Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix

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Offline Dig

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http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/319836.shtml

Entire Kay Griggs inverview BACK UP: The Military/Homoxsexual Complex
author: we the people VIDEO:GRIGGS whistleblower,homosexuality as U.S. state blackmail in drug running/terrorism

Description: keeping in mind the whole Gosch/Gannon issue, this fits right into it, lock and key. You want to know a major "administrative" network running the world? And in terrorism operations in the West, from behind the scenes: everything from drug running, organized crime, pedophilia, The Franklin Cover Up, Gannon/Gosch, war profiterring in munitions corporations, compromised whole General Staff of the U.S. military, state terrorism operations, fake wars, homosexual/heterosexual 'hazing' rituals for later blackmailing purposes in the miltiary and in the intelligence services, Zionists of NYC, German Nazis, the Nazi Krupp corporate state family, Eisenhower, Bohemian Grove, psychological 'ruining' effects of such 'hazings,' sponsored lower economic class boys who are 'turned' to be willing lackeys to a power structure that is bisexual, parasitial, and operating as a dual informal power structure across all networks of formal power. She says, it's called "The Joint".
        
2 intro pieces (20 minutes apiece, 40 MB total, .wmv) for those who want to get a preview before spending half your life downloading 1.3 Gb's of video in 8 parts.

 http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/03/1730068.php

full 8 parts, back up, at least for a while...:

 http://www.libertythink.com/2005/06/entire-interview-with-kay-griggs.html

I've watched the whole thing. What is fascinating is that this is recorded in 1998--long before Skull and Bones and Bohemian Grove were pseudo-known about in the public mind, and here she is mentioning both offhandedly as tied in. Second, though talking in 1998, she mentions Condi Rice (then on the Board of Directors of Chevron (ex Rockefeller Standard oil of California) as in the network as well. Third, Zionists fit square into it. Fourth, watch the 4th U.S. Marines, out of New Orleans, as very important.

Is Kay safe? From her bruises and history of abuse, probabaly not. Is Kay brave. Yes. She is. Kay did this brave thing to get the word out. She is endangering her life, though in a perverse way of these things, it probably helps to save her life if you watch this and pass this around. It makes a trigger finger less itchy to know the fury that will erupt at her murder. Larger protection for Kay equals the more people that watch and share her testimony.

If you can spare the bandwidth, help find a place to put these elsewhere by way of thanks to the patriotic people at libertythink.com. They are taking it upon themselves to host this incredibly large download once more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.kaygriggstalks.com/

Kay Griggs was a Southern divorcee who rented a room to Marine Corps colonel George Griggs in the late 1980s.  She was impressed by his clipped manner, his education, his good looks.  Two months later she married him.  What she found out about world affairs as George Griggs' wife was astounding.

Colonel Griggs was a Marine Corps Chief of Staff, as well as head of NATO's Psychological Operations.  He was also, his wife realized, entirely mind-controlled.  Kay, a self-declared Christian, became privy to the real workings of the United States military, leadership training, drug-running and weapons sales, and the secret worldwide camps that train professional assassins.

These interviews with Pastor Rick Strawcutter of Adrian, Michigan were conducted in 1998, before September 11th and the installation of U.S. President George W. Bush. Kay Griggs' report of world events and the power elite paints a picture that begins to explain the hows and whys of our current global scenario.
Quotes from Kay Griggs:
 
"They took with them the most perverted aspects of Nazi Germany and brought them
over to the United States."

"They get rid of the good guys. The Marine Corps are the assassins for the Mob. The military is run by the Mob. The military IS the Mob."

"He told me what they did. They nurture--they cultivate--the sons of prominent families. They're called "rising stars." They rope them in. Then they "turn" them."
 
ON ASSASSINS:  "What my husband does for a living is train mercenaries -- young boys from countries like Romania, Dominican Republic, Haiti.  They're training them to be murderers, and the taxpayers' dollars are paying for this.  They psychologically profile them.  The profile is similar to my husband's and Lee Harvey Oswald's and [Timothy] McVeigh's, and others who were all part of this program.  Jeffrey Dahmer was part of this program.  They're all Army.  They were all picked out because they were perverted or twisted.  [The military profiles for] strong mother, weak father, no father, poor.  Because these guys are looking for security, so they will stay in the military and do anything for that security."  (Interviews, Disk 1)
 
"When you work in the White House, you work under the Army.  The Marines have no overlord, as such.  They can float.  They're run out of New Orleans, just like Oswald was.  Oswald was homosexually recruited by Jack Rubinstein, who was Jack Ruby.  All of the funding for these operations goes through the "joint" -- the Mob.  Oswald was a loner, brilliant -- and a perfect candidate.  His [profile] and my husband's profile almost look alike."  (Interviews, Disk 2)
 
ON TRUTH TELLERS:  "St. Elizabeth's Hospital, like the Eastern State Hospital in Williamsburg, has Army intelligence people in there.  They're targets -- people who have decided to tell the truth.  People who believe in the American dream, who are Christians, who are trying to get things straightened out.  If they transgress that line where they upset somebody in high command -- just like in Germany -- they all of a sudden move from being a person to being a target.  Therefore, the enemy. Why are good people silenced, why are their papers gone through?"  (Interviews, Disk 3)
 
ON THE CIA:  "This CIA thing, from my experience, is bogus.  Every person I've known who was in the CIA was in military intelligence first.  For example, my husband.  He works under the Army.  He's a Marine Corps high-level intelligence officer, but he's under all these Army people."  (Interviews, Disk 3)
 
ON LOYALTY:  "Now these generals in the Marine Corps and Army, according to my husband, they are ordered.  My husband, being Chief of Staff, told his men it was like this:  It's the Marine Corps first -- the Brotherhood, the Cherry Marines, the bonding that goes on.  The Marine Corps comes before God, before Jesus Christ, before the country.  My husband is not a Christian, he's an existentialist, and most of these guys are.  [Their god is] the Brotherhood.  It's very German, it has Masonic leanings.  They're all Masons.  This Brotherhood -- Opus Dei -- they're the Mob.  The Marine Corps are the hit men.  They're mercenaries.  They'll work for anybody.  They'll switch hats.  My husband said it's no big deal.  I'll go work for the State Department.
 
"The Marine Corps is just a smoke-and-mirrors thing.  On [my husband's] level, he said we've never been an enemy to the Soviet Union.  They work with these Communists.  The man who started this whole intelligence operation -- OSS [Office of Strategic Services] -- he was recruiting known Communists who were involved in subverting Spain.  They're not Americans.  They're not Christians.  They're German existentialists.  Now what are they doing running our nation?  They have more affinity for the State of Israel than they do our nation.  They don't care about American citizens.  The judges now in the courts are all military officers following chain-of-command orders.  They're not independent judges."  (Interviews, Disk 4)
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Entire Kay Griggs: Military Homoccult Beast
System

"They took with them the most perverted aspects
of Nazi Germany and brought them over to the
United States."

"They get rid of the good guys. The Marine Corps
are the assassins for the Mob. The military is
run by the Mob. The military IS the Mob."

"He told me what they did.
They nurture - they cultivate - the sons of
prominent families. They're called "rising
stars." They rope them in. Then they "turn"
them."

Colonel's wife names names in
Military/homosexual/pedophile Underground

Recently, Kay Griggs, a prominent military
colonel's wife,
 http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2330
set out to right a long history of patent
wrongs, which include:

- homosexual initation rites in the U.S.
military-
- particularly within the Marines;
- well-documented instances of both
- homosexual and
- hetero pedophilia, often as brazen rape,
amongst U.S. military figures and notable
senior statesmen, Henry Kissinger being
named loudly by Mrs. Griggs.

Griggs, in her videotaped interviews recently,
discovered her husband's diary and was
suitably horrified at what she read. She then
began asking questions of her friends in the
military wives club, and many of them
confessed to the same dirty little secrets.

Her candor on video is both disturbing and
compelling: the woman has come to grips with
the fact that this "culture," as she calls
it, is rife within senior U.S. military, and
that the stain of being called out as a
queer is what keeps the men quiet - to the
arms - and drugs - running that are a vital
function of Our Military.

When were the interviews held?

The interviews were held in 1998.

How did the interviews come to be?

Pastor Rick Strawcutter had a pirate radio
station which was shut down in the early
2000s. Kay Griggs had been urged by friends
to call in to his show, and did so in 1998.
Pastor Strawcutter kept her on the air for
an hour, and invited her to come to
Michigan for a longer interview. Kay felt
strongly that her experiences and stunning
knowledge of how our country is run needed
to be known, so she agreed.

How long are the interviews?

7.3 hours. The interviews were held over
the course of a weekend in 1998.

 http://www.kaygriggstalks.com/faq.htm

Griggs video: amazing interview

Continuity

 http://www.guerrillanews.com/forum/thread.php?id=4733

 http://www.guerrillanews.com/users/user.php?id=63
R52046
05/08/05 13:30:18

One

The DIA and special ops were predominantly
running the Contra northern front from Honduras
in the 80s. Alongside the CIA and NSC teams, a
new US military group called the ISA
(Intelligence Special Activity) was moving
hundreds of millions in drug money supposedly
through to US mob-run ports such as New Orleans
and Miami. They apparently were involved in the
Mena, Arkansas cocaine airdrops as well, with
the Barrie Seal thing. Anyway, an unknown
amount of money would be then laundered at Fort
Meade, Maryland—-HQ for the NSA (National
Security Agency).

Two

Also, the CIA secretly organized the purchase
(and theft) of military transport planes and
helicopters via their Pentagon connections.
Beyond all the CIA proprietary companies that
supplied civilian aircraft, they also got hold
of c-130 transports and helicopters destined
for museums.

Three

Next, we have military boys alongside the CIA
in Lebanon doing weird things. The Marine
grunts held the airport as a peacekeeping thing.
But according to Mrs Griggs and also the ebook,
The Last Circle, the US covert forces were
exploiting the tension between the local mafias
and militias to score a lot cheap drugs, while
selling lots of arms and hunting down key
enemies. It is said that the Lockerbie
terrorism bombing had to do with the transport
of heroin from Lebanon.

Four

Where do the military special operators come
from?

They are trained at Fort Bragg, North Carolina—-
which was headed by pro-Bush Army General Stiner,
who is mentioned by Mrs Griggs. General Stiner
and General Joy (also mentioned by Mrs Griggs)
were heavily involved in Bush's invasion of
Panama. The special operators also come from
General Al Gray's jurisdiction (another cited
name). Colonel George Griggs was his chief of
staff.

Five

Griggs evidently trained his marines, mercs,
seals, etc..from the massive Little Creek Naval
Amphibious base on the Virginia coast, near
Norfolk and Virginia Beach—-an area which
constitutes a massive military nexus of power.
It's fairly close to the Fort Bragg nexus of
power. The Virginia base is 2100 acres, the
biggest live fire zone around where operators
hone their trade.

Six

The military has grown to have enormous
jurisdiction over the Caribbean, Central
American, and South American areas. This
military jurisdiction is called SOUTHCOM. Bush
Senior and Clinton both issued very powerful
legislation to deep the military's involvement
in SOUTHCOM. Under the rubric of fighting
terrorism, drugs, and arms smuggling,
evidently SOUTHCOM is wrapped up in these
affairs.

Who commands SOUTHCOM? The very same General
Wilhelm mentioned by Mrs Griggs. It's based
out of Miami, the city Mrs Griggs said her
husband went to work in retirement.

Seven

What the hell is going on with SOUTHCOM? Well,
for starters they are sending special
operators into Colombia, a country which has
attracted the US for its drugs, oil, and
precious minerals. It's part of Plan Colombia
and the Andean Initiative set in motion by
Bush Senior and Clinton.

Eight

Proof of SOUTHCOM drugs & arms smuggling? The
case is building. In fact, just a week or two
ago, this happened and there's a much better
explanation of that here and here. Notice that
these are special operators, part of the growing
detachment of US troops in Colombia.

Nine

Which is just like when in March 5,
US soldiers were also arrested for drug
smuggling

Post Modified: 05/08/05 13:46:18


Rasputin
R52677
05/10/05 06:48:20 Under the rubric of fighting
terrorism, drugs, and arms smuggling, evidently
SOUTHCOM is wrapped up in these affairs.

Heh, that about sums it up.

Great avatar;)

Let's take a look at the accused:

General Wilhelm:

General Jim Joy:
BGen Jim R. Joy (right) relieves Col James P.
Faulkner as 22d Marine Amphibious Unit commander
on board the Guam (LPH 9) off Beirut on 17
November 1983.

General Stiner:

"They train assassins," says Griggs... .
"It's an old boy network, it's an institution,
and it's run through the State Department... .


"It's all about making money... selling weapons and
selling drugs"

"What are they doing running our country?"


Rasputin
R52680
05/10/05 07:02:16 United States Marine Corps
(Ret.)

Brigadier General
James R. Joy

Brigadier General Jim R. Joy last served on
active duty as the Director, Personnel
Procurement Division, Manpower Department,
Headquarters Marine Corps, Washington, D. C.
General Joy graduated from Northwest Missouri
State University in 1957 with a B. S. degree in
Education, and also holds an M. S. degree in
Public Administration from George Washington
University and an M. A. degree in Human Affairs
from the University of Oklahoma.

Commissioned a second lieutenant in June 1957,
he attended The Basic School at Quantico, Va.,
graduating in February 1958. From there, he
reported to Camp Pendleton, Calif., where he
served as a Platoon Leader with the 1st Marine
Division, until February 1959. He was next
ordered to duty aboard the aircraft carrier USS
ORISKANY (CVA-34), as the Executive Officer of
the ship's Marine Detachment. Following sea
duty, General Joy spent the next three years
with Headquarters and Headquarters Squadron,
Marine Corps Air Station, Santa Ana, Calif.,
where he served consecutively as Adjutant,
Executive Officer and Commanding Officer.
During this tour, he was promoted to captain
in June 1962.

In June 1963, General Joy received orders to
Washington, D. C., for duty with the 13th
Infantry Battalion, USMCR. He remained in this
assignment until he deployed to Vietnam for duty
with the 26th Marines. While in Vietnam he was
promoted to major in February 1967. He returned
to the United States in July 1967, and attended
the Command and Staff College at Quantico. Upon
graduation was assigned to the Office of the
Secretary of Defense in Washington, D.C.

He returned to Vietnam for duty as an advisor
with the Vietnamese Marine Corps in July 1971,
followed by duty in the Canal Zone, where he
served Commanding Officer of the Marine
Barracks, with additional duty as Marine
Officer on the Staff of Commander, U.S. Naval
Forces, Southern Command. He was promoted to
lieutenant colonel in September 1973.

Transferred to the U.S., General Joy spent
three years at Headquarters Marine Corps,
Washington, D.C., in the Operations Division,
Operations and Training Department. During
academic year 1978-79, General Joy was a
student at the Army War College, Carlisle
Barracks, Pa., and upon graduation, he reported
to Camp Lejeune for duty with the 2d Marine
Division, serving initially as G-1, Commanding
Officer of the 8th Marines and, for the last
year, Chief of Staff. While in this assignment,
he was promoted to colonel in July 1979.

General Joy was assigned duty as the Fleet
Marine Officer on the Staff of Commander, 6th
Fleet in May 1982. While serving in this
capacity, he was selected in February 1983 for
promotion to brigadier general. He was advanced
to that grade on July 5, 1983 and assigned duty
as the Assistant Division Commander, 2d Marine
Division, FMF, Atlantic, Camp Lejeune, N.C., on
August 2, 1983. During November he was assigned
as the Commanding General of the 22d Marine
Amphibious Unit in Lebanon. The following
February, he became the Commander of Joint Task
Force, Lebanon. He was assigned duty as the
Deputy Commanding General, Marine Corps Recruit
Depot Deputy Commanding General, Eastern
Recruiting Region, Parris Island, S.C., on May
22, 1984. He served as Director Personnel
Procurement from 1985-1988.

Upon retirement on June 1, 1988 he became
Director of the Marine Corps Morwale, Welfare,
and Recreation (MWR) programs, serving in that
capacity until retirement on Noveber 1, 1996.

His medals and decorations include: Defense
Superior Service Medal, the Purple Heart,
Legion of Merit with Combat "V" and three gold
stars in lieu of fourth award; the Bronze Star
Medal with Combat "V", the Joint Service
Commendation Medal; Navy Commendation Medal
with Combat "V", the National Defense Service
Medal; Vietnam Serve Medal; Sea Service
Deployment Ribbon; Republic of Vietnam Cross
of Gallantry with Silver Star; and the Republic
of Vietnam Campaign Medal with device.

(Revised May 08, 2002 HQMC)


Butt
R52694
05/10/05 07:57:08 wow
Continuity you're really deep into this stuff
ain't ya??

Contingency, you should consider posting blogs.
That way the material will get onto the front
page and get more exposure.

Seconded - will whip the troops together to
vote for it as well

Post Modified: 05/10/05 07:57:44

Rasputin
R52695
05/10/05 08:03:43
Walt Rostow

Continuity
R52933
05/10/05 21:35:24 Hi Fennec. Thanks Butt.
Obliged for the visuals, Rasputin. You beat
me to it. Or 'them.'

These are real people K. Griggs is talking
about. The official bio Rasputin pasted says
that General Joy was in Beirut, Lebanon, as
she (K) explained. Other bios say that her
husband was there also with his boss, General
Gray. Of course, those facts alone are hardly
proof of any wrongdoing, but so far the basic
setting is corroborated.

To corroborate another background detail of
her story, I recently emailed a major
alternative news journalist who investigatives
this stuff. He was unfamiliar with the Griggs
stuff and warned that she may be exaggerating,
but he specifially wrote: It is somewhat well
known in DC that retired General Al Gray is
gay.

As a sidenote, Mrs Griggs claimed several
other elite marines are closet homosexuals
(probably they are really bi, like how she
describes her husband). She also describes
that some of the elite men in her area,
Norfolk and Virginia Beach, are the same way.

It just so happens that in Aug 2004, during
the height of election season, Republican
Congressmen Ed Schrock, suddenly and
inexplicably dropped from the election race
from Mrs Grigg's hometown of Virginia Beach.

A well-known gay-rights activist accused that
Schrock, an opponent of gay rights, was in
fact a closet homosexual. The activist even
had audio files of Schrock leaving messages
on a gay male dating line where members
discuss sex and what they are looking for.

Specializing in military and conservative
issues, Schrock is a former navy captain. He
founded and remains a co-chair of the House
Navy/Marine Corps Caucus and the House Special
Operations Forces Caucus. The House Special
Forces Caucus supports issues related to
Special Operations Forces, in cluding the Navy
SEALS, Army Airborne, and Air Force Special
Operations.

Sources: Sfgate

Wavy TV

LA Weekly article starts with Schrock and then
acknowledges Republican Congressman's Dreier's
closet situation.

It's like the bombshell, says one Norfolk
Republican.

The Raw Story

 http://www.guerrillanews.com/forum/thread.php?id=4733

Related Posts:
Elite Fraternities of Co-opted Govt Sex-
Slavers for Satan Schwarzkopf Blackheads &
New Jersey State Police Nazis "CIA Diary"
by Agee, 1975: Kill Puppets for Kingly Clans
Gannon: Sleepover Buddy or White House
Backdoor Man? Franklin S&L: Republican
Global Homosexual Slave Network
Albert Pike, 1871: Vile Masses Too Weak for
Truth
Aleister Crowley: Anal Sex Magick and the
OrdoTempli Orientis
 http://radio.weblogs.com/0123486/myImages/newpix/jul23.04/9.19.04/12.19.04/2.24.05/kay_griggs.jpg
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Quotes_of_the_Imperium
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheNeuschwabenlandTimes

End

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Interview of Kay Griggs also available at 888-820-2126.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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Re: It is time to replay all seven hours of the Kay Griggs Interviews
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2008, 10:56:27 AM »
Semper Fidelis, by David Hoffman -- The Story of Colonel James E. Sabow: msg#00242
culture.discuss.cia-drugs
Subject:    Semper Fidelis, by David Hoffman -- The Story of Colonel James E. Sabow
http://osdir.com/ml/culture.discuss.cia-drugs/2005-09/msg00242.html   

On January 14, 1991, Colonel James E. Sabow, 51, was named Acting Chief of Staff of Marine Corps Air Operations for the Western United States. Eight days later he was found at his home at El Toro Air Station, killed by a shotgun blast to the head.
 
Like Admiral Boorda, he left behind a wife and two children.
 
And, as in the case of Admiral Boorda, the Marine Corps and the NCIS claimed that Colonel Sabow took his life because he was despondent over an investigation of a minor infraction: whether he took some stereo equipment and household items to his son while making a routine flight onboard a military plane.

 
Yet Sabow suspected that there was more than just the alleged misuse of aircraft. He and his friends in the Corps found it rather absurd that Marine Headquarters would consider the matter of such importance that they would jeopardize the operations of this strategic base during ?Operation Desert Shield.? At least some of the allegations levied against Sabow (and his neighbor, Colonel Joseph Underwood, Chief of Staff at El Toro at the time) were of a type that were considered trivial and ?common practice? among the military flying community. In fact, retired Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps Major General J.K. Davis said that any pilot who had ever flown in the military would be ?canned? had they been held to the same standards as the allegations against Colonel Sabow.

 
General David Shuter gave a glowing eulogy of Colonel Sabow, in which he described him as a man ?without compromise,? one of the few who could give himself fully to the Corps and country and simultaneously to his family. He also described Sabow by all those in the Corps who knew him as the ?straightest of straight arrows.?[1]
 
Sabow?s family asserts that ?Jimmy? Sabow - a dedicated, discipline Marine and family man - would not kill himself. ?He was a fighter, and I don?t see how he could just change like that,? said his 17-year-old daughter, Deirdre.
 
Sabow?s attorney, Captain Paul McBride, wrote that ?Colonel Sabow was in a state of high anxiety; however he never displayed hysteria or irrational behavior.?

 
Sabow?s brother, David, a South Dakota neurosurgeon, didn?t buy the suicide story. If the Colonel killed himself, his brother wanted to know, why did X-rays show a swollen area on his head, a possible sign that he had been struck?[2*] As Dr. David Rubinstein, a radiologist from Denver?s University Hospital writes:
 
?The depressed skull fracture... is not likely to have resulted from the shotgun blast. What caused the depressed fracture is open to speculation. It is unlikely to have occurred if the patient fell backwards and struck the ground.?[3]
 
Since the shotgun blast severed Colonel Sabow?s brain stem - which Dr. Sabow and other forensic pathologists say would have ended breathing instantly - why was there a large amount of blood in his lungs?[4]
 
And if Sabow put the shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger, why, as in the case of Vince Foster, was there no blood on the gun? As Martin L. Fackler, a world renowned wound ballistics expert, writes:
 
?The position of the shotgun (under his body) and the lack of gross blood on the front of the white garments that Col. Sabow was wearing at the time of his death make suicide appear, to me, unlikely....?[5]
 
Since none of Sabow?s fingerprints were found on the gun or the shell casings, his wife and brother became highly suspicious.[6*]
 
As Fackler adds:
 
?One of the reasons given, however, for the lack of fingerprints - that the barrel gets so hot that any fingerprints on it would be burned off - is simply absurd. This is within my area of expertise: I have handled many shotguns immediately after they have been fired - the barrels are not even hot to the touch.?[7*]
 
According to standard police procedure, all shootings are supposed to be treated as ?suspicious? until proven otherwise. Yet before the autopsy report was even complete, the Provost Marshal and the NCIS ruled that Colonel Sabow had committed suicide. This ruling was made within minutes, even before forensic evidence or ballistic reports were available!

 
Contrary to policy, the Orange County Coroner was summoned to participate in the investigation and to conduct the autopsy.[8*] By law, either a Navy pathologist or his representative must be present, and the autopsy results would have to have been reviewed by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP). Yet neither the AFIP nor the regional military forensic pathologist were invited to participate in the examination nor review the autopsy report.

 
?All of these laws were broken,? says Dr. Sabow. ?Not one of these procedures were followed.... The NCIS and the Marine Corps refused to give me certain information that obviously I should have been privy to: the autopsy report, the NCIS?s preliminary findings, fingerprint evidence, ballistic evidence, etc., etc.... I was stonewalled and told I could not have the autopsy report. That generated even more suspicion....?[9]
 
Sabow subsequently sought the help of his government - a government he believed existed to ?serve and protect? the rights of its citizens.
 
?I tried to obtain the help of the military, the Marines, the NCIS, the FBI, Justice Department, my Senators, Congressmen, you name it,? says Sabow, ?and I was totally shut down....?[10*]
 
Within 12 hours of granting an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Dr. Sabow was called by General Tom Adams, the commander of El Torro.
 
?Adams had been informed by NCIS agent Cheryl Baldwin through her supervisor, Mike Barrett, that I intended to go to the LA Times because I was not satisfied with the conduct of the investigation.?
 
As a condition of the meeting, Sabow asked that Colonel William Lucas, the Staff Judge Advocate, General David Shuter and General J.K. Davis, retired Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps be present. Adams agreed.
 
Yet when Sabow got to the meeting, Lucas was nowhere to be found.
 
?I was disturbed by his absence, for I believed that he had the most critical information that I needed at this point in my search,? says Sabow. ?He was privy to the events leading up to the dismissal of Colonel Sabow, and surely he would have access to the autopsy report and other essential documents that I was being denied.?
 
Instead, Lucas was replaced with Colonel Wayne Rich.
 
?At that time, I had no knowledge of Rich?s importance in relation to his presence at this meeting,? says Sabow. ?Later I learned that he was the Assistant Attorney General of the U.S. ?in charge of training.? In fact, he never did any training, but rather was brought into the Attorney General?s office in the late 80?s for ?damage control? in such matters as ?Iran-Contra? and the ?Inslaw affair.?
 
?It was obvious at that meeting that these people were lying - from beginning to end. They said at the meeting again, that the autopsy material wasn?t available, fingerprint material wasn?t available, etc., etc.....
 
?Then I realized they were trying to intimidate me. They were accusing my brother of horrible activities. They thought they would deter me from going ahead with the interview, for if I did then they would tell what a horrible person Colonel Sabow was - what he crook he was, and a felon.?
 
Dr. Sabow and the Colonel?s grieving widow, Sally, said they were threatened and yelled at during the meeting.
 
?The abuse we sustained during that meeting was horrible,? says Sabow. ?At one point, Adams leaned in front of me, pointed at Mrs. Sabow, then screamed at her to stop any contact with his ex-wife. Adams then warned Sally to stop spreading a rumor that he had some involvement in Jimmy?s death. In fact, at that point, Sally had not given this even the slightest consideration!?
 
It was only then that Sabow realized he being played for a pawn in a complex web of conspiracy and intrigue.
 
?It became obvious to me that these two had conspired to concoct a scenario of lies that would paint the dead Colonel with a brush of disgrace,? says Sabow. ?They hoped this would shame the Colonel?s widow and me into silence. I didn?t buy their act.?
 
After Sabow threatened to go public, Adams drafted a letter to the South Dakota medical authorities, ?making the strongest complaint that could be mustered against Dr. Sabow,? and threatened to send it unless Sabow ?ceased all questioning of the investigation,? according to civil suit documents.[11*]
 
The Murder
 
Slightly over two months after Dr. Sabow?s traumatic meeting at El Toro, he received a mysterious package containing some very disturbing documents.
 
?I received a package from what I call a ?deep-throat? source,? says Sabow, ?and that package had hand-written notes from an individual who subsequently proved to be Colonel Wayne Rich, who really chaired the meeting.?
 
The notes were written during a conversation with Colonel George Lang III, Deputy Staff Judge Advocate in Washington, stating their intention to convince Dr. Sabow that his brother?s death was a suicide. The call was made on March 8, l99l, the day before Sabow was to meet with General Adams.
 
?It?s things like this,? says Sabow, ?in his own handwriting now: ?Dr. Sabow is planning on giving an interview with the LA Times. We are about to try to convince Sabow?s brother that his brother was a crook & so big a crook....? Towards the end it says: ?script meeting.??[12*]
 
The mystery package also contained requests to the legal department at El Toro to inquire about methods of having Dr. Sabow?s medical license suspended - a directive from none other than General Tom Adams.[13] (See Appendix)
 
Also included was a copy of responses of ?witnesses? interviewed by the Inspector General (IG), attempting to depict misconduct by Colonel Sabow. Only the responses were transcribed.
 
?Not one of the questions that were supposedly asked in these interviews was included,? claims Sabow. Sabow also learned that at least one Marine officer interviewed, Major Bob Friend, when asked to sign the transcript, refused, claiming the statements did not accurately reflect his responses.
 
Shortly thereafter, Dr. Sabow received a phone call from an ex-NCIS agent who offered his help. Fearing that he might be a plant, Sabow had him checked out. Yet the ex-investigator would prove to be a highly valuable source of information. He had learned from a lawyer in the Judge Advocate General?s (JAG) office that dates on documents written following Colonel Sabow?s death were altered to show that they were written before his death - an attempt to bolster the fraudulent allegations against him. The falsification was ordered by senior officers, but was carried out by those in the JAG office, all of whom were attorneys.

 
Yet Dr. Sabow would soon come to learn that documents and witness statements weren?t the only thing that was altered. Another of Sabow?s sources - an NCIS agent at the time of the shooting - had watched a series of bizarre events unfolding at the scene of the crime. Hidden in a trash cubical behind Colonel Sabow?s backyard, the agent witnessed everything that would take place at the scene subsequent to the shooting.
 
Several minutes after the fatal shot was fired, the Provost Marshall, Major Goodrow and his deputy, Captain Fouquer arrived on the scene. Their radio dispatch was intercepted by Sergeant Randy Robinson, an M.P. patrolling in the vicinity, who arrived a minute later.
 
At the same time, the NCIS was notified, and soon after their entire office showed up, followed by the base emergency medical technicians.
 
That, according to Sabow, is where the situation started getting weird.
 
?Before they even have the crime scene secured,? says Sabow, ?three men in civilian clothes show up in the backyard. And they walk up and ask who is in charge of the crime scene. And an NCIS agent by the name of Cheryl Baldwin, who was assigned as the case officer, said ?I am.? At this point nobody knows who they are, nobody except Baldwin. And a big argument ensues, and they do something or show her something that convinces her to get the hell out - clear everybody out of the entire crime scene. They were not only forced out of the backyard, they were forced across the street!

 
?And then after everybody was cleared out, then these three men go back through the house, and proceed to sanitize the entire backyard.?
 
According to the hidden NCIS agent, one of the men walked directly to the common area separating the Sabow and Underwood homes, stooped down in the relatively lush grass, and picked up a club - most likely the club that had caused the bruise on Colonel Sabow?s head.
  • While the others rearranged the remainder of the crime scene, this man headed directly for a gate that few knew existed, hidden in the back of Colonel Underwood?s yard, and disappeared. Once the crime scene had been sanitized, everyone was allowed back in.

 
?One of the NCIS agents who witnessed this, from the short distance in the backyard,? said Sabow, ?knew that something very, very strange - totally unorthodox, was taking place. Later he wrote the series of events in his official report, and was ordered to destroy it.?
 
Sabow would never learn the identity of the three mystery men. But he would later learn of the presence of a CIT (Counter-Intelligence Terrorism) team at El Torro that day. The team was stationed at Camp Pendelton, flown by a regular Marine courier helicopter and dropped off at a remote area of the El Torro airfield, directly behind the Sabow house, approximately 300-350 yards away. Rather than land at the tower, the chopper landed at a point on the field that was closest to the back of the Sabow and Underwood homes.
 
?Four civilian-dressed people were dropped off from the helicopter,? says Sabow. ?The helicopter then immediately took off, went right across the airfield, and landed where it usually does, at the tower. The pilot got out and told the people in the tower that he was having some trouble and he was checking himself out and that?s why he had landed across the field. But he said he wasn?t sure and he may do the same thing again, and he did.?
 
The team was dropped off at 8:05 am.
 
?And at five or ten after 9:00, he landed there again, and picked up the men. We were told he picked them up from the records. However, we feel the records are false and he only picked up only one man,? accounting for the three that remained behind at the scene of the crime.
 
Colonel Sabow was killed between 8:00 and 9:00 am.
 
?The window is very narrow,? says Sabow. ?It?s between 8:32 and 8:58 am. And everybody agrees to that.
 
As for as the CIT team, ?They?re nothing but professional assassins, trained by and work for the military,? says Sabow. ?They can use any uniform they want. From what I understand from the experts, they have a team like in two or three places in the country. There?s only a few of these teams. These are tough, tough sociopaths. And let?s say they are going to do something domestically, say on a military base, then they don the appropriate apparel.?
 
Dr. Sabow believes plan was to kill Colonel Sabow and his wife.
 
?The team was in charge of killing the Colonel and Sally,? said Sabow. ?It was supposed to be a murder/suicide.?
 
Killing both would make it appear that the Colonel first murdered his wife and then took his own life. This would help explain the lack of a suicide note, for it was common knowledge that the Sabows were very close, and if Sabow would take his own life, he would surely have said ?good-bye? to Sally. Murder, followed by suicide, solved this problem. But equally important, if Sabow had confided in Sally concerning the clandestine operations that led to his murder, her death would ensure the continuing secrecy. Hence, there were two shells in the chamber of the double barreled shotgun, not just one!
 
In a chronology meticulously pieced together through years of dogged, painstaking investigation, Dr. Sabow believes the events that unfolded on the morning of his brother?s death transpired as follows:
 
?At 8:30 and I mean exactly at 8:30, Colonel Sabow received a phone call, which Sally witnessed. He said ?This is Colonel Sabow? and there was a hesitation, and he said ?this is Colonel Sabow?... three times, and there was no response.?

 
Dr. Sabow is convinced the mystery caller telephoned to determine whether his brother was at home. Yet he believes either that call or another caused him to go into the backyard. Sabow thereupon met Underwood who had just passed through the gate. They started to walk back to Sabow?s house when Underwood asked Sabow where Sally was. Sabow explained that Sally had just run to Mass but would be returning immediately thereafter. Underwood realized that a weekday Mass would indeed last only from 20 to 30 minutes and that she would probably return between 9:00 and 9:l0 a.m.
 
The walk continued along the 50 foot distance from the fence to the door. Suddenly, Underwood dropped a step behind and hit Sabow in the back of the head, ?cold-cocking? him. The blow fractured the base of Sabow?s skull (although it?s possible that while Underwood was diverting Sabow?s attention one of the accomplices delivered the fatal blow).

 
With Sabow rendered unconscious, one or perhaps two accomplices rushed through the gate from Underwood?s backyard to join him, carrying the loaded shotgun which had previously been removed from the Sabow house (probably by Underwood the previous weekend). Sabow lay on the ground, already near death, drowning in his own blood. The gun was then shoved into the dying Colonel?s mouth and fired.

 
The assailants then ran into the house to apprehend Sally, for Underwood still wasn?t sure she was not home since her car was in the driveway when he called. The killers then waited, peering out a bedroom window, expecting Sally at any moment. Yet their plan to kill her was thwarted by the arrival of Lieutenant Colonel Gary Albin, who was returning some flight manuals to Sabow. Getting no answer, Albin decided to wait on the porch and try again.
 
By this time, it was nearly 9:l0 and Underwood knew Sally would return from church at any moment. If she did, in all likelihood, she would invite Albin into the house. This would result in Albin discovering the body with Sally, and it would then be necessary to kill Albin too. But that would ruin the murder-suicide plan which was already in place.
 
Instead the killers ran out the back of the house and put the shotgun under Colonel Sabow. The accomplices then exited through a partially hidden gate in the rear of Underwood?s backyard which led to the airfield, allowing for a quick getaway by helicopter.
 
In the meantime Underwood ran through his kitchen door, picked up a coffee mug and proceeded to walk casually out his front door to be seen by Albin, hoping to establish an alibi.[14]
 
Stepping from his porch, coffee cup in hand, he was noticed by Albin, who asked where Colonel Sabow was. Underwood casually replied that Sabow was not at home, and was with Sally at the base exchange.
 
?Not only should Underwood not have known the whereabouts of Jimmy,? says Dr. Sabow, ?he initially told Albin that Sabow wasn?t at home, and then only an hour later told the NCIS that he was on his way to visit him! Furthermore, Underwood never visited Sabow by the front entrance but always through the gate in the back yard!?
 
After Sally discovered her husband?s body, she ran to Underwood?s house in hysterics and screamed ?Jimmy is dead!?
  • Feigning shock, Underwood ran to the backyard, opened the gate, and without taking another step, came out, picked up the phone, called General Adams and said, ?Jimmy Sabow shot himself in the mouth.?[15]

 
Interestingly, Mrs. Sabow only said that her husband was dead, not that he had shot himself in the mouth, or that he lay in the back yard.
 
?Yet, Underwood, without even asking, ran directly to the backyard and then confirmed the death from a distance of over 40 feet!? exclaims Sabow.... Now if you were standing right on top of my brother, you could not tell he was shot in the mouth, you could not. I have the photographs. How did Underwood know the exact nature of the wound? He was 30 yards away.... The photos prove that he couldn?t have determined that from that distance.?[16]
 
Underwood also claimed that he didn?t hear the shot, stating that he was watching TV with his wife. However Underwood?s wife had a brain tumor and was hypersensitive to sound, so the TV volume was always kept quite low.
  • Furthermore, there were ill-fitting horizontal Plexiglas louvered panels in the Underwood?s TV room which provide virtually no acoustical insulation. A shotgun blast is quite loud.

 
?These facts were totally disregarded,? says Sabow, ?not out of sheer ignorance, but because of a frightful and glaringly transparent government participation in a cover-up in the murder of Colonel Sabow!?
 
Nevertheless, the OIG would attempt to explain away this discrepancy, claiming that local air traffic muffled the noise. Yet records from air traffic control document that there were no departures between 8:30 and 9:00 that morning.
 
?Since it has been documented and conceded that the death occurred during that time frame,? explains Sabow, ?the explanation for the next door neighbor not hearing the blast is absurd.?[17]
 
Approximately one month after his brother?s death, Dr. Sabow confronted Underwood.
 
?He suspected that I wasn?t satisfied with the suicide theory and was being too inquisitive about the details,? says Sabow. ?When I inquired about Underwood?s activities while Albin was on the Sabow front porch, he became defensive and blurted out that he was not even in my brother?s house when Albin was knocking. I had never even remotely implied that he was!?

 
Approximately one week after Sabow?s death, NCIS Special Agent Craycraft visited Sally. According to Sally, the agent told her, ?I could swear it was Joe [Underwood]. I just can?t pin it on him.?
 
Also mentioned in the OIG (Office of Inspector General) report is a conversation Sally had with a woman (who?s name is redacted), who told her during a dinner at their home, ?I?ll deny I ever said this, but I want you to know that your husband was murdered.?
 
As the report states: ?When asked if XXX had told her who was responsible for the murder, she stated, ?She implied that it was Joe (Col. Underwood.)?[18]
 
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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Re: It is time to replay all seven hours of the Kay Griggs Interviews
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2008, 10:57:10 AM »
The Motive
 
Ultimately, Dr. Sabow believes his brother was killed to cover up the government?s drug-smuggling activities. His suspicions about Colonel Underwood would prove portentous.
 
?We developed information that implicates Underwood in an operation that involved the misappropriation of C-130 Hercules aircraft to small proprietary airlines,? says Sabow. ?These in turn were contracted to the CIA and other agencies for unauthorized activities such as the transportation of weapons to Central and South America, as well as bringing cocaine into the U.S. on their return trips.?

 
According to the OIG report:
 
?Mr. [Gene] Wheaton alleged that MCAS El Toro was being used in support of a legal covert activity that had been undertaken by a U.S. intelligence agency under the cover of a U.S. Department of Agriculture program named ?Screw Worm,? allegedly a program to eradicate the screw worm in Mexico. Mr. Wheaton also alleged that the covert operation was actually legitimately providing weapons, ammunition and other material to the Government of Peru in their struggle against guerrilla forces know as the ?Shining Path.? Mr. Wheaton further alleged that a number of individuals involved in this covert operation were concurrently conducting an illegal covert operation whereby they were smuggling additional weapons, ammunition and material to Peru. The individuals were allegedly selling the weapons, ammunition and material to the Shining Path as well as to the Government of Peru, for money and narcotics. The money and narcotics were then allegedly smuggled back into the United States and air dropped at remote locations on military installations in the western part of the United States.... Mr. Wheaton further alleged that this operation continued until approximately the time of Col. Sabow?s death.?[19]
 
Interestingly, General Tom Adams, El Torro?s base Commander, was the base Commander at Yuma, Arizona Marine Corps Air Station in the mid ?80?s at the time when several duffel bags full of cocaine were dropped ?by mistake? next to the runway. Sabow was Commander of the Third Marine Air Group stationed at Yuma during that time. This base was the very first secret National Programs Office (organizationally part of the NSA), set up in 1983 by Oliver North. According to CIA researcher Brian Downing Quig, ?NPOs are top security guarded by the CIA.?[20*]
 
The OIG report continues:
 
?Mr. Wheaton alleged that his investigation had developed witnesses who stated that during the period of time from 1989 to about the time of Col. Sabow?s death, C-130 aircraft landed at MCAS El Toro in the middle of the night, unannounced and unknown to anyone on the installation other than Col. Underwood. Mr. Wheaton told us that, according to his witnesses, the aircraft were unmarked or marked with logos of civilian companies, and were flown by nonmilitary type crews, i.e., long hair and bluejeans. The C-130s would go to a remote part of the airfield, described as ?Spook Corner,? where unidentified material and equipment was loaded or unloaded as part of the illegal covert operation or for some sort of servicing of the aircraft. The aircraft would then depart El Torro. Mr. Wheaton stated that he had MP witnesses who had provided testimony to this effect. Mr. Wheaton identified one such witness as Mr. Robinson, but he refused to identify any other member of the military who possessed knowledge of these alleged covert operations. Mr. Wheaton alleged that Mr. Robinson had informed him that Col. Underwood had directed the Provost Marshal, Capt. Betsy Harries, to keep all military policemen away from the unidentified aircraft while they were on the airfield.
 
?In our interview of Mr. Robinson, he stated that on one occasion he had gone to Col. Underwood?s office to brief him on an investigation and that Capt. Harries had accompanied him. During the conversation the topic of aircraft landing late at night came up and Col. Underwood told them ?Keep your ass off the airstrip at night. Leave those airplanes alone. Don?t go near them. Don?t worry about them....?[21*] (See Appendix)
 
A similar illegal operation, ?Operation Black Eagle? was the basis for what came to be known as the Iran-Contra affair. (The exposure of the sale of TOW missiles to Iran, a relatively minor event by comparison, was intended to divert the attention away from the government sanctioned drug-running.)[22]
 
Al Martin, a self-described former Naval officer, claims to have set up phony corporations for former Major General Richard Secord (a close associate of Ted Shackley and Tom Clines), through which wealthy right-wing donors could ?invest,? money funneled to the Contras. They would then write off the investment on a two-for-one basis.
 
Martin told the author via numerous interviews that he worked closely with Oliver North, Felix Rodriguez, Secord, and Jeb Bush (son of then-Vice President George Bush).
 
According to some in the foreign press, Jeb Bush and his Colombian-born wife are reportedly big in laundering dope proceeds overseas.[23]
 
The operation reportedly involved sophisticated electronics developed by NSA contractor E-Systems of Greenville, Texas. E-Systems, owned by Raytheon, allegedly developed sophisticated systems to create electronic ?holes? which would allow planes to cross the border without tripping aircraft warning systems. (See Chapter XX) E-Systems, a major intelligence contractor which allegedly has ?wet-teams? (assassination teams), was directed by former NSA Director and CIA Deputy Director Bobby Ray Inman.

 
Other facilities were reportedly located at Mena, Arkansas, Fire Lakes, Nevada, Joppa, Missouri, and Iron Mountain, Texas, some guarded by Wackenhut.
 
As researcher J. Orlin Grabbe writes:
 
?The monetary logistics of this operation were overseen in part by Vince Foster of the Rose Law Firm, using the financial software resources of Systematics, Jackson Stephen?s Little Rock software company. Vince Foster?s ?NSA connection? involved an extensive knowledge of the NPO?s management of the flow of men and materials, money and drugs.?
 
As one pilot told Grabbe: ?It was good money. They would pay $100,000 a flight. They would send out maybe eight planes at a time, and if only two of them got shot down, the operation would still be profitable. So there was some risk involved.?[24]
 
On February l9, l995, CBS ?60 Minutes? did a story on the illegal C-l30 acquisitions and some of the activities in which these planes were engaged, including the transportation of drugs. The producer of the show, David Fitzpatrick, attempted to interview the manager of Aero Union, a proprietary airline in Chico, CA which had received a C-l30 and a P3-A from the Air Museum at El Toro. Fitzpatrick was denied the interview and was then informed that the ?Justice? Department had ordered Aero Union to say nothing.
 
?There were 37 C-130s,? says Sabow. ?Then there were about eight P-3 Oriens and several helicopters. And all of these planes went through the Department of Agriculture, Forestry Division, into the hands of Hemet Aviation. Hemet has I think seven of them. And then a couple of them ended up in Grayville, Wyoming, There?s one up at Aero Union. I have the tail numbers of every one of them and know exactly where they all are - every one of them.
 
?El Torro was the seat of operations for the hiring and disposition of these contract airlines to transport weapons and materiel,? adds Sabow. ?That was at the time when these little proprietary airlines were being placed and provisioned to carry out activities previously undertaken by Air America. And our investigations show that General J.K. Davis was one of the main architects of this.?
 
While Sabow claims he has no definite proof, he makes some interesting observations.
 
?First of all, the C-130 aircraft swindle was hatched in the early ?80s when General Davis was the Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps (1983 to 1986). And that was at the height of the activity in Iran-Contra. And being part of Marine Air, he had to at least be aware of these plans if not an active participant. I have no proof but I have been told that during that period, he was a member of the Joint Special Operations subgroup which was tasked to develop and coordinate clandestine military activities which would have included the C-130 plan....?
 
At the time of his death, Colonel Sabow was Chief of Operations for Marine Corps Air, Western United States.
 
?I?m talking about entire Marine Air,? says Sabow. ?Being in the position he was in, he had to be involved in covert activities... had to be. However, my brother was aware and probably participating in what he considered ?on the table,? approved covert activities.?
 
Dr. Sabow claims his brother had meetings with Oliver North on at least on three occasions in the late 80s, after Iran-Contra broke. North was in charge of the Joint Special Operations subgroup supplying weapons to the Contras.
 
?My brother knew about the U.S. [illegally] supplying military materiel to the Latin Americans,? says Sabow. ?However he knew only about the north-to-south runs (weapons), but he found about the south-to-north runs (drugs), several days before he died.
 
?One of the brains behind this, in the field, was Colonel Underwood,? says Sabow. ?Underwood was a significant operative of this whole business. Underwood was actually more powerful than General Adams - much more powerful! We?ve traced him and his activities from 1980 all the way up to this. He came on board in covert activities in ?81-?82, and he became a friend of [former Panamanian President Manuel] Noriega, and was working, even back then with Noriega and others in South America, on a special assignment in the Marine Corps.[25]
 
?They used these people - the Ollie Norths and the Underwoods - kind of in the field, as tactical operatives. But as far as architects, as far as the brains in the operation it was people at the level of [George] Bush, [Ted] Shackley, Rob Owens, J.K. Davis....?
 
Underwood, however, had been formerly investigated by the NCIS for smuggling contraband into this country.
 
?What type of contraband?? says Sabow. ?That?s what we don?t know. After a 13 month investigation it was dropped. I looked at Underwood and said, ?Tell me, why was it dropped?? and he wouldn?t answer.?
 
In October of 1991, General Hollis Davison, the Inspector General for the Marine Corps, arrived at El Toro for the express purpose of closing down the illegal operation in a way that would give the least possible publicity to the Corps.
 
?They wanted Underwood out of there,? says Sabow. ?And they wanted him out of there quietly, because Underwood knew so damn much he could ruin the reputation of the Corps. He was forced to resign, and he just resigned with a full pension.?

 
General Davison also felt that it would be wise to have Colonel Sabow?s resignation because of his potential knowledge of the operation. Yet Underwood and his operatives became fearful that Sabow would not go quietly. As the situation worsened, Sabow made a decision to fight the allegations and informed Underwood as well as General Davis. Dr. Sabow said his brother was a protégé of Davis? going back almost 20 years.
 
?They were very close, professionally,? says Sabow. ?J.K. Davis was the last person my brother talked to the night before he died, for 63 minutes.... My brother told him that if they persisted in bringing charges against him for improper use of a military plane, my brother would demand a court-martial and tell it all. He wanted J.K. to ?call the bastards off.? He was literally telling J.K ?What in the hell do they think they are doing?! I?ve never done anything. What in the hell do you think they are doing???

 
Colonel Sabow made it quite clear that he did not intend to leave the Corps under any but the most honorable circumstances, even if it required him to expose what he was learning about the illegal activity taking place at El Toro. To dissuade Sabow, Davis and Underwood warned him that he would be implicated in those very same activities (a common silencing tactic).[26]
 
Colonel William Callahan (USMC, retired) a fellow pilot and long-time friend of Sabow?s, also believes the Colonel was murdered. According to the OIG report:
 
?Mr. Callahan alleged that during a visit to Col. Sabow?s house, Col. Underwood told Col. Sabow what had transpired over the previous years, citing several reasons that he believed put himself at risk. Col. Underwood then told Col. Sabow that the USMC considered Col. Sabow to be just as guilty as himself. ?It was at this time that Jim (Col. Sabow) knew he would not accept early retirement and his only choice was to clear his name and take his case to court martial.? According to Mr. Callahan, ?it was this decision that started the chain of events which lead [sic] to Jim?s death.?[27] (See Appendix)
 
On the evening of January 21, the day before Sabow was killed, Underwood visited him and pointed a finger in his face while screaming, red-faced, ?You will never take this to a court-marshal!?[28]
 
Less than 12 hours after the tense discussion with Davis and the heated warning by Underwood, Colonel Sabow was dead. Dr. Sabow believes the conversation with Davis was the catalyst for the Colonel?s death.
 
?I believe with all my heart that J.K. Davis was the one who ordered the death of my brother,? says Sabow.
 
Another link may come through Major-General Rich Herndon. Although probably not involved in the murder, Hernon was head of the 3rd Marine Air Group in Yuma, Arizona in late 1970s-early ?80s. Sabow was his Executive Officer.
 
In 1987 Herndon was Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps under General Al Gray. One of Gray?s immediate subordinates was Colonel George Griggs. As Grigg?s wife, Kay Pollard Griggs, told the author, ?Army General Carl Stiner, Marine General Jim Joy, General Charles Wilhelm, head of Marine Southern Command - part of Joint Special Operations Command, and my husband who worked under him at the State Department - they?re all Al Gray?s boys. They do the assassinations. Say if they?ve got someone who?s talking too much. Gray will say, ?We?ve got a problem....?

 
According to Griggs, Gray is heavily involved in drug-smuggling. Herndon was stationed in Panama - a key drug transshipment point - and had a key position with Special Operations (CIA), training death squads in Central America.
 
?They train assassins,? says Griggs. ?It?s called the Phoenix Program, but it involves mind-control.... It?s an old boy network, it?s an institution, and it?s run through the State Department....

 
As Griggs says, ?Herndon is one of Al Gray?s boys.?
 
Curiously, Herndon sent a condolence letter to Sabow?s widow, but according to Dr. Sabow it was a rather cold letter. Dr. Sabow feels it was strange because the two were very close. Yet, mirroring the bizarre behavior of Colonel Underwood, Herndon didn?t show up at the funeral (Underwood, Sabow?s ?friend? and next door neighbor, didn?t show up at the bereavement.)
 
Interestingly, at approximately 9:00 am on the morning of the 22nd, a message from Headquarters, El Toro, was transmitted to Marine Headquarters, Washington, DC, informing them that Colonel Sabow had committed suicide. The message was transmitted using the standard AUTODIN operating system and SARALITE software, which dates and times the message automatically. For worldwide standardization purposes, ZULU (zero longitude or Greenwich Mean Time) time is used. Yet when the message was corrected to Pacific Standard Time by subtracting eight hours from the ZULU time, it indicates that the message was begun at 11:45 pm on the 21st, over eight-and-a-half hours before Colonel Sabow was killed!
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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Re: It is time to replay all seven hours of the Kay Griggs Interviews
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2008, 10:57:45 AM »
Other Victims
 
On January 12, 1991, Inspector General Hollis Davison?s team visited El Toro.
  • The first place they went was to Building 53 - the records department. They ordered Sergeant Felix Segovia to access the command staff computers. Segovia assigned this task to Sergeant Tom Wade, his networking specialist. When Wade accessed the MWR computers, he discovered that they were completely ?purged.? There was absolutely nothing in their memory, not even a program!

 
?General Adams also suspected trouble when the IG requested certain documents on Underwood,? says Sabow. ?When the IG kept requesting more and more, Adams knew that there was trouble brewing and he realized that he likewise was vulnerable. That?s why Adams ordered Segovia to rid all documents from the MWR computer which contained the trail of the covert activities.... After Davison found the computer at MWR purged, he went ballistic.?
 
The MWR (Morale, Welfare and Recreation) Department was in charge of all civilian contracts, including the appropriation of civilian aircraft, the maintenance and fueling records, the overseeing of the ?air museum? (As previously mentioned, the El Toro Air Museum supplied a C-130 and a P3-A to Aero Union in Chico, CA) and all activities on the base which required civilian participation.[29*]
 
As Dr. Sabow?s investigation turned from the murder of his brother into the criminal activities at El Toro, people who could expose the cover-up began dying.
 
Arriving home from church services on Christmas Day, l994, Sergeant Tom Wade was dragged from his car as his four-year old daughter watched, then shot in the head, execution style. The girl spent the night whimpering in the car.
 
Even though the killing occurred off-base in a civilian apartment complex, the Marines cordoned off Wade?s apartment, not allowing the local police to investigate. The County Sheriff informed Gene Wheaton (who was working for Dr. Sabow) that the Marines sealed Wade?s apartment before local law enforcement agencies could conduct their investigation, on the grounds of ?national security.? Wade?s death remains a mystery.

 
On February 24, l995, five days after ?60 Minutes? did a story on the illegal C-l30 acquisitions, Colonel Jerry Agenbroad was found hanging in the Bachelor Officers Quarters at El Toro. He was in charge of MWR at the time of his death and at one time headed the air museum.
 
A source of Dr. Sabow?s whom he calls ?Kevin,? retired from the Marines in the summer of l994. On July l7, l993, he was with his wife at the home of some friends having dinner when ?Eye To Eye? with Connie Chung appeared on TV. It was the show?s premier and included the segment on the death of Colonel Sabow, including information about C-l30s ferrying drugs onto military bases. The group watching the program couldn?t believe what they were seeing. Kevin assured them that what they saw was factual as he, himself, had been taken to Mexico with several other Marines and were ordered to load vast quantities of cocaine onto planes. They were told that the drugs would be used for ?sting operations? (a common cover-story given to military personnel) and as evidence. They were forbidden to discuss the matter.
 
?That information was passed on to me by the couple who were with Kevin viewing the program,? says Sabow. ?I tried unsuccessfully to interview him before he left the Corps. I was finally able to track him down, but again he resisted my efforts to meet with him. He was literally worried for his life.?
 
In the spring of l994, Dr. Sabow passed some of this information to Larry Swails, a special investigator for the DoD, giving only the first name of his Marine source. But Sabow did tell Swails the name of the small rural town where he lived.

 
?I had that telephone conversation with Swails on May l8, l994,? says Sabow. ?I then contacted my sources to find out where Kevin worked and if we could obtain his unlisted phone number.?
 
Five days later, on May 23, Sabow?s source informed him that he had obtained the information, but that Kevin was dead. He was found hanging from a rafter in his parent?s barn, in a manner similar to Colonel Agenbroad, on Sunday morning, May 22.
 
No investigation was ever conducted.[30]
 
Another of Dr. Sabow?s sources was an active duty Marine sergeant at Camp Pendelton. In the Spring of ?98, he was on his way to hand over the flight manifest of the mysterious helicopter which reportedly delivered Colonel Sabow?s assassins, to Dr. Sabow. On his way to Sabow?s house, he was run off the road and killed. Another person in the car was injured.[31]
 
In late l99l, Jack Chisom, a co-owner of T&G Aviation, which supplied two C-l30s and two DC-7s for the clandestine operations, was found dead in an irrigation ditch in the Arizona desert. His death was attributed to a hit-and-run driver.
 
?There was no reason for this 60-plus year-old man to be out in the desert in the middle of the night,? says Sabow. ?He knew too much.?
 
Chuck Hendricks and Bob Weldon, crew members on a C-l30, were killed in Angola when their plane crashed. The plane was registered to St. Lucia Airline which was formed by Oliver North and Ted Shackley. The cargo included small arms and other weapons. Hendricks was from Mena, Arkansas.[32]
 
The Silenced
 
Sergeant Felix Segovia, who was in charge of the records center at El Torro, discovered that wholesale theft of computers and support equipment had occurred. He was told that it was none of his business and to forget what he had seen. He refused to drop the matter and continued to gather evidence, including the names of those responsible. In early 1994 he filed a complaint to the Fraud and Abuse officer at El Toro.
 
Sergeant Segovia was court-martialed - accused of falsifying his personnel records. Segovia had taken a computer course in his first year in the service and had misplaced his course completion papers. After 20 years of service in the Marine Corps, Segovia was charged with lying about taking the course. Segovia had been a close friend of Tom Wade?s.
 
Sergeant Randy Robinson was the MP who was one of the first to arrive at the scene of Colonel Sabow?s death, and had stated: ?This isn?t a suicide, it?s a murder.? Robinson also witnessed the crime scene tampering. (He had seen a chair placed over Colonel Sabow?s buttocks when it was actually two or three feet away and not in contact with him at all. He also found ammunition neatly stowed in a cabinet, then saw it photographed on the garage floor as if that was where it was discovered.)
 
In April of l99l, only two months after Sabow?s murder, Robinson was arrested by the Provost Marshall and charged with raping the mother of a battered child who was under investigation.
 
?The entire matter was bizarre, according to Captain Anthony Verducci from the JAG office,? says Sabow. ?The alleged victim never filed a complaint before Robinson?s arrest and never testified in court against him.?
 
The charges were filed by a Sergeant Onge who Sabow claims ?had a dubious reputation? and since has left the Corps. Robinson, an investigator with 16 years of experience who has investigated over 50 shootings, was found guilty of the lesser charge of ?adultery? and served a six month sentence in the Camp Pendelton brig.
 
Colonel Archibald Scott (U.S. Army, ret.) was in Colonel Underwood?s house on the afternoon of January 2l, just 18 hours before Colonel Sabow was killed. The two had just finished a game of golf, and retired to Underwood?s house for a drink, when Jimmy Sabow arrived. As the OIG report states:
 
?During the conversation in Col. Underwood?s house, Col. Sabow had informed Col. Underwood that he was going to demand a court martial. Col. Underwood replied that Col. Sabow would be making a mistake.... Mr. Scott said he and Col. Sabow left after about an hour, and during the walk from Col. Underwood?s house, Col. Sabow told Mr. Scott that he was concerned about something that was ?frightening and irritating,? but would not say what it was....?[33] (See Appendix)
 
According the version provided by David Sabow, Scott heard Sabow state, ?Quitters never win, and winners never quit.? He also allegedly told Gene Wheaton: ?Jimmy never killed himself, and I think Underwood did it.?
 
A highly decorated officer, Scott was charged with ?impersonating an officer? less then two months after Sabow?s death. Colonel Lucas, the Staff Judge Advocate who participated in the cover-up, ordered his department to file the charges. Rather than being forced out of the Army, Scott chose to finish his 20 years of service at the reduced rank of sergeant, denying him the privileges afforded by his rank. His case was tried in federal court where he lost, but the decision was reversed on appeal in l994.
 
Both the Provost Marshall, Major Goodrow and his deputy, Captain Forquer, the first ones at the crime scene, were ?short-termed? - given new assignments far away.
 
?This is a most unusual occurrence,? says Sabow, ?especially when it involved the two Marine police officers who were the first at the crime scene.?
 
Captain Leslie Williams, who had worked for and admired Colonel Sabow, was extremely critical of the accusations against him, and made her feelings known. In spite of high ratings given her performance, she was ?passed over? for promotion and forced to resign.
 
Another who had cast a suspicious eye on the circumstances of Colonel Sabow?s death was Pete Barbee. A courageous ex-Marine, Barbee knew that his idol did not commit suicide, and devoted much of his time to apprehending the killers. Believing the murder to be related to drug trafficking, his search proceeded in that direction. In the process, he was attacked by a known vicious drug dealer, Rudy Garza, and in self-defense killed him. He was charged with 2nd degree manslaughter for using ?excessive force,? and received a one-and-a-half year prison sentence.
 
Pete Barbee and the Drug Connection
by Gary Null (edited for length)
 
During this time, Colonel Sabow became aware of drugs on the base. He and his staff decided to use undercover methods to find out how the drugs were getting there. Somebody recommended [Marine Captain Pete] Barbee, who, as a Mustang, had rapport with the troops. In the latter part of 1987, Colonel Sabow contacted Barbee and discussed his concern about drug trafficking within the El Toro and Tustin bases....
 
After much research, Barbee discovered chemicals used to make methamphetamine were being sold.... Barbee learned that the chemicals red phosphorus and P2, a bluish liquid used for cleaning ships and aircraft for quality control, were being removed from the military stockpile and transferred through DRMO, the Defense Regional Management Office, and several NIS agents....
 
In 1993, Barbee moved to Fontana, close to Waters? Country store, the center of massive and open drug dealing. Twelve to twenty drug dealers worked there seven days-a-week, and he could not understand why they were dealing so openly, and why nothing was being done to stop them. There were no drug busts made, and no police monitoring them. Yet everything from heroin to cocaine, speed, and pot were being sold and bringing in easily $50,000 to $70,000 a week.
 
Barbee became too visible. On the night of November 10, 1993, he was kidnapped, drugged, and left for dead in Ventura County. Several underlings who worked for drug lords Carlos Segura, Rudy Garza, and Augustine were responsible. They were major dealers and providers at Waters? Country Store.
 
Barbee was discovered by the police, and after a short stay in the emergency room was taken to jail on drug charges. After getting out of jail, he obtained a gun, and continued his search. He slowly gathered more knowledge on why and how these dealers were allowed to operate with such impunity. He discovered a great deal of corruption....
 
Barbee worked with the [Ventura] Sheriff?s Office for approximately three months, during which time he denied the drug dealers access, moved things around so that they weren?t familiar with their territory, and gave the Sheriff?s Department information about types of drugs and drug deals being made.
 
At the end of three months, a big raid took place, and the drug dealers were gone. Once they found out that Barbee had a lot of information, and that he was passing it along, Garza and Augustine saw to it that Barbee was badly beaten. This happened more than once. Guns were pulled on him, his head was cracked, and his nose was crushed.
 
After recovering, Barbee continued working.... On August 29, 1994, Garza attacked Barbee with a knife at his place of business... Barbee shot him four times in the head.
 
Several witnesses saw what Garza had done. Others heard Garza?s threats to kill Barbee. Unfortunately, the Sheriff chose to ignore witnesses. They also ignored reports by emergency medical technicians who found Garza lying on the pavement, knife in hand. Barbee was arrested that night for first-degree murder, which shocked several police officers who had been working with him.
 
Barbee subsequently identified the District Attorney in the Fontana Court as someone he frequently saw with Garza at Waters? Country Store. He told the Sheriff?s investigator, and co-defender investigator this information. They informed Barbee that they were doing an investigation into the prosecuting DA. They said that the situation would be worked out and that it would not be a problem - this was strictly a case of self-defense....
 
While in jail, Barbee was threatened and beaten. He was told he would be killed in jail. At one point, Barbee was moved from his cell block to another one, right next to Rudy Garza?s cousin, Eddie. Like his cousin, Eddie Garza was involved in a great deal of violence and drug trafficking....
 
Dr. Sabow informed Jim Willworth, an investigative reporter for Time magazine, about Barbee, and he subsequently interviewed him in depth several times. Willworth later told Dr. Sabow, ?I?ve done this business for 28 years. This man is legitimate.? After Jim Willworth?s interview, the prosecution changed the charge against Barbee from first-degree murder to manslaughter....
 
Barbee... actually gave the information to the Sheriff?s Department, and they were supposed to have turned it over to other authorities, including the DEA. But nothing has been passed along. Also of interest is the fact that Barbee was interviewed by the FBI months ago, and has heard nothing from them since that time.
 
Some say that Barbee was arrested because of his insight into Colonel Sabow?s death and his knowledge of covert government operations. Not surprisingly, Barbee fears for his life. ?There is a lot of corruption here in Fontana,? he says. ?I am going up against a DA who has prostituted his position, and a judge who has prostituted his. The judge has eliminated evidence, and has lied about it. I am scared. I fear for my life, and my wife fears for hers. She has had to move. I need help, and I just pray that I can get it.?[34]
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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Re: It is time to replay all seven hours of the Kay Griggs Interviews
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2008, 10:58:28 AM »

Epilogue
 
Colonel Underwood was forced to retire, with a full pension.
 
?You know what he?s doing now?? says Sabow, he?s working for Ted Shackley! We know this because we?ve had a tail on him for a long time. He?s highly guarded, and he travels to Europe an awful lot, mostly to Germany.
 
?He?s presently working for a subsidiary of Continental Shelf Corporation, run by Shackley, in Jupiter, Florida. Continental Shelf is the ?maritime? arm of the CIA. It?s headed by Shackley and that whole group from the CIA - old, ex-CIA people.

 
?This man (Underwood), who was broke when he left the Marine Corps, is fairly well-to-do now. He?s had several houses, several Volvos... he went from literally nothing financially to something fairly solid.
 
Interestingly, Underwood had been stationed in Panama at the time he was accused of smuggling somewhere between $300,000 and $400,000 worth of contraband into this country. The NCIS conducted a 10-month investigation of Underwood and then suddenly dropped it for unknown reasons.
 
General Adams was sent to Quantico and ultimately allowed to retire with less than a slap on the wrist. This infuriated General Davison, who confronted General Cook, the commander of Quantico.
 
?It got nasty and Cook had to get his Provost Marshall and MPs,? says Sabow. ?Davison was physically escorted off the base. I feel that Davison knew even back then that Adams was in on the death. He became unglued when he learned that Adams was literally ?getting away with murder.??[35]
 
Dr. Sabow continues to seek justice for the murder of his brother through a civil lawsuit. He believes he is not alone in wanting justice to be served. ?There?s a certain group in the Marine Corps that wants me to pull this off,? concludes Sabow, ?very high people.?
 
As Sabow adds, ?This whole outfit, the Criminal Division of the Justice Department, still worries that I am going to pull this whole thing off - the investigation of the murder of my brother. If I do that, then the finger gets pointed right back at the Department of Agriculture. And it will also be pointed right back at the Justice Department that was supposed to follow through with Fuchs and Regan (the two Agriculture Department patsies who took the fall for the C-130 scam) and others in the stealing of the C-130s.?

 
In spite of his brother?s murder, and his own relentless investigation, Sabow feels that he is in no immediate danger.
 
?Now it?s too late for them to do it to me.... In fact - and they know I have it - I have the video of the entire investigation. They are scared shitless.?

 
Postscript
 
Judge Alice Marie Stotler, a Reagan/Bush appointee who Dr. Sabow called a ?heartless? woman and a ?pawn,? would not allow critical evidence and witnesses to be entered at the Sabows? civil trial. Yet Stotler summarily dismissed the case in the middle of the trial, as soon as General Adams was called to the witness stand! Although Sabow testified that his brother was murdered, Stotler ruled that he had not proved that the defendants acted outrageously.
 
Senator Tom Daschle is currently working with Sabow. His plan is to request a special Senate inquiry and a meeting with Janet Reno and Louis Free in the hopes of obtaining a federal grand jury investigation.[36]
 
  • Another military pilot and CIA operative, Gunther Russbacher, would be charged with a similar offense in an effort to silence him. Russbacher was involved in many CIA covert operations, including ?October Surprise? (See Chapter XX)
  • In fact, no investigation of Colonel Sabow would ever be conducted.
  • [1]. Eric Lichtblau, ?Marine?s Vindication is his Family?s Crusade,? Los Angeles Times, 12/11/91.
     
  • As McBride writes: ?I offer this observation within the context of having represented one high-ranking officer, a lieutenant colonel, who did display an extreme reaction to being accused of misconduct. This lieutenant colonel would shout and weep uncontrollably, bang his head on the wall, and scream, ?I can?t take this much longer. Can?t they see that they?re killing me!? I am not a psychologist. I can only offer that I considered the lieutenant colonel a serious threat to kill himself (he didn?t). I did not consider Colonel Sabow in that category.... No comments were made... which indicated to me that his frame of mind was desperate.? (Letter from Cpt. Paul T. McBride to NCIS, 1/28/91, copy in author?s possession.)
  • [2]. Autopsy of James Emery Sabow, Orange County Sheriff-Coroner, Dr. Aruna Singhania, Case No: 91-00474-SU, 1/23/91, copy in author?s possession.
     
  • The NCIS case officer, Cheryl Baldwin, also observed the swelling and testified to this in an interview with the Judge Advocate General. Mrs. Sabow also described this same swelling when she was interviewed by the NCIS. Furthermore, the crime scene and coroner?s photographs clearly show an orange-size bulge on the occiput lobe. Yet Dr. Sabow was told by NCIS forensic specialist Burt Nakasone and Mike Barrett, that there was no sign whatsoever, of external trauma.
  • [3]. Letter from Dr. David Rubinstein to Dr. David Sabow, 3/21/96, copy in author?s possession
     
    [4]. Letter from Dr. Martin L. Fackler to Dr. David Sabow, 6/16/94, copy in author?s possession; Rubinstein, Op. Cit., Letter from Dr. Kent B. Remley to Dr. David Sabow, 4/2/96. Dr. Jack Feldman, widely recognized as the world?s leading authority on the brain control of respiration, states in greater detail, ?Colonel Sabow must have received a severe blow to the head, rendering him unconscious but still breathing for several minutes, and then he was shot.?
     
    [5]. Fackler, Op. Cit.
     
    [6]. Matthew Brelis and Mary Kurkjian, Boston Globe, 6/10/97. X-rays of Sabow?s skull showed ?an external blunt force trauma that caved in his skull and there are no pellets anywhere in the area,? said Dr. Sabow.
     
  • ?Because of litigation, we are not in a position to comment,? said Cole Hanner, spokesman for the NCIS. Asked about the lack of fingerprints on the gun or shell casings, an NCIS official familiar with the case said: ?I can?t explain that.? (Boston Globe, 6/10/97)
  • [7]. Fackler, Op. Cit.
     
  • See Appendix.
  • Colonel Lucas ordered Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Verducci to write a JAGMAN report - a non-criminal investigation, concurrent with the NCIS report. As Verducci writes in a letter to Dr. Sabow: ?He (Lucas) made it clear that I was not to investigate the matters that the IG had investigated. He told me that the family had endured enough pain and that they should be spared any additional allegations and investigations. Colonel Lucas reminded me that NCIS was conducting the criminal investigation, and told me I should be able to satisfy the requirements of the JAGMAN without bothering the family or waiting for a complete NCIS investigation.? Verducci added that he thought ?that Colonel Sabow did not die of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.? (letter of Lt. Col. Anthony J. Verducci, USMC, 3/25/99, copy in author?s possession.)
  • [8]. James Beissner was the Orange County Coroner. Dr. Arvna Singhania conducted the autopsy.
     
  • The Orange County Coroner?s Office is under the supervision of the County Sheriff, which prohibited the Deputy Coroner Jim Beisner from reopening the investigation. ?Just this past spring, I was told by the Assistant DA in charge of violent crimes for Orange County that my evidence proved that Colonel Sabow?s was ?highly suspicious,?? said Dr. Sabow. ?His detective pointed to the grand jury chambers in my presence and told me that I would be spending a great deal of time in that room.? But several days later, Assistant DA Mike Jacobs told Sabow that Sheriff Gates said, ?Under no circumstances, whatsoever, will there be any further investigation of the death of Colonel Sabow.?
  • According to Dr. Sabow, a Navy Pathologist was available at Balboa Naval hospital in San Diego, only one hour away by car or a few minutes by helicopter. Not that it would have made a difference. The AFIP played its own role in covering up the murder of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
  • [9]. ?The Orange County Coroner?s office supposedly has an arrangement with El Toro,? says Sabow. ?However, this does not allow them to perform an autopsy on an active duty serviceman who died on government property.?
     
    [10]. Dr. John David Sabow, interview with author. All quotes, interview with author.
     
  • FBI Agents Bill Grode and Fred Collins of the north central FBI district in Minneapolis sent a report on the case to Washington. Sabow subsequently learned that from Washington it had been referred to the Los Angeles FBI bureau but that ?it was too hot to handle? and sent back to Washington.... Dr. Sabow wrote a letter to the director of the FBI after not hearing anything for several months. The letter was detailed, and filled with hard evidence. A week or two later, Dr. Sabow received a letter from the Congressional liaison and public affairs officer for the FBI, a man by the name of Collingwood, stating, in essence, that the FBI had already conducted investigations into the matter in 1993, and had found absolutely no evidence of foul play. They were sorry that his brother was dead, but it was over. The FBI didn?t want any part of it. (Gary Null, ?The Strange Death of Colonel Sabow,? Pacifica Radio Network, no date provided.)
  • [11]. Sara Sabow, et. al. v. United States of America, case no. 94-56634, D.C. No. CV-93-00991-AHS.
     
  • Unable by law to sue for wrongful death, the Sabows tried to sue the U.S. Government for emotional distress resulting from mis-handling of the investigation and the family?s subsequent treatment. The case was dismissed. On appeal, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit found the investigation had ?alarming instances of poor judgment and a general disregard for sound investigative procedures.? Although the court ruled that officials did not violate any regulations regarding death investigations, the court did say the meeting with General Adams and the attempt to investigate Dr. Sabow resulted in ?intentional infliction of emotional distress? and ruled that part of the suit could proceed.
  • [12]. Dr. David Sabow, interview with author; Notes from Colonel Wayne Rich, copy in author?s possession.
     
  • According to Dr. Sabow, Colonel Rich admitted, under oath, in the presence of the U.S. Attorney, to writing the notes.
  • [13]. Memo from General Ben W. T. Adams to Lt. Poague, 5/17/91, copy in author?s possession.
     
  • Colonel Verducci, a JAG officer at the time of the murder, has said on record that Colonel Sabow was murdered. He was assigned by Colonel Lucas to do the first JAGMAN (Judge Advocate General Manual) investigation in the death. Verducci stated that after he was assigned to conduct the re-investigation by the Commanding General, Drax Williams, Colonel Walker in the JAG office gave him a yellow-pad that was compiled by Colonel Lange containing a list of items which were to be the official findings of the re-investigation. Verducci refused to be a part of this scheme. Consequently, he was relieved of the responsibility of conducting the investigation. As Verducci states, ?This was nothing more than me reviewing the death certificate stating the name, age and address of Colonel Sabow, much like you would quote in a newspaper obituary.? He was told not to wait for any of the criminal material from NCIS.
  • Dr. Sabow never did find out from Baldwin the identity of the three men. Said Sabow: ?Baldwin won?t talk. She is scared out of her mind.?
  • They also put a chair underneath Colonel Sabow to say that he was sitting in the chair when he supposedly shot himself. Yet Robinson has testified that chair was nowhere near there. Robinson also stated that he had witnessed the ammunition neatly packaged and stored in a cabinet in the garage, yet it was subsequently photographed on the floor, loosely, to make it appear that the ammunition was found in the middle of the floor for all to see.
  • ?Mysteriously, the one who placed this final call to Colonel Sabow has never acknowledged making that call,? said Sabow. ?That call was made just minutes before Colonel Sabow died and consequently identification of the caller was of the utmost importance. All other calls made to Sabow earlier that morning have been identified.?
  • This is a hypothetical version of events according to Dr. Sabow. In addition, the blow was so violent that it caused a massive depressed occipital bone fracture that penetrated into the back of Sabow?s brain. This evidence is seen on the x-rays taken at the Orange County Coroner?s office but which have been denied by all involved in the cover-up. The NCIS case officer, Cheryl Baldwin, also observed this swelling at the back of the head and testified to this in an interview with JAG officer Colonel Pearcy. Yet, the official reports of the NCIS, the JAGMAN investigation, and the autopsy, state that there was no sign of external trauma.
  • Underwood was the only one except for family who knew where the guns were kept. Underwood told Dr. Sabow that he helped his brother carry them from the garage where they previously were stored to Colonel Sabow?s son?s bedroom for safe-keeping. Underwood helped Sabow carry several guns from the garage to the bedroom after suggesting that the guns could easily be stolen from the garage. Shortly before the funeral, Underwood told both of Colonel Sabow?s brothers about helping Sabow put the guns in the bedroom. In spite of this conversation, when he was interviewed at the crime scene by an NCIS agent, Underwood stated that he had no knowledge that Sabow even owned a shotgun!
  • [14]. Underwood never went to Sabow?s house other than through the gate in the backyard. This would have been especially true when Underwood stated that he was carrying a cup of coffee to have with Sabow, for Underwood?s kitchen is in the back of his house, only a short distance from the backyard gate.
     
  • After Sally burst into the Underwood house announcing Sabow?s death, Jean, Underwood?s wife, screamed, ?Joe, this has gone too far!?
  • [15]. Underwood stated this under oath.
     
    [16]. A sworn statement of General Adams states that Underwood announced to him that Sabow killed himself by ?shooting himself in the mouth.? However, Underwood testified to the NCIS that he never got closer to the body than approximately 30 to 40 feet before he returned to his house to call General Adams.
     
  • Underwood told Dr. Sabow that his wife was having epileptic seizures throughout the morning of Colonel Sabow?s death. Yet, he told the NCIS that he was watching television with her when sally burst into his house.
  • [17]. The official tower records show that there were no plane take-offs from 8:32 a.m. until 9:03 a.m. Several landings occurred but all on the north runway several miles distant. Therefore, plane noise could not have muffled the shotgun blast.
     
  • Immediately following the funeral, Underwood disappeared and did not attend the gathering of the family and close friends, a rather odd occurrence for a ?close friend? and next door neighbor.
  • [18]. ?Review of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service Investigation into the Death of Colonel James Emery Sabow, United States Marine Corps,? Office of the Inspector General, Department of Defense, 6/5/96, p. 23, copy in author?s possession. According to the OIG report, Craycraft denied making this statement.
     
  • According to Dr. Sabow?s sources, C-130 simulators were being used at El Torro to train civilian pilots.
  • [19]. Ibid., p. 24.
     
    [20]. Brian Downing Quig, e-mail to author.
     
  • Former DEA agent Celerino Castillo, along with Dave Harmon, gave the following account in their 1994 book, Powder Burns: Cocaine, Contras and the Drug War: ?... every pilot had his own preferred technique for getting his illegal payload to U.S. soil. Some liked the John Wayne approach, flashing their CIA credentials at Florida airfields and unloading the drugs in plain view. Those who wanted to maintain a lower profile shipped the kilos out in innocuous cargoes like towels, seafood, frozen vegetables or auto parts. Many landed at military bases around the United States, knowing no one would inspect a Contra plane....? As former Contra pilot Michael Tolliver states, in March 1986 he flew 28,000 pounds of weapons to Honduras and returned to Florida with 25,360 pounds of marihuana, which were flown directly to Homestead Air Force Base, where they were unloaded and he was paid $75,000 cash.
  • [21]. OIG report, p. 24.
     
  • According to the OIG report, Harries would later deny this, and control tower personal, and emergency fire and rescue personnel would deny any knowledge of the landings.
  • [22]. Israeli agents are the ones who broke the story of the Iran-Contra scandal in the Lebanese newspaper Al-Shiraa, as a retaliation against Bush for betraying Israel to Iraq. It is also the Israelis who witnessed arms deals, including the transfer of INSLAW?s PROMIS software, in a Chilean meeting.
     
    [23]. ?FBI Muzzling Witnesses to Aid Clinton and Bush Family - The Big Purge in Chicago,? Sherman Skolnick?s Report, 1999.
     
  • Interestingly, when this author and his attorney, Mike Johnson, began investigating allegations of drug smuggling, fraud and murder by E-Systems, Johnston?s office was broken into - twice. The perpetrators left him a tape recording with his voice dubbed into a conversation with two unidentified men. Johnston feels the message was: ?Hey, we?ve got you on a wire statute violation, and if you don?t back off, we?ll take you down.? Two weeks later, as I was about to drive to Dallas to meet with an E-Systems whistle blower - Winfred Richardson, a former employee - all four of my tires were slashed. Richardson told me that two other persons connected with the case had their tires slashed in a similar way. E-Systems, possibly in conjunction with the NSA, has also been intercepting and rerouting my e-mail.
  • [24]. J. Orlin Grabbe, ?Allegations Regarding Vince Foster, the NSA, and Banking Transactions Spying, Part XXX,? posted on Internet, no date provided; Al Martin, interviews with author.
     
    [25]. Underwood was a Lt. Colonel at the time.
     
  • Underwood?s office was subsequently broken into by the Inspector General?s staff in an attempt to secure documents outlining the extent of the unauthorized clandestine criminal activity.
  • According to Sabow, Davis admitted that the conversation took place.
  • [26]. Underwood informed Sabow of some of these activities on Sunday, January 13, 1991.
     
    [27]. OIG report, p. 27.
     
    [28]. Statement of Sally Sabow.
     
  • According to Griggs, Steiner, Linda Tripp?s boss, was the head of the JFK assassin school (a nickname). Joy was with the Delta Force, and according to Griggs, trained the operatives that went into Waco and were involved in abducting Panamanian President Manuel Noriega.
  • Grigg?s may be confusing the Phoenix Program with the assassinations run by the military and CIA in Vietnam, that was responsible for almost 40,000 murders of non-combatants. Most likely, the Phoenix Program she describes is an off-shoot of that program.
  • ?We learned only relatively recently that [Davison] wore two hats,? says Sabow. ?One hat was in the role of the IG for the Corps. The other was in ?intelligence.? Davison suspected that Colonel Sabow was murdered and returned to El Toro in February, a few weeks after the assassination. We don?t know the results of that visit. After I gave information to the LA Times regarding Adams which hit the front pages, Davison returned a third time. This was in May.
  • [29]. Ace Hayes, ?Colonel Sabow Murder and Cover-Up,? Portland Free Press, July-October, 1996; David Sabow, interview with author. According to Lt. Col. Craig Roberts, retired Army officer, former Marine and noted investigative journalist: ?The Navy and Marines have a section on each base that deals with the morale, welfare and recreation of the personnel and families. It used to be called ?Special Services,? where you could check out sports equipment or play games, pool, etc. It has expanded and now personnel are assigned to maintain a facility, organize events, meetings, and handle all recreational or civilian related activities. The Morale Officer is a regular officer with other duties that has this as an additional duty assignment.?
     
  • Colonel Ron Fix was in charge of this department and, among other duties, was in charge of letting all civilian contracts, including those for proprietary airlines. He also was capable of making the arrangements for acquisitions and dispersal of planes through the base air museum.
  • Wheaton claims he was approached by CIA Deputy Director of Operations Carl Jenkins to help set up dummy airlines which would later be used for drug and weapons smuggling. Rep. Bill McCollum (FL), a long-time friend of CIA DCI William Casey, was also implicated in this operation.
  • On October 22, 1994, Swails and his assistant, Nancy Sundervan, came to Sabow?s home. The investigators immediately started questioning Sabow about his knowledge of covert activities and his sources of documentation. Their questions were direct: Who are your sources? Who supplied you with information from headquarters? Sabow insisted on going over the evidence point by point, and the two so-called investigators continued to resist. They were not open to any evidence that did not support their point of view. The two were particularly disturbed by statements and autopsy photos regarding a large lump on the back of Colonel Sabow?s head, and by the idea that it was not likely that a person would hit himself over the head before shooting himself. According to David, whenever such an inconsistency arose, the two would ignore it, change the topic, or offer to show it to the FBI. At one point during the interview the investigators actually said that they were not going to consider any evidence that was not pointing toward suicide. After Swails and Sundervan left, Judge [Marshall] Young (who sat in on the meeting) told David that ?I have never seen anything in my life like this, and I?ve been on the bench for over 30 years. I have never seen a capital crime proved so conclusively. You have proved murder in spades.? He went on to say, ?But I want you to know, you?re dealing with evil people. And you make one grave mistake. You have faith in the judicial system. I don?t.? Three or four days after the meeting, Gene Wheaton called Larry Swails to find out how the Rapid City investigation went. Gene had known Larry years before when he was a criminal investigator for the army. Swails answered that the meeting was ?an absolute waste of time. All Dr. Sabow wanted to talk about was the investigation of his brother?s murder. He didn?t want to say anything about covert activities.? (Gary Null, ?The Strange Death of Colonel Sabow,? Pacifica Radio Network, no date provided.)
  • [30]. Ace Hayes, ?Colonel Sabow Murder and Cover-Up,? Portland Free Press, July-October, 1996; David Sabow, interview with author.
     
    [31]. Dr. David Sabow, interview with author.
     
    [32]. Weldon is the nephew of Congressman Curt Weldon of Pennsylvania.
     
    [33]. OIG report, p. 28.
     
    [34]. Gary Null, ?The Strange Death of Colonel Sabow,? Pacifica Radio Network, no date provided.
     
  • Shackley is the retired CIA Miami Station Chief and a past Deputy director of Operations for the CIA.
  • [35]. Davison?s statement according to a witness at the scene.
     
  • In U.S. v. Roy Regan, Tucson (1998) former CIA pilot and special independent counsel Gary Eitel testified that CIA was flying drugs into Mena, AR as far back as 1972.
  • The NCIS video of the crime scene investigation. ?The video obviously did not capture the THREE but it showed the NCIS Forensic ?expert? contaminating the hands of Colonel Sabow,? says Sabow. ?After extracting the spent shell from the shotgun He grabbed Colonel Sabow's hand without changing his gloves, then he swabbed the hand for residue.?
  • [36]. Gary Null, ?The Strange Death of Colonel Sabow,? Pacifica Radio Network, no date provided.
     
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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The Fall of Norfolk
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2008, 11:01:15 AM »
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/TheFall5.htm

THE FALL OF NORFOLK


( Note – This was sent to Kent Steadman’s site, Orbit, after there
was some discussion of Secretary of War Stimson’s decision to use
the atomic bomb. I have maintained that international secret agreements
concerning non use of nuclear weapons form the essential glue to a
secret world government. This is something that I saw develop as a child
while my Father worked for Time Magazine. I have slightly altered the
copy deleting names of those who are not public figures. The letter was
originally asked for by a former employer, a very wonderful owner of a
Norfolk Cab company who I will change to Dr. O. There is a portion where
I kid him and make the common group mind responsible for some situations.
This was a joke he would understand and perhaps not an outside reader. The
letter, though specific to the security apparatus in Norfolk, Virginia-,
largest military center in the world,- also gives a good overall world
security picture. I thank Kent Steadman for posting this.
Michael Donovan, Camden ME, michael1@midcoast.com.)

        Letter from Michael Donovan to owner of a Norfolk
        cab company, summer of 2003

        Dear Dr. O,

   After reading my response to William Safire regarding the
then proposed invasion of Iraq, you had asked me to write another
political piece. After discussion it was to be more local concerning
the political and security landscape.
 
        This can only be done, Norfolk being a world military center
that it is, within a view of a much larger context. A few years
before working for you there was a front page article in the New
York Times with the headline itself stating that Norfolk was fast
becoming a world center. It was at the time that Admiral Gehman,
a Norfolk native, was at the helm of NATO Atlantic. During that
period piers at NOB berthed many foreign naval warships from
Mexico to Communist China. And also during that period this
forward thinking admiral held the 'Norfolk Conference' wherein
military and civilian leaders from all of NATO including the then
pending Czech Republics, Hungary and Poland were invited.
Though with only the Virginian Pilot's explanation that the
conference was 'secret' and discussed (without explanation) the
'new technologies', it was then followed by the surprising
announcement that at a nuke facility on the peninsula the speed of
light, assumed by most to be an invariable constant of nature, was
slowed to a mere 38 miles per hour. From my perspective I could
readily assume this was based upon the work of a Czech, Pavlita,
whose work went behind the Iron Curtain when the tanks rolled into
Prague and were hidden there until the mid 1980s. Admiral
Gehman was also at the helm when the dangerous situation in the
Balkans was dissolved mainly by the international militaries working
together, and working against (my personal view), forces that
wanted a larger (though 'managed') conflict. When it was
announced that a large (60 vehicle plus) Russian column took the
Kosovo Airport, the major media had no foreknowledge, nor did
'Washington', nor did, (by his own admission),Yeltsen know. And
it was his army! Again the result of very direct international
intramilitary cooperation. Following this (and here note well before
9/11) both Admiral Gehman and General Krulac took unusually
'early retirements'. It is my opinion that both these brilliant field
grade officers back then saw winds blowing that they wanted no
part of. Gehman was replaced by the 'more quiet' General Buck
Kernan. Kernan was insultingly introduced by the Pilot (lead
editorial) by the patronizing head pat that he would be, in the Pilot's
words, "...non political...". And this in one of, if not the, most
political of military posts. The Pilot more than suggested both that
Gehman had been too political (by whose standards?) and that Buck
Kernan would just be a guided figurehead. These were the first
signs of the demise of Norfolk truly becoming a world center. That
influence and energy has now moved to Belgium. If there is any
possibility of this being reversed it should be remembered that it
takes a whole lot of "...atta boys" to make up for just one "...ah shit!"
Doc, I will get to the more local security, but here feel need
to paint Norfolk in a more historical perspective:
   
        Martha's Vineyard, prior to the Suez and Panama canals,
and during the Age of Sail, was the place where world
communication through the tea, slave, opium, and whaling trades
came together first. It was for some time the world's most central
'post office'. This was a very private system run by the Luce
family. Henry Luce, though he grew up in central China, used these
old family connections to create the Time magazine empire.
Banking follows information centers, and the banking center (Wall
Street) would have remained in Boston were it not for the canals
and the railroads. Even well prior to the Civil War, Norfolk, by
location, was on the way to becoming a military and naval center.
Another Luce, Commodore Luce (and the last naval officer to hold
that rank), made great effort to stem this tide and bring more power
back to New England, for example seeing that the new Naval War
College etc. would be located in Newport, RI. It was a marginal
job, against the dictum of geography, and at the onset of your Civil
War Norfolk still held the 'swing vote'. The Civil War itself was far
more international than generally taught, and even an extension, at
least in grand design, of the Crimean War just ten years prior.
Though not directly involved with force, many of the troop ships
and supporting supply ships were from the US. Geography held,
and there was no stopping the influence of Norfolk. For example, if
you check the older maps, you will always see the term 'Hampton
Roads' placed by the mapmakers above the naval base. As relating
to England, to wisely get to the throne you must first 'take the
Hampton roads' and go through the navy first, emphasizing
Kipling's remark that, "The navy is very old, and very wise." The
Day Book, published by the Nautilus naval historical group at times
continues to go back to the old question of why at the onset of Civil
War the naval ships were widely dispersed around the globe.
Political correctness, (or something?), seems to keep them skirting
the obvious, that for some period there was a question of where the
international money winds were blowing. Until that was known, the
ships were wisely kept out of harms way. England, for example,
was split with the Monarchy for the South and the masses for the
North. Norfolk became the pivot. It was Norfolk that first saw the
signs, and became the 'pocket in the South that turned with the
North'. This insider influence of Norfolk in history grew and grew
right up until the quite recent NATO split over Iraq. Now Norfolk's
influence has taken a giant nose-dive.

   The next historical impact upon Norfolk are secret
agreements brokered by Henry Luce concerning the non use of
nuclear weapons in the early fifties. Because of the military
presence in Norfolk some higher portions of Norfolk inner society
had to be made privy. How ever do I explain? Just about two
months ago I was first up in East Ocean View and got an NAB call
where I picked up a Marine Colonel in uniform. (a Col. Mathews if
memory serves, and young enough at that rank that I assumed
Naval Academy.) I was certainly not going to miss this opportunity
for one or more of my 'rants' and devised a way to quickly get into
those subjects. As I drove off with him I remained silent for a few
hundred yards then shook my head and growled, "...I don't know,
sir, perhaps you just got in the wrong cab," and left a short
pregnant silence. "Sir, I'm going to ask you what you think of
Marine Lt. General Paul Van Riper, but warn you that I have
strong opinions on the matter." This got the colonel's attention,
and he wisely replied with a non committal, "Well, I don't know,
but have heard that he has a reputation for being very hard to
work for..." I turned, smiled, and said, "...Well, OK, I'll tell you
what I think first," leaving subjects set and ice broken. But in that
conversation also came up the subject of 'secret agreements'
concerning non use of nuclear weapons. And this young Marine
Colonel's reaction was common (though necessarily schizophrenic)
as an intelligent person's perception of this subject in modern
society need be. I proposed to him that there are such secret
agreements, and gave my background from childhood and my
Father's work at Time Magazine. After Secretary Stimson insisted
on nuking Japan, (more a warning to Stalin and the new China than
ending the war) the entire military landscape changed. The full
implications of that change was summed up in Luce's pithy
statement, "War for unconditional surrender can no longer be
waged." The powers-that-be well saw that this technology would in
time be developed by the Soviet Union, China, and the other major
powers. As they saw also that was simply no way to stop one
nuclear state from nuking another. Missiles are not needed, you can
simply drive it in on a pleasure boat, set a timer and get on a bus.
What was to be done? There was already in place open agreements
made after WW I concerning non use of gas. And for the most part
that open agreement held. After all we went through WW II
without the use of gas. Granted gas was outlawed to some extent
because it hindered use of war at all. Back in the First World War,
Galipoli was the only theatre where gas was not used, and that
mostly as both sides, both Lord Kitchner and Mustafa Kamel, knew
if it was used that men would start killing officers! But, even
though open agreements concerning gas (in general) worked, this
was not the road taken with the nuclear issue.
 
   The road taken with the nuclear issue was the use of 'secret
agreement', and that has created the 'schizophrenic' world military
mind. Bear with me here, Doc. This is the main undercurrent in
understanding Norfolk's demise...:

   Secret agreements concerning nukes would, and did,
empower a hidden international group. And at the same time keep
the world's masses in a continual undercurrent of fear while they
paid for with taxes 'missile defenses' that made no sense. These
'secret agreements' were first proposed by Henry Luce who brought
the concept to Joe Stalin. In short the reaction of Uncle Joe was in
the vein, "I love it, I love it. But I can't go for it. You can trust
me, as I am in charge here, but how can I trust you in this..., you
keep changing leaders." At that point Luce, with the aid of Hedley
Donovan, came up with a plan to satisfy Uncle Joe's concerns.
Hedley Donovan, a Rhodes Scholar, was then considered the best in
naval intelligence. It was Hedley who located the Jap fleet at Leyte
Gulf. Short of time to locate the fleet, he had the brainstorm of
quickly ordering that all spies on all islands go down to local pubs or
watering holes and just answer one simple question ...: 'was the talk
serious or happy'. By plotting the answers to that one simple
question he located the Jap fleet. The song 'Happy Talk' was put
into the musical South Pacific as insider tribute. The uppermost
intelligence was to be kept, not in the public sector of 'government',
but the private sector of 'media'. Therefore Hedley Donovan was
not made the head of the new formed CIA. He was made by Luce
the president of Time Magazine. Hedley is the role model of
'Hedley Roland' of Doonsbury, the CIA type posing as a newsman.
How were Henry Luce and Hedley Donovan to counter Joe
Stalin's concerns? Stalin could insure that he was in charge of the
nuclear weapons in the Soviet Union. How could Luce and
Donovan insure Uncle Joe that they were in charge of the nuclear
weapons here? Again, power in the United States could change
every four years. Hedley and Henry Luce, to appease Uncle Joe
and demonstrate control, came up with a 'phony censorship flap'
using just the upscale Fortune Magazine. In this concocted flap
they would show Joe just who was in charge. The concocted flap
concerned changing, (with dramatic 'White House' gaming), a
simple phrase, with great public fanfare in Fortune, from "...the
President decided..." to simply "...it was decided." This was
enough semi public insurance to Stalin that the President was not in
charge of the nuke issue. The deal was sealed (You may refer to
Vol. II, History of Time Inc., Elsner, searching through index and
reading between the lines to see this.) Joe had bought in. Next in
this deal came the Chinese. Though, at least publicly, the Chinese
did not develop the bomb until well into the sixties, they certainly
had the capability and delayed only for political moral height. When
Luce sealed the deal with China he did so in Tehran, Iran. The
flight back to Manhattan was then about 30 hours, and it was during
his return that China crossed the Yalu and entered Korea. China
did so knowing that they would not be nuked. And they also never
deployed their navy which is the giant question, why?, asked by any
serious historian of the Korean Conflict. (At that time, if you
remember, Doc, even the use of the word 'war' itself was very
touchy.) It would seem too that the non deployment of China's
navy itself was part of the same deal. Inchon, touch and go as it
was, could have been vastly different!

   This begs the question as to how such a deal could, 'secret'
as it is, could be made to work, and leads to the question as to how
Norfolk in particular fits in.

   How could it work? There are two parts to military
intelligence, 'capability' and 'intent'. With nukes capability is not a
question, again it can be driven in on a pleasure boat. So any type
of deal must be based on intent. That so, you can only make such a
deal by agreeing first that if any serious talk about nuking comes up
in any power, then that power must immediately share all those
particulars with the other powers. Checking mechanisms were
constructed through the international criminal empires as well.
International financing and banking connections became more
important as source. The Israelis, having wide financial networks
were used and thereby gained much influence in what was fast
becoming an international 'shadow government.' Notice, that even
though the general outline of the 'Balfor Agreement' came after
WW I, that the formation of Israel and the necessity of some sort of
nuclear bomb controls after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were
concurrent. Historically the 'Great Dispersion' of the Jewish people
some many centuries ago made their international financial power
and intelligence grow. With this base of world money connections it
became logical that there would be a quid pro quo for them to
receive help in establishing a new nation if they would also be part
the 'checking mechanisms' for Henry Luce's non-use-of-nukes
deal. To see this most dramatically look in the back section of the
book By Way Of Deception by the 'disgruntled' former Mossad
officer who wrote the book in Canada. Though he does not write
about such a deal, and may not even know of it, the map of the
organization of the Mossad 'desks' is, to say the least, revealing. In
that map there was giant variance in the comparative size of the
geographical desks...: 1- The sizes of the 'Africa Desk', the
'Europe Desk', the 'Mideast Desk' etc. were all about the same
size. 2- The biggest desk of all, giant compared to the others, was
the 'Benelux Desk' concerning the three little countries that were
once Holland. This emphasized the importance of international
finance. 3- Most astounding was that there were NO desks for
either the USA or the Soviet Union. In the USA Mossad activity is
by law supposedly 'illegal'. As it would have logically been in the
former Soviet Union. This more than strongly hints that they
worked at a level where what we call the 'CIA' or the former
'KBG' were in fact combined operations

   There is always, in discussing this issue, the problem that it
be considered anti Semitic. However, this is not at all true when
fully considering the geographical imperative of history. I am
getting to Norfolk, Doc, but should expand upon this a bit so that
there is no misinterpretation. Two things form the basis of naval
intelligence, and these as a child were drummed into me over and
over. These two things are the 'mapmakers baseline of history'
(sometimes called The Mystery Of Babylon) and the 'secret of Wu
Tui'. The 'mapmakers baseline' is a simple timeline of the centers
of information on the planet. We have only been able to completely
navigate the seas, became a blue water mammal, for only a mere
four or five centuries. What was the center of communication for
the globe way back when we did not navigate on the water at all? If
you just put the globe across the room and spin it around, the center
becomes obvious...: Babylon. Here was the center of the camel
caravan routes between the continents of Asia, Africa and Europe.
But what happened to this as we started to navigate just around the
shores? Another communications network began to develop around
the Mediterranean or 'middle sea'. This intelligence network began
to compete with the old Babylon network. The greater information
center started to develop in Biblos, now Tyre in present Lebanon.
That center was militarily unprotected and was moved into the
mountains, Jerusalem. The new center had the Mediterranean and
the information network among the fisherman on one side of those
mountains, and the camel caravan route by the Dead Sea on the
other. The entire First Testament of the Bible is to a large extent
the history of this 'information center' transfer. It is axiomatic that
banking follows information. 'Trusts' started and held in Babylon
moved to, and grew more quickly, in Jerusalem. As navigation and
shipbuilding improved, these 'information centers' that banking
would follow moved. The sequence of these centers is Babylon,
Jerusalem, Rhodes, Rome, Malta (around the time of the crusades),
then to Lisbon (Lisbon with Henry the Navigator was in the 1400s
an international metropolis with Scandinavians mixing with Blacks
from darkest Africa). At this time, as we became then truly a blue
water mammal, that information center rested for a time in the
Azores, but jumped across the Atlantic to Nantucket and as that
harbor was blocked by a sandbar, rested during the Age of Sail and
before the Suez and Panama canals, on Martha's Vineyard. Just a
bendable plastic ruler and a globe will show this. As example, a
young lady by the name of Abiah Folger grew up on Nantucket and
was taught this 'ship talking ship' intelligence. She moved to
Boston and married a candlemaker. It was this inner learning given
to her children which made one of them, Benjamin Franklin, the
international diplomat that he became. This first rule of history was
reinforced by understanding the exceptions. For example, where
was England in all of this? Did not, for some time, Briton 'rule the
waves' and almost conquered most of the world. Briton was 'just
off' the 'mapmakers baseline' and had a specific advantage of
science, namely the use of calculus in naval gunnery which (though
in general theory known by 1730) was in specific use guarded with
only Royal Marines used as gunners. The second concept that
forms the basis of naval intelligence is something called the 'Secret
of Wu Tui'. In a sense it is a simple test in logic. Somewhere
around the birth of Christ, some think the year four, a secret
message went from the Emperor of China, Wu Tui, to the Emperor
of Rome, Caesar. The test of logic is..., what is this secret? If logic
states that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend', what is the most
exquisite secret that could be proposed? Simple, "Let us pretend to
be enemies, but be very secret friends at top, with this only we,
secretly, will know everything." The silk road was just developing,
and this, conspiring being natural, would develop on any planet
where two large empires were just connecting. With this the
Kosars, those connected to the Jewish trusts with historical
connections to the silk road, would become insiders.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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The fall of Norfolk
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2008, 11:02:08 AM »
With these principles composition of those at top of world
'shadow government' is more easily understood. For example,
religions hold large trusts. Briton nearly ruled the world. But many
who fought for England, and made world connections, were Irish.
But they were connected to the older Catholic trusts. If a
disproportionate amount of those in 'secret government' seem
Jewish, notice also that a disproportionate amount are of Irish
decent. My father would make this distinction by calling the first
'camel Jews’, and the Irish 'sea Jews'. This may be an over
simplification, but from Babylon the world money heads came
together after 1- the 'Great Dispersion' of the Jews, 2- the
combining, (behind the scenes), of the main religion's trusts by the
Hapsburgs, Romanovs, and Turkish Osmilis families, 3- which
connected to the Anglican trusts, 4- which were augmented by 'new
Catholic' Irish trusts, 5- which were added to the new world blue
blood trusts of Boston. There was then combined banking of many
of the Spanish interests. As the world at sea for some period was
shared between Britain and Spain, it makes sense that the
newspaper on Martha's Vineyard was by tradition, up until about
1920, owned by a Spanish family, Sanchez. As intelligence can
'root' to geography, note that it is still Martha's Vineyard where the
international media tycoons, (Redstone, Murdock et al - really a
relatively small group of men) still meet quietly every August. And
understand too that this combined group always, as the baseline
moved west, was in close contact with the Han family of China.

   Few know just how central Martha's Vineyard was in the
1700s and 1800s. A sailor was sent from the Vineyard to
modernize the Russian navy. He fought for Catherine The Great
against the Turks in the Black Sea. He even once rowed out by
himself and wrote on Turk ships "To Be Burned" and the next day
burned them. The father of the modern Russian navy is John Paul
Jones.

   As this 'secret government' became more powerful and
glued together by the nuclear issue, military centers such as Norfolk
or Murmansk would become problematic and need deeper
supervision. I have in my life become witness to times when these
agreements were cheated on, as when I was a child of ten in 54
when talk concerning using a nuke to help the French was not, per
agreement, properly shared; or the agreement tree was substantially
shaken as it was with the 'surprise' Soviet naval maneuvers of mid
March 1984.

   Why is the intelligent public schizophrenic on this issue?
The Marine Colonel in Car 2 readily understood that such
agreements, secret and unlawful as they are, are probably in place.
What does this say about all the 'Dew line' defenses and so called
missile defenses that are in place? In one respect this is a giant scam
that we go along with. A mere child could amply reason the giant
stupidity!

   Yes, a place such as Norfolk would certainly need tight
supervision, and this tree itself was also most visibly shaken in the
Walker Case to which I will later return.

   And as Norfolk needed this tight control, it became a center
where the international Mafia, the CIA etc., and 'secret
government' merged. Most notably Virginia Beach, but by Norfolk
I am referring to all of Tidewater.

   And because of this necessary control, and such things also
such as proximity of nuclear weapons, etc. (and of course even well
before 9/11) the police/security/criminal network of Norfolk became
one well oiled organization. This completely tied together
police/security/criminal network in Norfolk differs vastly from other
major cities. To exemplify this I have often, partly joking, asked my
passengers who the mob leaders were in Norfolk. Sometimes I
would get names, I will get to those, but most often, even with savvy
long time residents, I would get a shrug. They did not know. I
would point out that this was certainly different from most
metropolitan areas wherein not only would you know the Whitey
Bugler types of Boston but even what they had for breakfast. To
continue I would ask, "Do you know why you don't know?" And
after a smile and a shrug add, "...Because here they are in
government," pointing out for example that Myra Obendorf, the
Mayor of Virginia Beach is the niece of all-time gangster/banker
Meyer Lansky. There is much truth in this simplification. When I
do get names they are either relatively low level such as (a local attorney)
or (real estate co.), or on rarer occasions names such as Jack Mace and
Andy Fine of the Maritime Commission (the one quasi government
organization connecting the Tidewater cities and Members of
Masonic Temple One, and others in that group such as Barry
Kantor.) Gustavo Ardillo, the Norfolk connected Columbian
banker is another. As to the above names, I should certainly say
'reputed'. These are names, Doc, that were simply offered to
me as an outsider. I most certainly do not have any direct evidence
of this, and can also state that some good part of these 'reputations'
came from older members your own company. It the case of the
'middle member stuck' (local attorney), though he pops in and out of
the Cayman Islands, etc., he is, after all, an attorney, and it is highly
unlikely that his is a high end godfather, but more a trusted person,
with high reputation, to smooth out lower end security problems.
Even if any truth to these reputations, you will see when I show how
the lower end security works, it is really a compliment. It is true that
unlike other cities there is almost no separation between the criminal
and the police networks. Very little drugs come in that is not known
about. Even the local streetwalker can only maintain her position by
being a snitch. Besides crack, a small controlled amount of heroin is
let in as it draws in those users to be watched. Very efficient. It is
playing both sides of the street, and certainly has for both naval
security and public protection many advantages. With this
intelligence Norfolk, (on the low end - I'll explain) is certainly
extremely well policed. Further it is very fare. Regarding the NPD,
in almost three years in Ocean View with many friends and
contacts, (call girls, street walkers, thugs, crack dealers, the works,)
though hearing numerous complaints, I have never once heard of
even one case of gross injustice on the lower or street level that
seemed to have any merit. However, on the high end of Norfolk
society there are very many instances of gross injustice. Again, the
exact opposite of most major metropolitan areas. In, for example, a
city like New York, there are known criminal empires with their
'Ginos' or 'Gottis' or whoever, who at some higher level do share,
of course, some intelligence with the police and visa versa. This is
very different from the almost total control such as Norfolk. It is a
reverse wherein in such as New York 'society' murders are fully
investigated and in Norfolk it is somewhere from barely to rarely.
Because in Norfolk these murders are within 'control problems' on
the outskirts of the inner system they are quickly covered up. So
quickly in fact that they never even become 'statistics'. In no
manner am I advocating a 'New York' approach to security in
Norfolk. I am just making a distinction with the pragmatic
acknowledgment that it is the best in circumstance. This is why you
hear about a Portsmouth Judge screaming from the bench that only
low level addicts are ever brought before him and very publicly
questioning why.

        Let us return to the Walker Case with the above in mind.
Here is a retired non com, member of Masonic One, who for some
reason is able to do such things as place hidden cameras in many
rooms of the motels in Ocean View. He was on more than
one occasion witnessed as meeting some high ranking admirals near
Jacksonville. And on and on. It would be sophomoric to assume
that he and just a few others were acting alone. He was obviously
part of the larger illegal checking mechanism that I referred to
above. Had his drunken ex wife starting screaming 'spy' in Norfolk
rather than Cape Cod this would have most likely been easily
covered up by Dan McNally (former 4th Marine) the liaison
between the Navy and the FBI. And others. But with Boston FBI
throwing wrenches Walker had to be sacrificed. Walker knew this,
and that in his position he had better (to breath) keep his mouth shut
and take the rap. 'Awards' were given for hack writers who would
help cover. Howard Blum, a lexiconic hit man for the NYTimes
wrote I Pledge Allegiance that was made into a TV movie. A local
former FBI agent, John Hunter, who worked on the case also wrote
a cover-up book, Spy Hunter, and this paraded around the naval
bases. I spoke to former agent Hunter a few months before I started
driving for Cab Co. He almost choked when I told him what I
thought of it..., "...Bull". He also went to a book signing where I
had some friends. One of my friends, Kay, came to the head of the
book signing line and in sweet southern drawl lashed into him as
in..., "...Haaave you, sir, no shame at aaaallll in this...," and non
stop on and on. John Hunter went red faced with this and tried to
get out of it by bypassing my friend , who was giving him this
lashing. He kept trying to get out of it by pointing to another of my
friends, Ellen, who was directly behind Kay in the book signing line.
He kept pointing to Ellen saying, "...OK, you are next." Ellen kept
ignoring this until finally after many "OK, you are next" repeats she
just pointed to herself and said, "Who? Me?" And then pointing to
Kay said, "Oh, I'm with her."
 
   What the above does point out is the very sharp and
pyramidal levels of intelligence knowledge in Norfolk. Many in
Norfolk on an illegal 'need to know' must know. This is woven
through levels of Justice, FBI, naval, government and criminal. In
many cases people in these positions are well prepped. Col. George
Griggs, the head assassin trainer at Little Creek in the eighties was
'mind controlled' from adolescence. The 'Kay' above, his former
wife, Kathryn Pollard Miller, has been the subject of two
underground videos, Mind Control In The Military and A Few Bad
Men. As her prior marriage was to the son of the former Governor
of Virginia, Pollard, she had the social standing to be able to arrange
some protection through the 'lady-in-the-wheelchair' at all
Presidential news conferences, Sara McClennon, to get away with it,
(though barely!). But as a former 'senior NATO wife', in these
videos she documents how her husband as a teen was mind
controlled with such things as forced homosexuality and 'cold kills'
such as in gang land initiations. Along with documenting evidence
about some high end assassinations, William Colby, Admiral
Boorda, etc., she describes the high end prep schools used. In her
husband's case it was the Hun School in Princeton, NJ, started by
strangely connected Germans after WW II, a school that has a close
unofficial relationship with Princeton. Kay Miller states that her
husband's, Colonel Griggs, on and off room mate at Princeton was
none other than Donald Rumsfeld. The other method of control of
those either, as above, destined to be in the know about the 'secret
nuke agreements', or need be told by situation, is the Masonic
networks. It is common knowledge that to progress to any level in
the intelligence community of any nation one must be a Mason. I
do not mean this as a slur against Masonry per se, just that this was
and is convenient and heavily used. For example, on some levels it
is accepted that Iran is in reality far more a Masonic governed
society than Muslim. (As it should be as well of interest to note that
throughout the entire Iraq invasion it was the country never
mentioned by the media, almost as it didn't even exist!) Norfolk,
VA, by necessity takes on this underground Masonic 'Brotherhood'
form of shadow government as well, but far heavier than other
areas. As it is leveled, the average Mason does not have a clue.

   Many of the inside players are flat out mind controlled. At
first this is not obvious. Anything that makes these individuals in
their own minds 'separate' from normal society helps the influence.
If one is secretly homosexual, observed by others doing 'cold kill'
initiatory rites, comes from families in line with world trusts, (or no
families and mind controlled from teen years), and quietly members
of esoteric groups and so forth, these individuals would tend only to
trust their superiors within the group. If you doubt the extent of
homosexuality used as control, even in areas of the US Marines, do
get your hands on A Few Bad Men or Mind Control In The
Military. In one respect it would be a job for Marine Command to
purge these types out. You cannot restrict private associations with
inner Masonic groups, etc. Though they could do this purge if the
full will was there. Often in the officer ranks these mind controlled
robots who have their careers managed do not raise above the rank
of colonel. This is because it would bring too much attention. Look
at recent history for Marines in high positions with that rank,
positions that would in at least some sense outrank generals. Realize
also that the Marines are a perfect place to hide private assassin
groups. These men can then hide behind others honor.

   I need also here be very clear that this is in no way putting
down homosexuality. If you go back to the spy rings in England
such a Blount and Philby et al, you see they were almost entirely
homosexual. Boys are sought out at the Eatons or other prep
schools. As generations go on it tends to institutionalize. To have
the goods on someone makes it easier to bring them into other
'secrets' with control. The American military handling of the issue
makes it even better. If a Marine officer is butt f**king with
international spies, "....Don't ask..." If illegal gunrunning and drug
trade is also involved, well, certainly "...Don't tell."
Norfolk FBI is overly autonomous. It is a large office, 145
agents, and was my introduction to Norfolk. It was a female who
did the questioning and I was only to much later learn that she was
the head of Norfolk FBI. Forget her name except that she was from
upper New York State. To put this in perspective, by good
management all FBI offices need a good degree of autonomy. This
forms as an automatic checking mechanism, as for example the
Walker Case above. Or showing how important a certain degree of
autonomy is, during the recent spy flap with that counter intelligence
agent in DC that Freeh ordered that all offices report on the matter
independently, again a check. The problematic Norfolk security
created an FBI so overly independent of the other offices, that it
stands with its own international connections almost a kingdom to
itself. At some point after my Norfolk FBI visit this female head of
Norfolk FBI left. The position was for some long period unfilled.
There were only 'temporary heads' for Norfolk FBI. The position
was a 'hot potato'. Now there is a head, forget his name, young,
who has spoken at some Republican functions. From what I gather
he is either very shrewd or very naive. Under these conditions,
Doc, you might want to find out who his Chief of Staff is, is the
Chief of Staff 4th Marine, etc. Prostitution might shed a little more
light on what is meant by 'overly autonomous' Norfolk FBI...:
With few exceptions, if you look under 'escort service' in the
Yellow Pages in almost every major city across the US
(Albuquerque, Frisco, NYC, wherever) you see the exact same full
and half page ads. These ads are made to look like they are
competing, they are not. All one company. And all this, the entire
nation run out of Virginia Beach by some guy called Demming.
There was a tangential case against Demming prosecuted on Granby
Street. It was obviously showmanship. But what did become clear
is that in no conceivable manner could that organization ever afford
coast to coast full and half page advertising. What is going on? It
became clear that the advertising is a 'trade out'. R.R. Donnelly,
the Yellow Pages, can easily afford to give out that space for little or
nothing. So it becomes a joke...: "Who is the R.R Donnelley
Company? The phone company. So who is the biggest pimp in the
United States. The National Security Agency of course...!" True
enough, but much is lost in the simplification. The New York
Times owns the Virginian Pilot. The Virginian Pilot owns the little
free distribution Port Folio. It was the Port Folio that did a piece
after the 'soft' prosecution of Demming. The piece played down
the scope of Demming's influence, and made him look like a good
old boy who wanted to help people celebrate birthdays. But just a
little closer look shows a massive quid pro quo nexus, involving at
least some part of Norfolk FBI across most of the country. At this
level, the value of the Yellow Page space is nothing against the
ability to have inside information on, or even run extortive or 'third
party law' operations on a slice of the population nation wide. And
all this through Norfolk.

   Perhaps this would be a place to discuss the true position of
Admiral Cole. He is, or was, known as the 'Mayor' admiral, the
one in charge of installation, housing, etc. He is really the 'security'
admiral. Or best explained as one with more direct nuclear checking
responsibilities. This is why with that position he also becomes the
'unofficial' 'Viceroy' of Iceland. In fact it is very official. Iceland
has been, and is, an old high level Soviet/Russian to USA high level
meeting area on the military 'secret government' level. One should
note that Rumsfeld promoted Admiral Cole to even wider security
concerns. In one respect that might be considered circling the
wagons. I might add to this that there was map published in
the NYTimes regarding who was, and was not, in the coalition.
This map was quite revealing. There was England, Spain, 'paid-for'
former Soviet states, and to what might at first blush seem odd to
most, was Denmark. For a Scandinavian country it was very odd,
a majority of the populations including Denmark were against the
invasion. However, what is not widely known is that Denmark also
has been more on the scientific level an old Soviet / US go between.
As almost a completely socialistic society it was easy to set up (on
need to know) many co run laboratories. Much of which is on the
biological and mind control area.

   I might here insert a cab driving story in this regard. I had
noted the Icelandic freighter that plies between Norfolk and
Reykjavik. The trip takes anywhere between 10 to 14 days
depending on North Sea weather. This docks on that small piece of
private land inserted into the Little Creek harbor off of Ferry Road.
I had asked around and to some extent privately confirmed that this
would most probably have a strong Reykiavik / Murmansk
connection that would involve illegal arms shipments and God
knows what else. I even took people with that interest down to take
pictures. Many a night Car 2 was hidden along the tracks or behind
some rail car outside of Abco Cement. I was, in the cab, quite
outspoken about this with sailors, etc. One night, alone on the
stand, I got a call to the go-go bar, Shakers. A large guy gets in the
cab who looked decidedly out of place at Shakers. He then asks me
what I knew of the Icelandic ship that pulls in. Thought that odd
and I was a tad guarded. He informed me that he was Scottish and
was an officer aboard that vessel. (At that time I did not know, but
later confirmed, that the vessel, name of which is something like
'Greckin', does indeed have Scottish officers and this in itself says
much.) As we crossed the railroad bridge over Ferry Road he said,
"Good God, look at all the police." I looked left toward the harbor
and saw nothing. He directed me to a motel, Days Inn I think, on
Northhampton. "Just drive through those guys." he says. This
was strange as there was nobody in sight. But, as I turned around
the back of the motel there then did appear a whole line of very
beefy guys that did part for Car 2. He got out and that was that.
However, when I did cross back over Ferry Road this time I looked
in the other direction down the railroad tracks. There was a sea of
blue lights along the railroad cars. This was the night that the
outside of NOB around Applebees was shut down, no one in and
no one out. As the reason for that seemed stupid, I had often
wondered if someone was looking for a manifest passing slick at
Applebees. Some months passed and I got a call for Drexler
Manner, the BOQ on Little Creek. An older gentleman, a woman
about 30, and a man about 40 got in. I asked about their accent and
they were Icelandic. (I had assumed they were military officers for
some time, later reminded that Iceland does not have a formal
military.) However, it was obvious that the elder was a dignitary of
some sort and the others his aids. It was a good trip, to Military
Circle, and enough time to broach many subjects. The elder
gentleman asked for two repeats from me. He asked me if I thought
there was something illegal involved with the freighter. I said yes. I
had also stated, regarding the large philosophical (I am being kind)
split within the US military that at this time the US, "... Should not
be trusted". He wanted that repeated as well. At Military Circle
the younger man paid with a decent tip, five bucks. After that the
elder man walked back to the car, gave me yet another five bucks,
and stood back and gave me a very snappy salute. What would be
hard to explain is the volume of psychic energy from that exchange.
Energy was pouring out of me for hours.

   Again Norfolk when I arrived was becoming a high energy
town. Gehman's 'Norfolk Conference' and the heavy traffic of
foreign naval visits, Communist China, Mexico, and on and on. As
time went on this dwindled down and the last visit, by a few
Canadian warships had those sailors down on Waterside calling the
US "Crazy" and "Dangerous" and almost leading to a few fights.
Norfolk let this slip away, and if anyone can be blamed it would be
Rumsfeld et al...: Wolfawitz, Cheney, Richard Pearl and to the
deepest 'shadow government' insider, John Lehman. Rumsfeld has
always mentored Cheney, has so Cheney's whole career. And
Rumsfeld's main mentor was Colby who ended up murdered. All
three 'Cap and Gown' Princeton. My understanding is, unlike
Boorda, this assassination was not done by one of your US Marines,
but a foreigner who did not know who he had done until it was on
TV. Though 4th Marine types were guiding the op. Lehman came
to town twice while I was at Cab Co. First after the Cole bombing
where he penned an almost sniggering op ed piece for the Virginian
Pilot wherein he referred to the present naval deployments (without
explanation) as quote "...Willy nilly..." unquote. And who but
Lehman could just waltz into town and get away with that?! I had
often wondered as to exactly what deployments he was referring to.
I had guessed most probably the African and South American
deployments of the Gunsten Hall and Carter Hall, but I am still after
much thought not sure. As I have always maintained that the
Western Powers would meet their downfall south of the equator, I
had personally felt those deployments, beyond gunboating, of good
intelligence value as the commanders could more directly test the
political waters. Lehman's second trip to Norfolk was for the
Reagan christening. I got a call and was told that he would be
speaking at the Holiday Inn near the Hampton Coliseum with such
darknaries as Jean Kirkpactrik and Edmond Meese. I was also told
that it was unadvertised but that the public could get in..., "Mostly
just CIA types not wanting to play golf that day." I said I would
crawl through the Hampton Tunnel if necessary. There was every
effort to 'play John down' in public. All of the five speakers except
John wore suits. John wore a sports coat and blue shirt, more to be
'just' 'only' 'merely' that Former Naval Secretary over in the
corner. Ha. But every speaker, every one, referred to Konstantin
Ustinovich Cherenko's 'warning' of 1983 as a turning point in
modern history. At least some credit was given where credit due,
even with the implications smirkingly reversed. Time will tell.
I might add here that the master of ceremonies at this
function opened with, believe it or not, a 'cab driver' joke. Here it
is. He got into a cab at the Williamsburg Airport and found that the
cab driver was Lithuanian. This cabby asked why he was in town
and was told it was for the RR christening. "Ah," said the cabby,
"Reagan was the greatest of Presidents. He should be put on Mt.
Rushmore." The passenger said, "That would be wonderful, but
there is no way that it would fit." "No problem, replies the
Lithuanian cabby, "Now we got a new way of measuring!" Those
on the podium knowingly laughed, those in audience gave polite
blank laughs. I was drop jawed. At any rate I positioned myself so
that I at least had a chance to shake the 'Former Naval Secretary's'
hand. "Pleased to meet you." seemed in that situation more
mannerly and appropriate than, "Drop dead, you damned lizard."
Norfolk influence...?

   Atta, the man who led the attack on the World Trade Center
and Pentagon had made at least two trips to Virginia Beach. There
was an Arab student at Norfolk State who was arrested by the FBI
after 9/11. It was reported (Pilot) that he had on a number of
occasions paid for Atta's hotel rooms in California and had four
phony airline pilots uniforms on him. The Pilot also stated that
there were indications that this young Arab had some involvement in
the local drug trade. Guess what? The FBI, knowing the above,
and after 9/11, let him go. And only rearrested him under pressure.
This with the many other 'oversights' brought out by whistleblowers
point very probably to inside assistance in the attack. All this has
been whitewashed. In the ride with the Colonel that I picked up at
NAB, he made the statement, without expansion, that he was
surprised at.."How many sailors here think there is something
wrong with the 9/11 story." I imagine he said sailors instead of
marines as he was just transferred here. As to the attack, que bono?
This is an old game. Admiral Rickover before Congress was quite
convinced that the United States blew up its own battleship, the
Maine, to get a war started with Spain. Norfolk need look a little
more closely at these international 'shadow government' types. Add
that group on 69th Street at the Oceanfront, the '69th Street
Irregulars' to the list. But make no mistake..., the United States
does have very real and serious enemies. And it is axiomatic that
wars are very hard to start, but once started, very hard to stop.

   This was a dark point I had often harped on with my military
passengers. Early, not that long after 9/11, when it was still
emotionally sensitive, I picked up five Army officers returning from
Afghanistan at the MAC. As they all had wings, and were headed
to Ft. Hood, I assumed they were chopper pilots. The back was
stuffed with duffel bags, four officers were in the back seat, and the
senior officer, a giant well over six feet, was up front with me. I
went into a few of my normal rants. Two of the officers in the back
were more than intrigued, hanging onto every word. The giant up
front with me was getting major upset. The ride was to the
Sheridan at Waterside and twice he put up his hand and said,
"OK..., that will be enough of that...." I just gave him one of those
'you can get out right here and take your damned sea bags' looks
and continued on as two of his subordinates in the back of Car 2
were plainly interested. At the Sheridan the strangest thing
happened. I was unloading the bags and all five of them went about
15 meters away and were in a huddle. What? I could not figure out
what they were up to. Finally the big guy stomps over to me real
pissed. In silence he gives me a twenty dollar bill, a one dollar bill,
and carefully counts out two quarters and one dime. The fare was
$18. exact. He gives me 21.60, an exact 20% tip. Apparently that
was the topic of discussion in huddle. It was work to keep a straight
face, "Thank you VERY much, sir!"

   During the first parts of the invasion Rumsfeld and General
Meyers were hitting the TV with angry sound bites concerning
'retired military' criticising an invasion that was underway. The
media was doing all it could to prop up a floundering Defense
Secretary, and in that vein pulled out the stops. Military talking
heads helped the spin with flag wrapping smugness saying criticism
should come later. Will it? A full spin was afoot. The NYTimes
ran a front page piece attributing Rumsfeld's 'style' to just
management 'jousting'. With this spin lie on one hand, they did do
a superb job of reporting on the war itself. Apple's front page
overviews were clear and on the mark. The NYTimes editors saw
fit to give enough space to William McNulty whose faultless work
really helped understanding the war. A large part of the spin to
shore up Rumsfeld was the media's insistence that the bone of
contention was only the delayed division slated for Turkey and the
rolling start. When media lies they can spin some whoppers.
The 'military split' I mentioned occurred far before any
rolling start. Rumsfeld, (I would imagine dressed in a toga on some
bohemian estate on the West Coast with John Lehman), became
overly enthralled with smart bombs and special ops. His plans, at
the start, called for small special op forces and air power. The fight
began. If the Pentagon was going to do this, they were certainly
going to do it properly, up to four ground divisions and armor. The
main standing objection was that if done properly it would tax out
and overextend our forces. Rumsfeld's then contention that he
would go with that and remain assured that the US could handle
another theatre such as Korea as well seemed flat stupid. Some
months prior to the war the Pentagon spent 250 million dollars on
just one war game, Iraq vs. the United States. Partial cities were
constructed in California, and much of it was in careful computer
simulation, and much of that done in Suffolk. The game was
grossly rigged so, of course, the US would win and Rumsfeld's
Joint Forces Command concepts would look great. At that point
they figured, 'OK, let us find someone fairly smart to play the
enemy, to play Iraq.' From over in Williamsburg they got a retired
Marine Corps General, Lt. General Paul Van Riper. Guess what?
He won. He just didn't win, he sunk most of the US fleet in the
Persian Gulf! Rumsfeld's boys tried to continue the game, but Van
Riper made an honorable stink, 'hell no, I won.' Normally
something like this would have never come out in public, but it did,
first in the very conservative Army Times, because the inner brass
was starting to see how dangerous Rumsfeld's beliefs were
becoming. Van Riper had heavy combat experience in Vietnam and
really knew how to play low tech against high tech. First off, he
trusted no form of electronic communication assuming it would be
eavesdropped or jammed. His communications were based on such
things as mirrors, flashlights, and motorcycle carriers. But now
comes the scary part. Twenty years ago in the Falkland War a
British destroyer, the Sheffield, was sunk by a French Exocit
missile. This was in itself an eye opener. But still, you would
assume that if you wished to take out a surface ship with such a
missile, (and those old Exocits are now Third World common), you
would assume that it would need to be fired from either another
surface ship, or the land, or a plane, or a sub. Van Riper
demonstrated that they could be hidden right on the seabed, even
buried in sand, with inflatable pop-up launchers built from nothing
but liquid vinyl and sawdust. You can do a general search on the
web with 'Lt. General Paul Van Riper' and read the comment. If
you do that, scroll down to something he wrote five years ago back
in 1998. It is only about four pages, but it shows his brilliance. He
even gives, in just a few sentences, a list of rules as to when to use
left brain logic and when to use right brain intuition in combat. The
man is simply brilliant. Just prior to the invasion the Pentagon
retained Van Riper as a 'paid advisor'. The US navy's response has
been massive. New so called 'mine finding' underwater drones
have been developed in Woods Hole. But the distinction between
'mine' 'torpedo' 'missile' and even 'hydrofoil ordnance' is blurring,
all of which can be hidden in sand. The Gunsten Hall, after
unloading her marines took on the assignment of managing teams
(they come in platoons of seven) of dolphin that are trained to hunt
mines. The Gunsten Hall has been described as, "...Packed with
animal trainers..." because in these operations they face a big
problem of 'dolphin boredom'. At some point, hopefully, the navy
can see how difficult this would be against a prepared enemy. In
the big picture the world is switching back from the power of navies
and command of the seas to the power of armies.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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The fall of Norfolk
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2008, 11:04:37 AM »
Rumsfeld's first big mistake was elevating General Meyers
over the front runner Admiral Dennis C. Blair, Pacific Command,
for Chief of Staff. Meyers was of the 'build missiles to shoot down
missiles' ilk. What a wrong signal to send! In that race it was also
noted by the Pilot that there was a 'retired Marine general' running
as a dark horse. That could be none other than Krulac. I have gone
through Blair's speeches on the Internet. He is a deep insider,
Rhodes Scholar, etc., but a forward thinker. One speech, about one
month post 9/11, (Oct 16th I think), given in Monterey, you can go
toward the end of the speech and think about what he means by
referring to the FBI and CIA as "...Stovepipes..." He hints that
they are too self contained and not sharing information. Blair by
action seems to favor far more open communication on security
issues and is even a major part of a private Internet site, APN (Asian
Pacific Network) wherein anyone anywhere can discuss security
issues. He even allows pieces to be posted greatly critical of some
of his Indonesian operations gone bad, naming him as personally
responsible. This Admiral was asked by Congress what he thought
of an Iraq invasion. He replied something to the effect that it was
not too smart, leaving the US military very over extended.
Suddenly in the press I hear that an Admiral Fargo is now Pacific
Command and nothing about Admiral Blair. I have not checked,
but think perhaps another 'early retirement'. With Rumsfeld,
personal loyalty to him is everything, even though the Admiral said
nothing until he was asked.

   Same with General Buck Kernan. Kernan plays close to the
vest, in that respect he is very unlike say either Admiral Blair or the
outspoken General Krulac. After Kernan's insulting introduction by
the Pilot he was even then further slurred on front page of the large
US circulation USA Today. Apparently Kernan stated the obvious
that an invasion of Iraq at this time, particularly with fleet conditions
would leave the entire military very overextended. The one word
quote given by USA Today was "Tired". Kernan, a Staff Sgt. to
OCS maverick, who commanded a Ranger Battalion in Nam and
went on to commanding an airborne division then Fort Bragg, a
man who at a ripe age parachuted in with his own troops in Panama
would well know what 'tired' is! But, to the unknowing public this
fine general was made to look like some cartoon general in the New
Yorker. Such was the mass media treatment of any who in
intelligence and common sense countered the nuttiness of Rummy.
Good Lord, Buck Kernan never offered this information. His
opinion and council was asked by Congress! I am in the habit of
going through speeches by senior officers on the Internet. Kernan
keeps his opinions to himself. Besides silly jokes about fishing with
dynamite, they are, unlike Krulac and Blair, devoid of any
controversy. And yet this is the man who gets spin/twisted into yet
another 'early retirement'. It is with at least some respectful
payback that Kernan is now retained as a paid military consultant by
CBS. One would hope that Kernan's private candid council behind
the scenes would be more than acknowledged but understood by
CBS. But, unfortunately, knowing the mindless direction of the
upper media tycoons, I find that doubtful.

   General Charles Krulac, former US Marine Commandant,
has an interesting deep insider background. The grandfather, a
European immigrant, made some sums in the mining industry out
West. His father, Victor 'Brute' Krulac, almost made Commandant
and there is some controversy concerning the manner in which his
father influenced President Kennedy to get more involved in
Vietnam. Charles has a twin brother who is an Episcopalian
minister with ties to the St. Marys finishing school in Virginia, a
school for 'heiresses to be', a job more of money 'guidance and
watch'..., again a family of deep insiders. I will touch on the
Norwegian Lady aspect of Norfolk later. The opposite of Kernan,
Charles Krulac, at least certainly in the mid nineties, had a
reputation of being very outspoken. Just my opinion, but I would
say that whatever truth there is concerning his father's controversy
you cannot compare Charles to Victor any more than comparing
John Kennedy to Joe Kennedy, and it would seem in both cases the
sons used the positions to great honor, doing so beyond what the
fathers could accomplish but using the father's knowledge. Beyond
honor, General Krulac has a broad strategic mind, taking his
advanced degrees in more people orientated labor management then
tech gadget stuff, the more common road. Krulac's retirement
'Strategic Corporal' speech was, if memory serves, given in Norfolk
(I might be wrong). However, those ideas are now rewritten by him
and form the introduction to a book on terrorism which is published
on the Internet. A simple search should get it, and should be now
required reading for all officers. The writing flows so well that one
is apt to miss the enormity of the implications. How empires
collapse should be well thought upon, and though the 'strategic
corporal' begs what kind of minds and, for want of a better word,
'chivalry' would be in the future now required by a lieutenant, how
many follow the reasoning?

   Mike Boorda....?...! Good Lord, Doc, when was that?
1996. I now sit in the very same room overlooking Waquoit Bay on
Cape Cod where, flight 800 just or soon to be downed, (forget exact
sequence), but upon hearing of Boorda's murder I ran around
ranting, "...One damn bullet to the heart.... They should have gut
shot the sonofabitch and made him crawl around before he
died...!!!!" How greatly I misjudged this man. Now, some years
later Admiral Boorda with me ranks up with Konstantin Chernenko
with the men in modern history that I most admire! Boorda was
scheduled to speak at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy two
days before the Marine shot him, and a large headline had appeared,

"HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE FOR HIGH RANKING
NAVAL OFFICER TO SPEAK AT MARITIME ACADEMY"
 
     Trained as a child in 'reading the billboards' or
more technically 'steganoghraphy' (open messages designed to be
read in more than one manner), I knew the issue, but did not have at
that time the overall perspective, or saw the true implications. One
of my girlfriend's son's friends, Jared Swain, was attending Mass
Maritime then, and that day he was hanging around with a group of
Josh's friends drinking Budweisers. I began ranting around the
room and at one point showed the headline to Jared and screaming
asked "... Well, you attend Mass Maritime. Just exactly what is
'inappropriate' here...?" Of course he didn't know, nor did
anyone else in the room, it was a high level message. And, of
course, the kids thought me mad. Though too long to detail here,
Doc, I will try to give a very brief explanation: Regarding the old
non-use-of-nuke deal above, it is the most serious, (though secret
and in the US illegal, i.e. unratified), deal on the planet. It is the glue
of international secret or shadow government. I will state without
explanation that I then knew that there was a former breach or
cheating on that deal that was just coming to light. I also knew, first
hand, that high ranking United States officers were just becoming
aware of that cheating. And it was the United States, the party who
originally proposed the deal, that got caught, even 'historical' as it
was. You can reason the severity, but need to have lived through
tricky situations to appreciate the extreme level or amount of that
severity. In the formation of the United States there was reason to
fear that the military would have too much power. The normal
Constitutional checks were, of course, in place. But furthering that
it was decided that the higher forms of intelligence would be kept
more private (here read separate from military) in the 'merchant'
class. By 'merchant' in this day and age you can read 'media'.
And it is, the public continually fed the erroneous impression that
the media is somehow out of government 'charging at government
like a white knight'. This also explains why the deeper military
secrets are kept more within the Army, and why by some deeper
traditions officers in all branches defer to the Army, or why at some
levels Army officers 'outrank' officers of other branches of equal
rank. Thinking back to the formation of the United States,
merchant power that it was, and the Navy talking to God knows
who, that this was a natural, pragmatic precaution. At the time
stupid Michael was seeing Admiral Boorda's statement, (and by
daring to break long tradition speak at a Merchant Academy under
those circumstances this was a LARGE international statement), as
some sort of statement of uncalled for military control.
Understand, Doc, that it mattered little what he would have said,
perhaps a high level hint in the speech or not no matter. It was
speaking at the Mass Academy itself that was the larger message.
Only later, in Norfolk, was I to understand what he was truly about.
He was not suggesting some military 'takeover' against civilian
control, but more (and better) that because the media 'secret
government' control was so sloppy, (well..., outright cheating goes
far beyond sloppy!) that the international militaries needed, direct
military to military 'nuke' intelligence bypassing states and others as
a check. This is very forward thinking! However, at the same time
the powers-that-be would feel that they were being undermined or
at least with diluted power. Mike Boorda had put his finger right
into the highest nexus of power. How poignant then that 'too
political' (ha) Admiral Gehman, working military to military with
NATO nations in effect was in a degree following Boorda's
footsteps. Boorda will speak from the grave on this for some time
to come! Working for you, Doc, I came to know the true wisdom,
honor and reputation of Mike Boorda, truly a giant of a man. I
remember an officer in the back seat of Car 2 whose breast was
swelling almost to the point of tears remembering that he had
received his commission directly from the Admiral. And the sailors
universally loved him.

        I understand that Admiral Gehman pops in and out of Camp
Peary. He 'early retired' stating that he would continue to work on
strategic issues. He led the Cole investigation, and though now as a
Virginia Beach accident investigator, as high level as the Challenger
is, it at least keeps him in the game and gives him access to
Congress for the other issues as well.
 
   What stands out to me about these variously 'retired'
admirals and generals, Krulac, Blair, Kernan, Gehman, Boorda and
Van Riper is that any of them, grossly different in personality as
they are, would make (or would have made) an excellent President
of the United States, and stand head and shoulders above any of
those throwing in hats from your Congress. Why are these men
gone?

   Attached to this letter is an op ed that appeared (page A20)
in the April 2nd edition of the New York Times. The by-line tag
from the article stated that, "Joseph P. Hoar, a retired Marine
general, was commander in chief, United States Central Command,
1991 to 1994." Risking redundancy let me quote two parts again..."
1- "Today, however, nobody outside a small circle of players
knows exactly who developed the plan for the invasion or what the
prevailing views were."
2- "... I hope the Senate will again hold hearings. This time,
perhaps, the senior military commanders and the civilian defense
officials can testify as to exactly how the plan was developed."
In twelve short pithy paragraphs the general goes to the heart
of the problem. Whoever is running the show, they have become so
insular in thinking that they are flat out dangerous. Is it any wonder
that many of the mid grade officers I spoke with in Norfolk had one
short military blunt word for Rummy..., "Nuts."

   However, there is one statement that General Hoar made,
that even though he qualified with the word "...probably...," and
clearly stated the origin of the beliefs, that I disagree with. Here is
the paragraph...:

"In the White House, as in the Clinton administration,
there is a belief among civilians that military technology has
advanced to the point where wars can be won with relatively few
ground forces. There will probably be a time in the future where
this is so. Until then, soldiers and marines, in large numbers, will
still be required to seize and hold terrain." General Hoar.

   Knowing nothing about General Hoar beyond this op ed
(attached), I emphatically disagree that wars can in any future be
won with fewer ground forces. In fact, technology is turning against
itself in modern war. Assuming 'nuking to glass' is not an option,
modern warfare relies mainly on planes and ships. As technology is
developing, more and more easily can ships be sunk and (in the not
too far future) planes downed. The types of attacks that General
Van Riper demonstrated against surface ships can be likened to the
invention of the longbow wherein simple rearrangements of known
and very available technology can completely alter the course of
warfare. Bows and arrows prior to the longbow were very old. But
some yeoman for some reason decided to wake up one day and
make himself a very long one. It pierced armor and this changed
everything. What an affront that a simple peasant could now take
out a knight. Mostly likely this affront was offensive to some uppity
knights, "Fought in many a battle and no yon yeoman will take out
me...!" "Perhaps, Sir Uppyhad, as you are so fond of your new
armor suit, you should, before you ride out there, stuff yon pig in
your old armor and see what Yeoman York can do with his bow at
sixty paces."

   The body politic of Norfolk had refused, nearly a year ago,
(and prior to Van Riper's revelations), a simple demonstration
wherein with the help of an expert local fisherman, such as Robert
Holloway, a few Exotic missiles would be hidden on the seabed.
One of those many derelicts on the James River could be anchored
out in the Chesapeake. The navy could run through with as many
sonar devices, dolphins, or drones as they wished. If they located
the missiles, fine. If not the missiles would pop from the seabed,
take out the derelict, and provide an excellent fishing ground for the
local sportsman. The ship would be sunk. The city that hosted
Billy Mitchell could not even give the time of day to Yeoman York.
 
   With technology turning upon itself, the day that Third
World powers can easily down sophisticated warplanes is not far
off. These technologies will quickly go so far beyond devices such
as the 'Stinger' that the 'Stinger' would be more like Washington
putting a chain across the Hudson. You need not destroy the plane,
just the electronics. Energy directed technologies are in their
infancy, but as they do develop will spread cheaply and easily. I
have had some correspondence with Alex Frolov in Leningrad on
this matter. He was in some manner attached to the Russian Navy
as he had an <...@admiral.ru> address, but is now in charge of
something called the Faraday Institute. As to what is now available
compared to what will be in the very near future he stated that what
is now available are, "....Toys, mere toys."
 
   Norfolk reaction? I would expect more head-in-sand, more
sea drone contracts and calls to see how one could invest in
hardened circuit technology. More dangerous assumptions.
Perhaps it could be put another way. One could imagine that a
multibillion dollar satellite could spot a light infantry platoon most
anywhere on earth, and indeed it most probably could. But it
should be realized that the day is soon where that multibillion dollar
satellite would become at target of a light infantry platoon most
anywhere on earth. Tech turns upon itself, low beating high.

   Will ever the day come when, as General Hoar suggests, the
Senate would hold hearings that would be broad and deep enough
to be reasonable? Who exactly would host those hearings?
Virginia's Armed Services head, Senator Warner? Norfolk should
know better than to wait on that frigid hour of Hades!
 
   Once again there has been a raid upon my stack of
NYTimes to start the wood stove, and I am at loss to remember the
Russian general's name who was advising Saddam Hussein. If this
is the general that I am thinking of, he is a man of no mean
experience and talent, and was in no manner incompetent but
merely tardy. Would anyone on that never-to-be Senate hearing
even go as far as to contemplate what would have happened had this
Russian general had say three or four years preparation and
Rumsfeld's initial plan was used? Or have the vision to see what
this could have been like five years down the road with even the
'best' plan?

   Jean and I had dinner at Kelly's in Ghent. A stately, elderly
couple came in and sat at an adjoining table. He was a retired Army
officer from Portsmouth, and she had some sort of position in Joint
Forces Command. We chatted on many of these subjects, and his
final reaction was, "....Yes, and I have been feeling and saying this
for years. We are doomed. We are doomed. We are doomed."
Yes, but whose fault, and is there even mollifying remedy?

   Using the collective pronoun, I would say it is your fault, Doc,
the fault of Norfolk body politic. The 'retired generals' that
Rummy was defensively belching about were late, only speaking up
when a near disaster approached. And where has been the historical
center of this voice? Norfolk. Where else could you point the
blame, Doc? Fargo? Cedar Rapids? Muncie?

     Perhaps you might think I went on too much concerning the
lack of upscale policing in Norfolk, but I am trying to point out what
this is symptomatic of. Donna Britt, a Norfolk Councilwoman,
must go as far as file a protective Racketeering case against the
NPD..., a case before Masonic One Jerome Freedman who
dishonorably slaps thirty grand against her, and forces her to realize
that she must somehow go beyond the 'packed' Fourth Circuit to
get any semblance of justice. Would this happen in other cities? I
don't think so. I have been asked on the East stand more than once
if I thought the NPD officer that was helping her was murdered in
Chesapeake. Car 28 or 36, at any rate the retired Chesapeake police
officer, asked on a number occasions. I have not a clue, but would
certainly not be surprised. The nation's phone companies, by RR
Donnelley proxy, set up telemarketing centers at Military Circle
committing gross interstate banking card fraud throughout the
nation. There is not one other city in the United States where such
gross, widely known about, white collar crime could go on without
either the local DAs or DoJ slapping a RICO charge against these
people. And with all this bloody murder after bloody murder after
bloody murder. Such as the former wife of Colonel Griggs
(Suzanne Werkman), a crushed skull type of heart failure. Or the
World Trade accountant (or secretary to Jerome Booken-Weiner)
who took a James Forrestal type 'assisted' header out of an Old
Dominion window. The poor fellow who took a header of the
Lesner Bridge into a mud flat in 84, Les Andrews. Upscale he was
not, but even a cursory investigation would have seen what upscale
situation his libido was interfering with. Norfolk Traffic might
consider "Watch Out For Falling Bodies" signs. What about the
murder of Peter Fitzpatrick? He was NY World Trade Center, but
certainly his murder came about because of his knowledge of
Norfolk World Trade Center. A wonderful man. And George
Heilig...? ! Good Lord, Doc, you even murder your State Senators.
And Dr. Praudy Tate? Murdered. Richard Obenschein, murdered.
Without going on to a list that could go for pages, just to mention a
few Norfolk murders with international implications.
Oh, lets mention a few more murders...: The former Pilot
editor's (Perry Morgan) wife, Bunny. John S. Waller's wife,
Noani. Oh yes, that was Walter, Todd and Sadler architects. Did
what? Oh, yes SACLANT. So many wives knew too much. What
were they? More Forrestal headers or just poisonings? High end?
What about Winsor Castle's Lord Halifax and his wife, Lady
McMillan? That was London, but they had just transferred from
Norfolk. Of course. What was the real estate company involved in
the Norfolk World Trade, 'top floor'. Goodman, Hogan, Segar?
Many of these 84, "Year of the spy", but they continue.

   What about the murder of the French national wife of the
Ponce naval officer? I forget the Lieutenant's name except that his
then mother-in-law is Francine Pellegrin (also French national) who
now lives in South Carolina. Knowledge of some laptops. The
French government did not understand? They are what, Dr. Odom,
stupid? Just rename French fries as 'Ghent fries' takes care of that,
right? International? Drive down to 25th Street on the Oceanfront
and read the second, smaller bronze plate on the statue of the
Norwegian Lady. Murdered in Moss, Norway because it might
have canceled a Norwegian 'trust checking' trip. Granted that the
Norwegian Lady protects one of the largest international private
trusts ever. The Oceanfront statue here is owned by Norway, and
the twin statue in Moss owned by a Virginia corporation. Here,
back in the age of sail, a Norwegian sea captain, just trading in good
Norwegian wood for what everyone needed - barrel staves,
managed to collect together some large international trusts that grew
and grew. Now large and sensitive enough of a situation that on at
least one occasion the King and Queen of Norway popped over to
NOB to check on this. But some would think this need fall only to
the 'right' hands. Whatever that would be. The Norwegian Lady is
known to be the subject of continual Israeli snooping. You are a
man of some means, Doc. How would your departed ghost feel if,
for example, if Judy was by conniving and illegal means stripped
from the benefits of your will? Do you not think even casual
visitors to Norfolk hear of these things? Of course they do.

   And so why is this? It is because Norfolk has been
completely cowed by a few well organized dishonorable men who,
privy to 'grander' international agreements, travel the world from
Norfolk to meet with other 'bunker boys' in silly little bunkers in
stupid caps and capes giving themselves little smarmy initiations and
knighthoods. When Jean and I took leave of the retired Army
officer and his lady friend I said how glad that I had spent time in
Norfolk, stating that Norfolk is a serious city that handles the serious
issues. We mused then that present Norfolk would have the same
undercurrents and tones as those pregnant months and weeks just
prior to the Civil War. But agreed too that now the important talk is
suppressed beyond any value. How better could I put this, Doc?
For every one of those on an almost endless list of high end Norfolk
murders how many people per murder are simply intimidated and
cowed into silence? How many are just threatened? Were I a
centipede I would not have enough fingers and toes to count the
number of times I have heard that the head of Norfolk Naval NIS
beats his Filipino wife. Allegations, yes, but when Norfolk smoke
covers most the Eastern Seaboard there must be some fire
someplace. Just exactly how does a sailor sitting on an NOB or
NAB quarterdeck feel sitting under the pasty smile of CNO Vern
Clark, when so many know, to various degrees granted, that the
very best and most loved of Clark's predecessors was murdered.
That was a Norfolk planned and arranged murder too, Pentagon or
not. Even I was surprised at how many either sense or believe fully
Boorda was murdered. And absolutely I know how the sailors feel.
I have talked to so many. It varies from sullen to angry.

   It is joked about that SACLANT is Israeli wired to the tee.
Of this I don't know. But do understand that the same Lynnhaven
firm built the Norfolk World Trade, wired for sure, housing such
things as Norfolk Office, Department of Justice. Oh yes, Waller
again. Waller, Todd and Sadler. As in older sensitive military
facility building firms such as Proudfoot, these are super insider
companies.

   Whereas some high end military murders such as Marine
Colonel Sabow or Colonel Agenbroad in El Toro get at least some
coverage, in Norfolk such murders 'just don't happen'.

   As we left the trendy joke around Norfolk was this...:
"Imagine a big plate of spaghetti. Now imagine a whole shaker of
military unit markers. Shake them over the spaghetti. Now, of
course, you need some arrows. So, you have another shaker of
little arrows, some straight, some curved. Shake the arrows on.
OK. What have you got...........? That's General Montgomery and
General Patton's assault on Sicily reworked by Rumsfeld's Joint
Forces Command."

     Unfortunately the real humor of this will be lost in the
present erstwhile triumph. What really happened is that Rummy et
al used a good concept, services better working together, to hide
within that a very deliberately scrambled mess, instances where at
times a jr. officer in one service would outrank a senior officer of
another, etc., to hide mechanisms where no one except very deep
insiders would know what is going on. Then bury these
mechanisms with bunker boys in Tampa, or, as he even
contemplated, and tried to do, take the 'war making' out of Norfolk
and bury it in yet another bunker in Colorado. Who does all the
hiding serve?

   The final and complete loss, the final nail in the coffin that
had Norfolk loose influence in NATO, and therefore the world was
when Rumsfeld attempted to place Admiral Edmond P.
Giambastiani as head of the traditionally combined and traditionally
American positions of Joint Forces Command and NATO Atlantic
Command replacing Kernan. How on lizard's earth did Rummy
ever think Giambastiani could get confirmed by NATO? Obviously
Rummy thought he could get away with this or he would have never
made the attempt. Certainly no one else thought so. People
everywhere, I among them, were writing friends in Europe asking
them to write their particular defense ministries saying, God forbid.
Don't confirm him. And in Prague Giambastiani was not
confirmed. Giambastiani might make a good corporation officer,
but he had never even commanded a warship and was certainly,
though field grade, not a field officer. Obvious to the world was
that Giambastiani's only real qualification was his history of sucking
up to Rummy. This left a mess wherein a complete loss is called a
'transition', and a British Admiral, Ian Forbes, is left in charge of a
string of nearly empty desks. However did Norfolk let this happen?
Norfolk is a serious city, and as the sun sets over the bay and
Caleb's pond in Waquoit I have many memories. We went to hear
Admiral Stansfield Turner speak at a community college in
Hampton. The audience was a surprising mere smattering. A few
kids, most likely only there to complete some ploy sci assignments
and some scattered crusty yawning gray haired men and bejewelled
blue hairs who gaffed at, "You may fire when ready, Gridley."
And the former CIA head even had a handler! He can't speak for
himself? The questions had to be passed up and edited in or out by
some bearded worm. I had a choice of either penning a question
that would easily be accepted, or asking one that would make the
little beard choke. I chose the latter, concerning flight 800 and
watched him read it three times glaring menacing around the
audience as he placed it on the bottom of the pack.
I took Car 2 all the way to DC to hear Admiral Moore speak
on the twenty year old Liberty attack. A day's lease out of pocket
was certainly worth that. I was invited by Jose Linde. Her father
was for some time the president of Time. Her brother was the
senior naval intelligence officer on the Liberty. He was told by the
captain to go as high as he could to identify the planes. They
strafed him, and came back some time later to strafe, against
Geneva convention, his dead body on a stretcher. Moore spoke at
the Army Navy Club on Faraget Square, and though packed with
admirals, the crowd nearly genuflected when the former Chief of
Staff came in with his stately wife. Admiral Moore had for many
years supported Commander Donaldson's investigation of flight
800. The world lost a brave and honest man when the Commander
died of brain cancer. I had for some years on lists agreed with the
Commander's findings, but argued against his conclusion that it was
just terrorism. Then again, Donaldson had admitted, most clearly in
a radio broadcast, that his expertise was limited to air crash
investigations, and until that time had mainly believed what he read
in the press. Hundreds of witnesses saw in video the missile hit the
plane right on CNN. And about as many witnesses swear on Bibles
that they watched CNN news all during that time and saw no such
video. Both groups told the truth. For the public that did not
believe the first story, a secondary lie was covertly created. This
was that flight 800 was some US naval exercise where there was an
'error'. Books were subsidised and many fell for this. I had
maintained on the flight 800 list that it was a payback, agreed to by
all, after the US was found cheating on the most serious deal on the
planet, the old non-use-of-nukes deal. Certainly the gross variation
in the CNN witnesses fit this picture and none other. CNN is cable,
and a limited viewing, for sting, would seem to have been part of
the deal. Great effort was made to spin the testimony of the
witnesses, Perry et al, on Fire Island, who saw a naval vessel very
close to the beach. They stated that the warship had "...A very
large globe on it..," making other statements to indicate that the
globe was unusually large. They were then showed (by who?) a
very small picture of an American destroyer out of Jane's. This
picture was so small that little 'balloons' were used, much like the
speech balloons in cartoons which, if you did not look close,
merged with the outline. There is only one warship on the planet
that fits the visual description. It is not American, but a British
frigate, the H.M.S. Norfolk! At that time it was commanded by a
British officer, until then a submariner, who ended up as the recent
Deputy Atlantic Command, NATO, stationed at Norfolk. He left
that post about six months ago, (sorry that the admiral's name slips
me). I understand that he made some pithy remarks at a going away
function that was open to the public. I could never find out the vein
of those remarks, but sorry I missed that. To some extent I
prevailed well on the flight 800 list. Though could offer no proof of
my contentions many emailed me on the side saying that I had the
only scenario that fit all the evidence. And a number of those
added, in one way or another, that if what I was saying was true, it
was just so huge and awful to contemplate. And that I understand.
Norfolk and the military presence has sobered and matured me.
230 innocent lives were lost on 800. Slowly, over the years in
Norfolk, I went from playing '...ain't it awful..' games in my head
concerning those lives to appreciating the awesome and august
decisions that must be made my senior military men, men who were
given situations they did not create. Now, I would say that we all
were, to one degree or another, responsible for those lives by
ignoring the completely illogical theatre we have been given by the
mass media concerning the nuclear issue.
        I was blessed by having wonderful employers in Norfolk.
Southern Pest Control, off Lynnhaven in the Beach, was also a well
managed, family held company where I often returned to visit while
driving for you. For about eight months there I went through some
sort of unofficial 'intake' or something by the Navy. Soon after I
started an active duty SEAL, a non com, Chief Chuck Awanna took
the desk across from me. The Chief was a man of broad
intelligence and well versed in many areas and issues. Within a few
days we got into a conversation on some issues. Chuck he said that
he wanted to talk about these issues, but cautioned me that he would
only talk if I used no specific names. I certainly thought that odd,
but soon was to discover, both by his admission and the office
poop, that he was on some sort of special assignment reporting
directly to the Pentagon. Never once did management ever so much
as blink at the inordinate amount of time for eight full months we
spent outside talking instead of working. It became obvious not
only to myself, but the whole office, that I was the 'assignment' as
he could, with the hours, spend no more than an hour a day at Little
Creek. Soon the 'no proper name' restriction was lifted (by
whom?) and these broad discussions were, for me, a breath of fresh
air. The desks were close, and a few times he would make a loud
remark to another, in one case concerning 800, that I right after (but
too late) saw was designed to test the firmness of my convictions on
certain issues. There were areas that I would not go to, felt them
too personal, and possibly damaging to parties to no good cause. I
was, a number of times tested in that specific area, and in one very
open exchange, as some information was concocted to see if I
would play into it, I replied so all could hear, "....You can turn that
scouting boat back north, Chief." I mused at times that the proper
names that both Chuck's handlers and I were avoiding were the
same. Chuck was after many months replaced, this time an officer
named Lenny who I found dull and simply avoided. Though there
was much comfort in being able to discuss issues with aware and
believing people, a feeling of 'in from the cold', even then the lack
of committing them to paper, of the possibility of some larger effect
was missing. I have more than half completed a book covering
these subjects, JOHN ( Lehman, Head of Secret Government,
Leader of the New World Order) & 'SCARLET'. Of the
publishers I have contacted, either they just wanted it sent to them to
gather information (with no intention of publishing) or they are
simply afraid. So, Doc, I thank you for this opportunity.

   You, Doc, like Buck Kernan, are very private. Besides
hearing that you are 'conservative', as friendly as you are, you are
not forward with opinion. With that in mind, I know I take some
risk if I proffer some remedy to the generalized failings I tossed on
Norfolk. Yet I know I will have no other opportunity to speak out.
But, for what it is worth...; I believe the problem lies in the body
politic of Norfolk. And this a conglomeration of ideas. Most all of
the political ideas are created or controlled in Norfolk by the media.
The ability to directly influence media in Norfolk is zero. But
indirectly? In the year prior to 9/11 whose opinions in the general
population were the media kingpins most concerned about? That is
easy, just go back and see what segment of the population they were
polling. The media polled in great depth the attitudes of American
military officers and retired officers. With designs on Iraq the
media knew that the masses minds would be easy. Not as easy to
control the minds of those more versed in war. If you would do
anything with this letter, Doc, place it those hands.

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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The fall of Norfolk
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 11:05:14 AM »
   The schizophrenic split of the mass mind over the nuclear
issue is at the root of a major portion of the world's problems.
'Secret government' therefore loves works such as Hunt For Red
October to reinforce the lie. In the real 'naval world' those cold war
games only went on in certain 'play pens' (agreed on areas) so that
war would not break out by accident. Yet some portion of the
world's top military leaders had to know the truth. This is why for
some period of time the expression within the officer corps was "...
If you f**k up..., you move up...." Meaning that 'secret
government' felt more comfortable promoting officers who they had
something on. If an officer suddenly became aware of the secret
non-use-of-nuke agreements, and wanted to 'blow the whistle' on
this, who could they 'blow the whistle' to? The media? Forget it!
One officer did know of these agreements, did not agree with them,
but put this inside knowledge to great use. Or at least under the
zeitgeist of the times, the best use possible. This was Admiral
Rickover. Although common knowledge had it that Hymen
Rickover held great sway over Congress, it is never stated as to
exactly what that sway was. It was the non-use-of-nuke deal secret.
With that he could go specifically to those Senators, House
members, and White House staff who did know and built an inside
reputation as someone who 1- did not agree, and 2- would not spill
the beans. Reasonably these men would want Rickover kept in
power as a check against a giant secret that common sense would
see dangers in. In is also interesting to note (see Making War,
published by McMillian) that John Lehman made no bones about
getting rid of Rickover being his first priority.
In the late 1980s two Communist Chinese Air Force
Colonels wrote a book called Unrestricted War. The book caused
some international stir at the top, more so as it was published not
long after the revealing 'surprise Soviet naval maneuvers' of mid
March 1984. The main point of the book was that war in this
technological age could get quickly out of hand. Weapons could
develop so quickly that there would be no chance to 'outlaw' them.
War could quickly destroy world economy. At least that is what I
think the main point of the book was. This was from reading the
short remarks about the book by this or that columnist. The book
itself, after causing such a stir, has still not been translated. Why? I
would suspect that it would, directly or indirectly, have to make
some of the same points I am making here!

   Returning to General Hoar's comments: "...Nobody outside
a small circle of players knows exactly who developed the plan for
this invasion or what the prevailing views were...."
In fact, the thinking was so insular that it became dangerously crazy.
At the last minute the better of America's field grade officers stood
up and yelled "...Nuts...!" just in time. It is because of these large
'nuke secrets' that the insiders feel they must develop plans within a
tight circle. Meaning that there is sure to be a repeat of this
dangerous insular thinking. The problem lies more in the
circumstances than the personalities such a Rumsfeld. Let us hope
that the general irritation of Rumsfeld's personality bring the right
sort of attention to the problem. Let us hope that the body politic
not see just His Irritation as the problem.

   Under the present 'grand secret' sound thinking on military
matters is almost impossible. At the top level the nuclear issue is
factored out of the thinking, but kept in the public's mind. The
Soviets understood the implications of the sinking of the Sheffield
twenty years ago. They knew also that only a small portion of
American military leaders could put that new information into
perspective. If the nuclear issue was factored out, what could then
happen if missiles could easily take out surface ships?
(Remembering then, way prior to General Van Riper, that the
missiles would most likely do damage fired from subs.) Although
the Soviets and the Chinese have only defensive navies, (not meant
to project power overseas), they could now inflict major damage on
Lehman's 'forward navy'. So sometime in 1983 the United States
was warned. March 15th 1984 came the Soviet demonstration.
Suddenly all levels of talk...; diplomatic, back channel,
steganography etc. was cut off. The Leningrad battlegroup and her
consorts were in Cuba. As they unexpectanly steamed up the
Eastern Seaboard, three other Soviet battle groups emerged. They
were not engaged. Shortly later front page NYTimes, Drew
Middleton (military editor) talks about these 'maneuvers' being
"...Without warning." So what? Isn't that what the movies are
telling us about the cold war cat and mouse games at sea?
Apparently not. Drew Middleton goes on to state that if this was to
happen again that Secretary of the Navy, John Lehman, (not the
President) would issue standing orders to US front line battle group
commanders to use nuclear weapons.

        What? Well, for one thing, such a message could only come from
the person really in charge, not the 'President'. But oddly enough
this was front page NYTimes with no other discussion or reference
by the media. The military mind is now talking on so many
conflicting levels it cannot reason. So the decisions are left to the
small circle of deep insiders that General Hoar talked about above.
And it will happen again and again. Each time far more
dangerously.

   Perhaps, Doc, you asked me to write another 'political'
piece because I correctly predicted that Turkey would turn against
us. The Pundits here called Turkey's decision short sighted,
assuming it was for some short term financial goals. And also that
they made the 'wrong' decision in retrospect. But I assumed then,
as I do now, that the remains of the Ottoman Empire has longer
memories and can see, therefore, better into the future. How many
wars were fought with the Hapsburgs, the Romanovs, and the
Osmanlis family of Turkey being the main players?

   Is there any doubt that again there will be differences of
opinions between 'the generals' and this small inner group? But the
odds will keep growing against another last minute save. A
reckoning, a bloody Waterloo, will surely come. Unless there is
great alteration in the group mind of Norfolk. But what are the
odds of that...?

   At optimum you might invite that Russian general to
Norfolk. Or better yet, invite Admiral Yurchenko. If you
remember he was the Soviet naval intelligence admiral who defected
to the US, then walked out of a DC restaurant and re defected back.
I understand he hangs around the Moscow clubs sipping vodka
martinis. He might enjoy Virginia under more relaxed
circumstances. One thing for sure, Doc...: If you made such an
initiative, you would immediately be approached by this 'secret
government' trying to control the entire process. The Israelis would
crawl out of the Norfolk woodwork.

   How does the rest of the nation look at Norfolk, Virginia,
Doc? Can you now imagine what the wives of Norfolk stationed
sailors, all those Jennifers and Nancys and Susans and Karens, from
the Joplins or Knoxvilles or Greenboros or Rapid Cities think of
Norfolk? Or tell their moms and dads when they go home?
"...Norfolk like? Gee, Dad, I mean a little weird. Like you gotta
be careful walking downtown, like you could be hit by people being
pushed out of buildings, you know. Like the only work we could
get are like these phone jobs where you like cheat people. Or, like,
you know, like you can walk around the poorer neighborhoods,
like. But if you are in a rich neighborhood, and you like see
someone who looks, you know like rich like, and they are covered
with blood or look like they have been shot or something..., well
then, like you know, they say it is best to keep walking and talk
about the weather or something, you know. And, like you know,
those wives who get mistreated or threatened by their husbands,
and navy, then, you know, like you better keep you mouth shut.
You never, like, go to to anyplace that advertises to help you. But
the weather is like really cool, like it is warm alot...."

   Norfolk, Virginia where they cannot even be trusted to have
their own media. The Pilot is quietly owned by the New York
Times with Lyn Figenbaum quietly in the Pilot background
censoring all touchy stories. Even the free paper, Port Folio, is
quietly owned by the Pilot and by proxy the Times. The Daily Press
on the Peninsula? That is owned by the Chicago Tribune.

   Norfolk military wives know. One Catholic church
advertised in the self help program for naval wives in abusive
situations. There they were met by hench-hens of Myra Obendorf
who threatened them even further. One hench-hen, the organizer,
lives across the street from Myra. Total control. At the very least
Norfolk should make some public safety adjustments. New York
City has alternate-side-of-the-street parking. Perhaps Norfolk could
have alternate-side-of-the-street walking. Understand, Doc, I'm
not suggesting all over Norfolk, just those areas with windows high
enough where the bodys would splat as sure kills.
Colonel Griggs was known to boast over and over that his
position in the Marines was just a "...Hat..." that he wore, just
"...An act...". And boasted also, during the Cold War, that at
"...His level..., We and the commies are really friends..." Is that
the 'real' Norfolk? It is now.

   Military sense is a function of Norfolk. As say 'Theater' is a
function of New York. Imagine what type of theater would come
out of Manhattan if there producers were afraid they may fly out of
skyscraper windows if the thinking in their musicals were not
'proper'? Or if the lyricists at parties did not eat fearing that
perhaps the soup would be poisoned....? Or that even while travel
in the ghettos of New York was now completely safe, travel in
upscale neighborhoods of Manhattan such as Park Avenue became
too risky given the amount of falling bodies and car bombings?
Certainly, Doc, you remember those types of musicals. They were
just like those that came out of Moscow over the last fifty years.
Why most of the world's population between eight and eighty can at
least whistle the tunes, if not sing every word of greats such as....
"We smile with pleasure as we rush mornings to the factory" or
"Staaaaaaa....lingrad..., where the vultures swirl in lovely curls."

   Is this harsh or silly? The Virginian Pilot stated that the
admiral now assigned to the study of the littorals, the smaller naval
vessels, was considering catamarans as well as trimarans. For the
same reason the 'critics' dared not pan "....Mornings To The
Factory," Norfolk body politic did not run down to the Pilot
demanding to know what the hell the Pilot was printing. A military
town even a little less cowed would had been tearing down the
Pilot's doors. There would be screams of "My son just joined the
Marines. He could be transported on those boats. Are you trying
to tell me that in an age of sea bed missiles a catamaran comes
anywhere near having the protection of a trimaran with a center
protected hull...? !" Or, "Just two hulls....? You should be
thinking of a tri-hull with a fourth hull towed behind as a barge...,
carrying a steel net to unravel and skirt the tri-hull as needed..."
Or more simply, "String that so-called admiral up by his thumbs,"
and "Hang the editors !" But not Norfolk. Where common sense
can see sailors and marines blown to bits, body parts strewn for
sharks, Norfolk can only cow lockstep to the butt-banging spy tunes
from "My Fair Comrade".

   Thanks again, Doc. It has been a pleasure working for you
and your family.
Sincerely,Michael Donovan
 
ps.....:
I want to give a little more clarity to the litoral problem. But
in order to do this, Doc, I must ask you to do a little Internet
reading. First do a general search for "Lt. General Paul Van Riper".
Read a few articles on the war game, enough to get a feel. You will
see that the big thing left out of them is exactly how his missiles
were launched. They do not mention the sea bed. Instead they go
on about the type of attack, a 'swarm attack'. Yes, the attack
planning was brilliant, but looking at just that misses the point. It is
the seabed 'longbow' issue that is most important. So although Van
Riper is brilliant, the point is that any third world power can now
inflict major damage on surface ships. Remember Bernard Shaw's
Don Juan's retort to the Commander in Pygmalion, "Even a stupid
general can will when the opposing general is just a little bit
stupider."

   Now, on the Van Riper Internet search scroll down to
something that he wrote in 1998, it is the only thing with that year
on it, and only about four pages long. Now read what he states
about present military thinking. And language !!! After that just
punch up the word 'littoral' on a general search. For example read
the Navy League article by John P. Walman. Garbage. In no way
is the full extent of the problem described, no less addressed. Want
to get real bad? Look at 'Chaos In The Littorals, Anarchic War
And The United States Marine Corps' by Major Francis L.
Donovan. If this is not an example of the stupidness of language
and thought that Van Riper is talking about, I don't know what is.
It is pure 'mil babble'. Somewhere buried in the piece it states that
underwater magnetic surveillance is the best bet. But does not state
how bad a bet. Pop-ups could be hidden with known wrecks. And
think what havoc sand-hidden dummy metal balls or electric
magnets would create!

   Further it is not just a littoral problem. Were I your third
world enemy, I might not even mess around with that. I would
simply sink one of your carriers. And I would target first the
Stennis and the Enterprise as they are non nuclear. With that the
point would be made, "You bomb the hell out of us, and we can't
sink your other carriers as it would create environmental
horror....? Up yours...." Difficult? Doc, after searching for
nearly fifty years you just located a sunken Japanese sub right
outside of Pearl Harbor.

   Let us look at recent naval history. After the H.M.S.
Sheffield was sunk it still did not sink in as to vulnerable carrier
battlegroups had become. It took Konstantin Chernenko's scary
demonstration a few years later to fully make that point. Lehman
summed up the problem with the phrase "....The seas are becoming
more opaque....", meaning that the technology for hiding
submarines was fast outstripping the technology for finding them.
The public was simply not told the implications. Instead little insider
snippets hit the columnists. Such as..., "Which way does the statue
of Samual Elliot Morrison on Boston Common face...?" Yes, it
faces East.

   Then it became obvious that submarines could do far more
damage than before. Though, for example, China's navy cannot
project power, (it is designed as a defensive navy), it has around
sixty subs, simple diesel and more quite, that could do major
damage. In the late eighties China held one of her rare large naval
maneuvers. She demonstrated that she could close the Straits of
Malacca. How many sailors in the United States Navy understand
this? Before it was shown what third world countries could now do,
this was just ignored because the butt bangers were 'friends
anyway' and could just make 'deals'. Is it any wonder the US
military can no longer think straight? Funny if it were not so
dangerous.

I have slept with Billy Bones
And I have sailed with John Paul Jones
The rattles of sea battles
Are the marrow of my bones
Down past Battle Harbour
Past the Straits of Old Belle Isle
Past again the Straits of Cabot
Past where the tide goes up a mile
Is there still a Vineyard ?
Midst the mists of Avalon ?
Where the worst of heaven mixes
With the best of Babylon ?
Mates around we are all, on this
ball of straits and sounds
And the coming comet comments,
on the epoch of our bounds

from China Talks, Michael Donovan, 1984

        Added is a letter and ‘Billy Mitchell’ challenge to
Colonel Paul Worcester: Wing Commander, 102 Fighter Wing102nd
Fighter Wing

        Dear Colonel Worcester,

   In Norfolk, Virginia I proposed a demonstration to
show that sea bed launched missiles were far greater a threat
than is being recognized. I got nowhere. (See enclosed letter
to my former employer) In a recent New York Times article CNO,
Admiral Vernon Clark, quoted as saying that all assumptions
should be challenged. That is pure crap, Col. Worcester. Further,
the CNO must know his statement is pure crap. If Norfolk cannot
rise to the challenge, perhaps Cape Cod can.

   For one thing, it would greatly effect the design of
the littorals. It is not that the talent is not there for correct
design, it is that the design is based on false assumptions. Take,
for example, the design of the new DD 21 Land Attack class destroyer...:
the ship is not only designed to meet, as best it can, all general
threat, but it is to boot a beauty. The lines are best seen
in pictures that are, from the air, at about a 45 degree angle.
These are the lines of a Herreshoff or an Alden. Does Bath Iron
Works even credit the designer? No. They only credit a 'design team'.
Committees produce camels. The DD 21 is a horse. Is Bath is ashamed
of the designer? Perhaps he is some 25 year old with
green hair and so much body piercings that he looks like he fell face
first into a tackle box.

   The false assumption in regard to the littoral boats is that
they can avoidhits. The admiral in charge is even going for "...
Speed.... " For what? Outrunningmissiles? Just the language used in
the littoral problem is such convoluted mil babble that it does not
make sense. Just what is meant by "...Anarchic..." or "...
Asymmetrical forces..."? Such as whose? George Washington's? Have
they missed such basics that men in arms for a purpose is an army, and
that a gun is a gun is a gun? It seems that only an open 'Billie Mitchell'
style demonstration can wake up the admiralty. And if a 'fresh approach'
is needed, perhaps the Air Force should supply it. This is my proposal....:
A derelict is provided from the James River. It is anchored some place
off of Cape Cod. I am provided with three Exocit missiles and with this
enough divers, decoys, and such that could be obtained in any Third
World nation. I would need a local fisherman with good bottom knowledge
such as Sleepy Baker. The missiles are hidden on the bottom. The navy
has one pass through using all the bored dolphins and Mr. Ken Jordan's
electronic bottom feeders it desires. If the missiles are located they win.
If not the missiles pop up, sink the derelict, and provide a great fishing
spot for local sportsman.

   In the Gary Cooper movie, The Trial Of Billy Mitchell, General
Pershing was not portrayed as some villain. He sincerely thought that
other priorities were more important for the protection of his men in
future battles. It may be that CNO, Admiral Clark is not avoiding the issue,
but is just plain flat out stupid. As a demonstration was needed
then and provided, a demonstration is quite obviously needed now.
Churchill once stated that "...It is dangerous to argue with admirals...."
Perhaps it would take a Wing Commander to make the point.
        
        Sincerely, Michael Donovan michael1@midcoast.com
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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Military Sex Rings
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2008, 11:06:32 AM »
Kay Pollard Griggs
RE: MILITARY SEX RING
Tue Mar 15, 2005 16:42
http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/03-17-05/discussion.cgi.76.html

 
http://www.american-buddha.com/semper.fidelis.htm

[SNIP]
In 1987 Herndon was Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps under General Al Gray. One of Gray’s immediate subordinates was Colonel George Griggs. As Grigg’s wife, Kay Pollard Griggs, told the author, “Army General Carl Stiner, Marine General Jim Joy, General Charles Wilhelm, head of Marine Southern Command - part of Joint Special Operations Command, and my husband who worked under him at the State Department - they’re all Al Gray’s boys. They do the assassinations. Say if they’ve got someone who’s talking too much. Gray will say, ‘We’ve got a problem....’


According to Griggs, Gray is heavily involved in drug-smuggling. Herndon was stationed in Panama - a key drug transshipment point - and had a key position with Special Operations (CIA), training death squads in Central America.

“They train assassins,” says Griggs. “It’s called the Phoenix Program, but it involves mind-control.... It’s an old boy network, it’s an institution, and it’s run through the State Department....


As Griggs says, “Herndon is one of Al Gray’s boys.”
[SNIP]
http://www.american-buddha.com/semper.fidelis.htm


The Center for Security Policy
... former US Marine Corps Commandant General Al Gray and the former Commanding
General US Army, Europe, General David Maddox -- have joined fourteen other, ...

================

Bush.html
... Other sources backing up the pedophile allegations are Kay Pollard Griggs,
wife of high-ranking “insider” Marine Colonel George Griggs—tied to Oliver ...
http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_world_class_criminal.html

=====================


Why would the US military ignore 9-11 and other crimes?

These excerpts from 8 hours of interview of Kay Griggs (available at 888-820-2126) show one reason.
http://www.hugequestions.com/

==========================
[snip]
But just to wrap up, a few comments. Thanks also to other researchers who responded to my original letters to Fornai & Franco: Eleanor White, Katherine Sullivan, Roy Bercaw, Paul Pietzonka, Kay Pollard Griggs, Patty Rehn, Janine Jones and last but not least, Tambra Marie Shelton, who made it possible for us to learn something more of the aberrant
psychology of the perps firsthand by providing Fornai's most recent letter.
http://www.newsmakingnews.com/vm,quig,6,23,03.htm

---------------------------------------

Documents 1 - 6 of 6 matches. More 's indicate a better match.

Fall Of Norfolk Ii
... to former agent Hunter a few months before I started driving for Cab Co. He almost choked when I told him what I thought of it..., "...Bull". He also went to a book signing where I had some friends. One of my friends, Kay, came to the head of the book signing line and in sweet southern drawl lashed into him as in..., "...Haaave you, sir, no shame at aaaallll in this...," and non stop on and on. John Hunter went red faced with this and tried to get out ...
http://sitbot.net/htm/18908.html 12/19/04, 52935 bytes

Fall Of Norfolk Ii
... /letter from Michael Donovan. He has a lot of very interesting information for those who take the time to read his stuff. I came to know of Mr. Donovan from coming across him on a couple of email groups. He sure knows whereof he speaks. His friend Kay (Kathryn Pollard Miller) as mentioned in this piece, also has not been afraid to speak her mind, and of her experiences. You just don't hear this kind of truth most places. He also has a book online here: http://www.midcoast.com/~michael1/ norgesen ...
http://sitbot.net/htm/18909.html 02/13/05, 6876 bytes

Fall Of Norfolk Ii
... Of Norfolk II http://www.sitbot.net/htm/18907.html The Fall Of Norfolk I http://www.sitbot.net/htm/18908.html The Fall Of Norfolk II http://www.midcoast.com/~michael1/ Michael Donovan book online http://www.sitbot.net/cgi-bin/htsearch.cgi?words=Kay+Pollard+Griggs _________ What Michael Donovan says about the Norfolk nexus could explain whether Norfolk FBI's little rebellion against the 911 plot was strategically counter stovepipe or conscientious bumbling of the uninitiated. Norfolk FBI was informed ...
http://sitbot.net/htm/18922.html 02/13/05, 5350 bytes

Brian QuigVirginia Mccullough
... . KK Way to go, Kathy ! Need I say more ? But just to wrap up, a few comments. Thanks also to other researchers who responded to my original letters to Fornai & Franco: Eleanor White, Katherine Sullivan, Roy Bercaw, Paul Pietzonka, Kay Pollard Griggs, Patty Rehn, Janine Jones and last but not least, Tambra Marie Shelton, who made it possible for us to learn something more of the aberrant psychology of the perps firsthand by providing Fornai's most recent letter. Their ...
http://sitbot.net/htm/7559.html 12/19/04, 82911 bytes

Brian QuigVirginia Mcculloughnote: Forwarded Message At
... . KK Way to go, Kathy ! Need I say more ? But just to wrap up, a few comments. Thanks also to other researchers who responded to my original letters to Fornai & Franco: Eleanor White, Katherine Sullivan, Roy Bercaw, Paul Pietzonka, Kay Pollard Griggs, Patty Rehn, Janine Jones and last but not least, Tambra Marie Shelton, who made it possible for us to learn something more of the aberrant psychology of the perps firsthand by providing Fornai's most recent letter. Their ...
http://sitbot.net/htm/7639.html 12/19/04, 84362 bytes

Fall Of Norfolk Ii
... Of Norfolk II http://www.sitbot.net/htm/18907.html The Fall Of Norfolk I http://www.sitbot.net/htm/18908.html The Fall Of Norfolk II http://www.midcoast.com/~michael1/ Michael Donovan book online http://www.sitbot.net/cgi-bin/htsearch.cgi?words=Kay+Pollard+Griggs _________ What Michael Donovan says about the Norfolk nexus could explain whether Norfolk FBI's little rebellion against the 911 plot was strategically counter stovepipe or conscientious bumbling of the uninitiated. Norfolk FBI was informed ...
http://sitbot.net/htm/18941.html 02/13/05, 11738 bytes

======================

1989 story about Bush Sr. Whitehouse call Boy sex ring : SF Indymedia
... Here are a few links about elites involved in Child sex rings ... by the
Ministry of Defence to supply support services for military firing ranges. ...
MORE:>>

Child Sexual Abuse and the Shadow World of Freemasonry
... Satanic Subversion of the Military. Sex Slavery is Big Business in Europe ...
The Franklin Cover-up Scandal: The child sex ring that reached Bush/Reagan ...
http://www.the7thfire.com/child_sexual_abuse/ http://child_sexual_abuse_and_freemasonry_satanism_illuminati.htm

Navy Times - News - Special Reports
... I just read your piece in the Navy times on the Sex Slave issue in S. Korea.
... If we have a sex slave ring in Korea, it is because the government ...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=0-292236-535180.php

Results 1 - 10 of about 970,000 for Military Sex Ring
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Military+Sex+Ring&btnG=Search
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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General Jim Joy - Trauma Based Assasin Trainer and 9/11 Quote
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2008, 11:12:52 AM »
General James R. Joy
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Joy_James_119134019.aspx
Marine Corps Morwale
James's profile was created using:
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1-8 of 8 online sources for James Joy
A Tale of the Huguenots - [Cached Version]
Published on: 5/30/2005    Last Visited: 10/30/2006     

James Joy, a former Marine commander in Beirut, referred to the Sept. 11 terrorist attack on America during an address at the Beirut Memorial.

The sun shone brightly Tuesday as the statue of a lone Marine sentinel stood guard over memories nearly two decades old.

With the butt of his rifle on his hip and the muzzle pointed upward at 45 degrees, the statue separated two walls of the Beirut Memorial - one that said "They Came in Peace" and the other bearing the names of 241 service members killed by a terrorist bomb at a Marine Corps barracks in Beirut on Oct. 23, 1983.

Lining the wall of names were wreaths, pictures, bouquets, mementos, even an American flag clumsily pasted together by an elementary school student.
...
James R. Joy, a former Marine Corps commander in Beirut, brought the two acts of terrorism together in his address.Now all Americans, after watching hijacked airliners crash into the World Trade Center and Pentagon, can relate to the horror experienced by the U.S. military all over the world.

"Although we have been through the darkest of days, we will survive as a nation," Joy said.
 
Military Homosexual Pedophile Underground - [Cached Version]
Published on: 7/14/2006    Last Visited: 12/1/2007   

General Stiner and General Joy (also mentioned by Mrs Griggs) were heavily involved in Bush's invasion of Panama.
...
General Jim Joy:
...
James R. Joy

Brigadier General Jim R. Joy last served on active duty as the Director, Personnel Procurement Division, Manpower Department, Headquarters Marine Corps, Washington, D. C.

General Joy graduated from Northwest Missouri State University in 1957 with a B. S. degree in Education, and also holds an M. S. degree in Public Administration from George Washington University and an M. A. degree in Human Affairs from the University of Oklahoma.

Commissioned a second lieutenant in June 1957, he attended The Basic School at Quantico, Va., graduating in February 1958.From there, he reported to Camp Pendleton, Calif., where he served as a Platoon Leader with the 1st Marine Division, until February 1959.He was next ordered to duty aboard the aircraft carrier USS ORISKANY (CVA-34), as the Executive Officer of the ship's Marine Detachment.Following sea duty, General Joy spent the next three years with Headquarters and Headquarters Squadron, Marine Corps Air Station, Santa Ana, Calif., where he served consecutively as Adjutant, Executive Officer and Commanding Officer.During this tour, he was promoted to captain in June 1962.

In June 1963, General Joy received orders to Washington, D. C., for duty with the 13th Infantry Battalion, USMCR.He remained in this assignment until he deployed to Vietnam for duty with the 26th Marines.While in Vietnam he was promoted to major in February 1967.He returned to the United States in July 1967, and attended the Command and Staff College at Quantico.Upon graduation was assigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense in Washington, D.C.

He returned to Vietnam for duty as an advisor with the Vietnamese Marine Corps in July 1971, followed by duty in the Canal Zone, where he served Commanding Officer of the Marine Barracks, with additional duty as Marine Officer on the Staff of Commander, U.S. Naval Forces, Southern Command.He was promoted to lieutenant colonel in September 1973.

Transferred to the U.S., General Joy spent three years at Headquarters Marine Corps, Washington, D.C., in the Operations Division, Operations and Training Department.During academic year 1978-79, General Joy was a student at the Army War College, Carlisle Barracks, Pa., and upon graduation, he reported to Camp Lejeune for duty with the 2d Marine Division, serving initially as G-1, Commanding Officer of the 8th Marines and, for the last year, Chief of Staff.While in this assignment, he was promoted to colonel in July 1979.

General Joy was assigned duty as the Fleet Marine Officer on the Staff of Commander, 6th Fleet in May 1982.While serving in this capacity, he was selected in February 1983 for promotion to brigadier general.He was advanced to that grade on July 5, 1983 and assigned duty as the Assistant Division Commander, 2d Marine Division, FMF, Atlantic, Camp Lejeune, N.C., on August 2, 1983.During November he was assigned as the Commanding General of the 22d Marine Amphibious Unit in Lebanon.The following February, he became the Commander of Joint Task Force, Lebanon.He was assigned duty as the Deputy Commanding General, Marine Corps Recruit Depot Deputy Commanding General, Eastern Recruiting Region, Parris Island, S.C., on May 22, 1984.He served as Director Personnel Procurement from 1985-1988.

Upon retirement on June 1, 1988 he became Director of the Marine Corps Morwale, Welfare, and Recreation (MWR) programs, serving in that capacity until retirement on Noveber 1, 1996.

His medals and decorations include: Defense Superior Service Medal, the Purple Heart, Legion of Merit with Combat "V" and three gold stars in lieu of fourth award; the Bronze Star Medal with Combat "V", the Joint Service Commendation Medal; Navy Commendation Medal with Combat "V", the National Defense Service Medal; Vietnam Serve Medal; Sea Service Deployment Ribbon; Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Silver Star; and the Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal with device.

(Revised May 08, 2002 HQMC)
...
The official bio Rasputin pasted says that General Joy was in Beirut, Lebanon, as she (K) explained.
Northern Solutions Conference - Presenters - [Cached Version]
Published on: 3/30/2003    Last Visited: 4/30/2005   

His great-grandfather, Captain James Joy, had a fishing station in Sourthern Labrador and helped Captain William Whiteley develop the cod trap.
O'Rourke Family Trees - Page 1 - [Cached Version]
Published on: 11/22/2003    Last Visited: 9/22/2004   

i. BRIDGET MARY2 O'ROURKE2, m. JAMES JOY, CAPT.2.
...
Notes for JAMES JOY, CAPT.:

Parents of James were John & Bridged Joy.
Pictures from the Beirut Memorial, Oct. 23, 2001 - [Cached Version]
Published on: 9/6/2001    Last Visited: 6/18/2002   

James R. Joy, who served as a commander in Beirut."Do not believe those who died in Beirut, died in vain.On Oct. 23, 1983, wives lost husbands, children lost fathers, we lost friends and fine men who would have become our leaders.I have witnessed great strength in those family members who lost loved ones, and that has been a great marvel."

...
Joy told read a letter aloud which he wrote to his young grandchildren after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"Although we are living in the darkest of days, we will survive as a nation and people.Sept. 11 has changed our lives.Acts of terrorism has spared our shores until now.Now, it has been here and touched our lives.American people are resilient.We have survived because of our great nation."
...
Joy also talked about the men who made the ultimate sacrifice served in Beirut."Where do we get such men?We get them from our nation.We will survive and become stronger.God Bless America."

Following remarks by the speakers, wreaths were laid in front and the memorial wall bearing the 241 names of those killed in the attack.
heraldsun.com: Wachovia posts third-quarter loss o... - [Cached Version]
Published on: 10/24/2001    Last Visited: 10/25/2001   

James R. Joy , a former Marine Corps commander in Beirut , said all Americans who watched the hijacked airliners crash into the World Trade Center and Pentagon on Sept. 11 can now relate to the horror experienced by the U.S. military all over the world.

Although we have been through the darkest of days we will survive as a nation , Joy said.

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline TheHouseMan

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2008, 06:51:21 PM »
This stuff is hardcore, but real. It's another example of using humans for profit. Whether it be slavery, sex rings, you name it.

Offline dr4gon

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2008, 09:28:16 PM »
Just finished watching the preview, and im gonna have to watch the 8 hrs. This is compelling stuff.

Tried to download but the links aren't working for me, but i found it on google video

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Kay+Griggs&emb=0&aq=f#
"The answer to 1984, is 1776"

Offline DireWolf

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2008, 11:09:06 PM »
This is not new in human history but it is on an unprecedented scale. This is but a glimpse into the sick twisted minds of those behind the NWO. I have no compassion nor will I lose any sleep over my decisions in regard to the final disposition of these evil sick SOB`s, it enrages me to no end when I hear of a child being used so.  There is no greater crime than that committed against an innocent child.
Freedom and Liberty, or slavery and death, your choice, choose wisely.

Offline flanagan

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2008, 11:23:43 PM »
BUT WHY CHILDREN.do they beleive having sex with children will make them imoortal like off southpark?

because they're monsters. they enjoy inflicting pain on something innocent.
"Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms" - Jeremiah 51:20

Offline dr4gon

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2008, 11:52:39 PM »
watch the vid, Kay explains why. Young boys used in homosexual acts and trained or 'turned' to become future assassins / intelligence leaders. They need to break the young minds so they can control and manipulate them.

Also the boys who voluntarily participate in these initiation acts (apparently not all of them do) are the ones who rise quickly through the ranks, as they can be blackmailed easily.

Im 2 and a half hrs in, i need a break lol

"The answer to 1984, is 1776"

Offline Freebird100

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 11:31:01 AM »
BUT WHY CHILDREN.do they beleive having sex with children will make them imoortal like off southpark?
I think the biggest reason is blackmail.Many people will excuse cheating on your wife or even gay sex.But there is no excuse in society for having sex with children.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."

Thomas Jefferson

Offline rio

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2008, 04:16:33 PM »
I've seen this before, watched most of it. She's probably dead already.

Offline KiwiClare

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2008, 05:39:58 PM »
Kay Griggs' interview is a real eyeopener. It is a must hear. She is a very brave lady. Her husband's brother death must have really been traumatic for her husband if it was, as she believes, to keep her husband in line.

Freebird wrote:
Quote
I think the biggest reason is blackmail.Many people will excuse cheating on your wife or even gay sex.But there is no excuse in society for having sex with children.

Yes, it is the kiss of death for a reputation and a way of trapping someone using a form of mind control in a sense, as paedophilia is something that doesn't wash off and those convicted of it become social pariahs.
I wonder also if this abuse is being vetted out to these poor children as there is an intention to use at least some of them later of in life too, as Cathy O'Brien has indicated. It appears that children who have been traumatised, are used by the CIA as mind control slaves.
As Ted Gunderson has made apparent, he has found evidence that shows that children are being abused by people in high places and the CIA and FBI is helping to cover it up.  Indicating that there is a method to the utter madness.

See: Ted Gunderson speak about the evidence of Satanic rituals children have been subjected to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOqm_RBaaG8
To be persuasive, we must be believable,
To be believable, we must be credible,
To be credible, we must be truthful.
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Offline Freebird100

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2008, 06:02:53 PM »
Yes, it is the kiss of death for a reputation and a way of trapping someone using a form of mind control in a sense, as paedophilia is something that doesn't wash off and those convicted of it become social pariahs.
I wonder also if this abuse is being vetted out to these poor children as there is an intention to use at least some of them later of in life too, as Cathy O'Brien has indicated. It appears that children who have been traumatised, are used by the CIA as mind control slaves.
As Ted Gunderson has made apparent, he has found evidence that shows that children are being abused by people in high places and the CIA and FBI is helping to cover it up.  Indicating that there is a method to the utter madness.

See: Ted Gunderson speak about the evidence of Satanic rituals children have been subjected to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOqm_RBaaG8

I would guess they use many of those kids even as adults.I assume you`re familar with the Johnny Gosch/Jeff Gannon story?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS292US292&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=johnny+gosch,jeff+gannon&spell=1

Johnny Gosch dissapeared in 1982 when he was 12 years old.Some believe he is Jeff Gannon,(friend of George Bush)one time white house reporter and a gay escort.





"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."

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Offline KiwiClare

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2008, 06:12:27 PM »
Freebird100
Quote
I would guess they use many of those kids even as adults.I assume you`re familar with the Johnny Gosch/Jeff Gannon story?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS292US292&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=johnny+gosch,jeff+gannon&spell=1

Johnny Gosch dissapeared in 1982 when he was 12 years old.Some believe he is Jeff Gannon,(friend of George Bush)one time white house reporter and a gay escort.

Thanks, I didn't know about that about Jeff Gannon, who appears to be a Bush Toy Boy.  Arrr, well that would figure.  Some of the people in power exhibit a morality lowers than a snake's belly don't they.
To be persuasive, we must be believable,
To be believable, we must be credible,
To be credible, we must be truthful.
- Edward R. Murrow

Offline Freebird100

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2008, 06:24:37 PM »
I would think they have new crops of children brought into the fold every year for future black ops.
Mind controlled people in every major city to be used when needed.

Walmart has pictures of missing children in their stores.Everytime I see those pictures I think that some of those kids  are being used by these sick,twisted bastards.

I also believe they learned to do this from nazi intellegence terrorists they brought to America from Operation Paperclip.

I remember hearing a interview with Col. Pouty (Donald Sutherland portrayed a fictional role of him in the movie JFK) Pounty said they had patsies set up all around the country like Oswald to be used anyway they saw fit.He said JFK could of just as easily been shot in Miami.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."

Thomas Jefferson

Offline Dig

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2008, 09:41:47 PM »
watch the vid, Kay explains why. Young boys used in homosexual acts and trained or 'turned' to become future assassins / intelligence leaders. They need to break the young minds so they can control and manipulate them.

Also the boys who voluntarily participate in these initiation acts (apparently not all of them do) are the ones who rise quickly through the ranks, as they can be blackmailed easily.

Im 2 and a half hrs in, i need a break lol



You are dead on about this.

Cathy O'Brien also explains it.

Generational incest assists in picking out good trauma based mind control slaves for future use.  Watch these videos often and many questions will be answered. She is one of the most credible truthers on the planet.  She was married for many years to a very high ranking colonel and is the granddaughter of a former chief of Army Intel.  She exposed tailhook (that exposed "dining out" and "cheerleading").  Her statements can all be followed up with quick and easy google searches if you question any of her facts.

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline dr4gon

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 02:02:04 AM »
You are dead on about this.

Cathy O'Brien also explains it.

Generational incest assists in picking out good trauma based mind control slaves for future use.  Watch these videos often and many questions will be answered. She is one of the most credible truthers on the planet.  She was married for many years to a very high ranking colonel and is the granddaughter of a former chief of Army Intel.  She exposed tailhook (that exposed "dining out" and "cheerleading").  Her statements can all be followed up with quick and easy google searches if you question any of her facts.



Cheers Sane, ill definitely read up on her.

Ive also watched some Ted Gunderson vids on satanic ritual abuse and this type of 'mind breaking' seems to be a common theme amongst all of these sick f*cks.
"The answer to 1984, is 1776"

Offline Dig

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2008, 02:43:59 AM »
Cheers Sane, ill definitely read up on her.

Ive also watched some Ted Gunderson vids on satanic ritual abuse and this type of 'mind breaking' seems to be a common theme amongst all of these sick f*cks.

Gunderson and "Franklin Coverup" are related:

From GeoLibertarian:

But when child sex rings are linked to Anglo terrorists, the corporate-controlled "news" media look the other way.

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/franklincoverupexcerpt.shtml
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=866739408240639313



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Also Cathy O'Brien's speeches adds to the understanding of why these sick f**ks operate the way they do:


From Hetware: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=38052.msg165287#msg165287

The mind sciences 8 minutes 20 seconds
Mk Ultra Project Monarch Mind control program.

****WARNING THIS VIDEO CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES****

Project Monarch: The Most Dangerous Game Part 2

"Mk Ultra Project Monarch survivor, Cathy O'Brien, tells her story of government sponsored trauma based mind control. Cathy O'Brien is the only vocal and recovered survivor of the Central Intelligence Agency's MK-Ultra Project Monarch operation. Tracing her path from child pornography and recruitment into the program to serving as a top-level intelligence agent and White House sex slave"

This is one of those things that I have trouble believing, but which I cannot explain away. The claims seem so far-fetched that they defy credulity.  OTOH, I cannot explain why anybody would concoct such a bizarre tale.  Either these people are telling the Truth, and there are some really vicious criminals who need to be brought to justice, or these people need to be exposed as frauds.  The more I look into these claims, the more I am inclined to believe the former to be the case.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More:

Short story about the most exiting form of hunting...HUNTING HUMAN BEINGS.  It was turned into a movie in 1932, then remade in 2001, it is often played by elites with child sex slaves:

"The Most Dangerous Game" (1924) is a famous short story by Richard Connell and the author's most well-known work. It concerns a big-game hunter trapped on the island of a fellow hunter who, bored with conventional prey, has come to see humans as the only quarry worthy of his skill (human hunting).The story has been adapted for film numerous times. The most significant of these adaptations (and apparently the only one to use the original characters) was The Most Dangerous Game, released in 1932, having been shot (mostly at night) on sets used during the day for the "Skull Island" sequences of King Kong. It starred Joel McCrea as Rainsford (renamed "Robert" instead of "Sanger") and Leslie Banks as Zaroff, and added two other principal characters: Eve Trobridge (Fay Wray) and Martin Trobridge (Robert Armstrong), who are brother and sister. The story was also twice produced as a radio play for the series Suspense, on 23 September 1943 with Orson Welles as Zaroff, and on 1 February 1945 with frequent Welles collaborator Joseph Cotten playing Rainsford. In these productions, Rainsford narrates the story in retrospect as he waits in Zaroff's bedroom for the final confrontation. A second movie adaptation, or a remake of the 1932 movie, was produced by RKO (the studio that produced the 1932 original) as A Game of Death, and released in 1945. Directed by Robert Wise at the very beginning of his long and distinguished directing career, the movie was regarded poorly. Footage from the original was recycled, and one actor from the original, Noble Johnson, was cast in this remake. In keeping with events of the time, A Game of Death changed Zaroff into "Erich Kreiger", a German Nazi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Game

Full Text of the Short Story:
http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/danger.html

Guerrilla News Network - The Most Dangerous game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAB6FhUeiao

The Most Dangerous Game (1932): Part I (actual video from the movie bud satirically dubbed by "mystery science theater 3000" dudes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP4qnJZAg5I

The Most Dangerous Game (2001)When big game hunter Robert Rainsford shipwrecks on a mysterious island, the most suspenseful adventure of his life begins!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhhc0whITrU

   
During Christmas vacation of 1974, my father flew us all to Disney World by route of Tampa, Florida. Ignorant of geography, it did not occur to me that Tampa was out of the way to Disney World until my father drove the rented van to the gates of MacDill Air Force Base. Military personnel met me there and escorted me into the base TOP SECRET high tech mind control conditioning facility for "behavioral modification" programming. This was the first in what became a routine series of mind control testing and/or programming sessions on government installations that I would endure throughout my Project Monarch victimization. Whether I was in a military, NASA, or government building, the procedure for maintaining me under total mind control remained consistent with Project Monarch requirements. This included prior physical and/or psychological trauma; sleep, food, and water deprivation; high voltage electric shock; and hypnotic and/or harmonic programming of specific memory compartments/ personalities. The high tech equipment and methodisms I endured from that time on gave the U.S. government absolute control of my mind and life. I had been literally driven out of my conscious mind and existed only through my programmed subconscious. I lost my free will, ability to reason, and could not think to question anything that was happening to me. I could only do as I was told. In the summer of 1975, my family drove all the way from Michigan to the Teton Mountains of Wyoming. I was ordered to ride in the back storage area of the family Chevy Suburban since I was forbidden to associate or communicate with my brothers and sister. So I dissociated into books, or into the metaphorical, hypnotic suggestions from my father and tranced deeper as I watched the prairie's seemingly endless sea of "amber waves of grain" streak past my window. Once when we stopped at a gas station, my father took me inside to show me a stuffed "jackalope" mounted on the wall. Due to my tranced, dissociative state and high suggestibility level, I believed it was indeed a cross between a jack rabbit and antelope. It was 100+ degrees in the Badlands when it cooled down at night. The intense heat of the day accentuated my ever increasing thirst. My father was physically preparing me though water deprivation for the intense tortures and programming I would endure in Wyoming. Dick Cheney, then White House Chief of Staff to President Ford, later Secretary of Defense to President George Bush, documented member of the Council on Foreign relations (CFR), and Presidential hopeful for 1996, was originally Wyoming's only Congressman. Dick Cheney was the reason my family had traveled to Wyoming where I endured yet another form of brutality -- his version of "A Most Dangerous Game," or human hunting. It is my understanding now that A Most Dangerous Game was devised to condition military personnel in survival and combat maneuvers. Yet it was used on me and other slaves known to me as a means of further conditioning the mind to the realization there was "no place to hide," as well as traumatize the victim for ensuing programming. It was my experience over the years that A Most Dangerous Game had numerous variations on the primary theme of being stripped naked and turned loose in the wilderness while being hunted by men and dogs. In reality, all "wilderness" areas were enclosed in secure military fencing whereby it was only a matter of time until I was caught, repeatedly raped, and tortured.

Dick Cheney had an apparent addiction to the "thrill of the sport." He appeared obsessed with playing A Most Dangerous Game as a means of traumatizing mind control victims, as well as to satisfy his own perverse sexual kinks. My introduction to the game occurred upon arrival at the hunting lodge near Greybull, Wyoming, and it physically and psychologically devastated me. I was sufficiently traumatized for Cheney's programming, as I stood naked in his hunting lodge office after being hunted down and caught. Cheney was talking as he paced around me, "I could stuff you and mount you like a jackalope and call you a two legged dear. Or I could stuff you with this (he unzipped his pants to reveal his oversized penis) right down your throat, and then mount you. Which do you prefer?" Blood and sweat became mixed with the dirt on my body and slid like mud down my legs and shoulder. I throbbed with exhaustion and pain as I stood unable to think to answer such a question. "Make up your mind," Cheney coaxed. Unable to speak, I remained silent. "You don't get a choice, anyway. I make up your mind for you. That's why you're here. For me to make you a mind, and make you mine/mind. You lost your mind a long time ago. Now I'm going to give you one. Just like the Wizard (of Oz) gave Scarecrow a brain, the Yellow Brick Road led you here to me. You've 'come such a long, long way' for your brain, and I will give you one." The blood reached my shoes and caught my attention. Had I been further along in my programming, I perhaps would never have noticed such a thing or had the capability to think to wipe it away. But so far, I had only been to MacDill and Disney World for government/military programming. At last, when I could speak, I begged, "If you don't mind, can I please use your bathroom?" Cheney's face turned red with rage. He was on me in an instant, slamming my back into the wall with one arm across my chest and his hand on my throat, choking me while applying pressure to the carotid artery in my neck with his thumb. His eyes bulged and he spit as he growled, "If you don't mind me, I will kill you. I could kill you -- Kill you -- with my bare hands. You're not the first and you won't be the last. I'll kill you any time I goddamn well please." He flung me on the cot-type bed that as behind me. There he finished taking his rage out on me sexually. On the long trip back to Michigan, I lay in a heap behind the seats of the Suburban, nauseated and hurting from Cheney's brutality and high voltage tortures, plus the whole Wyoming experience. My father stopped by the waterfalls flowing through the Tetons to "wash my brain" of the memory of Cheney. I could barely walk through the woods to the falls for the process as instructed, despite having learned my lessons well from Cheney on following orders. The next year when our "annual" trip to Disney World rolled around, my father drove, pulling his new Holiday Rambler Royale International trailer. My father dropped me off en route at the Kennedy Space Center in Titusville, Florida where I was subjected to my first NASA programming. From then on, I was "obsessed" with following the "Yellow Brick Road" to Nashville, Tennessee. Moving to Nashville was all I could talk about. If anyone asked me the question I could not think to ask myself "Why?", I would respond by reiterating it was something "I had to do."

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline liko

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2009, 12:45:12 PM »


I think all the Griggs links are dead,including the torrent.
Great Work as usual Sane.

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Offline Wrexsoul

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2009, 06:59:20 PM »
I stopped when I saw the word "masonic." I doubt it goes down to a bunch of paedophiles at executive level.
The black ops diversions and assassinations are definitely credible, though.
~ All hail BB

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2009, 11:57:20 PM »
What's this about her thinking that the CIA "isn't real"? That's kind of silly, imho.

Offline rio

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2009, 01:11:40 AM »
What's this about her thinking that the CIA "isn't real"? That's kind of silly, imho.

Griggs, being an insider, probably meant this:

http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/whosbehindpedoprotectact.htm

Quote from:


“The FBI and CIA are tinker toys compared to ADL.”


How powerful is ADL? Congressman John Rarrick (in the Congressional Record December 6, 1971) quoted Senator Jack Tenney of California: “The FBI and CIA are tinker toys compared to ADL.”



Offline Dig

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2009, 04:16:25 PM »
Everybody...

Kay Griggs is an insider that gave 8 hours of interviewed video on her best and honest assessment of things.

Cathy O'Brien and Brice Taylor have done similar things, so has Ted Gunderson.

They are all pieces of the puzzle and are their experiences and honest assessment.

One or two issues that you may or may not agree with shuld not impact the over 90% truth they are exposing.

I'm just saying...
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline giark65

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Re: Kay Griggs exposes Child Sex Pedaphile NWO power control matrix
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2011, 11:44:08 AM »
"The Most Dangerous Game" (1924)

Same story repeated through the same dynasties.  What is the earliest stories we know of (?) as I'm sure it dates back to the Roman Dynasty, if not Babylon.  I'm hopeful someone has more information.

Two of the most prominent names in the X-Dossiers are Paul Vanden Boeynants and Baron Benoit de Bonvoisin.
http://www.american-buddha.com/cult.beyonddutroux.htm

Vanden Boeynants was accused by X1, X3 and X4 of being a violent child abuser and-or a person involved in hunts on children (210). Nathalie W. claimed to have seen Vanden Boeynants at the Dolo (211), the favorite club of Nihoul, while X2 testified she had seen Vanden Boeynants' private driver there, Henri Bil, talking to one of Belgium's most notorious gangsters, Madani Bouhouche (212). X1 has named both Bil and Bouhouche as child abusers (213). On a lesser note, Vanden Boeynants' name also appeared in the Pinon file of the 1980s (214) and in Maud Sarr's TV testimony in February 1990 (215), in which his name came up alongside a DEA-trained gendarme general with whom he once ran a massive drug importing operation (216). Both the Pinon and Maud Sarr cases were about a prostitution network in which minors were used to blackmail high officials.

X1 and X2 mentioned de Bonvoisin as one of the most sadistic abusers in the network (217). One of his sisters married Count Herve d'Ursel (218), who has been accused by X1 of involvement in the snuff and ritual abuse network (219). His other sister is married to the earlier mentioned Bernard de Merode, an intelligence-connected family which has been accused of child abuse and Satanism by X4 and Nathalie W. (220) X2 mentioned having been at a meeting organized by her pimp, at which de Merode, d'Ursel and de Bonvoisin families were all present, together with the Prince and Princess of Chimay (221). According to X2, hunts on children were organized in the woods of Chateau de Chimay (222)

1986, Paul Vanden Boeynants and Baron de Bonvoisin, the two pillars of fascist subversion in Belgium in the 1970s and 1980s. Both have been accused of child abuse, -torture and -murder. The driver and confidante of Vanden Boeynants, who also stands accused, stated that he "understood" that Nihoul was the "right hand" of de Bonvoisin (PV 39.027). Nihoul certainly knew Vanden Boeynants and was very active in the political party "VdB" and "BdB" ran, the PSC with its fascist CEPIC think tank.