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Author Topic: North Carolina has obstacles to any 10th amendment resolution.....  (Read 1532 times)
freedomrik
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« on: March 02, 2009, 01:49:05 PM »

What have they done.....

North Carolina Constitution

Adopted by Constitutional Convention 1969

Ratified by vote of the People November 3, 1970

Became effective July 1, 1971

"Every citizen of this state owes paramount allegiance to the constitution and government of the united states, and no law or ordinance of the state in contravention or subversion thereof can have any binding force."

We have to do something about this.....It gets worse.....


"This state shall ever remain a member of the american union; the people thereof are part of the american nation; there is no right on the part of this state to secede; and all attempts, from whatever source or upon whatever pretext, to dissolve this union or to sever this nation, shall be resisted with the whole power of the state."
http://vlex.com/vid/secession-prohibited-310110

I need advise on what I need to do to get the ball going here. Seems at first we have to change our constitution. But how...What would be the process?

Help me please
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Darth Chaos
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 01:51:37 PM »

What have they done.....

North Carolina Constitution

Adopted by Constitutional Convention 1969

Ratified by vote of the People November 3, 1970

Became effective July 1, 1971

"Every citizen of this state owes paramount allegiance to the constitution and government of the united states, and no law or ordinance of the state in contravention or subversion thereof can have any binding force."

We have to do something about this.....It gets worse.....


"This state shall ever remain a member of the american union; the people thereof are part of the american nation; there is no right on the part of this state to secede; and all attempts, from whatever source or upon whatever pretext, to dissolve this union or to sever this nation, shall be resisted with the whole power of the state."
http://vlex.com/vid/secession-prohibited-310110

I need advise on what I need to do to get the ball going here. Seems at first we have to change our constitution. But how...What would be the process?

Help me please


Looks like it would need a North Carolina state constitutional convention which could be hijacked by the lobbyists and police-state shills.
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Jaan
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2009, 01:53:26 PM »

that sucks.

Get a repeal?  Huh

NC is a very large hub for the marines tho.
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xfahctor
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2009, 01:58:30 PM »

a referendum in the next elections on the state ballot would be the best bet. Damn, how the hell did that blasphemy make it in to your constitution???
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freedomrik
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 02:12:39 PM »

a referendum in the next elections on the state ballot would be the best bet. Damn, how the hell did that blasphemy make it in to your constitution???

What would have to be done for a referendum to be brought up?

I have a forum where others are gathering to decide what has to be done and effect what ever changes are necessary to make it happen. If anyone is interested email me at freedomrik@gmail.com and I'll send you the link. I dont wont to spam my forum here on Prison Planet.
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xfahctor
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 02:19:18 PM »

What would have to be done for a referendum to be brought up?

I have a forum where others are gathering to decide what has to be done and effect what ever changes are necessary to make it happen. If anyone is interested email me at freedomrik@gmail.com and I'll send you the link. I dont wont to spam my forum here on Prison Planet.
It is different from state to state, usualy a certain number of signatures is required. Study how proposition 8 was put on the ballot in california for an example.
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freedomrik
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 02:20:29 PM »

Here is a letter I am sending to all NC representatives.
How does this sound. What changes would you make

I hope you are aware of the efforts of well over half the states in the union to pass a Joint Resolution claiming sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over certain powers; serving notice to the federal government to cease and desist certain mandates; and directing distribution.

It seems we in North Carolina have an obstacle in our way
North Carolina Constitution
Adopted by Constitutional Convention 1969
Ratified by vote of the People November 3, 1970
Became effective July 1, 1971

"Every citizen of this state owes paramount allegiance to the constitution and government of the united states, and no law or ordinance of the state in contravention or subversion thereof can have any binding force."

We have to do something about this.....It gets worse.....


"This state shall ever remain a member of the american union; the people thereof are part of the american nation; there is no right on the part of this state to secede; and all attempts, from whatever source or upon whatever pretext, to dissolve this union or to sever this nation, shall be resisted with the whole power of the state."
http://vlex.com/vid/secession-prohibited-310110

We seek a referendum to be placed in the next general election of North Carolina to repeal this injustice to the people of NC.
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freedomrik
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2009, 02:34:28 PM »

Worked it some more....

I hope you are aware of the efforts of well over half the states in the union to pass a Joint Resolution claiming sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over certain powers; serving notice to the federal government to cease and desist certain mandates; and directing distribution.

It seems North Carolina has an obstacle in our way…

North Carolina Constitution
Adopted by Constitutional Convention 1969
Ratified by vote of the People November 3, 1970
Became effective July 1, 1971

"Every citizen of this state owes paramount allegiance to the constitution and government of the united states, and no law or ordinance of the state in contravention or subversion thereof can have any binding force."


"This state shall ever remain a member of the american union; the people thereof are part of the american nation; there is no right on the part of this state to secede; and all attempts, from whatever source or upon whatever pretext, to dissolve this union or to sever this nation, shall be resisted with the whole power of the state."
http://vlex.com/vid/secession-prohibited-310110

We seek a referendum to be placed in the next general election of North Carolina to repeal this injustice to the people of North Carolina



WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."; and
WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as being that specifically granted by the Constitution of the United States and no more; and
WHEREAS, the scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that the federal government was created by the states specifically to be an agent of the states; and
WHEREAS, today, in 2008, the states are demonstrably treated as agents of the federal government; and
WHEREAS, many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and
WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and
WHEREAS, a number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from Congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE OF THE [2ND SESSION] OF THE [51ST] NORTH CAROLINA LEGISLATURE:
THAT the State of North Carolina hereby claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States.
THAT this serve as Notice and Demand to the federal government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers.
THAT a copy of this resolution be distributed to the President of the United States, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate of each state's legislature of the United States of America, and each member of the North Carolina Congressional Delegation.
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jimwill
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 02:41:35 PM »


Quote
"Every citizen of this state owes paramount allegiance to the constitution and government of the united states, and no law or ordinance of the state in contravention or subversion thereof can have any binding force."

To me that means that FIRST the citizen owes allegiance to the constitution - that is also the 9th and 10th! So I don't see any problem. Also, the states are not trying to secede - they are just reminding the Federal Government that their powers are limited and that they are breaking constitutional law. The Federal Government can be abolished with having to secede.
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 02:51:13 PM »

To me that means that FIRST the citizen owes allegiance to the constitution - that is also the 9th and 10th! So I don't see any problem. Also, the states are not trying to secede - they are just reminding the Federal Government that their powers are limited and that they are breaking constitutional law. The Federal Government can be abolished with having to secede.

That seems correct.  As in, one many not sign away their rights, even if that one is a State.
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freedomrik
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 02:55:19 PM »

To me that means that FIRST the citizen owes allegiance to the constitution - that is also the 9th and 10th! So I don't see any problem. Also, the states are not trying to secede - they are just reminding the Federal Government that their powers are limited and that they are breaking constitutional law. The Federal Government can be abolished with having to secede.

It says "and government"
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freedomrik
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 02:56:40 PM »

After a little digging I found...

The Constitution Limits the Use of
a Referendum
Article II, Section 1 of the North
Carolina Constitution specifically
provides that “the legislative power of the
State shall be vested in the General
Assembly, which shall consist of a Senate
and a House of Representatives.”1 The
North Carolina Constitution reserves
power to the voters in only limited areas:
(1) the approval of certain State or local
government debts;2 (2) revising or
amending the state Constitution;3 (3)
levying of taxes by units when not a
statewide tax;4 (4) calling a constitutional
convention;5 (5) lending the state’s
credit;6 and (6) paying reconstruction
debts.7 The North Carolina Constitution
reserves no other power to the voters
except in these specific and limited areas.


In conclusion, it is clear that a lottery
referendum is unconstitutional in North
Carolina. The North Carolina Constitution
does not provide for a referendum process,
and vests exclusive legislative power in the
General Assembly. The North Carolina
Supreme Court has clearly indicated that
this general rule against delegation of
legislative power will not be set aside.
Furthermore, analysis of other states’ case
law and constitutions further suggests that
the North Carolina Supreme Court would
similarly find a delegation of legislative
power to the North Carolina voters on a
statewide issue amounts to an unconstitutional
delegation of legislative power.Ά

http://www.ncfpc.org/PolicyPapers/Findings%200205-LotteryRefer.pdf
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freedomrik
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 03:41:49 PM »

Here are some old standing resolutions

GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NORTH CAROLINA
SESSION 1995
H 2
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 571
Committee Substitute Favorable 5/3/95
–––––––––––––––––––-
Sponsors:
–––––––––––––––––––-
Referred to:
–––––––––––––––––––-
March 28, 1995
1 A JOINT RESOLUTION DEMANDING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
2 CEASE AND DESIST MANDATES THAT ARE BEYOND THE SCOPE OF ITS
3 CONSTITUTIONALLY DELEGATED POWERS AND HONORING THE
4 MEMORY OF RICHARD DOBBS SPAIGHT, WILLIAM BLOUNT, AND HUGH
5 WILLIAMSON.
6 Whereas, the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads
7 as follows:
8 "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited
9 by it to the states, are reserved to the states, respectively, or to the people."; and
10 Whereas, the Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as
11 being that specifically granted by the United States Constitution and no more; and
12 Whereas, the scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that
13 the federal government was created by the states specifically to be an agent of the states;
14 and
15 Whereas, in 1995, the states are in fact treated as agents of the federal
16 government; and
17 Whereas, many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth
18 Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and
19 Whereas, the United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United
20 States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer the
21 legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and
GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NORTH CAROLINA 1995
Page 2 HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 571 version 2
1 Whereas, a number of proposals from previous administrations and some now
2 pending from the present administration and from Congress may further violate the
3 United States Constitution; and
4 Whereas, Richard Dobbs Spaight, William Blount, and Hugh Williamson
5 were among North Carolina's delegates to the federal convention in 1787 and signed the
6 United States Constitution on behalf of North Carolina; and
7 Whereas, Richard Dobbs Spaight was a member of the Continental Congress
8 from 1783 to 1785; a member of the House of Commons of the Assemblies of 1779,
9 1781, 1782, 1783, 1786-87, 1792; a member of the Senate of the Assemblies of 1801
10 and 1802; Speaker of the House of Commons of the Assembly of 1785; Governor, as
11 chosen by the legislature, from 1792-95; and a member of the United States House of
12 Representatives in the Fifth and Sixth Congresses; and
13 Whereas, William Blount was a member of the Continental Congress, elected
14 in 1782, 1784, and 1785; a member of the House of Commons of the Assemblies of
15 1780, 1783, 1784, 1784-85, 1788, 1789, 1801, 1802; a member of the Senate of the
16 Assembly of 1806; and Speaker of the North Carolina House of Commons of the
17 Assembly of 1784-85; and
18 Whereas, Hugh Williamson was a member of the Continental Congress,
19 elected in 1782, 1784, and 1787; a member of the House of Commons of the
20 Assemblies of 1782 and 1785; and a member of the First Congress of the United States
21 House of Representatives;
22 Now, therefore, be it resolved by the House of Representatives, the Senate concurring:
23 Section 1. That the State of North Carolina claims sovereignty under the
24 Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all other powers not
25 otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the United States
26 Constitution.
27 Sec. 2. That this serve as Notice and Demand to the federal government, as
28 the State of North Carolina's agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates
29 that are beyond the scope of its constitutionally delegated powers.
30 Sec. 3. That the General Assembly hereby honors the life and memory of
31 Richard Dobbs Spaight, William Blount, and Hugh Williamson for their service and
32 contributions to this State and the United States and for their signing of the Constitution
33 of our United States.
34 Sec. 4. The Secretary of State shall transmit copies of this resolution to the
35 President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, the Speaker of
36 the United States House of Representatives, the President of the United States Senate,
37 the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate of each
38 state legislature of the United States, and each Senator and Representative in the
39 Congress of the United States from North Carolina.
40 Sec. 5. This resolution is effective upon ratification.


House Joint Resolution 2026
1989-1990 Session
AFFIRMING THE TENTH AMENDMENT
<< Previous: H2025 Next: H2027 >>
Text Fiscal Note
Edition 1  -
Status: POSTPONED INDEFINITELY on 07/26/1990
Sponsors
Primary: Holt;
Co: Bowman; Hunter; Pope;
Attributes: Public;
History
Date Chamber Action
05/15/1989 House REF TO COM ON RULESETC
07/26/1990 House POSTPONED INDEFINITELY
Note: a bill listed on this website is not law until passed by the House and the Senate, ratified,
and, if required, signed by the Governor.
North Carolina General Assembly - House Joint Resolution 2026 Information/History (19... Page 1 of 1
http://www.legislature.state.nc.us/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?bPrintable=true&Se... 3/2/2009
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Darth Chaos
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 04:47:44 PM »

that sucks.

Get a repeal?  Huh

NC is a very large hub for the marines tho.

I think a repeal is in order.
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freedomrik
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 06:32:36 PM »

here is a reply I got from Rep. Kelly M. Alexander representing Mecklenburg NC ( in yellow) at the top is my recent reply back to him....



Why would you think it necessary for 30 other state reps to declare that it is necessary? Not to sound to brash but your reply sounds like you are trying to avoid the issue. This is a very serious matter and something seemingly so clear has never stopped law makers before. Is this your best answer as a representative of Mecklenburg ?

________________________________________
From: Rep. Kelly M. Alexander [mailto:Kelly.Alexander@ncleg.net]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 7:16 PM
To: ********
Subject: RE: NC 10th amendment resolution

The 10th Amendment is clear...dont see why a resolution on it is needed


________________________________________
From: steve Thompson [mailto:freedomrik@triad.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:29 PM
To: Rep. Kelly M. Alexander
Subject: NC 10th amendment resolution
Dear Sir,




Would you please consider the following as over one half of the states of the union now have resolutions in their perspective houses for a 10th Amendment resolution?

I would like to know if you would stand for or against such resolution?

Please reference:
NC House Joint Resolution 2026
1989-1990 Session

And

GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NORTH CAROLINA
SESSION 1995
H 2
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 571
Committee Substitute Favorable 5/3/95



 

WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."; and
WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as being that specifically granted by the Constitution of the United States and no more; and
WHEREAS, the scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that the federal government was created by the states specifically to be an agent of the states; and
WHEREAS, today, in 2008, the states are demonstrably treated as agents of the federal government; and
WHEREAS, many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and
WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and
WHEREAS, a number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from Congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE OF THE [2ND SESSION] OF THE [51ST] NORTH CAROLINA LEGISLATURE:
THAT the State of North Carolina hereby claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States.
THAT this serve as Notice and Demand to the federal government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers.
THAT a copy of this resolution be distributed to the President of the United States, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate of each state's legislature of the United States of America, and each member of the North Carolina Congressional Delegation.
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2009, 08:14:50 PM »

I am in NC too.  Thanks for the post.  I did not know this information.
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2009, 09:20:40 PM »

Interesting info and food for thought...glad to see other north carolinians here on the forum, by the way.
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freedomrik
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« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2009, 08:10:52 AM »

I need All Patriot and Truthers from NC to write their NC reps. and urge them to pass HR 571
Find contact info for your Reps at http://www.ncleg.net/GIS/RandR07/Home.html

GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NORTH CAROLINA

SESSION 1995

H                                                                                                                                                       2

HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 571

Committee Substitute Favorable 5/3/95

 

 

 

 

–––––––––––––––––––-

Sponsors:

 

–––––––––––––––––––-

Referred to:

 

–––––––––––––––––––-

 

March 28, 1995

 

A JOINT RESOLUTION DEMANDING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CEASE AND DESIST MANDATES THAT ARE BEYOND THE SCOPE OF ITS CONSTITUTIONALLY DELEGATED POWERS AND HONORING THE MEMORY OF RICHARD DOBBS SPAIGHT, WILLIAM BLOUNT, AND HUGH WILLIAMSON.

Whereas, the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states, respectively, or to the people."; and

Whereas, the Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as being that specifically granted by the United States Constitution and no more; and

Whereas, the scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that the federal government was created by the states specifically to be an agent of the states; and

Whereas, in 1995, the states are in fact treated as agents of the federal government; and

Whereas, many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and

Whereas, the United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and

Whereas, a number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from Congress may further violate the United States Constitution; and

Whereas, Richard Dobbs Spaight, William Blount, and Hugh Williamson were among North Carolina's delegates to the federal convention in 1787 and signed the United States Constitution on behalf of North Carolina; and

Whereas, Richard Dobbs Spaight was a member of the Continental Congress from 1783 to 1785; a member of the House of Commons of the Assemblies of 1779, 1781, 1782, 1783, 1786-87, 1792; a member of the Senate of the Assemblies of 1801 and 1802; Speaker of the House of Commons of the Assembly of 1785; Governor, as chosen by the legislature, from 1792-95; and a member of the United States House of Representatives in the Fifth and Sixth Congresses; and

Whereas, William Blount was a member of the Continental Congress, elected in 1782, 1784, and 1785; a member of the House of Commons of the Assemblies of 1780, 1783, 1784, 1784-85, 1788, 1789, 1801, 1802; a member of the Senate of the Assembly of 1806; and Speaker of the North Carolina House of Commons of the Assembly of 1784-85; and

Whereas, Hugh Williamson was a member of the Continental Congress, elected in 1782, 1784, and 1787; a member of the House of Commons of the Assemblies of 1782 and 1785; and a member of the First Congress of the United States House of Representatives;

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the House of Representatives, the Senate concurring:

Section 1.  That the State of North Carolina claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all other powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the United States Constitution.

Sec. 2.  That this serve as Notice and Demand to the federal government, as the State of North Carolina's agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of its constitutionally delegated powers.

Sec. 3.  That the General Assembly hereby honors the life and memory of Richard Dobbs Spaight, William Blount, and Hugh Williamson for their service and contributions to this State and the United States and for their signing of the Constitution of our United States.

Sec. 4.  The Secretary of State shall transmit copies of this resolution to the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate of each state legislature of the United States, and each Senator and Representative in the Congress of the United States from North Carolina.

Sec. 5.  This resolution is effective upon ratification.


Help me revive this Resolution.........
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« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2009, 09:06:40 AM »

House Bill 419 - 1989 TITLE: People Amend Constitution
http://www.legislature.state.nc.us/Sessions/1989/Bills/House/PDF/H419v1.pdf


Did you see this?
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« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2009, 09:57:57 PM »

House Bill 419 - 1989 TITLE: People Amend Constitution
http://www.legislature.state.nc.us/Sessions/1989/Bills/House/PDF/H419v1.pdf


Did you see this?

thanks for posting this
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« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2009, 11:11:37 PM »

Easiest.... Move to another state, and let them burn.
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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2009, 11:31:26 AM »

Interesting.

I would agree with his response that the "10th Amendment is clear" and that a State resolution is "not needed".

However, does he therefore believe that the central government is actually adhereing to the 10th Amendment? Does he believe that the central government has NOT overstepped its enumerated powers?

As far as the NC Constitution regarding seccession is concerned, I don't really think it is much of an issue if push comes to shove. If you read the text carefully, the only thing that is prohibited is the initiation of the dissolution of their ties to the union. Just as in any contract, if the other party violates the terms of the contract, then the contract is void (they have "disolved" the voluntary union through their illegitimate action). If the contract is void then there is no valid union from which to "sever ties". What remains is only the force of the central government and its illegitimate claim on the member State and its Citizens.

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« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2009, 08:56:44 AM »

The 10th amendment basically says to the government "oh if we forgot anything you can't do that either" it doesn't really have anything to do with succession.

Anyone who says it's about succession is trying to hijack the movement.
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