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Author Topic: 7.62 vs 5.56  (Read 11106 times)
a ReVoLuTIONarY ideA
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« on: February 05, 2009, 12:05:43 AM »

What are your opinions on the best round/weapon platform for a firearm to be used as a defense weapon?

I'm planning on buying an AK or SKS because of their low cost, but if I had the money I would go with an AR-15 because I have shot them before and they are ridiculously accurate with low recoil.  From what I have been told the AK and SKS has more recoil and aren't as accurate at long ranges, but that bigger round has more knockdown power.
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Nailer
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 04:02:06 AM »

What are your opinions on the best round/weapon platform for a firearm to be used as a defense weapon?

I'm planning on buying an AK or SKS because of their low cost, but if I had the money I would go with an AR-15 because I have shot them before and they are ridiculously accurate with low recoil.  From what I have been told the AK and SKS has more recoil and aren't as accurate at long ranges, but that bigger round has more knockdown power.

knockdown power is what you want and the durability issue is won by the AK and SKS over the AR15..  SKS if sighted properly  you can hit accurate at 200-300yds .
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flanagan
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 12:59:24 PM »

i gotta go with the 7.62 as well. the AK is not nearly as inaccurate as some would have you believe. it's a very simple, very durable weapon. and the AK and the SKS are more affordable. the problem right now is availability, however the online shops are starting to get them back in stock.
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"Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms" - Jeremiah 51:20
Orgetorix
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 11:03:44 PM »

It all depends on how much you have to spend. An AK/SKS is a good choice and an AR-15/M4-A1 is a good choice also. Each gun has their strengths and weaknesses.

Reliability: AK has a slight edge here but not by much. The only real problem with an AR-15 is if you shoot PSP's (Exposed Lead Nose) you'll tend to get lead buildup on the feed ramps and after 100-300 rounds it'll have a tendency to jam. If you shoot FMJ's you'll not have this problem. If both guns are kept clean, the only way either one wouldn't fire 1st shot is because of bad ammo.

Power: The 7.62x39mm is a 123gr. round that exits the muzzle at 2400fps. with 1500ft/lbs. of energy. The 5.56x45mm/.223 Remington is a much more common sporting round so bullet weight varies quite a bit from 40gr.-77gr. so we'll take the standard USA Army 62gr. FMJ load with a Muzzle Velocity of 3100fps. and Initial Energy of 1300ft/lbs. The only real difference between them is that the NATO round is half the weight, but makes up for that with increased velocity. The important thing is that the 5.56mm when striking soft tissue at high velocity will as quoted here,

Quote
As with all spitzer shaped projectiles it is prone to yaw in soft tissue. However, at impact velocities above roughly 2,700 ft/s (820 m/s), it will yaw and then fragment at the cannelure (the groove around the cylinder of the bullet). The fragments disperse through the flesh causing much more internal injury. The effectiveness of fragmentation seems to impart much greater damage to tissue than bullet dimensions and velocities would suggest.http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/5.56-x-45-mm-NATO

But the drawback is if you don't strike your target with the required velocity fragmentation won't occur. Another drawback to the light weight is that the bullet is easily deflected by cover, and is also less accurate in high winds.  Neither round will reliably penetrate Class IIIa Body Armor.

Accuracy: Neither weapon was designed to shoot more than 300yards. So this isn't as one sided as people would make it out to be in favor of the AR-15. With either gun you can reliably hit the center of mass at 300yards with a properly sighted in weapon. Though I would have to say the AR-15 is more accurate due to the fact that the round is flatter shooting, 22in. of drop at 300 yards compared to 44in.

For me I would take an AR-15, just for the fact that in close the 5.56mm does have more stopping power because of the design of the bullet and it's tendency to yaw and fragment. The AK-74 that replaced the AK-47 shoots a 5.45x39mm round, and takes the fragmentation a step further by having an air bubble in the nose of the round just to increase this effect. In the end though you can't go wrong either way, it's up to which gun you feel comfortable trusting your life to.

Just a note check out the link I posted because there is a slight difference between a military 5.56 NATO and a .223 Rem. in how the chambers are milled. The rounds are interchangeable in a pinch, but not recommended for constant use.
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Orgetorix
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 12:59:14 AM »

With the 7.62x39 you zero at 250 yards and it will only be 6" high at 150 yards, and will be 7" low at 300 yards so you can just aim center mass all the way out to 300. The 5.56 is spun so fast that it will not yaw, it will run though soft tissue like a drill bit. I have shot almost every caliber you could imagine, many of them in real world situation. I would only have an ar-15 for a backup rifle in case my weapon went down. 7.62x39 has everything the 5.56 does not...... But you can carry more rounds of 5.56 you will need them.

Like I said it comes down to what you're most comfortable with. For me if I had to choose just one gun between an AK-47 or an AR-15. I'll take the AR. I like the 5.56mm round better especially if I can get 77gr. Match rounds. I wish I could find that Gel Test Vid I saw. It shows a 5.56 round yawing them fragmenting. The Russians liked the performance so much they switched their rounds to 5.45 in '74. If I was buying myself a rifle and had my pick. I would stick with 7.62 NATO. Because it's everything the 7.62 Russian isn't, and this would be my choice.

Panther™ LR-308AP4
 
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=18

or,

Panther™ 7.62NATO Sportical™

http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=55

I know a guy who works there. The guns are a little spendy, but they are milled to perfection. Amazing out of the box accuracy with just about any load.
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orthros
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 10:45:22 AM »


I personally don't understand why people get a hard-on for AR15s.  For that kind of money I could do WAY better.

Might be because they make a number of different calibers for it.

AR-15, without bolt modification
.17 Remington
.20 Tactical
.204 Ruger
.221 Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington (5.56x45mm)
.223 Remington Ackley Improved
6x45mm
6mm Whisper
6.5mm Whisper
7mm Whisper
7mm TCU
.300 Whisper (.300/221, .300 Fireball)
.338 Whisper

AR-15, with bolt modification
223 WSSM
5.45x39mm (.21 Genghis)
243 WSSM
6mm PPC
6mm BR Remington
6.5mm PPC
6.5mm Grendel
25 WSSM
6.8x43mm SPC
.30 Herrett Rimless Tactical (6.8x43mm case trimmed to 41mm and necked up to .308; the 6.8mm version of the .300 Whisper)
7.62x39mm
.357 Auto
450 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.50 Action Express
.50 Beowulf

AR-15 using a simple blowback operation
.17 HMR
.22 LR
.22 WMR
9x19mm
40S&W
10mm Auto
45ACP

And a ton of other calibers.  You might buy an AR in 5.56mm and buy the 7.62 x 39mm upper with bolt now that they are starting to make a mag that will hold these.  The regular 5.56 will hold the 7.62 but didn't feed very well and you could only pack about 10 rounds in a 30 round 5.56 mag.

I don't own one personally, but if I did, I think I would buy one to plink with in 7.62 x 39 since the ammo is so cheap.  I'd go with a stainless barrel since there's a lot of cheap corrosive ammo out there and that will really frost up a carbon barrel if not cleaned properly with the right bore cleaner.
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