Pentaconned spreads disinfo (ranke CIT disinfo )

[element]

My second to last link got messed up toward the end of my last post.  Here (I hope) is the fixed link from the FAQ section of CitizenInvestigationTeam.com

Since the plane did not hit the light poles do you think that they were somehow knocked down in real-time as the plane passed by? Maybe with explosives, or by the vortex of the plane or a missile or something?

Again, see also: http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=621

[Voskhod3]

This has always bugged me, if there is a simple explanation I'd like to hear it.



That's a nice curve in what was once a straight lamp pole.

I heard these poles were fixed at the base with bolts designed to hold it up under normal conditions but to "give" when the pole is impacted, during a car crash for example, to minimise the chances of injury.

Anyway, the poles look like they "gave" at the base for sure... so how did the nice curve happen?

It's one of those things when you look at it (and I've looked at it for years) that doesn't sit right.

I'm happy to be educated.

[phasma]

Yeah, to me it looks like artificial "damage"

If a plane had hot it , i would think it would be twisted, scratched, or something more than nicely bent.

Most likely they thought no one would question the pentagon agter seeing the WTC so they didnt take as much care with the props as they might have done.

[Mike Philbin]

Phas,

what the hell's happened to your spelling?



anyway, if the 747 was coming in at even landing speed, wouldn't it shatter (or cut through) the poles, wouldn't bits of shattered wing be found all over the lawn, hey f**k this, WOULDN'T THE FUEL IN THE WINGS have spilled out early and EXPLODED before the (official story) south-of-the-Citgo gas station hit da Pentagon.

I love how CIT are the first three letters of the Citgo gas station AND the acronym of the Citizens Investigation Team. Hmm....

[mym]

I love how CIT are the first three letters of the Citgo gas station AND the acronym of the Citizens Investigation Team. Hmm....

LOOOL

[Mike Philbin]

might be just coincidence ... but so might all the BLACK OPS ACCIDENTS in recent times; planes, trains and automobiles.

LOL

[phasma]

Phas,

what the hell's happened to your spelling?



anyway, if the 747 was coming in at even landing speed, wouldn't it shatter (or cut through) the poles, wouldn't bits of shattered wing be found all over the lawn, hey f**k this, WOULDN'T THE FUEL IN THE WINGS have spilled out early and EXPLODED before the (official story) south-of-the-Citgo gas station hit da Pentagon.

I love how CIT are the first three letters of the Citgo gas station AND the acronym of the Citizens Investigation Team. Hmm....

[Voskhod3]

Considering all the light poles got smashed into by a plane travelling at 500mph, and that they were designed to give under a small amount of force... they didn't travel very far did they?

[Scootle]

Why is it your posts read exactly like a debunker trolling on youtube?

The plane bomb theory is compatible with a 757 hitting the Pentagon... it involves the plane exploding a split second before impact to minimize damage to the pentagon structure... which fits with most of testimony, can explain most of the anomolies and is SIMPLE! ... It doesnt involve a BS flyover with a perfectly timed missile strike ... it doesn't involve disposing of the passengers or corrupting of forensic officials, it doesn't involve planting debris or blowing light poles out of the ground.

All further criticisms of the Pentagon story should be directed to this post...

Yay ... backup ... and I thought I was left to fight these no-planers on my own ...

Here's some interesting quotes I found from that book "Firefight" I mentioned ealier ... now remember this is in the words of Pentagon first-responders.

"For the first time, Regan's team saw something they had expected to see all along but had been scarce until then: recognizable airplane parts. They all thought they would find big pieces of the airliner laying everywhere, the way car parts end up strewn across a highway after a crash. But the physics of an airplane crash were obviously different: Mostly there was just tons of shredded metal and melted plastic.

Finally, they found several airplane seats, piled among the usual mounds of upturned office furniture and random wreckage. A couple of the seats still had bodies belted into them, which had already been found and marked for the FBI. Most of the workers inside were conscientious about not gawking, yet the seats attracted a lot of attention. They were the first objects the nonaviation experts had seen that unmistakably belonged to an airplane."

---

"The airplane had nearly disintegrated, but Dan Fitch's group found several huge cogs, bent and blackened, that weighed a couple hundred pounds each; it took a couple of workers to handle each one. Other objects nearby looked like large gears, and strips of metal that appeared to be fan blades. Workers realized that they were pulling apart the remnants of one of the aircraft's two engines. The aluminum cowling that had encased it all had been torn away, but the guts of the engine were there.

FEMA crews used a blowtorch to free the core of the motor from the column in which it was embedded. Then Fitch and several others used pieces of six-by-six to pry the motor loose from the column and push it off the pile. With the help of some Old Guard troops, they rolled the heavy piece of machinery onto a dolly and finally managed to push it outside. The whole effort took the better part of an entire shift."

Planting debris is one thing... but embedding it in a support column ... I don't think so!

The fact that they found airplane chairs with people strapped in them supports the official story that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, but it seems to disprove another element of the official story (supposedly all the passengers were herded to the back of the plane).

This book sounds like an interesting read, I may have to get it.

I used to be a debunker, I fell for Popular Mechanics' propaganda when I first read it and it put me off 9/11 truth for about a year. You know how debunkers say that "9/11 truth is a religion and nothing can falsify their beliefs", well to some extent I can see what they're saying. I mean none of us LIKE believing 9/11 was an inside job but here I am looking at the Pentagon attack from a logical, neutral point of view that incorporates all the evidence and you're all treating me like a freak ... as if i'm somehow sympathizing with the official story ... it's like believing a plane didn't hit the Pentagon somehow comforts you.

[Mike Philbin]

Scootle,

it's not even that ... it's that you're suggesting that all these EYE WITNESSES say the plane came FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT direction than THE OFFICIAL STORY.

To me, it seems like the best person to get on your signed is a reborn debunker. You just need more time to cogitate the evidence presented in this thread, again and again. Did you watch this video in the end?

[mym]

BLACK OPS ACCIDENTS

LOL  yeah SNAKES!!  = BOA CONSTRICTORS!!

[Scootle]

Scootle,

it's not even that ... it's that you're suggesting that all these EYE WITNESSES say the plane came FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT direction than THE OFFICIAL STORY.

To me, it seems like the best person to get on your signed is a reborn debunker. You just need more time to cogitate the evidence presented in this thread, again and again. Did you watch this video in the end?

Yes i did... i watched it as soon as it was posted... I had already seen the full length interviews it was composed of so there was nothing new. For me thr problems started when they started bringing in pilots for 911 truth ... u do know that the founding members of Pilots for truth sympathize with WTC no-plane theories right? That kills their credibility with me as far as I'm concerned... the witness accounts are convincing... but then again so is september clues... so are the debunkers... so are the BBC hitpieces... they're still bull.

[Voskhod3]

the witness accounts are convincing... but then again so is september clues...

You're kidding right?

September Clues is totally busted.

It is the biggest piece of disinfo sh*t on the internet.

Want to discuss "nose out"?

[Scootle]

A number of people on this forum have fallen for setember clues stuff... we actually had a serious discussion about it at some point.

[Mike Philbin]

Scootle,

I'd be surprised if you have evidence that http://pilotsfor911truth.org/ support NO PLANERS, apart from those insane NO PLANERS who might frequent the forum...

Anyway, I really thought you were on the side of truth. I'm no longer gonna try to convince you otherwise, as I can't be sure of your intention. You're in with the Truthers, you're questioning good independent analysis of your Pentagon plane.

It's now too sordid for me. Whichever way, 9/11 was a clever plot on behalf of our government, and the people who (intentionally or not) help them promote the 'official version'.



Mike

[Unintelligable Name]

Better off to not polarize people, which leads them to simply defending their position because it is under attack. Let's not draw lines in the sand and line up on either side. Debate the individual issues at hand -- not the over arching theories.

 

[Mike Philbin]

Actually,

yeah, as this IS an InfoWar, one wonders where the true sources of information actually are these days.



Some may call that paranoia - others will call it a survival technique. Always verify your sources, if you can. Good advice.

[Scootle]

http://www.911blogger.com/node/20232

"It was after viewing a YouTube of an interview done by Project Camelot with pilot John Lear talking about “no planes” (found here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N2RrQWsGes) that I became extremely concerned! Lear stated during this interview that AA11 and UA175 demonstrated “impossible speed”. This obviously needed to be addressed and debunked, especially due to the fact Lear was an experienced and qualified pilot. I spent a day and debunked his video in an e-mail I sent out widely, which was also posted on the Net. Unfortunately, the problem persisted due to Lear being a member of “Pilots for 9/11 Truth” and the logistical difficulty of proving his “impossible speed” argument clearly false. Consequently this interview was still seen by many as credible regarding the capabilities of the 767-200, thereby keeping the “No Planers” alive a little longer.

I thought I could solve this problem by addressing the need to revoke Lear’s membership at Pilots for 9/11 Truth as a way of undermining his credibility. So I wrote to Robert Balsamo, the head of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, to discuss this video and Lear’s membership. He subsequently refused my request to remove him from Pilots for 9/11 Truth and actually defended his right to his opinion, as he was “qualified to have it."

[DAVIDENGLAND]

So after all that what's the consensus? Here's mine -

Plane    - Yes
Flyover - No
Bombs  - Possibly
Missile  - No

[phasma]

So after all that what's the consensus? Here's mine -

Plane    - Yes
Flyover - No
Bombs  - Possibly
Missile  - No

Plane - Yes
Flyover - Maybe
Bombs - Maybe
Missile - probably not

[Mike Philbin]

missile/flyby conjecturewise aside, the only thing you can come away from this video with is:

Official 'south of Citgo'  poles  path = NO
Eye witnesses 'north of Citgo' path = YES

[Scootle]

Plane - Yes
Flyover - Unlikely
Bombs  - Likely (Either on the plane or in the building - maybe both)
Missile  - No

[Voskhod3]

Plane - Yes
Flyover - Maybe
Bombs - Maybe
Missile - probably not
North Citgo - Strong maybe

[Unintelligable Name]

Plane - Yes
Flyover - Maybe
Bombs - Maybe
Missile - probably not
North Citgo - Strong maybe

Ditto to that, cept change bombs to Strong maybe. As for missle... that sort of explains what was on that 5 frames they released... sort of... big friggin missle, BIG lol...

[URpwneddude]

Plane - Yes
Flyover - YES
Bombs - YES
Missile - probably not
North Citgo - YES

[phasma]

north citgo -YES

[Voskhod3]

Considering all the light poles got smashed into by a plane travelling at 500mph, and that they were designed to give under a small amount of force... they didn't travel very far did they?

I bumping this because the more I look at it the more puzzled I become.

Look at where the poles fell - all of them!

A few feet away from their bases.

These where were made to give way easily on impact and had supposedly been smashed  by a 500mph airplane for goodness sake.

[grapecrusher1]

Here the peer filled jury empowered with deductive reasoning is hung.  Let's not paint ourselves into a corner where ridicule and derision would be fatal.  Steadfasted opinions in this case are dangerous, divisive, and unwarrranted.
 

The jury agrees :  Planes hit 2 tower in WTC and 3 high rises collapsed from prelaid explosives.  Let's have an honest investigation of that and look into that Pentagon thing while at it.

[Scootle]

North citgo: possibly... but it may have been a plane other than flight 77.

[Mike Philbin]

North citgo: possibly... but it may have been a plane other than flight 77.

Yeah, right, just another plane flying 200 feet from the floor on 9/11. Come on. Accept that the 'official story' (remember, this is the 'official story' that says office fires flattened into their own footprint in 10 seconds flat TWO 100+ storey buildings through their path of most resistance) is an INSIDE JOB.

[phasma]

North citgo: possibly... but it may have been a plane other than flight 77.

What plane would that be? and for what purpose would it be flying so low?

[Scootle]

to confuse things maybe ... its kind of like the explosions willie rodriguez and barry jennings say they witnesssed... they wouldnt have had anything to do with the demolitions coz they occured hours before the demolitions... they explosives were probably just thrown in to confuse things...

[Mike Philbin]

to confuse things maybe ... its kind of like the explosions willie rodriguez and barry jennings say they witnesssed... they wouldnt have had anything to do with the demolitions coz they occured hours before the demolitions... they explosives were probably just thrown in to confuse things...

Not really, BOMBS were going off all that afternoon - there's lots of footage about this. And you can take out the core columns over time without the building coming down fully - they regularly PRE CUT the core columns BEFORE cutting the other columns to initiate the final PULL.

[trailhound]

North of the Citgo- Yes

[Voskhod3]

I think witness Kelly Knowles saw the overshoot as well, but in her mind she has made it a second plane a few seconds behind the one that hit the Pentagon.

And the C130 plane then gets added to the confusion.

Kelly Knowles, who lives in an apartment a few miles from the Pentagon in Fairfax County, says she saw a second plane in the air over the Pentagon, she said some sort of plane followed the first jet toward the Pentagon, “… when a low-flying, high-speed plane buzzed the high-rise, she jumped up, ran to the windows and saw the rear of a jet heading toward Washington, D.C.  A few seconds later, a second plane that seemed to be chasing the first passed over at a slightly different angle.”[ii]  This also coincided with what Keith Wheelhouse, her brother and who was ex-Army, saw: “The second plane looked similar to a C-130 transport plane…  He believes it flew directly above the American Airlines jet, as if to prevent two planes from appearing on radar while at the same time guiding the jet toward the Pentagon.”  Then, “… the second plane banked off to the west.”  His sister, Pam Young, and at least one other person, collaborated the story but weren’t sure what type of aircraft it was.

They saw a plane overshoot at the same time... it couldn't have been the C130.

Now have their minds made what they were told mould what they saw or are they part of the disinfo?

Who are these people?

[Scootle]

Also lets not forget that actors are often placed at these events to converse with people and plant the official story ... such as the guy in New York who said "then i watched both towers collapse, first one then the other, mostly due to structural failure coz the fire was just too intense" ... these actors can basically make people honestly believe they witnessed a different thing to what they actually did... this is an excuse alot of you use for why some say they saw the plane hit the pentagon ... but it could also be true of the 13 witnesses who saw a different flight path... maybe there were disinfo actors talking to those people to plant the northern flightpath in their minds to the point where they honestly believe they saw the plane come in from the north... this is why eyewitnesses are so unreliable when it comes to these kind of events.

[trailhound]

Also lets not forget that actors are often placed at these events to converse with people and plant the official story ... such as the guy in New York who said "then i watched both towers collapse, first one then the other, mostly due to structural failure coz the fire was just too intense" ... these actors can basically make people honestly believe they witnessed a different thing to what they actually did... this is an excuse alot of you use for why some say they saw the plane hit the pentagon ... but it could also be true of the 13 witnesses who saw a different flight path... maybe there were disinfo actors talking to those people to plant the northern flightpath in their minds to the point where they honestly believe they saw the plane come in from the north... this is why eyewitnesses are so unreliable when it comes to these kind of events.

 While i surely agree some 'witnesses' could be plants i dont see how the official story benefits from these witnesses and i dont think they are lying. I could be wrong, but i doubt it.

[Scootle]

I didnt say the thirteen witnesses were lying... im saying the people they talked to may have planted the north side approach in their minds.

[Voskhod3]

I didnt say the thirteen witnesses were lying... im saying the people they talked to may have planted the north side approach in their minds.

Nope.

As far as the cops go they are telling the truth or lying, they couldn't see a south flight path through the gas station.

[TheCaliKid]

Great film. I watched it the other night.

The Pentagon needs more attention - it has kinda taken a backseat to the Twin Towers story.