Pentaconned spreads disinfo (ranke CIT disinfo )

[Dig]

A new blog that folks here might find interesting:

http://citwatch.blogspot.com

whoaah.

I pray that all of the witnesses can set the record straight so that this abomination against true patriotic free press will not stop good people from speaking out again.

[Scootle]

Wow ... neither me or jimd are on their hit list... Im insulted!

[Scootle]

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

Bully PP forum mod jimd3100 calls kettle black, says CIT is "destroying" the movement
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=581

This guy jimd3100 is an unknown, anonymous, self-proclaimed "researcher" (read: 757 impact conspiracy theorist) who runs the prison planet forum like a Nazi.

The traffic there is virtually non-existent because people are afraid to post anything knowing that he will yell, swear, belittle, attack, and straight up delete posts that he disagrees with (read: go against his 757 impact conspiracy theory).

I joined the forum when it first opened and was allowed to post for a very short while but as soon as I got active and was trying to get the word out for "How They Pulled It Off" he started his offensive against me.

I was always ultra polite and civil but eventually all my posts were deleted minutes after I would type them and then I was eventually banned with no warning, reason, or notification.

Naturally he hates CIT with a passion and has always attacked us to anyone who has brought us up.

Well now that the new Lloyde short is getting so much attention he is losing it.

People keep posting it and he keeps deleting it but it keeps getting posted by someone else!

Here is the latest thread on it that he hasn't deleted yet but is on a rampage attacking CIT personally without addressing the evidence:
Core of Corruption Director writes about Lloyd England.

It's great because the OP even calls him out since the quote in support of the legitimacy of Lloyde's virtual confession comes from Jonathan Elinoff, who is the founder of WeAreChange Colorado and a respected activist/filmmaker.

Here is the beginning of his rant against us that will no doubt be soon deleted:

 

You are watching the "truth" movement being destroyed before your eyes. Laugh if you want. You will regret this. Myself and SANE are trying to stop it. 911blogger wont allow it on the front page news section but individuals can post it on their section, let's see if he lets them keep it. He knows this is BS.

This cab driver is an innocent man who in no way is involved in this crime. The movement is being destroyed and you are watching it happen.
The makers of these movies are 2 individuals named Aldo Marquis and Craig Ranke. Ranke does most of the talking because Aldo can't control himself very well. He is the "bad cop" to Rankes' "good cop" He posted on the following forum as Merc...Here's an example, and just one reason they aren't allowed here....
 

Then he quotes an old beef from back in the letsroll forum where Aldo flew off the handle a long time ago because they were basically ignoring our research despite his long history there.

Big deal!

Clearly that has nothing to do with the EVIDENCE "jimd3100" and clearly your reputation for being a belligerent ass precedes you.

Talk about a hypocrite.

And a fool.

Sorry "jimd3100" but hard evidence [lol!] proving a deception can not cause the movement to "implode".

Too bad your remote guided Flight 77 impact conspiracy theory has been debunked.

Too bad you look like a fool for being such a controlling, manipulative, hate-mongering, angry bully all in support of the official narrative that has been proven false.

It's time for a new era for the movement and people are starting to wake up to the facts.

Deal with it.

[Unintelligable Name]

http://www.infowars.com/independent-investigation-into-pentagon-attack-yields-alarming-information/

Bet that makes Jim happy... probably not a very fun game of whack-a-mole

"A three year independent investigation into the September 11, 2001 attack on the Pentagon has yielded new eyewitness evidence which, according to the Southern California-based researchers who conducted the investigation, “conclusively (and unfortunately) establishes as a historical fact that the violence which took place in Arlington that day was not the result of a surprise attack by suicide hijackers, but rather a military black operation involving a carefully planned and skillfully executed deception.”

They have compiled the most pertinent testimony into an 81 minute video presentation entitled National Security Alert, which has earned the respect and praise of a growing number of distinguished academics, journalists, writers, entertainers, pilots, and military personnel.

The investigation involved multiple trips to the scene of the crime in Arlington, Virginia, close scrutiny of all official and unofficial data related to the event, and, most importantly, first-person interviews with dozens of eyewitnesses, many of which were conducted and filmed in the exact locations from which they witnessed the plane that allegedly struck the building that day. It was primarily conducted by two men named Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis, also known as Citizen Investigation Team, or CIT."

[Mike Philbin]

another site spreading the CIT disingo:

http://www.infowars.com/independent-investigation-into-pentagon-attack-yields-alarming-information/

yeah, imagine that a site would just post something like that that's got evidence from alternative witnesses about WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED AT THE PENTAGON ON THAT DAY.

as I've said before, in this extremely biased thread, we must put aside pillorying, favouritism and/or cliquism and IF THERE'S GOOD EVIDENCE UNCOVERED (from any source) let's have that as part of the independent investigation of one of the biggest corporate crimes this century.

[Orgetorix]

another site spreading the CIT disingo:

http://www.infowars.com/independent-investigation-into-pentagon-attack-yields-alarming-information/

yeah, imagine that a site would just post something like that that's got evidence from alternative witnesses about WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED AT THE PENTAGON ON THAT DAY.

as I've said before, in this extremely biased thread, we must put aside pillorying, favouritism and/or cliquism and IF THERE'S GOOD EVIDENCE UNCOVERED (from any source) let's have that as part of the independent investigation of one of the biggest corporate crimes this century.

Kudos for the effort, but I don't think you'll be successful in snapping them out of their Plane, No-Plane Paradigm. Worth a try though, reminds me of a Winston Churchill quote, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

[Southern Patriot]

I was totally going to post the infowars link here but you beat me to it.

[grapecrusher1]

as I've said before, in this extremely biased thread, we must put aside pillorying, favouritism and/or cliquism and IF THERE'S GOOD EVIDENCE UNCOVERED (from any source) let's have that as part of the independent investigation of one of the biggest corporate crimes this century.

Their evidence has been looked at, closely, and it doesnt add up.  What does add up is a strong indication of deception and misinfo, there are plenty of points already mentioned here in this thread to support such accusations.  I began this pentagon investigation thinking that a plane did not strike it and was quite open to the CITGO ideas but after hearing the critics and weighing the evidence it looks like these guys are agents --- if not they are delusional and disregard the basics of the scientific method.  We do understand COINTELPRO exists but when it is staring us in the face it is tough to identify (by lack of scrutiny I would suggest).  It is not a matter of favoritism or clique, it is a matter of evaluating, most importantly evidence, but also character, motivations, behaviour, track record etc.
Fetzer is an obvious example of this or do you think he "just wants to consider all the avenues" as he claims.  The guy is a complete sham and set back the movement years how much damage these CITGO guys inflict is yet to be determined.  Lets mitigate it and be critical.

[Scootle]

I've been studying CIT and P4T alot the past two weeks or so ... and I have no doubt they are full of shit ... the rants by jimD don't even do it justice... There is no evidence of a flyover... even if everyone on the west side was fooled... theres still 4 other sides with highways going all the way around ... the traffic on those highways was decribed as heavy ... the people stuck in traffic would have heard an explosion, whipped their neck around and seen an unmistakeable image of a plane flying away from a fireball as if it had bombed the building ... yet there is not one single account by anyone explicitly describing a flyover... also the doubletree hotel does not show one...

This is what it would of looked something like if there was a flyover.


So if there wasnt a flyover what else COULD of happened? Did the plane dissappear into an alternate dimension?

"You're missing the point, you won't address the evidence, either the witnesses are lying or spreading disinfo, Which?"


All CIT have is 13 witnessess... how reliable is eyewitness testimony? ... Watch these videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-SBTRLoPuo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4V6aoYuDcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfhIuaD183I

CIT themselves proved this when they interviewed Lloyd ... he put himself in a different place to where all the photographs and video footage put him. Of course CIT spun this and said this proves he was an accomplice but all it proves in reality is that MEMORY IS UNRELIABLE!

Science is about coming up with a hypothesis that fits most of the data ... CIT and pilots for truth just dissmiss any evidence that contradicts their theory as a government fabrication and ignore it, while accusing ordinary citizens of being agents or accomplices... THAT ISN'T SCIENCE! That is the hallmark of any disinfo artist. You are witnessing a false flag operation on the 9/11 truth movement in real time. For anyone genuinely interested in the truth, please ... control ur egos, put aside all ur preconcieved notions about what you believe happened in arlington on 9/11 and visit these links...

http://911-dis.info/flight77.html
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/flyover.html
http://visibility911.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=511573
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pentacon/index.html
http://911review.com/articles/ashley/pentacon_con.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentacon/index.html

[Mike Philbin]

gay in-fighting

shameful

[jannerbob]

http://www.opednews.com/articles/INDEPENDENT-INVESTIGATION-by-Craig-Ranke-090825-917.html

A three year independent investigation into the September 11, 2001 attack on the Pentagon has yielded new eyewitness evidence which, according to the Southern California-based researchers who conducted the investigation, “conclusively (and unfortunately) establishes as a historical fact that the violence which took place in Arlington that day was not the result of a surprise attack by suicide hijackers, but rather a military black operation involving a carefully planned and skillfully executed deception.”

http://www.prlog.org/10322926-independent-investigation-into-pentagon-attack-yields-alarming-information.pdf

[jimd3100]

gay in-fighting

shameful

No, what is shamefull is how you (and others) continue to fall for and promote insane and destructive DISINFO while name calling those who are exposing it.

So let's take a look at this article shall we?

"Researchers present new eyewitness testimony which they say proves the government's story to be a “monstrous lie”....

Sounds like the author of this article thinks Ranke and his retarded partner did some good work.....

"They have compiled the most pertinent testimony into an 81 minute video presentation entitled National Security Alert, which has earned the respect and praise of a growing number of distinguished academics, journalists, writers, entertainers, pilots, and military personnel."

The author also goes on to name those "authority figures" in the 9/11 movement who endorse this disinfo embarrassing nonsense, so we can all be swept into the same BS pile by association....

"It was primarily conducted by two men named Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis, also known as Citizen Investigation Team, or CIT."

I guess Ranke and Partner getting some good press huh?

"When these eyewitness accounts are aggregated, they paint a very disturbing picture, say the researchers."

I guess the author agrees with Ranke.

“If you are skeptical of (or even incensed by) this statement we do not blame you,” reads a note on the front page of their website, CitizenInvestigationTeam.com."

"Their" website...LOL!  What a scam. How about the author say, "MY" Website? Are you people who are making fools of yourselves falling for this crap even aware that the author of this piece is Ranke himself? This is DisINfo.

It came from here...
By Craig Ranke
http://www.opednews.com/articles/INDEPENDENT-INVESTIGATION-by-Craig-Ranke-090825-917.html

Infowars, which BTW was just sloppy and/or lazy, IMO, by putting this on it's website, if you check, got the story from....

http://www.news-n-views.com/asp/articlenews.asp?place=0659587&issue_date=8/30/2009&edent=2167894&art_id=2560

This domain is owned and was created just recently by Melissa Data Corp, as can be seen here....

Registrant:
Melissa Data Corp

22382 Avenida Empresa
Rancho Santa Margarita, California 92688
United States

Domain Name: NEWS-N-VIEWS.COM
Created on: 16-Jun-09
Expires on: 16-Jun-10
Last Updated on: 25-Jun-09

Administrative Contact:
Melissa, Ray johnm@Melissadata.com
Melissa Data Corp
22382 Avenida Empresa
Rancho Santa Margarita, California 92688
United States
(888) 800-5478
http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=news-n-views.com&prog_id=godaddy

Guess who Ranke and his partner work for? Yup, Melissa DATA Corp in Rancho Santa Margarita Ca

Recently this truther found out exactly who Ranke and his partner really work for. And guess who that is?......

Melissa DATA Corp
22382 Avenida Empresa
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688-2112
http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/2009/08/company-vistor-melissa-data.html


So Ranke has an employer, who evidently pays him to waste company time trying to pin 9/11 on cab drivers and priests, while making the truth movement look insane insisting the plane flew over the pentagon and everything was planted, and then they create a fake news website to promote an article that was written by Ranke himself. And you keep falling for it. How embarrassing.

[yrpplmean]

would it be possible for someone to gather all the CORRECT informative links in correct sequence?  My mind just goes crazy trying to put things in order lol  I know it is time consuming but I think it would be well worth the effort for all to get the correct overall picture of what we here on this forum are trying to promote-truth.  I am so clueless but I get an overall picture of what everyone is saying, but then somehow I get lost again on the way when different people put up different things and then people come back and slam what they post up so I again in turn get confused again lol

If things were put in a systematic linkage of the exact information that is factually documented (or figured), then it would be an excellent way to spread the knowledge to the outside. 

I don't want to cause any trouble or burden on anyone, it's just that when you can't understand all the information that is presented, then one can go back and find the link and listen to it over and over again until it makes sense lol  Sometimes I have to do that  and it would be easier to do that if it was in a specific format.  But that is just me 


thanks

[grapecrusher1]

Yeah Jim exactly what i was going to point out ---Ranke wrote it.  He is writing in the 3rd person in order to convey greater credence to his article by pretending to be an unbiased outside source.  Deceptive on its face. 

gay in-fighting

shameful

Haven't been called gay since highschool -- over 20 years ago.  I thought your socalled "infighting" was more of a discussion.  Why dont you field the points raised instead of chirping immaturely?  Specifically, why is it so difficult to believe that there is identifiable COINTELPRO elements in the movement?

[grapecrusher1]

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2009/WhatHitPentagonDrLeggeAug.pdf

Dr. Legge, in a recently updated paper, states the importance of this subject.  In concise and non-confrontational terms. He (and some of us here) is concerned that with a large number of the movement embracing this no plane/flyover/missle idea the entire thing can be derailed.  Which would be pretty sad considering there has been thermite identified in the dust and all the serious work that has been done.

Example: Phil Berg (Steven Jones et al) does a significant amount of work gaining ground to empower a legitimate investigation.  Orly Taitz (Ranke), a secondary figure, gets the media attention and proceeds to discredit and obliterate any forward movement.


 

[Mike Philbin]

jimd3100,

actually, there's some good information in your gay-in-fighting (just joking) post. I'm all ears (for now) - what is the CIT agenda, in your opinion? What is their AIM, doing what they do, how they do it? I've never really worked out why you (and a few others) HATE this Northern Approach video so much - is it just because they're pushy or they use amateurish/maybe underhand techniques to spread their message. Without full understanding, it just looks a bit like you guys picking enemies.

Hey, I'll hold my hands up if I'm wrong and say, "I was wrong, these guys are f**king crooks." if that's what they turn out to be. But one quick question you friend Scootle didn't answer when I asked him, "Are you THE Jim Hoffman?" I don't know, I'm even now sorta new to this and you might be the anti-CIT guy all over the net, I really haven't looked into your online heritage or anything.

Personally, I don't this CIT are NO PLANERS, I'd like to say that before 'that' clarion cry gets repeated. Where does the hate come from? Aren't we all (technically) on the side of truth? That's the bit I can't get about this DISINFO claim, if CIT is trying to pull the wool over our eyes THEY WORK FOR THE BAD GUYS. If CIT don't work for the bad guys YOU WORK FOR THE BAD GUYS.

You see, for me, there can be no middle ground. It's just the way my mind works aka my enemy's enemy is NOT my friend.

Do you think CIT work for the bad guys, or what is the beef?



cheers

Mike

[jannerbob]

     Praise for Citizen Investigation Team (CIT) and the video National Security Alert



     "The exhaustive effort by Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis of Citizen Investigation Team to contact, record, document, and analyze numerous first-hand eyewitness accounts of the actual flight path of the airliner at the Pentagon on 9/11 has been long overdue, but worth waiting for.  The evidence they have uncovered and compiled in their DVD "National Security Alert" deserves serious attention - particularly in light of what we now know about the explosive destruction of the three World Trade Center high-rises that day."


Richard Gage, AIA, Architect
Founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth




     “Citizen Investigation Team has produced an important documentary video that, using numerous independent witness accounts, successfully rebuts the official account of Flight 77’s flight path on 9/11 as it approached the Pentagon. It constitutes a further compelling reason for this country to investigate properly, for the first time, the full story of what happened on that day."


Dr. Peter Dale Scott
Former Canadian diplomat and English Professor at the University of California, Berkeley
Author, The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America



 
     "A conventional fixed wing aircraft, 757 or otherwise, cannot maneuver from north of the former Citgo gas station to cause the physical damage to the light poles, generator trailer, or the Pentagon without structural failure of the airframe itself. The maneuver would require G forces exceeding aircraft capabilities and that of the human body. Physics and math do not lie. If you accept the placement of the plane as independently and unanimously reported by the witnesses presented in CIT's video National Security Alert, science proves that it did not cause the physical damage at the Pentagon on 9/11/2001."


Robert Balsamo, FAA Certified Pilot
Founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth



     "Aldo Marquis and Craig Ranke are often quick to point out that they are ordinary citizens who are not investigative journalists by trade. Be that as it may, what these citizen investigators have done is true investigative journalism, and what they have accomplished is anything but ordinary. Their video National Security Alert does not present conjecture.  It presents carefully documented eyewitness evidence which establishes beyond a reasonable doubt that American Flt. 77 did not fly into the Pentagon on 9/11.  Citizen Investigation Team’s landmark research joins the scholarly work of Harrit, Jones, et al. in destroying the widely-held myth that 9/11 was masterminded by foreign terrorists. Government and media figures who dare ignore evidence this conclusive do so at their own peril, and the peril of us all. 9/11 is a stain upon our honor as a nation and it is imperative that justice is done."


Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford
Pilot, United States Marine Corp. (Ret.)
10,000+ Hours Total Flight Time, 303 Combat Missions



 
     "The entire body of work from CIT is a testament to the tremendous power of dedicated citizen journalists to uncover the truth behind a government story.  Using thousands of dollars of their own money and thousands of hours of unpaid time, Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis have performed a significant public service.  They have created a body of work that definitively shows the government story about the Pentagon to be a lie."


Sheila Casey, Washington DC based journalist
Her work has appeared in The Denver Post, Reuters, Chicago Sun-Times, Dissident Voice, Rock Creek Free Press, and Common Dreams




     “Citizen Investigation Team have presented a reasoned, and methodical look at witness testimony the day the Pentagon was attacked on Sept. 11th. As stated in their presentation National Security Alert, it behooves every citizen of conscience to question the official story after viewing CIT's labors toward seeking the truth of what happened that day in 2001.”


Edward Asner, Emmy Award Winning Actor
Former President of the Screen Actors Guild




     “This new film by CIT is far more professionally produced than their previous efforts. It is also more convincing, given the addition of more witnesses, so that they now have a total of 13 witnesses reporting that the actual flight path of the plane that approached the Pentagon was drastically different from the official flight path (which would have been needed if the plane was to knock over the felled light poles and to strike the Pentagon at the designated spot and angle). This part of the film's thesis is now established beyond a reasonable doubt. The film does not establish its related claim---that the airliner pulled up and flew over the Pentagon---as clearly, but it does make a good case for it. One of the film's most valuable parts is a scene in which cab driver Lloyde England, who otherwise gamely tried to maintain the truth of his testimony supporting the official story, admitted that the Pentagon operation had been planned by powerful people with lots of money. I am pleased to be able to recommend this important film with enthusiasm."
 

Dr. David Ray Griffin
Author of The New Pearl Harbor Revisited: 9/11, the Cover-Up, and the Exposé




     "I support the work of the Citizen Investigation Team. They have uncovered an important body of evidence proving that the official version of the attack on the Pentagon is false, and that the attack must have been a deceptive military operation, not the kamakaze crash of a hijacked commercial jet. I urge everyone to watch their video National Security Alert and then help bring this information to the attention of the media and elected officials."
 

Kevin Barrett, Ph.D.
Scholar, Author, Radio Host
Co-Founder, Muslim-Christian-Jewish Alliance for 9/11 Truth



 
     “I strongly recommend National Security Alert to everyone concerned about the veracity of the attacks on 9/11/2001. Citizen Investigation Team has assembled the most compelling documentary evidence I have viewed to undermine the official story regarding the attack on the Pentagon. The DVD offers no theorizing or speculation; only corroborated eyewitness evidence contradicting the official flight data to support an overwhelming argument that a plane did not slam into the Pentagon on 9/11. If you have time for only one video about the Pentagon, National Security Alert needs to be your choice."


Scott McKinsey
Award-Winning Television & Film Director



 
     "Citizen Investigation Team did an outstanding job of finding witnesses and putting the facts together.  It's the best reporting I've seen in a long, long time.  This video is a must see for every citizen in our country."

Commander James R. Compton, III
United States Navy (Ret.)




     "The Pentagon on 9/11 is still a big mystery. We've had a lot of theories, and we've had the enervating withholding of video evidence by the Pentagon. But until now, no one has tried to assemble real forensic evidence, and a collection of eyewitnesses, in order to build a credible explanation for what might have happened. Based on actual on-the-ground reporting, Citizen Investigation Team has produced a startling body of new evidence.  They present interviews with Pentagon police officers at the former Citgo gas station, groundskeepers at Arlington National Cemetery, and several others. These eyewitnesses consistently point to a flight path for the plane that day that is directly at odds with the official story. If these independently corroborated witness accounts are accurate, then the plane did not hit the light-poles, and everything we thought we knew about the Pentagon is wrong.   Their pioneering work deserves more serious attention from the government and media, both of whom would prefer we forget our need for justice."
 

Sander Hicks
Author, The Big Wedding: 9/11, the Whistle-Blowers, and the Cover-Up




     "I think the work of Citizen Investigation Team is among the most critical that has ever been done with regard to establishing clearly the fact that the official explanation for the attack on 9/11 is false. Going to the primary sources....now that's what I call REAL journalism."


Steve Martin
Host, The Aroostook Watchmen Radio Program
WXME-AM Monticello, Maine




     "I was initially skeptical of CIT's findings. But after closer review of the numerous interviews contained in their documentaries, a strong case has been made for an approach trajectory for the plane said to be American Airlines Flight 77 that is hundreds of feet from the official trajectory. The on-scene physical evidence attributed to the official trajectory is incompatible with the trajectory repeatedly described by the witnesses presented and is arguably suspect. Aircraft speeds described in the interviews are also much lower than those alleged by official sources. CIT's documentaries provide the viewer with the transparency and real-time detail regarding events at the Pentagon on 9/11, not provided by accounts offered by the federal government or major media."
 

Aidan Monaghan
Researcher




     "I watched your video about the Pentagon (National Security Alert). Oh, my God. It made me shake and almost cry. I have known for awhile that 9/11 was undoubtedly an inside job, but this is the best evidence yet - indisputable in my mind. I had been on the edge of being involved in the 9/11 Truth Movement, and now, after seeing your video, I am on board completely and plan to devote every non-working hour of my life to bringing about the truth. It's scary. I'm scared about where this all will lead, but I can't help but act. I can't thank you all enough for having done the investigation that you have done. May the truth prevail."
 

Chris Meagher
Concerned citizen




     "I love the CIT video National Security Alert. It's clear that Flight 77 never made it near the Pentagon. The plane that flew over the Pentagon, on a trajectory just north of the gas station was not a commercial airliner. It's refreshing to see citizens investigating for themselves, and doing a darn good job at it. I highly recommend watching National Security Alert."
 

Bruno Bruhwiler
We Are Change LA


Jim,your evidence to prove Craig Ranke to be a disinfo agent is almost comical,this will be my last post on this forum as i no longer wish to be associated with the joke you have become and the joke this forum now is.

JANNERBOB SIGNING OUT.

[Dig]

jimd3100,

actually, there's some good information in your gay-in-fighting (just joking) post. I'm all ears (for now) - what is the CIT agenda, in your opinion? What is their AIM, doing what they do, how they do it? I've never really worked out why you (and a few others) HATE this Northern Approach video so much - is it just because they're pushy or they use amateurish/maybe underhand techniques to spread their message. Without full understanding, it just looks a bit like you guys picking enemies.

Hey, I'll hold my hands up if I'm wrong and say, "I was wrong, these guys are f**king crooks." if that's what they turn out to be. But one quick question you friend Scootle didn't answer when I asked him, "Are you THE Jim Hoffman?" I don't know, I'm even now sorta new to this and you might be the anti-CIT guy all over the net, I really haven't looked into your online heritage or anything.

Personally, I don't this CIT are NO PLANERS, I'd like to say that before 'that' clarion cry gets repeated. Where does the hate come from? Aren't we all (technically) on the side of truth? That's the bit I can't get about this DISINFO claim, if CIT is trying to pull the wool over our eyes THEY WORK FOR THE BAD GUYS. If CIT don't work for the bad guys YOU WORK FOR THE BAD GUYS.

You see, for me, there can be no middle ground. It's just the way my mind works aka my enemy's enemy is NOT my friend.

Do you think CIT work for the bad guys, or what is the beef?



cheers

Mike

aw shit, I'll jump in.  What does it matter what their agenda is? It is obvious that they turn on witnesses and are highly selective as to what evidence they present. IMO their methods debunk them more than anything else.

[trailhound]

Scootle wrote

I've been studying CIT and P4T alot the past two weeks or so ... and I have no doubt they are full of shit ... the rants by jimD don't even do it justice... There is no evidence of a flyover... even if everyone on the west side was fooled... theres still 4 other sides with highways going all the way around ... the traffic on those highways was decribed as heavy ...

 What is your evidence that P4T is full of shit?

 Regarding what people saw or didnt see I have two words, project bluebeam. 

 I dont have a solid opinion about this. 

[Scootle]

Well ... probably their most convincing argument against the official flight path is the apparent physical impossibility of the G-Forces the plane would have supposedly experienced pulling out of the thousand foot dive it does before hitting the light poles.

1) Even if they were right, then the same argument can be used against the flyover theory ... in fact more so ... the plane would still have to dive thousands of feet for the flyover to be convincing but it would have to pull up even more so that it can fly over the pentagon ...

2) their math is very deceptive ... they basically model it as a straight diagonal descent followed by a very sharp corner, something like this ...



Now of course that's gonna generate some stupidly high G-Force, especially at 500mph, but in reality it wouldnt be like that would it ... it would be much more gradual, like this ...



I think the NTSB data probably has been manipulated, because the final altitude reading is 480 feet above sea level ... much too high to hit the pentagon... but also much too high to pull of  a convincing flyover ... which is the only possible alternative path it could have taken. Now you have to ask yourself ... why, if they were hiding something, would they manipulate the data so that it contradicts the official story? Are they really hiding something? or do they want you to think they are hiding something?

[grapecrusher1]

    Praise for Citizen Investigation Team (CIT) and the video National Security Alert


    “Citizen Investigation Team has produced an important documentary video that, using numerous independent witness accounts, successfully rebuts the official account of Flight 77’s flight path on 9/11 as it approached the Pentagon. It constitutes a further compelling reason for this country to investigate properly, for the first time, the full story of what happened on that day."


Dr. Peter Dale Scott
Former Canadian diplomat and English Professor at the University of California, Berkeley
Author, The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America




Jim,your evidence to prove Craig Ranke to be a disinfo agent is almost comical,this will be my last post on this forum as i no longer wish to be associated with the joke you have become and the joke this forum now is.

JANNERBOB SIGNING OUT.

Peter Dale Scott writes:

    "I have not endorsed the flyover theory for Flight 77, and I do not personally believe it."

These words are contained in a form letter that Scott is sending out in reply to the many inquiries he has received from those who have been shocked and appalled that a scholar of his caliber would actually endorse the shoddy work of CIT. Scott makes clear that while he finds the witness testimony interesting, he has never supported CIT's absurd flyover theory nor does he support their habit of vile ad hominem attacks on witnesses and activists.

Dr. Scott has changed his point of view on this subject and I would imagine others have as well given the recent scrutiny.  I would like to see the date of these comments and the updated thoughts.  CITGO are convincing but when you hear and read Hoffman and others shred the proposed theories you have to shake your head and see through it. 

I dont understand the haughty attitude--- what gives??  these are valid points despite how you are reacting.  Look at little more critically if you come back from your tantrum.

[trailhound]

Scootle wrote

Well ... probably their most convincing argument against the official flight path is the apparent physical impossibility of the G-Forces the plane would have supposedly experienced pulling out of the thousand foot dive it does before hitting the light poles.

1) Even if they were right, then the same argument can be used against the flyover theory ... in fact more so ... the plane would still have to dive thousands of feet for the flyover to be convincing but it would have to pull up even more so that it can fly over the pentagon ...

2) their math is very deceptive ... they basically model it as a straight diagonal descent followed by a very sharp corner, something like this ...



Now of course that's gonna generate some stupidly high G-Force, especially at 500mph, but in reality it wouldnt be like that would it ... it would be much more gradual, like this ...



I think the NTSB data probably has been manipulated, because the final altitude reading is 480 feet above sea level ... much too high to hit the pentagon... but also much too high to pull of  a convincing flyover ... which is the only possible alternative path it could have taken. Now you have to ask yourself ... why, if they were hiding something, would they manipulate the data so that it contradicts the official story? Are they really hiding something? or do they want you to think they are hiding something?

 Add to that the hard right bank many witnesses describe    Also the flight data, according to P4T, shows the plane could not have hit the light poles.

[jimd3100]

jimd3100,

actually, there's some good information in your gay-in-fighting (just joking) post. I'm all ears (for now) - what is the CIT agenda, in your opinion? What is their AIM, doing what they do, how they do it? I've never really worked out why you (and a few others) HATE this Northern Approach video so much - is it just because they're pushy or they use amateurish/maybe underhand techniques to spread their message. Without full understanding, it just looks a bit like you guys picking enemies.

You really think I have nothing better to do than to look around and pick people out to "be enemies"? You haven't "worked out" why I hate this "northern approach"? Come on guy, I've addressed this issue. It's not about me "hating a northern approach". They knock on people doors get invited into their homes, have their questions answered, and then if the answers "f&*k up" that northern approach they label these innocent people who were doing nothing but sitting in their own homes, minding their own business, as mass murdering, lieing, undercover operatives. All in the name of 9/11 truth, and to keep their silly theory alive, and therefor themselves (and P4T) from being obsolete. There is nothing truthfull in this. It's rather disgusting, not to mention unscientific.

Hey, I'll hold my hands up if I'm wrong and say, "I was wrong, these guys are f**king crooks." if that's what they turn out to be. But one quick question you friend Scootle didn't answer when I asked him, "Are you THE Jim Hoffman?" I don't know, I'm even now sorta new to this and you might be the anti-CIT guy all over the net, I really haven't looked into your online heritage or anything.

You might be "sorta new" to this. I'm not. I'm also NOT Jim Hoffman. I think Jim Hoffman wouldn't have a problem spelling liar and planer, so that should be a big clue right there. And I'm not "all over the net". I'm here, and at 911blogger. I don't need, to promote my pet theories, or try to get hits to my blog or website, or sell a book or DVD. I don't crave attention, and don't have or want any of those things, that I would have to "defend". I'm interested in the truth, and credibility to be able to spread the truth.

Personally, I don't this CIT are NO PLANERS, I'd like to say that before 'that' clarion cry gets repeated. Where does the hate come from? Aren't we all (technically) on the side of truth? That's the bit I can't get about this DISINFO claim, if CIT is trying to pull the wool over our eyes THEY WORK FOR THE BAD GUYS. If CIT don't work for the bad guys YOU WORK FOR THE BAD GUYS.


You see, for me, there can be no middle ground. It's just the way my mind works aka my enemy's enemy is NOT my friend.

Do you think CIT work for the bad guys, or what is the beef?

What's the point in wasting my time wondering what their agenda is and wether they are operatives? I've never accused anyone of being an operative (other than the possibility of these clowns)because they are the only ones that have truly earned it. Their actions are extremely suspicious, and the accusations they have made are legendary. They deserve it. Nothing positive will ever come from promoting their biased, unscientific, illogical, dishonest, truth avoiding, self promoting, materials.  
Remember, I never wanted this crap on here in the first place, because blaming 9/11 on ordinary witnesses, who are CLEARLY innocent, is repulsive to the TRUTH. This is a con job, and a potentially destructive one, that is what I hate.

[jimd3100]

   
Jim,your evidence to prove Craig Ranke to be a disinfo agent is almost comical,this will be my last post on this forum as i no longer wish to be associated with the joke you have become and the joke this forum now is.

JANNERBOB SIGNING OUT.

   Gee, you sure know how to hurt a guy.    breaking up is so hard.... but we'll always have the happy memories.    I'll miss your insightfull and informative posts.
BTW if you think an old cab driver went bankrupt on purpose and busted out his windshield in rush hour traffic without anyone noticing, in order to help kill a bunch of people, with help from a priest and a guy pretending to attend a funeral, and reporters who are undercover agents....in order to help "fool" the people who were not undercover agents into thinking a plane flew over the pentagon at the last second ....well....the jokes on you.  

[Mike Philbin]

Okay,

so this is where this CIT issue stands.

They are not working for the enemy. They (and Pilots for 911 Truth) have no agenda OTHER THAN an alternative theory of what went on at the Pentagon on that day. You don't like their forceful journalistic manner.

Glad we sorted that out, finally.

Mike

[hyperqube]

am i the only that doesn't understand what the hell the title means?

[Unintelligable Name]

am i the only that doesn't understand what the hell the title means?

Disingo is a typo for Disinfo, and Ranke is someone's last name. Oh and Pentaconned is a website http://www.thepentacon.com/ CIT obviously means Citizen Investigation Team

[hyperqube]

Disingo is a typo for Disinfo, and Ranke is someone's last name. Oh and Pentaconned is a website http://www.thepentacon.com/ CIT obviously means Citizen Investigation Team

ahhh, thanks mate

[cueball7]

Best video I've ever seen showing what really happened at the pentagon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o

[agentbluescreen]

Best video I've ever seen showing what really happened at the pentagon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o

great film cueball

[Scootle]

Best video I've ever seen showing what really happened at the pentagon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o

Please don't promote citizen investigation team stuff on this forum... they are corrupting the truth movement. Regardless of whether they are right or wrong, accusing ordinary citizens of being accomplices in mass murder crosses a line. CIT ignore any evidence that contradicts their theory and dismiss it as a government fabrication, this is not scientific. The point of science is to come up with a theory that fits most of the data. CIT's theory does not. They also claim their work is "smoking gun proof of deception", as if all the other great research and hard scientific evidence doesn't even matter. During a 30 page debate on this forum, several trolls signed up to post exclusively to that thread, pushing CIT propaganda. This a hallmark of a disinformation campaign.

See Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
(Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist) by H. Michael Sweeney
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20090720130112186

One of the traits...

3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.

As jimd and others have pointed out, Craig and Aldo work for a company called MellissaData where they are evidently being paid to promote their theories. They are not an "independent investigation" by any means.

[i811st]

Best video I've ever seen showing what really happened at the pentagon.

great film cueball

who cares who works for whoever?whatevs, It made most die-hard "coincidence-ers" that i shared it with change their opinions.
everytime someone has ever had to assure me that they were telling me the truth,was because they were lying.   

[Orgetorix]

Please don't promote citizen investigation team stuff on this forum... they are corrupting the truth movement. Regardless of whether they are right or wrong, ...

Are you kidding me?   Regardless of the truth? So you don't give two shits about the truth and your only reason for all your posts is?  

No thank you, I don't need you to do my thinking for me. If the day ever comes that I need you to do my thinking for me, I'll shoot myself in the head.

So you say that they are guilty of #3 in that list of 25? Well in your last post alone you are guilty of

2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates' Co-Intel Pro, Disinfo and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

24. Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of their character by release of blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health..

[Scootle]

You know, sometimes i can see what the debunkers are saying when they say 9/11 truth is a cult ... the pentagon no-plane theories have taken on religious proportions.

Well I think we can all agree that a plane at least approached the pentagon ... the only question is ... did it hit? or didn't it?... if it didn't hit, what else could of happened? ... a flyover... its the ONLY alternative... unless u believe the plane was a hologram or something stupid like that. So lets look at the evidence ...

Direct evidence of impact:

• The damage to the building - while not alot is visible on the outside, there is a heck of alot on the inside
• The downed lightpoles and damaged generator
• The numerous witnesses who explicitly describe, in detail, the exact moment the plane impacted the building
• Photographs of plane parts
• Photographs of human remains
• Firefighter testimony describing the retrieval of luggage, seats and body parts and the removal of plane parts embedded in columns
• The DNA evidence collected at the scene - all the passengers of flight 77 were positively identified

Direct evidence of a flyover:



No witnesses decribe a flyover. Even if everyon on the west side was fooled, there's still 4 more sides. There are highways all around the Pentagon and very little obstructions. Traffic on those highways was described as heavy, the highways south and east of the pentagon were full of people stuck in traffic. The moment they heard the explosion they would have whipped their neck around and seen the unmistakeable image of a plane flying away from an explosion, as if it had bombed the building. How many witnesses describe such a sight? NOT ONE! The doubletree hotel also does now show a flyover.


See Critiquing PentaCon (Smoking Crack Version) by Jim Hoffman

Science is about coming up with a hypothesis that supports the evidence the most. CIT do not do that. They simply claim all evidence other than theirs is a fabrication. They are no better than the WTC no-planers, in fact they are worse, since they publicly accuse ordinary named citizens as being agents or accomplices without evidence. Considering the amount of stuff that would have the be faked in order to make it look like Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon when it didn't, it would be a complete waste of time, effort and an unnecessary risk to take to do so. They may as well just crash the plane into the building!

[Orgetorix]

You know, sometimes i can see what the debunkers are saying when they say 9/11 truth is a cult ... the pentagon no-plane theories have taken on religious proportions.

And so have yours. I'm not the one running around screaming "HERESY" every time something that I don't like is posted. But whatever, neither side in this issue has the whole truth. That's why we need a new independent investigation. But I'll always call you guys on your hypocrisy every chance I get; when you call your opponents Co-Intel Pro, then turn around and use the exact same tactics, I'll call bullshit everytime.   

In the end I don't even bother bringing up 9/11 when I wake people up. Your time is better served educating yourself on Fractional Reserve Banking, Free Trade, Globalism, Crony Capitalism, the eminent Fascist take over of the US and a host of other issues.

[trailhound]

Maybe these "bobcat" planes were dispersing particles to reflect a hologram off of and\or dropping buckets of parts...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bobcats-over-washington-on-911-what-were-two-mystery-aircraft-doing-overhead-at-the-time-of-the-pentagon-attack.html

[Berminator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o

i like it.

[luckee1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o

i like it.

No matter what anyone believes planes no planes, this video deand we have a new totally unbiased and independant investigation.

[Berminator]

No matter what anyone believes planes no planes, this video deand we have a new totally unbiased and independant investigation.

I don't think we should poo poo it, it's all we really got on the pent.

[luckee1]

I don't think we should poo poo it, it's all we really got on the pent.

Forgive my atrocious spelling, I was not at all denigrating it.  It is well done and I personally am convinced of the utter false flag .   Too much bull shit in the original "investiation"  hell A_I's posts alone can prove it was an inside job and all the lies about what air craft was where.