Burning salt water.

[thought_criminal]

 I'm a life long student of science and technology.
 I looked into the whole "burning salt water" thing. It's a neat trick, BUT... it uses WAY more energy to cause that neato display, than it releases.

  It's simple thermodynamics. Assuming you have 1 gallon of water...  and you apply these particular microwave freqs and cause it to "burn"
  The energy that is put into causing the water to split into hydrogen and oxygen is greater than what you could ever extract from it's "burning" back into water.

  It's like saying... I can use 2 units of energy to lift this bowling ball 10 feet into the air, and while droping it releases 1 unit of energy.
 
  It's a neato parlor trick, but has no use whatsoever when it comes to providing energy to the masses.

  I for one espouse patented but not widely known (not the definition you know, but the same energy source) methods for extracting tidal / geothermal energy.

   
 

[Jackson Holly]

I've wondered about the burning water stories - and I have seen the videos.

BUT... it uses WAY more energy to cause that neato display, than it releases.

Why does it take so much energy to generate the sound waves? And are there other more efficient ways to generate the waves?

[thought_criminal]

  The microwave generator he uses is an energy sopping monster.
 
  Even if the efficiency of the microwave radiation vs the liberation of hydrogen oxygen were 99%...  you STILL
 loose 1% energy when re-burning the H-O to it's original state.... and you could NEVER harness 100% of the resultant energy.
  Net result... you loose energy.  Sorry, physics lies down for no man... that's what woke me up... realizing that the official government story of 911
violates the laws of physics.

[nustada]

I've wondered about the burning water stories - and I have seen the videos.

Why does it take so much energy to generate the sound waves? And are there other more efficient ways to generate the waves?

Well, every experiment ever done has below unity efficiency.

Think about it in a loop. Electricity is use to make a wave, using the wave to split water and heat to generate the flame, then using the flame and heat to boil water, then using the steam to turn a tubine, producing HEAT and electricity. The heat from each step leaks into the environment and become useless, all energy conversions produce useless heat.

Now the important question is not whether it works or not, but is it more efficient that classic high surface area electrode hydrolysis.

Now I am not against hydrogen technology, as eventually it may be a good way to store energy from other sources, so whatever advances there are in hydrolysis is good.

[Jackson Holly]

Is it less efficient than drilling fossil fuels up from thousands of feet under the surface, shipping it in mega~tankers half way around the world, refining it into usable gasoline, trucking it more thousands of miles to distribution points and burning it in a 19th century-designed internal combustion engines?

[nustada]

Is it less efficient than drilling fossil fuels up from thousands of feet under the surface, shipping it in mega~tankers half way around the world, refining it into usable gasoline, trucking it more thousands of miles to distribution points and burning it in a 19th century-designed internal combustion engines?

Your confusing efficiency with availability. Oil stores energy that pays for its extraction. Sure hydrogen can be used like a battery, but any form of extraction or purification needs an external source of energy, whether that is the sun, tidal, wind(latent solar energy), or oil (latent solar energy).

[thought_criminal]

 There are ways to extract tidal energy that are patented, but not widely adopted.
  Imagine a multi-ton ship/"floater", perched upon a pillar that's also a pneumatic piston. Then consider how much force is required to sink/rise that ship
below/above it's natural buoyant rest height.

 As the tide rises and falls...  the multi-ton "floater" rises and falls with sea level change ... causing the compression of air on both up and down stroke...
 Compressed air can be converted into rotational motion with 99% efficiency.
 
  Unlike traditional tidal energy production methods that require a large reservoirs to drive a single turbine, the same acreage can suddenly drive dozens and dozens of turbines.

  I thought I had another invention on my hands... but turns out it's already been patented.  

  Beats the hell out of "free energy" mumbo jumbo like burning salt water

[Jeffro]

I believe that all matter has a resonant frequency.  If you hit that matter (water, etc) with just the right frequency, you will see an exponential return on the energy released.  Resonance is the key.  Dr. Meyer found it for water and was killed for it.

[Jackson Holly]

Aren't we just talking about producing a flame in both cases - water vs fossil fuel?

The water burning cars seem pretty efficient as far as I can gather - and even if there were some extra expense in producing the flame from water, I feel sure it would not be as great as the cost of  the production of oil.

It does seem that the ready availability of water (the most abundant resource on the planet) is a BIG PLUS. We need to find some way to make the technology ever more efficient - and I believe we will as soon as we can shake this oil albatross. The solution may be in cheaper electrical generation.

But the wave idea - GREAT! I've seen those designs online before - do you have a link?

[thought_criminal]

 Okay.  Let's assume that you can find some "magic frequency" that turns water into hydrogen - oxygen with 100% efficiency (impossible but, this is just a thought experiment/example). . .   You could still NEVER harness the resultant energy with 100% efficiency.

  100w -> 100w worth of H & O (not possible)
  There's no f**king WAY you could then turn the same H & O into 100w energy, let alone 101w
  Even with magic... you can only turn 100w into 98w.

  I'm pretty drunk, but I've been studying physics since I was 8 years old.  If you've ever taken someone's word for something... take my word...
  Even assuming "magic" you STILL couldn't extract energy from such things. . . And I don't believe in magic.

[Jackson Holly]

If someone had told you that water would burn by passing soundwaves through it (before Kansius) what would you have said?

But it doesn't have to be 100% efficient - because the fuel is FREE.

[thought_criminal]

 Why do I feel like Luke Wilson in the movie Idiocracy explaining to people that plants need water,  not "Mondo the thirst mutilator"?

Sure. There's plenty of water or what you call "fuel"...  but the hypothetical process by witch water is turned into something else, and then turned back into water... can and never will (despite any magic) cause a net result in energy.
  It's called thermodynamics, look it up on Wikipedia.



 

[vCFy7W3SFb]

I'm a life long student of science and technology.
 I looked into the whole "burning salt water" thing. It's a neat trick, BUT... it uses WAY more energy to cause that neato display, than it releases.

  It's simple thermodynamics. Assuming you have 1 gallon of water...  and you apply these particular microwave freqs and cause it to "burn"
  The energy that is put into causing the water to split into hydrogen and oxygen is greater than what you could ever extract from it's "burning" back into water.

  It's like saying... I can use 2 units of energy to lift this bowling ball 10 feet into the air, and while droping it releases 1 unit of energy.
 
  It's a neato parlor trick, but has no use whatsoever when it comes to providing energy to the masses.

  I for one espouse patented but not widely known (not the definition you know, but the same energy source) methods for extracting tidal / geothermal energy.

   
 

are you talking about this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtfH4he_MHA

[nustada]

Why do I feel like Luke Wilson in the movie Idiocracy explaining to people that plants need water,  not "Mondo the thirst mutilator"?

Sure. There's plenty of water or what you call "fuel"...  but the hypothetical process by witch water is turned into something else, and then turned back into water... can and never will (despite any magic) cause a net result in energy.
  It's called thermodynamics, look it up on Wikipedia.

LOL, I was thinking about that movie the same way.

BTW, hydrogen is the fuel, water is the waste.

Just like oil is the fuel, CO2 is the waste.

Sure CO2 and h2 can be converted into oil, but it needs an external energy source to do that (Energy from the sun, and heat from inside the earth).

[Jackson Holly]

Why do I feel like Luke Wilson in the movie Idiocracy explaining to people that plants need water,  not "Mondo the thirst mutilator"?

Sure. There's plenty of water or what you call "fuel"...  but the hypothetical process by witch water is turned into something else, and then turned back into water... can and never will (despite any magic) cause a net result in energy.
  It's called thermodynamics, look it up on Wikipedia.

Haven't seen Idiocracy yet ... just a couple of trailers. By the way, Mike Judge was from here in Albuquerque ... went to school with my wife ... they were in the same 'clique' in high school. (She believes she remembers Beavis and Butthead ... hahaha)

~~~~~~~~~~

The heart of the Kansius technology is the soundwave's effect on matter - it is this whole science of 'cymatics' that is intriguing. It may well be the the 'force' that organizes the matter in the universe - use the FORCE, Luke!

Here are some clips (there are many more) that illustrate soundwave or vibratory effects on matter. It works on a macro scale as well.

And yes, call me stupid all you want ... I believe this will prove to be a very useful technology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9GBf8y0lY0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iXY2BE1S8Q&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULSG3pkjoT4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6clRC21vo&NR=1

Stan Meyer's water-driven car:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=48905.msg222332#msg222332