GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE

[Optimus]

This headline talks about a Georgia ceasefire, but the video is talking about Georgian genocide.
Georgia burns down church full of civilians.


 August 10, 2008, 19:05
Georgia announces ceasefire
 The Russian embassy in Tbilisi has reportedly received a note from the Georgian president saying his country is stopping military action in South Ossetia. Russia’s Interfax news agency reports that Mikhail Saakashvili ordered his army to stop firing on Sunday. However, the Russian Foreign Ministry says Georgia has yet to end hostilities.

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28749/video


Edit: About 10 and a half minutes into the video talks about two bodies of black men found in S. Ossetia, possibly Americans.

Someone needs to get this video and put it up on youtube and send it to Alex.

No timer on the video so it's more around 10 - 11 minutes into the video about American bodies.

[David Rothscum]

If NATO instructors would be sent I doubt they'd send a Black American man who stands out like a sore thumb among the olive skinned Georgians. Then him going to Vladikavkaz, Russia to explain himself? That would mean he's a POW because I can't see a NATO solider willingly going to Russia to be interrogated.

Yes, he's probably a POW. The report lolmao500 talked about mentioned bodies being encountered of black troops. Anyone else here who wonders it could have been these "mercenaries" that fired on the Russians peacekeepers?

No timer on the video so it's more around 10 - 11 minutes into the video about American bodies.

I'm downloading it right now, I'll put it on Youtube ASAP.

[knas]

I would suspect that this is what is going to 'play out now...'

Now that Russia has 'moved the first pawn' in this coming Iranian invasion, Western governments are going to go back to diplomatic efforts while they figure out what to do in the face of Georgian withdrawal in the region, and the strong positioning of Russian troops, much closer to Iran.

Here is the danger in this situation.

Russia is stating that 'Georgians have not fully withdrawn.'  This look for the boogeyman statement is what you say when you want to 'wander and position your troops all over the place - which they will do'

Georgia is stating that it has fully withdrawn and ceded the territory - which I would highly suspect is true.

But here is the important thing that will now happen outside the media for the most part, and what you REALLY want to study and look for

  -  Look for a MASSIVE BUILDUP OF RUSSIAN TROOPS / EQUIPMENT IN S. OSSETTIA / TBILISI
  -  Look for a LARGE CONTINGENT OF NAVAL FORCES in the Caspian sea, to remain there for some time.

This is 'forward positioning' your military for a coming Iranian invasion / blockade.  - do note that the Russian Military can now launch missiles directly towards the middle east, and have many cruise missiles and other advanced long range weaponry that they can call on,

 - THE IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE IS RUSSIA WILL USE THE 'NAVAL ENFORCEMENT BLOCKADE' AS A PRETENSE AND EXCUSE TO KEEP THOSE NAVAL FORCES IN THE REGION FOR SOME TIME TO COME. This is critical because it directly positions nuclear armament RIGHT OFF OF ISRAEL.

I would suspect things are really going to 'slow down for a while' while western governments try to sort themselves out in this manner, and figure out how they are going to shutter the bear in this buildup while the Nato Naval Forces left over from Operation Brimstone try to get in position for a coming 'Naval Blockade' which of course Russian Intelligence services would already know about, and all of this is simply a Russian Pre-emptive move to stop the Iranian Invasion.

So now what can Israel do?

So lets assume that the Mossad through the corrupt Israeli government  has quietly decided to let the 'tail wag the dog' occur, and launches a false flag event on a US city and blames Iran.  I would believe Russia will send a very strong diplomatic message on the back channels at that time to the effect:
  
  "If you nuke Iran, we will obliterate Israel."

Good analysis.
I hear rumours that says that "a 100 kilometer long "metal snake" is making it's way through Russia, heading south".

[Optimus]

I'm downloading it right now, I'll put it on Youtube ASAP.

Thanks David Rothscum,

You can post the youtube link in the live show forum so Alex will see it. And to make sure he gets it also send the youtube link to aaron@infowars.com

[The_lizard]

Wow, tons of drama going down in the UN security council meetings. No one from the west seems to recognize that 2000+ Ossetian's are dead. The USA seems very concerned with regime change in Georgia. Everyone from the west seems to treat this as an invasion by Russia, and not a mission in defence of human rights. WOW, what a double standard.

[Protean]

Aljazeera "Georgia pulls out of Tskhinvali "
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/200881073047511473.html

Excerpt--

Georgian forces have withdrawn from Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital, to positions outside of the city.
"Georgian forces have temporarily left Tskhinvali as part of a tactical manoeuvre.... They are in positions on the outskirts of Tskhinvali," a spokeswoman for Temur Yakobashvili, the Georgian reintegration minister, said on Sunday.
Al Jazeera's Jonah Hull, reporting from the town of Gori, said that the withdrawal began early this morning.

*********
Georgia orders S Ossetia ceasefire
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/200881015252497972.html

Excerpt--
Georgia has ordered its troops in the breakaway region of South Ossetia to cease fire, and is ready for immediate talks with Moscow on a "termination of hostilities", Georgian officials said.
The Georgian foreign ministry said on Sunday that Mikheil Saakashvili, Georgia's president, had signed the order for Georgian forces to cease hostilities.
Sources confirmed Russia had received notice of Georgia's ceasefire order.
But the Russian Interfax news agency said that Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister, had challenged the Georgian announcement, saying its troops were not observing the order.
Jonah Hull, Al Jazeera's correspondent in the Georgian town of Gori, described the announcement as an "extraordinary development" and a "virtual surrender" by Georgia.

[lazarus]

wondering what role china will play in all this

They will be the creditors knocking on our door when it is all over.

[trailhound]

wondering what role china will play in all this

They will be the creditors knocking on our door when it is all over.

 scariest thought of all really, unfortunate reality

[Optimus]

Russia disputes claim of Georgian pullout
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7714666
AP foreign, Sunday August 10 2008

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) - Russia's foreign minister is disputing Georgia's claim that its troops have pulled out of South Ossetia, the separatist region where fighting with Russian forces has killed hundreds this weekend.

Earlier Sunday, Georgia said its troops were withdrawing and President Mikhail Saakashvili said he was calling a cease-fire.

But Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov disputed that in a telephone call with his Georgian counterpart Eka Tkeshelashvili, a ministry statement said.

In the call, ``the Russian side brought in facts about the presence of Georgian forces in certain neighborhoods of Tskhinvali,'' the South Ossetian capital where fighting has been heaviest, the statement said.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

GORI, Georgia (AP) - Georgian troops retreated from the breakaway province of South Ossetia on Sunday as their U.S.-allied government ordered a cease-fire and pressed for a truce, overwhelmed by Russian firepower in a conflict that threatened to set off a wider war.

Russia deployed a naval squadron off the coast of another of Georgia's separatist regions, Abkhazia, and its jets bombed the outskirts of Tblisi, the Georgian capital.

Georgia's Foreign Ministry said its soldiers were observing a cease-fire on orders of the president and notified Russia's envoy to Tbilisi.

``Georgia expresses its readiness to immediately start negotiations with the Russian Federation on cease-fire and termination of hostilities,'' the ministry said in a statement.

The Russian Foreign Ministry had no immediate response to the Georgian offer. It came as the U.N. Security Council - where Russia has veto power - met in an open session and European diplomats sought to mediate.

Georgia, whose troops have been trained by American soldiers, began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia overnight Friday, launching heavy rocket and artillery fire and air strikes that pounded the provincial capital, Tskhinvali.

In response, Russia, which has granted passports to most South Ossetians, launched overwhelming artillery shelling and air attacks on Georgian troops.

Russia has demanded that Georgia pull out its troops from South Ossetia as a condition for a cease-fire. It also urged Georgia to sign a pledge not to use force against South Ossetia as another condition for ending hostilities.

Earlier, Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said that Moscow now needs to verify the Georgian withdrawal. ``We must check all that. We don't trust the Georgian side,'' he said.

On Sunday, Russian jets raided a plant on the eastern outskirts of Tbilisi that builds Su-25 ground jets. The attack damaged runways but caused no casualties, said Georgia's Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili.

``We heard a plane go over and then a big explosion,'' said Malkhaz Chachanidze, a 41-year old ceramics artist whose house is located just outside the fence of the factory, which has been running since the Soviet era. ``It woke us up, everything shook.''

The risk of the conflict setting off a wider war increased when Russian-supported separatists in another breakaway region of Georgia, Abkhazia, launched air and artillery strikes on Georgian troops to drive them out of a small part of the province they control. Fifteen U.N. military observers were told to evacuate.

Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and have built up ties with Moscow. Russia has granted its passports to most of their residents.

In yet another sign that the conflict could widen, Ukraine warned Russia on Sunday it could bar Russian navy ships from returning to their base in the Crimea because of their deployment to Georgia's coast.

President Bush called for an end to the Russian bombings and an immediate halt to the violence.

``The attacks are occurring in regions of Georgia far from the zone of conflict in South Ossetia. They mark a dangerous escalation in the crisis,'' Bush said in a statement to reporters while attending the Olympic Games in Beijing.

Karasin said the ships were sent toward Abkhazia as a deterrent.

``The deployment is quite natural. We don't want a repeat of what happened in South Ossetia,'' he said at a news conference.

The foreign ministers of France and Finland were headed to Georgia to discuss ways to end the conflict, and the U.N. Security Council met for the fourth time in four days to discuss the situation.

Russian jets have been roaming Georgia's skies since Friday. They raided several air bases and bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility. The Russian warplanes also struck near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline which carries Caspian crude to the West, but no supply interruptions have been reported.

Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili called it an ``unprovoked brutal Russian invasion.''

Jim Jeffrey, Bush's deputy national security adviser, warned ``if the disproportionate and dangerous escalation on the Russian side continues, that this will have a significant long-term impact on U.S.-Russian relations.''

A Russian raid on Gori near South Ossetia Saturday which apparently targeted a military base on the town's outskirts left numerous civilian casualties.

An Associated Press reporter who visited the town shortly after the strike saw several apartment buildings in ruins, some still on fire, and scores of dead bodies and bloodied civilians. The elderly, women and children were among the victims.

Russian officials said they weren't targeting civilians, but Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Georgia brought the airstrikes upon itself by bombing civilians and Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. He warned that the small Caucasus country should expect more attacks.

``Whatever side is used to bomb civilians and the positions of peacekeepers, this side is not safe and they should know this,'' Lavrov said.

Karasin, Russia's deputy foreign minister, said more than 2,000 people had been killed in South Ossetia since Friday, most of them Ossetians with Russian passports. The figures could not be independently confirmed.

But residents of the provincial capital Tskhinvali who survived the bombardment by hiding in basements and later fled the city estimated that hundreds of civilians had died. They said bodies were lying everywhere.

Alexander Lomaia, Georgia's security council chief, estimated that Russia sent 2,500 troops into Georgia.

In Saturday's meeting with refugees in the city of Vladikavkaz across the border, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin described Georgia's actions as ``complete genocide. Putin also said Georgia had effectively lost the right to rule the breakaway province - an indication Moscow could be preparing to fulfill South Ossetians' wish to be absorbed into Russia.

Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. Today, Russia has approximately 30 times more people than Georgia and 240 times the area.

Russia also laid much of the responsibility for ending the fighting on Washington, which has trained Georgian troops. Washington, in turned, blamed Russia.

Georgia said it has shot down 10 Russian planes, including four brought down Saturday, according to Lomaia. It also claimed to have captured two Russian pilots, who were shown on Georgian television.

Russian Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the General Staff, confirmed Saturday that two Russian planes had been shot down, but did not say where or when.

Russian military commanders said 15 peacekeepers have been killed and about 150 wounded in South Ossetia, accusing Georgian troops of killing and wounding Russian peacekeepers when they seized Russian checkpoints. The allegations couldn't be independently confirmed.

In Abkhazia, the separatist government said it intended to push Georgian forces out of the Kodori Gorge. The northern part of the gorge is the only area of Abkhazia that has remained under Georgian government control.

Separatist forces also were concentrating on the border with Georgia's Zugdidi region, and Russia's NTV television reported that additional Russian troops landed in Abkhazia Sunday, heading in the same direction.

[The_lizard]

There was just an American on RT saying that Georgia is committing genocide, he was there with his wife. He was calling on Americans to call the white house and tell George Bush to stop supporting Georgia because they are committing genocide in Hitlerian proportions.

[Optimus]

Media Disinformation: BBC distorts the News from the Georgia Region
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9783
Global Research, August 10, 2008

As usual, the BBC is twisting and distorting the news coming out of the Georgia region. We keep being told that around 1500 have been killed in Georgia, the inference being that this has resulted from Russian bombing.

Not so, the casualties are in Ossetia.

While the Ossetians claimed over 1000 dead the BBC neither reported this or any newsreel coming out of Ossetia showing the destruction caused by the Georgian shelling of the breakaway republic.

All we are getting is one-sided reports of the destruction being caused by the Russians.

Unlike News 24 which is its international news carrier, the BBC website does make some mention of Ossetian casualties:



"We left our town because the situation there is worse than anything I've seen in 18 years of conflict. Houses are being hit by rockets and heavy artillery, aircraft are bombing the roads."


Since yesterday, Russia Today was reporting the complete destruction of Ossetia's capital by Georgian shelling. Again, the destruction of the Ossetian capital was never reported by the BBC.

Last Friday, RIA Novosti reported that Ossetia was claiming over 1000 dead:



"Over 1,000 civilians have been killed as the result of an attack by Georgia on the capital of its breakaway republic of South Ossetia, the North Ossetian nationalities minister said Friday.

According to the South Ossetian information and press committee, the number of fatalities is estimated, according to preliminary information, at over 1,000," Teimuraz Kasayev said."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9773


Sometime after mid-day today I tried unsuccessfully to access the Russia Today website for further information. Whether this is because of heavy traffic or because the website is being blocked by someone it is difficult to tell. I experienced the very same problem trying to access the RIA Novosti website.

Meanwhile, a BBC News 24 reporter, Lyse Doucet, tried to suggest that Russia had attacked Abkhazia by sending troops into that breakaway republic! That was soon put into doubt by another BBC reporter from Moscow who speculated that the sending of Russian troops into Abkhazia was not an attack but intended to protect its citizens and holiday-makers there.

On Saturday, China's Xinhua news service reported, "Abkhazia launches operation to force Georgian troops out" and "Georgia defeats Abkhazia's attacks". And previous news from Russia Today had announced Abkhazia's attack on Georgia. So was the BBC's Doucet confused or deliberately confusing the facts?

What is clear, however, is that the BBC is giving carte blanche to the Georgian point-of-view to be aired on its services while nothing whatsoever is being heard from the Ossetian side. The BBC's repetitive playing of a statement by George Bush, given several days ago, without balancing these against statements from the Russian side indicates where the BBC is coming from.

The contrast between the brazenly pro-US, pro-Georgian views being put out on BBC News 24 and the BBC website is to be noted whilst a more balanced assessment has been published by Richard Seymour of Lenin's Tomb. He, like me, believes that the BBC is deliberately confusing the issue. I'm sure we'll get much more of that from the BBC:



"Incidentally, just so that this point isn't lost in the deliberately confusing reportage. Yes, Russian jets are attacking Georgian targets and killing civilians. Yes, the reported civilian casualties "on both sides" is reported to be over 2,000. What is quite often not stated or just gently skated over in the reporting, so laden with images of Georgian dead and wounded, is that the estimate of 2,000 civilian deaths comes from the Russian government and it applies overwhelmingly to the Georgian attacks on South Ossetia on Friday.

In fact, this is the basis for Vladimir Putin's claims of a "genocide" against South Osettians by the Georgians (is he deliberately referencing the ICTY judgment about Srebrenica here?). The Georgian side, by contrast, claims 129 deaths of both soldiers and civilians. So, if Russian figures are good enough to reference, why is the source of the figures and their context obscured? Why is being made to look as if Russian forces are behind most of those alleged deaths? Doesn't this just amount to a whitewash of the actions of the Georgian army in South Ossetia? And why not mention 30,000 refugees too?" http://leninology.blogspot.com/2008/08/putin-wins-probably.html

[Cobra]

Yes, he's probably a POW. The report lolmao500 talked about mentioned bodies being encountered of black troops. Anyone else here who wonders it could have been these "mercenaries" that fired on the Russians peacekeepers?
I'm downloading it right now, I'll put it on Youtube ASAP.

I read the report but I'm still very skeptical about the details.

It may very well be a CIA operative or an operative of another intelligence agency but I highly doubt it's an instructor from NATO.
My inclination is that it may be a Blackwater type mercenary.

[lordssyndicate]

Front Page  Russian News Section / Main Page center story:


The Georgian's Ended the ceasefire last night nearly immediately after agreeing to it  and western media still hasn't  updated any one about this fact as far as I can tell....... (most likely broken under US special forces prodding ... after all we  the US are the aggressors here ....)  It is my strong belief  that the orders to attack Russian troops came from  the "Cheney of Command " ... so to speak ... I know bad play on words but I couldn't help myself there but  yeah  .. you get my point ....

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/09-08-2008/106049-russiasaviour-0

Russia: Again Savior of Peace and Life
Front page / Russia / Politics
09.08.2008

The international community collectively held their breath waiting for the reaction of Russia after the savage, brutal, criminal attack by Georgia on South Ossetia. After having offered a cease fire in hostilities, the back stabbing Georgians immediately violated the cease fire, invading South Ossetia and causing massive destruction and death among innocent civilians, among peacekeepers and also destroying a hospital.

At approximately 11:30 p.m. Moscow time Georgians opened fire with heavy artillery from the side of the Georgian villages of Ergneti and Nikozi against the city of Tskhinval, the Defense Ministry of South Ossetia announced on Thursday. Georgian troops attempted to storm the city much as Hitler‘s Panzer divisions blazed through Europe. Also noteworthy is the fact that Georgian tanks and infantry were being aided by Israeli advisors, a true indicator that this conflict was instigated by outside forces.

Meanwhile, the western corporate media was maintaining a blackout of “the grand silence” on the aggression of Georgia. When they did finally report on it, they were as usual telling the story backwards with headlines such as “Russian Jets Attack Georgia” and “They Have Declared War Against Us” as though Georgia had not done anything wrong.

A large part of the capital of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, has been destroyed along with five villages. South Ossetia reports that more than 1,600 people have been killed in the past 24 hours. There are also many casualties among peacekeepers and hospitals are said to be overflowing with victims.

Relating what has become common practice among war criminals, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov reported: "A Russian humanitarian convoy has come under fire. Panic is growing among the local population, and the number of refugees is increasing. There are reports of ethnic cleansing in some villages... The situation is ripe for a humanitarian catastrophe."

Zarskaya road, which encircles the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, was cleared of Georgian troops as Russian tanks entered the area. So at long last, the soldiers of civilization and peace, the Russian Army, has moved in to push back the invaders. An elite Spetznaz unit has arrived in the South Ossetian capital. They will support Russian peacekeepers who are reported to be coming under artillery fire from Georgian troops. During a meeting with the Minister of Defense, Anatoly Serdyukov, Dmitry Medvedev said Russian peacekeepers will attempt to "force the Georgian side to stop fighting."

NATO, the US and the EU all called for an immediate end to hostilities. The EU will be convening an emergency session to work on plans for a cease fire. Georgia's president told CNN: "Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory." In a display of cowboy bravado, Georgia also announced that their contingent in Iraq would be withdrawn, ostensibly to be available for further incursions and murderous rampages such as the one of Friday morning. Saakashvili, looking like a pompous clown, called on reservists to sign up for duty, saying: "This is a clear intrusion on another country's territory. We have Russian tanks on our territory, jets on our territory in broad daylight.” This of course is leaving out the part where he first sent his jets to strafe and bomb civilian areas and the Russian response comes as an attempt to prevent further attacks.

Russia and the international community have called on Georgia to pull its troops out of the region. Russian president Dmitry Medvedev says Moscow will take appropriate political and military measures to stop the violence in South Ossetia and he resolutely assures that those responsible will pay for their crimes.

Tshinvali is reported to be short of medicine and water, while most of the city's communication networks have been destroyed. Russian peacekeepers are assisting remaining residents. President Medvedev has ordered humanitarian assistance for the beleaguered region. A mobile hospital will leave Moscow for North Ossetia, a Russian republic bordering South Ossetia, at 22:00 (18:00 GMT). An Il-76 aircraft will deliver medical equipment as well as doctors, psychologists and rescuers totaling 60 personnel.

President Medvedev said, “The Russian military presence in South Ossetia complies with international law and is aimed at enforcing peace. As it has been throughout history, Russia continues to guarantee peace and security in the Caucasus. The action by Georgia contravenes Russia’s mandate for peacekeeping and amounts to blatant aggression. Russian peacekeeping forces and unarmed women, children and elderly have been the victims.”

Russia will continue to take adequate military and political measures for the immediate cessation of violence and to protect civilians including women, children and the elderly, most of whom are citizens of the Russian Federation as it implements a peacekeeping mission in accordance with existing international agreements.


The Georgian Parliament has approved a presidential decree declaring a state of war for 15 days. Meanwhile, on his way back from the Olympics, Vladimir Putin stopped by the North Ossetian capital on his way back from the Olympics to survey the situation and speak about the refugee situation. “ Georgia’s actions are criminal, whereas Russia’s actions are absolutely legitimate,” the Russian Prime Minister said.

Georgia’s desperate gamble has exploded in their faces. The conflict ``absolutely dooms Georgia's chances for North Atlantic Treaty Organization membership,” said Robert Hunter, US ambassador to the Brussels-based alliance under President Bill Clinton and now a senior adviser at the policy- research group RAND Corp. in Washington. ``You don't bring in a country that has this sort of trouble.''

The only possible and reasonable way out of this situation is the complete withdrawal of Georgian troops to their initial positions and the immediate signing of a legally binding agreement on the non-use of force. Only after this measure has been taken will it be possible to talk about further measures to de-escalate tensions. And so protecting LIFE is the honorable duty of the Russian military. Much as it was during the Great Patriotic War, when the Red Army hoisted the hammer and sickle flag on the Reichstag building, signifying the defeat of fascism.

I find of particular  interest how they accurately point out that the western news agencies are all reporting on this  ass-backwards and that this sort of dis-info is  the normal occurrence.

Also of particular interest is the  Clinton quote likening this conflict to the end of WWII.

It is not to be taken lightly either ...

So, from my standpoint:  we - the US - via our special forces and puppet regime  in Georgia have begun a conflict that will lead to WW IV (as the neo-cons call it) and the Russians know this. Yet they are playing it cool like they always have and not rushing to act on any of their rather valid conclusions.

This entire conflict is being driven by the US military and it is an irresponsible gamble that may very well lead to a nuclear strike.

But hey in the minds of the Power Elite;  what better way to kill off 90% of the population than a nuclear holocaust ?  

Isn't that Dr. Pianca's ultimate fantasy?  Sadly, I'm serious here.

[k4l4sh]

2:18 - "Fighting for future world order"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DfaUfJNGoE

And STILL using the EU flag, but this time with the golden edge, THE WAR FLAG of Europe which btw I have never seen before!!! Is this not a clear symbol? I think it is.

[Sasha]

13 minutes ago
(article can't be reaccessed - may have just been scrubbed)


Russian news agencies report sunken Georgian ship
Associated Press
David Nowak in Gori, Georgia
Douglas Birch in Vladikavkaz, Russia
Jim Heintz, Vladimir Isachenkov and Lynn Berry in Moscow



TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Russian news agencies say the Defense Ministry is claiming to have sunk a Georgian missile boat that was trying to attack Russian navy ships in the Black Sea.

Russia's Defense Ministry refused to comment on the Sunday reports to The Associated Press and Georgian officials could not immediately be reached.

If confirmed, the incident could mark a serious escalation of the fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian province of South Ossetia.

"Georgian missile patrol boats today made two attempts to attack Russian military ships. The Russian ships opened fire in response and as a result, one of the Georgian ships carrying out the attack was sunk," the ITAR-Tass news agency quoted a ministry spokesman as saying.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Georgia called a cease-fire and said its troops were retreating Sunday from the disputed province of South Ossetia in the face of Russia's far superior firepower. Russia said the soldiers were "not withdrawing but regrouping" and refused to recognize a truce.

International envoys headed in to try to end the fighting between Russia and its small U.S.-allied neighbor that erupted last week in the Russian-backed separatist region.

The announcement of a retreat came after Russia expanded its bombing blitz Sunday — targeting the area around the Georgian capital's international airport. Russia also deployed a naval squadron off another of Georgia's separatist regions, Abkhazia, and according to Georgia landed thousands of troops.

President Mikhail Saakashvili ordered a unilateral cease-fire, the Foreign Ministry said, and the country's security council head said troops had left South Ossetia. Russia, however, insisted Georgian soldiers remained around the regional capital, Tskhinvali, where the fighting has been the most brutal. Tskhinvali is located close to the border between the breakaway region and the rest of Georgia.

Georgia, whose troops have been trained by American soldiers, began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia overnight Friday, launching heavy rocket and artillery fire and air strikes that pounded Tskhinvali.

In response, Russia launched overwhelming artillery shelling and air attacks on Georgian troops. On Sunday, Russian jets targeted an aircraft-making plant near the airport on the outskirts of Tbilisi, the capital of the former Soviet republic.

Thousands of civilians have fled South Ossetia — many seeking shelter in the Russian province of North Ossetia.

"The Georgians burned all of our homes," said one elderly woman, as she sat on a bench under a tree with three other white-haired survivors of the fighting.

She seemed confused by the conflict. "The Georgians say it is their land," she said. "Where is our land, then? We don't know."

The scope of Russia's military response has the Bush administration deeply worried.

"We have made it clear to the Russians that if the disproportionate and dangerous escalation on the Russian side continues, that this will have a significant long-term impact on U.S.-Russian relations," U.S. deputy national security adviser Jim Jeffrey told reporters.

The U.S. military began flying 2,000 Georgian troops home from Iraq after Georgia recalled them, even while calling for a truce.

"Georgia expresses its readiness to immediately start negotiations with the Russian Federation on a cease-fire and termination of hostilities," the Georgian Foreign Ministry said in a statement, adding that it had notified Russia's envoy to Tbilisi.

But Russia insisted Georgian troops were continuing their attacks.

Alexander Darchiev, Russia's charge d'affairs in Washington, said Georgian soldiers were "not withdrawing but regrouping, including heavy armor and increased attacks on Tskhinvali."

"Mass mobilization is still under way," he told CNN's "Late Edition."

The U.N. Security Council — where Russia has a veto — began talks Sunday for the fourth time in four days to try to resolve the situation.

Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said more than 2,000 people had been killed in South Ossetia since Friday, most of them Ossetians with Russian passports. The figures could not be independently confirmed.

The respected Russian radio station Ekho Moskvy reported that two journalists were killed by South Ossetian separatists, citing a correspondent of Russian Newsweek magazine.

Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s.

Both separatist provinces have close ties with Moscow, while Georgia has deeply angered Russia by wanting to join NATO.

Georgia's Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said the Georgian troops had to move out of South Ossetia because of heavy Russian shelling. "Russia further escalated its aggression overnight, using weapons on unprecedented scale," Lomaia said.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner called the hostilities in South Ossetia "massacres," hours before he and Finnish counterpart Alexander Stubb were scheduled to travel to Tbilisi for a meeting with Saakashvili.

Kouchner said he would deliver a "message of peace" to Georgia and Russia, and call on both countries "to stop the fighting immediately."

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, meeting Saturday with South Ossetia refugees who had fled across the border to the Russian city of Vladikavkaz, described Georgia's actions as "complete genocide." Putin also said Georgia had lost the right to rule the breakaway province — an indication Moscow could be ready to absorb the province.

President Bush has called for an end to the Russian bombings and an immediate halt to the fighting, accusing Russia of using the issue to bomb other regions in Georgia.

Russian jets raided several Georgian air bases and bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility. The Russian warplanes also struck near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline which carries Caspian crude to the West.

Russian officials said they were targeting Georgian communications and lines of supply. But a Russian raid Saturday on Gori near South Ossetia, which apparently targeted a military base on the town's outskirts, also killed many civilians.

Tskhinvali residents who survived the Georgian bombardment overnight Friday by hiding in basements and later fled the city estimated that hundreds of civilians had died.

The Georgian government said Sunday that 6,000 Russian troops have rolled into South Ossetia from the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia and 4,000 more landed in Abkhazia. The Russian military wouldn't comment on troop movements.

Russia also sent a naval squadron to blockade Georgia's Black Sea coast. Ukraine, where the ships were based, warned Russia in response that it has the right to bar the ships from coming back to port because of their mission.

Both Ukraine and Georgia have sought to free themselves of Russia's influence, and to integrate into the West and join NATO.

Georgia said it has shot down 10 Russian planes, but Russia acknowledged only two.

NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said Russia violated Georgia's territorial integrity in South Ossetia and employed a "disproportionate use of force."

Adding to Georgia's woes, Russian-supported separatists in Abkhazia launched air and artillery strikes on Georgian troops to drive them out of a small part of the province they control.

Abkhazia's separatist government called out the army and reservists on Sunday and declared it would push Georgian forces out of the northern part of the Kodori Gorge, the only area of Abkhazia still under Georgian control.

Separatist Abkhazia forces also were concentrating on the border near Georgia's Zugdidi region.

[Wanted]

UNHCR seeks aid access in S.Ossetia
http://www.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUSLA552187._CH_.2400


GENEVA, Aug 10 (Reuters) - The United Nations refugee agency (UNHCR) called on Sunday for humanitarian access and safe passage for thousands of civilians caught up in fighting in the Georgian breakaway region of South Ossetia.

"The conflict has caused civilian casualties and more are at risk," U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees Antonio Guterres said.

"It is essential that humanitarian agencies be able to reach the affected and the displaced, and that those trapped in conflict areas be granted passage to safer areas as soon as possible," he said in a statement.

The agency welcomed news that two humanitarian corridors would be established for civilians caught up in the conflict.

The two corridors are reportedly out of South Ossetia to North Ossetia in the Russian Federation and to the south to Georgia proper, the UNHCR said in a statement later on Sunday.

Russia poured troops and tanks across its southern border into Georgia and bombed Georgian targets after Tbilisi attempted on Thursday evening to retake South Ossetia, a small pro-Russian province which broke away from Georgia in the 1990s.

Fighting has raged since then with various figures on the numbers of civilians killed but the combined total is believed to be about 2,000. Towns in South Ossetia have been devastated.

Several thousand displaced people have already fled from South Ossetia to other parts of Georgia, and thousands more have gone north to North Ossetia in Russia, the UNHCR said, citing figures from authorities there.

The number of those displaced in Georgia proper and South Ossetia is estimated to be between 10,000 and 20,000, said UNHCR spokesman Ron Redmond.

"The Georgians have said that 2,400 people have fled into Georgia proper, but our representative there believes this figure is substantially higher," Redmond said.

Sergei Sobyanin, the Russian government chief of staff, has said 30,000 South Ossetian refugees fled to Russia since Friday.

The UNHCR was sending a team to the Georgian town of Gori, scene of Russian bombing, on Sunday to assess needs there and intends to resume aid convoys as soon as possible, Redmond said. (Reporting by Katie Reid; Editing by Mary Gabriel)

[RonPaulRocks]

Everyone please subscribe to the Russia Today You Tube channel.

At least we can get an independent news outlet to get the other side of the story from.  It seems as though Russia Today is actually a decent news outlet and the only network in English countering the lies from CNN and AP.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday

[gabba2k7]

http://www.vesti.ru/videos?cid=2 ->videos [on english]
http://www.russiatoday.ru/ ->videos [on english]
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/ ->statements [on english]
http://war.georgia.su/ ->videos & statements [on english]

[The_lizard]

And STILL using the EU flag, but this time with the golden edge, THE WAR FLAG of Europe which btw I have never seen before!!! Is this not a clear symbol? I think it is.

Wait, so this guy is using the war flag of a political body that he is not a part of? Is Georgia a part of the EU?
I think that video is hilarious you can see the stress in that guys body language as well as physically, it's like "We totally got screwed over!"

[The_lizard]

Everyone please subscribe to the Russia Today You Tube channel.

At least we can get an independent news outlet to get the other side of the story from.  It seems as though Russia Today is actually a decent news outlet and the only network in English countering the lies from CNN and AP.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday

you can also just watch the streaming feed here: http://streaming.visionip.tv/Russia_Today

[Cobra]

Wait, so this guy is using the war flag of a political body that he is not a part of? Is Georgia a part of the EU?
I think that video is hilarious you can see the stress in that guys body language as well as physically, it's like "We totally got screwed over!"

Which video is this?

[The_lizard]

Which video is this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DfaUfJNGoE

[Sasha]

Everyone please subscribe to the Russia Today You Tube channel.

At least we can get an independent news outlet to get the other side of the story from.  It seems as though Russia Today is actually a decent news outlet and the only network in English countering the lies from CNN and AP.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday

I've been listening to it for 2+ hours now, from the link to windows media player posted earlier in the thread.  RT is almost covering this issue and only this issue.

One must keep in mind that there is spin going on on RT too but, its coverage is many times more accurate (according to multitudes of cross-referenced reports) than the MSM's in the US right now.

Good suggestion about YouTube add.  Will do.

[Optimus]

U.S., Russia Square Off at U.N.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121839300321827885.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
By ALEX FRANGOS
August 10, 2008 2:37 p.m.

NEW YORK -- Tensions mounted between the U.S. and Russia at the United Nations where the U.S. circulated a draft Security Council resolution that condemned Russia's actions in Georgia.

In a testy back and forth at the Security Council, U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Zalmay Khalilzad said that Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice this morning on a telephone call that Russia's aim is to depose Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili. "Saakashvilli must go," Mr. Lavrov said, according to Mr. Khalilzad.

"This raises serious questions about Russia's objectives," Mr. Khalilzad told the council. "This is completely unacceptable and crosses a line."

The Russian Ambassador, Vitaly Churkin seemed to acknowledge the conversation between the country's top diplomats, which he called "confidential" and "diplomatic." He responded that " 'regime change' is an American expression." But then Mr. Churkin seemed pleased that the idea of Mr. Shakasvill's ouster had been aired. "I am encouraged that you've referred to this publicly," he said. "That this means this is an interesting idea."

The diplomatic dance between Russia and the U.S. reflected how the crisis in Georgia has caused a rapid reengagement between the two nuclear powers. Mr. Khalilzad echoed the U.S. message of the day, that Russia's continued military action "will have negative impact on the long term relationship between us and them." But Mr. Khalilzad was also careful not to speak too harshly. "We are not looking to have a hostile relationship with them. That's not a goal for us."

The Security Council is unlikely to pass a resolution given that Russia, as one of the five permanent members of the council, can veto any such resolution. Russia didn't say a resolution was impossible, but said conditions for such a group statement included both Georgia's withdrawal from South Ossetia and its agreement to sign a document forswearing force in both South Ossetia and the breakaway region of Abkhazia.

"It's too early to talk about any veto," Mr. Churkin said.

[Optimus]

Russia tells Security Council it is ready to negotiate with Georgia
http://www.kndo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8817836&nav=menu484_2
Associated Press - August 10, 2008 2:53 PM ET

UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Russia says it's ready to make peace with Georgia.

And U.N. officials are confirming that Georgia is prepared to negotiate.

During a Security Council meeting today, Russia's ambassador said his country is "ready to put an end to the war."

And the U.N. Undersecretary-General for Political Affairs (Lynne Pascoe) told the council that Georgian officials are "ready for immediate talks" with Russia. He also said Georgia's offer to create a safe travel zone -- or "humanitarian corridor" -- for civilians, refugees and troops would help the negotiations.

But British Deputy Ambassador Karen Pierce questioned why Russia is unwilling to agree to an immediate cease-fire. And U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad (ZAHL'-may kah-LEEL'-zahd) accused Russia of resisting attempts to make peace.

[David Rothscum]

Thanks David Rothscum,

You can post the youtube link in the live show forum so Alex will see it. And to make sure he gets it also send the youtube link to aaron@infowars.com

Computer here keeps screwing up, it's going to take a while. I've got the raw .avi file here, if anyone wants it just ask.

[Optimus]

UN Must Demand Russian Withdrawal From Georgia, U.S. Envoy Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEb2_xjZ46kQ&refer=home
By Bill Varner

Aug. 10 (Bloomberg) -- The United Nations Security Council must demand Russia's withdrawal from Georgia and an end to hostilities in the separatist regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said.

``We believe the Security Council needs to take urgent action,'' Khalilzad said today as the UN's principal policy- making panel met for the fourth consecutive day on the fighting in Georgia. ``We cannot be indifferent. We must condemn Russia's military assault on the sovereign state of Georgia.''

Russia poured troops and tanks last week into South Ossetia in what it said was a response to Georgia's assault on civilians and Russian peacekeeping forces in the disputed region. Russian warplanes also bombed targets in Georgia.

The Security Council has failed since the crisis began Aug. 7 to agree on a position on the Russian incursion. While a unanimous vote of the 15-member panel wouldn't be required for adoption of a resolution, Russia could exercise its veto power to defeat such a measure.

Today's meeting included increasingly harsh direct exchanges between Russian, U.S. and Georgian envoys to the UN.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in a telephone conversation today that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili ``must go,'' meaning he should be ousted from office, Khalilzad said.

``This is completely unacceptable and crosses a line,'' the U.S. envoy said. ``The days of overthrowing leaders by military means in Europe are gone.''

Regime Change

Khalilzad then asked Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin whether his government's policy was ``regime change'' in Georgia. Churkin responded by saying that regime change was an American, not a Russian, expression.

Irakli Alasania, Georgia's ambassador to the UN, said Churkin was employing the same ``propaganda'' that the former Soviet Union used to justify military actions in Afghanistan, Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

Alasania told the Security Council that Russia is in the ``process of the extermination of Georgia's population and that the annihilation of Georgian statehood is going on in full swing.'' He appealed to the Security Council to ``act immediately to save human lives'' by adopting the U.S.-drafted resolution.

``We continue to face the intransigent rejection of Russia to stop the violence,'' Khalilzad said. ``Georgia has offered a cease-fire, but Russia refuses this reasonable position. Russian forces are impeding the withdrawal of Georgian forces from South Ossetia.''

Khalilzad also said Abkhazians are engaged in a ``Russian- backed military offensive'' against Georgia in the Upper Kodori Valley that is a ``direct challenge to a UN Security Council mandated mission.''

UN peacekeepers are monitoring the cease-fire that ended fighting between Abkhazian separatists and Georgia's military in 1992. The UN yesterday withdrew monitors from the Upper Kodori River Valley, which separates Georgian and Abkhazian forces, at the request of Abkhazian authorities.

[ramallamamama]

The Russian Ambassador, Vitaly Churkin seemed to acknowledge the conversation between the country's top diplomats, which he called "confidential" and "diplomatic." He responded that " 'regime change' is an American expression." But then Mr. Churkin seemed pleased that the idea of Mr. Shakasvill's ouster had been aired. "I am encouraged that you've referred to this publicly," he said. "That this means this is an interesting idea."

There's no double standard, nothing to see here. Please go back to watching the Sky News feeds...

[lordssyndicate]

correction sorry the c former clinton adviser quote .....

But yeah This is big.
It shows Georgia  (under US military orders no doubt) will not step down on this and they will do everything they can to continually escalate this.

There will be no real cease fire! Understand this is only the beginning and the US won't stop till they force Russia's hand in the matter.  

This administration knows that Russia has sworn to protect Iran. So, the neo-cons had to test Russia's capabilities some how.

After all, since the end of the cold war our intelligence agents have been slowly weeded out of Russian power centers. What no one is saying is - that while Russia has much intelligent on what the US is doing, the US has very little in regards to their plans and current capabilities.  I have solid sources that confirm this is the case.  

 Also it is a very strong possibility that our current administration is under the delusion that, a conflict like this will confuse Russia long enough for them to move on Iran.

On both points, our administration is severely underestimating the Russian military and has put us in a very sticky catch 22.

I only hope that some one high enough in the military has the good sense not to follow the orders to start the attack on Iran, because Russia will most likely retaliate with nuclear arms ....


But what I find even more interesting is this quote from the article posted by Sasha :

The scope of Russia's military response has the Bush administration deeply worried.

"We have made it clear to the Russians that if the disproportionate and dangerous escalation on the Russian side continues, that this will have a significant long-term impact on U.S.-Russian relations," U.S. deputy national security adviser Jim Jeffrey told reporters.

It truly solidifies my prior statement about the lack of US intelligence as well as our administration's deep involvement in this conflict.


Also  just like to take a second tto point out a few key points about pravda.ru .

Pravda.ru is not only Russia's second largest and 2nd most read news paper, it is also the news paper that bought all of the KBG's files when they went up for auction durring the fall of the soviet union.

They have since then published many of these files as " articles" within their news paper.... So, while some of the news they report may seem tabloidish, unlike the US's national enquirer Pravda has the KBG files to back up anything they print!

That said, they have been a staunch supporter of truth in journalism.....

That said I leave you with this article (yes it's an editorial but show me any other major printed news paper who has the balls to print this)  (which is what most Russians truly believe)

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/79790-7/

The Godfather USA

The US government’s 9/11 false-flag attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon involved a coordinated effort by the CIA, the White House, the NSA, the FBI, NORAD, the Pentagon, and other federal agencies, along with the ongoing complicity of the USA’s major media outlets. The Israeli Mossad was also a likely accomplice to the 9/11 attacks, as indicated by evidence that demonstrates Israeli foreknowledge of those attacks. Since 9/11, the USA’s intelligence agencies have been further integrated under the overall leadership of the CIA, another step toward the formation of a monolithic US secret police with a global reach. Recently the arrest and ‘rendition’ by the CIA of so-called ‘Terrorist suspects’ throughout the world to undisclosed locations, often against the protests of the nations where the arrests take place, show us that not only does the USA fancy itself to be the ‘world’s policeman,’ but the CIA also wants to be the ‘world’s secret police.’ Many US citizens who oppose the aggressive right-wing domestic and foreign policies of President George Walker Bush and the Republican Party still have a naïve faith that the opposition Democrat Party will ‘turn the country around’ with a return to more Liberal policies if the Democrats are voted back into office. However, the ruling elite of the USA controls both of the major US political parties, which it manipulates like a pair of hand puppets. The Harriman Bank heiress, Pamela Harriman, was the chief contributor to the Democrat Party for thirty years, until her death in 2001. Pamela Harriman bankrolled the two Presidential campaigns of Democrat William Jefferson Clinton, who supported the CIA’s Iran/Contra drugs and arms smuggling through the airport at Mena, Arkansas while he was Governor of that State. During the 2004 Presidential election, the candidates of both major political parties were both the wealthy sons of CIA men, both graduates of Yale, both members of Yale’s secretive and elitist Skull and Bones Club, and both espoused a belief in the USA’s manufactured threat of ‘global Islamic Terrorism.’

The USA has all the ingredients of fascism: an intimate marriage of government, big business, and the military, in which the national media exclusively disseminates government-approved propaganda, and a ruthless, extra-legal and international secret police that enforces the policies of the ruling elite. Fascism in the USA is an accomplished fact, and it has been for the past forty years.

What can US citizens do to change the situation? Not much, short of revolution, because the entire US government and both of the two major US political parties are irredeemably corrupt. To bring about meaningful reform, the USA would need to abolish the CIA, require a full vote of Congress for any overseas military activity, restrict foreign aid to democracies with a proven human rights record, and eliminate financial contributions to politicians and their causes from lobbyists.

But fantasies of political reform are for dreamers, because corruption is the way of the world. For their own personal good, concerned citizens should study the secret history of the USA, and share that knowledge with those who will listen. And if they are ethical they should avoid, in every way possible, supporting the US government.

Gregory F. Fegel

[The_lizard]

Saakashvili needs to go, it really is genocide. I hear rumors of Georgian tanks running over graves and throwing grenades down cellars. Using cluster bombs on civilian populations. Apparently they shut off the Ossetian water supply over a month ago. When the Soviet Union broke up all states were supposed to be given a referendum and Georgia apparently didn't give Ossetia a chance that is why its republics are breaking away. I also hear it the referendum was a 99% separation vote with a 95% turn out. That's just criminal, George Bush should be impeached for just backing this asshole, apparently in Georgia democracy isn't a relative term.

[Optimus]

Computer here keeps screwing up, it's going to take a while. I've got the raw .avi file here, if anyone wants it just ask.

I would like a copy. I PM'd you about how to send it to me.

Thanks.

Route

[Cobra]

There's no double standard, nothing to see here. Please go back to watching the Sky News feeds...

Russia has its own double standards. See the conflict in Chechnya.

 As I said before the Russian power elite are not that much different than the American power elite.

This is a power play on both sides.

[Cobra]

Saakashvili needs to go, it really is genocide. I hear rumors of Georgian tanks running over graves and throwing grenades down cellars. Using cluster bombs on civilian populations. Apparently they shut off the Ossetian water supply over a month ago. When the Soviet Union broke up all states were supposed to be given a referendum and Georgia apparently didn't give Ossetia a chance that is why its republics are breaking away. I also hear it the referendum was a 99% separation vote with a 95% turn out. That's just criminal, George Bush should be impeached for just backing this asshole, apparently in Georgia democracy isn't a relative term.

Russia is no angel in this regard either. Chechnya also voted for independence and got some autonomy but then Russia staged a false flag attack to start the 2nd Chechen war.
They've literally killed or expelled 80%+ of the Chechen population.

There are no good guys in this conflict.

[The_lizard]

Russia has its own double standards. See the conflict in Chechnya.

 As I said before the Russian power elite are not that much different than the American power elite.

This is a power play on both sides.

i'll agree with you but i think Russia is a lot better off since it has kicked the Oligarchs out. I think they know what's going on in the west and are perhaps giving the world a signal that they are prepared. Then again it could all be a trap that the west concocted, like bigZ's papers. its all a chess game i don't know who's on top right now but i'll take the Russian power elite over the western power elite in the 21st century thanks.

[Cobra]

i'll agree with you but i think Russia is a lot better off since it has kicked the Oligarchs out. I think they know what's going on in the west and are perhaps giving the world a signal that they are prepared. Then again it could all be a trap that the west concocted, like bigZ's papers. its all a chess game i don't know who's on top right now but i'll take the Russian power elite over the western power elite in the 21st century thanks.

Russia is not against the NWO per se. They are against the US/ Zbig being in control of it.
Zbig is vehemently Anti-Russian because he's Polish and there has been no love lost between Poland and Russia over the centuries.

Russia is no anti NWO or anti Globalist. They just don't want the US/EU running the show. They want an equal stake.

Russia believes that it has acquired a right to be a world power. They believe that the former Soviet states should be in their sphere of influence. Instead of the former soviet states being whores for the US they want to be whores for Russia.

[The_lizard]

Russia is no angel in this regard either. Chechnya also voted for independence and got some autonomy but then Russia staged a false flag attack to start the 2nd Chechen war.
They've literally killed or expelled 80%+ of the Chechen population.

There are no good guys in this conflict.

I honestly don't know, i do know that the USA backed the Chechnya terrorists and separatists. Also the USA has backed nearly all events which has lead russia into conflicts since the end of the 2nd world war. When i think about who russia has backed well i can't say much for korea but i do know the gulf of tonkin was staged to  bring the USA into vietnam it wasn't russia. So really who is the lesser of the 2 evils?

[Cobra]

I honestly don't know, i do know that the USA backed the Chechnya terrorists and separatists. Also the USA has backed nearly all events which has lead russia into conflicts since the end of the 2nd world war. When i think about who russia has backed well i can't say much for korea but i do know the gulf of tonkin was staged to  bring the USA into vietnam it wasn't russia. So really who is the lesser of the 2 evils?

Russia is only the lesser of 2 evils because they don't have the power that the US has. IF they had equivalent power they'd do the same.

Saudi Arabia did actively back Chechens but the Chechens did vote for independence (twice) and they have been under the thumb of Russia , against their will, for a few centuries now. Just like the Ossetians are being denied independence the Chechens have been treated in the same manner.

This is geopolitics. It has nothing to do with protecting Ossetians. I can tell you with total conviction that the Russians look down on the various mountain nations as backwards and inferior.

My only problem is with so many being so Pro-Russia. The fact of the matter is that no matter which side wins peace and liberty lose.

[trailhound]

My only problem is with so many being so Pro-Russia. The fact of the matter is that no matter which side wins peace and liberty lose.

+1

[The_lizard]

Russia is not against the NWO per se. They are against the US/ Zbig being in control of it.
Zbig is vehemently Anti-Russian because he's Polish and there has been no love lost between Poland and Russia over the centuries.

Russia is no anti NWO or anti Globalist. They just don't want the US/EU running the show. They want an equal stake.

Russia believes that it has acquired a right to be a world power. They believe that the former Soviet states should be in their sphere of influence. Instead of the former soviet states being whores for the US they want to be whores for Russia.

Obviously they want the former states in their sphere of influence, the US action is completely irresponsible. imagine if mexico went pro soviet started waving the hammer and sickle and see how long it would last. Look at the way the media is treating Russia. Russia has no choice but to fill this role because they wanted to be a part of the world and are still made out to be this big evil empire.

The USA wants to be the sole world superpower PERIOD. If that happens with the lunatics the white house and congress now... god help us. Seriously, Russia wants to be a part of the world community and the united states is making us believe the cold war is over while still making Russia out to be this evil empire. I think it's pretty bias and unfair, from everything i have seen Russia's role in this is humanitarian. While Georgia has been killing civilians, declaring martial law and beating and using sound weapons on their own people.

think back to the Cuban missile crisis albeit it was cold war but still. no one ideology is perfect but damn the world today is confusing.

[joequinn]

I simply do not understand why Saakashvili thought that he could send his troops into South Ossetia for a good session of "ethnic cleansing" and NOT think that Russia would respond in any other way than the way in which it has. I get the impression that America egged him on with false promises of support. Poor Saakashvili! He obviously failed to remember the way in which Poppy Bush urged the Shi'ites to rise up against Saddam Hussein in 1991 and then stood by to let them be massacred. Or even more appropriately, the way in which the Eisenhower Administration urged the Hungarian people to rise up against Russia in 1956 and then stood by to let them be massacred.

Saakashvili is only the latest of the many fools who trusted America --- and then learned what a pawn in the game they actually were.