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Author Topic: 2 Gun Control HRs to keep an eye on  (Read 3164 times)
OldSchool
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« on: November 29, 2008, 02:38:35 PM »


Wanted to post a few interesting items I found while browsing the web. I'm sure you will agree that there are dark forces at work here.
=====================================================================

HR 73 - Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 2007

HR 73 IH
110th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 73
To protect the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement of such right.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
January 4, 2007
Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL
To protect the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement of such right.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 2007'.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
The Congress finds the following:
(1) Police cannot protect, and are not legally liable for failing to protect, individual citizens, as evidenced by the following:
(A) The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect individuals, only the public in general. For example, in Warren v. District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981), the court stated: `[C]ourts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community.'.
(B) Former Florida Attorney General Jim Smith told Florida legislators that police responded to only 200,000 of 700,000 calls for help to Dade County authorities.
(C) The United States Department of Justice found that, in 1989, there were 168,881 crimes of violence for which police had not responded within 1 hour.
(2) Citizens frequently must use firearms to defend themselves, as evidenced by the following:
(A) Every year, more than 2,400,000 people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals--or more than 6,500 people a day. This means that, each year, firearms are used 60 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.
(B) Of the 2,400,000 self-defense cases, more than 192,000 are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.
(C) Of the 2,400,000 times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, 92 percent merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8 percent of the time, does a citizen kill or wound his or her attacker.
(3) Law-abiding citizens, seeking only to provide for their families' defense, are routinely prosecuted for brandishing or using a firearm in self-defense. For example:
(A) In 1986, Don Bennett of Oak Park, Illinois, was shot at by 2 men who had just stolen $1,200 in cash and jewelry from his suburban Chicago service station. The police arrested Bennett for violating Oak Park's handgun ban. The police never caught the actual criminals.
(B) Ronald Biggs, a resident of Goldsboro, North Carolina, was arrested for shooting an intruder in 1990. Four men broke into Biggs' residence one night, ransacked the home and then assaulted him with a baseball bat. When Biggs attempted to escape through the back door, the group chased him and Biggs turned and shot one of the assailants in the stomach. Biggs was arrested and charged with assault with a deadly weapon--a felony. His assailants were charged with misdemeanors.
(C) Don Campbell of Port Huron, Michigan, was arrested, jailed, and criminally charged after he shot a criminal assailant in 1991. The thief had broken into Campbell's store and attacked him. The prosecutor plea-bargained with the assailant and planned to use him to testify against Campbell for felonious use of a firearm. Only after intense community pressure did the prosecutor finally drop the charges.
(4) The courts have granted immunity from prosecution to police officers who use firearms in the line of duty. Similarly, law-abiding citizens who use firearms to protect themselves, their families, and their homes against violent felons should not be subject to lawsuits by the violent felons who sought to victimize them.
SEC. 3. RIGHT TO OBTAIN FIREARMS FOR SECURITY, AND TO USE FIREARMS IN DEFENSE OF SELF, FAMILY, OR HOME; ENFORCEMENT.
(a) Reaffirmation of Right- A person not prohibited from receiving a firearm by Section 922(g) of title 18, United States Code, shall have the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms--
(1) in defense of self or family against a reasonably perceived threat of imminent and unlawful infliction of serious bodily injury;
(2) in defense of self or family in the course of the commission by another person of a violent felony against the person or a member of the person's family; and
(3) in defense of the person's home in the course of the commission of a felony by another person.
(b) Firearm Defined- As used in subsection (a), the term `firearm' means--
(1) a shotgun (as defined in section 921(a)(5) of title 18, United States Code);
(2) a rifle (as defined in section 921(a)(7) of title 18, United States Code); or
(3) a handgun (as defined in section 10 of Public Law 99-408).
(c) Enforcement of Right-
(1) IN GENERAL- A person whose right under subsection (a) is violated in any manner may bring an action in any United States district court against the United States, any State, or any person for damages, injunctive relief, and such other relief as the court deems appropriate.
(2) AUTHORITY TO AWARD A REASONABLE ATTORNEY'S FEE- In an action brought under paragraph (1), the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing plaintiff a reasonable attorney's fee as part of the costs.
(3) STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS- An action may not be brought under paragraph (1) after the 5-year period that begins with the date the violation described in paragraph (1) is discovered.

==============================================================================
List of Representatives backing the bill:
Cosponsors [as of 2008-11-06]
Rep. Jeff Miller [R-FL]
Rep. Lynn Westmoreland [R-GA]
Rep. Shelley Capito [R-WV]
Rep. Peter Sessions [R-TX]
Rep. Ray LaHood [R-IL]
Rep. Michael Simpson [R-ID]
Rep. Walter Jones [R-NC]
Rep. John Gingrey [R-GA]
Rep. Geoff Davis [R-KY]
Rep. Ralph Hall [R-TX]
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter [R-MI]
Rep. John Boozman [R-AR]
Rep. Sue Myrick [R-NC]
Rep. Thelma Drake [R-VA]
Rep. Collin Peterson [D-MN]
Rep. John Kline [R-MN]
Rep. Jeffrey Fortenberry [R-NE]
Rep. Rodney Alexander [R-LA]
Rep. Roger Wicker [R-MS]
Rep. Dennis Rehberg [R-MT]
Rep. Marilyn Musgrave [R-CO]
Rep. Charles Norwood [R-GA]
Rep. Ken Calvert [R-CA]
Rep. Michael Conaway [R-TX]
Rep. Virginia Foxx [R-NC]
Rep. Timothy Johnson [R-IL]
Rep. Mike McIntyre [D-NC]
Rep. Zach Wamp [R-TN]
Rep. Vern Buchanan [R-FL]
Rep. Doc Hastings [R-WA]
Rep. Donald Young [R-AK]
Rep. Timothy Walberg [R-MI]
Rep. Barbara Cubin [R-WY]
Rep. Todd Platts [R-PA]
Rep. Donald Manzullo [R-IL]

Hmmmmm, only 2 reps out of all of them are Democrats....

Bill Status:

ALL ACTIONS:
1/4/2007:
Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
2/2/2007:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.
===================================================
>>>>>>>>      3 guesses why this bill will not progress....    <<<<<<<<<<<<
===================================================


 Next is HR 1022

Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (Introduced in House)
HR 1022 IH
110th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 1022
To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 13, 2007
Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL
To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007'.
SEC. 2. REINSTATEMENT FOR 10 YEARS OF REPEALED CRIMINAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO ASSAULT WEAPONS AND LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.
(a) Reinstatement of Provisions Wholly Repealed- Paragraphs (30) and (31) of section 921(a), subsections (v) and (w) and Appendix A of section 922, and the last 2 sentences of section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, as in effect just before the repeal made by section 110105(2) of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, are hereby enacted into law.
(b) Reinstatement of Provisions Partially Repealed- Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in subsection (a)(1), by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following:
`(B) knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), (r), (v), or (w) of section 922;'; and
(2) in subsection (c)(1)(B), by striking clause (i) and inserting the following:
`(i) is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or'.
SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.
(a) In General- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:
`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:

`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;
`(ii) AR-10;
`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;
`(iv) AR70;
`(v) Calico Liberty;
`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;
`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;
`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;
`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;
`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;
`(xi) M1 Carbine;
`(xii) Saiga;
`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;
`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;
`(xv) SLG 95;
`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;
`(xvii) Steyr AUG;
`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;
`(xix) Tavor;
`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or
`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

`(B) The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Calico M-110;
`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;
`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;
`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or
`(v) Uzi.

`(C) The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Armscor 30 BG;
`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;
`(iii) Striker 12; or
`(iv) Streetsweeper.

`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a threaded barrel;
`(iii) a pistol grip;
`(iv) a forward grip; or
`(v) a barrel shroud.

`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--

`(i) a second pistol grip;
`(ii) a threaded barrel;
`(iii) a barrel shroud; or
`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip;
`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).

`(K) A conversion kit.

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.
(b) Related Definitions- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(36) Barrel Shroud- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.
`(37) Conversion Kit- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a semiautomatic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
`(38) Detachable Magazine- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.
`(39) Fixed Magazine- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.
`(40) Folding or Telescoping Stock- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.
`(41) Forward Grip- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.
`(42) Pistol Grip- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.
`(43) Threaded Barrel- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.

SEC. 4. GRANDFATHER PROVISION.
Section 922(v)(2) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--
(1) by inserting `(A)' after `(2)'; and
(2) by adding after and below the end the following:
`(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.
SEC. 5. REPEAL OF CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS.
Section 922(v)(3) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `(3)' and all that follows through the 1st sentence and inserting the following:

`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that--

`(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level, or slide action;
`(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
`(C) is an antique firearm.'.

SEC. 6. REQUIRING BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR THE TRANSFER OF LAWFULLY POSSESSED SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.
Section 922(v) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(5) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer a semiautomatic assault weapon to which paragraph (1) does not apply, except through--
`(A) a licensed dealer, and for purposes of subsection (t) in the case of such a transfer, the weapon shall be considered to be transferred from the business inventory of the licensed dealer and the dealer shall be considered to be the transferor; or
`(B) a State or local law enforcement agency if the transfer is made in accordance with the procedures provided for in subsection (t) of this section and section 923(g).
`(6) The Attorney General shall establish and maintain, in a timely manner, a record of the make, model, and date of manufacture of any semiautomatic assault weapon which the Attorney General is made aware has been used in relation to a crime under Federal or State law, and the nature and circumstances of the crime involved, including the outcome of relevant criminal investigations and proceedings. The Attorney General shall annually submit the record to the Congress and make the record available to the general public.'.
SEC. 7. STRENGTHENING THE BAN ON THE POSSESSION OR TRANSFER OF A LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.
(a) Ban on Transfer of Semiautomatic Assault Weapon With Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device-
(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after subsection (y) the following:
`(z) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer any assault weapon with a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.
(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(Cool Whoever knowingly violates section 922(z) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.'.
(b) Certification Requirement-
(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922(w) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--
(A) in paragraph (3)--
(i) by adding `or' at the end of subparagraph (B); and
(ii) by striking subparagraph (C) and redesignating subparagraph (D) as subparagraph (C); and
(B) by striking paragraph (4) and inserting the following:
`(4) It shall be unlawful for a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer who transfers a large capacity ammunition feeding device that was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection, to fail to certify to the Attorney General before the end of the 60-day period that begins with the date of the transfer, in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, that the device was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.'.
(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title, as amended by subsection (a)(2) of this section, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(9) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(w)(4) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.'.
SEC. 8. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS TRANSFERS TO JUVENILES.
Section 922(x) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in paragraph (1)--
(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and
(B) by adding at the end the following:
`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or
`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'; and
(2) in paragraph (2)--
(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and
(B) by adding at the end the following:
`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or
`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.
SEC. 9. BAN ON IMPORTATION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.
(a) In General- Section 922(w) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--
(1) in paragraph (1), by striking `(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2)' and inserting `(1)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B)';
(2) in paragraph (2), by striking `(2) Paragraph (1)' and inserting `(B) Subparagraph (A)'; and
(3) by inserting before paragraph (3) the following:
`(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to import or bring into the United States a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.
(b) Conforming Amendment- Section 921(a)(31)(A) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994'.

It appears as though they would like to ban everything except six shooters and slingshots. Apparently ANYTHING with a 'clip' or magazine is subject to the ban. Same with pistol grips, threaded barrels, and barrel shrouds.


List of participating Representatives:

Cosponsors [as of 2008-11-06]
Rep. Edward Markey [D-MA]
Rep. Bob Filner [D-CA]
Rep. Bradley Miller [D-NC]
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D-TX]
Rep. Dennis Kucinich [D-OH]
Rep. Jerrold Nadler [D-NY]
Rep. James McGovern [D-MA]
Rep. John Tierney [D-MA]
Rep. Raul Grijalva [D-AZ]
Rep. Yvette Clarke [D-NY]
Rep. William Delahunt [D-MA]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D-NY]
Del. Eleanor Norton [D-DC]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL]
Rep. Robert Wexler [D-FL]
Rep. Sam Farr [D-CA]
Rep. Alcee Hastings [D-FL]
Rep. Melvin Watt [D-NC]
Rep. Allyson Schwartz [D-PA]
Rep. Adam Schiff [D-CA]
Rep. Anna Eshoo [D-CA]
Rep. Gary Ackerman [D-NY]
Rep. Diane Watson [D-CA]
Rep. Diana DeGette [D-CO]
Rep. Ellen Tauscher [D-CA]
Rep. Hilda Solis [D-CA]
Rep. Rush Holt [D-NJ]
Rep. Chaka Fattah [D-PA]
Rep. Zoe Lofgren [D-CA]
Rep. Doris Matsui [D-CA]
Rep. James Langevin [D-RI]
Rep. Henry Johnson [D-GA]
Rep. Neil Abercrombie [D-HI]
Rep. Joseph Crowley [D-NY]
Rep. Kendrick Meek [D-FL]
Rep. Betty McCollum [D-MN]
Rep. Jane Harman [D-CA]
Rep. Lynn Woolsey [D-CA]
Rep. Steven Rothman [D-NJ]
Rep. Barbara Lee [D-CA]
Rep. Barney Frank [D-MA]
Rep. Carolyn Maloney [D-NY]
Rep. Louise Slaughter [D-NY]
Rep. Joe Sestak [D-PA]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL]
Rep. Martin Meehan [D-MA]
Rep. Rahm Emanuel [D-IL]
Rep. William Clay [D-MO]
Rep. Mazie Hirono [D-HI]
Rep. Christopher Van Hollen [D-MD]
Rep. Niki Tsongas [D-MA]
Rep. Albio Sires [D-NJ]
Rep. David Price [D-NC]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA]
Rep. Michael Honda [D-CA]
Rep. Robert Brady [D-PA]
Rep. James Moran [D-VA]
Rep. Edward Pastor [D-AZ]
Rep. Earl Blumenauer [D-OR]
Rep. Albert Wynn [D-MD]
Rep. Patrick Kennedy [D-RI]
Rep. Howard Berman [D-CA]
Rep. John Olver [D-MA]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA]
Rep. Henry Waxman [D-CA]
Rep. William Pascrell [D-NJ]
Rep. Patrick Murphy [D-PA]

You did notice Rahm Emanuel supports this bill. And now that he is Obama's advisor.....guess what......
Rep Dennis Kucinich does too, but for the RIGHT reasons. You will also notice that all 68 sponsors/cosponsors are ALL Democrats.
It would seem they do not want us having more firepower than law enforcement or National Guardsmen...

Bill Status:

ALL ACTIONS:
2/13/2007:
Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
3/19/2007:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.
===============================================================
 >>>>>> Seems DHS got a hold of this bill and squashed it too, probably to be absorbed into the HSA & the Patriot Act.
===============================================================
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heavyhebrew
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2008, 04:19:42 PM »

All tyrannical governments support gun control. The 1st and 2nd amendments in the Bill of Rights are there to safeguard the following rights. The 1st to be heard, loudly. The 2nd for making them listen when words fail to make them heed their bosses, us.
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2008, 04:21:32 PM »

Not to be argumentative, but what are the "right" reasons to support HR 1022 ?
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2008, 04:41:15 PM »

Looks like they will have enough votes in the house for this crap.
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OldSchool
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2008, 05:56:48 PM »

Not to be argumentative, but what are the "right" reasons to support HR 1022 ?
I think that Kicinich had honest intention regarding this bill. He is one of the few reps in DC that is on our side. I watched him hand Kaskari's ass back to him over the bailout scams. And in the sense that the assault weapon ban is, in essence, a positive solution to making these resourses unavailable for the wrong elements in society. To Kucinich it was probably a grounds for negotiation, to define the usefullness of assault weapons and their designated purpose. Assault weapons are not a bad thing. Hell, they have the Ruger Mini-14 listed as an assault weapon. In all practicality it is a reliable 'farm gun' in the sense that it uses readily available ammo. It is solid and a quality firearm. Other side of that coin is that you can now re-equip it with a folding stock and 40 round magazines.
 We have a right to keep and bear arms to protect ourselves and our country. I know I do Smiley Owning a gun and a rifle or a shotgun is one thing, but equipping yourself for paratrooper missions and social disruption like we witnessed in Mubais is another. Even one well placed shot from a TC Contender is most effective against a bullet spitting AK47. Don't get me wrong friend. I'm a red blooded American to the core. More than likely most of the assault weapons that will actually be used for violence will be the ones wielded by thugs and robbers. I believe this was what Kicinich was thinking of. Beyond that, I wouldn't doubt that even he has a 9mm in his nightstand, just like I do Smiley
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OldSchool
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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2008, 05:58:02 PM »

All tyrannical governments support gun control. The 1st and 2nd amendments in the Bill of Rights are there to safeguard the following rights. The 1st to be heard, loudly. The 2nd for making them listen when words fail to make them heed their bosses, us.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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JTCoyoté
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2008, 07:21:23 PM »

How many members here have a semi-auto AK clone... Mak-90's and the like... SKS, AR-15, SPL-Romanian, 7.62x54R Dragonov, and any of the other "Military looking" semi-autos...

I have an old Romanian SKS...

My point is that these are the people who will be seen as Thugs and Robbers as OS puts it... but for every REAL Thug or Robber that has one of these, there a 100 law-abiding individuals that own one or more of them as well, and will be instantly turned into potential criminals if this thing passes...  Both of these TRAVESTIES need to be defeated!!!! And Kucinich needs to be told why...

Read the complete "Grandfather Clause" then think about it...

JTCoyoté

"The right of civilians in a free society to possess "military-looking,"
or even actual military weapons, is essential if a monopoly of force
is not to reside in the hands of government, where modern history
shows the potential for far greater abuses and crimes exists than
are possible for any deranged individual."
~RKBA Summary excerpt;
per, Halbrook, LaPierre, Rice, Simkin & Zelman, (Aymette v. State, 21
Tenn. Reports 154 (1840), cited in U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939)
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ES
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Old Iron Sides: Enemy of Tyrannical Scum


« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2008, 07:40:11 PM »

They also want to ban the sks if it has a detatchable magazine. f**kers! I just bought one of those. Angry
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OldSchool
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2008, 07:44:11 PM »

How many members here have a semi-auto AK clone... Mak-90's and the like... SKS, AR-15, SPL-Romanian, 7.62x54R Dragonov, and any of the other "Military looking" semi-autos...

I have an old Romanian SKS...

My point is that these are the people who will be seen as Thugs and Robbers as OS puts it... but for every REAL Thug or Robber that has one of these, there a 100 law-abiding individuals that own one or more of them as well, and will be instantly turned into potential criminals if this thing passes...  Both of these TRAVESTIES need to be defeated!!!! And Kucinich needs to be told why...

Read the complete "Grandfather Clause" then think about it...

JTCoyoté

"The right of civilians in a free society to possess "military-looking,"
or even actual military weapons, is essential if a monopoly of force
is not to reside in the hands of government, where modern history
shows the potential for far greater abuses and crimes exists than
are possible for any deranged individual."
~RKBA Summary excerpt;
per, Halbrook, LaPierre, Rice, Simkin & Zelman, (Aymette v. State, 21
Tenn. Reports 154 (1840), cited in U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939)


Point well taken. I guess my post could be vague and misleading. I was trying to make the impression of the appropriation of these types of firearms 'en masse' by syndicates like MS13, entrenched drug rings, and the like. But like you mention, for every one of these used illegally, there would be 100 citizens who could apply a '+1-force' combat option. It seems these days, every Constitution-abiding citizen is gonna need one, from the looks of things Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2008, 07:49:40 PM »

They also want to ban the sks if it has a detatchable magazine. f**kers! I just bought one of those. Angry

 Apparently they want to ban just about EVERYTHING with a detachable magazine. It seems they have no problem with bolt/lever/pump action rifles which can do just as much damage as a semi/full auto. I don't see very many 300WinMag assault rifles, and even though you can do hella damage at 1k yards, I guess as long as it's only one shot, the feds aren't worried about it. The whole bill just doesn't make much sense when you step back and look at it. It all boils down to a concealability and capacity issue  Undecided
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ES
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 08:13:38 PM »

Apparently they want to ban just about EVERYTHING with a detachable magazine. It seems they have no problem with bolt/lever/pump action rifles which can do just as much damage as a semi/full auto. I don't see very many 300WinMag assault rifles, and even though you can do hella damage at 1k yards, I guess as long as it's only one shot, the feds aren't worried about it. The whole bill just doesn't make much sense when you step back and look at it. It all boils down to a concealability and capacity issue  Undecided

I'm sure that the bolt action rifles will be next after some lunatic shoots up a school with one. And they will say see these rifles are just as dangerous as those evil assualt rifles. We got to get rid of them too. But of course you can still have them if you keep them locked up at the local poice station and sign them out and pay a big tax when you want to hunt or target shoot.
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2008, 08:43:23 PM »

I'm sure that the bolt action rifles will be next after some lunatic shoots up a school with one. And they will say see these rifles are just as dangerous as those evil assualt rifles. We got to get rid of them too. But of course you can still have them if you keep them locked up at the local poice station and sign them out and pay a big tax when you want to hunt or target shoot.

 Probably so. Then after that, it will be blackpowder rifles (because of their large caliber), then bows, and knives. Pretty soon we'll be regulated right out of ways to defend ourselves, just like the UK.
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2008, 11:52:09 PM »

In his 2003 senate questionnaire, Obama stated that he wanted to ban all arms with calibers .223, and .308...

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/12/sweet_column_obamas_2003_iviip.html

He's a frickin gun-grabbing Leninist!

If any of you have a rep on these sponsorship lists, call, email, and... then do it again... All reps should be called and told that you are sick of them disarming the people, making us criminals with the stroke of a pen... using the excuse that it will stop the "lawless" which by definition can never be done... TELL them these exception makes the rule, Second Amendment gutting, traitorously unconstitutional, blanket style gun-grabbing statutes, MUST STOP!!!!!!!
JOIN www.gunowners.org and/or www.jpfo.org NOW!!

"ARRG!!" "FUKIN'-BASTIDS!!"

"...AAAARRRRRGGG!!!!"


--Oldyoti

"The NRA, behind the scenes, has brokered, compromised,
and then endorsed every major anti Second Amendment
federal law passed for the last 30 years..."

C.E. Lovell, NRA Board Member 1980-93
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2008, 11:55:12 PM »


"The NRA, behind the scenes, has brokered, compromised,
and then endorsed every major anti Second Amendment
federal law passed for the last 30 years..."

C.E. Lovell, NRA Board Member 1980-93


Got my new email sig. Thanks.
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JTCoyoté
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« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2008, 12:30:42 AM »

The words that carry the power in this 2 clause, 27 word amendment are, "...SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."

--Oldyoti

"The reason for the Second Amendment may not be
fully understood until such time as it is needed."

~Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2008, 09:33:16 AM »

I think the way Jefferson put it, see quote below, was pretty clear.  In this Country, close to 200,000 people a year know exactly what Jefferson meant, when they had to protect themselves, their property, or family and friends by exercising this God-given right, that is protected by the Constitution as an individual right.  An *individual* right, a birthright, to protect and defend self and property at the discretion of the individual. This right of necessity precedes all other law.

--Oldyoti

"The reason for the Second Amendment may not be
fully understood until such time as it is needed."

~Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2008, 09:58:52 AM »

H.R. 1022 is anathema or better yet N/A! Angry We all have a god given right to self defense and a right to protect one's or another's life! The constitution is superceded by this god given right!
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« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2008, 10:10:40 AM »

Id love to see those faggoty sons of bitches TRY and take my AKs. You WILL have a war you bastards, and I promise you that.

I dare them to try it. I dare them.
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« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2008, 10:19:38 AM »

Hr1022, interesting that this bill would have the same numerical designation as Rugers 1022 .22 cal semi auto a very popular weapon sure to be banned when the smoke clears over the large caliber weapons.

If we chose to not make (force) our voices to be heard and make Congress obey the Constitution we will find ourselves listed among those nations who have become slaves and will be but another example of how effective gun control is against freedom.

Do as your conscience leads, but as for me I have drawn a line in the sand which once they cross, all bets are off and I will let our Founding Fathers wisdom be my guiding principals in life. They are getting dangerously close to crossing that line in the sand now, for without the ability to defend myself, family, and friends what awaits me / us are FEMA camps, slave labor, or death, not much of a choice and I chose to be in control as much as possible of my future as I can.
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« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2008, 10:39:39 AM »

Do as your conscience leads, but as for me I have drawn a line in the sand which once they cross, all bets are off and I will let our Founding Fathers wisdom be my guiding principals in life. They are getting dangerously close to crossing that line in the sand now, for without the ability to defend myself, family, and friends what awaits me / us are FEMA camps, slave labor, or death, not much of a choice and I chose to be in control as much as possible of my future as I can.



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imanig
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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2008, 05:36:09 PM »

they are just about covering everything-i believe the public should be able to own machineguns-what ever the government and the forien governments posses-in case we have to defend the mother land-history shows that all powers eventualy are invaded-i think a man should be able to hand carry a long gun or holster a side arm in public-in the old days of business,the banksters out there luting our country would justly be shot dead-respect and honor in business-they want americans guns at any cost-if we had more free carry laws at present,i believe there would be less crime and people would probably treat others with a bit more respect-that is my opinion-i have a question-if they reinstate the assault ban as proposed,are all currently owned weapons granfathered in?do you have to turn them in like the britts?will they be legal unloaded?
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« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2008, 05:47:13 PM »

they are just about covering everything-i believe the public should be able to own machineguns-what ever the government and the forien governments posses-in case we have to defend the mother land-history shows that all powers eventualy are invaded-i think a man should be able to hand carry a long gun or holster a side arm in public-in the old days of business,the banksters out there luting our country would justly be shot dead-respect and honor in business-they want americans guns at any cost-if we had more free carry laws at present,i believe there would be less crime and people would probably treat others with a bit more respect-that is my opinion-i have a question-if they reinstate the assault ban as proposed,are all currently owned weapons granfathered in?do you have to turn them in like the britts?will they be legal unloaded?

I believe the last assault weapon (an inappropriate term) ban was initiated during the Reagan administration but then Clinton, of all people, allowed the existing owners of these firearms to keep them (they were grandfathered in). Others please correct me if I am wrong.

I hope Obama will have only a four year window. Hopefully they will have enough to deal with than  messing with the 2nd amendment.
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JTCoyoté
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« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2008, 10:21:08 PM »

I believe the last assault weapon (an inappropriate term) ban was initiated during the Reagan administration but then Clinton, of all people, allowed the existing owners of these firearms to keep them (they were grandfathered in). Others please correct me if I am wrong.

I hope Obama will have only a four year window. Hopefully they will have enough to deal with than  messing with the 2nd amendment.

It may have been thought of during Reagan's time but not by Reagan... The so-called "assault weapons" ban, was passed during the Clinton administration under the name of the 1994 omnibus crime bill... a horrible and draconian bit of legislation, that when stacked up, stood 4 feet tall, some 16,000 pages.

This is the legislation that the National Rifle Association signed off on, that prompted me to send my lifetime membership back to them, with the harshest of words!

There have been many amendments that were dovetailed to this statutory nightmare including the infamous Lautenberg Amendment...  the bills specified here, will be just the latest two...

The only concession we wrangled from the gun grabbers back then was allowing those who already own them to retain them, we will not have that luck this time... they are coming for them!!

JTCoyoté

"Our task of creating a Socialist America can only succeed
when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."

~Sarah Brady
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« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2008, 10:38:35 PM »

It may have been thought of during Reagan's time but not by Reagan... The so-called "assault weapons" ban, was passed during the Clinton administration under the name of the 1994 omnibus crime bill... a horrible and draconian bit of legislation, that when stacked up, stood 4 feet tall, some 16,000 pages.

This is the legislation that the National Rifle Association signed off on, that prompted me to send my lifetime membership back to them, with the harshest of words!

There have been many amendments that were dovetailed to this statutory nightmare including the infamous Lautenberg Amendment...  the bills specified here, will be just the latest two...

The only concession we wrangled from the gun grabbers back then was allowing those who already own them to retain them, we will not have that luck this time... they are coming for them!!

JTCoyoté

"Our task of creating a Socialist America can only succeed
when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."

~Sarah Brady


Not To Mention I saw one news feed on cnn once, In this Clip I saw (and heard) Obama state that if any bill he wanted as law did not pass that he would make it law via Executive Order.

Just the thought of what that implys makes me fighting mad, and also sickened at the same time.
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« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2009, 09:45:46 AM »

seems like every gun law is aimed at banning a type of gun, magazine capacity, stock, grip, caliber…. Laws should be about punishing the individual who uses a gun (any gun) in a crime and not the gun itself. A gun is a tool like a hammer, saw or drill. It would be like putting restrictions on the type of blade your saw could use or drill bit your drill can use. It defeats the usefulness of the tool. Punish those who abuse the tool, not the tool itself!!!
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