GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE

[bigron]

Wednesday, August 13, 2008
02:58 Mecca time, 23:58 GMT    
News Americas  
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2008/08/2008812204333715324.html

 
US blamed over S Ossetia crisis  
 
 

The US has trained and equipped Georgian military forces .

The US has had stern words for Russia over its military intervention in Georgia to back South Ossietian separatists, but many analysts say that the Bush administration must share the blame for the crisis.

Washington has formed a close bond with the government of Mikheil Saakashvili since he came to power in the 2003 'Rose Revolution,' offering military and economic aid and encouraging Georgia to join Nato.

Jon Sawyer, the director for the Pulitzer Centre for Crisis Reporting, said US politicians had encouraged their Georgian counterparts to think they had the backing of the US when Tbilisi decided to launch its attack on South Ossetia last week.

"The US has for several years now mishandled the situation in Georgia," he told Al Jazeera.

"The way that Mikheil Saakashvili has approached this [has been by] thinking that he could be an extension of the west, a partner of the United States."

"In many ways we have given him cause for thinking that, with the many visits to the United States, the talk of Georgia as a beacon for democracy."

Charles Kupchan of the Council on Foreign Relations, agrees that US encouragement may have made Saakashvili "miscalculate" and send Georgian troops into South Ossetia.

"I think in many respects Saakashvili got too close to the United States and the United States got too close to Saakashvili," Kupchan told the Reuters news agency.

"It made him overreach, it made him feel at the end of the day that the West would come to his assistance if he got into trouble."

US backing

The statistics seem to back the view that Tbilisi felt itself under the protective wing of the Bush administration.

 
US and Georgian leaders have forged a close relationship .

As well as diplomatic encouragement, Saakashvili's government was offered both economic and military aid by Washington.

US special forces trained Georgian troops in 2002 to combat Chechen fighters in the Pankisi Gorge, which borders Chechnya, as part of the US "war on terror".

And Georgian forces continued to recieve training from the US as they prepared to send troops to Iraq, following the US-led invasion in 2003.

Washington gave $151 million to the Georgian government in security aid between 2004 and 2006.

Tbilisi has also benefited from the Millenium Challenge Corporation, a Bush administration programme intended to reward countries for "effective governance".

The corporation has signed agreements totaling $295 million, making Georgia the fourth-biggest recipient of funds.

Energy needs

The US may have welcomed Georgia as its key ally in the old Soviet Union's sphere of influence.

Mikhail Gorbachev, former Soviet leader said :
"By declaring the Caucasus, a region that is thousands of miles from the American continent, a sphere of its 'national interest,' the United States made a serious blunder."


 
But analysts point to the presence of key natural resources as a reason for the scale of US largesse.

The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline runs through Georgia, allowing the US access to oil and gas supplies not pumped through Russia to the north or Iran to the south.

"Underlying all this is a larger, more significant contest: a geopolitical struggle between Russia and the West over the export of Caspian Sea oil and natural gas," Michael Klare, the author of Resource Wars told the New American Media website.

"The United States seeks to use Georgia as an 'energy corridor' to transport Caspian energy to the West without going through Iran or Russia; to this end, it helped build the BTC pipeline across Georgia and helped beef up the Georgian military to protect it.

Kosovo connection

Other's believe that while Georgia have miscalculated the level of support it had from Washington, the US has also erred in thinking it could influence events so close to Russian borders.

Mikhail Gorbachev, the former leader of the old Soviet Union, said the US had made a "serious blunder" by allying itself so closely with Georgia.

"By declaring the Caucasus, a region that is thousands of miles from the American continent, a sphere of its 'national interest,' the United States made a serious blunder," Gorbachev said in an opinion piece to be published in the Washington Post US newspaper on Tuesday.

Other analysts say that US diplomats may have underestimated the level of anger the US recognition of Kosovo created in Moscow, leaving it fearful that Georgia would assert itself further in South Ossetia.

"The Kremlin made abundantly clear that it would view Kosovo's independence without Serbian consent and a UN Security Council mandate as a precedent for the two Georgian de facto independent enclaves," Dimitri Simes, the president of the Nixon Centre, wrote in a post on the Washington Note blog.

"Furthermore, while president Saakashvili was making obvious his ambition to reconquer Abkhazia and South Ossetia, Moscow was both publicly and privately warning that Georgia's use of force to re-establish control of the two regions would meet a tough Russian reaction, including, if needed, air strikes against Georgia proper."
 
 

[Godfather77]

U.S. to take control of Georgian ports: Saakashvili
Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:07pm EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSLD49893320080813

President George W. Bush's pledge to send aid to Georgia means that the U.S. military will take control of the ex-Soviet state's ports and airports, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said on Wednesday.

"You have heard the statement by the U.S. president that the United States is starting a military-humanitarian operation in Georgia," Saakashvili said in a television address.

"It means that Georgian ports and airports will be taken under the control of the U.S. defense ministry in order to conduct humanitarian and other missions. This is a very important statement for easing tension."

[mario_bros]

U.S. to take control of Georgian ports: Saakashvili how they gonna do it ? There is a russian VDV and Navy in Poti .

[GoodBush]

Bush, Rice demand Russia quit Georgia

By MATTHEW LEE – 18 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says Russia 'must end' military operations in Georgia now.

She also says Russia needs to respect the U.S. aid effort to help the people of Georgia.

Rice made her comments Wednesday during a news conference at the State Department just hours before leaving on a diplomatic mission to France and then Georgia to help resolve the crisis.

Earlier at the White House, President Bush announced he was sending Rice to the region even as Russian tanks neared the capital of Georgia, suggesting Moscow isn't yet ready to stand down after six days of war over breakaway provinces in Georgia.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush demanded Wednesday that Russia end all military activities in neighboring Georgia and dispatched U.S. aid to devastated Georgians.

"The United States stands with the democratically elected government of Georgia and insists that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia be respected," Bush said during brief but stern remarks in the White House Rose Garden. Moscow's apparent violation of a cease-fire in neighboring Georgia puts its global aspirations at risk, he said.

"To begin to repair the damage to its relations with the United States, Europe and other nations and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must keep its word and act to end this crisis," Bush said.

The president announced that "to demonstrate our solidarity with the Georgian people" he was sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to Paris to assist the West's diplomatic efforts on the crisis, and then on to the Georgian capital of Tbilisi.

He also announced a massive U.S. humanitarian effort that would involve American aircraft as well as naval forces. A U.S. C-17 military cargo plane loaded with supplies landed in Georgia on Wednesday, and Bush said that Russia must ensure that "all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, roads and airports," remain open to let deliveries and civilians through.

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman said later that a second supply-laden C-17 would arrive Thursday and that an assessment team was to arrive soon in Georgia to determine other needs. The Pentagon also is preparing to send the hospital ship, the USNS Comfort, if needed, though it would take weeks to get to the region.

The administration also will review what military help is needed for Georgia's now-shattered armed forces, Whitman said.

The president spoke amid a fast-moving chain of events, with Rice moving a planned morning news conference to the afternoon and the White House scrubbing altogether its regular morning briefing with reporters.

Despite extensive intelligence resources and deep ties to the Georgian military, which has been trained by the U.S., the administration has struggled to determine what's happening on the ground, for instance whether Russia is going farther into Georgia or threatening Tbilisi.

"There are confused reports and varying reports that are coming in," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said. "We're doing our best to keep up with them and to best understand the situation. ... It's not the easiest thing in the world given the geography and the cutoff of information."

Still, Bush said developments on the ground appear to contradict Russia's promise of a halt to military operations. Perino called reports of the cease-fire violation "credible."

Neither the president nor any Cabinet member has answered questions on the record about the 6-day-old crisis except for remarks that Bush made in a television interview Sunday on the sidelines of the Olympic Games in Beijing.

Bush spent the morning meeting with his national security team in the White House Situation Room, the nerve center for monitoring international developments. He talked by telephone with Georgia's embattled president, Mikhail Saakashvili, and with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who traveled to both Tbilisi and Moscow and is leading a European Union initiative to bring about peace there.

Rice was leaving for Paris Wednesday evening. And Bush delayed the start of his vacation by "a day or two" to monitor developments, said presidential spokeswoman Dana Perino. He had been scheduled to leave Thursday for a two-week stay at his Texas ranch.

The Russian operation began after Georgia last week tried to secure control over South Ossetia, a breakaway region loyal to Moscow. Russia's fierce military response expanded to Abkhazia, another separatist province on Georgia's coast, and ended up on purely Georgian soil.

On Wednesday, Russian tanks rumbled into the Georgian city of Gori — after Saakashvili said he accepted a cease-fire plan brokered by France that called for both sides to retreat to their original positions, and after Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Russia was halting military action.

Georgian officials said Gori was looted and bombed by the Russians. An AP reporter later saw dozens of tanks and military vehicles leaving the city, roaring south and deeper into Georgia. Later in the day, Georgian officials said the Russians pulled out of the western town of Zugdidi, near Abkhazia.

Bush cited specific concerns: that Russian units have taken up positions on the east side of Gori, which could allow Russia to block an east-to-west highway, divide the country and threaten the capital of Tblisi; that Russian forces have entered and taken positions in the port city of Poti; and that Russia is blowing up Georgian vessels.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov denied that Russian troops were anywhere near Poti.

The administration and its allies are debating ways to punish Russia, including expelling Moscow from an exclusive club of wealthy nations — the G-7 — and canceling an upcoming joint NATO-Russia military exercise. Whitman said the U.S. will be reviewing other military-to-military cooperative programs with Russia as well.

But it has become increasingly clear that the West may have little leverage to influence Moscow's decisions. Bush held out no specific punishment.

"Russia has sought to integrate into the diplomatic, political, economic, and security structures of the 21st century. The United States has supported those efforts," he said. "Now Russia is putting its aspirations at risk by taking actions in Georgia that are inconsistent with the principles of those institutions."

Lavrov lashed back from Moscow, calling Georgia's leadership "a special project of the United States. And we understand that the United States is worried about its project."

He was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying that at some point, the United States will have to choose "either support for a virtual project, or real partnership on issues that really demand collective action," referring to U.S. cooperation with Russia in the U.N. Security Council on Iran and other global hot spots.

Saakashvili, meanwhile, called the Western response inadequate. "I feel that they are partly to blame," he said. "Not only those who commit atrocities are responsible ... but so are those who fail to react."

Bush, during a 2005 visit to Tbilisi, personally assured the people of Georgia that the United States would be its unflinching ally. "The path of freedom you have chosen is not easy, but you will not travel it alone," he said then.

The tiny, poverty stricken nation of Georgia has staked its future on leaning West and joining NATO is one of its key goals. Bush has supported this move, but the security alliance's leaders put the requests from Georgia, as well as another ex-Soviet republic, Ukraine, on hold in April for fear of upsetting relations with Moscow.

In Tbilisi, the U.S. embassy is passing out $1.2 million in disaster packages containing medical supplies, tents, blankets, bedding, clothing and other items, said State Department spokesman Robert Wood said. The U.S. is also sending 104,000 doses of antibiotics in response to a Georgian request.

The relief agency USAID is adding an initial $250,000 for emergency relief supplies.

Associated Press reporters Jennifer Loven, Anne Gearan, Pauline Jelinek and Lolita Baldor contributed to this story.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQYe039zkquHxitiI6u4M_TRr_BAD92HJAQG0

[ramallamamama]

Georgian gunship at Poti.



http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=139586&page=82

[Triadtropz]

I just watched rice on tv making her demands...this is a game of brinksmanship..and I dont think putins listening..Russian armored vehicles have just been spotted outside the capitol.

[mario_bros]

Press Report Details Battle in the Black Sea


One of the members of the crew of a ship in the Black Sea Fleet, upon his return to Sevastopol is interviewed by a reporter regarding the battle with Georgian cutters off of Abkhazia on 10 August. This is currently leading the kpunews in the Ukraine. The story suggests he is being interviewed by a kpunews reporter.


"We took up station guarding the opposed landing on the Abkhaz shore when all of a sudden four high speed targets were detected. We sent out an IFF signal and the targets didn't react. Receiving a command from the flagship, we got into formation and right at that moment the unidentified targets opened fire on the ship formation and flagship. The cruiser was damaged and a small fire broke out aboard. Then, fearing for seaworthyness, the flagship withdrew from the firing area." - the sailor said.

"Right then the small missile boats clearly fired," the participant continued. "Taking up position, our MRK launched a "Malakhit" (SS-N-9) anti-surface missile, which literally cut the lead ship, the "Tbilisi" to ribbons. After that, fire was shifted to the rest of the Georgian ships. Another ship was damaged, we couldn't finish it off, allowing it to leave the scene under its own power.
So the Moskva was apparently damaged in the attack and disengaged. She is certainly capable of destroying big ships, but the battle appears to highlight a weakness against small ships. The battle also tends to add credibility to what many have said, it is best to fight small ships at sea with small ships at sea.

The sailor goes on to say it took a minute and a half for the Georgian ship to sink in 300 meters of water. The article finishes with a note about the "Tbilisi" being previously sold to Georgia as the former Ukraine ship "Konotop".

[Protean]

Protean wrotes.

yeah but Web was saying McCain or Hillary would be better...NOT!

It is just a strategy: McCain: lame duck pres, one term, hostile dem congress/senate--it's a stall for the people/infowarriors to mobilize further and try to take their country back--Tarpley is not a McCain fan--bottomline: KEEP ZBIG'S OBAMA-PUPPET OUT OF OFFICE.

This is a movement with this strategy:
PUMA (Unity My Ass)
http://pumaparty.com/

[GoodBush]

Key locations in the conflict

Good article here too.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/2008813153517926662.html

[Cobra]

Press Report Details Battle in the Black Sea


One of the members of the crew of a ship in the Black Sea Fleet, upon his return to Sevastopol is interviewed by a reporter regarding the battle with Georgian cutters off of Abkhazia on 10 August. This is currently leading the kpunews in the Ukraine. The story suggests he is being interviewed by a kpunews reporter.


"We took up station guarding the opposed landing on the Abkhaz shore when all of a sudden four high speed targets were detected. We sent out an IFF signal and the targets didn't react. Receiving a command from the flagship, we got into formation and right at that moment the unidentified targets opened fire on the ship formation and flagship. The cruiser was damaged and a small fire broke out aboard. Then, fearing for seaworthyness, the flagship withdrew from the firing area." - the sailor said.

"Right then the small missile boats clearly fired," the participant continued. "Taking up position, our MRK launched a "Malakhit" (SS-N-9) anti-surface missile, which literally cut the lead ship, the "Tbilisi" to ribbons. After that, fire was shifted to the rest of the Georgian ships. Another ship was damaged, we couldn't finish it off, allowing it to leave the scene under its own power.
So the Moskva was apparently damaged in the attack and disengaged. She is certainly capable of destroying big ships, but the battle appears to highlight a weakness against small ships. The battle also tends to add credibility to what many have said, it is best to fight small ships at sea with small ships at sea.

The sailor goes on to say it took a minute and a half for the Georgian ship to sink in 300 meters of water. The article finishes with a note about the "Tbilisi" being previously sold to Georgia as the former Ukraine ship "Konotop".

Good report.

These huge destroyers and cruisers are relics of the cold war. Built to fight at (beyond visual range) long range with other big sophisticated destroyers. They are weak against smaller ships for the simple fact that small ships are vastly more maneuvarable and do not have long and complicated engagement procedures.

[Wanted]

Vladimir Putin's mastery checkmates the West
Russia has been biding its time, but its victory in Georgia has been brutal - and brilliant

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4525885.ece

The cartoon images have shown Russia as an angry bear, stretching out a claw to maul Georgia. Russia is certainly angry, and, like a beast provoked, has bared its teeth. But it is the wrong stereotype. What the world has seen last week is a brilliant and brutal display of Russia's national game, chess. And Moscow has just declared checkmate.

Chess is a slow game. One has to be ready to ignore provocations, lose a few pawns and turn the hubris of others into their own entrapment. For years there has been rising resentment within Russia. Some of this is inevitable: the loss of empire, a burning sense of grievance and the fear that in the 1990s, amid domestic chaos and economic collapse, Russia's views no longer mattered.

A generalised resentment, similar to the sour undercurrents of Weimar Germany, began to focus on specific issues: the nonchalance of the Clinton Administration about Russian sensitivities, especially over the Balkans and in opening Nato's door to former Warsaw Pact members; the neo-conservative agenda of the early Bush years that saw no role for Russia in its global agenda; and Washington's ingratitude after 9/11 for vital Kremlin support over terrorism, Afghanistan and intelligence on extremism.

More infuriating was Western encouragement of “freedom” in the former Soviet satellite states that gave carte blanche to forces long hostile to Russia. In the Baltic states, Soviet occupation could be portrayed as worse than the Nazis. EU commissioners from new member states could target Russian policies. Populists in Eastern Europe could ride to power on anti-Russian rhetoric emboldened by Western applause for their fluency in English.

Nowhere was such taunting more wounding than in Ukraine and Georgia, two countries long part of the Russian Empire, whose history, religion and culture were so intertwined with Russia's. Moscow tried, disastrously, to check Western, and particularly American, influence in Ukraine. The clumsy meddling led to the Orange Revolution.

Georgia was a different matter. Relations were always mercurial, but Eduard Shevardnadze, the wily former Soviet Foreign Minister, knew how to keep atavistic animosities in check. Not so his brash successor, Mikheil Saakashvili. From then on, hubris was Tbilisi's undoing.

It was not simply the dismissive rhetoric, the open door to US advisers or the economic illiteracy in forgetting dependence on Russian energy and remittance from across the border; it was the determined attempt to make Georgia a US regional ally and outpost of US influence.

Big powers do not like other big powers poaching. This may not be moral or fair but it is reality, and one that underpins the Security Council veto. The Monroe Doctrine - “hands off the Americas” - has been policy in Washington for 200 years. The US is ready to risk war to keep out not only other powers but hostile ideologies - in Cuba and Nicaragua.

Vladimir Putin lost several pawns on the chessboard - Kosovo, Iraq, Nato membership for the Baltic states, US renunciation of the ABM treaty, US missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic. But he waited.

The trap was set in Georgia. When President Saakashvili blundered into South Ossetia, sending in an army to shell, kill and maim on a vicious scale (against US advice and his promised word), Russia was waiting.

It was not only Mr Saakashvili who thought that he had the distraction of the Olympics to cover him; the Kremlin also knew that Mr Bush was watching basketball, and, in the longer term, that the US army was fully engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan. From the day that the Russian tank brigade raced through the tunnel into South Ossetia, Russia has not made one wrong move. Mr Bush's remarks yesterday notwithstanding, In five days it turned an overreaching blunder by a Western-backed opponent into a devastating exposure of Western impotence, dithering and double standards on respecting national sovereignty (viz Iraq).

The attack was short, sharp and deadly - enough to send the Georgians fleeing in humiliating panic, their rout captured by global television. The destruction was enough to hurt, but not so much that the world would be roused in fury. The timing of the ceasefire was precise: just hours before President Sarkozy could voice Western anger. Moscow made clear that it retained the initiative. And despite sporadic breaches - on both sides - Russia has blunted Georgian charges that this is a war of annihilation.

Moscow can also counter Georgian PR, the last weapon left to Tbilisi. Human rights? Look at what Georgia has done in South Ossetia (and also in Abkhazia). National sovereignty? Look at the detachment of Kosovo from Serbia. False pretexts? Look at Ronald Reagan's invasion of Grenada to “rescue” US medical students. Western outrage? Look at the confused cacophony.

There are lessons everywhere. To the former Soviet republics - remember your geography. To Nato - do you still want to incorporate Caucasian vendettas into your alliance? To Tbilisi - do you want to keep a President who brought this on you? To Washington - does Russia's voice still count for nothing? Like it or not, it counts for a lot.

[trailhound]

It is just a strategy: McCain: lame duck pres, one term, hostile dem congress/senate--it's a stall for the people/infowarriors to mobilize further and try to take their country back--Tarpley is not a McCain fan--bottomline: KEEP ZBIG'S OBAMA-PUPPET OUT OF OFFICE.

 and he says Ron Paul is a fascist i agree Obama is scary as hell and even scarier than McCain, but not enough for me to fall for the lesser evil line, no not again not me anyway. Im voting Baldwin winner be damned

[revolt426]

K two things can occur now from what i've been reading....

the most likely is the U.S. is going to have to back down, take a HUGE PR hit and let Russia get the good PR.

However, if the Neocons believe they are between a rock and a hard place they may do something VERY stupid such as creating a situation where an "accident" can happen leading to complete cold war. It looks like Bush is all over this scenerio as he is saying he will send U.S. Military "humanitarian aid" to Georgia. This can create a HUGE problem and is extremely dangerous so maybe the Neocons are actually going for it... god help us

[dogmadestroyer]

The cartoon images have shown Russia as an angry bear, stretching out a claw to maul Georgia. Russia is certainly angry, and, like a beast provoked, has bared its teeth. But it is the wrong stereotype.

More like this.

[revolt426]

Thats a great political cartoon,  it's just missing the Israeli flag lol, goodpost

[Wanted]

More like this.

Wow....really nice pics, altho these make me feel sad for the little bear. 
The poor thing looks so scared.

[Cobra]

Vladimir Putin's mastery checkmates the West
Russia has been biding its time, but its victory in Georgia has been brutal - and brilliant

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4525885.ece

The cartoon images have shown Russia as an angry bear, stretching out a claw to maul Georgia. Russia is certainly angry, and, like a beast provoked, has bared its teeth. But it is the wrong stereotype. What the world has seen last week is a brilliant and brutal display of Russia's national game, chess. And Moscow has just declared checkmate.

Chess is a slow game. One has to be ready to ignore provocations, lose a few pawns and turn the hubris of others into their own entrapment. For years there has been rising resentment within Russia. Some of this is inevitable: the loss of empire, a burning sense of grievance and the fear that in the 1990s, amid domestic chaos and economic collapse, Russia's views no longer mattered.

A generalised resentment, similar to the sour undercurrents of Weimar Germany, began to focus on specific issues: the nonchalance of the Clinton Administration about Russian sensitivities, especially over the Balkans and in opening Nato's door to former Warsaw Pact members; the neo-conservative agenda of the early Bush years that saw no role for Russia in its global agenda; and Washington's ingratitude after 9/11 for vital Kremlin support over terrorism, Afghanistan and intelligence on extremism.

More infuriating was Western encouragement of “freedom” in the former Soviet satellite states that gave carte blanche to forces long hostile to Russia. In the Baltic states, Soviet occupation could be portrayed as worse than the Nazis. EU commissioners from new member states could target Russian policies. Populists in Eastern Europe could ride to power on anti-Russian rhetoric emboldened by Western applause for their fluency in English.

Nowhere was such taunting more wounding than in Ukraine and Georgia, two countries long part of the Russian Empire, whose history, religion and culture were so intertwined with Russia's. Moscow tried, disastrously, to check Western, and particularly American, influence in Ukraine. The clumsy meddling led to the Orange Revolution.

Georgia was a different matter. Relations were always mercurial, but Eduard Shevardnadze, the wily former Soviet Foreign Minister, knew how to keep atavistic animosities in check. Not so his brash successor, Mikheil Saakashvili. From then on, hubris was Tbilisi's undoing.

It was not simply the dismissive rhetoric, the open door to US advisers or the economic illiteracy in forgetting dependence on Russian energy and remittance from across the border; it was the determined attempt to make Georgia a US regional ally and outpost of US influence.

Big powers do not like other big powers poaching. This may not be moral or fair but it is reality, and one that underpins the Security Council veto. The Monroe Doctrine - “hands off the Americas” - has been policy in Washington for 200 years. The US is ready to risk war to keep out not only other powers but hostile ideologies - in Cuba and Nicaragua.

Vladimir Putin lost several pawns on the chessboard - Kosovo, Iraq, Nato membership for the Baltic states, US renunciation of the ABM treaty, US missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic. But he waited.

The trap was set in Georgia. When President Saakashvili blundered into South Ossetia, sending in an army to shell, kill and maim on a vicious scale (against US advice and his promised word), Russia was waiting.

It was not only Mr Saakashvili who thought that he had the distraction of the Olympics to cover him; the Kremlin also knew that Mr Bush was watching basketball, and, in the longer term, that the US army was fully engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan. From the day that the Russian tank brigade raced through the tunnel into South Ossetia, Russia has not made one wrong move. Mr Bush's remarks yesterday notwithstanding, In five days it turned an overreaching blunder by a Western-backed opponent into a devastating exposure of Western impotence, dithering and double standards on respecting national sovereignty (viz Iraq).

The attack was short, sharp and deadly - enough to send the Georgians fleeing in humiliating panic, their rout captured by global television. The destruction was enough to hurt, but not so much that the world would be roused in fury. The timing of the ceasefire was precise: just hours before President Sarkozy could voice Western anger. Moscow made clear that it retained the initiative. And despite sporadic breaches - on both sides - Russia has blunted Georgian charges that this is a war of annihilation.

Moscow can also counter Georgian PR, the last weapon left to Tbilisi. Human rights? Look at what Georgia has done in South Ossetia (and also in Abkhazia). National sovereignty? Look at the detachment of Kosovo from Serbia. False pretexts? Look at Ronald Reagan's invasion of Grenada to “rescue” US medical students. Western outrage? Look at the confused cacophony.

There are lessons everywhere. To the former Soviet republics - remember your geography. To Nato - do you still want to incorporate Caucasian vendettas into your alliance? To Tbilisi - do you want to keep a President who brought this on you? To Washington - does Russia's voice still count for nothing? Like it or not, it counts for a lot.

Too early to tell.

This conflict will give the upper hand to the ZBig wing of the NWO. They'll be given a blank check to do whatever in the coming years.

ZBig absolutely hates Russia. It's a personal thing for him as well as many Poles.

[revolt426]

Nothing is set in stone as of now. I wish there were a way of reaching out to the people of Russia and even Iran to enlighten them about our tyranical government. They need to understand that the majority of educated Americans are completely against this U.S. / Israeli provocation and that we are aware our media is completely lying to us. If only there were a way to reach mainstrean Russian and Iranian public that are probably under a propaganda mechanism themselves...... perhaps we should try looking for Russian message boards etc.... i dunno.. i'm so depressed

[lordssyndicate]

Damn if the Elite don't realy seem to want to do everything they can to try to force  Russia into a nuclear strike .

Nice cartoon post dogma....
On a more serious note pravda's Current Headlines :

http://english.pravda.ru/topic/georgia_ossetia-603/

USA shows its meanness again as Russia mourns victims of genocide
Front page / Hotspots and Incidents / Conflicts
13.08.2008    Source: Pravda.Ru

Georgia’s President Mikhail Saakashvili accepted the cease-fire conditions for the zone of the conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia and signed the document, which had been coordinated Tuesday between the presidents of Russia and France.

“We have coordinated the text of the entire document with President Saakashvili and introduced certain corrections,” Sarkozy said after the talks with Saakashvili in Tbilisi late Tuesday.

The document will be presented for the meeting of foreign ministers of all 27 countries of the European Union. “The ministers will approve the document, it will become a resolution and will have legal force,” the French president said.

As for the corrections introduced in the document, Sarkozy said that they had withdrawn the part about the international discussion of the future political status of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Instead, Sarkozy and Saakashvili emphasized the need to conduct international negotiations to guarantee stability and security in these two regions of Georgia.

“We are signing this document about the basic principles under the conditions of the humanitarian catastrophe. The most important aspect of the document is to cease fire. The regulation process should be initialized,” Georgia’s President Saakashvili said.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice hopes that the Russians will stop military operations, the scale of which does not match the circumstances, as she said in an interview with ABC.

Condoleezza Rice stated that Moscow’s integration in world’s biggest institutions was at risk because of the armed conflict.

“The Russians have said that they do want to be a part of that prosperous and forward-looking international community, and frankly they are doing great damage to their ability to do that," Rice told ABC.

"There are any number of opportunities for Russia to reverse course and to demonstrate that it is trying to behave according to 21st century principles," she said. "But, I can assure you that Russia's international reputation and what role Russia can play in the international community is very much at stake here."

Rice stated that the time, when the world would have to deal with the consequences of what happened in South Ossetia and Georgia, would come, although she did not specify what consequences Russia may eventually face.

The US Secretary of State repeated several times that Russia had a lot to lose, including its international reputation and its role in the international community.

Condoleezza Rice’s anti-Russian remarks became yet another demonstration of double standards of the Bush’s administration in terms of sovereignty and territorial integrity, ITAR-TASS reports. Washington blatantly ignored these principles several months ago, when it recognized the independence of Kosovo, an inseparable part of Serbia. However, it just so happens that the US administration sees the sovereignty principles highly important when it comes to Georgia. Rice particularly stated that since South Ossetia and Abkhazia sit within the internationally recognized borders of Georgia, any regulation of conflicts must be based on the territorial integrity of Georgia.

In the meantime, Russian President Medvedev signed a decree to declare August 13 the mourning day in Russia in connection with the humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia.

“Despite the agreements on peaceful regulation of the situation in the zone of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict and contrary to the UN Charter, Georgia’s armed forces illegally invaded the territory of South Ossetia on August 8, 2008. Using aviation and heavy artillery, the armed forces of Georgia attempted to seize South Ossetia, exterminating its civilians. Georgia has thus committed genocide of the South Ossetian nation, destroyed the city of Tskhinvali and other settlements, which resulted in a humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia,” the decree runs.

“In addition, Georgia attacked the military contingent of the armed forces of the Russian Federation, which was deployed in the region in accordance with international agreements to normalize the situation in the area of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict. This is classified as an act of aggression as per Resolution of the UN General Assembly of December 14, 1974,” the document says[/quote]


And then This:

Georgia gets the jitters as Russia outlines its requirements
Front page / Hotspots and Incidents / Conflicts
12.08.2008    Source: Pravda.Ru

Presidents of Russia and France, Dmitry Medvedev and Nicolas Sarkozy, have come to an agreement on the regulation of the conflict in South Ossetia. The agreement is based on six principles, Interfax reports. Medvedev described the six principles during a joint press conference with his French counterpart.

“The first principle – not to use force. The second – to definitively stop all military actions. The third – to provide free access to humanitarian aid. The fourth – Georgia’s armed forces must return to the places of their permanent deployment. The fifth – Russia’s armed forces will be withdrawn to the positions preceding the beginning of the military actions. The sixth – the start of the international discussion of issues of the future status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia by means of guaranteeing their solid security,” Medvedev said.

When asked why Russia decided to halt military actions in S. Ossetia today, Medvedev said: “The operation, which the Russian forces were conducting, has brought its results. That is why we have ended it.”

“It was supposed to be done today, not yesterday or tomorrow. We herewith made a temporal decision to cease fire until the problem is entirely solved within the framework of the principles which we have just named,” the Russian president said.

Dmitry Medvedev strongly refuted statements from the Georgian administration which said that Georgia had ceased fire in the conflict zone two days ago.

“As for the affirmation of the Georgian president, who said that Georgia ceased fire in the conflict zone two days ago – these are lies.” Medvedev said. “The Georgian forces were shelling peacemakers. Unfortunately, there were victims yesterday. In other words, there was no cease fire with Georgia,” he added.

“This is what differs those hell-raisers from normal people: it is very hard to stop them when they smell blood,” Medvedev said.

Russia ’s Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, emphasized that the Georgian troops must return to their barracks.

“All the rest will have no point without this condition. South Ossetian residents will hardly understand that they can return and restore their homes without this condition. If Georgia does not accept this condition, we will be forced to take other measures not to let the current situation, which has been formed as a result of Georgia’s aggression, repeat itself. This is the absolute condition for everything else,” Lavrov said.

“The fact that the president of France has completely agreed with that is important. We hope that the president of France will inform the Georgian administration of these principles,” the Russian foreign minister said.

In the meantime, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili goes into a tail-spin as he senses Russia’s anger. He announced Tuesday that Georgia was going to pull out from the Commonwealth of Independent States, a post-Soviet organization which unites nearly all ex-Soviet republics. Saakashvili made the announcement on a meeting in front of the building of the Georgian parliament in the center of Tbilisi.

“We are bidding final farewell to the Soviet Union. The USSR will never come back here. We urge Ukraine and other members of the CIS to leave the organization which Russia administers,” ITAR-TASS quoted the Georgian president as saying.

In addition, Saakashvili stated that he declared the Russian troops in Abkhazia and South Ossetia occupation troops.

[Cobra]

Nothing is set in stone as of now. I wish there were a way of reaching out to the people of Russia and even Iran to enlighten them about our tyranical government. They need to understand that the majority of educated Americans are completely against this U.S. / Israeli provocation and that we are aware our media is completely lying to us. If only there were a way to reach mainstrean Russian and Iranian public that are probably under a propaganda mechanism themselves...... perhaps we should try looking for Russian message boards etc.... i dunno.. i'm so depressed

Funny because many Russian citizens know that both sides are to blame. Both sides have been provoking each other for quite some time now.
Iranians know that their government makes stupid moves too.

I can't believe that of all people those on this board are just taking everything Russia or AJ says on face value. The situation is a bit more complicated than this.

[Cobra]

Just one more thing.

People here are acting like Russia has a right to make Georgia it's puppet state. Why?
Russia wants Georgia to stop being a western puppet and become a Russian puppet. Is that any better?

[Cobra]

"Russian Forces are turning Gori over to Georgian Police on Thursday Morning."

Source: Lenta.ru

If this is true than some type of major deal has been struck.

[Capt. Obvious]

Funny because many Russian citizens know that both sides are to blame. Both sides have been provoking each other for quite some time now.
Iranians know that their government makes stupid moves too.

I can't believe that of all people those on this board are just taking everything Russia or AJ says on face value. The situation is a bit more complicated than this.

Yeah, it's like the Bloods and the Crypts getting too close to each other. Neither is good, neither is in the right or the wrong more than the other side. And we are just waiting for someone to step on someone else's shoe, or give a dirty look, or whatever before the gang war starts. And the chances of that happening are high.

[trailhound]

Cobra and Capt Obvious +1

 yeah whats the difference right?

 Georgia's initiation was cold blooded killing and knowing the forces at work in Georgia ( not Georgians) Russia seems more justified in its actions than Georgia. Also MSM is totally acting like Georgia is completely innocent and skewing the story to make Russia out to be sole aggressor in the situation. This is  probably why alex is concentrating a bit more on the parts the MSM  is not talking about and thus spending more time on the russian side of the story.

[trailhound]

AND this removes all doubt from my mind where at least ALOT of the aggression is coming from

Saakashvili told CNN Western leaders had "failed to analyze Russia's intentions" before it invaded Georgia  and "are partly to blame" for the current situation. iReport.com: Share your story of how the crisis is affecting you

"The response has not been adequate," Saakashvili said. "Not only those people who are committing all those atrocities are responsible, but those who don't react to that, I think they also share responsibility."

[The_lizard]

What i don't get is if they seriously want us to believe that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked what was their motive? Russia had Georgia for over 200 years, it's obviously a scam and they are being provoked.

[Godsforce]

For Cobra-I really don't get why the Georgians would bomb hospitals and universities.  It seems from all the reports I read Russians were trying to protect innocent civilians while the Georgians have no problem bombing innocent people. 

If Russia does want a puppet state, which it might, is besides the point.  The georgians were the first to bomb their own people.  Russia tried to protect those people (who are sympathetic to Russia). 

From my point of view Russia has tried to stop the killing of innocents while Georgia has killed innocents and enlisted mercernaries from around the world to do the killing.  That signals this is an international war with Russia fighting people from around the world.  Russia would be the most right in this conflict. 

[Freeski]

Russia would be the most right in this conflict. 

There is no Russia. There is no Canada. There is no United States of America. It's all a BIG scam. Yes, I love the idea of America but the truth is, nothing even remotely close to it exists on the planet today. "Russia" is a just a brand that everyone's heard of before.

[trailhound]

good call freeski

i've been wondering if this is all contrived to play all the name brands out.

[The_lizard]

Seriously, I've yet to hear a motive for invasion from the western media besides reestablishing the old soviet boundaries and that bullshit. At least the Russian media is providing us a reason for all of this. Also, Tbilisi is only 400 miles from Iran, and Russia has been building up their military in Moscow since may...

http://englishrussia.com/?p=1893#more-1893

http://englishrussia.com/?p=1889#more-1889

[Freeski]

good call freeski

i've been wondering if this is all contrived to play all the name brands out.

I learned, from working in PR, that virtually everything out of any "brand's" mouth is scripted. They even forecast the questions and prepare answers in advace. The thing is, truth doesn't even register on their list of options. They just create whatever message they want. It's one giant fiction... the whole damned thing.

[baldguy]

There is no Russia. There is no Canada. There is no United States of America. It's all a BIG scam. Yes, I love the idea of America but the truth is, nothing even remotely close to it exists on the planet today. "Russia" is a just a brand that everyone's heard of before.

Wow, never heard it said that way before. It has me thinking.

[Godsforce]

There is no Russia. There is no Canada. There is no United States of America. It's all a BIG scam. Yes, I love the idea of America but the truth is, nothing even remotely close to it exists on the planet today. "Russia" is a just a brand that everyone's heard of before.

Most countries in Europe, Americas, Africa and Asia are a scam, but some nations, which have been outcast from the global community, are not and are controlled by their government, whether it be a dictator or not.  

Russia is one of those rogue countries not under stringent influence of the international financiers.  While the banksters might have some influence I doubt this conflict is a game of footsy with Russia.  Russia did see the buildup of international forces in Georgia and the ostracization of ossetian people, so it did the reasonable thing.  They aren't putting on a show.  The International Financiers want control of the oil reserve Russia has laid claim to:  http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/24/business/arctic.php
Russia has become the richest country in the world by laying claim to this resource: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jul/29/russia.oil

If Lindsey Williams is right this is only the beginning of our troubles with Russia.

 

[Please Wake Up!]

I was watching CBS news and the President of Georgia was on there practically crying to Katie Couric (seriously).  Now, I don't know what the heck is going on in this conflict but that guy was seriously laying it on thick. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/13/world/main4346576.shtml

"in an interview Wednesday with CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric, Georgia president Mikhail Saakashvili sounded a defiant note.

"Russians have been telling us that we should give up fight for freedom, that we should succumb to this pressure. No matter how they bomb us, no matter how many of us they kill, no matter how they want to terrorize us, we will never give up our freedom. Georgia will never, ever surrender,'' he told Couric".


Then, you've got that bumbling idiot in McCain who said this:

"in the 21st century nations don't invade other nations."

Oh, ok, Johnny... Has he been sleeping through the last 5 years since we invaded Iraq 

[Freeski]

Wow, never heard it said that way before. It has me thinking.

Just think of how oblivious your friends and family really are. "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance", meaning there will ALWAYS be people wanting and trying to take control of you, so you must work to preserve your God given right to freedom.

The people today have no clue about what's going on around them, and it's that way by design. They've taught us from birth how to conform, how to behave, when to work, when to eat, what to eat, that to vote is your highest patriotic duty. We, us who are awake, are different for some reason. Anyone know why?

[Freeski]

Most countries in Europe, Americas, Africa and Asia are a scam, but some nations, which have been outcast from the global community, are not and are controlled by their government, whether it be a dictator or not.  

Russia is one of those rogue countries not under stringent influence of the international financiers.  While the banksters might have some influence I doubt this conflict is a game of footsy with Russia.  Russia did see the buildup of international forces in Georgia and the ostracization of ossetian people, so it did the reasonable thing.  They aren't putting on a show.  The International Financiers want control of the oil reserve Russia has laid claim to:  http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/24/business/arctic.php
Russia has become the richest country in the world by laying claim to this resource: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jul/29/russia.oil

If Lindsey Williams is right this is only the beginning of our troubles with Russia.

 

Regardless, the whole idea of a government that plans for a society is the very root of the scam. It enables a system to create itself and there is only one direction for it to go - socialism, democracy, communism, fascism, totalitarianism, either way it's a top down "planned and controlled" approach, rather than a ground-up organic thing.... you know, less rigid, more innovative, more fun and free... what a world we could have. We have to kill the system.

[Godsforce]

Regardless, the whole idea of a government that plans for a society is the very root of the scam. It enables a system to create itself and there is only one direction for it to go - socialism, democracy, communism, fascism, totalitarianism, either way it's a top down "planned and controlled" approach, rather than a ground-up organic thing.... you know, less rigid, more innovative, more fun and free... what a world we could have. We have to kill the system.

"Laws ensure Freedom" (or something close to that) is an ancient greek quote.  The problem today, as I see it, is the rules of law are not meted equally.  Here's a good video to explain the political spectrum:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-4kCD4nbrw (ignore the name Bob Barr as its misleading and has nothing to do with the movie.)

 

[baldguy]

There is no Russia. There is no Canada. There is no United States of America. It's all a BIG scam. Yes, I love the idea of America but the truth is, nothing even remotely close to it exists on the planet today. "Russia" is a just a brand that everyone's heard of before.

Freeski, this topic deserves a thread of its own.

[Rock]

Russia to U.S.: Choose us or Georgia
Russia pressed the United States on Wednesday to choose between "a real partnership" with Moscow or an "illusory" relationship with U.S. ally Georgia. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the United States is standing by Georgia. full story



http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/13/us.russia.diplomacy/index.html

[Freeski]

"Laws ensure Freedom" (or something close to that) is an ancient greek quote.  The problem today, as I see it, is the rules of law are not meted equally.  Here's a good video to explain the political spectrum:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-4kCD4nbrw (ignore the name Bob Barr as its misleading and has nothing to do with the movie.)

 

I absolutely LOVE JBS videos and I have seen this one. The ending of this vid is immense in that it shows the difference between a democracy and a republic, but they get anarchism soooooo wrong.