GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE

[Biggs]

this is what geopolitical power games from scum like Brzezinski & co really look like

short video -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7551291.stm

[ConcordeWarrior]

Thank you for your contributions to this thread mario_bros and the other posters.
The situation is getting rather interesting... 

[mario_bros]

Now is conifirmed info ---- is not a general of 58th army , is commandant of russian peacekeeping forces in ossetia.Russians lost a lot of equipment but forgeorgian side.............is gigantic.One of georgian panzer column (15 T-72 and BMP-2) was destroyed by russians (probably by using 9P140 Uragan MLRS).

[1776blues]

Forgive me if this has been posted, but has anyone seen the timelines of day one and two?

Chronicle of War in South Ossetia: first day
http://209.85.171.104/translate_c?hl=nl&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://lenta.ru/articles/2008/08/08/ossetia/&usg=ALkJrhhRMGFiEOUTllU3ps7ex6YYIcME-g

Chronicle of War in South Ossetia: second day

http://209.85.171.104/translate_c?hl=nl&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://lenta.ru/articles/2008/08/09/ossetia/&usg=ALkJrhimEyJ8-sl9Toxej-83FxxTc7O8EQ

[Biggs]

this is what the pieces on a chessboard look like in real life (this is the clean censored version we are allowed to see')

[Chocolaty]

Russian news agency "War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA"
http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/09-08-2008/106046-russia_georgia-0
09.08.2008

The US administration urged for an immediate cease-fire in the conflict between Russia and Georgia over the unrecognized republic of South Ossetia.



In the meantime, Russian officials believe that it was the USA that orchestrated the current conflict. The chairman of the State Duma Committee for Security, Vladimir Vasilyev, believes that the current conflict is South Ossetia is very reminiscent to the wars in Iraq and Kosovo.

“The things that were happening in Kosovo, the things that were happening in Iraq – we are now following the same path. The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. South Ossetian defense officials used to make statements about imminent aggression from Georgia, but the latter denied everything, whereas the US Department of State reloaded not comments on the matter. In essence, they have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals. They are responsible for this. The world community will learn about it,” the official said.

In the meantime, it became known that the Georgian troops conducted volley-fire cleansings of several South Ossetian settlements, where people’s houses were simply leveled.

“The number of victims with women, children and elderly people among them, can be counted in hundreds and even thousands,” a source from South Ossetian government in the capital of Tskhinvali said.

The head of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Sergei Lavrov, told reporters that Georgia’s actions in South Ossetia question its consistency as a state and as aresponsible member of the international community, Interfax reports.

"Civilians, including women, children and elderly people are dying in South Ossetia. In addition to that, Georgia conducts ethnic scouring in South Ossetian villages. The situation in South Ossetia continues to worsen every hour. Georgia uses military hardware and heavy arms against people. They shell residential quarters of Tskhinvali [the capital] and other settlements. They bomb the humanitarian convoys. The number of refugees continues to rise – the people try to save their lives, the lives of their children and relatives. A humanitarian disaster is gathering pace,” Russia’s Foreign Minister said.

The minister added that the Georgian administration ignored the appeal from the UN General Assembly to observe the Olympic truce during the Beijing Olympics.

“The Georgian administration has found the use to its arms, which they have been purchasing during the recent several years,” Lavrov said. “The fact that Georgian peacemakers in the structure of joint peacemaking forces opened the fire at their Russian comrades from one and the same contingent speaks for itself, I think,” the minister added.
   
“Now it is clear to us why Georgia never accepted Russia’s offer to sign a legal document not to use force for the regulation of the South Ossetian conflict,” Lavrov said. “Not so long ago, before the military actions in South Ossetia, Georgia’s President Saakashvili said that there was no point in such a requirement because Georgia would not use force against its people, as he said. It just so happens that it is using it,” Sergei Lavrov said.

Sergei Lavrov believes that the international community should stop turning a blind eye on Georgia’s active purchase of arms.

“We have repeatedly warned that the international community should not turn a blind eye on massive purchases of offensive arms, in which the Georgian administration has been involved during the recent two years,” Lavrov said.

[ConcordeWarrior]

A strange coincidence that it all started at the same time with the the Beijing Olympics when China is keeping busy with their own thing.

[gabba2k7]

georgian official  is really good apprentices.
so the people from biggest diplomatic building of US Embassy (read - Georgian real rulers) is working hard.

07/08/08
Saakashvilly said (some hours before his forces starts to attack Chinval) - that georgia will not attack S.Osetia [I think this message was broadcasted and after that - other message - from "3" point of this my post]

"News" and "show" making

1. West press/mass media (further -west) was not announce the war beginning and dont show to people 1st most bloody night of the conflict (when Chinval was attacked by georgian mortars, artillery and aircrafts) but faster as it can west start to talk about russian tanks which entered rather ruined Chinval [fyi - relax, they will not enter Georgia end conquer it. Russia dont want to conquer USA territory *LOL*]

"Russian is comming", "Russian invasion" ... etc... Such slogans still working...

2. West shows u mortars, artillery attack video on Georgia, but said that its Osetians separatists attack !!! Nice? Yeah! [I wonder why Georgia\USA have not found nuclear and chemical weapon in Osetia? *LOL* ]

Who cares about discrepancy of picture and the facts ?

CNN can tell u, that the capital of georgia (or georgia cities/towns) is under attack (i think CNN means - Russian Army attack), or 1,000 (or 10,000, or 100,000 *LOL*) georgian civilians dead - who cares? *LOL*
First time - paste/announce. In best way - there will be disproof, when nobody can see it. somewhere in last page with minor type ;-) )

3
Then west people see the pathos Saakashvilly performance, the pathos patriotic reference to the Georgian nation...talking about evil aggressor Russia...And we hear that small peaceful democratic Georgia have to answer the aggressors!

4. cnn,bbc,skynews...wash_post,wallstreetjournal,guardians,financialtimes...not only TV and press are used.
internet blogs are in the game too. producing the certain "truth" and cultivating hatred to Russia...
viva la information era/century

bonus fun
Saakashvilly:  Now it is not  only business of Georgia. It is encroachment on America, on its values, - was declared by him. - we - the freedom-loving nation, and our freedom now under blow.

5. some minutes ago have watched new Saakashvilly speech in CNN-show with blonde woman reporter, who are very worried about evil Russian plan to destroy georgia (cauze saakashvilly said such). She started speched with some worlds like "But mr. Saakashvilly said <...> !" [god bless this man... the Holy Truth speaks using his lips *LOL*... If not Saakashvilly - how CNN will work? *LOL* How Will CNN accuse Russia in all Earth sins without St.Michael??? *LOL*]

ps: eat popcorn, watch olympic games and get CNN/BBC/(etc) bullshit about peaceful georgia.

_________
bonus FYI
•1600 dead in Chinval (not GEORGIA)
•the population of S.Osetia - with Russian citizenship [in the majority]
•georgia and S.osetia have peace agreement(which was easy broken by night bombing of Chinval)
•russian peacemakers are controlling the agreement observance (for some moment after georgian invasion to S.Osetia - trying not to counteracting Georgian aggression on their and S.Osetia forces... but this time it is impossible)
•the international law is - that peacemakers cant be attacked! but as u can see (or as you,west,  cant see *LOL*) they have been attacked...and i have to trust - that it is not only by casual hits [georgia said - they are not attacking peacemakers...well...ok...but 15+ peacemakers are dead...70 injured....]
•there is no russian forces on Georgia territory, and i think (and hope) - they will not be in georgia.
[ofcourse there is Rus.forces in S.Osetia, but it is not equal "Georgia"]
•To render(open) fire on Georgia territory (on war/military positions) from the territory of S.Osetia by russian forces is admissible and possible. And it was done. It is better than look how russian peacemakers and civils being killed.

[The_lizard]

A strange coincidence that it all started at the same time with the the Beijing Olympics when China is keeping busy with their own thing.

What does china have to do with anything? I don't know how old you are but Russia can basically choose to do whatever they want and their isn't a damn thing really that any country can do about it. Russia can sit at a table and choose to stop or take whatever they want. i don't think there is going to be a georgia to much longer, google probably took the georgia maps offline to re-draw them.

Also, president Mikhail Saakashvili is completely F**king bonkers. Who declares war on Russia.. seriously, besides Napoleon and Hilter.

[Cobra]

The Russian military isn't that great. It's big but poorly trained with very young conscripts and with rampant corruption --- so is US ARMY. Us army never fall in ambush ? How many times in Iraq ?   .The true is some russian units are very poor , but some like 58th ,VDV or Specnaz units are in very good condition . Most of $ goes to Russian nuclear strategic forces .

Of course but overall the US military is very well trained and equipped if only because of the vast sums of money poured into it. I'm sure Russia's military has improved over the last 8-10 years but the constant fighting in Chechnya, corruption, and conscription is what's holding them back.

I'm not impressed by Russia beating up on Georgia. If that is even the case.

[Cobra]

What does china have to do with anything? I don't know how old you are but Russia can basically choose to do whatever they want and their isn't a damn thing really that any country can do about it. Russia can sit at a table and choose to stop or take whatever they want. i don't think there is going to be a georgia to much longer, google probably took the georgia maps offline to re-draw them.

What?

There will still be a Georgia. If Russia wants a surefire way of getting the US Air Force and Navy involved in the conflict is to intimate that they want to annex Georgia. However, that's not their goal.

Russia's goal is to show Georgia that Russia is still the dominant power in the region and that most of the west will not fight for Georgia interests.

[The_lizard]

What?

There will still be a Georgia. If Russia wants a surefire way of getting the US Air Force and Navy involved in the conflict is to intimate that they want to annex Georgia. However, that's not their goal.

The US can't do a damn thing, and trust me Russia doesn't care 2 shits about the US airforce. Russia is a country with an army and airforce and navy it's not iraq with some little militia.

Russia can shut off europes gas and roll their 20,000 tanks into eroupe and take the whole continent if they wanted to.

[mario_bros]

20th Guards Army is entering Ossetia .So now we will see a fight.

[Aaron]

I'm not impressed by Russia beating up on Georgia. If that is even the case.

Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers first, I don't blame Russia one bit for retaliating.

[Triadtropz]

The US can't do a damn thing, and trust me Russia doesn't care 2 shits about the US airforce. Russia is a country with an army and airforce and navy it's not iraq with some little militia.

I agree russia has a fighting force, so the US can and will do nothing..

[Real Truth]

I agree russia has a fighting force, so the US can and will do nothing..

no oil to gain

[Cobra]

The US can't do a damn thing, and trust me Russia doesn't care 2 shits about the US airforce. Russia is a country with an army and airforce and navy it's not iraq with some little militia.

Russia can shut off europes gas and roll their 20,000 tanks into eroupe and take the whole continent if they wanted to.

hahaha. C'mon now. I'm no fan of the US war machine but comparing a force that has 100's billions of dollars pumped into it with a force that only about 10 years ago had problems flying training missions because a lack of fuel is naive.

Yep. Russia can take over Europe if they wanted too.  

[The_lizard]

What?

There will still be a Georgia. If Russia wants a surefire way of getting the US Air Force and Navy involved in the conflict is to intimate that they want to annex Georgia. However, that's not their goal.

Russia's goal is to show Georgia that Russia is still the dominant power in the region and that most of the west will not fight for Georgia interests.

Your not getting the fact that georgia has made a formal deceleration of war against Russia, That means if they lose Russia isn't just going to spank them like a child, they are going to take the country.

[Triadtropz]

no oil to gain

ya that also..the US only steals assets from unarmed countrys, with their fighting forces.. whether it be oil, heroin or whatever..

[Sub-X]

EU diplomats fly out to stop Georgia-Russia war
http://euobserver.com/9/26595
9 August 2008

EU and US diplomats are arriving in Georgia on Saturday (9 August) to try to broker a ceasefire in a fast-escalating conflict between Georgia and Russia, after fighting intensified and spread overnight, with casualties mounting despite international appeals.

Russian jets have bombed the town of Gori near Tbilisi and oil installations in the southern Georgian port of Poti. Georgia has evacuated government buildings in the capital and president Mikhail Saakashvili has moved to a "safe location," where he formally asked parliament to impose martial law.

Meanwhile, Russian tanks and Georgian armour continued to pound each other inside the breakaway Georgian republic of South Ossetia, with both sides making wildly different claims over who controls the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali.

Georgia says 30 of its men have been killed, while Russia says 15 of its soldiers are dead. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov estimated that over 1,500 people, mostly civilians, have been killed, with Tskhinvali in ruins and refugees streaming north across the Russian border.

The EU delegation is being led by South Caucasus envoy Peter Semneby, with the US sending its top South Caucasus diplomat, Matthew Bryza. Lithuanian foreign minister Petras Vaitiekunas is also going on a separate, fact-finding mission for the EU.

The French EU presidency says it has had "multiple contacts" and is "in liaison with all the protagonists" to try and stop the fighting, while EU top diplomat Javier Solana has spoken by phone with the Georgian and Russian foreign ministers.

Diplomatic solution difficult

Prospects for a diplomatic solution remain uncertain, however, after a second meeting of the UN security council on Friday failed to agree on a ceasefire resolution, with the US and the UK at odds with Russia on the wording of the text.

France, Germany, the UK and NATO have all urged an immediate end to hostilities, but steered clear of apportioning blame. The US statement was the most hawkish, "deploring" Russia's use of bombers and missiles as a "dangerous and disproportionate escalation" and calling for the withdrawal of Russian troops.

The shooting began on 4 August between Georgia and South Ossetian separatists, in what at first looked like just another skirmish in a so-called "frozen conflict" that dates back to 1991, when South Ossetia began a war of independence during the break-up of the Soviet Union.

But the rebels kept firing on ethnic Georgian villages in South Ossetia all week. On Friday morning, Georgia launched an offensive to "restore constitutional order" and capture the separatist capital. Hours later, Russia reacted by sending tanks across the Georgian border and ordering air strikes against its small neighbour.

In the broader context, Russia has long-supported the South Ossetian separatists by smuggling arms, handing out Russian passports and stationing 2,500 Russian "peacekeepers" in South Ossetia, in what Georgia sees as a Russian effort to stop it from joining NATO and to unseat its pro-western government.

Who is to blame?

Some analysts are blaming Georgia for the current crisis, saying its attempt to retake Tskhinvali has misjudged the international mood and has destroyed its chances of joining the North Atlantic military alliance.

"He [president Saakashvili] is in big danger of losing the cachet he built up for himself in being pro-western and the restraint he has often shown in the face of provocation by Russia," London's Royal Institute of International Affairs expert, James Nixey, told Reuters.

"I don't think he can count on the [US] cavalry riding in," Brussels' EU-Russia Centre analyst James Cameron said. "You don't bring in [to NATO] a country that has this sort of trouble," RAND Corporation expert and former US ambassador to NATO, Robert Hunter, told Bloomberg.

European Council on Foreign Relations analyst, Nicu Popescu, said the timing of Georgia's assault on Tskhinvali - the same day as the opening of the Beijing Olympics - may be significant. "It might be a signal to the Russians saying that the [2014] Sochi Olympics will not go the way Russia wants if there is no progress on the settlement."

Geopolitics in play

Others say the surprise summer war was engineered in Moscow.

"The goals behind Moscow's operation are threefold," Jamestown.org analyst Vladimir Socor explained. "To re-establish the authority of Russian-controlled negotiating and 'peacekeeping' formats...to capture Georgian-controlled villages in South Ossetia [and] to dissuade NATO from approving a membership action plan for Georgia."

"The Russians want a more direct confrontation with the west and I hope the Bush administration has the wisdom not to give them that satisfaction," Globalsecurity.org analyst John Pike told newswires.

"What is being decided here is whether bordering Russia and simultaneously being a US ally is a suicidal combination. Whichever way this works out, the dynamics of the entire region are about to be turned on their head," Strategic Forecasting Inc said in a flash report.

[mario_bros]

Russia is a country with an army and airforce and navy it's not iraq with some little militia. --- yes, but............they have lot of problems with equipment and servicemen etc... Conflict with USA will be the nuclear one , even russian military doctrine says ,that in the time of conventional attack ,russia can use nuclear weapon. . Only few of russian army are in good condition.Hope this will change in the future.

[Triadtropz]

I still say the russians are trying to expose the weakness of georgias allies...everyones calling for russia to stop bombing..are they listening?..nope its bombs away.

[The_lizard]

hahaha. C'mon now. I'm no fan of the US war machine but comparing a force that has 100's billions of dollars pumped into it with a force that only about 10 years ago had problems flying training missions because a lack of fuel is naive.

Yep. Russia can take over Europe if they wanted too.  

yeah, do some research smart guy. check out some technological concepts like plasma stealth. Russia can easily take mainland Europe. Russia has more gas and money than the US has plus it's not scattered all over the place.

[Cobra]

Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers first, I don't blame Russia one bit for retaliating.

I don't blame them either but I don't see why everyone is so Pro-Russia in this thread. They're not innocent here either. They ahve their own imperial ambitions of restoring Soviet era dominion over the region.

I agree russia has a fighting force, so the US can and will do nothing..

Did anyone here honestly think that the US, even for one second, thought about entering the war on Georgia's behalf? What's this famed fighting force that Russia possesses?  Full of conscripts and corruption at the higher ranks. Russian generals were and still do sell weapons to the same Chechens that they're fighting to make money on the side.


The real threat to Russia is from China. Give it another 50 years and China will take a sizeable portion of Russia one way or another. Also, I'm sorry if for some reason i don't think China wil be afraid of the nuclear threat from Russia when they'll have close to 2 billion people. 

[Cobra]

yeah, do some research smart guy. check out some technological concepts like plasma stealth. Russia can easily take mainland Europe. Russia has more gas and money than the US has plus it's not scattered all over the place.

Ok. Russia v. EU militarily. Yep . Russia will win.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Triadtropz]

Did anyone here honestly think that the US, even for one second, thought about entering the war on Georgia's behalf? .


 

If saddam was the intruder, they would be there in a second..the US is afraid of real wars...they stick to policing civil wars.

[Cobra]

If saddam was the intruder, they would be there in a second..the US is afraid of real wars...they stick to policing civil wars.

What real war?

Russia is not China.
The Russians themselves know they can't win in a conventional war with the US. This isn't about a war between the US and Russia.

This is a war between US imperial ambitions and Russian imperial ambitions.

[The_lizard]

Ok. Russia v. EU militarily. Yep . Russia will win.

Thanks for the laugh.

haha, yeah, EU would just let them roll in and kiss their ass like they did hitler.

[70983]

What real war?

Russia is not China.
The Russians themselves know they can't win in a conventional war with the US. This isn't about a war between the US and Russia.

This is a war between US imperial ambitions and Russian imperial ambitions.

The Russian Navy this spring sent a major battle fleet into the Mediterranean headed by the modern aircraft carrier the Admiral Kuznetsov and the flagship of its Black Sea Fleet, the Guided Missile Heavy Cruiser Moskva. This powerful fleet has at least 11 surface ships and unknown numbers of subs and can use the Russian naval facility at Syria’s Tartous port for resupply. The Admiral Kuznetsov carries approximately 47 warplanes and 10 helicopters. The warplanes are mostly the powerful Su-33, a naval version (with mid-air refueling capability) of the Su-27 family. While the Su-33 is a very powerful warplane it lacks the power of the stealth USAF F-22. However, the Russians insist that they have developed a plasma based system that allows them to stealth any aircraft and a recent incident where Russian fighters were able to appear unannounced over a US Navy carrier battle group tends to confirm their claims. The Su-33 can be armed with the 3M82 Moskit sea-skimming missile (NATO code name SS-N-22 Sunburn) and the even more powerful P-800 Oniks (also named Yakhonts; NATO code name SS-N-26 Onyx). Both missiles are designed to kill US Navy supercarriers by getting past the cruiser/destroyer screen and the USN point-defense Phalanx system by using high supersonic speeds and violent end maneuvers. Russian subs currently use the underwater rocket VA-111 Shkval (Squall), which is fired from standard 533mm torpedo tubes and reaches a speed of 360kph (230mph) underwater. There is no effective countermeasures to this system and no western counterpart.

That is part of an article from infowars.com

[Triadtropz]

What real war?

Russia is not China.
The Russians themselves know they can't win in a conventional war with the US. This isn't about a war between the US and Russia.

This is a war between US imperial ambitions and Russian imperial ambitions.

I agree its a war of imperial ambitions and the russians are winning the propoganda war...how do you know the russians know they would lose a conventional war with the US..why does everyone think the US is so tough?..they just spent the last 5 years trying to tame an unarmed country...I dont think the US is that tough at all..and honestly I think the Red armies getting ready to teach them a lesson, after the olympics..

[Cobra]

That is part of an article from infowars.com

Neither nation wants a war with the other. Don't you get it?
In a conventional war there would be heavy casualties on both sides but eventually the US would win. Even the Russians know this.

This is a pissing contest between the US and Russia and like always civilians suffer.

[Chocolaty]

at least 2000 dead

[Cobra]

I agree its a war of imperial ambitions and the russians are winning the propoganda war...how do you know the russians know they would lose a conventional war with the US..why does everyone think the US is so tough?..they just spent the last 5 years trying to tame an unarmed country...I dont think the US is that tough at all..and honestly I think the Red armies getting ready to teach them a lesson, after the olympics..

I don't think many people realize how much 500 billion+  year buys.
People don't fully comprehend how much equipment the military industrial complex turns out every year. It's staggering.

How many nations can fight an imperial war on the other side of the world for 5+ years? Lets not even talk about winning or losing that war. Just the fact that the US can fight a war on the other side of the world for an extended period of time.

It's not even comparable really.


Russia should be worried much more about China ( and they are) than about the US. The US is a short term threat. China is in it for the long haul.

[mario_bros]

Ok. Russia v. EU militarily. Yep . Russia will win.

Thanks for the laugh.

conventional war ----- no way.But  no one is thinking about this now   Russians will not play with they tanks if something happend , they go directly to nuclear weapons.There is a prophet telling that russians will attack europe and usa  

google translation ------ http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/nowhere/index.htm

Norway's future - in our past?

The Russian mathematics teacher Taisa Ivanowna N. A. told the journalists Piestow: [7]

"I want to tell a story that my now deceased father experienced when he was in 1946, competent organs (bodies) 'worked. You have to understand to what, bodies' it is ....

My father told me this story in 1980 than in summer in the Moscow Olympic Games took place. For this reason one could almost all shops in the capital, but also in the province, many attractive goods from the West to buy. Normally, we never had such goods.

Among other things there were to buy Western cigarettes such as Marlboro, Kent, Salem and Newport menthol. These brands cost a whole ruble, and that was for us a very high price.

One day, back in summer - I was just cooking - as my father came home and was very excited, incredibly nervous.

Silently he put a bottle of vodka on the table and presented a box of cigarettes to brand Newport.

I was amazed, because he never smoked or drank, ie he always has had very little drunk. Now he is a glass, filled it with vodka and drank everything, as if it were water.

I was seriously frightened and understood that something had happened, what it had to have deeply shaken.

On my questions concerned my father told me, finally, this incredible story and demanded that he swear I would have never weiterzuerzählen someone, as long as he lived.

So - in 1946 my father served as a lieutenant in the Office of Internal Affairs in the city Sobinka in Wladimirskoj Oblasti [8].

He was still young and not yet married.

One day he brought a police patrol a strange-looking man in zerfetzter clothes and with injuries to the head. He was in a state of shock and could not speak, but only almost unconsciously looked around at his surroundings.

Everything the man in his trouser pockets had landed on the desk of my father, a written record anfertigte.

The man had with him the following items:

A foreign pen,

A lighter in a metal box,

A cigarette box of the mark "Newport" (!)

A passport on the territory of the USSR was not valid and in two languages (Russian and English) was issued. The name of the owner was Pokrowskij.

My father took the document, which was covered with celluloid ', in his hand (at that time nobody knew what lamination means authors note) and read what was there:

'Zone of the direct responsibility of the NATO command Murmansk. Norwegian occupation zone. Identity card.

Name: Pokrowskij. Date of birth: 1 3rd 1972. Birthplace: Murmansk, Russia. The card was sent to a certain days of the year 2008 from the commander of the city of Murmansk.

The identity card was valid up to one day in 2009.

More detailed data my father had not been more precise in memory.

Not only has the text electrifies my father was. As if all this were not enough shocking would have been on the pass was a Paßbild, which was in color! At that time we had no color images in Russia.

My father had no doubt that before him sat a foreign agent, but these times are the pass!

Finally - behind the windows of his office was still the year 1946!

My father immediately called the Department of Wladimirowskije MGB. (MGB - Ministry of State Security, was later KGB).

From the MGB was quickly sent a car, together with a special unit arrived. The man was transported directly to Moscow. This was the command. My father has this man never again.

But after three or four days came from Moscow important functionaries, and my father and all the officials involved had to make precise statements and a sign Schweigeverpflichtung.

But this visit was the strange story for my father has not yet ended. In 1949 he told the radio from the news that a new military pact with names NATO was founded. Just initials he had to read the strange card, which he in 1946 that Pokrowskij had decreased. At that time there were no NATO, and my father had no idea what this acronym meant.

  


Figure 3: In Russia, they were unknown until 1980: the cigarette brand "Newport"

  

In 1980 came the second event, which my father so out of balance brought. It was the cigarette brand "Newport" buy, because in the Soviet shops for a few days Stock. The cigarette box with the inscription "Newport"! The same packaging as in the year 1946. My father had just noticed how these package that which was - at that time.

For this reason he had to swallow a powerful drink vodka to calm ...

Today my father lives no more. So I can frankly tell about these events.

But since a few years constantly push myself some questions:

What was the fate of this Pokrowskij? Is it in the archives of the KGB any documents about this case? If so, when they will no longer be kept secret?

What are these "occupation zones"? What are (or are) "zones of responsibility of NATO in this region? What has it all to do with Russia? "

No one knows the answers to these questions, Taisa Ivanowna.

There are several ways to interpret this story. We must of course bear in mind that they may be invented. Then it is at least very well told. In the age of the Horizon Mission Methodology, however, also can not completely exclude the possibility that something could actually happen (or possibly already occurred or are occurring ... is ...). More facts and scientific backgrounds, we describe in the book "Terra Incognita."

It is not necessarily the case that our history is that in 2008 actually nordrussische the region around the naval port of Murmansk under the control of the NATO country, Norway. One can only hope that Norway will not have long created in our past.

Some tensions between Russia and Norway, there is today. Sun reported that Moscow "Pravda" on 21 April 2003: "Russia is concerned about the fact that Norway has a radar station, Globe 2, which is capable of, a territory of 35,000 square kilometers to control. It said Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Vladimir Chizhov during a hearing on Russia's national interests in northern Europe before the Federation Council, upper house of the Russian Parliament.

The radar station serves about NATO or the United States in control of the Russian territory, but Norway insist on its position that the purpose of the station only the surveillance of space, Chizhov said.

He explained to the development of relations of Russia with the countries of northern Europe, except in accordance with the requirements of good neighbourly relations. At the same time, he said, Finland will try its influence in northern Europe and extend the existing policy of neutrality to leave, which is problematic. Sweden could soon be the same position. He added that Russia was also concerned about the refusal by Norway to end its participation in naval maneuvers limit. "

[Triadtropz]

and they broke the country in the process..I believe the red armys just waiting the US out til they are completely broke...then they will take them out.

[Aerioch]

If saddam was the intruder, they would be there in a second..the US is afraid of real wars...they stick to policing civil wars.

Quite right, Triadtropz!  I will only add one slight thing to this.

The U.S. is afraid of real wars...they stick to policing civil wars, that the C.I.A. intentionally creates.
[/color]

South Korea vs. North Korea
South Vietnam vs. North Vietnam
Taiwan vs. China
Kurds, vs. Iraq

and now
Georgia vs. Russia

There was no call for peace, or the respect of Sovereign rights until the "Georgian Offensive" was turned into a public, pants-down, ass spanking with Russia wielding the paddle.

[The_lizard]

Neither nation wants a war with the other. Don't you get it?
In a conventional war there would be heavy casualties on both sides but eventually the US would win. Even the Russians know this.

This is a pissing contest between the US and Russia and like always civilians suffer.

depends where it is, in georgia the US would lose badly. Because 1. georgia was part of russia for 200 years and it's on their border. 2. the US isn't at all prepared for a war with russia, you can barely hold bagdad and you think you can win a war with russia on their own turf?
Also, you have to think about how practical the russian military is and inventive. you can pump all the money you want into fancy gagets but some mud or water will still wreck it.
Plus, Russia already told the states they will nuke them if they keep surrounding. your just a slave of your media, it's not your fault.

[EvadingGrid]

As with most actions post '45 the target is Public Opinion.

When Gerorgia attacked on the morning of the 7th August, with large scale artillery and katushka rocket launchers, they did so knowning that the likes of CNN would report "poor little country attacked by big bully"..

This is nothing more than the continuation of a policy to "box in" and "contain" Russia, by gaining artificial support.

The Long Term Anglo Stratergy

The basic stratergy is to lock Russia out of the Imperial Chessboard ( see Zibigniew )
This has always centred on denial of a Warm Sea Port. ( see Crimea )

[Optimus]

We know that there are US military advisers in Georgia, and even though this is from DEBKA, I believe it is probably accurate that there are also military advisers from Israel. Sorry if this was already posted.


Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

August 8, 2008

 Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax.

Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin threatened a “military response.”

Former Soviet Georgia called up its military reserves after Russian warplanes bombed its new positions in the renegade province.

In Moscow’s first response to the fall of Tskhinvali, president Dimitry Medvedev ordered the Russian army to prepare for a national emergency after calling the UN Security Council into emergency session early Friday.

Reinforcements were rushed to the Russian “peacekeeping force” present in the region to support the separatists.

Georgian tanks entered the capital after heavy overnight heavy aerial strikes, in which dozens of people were killed.

Lado Gurgenidze, Georgia's prime minister, said on Friday that Georgia will continue its military operation in South Ossetia until a "durable peace" is reached. "As soon as a durable peace takes hold we need to move forward with dialogue and peaceful negotiations."

DEBKAfile’s geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region.

The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

Saakashvili need only back away from this plan for Moscow to ditch the two provinces’ revolt against Tbilisi. As long as he sticks to his guns, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will wage separatist wars.

DEBKAfile discloses Israel’s interest in the conflict from its exclusive military sources:

Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean.

Aware of Moscow’s sensitivity on the oil question, Israel offered Russia a stake in the project but was rejected.

Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel.

These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday.

In recent weeks, Moscow has repeatedly demanded that Jerusalem halt its military assistance to Georgia, finally threatening a crisis in bilateral relations. Israel responded by saying that the only assistance rendered Tbilisi was “defensive.”

This has not gone down well in the Kremlin. Therefore, as the military crisis intensifies in South Ossetia, Moscow may be expected to punish Israel for its intervention.

[Biggs]

yep reports of 2000 dead already

btw - does anybody seriously think this is anything other than the work of Brzezinski and co doing exactly what Webster Harplrey said they would do, i.e. shifting US foreign policy focus from Iraq etc to taking on Russia and China in wars of proxy for the geopolitical heart of the globe??

Tarpley said that brzezinski already has taken over from the neocons as the primary driver of US foreign policy, and the very fact that Georgia attacked South Ossetia (Georgia being a client state of the US) is surely proof of this.