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Author Topic: Gun control a gray area between McCain, Obama  (Read 1470 times)
Clyde Barrow
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« on: October 15, 2008, 08:39:26 AM »

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iws_NUP4CywbKPEd1Czf0PY8NWVAD93QQH6G0

Gun control a gray area between McCain, Obama

BOSTON (AP) — John McCain supports background checks for buyers at gun shows and has his name on a law restricting special-interest group advertising, two positions strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association.

So how'd he end up with the group's presidential endorsement? By running against Barack Obama, whom NRA leaders accuse of wanting to put the firearms industry out of business.

"Hillary was right: You can't trust Obama with your guns," the association's Political Victory Fund said in a recent mailing.

The endorsement reflects the complicated role that gun control is playing in the 2008 campaign.

For voters who care about the issue, the most unambiguous record belongs not to McCain, but his running mate.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is not only a gun owner and an NRA member, but a proud hunter who is unapologetic about supporting aerial wolf hunting.

From there, things get kind of gray.

Obama's running rate, Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, favors gun control but is a gun owner himself — he has three shotguns.

Referring to Obama, Biden recently told a Virginia audience, "He tries to fool with my Beretta, he's got a problem." He was referring to a weapon sold by Beretta, a company that makes a wide variety of firearms.

Neither McCain nor Obama owns a gun.

Obama, a former constitutional law professor, joins McCain in saying he supports the Second Amendment's right to bear arms. And both said the Supreme Court was correct in June when it clarified — for the first time in the country's history — that the Second Amendment gave gun ownership rights to individuals, not just a militia.

But that case also exposed a fissure between the two White House contenders.

McCain, reflecting the more conservative principles of the GOP, said the ruling is only the first step toward ensuring gun rights.

While he supports the gun-show checks and advertising restrictions, he voted against the 1994 assault weapons ban and believes gun manufacturers should not be held liable in civil lawsuits for crimes committed with their products.

The Arizona senator said last year: "I strongly support the Second Amendment. And I believe the Second Amendment ought to be preserved — which means no gun control."

Obama joined with fellow Democrats in voting to leave gun-makers and dealers open to suit. As an Illinois state lawmaker, he also supported a ban on all forms of semiautomatic weapons and tighter state restrictions generally on firearms. He argues local communities should be able to take the steps they feel are necessary to reduce crime.

Those positions helped him win the endorsement of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

"The Obama-Biden ticket will work with law enforcement, gun violence victims and ordinary citizens who want to do more to protect themselves, their families and their communities by making it harder for dangerous people to get dangerous weapons," said Paul Helmke, president of the group named after Jim Brady. Brady was press secretary to President Reagan when he was gravely wounded by a gunman who tried to assassinate Reagan in 1981.

A rival gun rights group, the American Hunters and Shooters Association, has endorsed Obama and accuses the NRA of backing McCain for partisan rather than philosophical reasons.

"The NRA is holding Obama accountable for votes taken 10 years ago but giving McCain a pass for his actions within the past eight years," said the group's president, former Washington Redskins player Ray Schoenke, who has cut radio ads for Obama.

Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland, a Democrat, has also tried to reassure voters in his battleground state, saying last week that gun owners "have nothing to fear from Barack Obama."

McCain generally does not raise the issue on the campaign trail. The former naval aviator was trained to use a pistol and carried one with him in combat but hasn't used one since leaving the military.

In May, however, speaking to the NRA's annual convention in Kentucky, McCain leveled a double-barreled attack on Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who was then still in the Democratic nomination race.

"If either Sen. Clinton or Sen. Obama is elected president, the rights of law-abiding gun owners will be at risk, my friends — and have no doubt about it," McCain said.

While his McCain-Feingold law inhibits special-interest fundraising, he told the group, "Those disagreements do not detract from my long record of support for the Second Amendment and the work we have done together to protect the rights of gun owners."

Obama, meanwhile, angered both gun owners and blue-collar workers with his comment during a San Francisco fundraiser that bitter voters in rural Pennsylvania "cling" to guns and religion because of their economic frustrations.

Last week, during an appearance in Lebanon, Ohio, he, too, tried to reassure gun owners.

"I believe in the Second Amendment," he declared. "I believe in people's lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away."
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pizzedoff
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2008, 08:54:41 AM »

There is no gray area they work for the same people, the only difference is whether their taking it with a smile or a grimace.
Please repeat as often as necessary

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS

Sorry for shouting, but this message does not seem to be getting thru
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2Revolutions
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For we wrestle not with flesh and blood


« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2008, 09:04:23 AM »

Exactly.  Does anyone one know what advertising restrictions means? I have never seen a guns or gun shows promoted on television. 
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Those who wish to remain ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, want what never was and what never will be.  - Thomas Jefferson
Nailer
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2008, 09:20:36 AM »



http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaPolitics.htm

Obama is embracing anti-gun policies in the run-up to a Democratic presidential debate scheduled on the one-year anniversary of the Virginia Tech shootings.

"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama told the Pittsburgh Tribune.  "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."

These remarks break from Obama’s previous moderate rhetoric on gun control.

While campaigning in Idaho in February, Obama promised, "I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns."

Obama’s presidential campaign has worked to assure uneasy gun owners that he believes the Constitution protects their rights and that he doesn’t want to take away their guns.

But before he became a national political figure, he sat on the board of the Joyce Foundation, a Chicago-based foundation that doled out at least nine grants totaling nearly $2.7 million to groups that advocated the opposite positions.

The foundation funded legal scholarship advancing the theory that the Second Amendment does not protect individual gun owners’ rights, as well as two groups that advocated handgun bans.  And it paid to support a book called "Every Handgun Is Aimed at You: The Case for Banning Handguns."

Obama's proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school.

"Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America." is more than just a little exaggeration.
2nd
Amendment Barack Obama voted four times to allow criminal charges against homeowners who defend their person and home with a gun.

Despite Obama's propensity to say and do anything to get elected, Obama's record does not match his rhetoric.

In fact, Barack Obama specifically voted four times in the Illinois Legislature to allow criminal charges against a homeowner who used a firearm in self-defense of their person and home -- specifically what the Supreme Court says is a constitutional right. Obama may say he supports it, but his record says exactly the opposite.
2nd
Amendment Obama said this during an April 17th debate:

"I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right."

Here's a few examples -- make up your own:

"Just because you have an individual right [to free speech] does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right."

"Just because you have an individual right [not to be searched unreasonably] does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right."

"Just because you have an individual right [to freely exercise religion] does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right."

"Just because you have an individual right [to an abortion] does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right."

"Just because you have an individual right [to bear arms] does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right."

Does anyone else find this disturbing?
2nd
Amendment "One of the most blatant lies ever to come from a politician's mouth," is how the Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA) is characterizing a recent statement by U.S. Senator Barack Obama.  Speaking in the latest issue of "Field & Stream," Obama claims that Illinois sportsmen know him as an advocate for their rights. On the contrary, Obama's voting record while a state senator clearly indicates that he has nothing but contempt for the law-abiding firearm owner.

"Any sportsman who counts Barack Obama as one of his friends is seriously confused," said ISRA Executive Director Richard Pearson.  "Throughout his tenure in the Illinois Senate, Obama served as one of the most loyal foot soldiers in Mayor Daley's campaign to abolish civilian firearm ownership.  While a state senator, Obama voted for legislation that would ban and forcibly confiscate nearly every shotgun, target rifle and hunting rifle in the state.  Obama also voted for bills that would ration the number of firearms a law-abiding citizen could own, yet give a pass to the violent thugs who roam our streets.  And, inexplicably, Obama voted four times against legislation that would allow citizens to use firearms to defend their homes and families."

"Let us also not forget that Obama served as a director of the Joyce Foundation," continued Pearson.  "While on the Joyce Foundation board, Obama funneled tens of millions of dollars to radical gun control organizations such as the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence and the Violence Policy Center."

"If Senator Obama considers his legislative record and his philanthropic endeavors to be acts of advocacy on behalf of sportsmen's rights, then I submit that the Senator is seriously confused as well," asserted Pearson.

"Nobody knows Obama's record on guns better than I do, and it's rotten to the core," said Pearson.  "I've been involved in Illinois politics nearly as long as Obama has been alive.  In that time, I have never encountered a legislator who was more hostile towards or more disinterested in sportsmen's rights than Barack Obama."

While a state senator, Obama voted for legislation that would ban and forcibly confiscate nearly every shotgun, target rifle and hunting rifle in the state.  Obama also voted for bills that would ration the number of firearms a law-abiding citizen could own, yet give a pass to the violent thugs who roam our streets.  And, inexplicably, Obama voted four times against legislation that would allow citizens to use firearms to defend their homes and families.
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I am a realist that is slightly conservative yet I have some republican demeanor that can turn democrat when I feel the urge to flip independant.
 
The truth shall set you free, if not a 45ACP round will do the trick.. HEHE
Nailer
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2008, 09:29:41 AM »

here are the facts on McCain and Obama on guns.


http://www.goapvf.org/Table/Presidential-Candidates-and-the-Second-Amendment/


Barack Obama's Gun-Related Votes
The U.S. Senate Debated: Obama
Voted:
Supporting concealed carry for citizens10 Anti-gun
Banning many common semi-automatic firearms11 Anti-gun
Disallowing self-defense in towns where guns are banned12 Anti-gun
Imposing one handgun a month restrictions13 Anti-gun
Requiring lock up your safety trigger locks14 Anti-gun
Protecting gun dealers from frivolous lawsuits15 Anti-gun
Outlawing gun confiscations during a national emergency16 Pro-gun
Squelching the free speech rights of gun owners17 Anti-gun
Restricting the interstate sales of firearms18 Anti-gun
Repealing the gun ban in Washington, DC19 Anti-gun
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I am a realist that is slightly conservative yet I have some republican demeanor that can turn democrat when I feel the urge to flip independant.
 
The truth shall set you free, if not a 45ACP round will do the trick.. HEHE
Nailer
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2008, 10:11:26 AM »

I like the way this guy thinks................


http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message637602/pg1

I robbed the guy who was robbing my house then called the cops.He only had two hundred fifty bucks but it was the principal of the thing.
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I am a realist that is slightly conservative yet I have some republican demeanor that can turn democrat when I feel the urge to flip independant.
 
The truth shall set you free, if not a 45ACP round will do the trick.. HEHE
DireWolf
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Freedom, Liberty & death to the NWO


« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2008, 01:02:45 PM »

The only gray area should be between their ears but it doesn't exist there either.

 Should anyone  be naive enough to believe either side will leave our right to own firearms alone I am both saddened and dismayed. Both sides serve the NWO and the NWO cannot allow us to be in control of our own destinies, the only real obstacle is our owning of firearms, without which we would already be in more hot water than we are at this present time in history.
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Freedom and Liberty, or slavery and death, your choice, choose wisely.
strgzr
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2008, 02:24:33 PM »


 

"Just because you have an individual right [to an abortion] does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right."
 



Amendments

    * First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    * Second Amendment – Right to keep and bear arms.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    * Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

    No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

    * Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    * Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

    No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    * Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

    * Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

    In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

    * Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    * Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    * Tenth Amendment – Powers of states and people.

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Individual right to an abortion?
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Volitzar
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 02:40:31 AM »

http://knowbeforeyouvote.com

Now see Ron Paul's record...

That what Chuck Baldwin agrees and aspires to...

Chuck Baldwin information !!!

http://www.loudobbsradio.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=820


Chuck Baldwin's acceptance speech !!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5808710975074355086


Constitution Party Promotional Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_SobkISNrY&feature=related


The Baldwin Campaign has put some great videos up on their YouTube channel at

http://www.youtube.com/user/chuckbaldwin2008


http://www.baldwin08.com/

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com

http://www.wakeup-usa.com/


Click on your state and co-ordinate your efforts.
http://baldwin08.com/statesmap.cfm

http://www.baldwin2008tv.com


Chuck Baldwin on the Lou Dobbs Show !!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJZXQtKtHk
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Nailer
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 03:32:37 AM »

Fellow Sportsman,

Hello, my name is Rich Pearson and I have been active in the firearm rights movement for over 40 years. For the past 15 years, I have served in the Illinois state capitol as the chief lobbyist for the Illinois State Rifle Association.

I lobbied Barack Obama extensively while he was an Illinois State Senator. As a result of that experience, I know Obama's attitudes toward guns and gun owners better than anyone. The truth be told, in all my years in the Capitol I have never met a legislator who harbors more contempt for the law-abiding firearm owner than does Barack Obama.

Although Obama claims to be an advocate for the 2nd Amendment, his voting record in the Illinois Senate paints a very different picture. While a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens. That same bill would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns. Obama supported a bill that would shut down law-abiding firearm manufacturers including Springfield Armory, Armalite, Rock River Arms and Les Baer. Obama also voted for a bill that would prohibit law-abiding citizens from purchasing more than one gun per month.
Without a doubt, Barack Obama has proven himself to be an enemy of the law abiding firearm owner. At the same time, Obama has proven himself to be a friend to the hardened criminal. While a state senator, Obama voted 4 times against legislation that would allow a homeowner to use a firearm in defense of home and family.

Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a "friend" of the law-abiding gun owner?

And speaking of friends, you can always tell a person by the company they keep. Obama counts among his friends the Rev. Michael Pfleger - a renegade Chicago priest who has openly called for the murder of gun shop owners and pro-gun legislators. Then there is his buddy Richard Daley, the mayor of Chicago who has declared that if it were up to him, nobody would be allowed to own a gun. And let's not forget Obama's pal George Soros - the guy who has pumped millions of dollars into the UN's international effort to disarm law-abiding citizens.
Obama has shown that he is more than willing to use other people's money to fund his campaign to take your guns away from you. While a board member of the leftist Joyce Foundation, Barack Obama wrote checks for tens of millions of dollars to extremist gun control organizations such as the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence and the Violence Policy Center.

Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a "friend" of the law-abiding gun owner?

By now, I'm sure that many of you have received mailings from an organization called "American Hunters and Shooters Association(AHSA)" talking about what a swell fellow Obama is and how he honors the 2nd Amendment and how you will never have to worry about Obama coming to take your guns. Let me make it perfectly clear - everything the AHSA says about Obama is pure hogwash. The AHSA is headed by a group of left-wing elitists who subscribe to the British view of hunting and shooting. That is, a state of affairs where hunting and shooting are reserved for the wealthy upper-crust who can afford guided hunts on exclusive private reserves. The AHSA is not your friend, never will be.

In closing, I'd like to remind you that I'm a guy who has actually gone nose to nose with Obama on gun rights issues. The Obama I know cannot even begin to identify with this nation's outdoor traditions. The Obama I know sees you, the law abiding gun owner, as nothing but a low-class lummox who is easily swayed by the flash of a smile and a ration of rosy rhetoric. The Obama I know is a stony-faced liar who has honed his skill at getting what he wants - so long as people are willing to give it to him.

That's the Barack Obama I know.

The ISRA is the state's leading advocate of safe, lawful and responsible firearms ownership. Founded in 1903, the ISRA has represented the interests of millions of law-abiding Illinois firearm owners.
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I am a realist that is slightly conservative yet I have some republican demeanor that can turn democrat when I feel the urge to flip independant.
 
The truth shall set you free, if not a 45ACP round will do the trick.. HEHE
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