DISINFO CORNER: NO PLANES / VIDEO FAKERY / SPACE LASERS

[grapecrusher1]

finally he stopped chirping.

[mr anderson]

finally he stopped chirping.

Not saying he's a government blogger but just as annoying.

[Size10]

Postscript to the story:

Jim Fetzer's show "The Real Deal" was abruptly canceled by FU Radio minutes before he was to broadcast on Thursday. Fetzer called in to the Jack Blood Show a couple hours later, and received a serious smackdown from Blood.

I tried posting a link to the Thursday show, but there is no file for it. Check here later...

http://www.freedomundergroundradio.com/Blood_09.html

[Capt. Obvious]

What a bunch of idiots!

I can't stand either of these guys.

[grapecrusher1]

What a gong show.

[Jesus Murphy]

Prison Planet.....ask yourself which industry has more Jews, the media or the military, LOL.

...Yes, and making blatant statements like that one is a sure fire way to get this site shut down, should any minions of the ADL or AIPAC happen to pop in for a visit...

What a maroon... Stick to reading your Pluto, I mean Plato, old sport...

[newspresenter]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4WzF8_x0no&feature=related

Notice the white dot on the right, what is it?

[Atomgrad]

Which white dot on the right?

The one that remains a constant straightish line and travels across the screen blinking in and out of the cameras vision?

Or the thing that fly`s out of WTC and plummets towards the ground?

[grapecrusher1]

Notice the white dot on the right, what is it?

  A bird, a plane, paper, reflection, a lazer pointed guidance system, who knows?  Maybe its Superma....  (couldn't resist)
 take a look at the rest of the thread.

[jimd3100]

 
I, for one, dont think the pentagon was hit by a 757.
This is based on pilots for truths movies(highly recommended expert input)

Uh....their sole reason for existing is to promote the idea of no plane at the pentagon. A big plane hitting the pentagon puts them out of business....and makes people who buy this stuff look rather silly...
http://www.cafepress.com/911pilots

Pilots for truth? Or self preservation?

analysis of the crash scene (really where are the engines?),

What does this look like?

I've read Hoffmann's analysis and find it weak.

You show in your own post that instead of dismissing the research of possibly the top 9/11 researcher there is(Hoffman) you should be paying more attention to it as he exposes one of the no plane cointel myths you've fallen for.....

 

The pentagon had one big puncture in it through 4 of its rings (i think it was 4), if it had two it would be more plausible.

It only went through two walls.....
This argument is based on a misunderstanding of the Pentagon's design. In fact, the light wells between the C- and D-ring and D- and E-ring are only three stories deep.
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/punchout.html

Also
http://www.pentagonresearch.com/118.html

Why do Hoffman and others believe a big plane hit? Are we really "cointel" agents out to fool you? No, you're being fooled by the no plane garbage and by people who have a interest in convincing you a plane didn't hit for their own reasons.

What if I said, I don't care what Willie Rodriguez says he witnessed at the WTC. The witnesses at the WTC don't matter, they are unreliable, and it should be ignored. Pretty silly isn't it? Why don't detectives arriving at the scene of a crime tell the people who were there and saw what happened to go away? They don't care what they witnessed? That would be pretty silly wouldn't it? So why do some people say, it doesn't matter what the witnesses say at the pentagon? Pretty silly isn't it? There was more wreckage found of a large plane at the pentagon than the world trade center. And lots of witnesses. What did they say? You have no excuse for not knowing it's all been done for you.

This person (a truther)has gathered as many witness statements as he can find and compiled them for you. Now as a researcher who is honestly interested in what happened how could you not want to see it? It's right here....
http://web.archive.org/web/20061130004634/eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html

also...
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html

After reading these accounts, what can you conclude? I conclude a plane hit...a big one....Loose change producer K Rowe has come to the same conclusion as seen here....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3634801432278945026&hl=en

Does that mean the official story is true? Hardly! How do you think those planes flew into the WTC? Well,....if the WTC was packed with explosives they had to be controlled by something other than crazy hijackers flying jets for the first time because you can't risk these planes not hitting their targets. And the pentagon proves it because the retard that was supposed to fly that plane was an incometent f**k.

The official story tells us that he was an experienced pilot that turned into one of the worlds greatest pilots....Bush in the 9/11 commission report says he was very impressed by his flying skills. He did this........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_hk&feature=related
So much for the idea large passenger jets can't fly a few feet off the ground...but this was an expert. Hani Hanjour was not.

Hani Hanjour went out of his way to hit the one spot of the building that was the least populated, and opposite of the high brass. How? Well......

"Radar shows Flight 77 did a downward spiral, turning almost a complete circle and dropping the last 7,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes.

The steep turn was so smooth, the sources say, it's clear there was no fight for control going on. And the complex maneuver suggests the hijackers had better flying skills than many investigators first believed."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/national/main310721.shtml

See? The guy was a regular Chuck Yeager.    No--he wasn't this is just proof these planes were not being controlled by the hijackers.....me and Hoffman are not "agents"...we want to take their story, and hang them with it.

[Size10]

Here's some more ass-hattery and general fallout from the Ace Baker fake suicide and Jim Fetzer losing his show on WFURadio:

http://www.jackbloodforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&p=119936

[Atomgrad]

After reading these accounts, what can you conclude? I conclude a plane hit...a big one....Loose change producer K Rowe has come to the same conclusion as seen here....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3634801432278945026&hl=en

Interesting film, particularly if you listen to it on headfones like I just have.

19.00, about 4 seconds after the graphic glitch, somebody near the camera mic whispers to his friend, "Is that the guy?", the other guy whispers " Yeah", first guy whispers back "He`s crazy, conspiracy .." and it tails off after that, it`s either `theory` or `theorist`.

You can make it out on speaker too, well, the "He`s crazy" part anyway.Though I have to point out I am listening through the same srereo that I use to write my tunes. Considering it comes during the part when he`s talking about disinfo, you have to wonder how it got there. Is it accidental, or intentional? It`s certainly convenient timing.

Anybody else hear it?

[grapecrusher1]

quote from Jimd3100

"Why do Hoffman and others believe a big plane hit? Are we really "cointel" agents out to fool you? No, you're being fooled by the no plane garbage and by people who have a interest in convincing you a plane didn't hit for their own reasons."

I will take a closer look at what you have provided. 

Relax on the cointel insinuations.  We as a group are far ahead of the masses on this subject and some of us are further ahead then others.  The purpose of this forum is discussion right?

[jimd3100]

quote from Jimd3100
Relax on the cointel insinuations.  We as a group are far ahead of the masses on this subject and some of us are further ahead then others.  The purpose of this forum is discussion right?

You are absolutely correct! And I in no way meant to imply anything at all towards you. But if 9/11 was indeed an inside job or aspects of it were, you better believe a 9/11 truth movement would be hit with disInfo. And it seems to me it's been walloped with it. But 99.999% of disinfo is spread by folks who are not "agents" but truthers who have been duped. That's how it works....I welcome any debate or disagreement, and frankly encourage it..I do not censure unless someone constantly cusses me out and makes accusations, or insists victims of 9/11 are actually perps.

[Dig]

TV fakery - $10M
Mainstream media empire - $Trillions
Knowing that you can blame everything on the Jews - Priceless

-------------------------------------------------------------

That post was fricking priceless!

[xfahctor]

I'm still not sure what the video is trying to say, or what the suposed laser was trying to guide, but the whole point is moot, the video is garbage because the fact remains, the lense mentioned in the video WAS NOT EVEN MADE UNTIL 2007 and isn't an infared lense the guy didn't know what the hell he was talking about. He stuck up a video, put a bunch of junk science in to it and hoped no one would look any further than that. why is this thread even still going?

[Atomgrad]

I think the threads still going because we stopped talking about the original video and started discussing other stuff instead. If you read the posts, you`ll see that you are the only one actually talking about the original post.

Our anti semitic friend hijacked the thread a long time ago with his badly drawn Jewish hologram plane theory. His theory was so well shot down that it`s become a `We all agree that planes hit the WTC, but disagree on what hit the Pentagon" thread instead.

Jim D and Sane believe it was the plane, Grapecrusher does not, I`m undecided on the issue and I`m checking out the videos incase I`m wrong. I hadn`t considered the idea that it was remote controlled like the others, but I still can`t get past the tiny hole it left behind and the intact facia that stayed that way for half an hour.

Newspresenter posted a different video, mentioned a white dot and hasn`t explained which white dot he`s reffering to.

The only thing we all seem to agree on, including DavidIg, is that the first video is wrong, even the original poster had his doubts about it.

Thanks for the information about the time travelling lens though, even though you haven`t posted a link to prove your point. I don`t know if you`ve noticed, but on here, it helps if you post a link to proof before anyone will accept anything you say, disinfo and all that.

Link to the lens the original film claims was used.
http://www.dyxum.com/columns/articles/lenses/SAL-1680CZ/Carl-zeiss-16-80-SAL-1680CZ_review.asp

There was a long gap between the announcement and the final product becoming available on the market. Initially planned to be released in the last quarter of 2006, availability status was postponed to April 2007

[grapecrusher1]

You are absolutely correct! And I in no way meant to imply anything at all towards you. But if 9/11 was indeed an inside job or aspects of it were, you better believe a 9/11 truth movement would be hit with disInfo. And it seems to me it's been walloped with it. But 99.999% of disinfo is spread by folks who are not "agents" but truthers who have been duped. That's how it works....I welcome any debate or disagreement, and frankly encourage it..I do not censure unless someone constantly cusses me out and makes accusations, or insists victims of 9/11 are actually perps.

Looked deeper into what you have presented and have explored 911review entirely.  It is provocative and disturbing, some of which i will reserve for later discussion.  But to make one observation now.
#1  you have rightly pointed out the proper configuration of the pentagon -- there isnt spaces between the outer 3 rings on the first 3 levels.  The ground floor contines for all 3 rings without walls --- very important and not clear up til now.
 

[jimd3100]

But the biggest question of all which really hasn't been a major talking point amongst the 9/11 truth movement (Correct me if I'm wrong). The failure of anti-aircraft missile batteries and proximity alerts at the Pentagon. To me this is as important as WTC 7.

This is a very good point. It would seem that the pentagon would be protected. However, we can not prove that it had anti-aircraft missile batteries on 9/11. If anyone can prove it, please do.

The authorities have seemed to covered themselves well on this as can be seen from the following.....

"WASHINGTON – Defense Department officials actually considered a terrorist scenario in which Islamic fundamentalist martyrs crashed planes into the otherwise impregnable Pentagon, but they ruled out countermeasures, such as anti-aircraft batteries and radar, as too costly and too dangerous to surrounding residential areas, a senior Pentagon official specializing in counterterrorism told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview."

"What's more, the airspace over the Pentagon, which is next to Reagan National Airport, is heavy with flight traffic, making engagement of threatening commercial aircraft too risky, the official says."
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24426

Not to mention this...

According to the Defense Department’s book about the Pentagon attack:

"The Pentagon did not have an antiaircraft system on the roof of the building or on the grounds. Even if DPS had received word of an inbound plane, it had no plan to counter a suicide air attack. Had a warning been issued in time, DPS’s only effective response would have been evacuation and dispersal of the building’s occupants.”   page 152
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0160783283/centerforcoop-20

As we know, they didn't sound any alarms or evacuate anybody......

However this little nugget slipped out on this rather interesting article....

"If the airliner had approached much nearer to the White House it might have been shot down by the Secret Service, who are believed to have a battery of ground-to-air Stinger missiles ready to defend the president's home."

"The Pentagon is not similarly defended. "We are an open society," said a military official. "We don't have soldiers positioned on the White House lawn and we don't have the Pentagon ringed with bunkers and tanks."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1340698/Israeli-security-issued-urgent-warning-to-CIA-of-large-scale-terror-attacks.html

If the white house is indeed protected by stinger missiles, those missiles were well within range to take out the aircraft as can be seen here....

Stinger Stats
Here are the stats on the Stinger missile:
Length - 5 feet (1.5 meters)
Diameter - 2.75 inches (7 cm)
Weight - 22 pounds (10 kg)
Weight with launcher - 34.5 pounds (15.2 kg)
Explosives - 2.2 pounds, impact fuze (explodes on contact with target)
Speed - 1,500 mph (2,400 kph, Mach 2)
Altitude Range - Approximately 11,000 feet (3 km)
Distance Range - Approximately 5 miles (8 km)
http://science.howstuffworks.com/stinger3.htm

As mapquest shows to drive from the whitehouse to the pentagon is less than 3 1/2 miles....missiles would not take the bridge..and turns...it would  be a straight shot, so considerably less than 3.5 miles......well within range of these missiles...

Total Estimated Time: 8 minutes
Total Estimated Distance: 3.47 miles
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1a=1600+Pennsylvania+Ave+Nw&1z=20500&2c=Arlington&2s=VA&2a=Army+Navy+Dr+%26+S+Fern+St&2z=22202

Gov. apologists and debunkers will claim this is all Monday morning Quarterbacking, however the fact is the Pentagon was struck nearly an hour after the attacks started giving them plenty of time to protect the nations most important buildings, which you would think would be a no brainer.

[grapecrusher1]

This is your personal crusade, eh?
I do agree, now, the "no plane hit the pentagon" tact is dangerous and could seriously jeopardize the credibility of the movement.    If, indeed, the perpetrators have used the pentagon strike as a psychological operation of doublethink and illusion, it shows a level of sophistication that boggles the mind.   The divulgence of choice information at strategic junctures could derail the very legitimate concerns surrounding the WTC's.  The scrubbing of the crime scene, the lack of record both film, written, and photo has created an environment of speculation.  Where are the plane's chairs?, bodies?, what was in that tarped box?.    Was it flight 77?  So many questions which i think is the safer approach (than claiming no plane) to this subject --  which i believe jimd3100 is highlighting.

[mr anderson]

I still believe any attack on the Pentagon was deliberately allowed to proceed, this includes air defences and to say with no pictures is no proof etc is not a way to confirm they wouldn't have them at the worlds premiere building for the most powerful military yet.

There would have to be a final layer of security for the Pentagon. NORAD failed first and are we to believe it was just that easy to hit that building? 

 

[matrixcutter]

I saw a video on youtube which was anchorman and woman talking to a reporter live in New York, after the first plane had hit.

During the conversation, we saw pictures of the second plane hitting, but there was no sound of a plane coming from the live feed in New York.  And the reporter in New York did not seem to know what happened.  The anchorman told him that it was definitely a plane and we definitely saw it, and there was something about his insistence that seemed rehearsed.  But it's all speculation.

As you said, there's no need to go into this, and there's not really much point.  The most likely result of discussing the No Planes theory is to put people off all 9/11 truth, or the entire bigger picture in general (even if it happens to be true).  It is interesting though, that within "the 9/11 truth movement" this theory has essentially been dismissed as disgusting nonsense (or at least it used to be) as opposed to examining the evidence first and then making your decisions based on that.

[xTruthSeekerx]

*facepalm*

okay explain why people seen a plane hit the towers

[lovealexjones]

i've seen that movie, and yes there seems some media anomalities, but don't start saying that
there wern't no planes, a missile at the pentagon? why not, but the towers were hit by planes
with something on their bellys.
Respect

[BlueBaron]

Planes hit, live with it.

[Scootle]

i dismiss the theories coz plane wreckage was found

Now i guess its possible that plane debris was planted in the tower in advance and exploded out, but then you have the videos...

i find it hard to believe that every single video of the south tower impact was edited including the amateur ones where people are looking out of their window following the plane with their camera and reacting to the impact.

Unless there were plane images but they were holograms...

Which just sounds even more rediculous.

[xTruthSeekerx]

mixing lies with truth is what disinfo/government plants do and your falling for it

[Phil R.]

The quality of live video feeds wasn't that great during broadcast, which might explain the absence of a plane in one or more shots.

[Geolibertarian]

I'm with Alex on this one: the "no planes" theory was concocted by government disinfo agents for the express purpose of giving 9/11 truth a bad name.

Note: I'm not saying that anyone who entertains this theory is therefore an agent, just that that's how it originated.

[GoingEtheric]

But does that mean the footage we saw was real?

ahh chris, you disappointment me.

[lovealexjones]

you got the plane impact damage on the sides of the buildings, and come on,
unless you got some new info on this subject it's best to leave it alone,
though i do respect your deep-digging on the matter.

[matrixcutter]

I'll say this: I wouldn't put it past them to cover up the entire day with fake footage.

I wouldn't either.
And I wouldn't put it past them to have used "magic" that day - as defined by masonic paedophile and predictive programmer Arthur C. Clarke i.e. science that is not yet understood (or even known about, by the general public).

It was an inside job.  That much is obvious, to those who have assessed the freely available evidence, from before, during and after the day itself.

The occultic fingerprints are too much for some people - the ritual sacrifice of thousands of people inside a giant Jachin and Boaz, and then the Pentagon (the inside of a pentagram) was also involved, although most of the people in there were "protected" - and no planes might be too much for people too.

If there were people in New York who did see planes (which is not the same as people saying they saw planes) and if the live footage can be shown to have been editted, then something strange must have happened.

Another point of interest to me, is that one of the most high profile "9/11 truthers" who went on to talk about the no planes theory, now claims he is the messiah.
http://uk.youtube.com/user/ShaylerTV

[oyashango]

I am glad this subject has come up again. I am still not at peace with the "commerical airline" plane speculation.
Here again, I captured the plane going into the second tower, and it still does not look like a commerical airline.
It looks to me like an auto-piloted figher jet. Can anyone please identify this plane?

[xTruthSeekerx]

I am glad this subject has come up again. I am still not at peace with the "commerical airline" plane speculation.
Here again, I captured the plane going into the second tower, and it still does not look like a commerical airline.
It looks to me like an auto-piloted figher jet. Can anyone please identify this plane?

photoshop it looks

[oyashango]

No. This was not photoshop. I captured this from the acutal news footage myself. I enlarged it to see it better.

[lovealexjones]

No. This was not photoshop. I captured this from the acutal news footage myself. I enlarged it to see it better.

watch "911 in plane site", the extended version and you'll find out which type of planes
most likely hit the towers.

[kingp43]

source of the footage?    

[Optimus]

Cruise missles have wings, tailwings and look very similiar to planes.

Cruise missile comparison: Note their size to an average man




757 passenger plane:



There is no similarity or comparison between a cruise missile or passenger plane. People generally recognize a passenger plane when they see one. 

[lovealexjones]

can't we cut this crap and go back to the show?

[xTruthSeekerx]

yeah that looks photoshop