GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE

[1776blues]

no oil to gain

Not according to the report on Fox and the reaffirmation of the huge discovery of oil in Russia and Indonesia by Lindsey Williams on Alex's show July 28th. A caller yesterday eluded to that. Something like 90 billion barrels in Russia alone.

I believe there were two in Russia and one is close to the Arctic circle which I vaguely heard that the US and Russia are arguing over it, not real sure, but I think that too was mentioned on infowars radio. Correct me if I am wrong on the last part.

[Cobra]

depends where it is, in georgia the US would lose badly. Because 1. georgia was part of russia for 200 years and it's on their border. 2. the US isn't at all prepared for a war with russia, you can barely hold bagdad and you think you can win a war with russia on their own turf?
Also, you have to think about how practical the russian military is and inventive. you can pump all the money you want into fancy gagets but some mud or water will still wreck it.
Plus, Russia already told the states they will nuke them if they keep surrounding. your just a slave of your media, it's not your fault.

haha. Slave of the media?

I am Russian (sort of, born in belarus). I read and watch Russian news also.

Russia like to brag a lot. They like to think back to the old glory days of the Soviet Union as if that's something to be proud of. Too bad they're population is in decline and the west raped their country for the first ten years after the USSR fell.

There will be no major war between Russia and US. NEITHER side wants one. What's so hard to comprehend?

I'll talk about Baghdad. You want to talk about Chechnya? Same shit.  Russia is no different from the US in this respect. Both have imperial ambitions.

[Sub-X]

Georgia conflict: Pro-Kremlin enclaves surround Russian borders
Telegraph
9 August 2008

A necklace of pro-Kremlin enclaves around Russia's fringe stands at the forefront of Moscow's rearguard efforts to fend off encroachment from the West.

The origins of Russia's fight to control the "near abroad" goes back to the 19th century Tsarist expansion, but since 1991 a handful of statelets have sheltered under the Kremlin's wing and perpetuated the toxic legacy of the Soviet break-up.

The enclave of South Ossetia in Georgia sought Russian protection as far back as 1993. The Kremlin's troops, officially designated as peacekeepers, have since unofficially preserved the autonomy of a 70,000-strong population, more than 90 per cent Russian passport holders.

Georgia's attempts to join Nato made conflict over South Ossetia inevitable. Russia's determination to check the Atlantic alliance's eastern expansion has pitched an obscure power struggle to the centre of the global spotlight.

Observers had originally expected the flashpoint to arise in another Georgian enclave, Abkhazia on the Black Sea. A low level war of bombings and targetted assassinations recently stoked tensions with Tblisi, forcing the closure of all border crossings at the end of June.

Last month US State Secretary Condoleezza Rice used a visit to Georgia to warn Moscow to stop destablising the country's young democracy. She said: "It needs to be a part of resolving the problem and solving the problem and not contributing to it."

From the Russian perspective, the US-backed government of President Mikhail Saakashvili has already made disturbing advances since it came to power in a democratic Rose Revolution in 2003. Moscow effectively lost a third enclave, Adjaria - it had been an autonomous spot on the Turkish border - soon after Mr Saakashvili took power.

Grouped together, there are 10 separate pockets of frozen conflicts straddling both sides of the Russian border in the Caucuses. But the Russian campaign to maintain external influence stretches far beyond the troubled network of clans and tribes of the Caucasian mountains.

Along with South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia, there is Crimea in the Ukraine, Transdniester in Moldova, Narva in Estonia, and eastern areas of Latvia. All still retain strong links with Moscow, while the greater European nations which they belong have forged ties with the European Union and NATO. The causes for the fault lines are historical and varied, but most of the enclaves are home to substantial populations of ethnic Russian speakers. Many moved there during the Soviet period of "Russification", when Moscow, seeking to ensure its political influence over its satellite republics, despatched large numbers of Russian settlers who then dominated economic and political life.

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the tables then turned, and the Russian-speakers found themselves minority populations in countries that by then wanted nothing to with Moscow ever again. For much of the 1990s, Russia's descent into chaos meant they looked like becoming historical irrelevances, but as Moscow has regained strength again thanks to the oil boom, they have become pawns in the Kremlin's bid to re-assert its territorial influence.

As well as the garrisons of Russian "peacekeeping" troops in the likes of Ossetia and Transdniester, Moscow has also encouraged the growth of organised pro-Kremlin youth movements, Red-hued version of the successive Rose and Orange Revolutions that saw Ukraine and Georgia break decisively from Russia grip in 2003 and 2004. Such movements are there to provide willing rent-a-mobs of agitators whenever the Kremlin deems it necessary, such as last year, when Russian-speaking youths rioted in Estonia over plans to remove a Soviet war memorial. The pointed message to all nations in Russia's "near-abroad" is that ethnic tensions remain a powerful trumpcard that Moscow is always willing to play.

[EvadingGrid]

Aircraft Carriers Deployed

The Russian Aircraft Carrier "The Admiral Kuznetsov" equipped with SU-33, and support ships such as the Moskva are en-route...

(Google "Kuznetsov" for details of Russian Aircraft Carrier)

[Cobra]

Georgian President says 60 Russian GRU Special Forces killed in Battle.

Also, at least 3 Russian pilots have been captured after a Tu-22 Bomber and a Su-25 Ground Attack Jet were downed.

Source. Lenta.ru

[Optimus]

Abkhazia moves to flush out Georgian troops
http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=8815251&nav=8H3x
Associated Press - August 9, 2008 10:33 AM ET

SUKHUMI, Georgia (AP) - Officials say separatist forces in a second breakaway province of Georgia have launched air and artillery strikes aimed at Georgian troops.

An official says Abkhazian (ab-KAY'-zhee-uhn) forces made the move after Georgia took military action against the breakaway province of South Ossetia (ah-SEE'-shuh). He says Abkhazia had to act due to its friendship treaty with South Ossetia.

The official says the goal is to drive Georgian forces out of Kodori Gorge, the only part of Abkhazia under Georgian government control.

Georgia's Security Council secretary confims the bombing of Georgian administrative buildings in the gorge. But he blames the attack on Russia.

[mario_bros]

some news about turkey moving into confict.I don't know if is true ---- coming from polish military discussion group

Interfax
trains with NATO military equipment are coming
into South Ossetia..

equipment is unloaded in Batumi

[Biggs]

Georgian President says 60 Russian GRU Special Forces killed in Battle.

Also, at least 3 Russian pilots have been captured after a Tu-22 Bomber and a Su-25 Ground Attack Jet were downed.

Source. Lenta.ru

hardcore       

[Optimus]

No S. Ossetia Talks Before Georgia Withdraws
The first thing needed is to...make the Georgians return to their positions.` Dmitry Rogozin told reporters in Brussels.
http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=170695



Russia's NATO ambassador said on Saturday talks with Georgia on ending fighting in South Ossetia could only start when Georgian troops ceased fire, and withdrew to the positions they held before the conflict began.
 
"The first thing needed is to...make the Georgians return to their positions and re-establish the status quo we had before," Dmitry Rogozin told reporters in Brussels.

He said there could be "no consultations" until that precondition had been met.

[Biggs]

I have no idea of hwo accurate this is, or if it is just Georgian rhetoric but anyway, (from glp source, no link)

Cnn breaking news Georgian President says Russia has invaded Georgia by land sea and air troops .................................................debka.com estimates 100,00 russian troops on Georgian soil ....................................Russia bombed oil port and oil pipline 1,000,000 barrels oil daily now ceased in tiny GEORGIA ............................................................ .....Anglo Saxon Christians of Georgia were attacked by Ossetia's Muslims; a tiny enclaved muslim separtatist town who joined Russia in the attack against Anglo Saxon Christian Georgians ....................................................Russia bombed Georgia's water elec gas plus oil piplines ..plus civilian apt buildings ..and bombs civilians areas where Georgian Anglo Saon Christian civilians attemp to fire on Russians .................Russia says it will continue to bomb civilian areas of Georgia who are firing on Russan troops.... .. Georgia population 4.5 Million .is no match for Russias best commandos ..............

[Optimus]

Denmark condemns Russian military raids against Georgia
http://mathaba.net/news/?x=601483
Posted: 2008/08/09

Denmark's Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen condemned Russia's military actions against Georgia in the wake of the escalating conflict in the separatist province of South Ossetia, the press reported here Saturday.

Speaking on the sidelines of a party meeting in the Danish city of Odense, Rasmussen said although the reasons for the conflict were complicated, Russia's military raids were "not justified at all." "We have to insist that Georgia's sovereignty is respected," he added.

Rasmussen stressed there was no military solution for the crisis but only a negotiated settlement.

Moscow sent hundreds of troops to South Ossetia and threatened new air assaults on Georgian military bases Saturday as furious fighting raged for a second consecutive day.

An ardent American ally, Georgia launched a major offensive Friday to retake control over South Ossetia.

Russia which enjoy close ties to the region and has deployed peacekeepers there, responded by dispatching troops.

Around 1,600 people have been killed and the death toll is expected to surge, according to Russian media reports.

The latest outbreak of hostilities was the worst since the breakaway province gained de facto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992.

Russian troops moved in as peacekeepers but Tbilisi claims they now support the separatists.

[Optimus]

Moscow ultimatum to Washington: Make Georgia move forces out of South Ossetia
DEBKAfile Special Analysis
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5498
August 9, 2008, 6:01 PM (GMT+02:00)

 
As Russian warplanes struck positions in Georgia’s second breakaway province of Abkhazia, Saturday, Aug. 9, President Dimitry Medvedev told President George W. Bush in a phone call that Georgia must withdraw its forces from South Ossetia for hostilities to end. Its leaders must also sign a legally binding document not to use force.

The virtual ultimatum was delivered in reply to the US president’s call on Russia to respect Georgian sovereign integrity and for both sides to accept international mediation.

After deploying 100,000 troops and armor to occupy most of South Ossetia and warplanes to blast the Georgian town of Gori and Black Sea port of Poti, Russia’s ambassador to NATO said Russia does not consider itself to be in a state of war and accused Georgia of ethnic cleansing.

As they spoke, the Abkhazian foreign minister Sergei Shamba announced that the secessionist province had launched air and artillery strikes to oust Georgian troops from its positions in the Kodori Gorge. Russian jets earlier bombed those positions. The Georgian president said his forces had successfully repelled those attacks.

DEBKAfile’s military analysts: Tiny Georgia with an army of less than 18,000, having been roundly defeated in South Ossetia, cannot hope to withstand the mighty Russian army in Abkhazia, even after initial successes. Therefore, President Mikhail Saakashvili, who was planning to join NATO, must consider both breakaway regions lost to Georgia and gained by Russia.

Moscow has thus achieved payback for the US-NATO success in detaching Kosovo from Serbia and approving its independence. The Russians have also signalled a warning to Ukraine, the Caucasus and Central Asia against joining up with the United States and the NATO bloc in areas which Moscow deems part of its strategic sphere of influence

After the severance of South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia, four follow-up Russian steps may be postulated:

1. The two separatist provinces will proclaim their independence, just like Kosovo.

2. Russia will continue to exercise its overwhelming military and air might to force the pro-American Saakashvili’s capitulation.

3. The Georgian president cannot last long in office after suffering this major loss of territory and national humiliation. Moscow aims to make Washington swallow a pro-Russian successor.

4. Moscow’s South Ossetia-Abkhazia victory against Georgia and its Western backers will serve as an object lesson for Russia’s own secessionist provinces such as Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushettia not to risk defying Russian armed might.

[randge]

you can barely hold bagdad and you think you can win a war with russia on their own turf?

Undeniably true.

And it's also testament to the moral dimension in warfare.

I believe this country could move mountains in a morale cause.  However, the administration that incited this war did so upon premises widely perceived as bankrupt at home as well as abroad. That has an effect on morale on both sides of the conflict. It also has a corrosive influence on the political support at home without which victory is impossible.

Bush took it upon himself to tell outright lies. Now he, and we, are paying for it.

[Optimus]

Russian troops raid Georgian town; scores dead
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hV2N6fVKS5slf10A13Dj_uIdaZ4QD92ER7TG0
By MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI – 19 minutes ago

GORI, Georgia (AP) — Russia sent hundreds of tanks and troops into the separatist province of South Ossetia and bombed Georgian towns Saturday in a major escalation of the conflict that has left scores of civilians dead and wounded.

Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, launched a major offensive Friday to retake control of breakaway South Ossetia. Russia, which has close ties to the province and posts peacekeepers there, responded by sending in armed convoys and military combat aircraft.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters in Moscow that some 1,500 people have been killed, with the death toll rising Saturday.

The figure could not be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the fighting said hundreds of civilians had probably died. They said most of the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, was in ruins, with bodies lying everywhere.

The air and artillery bombardment left the provincial capital without water, food, electricity and gas. Horrified civilians crawled out of the basements into the streets as fighting eased, looking for supplies.

Russian Gen. Vladimir Boldyrev claimed in televised comments Saturday that Russian troops had driven Georgian forces out of the provincial capital. Witnesses confirmed that there was no sign of Georgian soldiers in the streets.

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili proposed a cease-fire Saturday. As part of his proposal, Georgian troops were pulled out of Tskhinvali and had been ordered to stop responding to Russian shelling, said Alexander Lomaia, secretary of his Security Council.

Russia did not immediately respond to Saakashvili's proposal. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had said earlier that Moscow sent troops into South Ossetia to force Georgia into a cease-fire.

Lomaia said there had been direct fighting between Russian and Georgian soldiers on the streets of Tskhinvali. He estimated that Russia sent 2,500 troops into Georgia. The Russian military has not said how many of its troops were deployed.

Russian military aircraft also bombed the Georgian town of Gori on Saturday. An Associated Press reporter who visited Gori shortly afterward saw several apartment buildings in ruins, some still on fire, and scores of dead bodies and bloodied civilians. The elderly, women and children were among the victims.

"Georgia is facing Russia's military aggression," Saakashvili said, noting that Russian forces were attacking areas outside South Ossetia. "Georgian authorities support a cease-fire and separation of the warring parties."

It is the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won de facto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992.

The fighting threatens to ignite a wider war between Russia and Georgia, which accused Russia of bombing its towns, ports and air bases. Georgia, a former Soviet republic with ambitions of joining NATO, has asked the international community to help end what it called Russian aggression.

It also likely will increase tensions between Moscow and Washington, which Lavrov said should bear part of the blame for arming and training Georgian soldiers.

Moscow has said it needs to protect its peacekeepers and civilians in South Ossetia, most of whom have been given Russian passports. Ethnic Ossetians live in the breakaway Georgian province and in the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia.

Overnight, Russian warplanes bombed the Vaziani military base on the outskirts of the Georgian capital and near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said. He also said two other military bases were hit, and that warplanes bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility.

Georgia, meanwhile, said it has shot down 10 Russian planes, including four brought down Saturday, according to Kakha Lomaya, head of Georgia's Security Council.

The first Russian confirmation that its planes had been shot down came Saturday from Russian Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the General Staff, who said two Russian planes were downed. He did not say where or when.

Russian military commanders said 15 peacekeepers have been killed and about 150 wounded. Russian troops went in as peacekeepers but Georgia alleges they now back the separatists.

Russian military spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov accused Georgian troops of killing and wounded Russian peacekeepers when they seized Russian checkpoints. Konashenkov's allegations couldn't be independently confirmed Saturday.

Russia's foreign minister said that Georgia brought the airstrikes upon itself by bombing civilians and Russian peacekeepers, and warned that the small Caucasus country should expect more attacks.

"Whatever side is used to bomb civilians and the positions of peacekeepers, this side is not safe and they should know this," Lavrov said.

Asked whether Russia could bomb the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, Lavrov answered: "I don't think the bombing is coming from Tbilisi, but whatever part of Georgia is used for this aggression is not safe."

It was unclear what might persuade either side to stop shooting. Both claim the battle started after the other side violated a cease-fire that had been declared just hours earlier after a week of sporadic clashes.

Diplomats have issued a flurry of statements calling on both sides to halt the fighting and called for another emergency session of the U.N. Security Council, its second since early Friday morning seeking to prevent an all-out war.

President Bush said Saturday the outbreak of fighting is endangering peace throughout the volatile region, and he urged an end to the deadly outbreak of violence.

"I'm deeply concerned about the situation in Georgia," Bush said in a statement to reporters while attending the Olympics in Beijing. "The attacks are occurring in regions of Georgia far from the zone of conflict in South Ossetia. They mark a dangerous escalation in the crisis.

"The violence is endangering regional peace, civilian lives have been lost and others are endangered. We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a stand-down by all troops. We call for an end to the Russian bombings, and a return by the parties to the status quo of Aug. 6."

Russia, which has granted citizenship to most of the region's residents, appeared to lay much of the responsibility for ending the fighting on Washington.

Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. Georgia has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership — a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili, a U.S.-educated lawyer, long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and have built up ties with Moscow.

Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain. But Saakashvili has called them home in the face of the South Ossetia fighting. The Georgian commander of the brigade in Iraq said Saturday they would leave as soon as transport can be arranged.

[mario_bros]

Photo from Gori city after russian bombing


http://fotogaleri.ntvmsnbc.com/detay.aspx?categoryID=8&galleryID=1503&picID=19398&dp=1

[Cobra]

I have no idea of hwo accurate this is, or if it is just Georgian rhetoric but anyway, (from glp source, no link)

Sounds like crap. Nothing on the Russian wires.

[Aerioch]

And it's also testament to the moral dimension in warfare.

I believe this country could move mountains in a morale cause.  However, the administration that incited this war did so upon premises widely perceived as bankrupt at home as well as abroad. That has an effect on morale on both sides of the conflict. It also has a corrosive influence on the political support at home without which victory is impossible.

Bush took it upon himself to tell outright lies. Now he, and we, are paying for it.

Very well said Randage.

I only question one item.  Is Bush really paying for it?  Other then public opinion what has it really cost him?  I don't think he cares about anything except cock-blocking impeachment proceedings.  He has all ready ruined our economy, international respect, and national defense capability.  He has a compound in Paraguay all ready set-up to retreat to.

[Cobra]

Photo from Gori city after russian bombing


http://fotogaleri.ntvmsnbc.com/detay.aspx?categoryID=8&galleryID=1503&picID=19398&dp=1

Poignant photos.

[David Rothscum]

yep reports of 2000 dead already

btw - does anybody seriously think this is anything other than the work of Brzezinski and co doing exactly what Webster Harplrey said they would do, i.e. shifting US foreign policy focus from Iraq etc to taking on Russia and China in wars of proxy for the geopolitical heart of the globe??

Tarpley said that brzezinski already has taken over from the neocons as the primary driver of US foreign policy, and the very fact that Georgia attacked South Ossetia (Georgia being a client state of the US) is surely proof of this.

yep reports of 2000 dead already

btw - does anybody seriously think this is anything other than the work of Brzezinski and co doing exactly what Webster Harplrey said they would do, i.e. shifting US foreign policy focus from Iraq etc to taking on Russia and China in wars of proxy for the geopolitical heart of the globe??

Tarpley said that brzezinski already has taken over from the neocons as the primary driver of US foreign policy, and the very fact that Georgia attacked South Ossetia (Georgia being a client state of the US) is surely proof of this.

I became convinced of my initial suspicions when I read about Condi's visit in July. I posted the article before in this topic, here's the link: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=52464.msg252548#msg252548
This is Brzezinski trying to put a check on Russian influence, no doubt about it.

[Aerioch]

"Thanks for sending Democracy my way!"

[GoodBush]

http://fotogaleri.ntvmsnbc.com/detay.aspx?categoryID=8&galleryID=1503&picID=19404&dp=7



I just cannot get over the MARPAT uniforms. Look at the guy in the center, he's even wearing the tan boots the Marines wear.

Pick your color and apply this picture to any American city.  I hope this fighting stops.

[Cobra]

Russian jets targeted major oil pipeline-Georgia
09 Aug 2008 14:07:00 GMT
Source: Reuters
TBILISI, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Russian fighter jets targeted the the major Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline which carries oil to the West from Asia but missed, Georgia's Economic Development Minister Ekaterina Sharashidze said on Saturday.

"This clearly shows that Russia has not just targeted Georgian economic outlets but international economic outlets in Georgia," she said at a news briefing.

There have been no independent verifications of Russian jets targeting the BTC pipeline. (Reporting by Margarita Antidze, writing by James Kilner, editing by Jon Boyle)

[David Rothscum]

Is Alex going to do the saturday show he talked about?

[Aerioch]

Russia bombed Georgia's water elec gas plus oil piplines ..plus civilian apt buildings ..and bombs civilians

Shock and Awe !!  The Russians are using the exact same plan as the U.S. in Iraq.

-Destroy infrastructure needed by your enemies defense

-Cripple Economy

-Scare the "useless eaters" into submission

Russia isn't playing games people, they are setting up for the long haul.  BushCo. really upset them.

[EthanAllen_TruthNet Radio]

Georgia issue statement: State of war exists between Georgia and Russia
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09/georgia.ossetia/index.html

[Wanted]

1,500 Reported Killed in Georgia Battle
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/world/europe/10georgia.html?em


GORI, Georgia — Russia and the former Soviet republic of Georgia veered closer to all-out war on Saturday as Russia moved parts of its Black Sea fleet toward Georgia’s coast and intensified air attacks on Georgia, striking two apartment buildings in the city of Gori and clogging roads out of the area with fleeing refugees.

Russia acknowledged that Georgian forces had shot down two Russian warplanes, while a senior Georgian official said the Georgians had destroyed 10 Russian jets. Russian armored vehicles continued to stream into South Ossetia, the pro-Russian region that won de facto autonomy from Georgia in the early 1990s.

The fighting that began when Georgian forces tried to retake the capital of the South Ossetia, Tskinvali, appeared to be developing into the worst clashes between Russia and a foreign military since the 1980s war with Afghanistan.

Russian officials said that 1,500 civilians had been killed in South Ossetia and that 12 Russian troops had died. A Georgian government spokesman said that 60 civilians had been killed in Gori in the two apartment buildings, which were located near a tank base. Each side’s figures were impossible to confirm independently.

In Beijing, where President Bush and Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin were attending the Olympic Games, Mr. Bush directly called on Russia to stop bombing Georgian territory, expressing strong support for Georgia in a direct challenge to Russia’s leaders.

“Georgia is a sovereign nation, and its territorial integrity must be respected,” Mr. Bush said in a hastily arranged appearance at his hotel. “We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a stand down by all troops. We call for the end of the Russian bombings.”

The Russian defense ministry said 100 planeloads of airborne troops will be brought to northern Russia and marched into the “zone of hostilities.” Georgian officials said at least 2,500 Russian troops were already in the country.

On Saturday, Russia notified Western governments that its was moving elements of its Black Sea fleet to Ochamchira, a small port in the disputed enclave, a senior Western official said.

A senior Georgian security official said that Russian ships were moving toward Georgia’s Black Sea Cost in order to land ground troops, and that 12 Russian jets were bombing the Kadori Gorge in Abhazia, another breakaway region that hugs the Black Sea.

T he de facto government of pro-Russian Abkhazia asked United Nations peacekeepers to depart from their posts in the Kodori Gorge, a small mountainous area that Georgia had reclaimed by force in 2006.

The United Nations withdrew. Aerial bombardments of the gorge began soon after, the official said.

“The record is crystal clear,” the official said. “Russia has launched a full-scale military operation, on air, land and sea. We have entered a totally new realm — politically, legally and diplomatically.”

Georgia’s President, Mikheil Saakashvili, declared that Georgia was in a state of war, ordering government offices to work round the clock.

The senior Georgian official, Alexander Lomaya, secretary of the country’s National Security Council, said that 50 Russian warplanes had flown over Georgia on Saturday, a tenfold increase over the number of sorties seen Friday.

Russian authorities said their forces had retaken the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, from Georgian control during the morning hours , while Georgian officials said they had withdrawn from the area voluntarily.

Twelve Russian troops were killed, according to Anatoly Nogovitsyn, a Colonel General in the Ministry of Defense . Mr. Nogovitsyn was asked whether Russia was in a state of war with Georgia, but he denied that. Russian officials said their forces had entered Tskhinvali to aid Russian peacekeepers based there who had come under sustained fire from Georgian troops on Thursday.

Shota Utiashvili, an official at the Georgian Interior Ministry, called the attack on Gori a “major escalation,” and said he expected attacks to increase over the course of Saturday.

In the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, wounded fighters and civilians began to arrive in hospitals, most with shrapnel or mortar wounds. Several dozen names had been posted outside the hospital.

In a news conference, the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Georgian attacks on Russian citizens “amounted to ethnic cleansing.”


Mr. Lavrov said Russian airstrikes targeted military staging grounds. Asked whether Russia is prepared to fight “all-out war” in Georgia, he said: “No. Georgia, I believe, started a war in Southern Ossetia, and we are responsible to keep the peace.”

He said Moscow has been working intensely with foreign leaders, in particular the United states. “We have been appreciative of the American efforts to pacify the hawks in Tbilisi. Apparently these efforts have not succeeded. Quite a number of officials in Washignton were really shocked when all this happened.”

In Beijing, Mr. Bush said the United States was working with European allies to seek an international mediation in the simmering conflict between Russia and Georgia over the breakaway region of South Ossetia. He noted that administration officials had been in contact with officials in both countries “at all levels of government,” though neither side has so far showed a willingness to compromise.

Mr. Bush referred particularly to attacks spreading beyond South Ossetia, a reference to the Russian air strikes in parts of Georgia itself. “The attacks are occurring in regions of Georgia far from the zone of conflict in South Ossetia,” he said. “They mark dangerous escalation in the crisis. The violence is endangering regional peace, civilian lives are being lost, and others are in danger.”

He discussed the fighting with Mr. Putin during a social lunch at the Great Hall of the People on Friday and again at the opening ceremonies. (The White House would did not disclose the details of what they said.)

After the opening ceremonies and through the day on Saturday, Mr. Bush conferred with his senior advisors about how to respond.

A White House spokesman, Gordon D. Johndroe, said that Mr. Bush had spoken by telephone this evening with the Russian president, Dmitri A. Medvedev, as well as Mr. Saakashvili. He said the president “reiterated the United States position to both leaders.”

Mr. Bush’s remarks, though brief, were striking in how he put the onus on Russia to halt the violence. He has sought to maintain a cooperative relationship with Russia under Mr. Putin and now Mr. Medvedev and has never before so flatly stated what he expected them to do on any issue. Referring to international efforts to mediate the conflict, he declared, “Russia needs to support these efforts so that peace can be restored as quickly as possible.”

Pentagon officials said late Friday that the Georgian government had officially requested assistance in airlifting home the approximately 2,000 Georgian troops now in Iraq. The request was under review, and standard procedures would indicate that the United States Government would honor the request, officials said.

Russian military units including tank, artillery and reconnaissance arrived in Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, on Saturday to help Russian peacekeepers there, in response to overnight shelling by Georgian forces, state television in Russia reported, citing the Ministry of Defense. Ground assault aircraft were also mobilized, the Ministry said.

A senior Georgian official said by telephone on Saturday that Russian bombers were flying over Georgia and that the presidential offices and residence in Tbilisi had been evacuated. The official added that Georgian forces still had control of Tskhinvali.

Neither side showed any indication of backing down. Mr. Putin of Russia declared that “war has started,” and Mr. Saakashvili accused Russia of a “well-planned invasion” and mobilized Georgia’s military reserves. There were signs as well of a cyberwarfare campaign, as Georgian government Web sites were crashing intermittently during the day.

The escalation risked igniting a renewed and sustained conflict in the Caucasus region, an important conduit for the flow of oil from the Caspian Sea to world markets and an area where conflict has flared for years along Russia’s borders, most recently in Chechnya.

The military incursion into Georgia marked a fresh sign of Kremlin confidence and resolve, and also provided a test of the capacities of the Russian military, which Mr. Putin had tried to modernize and re-equip during his two presidential terms.

Frictions between Georgia and South Ossetia, which has declared de facto independence, have simmered for years, but intensified when Mr. Saakashvili came to power in Georgia and made national unification a centerpiece of his agenda. Mr. Saakashvili, a close American ally who has sought NATO membership for Georgia, is loathed at the Kremlin in part because he had positioned himself as a spokesman for democracy movements and alignment with the West.

Earlier this year Russia announced that it was expanding support for the separatist regions. Georgia labeled the new support an act of annexation.

[Sue]

http://www.ruvr.ru/main.php?lng=eng&rt=196&p
Here is the link to the VOR English Service website.

[chris jones]

Was that Baghdad, or Georgia, those pictures, it gets confusing.

Not meant to be funny, war is a crime, killing for the Goverment is a crime unless in self defense, meaning if invaded.

I has been said , show me who is profiting from war, and I will show you how to stop it. My memory must be slipping, but I think it was Ike.

[DutchHandsome]

The people in the capitol made a peace chain
yesterday evening.  Nothing has been reported on it.



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=87e_1218264931

[Protean]

Is Alex going to do the saturday show he talked about?

The show to listen to today would be World Crisis Radio with Webster Tarpley on GCN Live (11 am Pacific Time / 1900 GMT), he has been on Zbigniew Brzezinski's tail for sometime now..
http://www.gcnlive.com/Programs/WorldCrisisRadio/Program.html

Or you can listen later when they post it On-Demand (3-6 hours after the initial broadcast)
http://www.gcnlive.com/Programs/WorldCrisisRadio/On_Demand.html

Tarpley's - Brzezinski false flag forecast articles:
http://www.rense.com/general82/ff.htm
http://anomalynews.com/2008/07/23/webster-tarpley-historical-changes-in-false-flag-terrorism-deepjournal/

[Wanted]

Has Georgia Overreached in Ossetia?
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1831073,00.html


The victims, of course, are the civilians of Georgia and its breakaway South Ossetia region, caught in the escalating battle between the Georgian military and South Ossetian separatists and their more powerful Russian backer. Hundreds are alleged to have been killed in two days of heavy fighting that has shown no sign of abating by late Saturday, and thousands more are confronting the resulting humanitarian crisis. But the battle that began to rage in Georgia as world leaders were treated to the pyrotechnics of the Beijing Olympics' opening ceremony may be the most serious challenge to the post-Cold War balance of power since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Georgia and South Ossetia have been squared off in an uneasy peace for more than a decade, now, since the region broke away from Georgia in the early '90s, following its independence from the Soviet Union. After a protracted war that killed around 1,000 people and displaced thousands more ethnic Georgians from the territory, Georgia was compelled to sign a cease-fire agreement that left South Ossetia — a tiny mountainous territory a few football fields smaller than Rhode Island — effectively autonomous, but unable to secure recognition by the international community. Still, Russia has protected the region, providing finance, military protection and even passports, and has used South Ossetia's secession, together with that of Abkhazia, another breakaway region of Georgia, as leverage against Tblisi's desire to join NATO. Moscow sees Georgia's move towards NATO as part of a strategy of hostile encirclement of Russia by Western powers, and when the Western alliance enabled Kosovo's secession from Serbia earlier this year despite the fact that its independence is not recognized by the United Nations, many analysts expected Russia to retaliate by further stoking the fires of secession in Georgia.

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili has a different agenda — he won election in 2004 on promise to recover the breakaway territories, and to join NATO. So closely has he courted the U.S. that Georgia today has 2,000 troops in Iraq, the third-largest contingent after the U.S. and Britain, although Tbilisi has now indicated it will have to bring at least half of them home to deal with the security crisis in South Ossetia. But the Georgian leader's latest actions will be read by some as designed to force the hand of NATO members reluctant to press the issue of handing membership to Georgia for fear of provoking a Russian backlash. So, after a couple of days of skirmishing along the unofficial border between his forces and those of the separatists, the Georgian leader launched a full-blown invasion whose aim, his government said, was to "restore constitutional order," that is, control by the central government, in South Ossetia. Plainly, the offensive was a gamble, because Saakashvili should have had little doubt about Moscow's readiness to defend the separatists. Moreover, NATO officials had repeatedly warned the Georgian government against launching any attempt to resolve the dispute through military means. Still, he pressed forward.

On Friday, Georgian forces shelled South Ossetian population centers and launched a ground invasion deep into the territory. By noon, news reports announced that they had immobilized much of the opposition and had taken control of South Ossetia's capital, Tskhinvali. The city came under attack by aircraft, artillery and armor, and South Ossetia officials claimed that more than 1,000 people had been killed. Still, the lightning offensive appeared to have put Georgia back in charge of the breakaway region, and made good on Saakashvili's campaign promise. The offensive touched off wild celebrations in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi. "Georgians are by nature extremely patriotic and this event has galvanized them together," David Womble, National director of WorldVision, a Christian humanitarian NGO with operations in the country, told TIME. At one point, he said, thousands and thousands of cars filled the streets of the capital, honking their horns and with their passengers waving Georgian flags. Says Womble, "It was as if Georgia had won the World Cup and was celebrating."

Russia's initial response was to convene an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council, hoping to pass a resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire between Georgia and South Ossetia. But the Russian draft resolution was contentious. The United State and others objected to language that appeared to exempt Russia from condemnation over the use of force. Russia is frequently blamed for destabilizing the region to its own benefit and using its peacekeeping force as a cover for maintaining a military presence in the region. The Security Council failed to agree on a resolution, and the following day, as Russian media began to report casualties among Russian troops and citizens in South Ossetia, a stern-faced President Dmitri Medvedev appeared on prime-time television to make a chilling call to arms: "I am obligated to defend the life and honor of Russian citizens, wherever they may be," he said. "We will not let those responsible for the death of our people go unpunished." And with that, Russian armor and artillery began pouring in to South Ossetia, and its aircraft began bombing Georgian positions. By Saturday, there were conflicting reports over which side controlled South Ossetia, but Russian planes had pounded the nearby Georgian town of Gori, in raids that Georgian officials said had killed 60 people.

Whether or not the effect was intended, Moscow now appears to be using Saakashvili's strategic overreach to teach a brutal lesson not only to the Georgians, but also to other neighbors seeking to align themselves with the West against Russia. Saakashvili is appealing for Western support, based on international recognition of South Ossetia as sovereign Georgian territory. "A full-scale aggression has been launched against Georgia," he said, calling for Western intervention. But given NATO's previous warnings, its commitments elsewhere and the reluctance of many of its member states to antagonize Russia, it remains unlikely that Georgia will get more than verbal support from its desired Western protectors. Saakashvili appears to have both underestimated the scale of the Russian backlash, and overestimated the extent of support he could count on from the U.S. and its allies. The Georgian leader may have expected Washington to step up to his defense, particularly given his country's centrality to the geopolitics of energy — Georgia is the only alternative to Russia as the route for a pipeline carrying oil westward from Azerbaijan. But Russia is not threatening to overrun Georgia. Moscow claims to be simply using its military to restore the secessionist boundary, which in the process would deal Saakashvili a humiliating defeat.

Although its outcome is yet to be decided, there's no win-win outcome to the offensive launched by Georgia with the goal of recovering South Ossetia. Either Saakashvili wins, or Moscow does. Unless the U.S. and its allies demonstrate an unlikely appetite for confrontation with an angry and resurgent Russia in its own backyard, the smart money would be on Moscow. With reporting by Sasha Levine/Moscow

[David Rothscum]

The show to listen to today would be World Crisis Radio with Webster Tarpley on GCN Live (11 am Pacific Time / 1900 GMT), he has been on Zbigniew Brzezinski's tail for sometime now..
http://www.gcnlive.com/Programs/WorldCrisisRadio/Program.html

Or you can listen later when they post it On-Demand (3-6 hours after the initial broadcast)
http://www.gcnlive.com/Programs/WorldCrisisRadio/On_Demand.html

Tarpley's - Brzezinski false flag forecast articles:
http://www.rense.com/general82/ff.htm
http://anomalynews.com/2008/07/23/webster-tarpley-historical-changes-in-false-flag-terrorism-deepjournal/

Thanks, you rock. Tarpley is getting big now that everyone can see his predictions coming true.

[David Rothscum]

Some updates:
Tskhinvali doesn't exist anymore.
Georgia accuses Russia of ethnic cleansing, first it was just Russia accusing Georgia of ethnic cleansing.

[Wanted]

Iran urges immediate ceasefire in South Ossetia

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/10/content_9112445.htm


TEHRAN, Aug. 9 (Xinhua) -- Iran Saturday called for an immediate ceasefire in Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia where the ongoing conflict has reportedly killed 1,500 people, the official IRNA news agency reported.

    "The Islamic Republic of Iran is concerned about the current conflict in the South Ossetia which claimed the lives of many defenseless civilians," Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hassan Qashqavi said.

    Calling for an immediate truce to rescue civilians, Qashqavi expressed the hope that the belligerent rivals would exercise vigilance to help resolve the issue through peaceful means.

    He warned that continuation of such crises could leave negative impacts on the stability and security of Caucasus as well as the entire region.

    Iran is to help restore peace and stability to the region and spares no efforts to resolve the crisis peacefully, the spokesman said.

    South Ossetia declared independence from Georgia in the early 1990s. Since then it was governed by a secessionist government although its independence has not been internationally recognized.

    On Friday, Georgian troops began military actions against South Ossetia's forces in an attempt to re-establish control over the region. In response, Russian troops moved into the region to fight the Georgian forces and its warplanes bombed the region.

    Russia said the two-day conflict has killed 1,500 people and that the death toll is expected to rise.

[David Rothscum]

Anyone else listening to GCN right now? "That's one of the reasons the doctor eh.. the dollar is starting to fall right now." Bit of a Freudian slip right there. Anyway sorry for going of topic.

[Chocolaty]

Georgia says may pull out of Beijing Games
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Olympics/idUSSP11093420080809
Sat Aug 9, 2008 1:48pm EDT
By Sean Maguire

BEIJING (Reuters) - Georgia may pull its 35-strong Olympic team out of the Beijing Games because of Russian military attacks on its territory, the country's National Olympic Committee told Reuters on Saturday.



"We're talking about it now. It will be the decision of the president of the country (Mikheil Saakashvili)," spokesman Giorgi Tchanishvili said in the Chinese capital.

The Georgia conflict has knocked the Olympics down page, dimming some of China's glory. The vast Asian nation's hopes for a trouble-free games were dashed on Saturday by the daylight murder of the U.S. volleyball coach's father-in-law.

Chinese hopes of quick wins were partly met as competition got under way in earnest. A woman's weightlifting gold and men's shooting gold came their way, though they lost the first medal to be awarded after the Chinese favorite buckled under pressure.

Calls by the International Olympic Committee for a traditional Games truce to be honored have gone unheard, in a reminder of the limits of sport's ability to bring nations into harmony.

Russian forces have widened an offensive against Georgia to force Tbilisi's troops out of the breakaway Caucasus region of South Ossetia, whose inhabitants are loyal to Moscow.

Russian armor and troops have poured across the border and its planes have hit bombed targets far from the combat zone in what U.S. President George W. Bush called a dangerous escalation.

Georgia's parliament has declared a state of war, leaving the country's athletes anxious and uncertain. Its Olympic team urged the international community to help end the violence.

The Olympics has suffered boycotts in the past, but it would be highly unusual for a team to pull out during the Games.

Among the most high profile withdrawals was one by several African nations a day after the start of the 1976 Montreal Olympics in protest over a New Zealand rugby tour of South Africa, at the time of the apartheid regime.

Earlier on Saturday the International Olympic Committee said the escalating conflict was a sad reality with the Games essentially being a symbol of peace.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon had also issued an appeal calling on all warring nations to honor a traditional truce during the Games which opened on Friday.

"We can only bring the ideal of how sport can bring people together. It is a very complex issue and it is not for the IOC to give a perspective on what has been happening," IOC spokeswoman Giselle Davies said.

"It is not what the world wants to see. It is contrary to what the Olympic ideal stands for. The sad reality is that there are a number of countries (at the Olympics) that are in conflict," she said.

U.S. President George W. Bush, who is in Beijing for the opening of the Games, said Russian attacks on Georgia marked a "dangerous escalation" of the crisis and urged Moscow to halt the bombing immediately.

[randge]

Is Bush really paying for it?

Good question.

To a vain, lame duck president, hopelessly clinging to what few shards of "legacy" that remain in his misbegotten term of office, Russia's drubbing of Saakashvili must be an unbearable humiliation.  I'm sure that he's shitting his britches.

But paying for it??

No. Not in the way you probably mean and in the way that a lot of us would like to see.  He's looking forward to a long, comfortable retirement.

Maybe they'll even let him run for office in Paraguay.

[The_lizard]

Why does Georgia use the Templar flag of Jerusalem







interesting.

[David Rothscum]

I think I understand what Georgia's doing. Perhaps they wanted Russia to attack, only to have the entire planet shout "territorial integrity". Let's face it, what can Russia do without risking angering the whole planet? Georgia just has to sit this out, it's not like Russia is going to invade the rest of Georgia.

[ChristopherL]

new war, USA, Israel - selling weapon & equip -> getting money. nothing strange. there are will not be peace talks to solve problem . washinghton has already  decided that georgia must attack osetia.

PROVE IT.