***Israel initiates genocidal ground war into Gaza: 1,300 killed > 6,000 wounded

[larsonstdoc]

In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints.

  We wonder if these 5000 have anything to do with the disruptions on rense.com, prisonplanet.com and Prison Planet Forum.

[Pheonix Renewed]

  We wonder if these 5000 have anything to do with the disruptions on rense.com, prisonplanet.com and Prison Planet Forum.

I don't think we have to wonder at all. :p

However, I think this is fantastic. A bunch of students are about to wake up by reading these alternative views they are out to try to change. They're about to become involved in long debates that will force them to think.

There are 5,000 seeds about to be planted in young minds. I have no doubt that some of them are going to come to fruition in amazing ways.

[UK Lyn]

Up on Rense, Lyn
-----------------------

http://uruknet.info/?p=m50076&hd&size=1&l=e


My brief Response to Zionist disinformation
Khaled Amayreh

29 December, 2008


Zionist Hasbara operatives have been claiming that the current Israeli genocidal onslaught in Gaza is a "war against Hamas" and that it was only necessitated by the firing of Palestinian rockets on Israel.

This is a big lie. Read the following:

"Hamas had repeatedly said it was willing and ready to stop "all" firing of projectiles from Gaza if only Israel would lift the deadly blockade. And Israel repeatedly said "No."

Israel has been saying ad nauseam that it ended its occupation of Gaza. Well, why does Israel then retain its control of Gaza skies, Gaza shores, Gaza sea, Gaza border crossings (even with Egypt). Why does Israel retain its control of Gaza life? Why?

Hence, the issue of firing "rockets" on Israel (they are homemade projectiles that make more noise than damage), should be viewed largely as a red herring.

Effectively, Israel has been giving Palestinians in Gaza either of two choices, to die of starvation as a result of the blockade or be exterminated by the Israeli war machine.

Indeed, these so-called "rockets" are nothing more than a desperate outcry for justice, for lifting the deadly blockade. Gaza has simply been reduced to a modern-day Auschwitz. The only difference is that Jews are now playing the role of the SS.

Hamas did meticulously observe a six-month ceasefire, despite the persistence of the Nazi-like blockade which very much resembled the Ghetto Warsaw siege in 1942-43. However, Israel on 13 November, Israel carried out a foray into Gaza, killing 6 people.

More to the point, Israel killed 49 Palestinians during the ceasefire. Not a single Israeli was killed.

Besides, hundreds of Palestinians have perished because Israel would not allow them to access medical care or medicine. I saw many Palestinians die an agonizing death because the "light upon the nations" wouldn't allow them to reach hospital a few blocks away. In short, we are talking about a Judeo-Nazi state. I am saying this because when Jews think, behave and act like Nazis, they become Nazis. We must call the spade a spade, especially when it happens to be in the hands of our gravediggers.

Therefore, it is a big lie to call this war a war against Hamas. This is a Nazi-like war of extermination against the people of Palestine.

If the war were against Hamas, as the war criminals of Tel Aviv keep claiming, Israel wouldn't have targeted market places, drug stores, college buildings, private homes, mosques, cultural institutions, roads, businesses, etc.
Only a state with a Hitlerian mindset would target an entire society and then claim that it is fighting Hamas! It is simply a big lie.

So, Israel is simply carrying out a real genocide...and an indiscriminate one for that matter.

Today, even a Jewish rabbi of imminence used the term "genocide" to describe what Israel is doing in Gaza."

See also Amira Hass’s article in the Ha’aretz newspaper "Israel’s war is not against Hamas, it’s against all the Palestinians."

[OldSchool]

I can usually find some interesting info and articles on www.realjewnews.com.  He's a wise and friendly person. He has seen what goes on there and has waged an infowar against them.

[Joseon]

Hi everybody, this is the best forum in the world!
I am a noob and forgive me for the lack of complete knowledge on all subjects. I want to say, I am free from the Matrix.

Also about Rak, he's a pretty clever guy. He seems to use the Counter-intel strategy really well. Rak poses as a Libertarian/anarchist. He never argues directly against someone's point against the Gaza massacre.  Rak changed topics about Israel and used Native Americans as a talking point to justify the violence in the Gaza strip. That's like asking where the bank is and someone answers, the hospital is a better place to go. WTF?

I support  the "law of the jungle" (versus the "Rule of Law"- ie, NWO)

Rak, you do understand that the law of the jungle and the Rule of law/NWO
is one and the same? If you truly support this notion, you are no better than the NWO murderers.

I guess I'm an isolationist at heart, and don't believe we should be entangled with foreign entities... I may be alone here with so many proponents of "police actions" or Global Government resolutions....

Rak suggests that Americans need to be isolationists in the world in 2008. Well that theory went out the window long ago Rak. Who supplied the munitions to Israel? Who is supplying, lending support to the Israeli Army?
Are American's hands not bloody too? F-16s and Apache Helicopters ring a bell Rak?

I think Rak should be banned if he continues to support Israel's violence against Gaza. He is obviously trying to divide common consensus amongst those that are on the fence about Gaza plight.

[Pheonix Renewed]

Hello Joseon, welcome to the forums, and to the real world.

I would have to disagree with you, though, I don't think Rak is clever at all. I think he's pretty transparent, really.

I agree with you that at this point, we can't just wash our hands of it, we are as responsible as Isreal is. If anything, we need to make restitution to the Gazans by warning Isreal and then protecting the Gazans if Isreal won't desist. But what we know now is that the last thing our government will do, is the right thing. 

[Optimus]

Russia: Hamas ready for conditional truce
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=80036&sectionid=351020202
Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:47:52 GMT
 

Israel is reportedly preparing to launch a ground assault into Gaza.
 
Russia says the Hamas movement is ready to stop its rocket attacks on Israel if Tel Aviv agrees to lift the 18-month blockade of Gaza.

The Russian Foreign Ministry said Wednesday that Hamas's political leader, Khaled Mashaal, announced his side's readiness for a ceasefire.

"(Mashaal) voiced readiness to cease armed confrontation but on condition of the lifting of the blockade of Gaza," said the ministry, AFP reported.

The Russian statement came shortly after the Israeli cabinet rejected an international proposal for a 48-hour humanitarian aid truce in Israeli offensive on Gaza.

"The cabinet decided to continue with the military operation," a senior Israeli official said Wednesday.

After the cabinet meeting, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was quoted as saying that now is not the time to halt the ongoing offensive.

The Israeli raids on Gaza have killed at least 387 Palestinians, while over 1,800 others are reported to be wounded.

Israel says through its military campaign, it seeks to topple the Hamas movement, which took control of the Gaza Strip in mid-June 2007 after winning the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) elections in January 2006.

"After this operation there will not be a single Hamas building left standing in Gaza, and we plan to change the rules of the game," armed forces deputy chief of staff Brigadier General Dan Harel was quoted by Ynet as saying

"We are hitting not only terrorists and launchers, but also the whole Hamas government and all its wings," Harel added.

Meanwhile, an unnamed Israeli foreign ministry official told the Jerusalem Post on Tuesday that destroying the Hamas movement was not on the table.

In retaliation to the attacks on Gaza, Hamas has launched rocket strikes on Israel, killing some six Israelis and wounding sixteen others.

Israel, meanwhile, is reportedly preparing to launch a ground assault into the region.

The Gaza Strip has been under an Israeli blockade since the democratically-elected Palestinian government of Hamas took control of the area.

[Biggs]

it is worth noting that Hamas has always been willing to end the rocket attacks provided Israel ended the blockade/siege of Gaza and allowed them to trade freely for normal goods (i.e. not heavy weapons etc)

it is also worth noting that Raek Heamat seems to have no opinion on the disgarceful and illegal wars of aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan. A vast mind control trick to get dumbed down Americans to behave like murderers in foreign lands in which they have no business being in, one that ruins the life of perhaps 30 - 50% of those Americans and has onyl negative consequences for the target countries and their populations.

[larsonstdoc]

it is worth noting that Hamas has always been willing to end the rocket attacks provided Israel ended the blockade/siege of Gaza and allowed them to trade freely for normal goods (i.e. not heavy weapons etc)

Great point.  All the average person in Gaza wants is to be treated like a human being.

[Biggs]

IAF trying out their new arsenal of deadly super modern weapons on people reduced to third world living standards

Airstrikes resume; Israel drops one ton seismic bombs on Rafah tunnel region
Ma'an news

www.uruknet.info?p=50169

Link: www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=34427

December 31, 2008

Gaza - Ma'an - Israeli airstrikes resumed Wednesday before noon as warplanes dropped one ton seismic bombs on the Rafah tunnel region.

The bombs, which have not yet been used in the Gaza operation, left holes in the earth more than 30 meters deep. While no injuries have been reported, medical crews have not yet been able to reach the area.

Wednesday morning

Rain and overcast skies halted Israeli airstrikes on Gaza Wednesday morning but the military did not stop its barrage of attacks against the area. Warships and artillery vehicles surrounding the Strip launched volleys of shells at the homes of Palestinians in the north and central regions.

Israeli warships targeted the Gaza port for the second time at 7:00am Wednesday, bombarding the area with shells. The sea port, usually the hub of activity for the Mediterranean community, has been abandoned as Gazans remain indoors and away from border areas.

At the Strip’s eastern border with Israel tanks are lined up firing rounds on the residential areas of Tel Az-Za’atar east of Jabaliya. The bombardment killed a Palestinian doctor and injured several others from the medical crew who had rushed to rescue those injured in an earlier round of shelling in the Jabal Ar-Rayyes area.

Israeli shelling continued through the early hours of Wednesday morning. Israeli forces targeted 40 sites in Gaza including the interior ministry and the security buildings in Gaza City, Khan Younis and Jabaliya as well as the naval police headquarters on the coast near Khan Younis.

Tuesday night

Overnight Israeli artillery targeted the headquarters of the de facto government’s General Secretariat of the Council for Ministers and the National Security buildings east of the Al-Bureij refugee camp in central the Gaza Strip. Fire also targeted residential areas where several homes of Hamas’ Al-Qassam Brigades’ leaders are located.

Mounting death toll

According to the de facto government Ministry of Health hospitals have been able to identify 320 of now more than 376 dead in Gaza. According to a statement from the ministry 15% of the dead are women and children. Of the now 1,650 injured, said the statement, almost 45% are children.

Other counts say more than 1,900 are now injured, and that 215 of the injured are in critical condition. Medical sources also said at least 42 of the dead are children.

***Updated 11:56 Bethlehem time

[Biggs]

Gaza health system in state of collapse
PNN

www.uruknet.info?p=50158

Link: english.pnn.ps/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4360&Itemid=1

December 31, 2008


ImagePolly Basak for PNN - At the southern Strip’s European Hospital poised between Rafah and Khan Younis, senior oncologist Dr. Zaki Zakzouk says that 30 seriously injured people are suffering from head and neck wounds.

After a year and a half of siege before the aerial bombings began, 100 critical medicines were already depleted, along with medical supplies. "The situation is becoming more critical by the moment," the Gaza Ministry of Health told PNN.

"They are in urgent need of complex neurosurgical procedures," Dr. Zakzouk stated yesterday. The head and neck injuries need a pulmonary intensive care unit, but due to the severe shortage of beds in the department, only half are connected to ventilating machines, and others are ventilated manually. There remains on Wednesday a particularly acute shortage of type O minus blood. A lack of refrigeration rooms and of ambulances is preventing the transfer of blood from Gaza City's Al Shifa Hospital to the southern Strip's hospitals.

The World Health Organization on Tuesday called for an immediate halt to the killing of hundreds of Palestinians.

"Civilians are paying the price for the prolonged blockade. The shortages of essential and life-saving medicines need to be abated without delay," said the WHO in a statement. "We urge Israel to ensure that medical supplies are channelled to those hit by the military action."

At present, hospitals in Gaza are overflowing with dying and injured people and they do not have the facilities or equipment to cope with this catastrophe. The closure of crossings severely limits the chance of desperately needed humanitarian aid going into Gaza.

As a result of beds in the two main government hospitals in Gaza being full, patients are now being positioned in the corridors. The constant flow of emergency patients entering the hospitals is taking precedent over other patients. Many cancer patients, cardiac patients and chronically ill patients have had to return home so their beds can be used for this crisis.

Dr. Hassan Khalaf, Director General of Al Shifa Hospital, says that its 12 operating rooms have been working constantly since Saturday with the whole medical team on site. The hospital has had to use rooms in other departments as surgical rooms and as a result of the overcrowding has stopped admitting women to give birth.

"If the situation continues unchanged, it will result in a surge of preventable deaths from complications due to trauma," warned the WHO. "We call for the immediate discontinuation of the current violence and the removal of blockades so that much-needed food, water, fuel, medicines and other humanitarian aid can reach those in need."

[Biggs]

Israel and the U.S.: Partners in Permanent Aggression
Glen Ford, Black Agenda Report

www.uruknet.info?p=50168

December 31, 2008



Israel is taking measure of the incoming Obama administration’s sensibilities to the spilling of Palestinian blood in the besieged enclave of Gaza.

A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Glen Ford

'There is only one other nation whose appetite for violence is comparable to the United States: Israel.’

Just before the U.S. elections, Senator Joe Biden shot off his mouth about the certainty that Barack Obama would be 'tested’ early in his presidency. 'Watch,’ said the blathering vice-presidential candidate. 'We’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.’ Biden didn’t predict where the test would come from.

Then, a week before Christmas, a senior Bush State Department official filled in the blanks. Obama’s 'mettle’ would be tested by the Russians, over U.S. anti-missile systems in Eastern Europe.

The truth is, nobody on the planet wants to 'test’ any American president. Everyone knows the Americans are crazy, always looking for a fight, the 'greatest purveyors of violence in the world,’ as Dr. Martin Luther King said back in 1967. There is only one other nation whose appetite for violence is comparable to the United States: Israel, America’s junior partner in aggression.

It is Israel that is testing the limits of world tolerance for its 60-year war against the Palestinian people. More specifically, Israel is taking measure of the incoming Obama administration’s sensibilities to the spilling of Palestinian blood in the besieged enclave of Gaza. Israel’s aerial blitzkrieg and long-standing blockade of 1.5 million people is a crime against humanity for which its sponsor and champion, the United States, is equally guilty. But the Israeli leadership understands that complicity in crime must be constantly renewed, so that each party is reminded that its hands are also soaked in blood. The Israeli atrocity against Gaza serves as a ritual renewal of its special relationship with yet another U.S. administration.

'Both countries are under the permanent control of their respective war parties.’

Not that Barack Obama’s loyalties to Israel have ever been suspect. As a candidate, Obama went further than any U.S. president in recognizing Israeli sovereignty over all of Jerusalem - a position that guarantees there can be no lasting peace in the region. Obama’s right-hand man, chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, is a born-and-bred Zionist who volunteered to work for the Israeli army during the 1991 Gulf War. And the Bush regime’s Defense Department, a bastion of Israeli Likud Party warmongers, is about to be transformed into the Obama Defense Department, with few changes in personnel, including the guy at the top, Secretary Robert Gates, who is being retained.

Israel and the United States have a wartime alliance that never quits, since both nations are constantly at war. Both countries are under the permanent control of their respective war parties - although Israel gets the better part of the deal, since her domestic war party has also infiltrated both U.S. political parties.

Despite the deep ties that bind American and Israeli war criminals, the junior partner, Israel, seems to constantly need reassurance that the senior gangster, Washington, is a willing accomplice in the next bloodbath. Thus, the timing of the massacre in Gaza, ensuring that Obama - by deferring to Bush - enters office with blood on the soles of his shoes. He has passed the Israeli test.

For Black Agenda Radio, I’m Glen Ford.

BAR executive editor Glen Ford can be contacted at Glen.Ford@BlackAgendaReport.com

[Rak HaEmet]

I'd personally like to add to your list:

4--Demand that our military NO LONGER involve themselves in this matter because a Constitutional war has NOT be declared and we have no business over in the Middle East or aiding Israel in any way. Preferably, we would never have offered our military technology in the first place, but since we fund not only the US military, but the Israeli military with our tax dollars, this point is nearly moot. Regardless, calling in the US to aid Israel (the aggressor) in this tragedy and in Israel's other military ambitions is OUT OF LINE and unconstitutional.

5--As individual, soverign citizens, become active in ways to bring an end to the suffering. This might include going over there, putting oneself in harm's way to help the injured or killed and their families, or sending other materials to independent, NON-governmental, citizen run organizations who are physically there to help. Either way, our government should not involve itself in sending aid. It should be done entirely outside the realm of the state. If citizens are attacked and killed as the result of being a US citizen specifically, then we have a different situation on our hands.

Thank the heavens for you Bushido! I wholeheartedly agree with you, and can even report my progress on your #5. After academic education on ME history, culture and politics, I moved to Israel and lived there for three years. My personal aim was to get involved in conflict resolution through building communication between the factions. I became fluent in Hebrew, and competent in Arabic whilst on my adventure. From a first hand experience, working with nonprofits, NGOs, and locals, I came to realize what you have eloquently stated below, "Peace will come to Middle East when those who live there choose peace over war for whatever reason. " 

From an Amerikan cultural background, really designed for outcome based perspectives, these actors in the M.E. really look at things differently. First, they're much more tribal than anything anyone living within the union is comfortable with (or able to assimilate into). I liken this to the old days of New York, before a hegemonic culture (the days of the Kikes, Miks, Whops, Krauts, etc). Neither were the actors very outcome bases, but rather, very reactionary. I watched what would be insanity thought insane here, as they would build buildings somewhere knowing that within 3 months it would be torn down. Strange cultures with so different a value base!

I get where you are coming from, but first and foremost, how can we be aiding a country that has, in the past at least, killed our own citizens (USS Liberty)? We should first separate our militaries. As of now, they function as one unit. Whatever Israel does, the US supports and vice versa. My outrage in this situation is that the US (on paper) seems to blindly follow Israeli policies when I think we should not be automatically supporting Israel. I'd have a problem if we blindly followed Germany or Canada or any other country's military as blindly as we have followed and supported Israel. Your comments make sense for a situation like Kosvo (which I was against, btw).

Spoken like a true patriot sir. Thank you. I personally don't think the socialist states of Amerika should be sending ANY foreign aid from the tax coffers (I support local foundations or fundraising efforts by the Citizenry wholeheartedly).

First thing is first, we have to break up the joint venture in this. I think of it as a little brother who constantly calls in his bigger brother in a bad situation--at some point, little brother has to learn to stand on his own two feet. Maybe Israel would think twice about slaughtering the Palestinians and being overly threatening if left to their own devices. And no, I'm not calling for an end to Israel. If all the Arab nations starting unjustly attacking Israel, I'd be the first calling for aid (not government based of course) from individuals around the world.

I get that there are MANY screwed up things about the region, not the least of which being how the area was carved up by the British. If they want to fight it out, let them. I agree with you that calling on the UN and other organizations is utter BS and only serves a globalist agenda. Waging war for peace is complete BS and intellectually bankrupt. I'm sure there would be war for awhile, but at some point, someone has to conclude how utterly pointless mutual assured destruction is. Let them talk it out. Peace in the Middle East will not come about at the point of a gun, nor will it come about by the US marching in there, nor will it come about solely by the US pulling out of the region.

Peace will come to Middle East when those who live there choose peace over war for whatever reason.

Being an optimistic idealist, I think that people more often than not choose peace over war, but the NWO brainwashes and churns the hatred. When the NWO loses that ability, peace will happen faster. The point of protesting (to me at least) in this situation is first to break military ties to Israel and then to educate others about the injustice in the region. Either way, "intervention" rarely works and should not be done by the US. Just my more than $0.02.

Thanks for putting your 2 cents in bro- I was beginning to think that the PP Forum had been overrun with globalist agitators.

[Rak HaEmet]

There are multitudes of other options. You're simply stuck in your box, unable to think of any solution besides violence. You're the one entranced, entranced by your love of violence, entranced by your love of slaughter, death, and "animal instincts."

Sovereign nations can agree to work together without being in a "UN." What a shocker. How bizarre. Who would have ever thought of such a bizarre, unnatural, peculiar thing... people who aren't being forced to by laws, working together.

Bro, where your and my value system diverges is if you are going to mobilize sovereign nations into a globalist police force (at it often times appears you're getting at). The citizenry of this place or that can do as they please, and support (or ship arms, food, money, join a foundation, start a movement) this side or that. Similarly, I point to the simple fact that the amount of effort you're putting into this is much better spent trying to rid the local tyrants than dedicating resource, time and energy into something so distant and emotionally tumultuous.

If the rest of the world stood up right now, together, and turned their backs on Isreal, to not sell to them, to not buy from them, to not accept anything from them or give anything to them.... this would end. If the rest of the world, collectively, without even being in any kind of "UN," were to show up with their militaries beside ships and planes bringing ONLY humanitarian aid to Gaza, and fired upon anyone or anything that dared attack... the Gazans would get aid.

I agree with you bro. That would make change; HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT THE PERPETRATORS OF THE GLOBALIST AGENDA ARE A PRIORITY OVER ANY SQUABBLING DETAILS.  Obviously, in your value system, you're more concerned with the symptoms of a problem than fixing the problem itself. I urge you to join me in the greater fight, and stop watching that hypnotizing watch going to and fro.

You're a narrow-minded, incompetent thinker. You pompously declare there are only 3 possibilities, arrogantly suggest that anyone who doesn't agree with the ONLY three possibilities that exist (because you say so) is under the mind control of the NWO (who thinks the same way you do-- the powerful will rule, and the rest can die, because they're just weak pieces of shit).

You very well may be right- I may be such a thinker. I'd imagine you're younger than 22 years old, and still wet behind the ears in your idealism and emotional responses. I'd prefer to use my mind over my heart anyday, and leave such emotional reactions to the young and the female.

The furvor you're wrapped into- all that emotional blindness- is going to help create and enhance the globalist agenda (problem- Hamas vs Israel; reaction- look in the mirror; Solution- some UN court/military action/global aid, etc). Why not look up from your work on liberty issues, feel sad that such happens in the world, and rejoin your efforts to clear the slate with such evidence of the hagelian principle!?!

You clearly show yourself to be that which you project onto others-- the one unable to think outside of your programming. Your answer to everything is violence and brute force. You give 3 options, based upon your incapability to think beyond brute force.

You misread me bro- my stance has never been about brute force- it has been about a conviction, you hold so strong, as to be worth more than your very life.  A life can be bought for $5 on some urban street- but something as precious as an ideal worthy of sacrificing a life for... that is something worthy of all our honor.  To wit, I have already put my balls in the vice, on several occasions, for several issues, and while my stances may seem brutish, I'm also old enough to avoid sugar coating a turd, and just like to choke them down when they come.

In the world you so emotionally respond to- it is always a man, at the end of the issue, who is deployed because he is good at what he does- brute force. If you're going to implore someone to alter their course, you're using psycological tactics- you can buy them off with economic tactics- if they continue to defy your peace-loving-happy-let's get along demands- you send in a military force made up of men skilled in the same thing you deplore: brute force. (btw, I was such a savage dog in my day, and I do see all your whinnying as putting someone like my young self into harms way for your (IMHO deplorable) efforts to control someone else.

There are multitudes of solutions here. Multitudes of ways that the world can stand up to Isreal and put a stop to their slaughter. Violence does NOT have to be answered by violence. Economic sanctions have existed for a long time. There are ways to make economic sanctions even more effective, as well... like sending humanitarian aid and nothing else. Then if they steal the humanitarian aid, you send military with it.

hahaha. I was hoping you'd be wiser than to fall into that trap bro! You're proposing economic sanctions because economic sanctions are abhorrent?? C'mon man, even you can't peddle that after all the guff you've published about it....

Sending aid- I'm totally game with. If you're a supporter of the Israeli side of it, just write a check to your local jewish federation. If you're supporting Hamas, send them a check (but please speak with your legal counselor about whether or not any donor recipient is listed as a terrortist money launderer according to us federal law)

But, these options (of which you mention, and I fully support), I implore you (psycological tactic) not to rally government forces or resources to seek your aims. (I'm certain there is a good forum for those who are very supportive of one camp or the other, and find this as their pinnacle issue... I thought the PP forum was organizing and discussing efforts against the NWO myself, and that's why I'm here. I understand this issue is part of it, but see that many of you are fervent about it and note the difference between the number of views of this thread versus the Mumbai attacks...)

You're a sick f**k, a monster, and stupid on top of it. Think for yourself for a change. The last thing the NWO wants is people who give a shit about other people. They want sick f**ks like you, who think humans are worthless pieces of shit, animals, things that DESERVE to die for being weak. Because you won't care until they come for YOUR family, and you'll even help them in their eugenics program. You'll be the guy who will take payoffs and promises and kill your fellow man and torture them, because after all, the NWO is too powerful, so if you can't beat them, reap the rewards of joining them in their horror.

I won't argue with you bro. I wasn't made for this world... maybe I wouldn't agree with the stupid part, but haven't made up my mind yet ;-)

IMHO, one whose emotions are as vibrant and overwhelming as yours, are used and manipulated by others who are using their minds. I find your discussion about having feelings for someone else quite irrelevent as it relates to recognizing their rights. My ability to stand up, and put my back into an effort to secure someone else's right to say something I disagree with- is the particular point of value. (Please note- standing up for someone you disagree with is the imperative here....)

In all your emotive convultions, you've misread me again bro. Allow me to clarify- I do not believe people are shit. I believe that each man is responsible for his own actions. My record is testament itself, that I have stood up, and supported others' (with whom I have disagreed with) rights.... hahaha... even fined by the feds for it! hahaha. So, your shill attempts to entwine me into your hatred of a particular people isn't going to work. Truly, if I was suspect for being an Israeli shill, I would abhor genocide... you've got your wires cross again in the red you're seeing through your emotional rage bro. Slow down, take a breath.

You've exposed your cowardice. You've exposed your true nature. You have become the monsters they've hoped to create, a person with no regard for humans, a person who thinks himself a mere animal and who doesn't know he has higher reasoning and the capacity for compassion.

You ARE that which you hate. You ARE the NWO. You ARE a monster who has dehumanized those around you, unaware of their humanity; their dreams and hopes; their inherent beauty, worth, and value. You ARE the eugenics program personified.

hahaha. Now I'm thinking you must be 16 yrs old! Nonsense. In such a case, then Dr. Ron Paul is also the NWO? =D A non-intervention (I did mispeak earlier freeski- you're right- I'm a non-interventionist), state soveriegnty supporter, who believes that each actor on the world stage (the states) stands or falls by their own actions, and is similarly responsible for such?

I think that your heart has been strum, and you're being used in an endeavor that will further globalist control.

You tell yourself that our "emotive response" is what they want, but what they really want, as is clear all over the place, is desensitization and dehumanization. They LIKE us seeing each other as animals, worthless and stupid and probably even better off dead. You are the kind of uncaring, brutal, might-makes-right monster they are trying to turn all people into, so that we will turn on each other and do their job of killing ourselves and each other off that much faster.

WAKE THE f**k UP.

I guess you could be right bro. You could be. If the end objective is to secure liberty and justice for all, and you get there through wearing your heart on your sleeve, and I get their reading Thomas Paine... well, so long as we both arrive to the same mountain.

[voodo0]

Israel rejects truce call, pursues bombing Gaza

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israel resisted mounting international pressure Wednesday to suspend its devastating air offensive against militants in Hamas-ruled Gaza, sending more troops and tanks to the border as signs of an impending ground invasion multiplied. A long column of tanks and other army vehicles, two and three abreast, was strung out along an access road to Gaza. Dozens of tanks were parked in a rain-sodden field on the frontier.
Commanders were moving forward with preparations for a possible ground assault, said an Israeli defense official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information.
Earlier this week the government approved the callup of more than 9,000 reserves soldiers.
Heavy cloud cover that could encumber ground forces was expected to lift Thursday.
The diplomatic action was set in motion by Israel's aerial campaign, now in its fifth day, aimed at snuffing out militant rocket barrages that are striking ominously close to the Israeli heartland.
Gaza officials put the death toll at more than 390 dead and 1,600 wounded. Hamas says some 200 uniformed members of Hamas security forces have been killed, and the U.N. says at least 60 Palestinian civilians have died. Israeli defense officials say Hamas' top military and political leaders have gone underground and have not been touched.
Four Israelis have been killed by militant rocket fire, including three civilians.
The chief of Israel's internal security services, Yuval Diskin, told Cabinet ministers Wednesday that Hamas' ability to rule had been "badly impaired."
Weapons development facilities have been "completely wiped out" and a network of smuggling tunnels that has been Hamas' lifeline has been badly damaged, a participant in the meeting quoted Diskin as saying. He spoke on condition of anonymity because the meeting was closed to the media.
A senior military officer said Wednesday that Israeli warplanes had made some 500 sorties against Hamas targets in Gaza and attack helicopters flew hundreds more combat missions in five days of fighting.

[Pheonix Renewed]

Bro, where your and my value system diverges is if you are going to mobilize sovereign nations into a globalist police force (at it often times appears you're getting at).

Sorry, sister, you've outed yourself, and I'm done talking to you. All of your ranting and ravings and ramblings do you no good. Your claims are off-base and ridiculous. You enjoy violence, you denigrate people as well as yourself, and you think you know things that you most certainly don't. I've been in the military myself, and argued for my right to enter combat with everyone else. If I have to, I will fight. You are so limited in your thinking, in your narrow little mind, in your trap of violence and selfishness, that you are incapable of understanding that it's both possible to see human beings as human beings, and still fight if push comes to shove.

You've lost any opportunity you had to make any kind of rational and reasonable argument to me. You've failed utterly and completely at doing so. I've given you ample opportunities, and yet you remain entrenched in your love of violence as the only solution. You are a collosal hypocrite, in that you want to force people to live by violence alone, yet you rage that I dare say that I would seek to see people live without violence against the weak.

So, sister, you continue to tout violence, you continue to tout that everyone should be allowed to be as brutal and violent towards others as they desire. You will never convince me, simply because you are wrong.

Have a nice day, girl friend.

[thadividedsky]

Hi everybody, this is the best forum in the world!
I am a noob and forgive me for the lack of complete knowledge on all subjects. I want to say, I am free from the Matrix.

Also about Rak, he's a pretty clever guy. He seems to use the Counter-intel strategy really well. Rak poses as a Libertarian/anarchist. He never argues directly against someone's point against the Gaza massacre.  Rak changed topics about Israel and used Native Americans as a talking point to justify the violence in the Gaza strip. That's like asking where the bank is and someone answers, the hospital is a better place to go. WTF?
Rak, you do understand that the law of the jungle and the Rule of law/NWO
is one and the same? If you truly support this notion, you are no better than the NWO murderers.

Rak suggests that Americans need to be isolationists in the world in 2008. Well that theory went out the window long ago Rak. Who supplied the munitions to Israel? Who is supplying, lending support to the Israeli Army?
Are American's hands not bloody too? F-16s and Apache Helicopters ring a bell Rak?

I think Rak should be banned if he continues to support Israel's violence against Gaza. He is obviously trying to divide common consensus amongst those that are on the fence about Gaza plight.

Welcome to the forum. You're more awake than you give yourself credit for. These Israel supporters were nowhere to be seen until Israel attacked Gaza on Christmas. Now they're out in force, spewing lie after lie after lie. Here are the facts. The weapons being used on the women and children were manufactured here in the US. We are involved in this despicable crime against humanity. The money being spent by Israel for this atrocity came from the US as well. We're basically paying for the murder of these people. It sickens me. The corrupt Israeli govt. constantly starts conflicts with it's neighbors and it needs to end. If Israel can't learn to get along with the rest of the middle east, then I think Israel should be gone and the land handed back to the rightful inhabitants. Hell with it, that land should be given back ANYWAY. Oh, BTW Rak, I am of native American descent and my family has YET to forgive the murderous slaughter of our people. Just because it was the norm back then does not make it right. I will not weep if Israel ceases to exist in the future. I weep for the innocent, defensless Palestinian people who get bombed while praying in a mosque for peace. That's really brave, the f**kers drop guided bombs on people who can't protect themselves. Lastly, Rak shouldn't be banned. Let him/her make the statements he/she makes, nobody takes him/her seriousley. The noobs can figure that out pretty quickly since the co-intel pro, AIPAC and MK Ultra hacks are pretty easy to spot.

[Rak HaEmet]

Welcome to the discussion Joseon- glad to have you. In discussing an issue, we learn about ourselves, other points of view, and our own. You're a valued contributor!

Also about Rak, he's a pretty clever guy. He seems to use the Counter-intel strategy really well. Rak poses as a Libertarian/anarchist. He never argues directly against someone's point against the Gaza massacre.  Rak changed topics about Israel and used Native Americans as a talking point to justify the violence in the Gaza strip. That's like asking where the bank is and someone answers, the hospital is a better place to go. WTF?
Rak, you do understand that the law of the jungle and the Rule of law/NWO
is one and the same? If you truly support this notion, you are no better than the NWO murderers.

I do confess bro- I am a (little "l") libertarian/anarchist =D and proudly so.

You're right, I have avoided getting muddled into the emtional issue of what is happening in Gaza, and trying to put it into what I believe is the context of current events. I have lived over there, and worked on these same issues personally. Is it awful that Gaza kids are killed- of course. Is it awful that Israeli kids are killed- of course. My point is- lets not become pawns in an effort to build "global consensus" or such for empowering supranational endeavors to subjegate a nation's sovereignty- further, let's redouble our efforts on our own tyrants here locally where we have a more powerful voice.

I think your mountain is really a mole hill, and am surprised at the surplus of hype in this issue- where where you guys during the end-the-fed rally? How much have time/money have you invested into the C4L? How many Infowars sponsors have you promoted to your friends and family?  How is this issue different from Georgia-Taiwan-Iceland, etc??? Truly, we could rant and boister about all of these- but the problem is still the same- globalism! Why conjure up a recipe for a symptom instead of attacking the true source?

Rak suggests that Americans need to be isolationists in the world in 2008. Well that theory went out the window long ago Rak. Who supplied the munitions to Israel? Who is supplying, lending support to the Israeli Army?
Are American's hands not bloody too? F-16s and Apache Helicopters ring a bell Rak?

So, why don't you guys put the attention where it properly belongs? Why not join Dr. Ron Paul, and support the ceasation of ALL FOREIGN AID! Like my previous statements- these actors, the PLO & Israel, are responsible for their own actions.

I think Rak should be banned if he continues to support Israel's violence against Gaza. He is obviously trying to divide common consensus amongst those that are on the fence about Gaza plight.

Haahahaha. You're showing your true colors here bro! -that was far too transparent. So then, you and I are not brothers, and you wouldn't stand up to defend the ability of another, especially if he doesn't agree with you?

If one does not have the righteous ability to "divide common consensus" in your book- then you're definately supportive of social-contract tyranny. In my book- the only voices that should get special attention are those unharmonious the common consensus. I, unlike you, am a proponent of individualism, and 1. don't fall into consensuses anyway, and 2. prefer to weigh an individual on the merits of their argument and can't see a consensus even if there was one.

My "jury" is out whether or not you've arrived at a forum that compliments you well, or one that disagrees with your basic principle understanding of "freedom"....


p.s. some basic terminology I may use- "Rule of Law" versus the "Law of the Jungle" refers to whether actors in the nation-state system are peers, or if there is a supranational organization/body of law/military that arbitrates disagreements between actors.

old west examples of these- "Rule of Law" -two cowboys get drunk and argue whether or not the Alamo should go back to the Mexicans. The argument increases until one enrages, pulls a knife and threatens the life of the other. Sherriff Rocky the fella hears the comotion, and throws the rager in the crowbar motel.

"Law of the Jungle" -two cowboys meet on the range, as one of them begins to run off with a few head of cattle. The other pursues, and orders the thief to leave the cows be. They face off over some rocky ground and make their own desicions of what is about to happen next.

(Global Government is the "Rule of Law" enforcing agreements, treaties, and such- the old nation-state system is the "rule of the jungle" whereby each actor is responsible for their own actions)

[Joseon]

thanks dividedsky for your kind words. I read a teaspoon of history of Native Americans; I should read more. Before 1800, the military used poisoned blankets, infested with small pox, as a gift/truce to the natives.  I personally sympathize with your great people, at the hands of treacherous men. I wish, I learned the truth of that particular matter long ago. I could have educated others in highschool, college and elsewhere regarding the long history of evil that men did to Native Americans.

Rak is meaningless and you are right about him. It is easier to let the moderator control the trolls. They do a super job.

[PaladinRoden]

I think Rak should be banned if he continues to support Israel's violence against Gaza. He is obviously trying to divide common consensus amongst those that are on the fence about Gaza plight.

As long as Rak is presenting his point of view in a civilized manner and is following the rules of the forum, I don't believe he should be banned. Freedom of Speech is very dear to me and I believe one should be able to debate and share ideas no matter if I agree or disagree. I have read some threads and have stepped back and said "wow, I do not agree" however, never do I support the silencing of ideas. Don't get me wrong I do not agree with Rak, however, I don't agree with you either in banning those because of different points of view. Keep it civil and make up your mind.

[thadividedsky]

I don't believe Rak is a troll. He/she is well aware of what's going on and I understand his/her thought process from the responses I see. The simple thing is we all are in this together and the NWO wants us ALL dead. We all don't have to agree with eachother on everything, but 1 thing we can agree on is war is wrong, regardless who starts it or finishes it. Evil is prevailant in this world and most people have strayed from gods word. If we don't have each others backs in this fight for liberty and life, then we're all f**ked. LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC. GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH, NEW WORLD ORDER, WE ARE NOT YOUR SLAVES YOU LIFEBLOOD SUCKING VAMPIRES.

P.S. you're welcome for the kind words. There isn't enough kindness in the world, sometimes I am unkind and pray every day I will become a better person.

[Rak HaEmet]

I don't believe Rak is a troll. He/she is well aware of what's going on and I understand his/her thought process from the responses I see. The simple thing is we all are in this together and the NWO wants us ALL dead. We all don't have to agree with eachother on everything, but 1 thing we can agree on is war is wrong, regardless who starts it or finishes it. Evil is prevailant in this world and most people have strayed from gods word. If we don't have each others backs in this fight for liberty and life, then we're all f**ked. LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC. GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH, NEW WORLD ORDER, WE ARE NOT YOUR SLAVES YOU LIFEBLOOD SUCKING VAMPIRES.

P.S. you're welcome for the kind words. There isn't enough kindness in the world, sometimes I am unkind and pray every day I will become a better person.

bless your heart thadividedsky, you've got the mission objective in the crosshairs.

-and to the others, for supporting my rejection of consensus membership- much appreciated.

[Freeski]

I don't believe Rak is a troll. He/she is well aware of what's going on and I understand his/her thought process from the responses I see. The simple thing is we all are in this together and the NWO wants us ALL dead. We all don't have to agree with eachother on everything, but 1 thing we can agree on is war is wrong, regardless who starts it or finishes it. Evil is prevailant in this world and most people have strayed from gods word. If we don't have each others backs in this fight for liberty and life, then we're all f**ked. LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC. GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH, NEW WORLD ORDER, WE ARE NOT YOUR SLAVES YOU LIFEBLOOD SUCKING VAMPIRES.

I agree. Don't ban the Rak.

[Doctor No NWO]

Israel says no to Gaza ceasefire
Thursday, January 01, 2009 » 07:07am
Live News:    

Israel has ruled out agreeing to a temporary truce in its offensive on Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip.

Protests mushroomed around the globe on Wednesday as the world's top diplomats scrambled to find a way to stop one of Israel's deadliest-ever offensives on Gaza that has so far killed at least 390 Palestinians.

As the Israeli security cabinet convened in Tel Aviv to consider international proposals of a truce, a senior government official told AFP the Jewish state would not agree to a French offer of a 48-hour lull.

'The proposition by the French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner for a unilateral temporary ceasefire is not useful as it is evident that Hamas will not stop firing rockets against Israel, said the official on condition of anonymity.

A foreign ministry spokesman said that the Jewish state would only consider a permanent halt to its operation, if Hamas stops firing rockets and acquiring arms.

'There is a dialogue... aiming to reach a serious deal for a permanent ceasefire under certain conditions,' Yigal Palmor said.

'In order for this truce to be realistic, we need guarantees and conditions. Hamas must stop its rocket fire and acquiring arms. These are indispensable conditions if a permanent truce is to be seriously considered,' he said.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert late Tuesday discussed with his foreign and defence ministers a French proposal for a 48-hour truce, but his office said the premier had imposed a strict blackout on details of the meeting.
A spokesman for Ehud Barak said Israel's defence minister was looking favourably at the proposal for a brief ceasefire but stressed that this would not prevent the Jewish state  from preparing for a possible ground offensive.

On the ground, Israeli jets continued to hammer Hamas targets throughout Gaza, carrying out more than 35 strikes overnight targetting government offices, weapon storage facilities and contraband tunnels, the army said.

Since being launched on Saturday, the Israeli offensive has killed at least 390 people, including 42 children, and wounded more than 1,900 others according to Gaza medics. [/color],

The massive Israeli assault has left many Hamas structures and bases in rubble and has killed several senior officials of the Islamist group.

But it has failed to stop the rocket fire, with militants firing more than 20 rockets alone on Wednesday morning, causing damage and light wounds.

Since late Tuesday, Hamas's armed wing sent five rockets slamming around the desert town of Beersheva some 40km from the Gaza border - the deepest its projectiles have reached into Israel yet.

Hamas has remained defiant in the face of the Israeli onslaught, vowing to reach ever-deeper into Israel with its rockets.

'We tell the leaders of the enemy - if you continue with your assault, we will hit with our rockets further than the cities we have hit so far,' a masked spokesman for the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, the Hamas armed wing, said in televised comments late on Tuesday.

Since the start of the Israeli offensive, Gaza militants have fired more than 250 rockets into Israel, killing three civilians and one soldier and wounding several dozen people.

Hamas has also threatened to carry out suicide attacks inside Israel for the first time since January 2005.

As anger over the offensive spiralled in the Muslim world, diplomatic efforts have gathered pace.





Braking it Down

Israel has ruled out agreeing to a temporary truce
killed at least 390 Palestinians. including 42 children, and wounded more than 1,900 others
the Jewish state
Israeli offensive
'The proposition by the French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner for a unilateral temporary ceasefire is not useful
Hamas must stop its rocket fire and acquiring arms.
the premier had imposed a strict blackout on details of the meeting.
but stressed that this would not prevent the Jewish state   from preparing for a possible ground offensive.

You seeing what I am seeing here?  

[Rak HaEmet]

Here are the facts. The weapons being used on the women and children were manufactured here in the US. We are involved in this despicable crime against humanity. The money being spent by Israel for this atrocity came from the US as well. We're basically paying for the murder of these people. It sickens me.

Believe it or not- I'm in full agreement with you here! The corrupt federal government of the union is using brute-force to thieve resources from the citizenry, and then turn around and build a problem-reaction-solution abroad- thus furthering regional/global control. We're in full agreement! Hurray! (it does sicken me too- and that's how I got started in the patriot movement- because of unconstitutional agencies/directives that enslave me, my children, and my neighbors in order to do bidding for the power elite)

The corrupt Israeli govt. constantly starts conflicts with it's neighbors and it needs to end. If Israel can't learn to get along with the rest of the middle east, then I think Israel should be gone and the land handed back to the rightful inhabitants. Hell with it, that land should be given back ANYWAY.

I have thus far assumed you were speaking of a multilateral/global effort (or perhaps unilateral), but let me ask you-

a. HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO MAKE IT "END"?
b. WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE TO MAKE ISRAEL "BE GONE"? 
c. HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO HAVE THE "LAND HANDED BACK TO THE RIGHTFUL INHABITANTS"?
d. WHO DO YOU FEEL HAS AUTHORITY/CREDIBILITY TO DETERMINE THE "RIGHTFUL INHABITANTS"?

Oh, BTW Rak, I am of native American descent and my family has YET to forgive the murderous slaughter of our people. Just because it was the norm back then does not make it right.

The long struggle continues, eh? Keep up the good fight meantime, and avoid assimilation and membership in the common consensus; otherwise, your people will cease to exist, like mine, except for in legend. I too haven't forgiven the slaughter of my ancestors, and their cultural decimation. I do wish they would have put up a better fight, and not fallen under the Romans' hand. ... you know, I can think that both the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis would both vibe with you on that. They (both of the parties) feel their cultural survival swings in the balance- even now.

I will not weep if Israel ceases to exist in the future. I weep for the innocent, defensless Palestinian people who get bombed while praying in a mosque for peace. That's really brave, the f**kers drop guided bombs on people who can't protect themselves.

I hope similarly, you will be as accepting if people won't weep if your culture ceases to exist, even if they feel sorry for the settler women and children who were raped and scalped along the frontier.





Did I just antganonize you? Forgive me- it was purposeful to illustrate how delicate an issue such as this is- how it can be viewed in two different ways, how some arm-chair quarterback watching CNN can figure out who is right and who is wrong in such a complex issue as the Western expanse of the states during the 1800s.... I hope you'll forgive my antganonism, and be able to reflect how there are folks, just as passionate as you, who are saying the same things but with an opposite perspective.....

rock and a hard place.

That whole M.E. issue is the TRUMP CARD the NWO plays when all their other mindtricks aren't working... Its effective, and so much so, you fine infowarriors haven't passed out an End-the-Fed tshirt, or copied your 106th Amerika: Freedom to Fascism video for dispersal...  You are a slave neo, your prison you cannot smell, taste, or touch- a prison for your mind.

Lastly, Rak shouldn't be banned. Let him/her make the statements he/she makes, nobody takes him/her seriousley. The noobs can figure that out pretty quickly since the co-intel pro, AIPAC and MK Ultra hacks are pretty easy to spot.

Thank you for your back-handed support bro. Your staunch support of my ability to enjoy this great discource is much appreciated- even if a bit slanderous.

[Joseon]

Hi Rak, sorry to be a little hard on you. I backtrack what i said previously.
However, I must rebut some of your points:

I have friends on both sides of the fighting, and wish them the best; however, these groups have chosen their path long ago, and aren't doing much to change it.

You have this attitude that Israelis and Palestinians should duke it out.
First, as an American, we have a right to help Palestine since we supplied Israel with 99% of their weapons. Also my perception is that Isreal is lair of the Zionist movement. Leaders like  Netenyahu, Olmer, Ariel Sharon, are at the thumbs of the Zionist bankers. Why would we have an indifferent attitude in this conflict Rak? your logic is not flowing smoothly

Human beings are dying- and I know this. Do I care? Well, if they've made a decision to enter into combat (like so many of you have eluded to in this forum about going to war against the NWO should it finally come time to water the tree of liberty), then how can I be saddened by the choices you are endeavoring to fulfill?

I'm not quite sure where you are headed. Are you saying that you do not care what happens to Palestinians because both parties wills to fight?
This issue is not as simple as that, as you alluded to.

Militarily though, does it make much sense to allow your enemies to do such to you- or would you go in and squash them when finally you upset them?  -I think of Panama, Somalia, Grenada, Iraq, Afganistan.

Why do you think Panama, Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan all fight against American Imperialism Rak?  Are they the agressors or are we? Didn't you
hear about Torrijos of Panama, Saddam of Iraq? CIA Jackals killed Torrijos because he wouldn't submit to US plans, privatizations of planations to US corporations, and the Panama Canal. Saddam would not denominate in US dollars for oil trading. Military and politics are different. Though militarily it makes sense to squash a bug. Politically, if you torture the bug and the bug fights back, is it right to squash it then?

These folks are disliked throughout the Arab world, from Jordan, to Syria (both of which killed whole villages of Palestinians- several times!), through Lebanon and West to Egypt.

Very dangerous generalization about mid-east countries Rak. Have you ever thought why Palestinians aren't allowed refuge in these countries? Is the US not playing a dictatorial role to Egypt? Once again everything is connected. You, on the other hand, make a blanket generalization based on no fact or logic to support your point? WTF? That was why I thought you were dangerous threat.

I say we stop funding Israel period

At least, something that makes sense for US citizens.

[Joseon]

Rak:

I honestly don't understand all this excitement about these current events. Some of you proclaiming sovereignty within the NWO, and the absolute stance upon the Constitution, are getting all worked up when another sovereign actor on the global stage is doing something you don't like- maybe you should join the UN, and build a global government to control these unobediant actors.

You don't care what happens to Palestine? Have you no heart? Trust me, Israel is not sovereign as you might like to think. The US is not innocent either. Another dangerous statement by you. I can't believe you had the gaul to associate truthers to the UN.

it is a "law of the jungle" world you're supporting in standing against the NWO. If you're in the "Rule of Law" camp,

You don't understand that the Rule of Law by the NWO is Anarchy. The rule of the jungle is Anarchy. That is why the rule of Law and rule of the Jungle are one and the same. The Ones who make the rules become Anarchists. It is another very dangerous statement bordering psy-op maneuvering you used.

Gents- these two groups (Israel & the PLO) are in a contest of sovereignty and liberty. I'm surprise you're getting pulled into this hokus-pokus irrelevent stuff. How come you weren't so manic when Hamas was stringing up Fatah in the streets (their little civil war was more destructive than what the Israelis are doing now).  Why not cry and complain about Sudan- or even better yet- where is this kind of emotional exuberance for the thousands of white children kidnapped in the states each year?

This paragraph is a complete whitewash. It isn't even a contest of sovereignty anymore. Israel owns Palestine land, air and sea. It isn't irrelevant jerk. We sympathize with palestinian fatwahs because Americans would declare fatwahs to any opposing country that invaded our space which made hell of our lives.

The world is already so bad and complicated. Sudan was horrible. But you're getting off topic. It's about Palestine and Israel. You can discuss about Sudan and the starving children in another topic Rak.

If anyone is performing double-think, I believe it is those who would stand against the NWO, and then jump on board to help build furvor in favor of some global government's intervention in the actions of a sovereign state.

Where did we say that the UN should intervene? Where did this become a global governance issue? The fact is that UN has done didly squat just like you like happen to Palestine. A good global government WOULD intervene to help marginalized people. A NWO global government would IGNORE the calls for help. Get that difference straight. Because you are twisting the issue. And quite frankly I think you have an agenda here. The moderators will be watching you closely from now on.

[Freeski]

Joseon, a couple of questions about what you wrote:

"You don't understand that the Rule of Law by the NWO is Anarchy. The rule of the jungle is Anarchy. That is why the rule of Law and rule of the Jungle are one and the same. The Ones who make the rules become Anarchists. It is another very dangerous statement bordering psy-op maneuvering you used."

Isn't anarchy just the absence of control? Hasn't that word been "loaded" with additional meaning?

[Amd304912]

  We wonder if these 5000 have anything to do with the disruptions on rense.com, prisonplanet.com and Prison Planet Forum.

i hope they make a program to alert people of zionist chatrooms and internet polls to post contrary viewpoints.

[HaSof]

Wow, looks like I jumped into this a bit late.

Well folks please disregard the comments and opinions of any women who have not spent copious amounts of time in the presence of arab men, unsupervised by a real man. Those opinions are ignorant, baseless and grounded in NPR nonsense.

Men, I should say the same for you, but many of you seem to be oversensitized to the zionist connection and I do applaud your efforts to educate yourselves.
I will caution against using establishment tactics to try to ban opposition.

All legitimate efforts of those involved in the good fight against the NWO are centered there, and not grounded in individual hatred of Jews, blacks, etc.

Are there zionists involved? You bet, there are also americans involved.

Should we weep then if all americans are wiped off the map? Perhaps not, but joe blow israeli is no more complicit in this than Joe X-box next door with his head in a video game.

This is about corrupt elite, their endgame, and anti Globalism

not race hating.

interesting the Native american angle, his anti gov slant is probably grounded in "hate whitey"

nonetheless I would support his efforts to take back his homeland from a corrupt government and not question his right to exist.

Bad Indian!

[Joseon]

Rak:

They secured their future with blood, just like the Arabs of Palestine are trying to do. In both cases, it is an admirable contest worthy of respect- they have courage and passion. So much, they're willing to give their lives, and not complain and whimper on a forum as a government takes all they have.

An admirable contest worthy of respect? What the hell is wrong with you?
Israel did not secure their future with their own blood. Israel secured their future with the blood of Americans, French, British, Japanes, Koreans, Chinese, Germans , and Russians etc in WWI and WWII. The Balfour Declaration. Once again you are wrong on the issue of how Israel secured its future.

All this "Stop the Israeli" folks should sign on the NWO rosters and become the global tyrannisists their true convictions attest.

I heard this same argument before. totally bogus and very deceiving. We are not like the NWO. Truthers have nothing to do with NWO. The NWO is Israel as Israel is the NWO. Get that straight.

Yes, if the Israelis aren't friendly, or smart enough, or strong enough- then they deserve to get their asses handed to them by a people who are fighting for their liberty. Should the Israelis be chastised because their bloody contest of liberty was successful

When did Israel and Liberty become synonymous? Isreal pillaged Palestine,
enslaved and murdered Palestinians, have draconian laws, and elect in a phony democracy. You call that Liberty Rak? Once again, I must call you out for your dangerous affinity for Israel.

[Freeski]

Wow, looks like I jumped into this a bit late.

Well folks please disregard the comments and opinions of any women who have not spent copious amounts of time in the presence of arab men, unsupervised by a real man. Those opinions are ignorant, baseless and grounded in NPR nonsense.

Men, I should say the same for you, but many of you seem to be oversensitized to the zionist connection and I do applaud your efforts to educate yourselves.
I will caution against using establishment tactics to try to ban opposition.

All legitimate efforts of those involved in the good fight against the NWO are centered there, and not grounded in individual hatred of Jews, blacks, etc.

Are there zionists involved? You bet, there are also americans involved.

Should we weep then if all americans are wiped off the map? Perhaps not, but joe blow israeli is no more complicit in this than Joe X-box next door with his head in a video game.

This is about corrupt elite, their endgame, and anti Globalism

not race hating.

interesting the Native american angle, his anti gov slant is probably grounded in "hate whitey"

nonetheless I would support his efforts to take back his homeland from a corrupt government and not question his right to exist.

Bad Indian!

Pretty good overall but what's this about women? Is this an Arab thing? Heck, I love women!

[Pheonix Renewed]

Wow, looks like I jumped into this a bit late.

Well folks please disregard the comments and opinions of any women who have not spent copious amounts of time in the presence of arab men, unsupervised by a real man. Those opinions are ignorant, baseless and grounded in NPR nonsense.

Because arab men aren't real? 

So arab men should be genocided, is what you're saying, apparently.

Men, I should say the same for you, but many of you seem to be oversensitized to the zionist connection and I do applaud your efforts to educate yourselves.
I will caution against using establishment tactics to try to ban opposition.

All legitimate efforts of those involved in the good fight against the NWO are centered there, and not grounded in individual hatred of Jews, blacks, etc.

Are there zionists involved? You bet, there are also americans involved.

Should we weep then if all americans are wiped off the map? Perhaps not, but joe blow israeli is no more complicit in this than Joe X-box next door with his head in a video game.

This is about corrupt elite, their endgame, and anti Globalism

not race hating.

interesting the Native american angle, his anti gov slant is probably grounded in "hate whitey"

nonetheless I would support his efforts to take back his homeland from a corrupt government and not question his right to exist.

Bad Indian!

HAHAHAHAHA, that's hilarious. You say that Arab men aren't real... and then you grandiously declare that it's not about race hating.

Come back if any logic ever manages to fall into your mind.

No one here, that I've seen, has called for a genocide of the average Israeli citizen. Indeed, all I've seen is people OBJECTING against the genociding BY the Israeli GOVERNMENT.

[Rak HaEmet]

Aaaahhhh! A hearty re-welcoming of your Mr. Joseon! Your way of approaching this is wonderful, and I look forward to a discussion with you already! You're forgiven.

You have this attitude that Israelis and Palestinians should duke it out.

If that's how they choose to deal with it. In the same way it is none of my business where my neighbors decide to put their Christmas tree in their living room- I contend, so it should be with the United states being just an non-interventional with these two actors, the PLO and Israel.

First, as an American, we have a right to help Palestine since we supplied Israel with 99% of their weapons. Also my perception is that Isreal is lair of the Zionist movement. Leaders like  Netenyahu, Olmer, Ariel Sharon, are at the thumbs of the Zionist bankers. Why would we have an indifferent attitude in this conflict Rak? your logic is not flowing smoothly
I'm not quite sure where you are headed. Are you saying that you do not care what happens to Palestinians because both parties wills to fight?

Excellent statement sir.

I concur that those with a vested interest, also have a say. And therein lays my dilema. While I fully understand that the Amerikan people have been raped in order to give money to Israel, they feel that they have a say. My stance is that it was STOLEN MONEY TO BEGIN WITH, and whilst we may be able to contend we have a say- we only do so because Mr. Ed & Elaine Brown are in federal prison. Its a hard case to make that I don't believe we should "spend" (meaning have a say) the stolen money - just TO STOP HAVING IT STOLEN from the citizenry, and leave the bandits who the NWO (because lord knows you and I wouldn't give Israel, Egypt or Jordan any of Ed & Elain Brown's money) has allocated it to.

My stance on this issue is just the same as it is on Mumbai, Pakistan, Iran, Taiwan, Mexico- all the same. A total ceasation of ALL foreign aid and entanglements. Just up and stop.

While I believe its easy to make the contention- hey, but we've already been stolen from, why not have a say about it while our money is flowing. IMHO, to do so is to successfully accept doublethinking. To abhor some act, and then benefit from it. I'm with Dr. Paul on this, and feel that we should CUT TIES with these unions/organization and CEASE THEIR FUNDING IMMEDIATELY.

My care is only in hopes that Israel and Palestine would choose a manner of dealing with one another, in the same way I expect we order our own house first- non-intervention, free trade and dialog. Again, Dr. Paul rightly said, if we do such, there is no reason to attack us- the same goes for Israel and the PLO. There is no US patent on freedom, and the same principles will work anywhere.

If the PLO and Israel choose, as the United States has done virally since WWII, to seek to build an empire, or to force or manipulate other actors- then they too deserve their terrorist attacks. No one is going to feel sorry for the two drunk brutes in the bar hammering away on one another- they both chose to knuckle it out. It's their call, and I'm not of the mind to send my son into the middle of their fray to "keep the peace".

This issue is not as simple as that, as you alluded to.
Why do you think Panama, Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan all fight against American Imperialism Rak?  Are they the agressors or are we? Didn't you hear about Torrijos of Panama, Saddam of Iraq? CIA Jackals killed Torrijos because he wouldn't submit to US plans, privatizations of planations to US corporations, and the Panama Canal. Saddam would not denominate in US dollars for oil trading. Military and politics are different. Though militarily it makes sense to squash a bug. Politically, if you torture the bug and the bug fights back, is it right to squash it then?

HURRAY! You're on to something here! I'm with your 100% Too true. OBVIOUSLY, THE UNITED STATES EMPIRE OF AGRESSION THROUGH THE ENSLAVEMENT OF THE CITIZENRY IS THE TRUE PROBLEM, and not the circumstances to which we both recognize the outcome of the NWO.  I'm a huge fan of those guys for the courage to stand up to the NWO (as you may be surprised to know, am similarly a fan of the courage and passion of the Arab Palestinians). If some hypothetical French Canadian Empire Group was to invade my home town, I'd fight too- but I certainly wouldn't want to see Belgium or Indonesian troops there as "peace keepers"

The tail you've grabbed onto here- it is of the elephant of enslaving people in order to consolodate power. That, IMHO, is the monster we should be running into the street to protest against, not the symptom of its actions.

Very dangerous generalization about mid-east countries Rak. Have you ever thought why Palestinians aren't allowed refuge in these countries? Is the US not playing a dictatorial role to Egypt? Once again everything is connected. You, on the other hand, make a blanket generalization based on no fact or logic to support your point? WTF? That was why I thought you were dangerous threat.
At least, something that makes sense for US citizens.

You're right, that was a dangerous generalization- good of you to call me on it. I would like to retract the word "dislike" to "reject". The whole of the Arab world is very tribal, and these folks- the "Palestinians" aren't of the same genetic similarity as the dominant tribes of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt... They have unsuccessfully assimilated into the local areas of their refuge camps, and maintain their unique identity. (same can be said of the "jews" too)

It's all pulled by the strings of the elite... no different than here. I fully agree. My urging isn't to neglect the markings on the face of Liberty- it is to best affect her return. In the same way we know about the Law That Never Was, or the CAFR, or the Loose Change video- those weren't made by people living half way around the world from us- they were done by folks dedicated to the truth, right here.

The truth, and the ability of those to see and hear it, is best affected within our own grasps.

The proximity to priorities for me implores my attention to the federal reserve, supporting our fallen brothers (I have mailed 2 letters to Mr. Ed Brown in a federal incarceration facility), and empowering those fighting the good fight here and now (like finding an Infowars sponsor, and having a whole gaggle of guys go in on buying water purifiers of something).

Because there is a Jew in this incident- people are getting hyped up. I like that you and I agree the NWO's complicity is the same whether in the M.E., or in the Far East, or in Central America- for you and I it is the same- for many here, they've had their button pushed because of a hatred for one particular race of people, and are missing the mark of where the crosshairs need to be place.

I vote for the forehead of the federal reserve fractional banking system. I think the destruction of the income tax, and the federal reserve will do more help than anything these PP forum police-action advocates are going to be able to muster. Keep over target, and don't get hypnotized...








[/quote]

[Amd304912]

Wow, looks like I jumped into this a bit late.

Well folks please disregard the comments and opinions of any women who have not spent copious amounts of time in the presence of arab men, unsupervised by a real man. Those opinions are ignorant, baseless and grounded in NPR nonsense.

id say the same about zionists and most men???

nonetheless I would support his efforts to take back his homeland from a corrupt government and not question his right to exist.

Bad Indian!

ok the israelis and americans are nothing like palestinians and indians.

but i expect a zionist to expect america to give back native american lands before it greedily lets go of what it keeps stealing.

[HaSof]

you misunderstand me.

women who have been unsupervised in the presence of arab males have been raped and tend to lose their liberal NPR arab loving slant.

if you arent aware of this you havent spent time in the mideast

[Dig]

Can anyone please explain to me how Rak HaEmet is not a total 150% bullshit artist troll?

[Amd304912]

you misunderstand me.

women who have been unsupervised in the presence of arab males have been raped and tend to lose their liberal NPR arab loving slant.

if you arent aware of this you havent spent time in the mideast

nope no misunderstanding, its all a play on words.

arab men are like israeili like americans like men in general.

pull your head from your ass, i have known many jewish women treated like crap from asshole wannabe god zionazis

aside from that i know respectable jewish and arab men.

[Amd304912]

Can anyone please explain to me how Rak HaEmet is not a total 150% bullshit artist troll?

total ian

[HaSof]

the bottom line is this is about corrupt elite worldwide. Not painting whole nationalities with a broad brush.

It is really chickenshit for red blooded american males to bitch about Israelis being the root of all evil.

We have an obligation to resist tyranny at home. Not blame an entire nation across the globe for its involvement.

Show me 100 israelis involved and I will show you 1000 americans. We can agree to fight them. but convince me to hate my people or theirs, I will not. its counter productive