Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP

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Offline Freeski

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Re: Bob Barr’s national field director attacks Ron Paul on MySpace blog
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2008, 07:28:34 am »
Dude you really got it all backwards on this one and open borders is not a libertarian view at all.  Local sovereignty down to the individual is a libertarian view.  The local community to the town to the city to the county to the state to the country.  The anti-libertarian view is when the central government acts unawfully and/or unconstitutionally to take away the liberties of the individuals within a locale. The plant manager in North Dakota can go get his workers wherever he sees fit as long as they do not impede on the rights of the individuals within the local community on up to the country's laws and/or constitution.  The main issue has nothing to do with the workers as they come here not just for jobs but for the socialized medicine/education/social security/etc.  As RP has outlined, the most effective way to deal with the immigration issue is to stop subsidizing the illegal aliens.  It is this subsidizing of the illegal workforce that is totally anti-libertarian.  In addition, let us look at the CEO of the company.  That person is subsidized to move the entire plant off shore.  Why should American companies be subsidized for moving their plants off shore with our taxpayer money?  In addition what about the company that completely moves off shore (i.e. Halliburton which is now a Dubai company and has been for over 2 years), should they get military contracts (taxpayer money) to kill more innocent people with taxpayer money?  How is this corporate/plant manager behaviour libertarian?

In any case I agree with the earlier comment about a constitution party as it keeps things very simple.  There is no disputing the constitution.  Libertarian can get caught up in a whole NWO subplot of no country, no borders, no religion, blah blah.

Okay, I should have stated more clearly that the idea of a borderless world is an extreme utopian view of liberty, bordering on anarchism, and not a big L Libertarian position, because you're right, preserving sovereignty and local governance are important tenets of the Libertarian Party, in Canada as well as the U.S. I've lost all faith in the entire party system so I tend to think from an idealistic point of view. Apologies for getting that wrong.
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Dig

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Re: Bob Barr’s national field director attacks Ron Paul on MySpace blog
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2008, 07:41:41 am »
the idea of a borderless world is an extreme utopian view of liberty, bordering on anarchism, and not a big L Libertarian position, because you're right, preserving sovereignty and local governance are important tenets of the Libertarian Party, in Canada as well as the U.S.

Holy crap, I could not have put it better myself. Nice summary.
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Offline Stan

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Re: Bob Barr’s national field director attacks Ron Paul on MySpace blog
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2008, 10:29:15 am »

Offline 37

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GoodBush

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Huckabee, Barr to Compete for Title of Washington's Funniest Celebrity
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2008, 11:21:11 am »
Huckabee, Barr to Compete for Title of Washington's Funniest Celebrity

Oh dear. It's time once again for the awkward, occasionally humiliating ritual that is the annual Funniest Celebrity in Washington Contest. The very notion that Washington has "celebrities" who are in any measurable way "funny" is hard enough to swallow, but this year's line-up looks to be stacked with even more potential for cringe-worthy one-liners than usual.

Former presidential candidate and Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr top the bill of competing celebrities, with Huckabee the clear front-runner in that he's at least highly likable. Other contestants include Grover Norquist, who has somehow earned a reputation for being funny even though he isn't (he also told jokes, bad ones, at the launch party of the D.C. version of The Onion), Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA; no idea if he's funny), radio personality Jim Bohannon (who?), President of the Motion Picture Association of America Dan Glickman (hopefully he'll have some screenwriters pen his jokes), President of the Independent Women’s forum Michelle Bernard (your guess is as good as mine), Hardball’s David Shuster (willing to believe he might be sort of angry-funny, especially if he goes there about the Clintons again), CNN Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre (really hard to picture that) and Al Jazeera Radio host Riz Khan (no clue).

So we admit we're intrigued by this year's line-up, and we'll have a reviewer there to give you the blow by blow the next day. But intrigued enough to suggest you pay a whopping $200 per person (it's a charity event, you see, benefiting VSA arts)? Not unless you're independently wealthy.

The 15th annual Funniest Celebrity in Washington Contest takes place Wednesday, September 10 at 7 p.m. at the DC Improv.
http://dcist.com/2008/09/09/huckabee_barr_to_compete_for_title.php

GoodBush

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Re: Huckabee, Barr to Compete for Title of Washington's Funniest Celebrity
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2008, 11:23:01 am »
Bob Barr is pathetic.

GoodBush

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Re: Bob Barr defending Ed E. Kramer(suspected CHILD MOLESTER) delays trial
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2008, 11:33:02 am »
Bob Barr postpones his defense of alleged child molester
September 10th, 2008

Former federal prosecutor Bob Barr took a case last year defending sci-fi author and accused child molester Edward Kramer. Now he’s asked the judge to postpone the trial until after the November 4 election.

Edward Kramer founded DragonCon, a sci-fi/fantasy and gaming convention held annually in Atlanta. He has been accused of molesting three teenage boys. Numerous delays have violated his constitutional right to a speedy trial, he says.

Read the story at the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Thanks to John C. Jackson for calling IPR’s attention to this story.

Barr, who in 2007 penned an editorial lamenting support for Genarlow Wilson, has previously advocated the distribution of child pornography, according to some.

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/09/bob-barr-postpones-his-defense-of-alleged-child-molester/

GoodBush

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LP of Mass. elector withdraws support for substitution, could cost Barr ballot
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2008, 11:46:59 am »
LP of Mass. elector withdraws support for substitution, could cost Barr ballot access

From Arthur Torrey, anti-Barr Libertarian presidential elector who, until today, said he would go along with “substitution” in Massachusetts, where signatures were collected in George Phillies’s name:

I have sent the following message to the Mass. Secretary of States Office and the attorneys representing our side in the litigation concerning the substitution of Barr/Root for Phillies / Bennet. Essentially it means that if I have anything to say about it, Bob Barr will NOT be on the Ballot in Mass. I am deleting some addresses, otherwise it is as sent…

To whom it may concern;

I am one of the Presidential Elector Candidates for the Libertarian Party of Massachusetts (LPMA). As such I feel that it is necessary and appropriate that I express my feelings concerning the ongoing litigation concerning the right of the LPMA to substitute the names of the National Libertarian Party nominees for President and Vice President for those of George Phillies and Chris Bennet whose names currently appear on the LPMA petitions for the offices.

I wish it to be known that as a Presidential Elector Candidate, while I support the RIGHT of the LPMA and it’s electors to make a substitution, I am no longer willing to do so in the case of Bob Barr and Wayne Allen Root. I will NOT pledge to vote for Barr / Root in the event that their ticket wins the vote in Mass. and I will NOT sign any agreement to authorize the substitution of their names on for those of Phillies / Bennet on the presidential ballot.

This decision is due to actions taken by the Barr / Root campaign subsequent to this litigation being filed and, in my opinion, does not impact the basic facts of this case. While it is very true that there are considerable differences between Barr / Root and Phillies / Bennet as the Secretary of State alleges in the defense document, this is properly a matter for the members of the Libertarian Party to decide, not the Secretary.

I firmly believe that the basic circumstances of the case, which are that the LPMA initiated its petition drive with Phillies / Bennet under the advice of the Secretary of States Office that *IF* the LPMA desired to make a substitution, then this would be permitted. It is manifestly unfair for the Secretary’s office to change the “rules of the game” in the middle of the petitioning process.

As both a voter and taxpayer I would pray that, while I do not support substitution in THIS instance, the Court will see fit to rule that the electors have the right to substitute a candidate if they so choose, and direct the Secretary of State to develop fair and consistent rules for doing so. This would help to avoid the trouble and expense of future litigation on this topic.

Thank you,

ART

Arthur Torrey
LPMA Operations Facilitator
LPMA Presidential Elector, who will NOT vote for Barr!
Town Meeting Representative
Speaking only as myself unless otherwise indicated!

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/09/lp-of-mass-elector-withdraws-support-for-substitution-could-cause-barr-ballot-access/

Offline 2Revolutions

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2008, 02:09:42 pm »
Bob Barr's campaign release statement

http://campaign.blog.bobbarr2008.com/2008/09/11/principled-leadership-in-times-of-crisis/

Principled Leadership in Times of Crisis

September 11th, 2008 by Russ Verney

Before I move forward with an important report for today, I would like to recognize and remember the 2,819 men and women who lost their lives seven years ago.  As a result of the attacks of September 11th, Americans came together, setting aside differences in order mourn our shared losses and assist our neighbors in need.

May we never forget . . .

In times of crisis, strength in leadership requires boldness of character, clear direction and firm resolve.  As we witnessed after the attacks of September 11th, President George W. Bush showed incredible leadership as he stood atop a fire truck amidst the rubble of the twin towers to rally America.

While the quality of leadership is rare enough, principled leaders are few and far between.  Those who do appear to posses the traits necessary to lead, for reasons only known to themselves, frequently choose not to stand on principle.

Yesterday, our vice presidential candidate, Wayne Allyn Root, offered to step aside to allow Congressman Ron Paul an opportunity to serve on the presidential ticket of the Libertarian Party and move the agenda of Liberty forward.

On the surface, a simple offer was extended. In fact it was principled leadership at its finest.

Wayne Allyn Root showed his deep commitment to the principles of our cause. Without hesitation or regard to the effort, time and personal funds he has committed to the issues of freedom, smaller government, less taxes and the Libertarian ticket, Wayne offered to step aside to allow another leader to step up.

I could not be more proud of his actions and selflessness.

As America is hurling towards crisis on many fronts, we need principled leaders like Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root.  We have no time to waste on anything other than spreading the message of smaller government, less taxes, and more personal freedom issues across this nation.

That brings me to my next point.

Today our campaign is being criticized by a few people for my decision to not attend a press conference sponsored by Ron Paul’s political action committee. I thought I would take a minute to explain to you why I made that decision.

It became evident to me after meeting with Ron Paul’s staff that this media event was not about promoting the liberty agenda; it was about promoting a man.  That’s not what we’re in this for.

After rumors were spread in advance of the news conference that Bob Barr was dropping from the race – just to hype the event – I became even more hesitant to attend.  Those tactics were unacceptable and when asked about it, Ron Paul’s staff simply smiled and said it would attract the press.

When I was provided a copy of Ron Paul’s prepared remarks just hours before the start of the planned news conference it became clear to me that the message Ron Paul intended to deliver was essentially to scatter the votes for the liberty agenda to the four winds.

His remarks not only encouraged anyone listening to support any one of four candidates, he also applauded ‘non-voters’. To me encouraging people not to vote is not principled leadership for the Liberty agenda.

I made the decision that attending that news conference was not consistent with Bob Barr’s principled leadership for the Liberty agenda.

Once I informed Ron Paul’s staff of my decision I was rudely informed that my decision would have permanent ramifications, I was personally threatened and Bob Barr was politically threatened. That’s a far cry from principled leadership.

One thing that did occur as a result of yesterday’s events is a clear separation of certain factions.  Up until now, we have been dealing with two groups, those who want to advance the issues of liberty and those who have been drawn into a cult of personality.

There are those who support a specific politician and then there are those who support the liberty agenda regardless of standard-bearer.

Bob Barr, Wayne Allyn Root and the Libertarian Party stand for the issues of personal freedom and responsible government. As they have proven, both Bob and Wayne are willing to lead or follow for the advancement of our issues.

Now is their time to lead.

As we move into the final 50 days of the campaign we are in place to make a strong impact on the future of our country.

At the end of the day, the number of votes cast in support of the Liberty agenda in the General Election will influence the national political agenda of the next four years.

If we do our jobs, work hard and give us much as possible until Election Day, our voices will be heard and our agenda of smaller government, lower taxes, more personal freedom and government accountability will be on the table for years to come.

I appreciate your commitment and dedication.

Those who wish to remain ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, want what never was and what never will be.  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline 2Revolutions

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2008, 02:12:49 pm »
If any you doubted that Bob Barr was controlled opposition, doubt no more

Excerpt from release statement

In times of crisis, strength in leadership requires boldness of character, clear direction and firm resolve.  As we witnessed after the attacks of September 11th, President George W. Bush showed incredible leadership as he stood atop a fire truck amidst the rubble of the twin towers to rally America.
Those who wish to remain ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, want what never was and what never will be.  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Stan

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2008, 02:19:06 pm »
If any you doubted that Bob Barr was controlled opposition, doubt no more

Excerpt from release statement

In times of crisis, strength in leadership requires boldness of character, clear direction and firm resolve.  As we witnessed after the attacks of September 11th, President George W. Bush showed incredible leadership as he stood atop a fire truck amidst the rubble of the twin towers to rally America.

I found that odd myself. It's basically a slightly toned down version of Ferguson's blog so maybe it was the opinion of the campaign afterall.  ::)

Offline 1776blues

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Re: Bob Barr defending Ed E. Kramer(suspected CHILD MOLESTER) delays trial
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2008, 03:23:41 pm »
Edward E. Kramer
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_E._Kramer
Edward E. Kramer (born on March 20, 1961) is an American editor and author of numerous science fiction, fantasy, and horror works, and co-founder of the Dragon Con fan convention in Atlanta, Georgia. He lives in Duluth, Georgia.
Biography
Kramer is the editor of the anthologies Dark Love and Grails published by Roc Books; The Sandman: Book of Dreams (with Neil Gaiman) (HarperPrism); The Crow: Shattered Lives and Broken Dreams (with James O'Barr) (Random House); Free Space (Tor Books); Forbidden Acts (Avon Books); Elric: Tales of the White Wolf and Pawn of Chaos: Tales of the Eternal Champion (based on the works and characters of Michael Moorcock), Dante's Disciples, Tombs, and the Dark Destiny trilogy (White Wolf); and Strange Attraction: Turns of the Midnight Carnival Wheel (Bereshith Publishing), with many additional works both in print and in progress.

Kramer is a member of both the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America and Horror Writers Association (serving as both Vice-President and Trustee), and served on the board of the World Fantasy Convention and World Horror Society.[1] His credits include more than a dozen published works of fiction and non-fiction, and a decade of work as a music critic and photojournalist. He co-wrote and directed the digital feature Terror at Tate Manor, which debuted as a direct-to-Internet film.

His literary works have been nominated for the World Fantasy Award, the British Fantasy Award, and the International Horror Guild Award, and he is the recipient of the first Prometheus Special Award presented by the Libertarian Futurist Society, with co-editor Brad Linaweaver, for Free Space.

In 1987, he founded Dragon Con, North America's largest convention dedicated to science fiction, fantasy, comics, gaming, and the popular arts. He served as its chairman for fourteen years and oversaw its growth from 1,400 attendance in its inaugural year to over 20,000 in 2000.

He has also chaired the 1990 Atlanta Origins convention, the 1992 Georgia World Fantasy Convention[2] and the Nebula Awards Weekend, and both the Atlanta World Horror Convention and the North American Science Fiction Convention (NASFiC) in 1995.[3] In 1999, he hosted the Atlanta World Horror Convention and Los Angeles's Bram Stoker Award Weekend.

Kramer, who was born in Brooklyn, New York, is a graduate of Emory College and the Emory University School of Medicine.[4]

While working on an anthology proposal based on Frank Herbert's Dune in 1997, Kramer fostered a literary partnership between writers Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson.[5] He is credited as the "bridge" to their additions to the Dune universe in each volume of the first trilogy, Dune: House Atreides, Dune: House Harkonnen and Dune: House Corrino.


[edit] Criminal allegations & civil rights actions
In 2000, Kramer was arrested for an alleged domestic incident following an anonymous phone call; he was eventually charged with aggravated child molestation. Kramer has lived under house arrest at his home in Duluth since late 2000 while awaiting trial. No trial date has been set. A Federal Civil Rights Action was filed against the local county by Kramer in 2001. The National Center for Reason and Justice sponsors a defense fund on his behalf.

In May 2005, Kramer filed a motion asserting speedy trial rights, demanding the case go to trial; the motion was never heard. In November 2006, a follow-up motion demanding dismissal of charges for violation of civil rights, including speedy trial rights was denied, and is on appeal. Former Georgia Congressman and Intelligence official Bob Barr entered an Amicus curiae citing the Court to, "rebuke the entities responsible in the strongest language available... that this kind of illicit, illegal confluence of dilatory, patently constitutionally infirm behavior be ended and effectively condemned."

United Nations representative for Aguda, United States Holocaust Memorial Council, and Penn Law School Adjunct Professor Harry Reicher's Amicus to the Court, resolved: "Treatment such as that endured by Ed Kramer is not only unacceptable, but deeply antithetical, indeed offensive, to notions of justice that are deeply ingrained in the legal culture of United States, and that have suffused, and found their replication in, the post-World War II human rights movement."

End Wikipedia

Why would Bob Barr defend or even be tied up with someone like this? Seems kind of odd.......to me anyway.

Okay, I have to ask, is this guy a known child molester? If not, who placed the anonymous phone call? To automatically assume he is guilty is wrong and I'd reserve judgement until it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

I thought we were a bit more fair here at prison planet when it comes to us vesus the system and their criminal ways. Was it his wife/ex-wife/a neighbor who called CPS and the Police. Everybody has the right to defend themself in court.

Now as for this statement by Barr's gopher I take issue with.
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it

is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new

Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its

powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect the

Offline C

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2008, 03:33:08 pm »
Exactly, if he has hurt and abused kids in any way he should go to jail but I am saddened that sometimes PrisonPlanet seems to jump on the bandwagon and attack an individual for something that wasn't proven and who hasn't even had a trial. I thought that this site campaigns against the so called abuse industry and their phony psychologists who try to make it seem that every adult who interacts with a child and shows them love and support and isn't their parent a potential child molestor.
"Sex-negating morality first appears as the demand of a group which has economic and political power, and is directed against the other members of society for the purpose of securing and increasing this power." Reich (1931)

Offline Dig

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Re: Bob Barr defending Ed E. Kramer(suspected CHILD MOLESTER) delays trial
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2008, 03:34:39 pm »
Okay, I have to ask, is this guy a known child molester? If not, who placed the anonymous phone call? To automatically assume he is guilty is wrong and I'd reserve judgement until it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

I thought we were a bit more fair here at prison planet when it comes to us vesus the system and their criminal ways. Was it his wife/ex-wife/a neighbor who called CPS and the Police. Everybody has the right to defend themself in court.

Now as for this statement by Barr's gopher I take issue with.


Goodbush'd point is the following:

No matter what he is, he has the right to a speedy trial, but Bobb Barr is too busy dealing with an election to take care of his client that seems to be in a hell of a predicament.  In addition, if the guy is guilty and this is a stalling tactic, than Bob Barr is hardly a Libertarian as he is making the taxpayers pay extra for the prosecution of said villain.  Either way, he does not seem like the kind of guy I want as a public servant.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline 1776blues

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2008, 03:38:56 pm »
Privacy: We must protect the privacy and civil liberties of all persons under US jurisdiction. We must repeal or radically change the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the FISA legislation. We must reject the notion and practice of torture, eliminations of habeas corpus, secret tribunals, and secret prisons. We must deny immunity for corporations that spy willingly on the people for the benefit of the government. We must reject the unitary presidency, the illegal use of signing statements and excessive use of executive orders.

Where does Barr think it is not about liberty? According to the statement its clear civil liberty is stated, its just not the only issue. Yep Barr is a plant!

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it

is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new

Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its

powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect the

Offline 1776blues

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Re: Bob Barr defending Ed E. Kramer(suspected CHILD MOLESTER) delays trial
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2008, 03:41:37 pm »
Goodbush'd point is the following:

No matter what he is, he has the right to a speedy trial, but Bobb Barr is too busy dealing with an election to take care of his client that seems to be in a hell of a predicament.  In addition, if the guy is guilty and this is a stalling tactic, than Bob Barr is hardly a Libertarian as he is making the taxpayers pay extra for the prosecution of said villain.  Either way, he does not seem like the kind of guy I want as a public servant.

Point made and taken! Thanks Sane!
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it

is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new

Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its

powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect the

Offline vcif

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2008, 05:58:03 pm »
The whole illegal thing is a complex issue especially for true libertarians who would otherwise support open borders. The problem is not really the illegal aliens, but the welfare state itself. Most people will cite the free-rider issues of health care and school, mostly. There would be no free-rider problem, if there were not a free ride to be taken.

Another issue is that illegal aliens are living like Americans should be living. They pay only Constitutional taxes, like excise taxes, and they get paid in exchange for their labor without the invasive income tax.

As far as the labor supply is concerned, one may say that borders and labor laws restrict the supply of labor thereby driving up its price. Is this good or bad? I don't know, but it certainly increases the cost of labor overall.

In any event, Barr is a tool and an obvious plant. I wish the Libertarian Party were the libertarian party.

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2008, 06:02:30 pm »
In any event, Barr is a tool and an obvious plant. I wish the Libertarian Party were the libertarian party.

Well said  :)  ;)  :D  ;D

Offline clearmyst

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Re: Bob Barr’s national field director attacks Ron Paul on MySpace blog
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2008, 10:15:40 pm »
Okay, I should have stated more clearly that the idea of a borderless world is an extreme utopian view of liberty, bordering on anarchism, and not a big L Libertarian position, because you're right, preserving sovereignty and local governance are important tenets of the Libertarian Party, in Canada as well as the U.S. I've lost all faith in the entire party system so I tend to think from an idealistic point of view. Apologies for getting that wrong.

Libertarian and Anarchism are not exclusive by any means.
You've only to look at the philosophy of Rothbard for example to see how easily they fit together.
Its the media form of anarchy that gets pushed(the masks, burning things, etc.. and now is a  common scapegoat) when in reality a truer form of anarchy is a leaderless society as the word means. Everyone conducts their own affairs and trade fully unrestricted and uninhibited unless they violate someone else doing this.
No masters at all and no serfs. Thats they way it ought to be.

There's a whole lot of overlap between Constitutionalism, Libertarianism,Anarchism, you dont have to throw the baby out with the bathwater as it were, the best points of each one of these would give us back our freedom we had prior to the concept of governments which is unnatural and has not been around forever.

Remember the office of president was to be a figurehead in the sense of having no unitary power to enact laws, only to protect the rights of others and order the army to war in case of an invasion.

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The Barr Campaign is Over
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2008, 11:12:25 pm »
The Barr Campaign is Over
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Barr's campaign for President fell off a cliff yesterday. It's time for those who love liberty to redirect their resources elsewhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by David F. Nolan
(Libertarian)
Thursday, September 11, 2008
As of yesterday afternoon, Bob Barr's Presidential campaign is effectively over. There were signs of serious trouble even before yesterday, but his "no-show" at Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty news conference -- followed by an insulting suggestion that Ron should join Barr on the LP ticket in the VP slot -- demonstrated just how out-of-touch the Barr campaign is, and how poor Barr's vote total is likely to be.

In earlier articles here on nolanchart.com I tried to give Barr every benefit of the doubt. I observed that in theory he should be one of the Libertarian Party's stronger Presidential candidates. I opined that while his pronouncements on the campaign trail were hardly hard-core libertarian, they were mostly to-the-point and well stated. I did not support him for the nomination, but I was more or less comfortable supporting him once he became the LP nominee.

There has been evidence all along that the Barr '08 campaign has been mismanaged. Ballot access drives were begun late, and conducted erratically. As of today, it appears that Barr's name will be on the ballot in 46 or 47 states. (Harry Browne appeared on 50 ballots in 1996 and 49 in 2000. Michael Badnarik made it onto 48 in 2004.) Barr has failed to achieve ballot status in West Virginia, due entirely to Shane Cory's ineptitude, and there are lawsuits pending in five states (LA, MA, ME, OK and PA) to determine whether Barr will be on the ballot.

Fundraising has also been a flop. As I write this, the fundraising "meter" on the Barr '08 website shows the total raised by the campaign at $881,500 -- about $700,000 since the Denver nominating convention. That works out to about $6,400 a day or $200,000/month. In the days leading up to the nomination, Barr's people were throwing around numbers like $20 million. The reality is likely to be barely more than $1 million.

But all that would be beside the point if Bob Barr were campaigning proudly as a Libertarian and taking advantage of every opportunity to reach out to like-minded Americans.

Unfortunately, he's not. Following advice from his campaign manager, Russ Verney, Barr has avoided use of the "L" word wherever possible. There's a big empty space in the banner at the top of the Barr '08 website, where the word LIBERTARIAN could (and should) appear. It doesn't, despite several suggestions that this be remedied. Barr's campaign literature, signs and bumper stickers do not include the "L" word either. And a press release issued by the campaign earlier this week describes Barr as a "Former Congressman" with no mention of the Libertarian Party.

Clearly, Barr is not running as a Libertarian; he's running as an independent candidate: "Former Congressman Bob Barr." Which may be just as well, given the way he's been behaving.

Yesterday, Congressman Ron Paul held a news conference to denounce the two-party duopoly. He invited four alternative candidates -- Chuck Baldwin, Bob Barr, Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader -- to participate. Baldwin, McKinney and Nader showed up; Barr did not. Instead, he held a separate follow-up conference of his own at which he tooted his own horn and "invited" Ron Paul to be his running mate. This was insanely stupid, for several reasons. First, because Barr has no authority to unilaterally change running-mates. Second, because it's a insult to Ron Paul, who is far better known and more widely admired. (Reportedly, Ron Paul and his top people are furious.) And third, because even if Ron Paul accepted the invitation and the Libertarian National Committee approved the substitution, it is too late to make a substitution on most states' ballots.

For a description of what happened at the Campaign for Liberty press conference, see this Washington Post article.

Why has the Barr campaign has gone so badly awry? The simple answer is that the two men running it -- Russ Verney and Shane Cory -- are not Libertarians, do not understand what motivates Libertarian activists, and have no interest in building the LP. Verney is a gun-for-hire of no discernible ideology. Cory is a Republican who left his former job at LP headquarters in disgrace, after abusing his authority prior to the Denver convention. (Just today, Verney posted a Campaign Update on the Barr '08 website, praising George W. Bush for his "leadership" during the days following the 9/11 attacks seven years ago. Any true Libertarian would have instead pointed out that Bush has USED the 9/11 attacks as an excuse to erode our civil liberties!)

With these two running the campaign it will continue to embarrass Libertarians and waste our resources. Bob Barr will never qualify for inclusion in the phony "Presidential debates." He will not get the 5% of the vote that would qualify the LP for future matching funds -- which it should not accept in any case. Indeed, at this point it seems likely that Barr will not get even 1% of the popular vote. (Bettors on intrade.com are currently betting 2:1 against Barr receiving 1%.)

So what's a Libertarian to do?

First, accept that the fact that the Barr '08 campaign is effectively over. Don't waste any time or money supporting a campaign that avoids the "L" word, has demonstrated its incompetence time and again, and goes out of its way to insult friends and allies.

By all means, vote for Bob Barr in November. I plan to, and I urge every Libertarian to do likewise. Whatever vote Barr receives will be seen by most people as "the Libertarian vote" and we want that to be as high as possible. And if you want to campaign for Barr locally, then do so. Print up flyers, put up homemade campaign signs, etc. But do not, under any circumstances, send any money to the Barr '08 campaign. Most of the money will be wasted, and the rest will be spent muddying the waters about what genuine libertarianism is all about.

If you are inclined to contribute to a Libertarian campaign, send your money to someone who will make good use of it. Two examples are Mike Munger and Morey Straus.

If you are burned out on politics, but still want to support the battle for individual rights and liberty, send your money to an outfit like the Institute for Justice. Contribute to the local animal shelter. Or take your kids to the park and buy them ice cream. In sum, do something that will actually advance the cause of liberty or in some other way make your world a better place.
http://www.nolanchart.com/article4805.html

GoodBush

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2008, 11:14:46 pm »
September 11, 2008
Bob Barr Campaign Digs Deeper Hole

Posted by Anthony Gregory at September 11, 2008 12:43 PM

In a statement today, the Barr campaign manages to attack Ron Paul yet again (while somehow finding an excuse to praise President Bush for his "leadership" on 9/11). They say that Ron Paul's meeting yesterday was all about promoting himself, and yet it was also supposedly about "scatter[ing] the votes for the liberty agenda to the four winds." Bah. Barr would be very lucky to get 1/4 of Paul's supporters to vote for him. The Barr campaign release also attacks non-voters.

This is really amazing. The same campaign that was willing to praise Jesse Helms, Al Gore and now George Bush, a campaign that has flip-flopped on global warming, gay marriage, the drug war and other issues, is now attacking the most popular libertarian activist movement in modern history, and attacking Ron Paul the person for caring more about himself than spreading the message of freedom – perhaps the most bizarre accusation one could make.

When Barr first got the nomination, I predicted he would not break 700,000 votes, despite hysterically optimistic estimates of millions of votes. Now, I would be somewhat surprised if he got more votes than Michael Badnarik.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/022812.html

revolt426

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2008, 11:27:09 pm »
haha he threw his base out the window. Maybe its a set up

Offline creat3d

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2008, 11:27:38 pm »
I hadn't heard about Bob Barr until last week, when I saw an interview of him on YouTube from Al-Jazeera:
Riz Khan - Libertarian candidate Bob Barr - 3 Sep 08

Wasn't really impressed, but certainly didn't expect him to be such an hypocrite. Thanks for showing your true colors this week, Barr!

I'm not sure why it's even an issue he paid for his wife's abortion (who cares?), but why in the world is he defending the child molester?
On a related note, the founder of DRAGONCON is accused of child molestation? Well, I never!
A convention of furries and people who "cosplay" and dress up as video game characters (imagine a 40-year old man dressed like a japanese schoolgirl)... no way! He can't be guilty!!?!

revolt426

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2008, 11:37:53 pm »
He looks like a late 19th century Robber Baron

EvadingGrid

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2008, 09:22:30 am »
He looks like a late 19th century Robber Baron

ROFL

Offline John Gault

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2008, 09:33:35 am »
LIBERTARIAN PARTY IS DEAD!! :'(

The Libertarian movement unfortunately has become more of a philosophy, then a true political party power. The so called intellectuals that publish brilliant literary works or who run libertarian institutes would rather have their cocktail parties in New York, D.C., and expound to one another how much smarter they are then the common man. The common man makes a party grow, they make it thrive to become a true power. What is truly upsetting is these libertarian philosophers would rather keep this movement solely in their hands and shut out the men and women that could make this a strong organization. Political infighting that has hampered the Libertarian Party for a very long time ensures this organization to be 3rd rate and will never win a major political office. This comes from a Libertarian, who has voted this way for a long time, but not this election.
I love my country, but I fear my government.

Dante: "Follow your own course, and let the people say what they will."

Offline Dig

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2008, 10:10:19 am »
LIBERTARIAN PARTY IS DEAD!! :'(

The Libertarian movement unfortunately has become more of a philosophy, then a true political party power. The so called intellectuals that publish brilliant literary works or who run libertarian institutes would rather have their cocktail parties in New York, D.C., and expound to one another how much smarter they are then the common man. The common man makes a party grow, they make it thrive to become a true power. What is truly upsetting is these libertarian philosophers would rather keep this movement solely in their hands and shut out the men and women that could make this a strong organization. Political infighting that has hampered the Libertarian Party for a very long time ensures this organization to be 3rd rate and will never win a major political office. This comes from a Libertarian, who has voted this way for a long time, but not this election.


I have to completely agree.  When an organization allows such an obvious agent to be their candidate of choice for a presidential election, they are done.  If they do not get him and the cronies the F out ASAP, there will be no resuccetating this dead duck party.

It is sad, but better to find out earlier than later.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline John Gault

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2008, 11:21:36 am »
I have to completely agree.  When an organization allows such an obvious agent to be their candidate of choice for a presidential election, they are done.  If they do not get him and the cronies the F out ASAP, there will be no resuccetating this dead duck party.

It is sad, but better to find out earlier than later.

Right on Sane!

Barr is the creation of some Libertarian MISPLACED activists. They panicked when Ron Paul (after lot of pleading) wouldn't take the nomination. They believed (wrongly), they needed a national name. Mary Ruwart or Wayne Allyn Root would have been a lot better choice then this neanderthal Barr. I disagree with some of the things Ruwart & Root believe, but at least I could support either of them. Until the Libertarian Party truly unifies all the true "libertarian thinking" people, they are a dead duck party. 
I love my country, but I fear my government.

Dante: "Follow your own course, and let the people say what they will."

Offline donnay

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2008, 02:49:30 pm »
Harry Browne is spinning in his grave!   :(
"Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
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Offline 1776blues

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2008, 10:46:01 pm »
I haven't heard or seen response by Alex on this, I listen to yesterday's live show. Did he go to NY?
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it

is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new

Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its

powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect the

Offline Freeski

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2008, 12:56:19 am »
Harry Browne is spinning in his grave!   :(

In synch will Orwell:

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=35800.0

See post 2 for link to video "Orwell Rolls in His Grave"
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline gEEk squad

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2008, 01:37:04 am »
It looks like Kurt Nimmo has been reading this thread (or has some common sense).

Bob Barr’s Campaign Manager Praises Bush and the Neocons

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
September 12, 2008

It should be obvious to all who pay attention — and sadly, not too many do — that the Bob Barr campaign is designed to rend what little cohesion and unity there is among third parties and candidates. It should be especially obvious after Russ Verney, Bob Barr’s campaign manager, gushed all over George Bush, telling us that Bush “showed incredible leadership as he stood atop a fire truck amidst the rubble of the twin towers to rally America,” that is to say rally America toward a unitary dictatorship.

How is it this guy runs Barr’s campaign? Barr is supposedly a Libertarian. As a Republican senator, he voted for the Patriot Act, asked the neocon Newt Gingrich to “design a World War II-style victory plan to save America’s children from illegal drugs,” and voted for the Iraq Resolution that has resulted thus far in over a million dead Iraqis.

Some Libertarian.
   
   
   

And then, under the steady hand of Varney, Barr snubbed Ron Paul’s third-party press conference and held his own press conference down the hall. According to David Franke, editor of Third Party Watch, Barr had some snide things to say about Dr. Paul and his effort.

It should be recalled that Bob Barr was not only a Republican on good terms with the neocons before he was assigned to sabotage the Libertarian effort, but from 1971 until 1978 he worked for the CIA.

As they say, you never stop working for the agency.

But even more stupendous is the fact the Libertarians let this guy become representative on the Libertarian National Committee, representing the Party’s Southeast Region, and then allowed him to become the 2008 Libertarian presidential nominee after six rounds of voting at the 2008 Libertarian convention.

Is it too much to say the CIA now owns the Libertarian Party? At minimum, how can the Libertarian candidate for the presidency have a campaign manager that gushes all over George W. Bush? How are the neocons and the phony baloney war on terrorism – the war on the Constitution – compatible with Libertarian principles? Go figure.

It really is amazing how effortlessly the Libertarians were duped and sold down the river. It was easy as finding a whore on Saturday night in Soho.

Maybe the Libertarians deserve to be relegated to a footnote after all.

revolt426

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2008, 01:41:51 am »
Yea we know he's a mole...... I am hoping Ron Paul is aware of this and if the canditates manage to get a debate, he endorses the right one after. When i first saw a picture of Barr i thought pedophile to be completely honest. But i assumed liberterians were good, wrong assumption. They've been infiltrated... i'm assuming Nader and McKinney are for real, Nader in particular. I'm for the most part, a conservative.. But people have to get past the political spectrum deal and vote for a guy who will 1) support 9-11 investigation 2) Address the Federal Reserve 3) Crack down on corperate criminals and uphold the Constitution and Civil liberties.... and Nader has just made this his platform. I could care less about the spectrum at this point, it's now about reviving the country, not left right ideoligy.

Offline Freeski

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2008, 01:47:47 am »
Yeah but don't paint the entire LIbertarian base as bad... they just got hoodwinked. Bye bye Barr, you tool, you moron, you traitor. Hope your children have a great prosperous life, regardless of the tyranny you've attempted to bestow upon them you slimeball.
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Volitzar

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2008, 02:26:30 am »
Quote

Chuck Baldwin information !!!

http://www.loudobbsradio.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=820


Chuck Baldwin's acceptance speech !!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5808710975074355086


Constitution Party Promotional Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_SobkISNrY&feature=related


The Baldwin Campaign has put some great videos up on their YouTube channel at

http://www.youtube.com/user/chuckbaldwin2008


http://www.baldwin08.com/

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com

http://www.wakeup-usa.com/


Click on your state and co-ordinate your efforts.
http://baldwin08.com/statesmap.cfm

http://www.baldwin2008tv.com


Chuck Baldwin on the Lou Dobbs Show !!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJZXQtKtHk

Libertarians vote for Chuck Baldwin a true Constitutional libertarian.

Offline 1776blues

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #75 on: September 13, 2008, 10:45:47 am »
In synch will Orwell:

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=35800.0

See post 2 for link to video "Orwell Rolls in His Grave"

This is an excellent documentary!
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it

is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new

Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its

powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect the

GoodBush

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Bob Barr Campaign Responds To Ron Paul Endorsement Of Chuck Baldwin
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2008, 12:41:19 am »
Bob Barr Campaign Responds To Ron Paul Endorsement Of Chuck Baldwin

September 22nd, 2008 11:43 pm  |  by Marc Gallagher

Bob Barr’s campaign manager answered a few questions from Reason Magazine regarding Ron Paul’s endorsement of Chuck Baldwin.

reason: What’s your reaction to Paul’s statement?

Verney: That’s what leadership is all about: Making decisions. On election day Bob Barr’s going to offer a mesage that appeals to Ron Paul’s voters, and we’re confident we’ll win them.

reason: Are you disappointed to lose Paul’s endorsement like this?

Verney: No, and this should have been a long time ago if Ron Paul wanted to help Chuck Baldwin. The time to do this was right at the Rally for the Republic, when there was focused attention on what Paul was doing, right in front of the doors of the Republican convention.

reason: Do you regret skipping Paul’s press conference and holding your own? That was clearly the impetus for Paul’s decision.

Verney: No, it wasn’t a mistake. We stand by our position. This is all about liberty, and liberty-minded voters need to know that concentrating their support in the Libertarian Party.

So the Barr campaing stands on principle, however inconvenient it is. This certainly calls into question whether Barr will receive enough votes to beat the record for a Libertarian presidential candidate.
http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/09/22/bob-barr-campaign-responds-to-ron-paul-endorsement-of-chuck-baldwin/2056/

End

Why wait 'til election day Bobby? I thought your Campaign just slammed Ron Paul for waiting to endorse Chuck Baldwin and now you're gonna be a hypocrite?

Tough luck winning votes back and enjoy your nwo trophy for temporarily ruining the LP.

Offline ronpaulunited

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2008, 11:40:28 am »
f**k Bob Barr, such a neocon.

I'm not a fan of either party, I'm an American and a partiot and thank god ron paul gets my vote.

Offline cynical20s

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2008, 02:31:18 pm »
I'm a Libertarian who's about an inch a way from being an Anarchist. I used to love the Libertarian platform, but I've noticed, ever since Barr got the nomination, that they really started pivoting on some of the most crucial points, i.e. the border. I guess that it was only a matter of time before they started tarnishing themselves... back in the day, if you wanted to join the LP, you had to send them 25 bucks for an entry-level membership. Now, you have to send them the money, and sign some crappy oath that says that you'll never resort to violence to achieve change.

But... if I don't vote for Barr, who the hell do I vote for? All the other 3rd party candidates are bad jokes; no offense guys! Baldwin is way too conservative for my tastes, and Nader has really good ideas, but is little more than a wasted vote...

Ultimately, Barr is the lesser of three evils. Obama is a socialist, Rockefeller puppet, and McCain is a Kissinger/Rothschild piece of trash.   

Offline Freeski

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Re: Bob Barr Exposed: Evidence of controlled opposition heading the LP
« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2008, 07:12:54 pm »
I'm a Libertarian who's about an inch a way from being an Anarchist. I used to love the Libertarian platform, but I've noticed, ever since Barr got the nomination, that they really started pivoting on some of the most crucial points, i.e. the border. I guess that it was only a matter of time before they started tarnishing themselves... back in the day, if you wanted to join the LP, you had to send them 25 bucks for an entry-level membership. Now, you have to send them the money, and sign some crappy oath that says that you'll never resort to violence to achieve change.

But... if I don't vote for Barr, who the hell do I vote for? All the other 3rd party candidates are bad jokes; no offense guys! Baldwin is way too conservative for my tastes, and Nader has really good ideas, but is little more than a wasted vote...

Ultimately, Barr is the lesser of three evils. Obama is a socialist, Rockefeller puppet, and McCain is a Kissinger/Rothschild piece of trash.   

I'm with you there, as an anarchist at heart I could accept a libertarian-style society but now that I see how corrupt the party system really is, I've given up on any and every party. What to do...
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.