Can those who have more brains than ME explain something please, Markets

[iceman2]

All this stock market stuff! How does it work. How does it effect your everyday person in the street? I sort of got half the picture here, which makes it a hard to see the what, how and why! going up is supposed to be good and going down is bad! 

Please don't make it toooo complex as I am not an economist!

[Capt. Obvious]

It affects the companies people work for, it affects how those companies can raise money, it affects the returns on people's savings, and it affects the financing that companies offer for things like cars and appliances

[MarkCentury]

All this stock market stuff! How does it work. How does it effect your everyday person in the street? I sort of got half the picture here, which makes it a hard to see the what, how and why! going up is supposed to be good and going down is bad! 

Please don't make it toooo complex as I am not an economist!

Re: Market Stuff

When they steal all our money there will be a panic.  

People will go to the bank to withdraw their money, but there won't be any money to give them.

Business will grind to a halt.

And you will see, for the first time, all the shelves in your local grocery store empty.

[Donovan]

It also affects the amount of jobs available.  There will not be enough jobs, hence lots of people will be struggling to pay for food and their bills.

Its going to be an ugly mess.

[lazarus]

iceman, I think we can safely say at this point that the stock market is no longer a natural or free market where the demand for something raises it's price and vice versa. Due to the perverted liquidity system, where money can be created from thin air on a computer, artificial boosts in price can and do occur, and with a mechanism called shorting, prices can be artificially dropped. So we have a system that basically benefits those that create the currency, for profit and for influence. As an example, the treasury has set up offshore entities that take the created currency and pour money into the stock market to keep it afloat.

Our (US) stock market has basically become a video game. The recent bailout package is designed to preserve those entities that keep the game going. Nothing more than a software upgrade.

[iceman2]

SO hang on there, I sort of got all this, Which is sort of what I thought in the first place! But the bit I don't get< When these Hitler's out there, need more dosh to keep things going why don't they just invent it? 5 trillion no problem! Or does this screw up inflation? If they control the system, and they want more money, why not just invent more money! 

[MarkCentury]

The only thing that is REAL is you and I working.

So their game is to figure out how to get you and me to work for little or nothing -- just enough to keep us alive (subsistence wages). 

This is called slavery and it allows them to become fabulously wealthy because they "own" us and "own" the product of our labor.

When they create "money" out of thin air, it will only work for them if WE believe that money is real and are willing to trade our work for it.  This is what has been going on before.

NOW we are entering a new phase.  WE are going to be willing to work at subsistence wages (total slavery) because WE will be starving.

This has been going on for some time.  As I write this note HALF OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION works for less than $2 per day.

Now it's our turn.

The antidote is easy:  SELF RELIANCE.  Learn to grow your own food.  Learn to make a solar oven.  Learn to capture water from the air (see below).  Learn to kill those who would enslave us.


HOW TO CAPTURE WATER FROM THE AIR

In moist earth, dig a cone shaped pit with the deepest point in the middle.  The pit only needs to be six feet across and three feet deep.  Place a container at the center of the pit to capture water.  Now cover the pit with a piece of plastic.  Place a stone in the middle of the plastic just above the container in the pit.  The water in the air from the soil will condense on the inner side of the plastic sheet and will run down the sides of this sheet and drop into the water container below.  You can capture enough water to stay alive.  Want more water?   Dig more pits.

[iceman2]

Thanks for the reply! Yea I agree and can see 99% of what your saying! BUT!!!! if money is an invention which is only real to those who have the real power, and it's worthless, in reality that is. The means on production and the goods they produce are valued based upon this stuff called money. And for the likes of you and me can't do squat with out it! Eat, TV, this computer, and almost everything else we can think of. So, it becomes of value, as it's a means of trade, money and or cards to the value of "bread" TV, or anything else. As a result, yes it's a human invention, but that invention carries a value! To me this is the bit I sort of don't agree with you on, although In principle I do agree with you, if you know what I mean. After all, we don't have too much of a choice but, as they say, buy into the system, or go hungry !

[lazarus]

SO hang on there, I sort of got all this, Which is sort of what I thought in the first place! But the bit I don't get< When these Hitler's out there, need more dosh to keep things going why don't they just invent it? 5 trillion no problem! Or does this screw up inflation? If they control the system, and they want more money, why not just invent more money! 

They are doing this, but they do it in an artificial aura of legitimacy. Which used to be board in the Federal Reserve which supposedly answered to Congress. Think of this as a scheme to only SECONDARILY benefit the country and its people. In times of crisis, the scheme becomes more obvious. And yes you are correct, they have to worry about inflation getting out of control, temporarily. It has to be a CONTROLLED demolition (sound familiar?) of the economy, in measured steps that benefit those in control.

[Kregener]

The Stock Market would function perfectly IF stocks were trading at their true value. They are not. They are over-inflated, sometimes MANY times over. The Market devolved into a game for the uber-rich only. A long time ago.

When it fails (and it will) the faith in the fiat dollar is going to go with it.

Reference Mark's post above, no food rolling into the stores, and even if there were, bread is selling for $10,0000 per loaf, because hyper-inflation sets in due to the sheer amount of debt we stagger under, and Uncle Sugar will run the printing presses 24X7 to try and print our way out of trouble.

If you do not prepare yourself for a collapsed dollar, you WILL go hungry...and without TV.

[lazarus]

Thanks for the reply! Yea I agree and can see 99% of what your saying! BUT!!!! if money is an invention which is only real to those who have the real power, and it's worthless, in reality that is. The means on production and the goods they produce are valued based upon this stuff called money. And for the likes of you and me can't do squat with out it! Eat, TV, this computer, and almost everything else we can think of. So, it becomes of value, as it's a means of trade, money and or cards to the value of "bread" TV, or anything else. As a result, yes it's a human invention, but that invention carries a value! To me this is the bit I sort of don't agree with you on, although In principle I do agree with you, if you know what I mean. After all, we don't have too much of a choice but, as they say, buy into the system, or go hungry !

This is true, but a monetary system has to place the common good of society above everything else and cannot serve the few or any evil intentions. One could make the simplistic argument that one of the main reasons outsiders started dumping the dollar is because more and more people realized 9/11 was a fraud. A simple way to look at it but not far from the truth of the matter.

[ConcordeWarrior]

This is the Pope's version of why this financial meltdown is happening. 

Pope criticises pursuit of wealth

The global financial crisis is proof that the pursuit of money and success is pointless, Pope Benedict XVI has told a meeting of bishops in Rome.

The head of the Roman Catholic Church said that the disappearance of money as banks collapsed showed that wealth meant "nothing".

The Pope said that people should instead base their lives on God's word.

Those who think that "concrete things we can touch are the surest reality" are deceiving themselves, he said.

'Building on sand'

The crisis in the financial industry has seen billions of dollars wiped off the value of shares, and a number of seemingly untouchable banking institutions have been taken over, nationalised, or have collapsed.

Speaking to the bishops assembled at the Vatican, Pope Benedict said those who seek "success, career or money are building on sand".

When he opened the Synod on Sunday, the Pope attacked modern culture, saying that "nations once rich in faith and vocations are losing their own identity under the harmful and destructive influence of a certain modern culture".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7654878.stm

Would he rather see us all starving?? This makes no sense at all when you think that the Vatican is one of the wealthiest (if not the wealthiest) State on the planet... Oh... maybe they are competing with neighboring Monaco!

[Kregener]

That is just terrific....coming from the head of one of the RICHEST organizations on the planet.

[aLLyOuRbAsE]

Thanks for the reply! Yea I agree and can see 99% of what your saying! BUT!!!! if money is an invention which is only real to those who have the real power, and it's worthless, in reality that is. The means on production and the goods they produce are valued based upon this stuff called money. And for the likes of you and me can't do squat with out it! Eat, TV, this computer, and almost everything else we can think of. So, it becomes of value, as it's a means of trade, money and or cards to the value of "bread" TV, or anything else. As a result, yes it's a human invention, but that invention carries a value! To me this is the bit I sort of don't agree with you on, although In principle I do agree with you, if you know what I mean. After all, we don't have too much of a choice but, as they say, buy into the system, or go hungry !

yes, you are correct, money (paper money/debt notes) only have value to us in terms of what they enable us to do, like eat, and heat our homes for instance. the system, or establishment if you prefer, not only props itself up by surpressing technology, it also perpetuates itself by creating the money as debt, with added interest on top, thus continuing the cycle.

the only way to escape the system of perpetual debt, and thus slavery, is to take responsibility for your own life, and boycott wherever possible the systems of control and the establishment (or status quo).

we should reject money as debt wherever possible, bartering is not perfect, but it is a damn sight better than fiat debt notes, so if possible, remove your money from banks, and start getting involved in community exchange with your nieghbours and friends.

to answer some of your other questions, "they" can create as much money as they like, through the system of fractional reserve banking (loans/deposits) and through the central bank exchanging reserve notes (cash) for government bonds, plus interest of course.

and this is exactly what they do, 700billion to bail out the banks, created out of nothing, the bill to be footed by, you guessed it, us.

there are "limits" in as much as they cant create a "critical mass" or else the system will collapse, although it is not inconceivable that they would intentionally flood and thus collapse the entire system, it is a possibility.

so they do "invent" money, the present system is based on that very fact.

[iceman2]

yes, you are correct, money (paper money/debt notes) only have value to us in terms of what they enable us to do, like eat, and heat our homes for instance. the system, or establishment if you prefer, not only props itself up by surpressing technology, it also perpetuates itself by creating the money as debt, with added interest on top, thus continuing the cycle.

the only way to escape the system of perpetual debt, and thus slavery, is to take responsibility for your own life, and boycott wherever possible the systems of control and the establishment (or status quo).

we should reject money as debt wherever possible, bartering is not perfect, but it is a damn sight better than fiat debt notes, so if possible, remove your money from banks, and start getting involved in community exchange with your nieghbours and friends.

to answer some of your other questions, "they" can create as much money as they like, through the system of fractional reserve banking (loans/deposits) and through the central bank exchanging reserve notes (cash) for government bonds, plus interest of course.

and this is exactly what they do, 700billion to bail out the banks, created out of nothing, the bill to be footed by, you guessed it, us.

there are "limits" in as much as they cant create a "critical mass" or else the system will collapse, although it is not inconceivable that they would intentionally flood and thus collapse the entire system, it is a possibility.

so they do "invent" money, the present system is based on that very fact.

Yes your right!  Barter, although not perfect is an alternative system to side step, their system. I feel partially fortunate, in that I now live a country which is a bit old system. Ie you can keep chickens, goats, and horse and carts are still used to some degree! Bulgaria! But the poor saps who are still living in places like the UK are a bit stuffed. they have created a situation where you have to be completely dependent on the owners of the means of production as K Marx would say. The law says the average home can't keep things like chickens, Goats or alike. And most young people can't see past Boil in the bag rice. so how they side step things, I don't know. The UK has been undergoing a form stealth social engineering for a number of years now, and sad to say they have things sort of stitched up. I also reckon as said, we need to start to stock our little places with tins, bit like those Mormons. The problem then becomes, Gangs, start to steel or bully individuals into giving up what's not theirs. MAFIA type situations, This is little short of the start of the same thing all over again. Unless, people band for the   Benefit of the whole! A bit like the USA should be, but now is NOT. All individual states, but when needed all work together to help and protect the oppressed state or the state under siege. The idea is great! But those greedy bunch of capitalist monsters have screwed it up!   

[aLLyOuRbAsE]

Yes your right!  Barter, although not perfect is an alternative system to side step, their system. I feel partially fortunate, in that I now live a country which is a bit old system. Ie you can keep chickens, goats, and horse and carts are still used to some degree! Bulgaria! But the poor saps who are still living in places like the UK are a bit stuffed. they have created a situation where you have to be completely dependent on the owners of the means of production as K Marx would say. The law says the average home can't keep things like chickens, Goats or alike. And most young people can't see past Boil in the bag rice. so how they side step things, I don't know. The UK has been undergoing a form stealth social engineering for a number of years now, and sad to say they have things sort of stitched up. I also reckon as said, we need to start to stock our little places with tins, bit like those Mormons. The problem then becomes, Gangs, start to steel or bully individuals into giving up what's not theirs. MAFIA type situations, This is little short of the start of the same thing all over again. Unless, people band for the   Benefit of the whole! A bit like the USA should be, but now is NOT. All individual states, but when needed all work together to help and protect the oppressed state or the state under siege. The idea is great! But those greedy bunch of capitalist monsters have screwed it up!   

im afraid this is a little bit more than just communists and capitalists, its not just a greedy bunch of capitalists, whatever thats supposed to mean, but you are right about the rest.