Binghamton - 98 rounds from a 9 and a .45? In a minute? What?

[KarnEvil9]

Who believes this? OK, I've fired both these in the past. I ain't buyin it.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/08/ny.shooting/index.html

NY gunman fired 98 shots in about a minute

earlier version of story said "in one minute"

, police chief says.
Man who killed 13 at immigrant center described as "accomplished marksman"

he must be more than just "accomplished" to fire all those rounds so accurately in "about" a minute!  

87 shots fired from 9 mm pistol and 11 from .45-caliber handgun, chief says

Investigators believe victims died almost instantly, he says

Shooter wore restricted body armor; police investigating how he got it

(CNN) -- The gunman who killed 13 people at an immigrant services center fired 98 shots in a minute or so, the police chief in Binghamton, New York, said Wednesday.

 
Police are trying to determine why Jiverly Wong picked the American Civic Association as his target Friday.

 1 of 3  Jiverly Wong, a 41-year-old Vietnamese immigrant from an ethnic Chinese family, fired 87 shots from a 9 mm pistol and 11 shots from a .45-caliber handgun, Chief Joseph Zikuski told CNN.

Investigators believe the victims died almost instantly, Zikuski said.

Wong was an "accomplished marksman" who frequented a shooting range in Binghamton, the chief said, and he bragged to others that he had fired more than 10,000 rounds.

Wong strode into the American Civic Association on Friday, entered a classroom and started shooting, investigators said.

Wong had been taking English classes at the association, which helps immigrants and refugees from around the world. He was upset about recently losing a job, but police are still trying to determine why he chose to open fire at the association, Zikuski said.

The police chief said that "it's not unreasonable to think" that Wong fired his 98 shots "in just over a minute" before he shot and killed himself in the classroom.

Investigators have found that Wong came to the United States in the late 1980s, lived in Binghamton before moving to California in the early 1990s and returned to Binghamton in July 2007, Zikuski said. He became a U.S. citizen in 1995. He had married and divorced while living in California and had been convicted on a misdemeanor charge of writing bad checks there, the chief said.

At the scene of Friday's shooting, police found two semiautomatic handguns -- a .45-caliber and a 9 mm -- that were licensed to Wong.

Wong had attempted to purchase "a number of firearms," the chief said. Purchasing a gun in New York takes about two weeks, Zikuski said, and Wong would go back to a store during that period, "cancel that order and purchase another one."

Wong also was wearing body armor when he went on his spree, and since New York limits body armor purchases to law enforcement, "We're looking into that," Zikuski said.

The first funerals for the victims were held Sunday afternoon at a local mosque. An interfaith memorial service for all the victims was held Sunday evening, and hundreds of people took part in a candlelight vigil afterward.

"In a strange way," Binghamton Mayor Matthew Ryan said, "this tragedy has brought everyone together (and I'm so stupid I can only speak in cliches.)"

[Unintelligable Name]

restricted body armor

Never heard of restricted body armor.

As for that many shots in that little time, it's very possible. Is it likely? Dunno. He wouldn't hit jack shit if he was shooting that fast, I'll tell you that much. That's spray and pray.

[Monkeypox]

Never heard of restricted body armor.

Well sure, us peons aren't allowed to have high-tech military grade body armor.  They might not be able to kill us quickly enough if we did.

[Dig]

official report HAS to say that they died instantly because the feds forced the cops to wait outside for over 2 hours to ensure mass deaths.

[Unintelligable Name]

Well sure, us peons aren't allowed to have high-tech military grade body armor.  They might not be able to kill us quickly enough if we did.

Like what...?

I can go buy level 4 armor plates right now

In general, yes - for law-abiding folks. A felony conviction makes possession of Body Armor illegal under federal law and in many states.

We have had civilian clients with many different civilian needs for Body Armor  so we understand the need for vests for civilians.  Our policy is to only sell to law-abiding adults who have a lawful purpose for Body Armor. (A parent or guardian may buy for a minor with a legitimate need.)

Residents of Connecticut are prohibited from buying Body Armor unless the sale is face to face (or unless the buyer is a police officer, Police Department, or military). We can't ship to Connecticut, or even accept credit cards billed there...

We cannot ship to residents of Connecticut
who are not police or military.

Some states are considering new legislation to prohibit or restrict sales of Body Armor to civilians, e.g., New York.  If you are in a state that passes such a law, you would be well advised to make your Body Armor purchase now before it becomes much more expensive and inconvenient, if not prohibited altogether

[rawiron1]

They are wondering how he got a hold of "restricted" armor?  I wonder how he killed so many people when murder is restricted as well.  Only the government is allowed to do that!

Jason

[Unintelligable Name]

Could be propaganda to brainwash people into thinking they cannot own Body Armor legally.

[Dig]

I am wondering why they are only asking about the restricted armour instead of asking about the news helicopter overhead before the shooting started.

[Unintelligable Name]

I am wondering why they are only asking about the restricted armour instead of asking about the news helicopter overhead before the shooting started.

 

Now that is interesting

Just like 911 where the planes were stagged so everybody got to see the second impact on television. The News choppers and everything were all there in no time. Then the staged Naudet film to demonstrate the first plane hitting.

Well maybe not just like 911 but the News was there ahead of time... trying to think of another instance of this...

[KarnEvil9]

Never heard of restricted body armor.

As for that many shots in that little time, it's very possible. Is it likely? Dunno. He wouldn't hit jack shit if he was shooting that fast, I'll tell you that much. That's spray and pray.

A buddy of mine who is much more expert in these matters said pretty much the same thing, "possible but not likely", that he could have had 30 round mags but really, to me it just seems a bit more on the unlikely side than the possible/probable.

[xfahctor]

My take is it similar to everyone elses, possible, but not easily done. Although, it was in close quarters, so even a massive random spray with out much carefull aiming would probably have had these kis of deadly results.

[Dig]

I guess we can start compiling a list of anomalies in the official story:

1] The report is 98 bullets in 14 dead and over 26 injured which had at least 3 bullets in each victim (that is 120 bullets if he had 100% accuracy wtf?)

2] News helicopter overhead

3] Sister said he had no guns

4] Sister said could not be his letter due to bad writing skills and not knowing some of the words in the letter.

5] We said it is odd that out of over 700 words he only spelled four wrong (one twice making 5 errors). This is 99% accuracy in spelling from someone who supposed motive for the supposed second worst single person handgun killing spree in the history of mankind. This is very odd and other oddities in his supposed letter are forthcoming.

6] We said the two tones of ink is odd

7] Cops swarmed in under 2 minutes almost as if it was expected

8] Cops are instructed to wait outside for more than 2 hours while many of the victims bled to death

9] Guy who wore body armour supposedly kills himself rather than going out blasting within a few seconds after executing his last victim.

10] Not one scream was heard almost as if first everyone was knocked unconscious with a concussion grenage or other future/avante guard anti-terror weaponry.

11] No suicide note except the one supposedly sent to a news station (similar to cho).

12] All the family and neighbors paint a completely different pictire than 3 mysterious witnesses (is there a body double or something?)

13] Name is first change to meet the profile of an IBM worker, IBM cancels that nonsense

14] Name is then changed again to fit the gun license

15] Report that he lost his wife and kids leaked to a congressman by multiple unnamed sources proves to be complete libel and fraud.

16] Report that he worked at IBM leaked to a congressman by at least 4 unnamed government sources also proves to be complete libel and fraud

17] Original 911 description by the secretary states a 20 year old.

18] Multiple people in custody which seem to more accurately meet the description of the killer are let go without any reported questioning, fingerprinting, etc.

19] Multiple descriptions aregiven of seemingly various gunmen with very different color clothing. This is even admitted by the chief of police in a live interview. Yet within minutes of entering the building 100% of news outlets are forced to run stories of "lone gunman" without any dissent. Almost as if doing so could warrant severe disciplinary action (this to me is the most confusing, there was no investigation - ballistics, foreignsics, fingerprints, call records, surveillance, nothing).


Well that is enough for now, I am sure there is more.

[SlaveState]

Handgun wounds are almost never quickly lethal, especially if it's a single shot to a nonvital area (likely if he was spraying bullets as reported).

So yes, many victims would have essentially bled to death waiting for help that never came.

[Dig]

Handgun wounds are almost never quickly lethal, especially if it's a single shot to a nonvital area (likely if he was spraying bullets as reported).

So yes, many victims would have essentially bled to death waiting for help that never came.

This happened at Columbine and also at Virginia Tech.

And spraying bullets usually does not give you a 100% accuracy in number of hits. 

Also the number of bullets is less than the number of bullet holes. Is Arlen Spector going to have to testify about the magic bullet theory again?

Anyone noticing a pattern?

[Unintelligable Name]

+1000 points for Sane

Definately a pattern, and definately the same agenda as before with Columbine:

Banning guns.

[Dig]

+1000 points for Sane

Definately a pattern, and definately the same agenda as before with Columbine:

Banning guns.

Yup and that is why it went from assault rifle to handguns in the reports.

People here have remarked at how 2-3 trained assassins with assault rifles would more accurately match the evidence thus far.

And it looks like they first tried to say this was an assault rifle issue (supposedly police removed a rifle bag from the 9-11 house).

But looks like they could not find a Voong or a Wong with an assault rifle so they had to go with the handguns (that is just my speculating and showing areas to look deeper into).

[KoWBoY]

Number 9 on that list is one that puzzles me about these shootings. The shooters intentions and actions are homicidal not suicidal.

Excellent list by the way Sane.

[blackturtle.us]

I'd do the experiment to see how many rounds I can squeeze off with my 9mm in a minute, but ammunition is a little pricey!!! Also I have to reload after 55 rounds (split between three cartridges), but something tells me I'd have a tough time doing that much in just sixty seconds. One thing I've noticed is that about one out of twenty rounds tends to be a dud. Maybe it's just the cheap ammo I buy, but I'm suspicious that one out of twenty rounds might be purposely bad just to interrupt rapid fire shooting.

[EchelonMonitor]

Could be propaganda to brainwash people into thinking they cannot own Body Armor legally.

Exactly--make the masses think wearing body armor is against the law.

You can easily buy better armor than most of the troops have.

[Dig]

20] Multiple reports in the beginning (after all of the shooting had stopped) reported 41 hostages and 2-5 dead.  FBI was calling in hostage negotiators.  Who made the report about hostages when the killer(s) supposedly shot himself in the head before the police arrived?  The 911 call said a 20 year old asian shot the two secretaries then went on a shooting rampage without any warning.  Why was there any report about hostages and who made those reports?

21] Various articles mentioned that they were looking for a Vietnamese translator.  This was after cops arrived on the scene and supposedly everyone was already dead.  It was before the cops knew what happened.  Who called for a Vietnamese translator and why?

22] The information about hostages came after 4 people were led out on stretchers as if there was some form of hostage negotiations and then perhaps the killer was killed (who knows).  This also is perplexing.

23] At the same exact time of the shooting (I shit you not), Congress is holding a hearing entitled: "Gun Amendment Threats. Examined by Federal and Local Officials
in Hearing on Homeland Security in the National Capital Region" http://www.norton.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1112&Itemid=88. The area of the shooting is a gun free zone just like DC used to be (is becomming again).

24] National Guard is called in after the shooting is over and goes door to door looking for no one since the killer(s) supposedly already shot himself in the head much earlier.

25] At 1:41 PM is when all information shifted to "lone gunman".  After that only evidence relating to a theory of a "lone gunman" was allowed to be in the press.  This means in less than an hour of storming the facility, the case was solved.  Again no DNA, fingerprints, ballistics, autopsy, toxicology, chemical swabs, foreignsics.  This seems really odd to me.

26] Before mentioning anything about hand guns being found near the body, all that is mentioned is a hunting knife on the body.  That seems odd.

27] No mention of body armour until 5 hours later.  They mention the knife but not body armour? Did they think maybe they could just say a knife caused all of this by supermen or something?

28] Police chief mentions later that two guns are found near the body and a satchel of loose bullets around the neck. This also seems odd given the time frame because even one reload of bullets into a clip takes time.

29] Even though at 1:41 PM this case was solved, there is still a huge investigation going on at the site of the murders.  This investigation is a top secret one and no one who does not hold serious security clearance is allowed anywhere near. The national guard is fully locked and loaded to deal with any threat to this top secret investigation. Why all the coverup, control, and secrecy?  This is really, really funky.

30] Police chief says that the guns match the person Voong because the serial numbers match the registration of a Wong (this is where the name odly changes a third time). He also says that prints of the body match prints of the registration (this is odd also, was the head blown off? why was this necessary?).  Then comes the really amazing part: When the chief of police is asked to elaborate about the fingerprints issue in detail concerning somthing very important, he seems to defy all laws of police work for the last 60 years.  The reporter asks whether the fingerprints on the supposed murder weapons match the fingerprints on the dead body being called the killer.  The Police Chief states that the supposed murder weapons were never tested for prints.  I find that this issue demonstrates a pattern in the ivestigation of forcing round pegs into square holes.

More to come....

[Orgetorix]

Looks like we have a world record on our hands here. Gotta be faster than this guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og9ccsb1v6o#

[Magnumpi]

5] We said it is odd that out of over 100 words he only spelled one wrong.

Not to discount the point, but he had suddenly=sunddenly, message=massage X2, unbreathable=unbreathble, unemployment=unemploment.

Now, that said, his spelling is vastly superior to 90% of forum posters, here and elsewhere. Moreover, he spelled out eighteen, eight and seven, then used numbers the rest of the note. Over the first usage of give, is a peculiar line, and when compared to: http://media.ny1.com/media/2009/4/6/images/letterb4545273-cee1-4f13-b649-3128f096249b.jpg The text shows evidence of editing by somebody, most notably the black smudge on line 4 of paragraph 2, before selfish. And what really bugs me is, they keep cropping the pictures more and more. http://images.news10now.com/media/2009/4/6/images/01letterstuff.jpg Have there been any large pictures of the actual photos?

[Dig]

Not to discount the point, but he had suddenly=sunddenly, message=massage X2, unbreathable=unbreathble, unemployment=unemploment.

Now, that said, his spelling is vastly superior to 90% of forum posters, here and elsewhere. Moreover, he spelled out eighteen, eight and seven, then used numbers the rest of the note. Over the first usage of give, is a peculiar line, and when compared to: http://media.ny1.com/media/2009/4/6/images/letterb4545273-cee1-4f13-b649-3128f096249b.jpg The text shows evidence of editing by somebody, most notably the black smudge on line 4 of paragraph 2, before selfish. And what really bugs me is, they keep cropping the pictures more and more. http://images.news10now.com/media/2009/4/6/images/01letterstuff.jpg Have there been any large pictures of the actual photos?

Thanks for the correction. I made the change in the opriginal post.

Here are the original pictures:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2ps545t.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/123ayaf.jpg

I would save them locally just in case.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also you can look at the vtech supposed lone gunman and 10 pages of his nonsense:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

[gEEk squad]

Wong also was wearing body armor when he went on his spree, and since New York limits body armor purchases to law enforcement, "We're looking into that," Zikuski said.

Oops.

[Unintelligable Name]

Oops.

1. A person is guilty of the unlawful wearing of a body vest when acting either alone or with one or more other persons he commits any violent felony offense defined in section 70.02 while possessing a firearm, rifle or shotgun and in the course of and in furtherance of such crime he wears a body vest.

Yeah it's illegal all right, but not to own or buy, just to wear while holding a gun while commiting a violent felony and or just simply a violent crime [I guess]

 

The laws make me laugh.

Federal law precludes anyone convicted of a violent felony from possessing body armor

New York and several other states also have made it a felony for someone to wear body armor while committing a violent crime or using a weapon.

Companies that sell body armor do not need any special licenses, nor are they required to run background checks. The onus is on the buyer to be truthful about his past, said Nick Taylor, manager of BulletProofME, an Austin, Texas-based company.

"There's no legal requirement, but it's good business practice to be careful who you are selling to," Taylor said

[Unintelligable Name]

Thanks for the correction. I made the change in the opriginal post.

Here are the original pictures:

This letter is pretty strange. What the hell is he talking about? Undercover cops break into his house and would ?touch him? and steal 20$, and use a stun gun on him while he was sleeping?

His television channel changed wouldn't change the channel but adjusting the ceiling fan? The cop put chemicals in his house that made him vomit? "For connect music in my ear?" What?

[nofakenews]

98 shots in N.Y. rampage spurs ammo debate

Gun rights advocates argue that cheap ammunition is important for people who frequently practice to be responsible gun owners.

"Most often, the argument for gun control, for ammo control, for magazine control, is an emotional argument, " said John Mercer, vice president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association, which has lobbied for gun owners' rights. "Isn't it terrible that we had somebody walk into a store or a college campus and create mayhem? Well, it is terrible, but if you penalize 99.9 percent of the people that do own firearms and are responsible, have you really gained anything?"

Zikuski said it was not known if any of the students tried to fight back. Their desks faced away from the door Wong used to enter the classroom full of immigrants learning English.

"We will never know that," he said. "There was no indication ... it happened so quickly, they had little time to react. He walked in there shooting. Nobody really had any time."

Pistol permit
Police have said Wong had been practicing shooting at a local firing range in recent weeks.

Wong had a New York state pistol permit, first obtained in 1997, with the two handguns used in the shooting registered to it.

In the recordings obtained by WBNG, a male voice says early reports are the gunman is dead. Zikuski said the recordings were authentic — he's on them at several points — but that someone recorded police radio transmissions and the recordings were not released by the county.

"If you have any contact with people in that building, they think the assailant may have did himself," the man says on the recording.

"So if you talk to anybody, tell them to stay put until the police come and get em."

A female voice is later heard saying, "That's affirmative, two victims, female, gunshot wound to the abdomen under a desk on the first floor and a subject laying on the ground in front of the reception area, unknown male or female, unknown life status."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30106068/

[Monkeypox]

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20090408/D97EIE100.html

98 shots from "new Rambo" spurs ammo debate

By WILLIAM KATES

BINGHAMTON, N.Y. (AP) - The man who gunned down 13 people at an upstate New York immigration center fired 98 shots from two handguns in a little more than a minute, police said Wednesday, a gunslinging feat one expert said would make him a "new Rambo."

Gun control advocates said if a man who complained about not getting enough in unemployment benefits could afford enough ammunition to repeatedly practice shooting and go into his killing zone with a satchel of bullets around his neck, new ways are needed to stem gun violence, including raising the price of ammunition.

Ballistics reports showed Jiverly Wong fired 87 times from a 9mm Beretta and 11 times from a .45-caliber handgun. If he bought the ammunition online, he could have paid as little as $40 for the rounds he fired.

Friends say Wong complained that he only received $200 a week in unemployment benefits.

"Chris Rock says in one of his routines - have all the guns you want but charge like $1,000 for every bullet," said Jackie Hilly of New Yorkers Against Gun Violence. "I think if you raised the price, you would probably discourage the violence, but I don't think you would prevent it."

Police said almost all 13 victims died instantly. Four others were wounded but survived. Wong, 41, killed himself as police were rushing to the scene. He was found with a satchel containing several full ammunition clips.

Police have speculated that Wong, who was ethnically Chinese but was from Vietnam, was angry over losing a job at a vacuum cleaner manufacturer and frustrated about his poor English-language skills.

"I asked our range officer and he said easily in a minute you could rip off 98 rounds," said Police Chief Joseph Zikuski. "Our range people tell us it was over in a minute, a minute and a half. It doesn't take long. Especially, it's our understanding that he was an accomplished marksman."

Dan Kash, the owner of LAX Firing Range in Inglewood, Calif., was dubious that Wong fired that many rounds in the time police say he did.

"He'd have to be super-proficient because he's walking and shooting, and shooting probably moving targets," Kash said. "Either it took a lot longer than what cops are saying, or this guy is more than just the average Joe. Unless the guy is some type of super gunslinger, no, he's not going to be able to do that."

Kash said it would take more than just practice on a shooting range and suggested combat training or military experience would be needed to be that fast and accurate. There is no record of Wong serving in the military.

"He'd have to be a new Rambo, basically," Kash said.

Wong, wearing a bulletproof vest, barged into the center Friday morning and started shooting. Two employees and 11 immigrants taking an English class died in the assault.

Meanwhile, recordings posted on the Web site ScanAmerica.us, reveal some of the communications between dispatchers and police on the scene.

At one point, officers on the scene were told about the vehicle Wong used to block a door at the rear of the building.

"Be advised guys, you may have somebody come out the back door, so keep alert," says a man's voice.

"This door's barricaded with the, uh, suspect's vehicle," is the answer from the scene.

"Use cover, don't ... don't do anything foolish back there," the first voice replies.

The rampage left the small classroom in ruins, Zikuski said. Desks were found flipped over and bullet holes riddled the space, he said.

"It was very tight close quarters. The room was in mayhem. There was not a lot of moving around the room. We do know he began firing as soon as he got to the doorway because there's casings right at the doorway," Zikuski said.

Police found full magazine clips on the ground inside the center, suggesting Wong had dropped them while reloading. Police found an empty clip that had the capacity for 30 bullets. A laser sight was also found at the scene.

Gun rights advocates argue that cheap ammunition is important for people who frequently practice to be responsible gun owners.

"Most often, the argument for gun control, for ammo control, for magazine control, is an emotional argument, " said John Mercer, vice president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association, which has lobbied for gun owners' rights. "Isn't it terrible that we had somebody walk into a store or a college campus and create mayhem? Well, it is terrible, but if you penalize 99.9 percent of the people that do own firearms and are responsible, have you really gained anything?"

Zikuski said it was not known if any of the students tried to fight back. Their desks faced away from the door Wong used to enter the classroom full of immigrants learning English.

"We will never know that," he said. "There was no indication ... it happened so quickly, they had little time to react. He walked in there shooting. Nobody really had any time."

Police have said Wong had been practicing shooting at a local firing range in recent weeks.

Wong had a New York state pistol permit, first obtained in 1997, with the two handguns used in the shooting registered to it.

In the recordings initially reported by WBNG-TV in Binghamton, a male voice says early reports are the gunman is dead. Zikuski said the recordings were authentic - he's on them at several points - but were not released by the county.

"If you have any contact with people in that building, they think the assailant may have did himself," the man says on the recording. But there's still enough doubt to warrant caution: "So if you talk to anybody, tell them to stay put until the police come and get 'em."

A female voice is later heard saying, "That's affirmative, two victims, female, gunshot wound to the abdomen under a desk on the first floor and a subject laying on the ground in front of the reception area, unknown male or female, unknown life status."

Police and dispatchers talk about people hiding in other parts of the center.

"Students are in a basement, students who were taking classes in a basement classroom," says a woman, apparently an emergency dispatcher.

"If you can communicate with any of them, have them lock their doors," a man responds.

"There's no locks on the door, I'm trying to get them to use something to barricade," she responds.

A few minutes later, a female voice describes the suspect, an Asian man in his 20s, wearing a green jacket and black glasses.

Police are heard mobilizing the SWAT team, running the license plate on Wong's car, blocking traffic, calling for a floor plan of the building and getting updates on the people in hiding.

"Most of the subjects are in the basement, about 30 of them, unable to barricade that door. There's no furniture," a female dispatcher says.

The first calls to 911 came at 10:30 a.m. Police arriving on the scene at 10:33 a.m. did not hear any shots.

One of the surviving victims was released from a local hospital Tuesday and three others were reported in stable condition at another hospital Wednesday morning.

New York senators Charles Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand said Wednesday they will introduce legislation in Congress to grant honorary citizenship to the victims.

[chris jones]

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20090408/D97EIE100.html

98 shots from "new Rambo" spurs ammo debate

By WILLIAM KATES

BINGHAMTON, N.Y. (AP) - The man who gunned down 13 people at an upstate New York immigration center fired 98 shots from two handguns in a little more than a minute, police said Wednesday, a gunslinging feat one expert said would make him a "new Rambo."


My take, 3 men involved.
What is necessary is the truthfull testimony of the survivors.
Strange, I have not heard one word about this. Doubt we will.

The tragedy is that the majority of our citizens will smoke this shiite, for fu**kkk sake the SM's are still waiting to hear about the WMD stash in Iraq.

FTG, FTP, FK them all the long the short and the tall. How in the name of God could these cops surround this building knowing people were criticaly wounded and stand down for 2 hours. Doesn't that about say it all. not quite, this man suicided, sure he did, thats exactly why he wore body armor. Makes sence huh.

The bag of bullets around his neck, thats a pip, he knocks out 98 bullets in a minute with  semi autos, precise kill points suposedly, Cant Fn beleive the shit they give us.

Whoever put this show together was a newbe, but one with clout from on high.

I am sure of one fact, the power and their lakeys would not piszz in our mouths if our teeth were on fire.

I continue to wonder what the big dogs have said to the survivors, are they gagged, have they been mind bent, threatened.
Trama cases are fair game for head twisting on details, however there exists a breed of people who know what they saw, will not be bent. 

[Lilly Bighorn]

official report HAS to say that they died instantly because the feds forced the cops to wait outside for over 2 hours to ensure mass deaths.

or the feds swept up the place and "took care" of the merely injured, hence the high shot count. 

[CarolinaWildcat]

A buddy of mine who is much more expert in these matters said pretty much the same thing, "possible but not likely", that he could have had 30 round mags but really, to me it just seems a bit more on the unlikely side than the possible/probable.

Hubby said he could buy it if Voong had weapons training,said he could(army vietnam vet).I dont think Voong had ever been military unless as a kid before he even came to the states.Hmmm, back that up a minute I need to check how old he was came here.

[Dig]

or the feds swept up the place and "took care" of the merely injured, hence the high shot count. 

I think that is much less likely because there would be too many witnesses.  The cops that went in I think were from a small town and this was an international operation most likely.

[starvosan]

Wong... fired 87 shots from a 9 mm pistol

I love how these shooters always fire a huge number of shots from semiautomatic pistols yet never seem to suffer a jam.  I'm no expert, but the semi-automatic pistols I have fired always seem to plug at some point, either from a magazine feed problem or an ejected shell getting caught in the slide.  And after two dozen shots that 9mm would have gotten hotter than hell, making a jam all the more likely.

[CarolinaWildcat]

This happened at Columbine and also at Virginia Tech.

And spraying bullets usually does not give you a 100% accuracy in number of hits. 

Also the number of bullets is less than the number of bullet holes. Is Arlen Spector going to have to testify about the magic bullet theory again?

Anyone noticing a pattern?

Yes and I have the sudden urge to scream.I had thought after VT but my mind wouldn't let me go there.No choice with this evidence.

[Orgetorix]

Only way he gets off 98 round in "1" minute is if he's Jerry Miculek with a custom made .357 revolver, and a whole belt of quick reloads. Case Closed, Multiple Shooters, Government Black Op. 

[cueball7]

I love how these shooters always fire a huge number of shots from semiautomatic pistols yet never seem to suffer a jam.  I'm no expert, but the semi-automatic pistols I have fired always seem to plug at some point, either from a magazine feed problem or an ejected shell getting caught in the slide.  And after two dozen shots that 9mm would have gotten hotter than hell, making a jam all the more likely.

I can vouch for that! It would most certainly jam.

[ramallamamama]

Only way he gets off 98 round in "1" minute is if he's Jerry Miculek with a custom made .357 revolver, and a whole belt of quick reloads. Case Closed, Multiple Shooters, Government Black Op. 

Hmm... wonder if Mr Miculek has an alibi? 

[donnay]

One thing I am confused over is why would a guy intended to take his life wear body armor?

[RollerCam]

I love how these shooters always fire a huge number of shots from semiautomatic pistols yet never seem to suffer a jam.  I'm no expert, but the semi-automatic pistols I have fired always seem to plug at some point, either from a magazine feed problem or an ejected shell getting caught in the slide.  And after two dozen shots that 9mm would have gotten hotter than hell, making a jam all the more likely.

No. It doesn't work like that.

Take any modern, well made pistol loaded with good quality ammo and you can easily fire hunrdreds of rounds without a single jam or malfunction. Heat is rarely a factor, at least until the gun is literally smoking/glowing dull red.

Often, when a brand new pistol is introduced by a manufacturer, a firearm tester/writer will do a "torture test" where they fire case after case of ammo until the first "failure to fire."

It often takes thousands of rounds until something breaks or malfunctions.

[Unintelligable Name]

Literally never had my Glock jam, but I use decent ammo and don't spray lead.

It can spray lead without a hiccup though -- not sure about 98 rounds in a minute though, I don't have that many mags!