GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE

[70983]

If U.S. Attacks Russia, Russia will Use Nuclear Weapons
By Donal Fagan - August 12, 2008, 10:31AM
On Democracy Now, Retired Air Force Col. Sam Gardiner says, “If U.S. Attacks Russia, Russia will Use Nuclear Weapons”

Gardiner interview also on YouTube



On little notice to Americans, the Russians learned at the end of the first Gulf War that they couldn’t—they didn’t think they could deal with the United States, given the value and the quality of American precision conventional weapons. The Russians put into their doctrine a statement, and have broadcast it very loudly, that if the United States were to use precision conventional weapons against Russian troops, the Russians would be forced to respond with tactical nuclear weapons. They continue to state this. They practice this in their exercise. They’ve even had exercises that very closely paralleled what went on in Ossetia, where there was an independence movement, they intervene conventionally to put down the independence movement, the United States and NATO responds with conventional air strikes, they then respond with tactical nuclear weapons.

It appears to me as if the Russians were preparing themselves to do that in this case. First of all, I think they believe the United States was going to intervene. At a news conference on Sunday, the deputy national security adviser said we have noted that the Russians have introduced two SS-21 medium-range ballistic missile launchers into South Ossetia. Now, let me say a little footnote about those. They’re both conventional and nuclear. They have a relatively small conventional warhead, however. So, the military significance, if they were to be conventional, was almost trivial compared to what the Russians could deliver with the aircraft that they were using to strike the Georgians.

I think this was a signal. I think this was an implementation on their part of their doctrine. It clearly appears as if they expected the United States to do what they had practiced in their exercises. In fact, this morning, the Russians had an air defense exercise in the southern part of Russia that borders Georgia in which they—it was practicing shooting down incursion aircraft that were incursion into Russia. They were prepared for the United States to intervene, and I think they were prepared—or at least they were wanting to show the United States that their doctrine of the use of tactical nuclear weapons, if the US attacks, was serious, and they needed to take—the United States needs to take Russia very seriously.

[lordssyndicate]

Georgia files ethnic cleansing suit against Russia
http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=682964



(RTTNews) -  The goodwill of a mutually agreed ceasefire over the hostilities in Georgia seems to be swiftly withering away, as Georgia filed an ethnic cleansing suit against Russia at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) after Moscow achieved a crushing victory in the five-day war that killed hundreds of Ossetians and drove thousands of others from their homes.

The secretary of Georgia's Security Council, Kakha Lomaia said the Georgian ambassador to the Netherlands filed a lawsuit to the International Court of Justice "because of ethnic cleansing conducted in Georgia by Russia from 1993 to 2008."

The ICJ, based in Hague in the Netherlands, is empowered to rule on disputes between nations.

The alleged atrocities committed in South Ossetia have also been brought to the notice of the International Criminal Court (ICC), and its chief prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said he might launch a preliminary investigation into the allegations.

With Russian jet planes continue to bomb civilian targets in the former Soviet republic despite an official declaration by the Russian President that his government has decided to end hostilities in Georgia, the United States urged Russia to stop military operations immediately.

A statement issued by U.S. Secretary of State Condolleezza Rice after a conference call with her counterparts of the G7 said the foreign ministers agreed to initiate international efforts to facilitate the withdrawal of forces from the zone of conflict.

"We can then look to the issue of how to resolve the longstanding frozen conflicts of South Ossetia and Abkhazia," Rice said after briefing President George W Bush on the ongoing diplomatic efforts to resolve the crisis in Georgia.

Earlier, speaking at a joint news conference with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who is mediating between the two sides on a EU-sponsored peace proposal, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev insisted his forces would remain in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. "That has been the case and that will continue to be the case," Medvedev told reporters.

(RTTNews) -  Russia wants a buffer zone around Georgia's breakaway regions and is demanding that Georgia guarantees never to use force in the regions again.

With his foreign minister Bernard Kouchner, Sarkozy is taking Russia's peace terms to Georgia.

Even while announcing a ceasefire after five days of intense fighting that saw heavy casualties, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev sounded aggressive, saying that "The aggressor has been punished and suffered significant losses."

He also sent a warning note to the neighboring country, as he said that future Georgian attacks in the rebel region of South Ossetia should be "liquidated."

News of the ceasefire contributed to a continued decrease in the price of oil, with crude for September delivery closing down $1.44 at a new three-month closing low of $113.01 a barrel."

The acting Georgian ambassador to Britain, Georgei Badridze, was quoted as saying that Russian helicopter gunships hit civilian targets, including a hospital in the town of Gori and a minibus carrying civilians.

He said that the only way to prevent Russian aggression and safeguard Georgian democracy was for the West to allow Georgia to join NATO.

He sought the help of the international community to force the Russians leave Georgia.

Tuesday, Georgian authorities said Russia's air force made a second attempt to bomb the strategic Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, a charge the Russians refuted.

What an evil and total opposite of the truth -spin. Especially since Georgian troops - as ordered by their US commanders - are the ones commiting the ethnic cleansing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvZ3_ZN1Zb0

[Cobra]

If U.S. Attacks Russia, Russia will Use Nuclear Weapons
By Donal Fagan - August 12, 2008, 10:31AM
On Democracy Now, Retired Air Force Col. Sam Gardiner says, “If U.S. Attacks Russia, Russia will Use Nuclear Weapons”

Gardiner interview also on YouTube



On little notice to Americans, the Russians learned at the end of the first Gulf War that they couldn’t—they didn’t think they could deal with the United States, given the value and the quality of American precision conventional weapons. The Russians put into their doctrine a statement, and have broadcast it very loudly, that if the United States were to use precision conventional weapons against Russian troops, the Russians would be forced to respond with tactical nuclear weapons. They continue to state this. They practice this in their exercise. They’ve even had exercises that very closely paralleled what went on in Ossetia, where there was an independence movement, they intervene conventionally to put down the independence movement, the United States and NATO responds with conventional air strikes, they then respond with tactical nuclear weapons.

It appears to me as if the Russians were preparing themselves to do that in this case. First of all, I think they believe the United States was going to intervene. At a news conference on Sunday, the deputy national security adviser said we have noted that the Russians have introduced two SS-21 medium-range ballistic missile launchers into South Ossetia. Now, let me say a little footnote about those. They’re both conventional and nuclear. They have a relatively small conventional warhead, however. So, the military significance, if they were to be conventional, was almost trivial compared to what the Russians could deliver with the aircraft that they were using to strike the Georgians.

I think this was a signal. I think this was an implementation on their part of their doctrine. It clearly appears as if they expected the United States to do what they had practiced in their exercises. In fact, this morning, the Russians had an air defense exercise in the southern part of Russia that borders Georgia in which they—it was practicing shooting down incursion aircraft that were incursion into Russia. They were prepared for the United States to intervene, and I think they were prepared—or at least they were wanting to show the United States that their doctrine of the use of tactical nuclear weapons, if the US attacks, was serious, and they needed to take—the United States needs to take Russia very seriously.

That may very well be true. However, that threat should not deter a response that is just. I'm not saying in this case talking in the abstract.

[Cobra]

What an evil and total opposite of the truth -spin. Especially since Georgian troops - as ordered by their US commanders - are the ones commiting the ethnic cleansing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvZ3_ZN1Zb0

I guess you can blame Russia for arming the Ossetians in the early 1990's who eventually kicked out 40k+ Georgians living in Ossetia.
Blood feuds never end well.

So now the US ordered Georgian troops to ethnically cleanse Ossetians? how about the Russians accidentally (maybe not accidentally) bombing apartment buildings? Are Russians committing genocide as well?

[70983]

Just wait till our carriergroups start blockading Iran/ the Gulf

we only have a few days left in my opinion

load all of your guns, get ready for martial law

[lordssyndicate]

Well this should come as little suprise. The video footage posted by RT themselves that I linked to in my former post has been censored by YouTube :/ .

While I'm a little suprised  I half expected them to pull that video since, it shows the fact that Georgians are intentionally targetting civilians and  civillian police and have been fromthe begining. While Russia may have bombed an aparetment building - it is a stark contrast to Georgia  doing as much as possible to murder every S. Ossetian it can. That footage gets into the fact that the Georgians are leaving nosurvivors. They attack entire groups of refugees running away litterally rolling them all down with tanks. They are going into entire villages and stuffing the residents into their houses  and then burning them all alive.


Big big big difference there...


Also this footage was posted elsewhere on this forum but is an interview with an american who is there visiting his wife's family who lives in the region.  http://video.supernovatube.com/play.php?viewkey=43f9537dae01e96458ff

Who confirms the story  beingfg run by RUssia today as well.

Prada and many other major news outlets have also confirmed that the Georgians are the ones murdering  entire villages and apear to be acting as if they are under orders to leave no survivors of any kind in any of the regions they are attacking ....

[Brocke]

EU to consider symbolic action against Russia
12 Aug 2008 17:46:30 GMT
Source: Reuters

By Paul Taylor

BRUSSELS, Aug 12 (Reuters) - European Union foreign ministers on Wednesday will consider symbolic action against Russia to show their displeasure at its use of force against Georgia, EU diplomats said on Tuesday.

It was not clear whether Moscow's friends in western Europe, notably France, Germany and Italy, would agree to any statement or measure critical of Russia.

The 27-member EU called for an immediate ceasefire and urged Russia to respect Georgia's territorial integrity after fighting erupted in South Ossetia, but avoided blaming either side.

Poland and the Baltic states, wary of a resurgent Russia using its muscle to dominate neighbours, have condemned what they call aggression against Georgia but others are loath to risk ties with one of the EU's most important energy suppliers.

Lithuanian Foreign Minister Petras Vaitiekunas told Reuters ministers would discuss a range of measures including halting EU assistance, cancelling visa talks and reviewing negotiations on a new partnership agreement with Moscow.

"We want the EU to acknowledge the aggression by Russia," the minister from the former Soviet republic said.

"We have to discuss and revise our negotiations, because Russia's actions constitute a clear violation of international law and the United Nations charter, and such actions should have consequences," he said in a telephone interview.

FRENCH DIPLOMACY

EU diplomats said ministers would hear a report from French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, who has been mediating in Georgia, and could also discuss the idea of sending unarmed EU monitors or peacekeepers to observe a ceasefire.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, whose country holds the EU's rotating presidency, travelled to Moscow on Tuesday to seek support for a ceasefire and a peace plan. He was due to have talks in Georgia later in the day.

The diplomats noted the Group of Seven major powers had already taken one such step by holding telephone conferences on the situation in Georgia without involving Russia, the first time Moscow has been excluded from such meetings for a decade.

"That has been noticed in Moscow," one EU diplomat said.

Another possibility could be to withhold agreement for Russia to join the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, a Paris-based think-tank of industrialised states.

Ministers would first want to hear more details of what had been achieved by Sarkozy, another diplomat said.

"Central and Eastern European countries might like to take the opportunity to take a swipe at the Russians as one would expect," the diplomat said. "They may put these things forward, but I would not necessarily say that's going to be the outcome."

Two other EU foreign ministers have been involved in mediation efforts -- Finland's Alexander Stubb on behalf of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe and Sweden's Carl Bildt for the Council of Europe.

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana spoke on Tuesday to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. He welcomed the Russian leader's order to end fighting and expressed the EU's readiness to contribute to a solution to the crisis, a spokeswoman said.

While some EU countries have called for European peacekeepers or monitors for Georgia's two rebel regions, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, there was no indication Russia, which has the upper hand militarily, would accept such a move.

Sweden's Bildt said in a blog written from Tbilisi that Russia's goal "appears to be to damage Georgia militarily and economically to such an extent that its capacity to resist politically, is severely weakened".

"After that, I expect, political conditions (for an end to the conflict) will be dictated," he wrote.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LC444983.htm

[mike E. dangerously]

Fidel Castro: Cannon Fodder for the Market
http://www.plenglish.com/Article.asp?ID=%7B625D5EEF-3E2D-48C0-BA19-871D4E085B19%7D&language=EN


Havana, Aug 12 (Prensa Latina) Cuban leader Fidel Castro stated that the government of Georgia would never have launched its armed forces against the capital of the Autonomous Republic of South Ossetia in the dawn of August 8th, engaged in what it called the re-establishing of constitutional order, without previous coordination with Bush.


Fidel Castro stressed that Bush, last month in Bucharest, had committed to support President Saakashvili for Georgia’s admission to NATO; that is like plunging a sharpened dagger deep into Russia’s heart.



In his Tuesday Cubadebate article entitled "Cannon Fodder for The Market," the Cuban leader said that if Russia today is no longer a Communist threat and it no longer has more than 400 nuclear launching-pads directly aimed at Europe’s military and strategic targets since they were dismantled after the demise of the USSR, why do they seem determined to surround it with a nuclear shield? The old continent also needs peace.

Prensa Latina is posting below the full text of Fidel Castro's reflection.

REFLECTIONS BY COMRADE FIDEL

CANNON FODDER FOR THE MARKET

Perhaps some governments are unaware of the concrete facts, and so for that reason Raúl’s message setting Cuba’s position seemed to us to be very timely. I shall be generous in the aspects that cannot be dealt with in a brief and precise official statement.


The government of Georgia would never have launched its armed forces against the capital of the Autonomous Republic of South Ossetia in the dawn of August 8th, engaged in what it called the re-establishing of constitutional order, without previous coordination with Bush who, last month in Bucharest, committed to support President Saakashvili for Georgia’s admission to NATO; that is like plunging a sharpened dagger deep into Russia’s heart.


Many European states that are members of that military organization are seriously concerned about the irresponsible manipulation of the nationalities issue, fraught with potential conflict, which within Great Britain itself might result in the disintegration of the United Kingdom. This is how Yugoslavia was dismantled: Tito’s efforts to avoid it proved useless after his death.


What need was there to light the powder keg of the Caucasus? How often is the jug taken to the well before it shatters? Russia continues to be a strong nuclear power. It has thousands of such weapons. On the other hand, I must recall that the Western economy illegally siphoned out more than 500 billion dollars from that country.


If Russia today is no longer a Communist threat and it no longer has more than 400 nuclear launching-pads directly aimed at Europe’s military and strategic targets since they were dismantled after the demise of the USSR, why do they seem determined to surround it with a nuclear shield? The old continent also needs peace.


The Russian troops stationed in South Ossetia were sent there on an internationally recognized peace mission: they were not shooting wantonly.


Why did Georgia choose August 8th, at the time the Olympic Games were being opened in Beijing, to occupy Tskhinvali, the capital of the Autonomous Republic? On that day, four billion people on the entire planet were watching on television the marvelous spectacle with which China was opening those games.


Only the American people could not enjoy a live broadcast of the exciting festival of friendship among all the people of the world that was staged there.



The monopoly over the broadcasting rights had been bought by a television channel that had paid 900 million dollars and wanted to earn maximum commercial dividends for every minute of broadcasting time.


The rival corporations got even by covering news of the war in the Caucasus since this was nobody’s exclusive. The dangers of a serious conflict were threatening the world.



Bush did enjoy the spectacle as an official guest. On Sunday the 10th, two and a half days later, he could still be seen waving flags, pretending to be a champion of peace and preparing to delight in the victories of the excellent American athletes, those which his eyes, accustomed to besmirching everything, were looking upon as the symbol of the power and superiority of his empire.


In his moments of leisure, he held long conversations with his officials in Washington, threatened Russia and encouraged the humiliating speeches against that country given by the representative of the United States in the UN Security Council.



Some of the countries that had made up the socialist bloc or been part of the USSR itself are today acting as United States protectorates.


Their governments, driven by a reckless hatred for Russia, --such as the case of Poland and the Czech Republic-- aligned themselves in positions of absolute support for Bush and for the surprise attack on South Ossetia by Saakashvili, an adventurer with a bizarre background who was born under Socialism in Tbilisi, the capital of the country, graduated as a lawyer from a Kiev university and took postgraduate courses in Strasburg, New York and Washington. He was a practicing lawyer in New York City. He comes off as a Westernized Georgian, greedy and opportunistic. He returned to his country supported by the Yankees and then went fishing in the tempestuous river of the USSR disintegration. He was elected President of Georgia in January 2004.



Following the United States and Great Britain, that is the country with most soldiers in the Iraqi war adventure; and not precisely out of internationalist sentiment. When Cuba, throughout almost two decades, sent hundreds of thousands of combatants to fight for independence and against colonialism and apartheid in Africa, they were not seeking fuel, raw materials or capital gains: they were volunteers. Thus our steel-like principles were forged.


What are Georgian soldiers doing in Iraq if not supporting a war which has cost that people hundreds of thousands of lives and millions of victims? What ideals are they defending there? It is only natural that people from South Ossetia do not wish to be sent as soldiers to fight in Iraq or in other parts of the planet at the behest of imperialism.



Saakashvili, on his own, would never have jump to the adventure of sending the Georgian army into South Ossetia, where he would be clashing with Russian troops stationed there as a peace force. A nuclear war is not something to fool around with; and providing cannon fodder to the market cannot be rewarded.



This reflection was already drafted when Bush spoke at 5:30 p.m. Cuban time. But none of what he said changes what we are analyzing here: if only the U.S. government media war is today even much more intense. It is the same prefabricated maneuver that fools no-one.


The Russians have very clearly stated that the withdrawal of the invaders to their positions prior to the conflict is the only decent solution possible. Let’s hope that the Olympic Games can continue without interruption by a very serious crisis. The women’s volleyball match with a good U.S. team was great and baseball has yet to begin.

We sholud all listen to old uncle Fidel what other leader in the world has as much experiance with dealing with US proxies?

[NotSure]

Typical Israeli/Neo-con strategy I've seen over and over again, the aggressors playing the victim, now if Russia or Ossetia complain about the original genocidal attack it will have much less meaning to the genpub, not doing that first is the first Russian mistake I've seen, other than that I think they've done a perfect job, especially if they DID bomb that pipeline, taking over the Black Sea area was essential too.

So this just popped on Yahoo front page under the headline "Ossetians accused of carrying out 'massacre' of ethnic Georgians" What a bunch of crap.

Tbilisi alleges 'massacres' near South Ossetia

TBILISI (AFP) - A senior Georgian government official alleged Tuesday that ethnic Ossetians were carrying out "massacres" of ethnic Georgians near the rebel province of South Ossetia.
 
"South Ossetians supported by Russians are committing horrible massacres in Georgian villages," Georgian National Security Council Secretary Alexander Lomaia told AFP. His charge could not be verified independently.

His comments came two days after Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and other top Russian officials accused the Georgian government and its troops of committing "genocide" against ethnic Ossetians in the province.

They also coincided with Georgia filing a complaint in The Hague with the International Court of Justice for "ethnic cleansing" in its conflict with Russia.

Earlier Tuesday, the Georgian foreign ministry also released a statement saying Russian soldiers in South Ossetia were standing by as Ossetian separatists committed acts of "ethnic cleansing."

"South Ossetian separatists entered the village of Disevi in Gori district and committed acts of ethnic cleansing, burning houses and attacking the population," the ministry said charged.

[ramallamamama]

Just wait till our carriergroups start blockading Iran/ the Gulf

we only have a few days left in my opinion

load all of your guns, get ready for martial law

Check! 

[Capt. Obvious]

You know, it seems that all sides have been liberally throwing around terms like 'genocide' and 'massacre' and 'ethnic cleansing.' I am doubtful that either sides is doing this, although I don't doubt they are killing civilians and stuff. I just think there is some serious hyberbole going on in efforts to sway pubic opinions.

[NotSure]

You know, it seems that all sides have been liberally throwing around terms like 'genocide' and 'massacre' and 'ethnic cleansing.' I am doubtful that either sides is doing this, although I don't doubt they are killing civilians and stuff. I just think there is some serious hyberbole going on in efforts to sway pubic opinions.

I agree, but if you see "ethic cleaning" are the words the MSM is using regarding what they say the Russians/Ossetians did, I used genocide because Georgians/US/Isreal went straight for the civilians, the university, the children, burned people alive, etc. that news came out on Friday, I saw pictures of the corpses before Russia had even started bombing. I believe initial reports are the ones that are usually the most truthful (look at 9/11, dancing Israeli's, Bldg. 7 Warnings, etc.), especially since I have watched the spin since then and how absurdly WWF it has been, and look now, the Ossetians are the supposedly the thugs? And people I know buy it! that really pisses me off!

[Capt. Obvious]

I used genocide because Georgians/US/Isreal went straight for the civilians, the university, the children, burned people alive, etc.

That's not genocide. That's targeting non-combatants. It wouldn't necessarily even be genocide if they killed everyone in a particular location. It would only be genocide if they were killing people based on their ethnicity or other "genetically-inherited" trait. And if the people in Ossetia aren't really ethnically different, then there really is no way Georgia could be committing genocide against the people in Ossetia. And I think everyone knows I am not trying to minimize any atrocities going on, just that some atrocities aren't really genocide.

[NotSure]

It would only be genocide if they were killing people based on their ethnicity or other "genetically-inherited" trait. And if the people in Ossetia aren't really ethnically different, then there really is no way Georgia could be committing genocide against the people in Ossetia. And I think everyone knows I am not trying to minimize any atrocities going on, just that some atrocities aren't really genocide.

Just because they are not that ethnically different doesn't mean that they have not been trying to get them out of S. Ossetia since at least 1918. I read about the 1918-1920 war yesterday on wikipedia, you are all gonna think I'm crazy but it has been altered since! NO MENTION of it anymore, that I've been able to find today. There was ethnic cleaning going on then and many Ossetians fled north, the ones who stayed in their homeland were forced to drop Latin for Georgian which is a sign of tyranny to me, like when Japan banned Koreans from speaking Korean.

This is the closest sentence I could find:

With the rising of ethnic tensions in South Ossetia in the late 1980s, the 1918-20 thematic surfaced again, with conflicting narratives and interpretations of the conflict. The South Ossetians consider those events as part of their struggle for self-determination and claim that the Georgian reaction to the uprisings was genocide.


Georgian–Ossetian conflict (1918-1920)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian-Ossetian_conflict_(1918-1920)

[Capt. Obvious]

Just because they are not that ethnically different doesn't mean that they have not been trying to get them out of S. Ossetia since at least 1918.

I know that. I even said something to that effect. Murdering someone for different reasons doesn't make murder less worse. I'm not trying to downplay what is going on. I just think people are getting carried away with terminology, and I think they are doing it for the prupose of trying to persuade people to their opinion. Like, we know that Saddam was not sweetheart, and has plenty of blood on his hands, yet people still claimed that babies were thrown out of incubators. The fact that that wasn't true doesn't excuse anything else he did, but it's still not true.So when I hear that the Georgians or Russians are committing 'genocide' I'm like, whatever, until I see evidence of that. Not evidence of doing bad things, evidence of trying to kill everyone of a particular ethnicity.

[Modzilla_Kicker]

The Islam Connection In The Caucasus:

The day after his accession to power, Georgian President Mikhael Saakashvili adopted a new national flag, clearly demonstrating the commitment of the political regime to Christian values. The Five Crosses (of King David) on this new flag are there to signify that the country wants to resume links with its Christian past and that it wants to put Christian spirituality in the centre of its national construction. The crucial role of the Church in the history of Georgia, which was one of the first States to adopt Christianity as an official religion after Armenia, explains for the most part why, after 70 years of militant atheism under the USSR, and since its independence, the State has reintroduced Christianity. In the 19th century, after all did not the Georgian nationalists centre themselves round the motto “Language, fatherland and (Christian) faith”?

http://www.caucaz.com/home_eng/breve_contenu.php?id=177

[Cobra]

Well this should come as little suprise. The video footage posted by RT themselves that I linked to in my former post has been censored by YouTube :/ .

While I'm a little suprised  I half expected them to pull that video since, it shows the fact that Georgians are intentionally targetting civilians and  civillian police and have been fromthe begining. While Russia may have bombed an aparetment building - it is a stark contrast to Georgia  doing as much as possible to murder every S. Ossetian it can. That footage gets into the fact that the Georgians are leaving nosurvivors. They attack entire groups of refugees running away litterally rolling them all down with tanks. They are going into entire villages and stuffing the residents into their houses  and then burning them all alive.


Big big big difference there...


Also this footage was posted elsewhere on this forum but is an interview with an american who is there visiting his wife's family who lives in the region.  http://video.supernovatube.com/play.php?viewkey=43f9537dae01e96458ff

Who confirms the story  beingfg run by RUssia today as well.

Prada and many other major news outlets have also confirmed that the Georgians are the ones murdering  entire villages and apear to be acting as if they are under orders to leave no survivors of any kind in any of the regions they are attacking ....

Pravda and other Russian newspapers? You do know that virtually all media outlets in Russia are state controlled or state sanctioned. Within his first few years in office Putin closed down many media outlets which did not tow the party line. Especially regarding the Russian war in Chechnya.

There very well may have been incidents of Georgian troops acting like animals. The history between the 2 peoples is not one of love and happiness. They have been at war with each other for close to 20 years (in fairly modern times) and I would expect that many on both sides know people killed by the other side.

However, do we have enough evidence that this was a systemic policy? No, not as of today. Russia claiming Georgia is committing genocide is the same as Georgia claiming Russia is committing genocide.  If the Georgians are murdering entire villages than there'd be more than 2k dead. The number of 2k is coming from the Russians themselves.

Maybe more information will come out to substantiate that but we have to wait and see.

btw, If I was a soldier in an armed conflict I would consider a civilian policeman on the other side a soldier too.

[revolt426]

Ok so the U.S. Media is demonizing Russia when they can but the truth is kinda slipping out. McCain is acting like a tough guy and calling for Russia to be a good dog and sit, however Bears dont listen to commands like dogs, and Russia is a bear. Anyway the U.S. media is spinning this situation as beneficial to the McCain campaign right now i'm listening to cooper on CNN. Cooper's propaganda suggested that McCain looked better because of his tough stance against Russia. The media has been attacking Obama more lately anyone think this may be a big stunt to assure McCain gets office? Just an idea... among all the others. I dunno McCain needed an October suprise and with all the anti Obama and fake "National Security" issues that arose within the last month, McCain becomes the alternative to Obama for the Independents and he just seems to be neck and neck with Obama and gaining ground. This theory would fit into the 1 NWO controls all theory as opposed to the Multiple sects that fight amongst eachother theory. There is plenty of evidence for both so i'm just throwing ideas out there. Either way as far as the presidential race goes, McCain's bullshit "National Security" experties would get many sheep to vote for him over Obama, whom has no experiance in that area...... McCain's managers even said a incident would help his campaign. He Benefits from this.

[revolt426]

U.S. blocks Russia-NATO Council meeting
NATO has hailed Russia's decision to halt its military operation in South Ossetia as good news. But Jaap de Hoop Scheffer says Georgia's actions in South Ossetia will not affect its chances of joining the military alliance. However, the U.S. has blocked an emergency NATO-Russia Council meeting on the situation in South Ossetia.
http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28902

CNN is completely demonizing russia while simoultaniously admitting that Georgia invaded Ossetia.Then they keep misguiding the audience into believing S. Ossetia was Georgian territory, neglecting to mention they had declared independence.  This is making me sick because they are telling the truth and the people are so captivated by their spin that they ignore it or misunderstand it.
ALSO ON CNN "Bush: "....Considering expelling Russia From G8"
This is not good     They are going for blood..... total Cold War Propagana And yea it has Zbigniew Brzezinski tactics but i still think McCains national security propaganda will help his campaign now with the sheep. The McCain Camp. are currently running the 3am whitehouse call(McCain's version of Hillary add) on CNN as i type. so... I have no idea who is pulling Putins strings but the people pulling the US/Israel/Britain strings are putting out total cold war or even nuclear war propaganda.

[Protean]

Webster Tarpley  on Jeff Rense now: Network 3

Georgian Russian War report.

Use your media player to listen--

GCN Members--Network 3

http://www.gcnlive.com/Listen_Live.html

[revolt426]

More disgusting propaganda This time from a major players mouth.
Zbigniew Brzezinski Essentially Compares Putin to Hitler and suggests that McCain's position is not enough, argues for world condemnation of russia, economic santions etc... Even suggesting Nato should reach out to Georgia. Regardless of his rantings the 'Russia is evil' theme continues thoughout the interview...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-gardels/brzezinski-russias-invasi_b_118029.html

[larsonstdoc]

    Brzezinski and McCain are madmen!!

[la Resistance]

...Can I get a witness?

This is just a testament to how utterly corrupt our News system is and how stupid our journalists are.

They all say that Russia is advancing the hostilities; they are not.

It was Georgia who stuck their nose in, their bastard president, fascist tyrant.

S. Ossetia has been autonomous for years, since 1990, like Abkhazia; and Georgia's jackass president was elected because he said he would re-unite the territories. He was the initiator of the conflict and he is the real terrorist.

This is Georgian nationalism and fascism at its' finest.

They think that the US will jump in.

You know, I hate to say it, but in this case I fully support the Russian involvement on the behalf of S. Ossetia - they are not the ones who were murdering in the autonomous region - even our news reports stated that they were attacking Georgian military positions.

I mean here you are, this region which seek their freedom and liberty, not provoking Georgia, and Georgia's prick of a president initiates a brutal and bloody assault out of basically nowhere after being REPEATEDLY told by the international community NOT TO USE FORCE and now the stupid bastard looks to the US with his finger up his arse and a puppy-dog look on his face expecting a nation that is over-extended and in a recession to come to aid his stupid ass.

I mean seriously, he is responsible for bringing this on Georgia.

I can imagine Putin doing everything in his strength to not directly attack Georgia to make a point.

I'd have the black ops team in place gunning for Georgia's president, the fascist tyrant.

And all our putsy media are busy telling us how bad Russia are for getting involved - forgetting that they have the peacekeeping force, S. Ossetians are commonly Russian citizens, and GEORGIA initiated the hostilities.

I hope Russia repels the Georgians back to their huts, and brings death to the tyrants.

All the while we're probably selling the bullets to both sides.

[revolt426]

I think putins actions are reasonable and actually intelligent. He is using restraint and negotiating with France. Hey will gain credibility and good PR for his actions as far as most Nations go, however here in the U.S. we have the largest herd of sheep on the planet and they will not notice it. Cheney is a murdering coward that loves to threaten people  but he's got nothing beyond his big fckin mouth.

[ConcordeWarrior]

Israeli Has $1 Billion Invested in Georgia

(IsraelNN.com) The Israeli-Georgia connection is estimated to be worth $1 billion, according to a former Georgian ambassador to Israel. The Jewish state and private investors have provided military assistance and advisors to Georgia, where pipelines pump oil destined for Israel. A new pipeline is being built to bypass Russian territory.
 
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that Israeli companies in Georgia have begun evacuating their staff and that Israeli tourists are leaving for home.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/151211

[revolt426]

1 Billion dollars = pocket change for the people that orchestrated this war

[ConcordeWarrior]

US sends more arms to Georgia – Israeli media

The United States is sending fresh supplies of weapons to Georgia from its base in the Jordanian port of Aqabah. That’s according to the Israeli newspaper – Maariv.

The paper says the US began flying weapons from the transport hub on Saturday.

According to Maariv, the US is hiring Russian-made freight planes belonging to UTI Worldwide Inc. to transport arms and ammunition to Georgia. The paper says the Pentagon is redirecting supplies to Tbilisi that were earmarked for Iraq.

The Aqabah terminal is used by the US to supply troops in Iraq. The American military relies on the hub mainly because it’s safer to use Aqabah than Iraq’s own ports in the Persian Gulf.

Georgia stocks a wide range of weapons from many sources. This is a strategic move in case Russia were to block off the channels through which it gets its military supplies.

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28832

Preparing for more fighting?

[gabba2k7]

uncheked and doubtful info. my translation. copyright from http://osinform.ru/

In Tbilisi people are warn about provocations of the USA in the central and the western Georgia Yesterday, 14:12 

"In Tbilisi  IСQ-users receive the message about provocations possibility: "In the Western Georgia, in Kutaisi, groups of ukraine nationalists from the Western Ukraine and Baltic nationalists who have changed clothes in the Russian form are generated and have received the Russian weapon. Many cities of the Western Georgia are now left by the Georgian armies and police, therefore there full anarchy, the population is given to itself and is without protection.

According to military journalists, certain сountry while using Ukrainians and Balts prepare grandiose provocation - mass atrocities among local population under the pretext of the Russian military men. All of them, certainly, speak Russian also white(skin) so the Georgian population will not distinguish them from russians. With these European "misters" of video-and photoequipment for recording "Russian" atrocities.

PROVOCATIONS ARE POSSIBLE IN THE NEAR FUTURE!"

Now all Georgia is disconnected from the domain RU

[gabba2k7]

So, fellaz.
If military actions had ended - information and diplomatic wars are continuing.

[la Resistance]

US sends more arms to Georgia – Israeli media

The United States is sending fresh supplies of weapons to Georgia from its base in the Jordanian port of Aqabah. That’s according to the Israeli newspaper – Maariv.

It'd be hard for Russia not to see that as an act of war nearly, if those armaments are going to be used to kill Russian soldiers and they are being supplied by America. It's the USA doing what it always does - war by proxy - and it's gone on too long! They're egging them on!

There is an endpoint! These cockroaches like Cheney just keep poking the sleeping bear, preparing to scuttle off when it rages to life (and fair enough - they're poking it with hot sticks!) THEY WILL HAPPILY SACRIFICE YOU, AMERICA. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR WELFARE, GEORGIA. All they care about is themselves.

Cheney is about 99.9% of the way to burning in hell.

Why we can't burn him at the stake here and now is anyone's guess.

[gabba2k7]

Cobra, Are you CIA agent? )))))

Tell me, How Russia had morraly (or other way) injured you?

and there are will be no more questions to you.

[gabba2k7]

how about the Russians accidentally (maybe not accidentally) bombing apartment buildings? Are Russians committing genocide as well?

genocide???have u heard about georgian civil looses? I dont. people from Georgia, with whom i have a talk - either. and as i know - official georgia TV-channels had not given any info.

bombing apartment buildings??? if u will put artillery (and equal meaning weapons) near georgia civil buildings - georgian people will be firstly evacuated, i think. and then such positions will be counter attacked or preventively attacked. so nothing strange that civil buildings can be damaged.

but maybe u ask ur georian friends to look at Tshinval?

[gabba2k7]

If U.S. Attacks Russia, Russia will Use Nuclear Weapons
By Donal Fagan - August 12, 2008, 10:31AM

Russia which wants to use nuclear weapons. favourable USA rhetoric.
Cobra, are u scared??? ))

FYI: in nuclear war (even if its possible) - can NOT be 1 side. Russian attack = attack on Russia. And the same for other side.

For people who can think : Please, find donal fagan, and put this statement deeply into his stupid butt. ok?

[Avers]

From the frontpage of cnn.com (though it will probably be edited soon enough) a typical example of how Shaakasvili tries to stoke up the situation again by lying:

Georgia president: Russia 'rampaging' through town


TBILISI, Georgia (CNN)  -- Georgia's president accused Russia on Wednesday of violating the terms of a cease-fire deal by attacking and "rampaging" through the Georgian town of Gori.

"As I speak, the Russian tanks are attacking the town of Gori and are rampaging through the town," President Mikheil Saakashvili told a news conference. "There is marauding. There is destruction of buildings."

However journalists in Gori, 15 miles (24km) over the South Ossetian border into Georgia, said they had seen no Russian tanks. Residents there told the journalists they had earlier seen "some" Russian tanks, but not in large numbers.

The cease-fire plan was announced Tuesday in Moscow after a trip by French President Nicolas Sarkozy. He said both sides had agreed to the plan.

It calls for both Georgian and Russian forces to retreat to the positions they held before the fighting over the separatist region of South Ossetia began last Thursday.

Saakashvili also accused Russia of the "carpet bombardment" of Tskhinvali, South Ossetia's capital, and setting up internment camps for residents there and the other separatist territory, Abkhazia.

The Associated Press earlier quoted Alexander Lomia, the head of Georgia's national security council, as saying 50 Russian tanks had entered Gori.

Meanwhile another top Georgian official told AP his country's troops had been completely driven from the separatist province of Abkhazia.

Temur Yakobashvili, the Cabinet minister for reintegration, told AP that Georgian troops had also been driven by Russian forces from the small part of Abkhazia they had held.

A Russian general on Tuesday said the Georgians had been driven out but by separatist forces and not the Russian military.


(snipped the rest of the artical as it is general news about the cease-fire agreement)

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/13/georgia.russia.war/index.html

[gabba2k7]

If the Georgians are murdering entire villages than there'd be more than 2k dead. The number of 2k is coming from the Russians themselves.

the number from Russians themselves - 1,6k+. and, dear friend, it is very possible, cauze tshinvali was suddenly striked. not everybody had had possibility to leave this area before the night strike, and especially after.

[baldguy]

This poll surprised me, the fact CNN pulled the poll does not.

             http://digg.com/politics/92_of_CNN_readers_Russia_s_actions_in_Georgia_justified

[bigron]

Russians Have Introduced Ballistic Missile Launchers Into South Ossetia.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20492.htm


Democracy Now Interviews Col. Sam Gardiner, retired Air Force Colonel. - Transcript and Audio

11/08/08 -- - -The Russians put into their doctrine a statement, and have broadcast it very loudly, that if the United States were to use precision conventional weapons against Russian troops, the Russians would be forced to respond with tactical nuclear weapons.

Watch Or Listen To This report

-Real Video Stream :
http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2008/aug/video/dnB20080811a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=45:45

- Real Audio Stream :
http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2008/aug/audio/dn20080811.ra&proto=rtsp&start=45:45

AMY GOODMAN: We turn to the escalating conflict between Russia and Georgia. Amidst reports of over 2,000 dead and 40,000 displaced, NATO’s Secretary General and President Bush have both condemned Russia’s “disproportionate” use of force in Georgia.
 

After four days of heavy fighting, Russian tanks are now approaching central Georgian cities away from the separatist regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Russian officials say Georgia provoked the assault by attacking South Ossetia late last week, causing heavy civilian casualties. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili told journalists he signed a ceasefire proposal Monday, but news reports indicate the fighting continues.
 

Georgia is a close US ally, and despite Russian objections, the US has backed Georgia’s bid to enter NATO. On Friday, at the Security Council, the United States and Britain appeared to back the Georgian invasion. Georgia also plays a pivotal role in the supply of oil from the Caspian region to the West, as the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline runs through much of the country.
 

Retired Air Force Colonel Sam Gardiner has been closely following the conflict. His reports are available on Danny Schechter’s “News Dissector” blog. Colonel Sam Gardiner joins us now on the phone. Welcome to Democracy Now!
 

Colonel Gardiner, are you with us? Colonel Gardiner is speaking to us from his home in the Washington, D.C. area. We’re just checking that phone line. Are you there? We’ll go to a music break, and then we’ll come back to what’s happening in Georgia. Stay with us.
 

[break]
 

AMY GOODMAN: We turn back now to the escalating conflict between Russia and Georgia. Amidst reports of over 2,000 dead, 40,000 displaced, NATO’s Secretary General, President Bush, both condemning Russia’s "disproportionate” use of force in Georgia.
 

After four days of heavy fighting, Russian tanks are now approaching central Georgian cities away from the separatist regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Russian officials say Georgia provoked the assault by attacking South Ossetia late last week, causing heavy civilian casualties. The Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili told journalists he signed a ceasefire proposal Monday, but news reports indicate the fighting continues.
 

Georgia is a close US ally. Despite Russian objections, the US has backed Georgia’s bid to enter NATO. On Friday, at the Security Council, the United States and Britain appeared to back the Georgian invasion. Georgia also plays a pivotal role in the supply of oil from the Caspian region to the West, as the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline runs through much of the country.
 

We’re now joined on the telephone by retired Air Force Colonel Sam Gardiner, who’s been closely following the conflict.
 

Welcome to Democracy Now!
 

COL. SAM GARDINER: Good morning.
 

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about this area that probably most people in this country have never heard of before.
 

COL. SAM GARDINER: Yes. It’s very interesting that it is probably what some analysts have called an area of frozen conflicts. After the Soviet Union dissolved, there remained areas in which, despite the fact that new states were created, there were tensions. One of those is the Ossetia or South Ossetia, which is where we’ve seen the fighting, and the other one, inside Georgia, is Abkhazia. There were agreements signed in the early 1990s that sort of solidified these as semi-independent territories. In one, there is a UN peacekeeping force, and then in South Ossetia, there is essentially independence, and, you know, they sort of ran their operations separate from the Georgian government.
 

And then, tensions began to increase over the past few months, because the president of Georgia has promised to retake—his words—retake the—particularly South Ossetia. That was a problem, because, by now, 90 percent of Ossetians there were holders of Russian passports. They had voted to become part of the Russian Federation. There was clear movement in the direction of this enclave, closer and closer ties with Russia. And then, last week, almost without announcement, the Georgians launched a strike into Ossetia with the apparent objective of putting this back under the Tbilisi control, back under the control of the Georgian government.
 

The Russians responded, responded probably in a way that was a great deal surprise to the Georgians, probably was also a surprise to the United States. And as of this morning, the Georgians seem to have pulled out of South Ossetia and the Russians have control of the capital city and are beginning to put in humanitarian aid.
 

The one issue left up in the air has to do with the other enclave, Abkhazia. There was a small portion of that enclave that was controlled by the Georgians. It was called the Kodori Gorge. Operations were launched there yesterday, some on Saturday night, in attempt to dislodge the Georgians and turn that territory over and completely make it independent from Georgian control. So, this morning, the fighting seems to be waning, although there are reports of still air strikes going on. It appears as if we have gotten through the heavy part of the fighting, but certainly not the important strategic consequences.
 

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about significance of this, in terms of nuclear warfare in Russia? Do we have anything to fear along those lines?
 

COL. SAM GARDINER: Absolutely. Let me just say that if you were to rate how serious the strategic situations have been in the past few years, this would be above Iraq, this would be above Afghanistan, and this would be above Iran.
 

On little notice to Americans, the Russians learned at the end of the first Gulf War that they couldn’t—they didn’t think they could deal with the United States, given the value and the quality of American precision conventional weapons. The Russians put into their doctrine a statement, and have broadcast it very loudly, that if the United States were to use precision conventional weapons against Russian troops, the Russians would be forced to respond with tactical nuclear weapons. They continue to state this. They practice this in their exercise. They’ve even had exercises that very closely paralleled what went on in Ossetia, where there was an independence movement, they intervene conventionally to put down the independence movement, the United States and NATO responds with conventional air strikes, they then respond with tactical nuclear weapons.
 

It appears to me as if the Russians were preparing themselves to do that in this case. First of all, I think they believe the United States was going to intervene. At a news conference on Sunday, the deputy national security adviser said we have noted that the Russians have introduced two SS-21 medium-range ballistic missile launchers into South Ossetia. Now, let me say a little footnote about those. They’re both conventional and nuclear. They have a relatively small conventional warhead, however. So, the military significance, if they were to be conventional, was almost trivial compared to what the Russians could deliver with the aircraft that they were using to strike the Georgians.
 

I think this was a signal. I think this was an implementation on their part of their doctrine. It clearly appears as if they expected the United States to do what they had practiced in their exercises. In fact, this morning, the Russians had an air defense exercise in the southern part of Russia that borders Georgia in which they—it was practicing shooting down incursion aircraft that were incursion into Russia. They were prepared for the United States to intervene, and I think they were prepared—or at least they were wanting to show the United States that their doctrine of the use of tactical nuclear weapons, if the US attacks, was serious, and they needed to take—the United States needs to take Russia very seriously.
 

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Colonel Sam Gardiner about this war that is taking place. Would you call it a war, Colonel Gardiner?
 

COL. SAM GARDINER: Well, you know, I like that term, and I wish I had invented it: it’s called "frozen conflicts.” It is in resolution of a conflict that’s been around for seventeen years. It was pushed off-center by the Georgians. Even the Georgians were reluctant to declare war. They declared a state of emergency. Certainly, the Russians haven’t declared war. In fact, I guess I would say, Amy, you know, with our war on terrorism, I don’t even know if there’s a definition of “war” anymore. Probably it’s best to call it a very serious conflict that could have been escalated.
 

AMY GOODMAN: And the significance of the pipeline that is there?
 

COL. SAM GARDINER: Well, the United States, beginning about ten years ago, obviously saw the vulnerability of the flow of oil out of the Persian Gulf. So the United States pushed very hard to set up a pipeline that went from Baku in Azerbaijan, taking out the Caspian Sea oil, to a port in Turkey, Ceyhan. That oil pipeline carries about one percent of the world’s oil supply.
 

Two weeks ago, that pipeline was blown up in a Turkish area by the Kurdish rebels that the Turks are fighting. There were reports that the Russians had bombed this over the weekend. Reports this morning, however, say—suggest that there hasn’t been an interruption, except that Azerbaijan has shut off flow in the pipeline. So this interferes with a major flow of oil to the economies of the West. It’s an important source of the oil flow.
 

AMY GOODMAN: Colonel Gardiner, I also wanted to ask you about the presidential candidates’ responses to the conflict—Senator Barack Obama and John McCain—the report coming out about John McCain’s adviser, Scheunemann—
 

COL. SAM GARDINER: Right.
 

AMY GOODMAN: —who helped a US firm win a Georgian energy firm deal while lobbying for Georgia’s NATO membership.
 

COL. SAM GARDINER: I must say that I have not heard a lot of good words from the McCain campaign about how to deal with this. It’s painful that the standard answer one gets is the testosterone-based foreign policy that we’ve seen for the last eight years. This is a very complex situation. And John McCain has said earlier that he wants to throw Russia out of the G8. That is absolutely the worst thing the United States could do. Russians have been saying—and the White House has not been listening—“We are a major player, and you have to listen to us.” This is the way the President said the Chinese are major players, and we now listen to them. The Russians have been saying that. The White House has ignored that.
 

I also would say, on the other hand, that this is one of those situations where Obama’s talk about it is probably not a good solution, either. The United States made some errors when it left the impression with the Georgians that our support somehow meant they were free to undertake this operation. That was clearly a bad idea that we communicated with them.
 

The other thing that is significant here is, there is an Israeli dimension to the problem. Israel has been training and supplying the army of Georgia. That’s caused some tensions within Israel, because there are those who believe that this just encourages the Russians to provide conventional arms to the Iranians. Israel has talked about it over the weekend, decided not to stop providing arms to the Georgians.
 

It isn’t over. There are a lot of strategic things that are going to fall out of this. Probably most important is that it’s not now Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran, it’s now Russia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran that our new president is going to have to deal with.
 

AMY GOODMAN: Colonel Sam Gardiner, I want to thank you for being with us. We’ll certainly continue to follow this conflict. Colonel Gardiner, retired Air Force colonel, has taught strategy and military operations at the National War College, as well as the Air War College and the Naval War College.

[bigron]

From his office in clouded cuckoo land:

Cheney: "Russian Aggression Must Not Go Unanswered"

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20491.htm

10/08/08 -- BEIJING (Reuters) - Vice President Dick Cheney called Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili to express U.S. solidarity in the conflict with Russia and told him "Russian aggression must not go unanswered," the vice president's office said on Monday.

"The vice president expressed the United States' solidarity with the Georgian people and their democratically elected government in the face of this threat to Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity," Cheney's office said in a statement.

REUTERS

Cheney: "Russian aggression must not go unanswered"

Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:27pm EDT


BEIJING (Reuters) - Vice President Dick Cheney called Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili to express U.S. solidarity in the conflict with Russia and told him "Russian aggression must not go unanswered," the vice president's office said on Monday.

"The vice president expressed the United States' solidarity with the Georgian people and their democratically elected government in the face of this threat to Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity," Cheney's office said in a statement.

It said Cheney, in a phone call on Sunday, told Saakashvili that "Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States, as well as the broader international community."

Cheney had remained in the United States while U.S. President George W. Bush, who spoke to Saakashvili earlier, was attending the Beijing Olympics.

Cheney's office released the statement as Georgia, a U.S. ally, offered Russia a ceasefire and peace talks after pulling troops back from rebel South Ossetia's capital, and mediators began a mission to end the internationally condemned fighting.

Some fighting still gripped parts of the Caucasus region, however, and Russia demanded an unconditional Georgian withdrawal.

The White House had warned Russia on Sunday that military escalation in the Georgia conflict could have a "significant, long-term impact" on relations between Washington and Moscow.

"President Saakashvili briefed the vice president on the Russian campaign against military and civilian targets throughout Georgia," Cheney's office said.

"The vice president praised President Saakashvili for his government's restraint, offers of cease-fire, and disengagement of Georgian forces from the zone of conflict in the South Ossetian region of the country," the statement said.

(Reporting by Matt Spetalnick; Editing by Sanjeev Miglani)

[bigron]

McCain accuses Russia of bidding to wipe out Georgia

By AFP
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20494.htm

12/08/08 -- - Republican White House hopeful John McCain said Monday Russia appears bent on extinguishing Georgia's independence as he demanded a united Western front to protect the former Soviet republic.

The United States should dispatch "immediate economic and humanitarian assistance to help mitigate the impact the invasion has had on the people of Georgia," McCain said in a statement he read to reporters in Pennsylvania.

"In the face of Russian aggression, the very existence of independent Georgia and the survival of its democratically elected government are at stake," the Arizona senator said.


McCain accuses Russia of bidding to wipe out Georgia

The Raw Story
Published: Monday August 11, 2008



Republican White House hopeful John McCain said Monday Russia appears bent on extinguishing Georgia's independence as he demanded a united Western front to protect the former Soviet republic.

The United States should dispatch "immediate economic and humanitarian assistance to help mitigate the impact the invasion has had on the people of Georgia," McCain said in a statement he read to reporters in Pennsylvania.

"In the face of Russian aggression, the very existence of independent Georgia and the survival of its democratically elected government are at stake," the Arizona senator said.

"Russian President (Dmitry) Medvedev and Prime Minister (Vladimir) Putin must understand the severe, long-term negative consequences that their government's actions will have for Russia's relationship with the US and Europe."

McCain called for an emergency session of NATO's executive council and for the West to press ahead with a UN Security Council resolution despite Russia's certain veto.

NATO should hold talks on deploying an international peacekeeping force to Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia, and review its decision against setting Georgia on the path to membership of the military alliance.

"NATO's decision to withhold a Membership Action Plan for Georgia might have been viewed as a green light by Russia for its attacks on Georgia, and I urge the NATO allies to revisit the decision," McCain said.

He also demanded an emergency meeting of G7 foreign ministers, although this had already come about by the time he delivered his statement with the ministers, in telephone talks, urging Russia to accept an immediate ceasefire.

While praising Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, and noting that he had met with him several times in Tbilisi, McCain thrice mispronounced the pro-Western leader's name as "Shaskavili."

In perhaps a sly dig at his Democratic rival Barack Obama, who has condemned the violence in Georgia while on holiday in Hawaii, McCain said Americans watching the Olympics or "vacationing" might see the crisis as a distant worry.

But he said Russia was trying to "intimidate" Ukraine and other pro-Western neighbors, and had "attempted to bomb" the strategic Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline that feeds oil from Central Asia to Europe.

"Whatever tensions and hostilities might have existed between Georgians and Ossetians, they in no way justify Moscow's path of violent aggression," the Republican said.

"Russian actions, in clear violation of international law, have no place in 21st century Europe."

[bigron]

A Path to Peace in the Caucasus

By Mikhail Gorbachev

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081101372_pf.html

12/08/08 "Washington Post -- - MOSCOW -- The past week's events in South Ossetia are bound to shock and pain anyone. Already, thousands of people have died, tens of thousands have been turned into refugees, and towns and villages lie in ruins. Nothing can justify this loss of life and destruction. It is a warning to all.

The roots of this tragedy lie in the decision of Georgia's separatist leaders in 1991 to abolish South Ossetian autonomy. This turned out to be a time bomb for Georgia's territorial integrity. Each time successive Georgian leaders tried to impose their will by force -- both in South Ossetia and in Abkhazia, where the issues of autonomy are similar -- it only made the situation worse. New wounds aggravated old injuries.

Nevertheless, it was still possible to find a political solution. For some time, relative calm was maintained in South Ossetia. The peacekeeping force composed of Russians, Georgians and Ossetians fulfilled its mission, and ordinary Ossetians and Georgians, who live close to each other, found at least some common ground.

Through all these years, Russia has continued to recognize Georgia's territorial integrity. Clearly, the only way to solve the South Ossetian problem on that basis is through peaceful means. Indeed, in a civilized world, there is no other way.

The Georgian leadership flouted this key principle.

What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas. Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against "small, defenseless Georgia" is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity.

Mounting a military assault against innocents was a reckless decision whose tragic consequences, for thousands of people of different nationalities, are now clear. The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force. Georgian armed forces were trained by hundreds of U.S. instructors, and its sophisticated military equipment was bought in a number of countries. This, coupled with the promise of NATO membership, emboldened Georgian leaders into thinking that they could get away with a "blitzkrieg" in South Ossetia.

In other words, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili was expecting unconditional support from the West, and the West had given him reason to think he would have it. Now that the Georgian military assault has been routed, both the Georgian government and its supporters should rethink their position.

Hostilities must cease as soon as possible, and urgent steps must be taken to help the victims -- the humanitarian catastrophe, regretfully, received very little coverage in Western media this weekend -- and to rebuild the devastated towns and villages. It is equally important to start thinking about ways to solve the underlying problem, which is among the most painful and challenging issues in the Caucasus -- a region that should be approached with the greatest care.

When the problems of South Ossetia and Abkhazia first flared up, I proposed that they be settled through a federation that would grant broad autonomy to the two republics. This idea was dismissed, particularly by the Georgians. Attitudes gradually shifted, but after last week, it will be much more difficult to strike a deal even on such a basis.

Old grievances are a heavy burden. Healing is a long process that requires patience and dialogue, with non-use of force an indispensable precondition. It took decades to bring to an end similar conflicts in Europe and elsewhere, and other long-standing issues are still smoldering. In addition to patience, this situation requires wisdom.

Small nations of the Caucasus do have a history of living together. It has been demonstrated that a lasting peace is possible, that tolerance and cooperation can create conditions for normal life and development. Nothing is more important than that.

The region's political leaders need to realize this. Instead of flexing military muscle, they should devote their efforts to building the groundwork for durable peace.

Over the past few days, some Western nations have taken positions, particularly in the U.N. Security Council, that have been far from balanced. As a result, the Security Council was not able to act effectively from the very start of this conflict. By declaring the Caucasus, a region that is thousands of miles from the American continent, a sphere of its "national interest," the United States made a serious blunder. Of course, peace in the Caucasus is in everyone's interest. But it is simply common sense to recognize that Russia is rooted there by common geography and centuries of history. Russia is not seeking territorial expansion, but it has legitimate interests in this region.

The international community's long-term aim could be to create a sub-regional system of security and cooperation that would make any provocation, and the very possibility of crises such as this one, impossible. Building this type of system would be challenging and could only be accomplished with the cooperation of the region's countries themselves. Nations outside the region could perhaps help, too -- but only if they take a fair and objective stance. A lesson from recent events is that geopolitical games are dangerous anywhere, not just in the Caucasus.

The writer was the last president of the Soviet Union. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990 and is president of the Gorbachev Foundation, a Moscow think tank. A version of this article, in Russian, will be published in the Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper tomorrow.

© 2008 The Washington Post Company