***Israel initiates genocidal ground war into Gaza: 1,300 killed > 6,000 wounded

[sociostudent]

I've tried to wake 'em up but they were like ''okay,so what?''
Bloody hell,I have nothing to say...

No, that's ok...say what's on your mind. Just keep in mind that just because a country's leaders are less-than-savory or they're being run by the NWO at the time, doesn't mean the PEOPLE of said country are anything LIKE that country's leader(s) or puppet dictator (kind of the same concept as someone saying ALL Americans are borderline retarded just because bush was. (i know, bad example, but you know what I mean)

[Truth researcher]

No, that's ok...say what's on your mind. Just keep in mind that just because a country's leaders are less-than-savory or they're being run by the NWO at the time, doesn't mean the PEOPLE of said country are anything LIKE that country's leader(s) or puppet dictator (kind of the same concept as someone saying ALL Americans are borderline retarded just because bush was. (i know, bad example, but you know what I mean)

Yeah,I know what you mean.

[Biggs]

Then f**k us (for our genocidal acts in DOZENS of third-world countries), the Brits ('cause they were in on it too), ; and hell, f**k the Egyptians for blocking the Palestinian's escape from the slaughter...the list could go on forever.

What people don't understand is that the moral relativity has gotten so completely out of control that the developed nations have developed an immoral perspective of "it's ok for one country to do this to another group of people and the other group of people is not allowed to either defend themselves NOR are they allowed any humanitarian or medical assistance" because of a religious belief or group of beliefs, and then call anyone who disagrees with this "antisemitic". It's mentally ill to think that this is ok.

I could not agree more

the most sensible post I have seen in the last couple of pages

[Biggs]

a worthwhile documentary on US media pro-Israeli bias and propoganda, this is how most Americans have their opinions of the conflict shaped for them by the culture creators


Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land: Media & the Israel-Palestine Conflict
(1h 20m)

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-6604775898578139565

Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land provides a striking comparison of U.S. and international media coverage of the crisis in the Middle East, zeroing in on how structural distortions in U.S. coverage have reinforced false perceptions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This pivotal documentary exposes how the foreign policy interests of American political elites--oil, and a need to have a secure military base in the region, among others--work in combination with Israeli public relations strategies to exercise a powerful influence over how news from the region is reported

[Biggs]

on the point regarding hostages below, it is worth noting that the hostage situation in 2006 that started the last major offensive against Gaza (much less bloody than this one)  was of a single soldier, the same soldier is still alive and being held, and was apparently wounded in an Israeli air strike this week,.

Hamas leader killed in air strike
 
Nizar Rayyan is one of the most senior Hamas leaders killed by Israel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7807124.stm

A senior Hamas leader has been killed by an Israeli air strike on his home in the Gaza Strip, Hamas officials say.

Nizar Rayyan, the most senior Hamas figure to be killed since 2004, had urged suicide attacks against Israel.

News of the strike came on the sixth day of Israeli strikes on Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip.

Palestinian medical sources say 391 people have been killed. Israel says it is trying to prevent militants from firing rockets into southern Israel.

Mr Rayyan is the most senior Hamas leader to be killed since the death of Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi in April 2004.

Long reach of Israel

Since its bombing campaign began last Saturday, Israel has attacked Hamas fighters and commanders.

But until now, political leaders have not been killed.

The BBC's Mike Sergeant, in Jerusalem, says this may further strengthen the determination of Hamas to resist the Israeli air assault.

But it will also be seen as an indication that the Israeli military can target key members of the Hamas leadership - the people Israel says are responsible for the rockets being fired towards Israeli towns, our correspondent adds.

Humanitarian warning

On Wednesday, Mr Rayyan had promised that Hamas would hit Israel "even deeper" than it has so far.

On the Hamas-run al-Aqsa television channel, he said Hamas militants were preparing for any Israeli ground incursion, saying "we will kill the enemy and take hostages".

At least four other people, some said to be family members, were also killed in the air raid on Mr Rayyan's home in the Jabaliya refugee camp in the north of the Gaza Strip.

The deaths come as the main UN agency operating in Gaza, Unwra, has resumed food deliveries, but warns of a dire humanitarian situation in the territory.

Israel is refusing entry to Gaza for international journalists.

[Biggs]

some history on how Israel played a majo role in inciting the 6 day war with provocative military actions that have been hidden from official history of the conflict (now there's a big surprise, the real reasons for a war starting being covered up)

Evidence of How Israel was Provoking to Start the 6-Day War

Part 1
(6mins)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F4x6CbkSr3k

Dutch former UN observer describes how he witnessed how Israel provoked their Arab neighbors in the run up to the Six-Day War.

part 2
(6mins)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3vXzOF3VMs

[Nailer]

Israeli's using "directed energy" electromagnetic weapons in Gaza
 Quote

New and unknown deadly weapons used by Israeli forces
'direct energy' weapons, chemical and/or biological agents, in a macabre experiment of future warfare

by Prof. Paola Manduca

Global Research, August 7, 2006

By now there are countless reports, from hospitals, witnesses, armament experts and journalists that strongly suggest that in the present offensive of Israeli forces against Lebanon and Gaza 'new weapons' are being used.

New and strange symptoms are reported amongst the wounded and the dead.

Bodies with dead tissues and no apparent wounds; 'shrunken' corpses; civilians with heavy damage to lower limbs that require amputation, which is nevertheless followed by unstoppable necrosis and death; descriptions of extensive internal wounds with no trace of shrapnel, corpses blackened but not burnt, and others heavily wounded that did not bleed.

Many of these descriptions suggest the possibility that the new weapons used include 'direct energy' weapons, and chemical and/or biological agents, in a sort of macabre experiment of future warfare, where there is no respect for anything: International rules (from the Geneva Convention to the treaties on biological and chemical weapons), refugees, hospitals and the Red Cross, not to mention the people, their future, their children, the environment, which is poisoned through dissemination of Depleted Uranium and toxic substances released after oil and chemical depots are bombed.

Right now, the Lebanese and Palestinian people have many urgent and impellent problems, yet many people believe that these episodes cannot and must not pass ignored. In fact several appeals have been launched to scientists and experts with a view to investigating the issue.

With the intent of responding to such appeals, we have set up a team to investigate the testimonies, the images, and possibly the material evidence that delegations and NGOs will be able to bring from the affected areas. We want to offer support to the health institutions of Lebanon and Palestine, which ask constantly for help and external verification and monitoring, and we are examining all available materials in order to formulate hypotheses which can be verified or disproved.

 
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MAN20060807&articleId=2918

[David Rothscum]

Israeli's using "directed energy" electromagnetic weapons in Gaza
 Quote

New and unknown deadly weapons used by Israeli forces
'direct energy' weapons, chemical and/or biological agents, in a macabre experiment of future warfare

by Prof. Paola Manduca

Global Research, August 7, 2006

By now there are countless reports, from hospitals, witnesses, armament experts and journalists that strongly suggest that in the present offensive of Israeli forces against Lebanon and Gaza 'new weapons' are being used.

New and strange symptoms are reported amongst the wounded and the dead.

Bodies with dead tissues and no apparent wounds; 'shrunken' corpses; civilians with heavy damage to lower limbs that require amputation, which is nevertheless followed by unstoppable necrosis and death; descriptions of extensive internal wounds with no trace of shrapnel, corpses blackened but not burnt, and others heavily wounded that did not bleed.

Many of these descriptions suggest the possibility that the new weapons used include 'direct energy' weapons, and chemical and/or biological agents, in a sort of macabre experiment of future warfare, where there is no respect for anything: International rules (from the Geneva Convention to the treaties on biological and chemical weapons), refugees, hospitals and the Red Cross, not to mention the people, their future, their children, the environment, which is poisoned through dissemination of Depleted Uranium and toxic substances released after oil and chemical depots are bombed.

Right now, the Lebanese and Palestinian people have many urgent and impellent problems, yet many people believe that these episodes cannot and must not pass ignored. In fact several appeals have been launched to scientists and experts with a view to investigating the issue.

With the intent of responding to such appeals, we have set up a team to investigate the testimonies, the images, and possibly the material evidence that delegations and NGOs will be able to bring from the affected areas. We want to offer support to the health institutions of Lebanon and Palestine, which ask constantly for help and external verification and monitoring, and we are examining all available materials in order to formulate hypotheses which can be verified or disproved.

 
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MAN20060807&articleId=2918

In other words, they're using the attack on the biggest prison in the world to test the weapons they'll use in the future global prison.

[David Rothscum]

Meanwhile it's coming out that we're being lied to again about the civilian casualties. Turns out those Hamas militants are actually civilians.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/01/surgical-strike-israel-human-rights


An Israeli human rights group said yesterday it was investigating claims that an apparent surgical strike on a Hamas missile truck in Gaza, which is being publicised by Israel's armed forces on its website, is a case of mistaken targeting that has left eight civilians dead.

Monochrome images of the attack have been repeatedly shown by media around the world after being released by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) to demonstrate both the accuracy of their attacks and that Hamas was trying to move and hide rockets. The footage was also posted on the Israeli military's YouTube site.

However, the Israeli-Palestinian B'Tselem group in Gaza has testimony from the owner of the truck, as well as photographs taken at the scene, which appear to suggest that the vehicle was being used to transport gas welding canisters from a metalworking shop.

The air attack took place at 6pm on Monday in Salah al-Din street in Jabaliya. The grainy thermal imaging footage taken by the Israeli Predator drone that launched the rocket against the truck showed ghostly figures clustered around a vehicle loaded with what the Israeli airforce described as missiles being moved to a safe hiding place by Hamas fighters.

According to testimony supplied by truck owner Abu Imad-Sanur, members of his family had been trying to salvage material from a metal workshop he owns next door to a bombed house. The canisters, he claimed, were being moved to prevent looting.

He named the dead as Muhammad Bassel Madi, 17, Wisam Akram Eid, 14, Imad Ahmad Sanur, 32, Rami Sa'adi Ghabayan, 24, Mahmoud Nabil Ghabayan, 14, Ashraf al-Dabagh, 26, Muhammad Majed Ka'abar, 20, and Ahmad Ibrahim Khila, 15. Imad-Sanur denies any connections with militant organisations in the Gaza Strip that have been blamed for targeting Israeli towns with rockets.

The pictures released by B'Tselem yesterday - which it says were taken at the site - show the burnt-out wreckage of a truck that appears to have been loaded with scrap metal and gas welding tanks, with the gas valves still attached. An undamaged tank, apparently thrown out of the vehicle by the explosion, is identical in shape to the burned ones.

"I own a metalworks near the Palestinian Red Cross,' said Imad-Sanur in his testimony. "On Monday I was told a metalworking shop had been blown up, so I collected my sons to go there. When we arrived we saw that the house next door [understood to belong to a Hamas official] had been completely destroyed. There was a 10-metre-deep crater. Some of the walls had caved in into my shop.

"I was afraid people would steal my stuff and decided to move it."

It was while his son Imad was directing the loading of the second truckload that it was hit while Imad-Sanur - who suffers from asthma - was standing across the road to avoid the dust. "Friends and neighbours had come to help. Imad was standing on the truck. Suddenly I saw a huge flash and heard a booming sound. I started running and saw bodies everywhere. One of them was Imad. That was when I fainted."

Imad-Sanur told the Guardian yesterday: "I'm not satisfied with what's going on. Please, we want peace. Who wants his children to die? Who hates peace? The Israeli account is absolutely wrong. The pickup is still there and the oxygen cylinder is still next to it. Anyone can come and look at it."

Sarit Michaeli, a spokeswoman for B'Tselem, said that while her organisation had not been able to verify Imad-Sanur's claims that he was not involved with militants in Gaza, his story that he was moving welding equipment seemed believable. "What this emphasises is that this incident needs to be investigated by the IDF, lessons learned and if necessary people retrained. It is impossible to avoid civilian casualties, but in this case it is clear that an investigation is required."

[Boubear]

Israeli's using "directed energy" electromagnetic weapons in Gaza
 Quote

New and unknown deadly weapons used by Israeli forces
'direct energy' weapons, chemical and/or biological agents, in a macabre experiment of future warfare

by Prof. Paola Manduca

Global Research, August 7, 2006

By now there are countless reports, from hospitals, witnesses, armament experts and journalists that strongly suggest that in the present offensive of Israeli forces against Lebanon and Gaza 'new weapons' are being used.

New and strange symptoms are reported amongst the wounded and the dead.

Bodies with dead tissues and no apparent wounds; 'shrunken' corpses; civilians with heavy damage to lower limbs that require amputation, which is nevertheless followed by unstoppable necrosis and death; descriptions of extensive internal wounds with no trace of shrapnel, corpses blackened but not burnt, and others heavily wounded that did not bleed.

Many of these descriptions suggest the possibility that the new weapons used include 'direct energy' weapons, and chemical and/or biological agents, in a sort of macabre experiment of future warfare, where there is no respect for anything: International rules (from the Geneva Convention to the treaties on biological and chemical weapons), refugees, hospitals and the Red Cross, not to mention the people, their future, their children, the environment, which is poisoned through dissemination of Depleted Uranium and toxic substances released after oil and chemical depots are bombed.

Right now, the Lebanese and Palestinian people have many urgent and impellent problems, yet many people believe that these episodes cannot and must not pass ignored. In fact several appeals have been launched to scientists and experts with a view to investigating the issue.

With the intent of responding to such appeals, we have set up a team to investigate the testimonies, the images, and possibly the material evidence that delegations and NGOs will be able to bring from the affected areas. We want to offer support to the health institutions of Lebanon and Palestine, which ask constantly for help and external verification and monitoring, and we are examining all available materials in order to formulate hypotheses which can be verified or disproved.

 
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MAN20060807&articleId=2918

That article is from 2006, is there any evidence that they are using this now against Gaza?

[larsonstdoc]

Meanwhile it's coming out that we're being lied to again about the civilian casualties. Turns out those Hamas militants are actually civilians.

 CNN yesterday (12-31-08) was making a big deal out of how the IDF was killing mostly Hamas militants, which at the time I thought was BS.  The reason why is that the rocket attacks by the IDF were not surgical attacks but they  mostly indiscriminate.  With over half of the population of Gaza under 18 years of age I knew their would be a lot of children killed!!  Israeli does not allow CNN in Gaza not to protect the reporters, but to protect the "official IDF story".

[larsonstdoc]

That article is from 2006, is there any evidence that they are using this now against Gaza?

  That would be hard to determine because the electricity has been shut of in Gaza.  A true EMP attack would render most vehicles w/o a carburetor non-working.  A very interesting article though, Boubear.  If the IDF was using these types of weapons they wouldn't want it reported, hence the banning of CNN in Gaza.

[Nailer]

this is just plain outright murder!!!!!


A schoolgirl riddled with bullets. And no one is to blame



Questions remain after Israeli unit commander is cleared of Palestinian pupil's death




The undisputed facts are these: it was broad daylight, 13-year-old Iman al-Hams was wearing her school uniform, and when she walked into the Israeli army's "forbidden zone" at the bottom of her street she was carrying her satchel.

A few minutes later the short, slight child was pumped with bullets. Doctors counted at least 17 wounds and said much of her head was destroyed.

Palestinian witnesses described the shooting as cold-blooded. They say soldiers could not have failed to see they were firing at a child, and she was killed as she already lay wounded and helpless.

The Shaked battalion, were outraged at what they saw as a cover-up.

One told Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper that a soldier in the watchtower had told the company commander that he was about to shoot a child:

"Don't shoot, it's a little girl".

"The company commander approached her, shot two bullets into her, walked back towards the force, turned back to her, switched his weapon to automatic and emptied his entire magazine into her. We were in shock. We couldn't believe what he was doing. Our hearts ached for her. Just a girl of 13," a soldier told the newspaper.

(cont...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oct/21/schoolsworldwide.israel

[eddy64]

  That would be hard to determine because the electricity has been shut of in Gaza.  A true EMP attack would render most vehicles w/o a carburetor non-working.  A very interesting article though, Boubear.  If the IDF was using these types of weapons they wouldn't want it reported, hence the banning of CNN in Gaza.

well they could be using directed microwave energy for a start to kill people, that wouldnt affect the electricty.

[Revolt426]

you know how these things work? Israel gets a green light to attack Gaza from the Western Oligarchs then the Western Oligarchs run negative ads against Israel to make them look like monsters. Not to say that Israeli's defense department are not monsters, but there are other players involved. The current puppets that are running Israel gained political points for this exchange too, which would prevent Netenyahu from getting in, which oddly enough is a good thing because his party is Fascist and would probably attack one of numerous countries.

Blame does not lie soley with Israel, if it did a few things would not have happened:
1) Youtube pulled Israeli Strike Propaganda designed to rationalize the attack and Haaretz had to attack youtube publicly for them to put it back up.

2) Egypt is siding with Israel and blocking their own Arabic brothers from crossing the boarder into Egypt.

3) British Press is a giveaway, they are running negative ads now. They want Israel to look bad.

[Irobot]

Targeting Hamas or Civilians? - B'Tselem(Israeli human rights group) QUESTIONS ISRAEL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg38yMagdCE


recent videos
http://snardfarker.ning.com/profiles/blogs/gaza-israel-attack-videos
.

[larsonstdoc]

http://voanews.com/english/2009-01-01-voa25.cfm


Working on a peace treaty while attacking targets?

Israeli FM: Israel Working Toward Peace Treaty
By VOA News
01 January 2009

Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni addresses reporters following her meeting with French President Nicolas Sarkozy at Elysee Palace in Paris, 01 Jan 2009
Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Israel is working toward a peace treaty while it is attacking targets of the Palestinian militant group Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

Livni spoke to reporters after holding talks Thursday in Paris with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

She said the military offensive is aimed at stopping Palestinian rocket attacks and giving Israelis the opportunity to live in quiet.

Earlier this week, Israel rejected a 48-hour truce proposed by France.

Meanwhile, Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek said the European Union must take the initiative to seek a cease-fire in the Gaza Strip, noting the United States cannot be counted on at this time. He made his remarks as the Czech Republic took over the EU's rotating presidency today.

Mr. Topolanek said he is organizing a diplomatic mission to the Middle East that will look for a solution to the conflict between Israel and Hamas.

The Czech news agency said the mission will include EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, the bloc's external relations commissioner, Benita Ferrero-Waldner, and the foreign ministers from the Czech Republic, France and Sweden.

The mission will consist of stops in Israel, the West Bank, Egypt and Jordan, and is expected to coincide with a trip by Mr. Sarkozy Monday to Israel and the West Bank. The French president is pushing hard for an end to the fighting in the Gaza Strip.

In the Vatican Thursday, Pope Benedict called for an end to the violence in Gaza. He also said he hopes Israelis and Palestinians have the opportunity to live in peace.

[Irobot]

They are getting as many strikes in, just in case the world wakes up
and demands it stop. God Bless them all.

When will the US start shelling and bombing US neighborhoods?
Can not be far off.

[Revolt426]

We're lucky Netenyahu isn't running things, you think this is bad?.. Netenyahu would probably hit Iran and destroy all hopes of peace agreements with Syria

[Irobot]

Pro-Palestinian protesters at Obama's Hawaii house
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=96171&newsChannel=domesticNews

KAILUA, Hawaii (Reuters) - A small group of placard-waving pro-Palestinian demonstrators gathered near U.S. President-elect Barack Obama's vacation retreat in Hawaii on Tuesday to protest against the Israeli airstrikes in Gaza.

Obama has made no public comment on the strikes, which Israel launched on Saturday. Aides have repeatedly said he is monitoring the situation and continues to receive intelligence briefings but that there is only one U.S. president at a time.

Some critics, however, say Obama did choose to speak out after the attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai in November in which gunmen killed nearly 180 people, condemning them as acts of terrorism.

Obama, who takes office on January 20 from outgoing Republican President George W. Bush, has also spoken out on economic issues facing the United States.

"He is talking about how many jobs he is going to create but he is refusing to speak about this," said one of the protesters, Carolyn Hadfield, 66.

Hadfield was one of eight protesters standing with placards reading "No U.S. support for Israel" and "Gazans need food and medicine, not war" near Obama's rented vacation home in Kailua, an upmarket suburb on the Hawaiian island of Oahu, where Obama is in the second week of a vacation with his family.

Obama had not left the compound on Tuesday morning and did not see the protest.

Obama has in the past called Israel one of the United States' greatest allies and has vowed to ensure the security of the Jewish state.

He has also said he would make a sustained push to achieve the goal of two states -- a Jewish state in Israel and a Palestinian state.

Israel on Tuesday pressed on with air strikes in Gaza that it says are in response to rocket fire by Hamas militants deep inside the Jewish state. Medical officials put Palestinian casualties at 383 dead and more than 800 wounded.

The Bush administration has so far backed Israel's actions in Gaza and demanded the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas stop firing rockets into Israel and agree to a lasting ceasefire.

"We are very upset with what is going in Palestine. There is a very great need for change in U.S. foreign policy toward Israel and Palestine. We need to stop giving Israel a blank check," said another protester, Margaret Brown, 66.

The protesters were rebuffed when they tried to hand a letter signed by dozens of U.S. activist groups to a Secret Service agent guarding the access road to Obama's beachfront compound.

(Reporting by Ross Colvin; Editing by Cynthia Osterman)

[Rak HaEmet]

boltons a war monger...from reading your posts rack you fall into that category,...If the US was to attack Iran, it would open up WW3, If they are that stupid?..we will see..

You, like many others here, have misunderstood my postings bro. I'm not a war monger- I'm pro national-sovereignty... this does include the right of a nation to declare war. If you've seen my posts, then you're fully aware that I'm opposed to police actions, supranational military domination (ie- the NWO Army)

Bolton is a schmuck scum-bag, like Bush, like Rockefeller, Rothchild, Zbi... Please, because I recognize the sovereign right of a nation to use force to resist the NWO, don't throw me in with proponents of it.

In one hand, I wholly agree with posters here, that Gazans have the unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That they have the moral and Creator given right to use force (war) to secure their liberty, and even exercise their "duty" to throw off such government over them when it become despotic to its ends...

I have voiced support for all- the same rights I would claim for myself.

Because I don't believe in a NWO solution, and voiced opposition to those here, in this forum, calling for some supranational "peace keeping force"... I have been labeled a troll, a war monger now...

I have insulted posters here, because I honestly believe they've successfully exercised "doublethink". Some here both believe that "freedom isn't free" and the concept of the Tree of Liberty, and then alternatively wish to deny a people the same ability to secure their own freedom... instead, they would seek to supplant the sovereign right of the Palestinian people to "throw of such government", and instead wish to supplant their rightful cause for the sake of some international governing body.

For students of the Palestinian cause, they're fully aware that these people, of all the people in the entire world, are living directly under some UN patronage... They're fighting to secure their own land, and if ever successful throwing Israel's hand from their neck, they'll only realize that it is the whole of the UN body now makes a claim (much like those here who say because the US has paid and given to Israel, that they have a say) to their goings on... reminds me of the scene at the end of Braveheart, when the Scots chose to fight for their freedom instead of being "granted" it by the Angles....

I know there are a few who definitely agree with me, that a nation's sovereignty is more important than a supranational force- but some here, are duplicitous, and are speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

If by honoring, and appreciating the blood spilt (on both sides) by the Revolutionary War soldiers, the soldiers of the War Between the States, and the contest to which the Palestinians are enduring such torture, then I guess you definitely can call me a warmonger (although your definition, and mine, are two vastly different understandings).

Those who would profess pacifism deserve neither liberty nor security, and may the chains rest lightly upon their necks...

[Dig]

You, like many others here, have misunderstood my postings bro. I'm not a war monger- I'm pro national-sovereignty... this does include the right of a nation to declare war. If you've seen my posts, then you're fully aware that I'm opposed to police actions, supranational military domination (ie- the NWO Army)

Bolton is a schmuck scum-bag, like Bush, like Rockefeller, Rothchild, Zbi... Please, because I recognize the sovereign right of a nation to use force to resist the NWO, don't throw me in with proponents of it.

In one hand, I wholly agree with posters here, that Gazans have the unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That they have the moral and Creator given right to use force (war) to secure their liberty, and even exercise their "duty" to throw off such government over them when it become despotic to its ends...

I have voiced support for all- the same rights I would claim for myself.

Because I don't believe in a NWO solution, and voiced opposition to those here, in this forum, calling for some supranational "peace keeping force"... I have been labeled a troll, a war monger now...

I have insulted posters here, because I honestly believe they've successfully exercised "doublethink". Some here both believe that "freedom isn't free" and the concept of the Tree of Liberty, and then alternatively wish to deny a people the same ability to secure their own freedom... instead, they would seek to supplant the sovereign right of the Palestinian people to "throw of such government", and instead wish to supplant their rightful cause for the sake of some international governing body.

For students of the Palestinian cause, they're fully aware that these people, of all the people in the entire world, are living directly under some UN patronage... They're fighting to secure their own land, and if ever successful throwing Israel's hand from their neck, they'll only realize that it is the whole of the UN body now makes a claim (much like those here who say because the US has paid and given to Israel, that they have a say) to their goings on... reminds me of the scene at the end of Braveheart, when the Scots chose to fight for their freedom instead of being "granted" it by the Angles....

I know there are a few who definitely agree with me, that a nation's sovereignty is more important than a supranational force- but some here, are duplicitous, and are speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

If by honoring, and appreciating the blood spilt (on both sides) by the Revolutionary War soldiers, the soldiers of the War Between the States, and the contest to which the Palestinians are enduring such torture, then I guess you definitely can call me a warmonger (although your definition, and mine, are two vastly different understandings).

Those who would profess pacifism deserve neither liberty nor security, and may the chains rest lightly upon their necks...

your posts make my head hurt

[Doctor No NWO]

Bush and Olmert are 'on the same page'
Thursday, January 01, 2009 » 12:25pm
Live News:  
 
The White House is backing Israel's refusal to cease its assault on Gaza.

The White House is backing Israel's refusal to cease its assault on Gaza, saying President George Bush and Israeli PM Ehud Olmert were on the same page.

The Islamist movement Hamas must agree to stop firing rockets into Israel now and in the future before any potential ceasefire to the Gaza violence that began on Saturday and has so far left nearly 400 Palestinians dead, White House deputy press secretary Gordon Johndroe said on Wednesday.

'I think President Bush thinks that Hamas needs to stop firing rockets, and that is what will be the first steps in a ceasefire,' Johndroe told reporters at Bush's Crawford, Texas ranch, adding that Hamas should also stop smuggling weapons to show 'they don't intend to continue to target Israel'.

'So I think they're certainly on the same page on that,' Johndroe said of Bush and Olmert following the leaders' earlier phone call on the Gaza hostilities and the humanitarian situation in the territory.

Johndroe repeated that for the United States any ceasefire would have to be a 'durable' one, in contrast to the previous six-month agreement that expired on December 19.

Bush has not spoken publicly about the Israeli offensive, now in its fifth day, launched in response to a barrage of rocket attacks from the Palestinian enclave controlled by Hamas since June 2007.

Olmert has so far rebuked mounting international calls to end the violence. He told the country's security cabinet on Wednesday that conditions were not yet ripe to halt the bombardment.

The operation has raised concern about the humanitarian situation in Gaza, a small, aid-dependent territory of 1.5 million people that has been crippled by Israel's blockade.

'President Bush got an assurance from Prime Minister Olmert that Israel is, as they have said they are doing, only targeting Hamas and that terrorist organisation ... and that they are working to minimise any civilian casualties,' said Johndroe, adding that 'the onus is on Hamas.'

Johndroe would not indicate whether Bush and Olmert had discussed a possible Israeli ground offensive, after Israel massed tanks on the Gaza border and authorised calling up 9,000 reservists for what it named its 'all-out war' on Hamas.

But Johndroe said such an offensive would be 'just part and parcel' of the anti-Hamas operation.

Hamas vowed to fight 'until the last breath' if Israel makes good on threats for a ground invasion. The Israeli offensive has reduced much of Hamas's administrative infrastructure to rubble but has failed to stop rocket fire into Israel.

Since Saturday, militants have fired more than 250 rockets and mortar rounds at Israel, killing three civilians and one soldier and wounding several dozen people.

'The effort to bring about a ceasefire continues,' State Department spokesman Gordon Duguid told reporters when asked if Washington was disappointed that efforts to broker a 48-hour truce failed to materialise.

He said US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has spoken with her Jordanian, Egyptian, United Arab Emirates and British counterparts. She has also been in touch with Olmert, King Abdullah II of Jordan and EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana.

'The goal of her phone calls, the goal of the president's phone calls, the diplomacy the administration has engaged in, is to work with other countries to pressure Hamas, make them understand that a lasting, durable and respected ceasefire is the best thing for their own - for the people of Gaza,' Johndroe said.

Reacting to the deepening crisis and deteriorating humanitarian conditions, the Quartet on Middle East peace - the United States, European Union, Russian and the United Nations - and foreign ministers from Arab League nations have called for an immediate ceasefire.

The UN Security Council was to meet late on Wednesday for closed-door consultations on Gaza after Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas appealed for a resolution imposing a ceasefire. He was set to meet on Monday with the Council to discuss the situation.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy will travel to Egypt, Israel and the West Bank on Monday, his office announced. In a New Year's message, Sarkozy said he will visit the Middle East in a bid to 'find a roadmap toward peace'.


What PEACE???... Road map to Hell is the correct terminology I beleive...

[Irobot]

NEW WEAPONS SPLITTING PEOPLE IN HALF/ MAJOR BURNS
ABOUT 2 MINS IN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDjthFt6EZg


58 VIDEOS   Gaza Israel Play list
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=96614713B042CB56

PLAY ALL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaA-WBRNkhc&feature=PlayList&p=96614713B042CB56&index=0&playnext=1
.

[Revolt426]

Shrapnel can rip a person in half easily, doesn't mean its new technology.

[Biggs]

@Rak Haemut

To state as you did that pacifists do not deserve either freedom or security is just assinine, they richly deserve both for having the decency to take a position whereby they refuse to hurt other human beings. It may not always be the msot pragmatic position however it is certainly an honourable one.

[Revolt426]

LaRouche sees what this is, it's a way to preserve the current leadership in Israel and to promote Ehud Barak as a hero. The alternative leadership is actually worse, being Netenyahu who would like to bomb every Arab country.

http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2009/01/01/israel-ground-assault-would-be-disaster.html


Israel Ground Assault Would Be A Disaster

Increase  DecreaseJanuary 1, 2009 (LPAC)-- No fewer than 50 Israeli and Arab peace groups will hold a symbolic peace demonstration near the Gaza Strip on Friday, Jan. 2. The demonstration will include leading personalities, the names of whom will not be released until Jan. 2, an Israeli source told EIR today.

The source, who now lives within the range of the Grad missiles that Hamas has been firing from Gaza, and is one of the organizers of the event, also told EIRthat they will be demanding a ceasefire.

This same source, who is a former paratrooper, commented that an Israeli ground assault into Gaza would be a disaster for three reasons. First, despite the fact that the Israeli army has recovered from the Lebanon war, Gaza's terrain now in the rainy season, means that both tanks and troops would be stuck in the mud. There would be high casualties on both sides. Israel would "win," but then what?

Second, after paying a heavy price, Israel would have to leave and negotiate a truce with Hamas at the end of the day. And third, Israel could be condemned officially for war crimes.

Politically, this source reported that the biggest "benefactor" is Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak. He is portraying himself in the media as the "general," not the "politician." The source, who dislikes Barak, nonetheless admitted that "he knows how to play the game." The Labor Party might increase its number of mandates, he added, but will not win the election.

Significantly, Ha'aretz reported today that the Likud mayor of Netivot, which has been struck by rockets, has called for talks with Hamas. Mayor Yehiel Zohar, who is a very important regional leader, told Ha'aretz that, "The fact that we have so far not held talks with Hamas is a mistake. In order to achieve the calm we are hoping for, we will have to speak to Hamas this time around, too. It's too bad they didn't aspire enough to an agreement, because ultimately we'll be talking only to Hamas." He also was opposed to setting up anti-missile systems. They are expensive and unnecessary, he explained, and the problem can be solved by talking to Hamas.

In contrast, madman Bibi Netanyahu is quoted raving, "There is a goal, and the goal is to remove this Iranian-sponsored Hamas terrorist base, which is right now hitting the suburbs of Tel Aviv. Ultimately we have no other choice."

[Rak HaEmet]

@Rak Haemut

To state as you did that pacifists do not deserve either freedom or security is just assinine, they richly deserve both for having the decency to take a position whereby they refuse to hurt other human beings. It may not always be the msot pragmatic position however it is certainly an honourable one.

You know Biggs, I'm going to give you some credit- at the basis, I agree that it doesn't need to involve hurting other human beings; however, you do understand it would be at a great cost of life and limb to such a cause (as such Gandi did in India- lining up masses of folks to get beat in the head with a bat). So, I do concede your point made.

For myself, I am not in such a camp as to retrain from forceful response when my wife is raped, when my children are enslaved, and my neighbors organize to bring doom on some group. I think of unsuccessful non-violent attempts, and think of the "Jewish Holocaust"... I do believe in the concepts embodied in the 2nd Amendment, as do Hamas as well as Israel.

Unfortunately, from my experience, while pacifists choose to refuse forceful action, they often perform what I believe is a duplicitous and cowardly act- they would call a policeman to stop the rape of their wife, and therein become purveyors of violence through someone else.

My stance on this israeli/PLO issue is strongly based on the idea that no external policeman is needed, or able to intervene (well, without becoming a supporter of some globalist initiative/body/army).

If you're going to advocate that Hamas disarm (and/or Israel for that matter), I'm cool with you saying so- I just am very wary of the end-result of your advocacy, and hope you're aware of the minefield of NWO propaganda and pressures you're getting into.

[Biggs]

two points to reply to your post,

I am not denying you or anyone else your right to do as you feel is best, merely pointing out the flaws in your dislike of pacifists

second, I am a lot more interested in Israel stopping bombing the crap out of, and beseiging, the people of Gaza,  than I am interested in Hamas disarming, they have a right to arm themselves for self defence, but do not have a reasonable right to suicide bomb civilian targets (although military ones is fine I guess)

however, it is a case of proportion, the IAF/IDF and the scum who run Israel are the greater criminals and the more prolific murderers.

[241727]

Israel Ground Assault Would Be A Disaster


This same source, who is a former paratrooper, commented that an Israeli ground assault into Gaza would be a disaster for three reasons. First, despite the fact that the Israeli army has recovered from the Lebanon war, Gaza's terrain now in the rainy season, means that both tanks and troops would be stuck in the mud. There would be high casualties on both sides. Israel would "win," but then what?

Second, after paying a heavy price, Israel would have to leave and negotiate a truce with Hamas at the end of the day. And third, Israel could be condemned officially for war crimes.

Politically, this source reported that the biggest "benefactor" is Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak. He is portraying himself in the media as the "general," not the "politician." The source, who dislikes Barak, nonetheless admitted that "he knows how to play the game." The Labor Party might increase its number of mandates, he added, but will not win the election.

IF israel decided to go into the Gazza Strip it could only make sense if intended as Final Solution

The only aim would be to cause massive civilian casulties leading to a mass exodus from the Gazza Strip into Egypt (whose border is closed so far as I know).

The IDF could only clear the area by using Gas, Flamethrowers, and other totaly inhumane weapons. The defenders would have an awfull lot of hardcover in the rubble, sewers, basements, and tunnels. The IDF could achieve victory, but only by using extermination weapons and it can not really use tanks to much effect in a built up area.

imho

[Revolt426]

I dont know really, Haaretz reported Barak is looking for a very quick ground invasion to wipe out certain groups then to pull out. Not that it would work for the above reasons, but that is what Israel's major papers are saying.

[Freeski]

Could someone in the know please explain this:

Why don't any of the Arab/Middle East countries ever come to help the Palestinians in these battles and wars?

[Biggs]

Israel gearing up for ground offensive?

Israel to let foreigners leave Gaza on Friday
01 Jan 2009 20:41:08 GMT
Source: Reuters
(Recasts with Israeli confirmation)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1107404.htm

GAZA, Jan 1 (Reuters) - Israel will allow 443 foreigners living in the Gaza Strip to leave on Friday, a defence official said on Thursday as Israeli forces attacked the Hamas-controlled territory for a sixth day.

Many of the resident foreigners are spouses of Gaza Palestinians and their children, and by enabling their departure through its border Israel could be signalling preparations for an escalation in the fighting.

Peter Lerner, an Israeli military liaison, said the foreigners include U.S., Russian, Moldovan, Ukrainian, Turkish and Norwegian passport-holders.

Erez border crossing would be open to them on Friday morning, Lerner said, adding, "From experience we know that not all foreigners leave in such situations.

[Revolt426]

Could someone in the know please explain this:

Why don't any of the Arab/Middle East countries ever come to help the Palestinians in these battles and wars?

Arabs often dislike eachother, after years of British imperialism and divide and conquer strategies they are at each others throats. I am assuming you are referring to Egypt cutting supply lines out and slamming Hamas?

Its all about consiquence, even if all the arab countries helped the Palastinians it would just escalate and expand the war, so they keep it in little Gaza. Israel is also the only country in that area with Nuclear weapons.

[241727]

Could someone in the know please explain this:

Why don't any of the Arab/Middle East countries ever come to help the Palestinians in these battles and wars?

They dont let the Palestinians settle in there countries and use the "refuge camps" as a pawn to attack israel with. Its not just the zionists that hate palestinians and are cruel and inhuman... complex problem.

[Dig]

Could someone in the know please explain this:

Why don't any of the Arab/Middle East countries ever come to help the Palestinians in these battles and wars?

My theory is that the zionists, the mulsim brotherhood, and the jesuit order are all just sub-groups to the New World Order.  Thus, they conspire together to blame only one sub group.

In the 1920's it was the jews.

In the 1940s it was the Nazis.

In the 1950's it was the communists

In the 1970s - 2001 it was the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now it seems to be going to the Zionists.

Same bullshit, different assholes.

[Freeski]

My theory is that the zionists, the mulsim brotherhood, and the jesuit order are all just sub-groups to the New World Order.  Thus, they conspire together to blame only one sub group.

In the 1920's it was the jews.

In the 1940s it was the Nazis.

In the 1950's it was the communists

In the 1970s - 2001 it was the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now it seems to be going to the Zionists.

Same bullshit, different assholes.

Yeah, it's just labels, just brands. I think that might be right.

[Revolt426]

My theory is that the zionists, the mulsim brotherhood, and the jesuit order are all just sub-groups to the New World Order.  Thus, they conspire together to blame only one sub group.

In the 1920's it was the jews.

In the 1940s it was the Nazis.

In the 1950's it was the communists

In the 1970s - 2001 it was the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now it seems to be going to the Zionists.

Same bullshit, different assholes.

Dont mention Christianity you may get your head torn off by someone here  . The NWO uses all Religion as a tool, and the Holy Books have been re-written time and time again, no one knows who wrote them, yet they are the absolute un-deniable truth.

[Irobot]

Hamas warns Israel against ground raid
Thu, 01 Jan 2009 10:52:22 GMT
Israeli tanks
The Islamic Hamas movement says Israeli forces would be welcomed with 'surprises' should they launch a ground incursion into the Gaza Strip.

"Israel will embark on a veritable adventure if it decides to invade Gaza," Hamas official Mushir al-Masri said on Thursday.

"We have prepared surprises for them", he said adding that his movement would fight "until the last breath" in case of a ground invasion.

Meanwhile, in a defiant televised speech, Hamas Prime Minister in Gaza Ismail Haniya promised that the movement will win the fight against Israel.

"We tell the Palestinian people in Gaza and everywhere that you will win, inevitably. Victory is near, God willing, and it is closer than people think," he said.

The Hams warnings come as Israeli tanks and troops have massed along the besieged Palestinian territory preparing for a possible ground operation.

This is while media reports say Hamas has extended the reach of its rocket attacks on the Israeli towns.

On Thursday, Hamas fighters fired a rocket deep into Israeli air base in Negev desert. The movement said the attack was the first of its kind.

Hamas's armed wing the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades said in a statement that they had fired a Grad-type rocket at the Hatzerim air force base west of the city Beersheva, some 40 km (24 miles) from the Gaza border.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=80125&sectionid=351020202

[Freeski]

Dont mention Christianity you may get your head torn off by someone here  . The NWO uses all Religion as a tool, and the Holy Books have been re-written time and time again, no one knows who wrote them, yet they are the absolute un-deniable truth.

That's my position! The lies, corruption, manipulation, plaigarism and general sleaze is too widespread to ignore. Say in 1,000 years some archaeologists find a book I wrote called "The World Constitution", they'd think it really was the world's constitution until new discoveries were made.