GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE

[Jackson Holly]

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biCXQHexflY&feature=related

OK guys ... time to waste a bunch of stock ... burn a few outdated missiles, tanks, ships, planes ... and blow away a few stupid cattle for FUN !!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha !!

THEN ... create mega-billions "re-arming" and "re-building" !!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!

See ya in DUBAI!  Ha ha ha ha ha!!!

LITTLE BOYS MAKE NOISE

Little boys make
noise with toys,
which annoys little girls
who swirl and twirl
their curls and twinkle
and sparkle
and dance and prance
in fancy pants.

Schoolyard chases,
shoelaces loose
and flying, untying.
Foot races to bases
jumping, bumping,
singing and swinging.

Little ones
have megatons
of fun with guns.
Invading hordes
with swords,
lords of Neverland.
Peter Pan
reveals his hand,
he is a man.
A strange thing,
a changeling,
fire-breathing,
Prince Charming,
a frog, a dragon, a snake.

Wendy Alice
in her palace
sleeps and dreams,
and screams.
Tinkerbell from Hell,
a yellow brick road,
a toad, an ugly
stepsister - a visitor
the beast appears,
to soothe her fears,
kisses sleeping beauty.

With the Religion
of Television,
the hidden monsters
mesmerize, mummify
the living dead.

The stalking Pied Piper,
shape-shifting viper
seduces, abuses
rapes the soul
of the children.
The vile vampire sucks
the blood money -
masonic, moronic, satanic.

The black magician
politician says,
“Sacrifice your first-born,
your only begotten son.
Light the fires,
stir the cauldron,
fill the coffers
and the coffins.”

Our Mother is dying,
she is crying,
vermin are violating her,
stripping and burning
and sucking her juices dry.
Our Mother is fevered,
her lungs palsied,
her blood poisoned,
she must purge
the evil parasites,
she must rest.

~~~ O ~~~

[ConcordeWarrior]

President Mikhail Saakashvili says he signed the document together with French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and his Finnish counterpart, Alexander Stubb.
...
In Tbilisi, President Mikhail Saakashvili signed a cease-fire pledge Monday proposed by French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and his Finnish counterpart, Alexander Stubb. The EU envoys plan to travel from Tbilisi to Moscow later Monday to try to persuade Russia to accept the cease-fire.
...
"This a misfortune, this is impossible to support," Kouchner said after touring Gori. "That's why we not only have to denounce this, but we have to work to stop the fight."

Kouchner is a clown. We saw him with his sacks of rice in Somalia and then as the caretaker of Kosovo. He accomplished nothing.

Tomorrow will be chief clown Sarkozy's turn to go to Tbilisi to meet Mikheïl Saakachvili just as if he will be able to get anything accomplished.

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080811/tfr-georgie-russie-ossetie-conflit-osce-f56f567.html

It is no wonder they aren't going to the Kremlin instead.

[oyk152]

That's how you look after you get attacked by Russian troops.What may he think now how stupid i was to listen to bush and cheney.why did i do this and what am i doing now because the Russians will kill me now

That is President Mikhail Saakashvili after he signed the document


By oyk152 at 2008-08-11

[Cywar]

THE ART OF SPINNING FOR WAR (1of2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hoefz93wco4

[libertad]

McCain on CNN right now requesting a cease fire. Russia is evil etc.

[larsonstdoc]

   McCain is insane!!!

[Optimus]

Russian troops seize military base in Georgia
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hV2N6fVKS5slf10A13Dj_uIdaZ4QD92G4L382
13 minutes ago

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Georgia's Defense Ministry says Russian armored vehicles seized a military base in western Georgia near a second breakaway province.

The ministry's spokeswoman, Nana Intskerveli, says Russian armored vehicles on Monday rolled into a Georgia military base in the town of Senaki, about 20 miles inland from the Black Sea port of Poti. The statement appears to indicate that Russian troops have invaded into Georgia proper from the separatist province of Abkhazia while most of the Georgian military forces are locked up in fighting around another breakaway region of South Ossetia.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Swarms of Russian jets launched new raids on Georgian territory Monday and Georgia faced the threat of a second front of fighting as Russia demanded that Georgia disarm troops near the breakaway province of Abkhazia.

While a senior Russian general insisted that Russia has no plans to press further into Georgian territory — its troops are now in two breakaway provinces — the order to disarm carried the threat that Russian-sponsored fighting would spread.

The new air forays into Georgia — even as Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili on signed a cease-fire pledge — appeared to show Russian determination to subdue the small, U.S.-backed country, which has been pressing for NATO membership. Russia fended off a wave of international calls to observe Georgia's pleas for a truce, saying it must first be assured of Georgia's retreat from South Ossetia.

The United States is campaigning to get Russia to halt its retaliation and American officials have accused Russia of using the fighting to try to overthrow the Georgian government. President Bush, who has encouraged Georgia's efforts to join NATO, said he spoke with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the Russian president.

"I've expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response of Russia and that we strongly condemn the bombing outside of South Ossetia," Bush said in an interview with NBC Sports.

In turn, Putin criticized the United States for airlifting Georgian troops back home from Iraq on Sunday at Georgia's request.

"It's a pity that some of our partners instead of helping are in fact trying to get in the way," Putin said at a Cabinet meeting. "I mean among other things the United States airlifting Georgia's military contingent from Iraq effectively into the conflict zone."

A two-front battlefield would be a major escalation in the conflict, which blew up Friday after a Georgian offensive to regain control of separatist South Ossetia.

Most Georgian troops are near South Ossetia, in the center of the country along its northern border with Russia, which would make it difficult for Georgia to repel an offensive from Abkhazia, in the west along the Black Sea.

International envoys flew into the region late Sunday and the U.N. Security Council met for the fourth time in as many days to try to end the conflict before it spreads throughout the volatile Caucasus.

In Tbilisi, Saakashvili signed a cease-fire pledge Monday proposed by the French and Finnish foreign ministers. The EU envoys plan to travel from Tbilisi to Moscow later Monday to try to persuade Russia to accept it.

Saakashvili had ordered the halt Sunday after overwhelming Russian firepower blasted his troops out of the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali, but Russian officials said they saw no cease-fire on the ground.

In Moscow, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Russia has completed "a large part of efforts to force Georgian authorities to peace in South Ossetia," a statement that suggests Moscow could accept the proposed cease-fire.

Saakashvili, however, voiced concern that Russia's true goal was to undermine his pro-Western government. "It's all about the independence and democracy of Georgia," he said during a conference call.

At a U.N. Security Council meeting on Sunday, Russia's ambassador to the United Nationa, Vitaly Churkin, acknowledged there were occasions when elected leaders "become an obstacle."

Saakashvili said Russia has sent 20,000 troops and 500 tanks into Georgia — with some troops getting within three miles of Gori, located just outside South Ossetia, before being repulsed Sunday.

Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s.

Both separatist provinces have close ties with Moscow, while Georgia has deeply angered Russia by wanting to join NATO.

Georgia began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia overnight Friday with heavy shelling and air strikes that ravaged the city of Tskhinvali. The Russia response was swift and overpowering — thousands of troops that shelled the Georgians until they fled Tskhinvali on Sunday, and air attacks across Georgia, some on facilities far from the site of the fighting.

The Georgian president said Russian warplanes were bombing roads and bridges, destroying radar systems Monday and targeting Tbilisi's civilian airport Sunday night. One Russian bombing raid struck the Tbilisi airport area just a half-hour before the EU envoys arrived, he said.

Georgia said another hit Friday near the key Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, which carries Caspian crude to the West. No supply interruptions have been reported and Russia denies targeting the pipeline.

While not addressing reports of the incursion near Gori, Nogovitsyn, the Russian general, said Russia had no intention to move deeper into Georgia. "We aren't planning any offensive," he said.

Saakashvili later drove to the outskirts of Gori, a town where scores of people were killed in an Russian attack Saturday. He was joining French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, who had just completed a tour of the destroyed buildings.

As the Georgian president spoke to reporters next to his SUV, a member of his security team shouted "cover him!" Saakashvili was torn away by bodyguards and pushed to the ground. They piled extra flak jackets on top of him.

Fearing an air raid, onlookers fled, looking skyward and screaming. No jets were seen or heard.

Kouchner had left seconds before the panic.

"This a misfortune, this is impossible to support," Kouchner said after touring Gori. "That's why we not only have to denounce this, but we have to work to stop the fight."

Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said more than 2,000 people had been killed in South Ossetia since Friday, most of them Ossetians with Russian passports. The figures could not be independently confirmed, but refugees who fled the city said hundreds were killed.

Thousands of civilians have fled South Ossetia — many seeking shelter in the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia.

"The Georgians burned all of our homes," said one elderly woman, as she sat on a bench under a tree with three other white-haired survivors of the fighting. "The Georgians say it is their land. Where is our land, then?"

Nogovitsyn said on Russian television Monday that Russia demanded Georgia disarm police in Zugdidi, a town just outside Abkhazia, but did not say what would happen if they do not.

Abkhazia's Russian-supported separatist government called out the army and reservists on Sunday and declared it would push Georgian forces out of the northern part of the Kodori Gorge, the only area of Abkhazia still under Georgian control.

A Russian commander said 9,000 additional Russian troops and 350 armored vehicles had arrived in Abkhazia.

Nogovitsyn also said Russian ships deployed to Georgia's Black Sea coast sank one of four Georgian patrol boats that came close Sunday — a report rejected by Georgian Coast Guard chief David Golua.

In New York, the U.N. Security Council met for the fourth time Sunday in four days to discuss the crisis. U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad accused Moscow of seeking "regime change" in Georgia and resisting attempts to make peace.

[libertad]

McCain:

It's clear Russia has violated international law. They should withdraw troops immediately.

Russia is just intimidating their neighbors because they have adopted Western values.

 

[Optimus]

Putin blasts USA for Georgian troops airlift as ceasefire talks continue
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2008/08/11/putin-blasts-usa-for-georgian-troops-airlift-as-ceasefire-talks-continue-86908-20693470/
Aug 11 2008 By DailyRecord.co.uk

RUSSIAN Prime Minister Vladimir Putin hit back over the ongoing crisis in South Ossetia today after he accused the US of airlifting Georgia's troops stationed in Iraq back home.

Georgia's president Mikhail Saakashvili said today he had signed a ceasefire pledge with EU mediators from France and Finland, who will travel to Moscow later today to try and persuade Russia to accept it.

But the conflict showed no sign of abaiting as both sides levelled new accusations of attacks at the other.  Georgia claimed Russian bombers had attacked targets around Tbilisi and Gori among other sites inside its borders, while Russia claimed Georgian attacks had killed three of its troops.

Putin blasted the US for getting involved by airlifting troops back Georgia from Iraq, after the Americans began flying 2000 Georgian troops back home from the Middle East.

"It's a pity that some of our partners, instead of helping, are in fact trying to get in the way," he told a cabinet meeting.

[Triadtropz]

mccains just making himself look more irrelevant...who cares what he say?...

[The_lizard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfA5XfxQOPw

[The_lizard]

I'd like to bitchslap Saakashvili, look at this ass kissing coward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWlQ_fzECl4

[Triadtropz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfA5XfxQOPw

the sleeping bear speaks..he isnt sleeping anymore..

[gabba2k7]

ROFL  ROFL  ROFL

The president of Georgia Michael Saakashvili run away from journalists

It happens in a city Gory. Saakashvili was answering questions of journalists, but, has looked in the sky, has become nervous, and told in english "we Leave from here!" And it is unexpected for everything, including, apparently, and for its bodyguard, has run away.

What Michael Saakashvili was frightened of  -  remains a riddle. Different vesions - whether the Supreme commander in chief the Georgian armies had seen  aircraft, whether has heard a cannonade of his own tools.
(my translation)

[bigron]

Monday, August 11, 2008
17:45 Mecca time, 14:45 GMT    
News Europe

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/200881111186628558.html


 
Saakashvili says 'no surrender'  
 
 
 
Mikheil Saakashvili, Georgia's president, has said that the manner in which Russian troops mobilised in South Ossetia over recent days clearly indicated that it was a pre-meditated operation.

 

He said: "It is obvious... the Russian invasion had been planned for months and months and months. The timing of this intervention has been chosen deliberately [with regards] to the Olympics."

 

Appealing to the international community to step in to resolve hostilities, he said: "The world has a moral duty to stop the madness."

 

"It is so clear what has happened. We are in the process of invasion, occupation and annihilation of a democratic, independent country.

 

"Please wake up everybody and make your position and speak with a united voice... We are seeing the cold-blooded, pre-meditated, murder of a small country."

 

Saakashvili made the comments at a news conference in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, on Monday.

 

Asked by a journalist if Georgia had any plans to surrender, he said: "There will be no surrender".

 

The president's remarks came as Russia's Interfax news agency said Georgian forces were continuing to shell Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital, early on Monday, killing three Russian peacekeepers and wounding 18 others.

 

Cease-fire rejected

A cease-fire proposed by European Union envoys was signed in Tbilisi by Saakashvili on Monday morning, but Russia immediately rejected the document.

A Kremlin spokesman said: "According to information from peacekeepers in South Ossetia, Georgia continues to use military force and in this regard we cannot consider this document,"

 

The document called for medical access to victims, a controlled withdrawal of troops on both sides and eventual political talks.

 

Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin, Russia's prime minister, said on Monday that the West had mistaken the real aggressors for the victims.

In a speech to senior government officials, Putin said some United States politicians still had a Cold War mentality.

"It is a shame that some of our partners are not helping us but, essentially, are hindering us," Putin said.

"I mean... the transfer by the United States of a Georgian contingent in Iraq with military transport planes practically to the conflict zone."

On Monday, the US military confirmed they had begun flying 2,000 Georgian troops home from Iraq after Georgia recalled them.

"The very scale of this cynicism is astonishing," said Putin.

"The attempt to turn white into black, black into white and to adeptly portray victims of aggression as aggressors and place the responsibility for the consequences of the aggression on the victims."

Casualties

Earlier on Monday, Georgia's president said his country's existence was threatened by what he said was a Russian military onslaught centred on the breakaway region of South Ossetia but also including bombardments across Georgia.

 

At the weekend, Russian tanks attempted to advance in the direction of the town of Gori outside South Ossetia, but were turned back by Georgian forces.

 

Moscow officials have said that 2,000 people have been killed among the South Ossetian population, but Human Rights Watch (HRW), a New York-based rights group, said that appeared to be an exaggeration.

 

HRW also questioned Russia's claim that the conflict had resulted in 24,000 refugees, saying that refugees who had crossed the border multiple times may have been registered more than once.

 

Thousands of refugees have been housed in hostels in and around Vladikavkaz, the capital of North Ossetia, with others being sent to the cities of Nalchik, Krasnodar and Rostov in southern Russia.

 

"There are fears of propaganda and of disinformation. It's difficult to form an objective picture," said Tanya Lokshina, a HRW researcher.

 

 
Russia says more than 2,000 people have been killed in South Ossetia .




Abkhazia warning


On Sunday, Russia claimed to have sunk a Georgian boat that was purportedly trying to attack Russian vessels in the Black Sea.

Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, Russia's deputy chief of general staff, warned that "if air space is violated as well, we will be forced to respond appropriately and to destroy those who enter the safety zone," in the Black Sea off the Abkhazian coast.

He also said Russia had no intention of moving deeper into Georgian territory.

"The 1992 treaty, signed by the Georgian side, clearly defines the boundaries of the Russian peacekeeping contingent's responsibility. No tasks to enter Georgia have been assigned to the peacekeeping contingent."

 

In 1992, South Ossetia broke away from Georgian control, and there has been a Russian peacekeeping contingent there ever since.

The Russian warning has drawn Georgian fears that Russia may open a second front in the conflict.

Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union.

Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s.

The two provinces have close ties with Moscow, while Georgia has deeply angered Russia by wanting to join Nato.
 
 Source: Al Jazeera and agencies  
 
  
 
 
 

[ConcordeWarrior]

ROFL  ROFL  ROFL

The president of Georgia Michael Saakashvili run away from journalists

It happens in a city Gory. Saakashvili was answering questions of journalists, but, has looked in the sky, has become nervous, and told in english "we Leave from here!" And it is unexpected for everything, including, apparently, and for its bodyguard, has run away.

What Michael Saakashvili was frightened of  -  remains a riddle. Different vesions - whether the Supreme commander in chief the Georgian armies had seen  aircraft, whether has heard a cannonade of his own tools.
(my translation)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7554417.stm

Is this it? 

[gabba2k7]

McCain:

It's clear Russia has violated international law. They should withdraw troops immediately.

Russia is just intimidating their neighbors because they have adopted Western values.

Mmm... he does not say nothing about west democratic bombardment of Tshinval? or hundreds of evil separatists-terrorists in S.Osetia?

[k4l4sh]

World War 3 Is Upon Us. "Operation Brimstone" US Naval Nuclear Strike Force Has Been Deployed to Iran


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biCXQHexflY&feature=related

I love how Bush Senior's eyes twinkle and his mouth betrays joy when he utters those words. And was it not 1990? I've noticed this before, I couldn't find any speech Bush made on Sept 11 1991. Anyway, that's just a detail, it just annoys me. I still remember seeing that on TV. scary (getting old, too lol).

And the Abkhazia region is going to explode tonight is my prediction. The Russians will "disarm" them if Georgian troops refuse to leave the area. And there are 8000-10000 Georgian troops there (according to RT).

And did you see those images of the Georgian president running for cover? I lolled  

[gabba2k7]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7554417.stm

Is this it? 

i have slow internet - but I think thats it ))))

PS: I wand to give him Oskar, and some several journalist awards best newsmaker ....As i said... what will west press do without him? how will they invent news-topics? cauze CNN can do news without Michael

[gabba2k7]

Day 1 -- Surprise attack civilians who only have small arms, while you use tanks, rocket launchers, APV's, and Airstrikes
Day 2 -- Declare War on a vastly superior enemy, knowing you have no chance to survive, then declare martial law.
Day 3 -- Start begging on International TV, in English to save your facist country, which just happened to the conflict.
Day 4 -- Appeal to the U.N., to which you are not a member, to start a war against one of its own members.
Day 5 -- ....loading, please wait....

+
day 0 - saakashvilly said he will not attack, he wants peace, he is looking for peacefull means of problem solving
than night (day 1) - tshinval bombardment
than interview for West Prest and Georgian TV: that michael is counter-attacked russian invaders
than interview of michael ON ENGLISH language to HIS GEORGIAN nation

[Godsforce]

Looks like U.S. is fighting Mexico in 2014, here's Ghost Recon 2 game synopsis:

The award-winning original next-generation killer app returns with Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter® 2. The Ghosts are back!
It’s 2014, and the soldier of the future returns to encounter a new and more imminent threat along the recently completed wall on the U.S./Mexico border. The Ghosts are more powerful with an upgraded Integrated Warfighter System (IWS) but will have only 72 hours to assess the threat and stop the rebels from reaching US soil. With a border that’s 1,900 miles long and an enemy that doesn’t play by the rules, this is a job for the U.S. military’s most elite fighting unit. This is a job for the Ghosts.

In case you missed it Ghost Recon is the plot happening now:
Eastern Europe, 2008
The world teeters on the brink of war. Radical ultranationalists have seized power in Moscow - their goal, the reestablishment of the old Soviet empire. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan - one by onne the nearby independent republics slip back into the Russian orbit. Russian tanks sit in the Caucasus Mountains and the Baltic forests, poised to strike to the south and east. The world hold ots breath, and waits.
For one small group of elite soldiers, the war has already begun: U.S. Special Forces Group 5, First Battalion, D Company. Deployed on peacekeping duty to the Republic of Georgia in the Caucasus, this handful of Green Berets represents the very tip of the spear - the first line of defense. Equipped with the latest battlefield technology, and trained in the latest techniques of covert warfare, they strike - swiftly, silently, and invisibly.

and here's the followup game:

In the wake of the upheaval in Russia, a series of small brushfire wars erupt around the world. One of the deadliest is a resumption of hostilities between Ethiopia and Eritrea, which is spurred by a coup in Addis Ababa. Armed with Russian weaponry, the Ethiopian military, led by a man named Colonel Tesfaye Wolde, makes a successful grab for the Eritrean coastline. The Ethiopian offensive sends the Eritrean forces into hurried retreat. Shipping on the Red Sea is disrupted, and relief efforts in the interior come crashing to a halt. At the request of the Eritrean government, and in order to advert a humanitarian crisis, an international coalition is built in response.The Ghosts are the spearhead of this force. Their job is to lead the way for the multinational force and help push the invading troops back to their own border.

Here's the next game:

The year is 2010, and great changes are afoot in Cuba. Fidel Castro's heirs have been unable to keep the fire of his revolution burning, and a popular uprising has toppled the Communist regime. In its wake, a fragile hope for democracy emerges. The interim president Pedro Ebana, promises free elections, and requests international assistance to safeguard those election. For there are those in Cuba who do not want to see democratic regime, and they will do anything it takes - subversion, viloence, or open revolution - to make certain that Cuba's future is the one they create for it. From the midst of Chaos, the call goes out for the Ghosts. Their mission: to ensure the integrity of the Cuban elections by thwarting any attempts made to subvert them. And as a violent revolution funded with drug money brews in the western provinces, it becomes clear that might be the Ghosts' most dangerous mission yet.


Followed by this game:

Bogota, a few months after the Cuban events...
While the Cubans revel in their newfound democracy, the Colombian drug cartel that financed the failed revolution has moved on, and is readying a retaliatory blow against its own American-allied government. Powerful explosions rock the Colombian capital, including one that severely damages the American embassy. Hearing the Colombian government's cry for support, the U.S. sends in the Ghosts to deliver deadly justice to the Colombian cartel and end their ever-accelerating agenda of terror.

[oyk152]

Here an article about the Georgian President what he actualy thought attacking Ossetia,

War over South Ossetia
Was will Saakaschwili? What will Saakashvili?

. The Georgian motives in the war over South Ossetia are hard to understand.  Against the Russian forces is the country a chance. Eine  A solution to the conflicts in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Georgian sense - even before the start of the fighting unlikely - seems completely unrealistic. . But perhaps the Georgian president plans a dramatic yes, at first glance seems absurd. . Questions to Iris Kempe, director of the office of the Heinrich Boell Foundation in Tbilisi.

n-tv.de :  Mrs. Kempe, at the moment it looks then, as if the war Georgia to South Ossetia with an attack on the capital Tskhinvali südossetische started. Warum haben die Georgier diese Offensive gestartet? Why did the Georgians started this offensive?

Iris Kempe: : I think that is a question that is still not definitive answer.  I would be very careful to say that the Georgians have the war started.  There are different messages from all sides.

. Georgian President Saakashvili has told a German newspaper when he received the information that Russian armored vehicles were en route to South Ossetia, he had seen only one way, the convoy to stop: by artillery fire. Did Saakashvili may believe that the United States or the West would support it militarily?

 The argument of a possible intervention by western side came again and was also confirmed by Saakashvili in the debate. Diese Option hat Saakaschwili diskutiert. This option has Saakashvili discussed.  He has also comparisons with the Balkans.


Iris Kempe? But he could not seriously believe that the U.S. would intervene militarily?

 Not militarily but diplomatically. . Just as in the moment, Saakashvili was apparently more support.

? Did Saakashvili gamble may be too high? ? Are Abkhazia and South Ossetia to Georgia?

. That is one thing, in fact it could emerge, but I also think that this is not a subject of bilateral negotiations. . Another positive aspect is that now the EU and the OSCE on. The French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner as representatives of the French EU presidency and the Finnish OSCE chairman Alexander Stubb are credible intermediary, which also critically argue against Moscow.

. They said that Saakashvili had in mind the Balkans. . The Russians refer to South Ossetia with a view to Kosovo. ? Can the West South Ossetia deny what he has been granted to Kosovo?

. The argument is always raised. Aber die beiden Fälle sind nicht wirklich vergleichbar. But the two cases are not really comparable.

? What is the role of South Ossetia in the Georgian national consciousness?  Is it comparable to the relationship with the Serbian Kosovo?

. A little maybe.  The big difference is that South Ossetia Russia on political and economic influence on Georgia. Das ist das Hauptproblem. That is the main problem.  It is not just about the Georgian national pride, but also to direct political power.

? What is the goal of Georgians?


? President Saakashvili Georgia will lead to NATO - South Ossetia that he would give up? . The Georgian interests are accession to NATO and the European Union. . The Georgian NATO ambitions in April at the summit in Bucharest is mainly due to the conflicts over South Ossetia and Abkhazia rejected. . Georgia will now these conflicts as soon as possible to solve. . And that is unrealistic. . These are processes that need a long breath. . Quick can not solve these conflicts.

. The Americans have the Georgian accession to NATO plans.  Would the U.S. government a responsibility to the escalation of the conflict?

. You can of course complain that the U.S. desire of Georgia to join NATO support. But we must also stress that Georgia is an independent state, which is not only the Kremlin ask, as he is foreign-oriented.

? Is it conceivable that Saakashvili to enter the war has to get rid of South Ossetia?  . I admit, it sounds absurd, but it had a certain logic: Only without South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Georgia chances of NATO and EU membership. . Just like that Saakashvili can these two areas not give up - so it shall ensure that Georgia lost in battle. Ist so ein Szenario völlig abwegig? Is such a scenario completely insane?

. How absurd that sounds not at all. . It would still be conceivable that Georgia and Abkhazia in South Ossetia's independence and to dismiss the West security guarantees.In this case, the role of the West in this conflict once again completely rethink.



here the link to the original site

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.n-tv.de/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dn-tv.de%26hl%3Den

[Biggs]

on GLP someone is reporting that Russian forces have taken the town of Gori inside Georgia (the one where the Georgian PM ran for cover during a press conference)

but as yet no link so it could be a case of GLP bs, we shall find out soon enough I suppose.

BBC reports that Russian troops are advancing throgh Abkhazia and pressing into Georgia itself.

[Biggs]

no it is not bs, Russian troops have taken the town of Gori, oh dear, they had better pull back as soon as there is a ceasefire or this thing could drag on

Russians advance in west Georgia 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7554507.stm

 
Russian TV broadcast images of troops in Abkhazia
Russian troops have entered Georgia from the breakaway region of Abkhazia, as the conflict between the two neighbours appears to be broadening.

Moscow said it had launched a raid on the town of Senaki to stop Georgia from attacking Russian forces in South Ossetia, another breakaway region.

And Georgian officials say Russian troops have captured the town of Gori, in central Georgia.

As the fighting continued, foreign envoys were pressing for a ceasefire.

Violence erupted in South Ossetia late last week when Georgia launched an overnight assault on the territory.

 
Russia, which supports the province's bid for separation, then bombed targets throughout Georgia and moved troops into the region and into Abkhazia.

Russia confirmed for the first time on Monday it had advanced beyond the borders of Abkhazia, saying it had launched an operation in the town of Senaki.

A Defence official told the Interfax news agency the move was intended to prevent Georgian troops from shelling South Ossetia, and to stop them from regrouping.

Georgian officials also accused Russian troops of moving into the town of Zugdidi.

The Russians issued an ultimatum to Georgian forces to disarm or face attack, and proceeded to occupy government buildings there, the Georgians said.

And the South Ossetia conflict also appeared to have widened, with Georgia accusing Russia of capturing the town of Gori in central Georgia.

Georgian defence officials said their troops were pulling back to defend Tbilisi.

Local officials in South Ossetia's secessionist government accused Georgia of bombing targets in the capital, Tskhinvali, by helicopter.

On Monday EU envoys were attempting to broker an agreement between Tbilisi and Moscow.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili signed an EU-backed ceasefire, but the document was rejected by Moscow.

Leaders from both countries carried on a war of words, with Russia accusing Georgia of genocide, and President Saakashvili hitting back with claims of ethnic cleansing.

[libertad]

DEVELOPING @ 12:15PM: Russian forces have captured the Georgian city of Gori, located about 35 miles from the capital of Tbilisi.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,401243,00.html

[Capt. Obvious]

American Mercenary Captured By Russians

An American mercenary has been captured by Russian forces along with a number of Georgian soldiers according to a report from the Russian news website Izvestia, providing more evidence that the U.S. and NATO are covertly supporting the Georgian army in a proxy war with Russia.

According to the report, the mercenary is an African-American who is a NATO instructor and an ordinance specialist. He has now been transferred to the Russian base of Vladikavkaz.

The story also backs up previous reports of dead black Americans having been found in Tskhinvali, the capital city of South Ossetia.

U.S. soldiers recently conducted training programs where they instructed Georgian soldiers how to deal with unexploded ordinance as part of the Georgia Train and Equip Program.

Another report from the Russia daily Kommersant states that thousands of mercenaries from numerous different countries are fighting on the Georgian side and are being "commanded by the U.S. military instructors."

"The U.S. military instructors directly command and coordinate actions of mercenaries without being involved in actual fighting, the source specified. According to intelligence data, there are roughly 1,000 military instructors of the United States in Georgia," states the report.

"Task force of Russia has annihilated a few groups of mercenaries. Some of mercenaries have been captured, and investigators are working with them, the source said."

In a related development, Russia FSB has detained 10 Georgian intelligence service officers who were allegedly preparing terrorist attacks inside Russia.

"We have detained 10 agents of the Georgian special services who were spying on military facilities and preparing terrorist attacks, including on Russian territory," Alexander Bortnikov said at a meeting with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

Russia has today launched new forays into Georgia itself even after Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili signed a cease-fire pledge. Russia claims that Georgia has not honored the cease-fire and continues to attack Russian positions.

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/august2008/081108_american_mercenary.htm

From our very own Paul watson

[ConcordeWarrior]

i have slow internet - but I think thats it ))))

gabba2k7 I hope you can stay on line. We need your feedback. :-)

Look at Kouchner on the picture. He looks awfully mean. Like a mafioso guy.

Russia Confirms Troop Advance Farther Into Georgia Proper
August 11, 2008
By RFE/RL

Russia's Defense Ministry says its troops have advanced from the breakaway Georgian region of Abkhazia further into Georgia proper.

The Defense Ministry justified the operation in Senaki, which lies outside the so-called security zone along the de facto Abkhaz boundary, by a need to avert new attacks on the other breakaway region of South Ossetia.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Russia_Says_Operation_In_South_Ossetia_Winding_Down/1190082.html

Now I wonder, is this going to end soon or is it going to escalate into something larger. I'd like to have your comments on this point. Thank you.

[Sub-X]

EU-Russia relations in jeopardy as bombs hit Tbilisi
http://euobserver.com/9/26598
11 August 2008

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - The suspension of EU-Russia negotiations on a new bilateral pact, freezing talks on visa-free travel for Russian citizens and holding back EU humanitarian aid to Chechnya until Russia ends aggression in Georgia could be among ideas debated by EU foreign ministers in Brussels on Wednesday (13 August).

Once fighting dies down, the EU may also offer to send policemen - but not soldiers - to help keep the peace in Georgia's breakaway regions and speed up free trade and visa facilitation deals with Georgia and Ukraine, "to show that those countries are not part of a 'grey zone' for Russia to expand [into]," a senior EU diplomat told EUobserver.

The EU launched talks in July on a new pact to replace its old Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Russia and pays around €18 million a year in aid to help rebuild war-torn Chechnya. But Russia's incursion into Georgia last week threw EU-Russia relations into turmoil, in the gravest European security crisis since the 1999 Kosovo war.

In the early hours of Monday morning (11 August), Russian jets struck two targets within earshot of Tbilisi city centre and Russian tanks advanced toward Gori, 65 kilometres from the Georgian capital. The moves came despite a unilateral Georgian ceasefire on Sunday, with Moscow saying Georgian forces have violated the ceasefire announcement.

"According to our sources, Russia is going to launch a last attack on Georgia with the aim of regime change," the EU diplomatic contact said. "I'm afraid the Russians may storm Tbilisi soon. I hope the ministers [still] have something to discuss next week."

The French EU presidency has called the emergency EU foreign ministers session for 10:00 local time on Wednesday to respond to the situation, with EU ambassadors to meet in Brussels on Tuesday afternoon to prepare the agenda. No extraordinary meeting of EU leaders is foreseen for now, despite a call by Poland to hold an emergency summit.

French president Nicolas Sarkozy will travel "in the coming days" to Moscow to meet Russian president Dmitry Medvedev.

Meanwhile, French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner and Finnish foreign minister Alexander Stubb arrived in Georgia on Sunday night. The plane touched down at Tbilisi International Airport just a few hours after the airport was struck by Russian bombers.

"We must find the means for an immediate ceasefire, accepted by both sides," Mr Kouchner told AFP following talks with Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili. "We must move quickly, this is not a diplomatic exercise, it's an exercise of survival."

"We are now in the business of crisis management, we are now in the business to broker peace. We are not in the business of seeking who has done what, when, where and how," Mr Stubb said.

Bitter resentment

Russia says its actions are designed to protect Russian passport holders and peacekeepers in the Georgian breakaway republic of South Ossetia, in line with existing treaties. It has accused Georgia of "genocide" in shelling the South Ossetian town of Tskhinvali last week, during what it called Mr Saakashvili's "suicidal" bid to defeat the rebels.

But Georgia says the Russian-backed separatists provoked its attack on Tskhinvali, which Russia used as a pretext to attack the small NATO and EU-aspirant state. It says the Russian push is designed to reassert power in Russia's old sphere of influence and to cut off an emerging oil and gas corridor between Europe and the Caspian Sea.

The UN refugee centre estimates that 10,000 to 20,000 people have become internally displaced in Georgia, but news reports on the ground indicate the figure could be tens of thousands more. Casualty estimates range from a few hundred soldiers and civilians, to over 2,000 mostly civilian deaths, with at least two reporters killed.

EU and US leaders conducted intensive telephone diplomacy over the weekend, with the US president and the NATO secretary general both criticising Russia's "disproportionate" use of force. US practical help has so far been limited to helping airlift home 2,000 Georgian soldiers from Iraq, while the EU has earmarked €1 million for humanitarian aid.

"Over the past few years I lived in a democratic country, and I was happy. Now America and the European Union spit on us," a Georgian soldier told an IHT reporter on Sunday, as Georgian troops retreated from the South Ossetian front line.

[Cobra]

American Mercenary Captured By Russians

An American mercenary has been captured by Russian forces along with a number of Georgian soldiers according to a report from the Russian news website Izvestia, providing more evidence that the U.S. and NATO are covertly supporting the Georgian army in a proxy war with Russia.

According to the report, the mercenary is an African-American who is a NATO instructor and an ordinance specialist. He has now been transferred to the Russian base of Vladikavkaz.

The story also backs up previous reports of dead black Americans having been found in Tskhinvali, the capital city of South Ossetia.

U.S. soldiers recently conducted training programs where they instructed Georgian soldiers how to deal with unexploded ordinance as part of the Georgia Train and Equip Program.

Another report from the Russia daily Kommersant states that thousands of mercenaries from numerous different countries are fighting on the Georgian side and are being "commanded by the U.S. military instructors."

"The U.S. military instructors directly command and coordinate actions of mercenaries without being involved in actual fighting, the source specified. According to intelligence data, there are roughly 1,000 military instructors of the United States in Georgia," states the report.

"Task force of Russia has annihilated a few groups of mercenaries. Some of mercenaries have been captured, and investigators are working with them, the source said."

In a related development, Russia FSB has detained 10 Georgian intelligence service officers who were allegedly preparing terrorist attacks inside Russia.

"We have detained 10 agents of the Georgian special services who were spying on military facilities and preparing terrorist attacks, including on Russian territory," Alexander Bortnikov said at a meeting with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

Russia has today launched new forays into Georgia itself even after Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili signed a cease-fire pledge. Russia claims that Georgia has not honored the cease-fire and continues to attack Russian positions.

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/august2008/081108_american_mercenary.htm

From our very own Paul watson

Thousands of mercenaries? hahaha
The Russian press isn't adverse to propaganda either.

This will not end well. I think Putin now has miscalculated a bit. It looks like the Russians are forming policy now purely on emotions and not on reason.
If anything it'll make the US and the EU push even harder on Russia.

This is what Zbig wanted. Zbig will get his new cold war.

[GoodBush]

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwealth/georgia_pol99.jpg


Map google won't show you.


I think the war is gonna be Russia&Iran VS. NATO.

[Optimus]

Rome warns against 'anti-Russian' coalition in EU
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1218451636.61
11 August 2008, 15:35 CET

(ROME) - Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini on Monday warned against the formation of an "anti-Russian" coalition within the European Union over the conflict in South Ossetia.

"It would be negative for Europe if a sort of coalition against Russia develops, which could happen" if the EU calls an emergency European Council summit on the Ossetia conflict, Frattini said in an interview published by the daily La Stampa.

"We are close to (Russian Prime Minister Vladimir) Putin on that," Frattini added.

EU foreign ministers will hold a crisis meeting in Brussels on Wednesday to discuss the bloc's response to conflict in Georgia.

Poland has additionally requested an emergency summit of the EU Council gathering heads of government and state and the president of the European Commission.

Poland, the biggest of the former Soviet bloc nations in the European Union, has been a strong supporter of Georgia's ambitions to join the EU and NATO, and Tbilisi and Warsaw maintain close relations.

On Saturday, the presidents of Poland and the three Baltic states -- Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania -- issued a strongly worded joint statement calling on the EU and NATO to oppose Russia's "imperialist policy."

But Frattini warned: "Asking for (the emergency summit) means moving towards a condemnation of Russia, a position that would be negative for all of Europe."

He added: "It's important that the Europe of 27 not divide itself into factions and small groups. It should be a bridge between the United States and Russia if it wants to have a political role with any weight."

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who has friendly relations with Putin, wants to play a mediating role between the EU and Moscow.

Frattini said Moscow should "understand" that peacekeeping operations "currently entrusted exclusively to its military forces should be the subject of discussions with the international community."

He was cautious when asked whether Italy would take part in such a force in the region.

"If (French Foreign Minister Bernard) Kouchner, after his meetings in Tbilisi and Moscow, makes a proposal (in this direction) on Wednesday at the meeting of foreign ministers, and if it is accepted, we will consider it," he said.

"There are a lot of 'ifs,' and we would have to redeploy our forces, which are not unlimited," Frattini added.

Italian contingents are taking part in several peacekeeping missions around the world, notably in Afghanistan and Lebanon.

Frattini, who spoke by telephone with Kouchner at the weekend, said Rome and Paris had "very clear" positions.

[ConcordeWarrior]

Cheney Threatens Russia:

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=66235&sectionid=3510203

US Vice President Dick Cheney has threatened Russia after the country was forced to reply Georgia's attack on South Ossetia's region.

In a phone conversation with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili on Sunday, Cheney said Russia's military actions in Georgia 'must not go unanswered'.

Continuation of Russian attack 'would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States, as well as the broader international community,' Cheney's press secretary, Lee Ann McBride, quoted him as telling Saakashvili.

[Wanted]

Georgia Asks China for Help with Russia
http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-08-11-voa32.cfm


Georgia has asked China to use its influence to push for a resolution to a territorial flare-up with Russia. Georgian troops have pulled out of the breakaway province of South Ossetia after being overwhelmed by Russian forces. Daniel Schearf reports from Beijing.

Georgia's ambassador to China, Zaza Begashvili, met with China's foreign minister to seek support in the dispute with Russia.

Afterwards, Ambassador Begashvili held a briefing for a small group of foreign and Chinese journalists. 

Begashvili would not say how the Chinese responded to the call for help. But, flanked by several embassy staff and supporters wearing red arm bands that read "Stop Russia!" he said he hoped China, as a great power, would make the right conclusion.

He says he is sure that China recognizes Georgia's borders, that it is as an independent state, and that it is a member of the United Nations. He says he is sure that China, as a member of the U.N. Security Council, will express its opposition to this aggression against an independent state.

China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang issued a statement during the weekend saying the conflict should be resolved peacefully through dialogue.

The statement joined the United States and other countries in calling for an immediate cease-fire.

Fighting between Georgian and Russian troops erupted after Georgian soldiers entered the breakaway province of South Ossetia last week to try to re-take it. 

Russia counter-attacked, driving Georgian troops out and bombing another separatist province - Abkhazia.

U.S. President George Bush condemned Russia for what he called a "disproportionate" response and spreading the conflict outside South Ossetia.

Bush made the comments while in Beijing for the Summer Olympics and after meeting with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who was also in Beijing for the games.

The conflict has not prevented athletes from Georgia or Russia from competing in the Olympics. 

"Both national Olympic Committees, very much in the spirit of the games, continue with sport," said International Olympic Committee spokeswoman Giselle Davies.

Georgia is a U.S. ally and sent soldiers to Iraq in support of the U.S.-led invasion. The United States is airlifting those troops back to Georgia, sparking bitter criticism from Prime Minister Putin.

Moscow says more than 2,000 people have been killed in fighting this past week, but the figures have not been independently verified.

South Ossetia broke away from Georgia in the early 1990s and allied itself with Russia. 

[Optimus]

The Caucasus —Washington Risks nuclear war by miscalculation
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9790
by F. William Engdahl
 
Global Research, August 11, 2008 

 
The dramatic military attack by the military of the Republic of Georgia on South Ossetia in the last days has brought the world one major step closer to the ultimate horror of the Cold War era—a thermonuclear war between Russia and the United States—by miscalculation. What is playing out in the Caucasus is being reported in US media in an alarmingly misleading light, making Moscow appear the lone aggressor. The question is whether George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are encouraging the unstable Georgian President, Mikhail Saakashvili in order to force the next US President to back the NATO military agenda of the Bush Doctrine. This time Washington may have badly misjudged the possibilities, as it did in Iraq, but this time with possible nuclear consequences.

The underlying issue, as I stressed in my July 12  Global Research article entitled Georgia, Washington and Moscow: a Nuclear Geopolitical Poker Game , is the fact that since the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact in 1991 one after another former member as well as former states of the USSR have been coaxed and in many cases bribed with false promises by Washington into joining the counter organization, NATO.

Rather than initiate discussions after the 1991 dissolution of the Warsaw Pact about a systematic dissolution of NATO, Washington has systematically converted NATO into what can only be called the military vehicle of an American global imperial rule, linked by a network of military bases from Kosovo to Poland to Turkey to Iraq and Afghanistan. In 1999, former Warsaw Pact members Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic joined NATO. Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, and Slovakia followed suit in March 2004. Now Washington is putting immense pressure on the EU members of NATO, especially Germany and France, that they vote in December to admit Georgia and Ukraine.

The roots of the conflict

The specific conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia and Abkhazia has its roots in the following. First, the Southern Ossetes, who until 1990 formed an autonomous region of the Georgian Soviet republic, seek to unite in one state with their co-ethnics in North Ossetia, an autonomous republic of the Russian Soviet republic and now the Russian Federation. There is an historically grounded Ossete fear of violent Georgian nationalism and the experience of Georgian hatred of ethnic minorities under then Georgian leader Zviad Gamsakhurdia, which the Ossetes see again under Georgian President, Mikhel Saakashvili. Saakashvili was brought to power with US financing and US covert regime change activities in December 2003 in what was called the Rose Revolution. Now the thorns of that rose are causing blood to spill.

Abkhazia and South Ossetia—the first a traditional Black Sea resort area, the second an impoverished, sparsely populated region that borders Russia to the north—each has its own language, culture, history. When the Soviet Union collapsed, both regions sought to separate themselves from Georgia in bloody conflicts - South Ossetia in 1990-1, Abkhazia in 1992-4.

In December 1990 Georgia under Gamsakhurdia sent troops into South Ossetia after the region declared its own sovereignty. This Georgian move was defeated by Soviet Interior Ministry troops. Then Georgia declared abolition of the South Ossete autonomous region and its incorporation into Georgia proper. Both wars ended with cease-fires that were negotiated by Russia and policed by peacekeeping forces under the aegis of the recently established Commonwealth of Independent States. The situation hardened into "frozen conflicts," like that over Cyprus. By late 2005, Georgia signed an agreement that it would not use force, and the Abkhaz would allow the gradual return of 200,000-plus ethnic Georgians who had fled the violence. But the agreement collapsed in early 2006, when Saakashvili sent troops to retake the Kodori Valley in Abkhazia. Since then Saakashvili has been escalating preparations for military action.

Critical is Russia’s support for the Southern Ossetes. Russia is unwilling to see Georgia join NATO. In addition, the Ossetes are the oldest Russian allies in the Caucasus who have provided troops to the Russian army in many wars. Russia does not wish to abandon them and the Abkhaz, and fuel yet more ethnic unrest among their compatriots in the Russian North Caucasus. In a November 2006 referendum, 99 percent of South Ossetians voted for independence from Georgia, at a time when most of them had long held Russian passports. This enabled Russian President Medvedev to justify his military's counter-attack of Georgia on Friday as an effort to "protect the lives and dignity of Russian citizens, wherever they may be."

For Russia, Ossetia has been an important strategic base near the Turkish and Iranian frontiers since the days of the czars. Georgia is also an important transit country for oil being pumped from the Caspian Sea to the Turkish port of Ceyhan and a potential base for Washington efforts to encircle Tehran.

As far as the Georgians are concerned, South Ossetia and Abkhazia are simply part of their national territory, to be recovered at all costs. Promises by NATO leaders to bring Georgia into the alliance, and ostentatious declarations of support from Washington, have emboldened Saakashvili to launch his military offensive against the two provinces, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Saakashvili and likely, Dick Cheney’s office in Washington appear to have miscalculated very badly. Russia has made it clear that it has no intention of ceding its support for South Ossetia or Abkhazia.

Proxy War

In March this year as Washington went ahead to recognize the independence of Kosovo in former Yugoslavia, making Kosovo a de facto NATO-run territory against the will of the UN Security Council and especially against Russian protest, Putin responded with Russian Duma hearings on recognition of Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Transnistria, a pro-Russian breakaway republic in Moldova. Moscow argued that the West's logic on Kosovo should apply as well to these ethnic communities seeking to free themselves from the control of a hostile state. In mid-April, Mr. Putin held out the possibility of recognition for the breakaway republics. It was a geopolitical chess game in the strategic Caucasus for the highest stakes—the future of Russia itself.

Saakashvili called then-President Putin to demand he reverse the decision. He reminded Putin that the West had taken Georgia's side. This past April at the NATO summit in Bucharest, Romania, US President Bush proposed accepting Georgia into NATO’s "Action Plan for Membership," a precursor to NATO membership. To Washington’s surprise, ten NATO member states refused to support his plan, including Germany, France and Italy.

They argued that accepting the Georgians was problematic, because of the conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. They were in reality saying that they would not be willing to back Georgia as, under Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which mandates that an armed attack against any NATO member country must be considered an attack against them all and consequently requires use of collective armed force of all NATO members, it would mean that Europe could be faced with war against Russia over the tiny Caucasus Republic of Georgia, with its incalculable dictator, Saakashvili. That would mean the troubled Caucasus would be on a hair-trigger to detonate World War III.

Russia threatens Georgia, but Georgia threatens Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Russia looks like a crocodile to Georgia, but Georgia looks to Russia like the cats' paw of the West. Since Saakashvili took power in late 2003 the Pentagon has been in Georgia giving military aid and training. Not only are US military personnel active in Georgia today. According to an Israeli-intelligence source, DEBKAfile, in 2007, the Georgian President Saakashvili

"commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also have been giving instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel. These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday."

Debkafile reported further, "Moscow has repeatedly demanded that Jerusalem halt its military assistance to Georgia, finally threatening a crisis in bilateral relations. Israel responded by saying that the only assistance rendered Tbilisi was ‘defensive.’" The Israeli news source added that Israel’s interest in Georgia has to do as well with Caspian oil pipeline geopolitics. "Jerusalem has a strong interest in having Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean."

This means that the attack on South Ossetia is the first battle in a new proxy warfare between Anglo-American-Israeli led interests and Russia. The only question is whether Washington miscalculated the swiftness and intensity of the Russian response to the Georgian attacks of 8.8.08.

So far, each step in the Caucasus drama has put the conflict on a yet higher plane of danger. The next step will no longer be just about the Caucasus, or even Europe. In 1914 it was the "Guns of August" that initiated the Great War. This time the Guns of August 2008 could be the detonator of World War III and a nuclear holocaust of unspeakable horror.

Nuclear Primacy: the larger strategic danger

Most in the West are unaware how dangerous the conflict over two tiny provinces in a remote part of Eurasia has become. What is left out of most all media coverage is the strategic military security context of the Caucasus dispute.

Since the end of the Cold War in the beginning of the 1990’s NATO and most directly Washington have systematically pursued what military strategists call Nuclear Primacy. Put simply, if one of two opposing nuclear powers is able to first develop an operational anti-missile defense, even primitive, that can dramatically weaken a potential counter-strike by the opposing side’s nuclear arsenal, the side with missile defense has "won" the nuclear war.

As mad as this sounds, it has been explicit Pentagon policy through the last three Presidents from father Bush in 1990, to Clinton and most aggressively, George W. Bush. This is the issue where Russia has drawn a deep line in the sand, understandably so. The forceful US effort to push Georgia as well as Ukraine into NATO would present Russia with the spectre of NATO literally coming to its doorstep, a military threat that is aggressive in the extreme, and untenable for Russian national security.

This is what gives the seemingly obscure fight over two provinces the size of Luxemburg the potential to become the 1914 Sarajevo trigger to a new nuclear war by miscalculation. The trigger for such a war is not Georgia’s right to annex South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Rather, it is US insistence on pushing NATO and its missile defense right up to Russia’s door.

 

[Wanted]

Russians in Abkhazia issue ultimatum to Georgia
http://www.contracostatimes.com/crimeandcourts/ci_10163463


TBILISI, Georgia—Georgia says it has received a Russian ultimatum that it must disarm troops near the breakaway province of Abkhazia or face Russian forces moving into Georgian-controlled territory.

Georgian Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said Gen. Sergei Chaban in charge of Russian peacekeepers in Abkhazia conveyed the demand Monday through U.N. military observers in the area.

The Russian move would mark a major escalation in the Russian-Georgian conflict over another Georgian breakaway province of South Ossetia. With most Georgian troops concentrated in the east near South Ossetia, it could be hard for Georgia to repel a Russian offensive near Abkhazia, which lies further west on the Black Sea.

Both Abkhazia and South Ossetia have run their own affairs without international recognition after defeating Georgian troops in wars in the early 1990s. Russia has deployed peacekeepers there and granted most residents passports.

The tiny, U.S.-allied Georgia, which has angered Moscow by seeking to join NATO, has accused Russia of trying to annex the two regions.

Russia's NTV television showed Chaban conducting tense talks with Georgian officers in the buffer zone that separates Abkhazia's Gali region and Georgia's Zugdidi region. Chaban said 9,000 additional Russian troops and 350 armored vehicles had arrived in Abkhazia to support Russian peacekeepers there.

He said Russian forces were also preparing to help disarm Georgian
forces in the northern part of the Kodori Gorge, the only area of Abkhazia that has remained under Georgian government control.

Georgia launched an attack Friday to regain control over South Ossetia. Russia responded by sending in troops which pushed Georgian forces out of the provincial capital Sunday after fierce fighting. Since Friday, Russia has also bombed many sites in Georgia far from the conflict zone, drawing harsh rebukes from the United States and other Western nations.

[Cobra]

This talk of nuclear confrontation is stupid. Honestly.

Unless Washington, D.C. is threatened by Russian troops or Moscow is in danger of being over run by NATO troops then to even think about a nuclear confrontation between the US and Russia is just fear mongering.

NATO troops could be fighting Russian troops in the caucauses and a nuclear confrontation would still be far off.

A nuclear confrontation is the absolute last resort. For both sides.

[gautnl27]

Warden Messages
U.S. Embassy
Tblisi, Georgia
August 9, 2008

This warden message is being issued to alert American citizens that the Department of State has authorized the departure of family members of U.S. government personnel from Georgia.  Please see the Georgia Travel Warning below.

American citizens in Georgia who would like assistance to depart should contact the U.S. Embassy in Tblisi immediately.   The Embassy is organizing a convoy from Tbilisi to Yerevan that will depart on August 10, 2008.  A second convoy will depart on August 11.  American citizens interested in joining the convoy should call the consular section at 995-32-27-70-00, ext. 7137 or ext. 7003, or 899-57-39-69.

[Protean]

This talk of nuclear confrontation is stupid. Honestly.

Unless Washington, D.C. is threatened by Russian troops or Moscow is in danger of being over run by NATO troops then to even think about a nuclear confrontation between the US and Russia is just fear mongering.

NATO troops could be fighting Russian troops in the caucauses and a nuclear confrontation would still be far off.

A nuclear confrontation is the absolute last resort. For both sides.

Amen......................(knock on wood)

[trailhound]

 It seems the agenda here is to suck in/destroy all the larger nations so the NWO can come to fruition and be our saviors.  The timing is just as planned as we are probably about to elect a puppet with a chip on his shoulder about america. If there's one thing Obama doesnt resemble its an american patriot. rising sun..(intense puking)

[Wanted]

Reporter's diary: View from Moscow
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/2008811134810993568.html


Al Jazeera's Neave Barker describes the scene in Moscow after word reaches Russians of Georgia's order for a ceasefire in South Ossetia.


Russian forces have taken control of Tskhinvali, the capital of Georgia's breakaway South Ossetia region.


News of a Georgian retreat from South Ossetia has been greeted in the capital with a degree of celebration.

Up to 300 hundred people gathered outside the Georgian embassy for an emotional protest.

"Send Saakashvili and Bush to the Hague" they chanted, many waving Abkhazian and South Ossetian flags.  In amongst the crowd, members of pro-government youth movements lending their vocal support.

Many Muscovites view South Ossetians as brethren kin. The vast majority in the breakaway region have Russian passports, regarded by the Russian government as citizens that need defending.

The US embassy has also been the target of demonstrations. Ordinary Russian's feel that Tblisi would never have committed itself to a large scale conflict had it not been allegedly propped up by Washington.

There has been no anger directed at the Georgian people a vast number of whom live in the capital. Vladimir Putin, the Russian prime minister, shared this sentiment, calling the Georgian people "brothers".

The capital's Georgian population is keeping a low profile.

Russian media

The vast majority of Russian news coverage of events comes from state run television stations that focus heavily on the humanitarian situation. Many of them have amazing access and pictures from the heart of the conflict zone, somewhere western journalists are not permitted to go.

It's clear an information war is being waged as well as one on the ground.  All channels follow the government line that Georgia has committed genocide.

Returning from refugee centres in southern Russia, Putin called for a tribunal to be set up to try those guilty of killing civilians on the ground.

"All crimes have to be fixed and be analysed later" agreed Dmitry Medvedev, Russia's president.

Russia is seeking legitimacy for its actions on a global stage.  It continues to insist its aims are to "keep the peace" not to "wage war".

Throughout Sunday, top Russian officials met to discuss the next strategic steps in the conflict.

Press conferences by Russia's deputy foreign minister and chief of general staff were relayed live on a number of state controlled news channels. The message the Kremlin wanted to affirm was that Russia was very much in control of the situation and that it was the Georgian side that was unwilling to back down.

By early evening Moscow confirmed that it had received an official note of ceasefire from Georgia.

The news was greeted tentatively by the Kremlin who continued to report skirmishes on the ground and the presence of Georgian troops in and around Abkhazia.

Late evening Russia's ministry of defence confirmed it had sunk a Georgian missile boat in the Black sea after it and three others boats failed to respond to radio calls and warning shots.

Moscow insists that if any kind of ceasefire is going to hold Georgia must mount and unconditional withdrawal of troops, cease hostilities and agree to a number of obligations - namely not to launch attacks on its breakaway regions again.

While many in the capital believe Moscow is in the latter stages of a "strategic win" the reality is that the Russian government cannot imagine long-term peace without regime change in Tbilisi, an indicator perhaps that a resolution to the conflict is still far away.

Sustained fighting and air raids by Russian war planeson Sunday  prompted Georgia to call for a cease fire.