Christians on the defense in California

Author Topic: Christians on the defense in California  (Read 49371 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline φυδγε

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,063
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2008, 11:04:00 AM »

It is actually quite well documented that the bible has been mistranslated and misunderstood throughout the years. Have a look at this site

You're right Avers, they couldn't translate it nor decipher the context of it, not even if they prayed for it.  At the same time these same ppl will bitch and moan about the dumbing down of the population, it just boggles my mind...

[22]  φάσκοντες εἶναι σοφοὶ ἐμωράνθησαν, [23]  καὶ “ἤλλαξαν τὴν δόξαν” τοῦ ἀφθάρτου θεοῦ “ἐν ὁμοιώματι” εἰκόνος φθαρτοῦ ἀνθρώπου καὶ πετεινῶν καὶ τετραπόδων καὶ ἑρπετῶν. [24]  Διὸ παρέδωκεν αὐτοὺς ὁ θεὸς ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις τῶν καρδιῶν αὐτῶν εἰς ἀκαθαρσίαν τοῦ ἀτιμάζεσθαι τὰ σώματα αὐτῶν ἐν αὐτοῖς, [25]  οἵτινες μετήλλαξαν τὴν ἀλήθειαν τοῦ θεοῦ ἐν τῷ ψεύδει, καὶ ἐσεβάσθησαν καὶ ἐλάτρευσαν τῇ κτίσει παρὰ τὸν κτίσαντα, ὅς ἐστιν εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας: ἀμήν. [26]  Διὰ τοῦτο παρέδωκεν αὐτοὺς ὁ θεὸς εἰς πάθη ἀτιμίας: αἵ τε γὰρ θήλειαι αὐτῶν μετήλλαξαν τὴν φυσικὴν χρῆσιν εἰς τὴν παρὰ φύσιν, [27]  ὁμοίως τε καὶ οἱ ἄρσενες ἀφέντες τὴν φυσικὴν χρῆσιν τῆς θηλείας ἐξεκαύθησαν ἐν τῇ ὀρέξει αὐτῶν εἰς ἀλλήλους ἄρσενες ἐν ἄρσεσιν, τὴν ἀσχημοσύνην κατεργαζόμενοι καὶ τὴν ἀντιμισθίαν ἣν ἔδει τῆς πλάνης αὐτῶν ἐν αὑτοῖς ἀπολαμβάνοντες. [28]  Καὶ καθὼς οὐκ ἐδοκίμασαν τὸν θεὸν ἔχειν ἐν ἐπιγνώσει, παρέδωκεν αὐτοὺς ὁ θεὸς εἰς ἀδόκιμον νοῦν, ποιεῖν τὰ μὴ καθήκοντα, [29]  πεπληρωμένους πάσῃ ἀδικίᾳ πονηρίᾳ πλεονεξίᾳ κακίᾳ, μεστοὺς φθόνου φόνου ἔριδος δόλου κακοηθίας, ψιθυριστάς, [30]  καταλάλους, θεοστυγεῖς, ὑβριστάς, ὑπερηφάνους, ἀλαζόνας, ἐφευρετὰς κακῶν, γονεῦσιν ἀπειθεῖς, ἀσυνέτους, [31]  ἀσυνθέτους, ἀστόργους, ἀνελεήμονας: [32]  οἵτινες τὸ δικαίωμα τοῦ θεοῦ ἐπιγνόντες, ὅτι οἱ τὰ τοιαῦτα πράσσοντες ἄξιοι θανάτου εἰσίν, οὐ μόνον αὐτὰ ποιοῦσιν ἀλλὰ καὶ συνευδοκοῦσιν τοῖς πράσσουσιν.

Now let's stop the hatred and the wishing to kill other people and saying ppl deserve to die for some reason.

Puff1

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2008, 11:05:38 AM »
Some of us are actually pretty clear about what the Bible has to say.  Sorry you don't like it. 

Avers

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2008, 11:06:40 AM »
Last post, as the thread is getting derailed by the minute:

If it weren't for the Olde Booke rule of law wouldn't have been established to begin with.  Read it. 

No thank you. The bible is single handedly responsible for more murders and deaths than any other written text or event (excepting possibly WWII), has wiped out whole unique cultures and civilizations and is single handedly responsible for the largest oppressions of people known in mankind. Now don't take this personal but no other book, not the Koran, not even the outlawed Mein Kampf, has managed to do this. So I think I'll pass...

Oh and regarding law, societies like Sumer, the Greek and the Egyptians had hugely efficient structures of law hundreds of years before the whole christian belief system even took shape. Maybe you should start there if you're so interested in law?

Offline Geolibertarian

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,156
  • 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.911truth.org
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2008, 11:07:52 AM »
Again you are directly implying that being gay is the same as being a child molester. That is an opinion (however wrong it is), fine by me. But like you said in regards to sexual fetishes, keep it to yourself. People like to stereotype as much as they can, as it makes it easier for them to make 'sense' of the world. But in this case it just doesn't hold any grounds...

Lets give the following example:

You're wasting your time. Having been a Christian myself many years ago, I can say from first hand experience that there are generally two types of Christians in the U.S.: (a) the genuine types who strive not to hypocritically "curse" what they perceive as other people's "darkness," but to instead "light a candle" by humbly living their lives as Jesus reportedly lived his; and (b) the self-righteous, gay-obsessing Bible thumper types who cherry pick from the Bible those verses that allow them to wax indignant about those they dislike, while conveniently ignoring those verses that cast a negative light on their own behavior. The latter type are the Pharisees of their day, but they're too busy decrying the specks in other people's eyes to realize it.
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Doctor No NWO

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,397
  • I WiLL StiCK ThaT VaCCinE in YoUr EyeBaLL NWO!
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2008, 11:24:48 AM »
Some of us are actually pretty clear about what the Bible has to say.  Sorry you don't like it. 

Yep that's true ;)

Some words to describe Gay / Homosexual

Sodomy / Sodomite / Fudge Packer

Not Good to bum Alta boys... right

No offence to you Sodomites here but it seems so unnatural to me...:D

Sorry....But  I can't  go against Gods will 8),

look at what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lgQHQ992Wnw

Not Good.
DEATH to the NWO!

Puff1

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2008, 11:28:16 AM »
Proverbs - Chapter 1

1The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

4To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

5A wise [man] will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

6To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

7The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

8My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

9For they [shall be] an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

10My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

11If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:

12Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

13We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:

14Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:

15My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:

16For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.

17Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.

18And they lay wait for their [own] blood; they lurk privily for their [own] lives.

19So [are] the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; [which] taketh away the life of the owners thereof.

20Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

21She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, [saying],

22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

24Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

27When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

30They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

31Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

32For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

33But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.



Matthew Henry's commentary for Proverbs Chapter 1:

The subject of this book may be thus stated by an enlargement on the opening verses. 1. The Proverbs of Solomon, the son of David, king of Israel. 2. Which treat of the knowledge of wisdom, of piety towards God, of instruction and moral discipline, of the understanding wise and prudent counsels. 3. Which treat of the attainment of instruction in wisdom, which wisdom is to be shown in the conduct of life, and consists in righteousness with regard to our fellow-creatures. 4. Which treat of the giving to the simple sagacity to discover what is right, by supplying them with just principles, and correct views of virtue and vice; and to the young man knowledge, so that he need not err through ignorance; and discretion, so that by pondering well these precepts, he may not err through obstinacy. Take the proverbs of other nations, and we shall find great numbers founded upon selfishness, cunning, pride, injustice, national contempt, and animosities. The principles of the Proverbs of Solomon are piety, charity, justice, benevolence, and true prudence. Their universal purity proves that they are the word of God.The use of the Proverbs. (1-6) Exhortations to fear God and obey parents. (7-9) To avoid the enticings of sinners. (10-19) The address of Wisdom to sinners. (20-33)1-6 The lessons here given are plain, and likely to benefit those who feel their own ignorance, and their need to be taught. If young people take heed to their ways, according to Solomon's Proverbs, they will gain knowledge and discretion. Solomon speaks of the most important points of truth, and a greater than Solomon is here. Christ speaks by his word and by his Spirit. Christ is the Word and the Wisdom of God, and he is made to us wisdom. 7-9 Fools are persons who have no true wisdom, who follow their own devices, without regard to reason, or reverence for God. Children are reasonable creatures, and when we tell them what they must do, we must tell them why. But they are corrupt and wilful, therefore with the instruction there is need of a law. Let Divine truths and commands be to us most honourable; let us value them, and then they shall be so to us. 10-19 Wicked people are zealous in seducing others into the paths of the destroyer: sinners love company in sin. But they have so much the more to answer for. How cautious young people should be! "Consent thou not." Do not say as they say, nor do as they do, or would have thee to do; have no fellowship with them. Who could think that it should be a pleasure to one man to destroy another! See their idea of worldly wealth; but it is neither substance, nor precious. It is the ruinous mistake of thousands, that they overvalue the wealth of this world. Men promise themselves in vain that sin will turn to their advantage. The way of sin is down-hill; men cannot stop themselves. Would young people shun temporal and eternal ruin, let them refuse to take one step in these destructive paths. Men's greediness of gain hurries them upon practices which will not suffer them or others to live out half their days. What is a man profited, though he gain the world, if he lose his life? much less if he lose his soul? 20-33 Solomon, having showed how dangerous it is to hearken to the temptations of Satan, here declares how dangerous it is not to hearken to the calls of God. Christ himself is Wisdom, is Wisdoms. Three sorts of persons are here called by Him: 1. Simple ones. Sinners are fond of their simple notions of good and evil, their simple prejudices against the ways of God, and flatter themselves in their wickedness. 2. Scorners. Proud, jovial people, that make a jest of every thing. Scoffers at religion, that run down every thing sacred and serious. 3. Fools. Those are the worst of fools that hate to be taught, and have a rooted dislike to serious godliness. The precept is plain; Turn you at my reproof. We do not make a right use of reproofs, if we do not turn from evil to that which is good. The promises are very encouraging. Men cannot turn by any power of their own; but God answers, Behold, I will pour out my Spirit unto you. Special grace is needful to sincere conversion. But that grace shall never be denied to any who seek it. The love of Christ, and the promises mingled with his reproofs, surely should have the attention of every one. It may well be asked, how long men mean to proceed in such a perilous path, when the uncertainty of life and the consequences of dying without Christ are considered? Now sinners live at ease, and set sorrow at defiance; but their calamity will come. Now God is ready to hear their prayers; but then they shall cry in vain. Are we yet despisers of wisdom? Let us hearken diligently, and obey the Lord Jesus, that we may enjoy peace of conscience and confidence in God; be free from evil, in life, in death, and for ever.

Offline Pheonix Renewed

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,892
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2008, 11:30:08 AM »
Wow sometimes you can still amaze me. I agree with you.

I think people would amaze you far more often if you didn't make assumptions like these.

Some people buy into the idea that homosexuality is like a "gateway drug" that just opens the path to worse and worse things. Thus they hate and fear them, not really bothering to wonder if perhaps what they've been told about homosexuals may be simply more propaganda. Every group of people contains their outright criminal, evil elements.

But every group of people also has their share of people who really think that they are doing the right thing, believing the right thing, and want to live life the right way. It's not exclusive to Christians, this wanting to do the right thing, the belief in morality as a guiding light in one's life, a morality set out by something grander than the individual or even the society in which they live. Whole societies can do terrible things, we all know that.

The real issue here is that so many people accept the idea that, if a person's morals in one area are different from yours, then that person must be wholesale immoral and evil.

Because I don't subscribe to "homosexuality is evil" doesn't automatically mean that I eat babies, rape goats, and pull the wings off of flies.

Nor does it mean that I think it's good to go around coercing 10 year olds into sexual behaviors. Such behavior is reprehensible, and I am outraged that our society protects people like judges and politicians who do this sort of thing. It is harmful to the children. It flies in the face of who and what America is... FREEDOM. That judge's freedom ends where the life and rights of the child begins.

It may surprise you to know that I am against abortion in any case except rape, incest, or danger to the mother, as well. Yet I see myself as pro-choice. I just happen to acknowledge the fact that SHE ALREADY MADE A CHOICE, and now the consequences must be dealt with.

So if you'd like to be amazed more often, relax some of your prejudices. You might find that those filthy homosexuals are just doing their best to get by in life, to enjoy life, and to be what they sincerely feel is a good person. You can disagree with homosexuality without believing all homosexuals are pedophiles, along with anyone who doesn't join you in believing that about all homosexuals.

Most people want to be good people, and do the right thing. You have chosen the Bible as the source of all of what "beign good and doing right" entails. So live your life accordingly, and practice what you preach. But don't assume the worst possible thing of everyone who doesn't choose the same source of their moral guidance.

Like I keep saying, its one thing to feel that people are misled. It's another to indicate that, because they don't believe like you, they are evil by default. Many people in this world don't believe like you, and they're not evil. They're doing their best to be and do good. To you, this will mean that you will never be willing to see the good in them. You will assume the worst, linking them forever to things like pedophilia.

No wonder you cannot love other people, you cannot see any good in them if you see one thing you don't like. People want to love, and to be loved. This is the essential quality of nearly all of mankind. When you can look at someone, and acknowledge that you disagree with something they do, but still recognize and acknowledge and even find the good in them precious... then you will understand how God sees humanity and why God loves us despite all the things we do that are "bad."

Because behind every homosexual is a beautiful soul, longing to love and be loved. Behind even the pedophile is a soul longing to love and be loved. I don't agree with what they do. What they do is terrible and destructive. I would lock them up in a heartbeat. But I won't assume that just because they are a pedophile, they murder people or do other evil things. They really believe that what they are doing is okay. That means that the children of society must be protected from them. But that doesn't mean that they are evil. They don't get it, and they may never get it.

Just as many Christians believed that it was okay to torture witches- something we recognize as being horrific and terrible and deeply wrong now- so do these people really believe that their tormenting of another person is okay. As a society, we need to put them away. But then we need to learn how to help them understand and have empathy for others. Because ultimately, they are human beings.  Whether they want to be helped or not, who can say. But should they be allowed to continue to harm others? NO.

Where is the line in the sand for me? When it brings harm to another, it is time to step in. The fine details are in the "when does it harm," not in when we must intervene. Sex in the streets is not okay, because it creates a lack of safety for others. It's not hiegenic, and it takes away the right of parents to assume responsibility for when a child is exposed to sexual behaviors.
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

-Edmund Burke

Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

- Cathiasus

EvadingGrid

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2008, 11:35:40 AM »
You're wasting your time. Having been a Christian myself many years ago, I can say from first hand experience that there are generally two types of Christians in the U.S.: (a) the genuine types who strive not to hypocritically "curse" what they perceive as other people's "darkness," but to instead "light a candle" by humbly living their lives as Jesus reportedly lived his; and (b) the self-righteous, gay-obsessing Bible thumper types who cherry pick from the Bible those verses that allow them to wax indignant about those they dislike, while conveniently ignoring those verses that cast a negative light on their own behavior. The latter type are the Pharisees of their day, but they're too busy decrying the specks in other people's eyes to realize it.

I agree  (in sentiment) ;D

Bitch about this sin first
Usury.






Offline Geolibertarian

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,156
  • 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.911truth.org
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2008, 11:39:32 AM »
Where is the line in the sand for me? When it brings harm to another, it is time to step in. The fine details are in the "when does it harm"

That's where the Universal Ethic comes in.

"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Pheonix Renewed

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,892
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2008, 11:45:24 AM »
Yep that's true ;)

Some words to describe Gay / Homosexual

Sodomy / Sodomite / Fudge Packer

Not Good to bum Alta boys... right

No offence to you Sodomites here but it seems so unnatural to me...:D

Sorry....But  I can't  go against Gods will 8),

look at what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lgQHQ992Wnw

Not Good.

Actually, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitability. Job tried to give the crowd his two virgin daughters, rather than let the crowd take the angels. Clearly, he thought that his would appeas them for some reason other than that they were all homosexuals... in fact, more likely, the men wanted to rape the angels not out of sexual gratification, but to dominate them and humiliate them. This is a common way of dehumanizing men... in fact, it's done to this day in our own prisons in Iraq. Sexual humiliation of a man... what would be even more terrifying to a man than seeing his virgin daughters raped? Being anally raped himself. So the sin wasn't sodomy, it was inhospitability to the representative of the Biblegod.

In fact, Jesus later compares two cities to Sodom and Gomorrah, saying they would suffer the same fate, and for the same reason... and why did he curse them? Because they were inhospitable and would not recieve him and his people warmly. In fact, wanted nothing to do with them. No mention is made of them being homosexual, only of them being unwilling to be hospitable and welcoming to Jesus and his followers.

It's a modern mistake to think that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed over homosexuality, and to use it as a word for any intercourse besides vaginal penetration.

So yeah... a little more study might clear up some of your confusion.
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

-Edmund Burke

Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

- Cathiasus

Puff1

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2008, 11:51:25 AM »
I agree  (in sentiment) ;D

Bitch about this sin first
Usury.







Scripture is very clear about this too.  God is against it as it destroys societies and the people in those societies.  Usury is an instrument of the wicked.  God made a lot issues quite clear. 

Offline heavyhebrew

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Laughter is the best medicine.
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2008, 11:52:19 AM »
Your assertion:
So personal freedom and individual choice should only apply to one sect of people? What about the choices of others in society? Child molesters claim they also are born this way. You have NAMBLA supporting this view. Should we pass special laws for these individuals or should society as a whole set the standards they wish to live in? Your argument is a straw man.

My response:


The need for societal control over what constitutes anti-social behavior is an ongoing process. Comparing gays to child molestors and serial killers, on the other hand, is bigotry of the worst sort. What's next, all black people are criminal rapists of white women?

Freedom and liberty are a progression in history. Or we would still be tied to the land, working to pay the Kings Pence.
But nice try tying gay freedom for marriage with criminal deviant behavior like pedophilia.
We work jobs we hate to pay for stuff we don't need to impress people we don't like. Am I the crazy one here?

EvadingGrid

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2008, 11:53:49 AM »
Scripture is very clear about this too.  God is against it as it destroys societies and the people in those societies.  Usury is an instrument of the wicked.  God made a lot issues quite clear. 

Try asking your typical average christian to explain what Usury actualy means....
Its like been "deleted" from the typical church.

Offline Geolibertarian

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,156
  • 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.911truth.org
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2008, 11:58:21 AM »
Try asking your typical average christian to explain what Usury actualy means....
Its like been "deleted" from the typical church.

That's because the typical church is ridiculously obsessed with other things:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2006/11/that_didnt_last.html
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Puff1

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2008, 12:00:08 PM »
Actually, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitability. Job tried to give the crowd his two virgin daughters, rather than let the crowd take the angels. Clearly, he thought that his would appeas them for some reason other than that they were all homosexuals... in fact, more likely, the men wanted to rape the angels not out of sexual gratification, but to dominate them and humiliate them. This is a common way of dehumanizing men... in fact, it's done to this day in our own prisons in Iraq. Sexual humiliation of a man... what would be even more terrifying to a man than seeing his virgin daughters raped? Being anally raped himself. So the sin wasn't sodomy, it was inhospitability to the representative of the Biblegod.

In fact, Jesus later compares two cities to Sodom and Gomorrah, saying they would suffer the same fate, and for the same reason... and why did he curse them? Because they were inhospitable and would not recieve him and his people warmly. In fact, wanted nothing to do with them. No mention is made of them being homosexual, only of them being unwilling to be hospitable and welcoming to Jesus and his followers.

It's a modern mistake to think that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed over homosexuality, and to use it as a word for any intercourse besides vaginal penetration.

So yeah... a little more study might clear up some of your confusion.

Reinterpreting the story of Lot.  It's self explanatory, and an 8 year old could understand it.  Sodom was destroyed for it's wickedness and cruelty, sodomy being a keynote to that wickedness.  Oh, it's Phoenix again, on her mission to protect the populace from God and Holy Writ.

Offline φυδγε

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,063
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2008, 12:07:29 PM »
Reinterpreting the story of Lot.  It's self explanatory, and an 8 year old could understand it.  Sodom was destroyed for it's wickedness and cruelty, sodomy being a keynote to that wickedness.  Oh, it's Phoenix again, on her mission to protect the populace from God and Holy Writ.

And the fact that you equate sodomy with homosexuality is distressing and screaming of ignorance.

So Puff, you are saying when a man rapes another person that is homosexual love?  This is very discouraging.

And before you answer, please tell us who the pathic was in the relationship.  Thanks.

Offline Pheonix Renewed

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,892
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2008, 12:24:23 PM »
Reinterpreting the story of Lot.  It's self explanatory, and an 8 year old could understand it.  Sodom was destroyed for it's wickedness and cruelty, sodomy being a keynote to that wickedness.  Oh, it's Phoenix again, on her mission to protect the populace from God and Holy Writ.

There is no reinterpreting it, there's only interpreting it correctly or incorrectly. Obviously, you interpret it incorrectly. The man tried to give a bunch of homosexuals his two daughters to rape? What kind of idiot are you? You really think that someone who knows that there's a bunch of homosexuals outside his door is going to say, "oh, please take my two daughters intead"? Because he would REALLY think that this would be a bride that a bunch of gay men would take. yes, it's self-explanatory... unless you pretend that part never happened, then suddenly you can make it about homosexuality to suit your agenda, and totally ignore the later reference of Jesus to the cities and their inhospitable nature being THE SAME as that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus doesn't once mention that they are the same due to their homosexuality (which by the way, the whole city would have died off, being full of homosexuals and no heterosexuals), but instead, due to their refusal to entertain Jesus and his message.

This is more propaganda about how you must accept Judaism in one of its forms, or burn. It has nothing to do with homosexuality, it has to do with men raping other men in order to humiliate and psychologically traumatize them. There is nothing hospitable about raping people to prove your dominance and to keep them in their place while in your city- as an outsider.

Although, of course, the bible isn't really against rape. It wasn't the raping that was the problem, it was WHO they were raping.
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

-Edmund Burke

Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

- Cathiasus

Puff1

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2008, 12:25:27 PM »
And the fact that you equate sodomy with homosexuality is distressing and screaming of ignorance.

So Puff, you are saying when a man rapes another person that is homosexual love?  This is very discouraging.

And before you answer, please tell us who the pathic was in the relationship.  Thanks.

The fact that I equate sodomy with homosexuality is distressing and screaming of ignorance?  (scratches head.)   ???

Nonconsensual rape wasn't the issue of the original topic.  What screams of ignorance is the fact that the origins of sodomy isn't clear to begin with - how it was introduced - and by whom.    

Offline Pheonix Renewed

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,892
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2008, 12:34:15 PM »
The fact that I equate sodomy with homosexuality is distressing and screaming of ignorance?  (scratches head.)   ???

Nonconsensual rape wasn't the issue of the original topic.  What screams of ignorance is the fact that the origins of sodomy isn't clear to begin with - how it was introduced - and by whom.    

LOL, well, obviously not by the NWO, since homosexuality is mentioned as early as the garden of eden, according to some Christians. Apparently, Cain is the seed of Satan, and the tree was actually sex with Satan. So first Eve went off and humped Satan, and then she invited Adam along and they had a nice little man-man-woman threesome. Although, of course, there is the whole argument that maybe Satan is female, but either way... either Adam or Eve was bisexual.

Then again, of course, maybe that's not the meaning of it, and it was just the Isrealites themselves who did it. Since God had to tell the priests not to lie together like man and woman (that's the only place where it's actually mentioned-- in the list of things priests could and couldn't do). But maybe it was the outlanders, since it says, "like the heathens do." Of course, what were these Godly people doing mixing it up with heathens and watching them butt-hump each other?

Naturally, though, since the Bible is infallible and clear and the Holy spirit makes sure that everyone who gets saved interprets the Bible exactly the same way... these apparent confusions amongst Christians don't really exist, and there's only one denomination, and there's really only one way to interpret any Bible scripture.

Your way, of course.  ::)
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

-Edmund Burke

Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

- Cathiasus

Puff1

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #59 on: November 19, 2008, 12:40:51 PM »
Sorry Phoenix, your detours don't cut it. 

Offline φυδγε

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,063
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2008, 12:43:38 PM »
The fact that I equate sodomy with homosexuality is distressing and screaming of ignorance?  (scratches head.)   ???   

Sorry Puff your ignorance won't cut it.

Let's stop this hate thread.

EvadingGrid

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2008, 12:44:50 PM »
Hundreds of homosexual activists rushed out of bars and swarmed a group of Christians who were singing songs in San Francisco's Castro District – and some even threatened to kill the worshippers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsxojbyAQGI

Sparks fly as 'gay' activist mob swarms Christians
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81310

I guess we can't vote on what "is" is in this country.


Lets get back on topic please ?

Offline Pheonix Renewed

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,892
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2008, 12:46:07 PM »
Sorry Phoenix, your detours don't cut it. 

You are the one who created the detour by bringing up where it came from. According to some Christians, it came from Adam and Eve and the serpent.

So blaming it on Sodom and Gomorrah is pretty useless, especially considering it was mentioned well before that.

Oh, and I'd be interested in someone linking the exact Bible verses that prohibit pedophilia, and what age it ceases to be pedophilia. Just for fun, since the conversation indicates that the Bible demonizes homosexuality and condemns pedophilia, I think it's apropros to post the verses prohibiting pedophilia and explaining at what age it ceases to be pedophilia.
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

-Edmund Burke

Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

- Cathiasus

Offline Shewolf

  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 354
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2008, 12:49:10 PM »
Lets get back on topic please ?

Indeed! Mention the words Bible or Christian and the thread goes to hell!  ::)
Pass the KY because the government won't provide it!

Puff1

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2008, 12:57:17 PM »
Lets get back on topic please ?

Back on topic, there have been other incidents similar to this one.  The video about this particular incident is most definitely worth watching in terms of demonstrating who was doing what. 

The link again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsxojbyAQGI

Offline Doctor No NWO

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,397
  • I WiLL StiCK ThaT VaCCinE in YoUr EyeBaLL NWO!
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2008, 01:00:37 PM »
Actually, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitability. Job tried to give the crowd his two virgin daughters, rather than let the crowd take the angels. Clearly, he thought that his would appeas them for some reason other than that they were all homosexuals... in fact, more likely, the men wanted to rape the angels not out of sexual gratification, but to dominate them and humiliate them. This is a common way of dehumanizing men... in fact, it's done to this day in our own prisons in Iraq. Sexual humiliation of a man... what would be even more terrifying to a man than seeing his virgin daughters raped? Being anally raped himself. So the sin wasn't sodomy, it was inhospitability to the representative of the Biblegod.

In fact, Jesus later compares two cities to Sodom and Gomorrah, saying they would suffer the same fate, and for the same reason... and why did he curse them? Because they were inhospitable and would not recieve him and his people warmly. In fact, wanted nothing to do with them. No mention is made of them being homosexual, only of them being unwilling to be hospitable and welcoming to Jesus and his followers.

It's a modern mistake to think that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed over homosexuality, and to use it as a word for any intercourse besides vaginal penetration.

So yeah... a little more study might clear up some of your confusion.

That's why I mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah 
it's when some homosexuals over step that fine line in the sand  ;)

Do you want to see how a child see homosexuality?

a 6 year old walks in the park with his Mom on a sunny day & sees 2 homosexual men kissing passionately under a tree

The boy says to Mom "why are those men kissing like that Mom?
The Mom replies "don't look at them men!"
The boy says "why Mommy?"
The Mom says "because men are not to kiss like that, it's disgusting! men do not kiss, its not right!"

Next day at school the Boy is trying to Kiss another Boy in the play ground & the teacher catches them at it, the Boys Mothers are summoned to the school & the principle of the School asks both of the Moms " Do you have a Gay family member?"
The Moms answered "No, why do you ask"?
The principle told them what happened
The Moms were shocked & devastated about what had happened

The story spreads like a wild fire among the other kids & their parents

& what was the end result of what those unaware gay men & what they did in the park that day?
 
The end result was 2 lives affected , 2 families affected & ruined because of what a child had witnessed to men do

Now you tell me how hospitable plays a role in this monkey see monkey do incident
You explain to the humiliated families of those 2 boys what happened to the minds of those 2 boys

Need I say more?
hope you got the point to this true story now because it happened to a friend of mine!

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy indeed, what do you think Sodom and Gomorrah was?
A City of Sin & Homosexuality played a big part in that City, No  matter what you say don't hold up
Immoral behavior ring a bell here or what?

DEATH to the NWO!

Offline Dok

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,269
    • end times and current events
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2008, 01:41:54 PM »
That's why I mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah 
it's when some homosexuals over step that fine line in the sand  ;)

Do you want to see how a child see homosexuality?

a 6 year old walks in the park with his Mom on a sunny day & sees 2 homosexual men kissing passionately under a tree

The boy says to Mom "why are those men kissing like that Mom?
The Mom replies "don't look at them men!"
The boy says "why Mommy?"
The Mom says "because men are not to kiss like that, it's disgusting! men do not kiss, its not right!"

Next day at school the Boy is trying to Kiss another Boy in the play ground & the teacher catches them at it, the Boys Mothers are summoned to the school & the principle of the School asks both of the Moms " Do you have a Gay family member?"
The Moms answered "No, why do you ask"?
The principle told them what happened
The Moms were shocked & devastated about what had happened

The story spreads like a wild fire among the other kids & their parents

& what was the end result of what those unaware gay men & what they did in the park that day?
 
The end result was 2 lives affected , 2 families affected & ruined because of what a child had witnessed to men do

Now you tell me how hospitable plays a role in this monkey see monkey do incident
You explain to the humiliated families of those 2 boys what happened to the minds of those 2 boys

Need I say more?
hope you got the point to this true story now because it happened to a friend of mine!

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy indeed, what do you think Sodom and Gomorrah was?
A City of Sin & Homosexuality played a big part in that City, No  matter what you say don't hold up
Immoral behavior ring a bell here or what?

Good post. This is all about morals and where you draw the line. What kind of behavior is socially accepted. You hypocrites say gay men are allowed but draw the line at a gay man and a teenager. Why? Because that bothers you. What if its two male teenagers oh thats all right. Why what role should age play in it. When is to far to far. Once you cross that line to begin with then how can you tell one person is wrong and another that its OK. The age of consent is under assault in this country, most AoC is 16. Is that all right for a 16 year old to be with a 35 year old person? There trying to get the AoC lowered to 14 will that be alright? You have to make a stand somewhere.


Quote
The need for societal control over what constitutes anti-social behavior is an ongoing process. Comparing gays to child molestors and serial killers, on the other hand, is bigotry of the worst sort. What's next, all black people are criminal rapists of white women?

Freedom and liberty are a progression in history. Or we would still be tied to the land, working to pay the Kings Pence.
But nice try tying gay freedom for marriage with criminal deviant behavior like pedophilia.

By making that comparison is not bigotry its perfectly reasonable. Child molesters are only child molesters because society says so. But they claim they are born this way. Who are we to tell them its wrong, its only there own biological clocks working. If a 25 year old man sleeps with a 15 year old boy we call him a child molester. Yet both gives consent is he still a molester? What if its a 60 year old woman and an 18 year old, is that wrong? (yes the thought is quite wrong). So still society needs to set bounds on its self. A line needs to be drawn in the sand that cannot be crossed. And if we allow this one than how can we say no to the next? Well if we drop the age of consent to 14 than that will be OK. If we allow gay people to adopt there kids will turn out alright. The problem with this is that the people who hold on to morals and values are treated as the bad guys here. And the people with out any are treated as good. Isaiah 5:20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship ;)

Offline Livefreeordie

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,524
  • ~ Matthew 5:11,12 ~
    • Seek and Ye shall find!
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2008, 01:44:49 PM »
That's why I mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah 
it's when some homosexuals over step that fine line in the sand  ;)

Do you want to see how a child see homosexuality?

a 6 year old walks in the park with his Mom on a sunny day & sees 2 homosexual men kissing passionately under a tree

The boy says to Mom "why are those men kissing like that Mom?
The Mom replies "don't look at them men!"
The boy says "why Mommy?"
The Mom says "because men are not to kiss like that, it's disgusting! men do not kiss, its not right!"

Next day at school the Boy is trying to Kiss another Boy in the play ground & the teacher catches them at it, the Boys Mothers are summoned to the school & the principle of the School asks both of the Moms " Do you have a Gay family member?"
The Moms answered "No, why do you ask"?
The principle told them what happened
The Moms were shocked & devastated about what had happened

The story spreads like a wild fire among the other kids & their parents

& what was the end result of what those unaware gay men & what they did in the park that day?
 
The end result was 2 lives affected , 2 families affected & ruined because of what a child had witnessed to men do

Now you tell me how hospitable plays a role in this monkey see monkey do incident
You explain to the humiliated families of those 2 boys what happened to the minds of those 2 boys

Need I say more?
hope you got the point to this true story now because it happened to a friend of mine!

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy indeed, what do you think Sodom and Gomorrah was?
A City of Sin & Homosexuality played a big part in that City, No  matter what you say don't hold up
Immoral behavior ring a bell here or what?



ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Don't mind Pheonix...she's just a total mess...she has about 100 demons living inside her so who wants to perform the exorcist?  :D  ;D  Heck, by her calculations...unbelieving, hell bound reprobates can interpret Scripture better than the Christians...ROTFLMAO!!!!

You born again believers got it all wrong...being a homo is all good...you don't know what the Bible really says...only the heathens can really explain to you what the Bible says and means, just ask Pheonix and Avers... :D :D :D  ;D ;D ;D  ::) ::) ::)


It is actually quite well documented that the bible has been mistranslated and misunderstood throughout the years. Have a look at this site which explains it all in a lot more detail than a simple (mistranslated) quote can:

http://www.jeramyt.org/gay.html

You have GOT to be kidding me here...no wonder why our Country is going to Hell in a hand basket...with fruitcakes like this, lets just turn this country into Sodom and Gomorrah pt2.

Leviticus 18:
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


What's this...a MIStranslation or is God talking about temple prostitutes? LOL!  :D  :D  :D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Oh, that's right...you guys HATE God so who cares what He has to say, right? I mean, He only CREATED ALL THINGS...who gives a rats a** what He says!  ::)

LOL...too sad.  :-[
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" ~ {2 Corinthians 6:14}

Online TahoeBlue

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,558
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2008, 03:08:36 PM »
http://www.fogcityjournal.com/wordpress/2008/11/12/los-angeles-county-joins-prop-8-legal-challenge/

November 12, 2008

Nation’s Most Populous County Joins — for the First Time — the Legal
Defense of Equal Protection, Fight for Marriage Equality in California


If allowed to stand, Prop 8 would so devastate the principle of equal protection that it could endanger the fundamental rights of any potential electoral minority — even for protected classes based on race, religion, national origin and gender.

The City and County of San Francisco was the first government entity in American history ever to sue for marriage equality, asserting in its March 2004 constitutional challenge a broad societal interest to strike down the marriage exclusion in California statutes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)

Ten LDS church buildings in the Sacramento region, and seven houses of worship in Utah, were vandalized in the ten days following the November 4 election, more than that expected for an entire year. The FBI is investigating whether civil rights charges can be brought against the perpetrators and whether the acts of vandalism are hate crimes

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2129820/posts
Prop. 8 protests targeting Mormon Temples in CA, UT and elsewhere
More than 3,000 people swarmed downtown Salt Lake City to march past the LDS temple and church headquarters, protesting Mormon involvement in the campaign for California's Proposition 8

A little history (wiki  timeline seems close to reality here) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Marriage_in_California

In 1977, the California Legislature amended Civil Code section 4100 (predecessor to what is now codified at Family Code section 300) to read that marriage is "a personal relation arising out of a civil contract between a man and a woman".

In 1999, Assembly Bill 26 was passed and marked the first time a state legislature created a domestic partnership statute without the intervention of the courts.

In 2000, voters passed ballot initiative Proposition 22 with 61% of the vote, which added a section to the California Family Code to formally define marriage in California as a union between a man and a woman.

In 2004, a number of developments arose in the wake of Mayor Gavin Newsom's decision to authorize the issuance of marriage licenses to same-sex couples by the City and County of San Francisco.

In 2005, the California state legislature passed the Religious Freedom and Civil Marriage Protection Act which would have recognized same-sex marriage in California.[5] The Act marked the first time that a state legislature had approved a bill authorizing same-sex marriage without a court order.[7] Schwarzenegger vetoed.
In 2007, Schwarzenegger again vetoed the Religious Freedom and Civil Marriage Protection Act.

On October 1, 2007, ProtectMarriage.com filed the initiative that became Proposition 8;

May 16, 2008:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/768419/proposition_22_unconstitutional_california.html

In a landmark ruling, the California Supreme Court today decided to overturn a ruling banning gay marriage in the state. Proposition 22 was passed by CA voters and defined marriage "between a man and a woman". The court ruled 4-3 that domestic partnerships aren't a sufficient substitute for marriage. Surprisingly, 6 of the 7 judges are Republican appointees, whose party has historically sided with such bans.




Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Shewolf

  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 354
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2008, 03:12:19 PM »
Quote
Ten LDS church buildings in the Sacramento region, and seven houses of worship in Utah, were vandalized in the ten days following the November 4 election, more than that expected for an entire year. The FBI is investigating whether civil rights charges can be brought against the perpetrators and whether the acts of vandalism are hate crimes

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2129820/posts
Prop. 8 protests targeting Mormon Temples in CA, UT and elsewhere
More than 3,000 people swarmed downtown Salt Lake City to march past the LDS temple and church headquarters, protesting Mormon involvement in the campaign for California's Proposition 8

If the shoe was on the other foot, hate crime charges would be brought up without a second thought.
Pass the KY because the government won't provide it!

Offline Dok

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,269
    • end times and current events
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2008, 03:14:12 PM »
If the shoe was on the other foot, hate crime charges would be brought up without a second thought.

Exactly.
HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship ;)

Offline kevlar442

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2008, 03:19:11 PM »
I find it hilarious that gays wanna make themselves miserable by getting married.  :D  It isn't all it's cracked up to be.
"So make your move and plead the fifth cuz you can't plead the first"  -Rage Against the Machine

Online TahoeBlue

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,558
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2008, 03:30:19 PM »
A history would not be complete without the repeal of the sodomy laws in California.

http://www.aclu.org/getequal/gettingrid.html

Connecticut followed Illinois's lead in 1971 and 19 more states (Connecticut, Colorado, California, Delaware, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming) repealed their sodomy laws in the 1970's. Most did it as part of a general reform of criminal laws.

California, which had a six year fight over repeal of the sodomy law, was an exception.

California's repeal finally passed in 1975 after a dramatic tie vote in the state Senate, where majority leader George Moscone kept the vote open and the Senate in session while a private plane could be dispatched to bring back the Lt. Governor. He cast the tie breaking vote.

Moscone, later elected mayor of San Francisco, was assassinated in 1978 with Harvey Milk.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Pheonix Renewed

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,892
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2008, 03:49:09 PM »
That's why I mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah 
it's when some homosexuals over step that fine line in the sand  ;)

Once more, no, it isn't. If the men were gay, Lot would not have offered them HIS DAUGHTERS to rape instead of the man. There would have been no sense in the offer and he wouldn't have bothered. The men didn't want to rape because of sex, they wanted to rape because of the mental humiliation it gives. And they only wanted to rape the strangers, not Lot himself, so clearly it was BECAUSE they were strangers.

For you to continue to deny this proves that you are desperately clinging to the Bible as the source of your phobia and lies, instead of accepting that this is a personal problem for you.

Quote
Do you want to see how a child see homosexuality?

You are deliberately asking the wrong, and an incomplete, question. Do I want my child to see ANY people, of ANY gender, having sex on the street? NO. Do I care if my child sees public displays of affection from ANY couple at all? I DO NOT mind my child seeing public displays of affection from ANY couple who keeps it from degenerating into acting out the act while clothed (which is no better than doing so naked).

Quote
a 6 year old walks in the park with his Mom on a sunny day & sees 2 homosexual men kissing passionately under a tree

The boy says to Mom "why are those men kissing like that Mom?
The Mom replies "don't look at them men!"
The boy says "why Mommy?"
The Mom says "because men are not to kiss like that, it's disgusting! men do not kiss, its not right!"

Next day at school the Boy is trying to Kiss another Boy in the play ground & the teacher catches them at it, the Boys Mothers are summoned to the school & the principle of the School asks both of the Moms " Do you have a Gay family member?"
The Moms answered "No, why do you ask"?
The principle told them what happened
The Moms were shocked & devastated about what had happened

Yet if little Johnny had gone to school and tried to force a girl to kiss, that would have been just dandy? If the teacher had found a boy and girl together trying to kiss on the playground, no big deal? Let them have at it, maybe? How about encouraging it? I mean, they're male and female, shouldn't that mean we shouldn't care that they are kissing at any age?

Of course we should.

The ONLY reason they were "devastated" is because it was two boys. The mother already created an enticement for a little boy to try it... tell a little boy that anything is disgusting, and the child's about 50x more likely to try it than he was a minute ago. If she'd nonchalantly said, "sometimes men kiss each other like that when they feel that they love each other the same way mommy and daddy love each other. The Bible teaches that this is wrong, so we make the choice not to do that, but we won't judge other people for doing so," rather than reacting in such a vitriolic, hateful manner... the kid would have shrugged and said, "oh," and gone on with his business. But she made a big deal out of it, and in so doing created a powerful taboo. Boys in particular, at a young age, LOVE to break taboos. Just BECAUSE they are taboos. You don't want your little boy to act out what he sees? Be casual about it, while making your point clear. It's not that difficult, unless you are a bigot incapable of being casual about it.

Quote
The story spreads like a wild fire among the other kids & their parents

& what was the end result of what those unaware gay men & what they did in the park that day?
 
The end result was 2 lives affected , 2 families affected & ruined because of what a child had witnessed to men do

It wasn't the men kissing in the park that causes this, it's the bigotry and the reactions of the adults. Again, if that had been the little boy trying to force a girl to kiss, even though forcing someone to do something is FAR more wrong than two people who love each other kissing... society wouldn't have cared.

The HATE and the BIGOTRY "ruined" those families. Their inability to be reasonable and intelligent about it, combined with people like you and your inability to be reasonable and intelligent about it, "ruined" those families. Making a molehill into Mt. St. Helens erupting is what "ruined" the families.

A child innocently repeating a homosexual kiss is apparently 100x more shocking and appalling than a child rapist attempting to force himself onto a girl. Because, I mean... that's NORMAL. It's OKAY to force yourself onto a GIRL, just don't kiss a BOY!

[quoteNow you tell me how hospitable plays a role in this monkey see monkey do incident
You explain to the humiliated families of those 2 boys what happened to the minds of those 2 boys[/quote]

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Lot story. That's the dumbest damned thing I've seen in a long time. 2 little kids mimicing adult behavior is the same as a town full of men who want to deliberately brutalize strangers only because they are strangers? That doesn't even bear taking seriously.

It's not hard to explain what happened to the minds of those two boys. They explored something they'd seen and that was a taboo, because that's what kids do so love to do. Tell them not to go to a party at school, and what do they do? Sneak out and go.

Once again, the resulting problems the boys would have is a result of the SOCIETY and its HATE and PREJUDICE. The homosexuality of the two men was never the problem, never the issue. It's your hate and spite and vitriole, that you would aim at two little kids who didn't even really understand what they were doing.

Quote
Need I say more?
hope you got the point to this true story now because it happened to a friend of mine!

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy indeed, what do you think Sodom and Gomorrah was?
A City of Sin & Homosexuality played a big part in that City, No  matter what you say don't hold up
Immoral behavior ring a bell here or what?



Should I believe you over Jesus? Jesus compared two cities to Sodom and Gomorrah and said they were destroyed because THEY WERE INHOSPITABLE TO GOD'S MESSENGERS.

Are you more of an authority than Jesus? Dare you to elevate yourself and your 'knowledge' over Jesus? Do you make yourself God over Jesus himself??
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

-Edmund Burke

Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

- Cathiasus

Offline Pheonix Renewed

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,892
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2008, 03:58:58 PM »
By making that comparison is not bigotry its perfectly reasonable. Child molesters are only child molesters because society says so. But they claim they are born this way. Who are we to tell them its wrong, its only there own biological clocks working. If a 25 year old man sleeps with a 15 year old boy we call him a child molester. Yet both gives consent is he still a molester? What if its a 60 year old woman and an 18 year old, is that wrong? (yes the thought is quite wrong). So still society needs to set bounds on its self. A line needs to be drawn in the sand that cannot be crossed. And if we allow this one than how can we say no to the next? Well if we drop the age of consent to 14 than that will be OK. If we allow gay people to adopt there kids will turn out alright. The problem with this is that the people who hold on to morals and values are treated as the bad guys here. And the people with out any are treated as good. Isaiah 5:20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!



Once more, the issue here is that "I was born that way" ceases to matter when one harms another person. Children ARE psychologically and physically harmed by being coerced into sex with adults and even each other. There are people who are born sociopaths, and they harm other people. It is not okay to harm other people, regardless of how you were born.

But homosexuality does not harm other people any more than heterosexuality does, UNLESS, EXACTLY LIKE heterosexuality, it is practiced by an adult upon a child.

This is a clear and simple delineation. Harm versus no harm. Is beating someone not okay? Of course it isn't. This is clear, and why? Because it's one person harming another.

Two consenting adults are not harming each other by getting married and having sex. If I said two 20 year olds got married and had sex, and therefor should go to jail and never get out for their entire lifetimes, you would be outraged that I should suggest a married couple go to jail for their entire lives simply for getting married and having sex. Until I said, "they happen to be gay," and suddenly you would be all cheering me on. Why is that? Because you know perfectly well that adults having sex and getting married is not bad in and of itself. Until the word "homosexual" comes up, and suddenly your mind goes blank with rage.

Once more, it's people like you that ruin lives, not homosexuality. It's the urge to dominate and control other people, regardless of whether or not they are harming others in their actions, that create so much pain in people's lives. Your desire to hurt others for not agreeing with your beliefs. Your desire to shame and humiliate everyone who doesn't toe the line as you demand, no matter the fact that they're not hurting a soul.




Once more, the correllation is clear. The NWO wants to control others, no matter if they are hurting someone or not. They see you as evil simply because you exist and are not one of them, and because you consume resources. You see homosexuals as evil, no matter whether they are hurting someone or not. You see them simply as evil because they are homosexual, and because they don't believe like you do.

The fact that they are human beings who have as much right to live their life free as you do, never occurs to you. All you care about is how it might affect you, if, in your hatred, you might have to endure seeing something you don't agree with. Oh, the horror!
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

-Edmund Burke

Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

- Cathiasus

Offline Livefreeordie

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,524
  • ~ Matthew 5:11,12 ~
    • Seek and Ye shall find!
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2008, 04:01:42 PM »
Once more, no, it isn't. If the men were gay, Lot would not have offered them HIS DAUGHTERS to rape instead of the man. There would have been no sense in the offer and he wouldn't have bothered. The men didn't want to rape because of sex, they wanted to rape because of the mental humiliation it gives. And they only wanted to rape the strangers, not Lot himself, so clearly it was BECAUSE they were strangers.

For you to continue to deny this proves that you are desperately clinging to the Bible as the source of your phobia and lies, instead of accepting that this is a personal problem for you.

You are deliberately asking the wrong, and an incomplete, question. Do I want my child to see ANY people, of ANY gender, having sex on the street? NO. Do I care if my child sees public displays of affection from ANY couple at all? I DO NOT mind my child seeing public displays of affection from ANY couple who keeps it from degenerating into acting out the act while clothed (which is no better than doing so naked).

Yet if little Johnny had gone to school and tried to force a girl to kiss, that would have been just dandy? If the teacher had found a boy and girl together trying to kiss on the playground, no big deal? Let them have at it, maybe? How about encouraging it? I mean, they're male and female, shouldn't that mean we shouldn't care that they are kissing at any age?

Of course we should.

The ONLY reason they were "devastated" is because it was two boys. The mother already created an enticement for a little boy to try it... tell a little boy that anything is disgusting, and the child's about 50x more likely to try it than he was a minute ago. If she'd nonchalantly said, "sometimes men kiss each other like that when they feel that they love each other the same way mommy and daddy love each other. The Bible teaches that this is wrong, so we make the choice not to do that, but we won't judge other people for doing so," rather than reacting in such a vitriolic, hateful manner... the kid would have shrugged and said, "oh," and gone on with his business. But she made a big deal out of it, and in so doing created a powerful taboo. Boys in particular, at a young age, LOVE to break taboos. Just BECAUSE they are taboos. You don't want your little boy to act out what he sees? Be casual about it, while making your point clear. It's not that difficult, unless you are a bigot incapable of being casual about it.

It wasn't the men kissing in the park that causes this, it's the bigotry and the reactions of the adults. Again, if that had been the little boy trying to force a girl to kiss, even though forcing someone to do something is FAR more wrong than two people who love each other kissing... society wouldn't have cared.

The HATE and the BIGOTRY "ruined" those families. Their inability to be reasonable and intelligent about it, combined with people like you and your inability to be reasonable and intelligent about it, "ruined" those families. Making a molehill into Mt. St. Helens erupting is what "ruined" the families.

A child innocently repeating a homosexual kiss is apparently 100x more shocking and appalling than a child rapist attempting to force himself onto a girl. Because, I mean... that's NORMAL. It's OKAY to force yourself onto a GIRL, just don't kiss a BOY!

Should I believe you over Jesus? Jesus compared two cities to Sodom and Gomorrah and said they were destroyed because THEY WERE INHOSPITABLE TO GOD'S MESSENGERS.

Are you more of an authority than Jesus? Dare you to elevate yourself and your 'knowledge' over Jesus? Do you make yourself God over Jesus himself??

Ms. Pheonix, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" ~ {2 Corinthians 6:14}

Offline Dok

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,269
    • end times and current events
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #76 on: November 19, 2008, 04:04:52 PM »
Phoenix, I think Doctor No NWO's post shows how it harms normal families. Im quite sure you dont want your little girl coming home with a girl friend. You just want to attack Jesus. Let me know how thats working out for you there after you quit pounding the screen again.
HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship ;)

Offline Pheonix Renewed

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,892
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #77 on: November 19, 2008, 04:12:42 PM »
Phoenix, I think Doctor No NWO's post shows how it harms normal families. Im quite sure you dont want your little girl coming home with a girl friend. You just want to attack Jesus. Let me know how thats working out for you there after you quit pounding the screen again.

I have no problem at all with my daughter realizing she is gay, if she is. None.

There is no harm whatsoever to families. The harm that was done there was hate. Hate destroys. Judgment and condenmation of others based on nothing more intelligent or worthwhile than "because it's bad, really!" is what destroys. Deliberately making a big deal out of something that was quite small and petty in the grand scheme of life, is what destroyed.

Trying to blame it on homosexuality is like screaming at your child and beating him with a stick until his back breaks, and then forever saying that milk is the problem, milk broke your child's back. No, it was anger, rage, hate, and over-reaction that broke the child's back.

Same in this case. Bigotry, hate, anger, judgment, condemnation, making something small into a massive, major problem... that's what destroyed. No different than beating a child into oblivion for spilling milk doesn't make milk the problem.
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

-Edmund Burke

Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

- Cathiasus

Puff1

  • Guest
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2008, 04:21:54 PM »
Pheonix, seriously.  You don't care about homosexuals.  You're using this issue just as you do other issues to attack Christians.  You're so blinded by your hatred that your logic is impaired.  You make absolutely no sense.   

Offline Dok

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,269
    • end times and current events
Re: Christians on the defense in California
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2008, 04:23:28 PM »
I have no problem at all with my daughter realizing she is gay, if she is. None.

There is no harm whatsoever to families. The harm that was done there was hate. Hate destroys. Judgment and condenmation of others based on nothing more intelligent or worthwhile than "because it's bad, really!" is what destroys. Deliberately making a big deal out of something that was quite small and petty in the grand scheme of life, is what destroyed.

Trying to blame it on homosexuality is like screaming at your child and beating him with a stick until his back breaks, and then forever saying that milk is the problem, milk broke your child's back. No, it was anger, rage, hate, and over-reaction that broke the child's back.

Same in this case. Bigotry, hate, anger, judgment, condemnation, making something small into a massive, major problem... that's what destroyed. No different than beating a child into oblivion for spilling milk doesn't make milk the problem.

Well i think we should just thank God that this didnt pass, and that most of this morally bankrupt country is still against this. Man just imagine how this country would be with out all of us Christians.
HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship ;)