Ammo Flying Off The Shelf

[Falcon57]

I stopped by the local Walmart to see what shotgun shells were available and was told by the clerk that there was a mad rush to buy ammo of all kinds (I believe that is what she said).  If this is true I need to double my efforts to buy as much buck shot as I can.  I may have to order on the internet to get what I need.

[Nailer]

I am buying it a little at a time , when ever I can find it at a decent price.

[scary]

AMMO is way down.

however, its still obtainable, just get some now


1000 rounds for the AK, ready to roll.

DONT TREAD ON ME!!!

[Nailer]

I was doing some checking today on ammo and the big sites that sell ammo are practicly sold out  unless you want to pay $30 for 50rds of 45ACP, and the 7.62X39 is going for $400 1,000 rds. and they only had 3 cases left.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/

and   http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/rifle-ammo

both sites are just about depleted. Even the 22 cal rds are very low in inventory..  Looks like TPTB plans are working as soon there will be no ammo to buy and then TSHTF.. Good luck finding good ammo at a decent price.

[Nailer]

62701
7.62x39mm Centerfire Rifle Cartridge, 122-Grain Full Metal Jacket Bullet, (7 reviews)
Our Price:$311.34
OUT OF STOCK

AMM-633
Ammo 7.62x39 Wolf Military Classic HP 124 Grain 1000 Round Case Laquer Coated (15 reviews)
Our Price:$399.97
OUT OF STOCK

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?catid=606

[Falcon57]

Found some at a discount if I buy 10 or more boxes:  http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=73840.

I think I will go with this and get as much as I can.

[epinlasvegas]

www.wideners.com www.natchezss.com

[GoingEtheric]

I'm SURE people are buying ammo (maybe for guns they don't even have ). People are nervous, there's a disturbance in the force.

[Wanted]

Ha! From when did walmart start selling ammo?

[a ReVoLuTIONarY ideA]

Ha! From when did walmart start selling ammo?

Since forever ago.

[Nailer]

Ha! From when did walmart start selling ammo?

oh, since Sam walton first  opened walmart.  I remember when you could go in walmart and buy a gun and ammo and walk out with it in 20 minutes and you did not even have to have it in a gun case , all you had to do was show ID that you were 18yrs old..

[Geolibertarian]

I'm SURE people are buying ammo (maybe for guns they don't even have ). People are nervous, there's a disturbance in the force.

"Buying Obama's bullshit claim that he 'respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms,' they are not."

-- Master Yoda

[Falcon57]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-bullets1009feb10,0,2201778.story

[Jaan]

Took bout a week ago with camera phone.  Guy said they couldn't stock enough to keep up with demand.

[IridiumKEPfactor]

Took bout a week ago with camera phone.  Guy said they couldn't stock enough to keep up with demand.

That is atrocious 

I was at a big gun store a few weeks back and it was nothing like that. They were doing ammo inventory and they were 80% stocked but had a very limited supply off Remmington 223. I will have to check back to see what it looks like now.

[scary]

Seriously,

no .22 550 round value packs have been available at the 2 wal marts here for a week.

[Jaan]

9mm, 45, 223 and buckshot are in high demand, not 22. 

22 is not very effective.  better off getting a pellet rifle. dont waste money on a 22 rifle.

[plantop14]

Just ordered me some extra Double Tap ammo yesterday for my carry weapon, 50 rd. box of Double Tap .40 cal. 165gr. Speer Gold Dot for $32.95, $42.90 with shipping! It shipped the same day to! The guy at DT makes hotter loads than the major manufacturers and they shoot really well out of my G23!

[New Whirled Order]

The 40 and 45 cal are really flying of the shelves here in Central Texas.  You can tell that people are stockpiling it in massive amounts.  I'm thinking about buying a 9mm pistol simply because the ammo is cheaper and always seems to be available.

[Nailer]

9mm, 45, 223 and buckshot are in high demand, not 22. 

22 is not very effective.  better off getting a pellet rifle. dont waste money on a 22 rifle.

wrong...  the preferred weapon of a hit man is a 22 cal..  easily silenced and effective.  I have taken down deer with a 22 rifle , right through the eye ..

A 22 is a great  all around  weapon period.

[Nailer]

ALERT!!!  The feds to start the limitation of ammo imported.

vState Department Floating Ammo Import Ban?

http://virginiashootingsportsassociation.blogspot.com/2009/02/state-department-floating-ammo-import.html

Friday, February 13, 2009

It looks like those who said the Obama Administration would strike while the iron is hot may have been correct, and the Administration may be doing it in a way that does not require them to even get a vote in Congress. In this morning's edition of the Shooting Wire (story below), Jim Shepherd writes that Canadian officials have it on "good authority" our State Department may be on the verge of cutting off all imports of certain calibers of ammunition.

Ammos listed for this rumored ban include the .50BMG, 7.62x39mm Soviet, 7.62x51mm NATO, .308 Winchester, 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington. Additionally, we're hearing that an expansion of this proposed ban might be broadened to include the 6.8mm SPC, 9mm Parabellum, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP- among others.

In other words, State Department officials may be floating a trial balloon to see if there are howls of protest, or whimpers of compliance. Canadian elected officials who have directed this information to me say the move seems to be motivated by "emboldened" anti-gun officials who think they have a kindred spirit in President Obama.

Shepherd continues that there may also be a plan to ban exports on certain firearms to Canada from the US, resulting in the State Department hammering gun manufacturers, distributors and exporters in the United States while simultaneously making firearms -and ammunition - ownership and acquisition more difficult for Canadians.

Many in the pro-rights community have said since the election that Obama could circumvent Congress by using regulations in his various cabinet departments to attack gun owners. It appears that it may have already begun.



2nd article..

http://www.shootingwire.com/archives/2009-02-13

No Valentine Coming From the North
Despite the fact that tomorrow's supposed to be the day to show love and affection, it looks like Canadian firearms enthusiasts aren't much in love with parts of the government right now.

The reason? A report making the rounds in Canada that says officials have it on "good authority" that our State Department may be on the verge of cutting off all imports of certain calibers of ammunition.

Ammos listed for this rumored ban include the .50BMG, 7.62x39mm Soviet, 7.62x51mm NATO, .308 Winchester, 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington. Additionally, we're hearing that an expansion of this proposed ban might be broadened to include the 6.8mm SPC, 9mm Parabellum, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP- among others.

In other words, State Department officials may be floating a trial balloon to see if there are howls of protest, or whimpers of compliance. Canadian elected officials who have directed this information to me say the move seems to be motivated by "emboldened" anti-gun officials who think they have a kindred spirit in President Obama.

Additionally, Canadian officials tell me they are hearing rumblings of blanket export bans on certain firearms to Canada and the attachment of DSP-83 End Use Certificates (with their $250 Export Fee) attached to all other types of American firearms.

Should that happen, opposition leaders remind Canadian firearms owners, it will not affect European Union imports. Firearms and ammo exported from Europe would be unaffected- and certainly at far more appealing prices than comparable U-S firearms. In effect, the State Department would be hammering gun manufacturers, distributors and exporters in the United States while simultaneously making firearms -and ammunition - ownership and acquisition more difficult for Canadians. To antigun politicians, this must smell like roses. To pro-gun politicians in Canada, it smells fishy, and they're trying to drum up awareness on both sides of the border because it is "still being fought and the battle isn't over yet."

But it looks like an indirect campaign against firearms and ammo may have already begun.

You read it first here - and we'll keep you posted.

Meanwhile, back in the contiguous 48, four states are considering removing their bans on open-carry firearms. Texas, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Arkansas are each considering legislation that would remove the ban on open-carry handguns.

Surprisingly, open carry is legal in all but six states, including those where concealed carry is not. The other states that ban open carry are New York and Florida.

As expected, Paul Helmke of the Brady Center has offered his opinion on why any carry is a bad idea. "…the more guns you have in a situation," Helmke says in USA Today, "the more likely you are to have gun violence."

Nice quote, despite the fact that facts prove exactly the opposite.

These four states didn't suddenly decide to abolish their rules against open carry. In one case, Texas legislators were motivated by a groundswell of public opinion. 55,000 signatures on a petition and $25,000 in contributions for an ad campaign helped open eyes in Austin. South Carolina has a measure supported by thirty-seven legislators, while only Representative Mike Ritze (Rep.) is listed on the Oklahoma bill filed earlier this month.

No matter which side of the border you're watching, we'll keep you posted.

--Jim Shepherd

[Nailer]

http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=united+states+ammunition+manufacturers&d=75544793318107&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=55f425e3,ebeb8450

This document contains information for importers of firearms and ammunition regarding liability for the Federal Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax on firearms and ammunition (i.e., shells and cartridges). In addition, this document has specific information for informing one-time or occasional importers about their possible liability for this tax and for importers of antique firearms.

[TheCaliKid]

You mean to tell me you foolz didn't stock up enough during the boom years!? 

I did. 

[Nailer]

Sniper Use of Open-Tip Ammunition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MEMORANDUM FOR COMMANDER, UNITED STATES ARMY SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND

SUBJECT: Sniper Use of Open-Tip Ammunition

DATE: 12 October 1990

Summary.

This memorandum considers whether United States Army Snipers may employ match-grade, "open-tip" ammunition in combat or other special missions. It concludes that such ammunition does not violate the law of war obligations of the United States, and may be employed in peacetime or wartime missions of the Army.
Background.

Sierra MatchKing 168-grain match grade boat tail For more than a decade two bullets have been available for use by the United States Army Marksmanship Unit in match competition in its 7.62mm rifles. The M118 is a 173-grain match grade full metal jacket boat tail, ogival spitzer tip bullet, while the M852 is the Sierra MatchKing 168-grain match grade boat tail, ogival spitzer tip bullet with an open tip. Although the accuracy of the M118 has been reasonably good, though at times erratic, independent bullet comparisons by the Army, Marine Corps, and National Guard marksmanship training units have established unequivocally the superior accuracy of the M852. Army tests noted a 36% improvement in accuracy with the M852 at 300 meters, and a 32% improvement at 600 yds; Marine Corps figures were twenty-eight percent accuracy improvement at 300 m, and 20% at 600yds. The National Guard determined that the M852 provided better bullet groups at 200 and 600 yards under all conditions than did the M118. [FNa1]

The 168-grain MatchKing was designed in the late 1950's for 300 m. shooting in international rifle matches. In its competitive debut, it was used by the 1st place winner at the 1959 Pan American Games. In the same caliber but in its various bullet lengths, the MatchKing has set a number of international records. To a range of 600 m., the superiority of the accuracy of the M852 cannot be matched, and led to the decision by U.S. military marksmanship training units to use the M852 in competition.

A 1980 opinion of this office concluded that use of the M852 in match competition would not violate law of war obligations of the United States. (citation omitted) Further tests and actual competition over the past decade have confirmed the superiority of the M852 over the M118 and other match grade bullets. For example, at the national matches held at Camp Perry, OH in 1983, a new Wimbledon record of 2--015 X's was set using the 168-gr. MatchKing. This level of performance lead to the question of whether the M852 could be used by military snipers in peacetime or wartime missions of the Army.

During the period in which this review was conducted, the 180-gr. MatchKing (for which there is no military designation) also was tested with a view to increased accuracy over the M852 at very long ranges. Because two bullet weights were under consideration, the term "MatchKing" will be used hereinafter to refer to the generic design rather than to a bullet of a particular weight. The fundamental question to be addressed by this review is whether an open-tip bullet of MatchKing design may be used in combat.
Legal Factors.

The principal provision relating to the legality of weapons is contained in Art. 23e of the Annex to Hague Convention IV Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land of 18 October 1907, which prohibits the employment of "arms, projectiles, or material of a nature to cause superfluous injury." In some law of war treatises, the term "unnecessary suffering" is used rather than "superfluous injury." The terms are regarded as synonymous. To emphasize this, Art. 35, para. 2 of the 1977 Protocol I Additional to the Geneva Conventions of August 12, 1949, states in part that "It is prohibited to employ weapons [and] projectiles . . . of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering." Although the U.S. has made the formal decision that for military, political, and humanitarian reasons it will not become a party to Protocol I, U.S. officials have taken the position that the language of Art. 35(2) of Protocol I as quoted is a codification of customary international law, and therefore binding upon all nations. The terms "unnecessary suffering" and "superfluous injury" have not been formally defined within international law. In determining whether a weapon or projectile causes unnecessary suffering, a balancing test is applied between the force dictated by military necessity to achieve a legitimate objective vis-à-vis suffering that may be considered superfluous to achievement of that intended objective. The test is not easily applied. For this reason, the degree of "superfluous" injury must be clearly disproportionate to the intended objectives for development and employment of the weapon, that is, it must outweigh substantially the military necessity for the weapon system or projectile. The fact that a weapon causes suffering does not lead to the conclusion that the weapon causes unnecessary suffering, or is illegal per se. Military necessity dictates that weapons of war lead to death, injury, and destruction; the act of combatants killing or wounding enemy combatants in combat is a legitimate act under the law of war. In this regard, there is an incongruity in the law of war in that while it is legally permissible to kill an enemy combatant, incapacitation must not result inevitably in unnecessary suffering. What is prohibited is the design (or modification) and employment of a weapon for the purpose of increasing or causing suffering beyond that required by military necessity. In conducting the balancing test necessary to determine a weapon's legality, the effects of a weapon cannot be viewed in isolation. They must be examined against comparable weapons in use on the modern battlefield, and the military necessity for the weapon or projectile under consideration. In addition to the basic prohibition on unnecessary suffering contained in Art. 23e of the 1907 Hague IV, one other treaty is germane to this review. The Hague Declaration Concerning Expanding Bullets of 29 July 1899 prohibits the use in international armed conflict:

". . . of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions."
The U.S. is not a party to this treaty, but U.S. officials over the years have taken the position that the armed forces of the U.S. will adhere to its terms to the extent that its application is consistent with the object and purpose of Art. 23e of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, quoted above.

It is within the context of these two treaties that questions regarding the legality of the employment of the MatchKing "open tip" bullet must be considered.
Bullet Description.

As previously described, the MatchKing is a boat tail, ogival spitzer tip bullet with open tip. The "open tip" is a shallow aperture (approximately the diameter of the wire in a standard size straight pin or paper clip) in the nose of the bullet. While sometimes described as a "hollow point," this is a mischaracterization in law of war terms. Generally a "hollow point" bullet is thought of in terms of its ability to expand on impact with soft tissue. Physical examination of the MatchKing "open tip" bullet reveals that its opening is extremely small in comparison to the aperture in comparable hollow point hunting bullets; for example, the 165-grain GameKing is a true hollow point boat tail bullet with an aperture substantially greater than the MatchKing, and skiving (serrations cut into the jacket) to insure expansion. In the MatchKing, the open tip is closed as much as possible to provide better aerodynamics, and contains no skiving. The lead core of the MatchKing bullet is entirely covered by the bullet jacket. While the GameKing bullet is designed to bring the ballistic advantages of a match bullet to long range hunting, the manufacturer expressly recommends against the use of the MatchKing for hunting game of any size because it does not have the expansion characteristics of a hunting bullet.

The purpose of the small, shallow aperture in the MatchKing is to provide a bullet design offering maximum accuracy at very long ranges, rolling the jacket of the bullet around its core from base to tip; standard military bullets and other match bullets roll the jacket around its core from tip to base, leaving an exposed lead core at its base. Design purpose of the MatchKing was not to produce a bullet that would expand or flatten easily on impact with the human body, or otherwise cause wounds greater than those caused by standard military small arms ammunition.
MatchKing performance.

Other than its superior long range marksmanship capabilities, the MatchKing was examined with regard to its performance on impact with the human body or in artificial material that approximates human soft tissue. It was determined that the bullet will break up or fragment in some cases at some point following entry into soft tissue. Whether fragmentation occurs will depend upon a myriad of variables, to include range to the target, velocity at the time of impact, degree of yaw of the bullet at the point of impact, or the distance traveled point-first within the body before yaw is induced. The MatchKing has not been designed to yaw intentionally or to break up on impact. These characteristics are common to all military rifle bullets. There was little discernible difference in bullet fragmentation between the MatchKing and other military small arms bullets, with some military ball ammunition of foreign manufacture tending to fragment sooner in human tissue or to a greater degree, resulting in wounds that would be more severe than those caused by the MatchKing. [FNaaa1]

Because of concern over the potential mischaracterization of the M852 as a "hollow point" bullet that might violate the purpose and intent of the 1899 Hague Declaration Concerning Expanding Bullets, some M852 MatchKing bullets were modified to close the aperture. The "closed tip" MatchKing did not measure up to the accuracy of the "open tip" MatchKing.

Other match grade bullets were tested. While some could approach the accuracy standards of the MatchKing in some lots, quality control was uneven, leading to erratic results. No other match grade bullet consistently could meet the accuracy of the open-tip bullet.
Law of War Application.

From both a legal and medical standpoint, the lethality or incapacitation effects of a particular small-caliber projectile must be measured against comparable projectiles in service. In the military small arms field, "small caliber" generally includes all rifle projectiles up to and including .60 caliber (15mm). For the purposes of this review, however, comparison will be limited to small-caliber ammunition in the range of 5.45mm to 7.62mm, that is, that currently in use in assault or sniper rifles by the military services of most nations.

Wound ballistic research over the past fifteen years has determined that the prohibition contained in the 1899 Hague Declaration is of minimal to no value, inasmuch as virtually all jacketed military bullets employed since 1899 with pointed ogival spitzer tip shape have a tendency to fragment on impact with soft tissue, harder organs, bone or the clothing and/or equipment worn by the individual soldier.

The pointed ogival spitzer tip, shared by all modern military bullets, reflects the balancing by nations of the criteria of military necessity and unnecessary suffering: its streamlined shape decreases air drag, allowing the bullet to retain velocity better for improved long-range performance; a modern military 7.62mm bullet will lose only about one-third of its muzzle velocity over 500 yards, while the same weight bullet with a round-nose shape will lose more than one-half of its velocity over the same distance. Yet the pointed ogival spitzer tip shape also leads to greater bullet breakup, and potentially greater injury to the soldier by such a bullet vis-à-vis a round-nose full-metal jacketed bullet. (See Dr. M. L. Fackler, "Wounding Patterns for Military Rifle Bullets," International Defense Review, January 1989, pp. 56-64, at 63.)

Weighing the increased performance of the pointed ogival spitzer tip bullet against the increased injury its breakup may bring, the nations of the world-- through almost a century of practice--have concluded that the need for the former outweighs concern for the latter, and does not result in unnecessary suffering as prohibited by the 1899 Hague Declaration Concerning Expanding Bullets or article 23e of the 1907 Hague Convention IV. The 1899 Hague Declaration Concerning Expanding Bullets remains valid for expression of the principle that a nation may not employ a bullet that expands easily on impact for the purpose of unnecessarily aggravating the wound inflicted upon an enemy soldier. Such a bullet also would be prohibited by article 23e of the 1907 Hague IV, however. Another concept fundamental to the law of war is the principle of discrimination, that is, utilization of means or methods that distinguish to the extent possible legitimate targets, such as enemy soldiers, from noncombatants, whether enemy wounded and sick, medical personnel, or innocent civilians. The highly trained military sniper with his special rifle and match grade ammunition epitomizes the principle of discrimination. In combat, most targets are covered or obscured, move unpredictably, and as a consequence are exposed to hostile fire for limited periods of time. When coupled with the level of marksmanship training provided the average soldier and the stress of combat, a soldier's aiming errors are large and hit probability is correspondingly low. While the M16A2 rifle currently used by the United States Army and Marine Corps is capable of acceptable accuracy out to six hundred meters, the probability of an average soldier hitting an enemy soldier at three hundred meters is ten percent.

Statistics from past wars suggest that this probability figure may be optimistic. In Would War II, the United States and its allies expended 25,000 rounds of ammunition to kill a single enemy soldier. In the Korean War, the ammunition expenditure had increased four-fold to 100,000 rounds per soldier; in the Vietnam War, that figure had doubled to 200,000 rounds of ammunition for the death of a single enemy soldier. The risk to noncombatants is apparent.

In contrast, United States Army and Marine Corps snipers in the Vietnam War expended 1.3 rounds of ammunition for each claimed and verified kill, at an average range of six hundred yards, or almost twice the three hundred meters cited above for combat engagements by the average soldier. Some verified kills were at ranges in excess of 1000 yards. This represents discrimination and military efficiency of the highest order, as well as minimization of risk to noncombatants. Utilization of a bullet that increases accuracy, such as the MatchKing, would further diminish the risk to noncombatants.
Conclusion.

The purpose of the 7.62mm "open-tip" MatchKing bullet is to provide maximum accuracy at very long range. Like most 5.56mm and 7.62mm military ball bullets, it may fragment upon striking its target, although the probability of its fragmentation is not as great as some military ball bullets currently in use by some nations. Bullet fragmentation is not a design characteristic, however, nor a purpose for use of the MatchKing by United State Army snipers. Wounds caused by MatchKing ammunition are similar to those caused by a fully jacketed military ball bullet, which is legal under the law of war, when compared at the same ranges and under the same conditions. The military necessity for its use-- its ability to offer maximum accuracy at very long ranges--is complemented by the high degree of discriminate fire it offers in the hands of a trained sniper. It not only meets, but exceeds, the law of war obligations of the United States for use in combat.
This opinion has been coordinated with the Department of State, Army General Counsel, and the Offices of the Judge Advocates General of the Navy and Air Force, who concur with its contents and conclusions.

An opinion that reaches the same conclusion has been issued simultaneously for the Navy and Marine Corps by The Judge Advocate General of the Navy.


Authored by W. Hays Parks, Colonel, USMC,
Chief of the JAG's International Law Branch
FNa1. The M118 bullet is loaded into a 7.62mm (caliber .308) cartridge. In its original loading in the earlier .30-06 cartridge, it was the M72.

FNaa1. While this review is written in the context of the M852 Sierra MatchKing 168-grain "open-tip" bullet and a 180-grain version, the MatchKing bullet (and similar bullets of other manufacturers) is also produced in other bullet weights of 7.62mm rifles (.308, .30-06, or .300 Winchester Magnum).

FNaaa1. For example, 7.62mm bullets manufactured to NATO military specifications and used by the Federal Republic of Germany have a substantially greater tendency to fragment in soft tissue than do the U.S. M80 7.62mm ammunition made to the same specifications, the M118, or the M852 MatchKing. None fragment as quickly or easily upon entry into soft tissue as the 5.56mm ammunition manufactured to NATO standards and issued to its forces by the Government of Sweden. Its early fragmentation leads to far more severe wounds than any bullet manufactured to military specifications and utilized by the U.S. military during the past quarter century (whether the M80 7.62mm, the M16A1, M193 or M16A2 5.56mm) or the opentip MatchKing bullet under consideration.

http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html

[Nailer]

Common Handgun Ammunition
  .17 Mach 2
Introduced in 2004, this new cartridge is based on a .22 caliber LR rimfire case that is necked down to seat a 17 grain, .17 caliber Hornady V-Max bullet. Although the overall length of the .17 Mach 2 is the same as the .22 LR, the necked portion of the casing is extended to support the smaller projectile. Keeping the overall size the same as the .22 LR made it easier for manufacturers to re-tool .22 caliber rimfire guns to the new .17 Mach 2 cartridge. This is a lightweight supersonic varmint round that, as its name indicates, travels almost twice the speed of sound. Its speed and weight provide a near-flat trajectory to 100 yards, but past that distance it looses effective energy. 

  .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire (HMR)
Introduced in 2002, this new cartridge is based on a .22 Magnum (WMR) rimfire case that is necked down to seat a 17 grain, .17 caliber Hornady V-Max bullet. As done with the .17 Mach 2, the .17 HMR is sized such that manufacturers can easily re-tool .22 WMR gun designs to the new .17 HMR cartridge. This is a supersonic varmint round that travels over twice the speed of sound with near flat trajectory to 100 yards. The larger cartridge and load gives the .17 HMR more than 1-1/2 times the energy at 100 yards then the smaller .17 Mach 2.
 
  .22 Long Rifle (LR)
In 1887 the Stevens Arms Co. developed the .22 Long Rifle rimfire cartridge, which used the .22 Long cartridge case developed 16 years earlier, with a 40 grain round nose bullet loaded to a higher velocity than the older 29 grain .22 Long bullet. Modern .22 Long Rifle High Velocity cartridges drive a 40 grain copper-plated bullet at a muzzle velocity of 1255 fps and muzzle energy of 140 ft-lbs from a rifle barrel. This rimfire cartridge has become the most popular sporting and target shooting cartridge in the world. In 1977 CCI introduced a hyper-velocity version of the .22 LR with a lighter bullet and slower burning powder. The result was a 30% increase in muzzle velocity and a 25% increase in muzzle energy over the High Velocity version.
 
  .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire (WMR)
Introduced in 1959, this cartridge pushes the limits of pressure possible with a rimfire case. Also referred to as the .22 Magnum, the .22 WMR was initially offered with 40 grain FMJ and JHP bullets at an advertised muzzle velocity of 2000 fps from a rifle barrel and 1550 fps from a pistol barrel. Due to the high supersonic velocity, .22 WMR cartridges are loaded with jacketed bullets. Today the .22 WMR is available with bullet weights ranging from about 30 to 50 grains. The standard Winchester 40 grain JHP bullet is now loaded to a rifle muzzle velocity of 1910 fps with a muzzle energy of 324 ft-lbs The various 30-40 grain JHP bullets are best for varmint hunting, but are overly destructive on small game. 

  .25 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) - AKA 6.35mm Browning
This cartridge was introduced in the United States in 1908 with the Browning-designed, Colt manufactured "Vest Pocket" pistol. Also referred to as the .25 Auto, this semi-rimmed centerfire cartridge has fairly high velocity for such a small size. However, the energy it delivers at any range is quite low. This, combined with the full metal jacketed bullet, adds up to a very poor stopping or killing power on anything. The .25 ACP is not powerful enough for hunting anything but pests, nor is it adequate for serious self defense. However, the .25 auto caliber pistols are popular because of their small size and low cost. Recently Winchester introduced a hollow point load in an effort to improve terminal ballistics.

 .32 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) - AKA 7.65mm Browning
Initially introduced in europe in 1899, this semi-rimmed centerfire cartridge came to the United States in 1903 when Colt introduced its "Pocket Model" semiautomatic pistol. Also referred to as the .32 Auto, the .32 ACP was introduced with a 71 grain full metal jacket bullet at a muzzle velocity of slightly over 900 fps with around 130 foot pounds of muzzle energy. Like the .25 ACP, the .32 ACP is considered by many as too weak to be an effective self-defense round. But it has been an extremely popular caliber, notably by the fact that practically all minor and major manufacturers of autoloading handguns in the world have built millions of small pocket autoloaders in .32 ACP. 

 .380 Automatic - AKA 9mm Kurz
The .380 Automatic was introduced by FN of Belgium about 1912 and was designed by John Browning. The cartridge has achieved world-wide acceptance and has even been adopted as the standard pistol cartridge by several governments. One reason for the rounds success is that it is the largest practical cartridge that can be easily adapted to small automatic pocket pistols. Ballistics fall far short of even the 9mm Parabellum, but still prove adequate for most self-defense situations. The round has established quite a niche position in this role, often being chosen over more traditional small calibers such as the .25 and .32 ACPs. Current factory loadings feature a 95-grain bullet exiting a 4 inch barrel at 905 fps with 192 ft-lbs of energy. 

 9x18mm - AKA 9mm Makarov
This is the current Russian military cartridge used in the Makarov and Stechkin auto pistols. It was adopted shortly after the end of World War II, and its design was probably inspired by an experimental German cartridge called the 9mm Ultra. This cartridge is intermediate in size and power, between the .380 Automatic and the 9mm Parabellum. It is a well-designed cartridge for its purpose, although a little underpowered by Western standards. This is a sub-sonic round with a bullet weight typically between 90 and 100 grains and a muzzle energy between 185 and 215 ft-lbs.

 9mm Parabellum - AKA 9mm Luger, 9mm NATO
This cartridge was introduced in 1902 along with the Luger semi-automatic pistol. The pistol and cartridge was first adopted by the German Navy in 1904 and then by the German Army in 1908. This cartridge has since been adopted by the military of practically every non-Communist power. It has become the most popular and widely-used handgun cartridge in the world. Performance wise, the 9mm cartridge has somewhat more power than the .38 Special but falls well short of the .357 Magnum. A typical 115 grain bullet will have an average muzzle velocity of 1200 fps and a muzzle energy around 350 ft-lbs.

 357 SIG
SIGARMS, in partnership with Federal Cartridge, developed the 357 SIG cartridge in 1994. The 357 SIG cartridge uses a bottlenecked .40 S&W casing crimped to a 9mm bullet; this is why the 357 SIG is not written as ".357", as it is not truly a .357 caliber bullet, but is instead a standard 9 mm parabellum (.3550 in). The 357 SIG design is an attempt to create a cartridge with stopping power that would approach the larger .357 Magnum revolver round, but in a smaller package that can fit comfortably in the grip of a semi-automatic weapon. Despite the manufacturer's claims, it is not quite as powerful as an actual .357 Magnum, but it exceeds the power of a .40 S&W cartridge. 

 .40 Smith & Wesson (S&W)
This cartridge was developed as a joint venture between Winchester and Smith & Wesson in 1989. It was an effort to to create a cartridge with the same power as the 10mm Norma round that the FBI had just started using, but in a shorter case. The shorter cartridge would facilitate accuracy and allow use of a smaller, more comfortable grip frame. The .40 S&W has become the cartridge of choice for many law enforcement agencies in the United States. Typical bullet weight for this cartridge ranges from 135 to 180 grains with an average muzzle energy that approaches 500 ft-lbs. 

 .38 Special
Also known as the .38 Colt Special, this cartridge was developed by Smith & Wesson and was introduced with its Military & Police Model revolver in 1902. This was originally a military cartridge to replace the unsatisfactory 38 Long Colt then in use by the Army. Colt brought out its own version of the .38 Special in 1909, which differs from the original only in bullet shape, being a flat-point style. The .38 Special is considered one of the best-balanced, all-round handgun cartridges ever designed. It is also one of the most accurate and very widely used for match shooting. This subsonic round is available with bullet weights ranging from 95 to 200 grains. 

 .357 Magnum
This cartridge was introduced in 1935 by Smith & Wesson for its heavy-frame revolver. Ammunition was developed by Winchester in cooperation with Smith & Wesson. Using a lengthened and strengthened version of the .38 Special case, the .357 Magnum was rapidly accepted by hunters and law enforcement. At the time of its introduction, it was claimed to easily pierce the body panels of automobiles and crack engine blocks. While it has less power than .44 Magnum, it compares favorably to the 10mm Norma and .45 ACP, but with better armor penetration. Today factories offer over fifty different loadings in this caliber. Bullet weights range from 110 to 200 grains with an average muzzle energy exceeding 500 ft-lbs. 

 .44 Remington Magnum
This cartridge was developed by Smith & Wesson and Remington, and was introduced in 1955 for a new heavy-frame 44 Magnum revolver. Today Ruger, Colt, Smith & Wesson and others make revolvers for this cartridge. This is a high powered pistol cartridge designed primarily for hunting. The .44 Magnum offers less power than .50 AE and .454 Casull, but much more than .357 Magnum. The average bullet weight of this cartridge exceeds 200 grains, and the average muzzle energy easily approaches 1000 ft-lbs. 

 .45 Glock Automatic Pistol (GAP)
In 2003 a joint development program by Glock and Speer resulted in a new cartridge - the 45 Glock Automatic Pistol (GAP). The cartridge was designed by GLOCK to be used in the medium frame sized GLOCK 37 semi-automatic pistol. It is based on the .45 ACP pistol cartridge, but is shorter; the same overall length as a 9 mm Luger or .40 S&W. The .45 GAP operates at a higher pressure than the .45 ACP to make up for the smaller chamber volume. It was first believed that the traditional .45 ACP loading of a 230-grain bullet at 830 ft/s would not be possible in the .45 GAP, but careful gunpowder selection on the part of ammunition manufacturers has realized that standard. Typical bullet weights now range from 185 to 230 grains.

 .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP)
This cartridge was developed by John Browning in 1905 and adopted by the United States Ordnance Department, along with the Colt-Browning automatic pistol, in 1911. It has also been made the official military handgun chambering by several other governments, notably Argentina, Mexico and Norway. The 45 Automatic is the most powerful military handgun cartridge in use today. This is a heavy and powerful sub-sonic round with bullet weights from 185 to 260 grains. Although its muzzle energy can exceed 400 ft-lbs, its velocity and bullet weight creates a steep trajectory curve that limits its effective range to self-defense distances. 
[Back] 
http://www.genitron.com/Ammunition/Ammo.html

[Nailer]

http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=united+states+ammunition+manufacturers&d=75546793285234&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=2293b436,41637cec

108 TH CONGRESS 1 ST SESSION    S. 659

To prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition     for damages resulting from the misuse of their products by others.

A BILL To prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued       against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages resulting    from the misuse of their products by others. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa- 1 tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, 2


continue reading at link.

[adissenter2]

That pic by Jaan I can update on..  what similar shelves looked like at Walmart last night(feb 20th) up here in Northwest Montana, very bare only a couple boxes here and there, most the ammo they had remaining was shotgun target and bird loads... I talk to the guys behind the counter every time I stop in and they said that when they get a shipment in it is gone in an hour...

Next stop to check on in this madness is local sporting good stores where ammo is priced higher.. I expect their selves to start looking like Walmart's soon...

If you have a chance to go to a local gun show you had better get there and get your ammo on the first half of the first day the show opens, while you are there talk to the ammo dealers ask them what the scoop is if anyone they should have the low down.

[scary]

Congratulations,

7.62 x 39, is not available on jgsales.com, ammunitiontogo., or ammoman.com.


This is insane.

[911aware]

No ammo at Academy Sports and Outdoors here in texas....shelves wiped clean.

[ES]

I ordered some 762 wolf from Cabela's and it was backordered but shipped about a week after I ordered it. Maybe I got lucky but Maybe Cabela's being a big chain gets first in line for new ammo shipments. Try the big guys when in doubt. They probably have more pull than some internet outfit.

[WarChest]

I stopped by the local Walmart to see what shotgun shells were available and was told by the clerk that there was a mad rush to buy ammo of all kinds (I believe that is what she said).  If this is true I need to double my efforts to buy as much buck shot as I can.  I may have to order on the internet to get what I need.

Wall mart is not buying any more ammo in bulk until the new-tagged ammunition is produced.

Read the bills that the house and senate is putting out people.

[adissenter2]

Stopped at Chinamart today for DvD covers... when there I always go to the gun/ammo section to check on what is going on, more of the same... ammo is gone and when they get a shipment it is gone within the first hour, the interesting thing I noticed this visit was that the shotgun target and bird loads which is usually very well stocked is disappearing as well

to me this is a huge sign especially when money is tight or non existent for most people

[KoWBoY]

Stopped at Chinamart today for DvD covers... when there I always go to the gun/ammo section to check on what is going on, more of the same... ammo is gone and when they get a shipment it is gone within the first hour, the interesting thing I noticed this visit was that the shotgun target and bird loads which is usually very well stocked is disappearing as well

to me this is a huge sign especially when money is tight or non existent for most people

I Have seen the shelves are getting bare around just about everywhere. Had a guy tell me at one of the stores that they had more just they are slow getting it out and stocked.

[Nailer]

Congratulations,

7.62 x 39, is not available on jgsales.com, ammunitiontogo., or ammoman.com.


This is insane.

I bought two , 1000 rd cases saturday at a gun shop at $238 a case.   I visited the hole in the wall gun store , guy sells out of his garage.

He had some great prices  compared to the local gun stores. 9mm was $9.99 for 50 rd boxes, 45ACP was $13, 303 brit was $16 for 20rds.

The owner said he may not be getting ammo shipment as all his suppliers are sold out and it may be between 2-4 months before he gets more.

He told me about a shop 40 miles away that sells target reloads  and the owner guarantees  his rounds  .  I will check them out next week and see just how his supply is.

[rawiron1]

What's up with everyone owning .303s all of a sudden?  I thought that I was the only White kid on the block to own one.

By the way, MY .303 is a No. 4 Mk. II, UNISSUED, UNFIRED!  HA!  Well, it is fired now since I bought it.   

Jason

[Nailer]

What's up with everyone owning .303s all of a sudden?  I thought that I was the only White kid on the block to own one.

By the way, MY .303 is a No. 4 Mk. II, UNISSUED, UNFIRED!  HA!  Well, it is fired now since I bought it.   

Jason

Have you seen the pics of my enfield?

[Nailer]

Not looking good for reloaders and suppliers.

Sunday, March 15, 2009
DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanufacturers

Gordon Hutchinson


It is an end-run around Congress. They don’t need to try to ban guns–they don’t need to fight a massive battle to attempt gun registration, or limit “assault” weapon sales.

Nope. All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless.

Think we jest?

Here are copies of two letters sent to Georgia Arms just Thursday evening–effectively cancelling a contract he had to purchase 30,000 pounds of expended military brass in .223, 7.62mm, and .50 caliber:

Dear Valued Customer:

Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA’s current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

Thank you,

DOD Surplus
15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254

March 12, 2009

Larry Haynie
Georgia Arms
PO Box 238
Villa Rica, GA 30180

Re: Event 7084-6200:

Dear Larry Haynie,

Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.

If you do not agree with the new conditions of your spot sale, please sign the appropriate box provided below stating that you do not agree to the new terms and would like to cancel your purchase effective immediately. If you do agree to the new terms please sign in the appropriate box provided below to acknowledge your understanding and agreement with the new requirements relating to your purchase. Fax the signed document back to (480) 367-1450, emailed responses are not acceptable.

Please respond to this request no later than close of business Monday, March 16th, 2009.

Sincerely,

Government Liquidation.

Got that? From now on, remanufacturers of military brass will not be able to buy surplus brass from DOD–actually from Government Liquidators, llc.–the corporation that sells surplus materials for the U.S. government. At least, not in any form recognizable as once-fired brass ammunition.

Now all brass ammunition will have to be shredded, and sold as scrap.

Georgia Arms, who brought this to our attention, is the 5th largest ammunition manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition in the U.S.

“We’re right up there behind Hornady,” Larry Haynie told me.

He also told me with the cancellation of his contract to purchase this brass, and the ending of his ability to purchase any more expended military ammunition, he will have to severely curtail his operation–laying off approximately half his 60-person work force.

Haynie further pointed out this move is a stupendous waste of taxpayer money–reducing the worth of the brass some 80%–from casings, to shredded bulk brass.

He stated most of this will now go to foundries where it will be melted down, cast in shippable forms, and likely be sold to China, one of the largest purchasers of U.S. metals on the open market.

Haynie was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of .223 ammunition every month, which he sold on the civilian market to resellers, and to law enforcement agencies across the country.

He will start tomorrow sending cancellations of orders for .223 to law enforcement agencies all over the country.

You can expect this to affect every bullet you purchase in the future–with no reloaded ammunition available, the already strained new manufacturers will be unable to meet demand. They are already turning out everything they can build for the military market. The civilian market is stressed to the point even reloading components have become hard to find.

[link to www.theshootist.net]

[Nailer]

Have you seen the pics of my enfield?

here it is  .

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=73904.msg404931#msg404931

[Nailer]

OMG  wolf ammo just went through the ceiling for a 1,000 rd case  $500   

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM633-5.html
Ammo 7.62x39 Wolf Military Classic HP 124gr 1,000-Rd Case 1000 Round Case Laquer Coated Steel Cased Non Corrosive
 17 Customer ReviewsOur Low Price: $499.97

 
Have one to sell? Sell it on Free Ads
   Tell a Friend