By default, all three are managed by the system. If necessary, one of the engines can be turned off of automatic control by pressing the lamp 377, 378, 379. Button-bulb engine lights disconnected. If more than one engine shut down, turned off the stabilization of the speed and autothrottle transferred to the alignment, the button lamp turns off the "C" and the board 138.

AT system can be switched off by tumblers 374, or the total autopilot disconnect button. In this model, after AT switching off, all throttles will be driven back from the joystick. This should be borne in mind and put throttle levers in the desired position before disconnecting AT.

If the automatic flight signals ILS (enabled "GLISS") to set the throttle levers to take-off mode, ABSU will begin to perform the automatic go-around. The bank channel will go to the bank stabilization, and the longitudinal channel will begin to control the angle of pitch by the go-around calculator. In the regimes extinguished board "rate", "GLISS", "AT" light boards "UHOD" (151). In real life, except for throttle levers, the go-around regime can include a button on the yoke, the model has this feature is not implemented.

In the "go-around" longitudinal channel ABSU will perform a set height, changing the pitch, depending on the speed and flaps situation. Off mode "go-around" can be the same as any automatic mode ABSU.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 11:12:49 am
http://www.aviationexplorer.com/Tupolev_TU-154_Airliner_Facts_History_Photos.html

TUPOLEV TU-154 RUSSIAN AIRLINER
FACTS HISTORY AND PHOTOS
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: wfy9621 on April 10, 2010, 11:13:34 am
Chilling.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Valerius on April 10, 2010, 11:17:29 am
They said on the news it had recently been retrofitted, but they don't know with what.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 11:18:10 am
Yeah right!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash

Look at all the capos giving the widows envelopes of cash...




European Union   

Jerzy Buzek, the President of the European Parliament, expressed his condolences.

José Manuel Barroso, the President of the European Commission said: "I express my deep condolences to Poland for the passing away of President Kaczyński, his wife and all those with them under such tragic circumstances on their way to mark the 70th anniversary commemoration of the Katyn massacres. I have worked very closely with President Kaczyński, in a spirit of loyalty, and I respected in him a very determined Polish patriot who at the same time was very committed to our European Union and to the values of freedom and solidarity. The European Commission joins me in this moment in the expression of sympathy and tribute."[95]


 NATO   

Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen extended his condolences:

"On behalf of all of NATO, and myself personally, I express my most profound condolences to the people of Poland, and to the families of President and Mrs Kaczynski and all those who have died in this terrible accident. This is a tragedy for them and for Poland. My thoughts are with them today."[47]
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 11:23:45 am
Tu 154 B2 Landing RWY 05R VISUAL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuiF8ui2aqM

TU-154 ILS Approach and Landing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krPZ7BYH9Gs
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Satyagraha on April 10, 2010, 11:25:03 am
Yeah right!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash

Look at all the capos giving the widows envelopes of cash...





From the wiki link above:

Notable passengers

According to the flight manifest on-board were among others:[31][32][33]

    * Lech Kaczyński, President of Poland
    * Maria Kaczyńska, First Lady of Poland
    * Andrzej Błasik, Chief of the Polish Air Force
    * Krystyna Bochenek, Deputy Speaker of the Senat
    * Archbishop Miron Chodakowski, Orthodox Ordinary of the Polish Army
    * Leszek Deptuła, member of the Sejm
    * Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm
    * Janina Fetlińska, member of the Senat
    * General Franciszek Gągor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff
    * Grażyna Gęsicka, member of the Sejm
    * Przemysław Gosiewski, member of the Sejm
    * Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
    * Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka, member of the Sejm
    * Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
    * Sebastian Karpiniuk, member of the Sejm
    * Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta, Commander-in-chief of the Polish Navy
    * Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman for Citizen Rights
    * Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
    * Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance
    * Aleksandra Natalli-Świat, member of the Sejm
    * Piotr Nurowski, President of the Polish Olympic Committee
    * Maciej Płażyński, President of the Polish Community Association
    * Tadeusz Płoski, bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army
    * Krzysztof Putra, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
    * Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary-General of the Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites
    * Ryszard Rumianek, Rector of the Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University
    * Arkadiusz Rybicki, member of the Sejm
    * Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland
    * Władysław Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
    * Aleksander Szczygło, head of the National Security Bureau
    * Jerzy Szmajdziński, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
    * Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz, member of the Sejm
    * Anna Walentynowicz, free trade union activist, member of Solidarity
    * Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm
    * Wiesław Woda, member of the Sejm
    * Edward Wojtas, member of the Sejm
    * Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
    * Stanisław Zając, member of the Senat
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 11:27:49 am

European Union   

José Manuel Barroso, the President of the European Commission said: "I express my deep condolences to Poland for the passing away of President Kaczyński, his wife and all those with them under such tragic circumstances on their way to mark the 70th anniversary commemoration of the Katyn massacres. I have worked very closely with President Kaczyński, in a spirit of loyalty, and I respected in him a very determined Polish patriot who at the same time was very committed to our European Union and to the values of freedom and solidarity. The European Commission joins me in this moment in the expression of sympathy and tribute."

REALLY?

REALLY?

EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso warns EU member states, especially Poland

AGREE OR ELSE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkMaTB9VpY0&feature=related
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 11:34:12 am
Quote

France   

President Nicolas Sarkozy paid tribute to Kaczyński in a statement: "a man driven by ardent patriotism, who dedicated his life to his country."[50]

REALLY?

REALLY?

Sarkozy on an EU without Poland

EUXTV — June 23, 2007 — French President Nicolas Sarkozy speaks out about the prospect for a European Union of 26 nations without Poland...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vmnQcEXSNE&feature=fvw


ANYONE WHO TALKS ABOUT THE POLISH PRESIDENT'S "PATRIOTISM" IS A PRIME SUSPECT IN THE ASSASSINATION!

PATRIOTISM = ANTI-NWO/ANTI-$EURO
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: TheQ on April 10, 2010, 11:40:29 am

I hope Alex can get Webster Tarpley to speak about this latest assassination.



I hope not, Tarpley really thinks Russia and China are anti-Illuminati and the New World Order is pretty much just the US and the UK and the rest are getting fooled...  :P
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Polaris on April 10, 2010, 11:45:29 am
Die Harder / Die Hard 2
In fog, controlling the altitude instruments of a commercial aircraft

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkCQ_-Id8zI
(http://www.bo-films.net/boutique_cd/images/Die_Hard_2.gif)

WHAT WAS DONE TO THE PLANE RECENTLY?

WERE PTECH TYPE REMOTE SYSTEMS PUT IN?
I'm glad you pointed this out.
Here's the clip from the movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkCQ_-Id8zI
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Jackson Holly on April 10, 2010, 11:45:56 am


SANE, great work on this thread, man ... and you other posters as well.

Scary that they are taking to wiping out entire governments in one fell swoop.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: bobkelso on April 10, 2010, 11:48:08 am
"there was no blast when the plane crashed, some witnesses say it was leaking fuel before landing"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL6IK4K193M&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 10, 2010, 11:52:38 am

SANE, great work on this thread, man ... and you other posters as well.



Now we know why he is where he is. :)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 10, 2010, 11:56:02 am
a polish contractor of mine is telling me , he read that they were trying to land 4 times.

I'm trying to find confirmation of that.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Juntawatch on April 10, 2010, 12:10:29 pm
http://www.eurosavant.com/2010/04/10/translated-list-of-victims-of-polish-president-air-crash-at-smolensk-airport-russia/

'Translated List of Victims of Polish President Air-Crash at Smolensk Airport, Russia
I take this from the on-line article published by the respected Polish daily (if with an unpronouncable name) Rzeczpospolita. (UPDATE: RP modified that article! It no longer contains the list of victims, for that you click here to open/download a .doc file with the list – for as long as they keep that there and unchanged, anyway.)

Please note that I will use “RP” (i.e. the Polish abbreviation) to denote the Polish Republic. The “Sejm” is the lower house of the Polish parliament (upper house = Senate).

Of further note is the sheer number of dead from among Sejm deputies – imagine how many special elections need to be called now to fill those places!'

OFFICIAL DELEGATION
(Namely to the ceremonies that were to take place at the Katyn forest, site of the gigantic massacre of Polish Army officers and other intelligentsia by the Soviet NKVD in 1940.)**

Lech Kaczyński, President of the Polish Republic
Maria Kaczyńska, First Lady RP
Ryszard Kaczorowski, last President of the RP in exile (surrendered his position in 1990 when Lech Wałęsa elected as proper Polish president)
Krzysztof Putra, Vice-Marshall of the Sejm
Jerzy Szmajdziński, Vice-Marshall of the Sejm
Krystyna Bochenek, Vice-Marshall of the Sejm
Jerzy Bahr, RP Ambassador to the Russian Federation
Władysław Stasiak, Chief of Staff to the President of the RP
Aleksander Szczygło, Head of the Office of National Security (equivalent to the US National Security Council)
Jacek Sasin, Vice-Chief of Staff to the President
Paweł Wypych, state-secretary in the Office of the President
Mariusz Handzlik, under-state-secretarz in the Office of the President
Andrzej Kremer, under-state-secratry at the RP Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Stanisław Komorowski, under-state-secretarz at the RP Defense Ministry
Tomasz Merta, under-state-secretary at the RP Ministry of Culture and National Patrimony
Gen. Franciszek Gągor, Chief of the Polish General Staff
Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary of the the RP Institute of Military History
Maciej Płażyński, President of “Wspólnota Polska,” the Polish cultural organization much like the German Goethe Institute or the British Council
Mariusz Kazana, Director of Protocol for the RP Ministry of Foreign Affairs

PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATIVES

Leszek Deptuła, Sejm deputy

Grzegorz Dolniak, Sejm deputy

Grażyna Gęsicka, Sejm deputy

Przemysław Gosiewski, Sejm deputy

Sebastian Karpiniuk, Sejm deputy

Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka, Sejm deputy

Zbigniew Wassermann, Sejm deputy

Aleksandra Natalli-Swiat, Sejm deputy

Arkadiusz Rybicki, Sejm deputy

Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz, Sejm deputy

Wiesław Woda, Sejm deputy

Edward Wojtas, Sejm deputy

Janina Fetlińska, Senator

Stanisław Zając, Senator


ACCOMPANYING PERSONS

Janusz Kochanowski, human rights advocate
Sławomir Skrzypek, President National Bank of Poland
Janusz Kurtyka, President of the Institute of National Memory
Janusz Krupski, Head of the Office for the Rights of Combatants and Repressed Persons

RELIGIOUS REPRESENTATIVES

Bishop Gen. Tadeusz Płoski, field chaplain of the Polish Army
Archbishop Gen. Miron Chodakowski, Orthodox Church chaplain of the Polish Army
Pastor (Colonel) Adam Pilch, Evangelical (= Protestant) field chaplain
Father (Lieutenant-Colonel) Jan Osiński, field chaplain of the Polish Army.

I’m putting this much up now in the interests of speed. Then I’ll complete it with the remainder of the names, which constitute a number of would-be ceremony-attendees with some personal connection to the Katyn Massacre, together with some rather significant military personnel.

UPDATE: Here’s the rest of the names on the RP list – go ahead and scroll down, there are still some important ones to report.

REPRESENTATIVES OF FAMILIES INVOLVED WITH THE KATYN MASSACRE AND OTHERS ACCOMPANYING THEM

Edward Duchnowski, Secretary-General of the Siberian Association

Father Bronisław Gostomski
Father Jósef Joniec, President of the parish association
Father Zdzisław Król, Chaplain to the Warsaw chapter of the association of Katyn families, 1987-2007
Father Andrzej Kwaśnik, Chaplain of the Federation of Katyn Families
Tadeusz Lutoborski
Boźena Łojek, President of the Polish Katyn Foundation
Stefan Melak, President of the Katyn Committee
Stanisław Mikke, vice-chairman of RP Institute of Military History
Bronisława Orawiec-Loffler
Katarzyna Piskorska
Andrzej Sariusz-Skąpski, President of the Federation of Katyn Families
Wojciech Seweryn
Leszek Solski
Teresa Walewska-Przyjałkowska, Foundation “Golgotha of the East”
Gabriela Zych
Ewa Bąkowska, granddaughter of Brig. Gen. Mieczyslaw Smarowiński (Polish general killed at Katyn)
Maria Borowska
Bartosz Borowski
Dariusz Malinowski


REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ARMED FORCES

LT Gen. Bronisław Kwatkowski, Operational Head of the Polish Armed Forces
LT Gen. Andrzej Błasik, Head of Polish Internal [i.e. police] Forces
Major Gen. Tadeusz Buk, Head of Polish Land Forces
Major Gen. Włodzimierz Potasiński, Head of Polish Special Forces
Vice-Admiral Andrzej Karweta, Head of Polish NavyBrig. Gen. Kazimierz Gilarski, Head of the Warsaw Garrison

Will you look at how virtually all Polish military leadership was decapitated in this one crash! (Remember that Chief of Staff Gągor – Poland’s #1 military guy – and the head of the Polish National Security Council were also killed, they are in the section with President Kaczyński at the very top of this list.) The exception: the Head of the Polish Air Force – perhaps because he would know how dangerous it is to put all of your national military & civilian leadership together in one (Russian-made) airplane?

Posted on Saturday, April 10th, 2010. Trackback


Tags: air-crash, Katyn Massacre, Lech Kaczynski, Rzeczpospolita, Smolensk

**Juntawath addendum - NKVD:
Designation of Soviet Secret Police 1934-1943.
Acronym for People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs.

Soviet Secret Police Chronological order:
Ochrana, GPU, OGPU, NKVD, NKGB, MGB, MVD, KGB, FSB (Today)

Source: Gulag Archipelago: Vol I-II. Solzhenitsyn.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: muggl3z on April 10, 2010, 12:14:57 pm
The instant I heard about this crash I knew it would be discussed here. Presidents don't just die in plane crashes very often. Call me cynical.

This is the 2nd possible assassination by plane crash recently, remember the Tesla Motor guys that went down recently as well?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/17/tesla-motors-executive-re_n_465931.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: CheneysWorstNightmare on April 10, 2010, 01:46:05 pm
So let me get this straight:

Poland is part on the European Union, but they do not use the Euro money.

Am I correct?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 10, 2010, 01:49:27 pm
So let me get this straight:

Poland is part on the European Union, but they do not use the Euro money.

Am I correct?

i believe so. the late president was very pro polish and pro america...in cnn terms of thinking.

the interim president atm is in the pro america aspect of the political spectrum but the election is being moved up to june.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: muggl3z on April 10, 2010, 01:54:26 pm
I was listening to the radio (Coast to Coast AM) w/a friend when we heard the news. I looked over at him and said, "Looks like the Illuminati is moving pieces around the chess board!"

I don't think I was wrong.  :-\
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Outer Haven on April 10, 2010, 01:59:28 pm
This is how Janusz Korwin-Mikke has commented on this on his blog:

Quote
Them, as well as the people accompanying them - died on duty, in service of the Country. To the families of the victims I send my most sincere condolences.

Along with the Presidential Pair there also died the entire command of the Polish Army:
general Bronisław KWIATKOWSKI (operational Commander of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Poland), gen. Franciszek GĄGOR (Head of the General Staff of the Polish Army), gen. Andrzej BŁASIK (the head of the Air Forces), gen. Tadeusz BUK (head of Land Forces), gen. Włodzimierz POTASIŃSKI (head of Special Forces of the Polish Army), vice-admiral Andrzej KARWETA (head of Navy), and gen. Kazimierz GILARSKI (the commander of the Warsaw Unit).
Probably never before in the history of any country no act of war managed to annihilate an ENTIRE command of a military!!!
The army, fortunately, has a clearly determined hierarchy: the place of a deceased commander is taken by his [sorry, don't know the word for it in English; it's the man that's supposed to take over his duties in his absence] - thus leaving the power structure unharmed. It's a slightly different story in the world of politics...
The practical consequences of this incident are very serious.
First of all: in the political infighting in Poland, the former WSI [some communist military agency] takes the lead over the people from the former SB [another communist agency]. There will also be a shift from a pro-American position towards a pro-European position. I would cry over that - if it wasn't for the fact that the USA is currently run by socialists, as well, so the difference won't be that big...
In any event: there will undoubtedly be new appointments made. Let's start with the head of IPN (the Institute of National Remembrance): I have disagreed with His stance a number of times - however we must admit that He let the procurators and the historians of IPN speak the truth. Not all of it, of course - but it's not for the procurator to speak the whole truth - only that part of it that's necessary in the given case.
Polish Central Bank Governor has died. There are fears that His successor will be all too eager to destroy the złoty and introduce the €uro. The stock market people specialising in financial schemes must already be dying from impatience to get rich on this.
And finally, privately: two of my friends have died: Bożena Mamontowicz-Łojkowa, a spouse after our distinguished historiosopher, Jerzy Łojek, and the president of the Polish Katyń Foundation - and Stefan Melak, the president of the Katyń Commitee.
Their souls must be content now, that death met them on Their way to Katyń...
Because, as rev.Bronisław Bozowski used to say: "There are no coincidences: only SIGNS".

By the way, there is a MASSIVE grief in Poland right now. Of course, the only story you hear on the news is that it was a plain (plane) accident...

MAYBE it was? I remember when I first heard of this, I thought it was probably a false flag attack, but then they wouldn't be calling it an accident, would they...
Quote

Poland is part on the European Union, but they do not use the Euro money.

Am I correct?
Yes.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chris jones on April 10, 2010, 02:29:44 pm
The (Polish Elite), after getting into this subject, reading that this was almost immediatly classified a pilot error, taking into consideration these leaders may not have lined up and kissed the arse of the NWO, bucked  of the masters.
Folks, this gang of pyscos wouldn't think twice about sabotaging this aircraft, they are close to the end game, the final solutions to fullfill their goal, no one will get in their way, even presidents.

Yes I know, there are those who will seek evidence, facts, a pat & honest conculsion, I ask you this: we all are aware of the countless assassinations they have performed, did they leave a trail- did the MSM investigative reporters do their job, the justice department, did anyone truly expose them. Did the Gov's warren report, the Gov's 911 investigation, were there WMD's in Iraq?? I'm convinced that any and all persons involved in these murders who is considered a risk, a potential whisltleblower is is taking a dirtnap.

Taking this into consideration, what does this bring to light, if they will wack out presidents and dignitarys what will they do to the common man!!!!!!!!, what did Hitler,Stalin, the chinese do to disenters!!

I ask myself over and over again, am I overreacting,... I continue to get the same answer-NO FK way!

Stalin said it, a true and devoted sociopathic elite,:" one death is a tragedy, ten thousand is just a number".

History repeats itself, has their ever been throughout history a tyrant or ruling class Elitists conquering nations who considered the lives lost, the terror, the domination as inhuman, nope, they beleive it to be a nessesity to complete their plan, to assend their throne.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Juntawatch on April 10, 2010, 02:34:47 pm
Yes they had a photo opportunity called SALT Treaty.


Yes, they did, it was on BBC News this earlymorn. And it's called 'New-Start':
New START treaty to determine disarmament the world over
(http://english.ruvr.ru/data/2010/04/08/1237848309/3RIA-621074-Preview.jpg)
Photo: RIA Novosti

'The new Russian-US Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, START, which is due to be signed in the Czech capital today, is a remarkable development that will determine disarmament processes around the world for years to come, said President Dmitry Medvedev in a comment on the document during his visit to Slovakia.'
http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/04/08/6165031.html
Apr 8, 2010 15:30 Moscow Time
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Cobra on April 10, 2010, 02:36:41 pm
Were they really foolish enough to put so many of the country's important people on a single plane?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:15:34 pm
Were they really foolish enough to put so many of the country's important people on a single plane?

that does seem to be  about the biggest issue on their part, but there is evidence that certain parlimentary procedures limited funds to be used for such security measures. it would be interesting to see who was lobbying against using better security measures.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:23:46 pm
I cannot put into words how sad this event is.

The people on that plane were fighting against the NWO on a financial, religious, military, and governmental level. The entire movement was decapitated in a second. Remember that the invasion of Poland marked the start of the 2nd world war. This third world war which is being waged via monetary policy just got escalated whether we feel it from our comfy perches or not.

This is not a Telse guy going down in a single prop or even a senator being assassinated by Cheney/Bush.

This was the death star blowing up Alderon.

This was a complete NWO annihalation of a major blockade to worldwide tyranny.

It must be exposed.

If the patriotic intelligence officers do not act independently to defend their oaths of office, then we need to continue exposing it with community communication and distribution of evidence and truth materials.



Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: StemCell on April 10, 2010, 03:29:16 pm
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=372271

A Chicago artist is among 97 killed in the crash of Poland's presidential aircraft in western Russia.

Wojciech Seweryn is listed among the passengers on the Web site of Poland's president. Polish officials have said all onboard died.

The plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski, his wife and 95 others crashed as it attempted to land in thick fog early Saturday. The group was headed to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.

The Chicago consul general of the Republic of Poland told the Chicago Tribune that Seweryn's father died in the massacre and Seweryn led construction of a memorial in Niles. Zygmunt Matynia says Seweryn was a patriot.

Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev.

Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn offered his condolences on the deaths today.

Quinn says in a statement that Kaczynski was a courageous and dedicated champion of his nation and a defender of freedom.

Chicago Mayor Richard Daley saidKaczynski was a committed leader who worked to promote cultural ties between Chicago and Poland.

Chicago has the largest Polish and Polish-American population in the U.S.

Quinn's office says Kaczynski had been expected to visit Chicago late this month to help commemorate Polish Constitution Day.

The crash devastated the upper echelons of Poland's political and military establishments. On board were the army chief of staff, national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, the Polish foreign ministry said.

It was not expected to directly affect the functioning of Polish government, however: Poland's president is commander in chief of its armed forces but the position's domestic duties are chiefly symbolic. The prime minister and other top government ministers were not aboard the plane.

Poland has long discussed replacing the planes that carry the country's leaders but said they lacked the funds. The presidential Tu-154 had been overhauled in December in Russia, officials said.

Russia's Emergency Ministry said there were 96 dead, 88 part of a Polish state delegation. Poland's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Piotr Paszkowski, said there were 89 people on the passenger list but one person had not shown up for the roughly 1½-hour flight from Warsaw's main airport.

Poland's parliament speaker, the acting president, declared a week of national mourning.

"We still cannot fully understand the scope of this tragedy and what it means for us in the future. Nothing like this has ever happened in Poland," Paszkowski said. "We can assume with great certainty that all persons on board have been killed."

The plane tilted to the left before crashing, eyewitness Slawomir Sliwinski told Rossiya-24. He said there were two loud explosions when the aircraft hit the ground.

State news channel Rossiya-24 showed footage from the crash site, with pieces of the plane scattered widely amid leafless trees and small fires burning in woods shrouded with fog. A tail fin with the red and white national colors of Poland stuck up from the debris.

"The Polish presidential plane did not make it to the runway while landing. Tentative findings indicate that it hit the treetops and fell apart," regional governor Sergei Anufriev said on Rossiya-24. "Nobody has survived the disaster."

According to the Aviation Safety Network, there have been 66 crashes involving Tu-154s, including six in the past five years. The Russian carrier Aeroflot recently withdrew its Tu-154 fleet from service.

The presidential plane was fully overhauled in December, the general director of the Aviakor aviation maintenance plant in Samara, Russia told Rossiya-24. The plant repaired the plane's three engines, retrofitted electronic and navigation equipment and updated the interior, Alexei Gusev said. He said there could be no doubts that the plane was flightworthy.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev both called Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk to express their condolences and they promised to work closely with Poland in investigating the crash.

"On this difficult day the people of Russia stand with the Polish people," Medvedev told Tusk, the Kremlin press service said.

Putin, who has been put in charge of the commission investigating the crash, told Tusk that he would keep him fully briefed, his spokesman said.

Polish-Russian relations had been improving of late after being poisoned for decades over the Katyn massacre of some 22,000 Polish officers.

Russia never has formally apologized for the murders but Putin's decision to attend a memorial ceremony earlier this week in the forest near Katyn was seen as a gesture of goodwill toward reconciliation. Rossiya-24 showed hundreds of people around the Katyn monument, many holding Polish flags, some weeping.

In Warsaw, Tusk called an extraordinary meeting of his Cabinet and the national flag was lowered to half-staff at the presidential palace, where people gathered to lay flowers and light candles.

Black ribbons appeared in some windows in the Polish capital.

Kaczynski, 60, became president in December 2005 after defeating Tusk in that year's presidential vote.

The nationalist conservative was the twin brother of Poland's opposition leader, former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski. Kaczynski's wife, Maria, was an economist. They had a daughter, Marta, and two granddaughters.

Kaczynski had said he would seek a second term in presidential elections this fall. He was expected to face an uphill struggle against Parliament speaker Bronislaw Komorowski, the candidate of Tusk's governing Civic Platform party.

Poland was due to hold elections in the fall, though no date had been set.

However, the constitution says the parliament speaker, who takes on the duties of president, must announce early elections within 14 days of the president's death.

The vote must be held within another 60 days. This means Poland will be holding early presidential elections before June 20.

In the village of Gorzno, in northern Poland, the streets were largely empty as people stayed home to watch television.

"It is very symbolic that they were flying to pay homage to so many murdered Poles," said resident Waleria Gess, 73.

"I worry because so many clever and decent people were killed," said high school student Pawel Kwas, 17. "I am afraid we may have problems in the future to find equally talented politicians."

Klaus Bachmann, a professor of politics at Wroclaw University, said the president "wasn't very popular and it was quite obvious that he would lose the upcoming elections."

"The open question is what will Kaczynski's party and his brother do; he might decide to run for president himself, he might also consider to withdraw from politics at all because he had a very very close link to his brother and I can't imagine how much shocked he must be."

Poland, a nation of 38 million people, is by far the largest of the 10 formerly communist countries that have joined the European Union in recent years.

Last year, Poland was the only EU nation to avoid recession and posted economic growth of 1.7 percent.

It has become a firm U.S. ally in the region since the fall of communism -- a stance that crosses party lines.

The country sent troops to the U.S.-led war in Iraq and recently boosted its contingent in Afghanistan to some 2,600 soldiers.

U.S. Patriot missiles are expected to be deployed in Poland this year. That was a Polish condition for a 2008 deal -- backed by both Kaczynski and Tusk -- to host long-range missile defense interceptors.

The deal, which was struck by the Bush administration, angered Russia and was later reconfigured under President Barack Obama's administration.

Under the Obama plan, Poland would host a different type of missile defense interceptors as part of a more mobile system and at a later date, probably not until 2018.

Kaczynski is the first serving Polish leader to die since exiled World War II-era leader Gen. Wladyslaw Sikorski in a plane crash off Gibraltar in 1943.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:38:32 pm
Poland’s Leaders Move to Weaken €Euro, Then Die in Plane Crash
http://www.infowars.com/polands-leaders-move-to-weaken-currency-then-die-in-plane-crash/
Government Against The People
April 10 ,2010

There’s no telling if the two events are connected, but their timing is mighty interesting.

The Polish government and the National Bank of Poland, in a “rare moment of unity,” agree to weaken Poland’s currency, the zloty, in an act that would benefit Poland’s exporters at the expense of Poland’s trading partners—that is, the European Union, among others. Then, the next day, Poland’s president and the president of its national bank die in a plane crash.   
   
Polish President Lech Kaczynski speaks to the press prior to boarding his plane at the military airport in Warsaw, Poland.

From the Wall Street Journal in an item dated April 9, 2010:

In one of those rare moments of unity, the National Bank of Poland and the Polish government agreed on the need to weaken the Polish zloty, which over recent weeks has rebounded close to its pre-crisis strength. The currency’s strength is now seen a possible threat to economic recovery. After several verbal interventions over the past few days, the central bank intervened with real money Friday, for the first time in more than a decade.

The bank followed through on its Thursday warnings that it is “technologically and psychologically” prepared to enter the currency market to prevent “excessive strengthening of the zloty.” Government officials also said earlier this week that the “strong zloty” is damaging growth and, after Friday’s intervention, said they fully back the central bank’s move.

In moving to weaken the zloty, Poland’s leadership was placing the interests of the people of Poland ahead of the interests of the European collective known as the European Union.

Then, the next day, the president of Poland dies in a plane crash along with numerous other top leaders, including the president of the National Bank. From the Mail Online:

Polish president Lech Kaczynski and his wife Maria have been killed after their plane  crashed on approach to Smolensk airport in western Russia.

Russian news agencies reported at least 87 people died in the crash near Smolensk airport in western Russia, citing the Russian Emergencies Ministry. They reported 132 people were aboard the Tupolev Tu-154.

The Army chief of staff, Gen. Franciszek Gagor, National Bank President Slawomir Skrzypek and Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer were on the passenger list.

Poland has been dragging its feet in adopting the euro and joining the European Union, having pushed back its target date for doing so until 2015. Here in the U.S., we might say that Poland is not a “team player.” In the New World Order, bad things tend to happen to leaders who aren’t team players.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:39:57 pm

The presidential plane was fully overhauled in December, the general director of the Aviakor aviation maintenance plant in Samara, Russia told Rossiya-24. The plant repaired the plane's three engines, retrofitted electronic and navigation equipment and updated the interior, Alexei Gusev said. He said there could be no doubts that the plane was flightworthy.


I am very curious about those "upgrades" in red.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:42:08 pm
anyone know if Luke has commented? My condolences to all that are affected by this massacre.

Here is an interview he did in Polish: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=144792.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Pq0V1nCaM
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 03:50:27 pm
Russia begins probe into Polish president's death
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/10/2869413.htm?section=world
By Moscow correspondent Norman Hermant and wires
Updated April 10, 2010 23:43:00

People light candles and place flowers in front of the Presidential Palace in Warsaw, Poland. (Reuters: Kacper Pempel)
Related Story: Polish president's plane crashes in Russia

Russia says Prime Minister Vladimir Putin will personally head the investigation into an aeroplane crash that killed Poland's president.

A total of 96 people were on board the plane that crashed near the western Russian city of Smolensk, all of whom are believed to be dead.

Polish president Lech Kaczynski was on board the Russian-built Tupolev 154 jet when it went down in heavy fog near a military airport.

Russian authorities have already said they suspect pilot error in the crash, near Smolensk, in Western Russia.

There are reports the jet made several attempted landings before the crash.

Also on board were leading members of Poland's political elite, including the army chief of staff and the governor of the central bank.

A scan of a list of 88 passengers aboard the plane published on a Polish government website showed the names of Poland's chief of staff, General Franciszek Gagor, and Major General Bronislaw, head of operational forces.

General Tadeusz Buk, head of land forces, air force commander Andrzej Blasik and special forces chief Wojciech Potasinki, as well as navy vice-admiral Andrzej Karweta, were also on the list.

They were part of an official delegation travelling to commemorate the massacre of thousands of Polish soldiers by soviet troops during the second world war.

"There will be a generational shift in the Polish army. It's a process which has already begun but this twist of fate will accelerate it," said Professor Lena Kolarska-Bobinska, a Warsaw-based political analyst.

Meanwhile, Poland's acting head of state has declared a week of mourning.

"We are united - there is no [political] left or right - we are united in national mourning," said Bronislaw Komorowski, Poland's parliamentary speaker who took charge of presidential duties after Mr Kaczynski's death.

Blackbox found


Authorities have found one of the flight recorders of the plane, news agencies reported.

"One of the flight recorders has been found at the scene of the crash," the Interfax news agency quoted a regional government source as saying.

The RIA-Novosti news agency reported that a dirt-covered orange device shown in television footage at the crash scene was a flight recorder from the Tu-154 jet.

Such recorders are often called "black boxes" and are used to reconstruct the chain of events that led to a crash.

Leaders send condolences

US president Barack Obama offered condolences to Poland, mourning the "devastating" death of Mr Kaczynski.

"Today, I called Polish Prime Minister [Donald] Tusk to express Michelle's and my deepest condolences to the people of Poland on the tragic deaths this morning of President Lech Kaczynski, First Lady Maria Kaczynski, and all who were traveling with them to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre," Mr Obama said in a statement.

He described the loss as "devastating to Poland, to the United States, and to the world."

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he was "shocked and saddened" at the death of the Polish president.

"I was shocked and saddened at the death of Polish president Lech Kaczynski and his wife Maria," he said in a statement.

Mr Brown added that Mr Kaczynski was "one of the defining actors in Poland's modern political history."

"He will be mourned across the world and remembered as a passionate patriot and democrat," Mr Brown said.

"My thoughts are with his family and countrymen at this most difficult of times."

French president Nicholas Sarkozy said he was deeply moved and very sad about the death of Mr Kaczynski and his wife.

"At this very sad time," the head of state "conveys all his sympathy to the family of president Kaczynski and to the families of all the victims and wishes to express his deep personal condolences and on behalf of the French people," a statement released by the president's office said.

"In this tragic test which has plunged all of Poland into mourning [the president] would like to recall the exceptional friendly ties which unite France and Poland as well as the French and Polish people."

He paid homage to his Polish counterpart as a man "driven by ardent patriotism, who dedicated his life to his country."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: squarepusher on April 10, 2010, 04:08:51 pm
LOL at the one suggesting this is done by Russia.

If anything, it reeks of the CIA - they had Julia Timoshenko and Yushenko in their back pockets - not so with the most recent democratically elected President. That's why they needed him to be gone.

This can be accomplished very simply - every command and control center has 'area denial' capabilities - you do the math.

This, along with the 'shoot yourself through the head two times', is standard ops procedure out of the CIA 'assassination' handbook.

C'mon people - with all the various people 'assassinated' - surely you would have figured out by now how this game is played? They even 'assassinate' people who formerly played ball but are now not politically expedient - such as Benazir Bhutto, who was by no means a wonderful lady - in fact, she was a very despicable oligarch, but even so, she formed somewhat of a 'threat' to the current ruling puppet back then, Musharraf, and that's why they killed her.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: KazKru on April 10, 2010, 04:27:55 pm
Lot's of talk in the MSM of pilot error and pilots inexperienced at landing in heavy fog.  What a joke!

Pilots who fly heads of state around, are not hacks who worked their way up throught the ranks of PuddleJump Airways, flying intoxicated fisherman and hunters in and out of wilderness camps.  Rather, pilots who fly presidents and their like, are always top former military pilots who were tops in their field.....they don't make mistakes like are suggested in this crash.

That's what makes me suspicious about this crash from the beginning.....the fact that the MSM has been all over the "pilot error" angle since the early minutes of the coverage.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 04:42:27 pm
Poland was the only country in the European Union to avoid a recession during the financial crisis. The Warsaw Stock Exchange has also seen a tripling in the total value of listed companies since 2003.

Watch the Warsaw Stock Exchange fall into lock step with the rest of the world now...




Translated from
http://newworldorder.com.pl/artykul.php?id=1974&tytul=Nar%C3%B3d+Polski+w+g%C5%82%C4%99bokim+szoku+%E2%80%93+lista+pyta%C5%84+ro%C5%9Bnie+

VIDEOS
Disaster at Smolensk. The President did not live (photo images Polsat News)
http://www.globalnaswiadomosc.com/prezydentzginal.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fQ22KdBbRw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm94pGvVcp4&feature=related


Polish nation in deep shock - a list of questions grows

It is unheard of for the president, head of the Bureau and the entire staff of bosses to fly together. Who allowed it and why?...

(http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/3/6014/z6014353X.jpg)

Today at 8:56 the Presidential TU 154 aircraft crashed near a military airport in Smolensk, Russia. All passengers and crew perished. They flew to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the Katyn Massacre.

Included in the list of dead were the Polish President Lech Kaczynski and his wife, members of the Polish political elite, and  several high-ranking clergy and the Polish Army officers, including Chief of General Staff and commander of all military forces in Poland and Head of National Security. The head of the IPN and representatives of the families of Katyn were also killed.

On board were 88 passengers and 8 crew. Reports are not as yet accurate. The Media is saying about 96 victims.

There is no doubt that in modern Polish history as well as world history there has never been such a single tragic event, in which so many of the leading lights of a world state were killed. It is difficult to convey the magnitude of this disaster and the implications for Poland and the world.

It is above all a great tragedy and shock for not only the families and friends of victims of disaster but also the Polish nation. It is very symbolic that the crash occurred near the location of the Katyn Memorial where Polish intellectual elite were murdered 70 years ago.

Here's what we managed to collect from the chaotically-media information:

- In the early morning a transport plane [Transportation IL] arrived at the airport in Smolensk approaches. The plane touches down on the the runway, but was ordered to leave immediately and land at another airport.

- Approximately 8:40 Polish government pilots attempt to land the plane. They attempt approach 4 times. On the 4th approach at 8:56 plane is at a height of several meters and on an incorrect glide path - 70 meters aside from the axis of the runway, although first were that the plane crashed 2 miles from a runway. It is strange that the airplane remains and wreckage are scattered up to a distance of 1 km from the crash site, and were able to fly up and over the trees to their final resting places. The plane carries no explicable twist, which touches on a terrestrial antenna and standing beside a tree, which leads to catastrophe. The plane is in flames.

- A witness testifies that the fire was small and the explosion had not heard. He heard only a muffled thud.

- At. 9:36 fire is extinguished.

- A Polish reporter accidentally found himself on the outskirts of the airport within 10 minutes after the crash. He began to record the arrival of many government cars (in 10 minutes after the crash!). Guided by the feeling of hiding the tape recording. A few minutes later, he is stopped on the pretext of invalid visa. Security professionals want him to surrender his equipment but he convinces them that he had no tape recording. A few hours later he is released.

- Time 9:41 - Russian media report the disaster and that no one has survived.

- President Medvedev appoints special committee to investigate the cause of the disaster. Commission is to be headed by Prime Minister Putin personally. At the same time there will be an investigation by prosecutors, dealing with the breach by an airplane pilot of flight safety (sic).

The whole situation is nothing but confusion and more and more questions to be answered as soon as possible:

1st
It is unknown to us ant time that the have security services approved the flight of the President, the head of the National Security Bureau and the entire staff of bosses and important part of the political elite on the same flight at the same time. Who and why it allowed?

2nd
Why was the Russian airplane landing banned, although there was already on board a runway and a Polish airplane was given clearance?

3rd
Military airport in Smolensk meets all Russian standards airline. It is said, however, a lack of guiding the latest equipment. This does not mean that they are not there at all. They are afraid and guidance radars, and communication with the flight tower. As in that case, the plane could be found up to 70 meters on the side of a runway?

4th
The media gives the news of poor visibility. TV coverage of the accident site, however, show that it was good enough to turn the material from a distance of up to several hundred meters. The pilot could not see the trees and ground antennas. What then happened?

5th
Why did the Russian authorities immediately question the skill of one of the most experienced Polish pilots, immediately launching an investigation into pilot error?

6th
Finally, last question - how is possible that an aircraft at an altitude of just a few meters was so utterly destroyed? Timber in the area is rare and mainly small trees. What has contributed to a scale of the damage to the plane? Recently in the Netherlands there was a similar accident, and nearly all survived.[ref (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7909683.stm)]

In our media there is great emphasis on the "admirable" the behavior of Medvedev and Putin, while ignoring or playing down the above facts.

Only 2 hours later, another witness has already said they saw a large ball of fire, contradicting the the story that the fire was small and extinguished quickly... The information is blatantly contradictory. We hope that this time the truth will out. This is so for us - Poles - very important and it is important for the whole world. The consequences of what happened can be much more significant than we suspect.

original story in Polish (http://newworldorder.com.pl/artykul.php?id=1974&tytul=Nar%C3%B3d+Polski+w+g%C5%82%C4%99bokim+szoku+%E2%80%93+lista+pyta%C5%84+ro%C5%9Bnie+)


Original Polish version

Naród Polski w głębokim szoku – lista pytań rośnie

Nieznane nam są przypadki aby możliwy był wspólnego lot prezydenta, szefa BBN i całego szefostwa sztabu. Kto i dlaczego na to pozwolił?...

W dniu dzisiejszym o godz. 8.56 prezydencki samolot TU 154 rozbił się niedaleko wojskowego lotniska w Smoleńsku. Wszyscy pasażerowie wraz załoga zginęli. Lecieli na obchody 70-lecia Zbrodni Katyńskiej.

Zginął Prezydent Polski Lech Kaczyński z małżonką, zginęła część elity politycznej Polski, zginęli wysokiej rangi duchowni i oficerowie Wojska Polskiego, w tym Szef Sztabu Generalnego oraz dowódcy wszystkich rodzajów sil wojskowych w Polsce jak i Szef Biura Bezpieczeństwa Narodowego. Zginął Szef IPN i przedstawiciele rodzin katyńskich.

Na pokładzie było 88 pasażerów oraz 8-osobowa załoga samolotu. Wiadomości nie są jak na razie dokładne. Media podają informacje o 96 ofiarach katastrofy.

Nie ulega wątpliwości, iż jeszcze nigdy we współczesnej historii Polski i świata nie zdarzyła się tego typu tragedia, w której aż tak dużo czołowych osobistości państwowych jednocześnie zginęło. Nie można sobie nawet wyobrazić, jak wielkie znaczenie dla Polski i Świata ma ta katastrofa.

Jest to przede wszystkim wielka tragedia rodzin i przyjaciół ofiar katastrofy oraz wielki szok dla narodu polskiego. Bardzo symbolicznym jest fakt, że do katastrofy doszło w pobliżu miejsca gdzie 70 lat temu została zamordowana polska elita intelektualna.

Oto co udało nam się zebrać z chaotycznie przekazywanych przez media informacji:

- We wczesnych godzinach rannych do lądowania na lotnisku w Smoleńsku podchodzi transportowy IŁ. Samolot dotyka płyty lotniska, lecz dostaje rozkaz opuszczenia pasa i lądowania na innym lotnisku.

- Około godz. 8.40 Polski samolot rządowy próbuje lądować. Podchodzi 4 krotnie do lądowania. Przy 4 próbie, o godz. 8.56 samolot znajduje się na wysokości kilkunastu metrów, mając niewłaściwą pozycję – 70 metrów na bok od osi pasa startowego, choć na początku podawano iż samolot rozbił się w odległości 2 km od pasa do lądowania. Dziwne jest to ze szczątki samolotu rozrzucone są na odległość 1 km od miejsca katastrofy, choć leciał tuz nad drzewami. Samolot wykonuje nie wytłumaczalny skręt, przez co zahacza o antenę naziemną i stojące obok drzewa, co doprowadza do katastrofy. Samolot staje w płomieniach.

- Świadek zeznaje, iż pożar był niewielki a wybuchu nie słyszał. Słyszał jedynie głuchy stuk.

- O godz. 9.36 pożar zostaje ugaszony.

- Polski reporter przypadkiem znalazł się na obrzeżach lotniska w 10 minut po katastrofie. Zaczął nagrywać przyjazd wielu rządowych samochodów (w 10 minut po katastrofie!). Kierując się przeczuciem ukrywa taśmę z nagraniem. W kilka minut później zostaje zatrzymany pod pretekstem nieważności wizy. Pracownicy służby bezpieczeństwa chcą mu odebrać sprzęt ale przekonuje ich, ze nie miał taśm do nagrywania. W kilka godzin później zostaje zwolniony.

- Godz. 9.41 – rosyjskie media informują o katastrofie oraz że nikt nie przeżył.

- Prezydent Miedwiediew powołuje specjalną komisję, mającą zbadać przyczyny katastrofy. Komisji przewodzi osobiście premier Putin. Jednocześnie rozpoczyna się śledztwo prokuratorskie, z paragrafu mówiącego o naruszeniu przez pilota samolotu bezpieczeństwa lotu (sic!).

W całej tej sytuacji są same tylko niejasności i powstaje coraz więcej pytań, na które należy jak najszybciej odpowiedzieć:

1. Nieznane nam są przypadki aby służba bezpieczeństwa dopuściła do wspólnego lotu Prezydenta, szefa Biura Bezpieczeństwa Narodowego i całego szefostwa sztabu oraz ważnej części elity politycznej. Kto i dlaczego na to pozwolił?

2. Dlaczego rosyjskiemu samolotowi zakazano lądowania mimo, że już znajdował się na płycie pasa do lądowania a polskiemu samolotowi dano wybór?

3. Wojskowe lotnisko w Smoleńsku spełnia wszystkie rosyjskie normy lotnicze. Mówi się jednak o braku najnowszych urządzeń naprowadzających. Nie znaczy to jednak, że nie ma ich tam w ogóle. Są boje naprowadzające i radary oraz jest komunikacja z wieżą lotów. Jak w takim razie samolot mógł się znaleźć aż 70 metrów z boku pasa do lądowania?

4. W mediach podaje się wiadomości o słabej widoczności. Relacje telewizyjne z miejsca wypadku pokazują jednak, iż była ona na tyle dobra aby kręcić materiał z odległości nawet kilkuset metrów. Pilot nie mógł nie widzieć drzew i anteny naziemnej. Co się w takim razie stało?

5. Dlaczego władze Rosji tak pospiesznie informują o błędzie jednego z najbardziej doświadczonych z polskich pilotów, od razu wszczynając śledztwo z odpowiedniego paragrafu?

6. W końcu ostatnie pytanie – jak to możliwe żeby samolot znajdujący się na wysokości zaledwie kilkunastu metrów tak doszczętnie się rozbił? Drzewostan w okolicy jest rzadki i z niewielkimi drzewkami. Co przyczyniło się aż do takiej skali katastrofy? Niedawno w Holandii zdarzył się podobny wypadek i prawie wszyscy ocaleli.

W naszych mediach kładzie się duży nacisk na “godne podziwu” zachowanie Miedwiediewa i Putina, którzy jako pierwsi to i jako pierwsi tamto, jednocześnie pomijając czy też bagatelizując powyższe fakty. Zaledwie 2 godziny później inny świadek mówi już o dużej kuli ognia, gdzie jednocześnie z miejsca wypadku relacjonuje się, iż pożar ugaszono błyskawicznie… Informacje są rażąco sprzeczne. Miejmy nadzieje, iż tym razem prawda wyjdzie na jaw. Jest to tak dla nas – Polaków – bardzo ważne jak i jest to ważne dla całego świata. Konsekwencje tego, co się stało mogą być dużo bardziej znaczące niż przypuszczamy.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: squarepusher on April 10, 2010, 04:52:45 pm


Two scenarios then -
1 - Russian intelligence along with CIA intelligence did this - it isn't really that hard, really - you can get an airplane to crash using 'area denial' techniques.
2 - The CIA did this alone and the Russians didn't know about it.

Tarpley will most likely find scenario 2 most plausible since he says the Chechnen terrorists are working for the CIA to bring down Russia - and Wayne Madsen was pursuing the same train of thought as well.

As for myself, when I look at prior documented history, this is a textbook CIA example. Perhaps that latest START treaty was part of a 'bring both countries on the same page' dialectic - perhaps the Russians have been convinced that it's in their best interests to partner up with the USA - thereby distancing itself from China and by default the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

This is all just speculation - but it's a pretty clear-cut case to me.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: victories on April 10, 2010, 04:54:11 pm
The plane being overhauled in russia just prior, Putin leadin the commitee..Was the fourth landing attempt the plane being robotically controlled? Was all landing attempt a robotic controlled sabotage?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Viper on April 10, 2010, 04:57:38 pm
I cannot put into words how sad this event is...

Yes, now it's had time to sink in i see now that this is a huge tragedy, dunno about the euro connection though, they ain't the only euro country without it, who knows man?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: squarepusher on April 10, 2010, 04:58:42 pm
The plane being overhauled in russia just prior, Putin leadin the commitee..Was the fourth landing attempt the plane being robotically controlled? Was all landing attempt a robotic controlled sabotage?

They don't even need to 'robotically control the plane' in order to bring it down. This is from a 1994 document, 'The Revolution In Military Affairs And Conflict Short Of War':

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/display.cfm?pubID=241

Quote
The advantage of directed energy weapons over conventional ones is deniability. Against whom is such deniability aimed? Certainly not the narcotraffickers, who will quickly recognize that interception by the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) or military planes leads to loss of their aircraft. Instead, deniability must be aimed at the American people, who do not sanction the imprisonment, much less execution, of individuals without a trial (and execution is how they will perceive it--the argument "we only disabled the aircraft, it was the crash which killed the pilot" will carry little weight).
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: victories on April 10, 2010, 05:03:34 pm
Ok, military top leaders in Poland loosing their life.. Nobody had any for-knoweledge. These are smart people, and they have powerful friends in Poland wanting to find the truth. But how can anyone prove anything, the black box is in Putin's hands..

One thing one want to look at. Has there been any recent job changes at the flight control in the airport? There are witnesses there, what do the flight control guys has to witness, what do their resume say, any connection to the intelligence
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: victories on April 10, 2010, 05:09:12 pm
squarepusher: Thx for info. Quite worrisome. Puting also has a bad history when it comes to assassinations. Everyone with natural discernment see the overweight of evidence of that
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: GI Jane on April 10, 2010, 05:13:52 pm
This one is an interesting case because it does make some sense that Anglo banking crowd did this because of the Euro and the larger agenda but I wouldn't rule out the Russians in the context of the resent false flag in Russia with the bombing and the arms treaty with Barry soetoro which is a win win for Russia this week. Maybe Putin smells weakness. While I understand the Anglo banking establishment could have done this with the CIA on orders from who? Zbigniew Brzezinsk? It is also possible that Russia isn't on board with them. I think that is a real possibility? No? I have no idea who did this but this is huge. We may have to wait and see who benefits.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: victories on April 10, 2010, 05:15:07 pm
This might be big. Should hard evidence occur that there is a conspiracy involved, the drawing card is that the power elite left behind in Poland might ask question. This is not like 9-11 where the illuminati-joker plays both sides of the table
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: GI Jane on April 10, 2010, 05:16:54 pm
This is huge!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:19:12 pm
Ok, military top leaders in Poland loosing their life.. Nobody had any for-knoweledge. These are smart people, and they have powerful friends in Poland wanting to find the truth. But how can anyone prove anything, the black box is in Putin's hands..

One thing one want to look at. Has there been any recent job changes at the flight control in the airport? There are witnesses there, what do the flight control guys has to witness, what do their resume say, any connection to the intelligence

you do not need to spend 40 years exposing the "magic bullet theory", that is absurd. Just look at the main iissue...

this group was against joining the euro currency

the new leadership is for it.

2+2=4 no matter what

CIA/G7 Assets have operatives everywhere. they can commit acts of sabotage during airplane upgrades within russia without a hitch. what about star wars and about 200 other ways NATO can blow up planes.

follow the money, it is always about the money.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 05:20:51 pm
Ok, military top leaders in Poland loosing their life.. Nobody had any for-knoweledge. These are smart people, and they have powerful friends in Poland wanting to find the truth. But how can anyone prove anything, the black box is in Putin's hands..

One thing one want to look at. Has there been any recent job changes at the flight control in the airport? There are witnesses there, what do the flight control guys has to witness, what do their resume say, any connection to the intelligence

I think that even at the top levels of most governments, think tanks, alphabet agencies and multinational corporations the individuals who think they are part of the "elite" have no idea what they are dealing with.

We are talking about a few thousand complete psychopaths that would murder their own families and then order a steak dinner.

I suspect that the Polish Head of National Security thought that even if the Polish government was in danger there is no way that the elite would be so bold to take them all out at the same time. If this is what he thought he was dead wrong.

The elite killed both Kennedy brothers one after the other for gods sake. They will do anything they have to.

As for Putin I am not sure how invested he in in the NWO. He may just be playing his own little game of cat and mouse with them. "I have the black box, so you better be nice to me".
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: N.E.P. on April 10, 2010, 05:28:33 pm
This from an English speaking Polish site. Pretty good read
http://www.polishforums.com/news-politics-4/polish-president-lech-kaczynski-gov-officials-die-plane-43217/8/

Quote
i seriously doubt this. Russians are last who could seek for his death. On the contrary, Kaczynski presented Polish politician that had identical approach to Kosovo situation as main protagonists of Russian politics.

Then, all happened in Russia. Why would Russia kill Kaczynski in Russia?? If they wanted to kill him, they could initiate (for example) his heard attack in Kaczynski`s own house. when great power wants that you died you simple died. Realy no need to blame Russia on this sad event. Actually, this is great humiliation for Russia, attack on Polish-Russian relations in crucial moment and if you want attack on complete Slavic world- because we all know that, without Polish-Russian agreement as soon as possible, there is no Slavic world.

Who ever killed Kaczynski, he directly provoked Russia.

Who could kill Kaczynski, who could profit from it, who could lose in case that Poles and Russian agree on something/anything?

Saudi Arabia? NATO? EU? Shiftars (Albanians)? Israel? Turkey? France? Britain? Its hard to say. It could be any of them. It could be their united action against Slavic civilization

Quote
Dear friends, Polish President's plane crashed because of fog and decision not to land in Minsk or Moscow. There were 4 attempts to land in fog and the fourth attempt was fatal.
My deep condolences to all Polish people. Please, let's stop all those political hatred between our peoples.

Quote
so, you say that Russia is that incompetent, stupid and idiotic country that can`t provide regular plane to representatives of foreign state, who coming as guests to Russia??? If it is the case then Russia isn`t world power but Russia is world`s greatest sh**.

BUT, we all know that its not the case. It is obvious that somebody decided to humiliate and provoke Russia. Its on Russia to say who is responsible for death of Polish president and not to hide behind comments such is ``plane crashed because of fog``. Its the question of Russian credibility as world power. Russia was responsible for security of Kaczynski.

i hope that Russia can manage to answer on this challenge, or i would conclude that Russia afraid to point with her finger at the those who are responsible. Somebody sabotaged that plane and Russia must say who was that

Quote
Guys - pilots errors and landing in mist - you're over exaggerating, they said in the news that the plane was circling around that old Russian airport for sometime before trying to land to loose all it's fuel, so when they were landing they knew something is wrong with the plane hence dropping the fuel.

Quote
NO, THEY WERE KILLED BECAUSE THEY TRAVELLED ON ONE OF THE WORST MOST UNRELIABLE AIRPLANES........HERE IS A LIST OF ALL THE Tupolev Tu-154 RECENT accidents...THERE WAS MANY MORE BEFORE 2001


# On 4 July 2001, Vladivostok Air Flight 352 from Yekaterinburg to Vladivostok crashed while on approach into Irkutsk, an intermediate stop, killing all 145 people onboard. The cause of accident was pilot error resulting in exceeding the safe angle of attack and the subsequent stall.
# On 4 October 2001, Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk crashed into the Black Sea, probably shot down by an Ukrainian surface to air missile fired during a training exercise. All 66 passengers and 12 crew were killed.
# On 12 February 2002, Iran Air Tours Flight 956: The aircraft hit high ground in the Sefid Kouh mountains outside Khorramabad, Iran while descending for Khorramabad. All twelve crew members and 107 passengers were killed.[24]
# On 1 July 2002, Bashkirian Airlines Flight 2937 collided with a DHL Boeing 757.[25] The accident was caused by problems with the air traffic control system in Zurich and erroneous instructions given by the air traffic controller on duty.
# On 24 August 2004, Sibir Airlines Flight 1047 from Moscow to Sochi crashed after being bombed by an on-board Chechen suicide bomber, killing all 46 people on the aircraft. This happened almost simultaneously with a similar bomb explosion on Volga-Aviaexpress airlines TU-134 flight from Moscow to Volgograd.
# On 22 August 2006, while en route from the Russian Black Sea resort of Anapa to Saint Petersburg, Pulkovo Airlines Flight 612 crashed near the Russian border over eastern Ukraine in an attempt to fly through a weather front. All 160 passengers (including 45 children) and 10 crew were killed.
# On 1 September 2006, Iran Air Tours Flight 945 skidded off the runway as it was landing in Mashhad International Airport and caught fire after a tire blew during landing. The aircraft was carrying 147 passengers, 29 of them died.[citation needed]
# On 15 July 2009, Caspian Airlines Flight 7908 with 153 passengers and 15 crew onboard and traveling from Tehran to Yerevan crashed 16 minutes after take-off near the Iranian city of Qazvin, killing all people onboard. Police reported that witnesses saw the aircraft's tail on fire as it circled and attempted an emergency landing. The crash, in an agricultural field, left a path of wreckage 200 yards long. Authorities were able to locate two out of the three aircraft flight recorders, although they do appear to be damaged.[26][27]
# On 24 January 2010, Taban Air Flight 6437 caught fire upon landing at Mashhad International Airport in Iran. The plane had initially left Abadan, in south-west Iran on Saturday, but bad weather had forced it to land in the city of Isfahan for the night. After taking off again on Sunday, the captain was forced to make an emergency landing at Mashhad International Airport because of a passenger's ill health. The aircraft suffered serious damage as it landed, losing its undercarriage and a wing. 46 people were injured in the incident.[28][29]
# On 10 April 2010, a Tupolev 154 carrying the Polish President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, and central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek crashed upon landing at Smolensk-North air base in Russia killing (As of 4/10/2010 4:00 am, US Mountain Time) all of the 132 passengers.[30]
Quote
Yes, the Russians have killed the Polish president. However they will (successfully) blame Chechen separatists for the crash. Putin, the Great Murderer, is leading the "investigation" into the cause of the crash. I pity Mother Russia and her citizens while yet another despot murders and maims at will. Death to Putin and the rest of the criminals behind this outrageous "accident".
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 05:32:07 pm
More from http://www.globalnaswiadomosc.com/prezydentzginalnowe.htm#googtrans/pl/en


Disaster in Smolensk - new facts (important video)
10-4-2009   23.55

Case disaster in Smolensk increasingly confuses. Witness accounts, hot - just after the accident, there are other than their relations in a few hours later. The official version is - difficult conditions including dense fog and the stubbornness of the President or the pilot. Tusk is the old and the Russian side is also very old.

However, there is the second version:

In www.tvp.info (http://www.tvp.info/informacje/swiat/na-miejscu-byla-potworna-cisza/1642519#googtrans/pl/en) / information relationship statesę editor of the TVP:

"Wisniewski, television editor, was in the hotel, where he assembled the material. The rest of the team has gone to prepare for the ceremony coverage Katyn. The building was located near the airport. - Just I had a moment to spare, was preparing to mount the equipment. Remembered that there is not much is the approach and there are those that approached the plane Tusk Putyina. And I hear the sound of the engine, but the sound was a little different - TVP Info reported in Wisniewski.

- Look in the fog and see a plane that goes very low, left-wing right down. I normally through the window I heard a terrible roar. You could see if something has been destroyed, trampled. Two flashes of fire, but not some big bang, as usual, to see the air disasters - an editor adds. - I immediately thought the plane crashed. Automatically grabbed the camera, as a typical worker of the media. I flew over the mud and they look, it's Polish plane. I immediately noticed a black box, smashed tail, damaged the engine, hull, remains - an employee told Polish TV.

- There was a great fire. Immediately came a fire, but it went to them moderately. But even it was not clear that anyone was killed. So at first I thought it was empty plane. There was a terrible silence and after a disaster - he added. - But this was not such a sight as the ordinary plane crash. I witnessed the events in Kabaty, it looked different. You could see bodies - said Wisniewski.

Wisniewski, who was the first representative of the media took pictures only for a moment. Then he was led out by the emergency services. - Tried to flee from officers, but as I fell into the mud, then I could not. They caught me and told me to give the cassette - said Wisniewski. "

Where are the bodies? At the movies theydesired anything in sight. As a plane flying a few meters above the ground could be broken down so completely?

What she could be the reason for sounding different aircraft? Consider the picture below (source: http://intencje.pl/tu154.jpg):

 (http://www.globalnaswiadomosc.com/tu154.jpg)

Is there really no one noticed the desiredengine in tears TU154 something strange is going on?

Editor TVP said desirede seen unnaturally tilted plane. Is the pilot, at such a low height to perform such a risky maneuver for no reason?

This is even more strange, the desiredemail shortly before the presidential plane landed How to Polish reporters. Some time later he tried to land there, Transportation andŁ, who has done exactly the same strange maneuver, ie, only a few meters above the earths tilt of the wing.

In TVN said, że flight controller was arrested immediately after the accident and no one has seen, let alone had the chance to talk to him. Russian investigative committee under the leaderships Putin took over the black boxes.

We all know the resistance of the Georgian President Kaczynski's case. Now it is easy to suggest the desirede he and the pilot is guilty of everything, and yet we do not know the truth and as you can see, everything could be completely different!

VIDEO - Polish president killed in plane crash - INSTEAD OF THE IMPACT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgw9_DmEWxE&feature=player_embedded
 

We ask again - where the divisions of the body? In the film, do not see anything. This is perhaps the first such case in history, the more inexplicable, since there was almost no fire and the plane was flying at an altitude of just a few meters away!

When we read the discussionę from a local forum in Smolensk, picture of the situation around the disaster supplemented by new facts. How did the tank there? Why is information about the fog is so variable?:

The online forum discussion from Smolensk almost live:

Beric 11:14 - Just as in the area of the tank and the explosion of the plane fell. Details on the event are unknown.

Beric 11:22 - Tank for SAAZom. They say that the military, but nobody knows exactly. Land and almost caught the car on the road near the runway.

Isa 11:28 - Beric, and how the information?

Beric 11:30 -  Info from the witness, he just went along this road and almost caught the plane, called a friend.

Sterh 11:30 - already is in the news. Airplane Polish president.

Belikov 11:32 - It is strange that in such a fog (from the 8th floor barely see the ground) at all someone has decided to fly(here: land - W.)

Gem 11:43 - I'm sitting on the street. Chkalov, what I hear the thunder? and here again, someone softly lands. Whoever ends up in such a fog?

Sterh 11:47 - Unhappy Smolensk land to the Poles. The years 1609-11 are reflected czwawką.

Winzard 11:56 - Morning's wife rode by car - there was no fog.

Red Angel 11:59 - I-11 about the fog had become suddenly dense.
Ferganec

12:06 - What a nightmare for Polish. A Yandex.ru silent. In the chapter "Smolensk" is written, the President visited the Polish Katyn memorał.

source: http://forum.smolensk.ws/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48375


Still waiting for the courage of the Polish media that raised the issue and uncomfortable topics. We look forward to the courage of Polish politicians demanded an immediate and full participation in the investigation.

We have the right to truth, więc should demand it!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: victories on April 10, 2010, 05:38:30 pm
Good research Sane. Well, Lindsey William said NWO-elite plan war in 1,5 years (the way he said it sounded like it was only on the drawing table, so I think by the grace of Jesus there might be hope of avoidance or delay) Anyway, this mega assassination of a whole country's top leaders could give indications that nwo-elite are accelerating their efforts relative to previous and have started to play hard ball.
If this airplane accident was a conspiracy, which it looks like, more evidence will probably emerge, and allot of Polish high officials are upset loosing their close friends and co-workers. There is a potential, might be small, that this could blow back on the NWO-elite

As you know this happened on the anniversary of the russian assassination of Polish generals in world war 2. We know how Illuminati likes to play with dates, and give hints about what they are doing.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:39:12 pm
This is how Putin kills:


(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/21/arts/21polonium-600.jpg)



This is how Kissinger/NATO kills:


(http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/1988_lockerbie2.gif)


Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 05:42:17 pm
More from http://www.globalnaswiadomosc.com/prezydentzginalnowe.htm#googtrans/pl/en


Disaster in Smolensk - new facts (important video)
10-4-2009   23.55

Case disaster in Smolensk increasingly confuses. Witness accounts, hot - just after the accident, there are other than their relations in a few hours later. The official version is - difficult conditions including dense fog and the stubbornness of the President or the pilot. Tusk is the old and the Russian side is also very old.

However, there is the second version:

In www.tvp.info (http://www.tvp.info/informacje/swiat/na-miejscu-byla-potworna-cisza/1642519#googtrans/pl/en) / information relationship statesę editor of the TVP:

"Wisniewski, television editor, was in the hotel, where he assembled the material. The rest of the team has gone to prepare for the ceremony coverage Katyn. The building was located near the airport. - Just I had a moment to spare, was preparing to mount the equipment. Remembered that there is not much is the approach and there are those that approached the plane Tusk Putyina. And I hear the sound of the engine, but the sound was a little different - TVP Info reported in Wisniewski.

- Look in the fog and see a plane that goes very low, left-wing right down. I normally through the window I heard a terrible roar. You could see if something has been destroyed, trampled. Two flashes of fire, but not some big bang, as usual, to see the air disasters - an editor adds. - I immediately thought the plane crashed. Automatically grabbed the camera, as a typical worker of the media. I flew over the mud and they look, it's Polish plane. I immediately noticed a black box, smashed tail, damaged the engine, hull, remains - an employee told Polish TV.

- There was a great fire. Immediately came a fire, but it went to them moderately. But even it was not clear that anyone was killed. So at first I thought it was empty plane. There was a terrible silence and after a disaster - he added. - But this was not such a sight as the ordinary plane crash. I witnessed the events in Kabaty, it looked different. You could see bodies - said Wisniewski.

Wisniewski, who was the first representative of the media took pictures only for a moment. Then he was led out by the emergency services. - Tried to flee from officers, but as I fell into the mud, then I could not. They caught me and told me to give the cassette - said Wisniewski. "

Where are the bodies? At the movies theydesired anything in sight. As a plane flying a few meters above the ground could be broken down so completely?

What she could be the reason for sounding different aircraft? Consider the picture below (source: http://intencje.pl/tu154.jpg):

 (http://www.globalnaswiadomosc.com/tu154.jpg)

Is there really no one noticed the desiredengine in tears TU154 something strange is going on?

Editor TVP said desirede seen unnaturally tilted plane. Is the pilot, at such a low height to perform such a risky maneuver for no reason?

This is even more strange, the desiredemail shortly before the presidential plane landed How to Polish reporters. Some time later he tried to land there, Transportation andŁ, who has done exactly the same strange maneuver, ie, only a few meters above the earths tilt of the wing.

In TVN said, że flight controller was arrested immediately after the accident and no one has seen, let alone had the chance to talk to him. Russian investigative committee under the leaderships Putin took over the black boxes.

We all know the resistance of the Georgian President Kaczynski's case. Now it is easy to suggest the desirede he and the pilot is guilty of everything, and yet we do not know the truth and as you can see, everything could be completely different!

VIDEO - Polish president killed in plane crash - INSTEAD OF THE IMPACT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgw9_DmEWxE&feature=player_embedded
 

We ask again - where the divisions of the body? In the film, do not see anything. This is perhaps the first such case in history, the more inexplicable, since there was almost no fire and the plane was flying at an altitude of just a few meters away!

When we read the discussionę from a local forum in Smolensk, picture of the situation around the disaster supplemented by new facts. How did the tank there? Why is information about the fog is so variable?:

The online forum discussion from Smolensk almost live:

Beric 11:14 - Just as in the area of the tank and the explosion of the plane fell. Details on the event are unknown.

Beric 11:22 - Tank for SAAZom. They say that the military, but nobody knows exactly. Land and almost caught the car on the road near the runway.

Isa 11:28 - Beric, and how the information?

Beric 11:30 -  Info from the witness, he just went along this road and almost caught the plane, called a friend.

Sterh 11:30 - already is in the news. Airplane Polish president.

Belikov 11:32 - It is strange that in such a fog (from the 8th floor barely see the ground) at all someone has decided to fly(here: land - W.)

Gem 11:43 - I'm sitting on the street. Chkalov, what I hear the thunder? and here again, someone softly lands. Whoever ends up in such a fog?

Sterh 11:47 - Unhappy Smolensk land to the Poles. The years 1609-11 are reflected czwawką.

Winzard 11:56 - Morning's wife rode by car - there was no fog.

Red Angel 11:59 - I-11 about the fog had become suddenly dense.
Ferganec

12:06 - What a nightmare for Polish. A Yandex.ru silent. In the chapter "Smolensk" is written, the President visited the Polish Katyn memorał.

source: http://forum.smolensk.ws/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48375


Still waiting for the courage of the Polish media that raised the issue and uncomfortable topics. We look forward to the courage of Polish politicians demanded an immediate and full participation in the investigation.

We have the right to truth, więc should demand it!

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO BODIES

NO FOG

CHECKPOINTS

EVERY SO CALLED  FACT NEEDS TO BE TRIPLE VERIFIED

LOOKS LIKE A PROJECT MOCKINGBIRD FALSE NARRATIVE ALL THE WAY
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:18:13 pm
More on Kissinger assassinations...

Here's a blast from the past!



Cable ties Kissinger to Chile controversy
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iB_ne0iu3fjpzpvdE8pacGLski5AD9F08IH80
By PETE YOST (AP) – 2 hours ago

WASHINGTON — As secretary of state, Henry Kissinger canceled a U.S. warning against carrying out international political assassinations that was to have gone to Chile and two neighboring nations just days before a former ambassador was killed by Chilean agents on Washington's Embassy Row in 1976, a newly released State Department cable shows.

Whether Kissinger played a role in blocking the delivery of the warning against assassination to the governments of Chile, Argentina and Uruguay has long been a topic of controversy.

Discovered in recent weeks by the National Security Archive, a non-profit research organization, the Sept. 16, 1976 cable is among tens of thousands of declassified State Department documents recently made available to the public.

In 1976, the South American nations of Chile, Argentina and Uruguay were engaged in a program of repression code-named Operation Condor that targeted those governments' political opponents throughout Latin America, Europe and even the United States.

Based on information from the CIA, the U.S. State Department became concerned that Condor included plans for political assassination around the world. The State Department drafted a plan to deliver a stern message to the three governments not to engage in such murders.

In the Sept. 16, 1976 cable, the topic of one paragraph is listed as "Operation Condor," preceded by the words "(KISSINGER, HENRY A.) SUBJECT: ACTIONS TAKEN." The cable states that "secretary declined to approve message to Montevideo" Uruguay "and has instructed that no further action be taken on this matter."

"The Sept. 16 cable is the missing piece of the historical puzzle on Kissinger's role in the action, and inaction, of the U.S. government after learning of Condor assassination plots," Peter Kornbluh, the National Security Archive's senior analyst on Chile, said Saturday. Kornbluh is the author of "The Pinochet File: A Declassified Dossier on Atrocity and Accountability."

Jessica LePorin, a spokeswoman for Kissinger, says that the former secretary of state dealt many years ago with questions concerning the cancellation of the warnings to the South American governments and had no further comment on the matter.

Kissinger has dealt with the issue indirectly. Writing in defense of Kissinger in 2004 when the issue arose, William D. Rogers, Kissinger's former assistant secretary of state, said Kissinger "had nothing to do with" a Sept. 20, 1976 cable instructing that the warnings to Chile, Argentina and Uruguay be canceled. Rogers died in 2007.

"You can instruct" the U.S. ambassadors "to take no further action" on the subject of Operation Condor, said the Sept. 20 cable by Harry Shlaudeman, assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs, to Shlaudeman's deputy.

The next day, on Sept. 21, 1976, agents of Chilean Gen. Augusto Pinochet planted a car bomb and exploded it on a Washington, D.C., street, killing both former Ambassador Orlando Letelier, and an American colleague, Ronni Karpen Moffitt. Letelier was one of the most outspoken critics of the Pinochet government.

Nearly a month before the blast, the State Department seemed intent on delivering a strong message to the governments engaged in Operation Condor.

An Aug. 23, 1976 State Department cable instructs the U.S. embassies in the capitals of Chile, Argentina and Uruguay to "seek appointment as soon as possible with highest appropriate official, preferably the chief of state."

The message that was to be conveyed: the U.S. government knows that Operation Condor may "include plans for the assassination of subversives, politicians and prominent figures both within the national borders of certain ... countries and abroad."

"What we are trying to head off is a series of international murders that could do serious damage to the international status and reputation of the countries involved," Shlaudeman wrote in a memo to Kissinger dated Aug. 30, 1976. That memo is referenced in the newly disclosed Sept. 16, 1976 cable containing Kissinger's name.

Concerns among the ambassadors may have led to cancellation of the planned warning.

In the Aug. 30, 1976 memo, Shlaudeman discussed a possibility that the U.S. ambassador in Uruguay might be endangered by delivering a warning against assassination. The U.S. ambassador to Chile said that Pinochet might take as an insult any inference that he was connected with assassination plots.
On the Net:

    * National Security Archive: http://www.nsarchive.org
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 10, 2010, 06:23:27 pm
HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO BODIES

NO FOG

CHECKPOINTS

EVERY SO CALLED  FACT NEEDS TO BE TRIPLE VERIFIED

LOOKS LIKE A PROJECT MOCKINGBIRD FALSE NARRATIVE ALL THE WAY

The Illuminati love using planes to murder their opposition. It's their little thing that keeps them going.
Gary Bell on "A view from space" 640 Am Toronto radio show always make in deep analysis of those typical plane crashes. I suggest you listen to it if interested [ see Audio section of forum - show is Saturday night (tonight) ], it's by far my favourite show.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:25:01 pm
Two scenarios then -
1 - Russian intelligence along with CIA intelligence did this - it isn't really that hard, really - you can get an airplane to crash using 'area denial' techniques.
2 - The CIA did this alone and the Russians didn't know about it.

Tarpley will most likely find scenario 2 most plausible since he says the Chechnen terrorists are working for the CIA to bring down Russia - and Wayne Madsen was pursuing the same train of thought as well.

As for myself, when I look at prior documented history, this is a textbook CIA example. Perhaps that latest START treaty was part of a 'bring both countries on the same page' dialectic - perhaps the Russians have been convinced that it's in their best interests to partner up with the USA - thereby distancing itself from China and by default the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

This is all just speculation - but it's a pretty clear-cut case to me.

Concerning scenario 1, although I find it less likely it does deserve examination. The following are two posts which examine that theory. Like JFK, the twins had multiple enemies (but I think Germany was much more of an enemy than Russia from the evidence, still Putin could have cut a deal)...

This could have been a new "Hitler-Stalin" pact.

Also, some insight into neutralizing any possible catholic church blowback by planned targeting of Ratzinger (benedict arnold of the church).



Twin Pillars of Populism
The Kaczynski Twins Are Taking Poland by Storm

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,378418,00.html
By Susanne Amann in Warsaw 10/06/2005

The two vocal populists are almost impossible to tell apart, but Lech and Jaroslaw Kaczynski are rocketing to the top of Poland's political establishment. Soon, both the prime minister's office as well as the presidency may be in their hands. And they have a plan for what to do with their power.
DPA

Meet the Kaczynski brothers.

All of Poland knows the two small, roundish -- and virtually identical -- men. For weeks, even months, they have been smiling down from campaign posters and parading through the nation's political talk shows. Yet for all their media presence, one question occupies most of the electorate: How does one tell these two apart? After all, Lech and Jaroslaw Kaczynski are identical twins -- and the only differences are a tiny birthmark on one of their noses and the slightly unkempt hair of the other.

The two brothers have become shooting stars in Polish politics. They have both managed to cut through the political apathy of the population and have neatly divided it into enthusiastic devotees or vehement detractors. The two brothers, as it turns out, are not much for middle-of-the-road vapidity. On the contrary. The two are populists -- and they peddle their Catholic-nationalist worldview energetically and with little consideration for their political opponents.

And they are wildly successful. On Sept. 25, the party they both lead, the Law and Order Party (PiS), won the country's parliamentary elections meaning Poland's next prime minister will come from their ranks. This Sunday, the Poles go to the polls again -- this time to cast their ballots for the position of president. Lech Kaczynski, current mayor of Warsaw, is one of the leading candidates. Their successes are being viewed with some trepidation by their neighbors.

Modern day Hitler-Stalin pact

Recently, for example, the two of them attacked a planned natural gas pipeline agreed to by German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and Russian President Vladimir Putin by comparing it with the 1939 Hitler-Stalin pact, which resulted in the partition of Poland. Lech, who is currently the mayor of Warsaw, also made headlines early this year by banning the gay and lesbian parade in Poland's capital. He said the event was damaging to Polish youth.

Mostly, though, the brothers' are characterized by a deep mistrust of Russia and Germany. They were born in 1949 in the rubble of an almost completely destroyed Warsaw. They grew up with the results of the Nazi occupation and under the subsequent hegemony of the Soviet Union. Even now, they are still warning of the danger of allowing Germany too great an influence in the European Union. They are also deeply mistrustful of that group of Germans expelled from Poland following World War II, suspecting them of wanting to someday retake parts of western Poland. Indeed, the two have already threatened that Germany should be made to pay reparations to Poland for World War II damage. For Warsaw alone, Lech has calculated a sum between $30 and 40 billion.

REUTERS

Here's Jaroslaw, who led his Law and Order Party to victors in Sept. parliamentary elections.

The brothers, both trained in law, have been politically active since they went to university together. They were part of the underground and belonged to the Workers' Defense Committee (KOR), a group of academics where many of the Solidarity intellectuals got their start. In 1980, in fact, they were in Gdansk for the founding of Solidarity. That only Lech Kaczynski did a stint in prison in 1981 was pure luck: The police thought that the existence of a second Kaczynski with the same birth date as the first was a typo.


It didn't take long for the two -- known as the "ducks" for a last name that recalls the Polish word for "duck", if not for their physical stature -- to become part of Lech Walesa's inner circle. Following the fall of the communist government in 1989, they both took high positions in the new government, but they quickly butted heads with Walesa. He refused their demand to rigorously cleanse the secret service and military of left-over cadres.

Getting rid of the communists

Which is one reason for their grandiose comeback. Current candidate for president Lech Kaczynski discovered -- as justice minister under former Prime Minister Jerzy Buzek and then as mayor of Warsaw -- just how popular the fight against corruption and lawlessness is among Poles. Even now, many secret service and army members who were active under the communist regime are still in their old positions. Communist structures are still intact, and corruption and cronyism are part of the day-to-day.

REUTERS

And here's Lech, mayor of Warsaw and a candidate for president in Sunday's elections.

And that, if the Kaczynski brothers get their way, will all change. They want to see a more Catholic and more traditional Poland protected by increased presidential authority and restrictions on former communists holding public office. Lech even wants to see much of his political crusade -- including laws infringing on the rights of homosexuals and other minorities -- written into the country's constitution. The twins want to see an unconditional national Catholicism.

It is a development that many analysts connect with the recent death of the Polish Pope John Paul II. The long, painful decline of the pope was accompanied by a new wave of spirituality and a reawakened interest in Catholicism -- especially among younger Poles. And the guidelines being followed by the Kaczynski brothers are also those of the deceased pope: anti-abortion, a traditional role for women and a strong emphasis on community. Of course, such a platform hasn't hindered Lech -- as mayor of Warsaw -- to call for all the homeless in the Polish capital to be resettled in container slums on the edge of the city so they no longer clutter up the center. Hardly a charitable position.

A dash of nationalism with a helping of Euro-skepticism

The two want nothing less than a "Fourth Republic," a new Poland -- a vision reflected in the name of their Law and Order Party. With its mixture of nationalism, populism and Euro-skepticism, the party was already wildly successful in the 2002 local elections. Lech Kaczynski was voted in to the Warsaw city hall with a large majority and -- on Sept. 25 -- the party came out tops in the parliamentary elections with 27 percent of the vote. Coalition negotiations with the liberal Civic Platform (PO) -- which took 24 percent of the vote -- are ongoing.

Jaroslaw's decision to forgo the office of prime minister in favor of the less-well-known Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz surprised many observers, though. It is assumed that the move is intended to improve his brother's chances of winning Sunday's presidential elections. He would then -- with both the prime minister and president coming from his party -- pull the strings in the background. Both he and his brother have said they don't plan on having both offices in their family at the same time.

It's a tactic that seems to be working. For weeks, the PO candidate Donald Tusk has been leading Lech in the Poles by as much as 10 percentage points. Now, that lead has shrunk to just 37 percent for Tusk against 33 percent for Lech. And even though coalition talks between the PO and his own Law and Order Party are continuing, Lech misses no opportunity to portray Tusk as a heartless fiscal liberal and himself as the voice of social justice.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski has affirmed that -- even should his brother lose on Sunday -- he will stay in the background and allow Marcinkiewicz to become prime minister. Many Poles, though, don't believe him. They assume that a final decision as to who will be Poland's next prime minister will only come after the presidential election.

And with both of them potentially leading Poland, telling them apart may be that much more important. Here's another difference between the two: Lech is married and has a daughter. Jaroslaw, on the other hand, still lives at home with his mother and his cats.

didn't the US puppet and the Russian puppet just meet?


President Obama, Russian President Medvedev sign START treaty to reduce nuclear weapons
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/04/08/2010-04-08_president_obama_russian_president_medvedev_sign_nuke_treaty.html
BY Michael Mcauliff  DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Thursday, April 8th 2010, 7:33 AM


New pact against rebellious nations against Brzezinski's planned Cold War II?



(http://cdn.wn.com/ph/img/72/fa/0cd3250fd17c1cf86e398e74f33b-grande.jpg)
"Dude, I am serious, the illuminati hate those twins"
"No way, Putin hates them too"


Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 10, 2010, 06:27:09 pm
Every crime have motive, and i don't see motive for this on Russian side. Thing that i see is:

Constant pressure on Russia by NATO side to provoke conflict.

1. Missile shield, military exercises in Baltic and Black Sea.

2. Sending Heroin from Afghan to Russia, and when Russia says stop with it NATO calmly says no.

3. Moscow Metro bombing done by al-Ciaida.

And now this. Don't you see that NWO is trying to provoke conflict with Russia.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Viper on April 10, 2010, 06:29:36 pm
^^ Plus the Georgia thing.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: GI Jane on April 10, 2010, 06:34:18 pm
Sorry no this is not at all clear to me. It is clear who the players are but who made the move that is not clear at all. It will be clear by who gains from it.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 10, 2010, 06:34:47 pm
Thank you Viper, I posted this before.


Katyn Massacre is a big problem for Russians. Those people in that plane are killed in the worst moment for Russia, in the moment when Russia have big influence in Georgia and Kyrgyztan.

Georgian Opposition Threatens to Repeat Kyrgyz Uprising (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18581)

US-NATO War Plan Undermined? Kyrgyzstan Upheaval Endangers US Route to Afghanistan (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18561)

Great Power Rivalry in Central Asia: Russia Sends Paratroopers to its Airbase in Kyrgyzstan (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18564)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:35:14 pm
^^ Plus the Georgia thing.

plus Poland exposing secret prisons...

but most importantly is monetary policy.

WWIII is all about monetary policy and a one world currency. These Polish leaders said "enough" and paid the ultimate price.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: GI Jane on April 10, 2010, 06:38:52 pm
This may be why.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wGR6hkQ_FI&feature=player_embedded

The elite are planing a World War that will cost us about 5 trillion says Bob Chapman
Jason Bermas replacing Alex Jones talks with regular guest, Bob Chapman, the man behind The International Forecaster newsletter. Bob Chapman sees a world scale war , depression after recession , deflationary depression that will trash the US dollar , US empire bankrupt and collapsing in order to pave the way to the next phase which is a world government starting with a world financial constitution a world currency and end up with a world leader , the dream of the elite....
they are planing a World War that will cost us about 5 trillion

Bob Chapman : Get your cash out of the Banks and The Stock Market - we will have Bank Holiday and the Stock market will crash by the end of this year
Mr. Chapman also known as The International Forecaster is a 74 years old. He was born in Boston, MA and attended Northeastern University majoring in business management. He spent three years in the U. S. Army Counterintelligence, mostly in Europe. He speaks German and French and is conversant in Spanish. He lived in Europe for six years, off and on, three years in Africa, a year in Canada and a year in the Bahamas.

Mr. Chapman became a stockbroker in 1960 and retired in 1988. For 18 of those years he owned his own brokerage firm. He was probably the largest gold and silver stockbroker in the world during that period. When he retired he had over 6,000 clients.
Bob Chapman : you got to remove these people from the government
Starting in 1967 Mr. Chapman began writing articles on business, finance, economics and politics having been printed and reprinted over the years in over 200 publications. He owned and wrote the Gary Allen Report, which had 30,000 subscribers. He currently is owner and editor of The International Forecaster, a compendium of information on business, finance, economics and social and political issues worldwide, which reaches 10,000 investors and brokers monthly directly, and parts of his publication are picked up by 60 different websites weekly exposing his ideas to over 10 million investors a week.

In June of 1991, at the request of business associates, and due to retirement boredom, he began writing the International Forecaster.
Bob Chapman : do not expect the government to guarantee your bank account , it is bankrupt
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 10, 2010, 06:40:12 pm
Motive?

Why? Give me just one good reason why would Russians be behind of it? What they can have from it?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Viper on April 10, 2010, 06:41:21 pm
I just like to say respectfully that Putin does indeed seem devastated in these pics from the crash.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=166288.msg988407#msg988407
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 06:46:20 pm
sorry for double posting, but it I think the most important motive:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/76446-g-7-central-bankers-stymied-by-crude-oil-vigilantes

European Central Bank chief, Jean Trichet, chaired a meeting of central bankers from the “Group of 10” industrialized nations on May 5th, and acknowledged that:

"Inflation risks are significant under the influence of oil and energy price increases, commodity price increases more generally, and food and agricultural products. This is perceived in all economies without exception. This is no time for complacency for central banks in any respect."



So the EU bank chief promotes "Problem/Reaction/Solution" to financial crisis.

How did the Polish Central Bank Chief respond?



“Food pressures are one of the most serious problems that we have to face now,” added Poland’s central bank chief, Slawomir Skrzypek. “But central banks cannot use monetary policy tools to manage this problem,” he said.



Polish Central Bank chief was against using monetary policy to always be in reaction mode. Not a friend to the Keynesian system or the G7/NATO banksters from this information, but requires more research.



"You shall know them by their deeds.."

European Union   

José Manuel Barroso, the President of the European Commission said: "I express my deep condolences to Poland for the passing away of President Kaczyński, his wife and all those with them under such tragic circumstances on their way to mark the 70th anniversary commemoration of the Katyn massacres. I have worked very closely with President Kaczyński, in a spirit of loyalty, and I respected in him a very determined Polish patriot who at the same time was very committed to our European Union and to the values of freedom and solidarity. The European Commission joins me in this moment in the expression of sympathy and tribute."

REALLY?

REALLY?

EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso warns EU member states, especially Poland

AGREE OR ELSE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkMaTB9VpY0&feature=related


Quote

France   

President Nicolas Sarkozy paid tribute to Kaczyński in a statement: "a man driven by ardent patriotism, who dedicated his life to his country."[50]

REALLY?

REALLY?

Sarkozy on an EU without Poland

EUXTV — June 23, 2007 — French President Nicolas Sarkozy speaks out about the prospect for a European Union of 26 nations without Poland...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vmnQcEXSNE&feature=fvw


ANYONE WHO TALKS ABOUT THE POLISH PRESIDENT'S "PATRIOTISM" IS A PRIME SUSPECT IN THE ASSASSINATION!

PATRIOTISM = ANTI-NWO/ANTI-$EURO
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 06:47:39 pm
Guess who wasn't on that plane...


Prime Minister Donald Tusk

(http://www.kprm.gov.pl/files/news/img/Konferencja_8.jpg)
http://www.kprm.gov.pl/en/press_centre/multimedia/photographies/#4470,0

Donald Franciszek Tusk [ˈdɔnalt franˈt​͡ɕiʂɛk ˈtusk] (born April 22, 1957)
is a centre-right Polish politician, co-founder and chairman of the Civic Platform (Platforma Obywatelska), and the Prime Minister of the Republic of Poland.

Since being elected prime minister, relations between Tusk and President Lech Kaczyński have often been acrimonious due to different political ideologies and the constitutional role of the presidency. Using presidential veto powers, Kaczyński has blocked legislation drafted by the Tusk government, including pension reform, agricultural and urban zoning plans, and restructuring state television.  Tusk and Kaczyński have repeatedly sparred over issues ranging from European integration, homosexuality, foreign policy, to constitutional issues, with Tusk taking more socially liberal opinions than the conservative Kaczyński.

In his premiership, Tusk has proposed various reforms to the Polish constitution. In 2009, Tusk proposed changes to the power of the presidency, by abolishing the presidential veto. “The president should not have veto power. People make their decision in elections and then state institutions should not be in conflict," said Tusk. Tusk again reiterated his desire for constitutional reform in February 2010, proposing that the presidential veto be overridden by a simple parliamentary majority rather than through a three-fifths vote. “Presidential veto could not effectively block the will of the majority in parliament, which won elections and formed the government,” stated Tusk. Further constitutional reforms proposed by Tusk include reducing the Sejm from a membership of 460 to 300, “not only because of its savings, but also the excessive number of members’ causes blurring certain plans and projects.” Similarly, Tusk proposed radical changes to the Senate, preferring to abolish the upper house altogether, yet due to constitutional concerns and demands from the junior coalition Polish People's Party partner, Tusk proposed reducing the Senate from 100 to 49, while including former presidents to sit in the Senate for political experience and expertise in state matters. Parliamentary immunity for all members of the Sejm and Senate would also be stripped, except for in special situations. In addition, Tusk proposed that the prime minister’s role in foreign policy decisions would be greatly expanded. By decreasing the president’s role in governance, executive power would further be concentrated in the prime minister, directly responsible to the cabinet and Sejm, as well as avoiding confusion over Poland’s representation at international or EU summits. The oppositon conservative Law and Justice party deeply criticized Tusk's constitutional reform proposals, opting in opposing legislation for the presidency to garner greater power over the prime minister.

In an interview with the Financial Times in January 2010, Tusk was asked if he considered running again as Civic Platform’s candidate for that year’s presidential election. Tusk replied that although the presidential election typically drew the most voters to the polls and remained Poland's most high-profiled race, the presidency had little political power outside of the veto, and preferred to remain as prime minister. While not formally excluding his candidacy, Tusk declared that “I would very much like to continue to work in the government and Civic Platform, because that seems to me to be the key element in ensuring success in the civilisational race in which we are engaged.” A day after the interview, Tusk formally announced his intention of staying as prime minister, allowing his party to choose another candidate.

Controversies

On 27th October 2009, Tusk declared that he wants to partially delegalize gambling. There are some concerns on Internet censorship, as Tusk wants to ban Internet gambling and monitor Internet connections and money transfers.

During the 2009 swine flu pandemic, Tusk defended his government's decision to not purchase swine flu vaccine, citing the lack of testing by pharmaceutical companies and its unavailability to be purchased freely through the market. Tusk criticized other nations' responses to the pandemic. "The eagerness of some countries seems to be excessive and disproportionate to the real epidemiological situation," Tusk stated, referring to the pandemic's relatively low fatality rate. The government's decision drew harsh responses from oppostion members in the Sejm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Tusk


Vladimir Putin and Donald Tusk attend Katyn memorial

VIDEO

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8607605.stm

Russia's Vladimir Putin and Polish counterpart Donald Tusk have marked the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre in a historic ceremony.

In 1943 the Nazis discovered a mass grave in Russia's Katyn forest, where some 20,000 Polish officers were shot by Soviet secret police.

This is the first time Russians have marked the anniversary - for 50 years, the Soviet Union blamed the murders on the Nazis.

It is hoped the ceremony will help thaw relations between Russia and Poland.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: reddog801 on April 10, 2010, 06:51:27 pm
I am simply awed by the fact that the NWO pulled this off right in front of the world and most people just opened their eyes to see a plane crash and then went right back to sleep. This was a HUGE set up. How did they ever get all those heads of state on one plane? Somebody would have been barking very loudly!!!!


The NWO is here. The Police State is here......arm up America, the fight is on.....


Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 10, 2010, 06:52:38 pm
OK for NWO-Bankers-Euro motive, But I don't see Russia in it.

And if Putin is pro-NWO why did he arrest the most powerful Illuminati Bankers and Billionaires in Russia. Then show me one Russian in Bilderberg, CFR, or any other NWO body?

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 06:55:32 pm

Plane crash boosts PM Tusk’s prospects

Web posted at: 4/11/2010 1:28:11
Source ::: REUTERS

WARSAW: The plane crash that killed Poland’s president and leading opposition politicians has removed at one stroke key opponents of Prime Minister Donald Tusk and his ruling centrist Civic Platform (PO).

While a shocking blow to Poland’s body politic, analysts say constitutional mechanisms will ensure there is no power vacuum and there will not be any long-term impact on stability.

The crash will reinforce Tusk’s already considerable dominance of Polish politics and analysts say it may have relatively muted long-term consequences, though they also stress it is too early to predict the full impact of such an unprecedented accident on the national psychology.

President Lech Kaczynski, his top aides, the central bank governor and seven lawmakers from the main opposition Law and Justice Party (PiS) were among 96 people killed when their plane crashed in thick fog near Smolensk in western Russia.

“Today’s plane crash will raise concerns about (Polish) political stability and relations with Russia, but the outlook is reassuring regarding the institutional transition for the presidency and the central bank,” said Preston Keat, an analyst for Eurasia Group, a London-based political risk consultancy.

“The leading political and policy actors will move quickly to stabilise the situation.”

Kaczynski, 60, and his twin brother Jaroslaw, who heads PiS and was not aboard the plane, have spearheaded opposition to Tusk’s pro-market economic policies, his embrace of the European Union and his push for early adoption of the euro. Lech Kaczynski, known for his combative nationalism, his devout Roman Catholicism and deep distrust of both the EU and of Vladimir Putin’s Russia, had been expected to seek a fresh five-year mandate in a presidential election due this autumn.

Under Polish law, parliamentary speaker Bronislaw Komorowski is now acting president and the election will take place by the end of June. Komorowski, 58, is the candidate of Tusk’s Civic Platform (PO) and opinion polls have shown him winning the post. The candidate of the small leftist opposition SLD, Jerzy Szmajdzinski, also died in yesterday’s crash.

In Poland, the government holds most power but the president has a say in foreign policy and can veto laws. Kaczynski irked Tusk’s government by blocking media, health and pension reforms.

“When all the dust has settled, I don’t think this tragedy will fundamentally change Poland’s situation economically or in any other way,” one government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters.

“There are a lot of uncertainties at the moment. People are very upset, but the risks seem relatively limited. Poland’s democracy should prove its resilience. The constitution states clearly what must happen,” he said.

“The presidential election campaign will be difficult, but I expect people will show restraint in these circumstances,” the government official said. Many expect an upsurge of sympathy for Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=United+Kingdom+%26+Europe&month=April2010&file=World_News2010041112811.xml
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 07:04:22 pm

Polish President Kaczynski, Who Vowed ‘Moral Revolution,’ Dies

By Nathaniel Espino and Marta Waldoch

April 10 (Bloomberg) -- Polish President Lech Kaczynski, a former anti-communist dissident who came to power with his twin brother in 2005 promising a “moral revolution,” died in a plane crash in Russia. He was 60.

Kaczynski was killed during a landing near Smolensk, Russia, where he was to pay tribute to more than 4,000 Polish military officers massacred by Soviet secret police in the Katyn forest. His wife, Maria, and central bank Governor Slawomir Skrzypek also lost their lives.

“Five years ago I experienced the death of the Holy Father,” Roman Catholic Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz said at a news briefing carried live on Polish public television, referring to the late Pope John Paul II. “Now we have a similar tragedy. This is a great tragedy for the Polish nation.”

Kaczynski was elected in October 2005, the month after the Law & Justice party he co-founded with his brother Jaroslaw won a parliamentary election. Jaroslaw later became the prime minister, giving the identical twins control of both the presidency and the government.

The brothers pledged to stamp out corruption and break up “the system,” which they saw as rife with communist-era officials who controlled politics and business in the country of 38 million people. Their goal suffered a setback in 2007 when voters kicked Jaroslaw out in early elections after his governing coalition fell apart. Poles then voted in current Prime Minister Donald Tusk, who had lost the presidency to Lech Kaczynski in 2005.

Policy Disputes

After Tusk took office, he and Kaczynski clashed over the president’s role in foreign policy, on issues including the U.S. missile defense program and the appointment of a NATO secretary general.

In 2008, Kaczynski chartered his own plane to attend a European Union summit in Brussels after Tusk’s government said his presence at the summit would make Poland’s work “too difficult” and refused to allow him a government aircraft. He was endorsed by Law and Justice for a presidential election due later this year, for which he was trailing in opinion polls. He was expected to announce his bid for reelection next month.

Lech Kaczynski was born on June 18, 1949. His father, Rajmund, served in Poland’s Home Army resistance during World War II, fighting in the Warsaw Uprising of 1944.

Child Actors

Lech and Jaroslaw became child stars in 1962 when they appeared in “The Two Who Stole the Moon,” a film about troublemaker twins who decide to steal the moon and sell it so they wouldn’t ever have to do any work.

Lech Kaczynski became involved in Poland’s anti-communist opposition in 1976, according to a biography on the presidential Web site. He was jailed in the 1980s for his work with the anti- communist Solidarity trade union founded by Lech Walesa.

Walesa was elected Poland’s first post-communist president in 1990 and the Kaczynski brothers broke with him in 1991, feuding publicly with the Nobel laureate.

Kaczynski returned to politics in 2000-2001, serving as minister of justice, and was elected mayor of Warsaw in 2002- 2005, where for two consecutive years he refused to let gay- rights activists hold an “Equality Parade.”

Kaczynski earned a doctorate in law at the University of Gdansk in 1980, writing a dissertation on labor law.

Kaczynski and his wife are survived by a daughter, Marta, and her two daughters, Ewa and Martyna.

To contact the reporters on this story: Nathaniel Espino in Warsaw nespino@bloomberg.netMarta Waldoch at mwaldoch@bloomberg.net
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: larsonstdoc on April 10, 2010, 07:07:55 pm
Motive?

Why? Give me just one good reason why would Russians be behind of it? What they can have from it?

  THERE ARE PAGES AND PAGES HERE OF REASONS WHY THE RUSSIANS ARE BEHIND THIS.  Start reading these posts.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: votewritein on April 10, 2010, 07:14:21 pm
As well as the president and his wife, Maria, a number of senior officials were also said to be on the passenger list.

They included the army chief of staff Gen Franciszek Gagor, central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek and deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer. 


From BBC

I'd almost be willing to bet that central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek was the target.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:15:13 pm
  THERE ARE PAGES AND PAGES HERE OF REASONS WHY THE RUSSIANS ARE BEHIND THIS.  Start reading these posts.

where?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:15:43 pm
I'd almost be willing to bet that central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek was the target.

he was definitely the main target, the rest were cannon fodder to the illuminati
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:17:45 pm
This remains one of the most concise and logical assessments of the recent events:


I think it is possible that Russia is the fall guy for all the "conspiracy theories" why the Plane carrying the Polish president and staff crashed. By opening old wounds between Poland and Russia the old tactic of divide and conquer is employed to make sure that the russian and polish people don't get along.

Not to mention, diverting the flak away from the European Union and NATO who might be the real culprits of the crash since Kaczynski was "JFK'd" due to his opposition of the Euro and the european common market.

This is also the worst place that such a crash could have taken place, the polish people fiercely hate Russia, I am actually surprised it hasn't led to a declaration of war.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 07:27:45 pm

A glance at some of the most prominent victims of the crash of Poland's presidential plane, according to the official passenger list, released by the president's office.

Lech Kaczynski, 60. Poland's president, a nationalist conservative who had been in office since 2005. A founder of the Law and Justice party, now in opposition, and the twin brother of its leader, former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

Maria Kaczynska, 66, Poland's first lady; an economist and translator of English and French, had carried out charity work in her role as first lady. Her uncle was killed at Katyn.

Gen. Franciszek Gagor, 58. Army chief of staff since Feb. 2006. From 2004 to 2006, was Poland's representative at NATO in Brussels.

Gen. Andrzej Blasik, 47, head of the Air Force since 2007. Received professional military education in Montgomery, Alabama, in 2005.

Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta, 51, Navy chief commander since November 2009. From 2002-2005 served at the Supreme Allied Command Atlantic, SACLANT in Norfolk, Virginia.

Gen. Tadeusz Buk, 49, land forces commander since Sept. 2009. Served in 2007 as commander of Polish troops in Iraq.

Slawomir Skrzypek, 46, president of the National Bank of Poland since 2007. A longtime colleague of Lech Kaczynski, served under him at Warsaw City Hall from 2002-5.

Aleksander Szczyglo, 46, head of the National Security Office, a former defense minister under Kaczynski's brother.

Jerzy Szmajdzinski, 58, a deputy parliament speaker, left-wing lawmaker and the opposition Democratic Left Alliance's candidate for presidential elections this year. Served as defense minister at the time of the Iraq war.

Ryszard Kaczorowski, 90, from 1989-90 Poland's last president-in-exile in London. In December 1990, passed on the insignia of the presidency to the first democratically elected president, Lech Walesa, in a high-profile ceremony.

Janusz Kurtyka, 49. A historian; since 2005 head of state-run National Remembrance Institute, which investigates communist-era crimes.

Anna Walentynowicz, 80, Solidarity activist. Her firing in August 1980 from the Lenin Shipyards in Gdansk sparked a workers' strike that spurred the eventual creation of the freedom movement, of which she became a prominent member.

Piotr Nurowski, 64, head of Poland's Olympic Committee.

Krystyna Bochenek, 56, deputy parliament speaker, member of the prime minister's Civic Platform party.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/04/10/2010-04-10_list_prominent_victims_who_died_in_russian_plane_crash_that_killed_president_lec.html#ixzz0kkM8lFjB

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/04/10/2010-04-10_list_prominent_victims_who_died_in_russian_plane_crash_that_killed_president_lec.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: victories on April 10, 2010, 07:29:17 pm
"The presidential plane was fully overhauled in December, the general director of the Aviakor aviation maintenance plant in Samara"

Aviakor aviation maintenance plant: Owned by "Putins most faithful (source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/5446293/Vladimir-Putin-takes-Oleg-Deripaska-to-task.html) oligarch: Oleg Deripaska..
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:29:26 pm
how do we know that they all were on the same plane?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Pierce2378 on April 10, 2010, 07:36:16 pm
even better question is how do we even know there were people on the plane?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 07:40:35 pm
has one body been recovered?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:03:07 pm
Spain's and Poland's Road to NATO: the problem of continuity and change in the foreign policy of a democratising state 
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/102649723-60549238/content~content=a902563740&db=all
Author: Beata Wojna a (Show Biography) Affiliation:   a Polish Institute of International Affairs (PISM), Warsaw, Poland

DOI: 10.1080/13507480802370218
Publication Frequency: 6 issues per year
Published in:  European Review of History: Revue europeenne d'histoire, Volume 15, Issue 5 October 2008 , pages 533 - 547
Subjects: European History; World/International History;
Formats available: HTML (English) : PDF (English)
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Abstract
The aim of this article is to compare the Spanish and Polish road to NATO from the perspective of the shape of the foreign policy and its possible restructuring in states undergoing the process of democratic transformation. The study of both cases shows that the reorientation of the foreign policy of a democratising state results to a large extent from external conditions at the global and regional levels although the internal conditions may hinder or accelerate the reorientation. The example of Spain demonstrates that in a firm and stable international system (the bipolar system) it is extremely difficult to change the direction of foreign policy, even if there are internal premises such as democratisation, well-organised opposition supporting the change and social support. In the case of Poland, the flexible and unstable international system made it possible to radically change the direction of its foreign policy. The existing internal premises without the appropriate external context would not have been enough to generate the reorientation of foreign policy. The comparative study of Spanish and Polish cases should be treated as an introduction to the broader analysis on the subject of the restructuring of foreign policy in the democratising state. Democratic transformation processes which took place in Europe from the mid-1970s provide broad empirical material for further scientific work in this area.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:04:17 pm
The Problem of Interoperability of Polish Forces With NATO
http://www.stormingmedia.us/87/8717/A871773.html
Authors: Marek Ojrzanowski; ARMY WAR COLL CARLISLE BARRACKS PA
 
Abstract: Following the collapse of the Iron Curtain in Europe Poland's interests lay in rejoining the Western European cultural society an interest which always existed in Poland's history except for the last forty-five years. In order to facilitate this desire Poland realized the need to create a stable and fixed security system in Europe, since the order established at Yalta had disappeared. From the beginning of the institution of a democratic government in Poland, the NATO Alliance was considered the only stable factor in this part of world. The presence of U.S. forces was seen as a precondition for the stability and security of the region. The Polish eight year effort to gain acceptance to join NATO succeeded in 1999. It accelerated a difficult period of transforming not only for military structures, but also for the entire nation as a whole. This paper will attempt to focus on the primary challenges concerned with the interoperability of Polish military forces with those of the other nations who belong to NATO. While the principle areas have been identified, some delay will take place before complete integration is completed. The purpose of this document will be to define some of those areas which require further effort before meeting acceptable standards.
Limitations:   APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE
Description:   Strategy research
Pages:    34
Report Date:   07 MAR 2000
Report Number:    A871773
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:08:48 pm
Poland and the Future of NATO
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~sarmatia/999/chodakiewicz.html

NATO Enlargement: Strategic Impact on Poland's Security
http://www.stormingmedia.us/97/9781/A978194.html?searchTerms=poland

Poland's Role in European and World System of States 1979-2007
http://www.stormingmedia.us/72/7253/A725384.html?searchTerms=poland

The Key Role of NATO Accession on Poland's Democratic Transition
http://www.stormingmedia.us/20/2096/A209604.html?searchTerms=poland

Poland, NATO, and the Bear
http://www.stormingmedia.us/66/6650/A665044.html?searchTerms=poland

Polish Foreign and Security Policy: Dilemmas of Multi-National Integration and Alliance Cohesion, 1989-2005
http://www.stormingmedia.us/78/7865/A786534.html?searchTerms=poland
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:22:12 pm
Bloomberg exposes motive...



Polish Central Banker Skrzypek Was Often at Odds With Cabinet
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-10/polish-central-banker-skrzypek-was-often-at-odds-with-cabinet.html
April 10, 2010, 12:12 PM EDT
By Monika Rozlal and Douglas Lytle

April 10 (Bloomberg) -- Polish central bank Governor Slawomir Skrzypek, who died today in a plane crash along with President Lech Kaczynski, frequently found himself at odds with the government and colleagues over monetary policy.

In the weeks leading up to his death, the 46-year-old Skrzypek was caught up in his latest battle, this time over relations with the International Monetary Fund and rules for calculating the central bank’s profit, which the government wanted to use to reduce the state budget deficit.

It was his association with the president and the Law & Justice party that led to his being named in 2007 to lead monetary policy in the European Union’s largest former communist country. With no prior central bank experience, Skrzypek drew on his time running Poland’s largest bank PKO Bank Polski SA.

“I remember Governor Skrzypek as a young man who was learning fast and was persistently pursuing his goals,” Marian Noga, a former member of the Monetary Policy Council who worked with Skrzypek for three years, said in a phone interview today. “The Polish economy has made enormous progress in recent years and Skrzypek also had some contribution to it.”

It may be the policy conflicts, however, that serve as a lasting reminder of his time in power.

‘Not Telling the Truth’

“You are not telling the truth,” Skrzypek scrawled on a piece of paper he then thrust at policy maker Anna Zielinska- Glebocka during a press conference broadcast on live television on March 31. Zielinska-Glebocka read the note out to reporters.

At the center of contention was the approval of new rules about how the central bank calculates its profit.

“The management board doesn’t accept the new rules because they aren’t valid,” Skrzypek said, sitting next to Zielinska- Glebocka, who backed the changes.

Among “numerous legal faults,” he cited the Monetary Policy Council’s decision to make the changes retroactive to 2009 and the rate-setting body’s failure to wait for an opinion from the European Central Bank.


Skrzypek took the reins of the Narodowy Bank Polski on Jan. 10, 2007, moving from the country’s leading lender PKO Bank Polski SA, where he was acting chief executive officer.

Skrzypek replaced Leszek Balcerowicz, who called for quick adoption of the euro, while he himself always stressed that Poland shouldn’t rush with switching the currencies until “it’s advantageous for the country.”

Critical Colleagues

    His views often drew criticism from colleagues and the government of Prime Minister Donald Tusk, who has been seeking to cut the budget deficit enough to get the country into the euro area.


“It’s easy to imagine how weak our bargaining position will be in euro-adoption talks if conflicting messages are coming not only from the government and the central bank, but even from the different structures within the bank itself,” former central banker Andrzej Wojtyna said yesterday in an article written for newspaper Rzeczpospolita.

Skrzypek, who headed the central bank’s management and chaired the council, identified “himself more with the management” and tried “to limit the council’s significance against other departments of the bank,” Wojtyna said.

Engineering Background

Born in Katowice, southern Poland, Skrzypek graduated from the Technical University in Gliwice as a construction engineer and later studied at the Warsaw School of Economics in Warsaw, according to his official biography at the central bank.

In 1997, he received a Masters of Business Administration from the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse, as well as a business management diploma from Georgetown University.

He started his career at the National Audit Chamber, where he worked between 1993 and 1997, dealing with financial audits of the government and local government institutions as well as the banking industry.

He later became deputy head of the National Fund for Environmental Protection and Water Management and between May 2001 and January 2002 he served on the management board of national railway PKP SA.

In November 2002 he became deputy mayor of Warsaw and close to Lech Kaczynski, who was then serving as mayor. In December 2005 he was named deputy chief executive officer at bank PKO BP SA.

During his studies at the Gliwice Technical University, he got involved in anti-communist activities through membership in the opposition Independent Student Association. He was held for six months in 1982 for involvement with the opposition during Poland’s state of emergency.

Skrzypek, with his wife, Dorota, had three children.

Zielinska-Glebocka said in a telephone interview today she was “deeply moved” by Skrzypek’s death.

“This is an unbelievable disaster and tragedy,” she said. “I’m deeply shocked and devastated. I know that the governor had small children and I can only imagine his family’s pain.”

--Editors: Alan Crosby, James M. Gomez
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:23:40 pm
Poland and the euro
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_and_the_euro

Under the terms of the Treaty of Accession 2003, all new Member States "shall participate in the Economic and Monetary Union from the date of Accession as a Member State with a derogation", which means that Poland is obliged to introduce the euro, which will replace its current currency, the Złoty.

On 10 September 2008, speaking at the launch of an economic forum in a Polish resort of Krynica-Zdrój, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk announced the ruling government's objective to join the Eurozone in 2012. However, since the Polish constitution will need to be changed first[1] and they will have to join the ERM 2 before second quarter 2009[2], a target date that is still very aggressive. Regardless, on 28 October 2008 the Polish government confirmed their plan to join the Eurozone in January 2012.[3]

Lech Kaczyński said on news conference that it is unable to join Eurozone before 2015, and even that date is still very optimistic. Also, Polish government officials had confirmed that Poland won't join Eurozone in 2012. [1] The Polish government is going to show the new eurozone join plan in the third quarter of 2009.

On 5 November 2009, speaking at the news conference Polish Deputy Finance Minister Ludwik Kotecki said the government may announce a national strategy for euro adoption in mid-2010. [4]In an interview for Rzeczpospolita daily 22 October 2009 he also said Poland could adopt the euro in 2014 if the general government deficit is reduced in 2012.[5]

On Friday, 11 December Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Poland could join the eurozone in 2015[6]. Speaking during Finance Ministry-organized seminar on the euro-adoption process on 15 December 2009 Deputy Minister of Finance Ludwik Kotecki said the year 2015 is more likely than 2014, however he declined to specify the official target date[7].

There is no official information on the design process for the Polish national sides of the euro coins.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:28:15 pm
http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/03/30/polands-star-crossed-love-with-the-euro/tab/article/

In autumn 2008, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, announced out of the blue that we will adopt the euro in 2012. Even as he spoke, such an early date was technically impossible. The next 18 months later and Poland has moved nowhere nearer to this ambition.



looks like Donald Tusk is the illuminati's inside man!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 10, 2010, 08:35:37 pm
And Tusk had just met with Putin, suggesting at least his (Putin's) complicity.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:38:12 pm
And Tusk had just met with Putin, suggesting at least his (Putin's) complicity.

what they have over putin...

mind control joint studies

space weapons joint work

food for the past 100 years US has provided russia with food

energy pipelines

and of course anti-putin journos seem to have a 1,000x greater mortality rate than pro-putin journos
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:48:53 pm
OECD urges Poland to pave way to euro with fiscal reforms
http://news.malaysia.msn.com/business/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4018601
By Agence France-Presse, Updated: 4/8/2010

Poland should prepare the ground for euro adoption by broadening the tax base to shore up public finances, the OECD said Thursday in its 2010 economic survey.

"Developing the capacity to stabilise the economy once monetary and exchange rate policies are abandoned is the priority," the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development urged Poland, the only EU state to maintain GDP growth, which came to 1.7 percent last year.

The OECD also insisted that fiscal discipline -- itself a key criteria for eurozone entry -- be restored.

"Consolidating public finances should be achieved by broadening the tax base; reducing the generosity of support to farmers; extending the retirement age, especially for women; further diminishing early retirement; saving on disability benefits; and improving public administration efficiency."

In January, Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk vowed that euro-hopeful Poland would meet a key condition for joining the eurozone by reducing its public deficit to 3.0 percent of gross domestic product by the end of 2012.

Poland's public deficit hit 7.2 percent of GDP in 2009 and is expected to rise to 7.0 percent in 2010 as the government maintains spending levels to keep the economy on track.

Brussels has given Poland, which joined the EU in 2004, until 2012 to rein in its public deficit under the 3.0 percent of GDP limit specified by the Maastricht Treaty governing criteria for entry into the eurozone.

Poland abandoned its 2012 target for adoption of the euro last year as the public deficit rose and the value of its currency, the zloty, tumbled due to the global financial crisis.

Tusk recently mentioned 2015 as a possible new target date for the eurozone.

Poland's recorded growth of 1.7 percent in 2009, official data showed Thursday, making the ex-communist country the only member in the 27-state EU to have sustained momentum despite the global economic crisis.

The Paris-based OECD, which groups 30 countries and seeks to support sustainable economic growth through research and expertise, also praised Poland's 2009 performance and crisis response.

"Poland's economic performance in 2009 was strong, given the downturn. Although excess demand was substantial prior to the crisis, the external imbalance was modest relative to some neighbours' and contagion was contained," the report said.

The macro-policy response of Tusk's liberal-leaning government to the crisis "were largely appropriate," it added, noting "the sharp depreciation of the zloty cushioned the impact of foreign shock, but contributed to the postponement of euro adoption."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:52:14 pm
Good article (2 days ago) to see the impact on the NWO one currency plan by Greece and  Poland and their insatiable desire of centralized/pharaoh control over all monetary policy:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-08/north-south-divide-may-hurt-euro-region-more-than-greek-crisis.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:55:10 pm
uggggggggghhhhhhhh!

yup, looks like the local cops got a bag of money to look the other way...




Putin,Tusk agree to long-term Russian natural gas supplies to Poland
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=15000333&PageNum=0
08.04.2010, 00.58
   
SMOLENSK, April 8 (Itar-Tass) -- Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk agreed to long-term Russian natural gas supplies to Poland.

Putin told journalists after the talks on Wednesday that the relevant documents would be signed shortly.

At the same time, he stressed that gas cooperation had not been discussed as a separate issue at the talks. “The Polish side has long been raising the issue of increasing Russian gas supplies, and business entities have generally come to agreement,” Putin said, adding that the documents formalising this agreement would be signed shortly.

He was referring to a long-term contract for gas supplies up to 2037 and a transit agreement up to 2045.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 08:58:12 pm
Russian, Polish leaders mourn Stalin-era massacre
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9EU7UU80.htm
MOSCOW

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin is hosting his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk in Katyn, the site of Stalin-era massacres of Polish troops during World War II.

Putin's attendance at the Russian memorial ceremony for 22,000 Polish prisoners of war killed by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin's secret police in 1940 is an unprecedented gesture of good will and reconciliation. It also appears to be part of a broader Kremlin charm offensive toward Eastern Europe.

Putin is the first Russian leader to commemorate the Katyn massacres alongside Polish leaders
, though Russia has not recognized the massacres as a war crime and Soviet archives on the matter remain sealed.

Katyn is near Russia's border with Belarus.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 08:58:49 pm
Polish PM Tusk cancels visits to US, Canada
AFP: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:33 PM

(http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/41524/1d/news.globaltv.com/Polish+Tusk+cancels+visits+Canada/2788261/2788256.bin?size=sw380nws)
Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin (L) and his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk attend a video conference as they visit the site of a Polish government Tu-154 aircraft crash, at the airport in Smolensk. A plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski and much of the country's military and state elite crashed in thick fog in Russia on Saturday killing all 96 people on board in a blazing inferno.

Photo Credit: Alexey Nikolsky, AFP/Getty Images


WARSAW, (AFP) - Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk has cancelled a visit to Washington Monday for a summit on nuclear terrorism following the air crash in Smolensk, western Russia, in which President Lech Kaczynski lost his life.

He also cancelled a visit to Canada scheduled for next week, the government press office announced.

"Following the air disaster near Smolensk, Prime Minister Donald Tusk has cancelled his visits to Washington and Canada scheduled for next week," the office said.

Tusk returned from Smolensk, where he visited the crash site, to Warsaw early Sunday. A special cabinet meeting was to be held later in the day.

Kaczynski and many other leading Poles were killed in the accident that claimed 97 lives.

Read it on Global News: Polish PM Tusk cancels visits to US, Canada
http://news.globaltv.com/Polish+Tusk+cancels+visits+Canada/2788261/story.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:02:25 pm
Poland warns Belarus on crackdown
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1449d860-1a55-11df-a2e3-00144feab49a.html
By Jan Cienski in Warsaw

Published: February 16 2010 23:33 | Last updated: February 16 2010 23:33

A crackdown by Belarusian authorities against the leaders of the former Soviet republic's Polish minority is prompting Warsaw to warn that the wave of arrests could harm the recent warming between Belarus and the European Union.

Belarus has arrested several dozen Polish activists, sentencing some to five-day jail terms, and levying a 1m rouble ($360) fine against Andzelika Borys, the leader of the delegalised Union of Poles in Belarus, after the activists protested the confiscation of a Polish cultural centre in the Belarusian town of Ivyanets.

Andrzej Kremer, Poland's deputy foreign minister, warned on Monday that if repressive measures were not halted, Belarus would isolate itself from the EU.

“People directly responsible for repressions against Poles in Belarus will not have the right to enter our country,” he said.

Radoslaw Sikorski, Poland's foreign minister, met on Friday in Warsaw with his Belarusian counterpart, Sergei Martynov, and reportedly warned him about the consequences of the anti-Polish measures.

Until recently, Poland had been a strong advocate of improving ties with Belarus, frequently dubbed Europe's last dictatorship for the authoritarian government of Alexander Lukashenko, the president.

Mr Kremer's concerns were echoed by Jerzy Buzek, the president of the European Parliament, who called Minsk's actions “unsettling” and noted that they seemed to be aimed at the political opposition in general, and not just against the Polish minority. A parliamentary mission is scheduled to travel to Belarus next week to investigate.

Belarus, a country of about 10m, has a Polish minority of about 400,000, a remnant from pre-war times when western Belarus was a part of Poland. The Union of Poles in Belarus became the country's largest nongovernment organisation after most opposition groups were driven underground by Mr Lukashenko, prompting the government to form a pro-regime Polish organisation in 2005 which took over the assets of the independent group.

Mr Lukashenko's government was pushed to warm ties with Europe when his Russian allies tired of propping him up through cheap oil and gas and began to demand world prices for energy. Belarus's ramshackle economy needed investment and new markets to survive, and Mr Lukashenko released all of his political prisoners in 2008 as a way of improving relations with the west.

However, in recent months the government seems to have changed tack, occasionally arresting Belarusian dissidents as well as clamping down on the Polish minority.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: CheneysWorstNightmare on April 10, 2010, 09:03:46 pm
Sane---

Do you think the powers took out the Poland regime?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 09:05:06 pm

Another Chair Affair?

March 25, 2010

Following the so-called “Chair War” when President Kaczyński and Prime Minister Tusk were at loggerheads about who would attend the EU summit, emotions seemed to have calmed down. However, not so. Another round of political handbags at ten paces seems likely. There were frayed nerves when Poland’s President and Prime Minister could not agree about who would attend the Katyń memorial together with Russian Prime Minister Putin in April. Their public spats do not show any signs of abating – the Office of the President has demanded to know what the Prime Minister’s plans are regarding the Nuclear Summit in Washington on the 12-13 April. Not only can the two not agree on who will attend but their respective policies on American involvement in Europe seem to be vastly different. Kaczyński wants a greater US presence in Europe, whereas Tusk takes a more cautionary approach.
Rzeczpospolita

http://newzar.wordpress.com/category/donald-tusk/
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: CheneysWorstNightmare on April 10, 2010, 09:06:57 pm
Here is my fear:

This is the beginning!  The NWO is making its stand NOW.  We better watch out for DC on the 15th and 19th.  The shit is about to happen!!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:10:35 pm
Belarus has a lot to lose with a Poland/Russian agreement, they are no longer valuable as an EU buffer.

were NATO/G7/CIA/France/Germany meeting recently with Belarus illuminous?



Belarus: Capitalism's Unlikely Frontier
With Russian subsidies declining, President Lukashenko is looking westward for investment

http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/10_16/b4174058701385.htm
By Carol Matlack April 8, 2010, 11:00AM EST


French software startup Abaxia was hunting for an offshore research and development site in 2006 when one of its employees suggested taking a look at his native country, Belarus. "I had to get out an atlas to be sure where it was," recalls Ongan Mordeniz, Abaxia's R&D chief.

Today, more than half of Abaxia's employees work in the former Soviet republic of 9.5 million, wedged between Russia and Poland on the EU's eastern rim. The company and two affiliates employ 85 engineers at a software development center in Minsk near the former Communist Party headquarters, which is now President Alexander Lukashenko's residence. They're among an estimated 10,000 professionals working for outsourcing operations in what is now the region's No. 3 country for such shops, behind Ukraine and Romania, according to the Central and Eastern European Outsourcing Assn.

Why Belarus? After all, two decades after the fall of the Berlin Wall the country still seems sealed in a time capsule, with a centrally planned economy run by an authoritarian leader who is routinely denounced by Western governments for what the U.S. State Dept. terms "frequent serious abuses" of human rights. Minsk (pop. 1.8 million), a tranquil city of wide boulevards, hulking Stalinist architecture, and Soviet-era factories, is an unlikely place to find capitalism's new frontier.

Yet the Lukashenko government is opening the door to investment as never before. Since 2007 it has enacted regulatory reforms and tax relief measures that have vaulted Belarus from 129th place to 58th on the World Bank's ranking of the "ease of doing business" in 183 countries. (Poland ranked 72nd, Russia came in 120th, and Ukraine was 142nd.) The Belarus government says foreign direct investment more than doubled last year, to $4.8 billion, even as investment plummeted in neighboring countries.

American companies may soon join the wave. In late March representatives of Microsoft (MSFT), Cisco Systems (CSCO), Honeywell (HON), and Navistar (NAV) (formerly International Harvester) visited Minsk for meetings with Lukashenko and top business leaders. "We see great opportunities here," says Veronika Prikrylová, Microsoft's business development manager for Central and Eastern Europe. Microsoft is opening a sales office in Minsk this spring and hopes that having a local presence will help it combat piracy. An estimated 80% of software now used in Belarus is illegally copied, Prikrylová says.

Lukashenko is looking westward as Russia pulls back on aid to its neighbor. Belarus' economy has long been kept afloat by Russia, which has supplied it with below-market-priced energy while soaking up exports from inefficient Belarussian factories. Economic growth over the past decade has averaged 7.1% annually. "We are not rich, but the government takes care of us," says Galina Zorina, a retired piano teacher strolling through Minsk with her sister, carrying a spray of willow branches for the Russian Orthodox version of Palm Sunday. Russia has subsidized Belarus to keep it as a buffer against EU and NATO expansion.

The nation has been a high-tech magnet since Soviet times. Minsk was one of the Communist bloc's computer-science capitals, and local universities still turn out 4,000 information technology grads every year. Salaries, which average $1,200 a month for Abaxia's engineers, are only slightly above the $1,160 average for engineers at India's IT outsourcing companies. Yet while some graduates emigrate, the low cost of living in Belarus keeps many at home. "I thought about moving to the U.K., but it's easier to support my wife and kids here," says Alexey Balushkin, 27, a senior software designer at Abaxia.


Belarus also produces world-class specialists in mathematics and physics. That's an attraction to companies such as Invention Machine, a Boston-based group that in 2004 acquired the assets of a Belarus software company. Invention Machine now runs an 80-person lab in Minsk, including a team of computational linguists who develop "semantic engines" capable of extracting and analyzing key concepts from documents in multiple languages. "They have taken the field of natural language processing to a new level," says James W. Todhunter, the company's chief technology officer.

Invention Machine is one of 78 tenants in a high-tech park the government established in Minsk in 2005. All benefit from generous incentives, including exemption from Belarus' 24% corporate income tax and a provision that lets expatriate managers work without having to obtain work permits. "No other country in the region has done this much" to attract IT investment, says Arkady Dobkin, CEO of EPAM Systems, a Newtown (Pa.) outsourcing company with over 2,000 employees in Minsk and a client list that includes Microsoft, Oracle (ORCL), and SAP (SAP).

For now, the outsourcing boomlet is still in its infancy; the estimated $300 million it generates each year is dwarfed by the $2.5 billion in annual oil subsidies Russia has provided. Russia, pushing to get its crisis-hit economy back on track, said in January that it would end most of the subsidies this year. "It's going to get much harder for us," says Georgy Egorov, chairman of Belvnesheconombank, a leading bank in Minsk. To raise cash for the government, Lukashenko has restarted a long-stalled privatization effort. In the past two years the government has sold controlling stakes in two mobile-phone companies to Mobilkom Austria Group and Turkcell (TKC) and has said it will privatize banks. Strategic investors are also moving in. In December, Italy's Finmeccanica agreed to partner with Belarussian companies on engineering, transport, and aerospace projects. "There are few investment opportunities like this left in the world," says Tom Mundy, an economist at Moscow-based Renaissance Capital. Belarus' proximity to Europe, well-educated population, and solid infrastructure add to the appeal, he notes.

Whether global companies are ready to do business with Lukashenko is an open question. Although U.S. and EU sanctions imposed on Belarus in 2006 have expired, he still draws criticism from the West. On Mar. 30, EU Foreign Affairs Minister Catherine Ashton expressed "grave concern" about harassment of opposition figures in the runup to regional elections on Apr. 25.

Companies remain cautious. Navistar, for example, has considered supplying engine technology to MAZ, a Soviet-era producer of trucks and buses. "They need some kind of Western partnership," says Steven Hyde, Navistar's vice-president for international business development. But, he predicts, doing business in Belarus will remain an unappealing sell "as long as there is a high dependence on political personalities instead of the rule of law."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:11:16 pm
Here is my fear:

This is the beginning!  The NWO is making its stand NOW.  We better watch out for DC on the 15th and 19th.  The shit is about to happen!!

please no chicken little posts on this thread.

thanks
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 10, 2010, 09:11:33 pm
Kaczyński wants a greater US presence in Europe, whereas Tusk takes a more cautionary approach.

Precisely.  Cui bono?  The U.S.?  Not really.

Eurocrats?, Putin?, Tusk? Da.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 09:12:49 pm
The inquiry has three versions for the Polish President’s plane crash

10 April 2010 | 21:42 | FOCUS News Agency

Moscow. According to the initial information the pilots of the Tu-154 had tried to land three times at Severnii airport by the town of Smolensk despite the dense fog and the warnings of the dispatchers. There are three versions for the crash so far – bad meteorological conditions, technical failure and pilots error, Russian NTV television reported.
Today’s flight of the Polish President Lech Kaczinski was passing normally but the dispatchers in Belarus started warning about a dense fog near Smolensk. The pilots were offered to land at spare airports but they decided to land here, despite the instructions of Russian dispatchers.

Journalists in Polish media had reported several times President Kaczinski liked to intervene in the actions of the commanders in his plane. Thus one of the pilots was dismissed and was almost arrested after he refused to fulfill an order of his President over security reasons.

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n216142



I can think of at lease 3 more versions that they will never report on...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:14:18 pm
Precisely.  Cui bono?  The U.S.?  Not really.

Eurocrats?, Putin?, Tusk? Da.

eurocrats may have done a deal with Belarus.

Could a strike have been initiated from belarus?

any training exercises in belarus recently?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:18:30 pm
Belarus has some balls...

Belarus Orders Bush, Rice Assets To Be Frozen
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1069461.html
June 26, 2006


Belarusian President Lukashenka (file photo) (ITAR-TASS)
June 26, 2006 -- Belarusian authorities said today they will freeze any assets that U.S. President George W. Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice may hold in the country.

The move is a response to Washington's decision last week to impose sanctions, including a freeze on assets, against Belarusian President Alyaksandr Lukashenka and other officials deemed accountable for the fraud that Western governments believe marred presidential elections in March.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: CheneysWorstNightmare on April 10, 2010, 09:21:00 pm
please no chicken little posts on this thread.

thanks

Understood, brother.  But this seems like to be some serious sh!t.  IMO, the NWO just took out a parliment that didn't want the Euro.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 10, 2010, 09:21:24 pm

Belarus to receive first ever Venezuelan crude
Thu Apr 8, 2010 5:17pm IST

* 80,000-T tanker heading for Odessa
* Venezuela promised to supply 80,000 bpd from May

By Gleb Gorodyankin

MOSCOW, April 8 (Reuters) - Belarus will import its first ever cargo of crude oil from Venezuela in late April or early May in a move that Minsk hopes will help it cut heavy dependence on supplies from Russia, sources told Reuters on Thursday.

Trading and industry sources said an 80,000-tonne crude vessel was heading from Venezuela to Ukraine's Black Sea port of Odessa for further railway delivery to Belarus' Mozyr refinery.

The cargo left Venezuela on April 2 and it will take it some 20-30 days to arrive to Odessa, sources said.

Relations between Russia and Belarus soured over the New Year after Moscow drastically cut supplies of cheap crude to Belarus saying Minsk must pay full export duties on crude it refines for further re-exports of refined products.

Moscow's long-time ally, Belarussian President Alexander Lukashenko, slammed the move and travelled to Venezuela in March in a bid to secure supplies amid shortage of cheap material for Belarussian refineries.

Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez promised that South America's top oil exporter will supply Belarus with 80,000 barrels of per day from in May. [ID:nN15224348]

Russian oil supplies to Belarusian refineries fell by 42 percent in January-March, year-on-year, as the country's refiners could not afford paying full export duties. [ID:nLDE6340E2]

Industry observes carefully watch disputes between Russia and Belarus as they threaten to disrupt Russian flows along the one-million-bpd Druzhba pipeline to European Union members Germany, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and the Czech Republic. [ID:nLDE60Q27P]. (Reporting by Gleb Gorodyankin, additional reporting by Andrey Makhovsky in Minsk)

http://in.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idINLDE6371B720100408?sp=true
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:23:15 pm
I am not sure if Tusk is a bona fide inside man.

Looks like he did a 30-50 year deal with Putin and possibly follow up was going on, like nonstop meetings between the countries using Katyn as cover. Then eurocrats enrolled "big balls" belarus in sending a decapitating messgae to poland (with or without Tusk)



Katyn Killings Commemorated Without a Belarusian Delegation[/color]
http://belarusdigest.com/2010/04/07/2864katyn-killings-commemorated-without-a-belarusian-delegation/

Just as Belarus Digest had predicted, there is no news of a Belarusian delegation attending the ceremony in Katyn, commemorating the 70th anniversary of the Soviet killings of officers of the Polish army.

This even despite the fact that one of the central issues preceding the meeting of Russian and Polish prime ministers Vladimir Putin and Donald Tusk has been the so-called Belarusian List. The list contains names of officers of the Polish Army killed by the Soviets in extermination sites in Belarus (including, very likely, the infamous Kurapaty forest). Russian authorities claim they have not found it in archives. According to Radio Free Europe, Ukrainian and Russian lists have already been found and published.

Not to say about the hundreds of people from Belarus who had been killed in Katyn. In 1940 West Belarus was part of the Second Polish Republic. Many people from the region have served in the Polish army or have just been mobilized after the German invasion in 1939.

BBC Russian edition quotes Belarusian intellectual Liavon Barsceuski who draws parallels between Katyn and Kurapaty:

Here is a person from Minsk. Lieutenant Edmund Menke from Minsk, as the sign says. Overall, there are quite a few people from Belarus here: from Hrodna, from Biaroza (that’s in Polesia), from the Wilno voivodeship, most of which is now Belarus. there are also many unidentified victims, who also could be our compatriots. This memorial is also a memorial for us.

It’s not Russia or Poland to blame for Belarusian authorities ignoring the memory of hundreds of Belarusians buried in Katyn. As already mentioned, Belarusian authorities do not care about organizing a decent memorial in Kurapaty near Minsk. What should one expect in relation to Belarusian graves outside the country?

Still, there is at least some good news indirectly related to Katyn. Today the Belarusian Academy of Arts has awarded Andrzej Wajda, author of the well-known film about the Katyn massacre, an honourary doctorate in recognition of his life‘s work. A symbolic coincidence, if not more.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:30:18 pm
Interesting meetings last month...



NATO, Belarus’ Defence Ministry hold consultations on Partnership for Peace Program

March 1, 2010 - March 2, 2010

http://www.gomel-region.gov.by/en/bottom_menu/news/power?ns_id=15763
01.03.2010   

MINSK, 1 March (BelTA) – A delegation of the NATO Headquarters and the Belarusian Defence Ministry are holding consultations on the Partnership for Peace Program in Minsk, BelTA learnt from the press service of the Belarusian Defence Ministry.

The NATO delegation arrived in Belarus on 28 February. Apart from participation in the program, the NATO representatives and the Belarusian side will discuss the results of the implementation of the program.

On 2 March, Major General Alexander Anisimov, Belarusian Defence Minister’s Aide for Military Policy, will meet with Frank Boland, the Head of the Force Planning Department of the NATO Defence Policy and Planning Division.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 10, 2010, 09:40:39 pm
I think Bloomberg is leaking clues to the public...

Russian, Polish leaders mourn Stalin-era massacre
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9EU7UU80.htm
MOSCOW

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin is hosting his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk in Katyn, the site of Stalin-era massacres of Polish troops during World War II.

Putin's attendance at the Russian memorial ceremony for 22,000 Polish prisoners of war killed by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin's secret police in 1940 is an unprecedented gesture of good will and reconciliation. It also appears to be part of a broader Kremlin charm offensive toward Eastern Europe.

Putin is the first Russian leader to commemorate the Katyn massacres alongside Polish leaders
, though Russia has not recognized the massacres as a war crime and Soviet archives on the matter remain sealed.

Katyn is near Russia's border with Belarus.

That last word totally caught my eye.

Not one other article mentions Belarus when it is such a key piece of information.

Again, not convinced on Tusk yet. He and Putin both look like children who just had their bicycles stolen. I mean they are genuinely sad and have not issued any statement yet. If they were in on it, the talking points would have been ready to go. You cannot be a political leader in Poland and not understand what this means.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: N.E.P. on April 10, 2010, 09:45:37 pm
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/poland/091203/poland-swine-flu

Quote
WARSAW, Poland — Poland is standing alone against the swine flu, as one of the only European Union member states to refuse to place orders for the H1N1 virus vaccine because of the health minister's concerns about its safety.

But now the country’s human rights ombudsman is threatening the health minister, Ewa Kopacz, with prosecution unless she moves on the vaccine.

Kopacz, who is also a doctor, is worried about the vaccine and is refusing to act until the pharmaceutical companies making the vaccine accept responsibility for any side effects, something they have been excused from by the World Health Organization’s declaration of a pandemic.

“If I had a 100 percent certainty that the vaccine was a panacea for the swine flu, I would certainly buy it,” Kopacz said in an interview with radio station Tok FM, adding that she felt drug companies were “covering up” some information about the vaccines.

“I feel that the research on the vaccines lasted too short a time,” she said.

Kopacz’s stand is very different from most of her European counterparts. Mass vaccination programs have begun in France, Germany and Scandinavia, as well as in central European countries like Hungary.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15990

WARSAW, Poland — Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk says his government won't buy vaccines for swine flu that have not been properly tested or from producers who won't take responsibility for possible side effects.

Tusk told reporters Friday that vaccine producers were pressuring governments to buy, but were also demanding that all responsibility and compensation for possible side effects should fall upon the governments purchasing the medicine.

He stressed that the few dozen swine cases in Poland have been mild and no deaths have been reported.

----------------------------------------------------

Poland and the H1N1 Flu: Calm and Unvaccinated
A/H1N1 in Poland
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16109

----------------------------------------------------------

Polish Health Minister Rejects H1N1 Vaccine
http://littlemountainhomeopathy.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/polish-health-minister-rejects-h1n1-vaccine/
--------------------------------------------------------


Polish PM refuses to buy H1N1 vaccine without `guarantee`
http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=622038

-------------------------------------------------

Polish Health Ministry on swine flu jabs issues A/H1N1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhZesZe33cw
------------------------------------------------------

Poland rejects H1N1 vaccine
http://www.polishforums.com/news-politics-4/poland-rejects-h-n-vaccine-41326/

Quote
Old news... Basically it goes like this:
Those big international companies wanted to sell Polish gov, milions of vaccines. Our gov. look at their papers and said:
"wait the minute, it looks like you didn't checked it properly... hm... ok, situation is not rosy with this epidemic in Ukraine. Ok, ok, we (Polish gov.) will buy it, but you have to guarantee it [which means if somebody die/get ill because of it and sue us you (big pharma) will take the blame]"
- Big pharma said:
"no way, we have plenty of others gov. buying it without stupid questions"
and they said to themselfs...
"we have WTO in the pocket, we have army of good paid lobbists, we will break them, stupid little polish politicians..."

But, bad luck happend... Turn out that polish health minister is a tough little lady doctor who has some independent university advisors/professors, and this tough lady doctor got this enorumous pressure on her and said to big pharma "F..K OFF" :-)

It is the exact reason why it wasn't possible to buy this miraculous vaccine in the drugstores. Vaccine producers were afraid of lawsuits in case if something wrong happend.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 10, 2010, 09:55:19 pm
Tusk was likely just a beneficiary.

NATO, Eurocrats, Putin all viable suspects, possibly working together.

Belarus connection sounds plausible/possible.

Direct U.S. involvement, however, would seem at odds with pro-U.S. position of Kaczynski.  U.S. might have been somewhat out of the loop.

Eurocrats could have done an end run within NATO, if NATO was involved.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Okinawa on April 11, 2010, 12:38:52 am
has one body been recovered?

I was wondering about this... no bodies in the videos WTF?

All 97 bodies found at the crash site: Russian minister http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-04/11/c_13245725.htm (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-04/11/c_13245725.htm)
English.news.cn   2010-04-11 02:02:10

MOSCOW, April 10 (Xinhua) -- All the bodies of the victims in the Polish president's plane crash in western Russian have been recovered, Russian Emergency Minister Sergei Shoigu said Saturday.

"All the bodies of the dead have been located," Shoigu told Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin who has arrived at the site of the disaster.

Shoigu said that the bodies would be sent to Moscow for identification.

A highly-placed police source earlier told the RIA Novosti news agency that Polish President Lech Kaczynski's body may have been found, but that "additional tests, including DNA," would be needed to identify many of the bodies.

All 97 people on board died when the Tu-154 aircraft carrying Kaczynski, his wife, and a delegation of senior officials crashed in thick fog while attempting to land at Smolensk airport.

Kaczynski was on his way to a ceremony in nearby Katyn forest to commemorate the murder of some 20,000 Polish officers by Soviet secret police during World War Two.


All plane crash bodies recovered http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/all-plane-crash-bodies-recovered/story-fn3dxity-1225852290952 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/all-plane-crash-bodies-recovered/story-fn3dxity-1225852290952)
    * From: AFP  * April 11, 2010 3:53AM

THE bodies of all killed in the crash yesterday of the plane carrying the Polish president and other top officials have been recovered, Emergency Situations Minister Sergei Shoigu said.

"At this point, the bodies of all the dead have been recovered and they have begun being transferred to Moscow,'' Mr Shoigu told Prime Minister Vladimir Putin who was shown on television inspecting the forest crash site personally.

Vladimir Putin promises swift probe into Kaczynski plane crash http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_vladimir-putin-promises-swift-probe-into-kaczynski-plane-crash_1369930 (http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_vladimir-putin-promises-swift-probe-into-kaczynski-plane-crash_1369930)

Moscow: Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin has promised a swift probe into the cause of the plane crash that killed Polish president Lech Kaczynski and at least 96 others on Saturday.

"We must do everything to help the families and dependants of the victims," Putin told state television following an inspection of the crash site near Smolensk, in western Russia. He also held a minute's silence for the victims there.

Russia's president Dmitry Medvedev had earlier appointed the Kremlin chief as head an official commission of inquiry into the crash.

The bodies of all the victims had now been recovered and would be taken to Moscow, emergency situations minister Sergei Shoigu said meanwhile.

Kaczynski's wife, Maria, the head of the Polish central bank, and much of Poland's military leadership, died in the crash.

Transport minister Igor Levitin has meanwhile accused the Polish pilots of the Russian-built Tupolev TU-154, of having acted on their own authority.

The range of visibility at the crash site amounted to only 400 metres, while prescribed range for landings was 1,000 metres, he said.

The aircraft's flight recorders have been found, Levitin said. The devices would be examined by Russian and Polish experts in Moscow.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: DanishD00D on April 11, 2010, 01:54:22 am
There was an interesting link to a story in russian about the polish president in the danish daily Politiken today.

Although I too am suspicious, it's known that the Polish president had a temper.

In the article linked below a plane of the exact same type is diverted from Tiblisi in Georgia to Azerbaijan, and reportedly the polish president was so furious at the rerouting. Promising an investigation at the highest levels, in an attempt to hold the pilot personally responsible, and have him/her removed from their job. The president felt he was too important to be overruled by trained professionals both in the cockpit and on the ground.

Reported here in the danish paper is that the crashed plane made 4 attempts to land, and that the air crew on the ground NEVER gave them permission to land even once. A russian military plane that should have landed 15 minutes prior to the crash was also denied. Everybody was told to go to Minsk or Moscow and NOT land in Smolensk.

Will be very interesting to hear the black box tapes to hear if the air crew was under pressure from VIPs on board.

Here's the link to the russian article about previous flight where Polish president threatened and intimidated crew to make them follow his orders instead of protocol.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsru.com%2Fworld%2F12aug2008%2Fkolonna1.html&sl=auto&tl=en (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsru.com%2Fworld%2F12aug2008%2Fkolonna1.html&sl=auto&tl=en)

if it doesnt work here's the original article that can be google translated (translate.google.com)

http://www.newsru.com/world/12aug2008/kolonna1.html (http://www.newsru.com/world/12aug2008/kolonna1.html)

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Matt Hatter on April 11, 2010, 02:01:08 am
The BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw says the president was flying in a Tupolev 154, a plane that was designed in the 1960s and capable of carrying more than 100 passengers.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Tupolev_Tu-154.jpg/800px-Tupolev_Tu-154.jpg)

Thats the plane?!

Oh yeah those trees were 2 Miles high or what! Come on someone deliver the goods!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 11, 2010, 02:21:25 am
this is a big blow by the Illuminati, now an entire country will be subjugated to their interests by those traitor in the governement.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 04:51:58 am
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/poland/091203/poland-swine-flu

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15990

WARSAW, Poland — Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk says his government won't buy vaccines for swine flu that have not been properly tested or from producers who won't take responsibility for possible side effects.

Tusk told reporters Friday that vaccine producers were pressuring governments to buy, but were also demanding that all responsibility and compensation for possible side effects should fall upon the governments purchasing the medicine.

He stressed that the few dozen swine cases in Poland have been mild and no deaths have been reported.

----------------------------------------------------

Poland and the H1N1 Flu: Calm and Unvaccinated
A/H1N1 in Poland
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16109

----------------------------------------------------------

Polish Health Minister Rejects H1N1 Vaccine
http://littlemountainhomeopathy.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/polish-health-minister-rejects-h1n1-vaccine/
--------------------------------------------------------


Polish PM refuses to buy H1N1 vaccine without `guarantee`
http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=622038

-------------------------------------------------

Polish Health Ministry on swine flu jabs issues A/H1N1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhZesZe33cw
------------------------------------------------------

Poland rejects H1N1 vaccine
http://www.polishforums.com/news-politics-4/poland-rejects-h-n-vaccine-41326/


cool info on Poland preventing swine flu scam within their borders.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Guns Equal Freedom on April 11, 2010, 04:58:08 am
Seriously, what government in their right mind would almost all their highest ranking officials get on the same airplane!  :o
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: able on April 11, 2010, 05:33:59 am
sorry if its already posted... i have not got the time to read the whole thread.


Poland no longer needs IMF credit line

Quote
The central bank said it could instead provide the IMF with a loan to “help other countries overcome the effects of the global crisis.“

WARSAW, March 29, 2010 (AFP) - Poland's economy is stable and no longer needs its 21.8-billion dollar (16.2-billion euro) credit line from the International Monetary Fund, the Polish central bank said on Monday.

"The situation with the Polish economy and the financial system is sufficiently good ... that it is not necessary to ask the IMF for a further extension of the flexible credit line," the bank said in a statement.

The central bank said it could instead provide the IMF with a loan to "help other countries overcome the effects of the global crisis."

The finance ministry, however, insisted it still wanted to have a reserve at hand if the economy ran into fresh headwinds.

"We are expecting a good deal of shocks in the coming months ... There is still a necessity to ensure that Poland has a supplementary reserve," Deputy Finance Minister Dominik Radziwill said in a statement.

The credit line for Poland was approved in May 2009 and extended for six months in November 2009. It was intended to reassure investors and allow Poland to access credit easily if it needed it, which ultimately it did not.

The announcement came during a visit to Warsaw by the head of the IMF, Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

Poland was the only member of the 27-nation European Union to have experienced growth in 2009 and the IMF this month forecast that its economy will expand by 2.75 percent this year and by 3.25 percent in 2011.

Poland is a former communist-ruled country that joined the EU in 2004.

The IMF introduced the new system of flexible credit lines in 2009 as a safeguard against external shocks during the global economic crisis. Poland and Mexico both secured credit lines under this scheme whilst other countries needed loan arrangements.
http://dalje.com/en-economy/poland-no-longer-needs-imf-credit-line/299894
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: worcesteradam on April 11, 2010, 06:20:08 am
whole lot of terrorism going on in Russia right now.

One of them was right under FSB HQ
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 06:52:40 am
Seriously, what government in their right mind would almost all their highest ranking officials get on the same airplane!  :o

not sure about that story too.

just seems very odd.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: GI Jane on April 11, 2010, 06:59:46 am
This whole past two weeks have been nuts! I can't tell if the Russians are False Flagging to fully return to a Police State or Are the usual suspects trying to destabilize Russia. Which would make sense with the attack on the Polish leadership. Really much is in flux now. I really can't stand intelligence agencies period all of them they are the real terrorists. Humanity would do well to do away with all of them.

Just a question is it possible that some out side player is behind all of these things maybe some group we haven't thought of? Like China? Israel? Iran? or some other Bankster? That we are all missing.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 07:09:48 am
And why isn't there an investigation into these mercenaries who consistently conduct Coup d'etats on sovereign states?

2 weeks ago!




Look Out, Poland! Goldman Sachs invades!
March 26, 2010
(http://fortunepostcards.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/buffett_blankfein1.jpg)


http://www.neoows.com/story/10598785

Goldman Sachs is opening up a branch in Warsaw. Why? To make money, of course, those scheming bastards.

The main lure is advisory work for the Polish government, which plans to sell stakes this year in its energy, insurance, chemical and phone companies to raise $10 billion to finance the widening budget deficit. The economy, the only one in the European Union to avoid a recession, and the Warsaw Stock Exchange, where the total value of listed companies has tripled since 2003, are also attractive, bankers said.

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/Tiktaalik/BlankfeinPickens.jpg)

Look out, Warsaw! Soon you'll have the terrible burden of Goldman Sachs bonus money raining down on you, too.

Goldman Joins Race for $10 Billion Polish Asset Sales [Bloomberg]
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: GI Jane on April 11, 2010, 07:17:45 am
Why has Webster Tarpley been dead silent on this? Could he like everyone in this forum have no idea what is going on? It is just a thought.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 07:21:49 am
Poland mourns president, elite killed in crash
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-04-11-poland-mourns-president-elite-killed-in-crash
GARETH JONES AND LIDIA KELLY | WARSAW, POLAND - Apr 11 2010 07:40

Poles were in deep mourning on Sunday after President Lech Kaczynski and many of the country's ruling elite were killed in a plane crash.

The ageing Tupolev plane crashed in thick fog near Smolensk in western Russia on Saturday, killing all 97 people on board. Kaczynski had been planning to mark the 70th anniversary of the massacre of Polish officers by Soviet forces in a nearby forest.

Tens of thousands of mourners thronged the streets of central Warsaw through the night into Sunday, turning the avenue in front of Kaczynski's palace into a sea of flowers and candles. In this staunchly Roman Catholic country, many sang hymns and prayed. Church doors stayed open for worshippers.

The chief of Poland's armed forces, the head of its navy, its central bank governor, opposition lawmakers and Kaczynski's wife Maria were among those killed in the crash.

"Today in the face of such a drama our nation stays united. There is no division into left and right, differences of views don't matter. We are together in the face of this tragedy," the parliamentary speaker, now Poland's acting president, Bronislaw Komorowski said in a televised address to the nation.

Komorowski declared a week of national mourning. Poles will observe two minutes of silence on Sunday at noon (10am GMT).

Despite Poles' deep sense of loss, analysts said the crash should not pose any serious threat to the political and economic stability of Poland, a staunch Nato ally of the United States and a member of the European Union.

Russian solidarity
World leaders expressed shock and sorrow. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin of Russia, Poland's historic foe, told Poles: "This is a tragedy for us too. We feel your pain."

US President Barack Obama praised Kaczynski's role in the pro-democracy Solidarity movement that overthrew communism in 1989. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said: "Germany will miss Lech Kaczynski".

Komorowski said he would set the date of a presidential election which had been due in October after holding talks with Poland's political parties. Under the Constitution the election must now be held by late June.

The moustachioed, bespectacled Komorowski (58) is the presidential candidate of Prime Minister Donald Tusk's ruling pro-business, pro-euro Civic Platform (PO). Opinion polls suggest he would have defeated Kaczynski in the election.

Tusk flew to the crash site late on Saturday, where he and Putin laid flowers together.

Kaczynski's twin brother Jaroslaw, leader of Poland's main opposition Law and Justice Party (PiS), also flew to the site to help identify the bodies.

The pilot of Kaczynski's plane ignored several orders not to land from air traffic control, the deputy chief of the Russian Air Force's general staff, Alexander Alyoshin, was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency.

Kaczynski, a combative nationalist often at odds with Tusk's centrist government and the EU, was a staunch critic of Putin's Russia. Putin had invited Tusk, not Kaczynski, to ceremonies last Wednesday marking the Katyn massacre anniversary.

Poles noted the irony of a crash that claimed the lives of so many members of Poland's elite near the spot where Josef Stalin's NKVD secret police shot dead about 22 000 Polish officers and intellectuals in 1940, wiping out much of the country's wartime leadership.

Putin and Tusk had pledged at their Katyn commemoration last week to work to overcome such painful historic memories.

In a further gesture of Russian solidarity, President Dmitry Medvedev expressed his condolences to the Polish nation on Saturday evening in an unprecedented television address. Russia has declared April 12 a day of mourning for the crash.

Russian television showed the smouldering fuselage and fragments of the plane scattered in a forest. A Reuters reporter saw a broken wing some distance from the rest of the aircraft.

The plane was one of two Tu-154s in the government fleet, both about 20 years old. Government officials had complained about the age of Poland's official fleet.

Poland and Russia both said they planned investigations into the causes of the crash.

Central bank continuity
The conservative, nationalist-minded Kaczynski twins had spearheaded opposition to Tusk's pro-market economic policies and push for swift adoption of the euro. Analysts said they expected an upsurge of sympathy for PiS now but said it was too early to predict whether this would translate into votes.

Kaczynski was a one-time ally of Solidarity hero Lech Walesa and a co-founder of the right-wing PiS with his brother. He resigned from the party when he became president in 2005 but continued to support it.

While the president's role is largely symbolic, he can veto government laws. Kaczynski had infuriated Tusk's government several times by blocking health, media and pensions reforms.


Analysts said Polish markets would not be severely jolted.

"Although tragic, we do not believe that this event threatens political and financial stability in Poland in any fundamental way," Goldman Sachs said in a research note. - Reuters
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 07:22:55 am
Why has Webster Tarpley been dead silent on this? Could he like everyone in this forum have no idea what is going on? It is just a thought.

When was his last show? You mean he had a show and did not talk about this? What are you saying?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 07:23:43 am
GLP has a thread up about the obvious Goldman Sachs infiltration of Poland weeks before the coup d'etat...

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1035698/pg1
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 07:30:04 am

"Although tragic, we do not believe that this event threatens political and financial stability in Poland in any fundamental way," Goldman Sachs said in a research note. - Reuters

How fricking heartless is Goldman Sachs?

Here is the future of Goldman Sachs...

-------------------------------

"Although your child was raped, tortured, and decapitated, we do not believe that the event threatens our ongoing manufacturing and distribution of soylent green. You can pick up your receipt after passing through the naked body scanner," a Goldman cyborg uttered into an intercom system behind 10 inches of bomb proof glass.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 07:42:58 am
Is Goldman really capable of such things?



Goldman Sachs crying with joy at the Greece economic genocide
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=165874.0

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/11/01/77791/how-goldman-secretly-bet-on-the.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-lux/fraud-at-goldman-sachs_b_342710.html

http://www.consumerjusticegroup.com/stockfraud/sachs.html

http://dailyreckoning.com/greek-bondholders-fooled-or-goldman-sachs-committing-fraud/

I'm doing 'God's work'. Meet Mr Goldman Sachs
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6907681.ece

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Satyagraha on April 11, 2010, 08:10:26 am
When was his last show? You mean he had a show and did not talk about this? What are you saying?

Webster Tarpley tapes his show on THURSDAYS (note: before the crash), for broadcast on Saturday.
I expect him to talk about this in his next show scheduled for release next Saturday.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Outer Haven on April 11, 2010, 08:42:17 am
Quote
Blackbox found


Authorities have found one of the flight recorders of the plane, news agencies reported.

"One of the flight recorders has been found at the scene of the crash," the Interfax news agency quoted a regional government source as saying.

The RIA-Novosti news agency reported that a dirt-covered orange device shown in television footage at the crash scene was a flight recorder from the Tu-154 jet.

Such recorders are often called "black boxes" and are used to reconstruct the chain of events that led to a crash.
OK, but WHAT DID THE BLACK BOX RECORD?! It sounds weird they avoid even to talk about that.

Sane said:
Quote
you do not need to spend 40 years exposing the "magic bullet theory", that is absurd. Just look at the main iissue...

this group was against joining the euro currency

the new leadership is for it.

2+2=4 no matter what
Well, Lech Kaczyński did sign the Lisbon Treaty... but I guess they don't tolerate any disobedience, do they? I think I understand now: they don't give a crap about this country. I'm really starting to fear for my country now; it feels like we're facing a giant beast, and the only way not to get eaten by it is to become part of it...
Sane said:
Quote
how do we know that they all were on the same plane?
They were.


Quote
looks like Donald Tusk is the illuminati's inside man!
I don't know about that, but I know for sure that there used to be Bilderberger in his party (Civic Platform)...

Quote
Shoigu said that the bodies would be sent to Moscow for identification
Why Moscow?!

Also, I just heard today from Polish news that all the bodies are going to Poland already -- except for the President's, which is supposed to be waiting for a special transport of sorts. They also said that the President's body is going to arrive at Warsaw today. Did they lie or what?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: trailhound on April 11, 2010, 08:50:46 am
A glance at some of the most prominent victims of the crash of Poland's presidential plane, according to the official passenger list, released by the president's office.

Lech Kaczynski, 60. Poland's president, a nationalist conservative who had been in office since 2005. A founder of the Law and Justice party, now in opposition, and the twin brother of its leader, former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

Maria Kaczynska, 66, Poland's first lady; an economist and translator of English and French, had carried out charity work in her role as first lady. Her uncle was killed at Katyn.

Gen. Franciszek Gagor, 58. Army chief of staff since Feb. 2006. From 2004 to 2006, was Poland's representative at NATO in Brussels.

Gen. Andrzej Blasik, 47, head of the Air Force since 2007. Received professional military education in Montgomery, Alabama, in 2005.

Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta, 51, Navy chief commander since November 2009. From 2002-2005 served at the Supreme Allied Command Atlantic, SACLANT in Norfolk, Virginia.

Gen. Tadeusz Buk, 49, land forces commander since Sept. 2009. Served in 2007 as commander of Polish troops in Iraq.

Slawomir Skrzypek, 46, president of the National Bank of Poland since 2007. A longtime colleague of Lech Kaczynski, served under him at Warsaw City Hall from 2002-5.

Aleksander Szczyglo, 46, head of the National Security Office, a former defense minister under Kaczynski's brother.

Jerzy Szmajdzinski, 58, a deputy parliament speaker, left-wing lawmaker and the opposition Democratic Left Alliance's candidate for presidential elections this year. Served as defense minister at the time of the Iraq war.

Ryszard Kaczorowski, 90, from 1989-90 Poland's last president-in-exile in London. In December 1990, passed on the insignia of the presidency to the first democratically elected president, Lech Walesa, in a high-profile ceremony.

Janusz Kurtyka, 49. A historian; since 2005 head of state-run National Remembrance Institute, which investigates communist-era crimes.

Anna Walentynowicz, 80, Solidarity activist. Her firing in August 1980 from the Lenin Shipyards in Gdansk sparked a workers' strike that spurred the eventual creation of the freedom movement, of which she became a prominent member.

Piotr Nurowski, 64, head of Poland's Olympic Committee.

Krystyna Bochenek, 56, deputy parliament speaker, member of the prime minister's Civic Platform party.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/04/10/2010-04-10_list_prominent_victims_who_died_in_russian_plane_crash_that_killed_president_lec.html#ixzz0kkM8lFjB

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/04/10/2010-04-10_list_prominent_victims_who_died_in_russian_plane_crash_that_killed_president_lec.html


 Sane wrote
Quote
how do we know that they all were on the same plane?

 One thing for sure it is totally bizarre to have that entire cast on one plane, perhaps they are just really foolish, but I reserve strong doubt.  :-\
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: trailhound on April 11, 2010, 09:12:01 am
Afterall, they were smart enough not to use IMF credit line or shady flu vacs..seems they would be smart enough not to put all those people on one plane.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 09:13:00 am
Afterall, they were smart enough not to use IMF credit line or shady flu vacs..seems they would be smart enough not to put all those people on one plane.

Damn straight!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Outer Haven on April 11, 2010, 09:16:10 am
Damn straight!
Well... they did be all on one plane. That's what I heard from Polish media. There must have been people seeing them taking off etc.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 09:25:12 am
Well... they did be all on one plane. That's what I heard from Polish media. There must have been people seeing them taking off etc.

Kaczynski's Katyn Trip to Russia Problematic till Last Moment
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115094
World | April 10, 2010, Saturday


Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk (C) and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin (L) attend ceremonies at the Polish Military Cemetery in Katyn, Russia, commemorating the 70th anniversary of the 1940 Katyn Massacre, 07 April 2010. Photo by EPA/BGNES

Polish President Lech Kaczynski’s trip to the site of the Katyn Massacre in Russia on which his plane crashed was problematic until the last minute almost causing a diplomatic scandal.

On February 3, 2010, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin invited his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk to remember jointly the 70th year since the Katyn Massacre in which Soviet agents slaughtered some 20 000 Polish military officers in 1940. Tusk is a political opponent of Kaczynski; in fact, the two faced one another in the 2005 Presidential elections won by the latter.

Putin and Tusk attended a joint remembrance ceremony of the Katyn Massacre on April 7, 2010, as was previously agreed.

President Kaczynski had decided to attend the Katyn Massacre site near Smolensk three days later, on April 10, 2010, together with a group of other senior officials, historians, and war veterans.

Until the last moment, however, the details of his trip were hanging in the air, as the Russian Foreign Ministry claimed it had not been notified properly about Kaczynski’s intention to visit the Katyn Massacre site.

“Poland’s Foreign Ministry confirmed to us that President Kaczynski plans to visit Katyn on 10 April in conjunction with the 70th anniversary of the tragedy. However, no formal, written information as to how the Polish side imagines this project has been received. As a result, we cannot start procedures for the preparation of the visit by the Polish president. We hope that official information will reach us soon,” stated on March 15, 2010, Russian Ambassador to Poland, Vladimir Grinin, as cited by Polish English-language site thenews.pl.



Their form of transportation must have been a high level secret. What security firm did they hire for the counter-terror transportation logistics? CACI? Kroll?

http://www.caci.com/solutions.shtml

http://www.caci.com/fcc/c4isr.shtml

http://www.kroll.com/services/security/protection/

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Outer Haven on April 11, 2010, 09:29:41 am
That was almost a month ago. I guess they just didn't know yet.

I can't beLIEve they weren't all on aboard one plane; it's like common knowledge in Poland at this moment... Yes, I know common knowledge can be very different from the truth, but...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: trailhound on April 11, 2010, 09:34:14 am
That was almost a month ago. I guess they just didn't know yet.

I can't beLIEve they weren't all on aboard one plane; it's like common knowledge in Poland at this moment... Yes, I know common knowledge can be very different from the truth, but...

 Im not saying they werent all on one plane, I just think it is bizarre that they were.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 09:35:59 am
Im not saying they werent all on one plane, I just think it is bizarre that they were.

they must have had communications about it, who were those communications with? Who was handling the conversation?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Outer Haven on April 11, 2010, 09:37:02 am
Confirmed: the coffin with President's body is already in Poland. Right now they're debating wether to put it to public view or not.

Wait a second... if they're debating that, it must mean the body is relatively intact (I mean, they wouldn't be showing a gory piece of flesh...), which means... there was no bomb inside -- or does it?

In any event, I doubt it that a run-of-the-mill accident would kill all 97 people onboard...

Im not saying they werent all on one plane, I just think it is bizarre that they were.
OK, I was replying to Sane.
Quote
they must have had communications about it, who were those communications with? Who was handling the conversation?
No idea.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: trailhound on April 11, 2010, 09:50:43 am
they must have had communications about it, who were those communications with? Who was handling the conversation?

 Yes my investigation would start there, who knew about the flight, serviced the plane etc..Seems special precautions would be adhered to on such a flight. 

 
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 09:52:04 am
Confirmed: the coffin with President's body is already in Poland. Right now they're debating wether to put it to public view or not.

Wait a second... if they're debating that, it must mean the body is relatively intact (I mean, they wouldn't be showing a gory piece of flesh...), which means... there was no bomb inside -- or does it?

In any event, I doubt it that a run-of-the-mill accident would kill all 97 people onboard...
OK, I was replying to Sane.No idea.

Few reasons why it would be difficult to get them all on on that plane,

-> First... they already have been through a tragedy involving multiple leaders being exterminated via a plane "crash" just 2 years ago...



FLASHBACK: Polish Military Plane Crash Kills 20
http://airlineworld.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/polish-military-plane-crash-kills-20/
Published January 24, 2008 CASA-295M

A military plane (CASA-295M) crash in northwestern Poland has killed 20 people, Poland’s prime minister said early Thursday. Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the plane crash, which occurred Wednesday evening as the plane was about to land, killed 20 people, including one brigadier general and four crew members. “Soldiers, husbands and fathers have died, and that is the most tragic result of this catastrophe,” Tusk said. The air force plane carrying 16 passengers and four crew members was approaching an air force airstrip at Miroslawiec shortly after 7 p.m. (1800 GMT) when it crashed in a forested area. The passengers were military officers who had been attending a flight safety conference in Warsaw. Officials said it was the first accident in Poland involving a CASA transporter, which is generally considered an extremely reliable aircraft. The airplane took off from Warsaw and was scheduled to make stops in three cities before returning to its home base in Krakow. It crashed before reaching its second destination



-> Second... The exact plane has already been "tested for sabotage" by NATO against Iran less than a year ago...



FLASHBACK: All feared dead as TU-154 crashes in Iran with 168 aboard
Witnesses say the Russian-built plane was on fire when it hit the ground, 16 minutes after departing Tehran, bound for Armenia.
July 16, 2009|Borzou Daragahi

BEIRUT — A flaming commercial airliner crashed in northwestern Iran on Wednesday, killing all 168 people on board in the deadliest civil aviation disaster in the Islamic Republic in two decades. Caspian Airlines Flight 7908, headed from Tehran to Yerevan, the Armenian capital, crashed before noon in the Takestan region of Iran's Qazvin province, state media reported. Video footage of the crash site broadcast on state television showed a huge crater created by the jet, a Russian-built TU-154 that appeared to have splintered on impact. "Evidence shows that the plane has broken into pieces," Gen. Massoud Jafari-Nasab told the official Islamic Republic News Agency. The crash underscored what civil aviation experts consider the dilapidated state of Iran's aging fleet of aircraft and the shortcomings of an air transport industry under severe international sanctions that prevent it from purchasing Western-made Boeing or Airbus aircraft. The U.S. has offered to lift sanctions that forbid the sale of planes with any more than 10% American components as part of a deal involving a curtailing of Iran's nuclear research program. Iranian officials have repeatedly dismissed such offers, while charging that the American posture puts the lives of ordinary travelers at risk. Flight 7908 crashed 16 minutes after departure, Jafari-Nasab told the semiofficial Fars news agency. Reza Jafarzadeh, a spokesman for the state aviation company, told Iranian television that 153 passengers and 15 crew members were aboard and that the flight recorders, the so-called black boxes containing voice recordings and vital data about the plane before it crashed, had been recovered. "We need to investigate all the factors contributing to the incident before giving further details on how the incident took place and making an expert comment," Jafarzadeh said.

Witnesses told Iranian news agencies that the plane was already on fire when it hit the ground near the village of Jannatabad.

"Its wheels were out and there was fire coming from the lower parts," Abul-Fazel Idaji told Fars. "Moments later the plane hit the ground and broke into pieces." In Yerevan, the deputy head of the Armenian civil aviation organization told reporters that the pilot had attempted an emergency landing after an engine caught fire. But an unnamed airline representative told Armenian television that officials were still trying to assess the cause of the crash. Among those killed were 10 members of the Iranian national youth judo squad traveling to Yerevan for a summer training camp. At least six of the passengers were citizens of Armenia, and some were citizens of neighboring Georgia, Armenian news agencies reported. Iran's Armenian ethnic minority has strengthened ties with neighboring Armenia in recent years. Tehran and Yerevan have strong commercial and political relations. Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan cut short a trip to the provinces and returned to the capital as the crash was announced on public television, later declaring today a day of mourning. Caspian, a 16-year-old commercial airline, is based in Tehran and operates within Iran and to Syria, Turkey, Ukraine, the United Arab Emirates and Armenia using Russian-made Tupolev jets. Experts described the TU-154 plane as the Russian equivalent of the Boeing 727. The model first entered service with Russia's Aeroflot airlines in 1972. Iran Air Tour TU-154s crashed Sept. 1, 2006, in northeastern Iran, killing 29 people, and Feb. 12, 2002, in western Iran, killing all 118 aboard. Another TU-154 collided with an Iranian air force plane Feb. 8, 1993, killing 131 passengers and crew. On July 3, 1988, the U.S. Navy cruiser Vincennes shot down an Iran Air Airbus over the Persian Gulf, killing 290 in Iran's worst civilian air disaster.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Outer Haven on April 11, 2010, 10:17:35 am
Huh, I didn't even know about that plane crash from 2008. The recent one has tremendous media coverage (the only thing that could probably top it would be the previous Pope's death, but even that wasn't that big). Personally, I'm not really affected by what happened, but even when you're walking down a street, you can feel this atmosphere of sadness...

OH, AND BY THE WAY, one of the candidates for the new president, Andrzej Olechowski, is a BILDERBERGER!  :-X :-X :-X :-X

 :'(
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: lee51 on April 11, 2010, 11:03:48 am
I don't understand how they could find the bodies so quickly--surely some were burned beyond recognition? When I first heard about this last night I went here:

http://www.breitbart.com/image.php?id=app-ee1dbc64-3c7a-41b9-8a13-7f72d4ba2767&show_article=1&article_id=D9F0DCC80

to see what I could find. They had an article with a video of fireman walking with fires still burning and wreckage everywhere, all still smoking. What surprised me was that I didn't see one body. I mean, the main part of the wreckage was still in flames--no one was going near it.  At the link above is a pic of the video I saw. Below is another video--you can see the smoke is everywhere. So if this plane burned, where are the burned bodies? How would they know who to identify? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nucwf6DvpG4
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: trailhound on April 11, 2010, 11:06:28 am


OH, AND BY THE WAY, one of the candidates for the new president, Andrzej Olechowski, is a BILDERBERGER!  :-X :-X :-X :-X

 :'(


 Makes sense to me :P
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 12:11:05 pm


OH, AND BY THE WAY, one of the candidates for the new president, Andrzej Olechowski, is a BILDERBERGER! 

Andrzej Olechowski
http://www.muckety.com/Andrzej-Olechowski/2681.muckety

Central Europe Trust Polska - senior adviser
Central European Forum - president
Citibank Handlowy - supervisory board member
Citizens for the Republic - chairman
Civic Platform - leader
Euronet USA - director
Europejski Fundusz Hipoteczny - supervisory board member
Studiam Generale Europa - director
Textron (USA) - international advisory board member
Trilateral Commission - European deputy chairman

Andrzej Olechowski past relationships:
Bank Handlowy - chairman
National Bank of Poland - deputy governor
Poland - minister of foreign affairs
Lech Walesa - economic adviser
World Bank - economist
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 12:12:25 pm
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1035171/pg1

Bilderberg member Andrzej Olechowski (Poland) in polish TV some minutes ago   Quote

His conclusions:

1) Democracy in Poland is in good condition so Poland won't be hurt after tragedy
2) It's important time for Poland - time for connecting and something new (I wonder what is he talking about)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 12:13:11 pm
OLECHOWSKI ANDRZEJ
http://www.namebase.org/xoea/Andrzej-Olechowski.html
   Poland 1995-2005
Bilderberg Group. Meeting Participants. 1999 (6)
Lobster Magazine (Britain) 1998-#35 (31)
Spotlight Newspaper 1995-07-10 (10)
Spotlight Newspaper 1998-06-01 (11)
Trilateral Commission. List of Members. 2002-01 (5)
Trilateral Commission. List of Members. 2005-01 (1, 5)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: jofortruth on April 11, 2010, 12:23:52 pm
Poland Pulls Trigger to Weaken Zloty
http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/04/09/polish-central-bank-pulls-trigger-to-weaken-zloty/
http://www.wearechange.org/?p=922

Quote
Poland has been dragging its feet in adopting the euro and joining the European Union, having pushed back its target date for doing so until 2015. Here in the U.S., we might say that Poland is not a “team player.” In the New World Order, bad things tend to happen to leaders who aren’t team players.

The next day he is dead!


Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 12:32:09 pm
Poland Pulls Trigger to Weaken Zloty
http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/04/09/polish-central-bank-pulls-trigger-to-weaken-zloty/
http://www.wearechange.org/?p=922


The next day he is dead!

It was an attack on the Euro which already is failing because of Greece and others.

The Bilderberg Nazis have to keep up the facade that the Euro is Jesus Christ reincarnated, but no one is buying it.

So Bilderberg decided to conduct some faux-"divine intervention" which amounts to a complete coup d'etat
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Scootle on April 11, 2010, 01:47:40 pm
Queen offers sympathy to Poland after president's death

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47621000/jpg/_47621306_009090753-1.jpg)

The Queen has expressed her "deepest sympathy" to the Polish government and people after the death of President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash.

Gordon Brown said the whole world would be "saddened" and Tory leader David Cameron called it a "black day".

More: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8613006.stm

---

Yeh ... Okay ...  ::)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: RickT on April 11, 2010, 02:08:27 pm
Why It All Feels Like a Movie http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/04/11/why-it-all-feels-like-a-movie/ (http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/04/11/why-it-all-feels-like-a-movie/)

HMMM?

The Lone Gunmen Pilot - 9/11 Predictive Programming   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3WW6eoLcLI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3WW6eoLcLI&feature=related)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 02:46:19 pm
Polish Leader Kaczynski Often a Source of Tension Within E.U.
http://www.infowars.com/polish-leader-kaczynski-often-a-source-of-tension-within-e-u/
JUDY DEMPSEY and DIANE CARDWELL
The New York Times
April 11, 2010

Lech Kaczynski, who died Saturday in a plane crash in western Russia, rose from childhood fame as an actor to become president of Poland. He was 60.

Half of an unusual tandem of power, Mr. Kaczynski was elected president in 2005 from the nationalist-conservative Law and Justice Party, led by his identical twin, Jaroslaw, whom he later appointed prime minister.

Swept into office as voters repudiated the group of former Communist officials who had dominated the country’s politics for much of the preceding decade, Mr. Kaczynski and his brother struggled at the top. They frequently put Poland on a collision course with its European Union partners and Russia, while polarizing voters at home with a shift to the right.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: squarepusher on April 11, 2010, 03:10:35 pm
LOL at the one suggesting this is done by Russia.

If anything, it reeks of the CIA - they had Julia Timoshenko and Yushenko in their back pockets - not so with the most recent democratically elected President. That's why they needed him to be gone.

This can be accomplished very simply - every command and control center has 'area denial' capabilities - you do the math.

This, along with the 'shoot yourself through the head two times', is standard ops procedure out of the CIA 'assassination' handbook.

C'mon people - with all the various people 'assassinated' - surely you would have figured out by now how this game is played? They even 'assassinate' people who formerly played ball but are now not politically expedient - such as Benazir Bhutto, who was by no means a wonderful lady - in fact, she was a very despicable oligarch, but even so, she formed somewhat of a 'threat' to the current ruling puppet back then, Musharraf, and that's why they killed her.

BTW - not to steer this thread off-topic but I had to correct myself - I got Poland and Ukraine mixed up. LOL. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 11, 2010, 04:31:20 pm
Queen offers sympathy to Poland after president's death

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47621000/jpg/_47621306_009090753-1.jpg)

The Queen has expressed her "deepest sympathy" to the Polish government and people after the death of President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash.

Gordon Brown said the whole world would be "saddened" and Tory leader David Cameron called it a "black day".

More: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8613006.stm

---

Yeh ... Okay ...  ::)

Yeah, we're sorry that our Illuminati offed your political leaders, Poland.

Oh well, we'll make it all better by replacing them for you.

Starting with your central bank governor.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 05:10:01 pm
Yeah, we're sorry that our Illuminati offed your political leaders, Poland.

Oh well, we'll make it all better by replacing them for you.

Starting with your central bank governor.

yup chaps, sorry 'bout that.

let us make it up to you by devaluing your currency to the point of no return so that you will be forced to accept the debt slavery Euro.

cheerio chaps, get your kids ready in standard issue pajamas for the CPS trucks that will be coming around shortly.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 09:54:55 pm
so has everyone heard that the plane was being diverted by air traffic control?

i heard it too, they said to land in moscow or someplace else, right?

yup heard that too, and who was giving the orders, was it russia?

NOPE!



RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES OPEN INVESTIGATION INTO POLISH PLANE CRASH
http://news.brunei.fm/2010/04/11/russian-authorities-open-investigation-into-polish-plane-crash/
NAM NEWS NETWORK Apr 11th, 2010


MOSCOW, April 11 (NNN-KUNA) — Russian authorities have launched an investigation into the plane crash incident near the western Russian Smolensk Airport that killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski earlier Saturday.

Sources in the Russian General Prosecution said that a criminal law suit was filed, on grounds that civil aviation regulations were violated, leading to the death of all those on board the Polish Tupolev Tu-154 plane.

Interfax news agency quoted Russia’s General Prosecutor Yuri Chaika as saying that he would be overseeing the investigation at the orders of Russian President Dimitry Medvedev.

Meanwhile, sources in the investigative committee said that the accident may have been due to human error or a technical failure, but did not rule out the possibility of bad weather conditions and heavy fog being behind it.

Interfax reported that Belarus aviation authorities warned the crew of the Polish plane of bad weather over Smolensk, but the pilot decided to continue the journey.

On the ground, the news agency said that Russian forces cordoned off the crash site and prevented both Russian and Polish reporters from coming close to the area. — NNN-KUNA



WHAT WERE THE COMMUNICATIONS?

DID RUSSIA EVEN KNOW THE PLANE WAS COMING?

WAS BELARUS THE ONLY ONES WHO KNEW?

WHO THOUGHT UP THIS PLAN OF TRANSPORTATION?

DOESN'T ANYONE FIND IT STRANGE THAT BELARUS WHO WERE INDISCRIMINANTLY ARRESTING POLES AND REFUSED TO GO TO THE EVENT WHICH THEY WERE A PART OF WERE THE ONLY ONES GUIDING THE PLANE FROM THE GROUND AND NOW SAY UNILATERALLY (BECUASE EVERYONE ELSE IS DEAD) THAT IT WAS PILOT ERROR FOR NOT OBEYING THEM?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 11, 2010, 10:08:08 pm
The Russians on the ground wanted them to go to Minsk.

Kaczynkski wanted to go to the Katyn event near Smolensk.  Maybe, he insisted despite warnings from the ground.

I wonder just how bad visibility really was.  Supposedly only 400 meters (feet?) and 1,000 meters (feet?) are usually required for safe landings.  So, what I wonder is if games weren't being played to get them to divert to Minsk, thus preventing the Polish president and his entourage from getting to their desired event/photo-op, and this is what caused this disaster, at least in part.

Does anybody know what the weather was really like in Smolensk?  Was it really that foggy/hazy, or not?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 11, 2010, 10:10:56 pm
Sane my polish buddy here in chicago sent me this link. He is getting seemingly angrier about it, i'll get more information from him tomorrow, hes looking into information on black box and such.
the polish channel in chicago is covering it 24/7 atm. my area does not carry it tho...checking tho.

http://dalje.com/en-economy/poland-no-longer-needs-imf-credit-line/299894

MARCH 29 2010 17:56h
Poland no longer needs IMF credit line
The central bank said it could instead provide the IMF with a loan to “help other countries overcome the effects of the global crisis.“

WARSAW, March 29, 2010 (AFP) - Poland's economy is stable and no longer needs its 21.8-billion dollar (16.2-billion euro) credit line from the International Monetary Fund, the Polish central bank said on Monday.

"The situation with the Polish economy and the financial system is sufficiently good ... that it is not necessary to ask the IMF for a further extension of the flexible credit line," the bank said in a statement.The central bank said it could instead provide the IMF with a loan to "help other countries overcome the effects of the global crisis."

The finance ministry, however, insisted it still wanted to have a reserve at hand if the economy ran into fresh headwinds.

"We are expecting a good deal of shocks in the coming months ... There is still a necessity to ensure that Poland has a supplementary reserve," Deputy Finance Minister Dominik Radziwill said in a statement.

The credit line for Poland was approved in May 2009 and extended for six months in November 2009. It was intended to reassure investors and allow Poland to access credit easily if it needed it, which ultimately it did not.

The announcement came during a visit to Warsaw by the head of the IMF, Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

Poland was the only member of the 27-nation European Union to have experienced growth in 2009 and the IMF this month forecast that its economy will expand by 2.75 percent this year and by 3.25 percent in 2011.

Poland is a former communist-ruled country that joined the EU in 2004.

The IMF introduced the new system of flexible credit lines in 2009 as a safeguard against external shocks during the global economic crisis. Poland and Mexico both secured credit lines under this scheme whilst other countries needed loan arrangements.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 10:24:21 pm
but wait, china news says that it was the russian dispachers...


Polish president, 96 others killed in Russia plane crash
http://www.china.org.cn/world/2010-04/11/content_19789321.htm
Xinhua, April 11, 2010


Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of Poland's key civilian and military leaders died Saturday when their chartered plane crashed, killing 97, as it came in for a landing in western Russia.

The 26-year-old Tupolev Tu-154 was enroute from Warsaw to Smolensk, Russia, when it went down in thick fog with the president, his wife, the army chief of staff, Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer and the central bank governor aboard, said Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman Piotr Pszkowski.

Beata Slawecka, a Polish woman in the United States, presents flowers to mourn for the late Polish President Lech Kaczynski and other plane crash victims outside the Polish Embassy in Washington, capital of the United States, April 10, 2010. Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of Poland's key civilian and military leaders died Saturday when their chartered plane crashed, killing 97, as it came in for a landing in western Russia. [Zhang Jun/Xinhua]

Initial reports put the number of people on board the plane at 132, but Russia's Emergency Ministry later corrected the total to 96, then 97 in its latest announcement.

The victims included a delegation of 88 Poles headed to Russia to attend events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre in Katyn forest of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.

The body of President Kaczynski may have been found in the wreckage of the plane, a highly-placed police source told RIA Novosti.

Speaking from the scene, the source said however that additional tests, including DNA, would be needed to identify many of the bodies.

The deaths were not expected to directly affect the functioning of Polish government: Poland's president is commander in chief of its armed forces but the position's domestic duties are chiefly symbolic. Most top government ministers were not aboard the plane.

Sergei Antufiev, governor of the Smolensk region,told Russia-24 television news network that the plane "clipped the tops of the trees, crashed down and broke into pieces."

[size=14]Russian television showed the plane's wreckage scattered in a forest with parts still on fire. The plane's two black boxes have been found and are being analyzed by Russian investigators.

Andrei Yevseyenkov, a spokesman for the Smolensk government, said Russian dispatchers asked the crew to divert from Smolensk and land instead in Minsk, the capital of neighboring Belarus, or in Moscow because of the fog.

"The pilot was advised to land in Minsk, but decided to land in Smolensk," the spokesman said.


While traffic controllers generally have the final word in whether it is safe for a plane to land, they can and do leave it to the pilots' discretion.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 10:36:36 pm
According to India media...

THE DELEGATION WAS "CRASHING" AN EVENT THAT PUTIN WAS LEADING?

W T F ?

IS THIS FOR REAL? THEY DID NOT TELL RUSSIA THEY WERE COMING AND FLEW INTO BELARUS AND RUSSIAN AIRSPACE WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE?

OMFG! CAN ANYONE GET ANOTHER SOURCE ON THIS?

NRO/EURO INTEL COULD EASILY HAVE SET UP SOME FAKE BLIPS THAT THIS WAS AN ENEMY VESSEL. THIS IS NUTS

WHO DREAMED UP THIS SECRET MISSION OF THE ENTIRE ELITE OF POLAND CRASHING A PUTIN PARTY BY BUSTING INTO AIRSPACE OF BOTH BELARUS AND RUSSIA?

THIS IS A SHAKESPEARE LEVEL MANIPULATION ALL THE WAY. SHIT, THIS IS HAMLET AND MACBETH LEADING THE HAPPY KINGS TO THEIR DEATHS.

THIS IS HIGH, HIGH LEVEL STRING PULLING!



Pilot ignored warning not to land?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Times of India
Matthew Campbell & Mark Franchetti, Sunday Times, London, Apr 12, 2010, 12.30am IST
 
MOSCOW: Air traffic controllers watched their screens with growing unease on Saturday morning as the Soviet-era Tupolev descended into fog that hung over the military airfield at Smolensk in western Russia.

The controllers had already issued several warnings not to attempt a landing because of the danger posed by visibility close to zero. They wanted the plane to divert to Moscow or Minsk, the Belarus capital.

For reasons so far unknown, the plane carrying a Polish presidential delegation to commemorate the Soviet massacre of Polish officers in the Katyn forest seven decades ago came in to land regardless. "The crew continued the descent," said Alexander Alyoshin, of the Russian air force. "Unfortunately this ended in tragedy."

President Lech Kaczynski, 60, who had dominated conservative politics in Poland for 20 years since the downfall of communism, was killed along with his wife Maria, 66, an economist, and 95 others, including some of the country's military and civilian leaders.

Two black boxes were recovered from the wreckage and may hold the answer as to why the pilot defied the control tower. Kaczynski, a former anti-communist campaigner with a penchant for taunting the Kremlin, had every reason to believe he was not welcome in Russia. Polish observers said he may have interpreted an order to divert to Moscow as an attempt to sabotage his big day in Katyn, where he was due to give a speech.

Russian media reports said he had once become angry with a pilot who refused to land in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, on the grounds that it was unsafe. Aviation experts in Moscow speculated that the same thing may have happened at Smolensk. They suggested he may have pressed the pilot to make at least two attempts to land.

The crash could not have happened at a more sensitive moment in Polish-Russian ties. Russian PM Vladimir Putin had attended a ceremony earlier in the week to commemorate the Katyn massacre with Donald Tusk, the Polish PM, in what was seen as a conciliatory gesture from Moscow.

The Kremlin had previously distanced itself from the events at Katyn, where 22,000 Poles, mostly military officers, were gunned down by Soviet secret police in the woods.

Kaczynski was not invited to Putin's event and there was no promise of a warm welcome at Smolensk on Saturday. He was determined to attend the event, though — not "to inflame ties with Russia", but to support 400 relatives of the victims who would be there. "I hope I get a visa," he had joked.



Well security around an event that Putin was going to attend would have been red alert. So elite of poland get seduced into crashing the party and then tensions are raised in Russia about a possibleattack on Putin...well no wonder Russia may not be forthcoming. WTF? This is nuts, who are provoking these events on both sides?

who is creating these powder kegs where just a spark will do the trick?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 10:41:25 pm
MSNBC seems to almost confirm his:



Putin attends commemoration
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36382419/ns/world_news-europe/
Putin was the first Russian leader to commemorate the Katyn massacres with a Polish leader and noted that both nations' "fates had been inexorably joined" by the atrocities that saw 22,000 Polish officers, prisoners and intellectuals massacred by Stalin's secret police in 1940 in and around Katyn, a village near Russia's border with Belarus.

"In our country there has been a clear political, legal and moral judgment made of the evil acts of this totalitarian regime, and this judgment cannot be revised," he said, but he did not apologize or call it a war crime.

Listening to the remarks was the Polish prime minister, Tusk, not Kaczynski who, as president, was not invited to the event.

"It was a step forward. He could have not shown up, he could have not invited Tusk," Bugajski said.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 11, 2010, 10:46:33 pm
I've been looking at the Polish news forums around the web.
They seem as gullible and naive as Americans were after 9/11 - they believe the official story and call "conspiracy theorists" people who warn them that the top heads of their governement have not died in an accident.

I would suggest to anyone with a bit of free time to go on Polish message boards and post a bit of the information here and around.
They need to understand the very structure of their country was attacked.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 10:50:25 pm
I've been looking at the Polish news forums around the web.
They seem as gullible and naive as Americans were after 9/11 - they believe the official story and call "conspiracy theorists" people who warn them that the top heads of their governement have not died in an accident.

I would suggest to anyone with a bit of free time to go on Polish message boards and post a bit of the information here and around.
They need to understand the very structure of their country was attacked.

We need to understand about this supposed "crashing" of a Putin event without Putin's knowledge and all of the communications leading up to it.

everyone who eworked on the plane needs to be interviewed.

all communications to and fro the plane need to be released.

the black boxes need to be made public,what is the point of a black box in the first place?

what do they mean "examining them"

what is there to examine, it is a recording and measurements, release them.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 10:56:22 pm
Polish President Lech Kaczynski's body returns to Warsaw
http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_14863763?source=rss
Associated Press
Posted: 04/11/2010 01:07:37 PM MDT


Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk kneels in front of the coffin with the late Polish President Lech Kaczynski, during a ceremony at the military airport in Warsaw, Poland, Sunday, April 11, 2010. Polish President Lech Kaczynski, his wife Maria and some of the country's highest military and civilian leader died on Saturday when the presidential plane crashed as it came for landing in fog in Smolensk, western Russia. ( ALIK KEPLICZ )

WARSAW, Poland — Tens of thousands of Poles softly sang the national anthem and tossed flowers at the hearse carrying the body of President Lech Kaczynski to the presidential palace on Sunday after it was returned from Russia, where he and dozens of political, military and religious leaders were killed in a plane crash.

The plane carrying Kaczynski's body arrived from the Smolensk airport, where he and 95 others had been heading Saturday to honor 22,000 Polish officers slain by the Soviet secret police in 1940 in the western Soviet Union.

The coffin bearing Kaczynski's remains were met first by his daughter Marta, whose mother Maria also perished in the crash. She knelt before it, her forehead resting on the coffin.

She was followed by Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the former prime minister, and the president's twin brother. He, too, knelt and pressed his head against the flag-draped coffin before rising slowly and crossing himself.

Standing sentinel were four Polish troopers bearing sabers.

There was no sign of the twins' ailing mother Jadwiga, who has been hospitalized. The president had canceled several foreign trips lately to be by her side.

The coffin was placed aboard a Mercedes-Benz hearse and slowly traveled several miles to the palace, watched by thousands of weeping Poles.

Earlier, the country held two minutes of silence in memorial for those killed in the crash.

Church bells pealed at noon and emergency sirens shrieked for nearly a minute before fading. Hundreds bowed their heads, eyes closed, in front of the presidential palace. Buses and trams halted in the streets.

No date for a funeral has been set and the presidential palace has not yet said if Kaczynski will lie in state.

The death of the president and much of the state and defense establishment in Russia, en route to commemorating one of the saddest events in the neighboring nations' long, complicated history, was laden with tragic irony.

"He taught Poles how to respect our traditions, how to fight for our dignity, and he made he made his sacrifice there at that tragic place," said mourner Boguslaw Staron, 70.

Among the dead were Poland's army chief of staff, the navy chief commander, and heads of the air and land forces. At the Field Cathedral of the Polish Army in Warsaw, hundreds gathered for a morning Mass and left flowers and written condolences. Government spokesman Pawel Gras said the country's armed forces and state offices were operating normally despite the devastating losses.

Michal Boni, an official in the prime minister's office, said they remained in constant contact with deputy head of the National Bank of Poland, Piotr Wiesiolek.

He said the bank's Monetary Policy Council will hold a meeting on Monday, as previously planned.

"We are prepared to take various decisions, but we do not see that anything dangerous could happen in the economy," Boni said. The economy has so far managed to avoid recession.

The acting president, Parliament Speaker Bronislaw Komorowski, said he would call for early elections within 14 days, in line with the constitution. The vote must be held within another 60 days.

Kaczynski had indicated he would seek a second term in presidential elections this fall but was expected to face an uphill struggle against Komorowski and his governing party, the moderate, pro-business Civic Platform. Kaczynski's nationalist conservative Law and Justice Party could benefit, however, from the support of a country mourning the loss of their president, particularly with elections now set to take place by late June.

In Moscow, Russia's transport ministry said that Russian and Polish investigators had begun to decipher flight data recorders of the aging Soviet-built Tu-154 airliner that crashed while trying to land in deep fog in Smolensk.

Russian officials had said 97 people were killed but revised the figure to 96. Poland's Foreign Ministry also confirmed the figure.

The Smolensk regional government said Russian dispatchers had asked the Polish crew to divert from the military airport there because of the fog and land instead in Moscow or Minsk, the capital of neighboring Belarus.

Former president, Solidarity founder and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Lech Walesa, said it was too soon to cast blame.

"Someone must have been taking decisions on that plane. I don't believe that the pilot took decisions single-handedly," he told reporters. "That's not possible. I have flown a lot and whenever there were doubts, they always came to the leaders and asked for a decision, and based on that, pilots took decisions. Sometimes the decision was against the leader's instructions."

Polish-Russian relations had been improving recently after being poisoned for decades over the slaying of some 22,000 officers and others in Katyn forest and in other areas. About 4,000 Polish army officers were killed in the forest by Josef Stalin's NKVD, the forerunner to the KGB, in 1940

Russia never has formally apologized for the murders but Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's decision to attend a memorial ceremony earlier this week in the forest was seen as a gesture of goodwill toward reconciliation. Kaczynski wasn't invited to that event because Putin, as prime minister, had invited his Polish counterpart, Donald Tusk.

Kaczynski, 60, was the first serving Polish leader to die since exiled World War II-era leader Gen. Wladyslaw Sikorski was killed in a mysterious plane crash off Gibraltar in 1943.

Kaczynski's twin brother flew to Smolensk on Saturday evening and identified the body of his brother and sister-in-law.

In Warsaw's historic center, large sections of the street were blocked to traffic to allow the flow of people expressing their grief. Mourners carried candles and roses and joined a long line to sign a book of condolences in the palace.

Also aboard the plane were the national bank president, the deputy foreign minister, the army chaplain, the head of the National Security Office, the deputy parliament speaker, the Olympic Committee head, the civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers.

Some on board were relatives of the officers slain in the Katyn massacre. Also among the victims was Anna Walentynowicz, whose firing in August 1980 from the Lenin Shipyards in Gdansk sparked a workers' strike that spurred the eventual creation of the Solidarity freedom movement.

Walesa was among those who signed a condolence book in Gdansk.

"The elite of our country has perished," he said the day before.

Children also placed simple drawings and messages of mourning: "I love our president," said one, alongside a picture of a human figure and a cross.

Polish television carried black-and-white montages of those killed in the crash and devoted nonstop coverage to the crash, including lingering looks at Kaczynski and his wife, Maria.

President Dmitry Medvedev declared Monday a day of mourning in Russia.

The Tu-154 was the workhorse of Eastern Bloc civil aviation in the 1970s and 1980s. Poland has long discussed replacing the planes that carry the country's leaders but said it lacked the funds.

According to the Aviation Safety Network, there have been 66 crashes involving Tu-154s in the past four decades, including six in the past five years. The Russian carrier Aeroflot recently withdrew its Tu-154 fleet from service, largely because the planes do not meet international noise restrictions and use too much fuel.

The Polish presidential plane was fully overhauled in December, the general director of the Aviakor aviation maintenance plant in Samara, Russia, told Rossiya-24. The plant repaired the plane's three engines, retrofitted electronic and navigation equipment and updated the interior, Alexei Gusev said. He said there could be no doubts that the plane was flightworthy.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 11, 2010, 11:05:59 pm
question. silly it may be. a little confused.

So they left poland, went to moscow then flew to katyn ?

or left poland flew to katyn?

all the while on the way to the ceremony which happened AFTER the crash which they weren't "invited" too to begin with.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 11:23:15 pm
question. silly it may be. a little confused.

So they left poland, went to moscow then flew to katyn ?

or left poland flew to katyn?

all the while on the way to the ceremony which happened AFTER the crash which they weren't "invited" too to begin with.


looks to me like many people got some guilt in this and that is what is causing disparate reporting.

this also happened on 9/11. everyone felt they screwed up but the narrative was consistent throughout.

people need to be pressed and get all of the statements to match or examine why they do not.

so far, there are many illogical things going on. you are pointing out a few. there is no time line,  there is no chain of movement, nothing just...

"plane crashed due to fog and human error"

sorry, but that is just not enough fricking information!

there needs to be some full report, how can they immediately rule out a terrorist act and not even have a timeline?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 11, 2010, 11:25:29 pm
question. silly it may be. a little confused.

So they left poland, went to moscow then flew to katyn ?

or left poland flew to katyn?

all the while on the way to the ceremony which happened AFTER the crash which they weren't "invited" too to begin with.


Give them a few days until they re-write their movie scenario. In the meanwhile, another country has fallen to the NWO and most of the people of Poland will do as if nothing happened, they've mostly all been brainwashed that the Euro is a good thing - look on the other forums.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 11:44:26 pm
some comic relief...a low level moron reporter gets the assignment to attack "conspiracy theorists" on the UK telegraph...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100033738/polish-president-killed-in-air-crash-the-conspiracy-theorists-will-go-crazy/

check out the comments

dumb, dumb, dumb move
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 11, 2010, 11:54:08 pm
looks like this russian news story was before the downing of the plane...


Poland: Putin's speech won't please everyone
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20100407/158473805.html
07/04/2010

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's speech was broadcast live by Polish television, radio and the Internet news sites. A translation into Polish appeared on the Internet soon after.

For the first time since Russian was dropped from the curriculum of Polish schools and universities in 1992, Russian speakers were worth their weight in gold in Poland. People listened intently to Putin's every word and scrutinized his every move: "Putin bowed his head to the Poles murdered at Katyn"; "Putin said that the crimes of totalitarianism cannot be justified."

Will some Poles be dissatisfied with Putin's speech? Absolutely. You can't please everyone when it comes to Katyn. It is important to understand that for the Poles, Katyn is not just a symbol of Stalin's crimes. In his speech today, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk accurately called the old Soviet version blaming the Germans for the murder of the Polish officers a "cornerstone" myth of the Polish People's Republic (PPR). Poles only dared whisper their doubts about the official version in the PPR, and the collapse of this myth in 1989-1990 became a symbol of Polish liberation from totalitarianism. If the official version was based on a lie, then the whole system was built on a lie and must be dismantled.

Regrettably, new myths are cropping up in today's Poland. The biggest myth has to do with "the threat from the East." The Kaczynski brothers - the president and former prime minister - have spoken freely about this danger, and until recently, Poland was under their sway.

One of the brothers, Lech, is still the president. In the last few weeks, he openly expressed his jealousy of Prime Minister Donald Tusk, who was invited by Putin to visit Katyn. Until this year, memorial ceremonies at the graves of the Polish officers at Katyn were a strictly Polish affair. Polish presidents and ministers visited the site but unofficially. These were almost family events with the officers' relatives in attendance.

This is the first ceremony attended by Russian leaders but not the Polish president. Kaczynski's stated intention to visit Katyn three days later with the relatives of the dead and a propaganda landing party is a political gesture motivated more by discontent and envy than respect for the memory of the victims.

Kaczynski got the hint, and he will have to bear responsibility for his speech at a square in Tbilisi next to the war criminal Mikheil Saakashvili several days after the attack on Tskhinval - a speech filled with irresponsible anti-Russian rhetoric. Kaczynski may only be judged by history for his actions, but one thing is certain: he will not be remembered as a political leader who led Polish-Russian relations out of this deadlock. Tusk and Putin have that chance. [WTF - who wrote this story? looks like in russia if you are a journalist, you either regurgitate official stuff or you are some provocateur]


The second myth, which will take a long time to dispel, is the "ethnic" interpretation" of Katyn, which depicts this tragedy as an anti-Polish act of the entire Russian nation (as if Bashto Kobulov, a member of the troika that condemned the officers to death, and the Politburo members Dzhugashvili, Kaganovich and Beria, who signed a relevant resolution, were Russians). In his speech today, Putin said, "Stalinist repression swept people away regardless of their ethnic origin, convictions or religious beliefs. Whole social classes became victims - Cossacks, clergymen, ordinary peasants, professors, officers, some of whom served in the Tsarist army and then came to serve the Soviet state but were still not spared."

This passage from Putin's speech will no doubt be met with criticism in Poland. Lech Kaczynski keeps repeating that the officers in Katyn were shot because they were POLISH officers. But the documents show that in the eyes of the Politburo members and Stalin himself the victims of Katyn were considered Soviet citizens. At the time of the massacre in the spring of 1940, Poland did not exist as a state. One chunk of pre-war Poland belonged to Nazi Germany, while the other belonged to the U.S.S.R. The more than 21,000 Polish officers who found themselves at Stalin's mercy shared the fate of millions of Soviet citizens.

It is hard to move past the "ethnic interpretation" of Katyn. It is a much easier to use it as a political trump card, like the Kaczynski brothers are doing. Many Russian politicians are also tempted to feed into this interpretation. But they must resist this temptation, for a political career based on this lie will collapse just like the PPR.



that looks like a seriously provocateuring article, but it is interesting to see that supposedly they did know he was coming later, no date though. and the georgia pres was gonna be there too?

georgia attacked russia last year right?

this has some wild complexities.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 11, 2010, 11:54:56 pm
Most bodies in Polish president's plane crash hard to identify

RIA Novosti (http://en.rian.ru/world/20100412/158530343.html)
Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:19 EDT

Only 14 bodies of the victims killed in Polish president's plane crash on Saturday could be identified by relatives without problems, the Polish health minister said...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 12, 2010, 12:06:40 am
Most bodies in Polish president's plane crash hard to identify


As i was imaging it in my head when discussing it with friends.

envision a plane landing along a run way and then the back hit is sheared or clipped off. Since the plane is coming at an angle the force that ripped the tail section off would cause the plane body to force upward in an upside down loop and depending on the speed going would tilt backwards only to lose its speed stall and fall down...upside down and explode.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 12, 2010, 12:24:27 am

this has some wild complexities.

Abso-friggin'-lutley.

It is a mess.  It's hard to tease out, yet, who was or wasn't responsible.  No reason to count anybody out just yet, but again it would be very strange if U.S/CIA was involved given Kaczynski's very pro-U.S. position prior to shuffling off his smortal coil.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 12, 2010, 12:28:48 am
some comic relief...a low level moron reporter gets the assignment to attack "conspiracy theorists" on the UK telegraph...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100033738/polish-president-killed-in-air-crash-the-conspiracy-theorists-will-go-crazy/

check out the comments

dumb, dumb, dumb move

Wow that's a lame attempt at a preemptive strike against people doing research (aka "conspiracy theorists").
Thanks anyway, glad to see so many awaken people in the comments.

Sane, have you listen to Gary Bell on this topic? He made a good breakdown of it on his radio show. (In audio section)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €E
Post by: Xill on April 12, 2010, 12:38:25 am
http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/11/11838.shtml

Quote
Georgian TV foretold murder of Polish President by Russian KGB terrorists
Publication time: 11 April 2010, 14:22


The killing of the Polish President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash organized by the KGB (FSB), was reported on March 13, 2010 by the Georgian TV channel Imedi.

 A half-an-hour-long film about an alleged Russian aggression against Georgia foretold the killing of Lech Kaczynski in an explosion of his presidential plane.

The statement by the head of the international affairs committee of the Russian parliament, Kosachev, who talked about a plane crash near Smolensk, seems rather strange in this context.

In an interview with the Russian news agency Interfax, he said he was "in a state of shock and horror" over the news. "The soul trembles to think that Katyn has taken new victims", Kosachev said.

In 1940, more than 15,000 of Polish officers were executed in Katyn under the order of the Kremlin and Stalin personally. Until recently, Russia has been trying to deny its responsibility for the massacre. Moscow has not apologized so far for this Russian crime.

Moreover, Moscow tried to do everything possible to prevent the Polish President Lech Kaczynski to visit Katyn. Diplomatic scandals broke more than once on this occasion.

Some historical facts are interesting in this regard.

    * On September 30, 1939, a Polish army general in London exile, Sikorski, became the prime minister of the Polish exile government (and remained on this post until the death in 1943).

      After the discovery by the Germans mass graves of Polish officers in , who were killed by the Russians in a camp for war prisoners, Sikorski quarreled with Moscow. In April 1943, relations with the Polish government in exile were formally broken by Stalin's government after Sikorski demanded investigation into the Katyn massacre.

      Sikorsky charged the Soviet Union with a war crime and demanded that Churchill breaks relations with the USSR. A few weeks later, General Wladyslaw Sikorski and his daughter Sophia died in a plane crash on July 4, 1943, near Gibraltar.

      In November 2008, his body was exhumed and tested by Polish experts to confirm that the Soviet secret police had been involved in his death.

We would like to mention thereupon that the Polish President Lech Kaczynski was one of the Polish leaders most hated by Moscow. Indeed, the Kremlin had reasons to hate Kaczynski. Here are some facts:

    * The city council of Warsaw under the leadership of then-mayor of the Polish capital Kaczynski renamed one of the largest squares in Warsaw after the first Chechen President Dzhokhar Dudayev

    * The Kaczynski's election campaign was based on slogans of national revival and historical responsibility of Russia for crimes against Poland.

    * On Nov. 15, 2006, Kaczynski offered to the EU to impose sanctions against Russia if Moscow refuses to lift ban on the import of Polish meat and agricultural products.

    * Poland vetoed talks on cooperation between the European Union and Russia, which were to begin at the EU-Russia summit on November 24.

    * During the war in South Ossetia in August 2008, Kaczynski announced his full support for Georgia.

    * After the Russian war against Georgia, Poland accepted the US proposal to deploy a missile defense system (interceptor missiles) on its territory.

   * At Kaczynski's initiative Poland was going to free Europe from Russian gas dependence with an increased production of its own shale gas. In this case, Poland could become the largest European supplier of this type of fuel.

It is to be mentioned that Lech Kaczynski said that one of the goals of the Russian aggression against Georgia was an attempt to prevent Europe to get rid of the gas dependence from Moscow. Kaczynski has also actively lobbied for Georgia's joining the NATO.


Many ordinary people in the world doubt that the crash was accidental. In a guestbook of Polish Radio English Service a Belarus resident writes:

"The signs appear more and more worrying that the Russians were involved. From the Nazi-Russian pact and Katyn to the recent Russian and Belarusian war games near the Polish border, Russia has always considered Poland its own territory, lost in a time of weakness much as China threatens all over democratic Taiwan.

The difference is that Russia shows no compunction about murdering its citizens abroad and backing its threats with violence (vide Georgia) and economic measures (closing oil pipelines). A Russian plane recently "repaired" in a Russian factory? If it is simply a coincidence, through its actions Russia immediately comes under suspicion.

My condolences to our Polish allies who have always supported us since breaking free from Russian control".

It is to be mentioned that according to the Russian media, "the Kaczynski's presidential plane was fully overhauled in December, the general director of the Aviakor aviation maintenance plant in Samara, Russia, told the Rossiya-24 TV. The plant repaired the plane's three engines, installed new electronic and navigation equipment and updated the interior", Alexei Gusev said.

In their turn, the Russian authorities actively promote the version of a "bad weather", which became the "cause of the accident". Moscow claims a dense fog covered the military airfield near Smolensk. The fog, for some reason, did not prevent eye-witnesses to see quite clearly the details of the aircraft flight.

"The plane tilted to the left before crashing, witness Slawomir Sliwinski told the state news channel Rossiya-24. He said there were two loud explosions when the aircraft hit the ground and burst into flames", AP reports.

Meanwhile, the Polish media does not exclude FSB's involvement in the crash. A possibility of a terror attack by the FSB is also being considered.

In particular, a Polish expert on the TV channel POLSAT called improbable the Russian explanation that the crash of the Polish plane was caused by bad weather, a pilot's error, etc.

Polish flags in Poland have been lowered to half-mast. Under the Poland's constitution, the leader of the lower house of Parliament, who is now the acting president, has 14 days to announce new elections to be held within 60 days.

According to the experts, there are some "strange aspects" in this tragedy. The Polish side asserts that 88 people flew from Poland, but the number of the dead amounted to 132 people, according to initial Russian reports.

All passengers died, as Russian media have reported an hour after the tragedy, although in similar accidents, 80 percent of passengers usually survive. The plane fell to earth only from the height of 15 meters. There were no fires, no fuel, but security was increased, etc. The plane could have landed on other airfield, but it didn't.

Polish media outlets seriously doubt the explanation from the Russian side that the plane was reportedly going to land in a fourth attempt. According to Russian media outlets, the press service of the Smolensk Region told that the airport air control allegedly offered the Polish pilot to land in Minsk, 200 km from Smolensk, but the pilot reportedly refused.

"Skilled pilots seldom decide to land the plane in a fourth attempt, usually, if the second attempt fails, pilots land in an alternate airport", said one of Polish pilots on Polish T`V, noting that the best pilots of the country fly the president's plane.

The Polish side noted that the tragedy of this magnitude and level occurred for the first time in the world. A large number of top officials of Poland died.

Ukrainian media outlets do not exclude that Kaczynski's plane was lured into a trap.

The reason remains unclear why the pilots of Tu-154 with top officials of the Republic of Poland on board decided to use for landing a poorly adapted military airfield "North" near the town of Pechersk in Smolensk Region, rather than to land at the airport of Smolensk, the Ukrainian RUpor agency reports.

The agency notes that the existence of a military airport on the territory of Russia is a state secret and without the intervention of the military department dispatcher civil service can not recommend landing to foreign government planes. Especially, since, as noted by the TV channel Russia 24, prior to this, the airport denied landing for a Russian military aircraft.

If an intervention of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces (and perhaps, actually the military intelligence GRU) is proved, it could be possible to speculate on the political component of the catastrophe.

Experts repeatedly mentioned a sharply increased role of the Russian military intelligence GRU after the Medvedev's rise to power.

Department of Monitoring
Kavkaz Center
Title: Re: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €E
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 01:42:45 am
http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/11/11838.shtml


kavkaz is some fricking CIA site filled with BS and monkey bar faux terrorists.

it is like Mossad's SITE.

if you do not have at least 2 other references, do not buy any of their BS. they also took credit for all the false flag bombings, total psyops/CIA run crap.
Title: Re: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €E
Post by: Xill on April 12, 2010, 01:50:21 am
kavkaz is some fricking CIA site filled with BS and monkey bar faux terrorists.

it is like Mossad's SITE.

if you do not have at least 2 other references, do not buy any of their BS. they also took credit for all the false flag bombings, total psyops/CIA run crap.

I didn't know that.
I just thought perhaps there was something in there.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Letsbereal on April 12, 2010, 07:01:40 am
Kaczynski Death to Aid Pro-Euro Tusk’s Grip on Poland (Update1)
12 April 2010
, by David McQuaid (Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aEHmTbD9_Grs

April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s pro-euro Civic Platform party is likely to cement its grip on power in a presidential election that must now be held by June after President Lech Kaczynski  died in a plane crash.

Polls taken before the April 10 accident showed Civic Platform’s candidate, Bronislaw Komorowski, was running ahead of Kaczynski and other contenders in an election originally scheduled for October. The tragedy, in Smolensk, western Russia, killed all 96 passengers on route to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet forces.

Following the crash, in which Left Democratic Alliance party candidate Jerzy Smajdzinski also died, Komorowski is left as the sole surviving contender of Poland’s three major parties. The only significant impediment to a Civic Platform victory may be the possibility of a wave of sympathy for the dead president, political commentators said, and that still probably won’t be enough to prevent Tusk extending his control over the political system.

“This changes the whole political dynamic,” said Marek Matraszek, Warsaw based head of CEC Government Relations, which advises companies dealing with the government. “Does it cement Civic Platform’s dominance? That’s a very strong possibility.”

With control of the government and the presidency, Tusk’s party would have more freedom to pass legislation needed to keep the budget in check and satisfy investors focused on fiscal health.


‘Hostile Figures’

Kaczynski, who over the past three years had tried to block government efforts to overhaul Poland’s debt-ridden healthcare and pension systems, was also the last EU leader besides Vaclav Klaus of the Czech Republic to sign the Lisbon Treaty, and opposed Tusk’s euro adoption goal.

Kaczynski placed a euro-skeptic ally in charge of the central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek, who was also killed in the crash.

“Investors viewed President Kaczynski and Skrzypek as hostile figures,” said Preston Keat, the London-based research director of Eurasia Group, a political risk consulting company. “What kept coming up in client meetings is that they were the two blocking forces to market reform.”


Zloty Interventions

Under Governor Skrzypek, Poland’s central bank last week intervened to cap zloty gains for the first time in 12 years. The currency is up 6 percent against the euro this year, making it eastern EU’s best performer in the period. The bank appointed Skrzypek’s deputy Piotr Wiesiolek as acting governor and will hold a meeting today to discuss how to proceed.

“My sense is that the view that the zloty is appreciating too far and too fast is widely held in the central bank, so there’s no reason to believe they won’t come back into the market again next week or the week after,” said Blaise Antin, managing director of TCW Group Inc. in Los Angeles, which has $115 billion under management, including $4 billion in emerging market assets.

The zloty lost as much as 0.7 percent against the euro today before recovering to trade at 3.873 at 10:04 a.m. in Warsaw. The currency will probably stabilize after investors digest the initial shock of the plane crash, Citigroup Inc. and RBC Capital said.


‘Out of the Way’

The central bank had also signaled it was deciding when to start raising interest rates from a record low 3.5 percent.

“Uncertainty should be out of the way by June and we stick for now with our call of three rate hikes from July, but with risks to the downside given prospects of further intervention,” said Peter Attard Montalto, an emerging markets economist at Nomura International Plc, in a note to clients. He expects the country to join the pre-euro Exchange Rate Mechanism, a prelude to adopting the euro, in 2011.

Poland abandoned its 2012 euro adoption target last July after it became clear it would miss the bloc’s fiscal targets. Tusk now says 2015 is a “realistic” date.

Though polls show Komorowski was likely to win the October elections, an earlier presidential victory may allow the Civic Platform more time to push through policy changes.


Longer Rule

“There is now likely to be a longer period of Civic Platform presidential rule before the parliamentary elections in 2011,” Montalto said. “This should allow the privatization program, the passage of other laws and fiscal reforms to progress more smoothly through the second half before campaigning for the parliamentary elections starts next year.”

Support for Civic Platform party rose to 53 percent from 50 percent, Rzeczpospolita reported on March 11. Support for Kaczynski’s Law & Justice, was unchanged at 27 percent, while the Left Democratic Alliance increased its support to 8 percent from 7 percent, according to a poll of 1,000 adults by researcher GfK Polonia.

Poland, the biggest of the EU’s eastern members and the only EU economy to have avoided a contraction during the credit crisis, will post a budget deficit of 7.5 percent of gross domestic product this year, with debt of 57 percent of GDP, the European Commission estimates. Economic output will expand 3 percent in 2010 after growing 1.7 percent last year, the government estimates.

Poland may also improve its ties with Russia after the disaster. Kaczynski, an advocate of extending North Atlantic Treaty Organization membership to Russia’s borders by including Georgia and Ukraine, didn’t attend an April 7 reconciliation meeting with Tusk and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to mark the 1940 Katyn massacre, flying instead with his own delegation three days later.


Russian Efforts

Since the crash, Russia’s political leaders have taken pains to demonstrate their sympathy and assist Poland. President Dmitry Medvedev appointed Putin the head of the special commission looking into the crash and made an address to Polish citizens expressing his condolences. Today is a national day of mourning in Russia to mark the Polish deaths.

“The momentum that’s been generated over the past few days is just astounding,” said Bartlomiej Sienkiewicz, who heads Othago, a Warsaw-based consultancy that helps firms do business in former Soviet Union countries. “It means the possibility of doing serious business with Russia and breaking the mold of 20 years of strained relations.”


To contact the reporter on this story: David McQuaid in Warsaw dmcquaid1@bloomberg.net.

Kaczynski Death to Aid Pro-Euro Tusk’s Grip on Poland 12 April 2010 (Bloomberg) http://tinyurl.com/y67rnfx
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: worcesteradam on April 12, 2010, 07:28:15 am
However, questions were being asked last night about why a roll-call of Poland's influential politicians and military chiefs were allowed to travel on the same Tu-154 aeroplane. Russian has withdrawn its Tu-154 fleet, the workhorse of Eastern Bloc civil aviation in the 1970s and 80s, from service because the planes are expensive on fuel and do not meet international noise restrictions. While there have been 66 crashes involving the planes in the last four decades, Poland has not retired the aeroplane because of cost. The presidential plane was fully overhauled in December.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/7579076/Polish-plane-crash-investigators-rule-out-technical-fault.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 07:48:00 am
Kaczynski Death to Aid Pro-Euro Tusk’s Grip on Poland (Update1)
12 April 2010
, by David McQuaid (Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aEHmTbD9_Grs

April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s pro-euro Civic Platform party is likely to cement its grip on power in a presidential election that must now be held by June after President Lech Kaczynski  died in a plane crash.

Polls taken before the April 10 accident showed Civic Platform’s candidate, Bronislaw Komorowski, was running ahead of Kaczynski and other contenders in an election originally scheduled for October. The tragedy, in Smolensk, western Russia, killed all 96 passengers on route to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet forces.

Following the crash, in which Left Democratic Alliance party candidate Jerzy Smajdzinski also died, Komorowski is left as the sole surviving contender of Poland’s three major parties. The only significant impediment to a Civic Platform victory may be the possibility of a wave of sympathy for the dead president, political commentators said, and that still probably won’t be enough to prevent Tusk extending his control over the political system.

“This changes the whole political dynamic,” said Marek Matraszek, Warsaw based head of CEC Government Relations, which advises companies dealing with the government. “Does it cement Civic Platform’s dominance? That’s a very strong possibility.”

With control of the government and the presidency, Tusk’s party would have more freedom to pass legislation needed to keep the budget in check and satisfy investors focused on fiscal health.


‘Hostile Figures’

Kaczynski, who over the past three years had tried to block government efforts to overhaul Poland’s debt-ridden healthcare and pension systems, was also the last EU leader besides Vaclav Klaus of the Czech Republic to sign the Lisbon Treaty, and opposed Tusk’s euro adoption goal.

Kaczynski placed a euro-skeptic ally in charge of the central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek, who was also killed in the crash.

“Investors viewed President Kaczynski and Skrzypek as hostile figures,” said Preston Keat, the London-based research director of Eurasia Group, a political risk consulting company. “What kept coming up in client meetings is that they were the two blocking forces to market reform.”


Zloty Interventions

Under Governor Skrzypek, Poland’s central bank last week intervened to cap zloty gains for the first time in 12 years. The currency is up 6 percent against the euro this year, making it eastern EU’s best performer in the period. The bank appointed Skrzypek’s deputy Piotr Wiesiolek as acting governor and will hold a meeting today to discuss how to proceed.

“My sense is that the view that the zloty is appreciating too far and too fast is widely held in the central bank, so there’s no reason to believe they won’t come back into the market again next week or the week after,” said Blaise Antin, managing director of TCW Group Inc. in Los Angeles, which has $115 billion under management, including $4 billion in emerging market assets.

The zloty lost as much as 0.7 percent against the euro today before recovering to trade at 3.873 at 10:04 a.m. in Warsaw. The currency will probably stabilize after investors digest the initial shock of the plane crash, Citigroup Inc. and RBC Capital said.


‘Out of the Way’

The central bank had also signaled it was deciding when to start raising interest rates from a record low 3.5 percent.

“Uncertainty should be out of the way by June and we stick for now with our call of three rate hikes from July, but with risks to the downside given prospects of further intervention,” said Peter Attard Montalto, an emerging markets economist at Nomura International Plc, in a note to clients. He expects the country to join the pre-euro Exchange Rate Mechanism, a prelude to adopting the euro, in 2011.

Poland abandoned its 2012 euro adoption target last July after it became clear it would miss the bloc’s fiscal targets. Tusk now says 2015 is a “realistic” date.

Though polls show Komorowski was likely to win the October elections, an earlier presidential victory may allow the Civic Platform more time to push through policy changes.


Longer Rule

“There is now likely to be a longer period of Civic Platform presidential rule before the parliamentary elections in 2011,” Montalto said. “This should allow the privatization program, the passage of other laws and fiscal reforms to progress more smoothly through the second half before campaigning for the parliamentary elections starts next year.”

Support for Civic Platform party rose to 53 percent from 50 percent, Rzeczpospolita reported on March 11. Support for Kaczynski’s Law & Justice, was unchanged at 27 percent, while the Left Democratic Alliance increased its support to 8 percent from 7 percent, according to a poll of 1,000 adults by researcher GfK Polonia.

Poland, the biggest of the EU’s eastern members and the only EU economy to have avoided a contraction during the credit crisis, will post a budget deficit of 7.5 percent of gross domestic product this year, with debt of 57 percent of GDP, the European Commission estimates. Economic output will expand 3 percent in 2010 after growing 1.7 percent last year, the government estimates.

Poland may also improve its ties with Russia after the disaster. Kaczynski, an advocate of extending North Atlantic Treaty Organization membership to Russia’s borders by including Georgia and Ukraine, didn’t attend an April 7 reconciliation meeting with Tusk and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to mark the 1940 Katyn massacre, flying instead with his own delegation three days later.


Russian Efforts

Since the crash, Russia’s political leaders have taken pains to demonstrate their sympathy and assist Poland. President Dmitry Medvedev appointed Putin the head of the special commission looking into the crash and made an address to Polish citizens expressing his condolences. Today is a national day of mourning in Russia to mark the Polish deaths.

“The momentum that’s been generated over the past few days is just astounding,” said Bartlomiej Sienkiewicz, who heads Othago, a Warsaw-based consultancy that helps firms do business in former Soviet Union countries. “It means the possibility of doing serious business with Russia and breaking the mold of 20 years of strained relations.”


To contact the reporter on this story: David McQuaid in Warsaw dmcquaid1@bloomberg.net.

Kaczynski Death to Aid Pro-Euro Tusk’s Grip on Poland 12 April 2010 (Bloomberg) http://tinyurl.com/y67rnfx

just like jfk...first order ofbusiness...change policy directions.

i just had to laugh at this:

"President Dmitry Medvedev appointed Putin the head of the special commission looking into the crash"

Yeah, Dmitry appointed Putin.  That is like Obama appointing David Rockefeller.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 12, 2010, 08:58:41 am
A dramatic end to a divided era in modern Poland's history


Doug Saunders
The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/a-dramatic-end-to-a-divided-era-in-modern-polands-history/article1530957/)
Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:28 EDT


(http://www.sott.net/image/image/s1/35895/full/poland_bro_webcr_582222gm_a.jpg)

Jaroslaw Kaczynski kneels before his twin brother's coffin at the Warsaw airport on Sunday, April, 11. Lech Kaczynski, the Polish president, was killed in a plane crash on Saturday.


For the second time in 60 years, Poles around the world have been horrified to learn that their country's best-known leaders have been killed, suddenly and tragically, in a forest outside the western Russian city of Smolensk.

Saturday's crash of an aging Tupolev 154 jet during a fog-blinded landing was a cosmic insult to the Polish imagination, a catastrophe that wiped out a generation of leaders and placed a stark punctuation mark on the political drama that has defined Polish affairs since the defeat of communism in 1989.

It occurs at a moment of glory for Poland, as the formerly poor country, almost alone in Europe, has managed to avoid recession. It is often said by Poles that they are a people who are punished for their triumphs; Saturday seemed to confirm this belief.

It was also, as every Pole knows, a freakish repeat of history. It was outside Smolensk, in Katyn forest in March of 1940, that Joseph Stalin's agents machine-gunned as many as 22,000 of Poland's top military, intellectual and civil-service leaders to death and dumped their bodies in mass graves, terminating the country's independence for half a century.

"Seventy years ago, the Soviets murdered the political elite in Katyn," Lech Walesa, the Solidarity hero and former president, said yesterday. "Now, again, the political elite has been killed on its way to the same place."

It was en route to a planned Saturday-morning ceremony to mark that massacre - the second such ceremony in a month, and part of a new willingness by Moscow to acknowledge the atrocity - that Poland's presidential jet went down.

The fiery crash killed off a wide cross-section of Poland's most important political, military and financial figures, many of them heroes of the anti-communist struggle. The dead include the chairman of the central bank, the chief of staff of the army, the commander of the navy, the heads of air and land forces, the head of Poland's intelligence service, and several important members of parliament.

There were important figures from almost every political party, but most notable was the crash's devastating effect on Poland's conservative Law and Justice Party.

By killing president Lech Kaczynski and a number of his most important political allies, the crash is not only a national tragedy and an administrative crisis, but almost certainly the end of a colourful and tumultuous era in Polish politics.

Poland has been divided for the past decade into two factions that emerged from the success of the anti-communist struggle in 1989: a liberal, European-oriented faction led by Prime Minister Donald Tusk and a conservative, religious and nationalist faction led by Mr. Kaczynski.

The Katyn massacre had already been marked in an official ceremony last Wednesday with Prime Minister Tusk and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. Mr. Kaczynski, an outspoken foe of both the Russians and Mr. Tusk, was not invited. Saturday's ceremony was his own self-organized response, and he had brought much of Poland's conservative elite to show the influence of Poland's other solitude.

As such, the crash was the final result of a stubborn determination to show Poland's independence, and to display his own political influence. It seemed to mark the self-immolation of a political movement whose future was troubled.

Mr. Kaczynski and his identical-twin brother, Jaroslaw, were household names in Poland as child actors who starred in popular movies during the communist years, and then became known for their early and outspoken involvement in the Solidarity movement, beginning in the late 1970s.

When that movement negotiated the successful defeat of communism at the end of 1989, its key leaders split, with one faction taking a liberal, free-market, European-minded approach and the other, led by the Kaczynskis, building strong support on a conservative return to powerful images of church, family, farm and country.

At its high point in the middle of the 2000s, Mr. Kaczynski's conservative Law and Justice Party was a dynastic force in Poland, with Lech Kaczynski holding the presidency and Jaroslaw Kaczynski the prime ministership.

Mr. Kaczynski and his brother divided Poles deeply, embarrassing more elite and cosmopolitan urbanites with their outbursts against feminism, homosexuality, the European Union and Germany during a period when Poland was developing strong economic and social ties with the outside word.

Others rallied behind a politics that appealed to Poland's staunchly Roman Catholic, agrarian self-image - a politics that, for a time in the last decade, proved very successful in foreign policy after the Kaczynskis forged a tight alliance with U.S. president George W. Bush. That alliance brought economic and trade benefits to Poland, including the planned staging of a major U.S. antimissile base in Poland (a move that infuriated Moscow); it also involved Poland sending a large number of troops to Iraq and Afghanistan.

But it is not just their political supporters who will mourn Mr. Kaczynski this week - and not just because their courageous leadership of anti-communist struggles is admired and respected by almost everyone in Poland. The Kaczynskis, despite their sometimes outrageous divisiveness, oversaw the end of a difficult decade of corruption and halting growth, and ushered Poland into the European Union in 2004, a move that transformed the country's fortunes in stunning ways.

The defeat of Jaroslaw Kaczynski by Mr. Tusk (a former rival for the presidency) in the 2007 parliamentary elections ushered in a more divided age in Polish politics, with Law and Justice controlling some government departments, courts and military bodies, and Civic Forum controlling others.

But Poland's dramatic economic resurgence during the past three years, during which it has been one of the few countries to escape the credit collapse without entering recession or having banks fall, has turned fortunes toward Mr. Tusk's camp.

In that light, Mr. Kaczynski's angry recalcitrance toward the European Union and his party's alliance with xenophobic far-right parties in the European parliament has seemed counterproductive to a larger number of Poles.

Many analysts expected presidential elections this autumn to produce a victory for the liberals, and thus a collapse and crisis of identity for the nationalist conservative branch of the old anti-communist alliance.

Yet the admirable side of their legacy was visible this weekend, as millions of Poles mourned the death of their leaders and heroes, and replaced their top political and military figures with temporary administrators, without any sign of political instability or constitutional crisis. The figures who died on Saturday should be remembered for having turned Poland into the kind of country that can safely weather a tragedy of such magnitude.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: phasma on April 12, 2010, 09:02:04 am
JESUS

Do you all see how little they care for what "we" think?
it is with contempt that they carry out these attacks - they dont care if we figure it out because they now they have us by the balls - WHAT can WE do !?
They didnt even try to make this look like a believeable accident.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 09:51:47 am
Analysis: Plane Crash Boosts Polish Prime Minister Tusk
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/analysis-plane-crash-boosts-polish-prime-minister-tusk/403693.html
12 April 2010 Reuters

WARSAW — The plane crash that killed Poland's president and leading opposition politicians has removed in one stroke key opponents of Prime Minister Donald Tusk and his ruling centrist Civic Platform. While a shocking blow to Poland's body politic, analysts say constitutional mechanisms will ensure that there is no power vacuum and there will not be any long-term impact on stability. The crash will reinforce Tusk's already considerable dominance of Polish politics, and analysts say it may have relatively muted long-term consequences, although they also stress that it is too early to predict the full impact of such an unprecedented accident on the national psychology. President Lech Kaczynski, his top aides, the central bank governor and seven lawmakers from the main opposition Law and Justice Party were among 96 people killed when their plane crashed in thick fog near Smolensk in western Russia. "[The] plane crash will raise concerns about [Polish] political stability and relations with Russia, but the outlook is reassuring regarding the institutional transition for the presidency and the central bank," said Preston Keat, an analyst for Eurasia Group, a London-based political risk consultancy. "The leading political and policy actors will move quickly to stabilize the situation," he said. Kaczynski, 60, and his twin brother, Jaroslaw, who heads the Law and Justice Party, have spearheaded opposition to Tusk's pro-market economic policies, his embrace of the European Union and his push for early adoption of the euro. Lech Kaczynski, known for his combative nationalism, his devout Roman Catholicism and deep distrust of both the EU and of Vladimir Putin's Russia, had been expected to seek a new five-year mandate in a presidential election due this fall.

Under Polish law, parliamentary speaker Bronislaw Komorowski is now acting president and the election will take place by the end of June. Komorowski, 58, is the candidate of Tusk's Civic Platform, and opinion polls have shown him winning the post. The candidate of the small leftist opposition SLD, Jerzy Szmajdzinski, also died in Saturday's crash. In Poland, the government holds most power, but the president has a say in foreign policy and can veto laws. Kaczynski irked Tusk's government by blocking media, health and pension reforms. "When all the dust has settled, I don't think this tragedy will fundamentally change Poland's situation economically or in any other way," one government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters. "There are a lot of uncertainties at the moment. People are very upset, but the risks seem relatively limited. Poland's democracy should prove its resilience. The constitution states clearly what must happen," he said. "The presidential election campaign will be difficult, but I expect people will show restraint in these circumstances," the government official said. Many expect an upsurge of sympathy for Jaroslaw Kaczynski and the Law and Justice Party, a populist right-wing party, in coming weeks, but it is far from clear whether this will translate into votes.

The Law and Justice Party has been trailing Tusk's Civic Platform in opinion polls, with about 25 percent support against 50 percent for the ruling party. Poland is due to hold a national election next year. "The point is that [Lech] Kaczynski was set to be voted out later this year and all the aides who died with him would have been out of power too," said Krzysztof Bobinski, head of the Unia & Polska Foundation, a pro-EU think tank. "This disaster could provoke a generational change in PiS [Law and Justice Party] as Jaroslaw will be shattered," Bobinski said. "He was very close to his brother. He has completely dominated PiS, but this could now be an opportunity for younger party members to come forward." The devastating blow to the Law and Justice Party is not confined to party politics. Among those killed in Saturday's crash were Kaczynski allies such as central bank chief Slawomir Skrzypek and Janusz Kurtyka, head of the National Remembrance Institute, which supervises Poland's communist-era archives. Both Skrzypek and Kurtyka had been thorns in the Tusk government's side, on economic issues and on Poland's communist past, respectively. Internationally, Kaczynski's death is unlikely to have much impact. After a long delay, Kaczynski had been forced to sign the EU's Lisbon Treaty, which was strongly backed by the Tusk government. The treaty revamps the bloc's institutions. Kaczynski, a staunch defender of Ukraine and Georgia against what he called Russia's "new imperialism," also found himself largely sidelined by the Tusk government as it worked to build better economic and political relations with Moscow.




I am not sure that Putin's hands are totally clean. I do not think he initiated it. We do know he is very less than forthcoming and is getting a better line of rhetoric from Tusk than Lech. Lech worked with 2 other CIA-controlled countries...Georgia and Ukraine. I am pretty sure that US had little to do with this as Poland was helping those CIA controlled countries which are basically satellite offices for intelligence and infiltration. But EU had the most to gain, no doubt. This New War is financial at the heart and that is overly apparent in Poland's case. Goldman Sachs landing in Warsaw just two weeks ago deserves serious scrutiny...their entire agenda is to demolish countries from within just like they did to Greece.

Possible scenario: Eurocrates mapped out this scenario, committed the act and then got Russia to obstruct justice in exchange for 40 years of pipeline. Eurocrats now get to force the Euro on the people.

The biggest loser (besides the Polish people of course) would probably be Belarus (even though they may have gotten suckered into accepting some parts of this operation) and the US.

Brzezinski and Obama might be in somewhat of panic mode, but Brzezinski and Soros must be getting some very high level information on this one. This has some major implications. The CIA secret prisons is not enough IMO for US involvement. They are everywhere, all over the place. What may dictate US involvement would be how much control the Euro-Illuminazi banksters truly have over us. If we were involved then it is a sign that our intelligence apparatus has pretty much already handed over sovereignty to Bilderberg

There are 5 or even 10 other such scenarios and every time I think about them it makes everything so very clear...

We need to get out of entangling alliances. We need to end this crumbling empire of violence towards others and manipulations of sovereign states which only diminishes the wealth and power to We The People. We need to continue exposing the treason committed by the private federal reserve bankers and stop the violent revolution that was thrust upon us. We need a peaceful country free from the terrorists that hate us for our freedoms!  Treaties with no one and trade with everyone. We can do so much more for ourselves and the world in leading by example and not through the barrel of a gun.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 09:53:51 am
Two conflicting stories from Bloomberg concerning the Head of the Central Bank...



Poland Has No Reason to Rush Central Bank Governor Appointment
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-12/poland-has-no-reason-to-rush-central-bank-governor-appointment.html
April 12, 2010, 7:26 AM EDT
By Dorota Bartyzel and Monika Rozlal

April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Poland has no reason to rush the appointment of a replacement for central bank Governor Slawomir Skrzypek, who died in the April 10 plane crash that also killed the nation’s president, said Bronislaw Komorowski, the parliamentary speaker who’s assumed presidential duties. His comments contradicted a call for an immediate appointment to maintain continuity of monetary policy by a former central bank policy maker. “Unless a new governor is nominated and confirmed by parliament, there won’t be any way to call the next rate meeting” scheduled for April 27-28, Dariusz Filar, an economic adviser to Prime Minister Donald Tusk, told TVN CNBC television today. “Choosing a new governor is vital to ensuring policy continuity in Poland.” The central bank on April 9 intervened in the currency market for the first time since 1998, buying euros to curb the zloty’s gains after a 6 percent gain this year. Decisions on interest rates and currency policy are made by the Monetary Policy Council, which has 10 members, including the governor, who presides over policy meetings and casts a tie-breaking vote. The bank had also signaled it was deciding when to start raising rates from a record low 3.5 percent. It left the benchmark seven-day reference rate unchanged on March 31, expecting inflation to slow to 1.4 percent by the third quarter, below its 2.5 percent target-range midpoint. “Uncertainty should be out of the way by June and we stick for now with our call of three rate hikes from July, but with risks to the downside given prospects of further intervention,” said Peter Attard Montalto, an emerging markets economist at Nomura International Plc, in a note. He expects the country to join the pre-euro Exchange Rate Mechanism, a prelude to adopting the euro, in 2011.

‘Realistic’
Poland abandoned its 2012 euro adoption target in July after it became clear it would miss the bloc’s fiscal targets. Tusk says 2015 is a “realistic” date. Potential candidates for the governorship include Tusk’s senior economic adviser, Jan Krzysztof Bielecki, a former premier and ex-head of the country’s second-largest bank, Pekao SA, said Rafal Benecki, a senior economist at ING Bank Slaski in Warsaw. Also under consideration may be Andrzej Bratkowski, a former deputy governor who sits on the MPC; and Jerzy Pruski, also a previous deputy governor. “The best thing would be to find someone right away to preserve the stability and credibility of the central bank,” Benecki said. “The most likely candidate is Bielecki, because he has political experience and support. Right behind is Bratkowski, who has the know-how to step right into the job without missing a beat.” The governor’s duties are being handled by Deputy Governor Piotr Wiesiolek, 46, who joined the management board in March 2008. A former analyst and fund manager for Deutsche Bank AG and JP Morgan, he was hired at the central bank’s foreign operations department between 1992 and 1996, where he dealt with security portfolios management. Before becoming deputy governor, he was deputy chief executive officer of Bank Ochrony Srodowiska SA. “Undoubtedly Wiesiolek is very competent so the markets shouldn’t be concerned about the continuity of the central bank’s operations,” said Urszula Krynska, an economist at Bank Millennium in Warsaw.

‘Extremely Delicate Issue’
Other candidates may be former policy makers Boguslaw Grabowski and Dariusz Filar and Finance Minister Jacek Rostowski, wrote Jana Krajcova, an analyst at Ceska Sporitelna, in an e-mailed comment. The naming of a new governor “is an extremely delicate issue in the current circumstances,” said Monika Kurtek, an economist at Bank BPH. “I think the appointee will not be anyone closely related with the ruling Civic Platform. This would simply be politically incorrect,” The MPC today began a meeting to elect a chairman, though it’s not clear whether he or she will lead all the coming meetings or just today’s, Anna Zielinska-Glebocka, a member of the MPC said by phone. “We are still in the process of clearing up this issue.” Komorowski, who assumed the duties of President Lech Kaczynski after the crash and is empowered to choose Skrzypek’s succesor, said on television late yesterday that “we need quick decisions.” Still, some economists and analysts said he may delay the appointment to avoid any appearance of usurping the deceased president’s legacy.

‘Tough Spot’
“Komorowski and Civic Platform are in a very tough spot,” said Radoslaw Markowski, a professor of politics at the Polish Academy of Sciences. “One wrong word or bad appointment and the public mood could swing against them.” The central bank governor is appointed by the president and must be approved by a simple majority of lawmakers. As acting president, Komorowski, who is also the official presidential candidate of Tusk’s ruling Civic Platform party, is entitled to name a candidate without waiting for presidential elections, said Piotr Winczorek, a professor of constitutional law at Warsaw University. The zloty erased earlier declines of as much as 0.7 percent, before trading 0.1 percent higher at 3.8658 per euro as of 11:05 a.m. in Warsaw, bringing this year’s advance to 6.2 percent. The WIG20 Index of shares climbed 0.4 percent, extending gains in 2010 to 7.4 percent. Bonds traded little changed with five-year securities yielding 5.16 percent, according to HSBC Holdings Plc prices.



Poland Must Name Central Bank Head Immediately, Official Says
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-12/poland-must-name-central-bank-head-immediately-official-says.html
April 12, 2010, 6:22 AM EDT By Dorota Bartyzel and Monika Rozlal

April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Poland must immediately replace central bank Governor Slawomir Skrzypek, who died in the April 10 plane crash that also killed the country’s president, and has already started the process of finding a successor, a government official said. The economy and concern for the country’s finances require a quick decision and the authorities have started handling the matter, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. The official’s comments come after Bronislaw Komorowski, the parliamentary speaker who assumed the duties of President Lech Kaczynski after the crash, said on television late yesterday that “we need quick decisions, because the governor calls meetings of the Monetary Policy Council, and that body oversees exchange rates, a role absolutely essential to the functioning of government.” The central bank governor is appointed by the president and must be approved by a simple majority of lawmakers. As acting president, Komorowski is entitled to name a candidate without waiting for presidential elections, said Piotr Winczorek, a professor of constitutional law at Warsaw University. “I can’t see any reason why Komorowski should delay the decision,” said Winczorek by phone. “It may be even better for general sentiment in the market to appoint a governor without waiting for presidential elections.”
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 10:08:55 am
Bloomberg does a nice summary of Cui Bono...



Kaczynski Death to Aid Pro-Euro Tusk’s Grip on Poland
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-12/kaczynski-death-to-aid-pro-euro-tusk-s-grip-on-poland-update1-.html
By David McQuaid April 12, 2010, 4:15 AM EDT

April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s pro-euro Civic Platform party is likely to cement its grip on power in a presidential election that must now be held by June after President Lech Kaczynski died in a plane crash. Polls taken before the April 10 accident showed Civic Platform’s candidate, Bronislaw Komorowski, was running ahead of Kaczynski and other contenders in an election originally scheduled for October. The tragedy, in Smolensk, western Russia, killed all 96 passengers on route to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet forces. Following the crash, in which Left Democratic Alliance party candidate Jerzy Smajdzinski also died, Komorowski is left as the sole surviving contender of Poland’s three major parties. The only significant impediment to a Civic Platform victory may be the possibility of a wave of sympathy for the dead president, political commentators said, and that still probably won’t be enough to prevent Tusk extending his control over the political system. “This changes the whole political dynamic,” said Marek Matraszek, Warsaw based head of CEC Government Relations, which advises companies dealing with the government. “Does it cement Civic Platform’s dominance? That’s a very strong possibility.” With control of the government and the presidency, Tusk’s party would have more freedom to pass legislation needed to keep the budget in check and satisfy investors focused on fiscal health.

‘Hostile Figures’
Kaczynski, who over the past three years had tried to block government efforts to overhaul Poland’s debt-ridden healthcare and pension systems, was also the last EU leader besides Vaclav Klaus of the Czech Republic to sign the Lisbon Treaty, and opposed Tusk’s euro adoption goal. Kaczynski placed a euro-skeptic ally in charge of the central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek, who was also killed in the crash. “Investors viewed President Kaczynski and Skrzypek as hostile figures,” said Preston Keat, the London-based research director of Eurasia Group, a political risk consulting company. “What kept coming up in client meetings is that they were the two blocking forces to market reform.”

Zloty Interventions
Under Governor Skrzypek, Poland’s central bank last week intervened to cap zloty gains for the first time in 12 years. The currency is up 6 percent against the euro this year, making it eastern EU’s best performer in the period. The bank appointed Skrzypek’s deputy Piotr Wiesiolek as acting governor and will hold a meeting today to discuss how to proceed. “My sense is that the view that the zloty is appreciating too far and too fast is widely held in the central bank, so there’s no reason to believe they won’t come back into the market again next week or the week after,” said Blaise Antin, managing director of TCW Group Inc. in Los Angeles, which has $115 billion under management, including $4 billion in emerging market assets. The zloty lost as much as 0.7 percent against the euro today before recovering to trade at 3.873 at 10:04 a.m. in Warsaw. The currency will probably stabilize after investors digest the initial shock of the plane crash, Citigroup Inc. and RBC Capital said.

‘Out of the Way’
The central bank had also signaled it was deciding when to start raising interest rates from a record low 3.5 percent. “Uncertainty should be out of the way by June and we stick for now with our call of three rate hikes from July, but with risks to the downside given prospects of further intervention,” said Peter Attard Montalto, an emerging markets economist at Nomura International Plc, in a note to clients. He expects the country to join the pre-euro Exchange Rate Mechanism, a prelude to adopting the euro, in 2011. Poland abandoned its 2012 euro adoption target last July after it became clear it would miss the bloc’s fiscal targets. Tusk now says 2015 is a “realistic” date. Though polls show Komorowski was likely to win the October elections, an earlier presidential victory may allow the Civic Platform more time to push through policy changes.

Longer Rule
“There is now likely to be a longer period of Civic Platform presidential rule before the parliamentary elections in 2011,” Montalto said. “This should allow the privatization program, the passage of other laws and fiscal reforms to progress more smoothly through the second half before campaigning for the parliamentary elections starts next year.” Support for Civic Platform party rose to 53 percent from 50 percent, Rzeczpospolita reported on March 11. Support for Kaczynski’s Law & Justice, was unchanged at 27 percent, while the Left Democratic Alliance increased its support to 8 percent from 7 percent, according to a poll of 1,000 adults by researcher GfK Polonia. Poland, the biggest of the EU’s eastern members and the only EU economy to have avoided a contraction during the credit crisis, will post a budget deficit of 7.5 percent of gross domestic product this year, with debt of 57 percent of GDP, the European Commission estimates. Economic output will expand 3 percent in 2010 after growing 1.7 percent last year, the government estimates. Poland may also improve its ties with Russia after the disaster. Kaczynski, an advocate of extending North Atlantic Treaty Organization membership to Russia’s borders by including Georgia and Ukraine, didn’t attend an April 7 reconciliation meeting with Tusk and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to mark the 1940 Katyn massacre, flying instead with his own delegation three days later.

Russian Efforts
Since the crash, Russia’s political leaders have taken pains to demonstrate their sympathy and assist Poland. President Dmitry Medvedev appointed Putin the head of the special commission looking into the crash and made an address to Polish citizens expressing his condolences. Today is a national day of mourning in Russia to mark the Polish deaths. “The momentum that’s been generated over the past few days is just astounding,” said Bartlomiej Sienkiewicz, who heads Othago, a Warsaw-based consultancy that helps firms do business in former Soviet Union countries. “It means the possibility of doing serious business with Russia and breaking the mold of 20 years of strained relations.”
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 12, 2010, 01:23:08 pm
POLISH INTERPRETATION OF THE CRASH EVENTS, QUESTIONING WHETHER IT WAS TRULY 'AN ACCIDENT!'

From portal GlobalnaSwiadomosc.com
http://www.globalnaswiadomosc.com/prezydentzginal.htm#googtrans/pl/en

(EDITED AND TRANSLATED FOR ENGLISH READERS)

Here's what we managed to collect from the chaotically-collected information from the media:

* In the early morning landing at the airport in Smolensk approaches Transportation IL. The plane touches the runway, but was ordered to leave the runway and land at another airport.
 
*  At about 8:40 the Polish government is trying to land the plane. They make four attempts to land. At 8:56 the plane is at a height of several meters, but in the wrong position - 70 meters aside from the axis of the runway, but the wreckage falls 2 km from the runway. This is strange, when you consider that the remains of the aircraft ended up scattered 1 km from the crash site from a plane was flying barely above the trees. The bulk of the wreckage is in flames next to a tree.

* A witness testifies that the fire was small and an explosion had not heard. He only hear a muffled thud.

* At 9:36 the fire is extinguished.

*  A polish reporter accidentally found himself on the outskirts of the airport within 10 minutes after the crash. He began to record the arrival of many government cars (within 10 minutes after the crash!). He intends to hide the tape recording. A few minutes later, he is stopped on the pretext of an invalid visa. Security professionals want to take his equipment but he convinces them that he has no tape recording. A few hours later is released.

* 9:41 - Russian media report the disaster, and that nobody survived.

* Medvedev appoints a special presidential commission, having examined the reasons for the disaster. The commission is headed by Prime Minister Putin personally. At the same time investigation by prosecutors begins regarding the breach of airplane pilot flight safety (sic).

The whole situation is nothing but confusion and more and more questions need to be answered as soon as possible:

1. There are cases known to us that the security services committed to the joint flight of the President, Head of National Security and the entire staff of bosses and important part of the political elite. Who allowed it and why?

2. Why was the Russian airplane landing banned, although they had already approved the flight and the airplane was given approval by the Russians?

3. The military airport in Smolensk meets all Russian standards for airlines. It is said, contradictorily, they had a lack of guiding the latest equipment. This does not mean, however, they didn't have them there at all. They were uncertain of the guidance radar and their communication with the flight tower. Why was plane found within 70 meters on the side of a runway?

4. The media reported poor visibility. TV coverage of the accident site, however, show that it was good enough to turn from a distance of up to several hundred meters. The pilot could not see the trees and ground antennas. So what happened?

5. Why do the Russian authorities quickly notify message of one of the most experienced Polish pilots, immediately launching an investigation from the relevant department?

6. Finally, last question - how is possible that an aircraft at an altitude of just a few meters had wreckage over such a large area? Trees in the area are sparse, and small. What could have contributed to such a large scale catastrophe? Recently in the Netherlands there was a similar accident, and nearly all survived.

Our media puts great emphasis on the 'admirable' behavior Medvedev and Putin, while downplaying these facts mentioned here. Just 2 hours later, another witness said he saw a large ball of fire, where both reports from the accident scene said they put out the fire quickly...the information is blatantly contradictory. We hope that this time the truth will get out. This is very important for us - Poles, and it is important for the whole world. The consequences of this what happened may be much more significant than we suspect.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 01:39:57 pm
Did Global Elite Kill Polish President Kaczynski?
http://www.infowars.com/did-global-elite-kill-polish-president-kaczynski/
Kurt Nimmo Infowars.com April 12, 2010

Damian Thompson, writing for the Daily Telegraph, says there will be plenty of conspiracy theories floating around cyberspace in response to the death of Polish president Lech Kaczynski and a large number of Polish VIPs in a plane crash last week.   

Donald Tusk is pro-euro and an advocate of neoliberal economic policies.   

“One of the nastier consequences of international disasters is that conspiracy theorists rush to judgment – and I do mean rush,” writes Thompson. “The fact that the president and so many of the Polish elite were on a visit to Russia will feature prominently in the fantastic stories being cooked up in cyberspace right now. And I can say with confidence that they are being cooked up, because Poland, like most East European countries, is obsessed with conspiracies. Russians, Jews, Americans, Freemasons – they will all be blamed. Some stories will be more credible than others.’

He missed one: the international bankster cartel.

Not only did Poland decline to be a victim of the bankster loan sharking operation, Poland’s central bank had the audacity to offer the IMF a loan to “help other countries overcome the effects of the global crisis,” the AFP reported on March 29, 2010.

Poland was the only member of the 27-nation European Union to have experienced growth in 2009 and the IMF forecast that its economy would expand by 2.75 percent this year and by 3.25 percent in 2011.

Poland’s zloty grew by 1.7 percent in 2009, a remarkable feat given that European Union countries contracted by an average of 4.1 percent and no other EU economy grew at all. “Poland avoided eastern Europe’s worst lending binges. Kaczynski frustrated some of his opponents by being in no rush to head towards the euro party,” the Daily Telegraph reports today.

Earlier this month, Czech Central Bank Vice Deputy Mojmir Hampl said the IMF fueled Eastern Europe’s crisis to create a situation that would compel regional states to request the help from the globalist loan sharking operation.

“He said that the institution, which offered emergency funds for Hungary, Lithuania, Ukraine and Romania, misinterpreted some data because they are looking for new clients as the leadership changed,” HotNews reported.

Indeed, the leadership has now changed in Poland and it looks like a pro-euro political leader may replace Kaczynski. “Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s pro-euro Civic Platform party is likely to cement its grip on power in a presidential election that must now be held by June after President Lech Kaczynski died in a plane crash,” reports Bloomberg today.

Kaczynski resisted Tusk’s effort to resist adopting the euro. “Kaczynski, who over the past three years had tried to block government efforts to overhaul Poland’s debt-ridden healthcare and pension systems, was also the last EU leader besides Vaclav Klaus of the Czech Republic to sign the Lisbon Treaty, and opposed Tusk’s euro adoption goal.”

In addition, Kaczynski placed a euro-skeptic ally in charge of the central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek, who was also killed in the crash.

It looks like Poland may soon join the EU Borg hive with open arms.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: phasma on April 12, 2010, 01:44:51 pm
Telegraph. Of Blackjack genre.
Right,
They`d know about "conspiracies"
But he`s right in pointing out that there is something definately "off" about so many high officials being on the same plane at the same time.
What situation could arise here in the UK for example, that would get the prime minister, head of the bank of england, head of army / air force / navy / MI5 / MI6 and for good measure, why not the queen !
I can think f no reason why allof those people would be on the same flight - short of the sh1t was about to hit the fan and they were bailing out . . .
but even then, the military guys would stay behind i guess, so that leaves me with no plausible reason for them all being on one flight.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 12, 2010, 02:14:40 pm
Q&A: What's next for Polish central bank after governor's death?

Kuba Jaworowski and Chris Borowski
WARSAW
Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:02am EDT

WARSAW (Reuters) - Poland's central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek and President Lech Kaczynski died in a plane crash in Russia on Saturday.

World  |  Russia

Following is analysis of issues surrounding the appointment of Skrzypek's successor and possible policy changes at the central bank.

HOW AND WHEN WILL A SUCCESSOR BE APPOINTED?

The Polish constitution stipulates that the governor is appointed by the president for a six-year term, but his candidacy needs to be approved by parliament. Skrzypek was mid-way through his term.

But Kaczynski's death clouds the process; the law does not clearly indicate whether Parliamentary Speaker Bronislaw Komorowski, who has taken over as acting president, can make the appointment before the presidential election that he must call within 14 days and hold within two months after that.

The central bank law requires that a new governor be appointed within three months of a vacancy, which would leave hardly any time after the election. Some analysts say that in order to signal stability at the central bank, the appointment could be made before the election if parliament reaches a consensus on a candidate.

Skrzypek's top deputy Piotr Wiesiolek has taken over day-to-day management of the central bank, but it is not yet clear whether he will take on other responsibilities, such as voting during meetings of the Monetary Policy Council.

MPC member Elzbieta Chojna-Duch said in a television interview on Sunday that the council would discuss several legal questions surrounding the transition period, including how it would choose its chair for upcoming meetings.

The MPC usually meets twice a month, with its second sitting in the last week of the month deciding on interest rates.

WHO ARE POTENTIAL CANDIDATES TO SUCCEED SKRZYPEK?

Analysts are floating several possible candidates:

-- Boguslaw Grabowski, a former MPC member who was known as a monetary policy hawk; he ended his six-year term in 2004 and now heads one of Poland's largest investment funds, Skarbiec.

-- Dariusz Filar, a former MPC member who ended his term this year; also seen as a hawk.

-- Jerzy Pruski, who was the top deputy governor at the central bank for four years before falling out with Skrzypek in 2008. Since then he has served as chief executive of Poland's largest bank, PKO BP, and now heads the Banking Guarantee Fund.

-- Finance Minister Jacek Rostowski, who has held his post since 2007; he is widely respected for his management of the economy during the global financial crisis, from which Poland escaped relatively lightly.

An even more radical step would be to turn to Leszek Balcerowicz, who was governor of the central bank from 2001 to 2007 and was known as a strong hawk. Balcerowicz was one of the architects of Poland's transition to a market economy two decades ago, and was praised abroad and sometimes criticized at home for his role. He pushed for pension and other reforms during a stint as finance minister in the late 1990s.

Some analysts speculate the choice could come from among the nine current MPC members, who took office this year.

WILL MONETARY POLICY CHANGE?

Skrzypek, who had a tie-breaking vote, was once seen as the staunchest dove on the 10-member interest rate-setting body, and was on the losing end of several decisions.

But in recent months, as a new, more government-friendly MPC was appointed, Skrzypek had begun to speak of bringing the key rate above its all-time low of 3.5 percent. The latest Reuters poll, in March, found economists expecting the rate to rise to 4.0 percent by the end of this year.

Economists expect Komorowski, a member of the ruling party and an early favorite to win the presidential election, to pick a new governor who might be moderately more hawkish than Skrzypek, but there will probably be little if any effect on the full MPC's rate decisions.

FOREIGN EXCHANGE POLICY

Skrzypek orchestrated the central bank's intervention last Friday to halt the strengthening of the zloty, its first such move since the zloty's free-float a decade ago.

There is speculation that Skrzypek's successor may be less inclined to intervene against the zloty, but no clear evidence for this; Prime Minister Donald Tusk's government backed the intervention, believing zloty strength could hurt the economic recovery.

POLAND'S ASPIRATIONS TO ADOPT THE EURO?

The central bank under Skrzypek was seen as one of the few remaining bastions of euroskepticism in Poland; like Kaczynski, who appointed him, Skrzypek had appeared reluctant to commit to a target for joining the single currency.

The center-right government of Prime Minister Donald Tusk aims to adopt the euro as soon as 2015, after dropping a more ambitious target during the global financial crisis. Komorowski is expected to choose a central bank chief who is more supportive of euro entry.

Ultimately it is the government which decides on euro entry, though it must coordinate its policy with the central bank, which would need to take steps to keep the zloty within a euro-anchored ban for at least two years before adoption.

FISCAL POLICY

A new, more government-friendly central bank governor would likely end the row between the bank's management, led by Skrzypek, and new MPC members close to the ruling coalition over the size of the bank's profit, and therefore how much of the profit will go toward meeting Poland's fiscal gap.

Under Polish law 95 percent of the profit is automatically transferred to the government, but there has been a bitter dispute over the size of required reserves; Skrzypek claimed the profit was only 4.2 billion zlotys, while other MPC members estimated it as roughly twice that amount.

Skrzypek's successor may also drop the central bank's opposition to extending Poland's $20.5 billion flexible credit line from the International Monetary Fund, which was opened last year and expires in May.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63A1MR20100412
Title: 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP
Post by: phasma on April 12, 2010, 03:38:56 pm
wow you have to read (and save this)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265482/Russia-engineered-air-crash-killed-President-Kaczynski-claims-Polish-MP.html

'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP
By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 9:19 PM on 12th April 2010
Comments (2) Add to My Stories The Russian government prevented the Polish president's plane from landing four times to divert him from a ceremony to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, according to an MP.

Artur Gorski said the Russians 'came up with some dubious reasons' that the aircraft couldn't land because they feared President Leck Kaczynski's presence would overshadow a similar event hosted by the Russian prime minister a few days before.
And their alleged plan ended in disaster when the Polish pilots made one final and disastrous attempt to land, killing Mr Kaczynski, his wife, and 94 others on board the plane.

 Memorial: The coffin of Polish president Lech Kaczynski is laid out at the Presidential Palace chapel in Warsaw, Poland
'One version of events says that the plane approached the airport four times, because every time the Russians refused it permission to land - they wanted to send the plane with the president to an airport in Moscow or Minsk,' Mr Gorski claimed in an interview published in the newspaper Nasz Dziennik.

'They came up with some dubious reasons: that there was fog over the airport, and that the navigation system didn't work as it was under renovation, and that airport had a short landing strip.'
Enlarge    Scene: This satellite image provided by DigitalGlobe shows the site, lower right, of a Tu-154 plane crash outside of Smolensk, Russia
 The pilot: Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk was flying the Polish presidential plane that crashed near Smolensk airport
The claims were made as shocking new details emerged of the final minutes of the flight before it crashed into a Russian forest on Saturday morning.
One of the Russian air traffic controllers involved in the tragedy said he believes the Polish air force pilot Arkadiusz Protasiuk, 36, was under severe pressure 'to land at any cost' so that the president would not miss the commemoration of the death of 22,000 Poles slaughtered by Stalin.

But he claims there were also serious language problems between the control tower at the military airport near Smolensk and the crew as the aircraft began its descent, and final approach, 'without our permission'.
The crew failed to report to the ground their altitude readings, said Colonel Anatoly Muraviev, a former pilot.
He believes the captain 'was desperate to land because of the high ranking passengers he was carrying. It killed both the crew and the passengers.'

 Mark of respect: NATO members' state flags fly at half-mast during an extraordinary meeting in Brussels to express its condolences to Poland
It was known that Mr Kaczynski once fired a flight crew when they refused to land at Tbilisi - and flew to another airport, he said. 

'Now try to imagine yourself in chief pilot's shoes. Fear, false shame, thinking that going to another airport is a disgrace - all this led to the fact that the crew died and killed all the others. I am a former pilot myself, I understand all this very well.'
The tapes of the conversations with the flight crew have not been released - so it is unclear if there is specific evidence of an order to the captain from either the president or the military top brass on board.

 Prime Minister Gordon Brown adds his name to the book of condolence, accompanied by his wife Sarah
Polish investigators said they will probe whether there were 'any suggestions made to the pilots' from other people aboard the plane.

Colonel Muraviev claimed there were a number of specific causes of the crash - 'weather conditions, maybe a mistake of the pilot who did not watch his altitude, and also the pilot's wish to land at any cost'.

He said the controllers and flight crew stumbled in Russian and broken English to understand each other in the final decisive seconds of the flight.   

Col Muraviev claimed that the fog 'was worsening' as the Polish president's plane came into land. One flight had landed earlier but another had been redirected to Moscow.   
 Poignant: A minute's silence is observed during the NATO meeting for the 96 killed in the plane crash
Of Kaczynski's flight, he said: 'At first it was descending OK, according to the rules, no problems. Soon our air traffic controllers began to worry. The head of our group three times ordered the pilots to stop this attempt to land, and try one more time, while also preparing to fly to another airport because of bad visibility. 

'The crew did not listen to him. So the traffic control warned them about bad visibility and the necessity to fly to another airport.
'The crew did not obey, so the controllers had only one thing to do - to carry on leading in the plane and see what happens. There was only one attempt to land and the plane crashed.'
Because it was a civilian flight, they did not have the authority to order them to another airport, he said.

He said 'mainly we spoke Russian to the crew, partly bad English. Understanding was hard.'

The Polish pilots 'began to land without our permission' and 'did not report to us with their altitude data', he added.
Another controller Pavel Plyusnin confirmed the understanding was '50-50' as the plane approached its tragic end. 

'It was hard to guess here if the pilot understood us properly,' said Col Muraviev. 'The language barrier did not help of course. I think it could have affected the result of this flight along with other circumstances.'
The Polish air force yesterday defended father-of-two Captain Protasiuk, saying he 'often flew with the president and other VIPs'.

A spokesman said it was 'ruled out' that the president could have forced the pilot to land at Smolensk.   

The body of Poland's first lady Maria Kaczynska was identified yesterday by her wedding ring - with her husband's name inscribed on the inside - and the colour of her finger nails. Many of the bodies are so badly mangled they will require DNA matching


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265482/Russia-engineered-air-crash-killed-President-Kaczynski-claims-Polish-MP.html#ixzz0kv8D5yR1
Title: Re: 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP
Post by: phasma on April 12, 2010, 03:39:57 pm
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/12/article-1265482-091B833B000005DC-207_468x555.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish
Post by: worcesteradam on April 12, 2010, 03:43:47 pm
it could be the elite celebrating their Katyn massacre
Title: Re: 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP
Post by: phasma on April 12, 2010, 03:47:42 pm
Could be - though they appear from this info to be trying to prevent the polish plane from landing.

who knows.

interesting now though that its not just us "conspiracy theorists" who think something is wrong wih this.
Title: Re: 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP
Post by: Valerius on April 12, 2010, 03:53:11 pm
"Who was Polish President Lech Kaczynski?"

By Christa Case Bryant, Staff writer / April 12, 2010

"Perhaps more detrimental to Poland, they raised the hackles of many in the European Union by challenging the EU’s pervasive secularism... made clear that their political and moral stances wouldn’t be swayed by the carrot of EU funding."


© The Christian Science Monitor. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0412/Who-was-Polish-President-Lech-Kaczynski

That kind of makes you go hmm.
Title: Re: 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 12, 2010, 03:56:28 pm
I STILL smell CIA thuggery
Title: Re: 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 04:18:40 pm
you cannot be serious, the pro-euro PM is doing exactly what the eurocrats want? playing the narrative to a T? you mean just like LBJ? how is that possible?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Kilika on April 12, 2010, 05:02:16 pm
I assume the Russians can still afford to run voice recordings of air traffic control? But seeing it is a military base, I suspect that would be "classified". No question radar would tell if that plane was diverted 4 times.

This guy claiming Russia was behind it is a standard expectation. Of course somebody is gonna yell "They did it!". Now that the outburst is over, get down to proving facts. Underhandedness can't hide from the truth, wherever it may be, but militaries can sure put a lid on evidence for "national security" reasons.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Monkeypox on April 12, 2010, 05:22:36 pm
Seriously, what government in their right mind would almost all their highest ranking officials get on the same airplane!  :o

Especially a crappy old Russian POS.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: trailhound on April 12, 2010, 07:38:26 pm
 
 Im having a hard time believing that in 2010 the lives of those important people were left to human error of a pilot.  We have planes that fly themselves and fog is not a problem for such planes because they dont use human eyes to navigate. Fog? Are you f**king kidding me?  Fog killed the polish leadership?  :-\
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Kilika on April 12, 2010, 07:40:41 pm
Well, to hear the Russians tell it, it was a bad pilot that was scared he'd get in trouble for not landing on time. ::)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 12, 2010, 07:59:51 pm
I would take the official (Russian) explanation with a big grain of salt.  I have never said that it was necessariy the Russians alone, but I don't think anyone could have puled this off in Putin's Russia without his knowledge and (at least tacit) approval.

Now, whether EU officials, Belarus, NATO officials, others were involved, I do not know.  It s certainly possible, plausible.

CIA involvement, at least directly, would make very little sense, however, given Kaczynski's very public pro-U.S. (anti-Russian) positions.  U.S. is one party that would seem to lack a motive in all this.

Looks like it could have been an EU (German?)/Russian joint plan.  Russia and Germany would have benefited from the planned pipeline Kaczynski opposed.

If this was a NATO op. one would have to explain how op.'s could have gotten around U.S. officials who would be very unlikely to have signed off on this thing given the U.S. is still large and in charge, for the most part, within NATO.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 08:46:24 pm
I would take the official (Russian) explanation with a big grain of salt.  I have never said that it was necessariy the Russians alone, but I don't think anyone could have puled this off in Putin's Russia without his knowledge and (at least tacit) approval.

Now, whether EU officials, Belarus, NATO officials, others were involved, I do not know.  It s certainly possible, plausible.

CIA involvement, at least directly, would make very little sense, however, given Kaczynski's very public pro-U.S. (anti-Russian) positions.  U.S. is one party that would seem to lack a motive in all this.

Looks like it could have been an EU (German?)/Russian joint plan.  Russia and Germany would have benefited from the planned pipeline Kaczynski opposed.

If this was a NATO op. one would have to explain how op.'s could have gotten around U.S. officials who would be very unlikely to have signed off on this thing given the U.S. is still large and in charge, for the most part, within NATO.


US is in charge of NATO?

Not a chance.

Britain-Netherlands-Germany-France/Italy...

but it is not countries, it is the elite manipulators who are mostly bankers/royals. NATO executed Aldo Moro. There is strong evidence that french assassin teams (NATO assets) were the ones that took the kill shot.

The president loved the US, was vocal against Russia, but actually threatened the survival of the EU (mainly through their central bank).

Like with Lincoln and Kennedy, it was the financial risks to the bankers/royals and their debt slavery system that enacts such activities.

Also like with JFK, many sub groups get their hands dirty. I suspect that Putin might have done some orders to deal with the ego of this guy, but just like during a war game, all of a sudden, the magic hand of the illuminati (via Ptech or 200 other methods) makes the whole thing go live. 

The biggest loser if the president stayed alive might have been belarus and they have motive. month or two earlier NATO cammanders were running drills in Belarus and Belarus for the last few weeks were arresting Poles onsight for trumped up charges (worried about possible spies?).

what is very telling is that the pro-euro PM came out and said Putin is to blame. That is very interesting seeing as he was the one who most benefited from the president out of the way (and head of the central bank). Of course by terminating all military leaders, no chance they can force the PM to obey the past president'sdirections for the welfare of the polish people.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 12, 2010, 09:06:13 pm
ACO Allied Commander - Europe
Admiral James G. Stavrides (USN)

In charge of NATO military operations (not training/transformation) in Europe.

This is one American who would have been in the loop, ostensibly.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 09:30:56 pm
ACO Allied Commander - Europe
Admiral James G. Stavrides (USN)

In charge of NATO military operations (not training/transformation) in Europe.

This is one American who would have been in the loop, ostensibly.

yeah and Obama is the commander in chief.

The allied commander takes orders from the "owners" of NATO. And the owners decide what to say and when to say it. BTW, here is just a little history of another allied commander whose appearance in front of the camera and behind the scenes are very different. I never heard of that guy and the media never mentioned him. i am not sure what he actually does, but this guy'shistory is all too apparent:



http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=16663

Like Bill Clinton, Wesley was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford. While Clinton spent his time in sexual dalliances (and one alleged rape) and leading anti-American demonstrations in Europe and visiting the Kremlin in the dead of winter by special invitation, Clark was more studious. In August 1968 he emerged with a Master’s Degree in philosophy, politics and economics. 

The Rhodes Scholarships had been set up by British imperialist Cecil Rhodes to educate the brightest American youngsters in England, a once-secret codicil in his will made clear, so that they would go home and help bring America back under the political sway of the British Empire.

Wesley Clark’s career in the U.S. military was solid but not stellar. It included a variety of backwater assignments as well as one high point, White House Fellow 1975-76.

But an unexpected bolt from the blue suddenly ignited Clark’s life, turning mediocrity into a skyrocket ride that could yet land him in the Oval Office.  He was named Commander of the 1st Cavalry Division, III Corps, at sweltering Fort Hood southwest of Waco, Texas.

On a late winter day in 1993, Texas Governor Ann Richards suddenly called the base, later meeting with Clark’s Number Two to discuss an urgent matter.  Crazies at a Waco compound had killed Federal agents.  If newly-sworn-in President Bill Clinton signed a waiver setting aside the Posse Comitatus Act, which generally prohibits the military from using its arms against American citizens within our borders, could Fort Hood supply tanks and other equipment?

Clinton did. Wesley Clark’s command at Fort Hood “lent” 17 pieces of armor and 15 active service personnel under his command to the Waco Branch Davidian operation. It is absolute fact that the military equipment used by the government at Waco came from Fort Hood and Clark’s command. 

The only issue debated by experts is whether Clark was at Waco in person to help direct the assault against the church compound in a scene remarkably similar to the incineration of villagers in a church by the British in Mel Gibson’s movie “The Patriot.”

What happened at Waco was the death, mostly by fire, of at least 82 men, women and children, including two babies who died after being “fire aborted” from the dying bodies of their pregnant mothers.

Planning for this final assault involved a meeting between Clinton Attorney General Janet Reno and two military officers who developed the tactical plan used but who have never been identified. 

Some evidence and analysis suggests that Wesley Clark was one of these two who devised what happened at Waco. 

As Leftist journalists Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair noted, the ruthless tactics and attitude on display at Waco are strikingly similar to those Clark has used on other battlefields in his career.

Odd, isn’t it, that the Leftist establishment press has told you nothing about the connection between General Wesley Clark and Waco – or what happened to him immediately after the service he rendered the Clintons at Waco?

Immediately after Waco, Wesley Clark’s flat career began an incredible meteoric rise.

In April 1994 he was promoted to Director of Strategic Plans and Policy for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. 

In June 1996 Clark was named Commander in Chief of the U.S. Southern Command in Panama and put in charge of most U.S. forces in all of Latin America and the Caribbean. 

In June 1997 President Clinton appointed him Commander in Chief of the United States European Command and SACEUR, Supreme Allied Commander, Europe, in command of the forces of NATO, a position Clark would hold until May 2000.

As SACEUR General Wesley Clark would collect a truckload of honors. He would also prosecute Clinton’s war siding with Muslim Kosovars against Serbian Christians in the Balkans.

This war was largely fought from high altitude aircraft to minimize American casualties, an approach that increased civilian casualties on the ground.  Clark soon acquired a reputation as someone who lied about such casualties, lies reported even by Time Magazine.

Democrats who support Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich for their anti-war stance should know that when Russians landed and took over one provincial airport in the region, General Clark commanded British forces to attack the Russians.  British General Sir Mike Jackson reportedly refused, saying: “I’m not going to start the Third World War for you!”

Would peacenik Democrats really want General Wesley Clark, with a reputation for brutal and erratic behavior, one of those behind the events at Waco, to be only a heartbeat away from having his finger on the nuclear button?  If he were Vice President, how safe would a liberal President be from attacks by fanatic former combat veterans?  Can you take the risk of electing General Clark as your Vice President?

And then there is the underside of the Clark family with its faint whiff of disreputability. His son Wesley Clark, Jr., exaggerated his Hollywood credentials (he apparently worked briefly with Danny DeVito’s production company) to get a lucrative contract from the Bosnian government to make an epic film about the siege of Sarajevo.

Much money was funneled into Wesley, Jr.’s, bank account for that film, but little of quality was produced. The situation apparently never quite crossed the line into clear illegality – like former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean’s son admitting that he drove the getaway car in a burglary. But the Bosnian government at the very least got badly shortchanged by Clark’s misrepresentation.  Like father, like son?

“Known by those who’ve served with him as the ‘Ultimate Perfumed Prince,’” writes veteran military combat soldier and journalist Col. David Hackworth about Gen. Wesley Clark, “he’s far more comfortable in a drawing room discussing political theories than hunkering down in the trenches where bullets fly and soldiers die.”

Clark’s nickname among soldiers under his command reportedly was “the Supreme Being.”  And that was when Clark was only a general or even lower-ranking officer.  What would he expect us to call him if he became Commander-in-Chief?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 09:33:24 pm
This is how things go down and the true chain of command...

http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/ST/
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 12, 2010, 09:37:29 pm
Well, if that was the case, the U.S./CIA must have known and stood there with their thumb up their posteriors, while one of their staunchest suppporters in Eastern Europe was killed.  This would at least be very mysterious.

As for Belarus, isn't it more or less a puppet state of Russia, don't they have some sort of unification agreement right now, despite Belarus's outward "independence"?  Would Belarus really have been acting independent of Russia/Putin?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 12, 2010, 10:30:59 pm
Well, if that was the case, the U.S./CIA must have known and stood there with their thumb up their posteriors, while one of their staunchest suppporters in Eastern Europe was killed.  This would at least be very mysterious.

As for Belarus, isn't it more or less a puppet state of Russia, don't they have some sort of unification agreement right now, despite Belarus's outward "independence"?  Would Belarus really have been acting independent of Russia/Putin?

well the pro US CIA took out JFK on behalf of the bankers.

the secret team explains that the actions are not in the interest of the country. they are in the interest of elite chessplayers who are basically drug runners and slave traders). we could have had china as an ally, but rockefeller supported mao to manufacture a threat that previouslly did not exist.

this is the nature of controlling the masses, creating threats. the president may have been our ally, but he was freeing his people, that made him a threat to the elite bankers/owners of the US like rockefeller
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: worcesteradam on April 13, 2010, 06:05:42 am
comment on Damian Thompsons blog

"What feeds this situation is that Polish National TV has already reported journalists’ cameras have been confiscated by the Russian military. One reporter who was interviewed said that there was no fog when the plane attempted to land."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 13, 2010, 06:11:31 am
That's what I was wondering about.  How real was the fog?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: worcesteradam on April 13, 2010, 06:21:52 am
if they lied about the fog then it was a definate elite inside job

lying like that is their classic m.o.
It would then have all the hallmarks of a nwo hit
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: trailhound on April 13, 2010, 06:32:11 am
if they lied about the fog then it was a definate elite inside job

lying like that is their classic m.o.
It would then have all the hallmarks of a nwo hit

trailhound wrote
Quote
Fog? Are you f**king kidding me?  Fog killed the polish leadership?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Kilika on April 13, 2010, 06:37:13 am
Fog didn't kill anyone. It was that sudden stop that did it.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 13, 2010, 07:42:53 am
That's what I was wondering about.  How real was the fog?

A Polish Assassination in Theory

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2010/04/polish-assassination-in-theory.html

There is information concerning the deaths of the Polish leadership in Russia which are setting off red alerts for this blog, from the Russian leadership all over this, Russian military pointing to "pilot error" and the chiming of the press to blame this all on the Polish pilots when the TU-154 is a modern aircraft with all the alarm bells and whistles to alert a pilot that all is not well, so one does not use your jet as a tree trimmer.

In theory, this can be just as easily termed an assassination of the Polish leadership by the evidence which is reported.

As reported exclusively here, the TU-154 has a host of back up systems and autopilots to deal with pilot error. One must understand that altimeters, speed and GPS all have warning chirps and lights in the event an airliner is not where it is supposed to be.
For the Polish jet to be trimming trees, means it was off course, which it can not be due to GPS. It would have to be lower than 100 feet which should send off warning signals, so it could not be lower than it should have been, yet it was, and no pilot is going to ignore those signals.

Yet we are told from Russian air controllers, that the Polish pilots "ignored" Russian directions.

Now why would experienced Polish pilots do this? They apparently were believing their instruments over what the Russian flight controllers were directing them.

That would mean the instrumentation was off. Off in GPS is one thing, but when your instrumentation is having two separate malfunctions in the height the aircraft is flying, then that is not coincidence, but a deliberate act as two systems on a Presidential plane just service months ago, are not both going to go out, when there are 3 autopilots operating on a TU-154 in an over redundant system.

Is it possible to rip GPS satellites? If one recalls the information on this blog, in last Christmas, there were several reports of people being lost using GPS, that indicates it is quite possible to rig satellites or influence their data in shifting the grid.
That is a fact, and if it happens in Washington, America, then it can happen in Smolensk, Russia with an airliner if people with assets desire such an outcome. A lost car is a lost plane, in that all satellites are jigged to not be precise, so enemies of the United States can not fly missiles through our windows.
Would it be possible with enough radar amplification to jam and refeed an GPS signal if desired. Logic dictates the answer as an affirmative, especially if Russian engineers were servicing this aircraft months ago.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/S8DIyGL9rPI/AAAAAAAAFKg/MAhQhnGpEyk/s400/smolensk.jpg)

The condition of "fog" should have no bearing on this, but yet in researching screen grabs for Smolensk, there should not have been fog in the least in that area. Conditions were not 100% humidity, but as the information proves only 60%.
Fog requires in normal circumstances 100% humidity to form. In the extended forecast in Russian no mass fog banks are noted. There was not snow on the ground for thermal inversions, no stagnant air masses, and the most damning evidence of all, the barometric readings were 31 inches which is a high reading.

I will put this quote on for people to ponder about fog being created:

Another common type of formation is associated with sea fog (also known as haar or fret). This is due to the peculiar effect of salt. Clouds of all types require minute hygroscopic particles upon which water vapor can condense. Over the ocean surface, the most common particles are salt from salt spray produced by breaking waves. Except in areas of storminess, the most common areas of breaking waves are located near coastlines, hence the greatest densities of airborne salt particles are there. Condensation on salt particles has been observed to occur at humidities as low as 70%, thus fog can occur even in relatively dry air in suitable locations such as the California coast.

So just as cloud seeding is known to eliminate fog, it is apparent that if one misted an area with low humidity with salts, that a dense fog could be induced.

While fog would not interfere with a Polish aircrew utilizing instrument flying, fog would make them blind to visual identification if the Russian controllers were telling them one thing, and their instruments were reporting another, that they were higher in altitude and at another GPS location.

In essence, it is possible to produced fog. It is possible to make GPS devices think they are at another location, adding the above evidence, when the TU-154 is a crash and pilot proof airliner that only comes down when shot down or runs out of fuel in it's history, it is not logical that the claim of pilot error is feasible on such a Russian aircraft of note.

Polish pilots are not going to ignore warning chirps on altimeters and GPS in being familiar with this aircraft. If the devices were giving bogus readings and not alerting the pilots, the pilots would ignore the Russian controllers and literally fly the plain into the trees thinking all was safe.

The Russians were far too immediate in pointing the fingers at the Poles. Furthermore it was reported this interesting quote:

The crash occurred three days after Putin and Tusk attended a joint memorial for the Katyn victims. The event was seen as a huge symbolic advance in Russia's often thorny relations with Poland.

Tusk is the Polish opposition to the current dead President Kaczynski, along with the entire Polish leadership in military, political and security circles.
How convenient like the current Putin puppet in the Ukraine that all were making nice just before their respective governments turned over from pro American political leadership.

There was no fog and is forecast no fog in Smolensk for the following week after this event of immediate dense fog, but yet the conditions with an east wind showed clear skies, without the heat to burn off fog during the day.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/S8DIx8qAUmI/AAAAAAAAFKY/hcJLTYNfeVk/s400/smolensk+weather.jpg)

All of this appears to convenient in getting rid of a Polish government which Mr. Obama cast to the wind and the Russians were pointing nuclear missiles at.

I do not believe in coincidences and when one has heaps of coincidences piling up that puts a Polish assassination theory into a Polish assassination reality.

Could this be done by the Russian government? Yes.

Does this belong in the realm of the FBI, Polish security, French intelligence and British MI5? Most definitely.

Let this be investigated and not trusted to Russian mechanics servicing Polish Presidential planes and then Putin pointing fingers at Poles as he makes Obama buddies with the Polish opposition days before this happens.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 07:46:58 am
Fog didn't kill anyone. It was that sudden stop that did it.

we do not even know that. the guy was there within minutes. no bodies. all the details are sketchy.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 13, 2010, 07:48:51 am
Passenger list (google translation)

Lista osób na pok?adzie Tupolewa- Onet.pl - Wiadomo?ci -10.04.2010

OFFICIAL DELEGATION

1st Mr Ryszard Kaczorowski, former president of Poland in Exile

2nd Mr. Krzysztof Putra Sejm Marshal

3rd Mr. Jerzy Szmajdzinski Sejm Marshal

4th Krystyna Bochenek Deputy Senate

5th BAHR Jerzy Ambassador of the Russian Federation

6th Mr. Wladyslaw STASIAK Chief Presidential Chancellery

7th Mr. Aleksander Szczyglo Head of National Security

8th Mr. Paul WYPYCH Secretary of State in the President's Chancellery

9th Mariusz Handzlik Undersecretary of State in the President's Chancellery

10th Mr. Andrzej Kremer, Undersecretary of State for Foreign Affairs

11th Mr. Stanisław Komorowski, Undersecretary of State in the Defence

12th Mr. Tomasz Merta Undersecretary of State in the Ministry of Culture

13th Gen. Francis Gągor Chief of General Staff of Polish Army

14th Mr Andrew CARRIER Secretary ROPWiM

15th Mr. Maciej Plazynski President of the Association "Polish Community"

16th Mariusz KAZANA MFA Diplomatic Protocol Director

PARLIAMENT REPRESENTATIVES RP

1st Mr. Leszek Deptuła deputy to the Sejm

2nd Mr. Gregory Dolniak deputy to the Sejm

3rd Ms. Grazyna Gęsicka deputy to the Sejm

4th Mr. Przemyslaw Gosiewski deputy to the Sejm

5th Lord Sebastian KARPINIUK deputy to the Sejm

6th Ms. Izabela Jaruga - Nowacka Deputy to the Sejm

7th Mr. Zbigniew Wassermann deputy to the Sejm

8th Ms. Alexander Natallia - WORLD Member of the Sejm

10th Mr. Arkadiusz Rybicki deputy to the Sejm

11th Jolanta Szymanek - Deresz Member of the Sejm

12th Wiesław WATER deputy to the Sejm

13th Mr. Edward Wojtas deputy to the Sejm

14th Janina FETLIŃSKA Senator RP

15th Mr. Stanislaw ZAJAC Senator RP

ACCOMPANYING PERSONS

1st Mr. Janusz Kochanowski Ombudsman

2nd Mr Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the Polish National Bank

3rd Janusz Kurtyka President of the Institute of National Remembrance

4th Janusz Krupski Director of the Office for War Veterans and Repressed Persons

REPRESENTATIVES Churches and Religious Affairs

1st Fr. Bp. Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz Ploski Ordinary of the Polish Army

2nd Archbishop Brig. Miron Chodakowski Orthodox Ordinary Polish Army

3rd Fr. Col. Adam Pilch Field Protestant Chaplaincy

4th Fr. Lt. Col. John OSIŃSKI Ordinariate of the Polish Army

Katyn Families REPRESENTATIVES AND OTHER SOCIETIES

1st Mr. Edward Duchnowski Secretary General of Association of Siberian Deportees

2nd Fr. Monsignor Bronislaw Gostomski

3rd Fr. Association President Joseph Joniec Parafiada

4th Fr. Zdzislaw KING Chaplain Warsaw Katyn Families 1987-2007

5th Fr. Chaplain Andrew Kwasnik Federation of Katyn Families

6th Pan Tadeusz LUTOBORSKI

7th Bozena Łojek President of the Polish Foundation for Katyn

8th Mr. Stefan Melaka Katyn Committee Chairman

9th Mr. Stanisław Mikke Vice ROPWiM

10th Mrs. Bronislaw Orawiec - Löffler

11th Ms. Catherine Piskorska

12th Mr Andrew SARIUSZ - SKĄPSKI President of the Federation of Katyn Families

13th Mr Wojciech SEWERYN

14th Mr. Leszek Solski

15th Ms. Teresa Walewska - PRZYJAŁKOWSKA Foundation Golgotha of the East "

16th Ms. Gabriela Zych

17th Ewa Bąkowska granddaughter Brig. Mieczyslaw Smorawinski

18th Mrs. Maria Borowska

19th Mr. Bartosz BOROWSKI

20th Dariusz MALINOWSKI

REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ARMED FORCES RP

1st Gen. Bronislaw KWIATKOWSKI Operational Commander of Polish Armed Forces

2nd Gen. pil. Andrew Błasik Polish Air Force Commander

3rd Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz BUK Commander of Land Forces of Poland

4th Maj.-Gen. Vladimir POTASIŃSKI Polish Special Forces Commander

5th Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta Commander Navy

6th Brig. Kazimierz GILARSKI Commander Training Centre

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/411701-polish-government-tu154m-crash-4.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: agentbluescreen on April 13, 2010, 07:59:02 am
A Polish Assassination in Theory

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2010/04/polish-assassination-in-theory.html

There is information concerning the deaths of the Polish leadership in Russia which are setting off red alerts for this blog, from the Russian leadership all over this, Russian military pointing to "pilot error" and the chiming of the press to blame this all on the Polish pilots when the TU-154 is a modern aircraft with all the alarm bells and whistles to alert a pilot that all is not well, so one does not use your jet as a tree trimmer.

As reported exclusively here, the TU-154 has a host of back up systems and autopilots to deal with pilot error. One must understand that altimeters, speed and GPS all have warning chirps and lights in the event an airliner is not where it is supposed to be.
For the Polish jet to be trimming trees, means it was off course, which it can not be due to GPS. It would have to be lower than 100 feet which should send off warning signals, so it could not be lower than it should have been, yet it was, and no pilot is going to ignore those signals.


Yet we are told from Russian air controllers, that the Polish pilots "ignored" Russian directions.

Now why would experienced Polish pilots do this? They apparently were believing their instruments over what the Russian flight controllers were directing them.

That would mean the instrumentation was off. Off in GPS is one thing, but when your instrumentation is having two separate malfunctions in the height the aircraft is flying, then that is not coincidence, but a deliberate act as two systems on a Presidential plane just service months ago, are not both going to go out, when there are 3 autopilots operating on a TU-154 in an over redundant system.


Would it be possible with enough radar amplification to jam and refeed an GPS signal if desired. Logic dictates the answer as an affirmative, especially if Russian engineers were servicing this aircraft months ago.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/S8DIyGL9rPI/AAAAAAAAFKg/MAhQhnGpEyk/s400/smolensk.jpg)

The condition of "fog" should have no bearing on this, but yet in researching screen grabs for Smolensk, there should not have been fog in the least in that area. Conditions were not 100% humidity, but as the information proves only 60%.
Fog requires in normal circumstances 100% humidity to form. In the extended forecast in Russian no mass fog banks are noted. There was not snow on the ground for thermal inversions, no stagnant air masses, and the most damning evidence of all, the barometric readings were 31 inches which is a high reading.

I will put this quote on for people to ponder about fog being created:

Another common type of formation is associated with sea fog (also known as haar or fret). This is due to the peculiar effect of salt. Clouds of all types require minute hygroscopic particles upon which water vapor can condense. Over the ocean surface, the most common particles are salt from salt spray produced by breaking waves. Except in areas of storminess, the most common areas of breaking waves are located near coastlines, hence the greatest densities of airborne salt particles are there. Condensation on salt particles has been observed to occur at humidities as low as 70%, thus fog can occur even in relatively dry air in suitable locations such as the California coast.

So just as cloud seeding is known to eliminate fog, it is apparent that if one misted an area with low humidity with salts, that a dense fog could be induced.

While fog would not interfere with a Polish aircrew utilizing instrument flying, fog would make them blind to visual identification if the Russian controllers were telling them one thing, and their instruments were reporting another, that they were higher in altitude and at another GPS location.

In essence, it is possible to produced fog. It is possible to make GPS devices think they are at another location, adding the above evidence, when the TU-154 is a crash and pilot proof airliner that only comes down when shot down or runs out of fuel in it's history, it is not logical that the claim of pilot error is feasible on such a Russian aircraft of note.

Polish pilots are not going to ignore warning chirps on altimeters and GPS in being familiar with this aircraft. If the devices were giving bogus readings and not alerting the pilots, the pilots would ignore the Russian controllers and literally fly the plain into the trees thinking all was safe.




Well Hanni Hanjour is reputed to have flown a 757 at grass-blade high "altitude" (supposedly under 3 inches) across the Pentagon lawn for the the length of a football field, so in our post-911 world, altitude should not have been a problem....

This HUGE altitude of 100' should be lotsa room...

/sarcasm
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: jerryweaver on April 13, 2010, 08:01:27 am
Will this action wake more people up to the planetary danger we all face? I think so. The IMF is losing credibility with each staged murder it seems. More people will choose to step into the light and rediscover their courage IMHO. Any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: agentbluescreen on April 13, 2010, 08:12:39 am
When a jet airliner gets below a hundred feet with no gear down or thrust reversers deployed, a light comes on over a keyboard on the dash that says "Please Enter The Number of Body Bags"
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 08:18:50 am
When a jet airliner gets below a hundred feet with no gear down or thrust reversers deployed, a light comes on over a keyboard on the dash that says "Please Enter The Number of Body Bags"

LOL...that's almost true. Some skilled pilots can land planes without the landing gear, depending on what terrain you have below.

Concrete would be a b**ch, though.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 08:19:33 am
Will this action wake more people up to the planetary danger we all face? I think so. The IMF is losing credibility with each staged murder it seems. More people will choose to step into the light and rediscover their courage IMHO. Any thoughts on that?

They're probably gonna false-flag nuke us into submission.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 08:22:31 am
Passenger list (google translation)

Lista osób na pok?adzie Tupolewa- Onet.pl - Wiadomo?ci -10.04.2010

OFFICIAL DELEGATION

1st Mr Ryszard Kaczorowski, former president of Poland in Exile

2nd Mr. Krzysztof Putra Sejm Marshal

3rd Mr. Jerzy Szmajdzinski Sejm Marshal

4th Krystyna Bochenek Deputy Senate

5th BAHR Jerzy Ambassador of the Russian Federation

6th Mr. Wladyslaw STASIAK Chief Presidential Chancellery

7th Mr. Aleksander Szczyglo Head of National Security

8th Mr. Paul WYPYCH Secretary of State in the President's Chancellery

9th Mariusz Handzlik Undersecretary of State in the President's Chancellery

10th Mr. Andrzej Kremer, Undersecretary of State for Foreign Affairs

11th Mr. Stanisław Komorowski, Undersecretary of State in the Defence

12th Mr. Tomasz Merta Undersecretary of State in the Ministry of Culture

13th Gen. Francis Gągor Chief of General Staff of Polish Army

14th Mr Andrew CARRIER Secretary ROPWiM

15th Mr. Maciej Plazynski President of the Association "Polish Community"

16th Mariusz KAZANA MFA Diplomatic Protocol Director

PARLIAMENT REPRESENTATIVES RP

1st Mr. Leszek Deptuła deputy to the Sejm

2nd Mr. Gregory Dolniak deputy to the Sejm

3rd Ms. Grazyna Gęsicka deputy to the Sejm

4th Mr. Przemyslaw Gosiewski deputy to the Sejm

5th Lord Sebastian KARPINIUK deputy to the Sejm

6th Ms. Izabela Jaruga - Nowacka Deputy to the Sejm

7th Mr. Zbigniew Wassermann deputy to the Sejm

8th Ms. Alexander Natallia - WORLD Member of the Sejm

10th Mr. Arkadiusz Rybicki deputy to the Sejm

11th Jolanta Szymanek - Deresz Member of the Sejm

12th Wiesław WATER deputy to the Sejm

13th Mr. Edward Wojtas deputy to the Sejm

14th Janina FETLIŃSKA Senator RP

15th Mr. Stanislaw ZAJAC Senator RP

ACCOMPANYING PERSONS

1st Mr. Janusz Kochanowski Ombudsman

2nd Mr Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the Polish National Bank

3rd Janusz Kurtyka President of the Institute of National Remembrance

4th Janusz Krupski Director of the Office for War Veterans and Repressed Persons

REPRESENTATIVES Churches and Religious Affairs

1st Fr. Bp. Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz Ploski Ordinary of the Polish Army

2nd Archbishop Brig. Miron Chodakowski Orthodox Ordinary Polish Army

3rd Fr. Col. Adam Pilch Field Protestant Chaplaincy

4th Fr. Lt. Col. John OSIŃSKI Ordinariate of the Polish Army

Katyn Families REPRESENTATIVES AND OTHER SOCIETIES

1st Mr. Edward Duchnowski Secretary General of Association of Siberian Deportees

2nd Fr. Monsignor Bronislaw Gostomski

3rd Fr. Association President Joseph Joniec Parafiada

4th Fr. Zdzislaw KING Chaplain Warsaw Katyn Families 1987-2007

5th Fr. Chaplain Andrew Kwasnik Federation of Katyn Families

6th Pan Tadeusz LUTOBORSKI

7th Bozena Łojek President of the Polish Foundation for Katyn

8th Mr. Stefan Melaka Katyn Committee Chairman

9th Mr. Stanisław Mikke Vice ROPWiM

10th Mrs. Bronislaw Orawiec - Löffler

11th Ms. Catherine Piskorska

12th Mr Andrew SARIUSZ - SKĄPSKI President of the Federation of Katyn Families

13th Mr Wojciech SEWERYN

14th Mr. Leszek Solski

15th Ms. Teresa Walewska - PRZYJAŁKOWSKA Foundation Golgotha of the East "

16th Ms. Gabriela Zych

17th Ewa Bąkowska granddaughter Brig. Mieczyslaw Smorawinski

18th Mrs. Maria Borowska

19th Mr. Bartosz BOROWSKI

20th Dariusz MALINOWSKI

REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ARMED FORCES RP

1st Gen. Bronislaw KWIATKOWSKI Operational Commander of Polish Armed Forces

2nd Gen. pil. Andrew Błasik Polish Air Force Commander

3rd Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz BUK Commander of Land Forces of Poland

4th Maj.-Gen. Vladimir POTASIŃSKI Polish Special Forces Commander

5th Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta Commander Navy

6th Brig. Kazimierz GILARSKI Commander Training Centre

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/411701-polish-government-tu154m-crash-4.html

If this happened in the US, they would be storming the White House right now.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 08:23:15 am
A Polish Assassination in Theory

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2010/04/polish-assassination-in-theory.html

There is information concerning the deaths of the Polish leadership in Russia which are setting off red alerts for this blog, from the Russian leadership all over this, Russian military pointing to "pilot error" and the chiming of the press to blame this all on the Polish pilots when the TU-154 is a modern aircraft with all the alarm bells and whistles to alert a pilot that all is not well, so one does not use your jet as a tree trimmer.

In theory, this can be just as easily termed an assassination of the Polish leadership by the evidence which is reported.

As reported exclusively here, the TU-154 has a host of back up systems and autopilots to deal with pilot error. One must understand that altimeters, speed and GPS all have warning chirps and lights in the event an airliner is not where it is supposed to be.
For the Polish jet to be trimming trees, means it was off course, which it can not be due to GPS. It would have to be lower than 100 feet which should send off warning signals, so it could not be lower than it should have been, yet it was, and no pilot is going to ignore those signals.

Yet we are told from Russian air controllers, that the Polish pilots "ignored" Russian directions.

Now why would experienced Polish pilots do this? They apparently were believing their instruments over what the Russian flight controllers were directing them.

That would mean the instrumentation was off. Off in GPS is one thing, but when your instrumentation is having two separate malfunctions in the height the aircraft is flying, then that is not coincidence, but a deliberate act as two systems on a Presidential plane just service months ago, are not both going to go out, when there are 3 autopilots operating on a TU-154 in an over redundant system.

Is it possible to rip GPS satellites? If one recalls the information on this blog, in last Christmas, there were several reports of people being lost using GPS, that indicates it is quite possible to rig satellites or influence their data in shifting the grid.
That is a fact, and if it happens in Washington, America, then it can happen in Smolensk, Russia with an airliner if people with assets desire such an outcome. A lost car is a lost plane, in that all satellites are jigged to not be precise, so enemies of the United States can not fly missiles through our windows.
Would it be possible with enough radar amplification to jam and refeed an GPS signal if desired. Logic dictates the answer as an affirmative, especially if Russian engineers were servicing this aircraft months ago.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/S8DIyGL9rPI/AAAAAAAAFKg/MAhQhnGpEyk/s400/smolensk.jpg)

The condition of "fog" should have no bearing on this, but yet in researching screen grabs for Smolensk, there should not have been fog in the least in that area. Conditions were not 100% humidity, but as the information proves only 60%.
Fog requires in normal circumstances 100% humidity to form. In the extended forecast in Russian no mass fog banks are noted. There was not snow on the ground for thermal inversions, no stagnant air masses, and the most damning evidence of all, the barometric readings were 31 inches which is a high reading.

I will put this quote on for people to ponder about fog being created:

Another common type of formation is associated with sea fog (also known as haar or fret). This is due to the peculiar effect of salt. Clouds of all types require minute hygroscopic particles upon which water vapor can condense. Over the ocean surface, the most common particles are salt from salt spray produced by breaking waves. Except in areas of storminess, the most common areas of breaking waves are located near coastlines, hence the greatest densities of airborne salt particles are there. Condensation on salt particles has been observed to occur at humidities as low as 70%, thus fog can occur even in relatively dry air in suitable locations such as the California coast.

So just as cloud seeding is known to eliminate fog, it is apparent that if one misted an area with low humidity with salts, that a dense fog could be induced.

While fog would not interfere with a Polish aircrew utilizing instrument flying, fog would make them blind to visual identification if the Russian controllers were telling them one thing, and their instruments were reporting another, that they were higher in altitude and at another GPS location.

In essence, it is possible to produced fog. It is possible to make GPS devices think they are at another location, adding the above evidence, when the TU-154 is a crash and pilot proof airliner that only comes down when shot down or runs out of fuel in it's history, it is not logical that the claim of pilot error is feasible on such a Russian aircraft of note.

Polish pilots are not going to ignore warning chirps on altimeters and GPS in being familiar with this aircraft. If the devices were giving bogus readings and not alerting the pilots, the pilots would ignore the Russian controllers and literally fly the plain into the trees thinking all was safe.

The Russians were far too immediate in pointing the fingers at the Poles. Furthermore it was reported this interesting quote:

The crash occurred three days after Putin and Tusk attended a joint memorial for the Katyn victims. The event was seen as a huge symbolic advance in Russia's often thorny relations with Poland.

Tusk is the Polish opposition to the current dead President Kaczynski, along with the entire Polish leadership in military, political and security circles.
How convenient like the current Putin puppet in the Ukraine that all were making nice just before their respective governments turned over from pro American political leadership.

There was no fog and is forecast no fog in Smolensk for the following week after this event of immediate dense fog, but yet the conditions with an east wind showed clear skies, without the heat to burn off fog during the day.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/S8DIx8qAUmI/AAAAAAAAFKY/hcJLTYNfeVk/s400/smolensk+weather.jpg)

All of this appears to convenient in getting rid of a Polish government which Mr. Obama cast to the wind and the Russians were pointing nuclear missiles at.

I do not believe in coincidences and when one has heaps of coincidences piling up that puts a Polish assassination theory into a Polish assassination reality.

Could this be done by the Russian government? Yes.

Does this belong in the realm of the FBI, Polish security, French intelligence and British MI5? Most definitely.

Let this be investigated and not trusted to Russian mechanics servicing Polish Presidential planes and then Putin pointing fingers at Poles as he makes Obama buddies with the Polish opposition days before this happens.

This would look really good on the front page of Infowars.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 12:01:50 pm
This is how things go down and the true chain of command...

http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/ST/

More good stuff by Col. L. Fletcher Prouty here:
http://www.prouty.org/
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 02:09:02 pm
New Room:

The 2010 Coup d'etat in Poland - Regime Change by Decapitation
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?board=458.0
Polish elite were assassinated in a downed plane for not accepting the debt slavery of the € Euro. The Bilderberg "Project Mockingbird" media narrative says "fog" was to blame even though humidity was 60%, there was no forecast of fog, no eyewitness saw fog, and the video minutes after the assassination clearly shows no fog. The total and sudden extermination of dozens of high ranking officials included the president and wife, the head of the central bank (who was 100% opposed to the Euro), and multiple military commanders. Goldman Sachs "coincidently" landed in Warsaw two weeks before this coup. Just days before the attack, the now assassinated head of the central bank, via monetary policy, threatened the tough "mobster deals" that the EU and IMF were were imposing on Greece. It is important to also note that Goldman Sachs was very instrumental in destroying that EU member nation's economy. Poland is the only country out of the 27 member states of the EU to not suffer a recession this millennium. They are also the only country so opposed to the € Euro currency. The only head of state not assassinated is the Prime Minister of Poland who "coincidently" loves the € Euro and cannot wait to integrate his own country's powerful economy with the EU's failing economy. Adding fuel to the lack of fire 5 minutes after the incident, the PM declared that the fault concerning the extermination of these heads of state lies with Putin. Whether or not Putin has some blood on his hands concerning this event remains to be seen, but it is very odd that the PM would declare this openly prior to a thorough investigation and just hours after they signed a 50 year gas pipeline deal. Concerning the former President's enemies...Nicholas Sarkozy even went so far as to suggest that the EU kick out Poland until they accept the debt slavery creating currency and the head of the EU also considered Poland's central bank to be a "pebble in their shoe" concerning his agenda with implementing a continent-wide New World Order/IMF run monetary system. If cui bono and motive were ever important concerning a coup d'etat, they sure are now. Just like they were when NATO special operations assassinated Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Kilika on April 13, 2010, 02:34:40 pm
Lord have mercy, that list is most of the top officials of Polands government. How is it that all those important people are all on one plane? Who's idea was that? That has to be answered, because it was an insanely careless decision. There was apparently even a Russian ambassador onboard as well.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: gabba2k7 on April 13, 2010, 02:42:14 pm
no fog only conspiracy? :D
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 04:36:21 pm
New Room:

The 2010 Coup d'etat in Poland - Regime Change by Decapitation
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?board=458.0
Polish elite were assassinated in a downed plane for not accepting the debt slavery of the € Euro. The Bilderberg "Project Mockingbird" media narrative says "fog" was to blame even though humidity was 60%, there was no forecast of fog, no eyewitness saw fog, and the video minutes after the assassination clearly shows no fog. The total and sudden extermination of dozens of high ranking officials included the president and wife, the head of the central bank (who was 100% opposed to the Euro), and multiple military commanders. Goldman Sachs "coincidently" landed in Warsaw two weeks before this coup. Just days before the attack, the now assassinated head of the central bank, via monetary policy, threatened the tough "mobster deals" that the EU and IMF were were imposing on Greece. It is important to also note that Goldman Sachs was very instrumental in destroying that EU member nation's economy. Poland is the only country out of the 27 member states of the EU to not suffer a recession this millennium. They are also the only country so opposed to the € Euro currency. The only head of state not assassinated is the Prime Minister of Poland who "coincidently" loves the € Euro and cannot wait to integrate his own country's powerful economy with the EU's failing economy. Adding fuel to the lack of fire 5 minutes after the incident, the PM declared that the fault concerning the extermination of these heads of state lies with Putin. Whether or not Putin has some blood on his hands concerning this event remains to be seen, but it is very odd that the PM would declare this openly prior to a thorough investigation and just hours after they signed a 50 year gas pipeline deal. Concerning the former President's enemies...Nicholas Sarkozy even went so far as to suggest that the EU kick out Poland until they accept the debt slavery creating currency and the head of the EU also considered Poland's central bank to be a "pebble in their shoe" concerning his agenda with implementing a continent-wide New World Order/IMF run monetary system. If cui bono and motive were ever important concerning a coup d'etat, they sure are now. Just like they were when NATO special operations assassinated Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro.

Awesome, Sane. This should give me material for research on a new article I'm working on. :)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 04:47:07 pm
This video will disappear.
Gunshots heard at Polish Plane Crash Site
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmHSIVDwE&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: UKStewart82 on April 13, 2010, 04:50:43 pm
I'm shocked that video hasn't already been taken down.  wow.   :o
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: larsonstdoc on April 13, 2010, 04:55:43 pm
I'm shocked that video hasn't already been taken down.  wow.   :o


  The writing appears to be Russian.  Maybe it has a chance for a while.  Does anybody have the capabilities to copy it?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 13, 2010, 04:58:55 pm
I have downloaded it..

I will put it on Mediafire soon..
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: larsonstdoc on April 13, 2010, 05:00:09 pm
I will put it on Mediafire soon..

Thanks
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 05:00:28 pm
I have downloaded it..

I will put it on Mediafire soon..

spread it to at least 20 places and get it to infowars
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: UKStewart82 on April 13, 2010, 05:01:59 pm
Thanks
Firefox with Flashgot Add-On.  Download anything not streaming through flash.  Awesome add-on.

Also, I've seen this "supposed" translation posted on a few sites...


As to my knowledge of Russian - the voices in the background shout “Idi otsyuda!”, which means - “Go away”. And the guy who’s filming is saying “Ni huya syebe” which is a vulgar expression, something like “Fu***g hell”, or something like that.
Most of a concern for me - the voice that orders after the shots were fired. Literally - “Everyone - go back! Leave the place!”. It’s an order to withdrawl.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:06:57 pm
From another forum (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread561155/pg1):

Well before the man comes into the view of the camera, 3 gunshots has been heard then it pans to the old guy but while the guy was talking, there was another gunshot, the 3rd shot, again before the old man comes into view. So it's already 3 gunshots sounds has passed and as soon as the guy comes into view, it seems like he was actually looking towards the noise then you could see his head and body rotated around and started to walk away. I don't know what its being said but it could be the camera guy was talking to the old guy when the shots were being fired...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:08:30 pm
Firefox with Flashgot Add-On.  Download anything not streaming through flash.  Awesome add-on.

Also, I've seen this "supposed" translation posted on a few sites...


As to my knowledge of Russian - the voices in the background shout “Idi otsyuda!”, which means - “Go away”. And the guy who’s filming is saying “Ni huya syebe” which is a vulgar expression, something like “Fu***g hell”, or something like that.
Most of a concern for me - the voice that orders after the shots were fired. Literally - “Everyone - go back! Leave the place!”. It’s an order to withdrawl.

Stewart, if you can write up a blurb about it, then send that with the video youtube and direct download link (hotfile or something similar) to onedeaddj@yahoo.com, Paul will take a look at it...make sure you mention the translated Russian.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 13, 2010, 05:08:54 pm
well the pro US CIA took out JFK on behalf of the bankers.

lets not forget, by order of L. B. Johnson and with "Bulldog" Hoover's smirking approval because John had fired his boss Alan Dulles
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:10:06 pm
From yet another forum (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2492343/posts):

Definitely sounded like pistol shots. That wasn’t ammunition cooking off, the sound was different. What caught my attention is after the shots, the spectator in front of the camera man started moving away... “I didn’t see nuthin” kind of shuffling away.
____

The voice in Russian says what basically can be translated as WTF.
____

Recording is indeed strange.
First - no voices, camera approaching wreckage. Then 1 shot. Voice (presumably of a cameraman) - WTF.
Then shortly a voice in the background ordering to attack (?!) 2 more shots.
Another WTF from a cameraman as he starts to move away.
One more shot and the voice in the background ordering to withdraw.
____

Right after the second shot is the sound of a group of men .. sounds like three .. laughing.

Waayyy out of place for the scene.
____

Это лицо, продвигается Это лицо, продвигается

According to Google Translation:

"This person is moving ."
____

The sound of a cartridge exploding from a fire is different than the sound of a bullet fired from a handgun. Throw some cartridges into a bonfire; no sonic crack, just a “poof”. Fire a handgun and there is a sonic crack, unless it is at true point blank range so the bullet does not travel through much space. Three of the four shots on this youtube have a sonic crack so they had to be from bullets exiting a barrel at a speed greater than the speed of sound. The forth shot, IMO, was fired at very close range, probably downward, as there is no sonic crack. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 13, 2010, 05:13:59 pm
Here is the link..

Mediafire Download.

http://www.mediafire.com/?nozmrnxbky4 (http://www.mediafire.com/?nozmrnxbky4)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 05:17:14 pm
lets not forget, by order of L. B. Johnson and with "Bulldog" Hoover's smirking approval because John had fired his boss Alan Dulles

but the main guys IMO are rockefeller and harriman (the bankers due to JFK's challenge to the federal reserve, like the pres of poland to the euro), sir j edgar more than willing to help get rid of the pebbles in many elites' sandle.s
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: UKStewart82 on April 13, 2010, 05:18:49 pm
Stewart, if you can write up a blurb about it, then send that with the video youtube and direct download link (hotfile or something similar) to onedeaddj@yahoo.com, Paul will take a look at it...make sure you mention the translated Russian.
Done Fema.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 13, 2010, 05:19:07 pm
but the main guys IMO are rockefeller and harriman, sir j edgar more than willing to get rid of the pebble in his sandle.

True that
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Jackson Holly on April 13, 2010, 05:21:58 pm


I gotta say ... this video sounds like somebody is going through the wreckage finishing off anyone still  moving. Is that what you guys are hearing?

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:22:17 pm
YouTube comments: (TRANSLATED)

recognizemyself 4! shots 0:57, 1:06, 1: 14 at the end of sentence! Does anybody know what this someone screaming in the background 1:12 to 1:14? 1:16 do not want to say anything but I think it is in Polish / you have to move to a program for video-voice who has options to boost more than podglasniania soundtrack provides 2 minutes ago.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:24:10 pm
Check the translation of the comments yourselves, guys:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRkEmHSIVDwE%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&sl=auto&tl=en
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:30:13 pm
All comments (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fcomment_servlet%3Fall_comments%26v%3DRkEmHSIVDwE) posted here (in case of deletion):

http://pastebin.com/kyZKT1zd
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Jackson Holly on April 13, 2010, 05:33:22 pm

I gotta say ... this video sounds like somebody is going through the wreckage finishing off anyone still  moving. Is that what you guys are hearing?



If so, they would have to know EXACTLY where the plane was coming down ...
to have gunmen on the scene that QUICKLY.

The plane's crew may have suicided themselves 'for the cause' ... or the plane
may have been electro~hi-jacked. It sounds more like the former to me at this point.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:35:11 pm
Retranslated:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpastebin.com%2FkyZKT1zd

Among the translated comments:

He is saying something like "What the f**k" but someone is screaming "do not come up"
_____

Dude screams (1'18''), "Where you going?" bartek97 guy yells, "Where you going?" Reply: "Ni f**k yourself!" (Probably something like: what do you care)

_____

tworczoscprzystanek is right - in the first second to the right of the fire you can see if someone got up and immediately fell in
_____

beginning to the 1 second - poklatkowo going very slowly, the lesions can see something black, like a charred character moved in
_____

Glock sound is heard everywhere m9 f**king loud and quiet are the weapons behind the veil, even a small sound giving medications
_____

you can see from the guy and heard the first shot (click) starts to retreat and hide behind the trees, as if suddenly frightened of something
_____

The other voices say ...all get out of here
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 13, 2010, 05:37:10 pm
I believe Eurocrats may have planned this but Russians/Belorus did the dirty work for them.  In bed together.  Common economic interests.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: UKStewart82 on April 13, 2010, 05:43:29 pm
The Debris Field...And an article 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265482/Leck-Kaczynski-Russia-engineered-plane-crash-claims-Polish-MP.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265482/Leck-Kaczynski-Russia-engineered-plane-crash-claims-Polish-MP.html)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/12/article-1265482-091B833B000005DC-207_468x555_popup.jpg)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:48:59 pm
Another comment:

do you have more footage? this video is already on polish news websites
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: xereau on April 13, 2010, 05:49:38 pm
The Debris Field...And an article 'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265482/Leck-Kaczynski-Russia-engineered-plane-crash-claims-Polish-MP.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265482/Leck-Kaczynski-Russia-engineered-plane-crash-claims-Polish-MP.html)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/12/article-1265482-091B833B000005DC-207_468x555_popup.jpg)

There was still people left alive in that debris field to 'finish off'?

I seriously doubt this.....
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 05:52:44 pm
there was a NATO miilitary training mission in Belarus a few months ago, any knowledge on what the gist of it was?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 05:54:53 pm
One of the comments referred to an small EMP bomb being able to disable the plane instantly. Perhaps this was a modification that was put into the plane in December?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 13, 2010, 05:58:31 pm
there was a NATO miilitary training mission in Belarus a few months ago, any knowledge on what the gist of it was?
ZAPAD exercise Sept. 2009 in Belarus

Planned assault ground and air on Baltic state.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 06:05:47 pm
Another comment:

You've heard about this guy operator, which lived in a hotel near the accident? Went there with a camera and filmed the event, followed by Russians militiamen chased him, took the tape threatening weapon. Went there with a camera and filmed the event, followed by Russians militiamen chased him, took the tape threatening weapon. Then just mentioned that he was near the accident and about the incident is not. There's more he didn't get a chance to show.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 06:09:24 pm
It's hard to translate everything, because comments can be in English, Russian, Polish, Belarussian, Czech, and other languages apparently...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 06:13:07 pm
ZAPAD exercise Sept. 2009 in Belarus

Planned assault ground and air on Baltic state.

i think there was something around jan/feb.

belarus was locking up poles indiscriminantly for the past few weeks up to the event which even got the attention of the UN.

how close is the crash to the  border?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 06:21:32 pm
NATO military exercises planned as Baltic States hit panic button
http://rt.com/Politics/2010-03-03/nato-military-exercise-baltic.html
Published 03 March, 2010, 20:53


The exercises will represent "the most recent demonstration of NATO solidarity and commitment to its member countries in the Baltic region”, says Thomas Dillschneider, spokesman for the Allied Air Headquarters in Ramstein, Germany.

The training mission will involve French Mirage, Polish F-16 fighters, Lithuanian L-39 Albatross aircraft, as well as U.S. aerial tankers.

The announcement comes shortly after the news that NATO-member France is in “exclusive talks” to sell Russia up to four warships. The French 20,000-ton Mistral-class command and control helicopter carriers will significantly enhance Russia’s naval ability to project power over greater distances. The deal, estimated at about $2.2 billion, is the first military sale to Russia by a NATO country.



NATO plans military exercises near Russian border
http://en.rian.ru/world/20100304/158089565.html
11:2504/03/2010

Zapad 2009 strategic exercises held at the Khmelyovka firing range

NATO has announced it will hold military exercises involving fighter planes over the Baltic Sea this month, the first in a series of military drills to be held this year near the Russian border.

The Baltic Region Training Event training mission will take place over the former Soviet republics of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, and will involve French Mirage 2000C, Polish F-16, and Lithuanian L-39 Albatross fighters, along with U.S. aerial tankers.

The exercises will demonstrate "NATO solidarity and commitment to its member countries in the Baltic region," a spokesman for the Allied Air Headquarters said.

The military events will continue in June in northern Estonia, where up to 500 U.S. Marines and Estonian soldiers will be involved in a ten-day drills about a hundred km from the Russian border, Russia's Kommersant daily said on Thursday.

Another joint military exercise of NATO and the Baltic states will be held in Latvia this autumn. Involving over 2,000 personnel from Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and the U.S., the exercise will be the largest in the area since the three countries joined the alliance in 2004.

Leaders of the three former Soviet Baltic states have repeatedly spoken in favor of large-scale military exercises in the region with the participation of NATO's European contingent since the August 2008 war between Russia and Georgia.

Their concerns seemed to be further aggravated by the Russian-Belarusian Zapad 2009 exercises, held last September in Belarus. Some Baltic politicians said the drills, involving around 13,000 service personnel, 63 airplanes, 40 helicopters, 470 infantry fighting vehicles, 228 tanks and 234 artillery pieces, were to train "various plans of assault" on some Baltic states, Kommersant said.

Russia's deal to buy four Mistral warships from France also caused a stir in Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian and Polish military circles. The deal, if concluded, will be the first-ever military sale to Russia by a NATO country.

The NATO spokesman said however there was "no relationship between our training event and the potential Mistral deal."

MOSCOW, March 4 (RIA Novosti)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 06:21:59 pm
i think there was something around jan/feb.

belarus was locking up poles indiscriminantly for the past few weeks up to the event which even got the attention of the UN.

how close is the crash to the  border?

(http://i.imgur.com/oISJF.png) (http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fgw-poland-president-crash-map,0,3218653.htmlstory)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 06:25:55 pm
NATO Rattles Its Weapons Near Russia’s Borders Again
Front page / World / Former USSR
18.03.2010   Source: Pravda.Ru

NATO opened the Baltic Region Training Event – a first in a series of large scale military maneuvers to be held in the Baltic States in 2010. The main goal of the drills is to have Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania integrated into the air policing system of the alliance. Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, France and the United States take part in the event. Poland’s F16, France’s Mirage 2000 and USA’s fueling aircraft, Lithuania’s L39 Albatros will perform joint flights.    

The drills are supervised from NATO’s Air Force Headquarters in Rammstein, Germany. An official statement from the headquarters said that the air drills in the Baltic region was a demonstration of NATO’s unity.

NATO started holding drills in the Baltic region in 2008. This year, NATO will organize several drills in the region to train the delivery and deployment of NATO troops.

The maneuvers of 2010 will be the largest since the time when the three Baltic States joined NATO.

Who needs military activities near Russia’s borders? NATO officials claim that the alliance does not threaten Russia, but it seems that Brussels sticks to the same doctrines, for which the military bloc was created.

Some experts believe that NATO organized the drills in response to Russia’s demonstration of force in the war with Georgia. Russia has also conducted joint drills with Belarus, which could also make NATO remind Russia of its presence in the region.

It is obvious, though, that NATO holds the event in the region to strengthen the sanitary cordon with Russia and show Russia who is the master in the Baltic States.

The current and future maneuvers held near the borders of Russia and Belarus can be explained with the development of a certain defense plan for the Baltic States, which is something that the countries wanted to obtain from the alliance. An official spokesman for Estonia’s defense ministry said that the ministry was working on such a plan.

It goes without saying that defense is extremely important. However, it is important only if there is danger of military threat. Russia does not post any threat to the Baltic States, although the leaders of these countries refer to the Georgian experience. Such a reference is politically incorrect and cynical. Georgia was internationally recognized as the aggressor in the war of 2008.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 06:26:51 pm
Горит самолет.mp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmHSIVDwE

There are undoubtedly gunshots...sounds like a mixture of automatic and shotgun fire...I also heard yelling, and later laughing. Not like fire crackling, this is a sharp crack with an echo...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 06:27:25 pm
Georgian TV foretold murder of Polish President by Russian KGB terrorists
http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/11/11838.shtml
http://is.park.ru/doc.jsp?urn=27375571

What's your opinion of this?

Translated: Russian to English:
http://is.park.ru/doc.jsp?urn=27375571
http://translation2.paralink.com/
 


that website is CIA/Mossad/G7 al-CIA-duh crapola site used for disseminating ghost threats.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 06:31:12 pm
Belarusian Crackdown On Polish Minority Puts EU Relations At Risk
http://www.rferl.org/content/Belarusian_Crackdown_On_Polish_Minority_Puts_EU_Relations_At_Risk/1961039.html
February 17, 2010
By Ahto Lobjakas


BRUSSELS -- Analysts are at a loss as to why Belarusian strongman Alyaksandr Lukashenka would want to jeopardize his quietly budding relationship with the European Union.

The continued Belarusian crackdown against activists from its Polish minority is now likely to be discussed by EU foreign ministers meeting in Brussels next week, officials in Brussels say.

The current standoff between the authoritarian regime in Belarus and the independent leaders of its Polish minority has angered EU member state Poland and is threatening to develop into a serious test of the EU's belief in the redemptive powers of dialogue.

Should it continue, the crackdown could also reverse the rapprochement the EU has carefully nursed with President Alyaksandr Lukashenka, dubbed "Europe's last dictator," over the past two years.

The latest controversy began with Minsk sanctioning the arrest of ethnic Polish activists and evicting prominent Polish groups from their headquarters. The incidents prompted Warsaw to intervene last week, provoking a cascade of further protests and the arrests of more than 30 activists from the Union of Poles in Belarus (ZPB), including its chairwoman, Andzelika Borys. Warsaw has threatened to close its borders to some as-yet-unspecified Belarusian leaders.

The EU finally weighed in on February 16, with Catherine Ashton, the new EU high representative for foreign policy, saying she was "deeply concerned." In a statement, Ashton warned Minsk that the EU's future assistance to Belarus is "conditional on steps towards democratization and upholding human rights, including minority rights, taken by the government of Belarus."

Ashton's spokesman, Lutz Guellner, told reporters in Brussels today that Ashton is now seeking direct contact with Belarusian leaders. Phone conversations could take place as early as "today or over the next couple of days," Guellner said.

Alienation In Hrodna

Well-meaning as it may be, the EU remains literally a thousand miles from the western Belarusian city of Hrodna, which is at the epicenter of the current controversy. There, Belarusian and ethnic Polish residents indicated in interviews with RFE/RL they were concerned by the prospect of new EU sanctions and what many saw as an artificial dispute stirred for purely political reasons.

A demonstration of solidarity in Hrodna with the Polish activist arrested this week.
One man said Poland's threat to impose travel sanctions was the "correct response." "Our officials' main problem is their lack of responsibility and accountability. If they're stripped of [their travel rights], maybe they'll think twice about what they're doing," he said.

One woman dismissed the depiction popular in Minsk of a country unsettled by an upstart Polish minority, saying relations between Belarusians and ethnic Poles are fine: "I work with many Poles and their attitude toward us, as Belarusians, is very good," she said. "I think the conflict is artificial and specially created by bad people."

Many residents expressed the fear that the controversy would ultimately hurt long-awaited openings to Europe, and by extension, ordinary citizens of Belarus. "It's not beneficial for anyone -- not Poland, not the EU, and mostly not for Belarus," another Hrodna resident said. "But decisions in this republic, in Belarus, are made by one person. Whatever he decides, that's how it'll be."

Alienation runs deep in Belarus, one of Europe's poorest countries, which borders three of the EU's member states -- Poland, Lithuania, and Latvia

Efforts In Warsaw, Brussels

Top EU diplomat Ashton is understood to support Poland's drive to raise the issue at the next EU foreign ministers meeting, which will take place in Brussels on February 22. Speaking on February 16, Ashton likewise tacitly endorsed the credentials of ZPB leader Borys as "democratically elected." In her statement Ashton condemned what she said "appear to be attempts by the authorities to impose a new leadership on the Polish community."

Official Minsk's relations with its 400,000-strong Polish minority have always been tense. In 2005, President Lukashenka accused the Poles of being a "fifth column" bent on destabilizing his regime. Belarus does not officially recognize Borys's ZPB, which promotes the Polish language and cultural traditions, and which Warsaw sees as the sole legal representative of the Polish minority in Belarus. Instead, Minsk has promoted a rival, pro-government Polish body.

Poland has long spearheaded the EU's tentative embrace of Belarus, which saw the country join the bloc's Eastern Partnership last May. An EU travel ban on key government figures had been lifted earlier, in October 2008, and the suspension extended by a year last November despite misgivings in a number of EU countries.

The current crackdown seems to have taken Warsaw by surprise. After inconclusive crisis talks between Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski and his Belarusian opposite number Syarhey Martynau in Warsaw on February 12, Poland threatened to impose its own visa ban on officials held responsible for the anti-Polish measures. A definitive blacklist is yet to emerge, with Warsaw possibly keen to await the results of the EU foreign ministers meeting.

Pyotr Kaczynski, an analyst with the Center for European Policy Studies in Brussels, says that Warsaw is continuing to work behind the scenes in a bid to get Belarus to reverse its policy of persecution of independent Polish activists. "What I'm seeing in the news is a clear two-way street -- not a one-way street, a two-way street," he says. "[On the one hand], they [Warsaw] are saying what will happen should this process continue, but they are keeping the back door open, calling on President Lukashenka to change this policy, to undo the mistakes and, [thereby], to return to the course of action which was pretty positive in bringing the EU and Belarus closer together."

Minsk's Motives

Minsk's motives, meanwhile, remain inscrutable. Matzej Plazynski, a Polish senator and the director of Wspolnoty Polskiej, an organization that works with Polish minorities throughout the world, says that "Belarus has tricked Polish diplomacy."

EU Parliament President Jerzy Buzek (left) warned that without democracy, Belarus will not be able to make use of the EU's support.
Analyst Kaczynski says Lukashenka's calculations may conceivably have something to do with the recent electoral victory of the pro-Russian President-elect Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine, or possibly with direct meddling from Moscow. But "it's impossible to see into Lukashenka's head," Kaczynski concludes.

Belarusian political analyst Uladzimir Matskevich says the sudden shift for the worse in Polish-Belarusian relations -- which he describes as "completely not in the interests of the regime" -- may be a reflection of factional infighting within the Belarusian regime. "If one views the regime as some united, monolithic entity that should behave rationally, then no explanation for this conflict with Poland can be found," he says. "However, if one is to postulate that there is some conflict, some competition between forces within the regime, then an explanation does emerge."

Matskevich believes countervailing pro-Polish and pro-Russian interests are vying for dominance in Minsk. If the current escalation of tensions with the EU is followed by personnel changes in the top flights of the Belarusian government, the pro-Polish faction is likely to have gained the upper hand; if not, Matskevich says, it may be that “Lukashenka thinks he's already done enough to normalize relations with Europe."

EU diplomats say the bloc's representatives in Minsk believe Lukashenka personally has authorized the crackdown against the Polish minority.

No Wish To Rock The Boat

Warsaw this week wheeled out its biggest guns in Europe to impress on Minsk the seriousness of the choice it is facing. The president of the European Parliament, Poland's Jerzy Buzek, was in Warsaw on February 16 for a meeting with Belarusian opposition leader Alyaksandr Milinkevich. After the meeting, Buzek warned that without democracy, Belarus will not be able to make use of the supporting instruments offered to it in the framework of the EU's Neighborhood Policy.

Owing to its democratic deficit, Belarus is currently not eligible for EU neighborhood funds, although the bloc indicated last autumn it may be amenable to allowing Minsk access to some funding on a tentative and conditional basis.

More relevantly, the EU could make it very difficult for the crisis-stricken country to secure further loans from the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Last year, the IMF gave Belarus $2.2 billion in bridging loans.

While it is assured of general EU backing in the standoff with Lukashenka, Poland itself faces a delicate balancing act. Having expended significant political capital to breathe life into the Eastern Partnership as a counterweight to Russian influence in the region -- and coaxed Belarus into it, as an integral part of the edifice -- Warsaw cannot afford to rock the boat too much.

The credibility of the EU's new member states is also at stake, given their attempts over the past few years to direct EU policy in their neighborhood.

The EU as a whole remains crucially interested in stability on its borders. Denying Belarus emergency financial aid -- or taking other measures that could push Minsk into the arms of Moscow -- would be counterproductive for the entire bloc.

Given all this, as well as the EU's well-established preference for dialogue over conflict, Belarus is unlikely to risk more than a token suspension of its participation in the Eastern Partnership. With the next Eastern Partnership summit scheduled to take place some time in 2011, there is ample time for Lukashenka to undo the damage -- should he feel so inclined.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 06:33:01 pm
Poland warns Belarus on crackdown
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1449d860-1a55-11df-a2e3-00144feab49a.html
By Jan Cienski in Warsaw

Published: February 16 2010 23:33 | Last updated: February 16 2010 23:33

A crackdown by Belarusian authorities against the leaders of the former Soviet republic's Polish minority is prompting Warsaw to warn that the wave of arrests could harm the recent warming between Belarus and the European Union.

Belarus has arrested several dozen Polish activists, sentencing some to five-day jail terms, and levying a 1m rouble ($360) fine against Andzelika Borys, the leader of the delegalised Union of Poles in Belarus, after the activists protested the confiscation of a Polish cultural centre in the Belarusian town of Ivyanets.

Andrzej Kremer, Poland's deputy foreign minister, warned on Monday that if repressive measures were not halted, Belarus would isolate itself from the EU.

“People directly responsible for repressions against Poles in Belarus will not have the right to enter our country,” he said.

Radoslaw Sikorski, Poland's foreign minister, met on Friday in Warsaw with his Belarusian counterpart, Sergei Martynov, and reportedly warned him about the consequences of the anti-Polish measures.

Until recently, Poland had been a strong advocate of improving ties with Belarus, frequently dubbed Europe's last dictatorship for the authoritarian government of Alexander Lukashenko, the president.

Mr Kremer's concerns were echoed by Jerzy Buzek, the president of the European Parliament, who called Minsk's actions “unsettling” and noted that they seemed to be aimed at the political opposition in general, and not just against the Polish minority. A parliamentary mission is scheduled to travel to Belarus next week to investigate.

Belarus, a country of about 10m, has a Polish minority of about 400,000, a remnant from pre-war times when western Belarus was a part of Poland. The Union of Poles in Belarus became the country's largest nongovernment organisation after most opposition groups were driven underground by Mr Lukashenko, prompting the government to form a pro-regime Polish organisation in 2005 which took over the assets of the independent group.

Mr Lukashenko's government was pushed to warm ties with Europe when his Russian allies tired of propping him up through cheap oil and gas and began to demand world prices for energy. Belarus's ramshackle economy needed investment and new markets to survive, and Mr Lukashenko released all of his political prisoners in 2008 as a way of improving relations with the west.

However, in recent months the government seems to have changed tack, occasionally arresting Belarusian dissidents as well as clamping down on the Polish minority.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Kilika on April 13, 2010, 06:33:47 pm
I counted 4 shots, and there was some chatter like laughing. It didn't sound like distress. And why was the camera so far back? Was the camera kept back or conviently stayed back to not show things? This video is very interesting. Serious autopsies are in order I'd say.
Title: Where's Waldo
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 13, 2010, 06:35:16 pm
Quick Pop Quiz time kiddies, pic on left is Shanksville, Pa. Pic on right is in Russia

(http://i42.tinypic.com/24w5895.jpg)  - (http://i43.tinypic.com/28br79i.jpg)


WHATS MISSING?

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 06:35:31 pm
look at a map of poland russia and belarus.

what if the president was working a financial deal with russia, what would be the purpose of the 20 year+ special arrangement with belarus?

why would russia need to give belarus special treatment to block the eu anymore?

and late last year sarkozy even said publicly...[paraphrase] "we need to think of the possibility of an eu without poland."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 06:45:20 pm
Russia stops oil shipments to Belarus
http://m.ft.com/cms/s/0/45e87598-f863-11de-beb8-00144feab49a.html
By Charles Clover 4 Jan 2010 9:12am

Russia has stopped shipments of oil to Belarus following a dispute about pricing, oil traders said on Sunday.

The move will set off alarm bells in Europe, triggering memories of last January's natural gas war between Russia and Ukraine that left several eastern European cities without gas for days. Oil, however, is more fungible than gas, and easily made up with alternative suppliers, so the consequences of the dispute are unlikely to be as severe.

The cut-off is the first since January 2007, when Russia stopped pumping oil to Belarus for three days following a similar tariff battle, which was eventually resolved in Russia's favour.

Despite the action, oil exports to Europe were still flowing and refineries in Belarus had a week's worth of oil stockpiled, Reuters reported.

Irina Yesipova, of Moscow's energy ministry, told Russian news agency RIA Novosti on Sunday that oil transit flows to Europe were unaffected by the dispute: "Transportation is being carried out in full measure and the negotiation process is continuing right now," she said, without giving details.

Julia Nanay, of the Washington-based Petroleum Finance Company, said the pipeline via Belarus supplied up to 800,000 barrels a day of oil products to Germany and Poland. "If this delivery were cut it would be serious. However, the crude continues to transit Belarus for now and Germany and Poland are receiving oil," she said.

Russia has long wanted to tax oil exported to Belarus. For years Belarus has made a business of importing oil for its own refineries without having to pay Russia's export tax, and then selling on surplus refined products to Europe at a much cheaper rate than that charged by Russian companies.

The cut-off follows the failure of negotiations between Minsk and Moscow in the closing days of last year on new tariff arrangements for transit of Russian oil onward to Europe.

On January 1 a spokesman for the Belarus government told Interfax news agency that "unprecedented pressure" had been put on their delegation during the negotiations. Minsk called on Russia to continue supplies to Belarus under the old terms, until a new agreement could be reached.

It warned that Russian demands would violate a customs union agreement signed last year by Belarus, Russia and Kazakhstan, and "would undermine all agreements reached on the further integration of our states".

The dispute is likely to present an obstacle to closer ties between the two countries.

Belarus is virtually Russia's only ally among former Soviet republics. [Not if backroom deals with poland were in the works, then what would be the purpose of belarus special treatment?]



Moscow and Minsk signed a series of treaties aimed at unifying their countries in the 1990s, though these have failed to be realised amid friction between the Kremlin and President Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus. Likewise, the customs union agreement remains largely on paper.

Maksim Blant, an economic analyst, told the Ekho Moskvi radio station that the disagreement was over how to apply the newly signed customs union agreement to oil, with Belarus arguing that it should be collecting customs duties on behalf of Russia.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: HEBGB on April 13, 2010, 06:51:39 pm
I counted 4 shots, and there was some chatter like laughing. It didn't sound like distress. And why was the camera so far back? Was the camera kept back or conviently stayed back to not show things? This video is very interesting. Serious autopsies are in order I'd say.

Can the video be verified as authentic? Does anyone have a photo of the actual plane before it took off or crashed?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 13, 2010, 06:53:07 pm
If Belorus did this without Russian permission, I wouldn't want to be Belorus.

But anything is possible at this point.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 13, 2010, 07:07:01 pm
Can the video be verified as authentic? Does anyone have a photo of the actual plane before it took off or crashed?

The video is authentic..


Compare this Picture.to the video..
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html)



Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: HEBGB on April 13, 2010, 07:10:58 pm
Thanks for the link and help. WOW this is messed tf up
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: larsonstdoc on April 13, 2010, 07:16:39 pm
The video is authentic..


Compare this Picture.to the video..
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html)





Thanks.  I wish someone could translate the Russian spoken on the video.  Or has somebody done this in previous posts?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 13, 2010, 08:03:14 pm
Горит самолет.mp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmHSIVDwE

There are undoubtedly gunshots...sounds like a mixture of automatic and shotgun fire...I also heard yelling, and later laughing. Not like fire crackling, this is a sharp crack with an echo...

At the end of that video you can clearly hear a few gun shots (or something very similar). Sure seems that they shot the survivors - that would not surprise me at all.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 08:19:26 pm
If Belorus did this without Russian permission, I wouldn't want to be Belorus.

But anything is possible at this point.

all depends if they had eurocrats permission.

always remember the olympic judges.

these eurocrats fold like pussies when pressured, but if there is no pressure they continue.

still need much more info to make a bona fide case with belarus.

but the proximity, NATO exercises and months of strained relations are something to look into as far as motives.

also i heard that belarus is the one who was communicating with the pilot and russia (conflicting reports).

Bloomberg says it was Belarus. If Belarus was communicating directly with the plane that would be very interesting.

i am sure this is something that can easily be verified.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 13, 2010, 08:45:40 pm
I don't think the EU could protect them from Putin's wrath, even if they had EU "permission", if they didn't also have Putin's permission, but maybe, I'll be suprised.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 13, 2010, 08:55:46 pm
Still no translation of the video?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 13, 2010, 09:06:04 pm
Still no translation of the video?

what the hell / f**k.

thats what my polish friend who just sent the video to me also said it was in russian.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: N.E.P. on April 13, 2010, 09:06:31 pm
Gunshots heard at Polish Plane Crash Site-Shocking Footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX6ztLe4QLY

If this is not a hoax....This is Zapruder Film big....Video has been up for about an hour and a half. It has 152 views.
It is linked to pp forum and the thread larsonstdoc started...hopefully it goes viral.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 13, 2010, 09:08:14 pm
The video is authentic..


Compare this Picture.to the video..
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html)

http://www.mediafire.com/?nozmrnxbky4
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 09:13:37 pm
I don't think the EU could protect them from Putin's wrath, even if they had EU "permission", if they didn't also have Putin's permission, but maybe, I'll be suprised.

oh i would agree, but belarus, like georgia and ukraine get cajoled into ego trip and balsy actions without full brzezinski style long term focus.

but i also think that given ptech/interoperability and the possibility that there was a "surprise" crashing of the party (also seems a bit far fetched), mid level people may have activated some defense system on the russian side and now they are stuck. still, as you suggested, being on putin's shit list no matter what he is allowed to admit to, is not a safe place.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: N.E.P. on April 13, 2010, 09:13:58 pm
The video is authentic..


Compare this Picture.to the video..
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html)



Thanks....WOW!!!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 13, 2010, 09:16:16 pm
Thanks....WOW!!!

audio can still be faked but that is the only thing holding me back from fully agreeing.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: able on April 13, 2010, 09:18:47 pm
get large mixing bowl.

add sh*t.

blend storm into sh*t.

serve hot.

note *** if your local store is out of storm a fan can be used as a substitute ingredient.***
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 13, 2010, 09:19:55 pm
Check the translation of the comments yourselves, guys:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRkEmHSIVDwE%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&sl=auto&tl=en

strange, as of right now 10:20pm est  I get "An error has occured,please try again" in the video window
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: carlee on April 13, 2010, 09:22:31 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmHSIVDwE           


shitstorm. I hope so much that this is fake. 11 minutes ago eexppii 0:29 f**k!

0:30 Damn.
0:43 We're leaving this place, we're leaving.
0:47 Get out of here, you bastard.
0:49 Get out of here.
1:00 f**k myself.
1:12 We're all going back [away from the crash].
1:18 [Sir], get out of here. We're all leaving.
1:21 f**k myself. 24 minutes ago
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 09:24:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmHSIVDwE           


shitstorm. I hope so much that this is fake. 11 minutes ago eexppii 0:29 f**k!

0:30 Damn.
0:43 We're leaving this place, we're leaving.
0:47 Get out of here, you bastard.
0:49 Get out of here.
1:00 f**k myself.
1:12 We're all going back [away from the crash].
1:18 [Sir], get out of here. We're all leaving.
1:21 f**k myself. 24 minutes ago

has anyone confirmed dialects and possible regions?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 13, 2010, 09:27:20 pm
that audio is not faked....it is too raw, sans windscreen, you can tell the various soundbits of voices and the shot(s)? are coming from different distances due to doppelganger effect...WOW this is truly scary stuff....
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 13, 2010, 09:29:04 pm
found this....

0:29 (pizdec)
0:30 (kurwa) 0:30 (whore)
0:43 (idziemy z tąd, idziemy) 0:43 (we go from here, let's go)
0:47 (dawaj z tąd paskuda) 0:47 (come on out of here bungling)
0:49 (idzte z tąd) 0:49 (idzte of here)
1:00 (ni chuja sobie) 1:00 (ni f**k yourself)
1:12 (wszyscy spowrotem idziemy) 1:12 (we all go back)
1:18 (ojciec idź wszystko, idziemy) 1:18 (father all go, go)
1:21 (ni chuja sobie) 6 1:21 (ni f**k yourself)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: able on April 13, 2010, 09:32:21 pm
it is either real, fake or has been filmed at the actual site the next day or the day after that.

after all could it not be possible that they are warning shots to keep looters away since the crash?

just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 13, 2010, 09:32:52 pm
that audio is not faked....it is too raw, sans windscreen, you can tell the various soundbits of voices and the shot(s)? are coming from different distances due to doppelganger effect...WOW this is truly scary stuff....

its keeping me from freaking out. that is all and yes it can be but i'm not saying it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=sHHSqbuJSYs (http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=sHHSqbuJSYs)
just cause you hear a light saber doesn't mean its real...especially on you tube.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 13, 2010, 09:37:17 pm

its keeping me from freaking out. that is all and yes it can be but i'm not saying it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=sHHSqbuJSYs
just cause you hear a light saber doesn't mean its real...especially on you tube.



yes the possibility is always there, but IMO, not in this case.....

Quote from: able
it is either real, fake or has been filmed at the actual site the next day or the day after that.

after all could it not be possible that they are warning shots to keep looters away since the crash?

just thinking out load

able, you bring up a good point, now that i look @ this again w/ that in mind....
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: N.E.P. on April 13, 2010, 09:40:07 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmHSIVDwE           


shitstorm. I hope so much that this is fake. 11 minutes ago eexppii 0:29 f**k!

0:30 Damn.
0:43 We're leaving this place, we're leaving.
0:47 Get out of here, you bastard.
0:49 Get out of here.
1:00 f**k myself.
1:12 We're all going back [away from the crash].
1:18 [Sir], get out of here. We're all leaving.
1:21 f**k myself. 24 minutes ago

Carlee, thanks.
I am gonna add subtitles to vid. I'll wait to this translation is confirmed and use it.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 10:12:55 pm
No Official Mourning In Belarus After Death of Kaczyński So Far
http://belarusdigest.com/2010/04/14/no-official-mourning-in-belarus-after-death-of-kaczynski/


Kaczyński's portrait at the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Minsk - nn.by
Belarus is at this moment the only country in the region that has not declared an official day of national mourning following the death of the Polish president in a plane crash on Saturday. Lithuania, Ukraine, Czech Republic and Russia have declared official mourning, relevant events will be held by EU official bodies. Even countries like Brazil and Canada have joined. The Belarusian government has so far limited its reaction by statements of condolence.


To the contrary, the Belarusian civil society is actively expressing its solidarity with Poland, many people have come to the Polish embassy to lay flowers (see a photo report by Naša Niva), leaders of Orthodox and Catholic churches in Belarus have held requiem services .

The Belarusian authorities have done their part of job to help Poland after the plane crash. An airplane with relatives of the victims of Saturday’s tragedy has landed in the airport of Viciebsk, the Belarusian government has provided the people with visa-free entry to Belarus and a transport to Smolensk.

It seems that nothing more could be expected from the Belarusian officials. Poland was and remains an unfriendly country to the regime of Aliaksandr Lukashenka. Poland actively supports the democratic opposition in Belarus, criticizes human rights violations and repressions against the Union of Poles of Belarus. The Polish state television sponsors the independent Belarusian satellite TV channel Belsat.

Unwillingness to contact with Belarusian authorities was probably the reason why Kaczyński’s pilots have refused to land in Minsk, as it has been advised by Russian dispatchers at the Smolensk North airport.

On the day of the planned funeral ceremonies, flags on official buildings in Germany will be lowered to half-mast. On Monday, EU flags in front of the EU and EC buildings in Brussels, Strasbourg and in capitals of all 27 EU states were lowered half-mast as a sign of mourning.

Also the Council of Europe declared Monday a day of mourning and lowered flags in front of its seat in Strasbourg. In front of NATO headquarters in Brussels, the Polish flag was hoisted half- mast since Saturday. On Monday flags there were lowered by Lithuania, Estonia and Great Britain.

A number of countries declared national mourning. Among them are Brazil and Lithuania which declared three-day mourning. The Czech Republic, Slovakia and Turkey will mourn the Polish president on the day of his funeral. Estonia, Ukraine, Spain and Latvia declared mourning on Monday. In Moldova national mourning will be observed on Tuesday. Flowers were laid and candles were lit in front of the Polish mission in Minsk, the capital of Belarus.

Read the story at People’s Daily.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 10:17:15 pm
prior to the event, belarus finds a new godfather...



China Pledges More Than $4 Billion Aid Package To Belarus
 http://www.rttnews.com/Content/MarketSensitiveNews.aspx?Id=1251349&SM=1
3/25/2010 10:45 AM  ET (RTTNews) -  


Belarus, isolated by most developed nations, is to receive low interest loans and commercial contracts worth more than $4 billion from China.

The financial support was pledged by Chinese Vice-President Xi Jinping during talks with Belarussian President Alexander Lukashenko Wednesday.

Beijing's aid package includes $1 billion credit on easy terms, commercial contracts worth $3.4 billion, and a $9 million cash grant, which is not re-payable.

At a press conference in capital Minsk, Lukashenko expressed gratitude for China's economic support.

Lukashenko says China-Belarus trade turnover has multiplied many-fold in the last two years, from $500 million to $2.5 billion.

"We are ready to cooperate on anything from agriculture to atomic power stations," he told reporters.

Irked by the authoritarian leader's poor human rights record, the United States and the European Union have imposed sanctions on the former Soviet Republic.

EU sanctions against Belarus date back to 1999. In 2008, a travel ban on Lukashenko and several associates was suspended as an incentive for reform in the country.

Last year, thousands of anti-government activists held nationwide demonstrations in protest against the authoritarian rule of Lukashenko, dubbed by the United States as "Europe's last dictator."

Lukashenko is seeking increased economic ties with anti-American countries, most recently Venezuela and Iran.

by RTT Staff Writer
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 13, 2010, 10:22:54 pm
The plane came down too soon, officials said over the weekend, hitting the ground almost a mile away from Smolensk North, a military airfield that has historically been used as a base for a fleet of Ilyushin cargo planes and by the Smolensk aircraft factory for flight testing. Last October, however, the military fleet was relocated and it is not clear how actively the field was used in the months before 96 people perished on their way to a ceremony marking 70 years since the massacre of Polish officers by Soviet troops in the nearby Katyn forest.

The small airfield is far from an international airport with up-to-date equipment. "It's a military airfield in poor condition," said Vitaly Shelkovnikov, a flight safety consultant who served as deputy transportation minister in the 1990s. Unlike most civilian airports in Russia, Smolensk North does not have an Instrument Landing System and is equipped with just one radio transmitter. Therefore the crew on incoming flights must track and report on altitude. But it is unclear how the Polish crew communicated with air traffic controllers at Smolensk North, who only speak Russian.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/russia/100412/smolensk-airport-polish-plane-crash


There are two airports located near the city; Smolensk South (civilian) and Smolensk North (military), however, there are no regular flights scheduled to Smolensk South Airport. The 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash that took the lives of many of Poland's top officials and dignitaries occurred near Smolensk North.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk


(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg7/brockelever/Smolensk_crash_map.jpg)

I have superimposed the crash site image over a google maps screenshot.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg7/brockelever/Smolensk_crash_glidepath.jpg)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 10:42:57 pm
good background information on russia's geopolitical strategy concerning energy markets...
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article18073.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 13, 2010, 10:52:14 pm
holy crap, like 2 days before the decapitation of poland...




Belarus: Capitalism's Unlikely Frontier
With Russian subsidies declining,
President Lukashenko is looking westward for investment

http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/10_16/b4174058701385.htm
By Carol Matlack April 8, 2010, 11:00AM EST

French software startup Abaxia was hunting for an offshore research and development site in 2006 when one of its employees suggested taking a look at his native country, Belarus. "I had to get out an atlas to be sure where it was," recalls Ongan Mordeniz, Abaxia's R&D chief.

Today, more than half of Abaxia's employees work in the former Soviet republic of 9.5 million, wedged between Russia and Poland on the EU's eastern rim. The company and two affiliates employ 85 engineers at a software development center in Minsk near the former Communist Party headquarters, which is now President Alexander Lukashenko's residence. They're among an estimated 10,000 professionals working for outsourcing operations in what is now the region's No. 3 country for such shops, behind Ukraine and Romania, according to the Central and Eastern European Outsourcing Assn.

Why Belarus? After all, two decades after the fall of the Berlin Wall the country still seems sealed in a time capsule, with a centrally planned economy run by an authoritarian leader who is routinely denounced by Western governments for what the U.S. State Dept. terms "frequent serious abuses" of human rights. Minsk (pop. 1.8 million), a tranquil city of wide boulevards, hulking Stalinist architecture, and Soviet-era factories, is an unlikely place to find capitalism's new frontier.

Yet the Lukashenko government is opening the door to investment as never before. Since 2007 it has enacted regulatory reforms and tax relief measures that have vaulted Belarus from 129th place to 58th on the World Bank's ranking of the "ease of doing business" in 183 countries. (Poland ranked 72nd, Russia came in 120th, and Ukraine was 142nd.) The Belarus government says foreign direct investment more than doubled last year, to $4.8 billion, even as investment plummeted in neighboring countries.


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_16/b4174058702982.htm

American companies may soon join the wave. In late March representatives of Microsoft (MSFT), Cisco Systems (CSCO), Honeywell (HON), and Navistar (NAV) (formerly International Harvester) visited Minsk for meetings with Lukashenko and top business leaders. "We see great opportunities here," says Veronika Prikrylová, Microsoft's business development manager for Central and Eastern Europe. Microsoft is opening a sales office in Minsk this spring and hopes that having a local presence will help it combat piracy. An estimated 80% of software now used in Belarus is illegally copied, Prikrylová says.

Lukashenko is looking westward as Russia pulls back on aid to its neighbor. Belarus' economy has long been kept afloat by Russia, which has supplied it with below-market-priced energy while soaking up exports from inefficient Belarussian factories. Economic growth over the past decade has averaged 7.1% annually. "We are not rich, but the government takes care of us," says Galina Zorina, a retired piano teacher strolling through Minsk with her sister, carrying a spray of willow branches for the Russian Orthodox version of Palm Sunday. Russia has subsidized Belarus to keep it as a buffer against EU and NATO expansion. [If Russia found another buffer, like Poland, it would be the biggest blow to NATO in over 50 years, VERY COMPELING INCENTIVE FOR COVERT OPERATIONS BY ALDO MORO ASSASSINATION TEAMS]

The nation has been a high-tech magnet since Soviet times. Minsk was one of the Communist bloc's computer-science capitals, and local universities still turn out 4,000 information technology grads every year. Salaries, which average $1,200 a month for Abaxia's engineers, are only slightly above the $1,160 average for engineers at India's IT outsourcing companies. Yet while some graduates emigrate, the low cost of living in Belarus keeps many at home. "I thought about moving to the U.K., but it's easier to support my wife and kids here," says Alexey Balushkin, 27, a senior software designer at Abaxia.

Belarus also produces world-class specialists in mathematics and physics. That's an attraction to companies such as Invention Machine, a Boston-based group that in 2004 acquired the assets of a Belarus software company. Invention Machine now runs an 80-person lab in Minsk, including a team of computational linguists who develop "semantic engines" capable of extracting and analyzing key concepts from documents in multiple languages. "They have taken the field of natural language processing to a new level," says James W. Todhunter, the company's chief technology officer.

Invention Machine is one of 78 tenants in a high-tech park the government established in Minsk in 2005. All benefit from generous incentives, including exemption from Belarus' 24% corporate income tax and a provision that lets expatriate managers work without having to obtain work permits. "No other country in the region has done this much" to attract IT investment, says Arkady Dobkin, CEO of EPAM Systems, a Newtown (Pa.) outsourcing company with over 2,000 employees in Minsk and a client list that includes Microsoft, Oracle (ORCL), and SAP (SAP).

For now, the outsourcing boomlet is still in its infancy; the estimated $300 million it generates each year is dwarfed by the $2.5 billion in annual oil subsidies Russia has provided. Russia, pushing to get its crisis-hit economy back on track, said in January that it would end most of the subsidies this year. "It's going to get much harder for us," says Georgy Egorov, chairman of Belvnesheconombank, a leading bank in Minsk. To raise cash for the government, Lukashenko has restarted a long-stalled privatization effort. In the past two years the government has sold controlling stakes in two mobile-phone companies to Mobilkom Austria Group and Turkcell (TKC) and has said it will privatize banks. Strategic investors are also moving in. In December, Italy's Finmeccanica agreed to partner with Belarussian companies on engineering, transport, and aerospace projects. "There are few investment opportunities like this left in the world," says Tom Mundy, an economist at Moscow-based Renaissance Capital. Belarus' proximity to Europe, well-educated population, and solid infrastructure add to the appeal, he notes.

Whether global companies are ready to do business with Lukashenko is an open question. Although U.S. and EU sanctions imposed on Belarus in 2006 have expired, he still draws criticism from the West. On Mar. 30, EU Foreign Affairs Minister Catherine Ashton expressed "grave concern" about harassment of opposition figures in the runup to regional elections on Apr. 25.

Companies remain cautious. Navistar, for example, has considered supplying engine technology to MAZ, a Soviet-era producer of trucks and buses. "They need some kind of Western partnership," says Steven Hyde, Navistar's vice-president for international business development. But, he predicts, doing business in Belarus will remain an unappealing sell "as long as there is a high dependence on political personalities instead of the rule of law."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 13, 2010, 11:47:04 pm
Viral This:

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/bqlp2/video_leak_gunshots_heard_at_polish_plane_crash/
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: larsonstdoc on April 14, 2010, 12:04:33 am
Viral This:

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/bqlp2/video_leak_gunshots_heard_at_polish_plane_crash/


  Nice find Femacamper.  My sons and I go shooting often.  I have no doubt those sounds are from guns.  The quote below from your link is interesting.


Quote
Это лицо, продвигается Это лицо, продвигается
According to Google Translation:
"This person is moving ."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 12:10:23 am
  Nice find Femacamper.  My sons and I go shooting often.  I have no doubt those sounds are from guns.  The quote below from your link is interesting.



Or more precisely:

This person, this person is moving, moving...

Sounds like they were stuttering, perhaps shocked about it. I need to check the original quote to make sure that it's being translated properly.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 12:14:53 am
At any rate, it's not ammo going off in the fire. The gunshots are before and after urgent voices, which shows that there was something going on.

Definitely not the sound a gun makes if it is touched off inside a holster or under any type of debris or in a closed space.

If that is ammo cooking off, you would also hear the rounds cooking off in the mags first, not the round in the chamber which is what it sounds like.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 12:17:57 am
More Polish analysis:

pl. zmiana planow=change of plans...it seems to be heard between 1:12-1:14 in this film
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 14, 2010, 12:19:36 am
what about able's suggestion about next day looting???....anybody got timestamp on this?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 12:34:38 am
what about able's suggestion about next day looting???....anybody got timestamp on this?

Nearly impossible, since the wreckage was still burning. From the comments I've viewed in Russian, Polish and English, it appears to be within just ten minutes of the crash.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 12:51:09 am
Fictional Movie About Death Of Polish President Aired On Georgian Television 1 Month Prior To Actual Event! (http://www.tennesseesonsofliberty.com/)

The Georgian tv channel "Imedi" 4 weeks ago aired a Fictional movie where the Polish president Kazcinski was murdered in his plane which was brought down with a bomb...

This all in the light of a Russian invasion of Georgia which the Polish president knew of...

I don't find English news about the two statements, so here comes the English translation of two German spoken sources who claim the above to be true:

FIRST SOURCE (German) (http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/ausland/europa/Kaczynski-stuerzte-vor-vier-Wochen-in-einem-Film-ab/story/17473797):

Translated with Google, corrected manually where necessary:

The Georgian TV channel Imedi, controlled by Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, broadcasted on 13 march 2010 a fictional movie of a Russian attack on the Southern Kaukasus republic.

In this movie Saakashvili's ally, the polish president Lech Kaczynski was killed by a bomb on board his plane.

At that time (4 weeks ago) the (true) Polish president, did not comment on the fictional fake report of him being murdered in a movie, but Saakashvili described the film as "realistic" as reported by Russian media on Monday.

Kaczynski was in solidarity with Georgia after Russia's 2008 Southern Kaukasus war and demonstratively with Saakashvili visited the border area to the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

At that time (2008) , the pilot of Kaczynski's machine to the repeated statement of the President was opposed to land despite uncertain conditions in the conflict zone and instead activated an airport nearby. Kaczynski, who had to continue his trip on a car, threated the driver with consequences because of insubordination.
-------------------------------------------------------

SECOND SOURCE (German) (http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/kaczynski-absturz-was-weiss-der-georgische-praesident-saakaschwili.html):

Translated :

After the crash of Polish President Kaczynski on 10 April Georgian leader Saakashvili and Russian-enemy gives dark hints about the "symbolism" of the disaster.

On 13 March 2010, a month before the crash, beamed from the pro-government TV "Imedi" a fictional documentary, in which the aircraft of the Polish president was assassinated in a bomb ...

In Georgia they seem to have clairvoyant abilities. Already on 13 March 2010, a month before the catastrophe of Smolensk beamed, the government-Imedi television fictional documentary about a Russian invasion of Georgia one of them.

The fact that in the 30-minute, prime-time broadcast only a simulation film was acting, but that was only briefly mentioned in between - but then the tanks were rolling very real.

The simulation of the Georgian Imedi movie reported to contain an amazing piece of prophecy:

According to various media, the report asserts Polish President Lech Kaczynski and Saakashvili's plane crashed after a bomb explosion in that movie.

Almost exactly a month later, on 10 April 2010, the unbelievable and completely improbable happened and Kazcinskys plane crashed for real!

YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP!!!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 14, 2010, 12:55:34 am
I don't wish to brake a party, but:

1. Fire is still burning from some parts of the plane.

2. There is always ammunition and firearms on presidents plane.

3. People are talking to eachother to move from there cuz its still dangerous to be near it.

1+2=3
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 12:57:23 am
Regarding the fog hypothesis:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/10/poland.president.plane.crash/index.html

"The Investigation Committee said the plane, a Tupolev-154, was trying to land in heavy fog. A Russian military official said that air traffic control in Smolensk had tried to divert the plane to another airport because of inclement weather."

"Russian officials on Saturday emphasized that there is no evidence it was responsible for the crash."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 12:58:19 am
I don't wish to brake a party, but:

1. Fire is still burning from some parts of the plane.

2. There is always ammunition and firearms on presidents plane.

3. People are talking to eachother to move from there cuz its still dangerous to be near it.

1+2=3

The sound of a cartridge exploding from a fire is different than the sound of a bullet fired from a handgun. Throw some cartridges into a bonfire; no sonic crack, just a “poof”. Fire a handgun and there is a sonic crack, unless it is at true point blank range so the bullet does not travel through much space. Three of the four shots on this youtube video have a sonic crack so they had to be from bullets exiting a barrel at a speed greater than the speed of sound. The fourth shot, IMHO, was fired at very close range, probably downward, as there is no sonic crack. Also, that fourth shot was after the words "Это лицо, продвигается Это лицо, продвигается" (he's still moving) is heard, if I understand correctly.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 01:01:14 am
Has this happened before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

"Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (KAL 007, KE 007) was a Korean Air Lines civilian airliner that was shot down by Soviet jet interceptors on September 1, 1983, over the Sea of Japan, just west of Sakhalin island over prohibited Soviet airspace. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed, including Lawrence McDonald, a sitting member of the United States Congress. The aircraft was en route from New York City via Anchorage to Seoul when it strayed into prohibited Soviet airspace because of a navigational error. The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident, but later admitted shooting the aircraft down, claiming that it was on a spy mission."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 01:05:57 am
Or more precisely:

This person, this person is moving, moving...

Sounds like they were stuttering, perhaps shocked about it. I need to check the original quote to make sure that it's being translated properly.

The original translation "This person is moving" is the correct one. Gotta be careful with buggy translation software.  :)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 14, 2010, 01:17:10 am
Has this happened before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

"Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (KAL 007, KE 007) was a Korean Air Lines civilian airliner that was shot down by Soviet jet interceptors on September 1, 1983, over the Sea of Japan, just west of Sakhalin island over prohibited Soviet airspace. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed, including Lawrence McDonald, a sitting member of the United States Congress. The aircraft was en route from New York City via Anchorage to Seoul when it strayed into prohibited Soviet airspace because of a navigational error. The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident, but later admitted shooting the aircraft down, claiming that it was on a spy mission."


If there was no fog, then (likely) it was shot down (somehow).  Clean-up crews were then sent to kill any remaining survivors.

End result: no survivors.  Most probable chain of events.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: N.E.P. on April 14, 2010, 01:21:25 am
The original translation "This person is moving" is the correct one. Gotta be careful with buggy translation software.  :)
Thanks for the translations.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Xill on April 14, 2010, 01:32:13 am
The original translation "This person is moving" is the correct one. Gotta be careful with buggy translation software.  :)

Original translation from where? Can we really hear "This person is moving" in that video??? If so we have quite a scandal coming up once the mainstream media wakes up.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 01:34:08 am
Original translation from where? Can we really hear "This person is moving" in that video??? If so we have quite a scandal coming up once the mainstream media wakes up.

We need professional translators to verify this. This was the translation I got from somebody who spoke Russian, apparently.

I've done it ad hoc just to verify it. The problem is, when you retranslate using another language, it sometimes copies the words twice. Hence the apparent stutter talk. (I was trying to get the separate Polish and Czech comments as well, among other languages)

Don't trust a triple-translation through Google Translate. :D

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Xill on April 14, 2010, 01:37:04 am
We need professional translators to verify this. This was the translation I got from somebody who spoke Russian, apparently.

I've done it ad hoc. The problem is, when you retranslate, it sometimes copies the words twice. Hence the apparent stutter talk.

Don't trust a triple-translation through Google Translate. :D

Well, this video sure is strange... I wonder if we'll ever know the truth. We will surely soon see who benefits.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 01:37:54 am
Well, this video sure is strange... I wonder if we'll ever know the truth. We will surely soon see who benefits.

Cui bono!
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: burx on April 14, 2010, 01:42:48 am
It sounds like dented sheet metal popping from either heating up from a fire or cooling down, or someone moving it around.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 14, 2010, 02:03:08 am
Это лицо, продвигается Это лицо, продвигается

Translation

That person, that parson is moving, moving.

I can verify that. Russian is similar to my language.

But i can't find it on video, can somebody mark the time of it?

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 02:14:44 am
Это лицо, продвигается Это лицо, продвигается

Translation

That person, that parson is moving, moving.

I can verify that. Russian is similar to my language.

But i can't find it on video, can somebody mark the time of it?



I think it's the original text that was goofed...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 14, 2010, 02:50:09 am
At 1:14 you can see an older person who is calmly leaving from that place, with his hands in his pockets, after his son was telling him "father we all are leaving, lets go".

If there was an Specnac team sent to that place to eliminate survivors, that person will not be calm like that, and his son and the person who was filming this will not leave that place, and we never be able to see that vid. I think that those people are from around that place (or working near by, see blue working robe on older guy). 
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: gabba2k7 on April 14, 2010, 03:47:24 am
very funny to look how you are creating evidences in order to prove conspiracy :D
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 14, 2010, 04:36:59 am
very funny to look how you are creating evidences in order to prove conspiracy :D

Well, you can see my post here and you will not find that kind of thinking.

There was no shots, thing can produce similar kind of noise when they are burning. No one was telling "That person, that person is moving, moving.", that is somebody's imagination, and that kind of vid couldn't leave that place if there was an FSB (or any other Russian service) presence there. Like for any other similar situation (car crash, etc.), witnesses are to be questioned about it and that vid would be taken like evidence. I only can see one civilian and, his son and the man who was filming, they also are civilians. There is no army or police or FSB there. And there is no "cleaning team".

Except David Icke. He was at a train, with his team, spying on evil reptilians.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 14, 2010, 05:04:03 am
Well, you can see my post here and you will not find that kind of thinking.

There was no shots, thing can produce similar kind of noise when they are burning. No one was telling "That person, that person is moving, moving.", that is somebody's imagination, and that kind of vid couldn't leave that place if there was an FSB (or any other Russian service) presence there. Like for any other similar situation (car crash, etc.), witnesses are to be questioned about it and that vid would be taken like evidence. I only can see one civilian and, his son and the man who was filming, they also are civilians. There is no army or police or FSB there. And there is no "cleaning team".

Except David Icke. He was at a train, with his team, spying on evil reptilians.

There is a serious difference between someone like Icke cashing in on the "conspiracy/new-age culture" and us, simply doubting that the death of the political, financial and military (land, sea, air) leaders of Poland is an accident.

Specially in the current time, when billions in contracts are being played, not even mentioning the new world order financial system they are going for. This, and the fact that that plane was no challenge to land at all, and that it did have all the proper GPS devices to land properly no matter the amount of "fog" you throw at it.

However, releasing a fake video would be a great method to discredit the people who think it was an assassination.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 14, 2010, 05:33:11 am
very funny to look how you are creating evidences in order to prove conspiracy :D
Gabba,

You're in Russia, right?

What do people in Russia think?  Do they think it was just an accident?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Jackson Holly on April 14, 2010, 07:31:52 am


Hey, as card carrying conspiracy theorists it is our job to look at events with a jaundiced eye.
It is the coincidence theorist position, to take everything at face value ... that everything
'just happens' ... that has gotten us into this mess.

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about the methods of NWO/elite deception must
find this at LEAST highly suspicious.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 14, 2010, 07:59:18 am
very funny to look how you are creating evidences in order to prove conspiracy :D

Please enlighten us with your "Coincidence Theory". We are always open to ideas no matter how far fetched they might be.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 14, 2010, 08:50:31 am
fires can burn for a few days, I'm still waiting on a confirmation as to WHEN this was taken, because the looter scenario "fits" w/ this video rather well.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 09:29:54 am
fires can burn for a few days, I'm still waiting on a confirmation as to WHEN this was taken, because the looter scenario "fits" w/ this video rather well.


Certainly, but they had people on the scene, and I remember from crash site footage they had photos without fire burning of the same location. That suggests that they had addressed the fires, which would make sense, since they are recovering bodies and identifying them, and looking for clues like the black boxes.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 09:31:51 am
There is a serious difference between someone like Icke cashing in on the "conspiracy/new-age culture" and us, simply doubting that the death of the political, financial and military (land, sea, air) leaders of Poland is an accident.

Specially in the current time, when billions in contracts are being played, not even mentioning the new world order financial system they are going for. This, and the fact that that plane was no challenge to land at all, and that it did have all the proper GPS devices to land properly no matter the amount of "fog" you throw at it.

However, releasing a fake video would be a great method to discredit the people who think it was an assassination.

The video is authentic. The wreckage in the video matches the plane crash photos precisely. Are you saying that they engineered the wreckage, as an exact copy?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 14, 2010, 09:34:39 am
Well I wish somebody could provide more evidence on this video...time & day of it being shot specifically. Fires can re-start.
No opinion on this quite yet, just seems like people keeping looters away the more I listen and look, and ya know the looters are everywhere w/ todays economics.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 14, 2010, 10:51:07 am
There is a serious difference between someone like Icke cashing in on the "conspiracy/new-age culture" and us, simply doubting that the death of the political, financial and military (land, sea, air) leaders of Poland is an accident.

Specially in the current time, when billions in contracts are being played, not even mentioning the new world order financial system they are going for. This, and the fact that that plane was no challenge to land at all, and that it did have all the proper GPS devices to land properly no matter the amount of "fog" you throw at it.

However, releasing a fake video would be a great method to discredit the people who think it was an assassination.

Thank you, i know difference between someone like Icke and us here, it was a joke. I have strong doubt regarding circumstances of this crash, especially after Sane presented prove about Polish-EU conflict. Cuz of that the name of this thread is "NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro". So, I agree that NATO/NWO/Bankers are behind it. There is no doubt about that. I am strongly opposed that Russians have something whit it.

One thing is certain, there is no way under this sky that Russians would do that on the day when 22.000 Polish officers and soldiers are executed by NKVD, and to do that over their territory, that would be a great mistake.

Russians are trying to expand their influence on Georgia, Kyrgyzstan and other countries from old USSR block to bring them back under their wing. And in the moment when they are one step closer to clean the mess between them and Poland, this was happened. No way Russians are behind it.

Those people in that plane are killed in the worst moment for Russia, in the moment when Russia have big influence in Georgia and Kyrgyzstan.

Georgian Opposition Threatens to Repeat Kyrgyz Uprising (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18581)

US-NATO War Plan Undermined? Kyrgyzstan Upheaval Endangers US Route to Afghanistan (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18561)

Great Power Rivalry in Central Asia: Russia Sends Paratroopers to its Airbase in Kyrgyzstan (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18564)


Let me explain my stand here again.

I don't like Russians. They didn't move finger during NATO bombing of my country. Its not about liking or disliking anyone. Its about motive. Every crime have motive, and i don't see motive for this on Russian side (and i can see strong motive on NATO/NWO/Bankers side). Fallow the money. Who will gain from this mess?

Another thing that i see is:

Constant pressure on Russia by NATO side to provoke conflict.

1. Missile shield, military exercises in Baltic and Black Sea.

Dangerous Crossroads: U.S. Moves Missiles And Troops To Russian Border (http://propagandamatrix.com/forum/index.php/topic,6468.15.html)

2. Sending Heroin from Afghan to Russia, and when Russia says stop with it NATO calmly says no.

3. Moscow Metro bombing done by al-Ciaida.

And now this. Don't you see that NWO is trying to provoke conflict with Russia.

Will we move from this woods and video to the real reasons why NWO is doing this kind of moves on global chessboard?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 01:03:29 pm
Comment from another forum (http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10748&p=40361#p40361):

JEWISH DELEGATION CANCELED JOURNEY ON POLISH PRESIDENT'S PLANE (http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2010/04/jewish-delegation-canceled-journey-on.html)

"A Jewish delegation from Poland, including the American-born Chief Rabbi Michael Schudrich, was spared from certain death by refusing to violate the Sabbath to fly with President Lech Kaczynski...

"The Jewish delegation was supposed to fly with the president, according to Warsaw Rabbi Meir Stembler. 'The delegation canceled its participation after it was understood that that plane was to fly on the Sabbath,' he said." (Observing Sabbath Saved Life of Poland's Chief Rabbi)

Was the death of Poland's President Kaczynski an accident?

This is the question asked by Kurt Nimmo at Infowars.com on 12 April 2010 (Did Global Elite Kill Polish President Kaczynski?)

Kurt Nimmo points out:

1. Poland declined to be a victim of the bankster loan sharking operation.

2. Poland was the only member of the European Union to have experienced growth in 2009.

3. In April 2010, Czech Central Bank Vice Deputy Mojmir Hampl said the IMF fueled Eastern Europe's crisis to create a situation that would compel regional states to request the help from the globalist loan sharking operation.

4. It looks like a pro-euro political leader may replace Kaczynski.

"Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s pro-euro Civic Platform party is likely to cement its grip on power in a presidential election that must now be held by June after President Lech Kaczynski died in a plane crash," reports Bloomberg.

Kaczynski resisted adopting the euro.

Kaczynski was also the last EU leader to sign the Lisbon Treaty,

Kaczynski placed a euro-skeptic ally in charge of the central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek, who was also killed in the crash.


On 11 April 2010, James Buchanan wrote: "Poland was completely sold out by FDR and Churchill at Yalta...

"President Kaczynski had promised to go after Communist murderers, who had killed Poles during the long Communist occupation. Many of those war criminals were Jews..." (Was Polish President Murdered in Staged Plane Crash? Rebel News ...)

On 11 April 2010, Tom Mysiewicz wrote: "In the mid 1930s, Poland was encouraged with false and/or unfulfillable defense promises to goad Germany into starting the Second World War.

"Roosevelt, Churchill and Samuel Untermeyer (Samuel Untermyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) got their war and Poland quickly got overrun and divided by Germany and the USSR.

"On the orders of Stalin and certain Jewish Communist officials, 20,000 Poles–the officers and nobility who were the cream of Poland’s elite–were treacherously murdered at Katyn Forest.

"And the crime was blamed on the Germans, when the Allies knew full well their “ally” had done it.

"I have no doubts the crime was approved at the highest levels in London and Washington (and New York) and this while Polish soldiers bravely gave their lives fighting for the “Allied” cause."
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: endof on April 14, 2010, 01:03:56 pm
MESSAGE TO THE REBELLION: IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE EURO, WE WILL DECAPITATE YOU

Yes, all of us recieved the message loud and clear.

The polish president also delayed the lisbon treaty for quite a long time, the treaty that brought mr van rompuy to power.

He did sign it in the end, under intense pressure no doubt.

This was a message to the resistance, the EUSSR is here.
in a few months the first of the new EU wide Europol millitarised police will be ready for deployment.

I only wish i was joking, just wait until you see them deployed in greece.


"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

FIGHT ON THE PEACEFUL REVOLUTION

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: ImmortalTRUTH on April 14, 2010, 01:20:51 pm
The video is authentic.

(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7900/youtubemp4snapshot00262.jpg)
From the video.
(http://en.rian.ru/images/15854/58/158545850.jpg)
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html)

Is the audio authentic ? is it gunshots ?

We don't know..
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 14, 2010, 01:31:56 pm
Comment from another forum (http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10748&p=40361#p40361):

JEWISH DELEGATION CANCELED JOURNEY ON POLISH PRESIDENT'S PLANE (http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2010/04/jewish-delegation-canceled-journey-on.html)

"A Jewish delegation from Poland, including the American-born Chief Rabbi Michael Schudrich, was spared from certain death by refusing to violate the Sabbath to fly with President Lech Kaczynski...

"The Jewish delegation was supposed to fly with the president, according to Warsaw Rabbi Meir Stembler. 'The delegation canceled its participation after it was understood that that plane was to fly on the Sabbath,' he said." (Observing Sabbath Saved Life of Poland's Chief Rabbi)


http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2010/04/jewish-delegation-canceled-journey-on.html]

if this is indeed true then it means that the flight was secret and it was planned at the last second.

this would allow for an automated weapons system on the border of belarus/russia to possibly be manipulated by NATO/Belarus ptech/war gaming.

that is what happened with the korean flight that was shot down. the flight path was controlled to trigger russian automated anti-aircraft systems.

this would allow NATO to pressure russia with thermal imaging showing proof of possible projectile systems/defense systems taking down the plane.

just one possibility but thanks to that information, it adds more evidence that this flight was secret and finalized at the last second without others knowing.

looking for more specifics on how the plane ride was decided and who knew.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 14, 2010, 01:33:01 pm
The video is authentic.

(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7900/youtubemp4snapshot00262.jpg)
From the video.
(http://en.rian.ru/images/15854/58/158545850.jpg)
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20100412/158546091_3.html)

Is the audio authentic ? is it gunshots ?

We don't know..

again stuff like this just totally bashes the entire 9/11 lie (if nothing else)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 01:38:56 pm
Observing Sabbath Saved Life of Poland’s Chief Rabbi (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136941)
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
IsraelNationalNews.com

A Jewish delegation from Poland, including the American-born Chief Rabbi Michael Schudrich, was spared from certain death by refusing to violate the Sabbath to fly with President Lech Kaczynski.

The president, his wife, his military chief of staff and senior political leaders were killed on Saturday when the plane crashed en route to a Russian city.

The Jewish delegation was supposed to fly with the president, according to Warsaw Rabbi Meir Stembler. “The delegation canceled its participation after it was understood that that plane was to fly on the Sabbath,” he said.

“They planned to say Kaddish [the mourner’s prayer] at the planned commemoration ceremony in a Russian city, marking 70 years since the Soviet murder of 20,000 Poles.

Rabbi Stembler said that President Kaczynski was personally responsible for helping with the construction of a Jewish museum in the location of the former Jewish ghetto in Warsaw and which is to be dedicated in the near future. President Kaczynski helped promote and encourage the building project when he was mayor of Warsaw and continued his efforts as president.

“The relation between the Jewish community and the president was very strong,” the rabbi said. “He took care of all of its needs, not just in words but also in deeds. There were not any major events where he did not honor the community with his presence.”

The crash on Saturday wiped out a large part of the elite establishment of the government, and it is not clear why the government took the risk of allowing all of them to fly on one plane. The pilot, who also died in the crash, was blamed for ignoring Russian air controllers’ advice not to try to land under severe weather conditions.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 14, 2010, 01:47:31 pm
Observing Sabbath Saved Life of Poland’s Chief Rabbi (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136941)
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
IsraelNationalNews.com

A Jewish delegation from Poland, including the American-born Chief Rabbi Michael Schudrich, was spared from certain death by refusing to violate the Sabbath to fly with President Lech Kaczynski.

The president, his wife, his military chief of staff and senior political leaders were killed on Saturday when the plane crashed en route to a Russian city.

The Jewish delegation was supposed to fly with the president, according to Warsaw Rabbi Meir Stembler. “The delegation canceled its participation after it was understood that that plane was to fly on the Sabbath,” he said.

“They planned to say Kaddish [the mourner’s prayer] at the planned commemoration ceremony in a Russian city, marking 70 years since the Soviet murder of 20,000 Poles.

Rabbi Stembler said that President Kaczynski was personally responsible for helping with the construction of a Jewish museum in the location of the former Jewish ghetto in Warsaw and which is to be dedicated in the near future. President Kaczynski helped promote and encourage the building project when he was mayor of Warsaw and continued his efforts as president.

“The relation between the Jewish community and the president was very strong,” the rabbi said. “He took care of all of its needs, not just in words but also in deeds. There were not any major events where he did not honor the community with his presence.”

The crash on Saturday wiped out a large part of the elite establishment of the government, and it is not clear why the government took the risk of allowing all of them to fly on one plane. The pilot, who also died in the crash, was blamed for ignoring Russian air controllers’ advice not to try to land under severe weather conditions.

this was a very, very sophisticated operation, positioning many pieces of cannon fodder in front of the bilderberg bankers and controllers of the planned global recession.

JFK had a few pieces of cannon fodder too...

Lee Harvey Oswald

Castro

Kruschev

Mob

CIA only

LBJ and  big oil only

but now we all know it was the banksters  who gave the final order mainly through the Rockefller/Harriman capos.  All the others had blood on their hands and that causes the cover up to occur (all agree to the "prisoner's dilemma" where they agree and collude to shut up).

Same with 9/11...

osama
terrorists
mossad
neo-cons
wahabbi-ism


but now we all know it was the bilderberg bankers who had the most to gain, their entire agenda had no chance without it and they were able to cover up enron/world com/CIA-Mossad-Saudi-ISI collusion within the US/the missing $2.3 trillion at the pentagon...all were banksters projects that were unraveling.

Now that the Euro is unravelling, they decapitated poland.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: LightCaster on April 14, 2010, 01:55:13 pm
Observing Sabbath Saved Life of Poland’s Chief Rabbi (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136941)
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
IsraelNationalNews.com

A Jewish delegation from Poland, including the American-born Chief Rabbi Michael Schudrich, was spared from certain death by refusing to violate the Sabbath to fly with President Lech Kaczynski.

Gods finger or a phone call from Illuminazis? Whats your bet on it?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 14, 2010, 01:59:07 pm
Gods finger or a phone call from Illuminazis? Whats your bet on it?

well, someone planned the plane to fly on  saturday (they would probably guess the "highest rabbi" would not fly on that day), so who planned it, when was it finalized, this is crucial. and why is their no record ahead of time that the entire capstone of poland was in a fragile airplane flying over a hotbed of military activity east/west border with no one's knowledge?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 02:01:02 pm
well, someone planned the plane to fly on  saturday (they would probably guess the "highest rabbi" would not fly on that day), so who planned it, when was it finalized, this is crucial. and why is their no record ahead of time that the entire capstone of poland was in a fragile airplane flying over a hotbed of military activity east/west border with no one's knowledge?

BTW...were they trying to land at a military airport?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 14, 2010, 02:02:55 pm
BTW...were they trying to land at a military airport?

Yes
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=166259.msg990574#msg990574
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 14, 2010, 02:06:55 pm
BTW...were they trying to land at a military airport?

could you imagine a taliban delegation flying into reagan airport without alerting the US authorities?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 02:46:36 pm
Polish presidential plane disallowed landing at Russian military airport, then mysteriously crashes. Nope, no conspiracy there.

This situation is seriously f**ked up.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 14, 2010, 03:30:43 pm
Polish presidential plane disallowed landing at Russian military airport, then mysteriously crashes. Nope, no conspiracy there.

This situation is seriously f**ked up.

well if they did not tell anyone and if communications were compromised (bloomberg says belarus was communicating, others say russia) how would anyone know what the agenda of the plane was...except the people in on or controlling the plan. who controlled this plan?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 04:03:22 pm
NATOS Secret Armies: Cold War Paramilitaries and Turkey’s Security State (http://www.balkanalysis.com/2006/10/15/nato%E2%80%99s-secret-armies-cold-war-paramilitaries-and-turkey%E2%80%99s-security-state/)
10/15/2006 (Balkanalysis.com)

NATO’S Secret Armies
By Daniele Ganser
Frank Cass (2005), 315 pp.
Reviewed by Ioannis Michaletos

Over the past few years, more and more researchers have delved into the mysterious events that shaped the world during the Cold War era and which have resulted in the most important global political developments. This is the case with Daniele Ganser, who in NATO’S Secret Armies vigorously lays out the evidence relating to NATO’s secret operations, through the establishment of paramilitary forces within its member states.

The book’s structure is such that its 18 chapters cover each country, from Great Britain and the United States to Norway, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Luxembourg, Denmark, Greece, Turkey, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Austria, Portugal, Belgium and Holland. Essentially, the book retells the recurring story of how clandestine military groups, often comprised of right-wing belligerents, including former Nazis and other Fascists, were recruited to form a line of defense in case of Soviet attack, while also to keep potential subversives and Communist sympathizers under the thumb of the NATO security apparatus.

Perhaps the most interesting focus of NATO’S Secret Armies for our readers is how it unveils hidden dimensions of modern Turkey’s history, issues that still haunt the country and have shaped its collective political identity.

Before discussing the Turkish contribution to NATO’s “secret armies,” the Grey Wolves, one has to first devote some attention to the creator of the organization, Arpaslan Turkes. A colonel who played a decisive role in promoting the Contra-guerrilla forces in Turkey, Turkes came into contact with the CIA back in the early 1950’s. The main objective of their cooperation was to manage the creation of a paramilitary force that would operate inside Turkey in case of a Soviet attack. This force would be equipped with the necessary arms and capabilities to initiate a full-scale guerrilla war against the Soviet army, if necessary.

The original plan as devised by NATO and the USA promoted the use of special forces, which would become expert in guerrilla techniques. Similar “black armies” were also witnessed in Italy’s Gladio affair, and in Greece. Those forces gained tremendous unofficial power and were constantly operated as a state within a state in relation to numerous criminal activities such as provocation and terrorism.

In Turkey, the first secret army was called Seferberlik Taktik Kurulu (STK). Its headquarters was situated in the same building where the American military mission to Ankara resided. It is interesting to note that NATO’S Secret Armies is very thorough in its reference of sources, names and locations, leaving no room for any accusations that there is any case of fabrication or misplacement of events. A rough summary of those recounted follows.

In 1959 an agreement between the CIA and the Turkish government placed the Turkish contra-guerrillas as the forefront against internal enemies of the Turkish state. These mostly included members of the political left. However, the original remit of the special team was soon forgotten, and personal ambitions, leading to meddling within the political system; soon appeared. In 1960 a coup d’etat by 38 officers — including Turkes — resulted in the imprisonment of the then-Prime Minister Menderes, and subsequently his condemnation to death, along with other leading political figures.

The Menderes government was considered very liberal at that time and the Turkish secret army, fearful of losing its newly established power, abruptly challenged and defeated the existing political order. In 1965, Turkes established the “party of nationalist action,” Millietsi Hareket Partisi, which operated as a quasi-fascistic party. It was armed with a paramilitary force called the Grey Wolves (Bozkurt). When he died in 1997, Turkes was remembered tearfully by the former Turkish Prime Minister Tansu Ciller, whose vast and ill-begotten wealth ironically has its basis in the social and political upheaval he caused.

The ranks of the contra-guerrillas would soon be swelled by the more hot-blooded representatives of the Grey Wolves, as a civil component in the then-fully military secret army. Their role included domestic counterintelligence and support in case of provocative actions within Turkey. In parallel, other factors of the Turkish state such as the intelligence service (MIT) cooperated closely with the contra-guerrillas, so closely that in fact there was often little to distinguish between their respective operations.

In NATO’S Secret Armies, Ganser moreover reveals the deep connections between the political violence that swept Turkey in the 1970’s and the provocative role of the contra-guerrillas in this unrest. It is assumed that around 5,000 murders were committed by this infamous secret organization, including the 1st of May massacre in Istanbul in 1977, when 38 people were killed in the center of the city by unknown snipers. The author also reveals the inability of the Turkish political class to deal with the issue because of extreme military pressure and the chronic inability of the government and the members of Parliament to exercise control over the state security structure.

In 1980, the time of yet another Turkish coup d’etat, there were around 200,000 members of the Grey Wolves in Turkey, as well as 1,000,000 sympathizers, all playing a pivotal role in establishing military rule in the country. Even though a lot of military leaders were skeptical of their relations with international terrorism, it was too late for an effective action to take place. That period also coincided with the beginning of the Kurdish PKK guerrilla war in 1984, a conflict which ironically gave plentiful of opportunities for the paramilitary force — never having been required for its original, anti-Soviet purposes — to excel on its natural turf.

At the same time, this conflict also presented the opportunity for the expansion of heroin smuggling, an age-old practice in the tri-national borders between Turkey, Iraq and Iran. This to some extent complicated relations between Turkey and the West, since the bulk of the narcotics were exported into Europe via numerous channels, all more or less controlled by the Turkish secret services.

That said, it is worthwhile to mention the complexity of the contra-guerrillas’ activity within the international criminal network that in essence was connected with international terrorism. A network of gigantic proportions was created based around contra-guerrilla activities, which resulted in a plethora of criminal activities around the world.

The 1990’s, and the crumbling of the Soviet bloc, meant a sort of apocalypse for NATO’s secret armies. European paramilitary forces quickly disbanded along with the Soviet threat. In Turkey, however, as Ganser explains, this was not the case. It would take the infamous “Sousourlouk” incident for Turkey to reveal the widespread network that encompassed organized crime, terrorists and the paramilitary force that had outlived its ostensible purpose. Nevertheless, the hypothesis that the contra-guerrillas’ simply continued to operate under new branding is plausible.

On the whole, NATO’S Secret Armies can be considered a milestone in the history of “black operations” in post-war Europe, and especially in light of its focus on Turkey. The wealth of resources and references that are annotated in the pages of this engaging book will persuade even the most critical of researchers to spend substantial time in retrieving these little-known facts and figures that have shaped vital parts of our modern history. Most importantly, in the big picture, is that NATO’S Secret Armies reveals a world where ideology and national interest are used in order to cover up something much more important in our civilized society — profit, whether legal or illegal.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 04:09:14 pm
NATO's Secret Armies: Operation GLADIO and terrorism in Western Europe

[BitLet Webtorrent (http://www.bitlet.org/?torrent=http%3A%2F%2Fisohunt.com%2Fdownload%2F94441313%2F%2522nato%2527s%2Bsecret%2Barmies%2522.torrent)] [Torrent (http://isohunt.com/download/94441313/%22nato%27s+secret+armies%22.torrent)]
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 04:22:02 pm
FLASHBACK: AUGUST 2008
Russia threatens nuclear attack on Poland over US missile shield deal
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2566005/Russia-threatens-nuclear-attack-on-Poland-over-US-missile-shield-deal.html)

Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister, hinted that the US had pledged to back Warsaw in the event of Russian aggression towards Poland. He said that he only agreed to host the US defence shield on the condition that the US agreed to help augment Poland's defences with Patriot missiles, which are intended to ward off any threat from Russia. "We have crossed the Rubicon," he said.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: chrisfromchi on April 14, 2010, 05:08:15 pm
okay my polish buddy whos family been keeping track of all this since it happened mentioned to me about a :

3rd Black box. one that only the polish can open and translate. I dunno what that really means thats what he told me over the phone.

has anyone heard anything about a 3rd black box?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 14, 2010, 05:28:29 pm
FLASHBACK: AUGUST 2008
Russia threatens nuclear attack on Poland over US missile shield deal
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2566005/Russia-threatens-nuclear-attack-on-Poland-over-US-missile-shield-deal.html)

Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister, hinted that the US had pledged to back Warsaw in the event of Russian aggression towards Poland. He said that he only agreed to host the US defence shield on the condition that the US agreed to help augment Poland's defences with Patriot missiles, which are intended to ward off any threat from Russia. "We have crossed the Rubicon," he said.

wow!

so the only person pushing for more confrontation between Russia/West [rather than dependent on one or the other as a nanny owner] was not on the plane?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 14, 2010, 05:42:23 pm
okay my polish buddy whos family been keeping track of all this since it happened mentioned to me about a :

3rd Black box. one that only the polish can open and translate. I dunno what that really means thats what he told me over the phone.

has anyone heard anything about a 3rd black box?

Russia: Third black box found
2010-04-13 19:33

Moscow – A third flight recorder was found at the site of the plane crash that killed Poland's president Lech Kaczynski and will be analysed in Poland at Warsaw's request, a Russian aviation official said on Tuesday.

"Yesterday (Monday) an additional recorder, of Polish make, was found," said Tatyana Anodina, a representative of the Interstate Aviation Committee, which regulates civil aviation in Russia and other former Soviet republics.

"At the request of the Polish side, the decision was made to analyse it in Poland, with the participation of Russian specialists," she said at a meeting of a government commission investigating Saturday's disaster.

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Russia-Third-black-box-found--20100413



From PPRuNe Forums:

Quote
The third black box - registering vibrations of the engine - will be examined in Poland because it was invented by Polish engineers. - Third recorder, which was sent for examination to Poland, monitors and records, in addition to the standard FDR, the vibration on the engine bearings and suspension.

This monitoring and recording system was developed for, and installed on the
notorious Soloviev engines by the Polish engineers after the accidents
of the Il-62, using the same engines as tu-154.

The system was supposed to detect and register any abnormalities in the
turbine parameters to prevent and avoid the uncontained engine failures, for which
the engines were notorious.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/411701-polish-government-tu154m-crash-post5633091.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 14, 2010, 05:54:04 pm

New Photo

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_06bGa1QkqOY/S8VlKnsqi2I/AAAAAAAADqw/Sx9JRqQnqP8/%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B52.jpg)

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/411701-polish-government-tu154m-crash-29.html#post5633525
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 14, 2010, 05:59:38 pm

It looks like the plane really did clip a lot of trees when it came in.

This would seem to eliminate the possibility of a catastrophic explosion.

It is looking more like a remote control or jammer style job.

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_06bGa1QkqOY/S8T2LmScJEI/AAAAAAAADnw/nbLdhmdUv5c/s640/IMG_8180_1.jpg)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_06bGa1QkqOY/S8T2GQHBleI/AAAAAAAADng/IUe-r4u7Sn8/s640/IMG_8167_1.jpg)

More images here:
http://picasaweb.google.ru/Amlmtr/MWzNeJ#5459758998359442098
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 14, 2010, 06:01:41 pm

Here is the respective experience of the flight crew, in the air and in a Tu-154M.

- (captain) kpt. pil. Arkadiusz PROTASIUK - total time: 3528h (on Tu-154M - 2937h)
- (first officer) mjr pil. Robert GRZYWNA - total time: 1939h (on Tu-154M - 506h)
- (navigator) por. pil. Artur ZIĘTEK - total time: 1069h (on Tu-154M - 59h, as navigator)
- (flight engineer) chor. Andrzej MICHALAK - total time 330h

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/411701-polish-government-tu154m-crash-29.html#post5633874
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 14, 2010, 06:03:40 pm
Trees clipped, yes.
 But, that could also be a shoot-down, too, but so far no reports of missile or anti-aircraft, so some sort of PTECH-style remote override does seem likely.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Jackson Holly on April 14, 2010, 06:09:08 pm


I haven't seen any news on what is revealed by the 'black boxes' ... has anyone else?

Is that info going to be manipulated? What's taking so long?

Also ... assuming this was a political decapitation by forces within the NWO, I wonder
who in Poland was involved? And if they will have control of the black box 'investigation' ...

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Viper on April 14, 2010, 06:16:59 pm

..Also ... assuming this was a political decapitation by forces within the NWO, I wonder
who in Poland was involved? And if they will have control of the black box 'investigation' ...
(http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_roots_of_evil/001_supremecourt.gif)

Well they did manage to set up a monument to and enemy country without much fuss in Israel.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 06:19:15 pm

I haven't seen any news on what is revealed by the 'black boxes' ... has anyone else?

Is that info going to be manipulated? What's taking so long?

Also ... assuming this was a political decapitation by forces within the NWO, I wonder
who in Poland was involved? And if they will have control of the black box 'investigation' ...



I heard that they were both in good condition, and confiscated by Russian authorities.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 14, 2010, 06:20:05 pm
If Tusk's gov't. finds anything they just might sit on it as it would call into question their legitimacy.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Piltdown Man on April 14, 2010, 06:27:22 pm
what about able's suggestion about next day looting???....anybody got timestamp on this?

fires wouldn't be burning next day...
find out what time the train goes by, there's a train whistle in the background
Smolensk train timetable anyone?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 06:35:28 pm
fires wouldn't be burning next day...
find out what time the train goes by, there's a train whistle in the background
Smolensk train timetable anyone?

Train Timetable (10.10.2009)
http://www.rowingbrest.by/page-316-en.htm

Train #307
Smolensk - Brest
Departure: Minsk
Departure Time: 22.48
Arrival: Brest
Arrival Time: 8.34
When: daily
Trip time: 10.10

Train #308
Brest - Smolensk
Departure: Brest
Departure Time: 20.34
Arrival: Minsk
Arrival Time: 6.07
When: daily
Trip time: 09:55
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Piltdown Man on April 14, 2010, 06:44:29 pm
here's how CFR Polish pres likely replacement is connected:

http://www.muckety.com/Andrzej-Olechowski/2681.muckety (http://www.muckety.com/Andrzej-Olechowski/2681.muckety)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 06:47:21 pm
It would most likely have to be a cargo train, seeing as how the passenger trains are not operating apparently at that time.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Piltdown Man on April 14, 2010, 06:49:56 pm
Femacamper wrote:
Quote
From:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm

The Russian emergencies ministry told Itar-Tass news agency the plane crashed at 1056 Moscow time (0656 GMT).

The train from Smolensk/Minsk would have left at 10:48. So the train coming by around then would confirm the timeline of the video perfectly, since the crash site is just outside Smolensk.

that seems likely to be the train..
And those fires look too big to be a day later...surely the nearby airport would have plenty of equipment handy to put out fires burning up a plane carrying important people pretty quickly, certainly before nightfall.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 06:55:48 pm
Femacamper wrote:
that seems likely to be the train..
And those fires look too big to be a day later...surely the nearby airport would have plenty of equipment handy to put out fires burning up a plane carrying important people pretty quickly, certainly before nightfall.

Mixed up the AM and the PM there...no, if it's a train (likely) it's a cargo train of some kind.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Piltdown Man on April 14, 2010, 06:57:03 pm
here's how CFR Polish pres likely replacement is connected:

http://www.muckety.com/Andrzej-Olechowski/2681.muckety (http://www.muckety.com/Andrzej-Olechowski/2681.muckety)

Olechowsky, who just threw in his hat to replace Kaczynski, interestingly, is big in Textron, aerospace intelligence/homeland security

Textron Systems  http://www.textron.com/textron_businesses/index.jsp (http://www.textron.com/textron_businesses/index.jsp)

Textron Systems [4] segment has been providing innovative solutions to the defense, intelligence, homeland security and aerospace communities for over 50 years. Textron Systems includes AAI Corporation, Lycoming Engines, Overwatch, Textron Defense Systems, and Textron Marine & Land Systems.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Piltdown Man on April 14, 2010, 07:01:16 pm
also, on the subject of fires, compare this video with the amateur one up on infowars:
this is supposedly the first on-site (sanctioned) vid taken, and the fires are all nearly out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nucwf6DvpG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nucwf6DvpG4)

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 07:03:01 pm
also, on the subject of fires, compare this video with the amateur one up on infowars:
this is supposedly the first on-site (sanctioned) vid taken, and the fires are all nearly out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nucwf6DvpG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nucwf6DvpG4)



By that time it would have been later. Perhaps they were at the end of their burning.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 07:03:40 pm
Olechowsky, who just threw in his hat to replace Kaczynski, interestingly, is big in Textron, aerospace intelligence/homeland security

Textron Systems  http://www.textron.com/textron_businesses/index.jsp (http://www.textron.com/textron_businesses/index.jsp)

Textron Systems [4] segment has been providing innovative solutions to the defense, intelligence, homeland security and aerospace communities for over 50 years. Textron Systems includes AAI Corporation, Lycoming Engines, Overwatch, Textron Defense Systems, and Textron Marine & Land Systems.


Good now everyone in Poland is getting bio-chips sooner or later I bet.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 14, 2010, 07:57:14 pm
Good now everyone in Poland is getting bio-chips sooner or later I bet.

the dead president exposed the swine poison vaccine and was against microchipping.

yeah fog, sure it was fog, nothing to see move along
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 14, 2010, 09:00:16 pm
the dead president exposed the swine poison vaccine and was against microchipping.

yeah fog, sure it was fog, nothing to see move along

They'll probably blame an upcoming al-CIA-da nuke attack on fog...

We had their passport information, we were going to arrest them at the border...but there was this fog...

FOG, THE UNIVERSAL EXCUSE!!!

Just like a magician doing a magic trick...POOF! A little fog covers up everything...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: N.E.P. on April 15, 2010, 12:48:23 am
Katyn II - How Satanists Say "We're Sorry"


By Henry Makow, Ph.D.
http://www.henrymakow.com/katyn_ii_-_how_satanists_say_w_1.html

In April 1940, the Soviet NKVD massacred the cream of Poland's nationalist and Christian intelligentsia in the Katyn Forest and elsewhere. They were slaughtered because they wouldn't agree to join the Communists in fronting a future occupation of Poland.

Seventy years later, on April 10, 2010, the heirs of the NKVD, who still run Russia, probably finished the job. They probably engineered a plane crash which killed the Polish President, the heads of the army and navy, the secret service and much of the patriotic wing of the Polish government. Thus they neatly eliminated one more obstacle to Satanic world  government which is descending on the planet like a dreaded darkness.

This is how Satanists say, "We're sorry!" By repeating the outrage, again and again, until they are finally stopped.

The grounds for suspicion are numerous.

1. The plane was Russian and had recently been "refurbished" in Russia.
One blogger, a pilot, wrote, "Circumstances, however, point to a major accident or intentional blocking of the control system. Such a blockade may be intentionally installed so that it launched at a release from the chassis or flaps on the line immediately before landing." (Most information is from articles linked on Jane Burgermeister's site.)

2.  As in the Pentagon attack, where there was no wreckage, there were no bodies to be found. Here is the YouTube. If the plane was at tree height, there would have been survivors. There would have been bodies. There would been luggage. As with the 9-11 passengers, it is possible the occupants were taken off the plane somewhere else, held or murdered. On Saturday, Russian authorities said all bodies had been found. On Monday the story had changed.

A Polish observer wrote: "Given the unlikelihood of Poland's top political and military leaders flying on the same plan, the execution or kidnapping of some of them in Poland cannot be ruled out. To explain their deaths to the general public, their names could have been added to the passenger list. According to media, only 14 bodies could be identified in Moscow with the rest being too badly burned."

A Polish friend wrote to me:"There is no sign of even one body or blood, the Polish cameraman thought that the plane was empty and when he was walking and recording it, he just noticed in shock that the plane was Polish but still didn't know it was President's plane.
 
"The plane was very low, at the level of trees but they could recognize only 14 bodies, the rest was shattered into pieces or burnt and needed DNA testing.
 
"They never called any ambulances, no doctors, only one fire engine and immediately they stated that nobody survived.In this video there is nobody searching for bodies, nobody looking if any people needed help, just fire engine and quite quickly coffins were sent. They said first that all the bodies were found and then next day, that only 14 could be recognized and they were still searching for bodies. There is lie after lie. Most of the people on the plane were the president's supporters and belonged to his party, being in strong opposition to prime minister who wasn't there.The cameraman was caught and pushed away from the place, he said later on TV that there was no chance there could be over 80 bodies ( which was cut off later from TV interview), he hasn't seen even one."

3. The entourage was supposed to travel by train. Suddenly the plans were changed and the generals were induced to join the group.

4. Eye witnesses heard explosions. A bomb? Another said the fog appeared just before the landing and quickly dispersed afterward. The Russians claimed the pilot didn't speak Russian which turned out to be a lie. The New York Times peddled the story that  the President made the pilot land against his better judgment. This is the same New York Times that hid Stalin's mass murders from the American people.


My Polish friend writes: "Others say clearly about hearing the noise like from a bomb exploding and then silence.Besides, if there are awful conditions the plane is not allowed to land and the airport is closed for landing.
 
"It seems, that they were just normally trying to land with no worries and problems and suddenly something happened with the plane that lead all of them to death.
 
"The most valuable, christian and patriotic head of Poland has been wiped out with one blow, now the way is free, nobody will interrupt big brother any more."

I don't know how the Satanists pulled off 9-11 but I know the official story is not true. The same applies here. Accidents like this don't happen by accident. In one stroke, the globalist Masons, who are behind Putin as well as Obama, removed a thorn in their side.

Yes the Poles are in Afghanistan, but they had been steering an independent course on the Euro and the EU, and they rejected the swine flu vaccine and hysteria.

By virtue of its Catholic heritage,  Poland is one of the last bastions of civilization in Europe. This will make the struggle of the Polish people, and all those resisting satanic and globalist enslavement, all the more difficult.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 15, 2010, 01:10:36 am
I thought Satanism meant never having to say you're sorry.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 15, 2010, 05:40:57 am
Katyn II - How Satanists Say "We're Sorry"


By Henry Makow, Ph.D.
http://www.henrymakow.com/katyn_ii_-_how_satanists_say_w_1.html

In April 1940, the Soviet NKVD massacred the cream of Poland's nationalist and Christian intelligentsia in the Katyn Forest and elsewhere. They were slaughtered because they wouldn't agree to join the Communists in fronting a future occupation of Poland.

Seventy years later, on April 10, 2010, the heirs of the NKVD, who still run Russia, probably finished the job. They probably engineered a plane crash which killed the Polish President, the heads of the army and navy, the secret service and much of the patriotic wing of the Polish government. Thus they neatly eliminated one more obstacle to Satanic world  government which is descending on the planet like a dreaded darkness.

This is how Satanists say, "We're sorry!" By repeating the outrage, again and again, until they are finally stopped.

The grounds for suspicion are numerous.

1. The plane was Russian and had recently been "refurbished" in Russia.
One blogger, a pilot, wrote, "Circumstances, however, point to a major accident or intentional blocking of the control system. Such a blockade may be intentionally installed so that it launched at a release from the chassis or flaps on the line immediately before landing." (Most information is from articles linked on Jane Burgermeister's site.)

2.  As in the Pentagon attack, where there was no wreckage, there were no bodies to be found. Here is the YouTube. If the plane was at tree height, there would have been survivors. There would have been bodies. There would been luggage. As with the 9-11 passengers, it is possible the occupants were taken off the plane somewhere else, held or murdered. On Saturday, Russian authorities said all bodies had been found. On Monday the story had changed.

A Polish observer wrote: "Given the unlikelihood of Poland's top political and military leaders flying on the same plan, the execution or kidnapping of some of them in Poland cannot be ruled out. To explain their deaths to the general public, their names could have been added to the passenger list. According to media, only 14 bodies could be identified in Moscow with the rest being too badly burned."

A Polish friend wrote to me:"There is no sign of even one body or blood, the Polish cameraman thought that the plane was empty and when he was walking and recording it, he just noticed in shock that the plane was Polish but still didn't know it was President's plane.
 
"The plane was very low, at the level of trees but they could recognize only 14 bodies, the rest was shattered into pieces or burnt and needed DNA testing.
 
"They never called any ambulances, no doctors, only one fire engine and immediately they stated that nobody survived.In this video there is nobody searching for bodies, nobody looking if any people needed help, just fire engine and quite quickly coffins were sent. They said first that all the bodies were found and then next day, that only 14 could be recognized and they were still searching for bodies. There is lie after lie. Most of the people on the plane were the president's supporters and belonged to his party, being in strong opposition to prime minister who wasn't there.The cameraman was caught and pushed away from the place, he said later on TV that there was no chance there could be over 80 bodies ( which was cut off later from TV interview), he hasn't seen even one."

3. The entourage was supposed to travel by train. Suddenly the plans were changed and the generals were induced to join the group.

4. Eye witnesses heard explosions. A bomb? Another said the fog appeared just before the landing and quickly dispersed afterward. The Russians claimed the pilot didn't speak Russian which turned out to be a lie. The New York Times peddled the story that  the President made the pilot land against his better judgment. This is the same New York Times that hid Stalin's mass murders from the American people.


My Polish friend writes: "Others say clearly about hearing the noise like from a bomb exploding and then silence.Besides, if there are awful conditions the plane is not allowed to land and the airport is closed for landing.
 
"It seems, that they were just normally trying to land with no worries and problems and suddenly something happened with the plane that lead all of them to death.
 
"The most valuable, christian and patriotic head of Poland has been wiped out with one blow, now the way is free, nobody will interrupt big brother any more."

I don't know how the Satanists pulled off 9-11 but I know the official story is not true. The same applies here. Accidents like this don't happen by accident. In one stroke, the globalist Masons, who are behind Putin as well as Obama, removed a thorn in their side.

Yes the Poles are in Afghanistan, but they had been steering an independent course on the Euro and the EU, and they rejected the swine flu vaccine and hysteria.

By virtue of its Catholic heritage,  Poland is one of the last bastions of civilization in Europe. This will make the struggle of the Polish people, and all those resisting satanic and globalist enslavement, all the more difficult.

Makow always uses like 80% truth and 20% misinfo IMO.

Notice the following statements:

1] "In one stroke, the globalist Masons, who are behind Putin as well as Obama, removed a thorn in their side."

Unlike most of the article which is fact based, this statement is a huge leep without evidence. It may indeed be true, but he gives evidence of the other stuff but not this part. I do think it is an area worth pursuing to see how aligned Putin is to the Eurocrats NWO objective. I think especially because of this incident, it is very important to understand if a new "Hitler-Stalin" agreement had been established in prep for another great war.



2] "Seventy years later, on April 10, 2010, the heirs of the NKVD, who still run Russia, probably finished the job."

He NLP's an assuption about the heirs still running Russia, that is a stretch to say the least.

The article seems to focus on Russia but also mentions the issue with the Euro which is good, but the NLP leaves the reader focused on Russia mainly to the tie in with Katyn for emotional response. He fails to give the history of false flags which uses dates often to direct a narrative towards a patsy/target group. This is apparant in the OK City False Flag.

I think it is good that the "fog" theory is torn apart and would like to know more about the assumed items he mentions.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 15, 2010, 08:53:38 am
The wreckage in the crash seemed a little spread out for a plane that clipped into a tree.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: adissenter2 on April 15, 2010, 10:54:47 am

First minutes after Polish President plane crash...Amateur footage...Shots in the background???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y)

Quote
Among the identified victims of the presidential plane crash near Smolensk two were not on the list of passengers - lenta.ru portal informs, citing the Interfax news agency. Gave similar information portal newsru.com, citing a source in the Moscow headquarters, where he assisted the families of the victims of the disaster. Russian Ministry for emergency situations said they killed 96 people, and not the 97th. According to the caller's agent, on Tuesday evening 64 people were diagnosed, while two bodies have been identified, "conditionally". It is not known whether a further two people who were on board, but not included in the list of passengers or the crew or cabin crew.

No statement on the event details.

In turn, the Russian ministry for emergency situations said that the government in a plane crash near Smolensk aircraft killed 96 people. - About 97 victims are not confirmed - to inform the representative of the Ministry Jeliena Chernova. - Killed 96 people: 88 passengers and 8 crew members - she added.  Rumors about the 97 victims of the presidential aircraft accident occurred yesterday.

Polish flown today to the 32 coffins with the remains of victims of the disaster. Identification procedure, which began on April 11, continues. Specialists from the Russian Centre for Forensic Medicine, carried out by investigating DNA of the dead in the crash. In our center we have the latest technology, but according to the procedures can not be completed before testing April 21 - said a representative of the facility, which relies on agency RIA Novosti.

Here is a video making its rounds on youtube which was taken justminutes after the plane crash.  In the background, you can clearly hear 4 gunshots.  What is this about?

http://www.newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3186/Polish-Plane-Crash-Two-of-the-identified-bodies-were-not-on-the-list-of-passengers.aspx (http://www.newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3186/Polish-Plane-Crash-Two-of-the-identified-bodies-were-not-on-the-list-of-passengers.aspx)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 15, 2010, 12:16:26 pm
First minutes after Polish President plane crash...Amateur footage...Shots in the background???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y)

http://www.newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3186/Polish-Plane-Crash-Two-of-the-identified-bodies-were-not-on-the-list-of-passengers.aspx (http://www.newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3186/Polish-Plane-Crash-Two-of-the-identified-bodies-were-not-on-the-list-of-passengers.aspx)

That would explain the gunshots...
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 15, 2010, 01:30:00 pm


Smolensk crash witnesses come forward with official story key points: ..."no chance of survivors"... "visibility of no more then 50 meters"

Tv reported the crash 20 minutes later?! ..."I found out what happened only 20 minutes later when I turned on the tv"...

Sample 1
Smolensk crash: Locals eyewitness Kaczynski plane coming down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OytAQFCkFs&feature=related

Reminds me of this video...

Sample 2
Who is this man? 9-11 official story started minutes after.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0wHeekgPqk
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 15, 2010, 01:31:38 pm
First minutes after Polish President plane crash...Amateur footage...Shots in the background???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y)

http://www.newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3186/Polish-Plane-Crash-Two-of-the-identified-bodies-were-not-on-the-list-of-passengers.aspx (http://www.newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3186/Polish-Plane-Crash-Two-of-the-identified-bodies-were-not-on-the-list-of-passengers.aspx)

and this is an actual story with sources?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 15, 2010, 01:39:38 pm
and this is an actual story with sources?

Yes.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiadomosci.onet.pl%2F2154992%2C12%2Cdwoch_zidentyfikowanych_cial_nie_bylo_na_liscie_pasazerow%2Citem.html&sl=pl&tl=en

Two of the Identified Bodies were not on the list of passengers?

Plane Crash Lech Kaczynski
PAP
http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/2154992,12,dwoch_zidentyfikowanych_cial_nie_bylo_na_liscie_pasazerow,item.html

Among the identified victims of the presidential plane crash near Smolensk two were not on the list of passengers - lenta.ru portal informs, citing the Interfax news agency. Gave similar information portal newsru.com, citing a source in the Moscow headquarters, where he assisted the families of the victims of the disaster. Russian Ministry for emergency situations said they killed 96 people, and not the 97th.

(HENCE THE DISPARITY IN THE NUMBERS KILLED)

According to the caller's agent, on Tuesday evening 64 people were diagnosed, while two bodies have been identified, "conditionally". It is not known whether a further two people who were on board, but not included in the list of passengers or the crew or cabin crew.

No statement on the event details.

In turn, the Russian ministry for emergency situations said that the government in a plane crash near Smolensk aircraft killed 96 people. - About 97 victims are not confirmed - to inform the representative of the Ministry Jeliena Chernova. - Killed 96 people: 88 passengers and 8 crew members - added. Rumors about the 97 victims of the presidential airplane accident occurred yesterday.

Polish flown today to the 32 coffins with the remains of victims of the disaster. Identification procedure, which began on April 11, continues. Specialists from the Russian Centre for Forensic Medicine, carried out by examining the DNA of the dead in the crash. - In our center we have the latest technology, but according to the procedures can not be completed before testing April 21 - said a representative of the facility, which relies on agency RIA Novosti.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 15, 2010, 01:52:44 pm
Yes.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiadomosci.onet.pl%2F2154992%2C12%2Cdwoch_zidentyfikowanych_cial_nie_bylo_na_liscie_pasazerow%2Citem.html&sl=pl&tl=en

Two of the Identified Bodies were not on the list of passengers?

Plane Crash Lech Kaczynski
PAP
http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/2154992,12,dwoch_zidentyfikowanych_cial_nie_bylo_na_liscie_pasazerow,item.html

Among the identified victims of the presidential plane crash near Smolensk two were not on the list of passengers - lenta.ru portal informs, citing the Interfax news agency. Gave similar information portal newsru.com, citing a source in the Moscow headquarters, where he assisted the families of the victims of the disaster. Russian Ministry for emergency situations said they killed 96 people, and not the 97th.

(HENCE THE DISPARITY IN THE NUMBERS KILLED)

According to the caller's agent, on Tuesday evening 64 people were diagnosed, while two bodies have been identified, "conditionally". It is not known whether a further two people who were on board, but not included in the list of passengers or the crew or cabin crew.

No statement on the event details.

In turn, the Russian ministry for emergency situations said that the government in a plane crash near Smolensk aircraft killed 96 people. - About 97 victims are not confirmed - to inform the representative of the Ministry Jeliena Chernova. - Killed 96 people: 88 passengers and 8 crew members - added. Rumors about the 97 victims of the presidential airplane accident occurred yesterday.

Polish flown today to the 32 coffins with the remains of victims of the disaster. Identification procedure, which began on April 11, continues. Specialists from the Russian Centre for Forensic Medicine, carried out by examining the DNA of the dead in the crash. - In our center we have the latest technology, but according to the procedures can not be completed before testing April 21 - said a representative of the facility, which relies on agency RIA Novosti.

thanks, there must be an official statement backing this up soon.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: N.E.P. on April 15, 2010, 02:15:24 pm
I thought Satanism meant never having to say you're sorry.

 ;D

Makow always uses like 80% truth and 20% misinfo IMO.

Notice the following statements:

1] "In one stroke, the globalist Masons, who are behind Putin as well as Obama, removed a thorn in their side."

Unlike most of the article which is fact based, this statement is a huge leep without evidence. It may indeed be true, but he gives evidence of the other stuff but not this part. I do think it is an area worth pursuing to see how aligned Putin is to the Eurocrats NWO objective. I think especially because of this incident, it is very important to understand if a new "Hitler-Stalin" agreement had been established in prep for another great war.



2] "Seventy years later, on April 10, 2010, the heirs of the NKVD, who still run Russia, probably finished the job."

He NLP's an assuption about the heirs still running Russia, that is a stretch to say the least.

The article seems to focus on Russia but also mentions the issue with the Euro which is good, but the NLP leaves the reader focused on Russia mainly to the tie in with Katyn for emotional response. He fails to give the history of false flags which uses dates often to direct a narrative towards a patsy/target group. This is apparant in the OK City False Flag.

I think it is good that the "fog" theory is torn apart and would like to know more about the assumed items he mentions.

yeah, he has a tendency to embellish a little. He's a good writer though.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Dig on April 15, 2010, 02:24:35 pm
;D

yeah, he has a tendency to embellish a little. He's a good writer though.

great writer, that i think is part of the problem because if he just stayed on point with his great use of sourced info throughout, i think he would get a wider audience, and the articles would be more focused towards the elites rather than sub groups. of course i do the same dang thing, but unlike him,  i am a terrible writer ; )
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Jackson Holly on April 16, 2010, 02:50:41 pm



(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg148/evinyl/PrisonPlanetForum/Plane-crash-in-Smolensk-R-001.jpg)
Wreckage from the plane crash that killed Poland's president,
Lech Kaczynski. Photograph: Sipa Press/Rex Features



Polish plane crash: pilots were not pressured to land

Black box analysis dispels rumours that passengers on
President Lech Kaczynski's plane ordered pilots to land in fog


    * Luke Harding in Moscow
    * guardian.co.uk, Thursday 15 April 2010 15.04 BST

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/15/polish-plane-crash-lech-kaczynksi (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/15/polish-plane-crash-lech-kaczynksi)

Russian investigators said today the black box retrieved from Saturday's devastating plane crash that killed Poland's president, Lech Kaczynski, did not provide any evidence that the pilots had been pressured to land.

Officials said transcripts of conversations from inside the cockpit rebutted widespread theories that the Polish delegation had insisted the pilot land, despite heavy fog at Smolensk airport.

"There is no confirmation that any of the high-ranking passengers ordered the pilots to land near Smolensk. The flight recorder, whose tapes are being deciphered, did not register any pressure on crew members," a source close to the commission investigating the crash told the Russian news agency Interfax.

This week Poland's former prime minister Leszek Miller told the Guardian he thought Kaczynski may have personally contributed to the accident by insisting the pilots land in Smolensk in western Russia. Air traffic control on the ground had told the delegation to divert the plane to either Moscow or Minsk because of low visibility.

Kaczynski had been determined to reach Smolensk to attend a memorial service on the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, Miller said.

"The president so wanted to be there. The pilot knew this and so they accepted the risk and in the process lost everything," the former social democratic prime minister said on Sunday.

Russian investigators said the most compelling explanation for the crash remained pilot error. They said the crew knew Smolensk's military Severny airfield was not equipped with a modern landing navigation system, unlike international airports. "The Polish side was properly informed about this well in advance," the source said.

Initial Russian reports had said that president's Tupulov plane attempted to land three times - and that on its fourth attempt it clipped a copse of trees between 500 to 700 metres short of the runway, and immediately broke up. Today, however, they confirmed there had been only one - disastrous - attempt to land. There were no survivors. Russian TV showed pictures of the upended wing and smouldering fuselage. Small fires burned in woods shrouded in fog.

Russia said it had formally handed over the black boxes to Poland. It also returned personal belongings and documents belonging to President Kaczynski, which were retrieved from the crash site.

The catastrophe also killed the president's wife, Maria, and dozens of top officials from Poland's military and clergy, as well as historians, Solidarity activists, and senior government servants.

Forensic investigators have so far identified 70 of the 96 victims.

The bodies of the Polish president and his wife are lying in state at the presidential palace in Warsaw. A state funeral will be held in Krakow on Sunday, with the US president, Barack Obama, and his Russian counterpart, Dmitry Medvedev, among the attendees.

• This article was updated on 16 April 2010. The original referred to earlier Russian reports that the Polish plane tried to land three times before its fourth and final attempt. This information has been updated to include a new Russian report on 15 April stating that there had been a single attempt.

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 16, 2010, 05:02:02 pm

FROM THE PROFESSIONAL PILOTS RUMOUR NETWORK FORUM

To me that's just a minor detail in the full picture. The real questions still remain to be answered:

- Why was this approach commenced at all with all numbers firmly below legal minima?
- Why was the airport not formally closed, when clearly the criteria for continued safe operations were not met? (a stark contrast to the mass hysteria over Europe at present )

Plenty of speculation on both, but still no official word...

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/411701-polish-government-tu154m-crash-34.html#post5638742
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 16, 2010, 05:12:58 pm
A good article that sums up a lot of the information and puts the pieces together a little bit more:

What is the conspiracy with the Polish Plane Crash? How about these facts... (http://newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3149/What-is-the-conspiracy-with-the-Polish-Plane-Crash-How-about-these-facts.aspx)

Polish Plane Crash: Two of the identified bodies were not on the list of passengers? (http://newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3186/Polish-Plane-Crash-Two-of-the-identified-bodies-were-not-on-the-list-of-passengers.aspx)2010 Grupa Onet.pl SA (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiadomosci.onet.pl%2F2154992%2C12%2Cdwoch_zidentyfikowanych_cial_nie_bylo_na_liscie_pasazerow%2Citem.html&sl=pl&tl=en)

Among the identified victims of the presidential plane crash near Smolensk two were not on the list of passengers - lenta.ru portal informs, citing the Interfax news agency. Gave similar information portal newsru.com, citing a source in the Moscow headquarters, where he assisted the families of the victims of the disaster. Russian Ministry for emergency situations said they killed 96 people, and not the 97th. According to the caller's agent, on Tuesday evening 64 people were diagnosed, while two bodies have been identified, "conditionally". It is not known whether a further two people who were on board, but not included in the list of passengers or the crew or cabin crew.

No statement on the event details.

In turn, the Russian ministry for emergency situations said that the government in a plane crash near Smolensk aircraft killed 96 people. About 97 victims are not confirmed. To inform the representative of the Ministry Jeliena Chernova. It killed 96 people: 88 passengers and 8 crew members - she added. There were rumors floating around about how the accident killed 97 yesterday.

Polish flown today to the 32 coffins with the remains of victims of the disaster. Identification procedure, which began on April 11, continues. Specialists from the Russian Centre for Forensic Medicine, carried out by investigating DNA of the dead in the crash. In our center we have the latest technology, but according to the procedures can not be completed before testing April 21- said a representative of the facility, which relies on agency RIA Novosti.

Here is a video making its rounds on Youtube which was taken just minutes after the plane crash.  In the background, you can clearly hear 4 gunshots.  What is this about?

First minutes after Polish President (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y)

(http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/frgKTW3jm_Y/default.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgKTW3jm_Y

Ex-KGB Agent and man who was behind Russian Apartment Building False Flag Terrorism which he used to bring himself to power, Putin, is in charge of the investigation into the crash.  Wait, WHAT!?

Take a look who was on the flight:.
Why did Georgian TV predict the plane crash?  Here is the story on that:

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/11/11838.shtml (http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/11/11838.shtml)

The Polish Leaders were moving to weaken currency, read here:

http://governmentagainstthepeople.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/polands-leaders-move-to-weaken-currency-then-die-in-plane-crash/ (http://governmentagainstthepeople.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/polands-leaders-move-to-weaken-currency-then-die-in-plane-crash/)

Some internet forums are discussing the issue may be connected with Poland's refusal to cooperate with the United States and its demand to let military and private contractors in to place missiles.

Information Liberation posted a story saying that the Global Elite had them all murdered.  Read the story here:

http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=29908 (http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=29908)

One report made some interesting points -

From the Flu Case (http://theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3270%3Atop-polish-leaders-opposing-euro-and-swine-flu-vaccines-wiped-out-in-mysterious-plane-crash&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en):

According to media, authorities are handling the deaths of top Polish political, military and economic leaders in aplane crash in the western Russian city of Smolensk on Saturday as anaccident.

But a day after the crash, many unanswered questions surround the event.

Polskaweb has said that an assassination cannot be ruled out.

There are many reasons to dismiss the official story of how Poland’s president, all of Poland's top army chiefs, the central bank governor and secret service chief died as a cover-up of massive proportions.

According to the mainstream media, the Polish delegation was flying from Warsaw to Smolensk to mark the 70thanniversary of the Katyn massacre of thousands of Poles by Soviet secret service during the Second World War.

But the official ceremony marking the Katyn anniversary was held earlier in the week on Wednesday and attended by Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Russian head of state Vladimir Putin.

The Polish President Lech Kaczynski was not invited.

How come Presidnt Kaczynski and half of Poland’s government flew to Katyn three days after the official anniversary?

Why did 100 figures who are vital for the day-to-day functioning of the Polish government go to a relatively insignificant ceremony, and not to the main one?

What reason could there be for the Polish central bank governor to fly to Katyn to attend the ceremony?

Why did the 100 top Polish leaders all fly on the same plane?

How could security protocols that require that even a president and his deputy fly separately be so relaxed that somany key people needed to run the Polish government from day to day are allowed to fly on the same plane?

And in a Russian Tupolev plane, and to the traditional arch-enemy of Poland, Russia?

This massacre of the Polish elite occurred on the way to commemorate the murder of 4000 Polish officers and intellecturals massacred by the Soviets in 1940.

But what is the probability of a second massacre of the entire Polish leadership occurring in the same place 70 years later?

Why were none of the journalists that accompany the president on the plane as usual?

According to Polish media, journalists were told that they had been assigned to another plane that had had technical problems and they would, therefore, need to switch to a third plane, delaying their arrival in Katyn.

The delay of the journalists in arriving at the scene of the crash allowed a better manipulation of the media coverage.

According to Bild am Sonntag and the Berliner Zeitung,  a hotel close to the crash site was sealed off, possible to ensure that journalists who might have seen the crash could not send photos or reports.

A man who took pictures of the crash site using his mobile phone had to erase the photos at a police check point on his way home.

Polish and Russian officials said no-one survived the crash. All the bodies have been found, they allege - and yet at the same time, authorities say DNA tests will have to be carried out on the bones of many to identify them.

Have all the bodies been found? Or not?

Were there any bodies? How many?

What evidence is there that these people were on the plane to Smolensk at all apart from the passenger list issued by the authorities?

It is conceivable that the 100 top Polish leaders were rounded up in a purge and killed or kidnapped inside Poland and that the airplane accident in Russia was staged to explain their deaths.

A map of the air port north of Smolensk can be seen here:

http://maps.google.de/maps?%20hl=de&gl=de&ie=UTF8&ll=54.835896 (http://maps.google.de/maps?%20hl=de&gl=de&ie=UTF8&ll=54.835896),32.063942&spn=0.110529,0.363579&t=h&z=12%20

Weather reports indicate clouds but little fog.

According to the official version, however, the plane hit trees as it approached Smolensk airport in thick fog, andcaught fire.

The plane made four landing attempts because of the fog, according to the mainstream media.

But another witness reported hearing an explosion.

The damage of the plane shown is consistent with an explosion.

Debris was scattered around an area one kilometer.

Pilot error was a possible reason for the crash, according to the official story.

But the pilots chosen to fly heads of state are highly qualified.

Why was the plane flying so low that it hit a tree? Weren’t the instruments measuring altitude on board working?

What was the co-pilot doing?

Where was the military escort? The security service detail?

Russian media reports said the pilots ignored advice from air traffic control to divert to another airport.

"The pilot was advised to land in Minsk, but decided to land in Smolensk," said the spokesman, Andrei Yevseyenkov.

But pilots have to follow a standardised procedure for landing and must divert if there is visibility is too poor.

Other reports say Kaczynski himself intervened to force the pilot to land. How likely is it that the pilot would listen to the president and not follow standard procedures?

How likely that the entire army leadership would allow Kaczynski to force the pilot to land. The head of the Polishair force was also on board according to the official story.

Smolensk airport is a military airport classified as a “ClassOne Aiport” that can handle all types of planes,though there are conflicting reports about whether it had an ILS system.

The media says the Tu-154 also has a questionable safety record, and the presidential plane was at least 20 years old.

But other sources say the plane had just undergone a service. A thorough check is routine before  a flight.

Planes as the safest means of travel in the world. Hardly any head of state has killed in a plane crash in the past 30 to 40 years. Now half the Polish government has died.

How likely is it that this was an accident?

Who gains from the death of so many leading Polish figures?

The main winner is Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk who has wiped out the entire opposition to his pro-euro, pro-IMF,pro-New World Order policies, even though they appear to be some allies sacrificed on the plane, including the pro swine flu vaccine ombudsman.

Nevertheless, the backbone of Polish opposition to the NWO appears to have been killed.

“Among the victims were key members of Poland’s biggest opposition party, Law and Justice, including current and former heads of the party’s parliamentary caucus, Grazyna Gesicka andP rzemyslaw Gosiewski as well as the party’s main economic expert Aleksandra Natalli-Swiat, and deputy parliamentary speaker Krzysztof Putra.

The list also includes deputy parliamentary speaker Jerzy Szmajdzinski, who was the presidential candidate of the opposition Left Democratic Alliance. That means the crash killed the presidential candidates of two of Poland’s three largest parties. Kaczynski had already won the endorsement of the opposition Law and Justice party. He was to officially declare his candidacy in May,” reports Bloomberg.

With President Kaczynski out of the way and thet wo presidential candidates, the next president can appoint the top army leaders and the central bank governor as well as judges - in short replace the entire Polish government with people friendly to the New World Order and Bilderberg agenda.

Tusk's presidential candidate Komorowski has just said he would set the date of a presidential election which had been due in October forward to June, giving Tusk's party an added advantage.

Tusk appears to be just a puppet for the NWO, operating across countries, and including Putin, who is supposed to be leading the probe in the crash in Russia.

The bodies of the victims have been taken to Moscow.

There is evidence that many government officials work for the private interests of an international corporate crime syndicate, gearing up for the total destruction of nation statesand the US dollar and euro to establish a one world government under the UN flagship.

Poland’s top leaders have defied the NWO by refusing the swine flu vaccination and postponing joining the euro, a“must”, according to IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

They have paid a heavy price.

True, Tusk appeared to support his health minister when she refused to buy the swine flu vaccine last autumn. But even the Austrian Health Minister criticized WHO for declaring a pandemic prematurely – but only after he saw how big the opposition to the vaccines in Austria already was.

Acting skills are vital for leadership, Adolf Hitler said.

By purging Poland of its top leadership and opposition, the NWO has sent out a signal, a clear warning to other government figures not to resist its agenda.

It is less likely that the Polish Health Minister will dare refuse vaccine the next time WHO declares a pandemic after this incident.

It is less likely that Greece’s central bankers and opposition parties will push for Greece to leave the Eurozone or operate a domestic currency in parallel with the euro.

That, anyway, is the calculation of the New World Order.

The murder of the Polish leaders signals the start of a new era of terror and could be the start of a whole series of purges of government officials opposing their agenda.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 16, 2010, 05:26:41 pm

Remains of the Tupolev. See unique photos

VIDEO

At the airport in Smolensk TRWA RECONSTRUCTION OF THE AIRCRAFT

In Smolensk, near the presidential Tupolev crash site, loading and completing the collection of debris. The experts - for the photos - trying to complete at least part of the machine. - It is usually done behind closed doors - says Grzegorz Sobczak, editor of the Polish winged. " Operator TVN24 been able to record this process.

The crash site of Presidential Tu-154M was already near Smolensk, virtually all large fragments of a broken plane. They were transported on specially prepared square Siewiernyj at the airport, where they are subjected to detailed examination. In these operations, to assist in the reconstruction of an accident up to a full picture of the presidential machine, part Russian and Polish experts.

Initially, fragments of a crashed airplane were to be gathered in a hangar, but abandoned that idea. - Submission of an aircraft already in progress, and most parts have been transported to the square. Transported longer wings, and fragments of shell, hulls or engines. Experts check element by element, or damage is the result of a collision with the earth or something could have happened earlier - reported on the site located Raphael Poniatowski, a reporter TVN24. He added that the most depressing and most impressive, however, stacked chairs in one place.

"The size of the fire was relatively small,"

Grzegorz Sobczak, editor of the Polish Winged "- commenting on the process of completing a recording of the remains of the plane - said that it confirms the theory that the machine struck the left wing of the tree. - Very well see that a very large part of the left wing was truncated - TVN24 Sobczak said. He added that the photos can be concluded that "the size of the fire was relatively small."

In Saturday's disaster, the government Tu-154 in Smolensk killed 96 people. So far managed to identify 76 bodies. Coffins with the bodies of the victims, which confirmed the identity of the family have already returned home.

http://www.tvn24.pl/12690,1652391,0,1,skladaja-tupolewa-ze-szczatkow-zobacz-unikatowe-zdjecia,wiadomosc.html
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 16, 2010, 05:47:47 pm

Interesting story of a TU-154 that lost 6 feet off a wing on takeoff and managed to circle around and make an emergency landing.

Quote
...The KC-135 was struck by a host nation TU-154 that was taking off. The TU-154's right wing struck the fairing of the KC-135's No. 1 engine. The force of the impact nearly severed the No. 1 engine from KC-135 and destroyed a portion of the aircraft's left wing. The TU-154 lost approximately six feet of its right wingtip, but was able to get airborne and return to the airport for an emergency landing with no additional damage to the aircraft.

The three aircrew members on board the KC-135, as well as the nine aircrew members and 52 passengers aboard the TU-154, survived the accident. None of the aircrew or passengers onboard the TU-154 sustained any injuries. One KC-135 crewmember sustained minor abrasions while evacuating the aircraft...
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123035834
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: H0llyw00d on April 16, 2010, 07:00:31 pm
Russia points to human error in fatal Polish crash

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Russian investigators suggested human error may have been to blame in the plane crash that killed the Polish president and 95 others, saying Monday that were no technical problems with the Soviet-made plane.
(http://whatrealamericansthink.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=308&d=1271087202)
The Tu-154 went down while trying to land Saturday in dense fog near Smolensk airport in western Russia. All aboard were killed, including President Lech Kaczynski and dozens of Polish political, military and religious leaders.
They had been traveling in the Polish government-owned plane to attend a memorial at nearby Katyn forest honoring thousands of Polish military officers who were executed 70 years ago by Josef Stalin's secret police.
The pilot had been warned of bad weather in Smolensk, and was advised by traffic controllers to land elsewhere — which would have delayed the Katyn observances.
The pilot was identified as Capt. Arkadiusz Protasiuk, 36, and the co-pilot as Maj. Robert Grzywna, 36. Also on the cockpit crew were Ensign Andrzej Michalak, 36, and Lt. Artur Zietek, 31.
In Warsaw, there was concern that the pilots may have been asked by someone in the plane to land at Smolensk instead of diverting to Minsk or Moscow, in part to avoid missing the commemoration ceremonies.

In Warsaw, Polish Prosecutor General Andrzej Seremet said Polish investigators talked to the flight controller and flight supervisor and "concluded that there were no conditions for landing."
"The tower was advising against the landing," Seremet said.
Polish investigators have not yet listened to the cockpit conversations recorded on the black boxes, but will, to see if there were "any suggestions made to the pilots" from other people aboard the plane.
Polish media reported in August 2008 that pilots flying Kaczynski to Tbilisi refused the president's order to land there because of the country's military conflict with Russia, diverting instead to Azerbaijan.
In remarks shown on Russian television, Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov told a government meeting including President Dmitry Medvedev that the data recorders on the plane were found to have been completely functional, which will allow a detailed analysis.
"It is reliably confirmed that warning of the unfavorable weather conditions at the North airport and recommendations to go to a reserve airport were not only transmitted but received by the crew of the plane," he said.
Russian investigators have almost finished reading the flight recorders, said Alexander Bastrykin, Russia's chief investigator.
"The readings confirm that there were no problems with the plane, and that the pilot was informed about the difficult weather conditions, but nevertheless decided to land," Bastrykin said during a briefing with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in Smolensk.
Bastrykin said the readings would be double checked, according to footage of the meeting broadcast Monday on Poland's TVN24.
The wreckage, meanwhile, will remain on site through midweek to help speed the investigation, Russian Deputy Transport Minister Igor Levitin said.
Both Russia and Ukraine declared a day of mourning Monday, as Poles struggled to come to terms with the national tragedy that eliminated so many of their government and military leaders.
Tens of thousands watched as Kaczynski's body, returned Sunday to Warsaw, was carried in a coffin by a hearse to the presidential palace, including his twin brother Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the former prime minister.
An annual Holocaust memorial event at Auschwitz-Birkenau on Monday was honoring Kaczynski and the other victims. Organizers of the March of the Living — with some 10,000 Jewish youth marching over a mile (1.6 kilometers) between the two parts of the former Nazi death camp — said those marching would also remember Poland's elite killed in Saturday's crash.
Forensics experts from Poland and Russia were working to ID other bodies, including first lady Maria Kaczynska, using DNA testing in many cases.
Jacek Sasin, a spokesman for the Presidential Palace, said Kaczynska's body would be sent to Warsaw, probably Tuesday.
He said the bodies of the first couple would lie in state at the palace from Tuesday, their coffins closed, and the public would be permitted to view them.
"We want every Pole who wants to pay tribute to the president, to be able to come and stand by the coffin," he said.
Sasin that officials are now planning the funeral for Saturday but a final decision depends on when the bodies of all 96 victims are returned home.
Medvedev has said he wants to attend, according to Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski.
Sasin said nothing has been changed in the living quarters of the president and his wife since they were last there for breakfast on Saturday.
"I don't think there is anyone who would want to change anything there. We still cannot believe what has happened," he said. "We all saw them as very warm people, the kind of people that you want to be with, talk to. It is hard to believe that it is over."
Also aboard the Tupolev were the national bank president, the deputy foreign minister, the army chaplain, the head of the National Security Office, the deputy parliament speaker, the Olympic Committee head and at least two presidential aides and 17 lawmakers.
Acting President Bronislaw Komorowski said he was moving to fill the seats in parliament left empty because of the crash.
Meanwhile the Polish zloty was stable on Monday, with little change in its value against the dollar and euro compared to Friday, the day before the plane crash killed the central bank head Slawomir Skrzypek among the dozens of others.
___
Associated Press Writer Vanessa Gera contributed to this report.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Brocke on April 16, 2010, 07:09:55 pm

Device spurs questions in Polish crash

By Alan Levin, USA TODAY

The Polish jet that crashed short of a runway in fog, killing that nation's president and other top leaders, was equipped with a safety device that warns pilots when they get too close to the ground, the device's manufacturer said Tuesday.

The existence of the device deepens the mystery of why the jet struck woods and exploded as pilots attempted to land Saturday at a Russian military airport, aviation safety experts said. If the safety device was working properly, it would be the first such crash of an aircraft equipped with the system since its introduction in the late 1990s.

The Russian-built Tupolev TU-154 had been equipped with a Terrain Awareness and Warning System (TAWS) made by Universal Avionics Systems of Tucson, said company spokesman John Hamby. He said the company could not discuss the investigation into the crash or other details.

TAWS devices contain computerized maps of the world and issue warnings whenever aircraft come too close to mountain tops, radio towers or any other obstruction. Accidents in which a functioning airplane flew into the ground had been the leading cause of deaths around the world.

The devices, required on commercial aircraft since 2005, have virtually wiped out such crashes. If a jet gets too low, the TAWS issues a whooping siren and a recorded voice demands pilots "pull up."

The fact that the jet had a TAWS device "opens more questions than it answers," said John Cox, a safety consultant and former accident investigator.

"I really would like to know what was going on in that flight deck because no matter what kind of pressure other pilots have been under or what kind of weather they encountered, no pilot has ignored a TAWS warning. What is so different about this plane that it would break that chain?" Cox said.

Bill Voss, president of the non-profit Flight Safety Foundation, said that the crash may highlight a weakness in the TAWS. Maps of the U.S. and other developed nations are highly accurate, but gaps exist in the maps for countries such as Russia and in the developing world, Voss said.

President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, Maria Kaczynska, and other prominent Poles were on their way to Smolensk in western Russia, where they were to attend a memorial service for thousands of Polish soldiers who were executed 70 years ago. All 96 people aboard the jet died.

There is no evidence that engine failure brought down the plane, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov said. The airport was shrouded in fog and controllers advised the pilots to divert, according to Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-04-13-fog-plane-crash-poland_N.htm
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 17, 2010, 12:06:04 pm
Device spurs questions in Polish crash
The existence of the device deepens the mystery of why the jet struck woods and exploded as pilots attempted to land Saturday at a Russian military airport, aviation safety experts said. If the safety device was working properly, it would be the first such crash of an aircraft equipped with the system since its introduction in the late 1990s.

What is the probability of that happening by chance on a high-profile flight such as this?

I'll answer that - virtually none.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Xill on April 17, 2010, 12:20:57 pm
Device spurs questions in Polish crash

By Alan Levin, USA TODAY

The Polish jet that crashed short of a runway in fog, killing that nation's president and other top leaders, was equipped with a safety device that warns pilots when they get too close to the ground, the device's manufacturer said Tuesday.

The existence of the device deepens the mystery of why the jet struck woods and exploded as pilots attempted to land Saturday at a Russian military airport, aviation safety experts said. If the safety device was working properly, it would be the first such crash of an aircraft equipped with the system since its introduction in the late 1990s.

The Russian-built Tupolev TU-154 had been equipped with a Terrain Awareness and Warning System (TAWS) made by Universal Avionics Systems of Tucson, said company spokesman John Hamby. He said the company could not discuss the investigation into the crash or other details.

TAWS devices contain computerized maps of the world and issue warnings whenever aircraft come too close to mountain tops, radio towers or any other obstruction. Accidents in which a functioning airplane flew into the ground had been the leading cause of deaths around the world.

The devices, required on commercial aircraft since 2005, have virtually wiped out such crashes. If a jet gets too low, the TAWS issues a whooping siren and a recorded voice demands pilots "pull up."

The fact that the jet had a TAWS device "opens more questions than it answers," said John Cox, a safety consultant and former accident investigator.

"I really would like to know what was going on in that flight deck because no matter what kind of pressure other pilots have been under or what kind of weather they encountered, no pilot has ignored a TAWS warning. What is so different about this plane that it would break that chain?" Cox said.

Bill Voss, president of the non-profit Flight Safety Foundation, said that the crash may highlight a weakness in the TAWS. Maps of the U.S. and other developed nations are highly accurate, but gaps exist in the maps for countries such as Russia and in the developing world, Voss said.

President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, Maria Kaczynska, and other prominent Poles were on their way to Smolensk in western Russia, where they were to attend a memorial service for thousands of Polish soldiers who were executed 70 years ago. All 96 people aboard the jet died.

There is no evidence that engine failure brought down the plane, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov said. The airport was shrouded in fog and controllers advised the pilots to divert, according to Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-04-13-fog-plane-crash-poland_N.htm

Wow, how come many already knew the plane had such a device (actually they have multiple GPS) but it took a week for the mainstream medias?
The tree should have broken down and left the plane intact? No way, those are super destructive trees from Russia, Explosive trees. Touch it and boom.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Viper on April 17, 2010, 12:23:15 pm
..No way, those are super destructive trees from Russia, Explosive trees. Touch it and boom.

Makes sense, Rooskies get the exploding trees, the Americans, exploding light poles. :)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: N.E.P. on April 17, 2010, 09:17:13 pm
Found this on ATS

Polish Plane Crashed After Fighting to Get Above 30′ Trees?
http://cybercossack.com/?p=1929

April 17th, 2010 by Blackminorca

The Sich High Command has conducted a preliminary investigation and notes these photos of clipped trees starting a quarter mile before the crash. How is it possible that the plane could not climb above these small trees when they are designed to climb 30′ every second?
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_06bGa1QkqOY/S8VlKnsqi2I/AAAAAAAADqw/Sx9JRqQnqP8/s640/%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B52.jpg)

Here is the first tree that was clipped in the middle of an open field. This tree is only a few feet tall and could have caused no damage but for sure, the pilots knew at this point they had to climb.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_06bGa1QkqOY/S8T2fNwqkRI/AAAAAAAADo8/uJBA5aLMoNg/s640/IMG_8208_1.jpg)

Yet  for some reason they could not since they went on to clip more small trees and brush for a quarter mile.

Below is a picture that we developed based on the above link that shows a SCALED side view – detailing how a modern aircraft that was just upgraded by the Russians was not able to climb above small trees for a quarter mile before it flipped and crashed.  Also note the 400 meter visibility line at the top of the picture.  Given a descent rate of 300′ per mile, that means that they traveled for 4 miles or about two minutes while within sight of the ground they would eventually hit.

This was not pilot error.

(http://cybercossack.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/crash-final3-1024x594.jpg)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Xill on April 17, 2010, 09:39:09 pm
Strange how they have cameras at every corner to spy on the people who gets on planes, but do not even have cameras to capture the planes landing and takeoff, and this is a military airport.

No footage of the crash? In a military airport? riiiiight.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: bobkelso on April 18, 2010, 11:33:35 am
i'm gettin' this party started folks


4/10 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 18, 2010, 06:57:02 pm
Questions about plane crash grow in Poland (http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/questions-about-plane-crash-grow-in-poland/)
April 18, 2010 by Jane Burgermeister

In the clear, blue skies above Krakow, there are no signs of the cloud of volcanic ash that has prevented President Barack Obama, Prince Charles, Chancellor Angela Merkel and other world leaders from coming to Krakow for the funeral of President Lech Kaczynski today.

But there is a very real sense of shock and loss among the crowds

In the plane crash last Saturday, Poland “s central bank governor was killed along with the national security chief and the top military officers, including the army chief of staff and a future candidate for commander of Nato.

There are also growing question marks over the crash, though some of the Polish people I spoke to said they never expected to know the real reason of the crash as much of the forensic evidence has disappeared to Moscow.

The Polish newspaper Fakty carried a front page showing an Illuimati eye in a pyramid on top of a pile of skulls beside a picture of the plane crash, showing that some people, at least, believe that the Illuminati and New World Order engineered the murder of the Polish elite to obtain political and financial advantages.

The death of the central bank governor opens the door to the appointment of a more euro and IMF friendly successor.

The President and two presidential candidates were killed, allowing parliamentary speaker Bronislaw Komorowski to fill the positions of  almost 100 key government officials, including the army and security chiefs  in an unprecedented coup d”etat.

Polish agents were scouring the office of one of the plane crash victim within two hours of the crash announcement – and before they could even be sure that person was dead, it has been reported.

These and many other facts are even fuelling the theory that the people who allegedly died on board the plane were actually kidnapped in Poland and the plane crash staged.

Footage of the crash site showing no bodies or personnel belongings by the wreckage, supposed to be strewn over an area of only 300 to 500 metres, is prompting speculation.

In the meantime, the black boxes of the crashed plane have been recovered and one of them is being examined also by Polish officials.

The black boxes show there was no technical problem with the airplane, which had been serviced in December 2009.

This means that the special equipment to alert pilots to potential dangers, the Terrain Awareness Warning System, should have been working on board the Tupolev 154.

It is difficult to explain how the pilot could have become so disorientated as to fly into trees about 1000 metres short of the runway and missing it by 40 to 45 metres.

According to the official account, the plane hit a tree, the left wing broke off and the plane veered off to land 150 metres from the runway.

But there are no signs of any trees of the height and strength necessary to snap off the wing of a plane.

An alternative explanation could be that the wing snapped off because of an explosion or a bomb.

Gunshots heard on a video clip shot at the site of the crash site in the immediate aftermath have also raised questions.

So have reports in the Russian media that the runway lights were changed after the crash and that radar equipment installed for the visit of Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Russian leader Vladmir Putin was removed.

Initial media reports that the plane tried to land four times, the pilot was pressured by Kaczynski or that the pilot could not speak Russian have been disproved.

There was only one landing attempt, no interference from Kaczynski recorded on the voice recorder and the pilot could speak Russian according to a colleague.

The timing of the crash is also extraordinary.

Seventy years after the first Katyn massacre left Poland leaderless, the second has occurred.

Key players who helped keep Poland”s economy buoyant and who must have given their tacit support to the Health Minister Ewa Kopacz to refuse the swine flu vaccine have been killed.

The implications for Poland”s future are far reaching.

But the whole world could be affected.

The first Katyn massacre preceded the intensification of world war two.

Having carved up Poland, Nazi Germany and Stalin”s Soviet Union embarked on a new phase of conquest – and were soon at each other”s throats.

Now the international banking cartel has got a grip on the Polish monetary policy and currency and Putin has eliminated an enemy, the US might be freer to launch an attack against Iran.

Russia has been a traditional ally of Iran. But it may step back for a year or so before becoming embroiled in the conflict, sparking world war three.

But as the sun shines over Krakow, it is hard not to feel optimism.

Volcanic ash clouds have kept the globalists away from the ceremony at Wawel Castle, one of the seven energy points on the earth, along with Delphi, Rome, Jerusalem, Delhi and Mecca.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 18, 2010, 07:00:05 pm
Investigations into plane crash continue to offer puzzles
April 18, 2010 by Jane Burgermeister
Polish and Russian investigators turn up new clues in plane crash scene (http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/investigations-into-plane-crash-continue-to-offer-puzzles/)
Published 16 April, 2010, 17:33
Edited 18 April, 2010, 11:38

As Krakow braces for Sunday’s state funeral, crash investigators are turning up new clues as to what led to last Saturday’s horrific crash that dealt a terrible blow to Poland’s government.

The Polish first couple was among the 96 passengers and crew who lost their lives in a plane crash last Saturday near the western Russian city of Smolensk. The high-level delegation was on its way to Katyn, a forested area near the Belarusian-Russian border, to pay tribute to some 20,000 Polish officers killed by the Soviet secret police during World War II.

The crash sent shockwaves of grief around the world, and was powerful enough to bring out some soul-searching between Poland and Russia, two countries that have a lengthy history of animosity between them. The Polish people were especially touched when they saw footage of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin console his Polish counterpart, Donald Tusk, with an embrace as the two men met at the crash site.

One high-ranking Polish politician said that it was inappropriate to dub the fatal plane crash a “Second Katyn,” while suggesting that the tragedy may help mend strained Polish-Russian relations.”Though [the plane crash] was initially called a ‘Second Katyn’, it is quite another matter. The Communist state killed our officers and drove a wedge between us which we are still struggling to overcome. The recent tragedy, on the contrary, brought our states and peoples together,”

Borusewicz said that those who think that relations between the two states will worsen are in a minority.”Russians have changed a great deal,”

Investigators examine black boxes

Meanwhile, as Poland and the international community prepares to pay its final respects to Kaczynski and his wife, investigators are slowly piecing together the tragic final moments before Poland’s presidential Tu-154 crashed in a wooded area just short of the runway.

Contrary to original reports, the chairperson of the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) said on Thursday that the presidential aircraft made just one attempt to land before crashing.”Media reports that the Polish plane made three or four attempts to land are false. I can say that there was only one landing attempt,”

The IAC also confirmed on Friday that the aircraft sheared a line of trees about one kilometer away from the start of the runway.”We have established that the plane had first contact with trees about 1,050 meters from the runway and about 40-45 meters to the left of the final approach line,” t

“Most of the fragments of the plane are scattered around an area about 350-500 meters away and 150 meters to the left of the runway,”"At the moment all aircraft fragments, personal belongings, documents, valuables and other items of interest to the investigation have been removed from the site of the crash,”

Anodina said Russian and Polish investigators were cooperating to determine what caused last Saturday’s tragedy, which led to the death of many of Poland’s top political, military and business elite.”Work is in progress. It is scrupulous and being carried out in full cooperation with the Polish side,”

the chairwoman told RIA Novosti. “When it is over, the commission will make the results public.”Meanwhile, early reports suggest that the president and other VIPs aboard did not pressure the pilots to land “no matter what” – despite the poor visibility and safety concerns.

Interfax on Thursday quoted an anonymous source in the panel of experts that pilot error was the likely culprit in Saturday’s crash.”The panel’s analysis, namely data from the black boxes, shows that it was pilot’s mistake that caused the crash,”

the source said, adding that the pilots were aware of their situation before the crash, saying that the final moments of conversation between the pilots were “dramatic.”Russian and Polish specialists are jointly investigating the causes of the deadly crash. Polish military prosecutors, however, have opened their own investigation into the accident.

Meanwhile, the painstaking process of identifying the bodies from the crash continues. Already, 74 victims have been identified, a source in the Moscow center for assisting relatives of the victims told Interfax.”Identification procedures will continue on Friday. A plane carrying 34 sealed coffins with victims’ remains flew from [Moscow’s] Domodedovo airport to Warsaw at 16:25 on Thursday,”

Finally, as if Poland does not have enough to think about, meteorologists are keeping their eye on a massive ash cloud, spewed out by a volcano in Iceland that has halted flights across Europe for two consecutive days.

Flights across much of Europe are expected to be severely disrupted well into Saturday because of the drifting ash, officials said. Much of the airspace across northern and western Europe has been shut down, and flight control officials said some 17,000 flights would be cancelled on Friday.

Poland’s PAP news agency reported Thursday evening that the Polish Air Navigation Services Agency prohibited flights over part of the country until further notice. Flights in and out of Gdansk airport were canceled.

However, Polish TVN24 channel on Friday said the country’s authorities had no plans to postpone the ceremony.

Robert Bridge, RT (http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=birdflu666.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Frt.com%2FA%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Drobert%2Bbridge%26x%3D0%26y%3D0&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fbirdflu666.wordpress.com%2F)

the source said. Vladimir Markin said, adding that investigators are continuing their work in Smolensk and Moscow.he IAC said in its latest report on the crash investigation. “The plane hit another tree with its left wing after 200 meters and rolled sharply to the left.”the IAC report continues.Tatyana Anodina said.he said, praising the Russian reaction to the disaster.Marshal of the Senate Bogdan Borusewicz told the TVN24 channel.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 18, 2010, 07:02:42 pm
Polish prosecutors examine video footage of crash site with gunshots (http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/polish-prosecutors-examine-video-footage-of-crash-site-with-gunshots/)
April 16, 2010 by Jane Burgermeister

Polish state prosecutors are examining video footage shot in the immediate aftermath of the crash of a Tupolev plane into wooded area beside runway of Smolensk airport on Saturday, killing about 100 high ranking Polish military and civilian officials.

Four gunshots from a small calibre pistol can be heard on the video clip.

http://www.infowars.com/amateur-video-of-kaczynski-plane-crash-in-smolensk/

Sirens from approaching emergency crews, and panicked shouts can also be heard in the short clip filmed by a camera operator who zig zags in a wooded area a few metres from wreckage.

Evidence that guns were fired at the crash site has triggered speculation that military personnel searched the crash site, looking for survivors and killing any crew members who were left alive.

A motive for such a „cleaning up“ operation could be to eliminate witnesses to an engineered crash.

Another explanation for the gunshots is that cartridges from the weapons of the bodyguards exploded.

The video shows no evidence of bodies, parts of bodies or of personnel belongings among the pieces of wreckage strewn in the woods as might be expected for a plane with 100 passengers.

About 100 people were supposed to have been on board the Tu-154 plane among them President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, Maria, the Polish central bank governor, national security chief and all military chiefs.

The absence of body parts strongly suggests that the high level military and civilian officials were executed elsewhere, and that the plane crash was staged in Russia to explain their disappearance and to restrict an investigation.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 18, 2010, 07:03:59 pm
Smolensk runway lighting system tampered with, says Russian journalist (http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/smolensk-runway-lighting-system-tampered-with-says-russian-journalist/)
April 16, 2010 by Jane Burgermeister

Radar equipment was dismantled at the Smolensk military airport shortly before a Tu-154 plane carring high level Polish military and civilians crashed there on Saturday, Russian investigative journalist Julia Latynina has written in the “Moscow Times”.

A number of infrared lamps used for lighting the runway have also been reported to have been removed shortly after the crash.

Infrared lamps help pilots to align with the runway.

The news that key lamps were changed after the crash will fuel speculation that the Polish pilots were caught up in an elaborate deception as to the position of the runway, leading them to plunge into woods close by.

“A couple of days before the planned visit of Lech Kaczynski in Katyn, the head of the Russian government Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Donald Tusk landed on April 7th at Smolensk airport with the help of specially delivered radar equipment. On Saturday, April 10th the equipment had vanished,” Julia Latynina wrote, reports Polskaweb.

Latynina also claims that Tusk and Putin discussed a strategy for making the visit of Kaczysnki look “superfluous”.

This is the report in Polskaweb:

Moskau – Nach einem sensationellen Bericht der bekannten russischen Journalistin Julia Latynina, wurden auf dem Militärflughafen bei Smolensk, auf welchem die abgestürzte Tu-154 des polnischen Präsidenten Kaczynski landen wollte, vorab eine Radar-Anlage abgebaut, welche wenige Tage vor dem Besuch des polnischen Premiers Donald Tusk und seinem russischen Amtskollegen in Katyn, dort angebracht worden sein soll. Woher Latynina diese wichtige Information bezog, sagte sie zum Schutze ihrer Quellen nicht. Dieser seltsame Vorgang könnte aber mit den Beobachtungen eines Zeugen in Zusammenstang stehen, welcher beobachtet haben will, dass kurz nach der Katastrophe einige Laserslampen auf dem Flughafen ausgetauscht worden sein sollen. Die Laser dienen in der Regel dazu landenden Piloten die Position von des Flughafens und auch der Runway (LRS – System) anzuzeigen.

“Ein paar Tage vor dem geplanten Besuch von Lech Kaczynski in Katyn, landeten am 7. April das Oberhaupt der russischen Regierung Vladimir Putin und Ministerpräsident Donald Tusk, mit Hilfe eines speziell angeliefertem Radargerätes, auf dem Smolensker Flughafen. Am Samstag dem 10. April 2010 war das Gerät verschwunden” – kommentierte Julia Latynina am Donnerstag in der “Moscow Times”. Gleichwohl fügte sie hinzu, dass man während des Tusk- Besuches auch eine Strategie vorbereitet habe, wie man den Besuch des polnischen Präsidenten Lech Kaczynski durch russische Behörden “als überflüssig behandeln lassen” könne.

Oberst Bartosz Stroinski, der am 7. April als Kommandeur der Tupolew Ministerpräsident Tusk nach Smolensk flog sagte, dass die Besatzung die Landung mit Hilfe der Standard-Ausrüstung des örtlichen militärischen Flughafen durchführte. Er räumte hierbei ein, dass die Verhältnisse vor Ort ziemlich schlecht waren. In Anbetracht dessen muss man sich allerdings fragen, was eine Iljuschin-60 nach Smolensk trieb, die zum Zeitpunkt des Anfluges von polnischen Journalisten dort angebliche Landeversuche durchführte, welche man möglicherweise später der Tupolew zuordnen sollte, obwohl diese nur einen Versuch unternahm.

Bei dem Flugzeugabsturz in Smolensk in Russland wurden 96 Menschen getötet. Unter ihnen, Präsident Lech Kaczynski und seine Frau sowie weitere wichtige polnische Persönlichkeiten. Russische und deutsche Medien melden, dass die Piloten der abgestürzten Tupolew Schuld an “dem Unfall” gehabt haben sollen. Diese Aussage hat der leitenden polnische Militärstaatsanwalt, der heute nach Warschau zurückkehrte, noch nicht bestätigt. Er spricht gar von gewagten Spekulationen der russischen Presse, die ausländische Spekulanten mit sich ziehen würden.

“Polskaweb” wird Sie in den nächsten Tagen ausführlicher über Hintergründe, Aussagen und auch einem möglichen sehr gewichtigen Motiv für einen Anschlag auf die poltische Gruppe an Bord der Tu-154M informieren. Noch ist alles offen, Unfall, fahrlässige Tötung und auch ein Attentat. Bei einem Flugzeugabsturz mit vielen Politikern an Bord, sollte man bei den Untersuchungen auch die Möglichkeiten eines Anschlages genauestens prüfen. Leider gibt es zumindest erste Hinweise darauf, dass möglicherweise nicht alles mit rechten Dingen bei der Tragödie zuging.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 18, 2010, 07:05:01 pm
Polish military starts investigation of plane crash (http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/polish-military-starts-investigation-of-plane-crash/)
April 16, 2010 by Jane Burgermeister

Poland starts own probe into presidential plane crash
18:1813/04/2010
Polish military prosecutors have opened an investigation into the plane crash that claimed the lives of Polish President Lech Kaczynski and dozens of the country’s top officials, Polish Attorney General Krzysztof Parulski said on Tuesday.
“The Military Prosecutor’s Office is carrying out an independent investigation [of the accident],” he said.
Polish TVN24 TV channel reported earlier in the day Russian and Polish specialists will finish on Wednesday or Thursday analyzing the data contained in the black boxes of the plane that crashed in western Russia killing the Polish president and 95 others.
It also said that contrary to initial reports, an examination of the flight recorders revealed that the crew had made two, not four attempts to land.
The flight recordings also indicate the Polish pilots did not report any technical problems on board.
Russian government officials said the bodies of 48 people had been identified and a special plane from Poland was expected to take the coffins home later on Tuesday.
The delegation of top political and public figures was on its way to pay tribute to some 20,000 Polish officers executed by Soviet secret police in 1940.
Poland has declared a week of national mourning.
MOSCOW, April 13 (RIA Novosti)
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 18, 2010, 07:05:35 pm
Now there was only one attempt to land.  God, this thing smells.  No one in MSM willing to utter the dreaded word, "conspiracy".  As usual.

Par for the course.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 18, 2010, 07:06:45 pm
International terrorists from FSB Russia murdered Polish President with EMP (http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/14/11842.shtml)
Publication time: 14 April 2010, 12:54
Kavkaz Center

The Romanian Global News was the only outlet of the Rumanian media which reported about the attack of international terrorists from the FSB Russia against the plane of the Polish President in Smolensk, in which the whole Polish elite had been exterminated. The Rumanian agency cites its sources in the security structures of the NATO. The report has not been officially confirmed yet, but increasing evidence testifies that the Russians really eliminated the leadership of Poland in the most brutal crime of this century.

The opportunity was unique for Russia. Russia never had so many enemies seated in one plane over its territory or near a military base equipped with electronic and electromagnetic weapons systems. It was an opportunity that former KGB agent Vladimir Putin could not miss.

To murder enemies was the ABC of philosophy for security services in the Czarist Russia, which remains intact until now. For the FSB, GRU, SVR and for all other Russian secret services it was just a routine operation, which they call in technical terms “the annihilation of anti-Russian political and military leaders of an enemy country.”

The Russian claim of a “human error” and other Russian disinformation campaigns can not conceal the fact of a sudden and total failure of all the equipment on board the plane and free the Russians of suspicions that they destroyed the plane in a terrorist attack.

It is a crime that Moscow would have to pay for many years ahead. The Russian state terrorists initially wanted to eliminate the President and his brother, a former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski. He didn’t board the death plane only by chance, his mother was ill.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski is likely to be the next president of Poland.

Actually, informed people can not be fooled by the Russian disinformation campaign launched after the tragedy, indirectly confirming suspicions disclosed by the Romanian Global News.

The Rumanian Evenimentul Zilei B1 TV aired a program about the tragedy with Caesar Osiceanu as moderator. The Russian version of events contradicts the information received by the Romanian Global News, the program reported.

In its turn, the Polish media is now more concerned with funerals of politicians exterminated by the Russians in the plane crash rather than starting to ask questions and get uneasy.

“A preliminary analysis of the conversations indicate that the 26-year old plane was in good working condition, writes the news.pl.

Initially, the media speculated that the tragedy could have been caused by a poor state of the Russian-made Polish plane, noting that in the past 40 years, 60 such planes crashed. Six of them crashed in the last five years. The head of the production team at the Tupolev plant Alexei Gusev said the aircraft was recently refurbished and its engines were repaired.

The traffic controllers at the airport of Smolensk presumably advised the Polish pilot not to land, warning that a dense fog reduced visibility.

They suggested to the pilots to try to land in the airport of Minsk or Moscow. The Chief Pilot, Arkadiusz Protasiuk, presumably ignored the advice of the Russian controllers and decided to land in the airport in Smolensk. He presumably tried it four times.

A colleague of the now dead pilot, Tomasz Pietrzak, who flew several times such Russian planes, said there is no evidence so far that Protasiuk really tried four times to land in Smolensk.

The crash of the Polish President’s plane which caused the death of all 96 passengers is absolutely inexplicable because of the sophisticated electronic equipment on board and experienced pilots.

Sources in the Polish Ministry of Defense in Warsaw reported exclusively to the Romanian Global News that Russian military carried out experiments in the past with electromagnetic weapons on its military base in the area of the military airfield where the plane of the Polish president tried to land.

In 2008, Moscow said it had created the most powerful electromagnetic weapon of all time, known as the EMP (electromagnetic pulse), the Russian paper Pravda reported.

“The immense power of billions of watts is being generated, and the weapon is of extremely small size. The innovation is that electromagnetic pulses emitted by the new weapon is much shorter, but extremely powerful, “said Gennady Mesyats, the Vice President of the Russian Academy of Science and director of the Lebedev Physics Institute.

“Such small weapon has never been created in the past and yet it is extremely powerful. . There were similar devices, made during the Cold War, but their size was huge. Our device is at least 10 times more powerful than any weapon created abroad,” said Mikhail Yaladin, a scientist credited with the development of the electromagnetic super weapon.

Any electronic equipment fails to operate in the near of the electromagnetic device, when the generator is running. The device was shown in Yekaterinburg. According to Russian military scientists, it produces results similar to a lightning stroke or a nuclear explosion. The weapon was called Nika, after the Greek goddess of victory.

A weapon of this type can interfere with electronic equipment and engines of any aircraft, Polish military sources said to the Romanian Global News. It is very difficult to detect it because of a short period of the use of the electromagnetic beam.

Kaczynski brothers were among the strongest defenders Polish national interests, both from Moscow and from Germany and Brussels.

Under their leadership, one of the largest Russian spy networks has been destroyed by the Polish military counterintelligence. This is one of the hardest blows that Moscow has ever got in the NATO area.

The Rumanian news agency is not the only one who distrusts the Russians.

“Israeli” media outlets do not trust the official Russian version about the causes of the plane crash near Smolensk as well, the Rumanian Global News says. Some of them are inclined to see a Kremlin-style murder in this incident, reports the izrus.co.il.

Many analyst believe that the tragedy was staged by the Kremlin, which hated Kaczynski, because of his anti-Russian stance.

On April 10, the first “Israeli” TV channel as well as the second one mentioned a possible involvement of Putin in the death of the Polish president.

Next day, on April 11, doubts were expressed in the print media.

“The Poles can hardly believe that all political and military leadership disappeared as a result of an accident caused by a tragic set of circumstances, technical defects and a human factor”, writes the Yediot Ahronot newspaper.

The Ha’aretz newspaper adds:” In the first hours after the accident, a possibility of a Russian involvement prevailed in the Polish media because of tense relations between Kaczynski and Putin.

The Maariv went further and titled its article “A smell of liquidation”.

“Moscow has promised to investigate, Putin became the head of the investigation committee, but it is unlikely that the truth would be ever revealed,”, the article says.

The NRG Web site says that “the accusation in a targeted Kremlin-style assassination will accompany the story in the coming year”

A leading political analyst, Attila Somfalvi wrote in the “Facebook” that “the Russians are now the main suspects”.

On April 12, the newspaper Ha’aretz noted that Russian solidarity with Poland in the Smolensk tragedy is only meant to deceive the world.

Department of Monitoring
Kavkaz Center
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: EvadingGrid on April 18, 2010, 07:29:34 pm
I did not know Tupolev was fly by wire, thought it was old fashioned made in russia and so not liable to EMP.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 18, 2010, 07:41:37 pm
that website is CIA/Mossad/G7 al-CIA-duh crapola site used for disseminating ghost threats.
The fact that Kavkaz says this was FSB only makes me think it was Mossad.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 18, 2010, 08:18:35 pm
Interesting side note, the CIA accuses Kavkaz of being FSB.  Cover story?  Kavkaz is CIA?  Makes you wonder.

David McDuff, Scottish translator of Russian, editor for Prague Watch (National Endowment for Democracy) continuing CIA's illegal activities of supporting foreign parties, accuses Kavkaz of being FSB, which many believe.

Like those Matroshka dolls.

Hilarious to think people think the cold war ever really ended.  Just took a back seat to the GWOT, which is supposedly passe now, as well.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on April 19, 2010, 01:08:47 am
I did not know Tupolev was fly by wire, thought it was old fashioned made in russia and so not liable to EMP.

Can you elaborate??
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 26, 2010, 04:47:11 pm
Quote

... it is important to remember his twin brother, the Prime Minister, is quite alive.


And now this, President's twin brother (former Prime Minister) to run for President in June per Jane Burgermeister:

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/killed-polish-presidents-brother-to-run-for-election-in-june/

Take that, Bilderbergers.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Letsbereal on April 27, 2010, 06:40:58 am
The Mystery of Poland's Presidential Plane Crash Deepens
26 April 2010
, by Max Kolonko (The Huffington Post)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-kolonko/the-mystery-of-polands-pr_b_551223.html?ref=fb&src=sp

According to an anonymous source, the investigation into the causes of the Polish presidential plane crash may be subjected to political pressure which could hinder the ongoing investigation. This, claims the source, is due to the political aspect of the accident: the tragic death of the president on the territory of a foreign country.

The Polish presidential jet was not insured, which could mean that the party at fault in the tragedy may be subject to a multimillion dollar civil litigation suit by families of the victims.

This situation additionally complicates the fact that the Polish president was headed to Russia to commemorate a mass murder of Polish officers during World War II by the Soviets in Katyn, "a cursed place" as the former President of Poland Aleksander Kwasniewski has described it. Some even compare the Polish presidential jet crash, in which Poland lost its President and dozens of political, military and religious leaders, to Katyn No 2.

If the cause of the crash is determined to be a flight controller's mistake or a malfunction of the navigation equipment at the Russian airport, it could harm Polish-Russian relations, which for years have been far from satisfactory, the source says.

(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-04-25-zarowkicrashsite.jpg)

Questions

A picture of Russian airport personnel changing light bulbs in the approach lights to Smolensk airport under the supervision of a uniformed Russian military officer has been circulated in the Polish media. This prompted the Polish prosecutor in charge of the investigation to ask his Russian counterpart for an explanation.

"The question should be: was it something that was planned earlier or was it a decision that was taken in the aftermath of the crash," says Greg Phillips, a former NTSB crash investigator.

Four days before the crash, jets of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk safely landed on the same tarmac in Smolensk. According to unconfirmed reports, Prime Minster Putin's security detail equipped the airport with an additional navigation system, MMLS (Mobile Microwave Landing System), before the landing which was dismantled after the visit was completed. In Poland the revelation fuels speculation about the crash.

Russian authorities who lead the investigation have not yet answered if the report is true and if so why the same navigational equipment was not provided for the pilots of the Polish Presidential plane.

Who owns the black boxes?

According to the largest Polish opinionated daily Rzeczpospolita, Polish Prosecutor General, Andrzej Seremeta, stated that Polish investigators would obtain from Russian authorities "transcripts of cockpit voice recorders, not the voice recorders itself".

This raised eyebrows of some US aviation experts.

According to the rules of crash investigation included in Annex 6 and 13 of ICAO Chicago Convention (also signed by Poland and Russia), a Polish investigation team should be directly involved in the process of the analysis of the black boxes content.

Greg Phillips, a former NTSB crash investigator, agrees that the Polish investigation team should be able to retrieve the black boxes after the investigation just as the pieces of the airplane itself since they are the property of the Government of Poland which owned the plane.

Phillips admits, however, that it is unclear if the ICAO regulations regarding civilian airplanes could be applied to a presidential plane operated by the Polish Air Force.

(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-04-25-Polishairforceone.jpg)

The Flying Coffin

The President of Poland traveled on a Russian made Tu-154 with a disqualifying safety record (40 crashes since 1970). Polish journalists called it "the Flying Coffin;" American pilots labeled it "Careless." According to Ascend magazine, Tu-154 has suffered a fatal accident for every 431,200 flights, compared with Boeing 737s record of one fatal crash for each 2.68-million flights.

The issue of the modernization of the governmental fleet has been raised in Poland since the early 90's but for various reasons it was never completed.

In 2007 the issue became political when Prime Minister Donald Tusk proposed that Polish governmental VIP's should travel on commercial flights, which was in accordance with public expectations. A 2007 Polish edition of a Newsweek poll showed a majority of Poles believed the state authorities should fly on commercial airliners.

In February 2008, in a political showdown, Prime Minister Donald Tusk traveled to Washington on an official state visit to the White House on board a Polish commercial airliner LOT.

"No problems with the airplane"

Preliminary reports on the Polish presidential jet crash indicate that flight PLF 101 attempted to land in a dense fog when it struck an installation 1000 meters before the runway then cut tops of trees, which caused the aircraft to flip and crash inverted into a forest, killing all 96 people on board instantly.

According to a former NTSB crash investigator, Greg Phillips, there is no indication of a malfunction of the aircraft. Tu-154 is well known among pilots for its robust construction, which can increase the chances of survival in a crash landing situation.

The airplane made it to the airport without any problem; there was no emergency call, no distress calls, which indicate that there was probably no problem with the airplane, says Phillips.

The mystery of the Polish Presidential jet crash additionally deepens the fact that it was equipped with TAWS, a safety device that warns pilots when they get too close to the ground.

If the safety device was working properly, it would be the first such crash of an aircraft with the system in aviation history, says John M. Cox, a safety consultant and former accident investigator.

Photographs of the crash site show the gear of the airplane was in the"down" position when it crashed. This indicates that the plane was on a landing approach but was about 1000 meters away from the point where it should have been. TAWS should have given a warning. It's a mystery why the crew would have ignore it, adds Cox.

The functionality of the TAWS system can be determined by an analysis of the flight data in the microchip installed in the system, which can be done only at the device manufacturer Universal Avionics Systems of Tucson. The company declined comments due to the pending investigation. Experts agree that it is likely, however, that the device did not contain topographical maps of the Smolensk airport area, probably due to the fact that it was a military airport which changed its status to a civilian facility only six months before the crash.

A Polish-Russian dilemma

(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-04-25-samolot_katastrofa_smolensk_ap_470.jpeg)

According to Greg Phillip's analysis of the crash, the pilot of the plane attempting to land in low visibility conditions could undertake a "look-see approach," which is basically an instrument approach up to the point when the pilot can continue to land using external visual references.

The look-see approach is considered by pilots to be a very risky maneuver and is generally banned by the FAA on all civilian airports in the US for commercial operators.

A veteran major airline corporate and general aviation pilot, Captain John Cox, indicates, however, that pilots of the Polish Air Force One were aware of the limitations of Smolensk airport and descending in low visibility could use a non-precision approach, which is allowed for presidential aircraft.

The key is to watch the altimeter, and make sure not to go below the minimum descent altitude (MDA) before obtaining visual sight of the runway, says Cox.

Experts agree that it is a difficult maneuver, which often ends with a crash.

In similar circumstances, on October 19, 2004, a Corporate Airlines BAE-J3201 Jetstream struck trees and crashed short of the Kirksville, Missouri Regional Airport runway during a night non-precision instrument approach.

Greg Phillips points to another important question regarding the flight of PLF 101. Why did the pilots circle the airport three times and what happened on board that plane at the time when they decided to make a decision to land against all odds?

"It seems to me that the key to determining the causes of the Polish Air Force One crash will be establishing if the pilot who made the decision to take a look-see approach had the authorization for the risky landing maneuver," says Greg Phillips. He added: "This authorization pertains not only to the pilot himself or a person in charge of the presidential plane but also the airport authority who has jurisdiction over the airport in Smolensk which under existing weather conditions should be closed."

(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-04-25-crash.jpg)


The Mystery of Poland's Presidential Plane Crash Deepens 26 April 2010 (The Huffington Post) http://tinyurl.com/33quak4
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: citizenx on April 27, 2010, 06:49:48 am
Hopefully the Poles will get things all sorted out after June if not before.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Letsbereal on April 27, 2010, 08:15:46 am
Very Strange:

When I first heard of the Polish air plane crash there was a movie on youtube from a journalist taken from his Hotel were he was waiting on the delegation to arrive.

On this movie you could clearly see that one of the two side engines was already on fire before it crashed.

Can’t find the clip any more and it’s no were mentioned not even in the alternative media????

Has anyone else seen this clip?
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Letsbereal on April 27, 2010, 10:25:50 am
deshaked version of the plane crash footage, best image quality i could find
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeFPHDxOXYo
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: carlee on April 27, 2010, 10:41:42 am
deshaked version of the plane crash footage, best image quality i could find
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeFPHDxOXYo
      good clear video thanks
Title: More revealing video
Post by: Femacamper on May 02, 2010, 06:28:45 pm
Digital Enhancement Of Amateur Plane Crash Site Footage (w / English Subtitles) In Smolensk

(http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/FEx7HL4H5yk/1.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk)

The latest one makes a better case for an assassination plot.

This digitally enhanced video does a good job at showing the activity on the ground minutes after the crash at the presidential plane crash site in Poland. Audio translated by a collaborative Facebook effort of Russian, Polish and English native speakers. The zoom-ins are crucial here.
Title: Re: More revealing video
Post by: Viper on May 02, 2010, 06:33:42 pm

..This digitally enhanced video...

Outstanding Fema, it's :

24mb flv
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 640x480 [Video]
Audio: AAC 44100Hz stereo [Audio]
Title: Re: More revealing video
Post by: Femacamper on May 02, 2010, 06:38:00 pm
Outstanding Fema, it's :

24mb flv
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 640x480 [Video]
Audio: AAC 44100Hz stereo [Audio]

Yup...they got a much better source this time. I can't wait to see the results of the investigation. Spread the word, this topic deserves another article up on PrisonPlanet.com.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Viper on May 02, 2010, 07:34:01 pm
Digital Enhancement Of Amateur Plane Crash In Smolensk
24mb flash vid direct download >> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AC5XVUBQ
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on May 02, 2010, 11:30:01 pm
Digital Enhancement Of Amateur Plane Crash In Smolensk
24mb flash vid direct download >> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AC5XVUBQ

Thanks for the downloadable...the original was quite heftier.
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on May 04, 2010, 12:24:58 am
Digital Enhancement Of Amateur Plane Crash Site Footage (w / English Subtitles) In Smolensk

(http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/FEx7HL4H5yk/1.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk)

The latest one makes a better case for an assassination plot.

This digitally enhanced video does a good job at showing the activity on the ground minutes after the crash at the presidential plane crash site in Poland. Audio translated by a collaborative Facebook effort of Russian, Polish and English native speakers. The zoom-ins are crucial here.

Wow! Over 5,300 views in 24 hours!

I really hope these videos spurn an international investigation. The Russian/Polish one is a total whitewash!

I've got another article in the mix itching to go...can hardly wait to see it go live!  ;D
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro
Post by: Femacamper on May 04, 2010, 07:53:18 am
Alright, my master article is complete! :)

Regime Change by Plane Crash
http://www.prisonplanet.com/regime-change-by-plane-crash.html

Thanks for your contributions to this thread, everyone. You're all authors of this.  ;)

The video is up to nearly 10,000 views now.

Please comment in the article so it gathers some more attention.

And while you're at it, check out the 10/4 Facebook group (and join if you like):
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=103590283017486
Title: Re: NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Eu
Post by: Jackson Holly on May 04, 2010, 11:14:26 am


Great job FEMACAMPER!

The Coincidence Theorists are going to have a VERY
difficult time dismissing this article ... if the translations
in the Video are indeed correct there is no other expla