Molech. What does it mean?

Author Topic: Molech. What does it mean?  (Read 23873 times)

Offline Trade Mark

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Molech. What does it mean?
« on: June 24, 2008, 12:53:12 pm »
I took Hebrew and Ashkenazi Jewish conversion class back in Y2K in Fort Wayne Indiana.

2nd class we practiced the name of  King David. It went exactly like this:


Molech David ( pronounced -  Moleck Dahveed)

Molech David (King David)

Molech David

Molech David

Molech David



MoLech means King
King means God


Any idols of Molech are just anthro morphed of the King or way back when Molech David

Worship Molech = Worship the King

Bull horns = Crown

Horned Owl = Crown

Devil Horns = Crown

Stop misleading the mass of listeners please

Molech

Molech = The Crowned Pharoah  = Capstone = Reins the pyramid scheme

Nothing more nothing less.



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Offline Optimus

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 01:24:33 pm »
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

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JTCoyoté

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 01:40:28 pm »
Trade Mark...

You were being indoctrinated my friend... into the world of literal translation... for your duty in that part of the world... However, Baal,  Beelzebub, and Molech, are all false god idols, to which by the end of their reigns, hundreds of thousands if not millions of children were sacrificed... Add to these false gods, the 1972 Burger Supreme Court who so twisted the Constitution, that so far we have sacrificed 50 million...

I find it curious when Michael Reagan says that for every Lebanese baby on their first birthday they should receive a hand grenade up the ass....  Reagan is such a soft-spoken baby faced kind of guy... you will find that the evil has a banality about it... the practitioners are in fact boring... like Eichmann.

If you are still in the service, especially today, do you understand the nature of the demons that you serve.... Then you can understand why, they would associate that which has been known for centuries to be demonic, and evil... with King David... try to wrap your mind around the motives of those who are manipulating you...

You might try these King James Biblical passages...

 MOLECH ;

Also called MOLOCH and MILCOM

An idol of the Ammonites - Acts 7:43

Worshiped by the wives of Solomon, and by Solomon himself for a while - 1Kings 11:1-8

Children sacrificed to - 2Kings 23:10; Jeremiah 32:35; 2Kings 16:3; 21:6; 2Chronicles 28:3; Isaah 57:5; Jeremiah 7:31; Ezekiel 16:20,21; 20:26,31; 23:37,39

See - Leviticus 18:21; 20:2-5

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Offline Optimus

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 02:02:14 pm »
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D2.htm

TOPHET AND MOLECH IN HINNOM

In II Kings 23:10 we read:

"And he [King Josiah of Judah] defiled [destroyed] Topheth which is in the valley of the children [son] of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire of Molech."

DEPICTIONS OF MOLOCH/MOLECH: BAAL OF THE CANAANITES





Molech or Moloch, whose name probably derived from Melech "king," was one of the deities worshipped by the idolatrous Israelites. He was referred to as "the abomination of the children of Ammon" (1 Kings 11:7) and the primary means of worshipping him appears to be child sacrifice or "to pass through the fire." Solomon was said to have built a temple to him.

Molech was a god worshipped by the Canaanites, Phoenicians, and Ammonites. Foolish Israel began sacrificing her children in fire to this pagan god. The Canaanites were a Semitic people who occupied Palestine between the Jordan and the Mediterranean centuries before Israel invaded the land. The Phoenicians occupied what is today the area of Syria and Lebanon and were the foremost navigators and traders of the Eastern Mediterranean by 1250 B.C. The Ammonites (also a Semitic people) lived East of the Jordan in what is present day Jordan. The worship of Molech was well established centuries before Israel settled in the land of Palestine.

ANOTHER SPECULATION ON HOW MOLECH MAY HAVE LOOKED



But what has all this Molech/Tophet/Valley of Hinnom sacrificing have to do with us today? This is not something Christians today are guilty of so why try to tie it in with a study of Jesus threatening His disciples with "Gehenna fire?" Well, for one, the teachings of Jesus are likewise for His disciples today. The teachings on the Mount apply to all of the followers of Jesus down through the centuries. But is anyone today guilty of the sin prophesied in Isaiah 66 which introduces the "worm that dies not and the fire that is not quenched?" Surely godly men are not sacrificing to some dumb idol like Molech in a garden behind a tree today, are they?

IS THIS A MODERN SACRIFICE TO MOLECH? HOW MANY RECOGNIZE THIS MODERN SACRIFICIAL RITUAL?



Lots more to read here


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Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 02:17:49 pm »
Molech was a false god that the Ammonites sacrificed babies to.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=718&letter=M

http://www.searchgodsword.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T6121

Babies sacrificed to the King = Molech

Molech in Hebrew means King

Get it right

Molech = King
King = God

Molech = King

Molech David
Molech George
Molech James Version
Molech Tutanchaten

Molech = King = God

Basic Hebrew

Get it right and stop the nonsence
Bull horns = Crown
Horned Owl = Crown
Crown of Horns = Crown
Halo = Crown
Corona = Crown
Corona = Sun
Sun = Crown

You worship God you worship the King you worship the Crown Sun

Idols are images personified human
Man is the measure of all things

Thanks for the info but I took Ashkanazi Hebrew and Molech means King and Kings made statues of them self AKA idols and a false Idol = not the real idol.

any image of a Bull or Owl is simlpy anthro morphed image of the King/Molech
Worship Social order and you Worship the King = Living Sacrifice

Nothing more nothing Less
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Offline hyperqube

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 02:24:28 pm »
Babies sacrificed to the King = Molech

Molech in Hebrew means King

Get it right

Molech = King
King = God

Molech = King

Molech David
Molech George
Molech James Version
Molech Tutanchaten

Molech = King = God

Basic Hebrew

Get it right and stop the nonsence
Bull horns = Crown
Horned Owl = Crown
Crown of Horns = Crown
Halo = Crown
Corona = Crown
Corona = Sun
Sun = Crown

You worship God you worship the King you worship the Crown Sun

Nothing more nothing Less

stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, well God commanded specifically not to pass your children through the fire to Molech, a**

JTCoyoté

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 02:27:48 pm »
You have it wrong... you brainwashed sot!...

A Fort Wayne military class in 2000 and you are the expert on Mesopotamian linguistics...??

Hit yourself in the head with a baseball bat will you... It may knock in some sense...

JTCoyoté

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Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 02:31:13 pm »
Wanna stop worshipping Molech?

Then stop paying tax
Stop working
Stop Paying bills
Stop using Money
Stop Keeping clock Time
Stop watching TV
Stop buying Retail
Stop Going to Government Church
Stop being led astray
Stop listening to nonsence
Stop using Lawyers
Stop adhering to rules of Rulers
Stop being in Fear
Stop being Guilty
Stop eating from the controlled feeding program
Stop acting out roles from story book charactors


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Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 02:33:25 pm »
You have it wrong... you brainwashed sot!...

A Fort Wayne military class in 2000 and you are the expert on Mesopotamian linguistics...??

Hit yourself in the head with a baseball bat will you... It may knock in some sense...

JTCoyoté

"The common curse of mankind - folly and ignorance."
~ William Shakespeare


Humm. Perhaps its you thats baptized your brain. Wake up and smell the molech Bullshit.

Just get without the program.

Just cause its a talking point on the Show dont change the fact that people sacrificed to Molech and still do. The Bull idol is still Molech
The owl is stil Molech

Only Molech is an Idol of the King. Its just and explanation not an attck on your brain washing.We all have had our brains baptized.
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Offline Pupil

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 02:40:53 pm »
Quote
Molech = King
King = God
Bull horns = Crown
Horned Owl = Crown
Crown of Horns = Crown
Halo = Crown
Corona = Crown
Corona = Sun
Sun = Crown

Actually, if you get past Trade Mark's rediculously abrasive attitude, he's got an interesting linguistic point here.  The NWO is a sun-worshipping death cult.  Anyone who's listened to Jordan Maxwell or Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon series knows that.  They also have a billion different ways of representing Lucifer by twisting and confusing and hiding in plain sight what he's about.  Without knowing how to speak Hebrew, I'd say the linguistic train of thought TM is making is logical, and follows these occultists twisted pattern.

Not that any of this really matters, apart from in an academic sense.  Who they're doing mock sacrifices to matters very little - it's their first amendment right to be pagan freaks.  What's important is that they're out to pervert, distort, maim and murder the rest of us, and so they must be stopped.  Bickering about who Molech really is or what a statue represents does nothing to stop them.

Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 02:45:06 pm »
Baptized = Water bath to clean the pussy after the period = Micvah

BAT = Female

BathSheba = Female Daughter of King (molech) David = Soloman was Molech Davids Son from his Daughter = Grand-Sun = Son of a Son

BAR = Son

BAT and BAR

Ya got BATS in your BAR free

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Offline Pupil

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 02:47:49 pm »
Okay, I take that back; TM is either completely retarded, incapable of communicating rationally, or a loser fed trying to stir up arguments on a forum.

Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 02:49:53 pm »
Actually, if you get past Trade Mark's rediculously abrasive attitude, he's got an interesting linguistic point here.  The NWO is a sun-worshipping death cult.  Anyone who's listened to Jordan Maxwell or Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon series knows that.  They also have a billion different ways of representing Lucifer by twisting and confusing and hiding in plain sight what he's about.  Without knowing how to speak Hebrew, I'd say the linguistic train of thought TM is making is logical, and follows these occultists twisted pattern.

Not that any of this really matters, apart from in an academic sense.  Who they're doing mock sacrifices to matters very little - it's their first amendment right to be pagan freaks.  What's important is that they're out to pervert, distort, maim and murder the rest of us, and so they must be stopped.  Bickering about who Molech really is or what a statue represents does nothing to stop them.

Your humble and lovable.

I am not a Hebrew exspert and only could take several class's because Rabbi Pharasee had to go to Israel for pre 9/11 preparations likly. He charged me nothing for the class but I was ignorant at the time and donated cash to him in increments of 13
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Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 02:52:29 pm »
Okay, I take that back; TM is either completely retarded, incapable of communicating rationally, or a loser fed trying to stir up arguments on a forum.

Get to know me. Find out rather than speculate with your blind faith. Im no Jordan Maxwell. PM me and Ill give you my name and address even phone number. Shit you can have my Social Security number. i dont use it.
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Offline hyperqube

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2008, 02:54:05 pm »
Quote
He charged me nothing for the class but I was ignorant at the time and donated cash to him in increments of 13


increments of 13.  FASCINATING

Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2008, 02:56:09 pm »
I guess this topic is so true that it was moved to faux. Just get with the Facts. Cant deal with it on the show that would show you was wrong once. Get humble and get it right.
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Offline Optimus

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2008, 02:56:25 pm »
http://www.internationalstandardbible.com/K/king-kingdom.html

. King.

1. Etymology and Definition:

The Hebrew word for king is melekh; its denominative malakh, "to reign" "to be king." The word is apparently derived from the mlkh which denotes: (1) in the Arabic (the verb and the noun) it means "to possess," "to reign," inasmuch as the possessor is also "lord" and "ruler"; (2) in the Aramaic melekh), and Assyrian "counsel," and in the Syrian "to consult"; compare Latin, consul.

If, as has been suggested, the root idea of "king" is "counsellor" and not "ruler," then the rise of the kingly office and power would be due to intellectual superiority rather than to physical prowess. And since the first form of monarchy known was that of a "city-state," the office of king may have evolved from that of the chief "elder" or intellectual head of the clan.



http://www.internationalstandardbible.com/M/molech-moloch.html

MOLECH; MOLOCH
mo'-lek, mo'-lok (ha-molekh, always with the article, except in 1 Kings 11:7; Septuagint ho Moloch, sometimes also Molchom, Melchol; Vulgate (Jerome's Latin Bible, 390-405 A.D.) Moloch):

1. The Name

2. The Worship in Old Testament History

3. The Worship in the Prophets

4. Nature of the Worship

5. Origin and Extent of the Worship

 

LITERATURE

1. The Name:

The name of a heathen divinity whose worship figures largely in the later history of the kingdom of Judah. As the national god of the Ammonites, he is known as "Milcom" (1 Kings 11:5,7), or "Malcam" ("Malcan" is an alternative reading in 2 Samuel 12:30-31; compare Jeremiah 49:1,3; Zephaniah 1:5, where the Revised Version margin reads "their king"). The use of basileus, and archon, as a translation of the name by the Septuagint suggests that it may have been originally the Hebrew word for "king," melekh. Molech is obtained from melekh by the substitution of the vowel points of Hebrew bosheth, signifying "shame." From the obscure and difficult passage, Amos 5:26, the Revised Version (British and American) has removed "your Moloch" and given "your king," but Septuagint had here translated "Moloch," and from the Septuagint it found its way into the Acts (Amos 7:17), the only occurrence of the name in the New Testament.


Molech (signifies shame) derives from the hebrew word Melekh (king).
So your reference to David as Molech is incorrect. He is Melekh David not Molech David.
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Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2008, 02:57:18 pm »

increments of 13.  FASCINATING

Thats whats exspected when donating to Israel interests. Look it up
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Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2008, 03:03:32 pm »
http://www.internationalstandardbible.com/K/king-kingdom.html

. King.

1. Etymology and Definition:

The Hebrew word for king is melekh; its denominative malakh, "to reign" "to be king." The word is apparently derived from the mlkh which denotes: (1) in the Arabic (the verb and the noun) it means "to possess," "to reign," inasmuch as the possessor is also "lord" and "ruler"; (2) in the Aramaic melekh), and Assyrian "counsel," and in the Syrian "to consult"; compare Latin, consul.

If, as has been suggested, the root idea of "king" is "counsellor" and not "ruler," then the rise of the kingly office and power would be due to intellectual superiority rather than to physical prowess. And since the first form of monarchy known was that of a "city-state," the office of king may have evolved from that of the chief "elder" or intellectual head of the clan.



http://www.internationalstandardbible.com/M/molech-moloch.html

MOLECH; MOLOCH
mo'-lek, mo'-lok (ha-molekh, always with the article, except in 1 Kings 11:7; Septuagint ho Moloch, sometimes also Molchom, Melchol; Vulgate (Jerome's Latin Bible, 390-405 A.D.) Moloch):

1. The Name

2. The Worship in Old Testament History

3. The Worship in the Prophets

4. Nature of the Worship

5. Origin and Extent of the Worship

 

LITERATURE

1. The Name:

The name of a heathen divinity whose worship figures largely in the later history of the kingdom of Judah. As the national god of the Ammonites, he is known as "Milcom" (1 Kings 11:5,7), or "Malcam" ("Malcan" is an alternative reading in 2 Samuel 12:30-31; compare Jeremiah 49:1,3; Zephaniah 1:5, where the Revised Version margin reads "their king"). The use of basileus, and archon, as a translation of the name by the Septuagint suggests that it may have been originally the Hebrew word for "king," melekh. Molech is obtained from melekh by the substitution of the vowel points of Hebrew bosheth, signifying "shame." From the obscure and difficult passage, Amos 5:26, the Revised Version (British and American) has removed "your Moloch" and given "your king," but Septuagint had here translated "Moloch," and from the Septuagint it found its way into the Acts (Amos 7:17), the only occurrence of the name in the New Testament.


Molech (signifies shame) derives from the hebrew word Melekh (king).
So your reference to David as Molech is incorrect. He is Melekh David not Molech David.


I still have the Hebrew primer books that reads from back to front though its in storage. Molech David is the English translation of the Hebrew term I remember well cause it threw me aback when I learned it.

Come on just except that molech is anthro morphed king

Bull horns = crown
Devil horns = crown
Horned owl = crown
all seeing eye = aten-eye
Two horns = ant-ana
two horns = elevin = 11
Atens Eye = All seeing eye
Atens eye

Sun is the Crown of the Earth

I dont need to win or be right but this is the facts. you just proved it for me them went and said I am wrong. But fact is i dont need to be right. I just wont folks to understand the matrix.
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Offline Optimus

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2008, 03:12:18 pm »
You don't get it. Hebrew has no vowels, by changing the vowel points it becomes a different word with a different meaning altogether. Molech is not synominous with melekh.
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winstonsmith

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2008, 03:14:33 pm »
Anyone ever read "Howl" by Allen Ginsberg? Moloch is a metaphor for the deified industrialized nation that devours its citizens while they blindly worship it.
"Moloch! The incomprehensible prison."

Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2008, 03:28:00 pm »
http://www.bnaijacobfw.org/index.htm

Contact Rabbi Fox
@ Congregation B'nai Jacob Fort Wayne Indiana

Its a sin-magog I mean Synagogue

Im not gonna argue about this end of story just get humble Alex and staff logged in as common listeners. bunch of arrogant MF's. I am starting to beleive your an agency of the CIA for sure with this crap of ,moving topics and deleting topics that dont conform with infowars veiws.


 
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Offline Trade Mark

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2008, 03:30:03 pm »
You don't get it. Hebrew has no vowels, by changing the vowel points it becomes a different word with a different meaning altogether. Molech is not synominous with melekh.

Molech becomes MLk = milk = cow = Bulls milk... LOL
Got milk?
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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2008, 03:32:10 pm »
Anyone ever read "Howl" by Allen Ginsberg? Moloch is a metaphor for the deified industrialized nation that devours its citizens while they blindly worship it.
"Moloch! The incomprehensible prison."

Thank you. It means all the same things. We actually are all right. Even Alex. I am just exsposing the hebrew pronounce and means
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winstonsmith

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2008, 03:45:13 pm »
Thank you. It means all the same things. We actually are all right. Even Alex. I am just exsposing the hebrew pronounce and means

I have to admit I have no knowledge of Hebrew or its etemology. I have only studied/taught Latin and ancient Greek.

Offline hyperqube

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2008, 03:54:17 pm »
now that IS interesting


JTCoyoté

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2008, 04:00:29 pm »
http://www.bnaijacobfw.org/index.htm

Contact Rabbi Fox
@ Congregation B'nai Jacob Fort Wayne Indiana

Its a sin-magog I mean Synagogue

Im not gonna argue about this end of story just get humble Alex and staff logged in as common listeners. bunch of arrogant MF's. I am starting to beleive your an agency of the CIA for sure with this crap of ,moving topics and deleting topics that dont conform with infowars veiws.

Your all-knowing attitude... based on nothing more than a book you say you have, somewhere,... and a single class at a military installation on contemporary Hebrew linguistics... and the fact that you will not argue the historical point... which is the point as is drawn from your topic title... 

The topic as YOU presented it is asking a historical question... though as I pointed out with my Burger Court comment, it is still with us today,  It is clear by attempting to turn all of us into Molech worshippers by metaphor... that you have no real desire to debate, only to demonize ... yet, the fact is that this movement is against that system from conception...

Then you have the arrogance to blanket everyone here as CIA operative's with several couched expletives, when the debate goes against you, which may be seen as dodging...

WELL... that has earned you a 20 day no post suspension... the rules DO apply to you just like they do everyone else here...

Have a nice vacation

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JTCoyoté

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2008, 04:38:58 pm »
I have to admit I have no knowledge of Hebrew or its etemology. I have only studied/taught Latin and ancient Greek.

My wife is an ancient Hebrew linguist... and this discussion has come up between her and I in the past... the way she describes it is using an automobile simile...

"A Ford is a car, an automobile, a motor car, or a vehicle, but not all automobiles, cars, vehicles, etc. are  Fords"... she continues... "God is THE King... there is no name that can be spoken for this, only metaphors made." This is well beyond the simple logic of context, which is the crux of the argument here, however... she continues... "The way the word Moleck is used sets limits to its meaning... this must be considered... much like a rifle has a butt, there are cigarette butts, there is the butt of a joke, and you are sitting on yours...  In post Roman times in the west, however... the word Moloch is synonymous with the ancient Babylonians/Ammonite/Canaanite god-idols to which children were sacrificed."

Using this understanding, to say David the king of the Israelites equates to the ancient Ammonite stone idol Moloch... is not to understand language at all, let alone the logic, which is the game rules of language... I would think that an instructor in Latin and Greek would understand this, however a man who has taken one class at a military installation on contemporary Hebrew, may not.

I am familiar with Ginsberg's poem and thought it a very clever use in metaphor to make an important modern societal comment... however it in no way makes all of us worshipers, especially those of us who fight against our system and technology becoming more and more like the ancient and terrible idol... for, if history is any indicator, the 50 million that we have sacrificed can only mean our permanent enslavement... of course I eluded to all this in my very first post.

JTCoyoté

"The common curse of mankind - folly and ignorance."
~ William Shakespeare

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2008, 05:13:58 pm »
My wife is an ancient Hebrew linguist... and this discussion has come up between her and I in the past... the way she describes it is using an automobile simile...

"A Ford is a car, an automobile, a motor car, or a vehicle, but not all automobiles, cars, vehicles, etc. are  Fords"... she continues... "God is THE King... there is no name that can be spoken for this, only metaphors made." This is well beyond the simple logic of context, which is the crux of the argument here, however... she continues... "The way the word Moleck is used sets limits to its meaning... this must be considered... much like a rifle has a butt, there are cigarette butts, there is the butt of a joke, and you are sitting on yours...  In post Roman times in the west, however... the word Moloch is synonymous with the ancient Babylonians/Ammonite/Canaanite god-idols to which children were sacrificed."

Using this understanding, to say David the king of the Israelites as equivalent to the ancient Ammonite stone idol Moloch... is not to understand language at all, or logic, which is the game rules of language... I would think that an instructor in Latin and Greek would understand this, however a man who has taken one class at a military installation on contemporary Hebrew, may not.

I am familiar with Ginsberg's poem and thought it a very clever use in metaphor to make an important modern societal coment... however it in no way makes all of us worshipers, especially those of us who fight against our system and technology becoming more and more like the ancient and terrible idol... for, if history is any indicator, the 50 million that we have sacrificed can only mean our permanent enslavement... of course I eluded to all this in my very first post.

JTCoyoté

"The common curse of mankind - folly and ignorance."
~ William Shakespeare
You

I'm no linguist nor do I know any hebrew, except that there are no vowels in the written texts. But from what I read, both molech and melekh are derived from the letters MLK or MLKH. By changing the vowel points within MLK and within the context of what is being said or read, one comes up with two different words.

Melekh - Means king which is a title assigned to someone such as King David or Melekh David.

or a proper name

Molech, Moloch - Name of a diety worshipped by the Ammonites which may or may not mean "king" just as the names of James, John, Luke, George, etc. are proper names with meanings.

By Trade Mark calling molech simply a title and not a proper name that the Ammonites gave to their diety is nothing but a lame attept at trying to debunk history, archealogy and the Bible.

Am I right on this point JTCoyote or am I off base? Or I might be completely wrong. ::)

Anyway, when I saw this thread I was interested in the historical aspects of the discussion and not really the linguistics. ;D
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winstonsmith

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2008, 06:23:00 pm »
Quote
I am familiar with Ginsberg's poem and thought it a very clever use in metaphor to make an important modern societal comment... however it in no way makes all of us worshipers, especially those of us who fight against our system and technology becoming more and more like the ancient and terrible idol...

Yes, I have perceived you as well read by now. ;D
I agree, it doesn't mean we have to, and I think Ginsberg, in those times of the 50s when America saw that first wave of middle class prosperity, was pointing out the dangers of becoming worshipers of the material:
"Moloch, the crossbone :o souless jailhouse and congress of sorrows"




JTCoyoté

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2008, 06:25:01 pm »
As you pointed out, all of these words have the same derivation... much like the proper names, or titles that use similar letters with different vowels...  the problem in Hebrew is as you pointed out there are no actual vowels... so everything is context or how the word is used and the underlying cultural understanding that accompanies the use...

This of course is all completely changed in the translations... thus they take on absolute meanings, in a lot of cases, be they common or proper...   

Our friend who will not be back for 20 days, however, had no desire to explore the meaning of the word at all... his whole intent for starting the thread... was to label everyone here as worshipers of the ancient Babylonian god-idol... and you pick a name... This was pretty obvious considering his very simple schema, of this word equals that word... and so on... which anyone who does anything in language knows is bunk, since there is no such thing as an accurate literal translation... there are subtleties and nuances in the two languages that demand adjustment... an absolute fluency in the two languages is a prerequisite at the very least, in order to make these adjustments.

But yes, there are differences in the words that you describe mostly the way they would be used in context... Like "but... a cigarette butt... was put out on my rifle butt... while I was sitting around on my butt..." kind like that, but with more of an inflectional range.

JTCoyoté

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winstonsmith

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2008, 06:32:33 pm »
Semper ubi sub ubi. (Always where under where) ;)

JTCoyoté

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Re: Molech. What does it mean?
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2008, 10:47:15 pm »
Semper ubi sub ubi. (Always where under where) ;)

Unless they chap yer butt...(chuckle)... but that is a good case in point....  ;D

http://bible.somd.com/nave/nave3423.shtml

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