Here's my encounter with a Popular Mechanics fan...
hopefully mr. masters will see this here and dig around a little more, swallow his pride and admit he's wrong diddly wrong.
I see you had a go at answering a tiny percentage of the questions posed, so here's your rebuttals.
If you did your "research", you would know that many of the experts that conspiricists quote have either been misquoted, or had their words taken out of context. If you use deception as a tactic to convince your readers, you must have a real strong argument.
Examples please... such as? What did this have to do with any of the questions posed? Who is trying to confuse the reader here? anyway, ignoring the trivial messageboard nonsense;
What does Popular Mechanics know? I'll concede this point, as it doesn't really matter what a bunch of editors think. The opinions that do matter are those of the 70+ professional aviation, engineering, and military experts they consulted. And I am well-versed in the laws of motion, I happen to have a Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering. I am by no means an expert, but I've studied enough to know that many of these theories are complete horseshit like the melting steel/jet fuel argument. I've taken the time to clarify/disprove some of "facts" cillibang has presented.
I like the way you put "facts" in the "" - Anytime anyone wants to make something look silly they resort to the inverted commas. man oh man... congratulations on you happening to have a masters by the way, I have a willing, intuitive mind, the ability to learn, and a few years of research under my belt. Let's quit swinging our dicks & rubbing up our own egos now and get to the point shall we?
That Popular Mech article has been debunked to the moon and back... Evertime I encounter a debunker all they can spout is the PM article or what they've seen on the TV. Not even going to bother wasting my time on that. Here's a good rebuttal to that article, if you dare read it: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php/topic,5795.0.html
If you want impressive numbers though, which you seem to like,
Try 660+ architects and engineers, 3600 other supporters of varying disciplines surrounding architecture and engineering at (ae911truth.org)
Try read some peer reviewed papers at http://www.springerlink.com/content/f67q6272583h86n4/
- 660+ Engineers and Architects, 160+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals, 350+ Professors, 230+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members, 150+ Military and Gov't officials, add on to that the hundreds of international diplomats and gov't officials who agree it didn't happen as we were told (I refuse to use the term inside job, it's too easy and gives a distorted image, it was a multi-national job with assistance from inside the CIA / DoD)
Plans were approved in 1998 to privatize the World Trade Center, which consisted of seven buildings total, in order to raise money to fund other Port Authority projects. The Port Authority ultimately approved the lease of the buildings to a joint partnership between Silverstein Properties and The Westfield Group for 99 years on April 26, 2001. The deal went through on July 21, 2001.
Imagine how big this conspiracy is and how many people are involved if it started back in 1998. George W. Bush must have started planning this while he was governor of Texas, right? The fact is this point doesn’t even matter. Private or government owned, there were insurance policies taken out on all the properties. Whoever the owner was would simply collect a big check anyway. The first step in presenting a conspiracy is to discuss relevant topics/events. So far you’ve failed even that.
Irrelevant? Go away and read some more on Mr. Silverstein, then come back and tell me it is still irrelevant. Bet you don't. If we must talk failure, then you've failed to read enough on that to know what you're talking about. sorry. And no one has implied GWB planned it. Stop implanting fabrications into your responses.
I’m not familiar with this argument. It’s no surprise that a source isn’t listed. Nonetheless I will attempt to clarify this misinformation starting with established facts. Steel melts at 2750°F, jet fuel between 800° and 1500°F. The steel, however, didn’t need to melt in order for the towers to collapse, it only had to weaken to a point where it could no longer support the weight on top of it. A basic property of metals (and materials altogether) is that heat reduces its yield strength, which is the maximum force it can withstand before permanent deformation occurs. Steel at 1100°F, for example, is only half as strong as steel at room temperature. NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) concluded that temperatures reached over 1800°F in some areas due to the burning of office materials and furniture in addition to the jet fuel. What happened as a result? The structure of the towers could no longer support the weight of the floors above, thus causing the buildings to buckle and come crashing down, WITHOUT the use of explosives.
Haha! popular mechanics as a source article. classic. I clearly stated NASA as the source for the info, did you miss that bit? Go look for it if you don't believe me - your masters did involve learning how to use google, right?
Anyway, your numbers on temperatures are all pretty much spot on without being pedantic, and yes the heat may well have weakened steel (read the PM rebuttal link above for detailed info on the BTU's contained within the amount of kerosene on the 2 planes and how much steel it could affect), but it wasn't hot enough to fry the office workers stuck inside calling family members and the FDNY to get help now was it? It was an oxygen starved fire, dark smoke indicates low burning temp due to lack of oxygen.
So, the towers stood for a little over 2 hours as they burned, over the space of about 5 or so floors at each tower. In those couple of hours, these oxygen starved office fires (most of the kerosene went up in the initial fireball after impact, there was no concentrated burn spot like in a furnace for example) spread the heat Allllllll the way down to sub-basement levels and weakened the entire structure causing it to come down at freefall speed, through the path of most resistance, not twice, but three times in a day if you include WTC7 that wasn't hit by any aircraft. NIST finally admitted that WTC7 came down at freefall recently, you'll probably know that already though, right?
Also what about numerous reports, seismic data and visible evidence of explosions in the basement levels even before AA11 even hit? Just another coincidence I suppose.
So putting all that aside, say for a minute we'll go with your incredible weakened pancake theory, how does that idea account for MOLTEN IRON in the WTC sub-basement levels up to 8 WEEKS AFTER 9/11. How? Come on. Does weakened steel suddenly melt itself? This is more stuff ommitted from the 9/11 commission report.
Anyhow.. I worded my question poorly just case it was that which confused you.
Remember the Columbia Space Shuttle Disaster? How’d they recover human remains from the astronauts? You would think they would have burned up during re-entry miles above the earth, but they didn’t. A fireball won’t destroy everything, neither will a building collapse. Think of all the office papers you saw raining down in the streets after the planes struck the towers. How’d they not burn up in the fire? With that being said, some things were never recovered, like the remains of some of the victims.
I'm talking about a passport, no, wait, 4 passports, no, wait, 5 passports!!. 2 found at both WTC, 1 at shanksville and 2 at the Pentagon. 5! This must be a coincidence too. It's about as believable that this happened as the magic bullet theory is to the JFK case. Besides, All those sheets of paper weren't inside aircraft, they were blown outward by pressure from an explosion.
Logic would have you think that the Atta passport would have travelled in the trajectory of the aircraft strike, but no it was found on Vesey St. BEHIND the WTC, in the opposite direction... and the Suqami passport was found in two different locations!! How about that?! I'm sure you'll have a masters in coincidence sorcery to disprove that though. 5 passports uncharred. you could blow up 5 challenger rockets and not get that level of consistent results. And besides, passports aren't needed for internal flights in the US, but that's not that important.
I don‘t know what you’re trying to accomplish other than scare the readers who don’t realize this is completely irrelevant to the “conspiracy”. The anthrax attacks were committed by Dr. Bruce Ivins, a microbiologist at the Army’s biological research laboratory at Fort Detrick, Maryland. Unfortunately he committed suicide as prosecutors were set to present their case to a grand jury implicating him in the attacks. Once again, this is completely unrelated and is simply domestic terrorism with no connection to 9/11. If staff members were given Cipro at the time stated, it is merely a coincidence and cannot be concluded that the US government participated in sending letters to THEIR OWN SENATE LEADERS! Take a second and actually think about that and you’ll see the idiocy of the above claim.
Haha! ANOTHER coincidence!!! No connection to 9/11? Unrelated? Idiocy? Again, you've failed to do good research here. Which website are you copying and pasting from by the way?
The anthrax attacks and 9/11 were part of the same sequence of events. The letters themselves were dated 9/11/01 clearly indicating a link with the attacks. The letters were faked, and sent by imiginary muslim fundamentalists, and as you say was discovered to be the ames strain only from Ft. Detrick.
The strain came from a US military base, and was set up as a false flag to coincide with the 9/11 attacks, this is proven by the letters themselves. There was foreknowledge of the anthrax, just as there was foreknowledge about the 9/11 attacks. So, unrelated huh? Ivins was the perfect patsy as he was already dead! He didn't even have clearance for level 4 security at Detrick. Do some research. Look up Lt. Col. Philip Zack.
I don't feel any idiocy burning through me right now either, just for the record, but you may when you do some real digging on this.
It wasn’t immediately destroyed, it was sent to Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island in New York to be analyzed piece by piece by police officers and FBI agents. Reporters were even allowed to visit and film what was going on. Fortunately there is not a lot of experience in aircraft flying into buildings to bring them down. As a result of this inexperience, it takes time to determine the cause of failure by meticulously reviewing all of the facts and evidence collected.
Wrong, about a quarter of it was shipped to statten island, and was it analyzed piece by piece by the FBI and Police? Nope, not thoroughly analyzed at all, 185,000 tons of it was put to scrap without examination, or so US congress were told, then it was sold off to chinese and indian steel merchants for $120 a ton. Some of it was turned into a shiny new warship. Many first responders 'weren't authorized' and were turned away, only closely monitored, selected companies and gov't officials were allowed access to the clean-up operation.
They couldn't get rid of the evidence quick enough, dismissing it as useless because computer models do all the work these days according to Bloomberg et al, models that FEMA and NIST amongst other channels went to town with and hilariously contradicted each other. FEMA's BPAT who wrote the WTC report had no access to ground zero or to collect any of the samples according to appendix D of the FEMA WTC report.
The 150-odd pieces of steel that were saved for future use have been stored in a hangar at JFK, with no access to the public for research / investigation.
Would you rather have an investigation that was complete and thorough or rushed and half-assed? If an investigation report was already mandated by law, it’s not a question as to whether or not there was going to be a report. At this point it’s best to do it right the first time.
What?! You misnterpreted the question. Bush and Cheney did not want an investigation, full stop. They did everything in their power to stop it. Don't believe me? Watch the film 9/11 press for truth, and then come back and talk to me about who cares about the victim's families. Cos it weren't the Bush admin that's for sure. If it wasn't for the Jersey Girls and 9/11 truth families, there would never have been a commission, you don't need a masters degree to find that out.
Guess how much was spent on investigating the Clinton / Lewinski scandal? $40m
And the 9/11 Commission? $14m.
Terrorists don't have to act with the support of a country. What country helped Timothy McVeigh blow up the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma? None. Afghanistan’s government, the Taliban, refused to give up Osama Bin Laden. Our intelligence indicated that he was in the country so we were prepared to use force to go get him. It’s that simple. Iraq is an unrelated issue, don’t try to make connections that aren’t there. Haven’t you learned anything from George W’s WMD claims? It makes you look like an ass.
And yes we agree on one thing! W's WMD claims. BS. Same as Saddam was harboring al-qaeda. oh yeah. Also see my post above about OBL, feel free to call Rex Tomb at the FBI and ask him about it.
Anyhow, I never related Iraq to 9/11, the US gov't did that for you. W also spoke with tony Blair about painting up a US spy plane in UN colours and flying it over Iraq in the hope Saddam would shoot it down, so they would have a reason to pre-empt. False Flag? Yup. They did all the relating there my friend with a masters.
Feel free to use google to find out anything I've said here. it all exists, and it'll all be available on mainstream sites.