JFK Assassination and the limo driver

[jjdouglas]

I have for the first time been directed to the fact the fatal head shot was carried out by the driver and he is clearly visible doing so on the Zapruder film. I am flabbergasted I have never heard of this before and I was wondering what Alex has to say on this. I personally can't see how it can be denied.

[Aaron]

I thought the same thing after I watched the zapruder film.

Then I actually studied the footage.. 

[JConner]

http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/2007/08/ultimate-truth-of-kennedy-assassination.html

"Who fired the fatal head shot? With a magnifying glass you can see a piece of the gun for yourself. No this will not come out and hit you on the head with clarity. The regime is not that stupid. Some whistleblower may have paid with his/her life for leaving this in; or the PTB often seem to want the intelligentsia to know who did it. Remember this is (primitively) doctored. Frame 313 is known to be the fatal head shot frame by all, and you can see this for yourself. If anyone says a different frame is the fatal head shot frame, you know what that means.

You can actually see that Greer's gun (lower left corner of frame--usually cropped out of most versions of the film for obvious reasons) was not completely erased. Use a magnifying lens; much better still, get a printed version such as is in Twyman’s (or other) book—it is clearer than on a monitor. Do this if you really care about truth and justice. The top piece of the gun (i.e., the Sun’s reflection off of it) is visible over the head of Kellerman, and slightly also to the left of his head. See the curvature of Kellerman's black-haired head. Then see that the bright object above it, and a little piece of it to the left of said curvature--when there shouldn't be anything there. This is the left most part of the gun. They tried to make it look as if Kellerman’s black hair turns white on top, but the white piece to the left of the curvature is the giveaway. Indeed you can also see Greer's hunched up left shoulder and forearm leading up to the gun (in his left hand). Again they tried to make Greer’s upper arm and forearm blend in with background objects (gutter and limo edge), so (when viewing frame 313) block all this out with your hand to the left of Greer and Kellerman while viewing with a magnifying glass, and you should realize that you are seeing Greer’s upper arm and forearm leading up to the gun by his right ear. You can even see the motion of the gun coming up, here."

(note - original article includes embedded links)

[JConner]

[jjdouglas]

J Connar
Thanks for the response and the pic. I am absolutely convinced of what you say.

[Quasar]

"The Driver Shot Kennedy" theory is false. This theory is the brainchild of William Cooper.

William Cooper postulated this theory based upon his faulty examination of the Zapruder film.

Link to Zapruder film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozx4_4DZp38.

The driver of the limousine during the assassination of JFK was William Greer. The man sitting in the front seat beside William Greer was Roy Kellerman.

As the 'fatal head shot' occurs, Greer slows the limo and turns around to look at JFK. At this time, there is a glare on Roy Kellerman's head that looks surprisingly like a pistol and it lines up very well with Greer's left arm. Cooper interpreted this to be Greer turning around and firing a pistol at the President. This may be seen by looking closely at the Zapruder film.

Other evidence that disproves Cooper's assertion consists of other photographs and videos taken during the assassination that show that Greer's hands never left the steering wheel. The angle of the shot is also inconsistent with the movement of Kennedy's head in response to the shot's impact as well as Bobby Hargis' testimony that blood and bone fragments landed in his face. Hargis was the motorcycle policeman farthest to the left of Kennedy when the 'fatal head shot' impacted.

Also, Jackie Kennedy NEVER said, "I think the driver turned around and shot my husband."

William Cooper is also famous for producing a radio show known as 'The Hour of the Time' and a book entitled Behold A Pale Horse.

Cooper biography links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper
http://www.hourofthetime.com/william.htm

Hour Of The Time (HOTT) rebroadcast link:

http://www.hourofthetime.com/Hour_of_the_Time/HOTT_HOME.html

William Greer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Greer
Roy Kellerman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Kellerman
Bobby Hargis: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hargis.htm
Abraham Zapruder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Zapruder

[Quasar]

PS

What appears to be Greer's hand is actually Roy Kellerman's forehead. The 'pistol' is the sun reflecting off the top of Kellerman's head. The south curb of Elm Street appears above Greer's left arm, which is in shadow. This is what adherents to this theory suppose to be Greer's left forearm.

Look very closely and you will see that it is all an optical illusion and these are the components that are tricking your eye.

[Quasar]

"The Driver Shot Kennedy" theory is false. This theory is the brainchild of William Cooper.

William Cooper postulated this theory based upon his faulty examination of the Zapruder film.

Link to Zapruder film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozx4_4DZp38.

The driver of the limousine during the assassination of JFK was William Greer. The man sitting in the front seat beside William Greer was Roy Kellerman.

As the 'fatal head shot' occurs, Greer slows the limo and turns around to look at JFK. At this time, there is a glare on Roy Kellerman's head that looks surprisingly like a pistol and it lines up very well with Greer's left arm. Cooper interpreted this to be Greer turning around and firing a pistol at the President. This may be seen by looking closely at the Zapruder film.

What appears to be Greer's hand is actually Roy Kellerman's forehead. The 'pistol' is the sun reflecting off the top of Kellerman's head. The south curd of Elm Street appears above Greer's left arm, which is in shadow. This is what adherents to this theory suppose to be Greer's left forearm.

Look very closely and you will see that it is all an optical illusion and these are the components that are tricking your eye.

Other evidence that disproves Cooper's assertion consists of other photographs and videos taken during the assassination that show that Greer's hands never left the steering wheel. The angle of the shot is also inconsistent with the movement of Kennedy's head in response to the shot's impact as well as Bobby Hargis' testimony that blood and bone fragments landed in his face. Hargis was the motorcycle policeman farthest to the left of Kennedy when the 'fatal head shot' impacted.

Also, Jackie Kennedy NEVER said, "I think the driver turned around and shot my husband."

William Cooper is also famous for producing a radio show known as 'The Hour of the Time' and a book entitled Behold A Pale Horse.

Cooper biography links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper
http://www.hourofthetime.com/william.htm

Hour Of The Time (HOTT) rebroadcast link:

http://www.hourofthetime.com/Hour_of_the_Time/HOTT_HOME.html

William Greer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Greer
Roy Kellerman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Kellerman
Bobby Hargis: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hargis.htm
Abraham Zapruder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Zapruder

[jjdouglas]

Quasar
You say the following:
'there is a glare on Roy Kellerman's head that looks surprisingly like a pistol and it lines up very well with Greer's left arm.'
'Other evidence that disproves Cooper's assertion consists of other photographs and videos taken during the assassination that show that Greer's hands never left the steering wheel.'

How could his head line up with Greer's left arm if his hands never left the wheel?

Interesting point about Greer. He was a Northern Ireland Protestant. Not a sympathiser of an Irish Catholic president I would have thought, and his son seemed to say this in an interview.

[equalizer33]

That's ridiculous, the driver did not fire a shot, that is a glare. There would have been live witnesses to account for this had it taken place. He definately slowed the car down enough for the real shooters to have a field day.

[Sees Things]

the driver sure couldnt find the gas pedal however

[Jeb Black]

No way the limo driver shot JFK. It's a shadow, not a gun. watch carefully.

[tonyswan]

"The Driver Shot Kennedy" theory is false. This theory is the brainchild of William Cooper.

William Cooper postulated this theory based upon his faulty examination of the Zapruder film.

Link to Zapruder film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozx4_4DZp38.

The driver of the limousine during the assassination of JFK was William Greer. The man sitting in the front seat beside William Greer was Roy Kellerman.

As the 'fatal head shot' occurs, Greer slows the limo and turns around to look at JFK. At this time, there is a glare on Roy Kellerman's head that looks surprisingly like a pistol and it lines up very well with Greer's left arm. Cooper interpreted this to be Greer turning around and firing a pistol at the President. This may be seen by looking closely at the Zapruder film.

Other evidence that disproves Cooper's assertion consists of other photographs and videos taken during the assassination that show that Greer's hands never left the steering wheel. The angle of the shot is also inconsistent with the movement of Kennedy's head in response to the shot's impact as well as Bobby Hargis' testimony that blood and bone fragments landed in his face. Hargis was the motorcycle policeman farthest to the left of Kennedy when the 'fatal head shot' impacted.

Also, Jackie Kennedy NEVER said, "I think the driver turned around and shot my husband."

William Cooper is also famous for producing a radio show known as 'The Hour of the Time' and a book entitled Behold A Pale Horse.

Cooper biography links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper
http://www.hourofthetime.com/william.htm

Hour Of The Time (HOTT) rebroadcast link:

http://www.hourofthetime.com/Hour_of_the_Time/HOTT_HOME.html

William Greer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Greer
Roy Kellerman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Kellerman
Bobby Hargis: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hargis.htm
Abraham Zapruder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Zapruder

I have a copy of his book Behold a Pale Horse.  I'm not exactly sure your annalysis is correct as to how this whole driver theory came about.  I need to look in the book and review the material.

[jjdouglas]

Witnesses:
1. Mary Moorman - school teacher standing next to Jean Hill. She said she saw Greer shooting back but thought he was shooting back at the assassin. SOURCE: Warren Commission.
2. Jean Hill - Jean Hill saw what happened too, but when she tried to bring up the subject of a gun being fired in the car, Senator Arlen Spector would change the subject or say "it's time for a cup of coffee."
3. Austin P. Miller - Texas Louisiana Freight Bureau, who stood on the railway overpass overlooking Elm Street was asked by Arlen Spector where the shots came from: His reply was "from right there in the car." Senator Spector just went on to the next question, never asking Miller any specifics. From: Warren Report, New York Times edition, p. 82.
4. Clinton J. Hill. Jacqueline Kennedy's bodyguard reports in Vol. II, pp 138-139 of the Warren Commission Volumes: "I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, and ran to the presidential limousine. Just as I reached it, there was another sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object...it seemed to have some type of echo."
5. Hugh Betzner - Had picture published in Life magazine and was standing right next to the drivers side of the motorcade: He saw a gun in the hand of one of the secret service agents and heard a sound "like firecrackers going off in the car."Link to Betzner’s official statement: http://www.jfk-online.com/betzner.html Source: taped interview with Fred Newcomb.
6. Senator Ralph Yarborough - 3rd car back "Smelled gunpowder in the car." (statement made to press but not to Warren Commission) He was challenged by Newcomb on the phone and he then said "I must have smelled it coming down from the book depository"

[equalizer33]

If the driver was going to turn and shoot Kennedy it would have been with small scale gun, not a clearly visible pistol with smoke and all. This would also imply Jackie, Bobby, and the rest of the family were in on it or some type of deal was made.  I can't buy that and the video and stillsavailable don't give a clear shot of a gun in the driver's hand.

[JConner]

1. The video has been doctored - there appears to be sufficient evidence to indicate the video has in fact been doctored in various ways. I am not a photography/video expert nor have I fully studied this particular aspect to the maximum possible depths. However, the video is suspect, therefore clues found in the video should be found by 'peeling away' the evidence of tampering. The blog article I linked to and quoted from moves in that direction.

2. I first came across this interpretation of the events years ago watching Bill Cooper give a presentation. (I was watching a taped version of the presentation.) He played the Zapruder film several times, and even slowed it down several times. Then he told everyone to 'quit watching Kennedy and watch the driver'. Which I did - and was immediately blown away by what I saw. Or at least what I thought I saw. It appeared blurry and somewhat distorted (along the lines of the tampering mentioned in the blog article) but the overall impression was the driver turned around and shot at Kennedy.

3. There appear to be several eye-witnesses who claimed there was gunfire in, near, or coming from the limo itself.

4. Mrs Kennedy attempts to climb out the rear of the car instead of ducking down and trying to 'ride it out' - appears she felt the shooter(s) were in front of her and very close. Someone (SS agent?) runs up from behind and keeps her in the car. By the way, the fact that Jackie hasn't come forward with a statement that Greer shot her husband proves nothing, considering that (as far as I know) she never said ANYTHING PERIOD about her husband's assassination.

5. The most important thing to remember is that investigating Kennedy's murder is not about proving or disproving one's pet theory. All too often in the patriot movement we get our idea(s) about how things went down, and when challenged with another possibility we become way too defensive and go on the attack and essentially lose the issue in a smorgasborg of interpersonal conflict - which is exactly what the BAD GUYS love to see.

It's like the 'planes vs no-planes', the 'controlled demolition/thermite/thermate vs micro-nukes or particle-beam weapons', and 'Vatican vs Illuminati vs Masons vs International Banksters vs Zionists vs Communists vs Fascists/Nazis vs Merovingians vs British Crown' arguments that seem to lead nowhere, in the end.

We must examine ALL evidence, and OBJECTIVELY look at ALL theories, and keep an open mind in the process. That is what a quest for TRUTH is all about.

Now in regards to the 'Greer' theory, I think it has serious merit. I have not seen anything that DISPROVES it. I have also not seen anything that definitively PROVES it, either. We should not simply state authoritatively 'Greer did it, period' nor should we declare 'the Greer theory has been disproven years ago'.

The FACT is, none of us were THERE, involved in the inner workings of the events of that day. Taking a cue from Oliver Stone, it is likely even the people involved in pulling the trigger(s) did not and probably STILL don't know exactly WHAT all happened and HOW it happened.

The tyrants have a clearly established method of operation - ordo ab chaos - order out of chaos. They create the results they seek to achieve in the midst of a massive fog of confusion, so much so that even the people directly involved don't fully understand what's going on (need to know basis of operating, etc).

We have to keep that in mind - we are simply looking at all the things that DON'T ADD UP which tells us.... what? Not much really, except that various powerful people in high places are committing crimes and trampling on our liberties, and who need to be charged and tried and sentenced for those crimes.

And that day is coming, hopefully sooner than later.

Just my two bytes.

[equalizer33]

You bring up Oliver Stone......I bought JFK 2 Disc Special Edition when it was released a few years ago....on that second disc there is about 3 hours of random interviews, including some with Col. Fletcher Prouty. You may be interested if you haven't check that out before. It's probably my favorite DVD or in the top 3. I think you are pretty much right that it was chaos but I think that would have been too big of a risk to have the driver, who is in plain site, take out JFK, but than again you just never know because they made their minds up he was not going to make it out of there alive no matter what.

[strgzr]

It kind of doesn't matter if the driver shot or not. I myself have gone back and forth on that one. What really matters is that L.H.O. did not fire the fatal shot. He could not possibly have. The kill shot came from the front. The Government placed Oswald behind the president. He may have shot (I don't believe it) or been a "patsy". The Warren commission was a lie. Insert any conspiracy theory here that you like. It has 100% more chance of being true than the official lie, I mean, line.

[strgzr]

It kind of doesn't matter if the driver shot or not. I myself have gone back and forth on that one. What really matters is that L.H.O. did not fire the fatal shot. He could not possibly have. The kill shot came from the front. The Government placed Oswald behind the president. He may have shot (I don't believe it) or been a "patsy". The Warren commission was a lie. Insert any conspiracy theory here that you like. It has 100% more chance of being true than the official lie, I mean, line. I was in 3rd grade. This was the first significant event of my life, from the outside world. Years later it became an obsession to know the truth. That obsession is still with me. Here is an intresting photo. http://tomflocco.com/fs/FbiMemoPhotoLinkBushJfk.htm

[Aqua Teen Hunger Force]

First of all, I was 5 years old when the murder took place and even as a 5 year old, I told my mom," look, that driver shot the President"
NOW FOR A FEW REASONS THAT YOUR TOPIC IS FULL OF HOLES~

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest. Form No. 86
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22 day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Hugh William Betzner, Jr., Address 5922 Velasco, Dallas, Age 22 , Phone No. TA 7-9761

Deposes and says:

I was standing on Houston Street near the intersection of Elm Street. I took a picture of President Kennedy's car as it passed along Houston Street. I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film to take the next picture. I then ran down to the corner of Elm andHouston [sic] Streets, this being the southwest corner. I was standing back from the corner and had to take the pictures through some of the crowd. I ran on down Elm a little more and President Kennedy's car was starting to go down the hill to the triple underpass. I was running trying to keep the President's car in my view and was winding my film as I ran. I was looking down at my camera to see the number of the film as I ran. I took another picture as the President's car was going down the hill on Elm Street. I started to wind my film again and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker or a car had backfired. I looked up and it seemed like there was another loud noise in the matter of a few seconds. I looked down the street and I could see the President's car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped. Then I saw a flash of pink like someone standing up and then sitting back down in the car. Then I ran around so I could look over the back of a monument and I either saw the following then or when I was sitting back down on the corner of Elm Street. I cannot remember exactly where I was when I saw the following: I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pull out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car. Then the President's car sped on under the underpass. Police and a lot of spectators started running up the hill on the opposite side of the street from me to a fence of wood. I assumed that was where the shot was fired from at that time. I kept watching the crowd. Then I came around the monument over to Main Street. I walked down toward where the President's car had stopped. I saw a Police Officer and some men in plain clothes. I don't know who they were. These Police Officers and the men in plain clothes were digging around in the dirt as if they were looking for a bullet. I walked back around the monument over to Elm Street where they were digging in the dirt. I went on across the street and up the embankment to where the fence is located. By this time almost all of the people had left. There were quite a few people down on the street and crowded around a motorcycle. I was looking around the fence as the rumor had spread that that was where the shot had come from. I started figuring where I was when I had taken the third picture and it seemed to me that the fence row would have been in the picture. I saw a group of men who looked like they might be officers and one of them turned out to be Deputy Sheriff Boone. I told him about the picture I had taken. Deputy Sheriff Boone contacted superiors and was told to bring me over to the Sheriff's Office. Deputy Sheriff Boone took my camera and asked me to wait. I waited in the Sheriff's Office and some time later, an hour or two, he brought my camera back and told me that as soon as they got through with the film and they were dry that they would give me the film. A little later he came in and gave me the negatives and told me that they were interested in a couple of pictures and implied that the negatives was all I was going to get back. To the best of my knowledge, this is all I know about this incident.

                                                                                /s/ Hugh William Betzner, Jr.

 

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963

 

                                                                                /s/ Aleen Davis

                                                                                Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas


 ~IS THIS PROOF ENOUGH??? IF NOT TRY THIS~~

Mrs Kennedy attempts to climb out the rear of the car instead of ducking down and trying to 'ride it out' - appears she felt the shooter(s) were in front of her and very close. Someone (SS agent?) runs up from behind and keeps her in the car. By the way, the fact that Jackie hasn't come forward with a statement that Greer shot her husband proves nothing, considering that (as far as I know) she never said ANYTHING PERIOD about her husband's assassination~

Keep in mind, I was 5 years old at this time and could see, on the t.v. screen, the flash of the discharged bullet from the front seat drivers HAND, and I could also see in Jackies face the fear she had of the men in the front seat of that car!!!

So to not get any more personable, I think you may be yet another mole stuck in the truth movement to cast doubt on the evidence!

Anyone that still believes Lee Harvey was the "lone Gunman" need to WAKE UP and smell the conspiricy!

[Aqua Teen Hunger Force]

Mrs Kennedy attempts to climb out the rear of the car instead of ducking down and trying to 'ride it out' - appears she felt the shooter(s) were in front of her and very close. Someone (SS agent?) runs up from behind and keeps her in the car. By the way, the fact that Jackie hasn't come forward with a statement that Greer shot her husband proves nothing, considering that (as far as I know) she never said ANYTHING PERIOD about her husband's assassination.

[Aqua Teen Hunger Force]

Mrs Kennedy attempts to climb out the rear of the car instead of ducking down and trying to 'ride it out' - appears she felt the shooter(s) were in front of her and very close. Someone (SS agent?) runs up from behind and keeps her in the car. By the way, the fact that Jackie hasn't come forward with a statement that Greer shot her husband proves nothing, considering that (as far as I know) she never said ANYTHING PERIOD about her husband's assassination.

Although we won't completely know till Judgement day" and all in the dark will be exposed, I still feel that Jackie knew that if she spilled the beans about that day, her children would "dissapear"

[equalizer33]

Dude if you are calling me a mole simply because I don't believe the driver fired a shot, than you are a complete f**king idiot. Actually if you are saying anyone is a mole because they don't believe the driver fired a shot, than you are still a complete f**king idiot. By the way, who here in this entire thread said they believed the lone gunman theory. You obviously didn't see the entire post I made about JFK and the second disc. Do you even know who Fletcher Prouty is moron? You know, these boards that discuss these type of subjects are full of people like you and that is why more don't get involved because of the obnoxious assertions alot of pencil neck shit heads like yourself constantly make because someone disagrees with you. Quit acting like a bitch because someone doesn't believe something because there is no definitive evidence, eye witness testimonies from 40 years ago posted on the internet aren't concrete. So why don't you just go screw yourself with your elementary attempts to get "personable". On an operation like that, they are not going to risk having the driver fire a shot, plain and simple.....you don't understand how it works, so please quit posing as some person of enlightment and everyone who disagrees is a mole. The fact that you haven't bothered to actually read the posts or you are just too ignorant to comprehend what has been said just discredits anything you say even further. Basically, go f**k yourself with your accusations. Again, people like you are the very reason other people laugh and don't get involved because you are too busy being an smug, obnoxious f**kface pointing fingers when everyone is in agreement on the basics that the shots weren't fired by LHO. That's like somebody walks in your house and blows your dogs brains out and you and your brother sitting on the couch next to you get in a fist fight over what kind of bullet or gun was used instead of focusing attention on the scum who ordered the hit. If anybody is a "mole" as you so smugly put it, than it is yourself with trying to divert this into something other than it was dickface. The perpetrator acting as the accuser is one of the oldest tricks in the book. By the way, that is a Secret Service agent that finally comes to the back of the car and you would know that for sure if you possessed the knowledge you are attempting to exude. You saw it on TV when you were 5? Well, that's it for me, case closed. Let me see if I can make a few phone calls and get John Roberts or Al Gonzalez on this. Thank you so much Fairy Mason. BTW, how many of these documents have you seen first hand? Just curious. The fact that you even reference the "truth movement" just shows your smugness and how you think you are better. Anybody who uses that term is just a tool. EEEWWWW look at me, I'm in the "truth movement" I'm so cool. See that's the difference between me and you. I do the research I do, I read the books I do, I changed my major 2 years ago to history with a minor in political science from pre-pharm because I want to know who we are, where we came from, and how we came to be what we are today....it's not a status symbol or some badge of honor I go around bragging about, it's really who I am and what I want to do, where as it is obvious you are just some yuppy looking for another group to be part of.....don't patronize me with your mole bullshit. Go back to watching cartoons and let us finish our civil, unsmug discussion. I will be beginning law school 11 months from now, so excuse me if I need more than circumstantial evidence to base my views on. I question everything and it has worked out pretty well for me up until this point. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.

[Aqua Teen Hunger Force]

I thought the same thing after I watched the zapruder film.

Then I actually studied the footage.. 

and what is your conclusion??

[Aqua Teen Hunger Force]

Notice the witnesses above?? Or do you not see the previous post as well?

That's ridiculous, the driver did not fire a shot, that is a glare. There would have been live witnesses to account for this had it taken place. He definately slowed the car down enough for the real shooters to have a field day.

YOU are ridiculous!! I suppose you also think that 19 cave-dwelling muslims were responsible for the attacks on 9-11- 2001 as well??

[Aqua Teen Hunger Force]

Dude if you are calling me a mole simply because I don't believe the driver fired a shot, than you are a complete f**king idiot. Actually if you are saying anyone is a mole because they don't believe the driver fired a shot, than you are still a complete f**king idiot. By the way, who here in this entire thread said they believed the lone gunman theory. You obviously didn't see the entire post I made about JFK and the second disc. Do you even know who Fletcher Prouty is moron? You know, these boards that discuss these type of subjects are full of people like you and that is why more don't get involved because of the obnoxious assertions alot of pencil neck shit heads like yourself constantly make because someone disagrees with you. Quit acting like a bitch because someone doesn't believe something because there is no definitive evidence, eye witness testimonies from 40 years ago posted on the internet aren't concrete. So why don't you just go screw yourself with your elementary attempts to get "personable". On an operation like that, they are not going to risk having the driver fire a shot, plain and simple.....you don't understand how it works, so please quit posing as some person of enlightment and everyone who disagrees is a mole. The fact that you haven't bothered to actually read the posts or you are just too ignorant to comprehend what has been said just discredits anything you say even further. Basically, go f**k yourself with your accusations. Again, people like you are the very reason other people laugh and don't get involved because you are too busy being an smug, obnoxious f**kface pointing fingers when everyone is in agreement on the basics that the shots weren't fired by LHO. That's like somebody walks in your house and blows your dogs brains out and you and your brother sitting on the couch next to you get in a fist fight over what kind of bullet or gun was used instead of focusing attention on the scum who ordered the hit. If anybody is a "mole" as you so smugly put it, than it is yourself with trying to divert this into something other than it was dickface. The perpetrator acting as the accuser is one of the oldest tricks in the book. By the way, that is a Secret Service agent that finally comes to the back of the car and you would know that for sure if you possessed the knowledge you are attempting to exude. You saw it on TV when you were 5? Well, that's it for me, case closed. Let me see if I can make a few phone calls and get John Roberts or Al Gonzalez on this. Thank you so much Fairy Mason. BTW, how many of these documents have you seen first hand? Just curious. The fact that you even reference the "truth movement" just shows your smugness and how you think you are better. Anybody who uses that term is just a tool. EEEWWWW look at me, I'm in the "truth movement" I'm so cool. See that's the difference between me and you. I do the research I do, I read the books I do, I changed my major 2 years ago to history with a minor in political science from pre-pharm because I want to know who we are, where we came from, and how we came to be what we are today....it's not a status symbol or some badge of honor I go around bragging about, it's really who I am and what I want to do, where as it is obvious you are just some yuppy looking for another group to be part of.....don't patronize me with your mole bullshit. Go back to watching cartoons and let us finish our civil, unsmug discussion. I will be beginning law school 11 months from now, so excuse me if I need more than circumstantial evidence to base my views on. I question everything and it has worked out pretty well for me up until this point. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.

Do you feel better now that you proved how intellegent you are with all that "colorful" language you used in your reply, sweetheart??

I don't need to vindicate what I have posted. The truth is there for all that have
"eyes to see"!!

Also, I have been on this planet for 50 years next month, and am a disabled veteran of viet-nam, a little old to be a yuppy, sweetheart!

[equalizer33]

Notice the witnesses above?? Or do you not see the previous post as well?


YOU are ridiculous!! I suppose you also think that 19 cave-dwelling muslims were responsible for the attacks on 9-11- 2001 as well??

Just face it, you got owned. Nice attempt to divert the subject to something entirely different though. So because I don't believe the driver fired a shot, I must be a mole sent here by the US governemnt and I must believe the ridiculous story the government fed us after 9/11? That makes alot of sense. By the way, since you didn't bother to actually read the posts correctly, believing the driver didn't fire a shot does not equal believing LHO was the lone gunman. I don't even believe he fired a shot at all and the evidence proves it. WOW! You are a great philosopher who rivals Socrates with your astute observations. Again, people like you are the ones who run people off these boards that discuss these subjects. They see some crazy loon ranting and raving because someone doesn't agree with their version of the story. Like I said before, go back to watching cartoons. You are a loon not because you believe the driver fired a shot, but that anyone who disagrees with you is a supersecret top clearance inspector gadget mole sent here by shape shifters. Keep trying to divert serious discussions into ridiculous mode and see how far that gets you.

[equalizer33]

Do you feel better now that you proved how intellegent you are with all that "colorful" language you used in your reply, sweetheart??

I don't need to vindicate what I have posted. The truth is there for all that have
"eyes to see"!!

Also, I have been on this planet for 50 years next month, and am a disabled veteran of viet-nam, a little old to be a yuppy, sweetheart!

Yea, you are right, it's there for all to see how ridiculous your posts are. You can't actually debate me, so you just try and dismiss it as me not being intelligent because I used cuss words, nice try. Trust me bro, cuss words have zero bearing on intelligence, you are just trying to find excuses not to respond to my questions with actual answers. There isn't an age restriction on being a yuppy. Vietnam is one word and has never been seperated by a hyphen, so I kinda doubt you have ever been there. Somone who has actually been there, like my father and uncles, don't get on the internet and brag about it or try to use as leverage in a debate (which this is far from at this point). Matter of fact, most people I know that were there don't like to talk about it at all, much less act like they are the second coming because they were there. Like I said before, if it is truth you are looking for Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall. I only deal with facts, not truth. Your refusal to address my questions indicates pretty clearly that you don't know what you are talking about and don't have confidence in what you say.

[Aqua Teen Hunger Force]

Although we won't completely know till Judgement day" and all in the dark will be exposed, I still feel that Jackie knew that if she spilled the beans about that day, her children would "dissapear"

that is exactly why she never said anything!

[Aqua Teen Hunger Force]

Quasar, you are blind my freind, I saw the friggin driver shoot our president that  day on the T.V. and I was only 5 years old, man some people, and you probably think Osama ordered and 19 arabs took those planes and flew them into the towers!
DEE-DUH-DEE!

[Dig]

Driver?

You guys are still talking about the driver?

It was a Turkey Shoot and there were 2 other locations to slaughter him if they did not get him in the motorcade.

As soon as he set foot in Dallas he was dead.  Watch these videos that History Channel paid for but refuses to pay:


http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=2554.0

[Beelze-bush]

 http://infowars-shop.stores.yahoo.net/killzone.html



by Craig Roberts

In 1987, former US Marine sniper Craig Roberts, a seasoned veteran of the Vietnam war, stood for the first time at the 6th floor "sniper's nest" window of the Texas Schoolbook Depository. As he looked down into what the US Government maintains was the kill zone used by Lee Harvey Oswald, he immediately knew that the Warren Commission's verdict that Oswald, acting alone, fired three shots in 5.6 seconds from a bolt-action rifle, killing John F. Kennedy was a lie. At that moment Roberts, by then a 20-year veteran police officer and recognized authority on sniping, began an investigation that would last six years, take him into the shadow world of the clandestine intelligence community--and beyond. "Kill Zone" names the killers, lifts the veil of secrecy from the event, and takes the reader from Dealey Plaza 1963 to the New World Order and who is really in charge of the governments of the world--and who ordered Kennedy's death and why.

Excerpt: Page 46-47

According to Fletcher Prouty, "After the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy decided he would change the entire structure of how this government would carry out covert operations. He began transferring covert operations directly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Shortly after this decision was made, he fired Allen Dulles as Chief of the CIA. That was the signal to the CIA of what Kennedy was going to do next-what he had done.

"Kennedy was changing the status quo, from Big Business to the military; from disgruntled intelligence agents to Cubans and their supporters…. Kennedy had to go. The mechanism was in place."

Add to this all of the other factors mentioned above and one has more than sufficient motive for murder.

But knocking off a foreign dictator is one thing. Taking out the President of the United States-inside the country-is something else. It would be an extremely dangerous prospect at best, a disaster to those concerned if anything went wrong. For the conspirators, it must have boiled down to "we may have a great deal to lose if things go wrong, but we have much, much more to gain if things go right." And after all, if the top players are well enough insulated, then the prospect of discovery decreased at every level of the operation.

Due to lack of sufficient hard evidence-since most has long since been altered or destroyed-it cannot be proved beyond all doubt what exactly happened at Dealey Plaza that day. However, by piecing together what we do know from the numerous sources and multitude that there should be no question that the case should be reopened and investigated by proper authorities.

It is now time to reconstruct the crime utilizing what is known, and in some areas, what we can logically speculate must have occurred.

Softbound, 6 x 8.5", 252 pages



Kill Zone
BK-KZ-CR-1$19.95
 
 

This one's available at http://www.jimmarrs.com/ or Amazon.

[Beelze-bush]

November 22, 1963. I was sitting in a classroom watching the event on black and white tv. The Zakruder film was not available that day. All I saw was the mainstream media coverup and framing of Lee Harvey Oswald. I was 8 years old. There are still websites that demonize Jim Garrison. That's a crime going on today. I saved the interview of Jim Marrs by Alex. The similarities between JFK's assassination and 9/11 are interesting.

[equalizer33]

Driver?

You guys are still talking about the driver?

It was a Turkey Shoot and there were 2 other locations to slaughter him if they did not get him in the motorcade.

As soon as he set foot in Dallas he was dead.  Watch these videos that History Channel paid for but refuses to pay:


http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=2554.0

Right on Sane, that is a good DVD....also the extras DVD on the JFK Special Edition is a solid 4 or 5 hours of additional info, including interviews with Fletcher Prouty.....you can't use logic with some of these people. This Auqa person is completely delusional...they remember seeing it when they were 5 years old? Give me a break man. And if you don't agree with them, you must believe the official 9/11 story too?? Thank makes alot of sense. But then again, what do you expect from an adult that watches cartoons. There were teams of shooters, plain and simple. The driver did not shoot. I am beginning to believe this Auqa person is purposely trying to act as crazy as possible to give everyone that talks about these subject look like they are completely insane. Everyone one of their posts are so incredibly outrageous, with little to no facts, it's extremely suspicious.