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Author Topic: 44 Republicans introduce bill to remove the income tax!  (Read 3080 times)
TheHouseMan
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« on: February 23, 2009, 07:36:36 AM »

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h25/show

Fair Tax Act of 2009

To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

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Dig
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 08:03:51 AM »

"National Sales Tax administered by the states"

Has to be better than an income tax, but like ROn Paul has said...

"This is just another way of taxing the people.  I want to get rid of the income tax and replace it with nothing."

Still, Ron Paul has also said that he prefers this than the income tax because the way the income tax is structured is very deceiving. I would also be aware of the plan to introduce a carbon tax.  They can shift this from a more fair "sales tax on products" to an enslavement program of taxing you for every breath you consume. Very interesting developments that hopefully will expose the Fed as a true institution of terror.  BTW - see "The International" ASAP!
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 08:10:26 AM »

We all need to stand behind that.

go to http://www.congress.org enter your zipcode and send to both State and Federal Entities Demanding they back it !!!

It is simple and quick !! Do it NOW !!

If you want to do something to HELP Do this now !!!
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Dig
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 08:31:27 AM »

We all need to stand behind that.

go to http://www.congress.org enter your zipcode and send to both State and Federal Entities Demanding they back it !!!

It is simple and quick !! Do it NOW !!

If you want to do something to HELP Do this now !!!


Definitely!
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Matthew
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2009, 09:01:35 AM »

I hate the "fair" tax.

"Patriot" Act

"Fairness" Doctrine

"Stimulus" Bill

"No Child Left Behind" Act

Do you really think this will be any different?





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MagnusAgricola
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2009, 10:31:36 AM »

So, are you suggesting we just sit back and not voice our concerns about this stuff?  Sorry, but I think you are wrong.

I think politics is a waste of time.  In fact, it is worse than a waste of time.  Politics is a distraction and deception game to fool us into believing lies.  Politics is actively harmful because every minute you spend pleading to them for better treatment is a minute you won't be doing something that might be useful and productive. 

You would be better off if you accepted a basic fact -- they don't care what your concerns are.  The whole system of voting and representatives is a sham.  This is not a responsive government.  They are playing with you.  They will NEVER do anything other than placate you with a few trivial concessions.  Those concessions won't matter, but they will be used to deceive you into believing that you have a "voice" or can remotely affect the circumstances of your life or what the government does. 

You don't.  They look at you the way a rancher looks at cattle.  You are livestock to them. 

They want happy, productive livestock, which is why we live in a free-range style stockyard, instead of a confining, restrictive pen. They didn't grant you liberties to make you free.  They granted you some minor liberties to make you more productive, so they could tax you more.  They will not allow you (or me, or any of us) to make any real choices about government, and they never will. 

We have to end the entire system, not try to reform it.  To do that, we have to wake up millions and millions of people. 

Don't go begging to the master for better treatment.  Instead, just stop being a slave. 
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2009, 10:46:08 AM »

there is no law that you must pay income tax.  you pay it because you AGREE to pay it.  when you fill out those forms when you start a new job somewhere, one of those has little fine print that says 'by signing this document, you agree to pay income tax' 
you can end that agreement anytime you want. 
income tax is the paycheque for the Fed Reserve.  The biggest lie.... none of the money paid as 'income tax' goes toward infrastructure or government services.  income tax is 100% paid to the Fed Reserve as interest payments for using their money.  The US dollar isn't government tender,  It's private,  The government rents its use from the Reserve, income tax pays that rent.
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dissident99
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2009, 10:50:57 AM »

I still believe that the State Officials can be persuaded to THINK and push the Federal Reps.
I know they have been bought at the federal Level but We still have hope if we push the Locals.
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2009, 11:01:55 AM »

+ 1 RonPaulRulz08

We still have to voice our opinion . The power is with the people .

Shout as loud as you can. At this point in time it does not matter who thinks we are nuts for questioning the Sheeple's global views.

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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 11:04:28 AM »

Well, if the bill is legit, I'm all for it. Please pardon my paranoia, but *44* Republicans (we know the Illuminati love their numerology) and isn't the plan to KEEP the IRS, but add this type of a tax? Just a thought....
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2009, 11:10:56 AM »

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but the so-called "Fair" Tax is anything but:

--------------------------------------

The FAIRTAX: A TROJAN HORSE FOR AMERICA?

By Claire Wolfe & Aaron Zelman


“Abolish the IRS!”

So goes the cry. And who could disagree? The income tax is unAmerican in the most profound way, punishing people for being successful. The tax code is vast and incomprehensible. The agency that enforces it is universally loathed.

Yes, let's abolish the IRS. And the income tax.

Unfortunately, the statement that usually comes next begins, “And replace it with ...” And there a new round of troubles begin.

Over time, proposals have included replacing the graduated income tax with a flat tax, a VAT (value added tax), or some form of consumption tax. For several years now, the buzz has been growing for a national sales tax. While other “abolish the IRS” reforms have languished, the national sales tax has, as they say, developed legs.

The most durable proposal for a national sales tax – called the FairTax – is promoted by an organization called Americans for Fair Taxation (AFT) (http://www.fairtax.org). A bill to implement that tax (H.R. 25; Senate Bill 1943)(1) was introduced in Congress early in the 108th Congress. The so-called “Fair Tax Act” has 54 co-sponsors as of this writing, plus the outspoken support of both Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay. President George W. Bush expressed cautious support for the act (http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3422) in response to a pre-screened questioner at one of his campaign events. In his acceptance speech at the 2004 Republican Party convention, Bush strongly advocated a total revamp of the U.S. tax system. Although he made no specific proposal, his language was similar to that of the FairTaxers. And at the moment, the FairTax is the only serious tax-revamp proposal on the Congressional table.

Finally, many, many ordinary freedom-loving people, weary of the present outrageous system, are cheering the FairTax as a great improvement.

But it's not.

The FairTax is not only not an improvement. We believe it's UnFair, dangerous, and a disaster in the making.

[Continued...]


What it's all about: The Book

The Book, "The FairTax Book", written by right-wing radio talk show host Neal Boortz, is the basis for and Bible for a recent right-wing cult-like movement to replace the current US tax code with a national sales tax. We suggest you familiarize yourself with it by purchasing or borrowing the book from your local library. We want you to be as informed as possible so that you can make a logical decision based on facts, and not on party loyalty or hype.

We consider the FairTax to be nothing more than a smokescreen for a huge tax cut to the wealthiest Americans and a gigantic tax increase for everyone else to make up for it. As you read, ask yourself what you would get from this plan if it was ever made into law. With critical thinking you will find that the FairTax is not only a lie and a scam, but it will throw many Americans into permanent poverty. We believe the FairTax plan taxes hard work - the sweat of our brows and the toil of our labor - while at the same time it makes free welfare money (inheritances, gifts, and capital gains), that wasn't worked for and wasn't earned, completely tax free.

The FairTax increases the size of government making all who sell or trade part of the Big Brother network. This new tax bill gives the government additional powers to rule the poor and literally grants additional rights to the wealthiest people in America. George Orwell would have been proud.

The FairTax is ANTI-FAMILY. The FairTax penalizes poor families for buying food, clothes, shelter, and medical care by taxing all the basic necessities of life. These things are NOT taxed right now (and shouldn't be) but they ARE HEAVILY TAXED under the FairTax plan. Remember this when you get barraged by a FairTax supporter that says the prebate will give you a portion of this additional tax back and you should be grateful to the new Big Brother Government for giving you anything back. The FairTax bill penalizes those who live paycheck to paycheck taxing every dollar spent to make ends meet while UN-TAXING the rich and wealthy who live off of inheritances, trusts, gifts, and old money.

[Continued...]


Sales Tax Destroys Commerce

Pennsylvania has virtually no shopping malls within 15 miles of Delaware, even though population density in that area is higher than anywhere else in Pennsylvania (and, for that matter, higher than in Delaware). Why the dearth of shopping malls? Because Pennsylvania has a 6% sales tax (7% in Philadelphia), and Delaware has no sales tax at all.

[Continued...]

--------------------------------------




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TheHouseMan
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 11:14:31 AM »

The Fair Tax is awful, not as bad as the carbon tax though:

YouTube - Al Gore announces the carbon tax
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dissident99
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2009, 11:17:11 AM »

So if this is not the thing to do what Is ?? Do we push another Bill that just removes the IRS and the Federal Income Tax and does not impose any other Tax ?

I mean is this not the begining of the march towards the right solution ?
 
Or is this simply a Tactic to Stick it to us onto another Orifice ?? (Sorry for my Frankness)
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2009, 11:24:18 AM »

I did email my congressman over the fair tax act of 2009.  Here is his response.  He's a dem btw.

Dear Mr Committed:

 

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Fair Tax (H.R. 25).  I appreciated hearing from you.

 

I am committed to real tax reform that would implement a more efficient, simple, and fair federal revenue system.  Tax reform should not give additional breaks to millionaires on the backs of working and middle-class families, nor should it increase the already dangerous budget deficits and endanger the long- term solvency of Social Security.

 

Representative John Linder of Georgia introduced HR 25, the "Fair Tax Act," on January 6, 2009, which would replace our current federal income tax system with a national sales tax.  HR 25 has been referred to the House Committee on Ways and Means, where no further action has been taken.

 

The "Fair Tax Act," would replace the current income tax with a regressive 23% national sales tax for property, goods and services.  Taxable services would include transportation, utilities, telecommunications (i.e. phone, internet, cable) and these services would be taxed at a 23% rate.  In addition, homes and cars would cost an additional 23%.  When purchasing a new home, you would have to pay nearly a quarter of the cost of the home in additional taxes.  For example, a $100,000 home would cost $123,000.  Or, if you already own your own home, you may find the value of your home decreases because potential purchasers cannot afford it.

 

In addition, many of our seniors who have been forced into the abysmal Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit program already cannot afford to pay for their prescriptions under Part D.  Under the "Fair Tax," our seniors would pay an additional 23% for their drugs, as $1000 in prescription costs would become $1,230.

 

The President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform rejected replacing the current federal income tax with a national sales tax as proposed under the "Fair Tax Act." In their final report issued on November 1, 2005, the panel detailed four major reasons for rejecting a national sales tax proposal:

 

1)        This proposal would place an undue burden on working and middle-class families

 

2)        An entitlement program, like the "family consumption allowance" provided for in the "Fair Tax Act," would create the largest entitlement program in American history.  This "family consumption allowance" would provide a monthly sales tax rebate for families meeting the monthly poverty level (1/12) of the annual poverty level.  A program like this would be included in order to provide grants to working and middle-class families to supplement the undue tax burden.

 

3)        Although the "Fair Tax Act" would eliminate the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), a new government agency would be needed to oversee the sales tax system, especially the monthly "family consumption allowance" program; therefore, there would still be extensive administrative costs, including the cost of implementing a brand new government agency to oversee this system.

 

4)        It is likely that individual states would still continue to collect state income taxes on top of the national sales tax, creating an even higher burden on families than the 23% proposed in the national sales tax.

 

Given my serious concerns and the rejection of a national sales tax by the President's panel, I do not support a national sales tax as a replacement for the federal income tax.  However, I would support tax reforms that create a simplified, fair system that would not unduly tax our working and middle-class families.

 

I will keep your thoughts in mind should Congress consider H.R. 25 or any other tax reform legislation.  Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.  Please feel free to contact me again in the future with issues that concern you.

 

 

Sincerely,

BART STUPAK
Member of Congress
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2009, 11:50:46 AM »

Again what we do is try to push the removal of the IRS and The Income Tax and the removal of all unnecessary Govt spending.
And try to do away with the Fair Tax as well. 
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2009, 01:17:05 PM »

Again what we do is try to push the removal of the IRS and The Income Tax and the removal of all unnecessary Govt spending.
And try to do away with the Fair Tax as well. 
I'm all for that.  I think a flat rate tax could work.  And for sure we need someone to go in and cut our government way down.  Too bad it won't happen.
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2009, 01:26:22 PM »

So if this is not the thing to do what Is??

I'm a Georgist, so naturally I advocate shifting our tax burden to the greatest extent possible off the processes and products of labor and onto the annual rental value of land (minus the value of houses, buildings and other improvements):

----------------------------------

http://savingcommunities.org/foundersplan/whyfounders.html

Why America's Founders Wanted
A Property Tax on Land Value,
And NOT a Sales Tax!


Why a Land Value Tax?

Land for ordinary citizens

William Penn wanted to keep aristocrats from grabbing up land as they had in Europe. He declared Pennsylvania a "commonwealth" where each landholder would pay a modest rent that "would put an end to taxes, leave not a beggar, and make the greatest bank for national trade." The first tax in Pennsylvania was a land value tax.

Thomas Jefferson also saw that land monopoly made ordinary Europeans poor, while cheap land made Americans rich. He also proposed taxes on real estate to prevent land grabbers from driving land prices up.

Keeping taxing power local

Under the Articles of Confederation, the federal government taxed each state on its land value. Each state would tax each county, and citizens would never have to deal with state or federal tax collectors. Our founders did not trust strong central governments. They believed that people govern their own communities better than powerful states can govern them.

A stipend for senior citizens

Tom Paine proposed to give each citizen over 50 an annual stipend from land value tax for the rest of his life. Paine' proposal was the first (and probably the best) social security proposal.

Today's corporate aristocracy

The shift to sales and income taxes have helped corporate conglomerates drive out out family farms, small manufacturers and local merchants.

Fewer than 3% of the landowners own more than 97% of the privately held land, including most of the valuable land in central business districts and at the convergence of major highways. Land grabbing has driven up real estate prices so much that fewer people own their homes free and clear than ever before.

Land value tax reduces the tax burden on ordinary citizens and gives the competitive edge back to small farmers and small businesses. It makes housing more affordable by driving speculators out of the housing market. It costs senior citizens far less than property tax, even without the stipend that Paine proposed.

[Continued...]


http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/fremery-robert_on-tax-reform.html

Our Unsound Tax Laws And Measures for Reform

by Robert De Fremery


Daniel Webster once said: "A free government cannot long endure where the tendency of the laws is to concentrate the wealth of the country in the hands of a few, and to render the masses poor and dependent."

An objective analysis of the tax laws used in most countries will, I believe, lead any fair-minded person to the conclusion that these laws do just that. They tend to concentrate wealth in the hands of a privileged few--taking from those who produce and giving to those who do not.

The basic defect in our tax system is that we allow our local, state, and Federal governments to tax away privately created values while at the same time an enormous amount of publicly created value remains in private hands.

Many are surprised to hear of publicly created value as distinct from privately created values. Victims of unjust taxation all their lives, they are shocked by the suggestion that it is possible to have an essentially burdenless tax system--that there is a natural reservoir of publicly created value, over and above all privately created values, which could pay for all legitimate activities of government. Yet many economists have recognized this fact for more than 200 years. And although we draw to some extent upon this source of revenue, the extent to which we do not is responsible for many of our economic ills today.

The difference between publicly created and privately created values, once seen, is never forgotten. Both result from the competitive bidding within society for the right to consume or use something. But it is of utmost significance that privately created values result from competitive bidding for goods and services produced by man, whereas publicly created values result from competitive bidding for something no man produced--the land upon which we live and work and whose value increases as the community in which it is located grows. In the one case men are bidding for goods and services produced by each other as private individuals. In the other men are bidding for the important right to use part of the earth's surface. In the one case you have privately created values. In the other you have a publicly created value.

[Continued...]

----------------------------------


That would be my ideal tax reform. But if I had to compromise, I would choose a reform that, for starters, replaces the horribly regressive payroll tax to the greatest extent possible with an annual tax on the fair market value of the public airwaves:


----------------------------------

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0531-05.htm

Media Moguls Pay No Rent for Using Our Airwaves

by Ralph Nader
CommonDreams.org
May 31, 2003

  
There is little doubt that the Federal Communications Commission, by a split 3 to 2 vote, will open more doors for the giant media moguls to acquire more radio, television and newspaper properties in cities, towns and rural areas of this country. By the same decision, they will close more doors on ideas, speakers, writers, artists and small businesses either because doing so makes them more profits or the moguls disagree with these various viewpoints.

FCC Chairman Michael Powell refused to hold more than one public hearing on this rule-making proceeding outside of Washington, D.C. So two other FCC Commissioners - Michael Copps and Jonathan Adelstein - held over one dozen unofficial public hearings in numerous cities, including a recent one in Washington, none of which were attended by Chairman Powell.

The hearings were packed. People care. Whether they are the National Organization for Women or the National Rifle Association, or media magnates, Barry Diller or Ted Turner, or Common Cause or William Safire, none want five or six chief executives to decide what they hear, read or see.

Viacom's CEO Sumner Redstone once said on television that what keeps him and his often obstreperous number two man at Viacom, Mel Karmazin, together is their common interest in boosting the company's stock price. Not the company's programming, news staff diversity, localism and innovative content for a more informed and enlightened audience. They sneer at such yardsticks, especially Karmazin - the ultimate monetary mind.

But the CEO of Clear Channel (owner of over 1200 radio stations) - Lowry Mays - is just as monetized. He once said: "We're not in the business of providing news and information. We're not in the business of providing well-researched music. We're simply in the business of selling our customers products."

Such commercialism would not be so appalling except that these media moguls are doing all this on our property - the public airwaves - and paying us no rent for exclusive use of our property. Yet they are deciding who says what and who doesn't say what 24 hours a day. The public airwaves are the property of the American people. The FCC is our hapless, industry-indentured (paid junkets are a way of life for FCC officials) real estate agent that gives away the spectrum.

There is an historic safeguard written into the Communications Act of 1934 which requires the FCC to regulate these radio and television stations according to the "public convenience, interest or necessity." Chairman Powell will finish out his term without putting any modern content to this mandate for exercising the public trust in his deliberations as the chief manager of the public airwaves.

Interestingly, the broadcast and newspaper industry split on these concentration rules. Usually their trade association lobbies speak with one voice as they swarm over Congress and the FCC. Family owned newspapers took a different position than that taken by Gannett or other newspaper chains, while locally owned independent TV and radio stations did not like these monopoly enhancements. They believe, as Ted Turner wrote recently, that "when you lose small businesses, you lose big ideas."

But the National Federation of Independent Business, which brags about its power to defend and promote small business, took no position. Apparently, their leaders are spending too much time huddling with big business to listen to the cries of small businesses whose cost of advertising on radio goes up in direct relation to the concentration of ownership of radio stations, such as in New York City.

This is no obscure regulatory rule-making. Hundreds of thousands of comments have arrived at FCC headquarters; there have been demonstrations and protests by groups who usually disagree on public policy issues. What they have in common is that they want a voice. They want to hear other voices beyond the canned entertainment and political party lines that they are receiving.

Were it not for the national absorption with the war in Iraq, the mushrooming opposition to Chairman Powell and the media moguls might have been decisive. As it was, the challenge moved toward critical mass too late for the June 2, 2003 decision which Chairman Powell refused to postpone.

There remains the base of a large movement for recovering some diversity, localism and competition from the mass media. It is bad enough that about 90 percent of what is carried on television and radio is advertising and entertainment. Our country needs serious talk, more good reporters, and citizen access to the great but unseen and unheard talent in our land - from artists to candidates for office.

Above all, the people need to stop having to beg. We own the public airwaves and, after charging the radio and TV stations rent, there will be ample funds for a return to the people of their public airwaves for some time every day in the form of their own audience network.

----------------------------------
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2009, 01:40:50 PM »

a "fair tax" could be an even more crippling tax, depends on the rate.
what is "fair" Huh Obama will tell you.
Dont get me wrong, sounds great, fkkk the IRS, its illegal and should be abolished immediately, but im certainly not going to jump at a chance to SWITCH taxes, because i might end up paying considerably more than i am right now, im not farmiliar with the proposal.

if you really think about it down to its lowest level, or highest level, whatever, the root problem is the Federal Reserve, and secondary to that balloon of B.S. are the IRS and the Govt Over-Spending on absolutely everything.

The U.S could afford to be Socialist (as we are now); if only the taxes we pay right now werent pissed away.

END the FED
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