"Dark Secrets: Inside Bohemian Grove" = Bye bye credibility, Alex Jones

[chris jones]

Hey Own.

How ya doing, there have been many responces to your post. I must add that your wording is flamable, if you mistrust AJ, why bother entering this site. Create your own site.I feel certain there are many truthers who would care to tell you to fook off, I won' do that but I will say.
Sincerly speaking, it would be difficult for any person to fabricate the footage. Therfor you must think Alex to be a wizard of wealth.

You can include Reagan with that remark, these rituals exist,. And other higher up actors of a political nature who have either been to this orgy or refused because of its nature.
Whatever your reasoning, you have your opinion, and I mine. I have seen nothing from this man but a sincere desire to bring the truth to the people of this nation.
Actualy its kind of insulting to see a post like that, notice you were not banned from posting, does that say something in itself.

Are we going to see you at the March on June12th. You may beleive CNN if you do not appear, stay tuned.
CJ

[1776blues]

Surely there is still room for debate about just what it shows.
I see an elite boys-club, a conspiracy, but not a satanic one. Just the kind of stupid, pompous ritual that all of these secret orders use if they were founded in the late nineteenth/early twenieth century.
Its all about wealth, elitism and pomposity. The "satanic" stuff is just disinfo.

They perform a mock sacrafice before a giant owl known as Molech/Moloch, so your saying that in the mid to late 20th and the 21st century people no longer practice satanism for real. What being rich makes them immune?

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/bohemian_grove_exposed.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/020104grovebackground.htm

REFERENCES IN LITERATURE: -
Molech/Moloch references from the Christian Bible

Leviticus

18:21 You must not give any of your children as an offering to Molech, 29 so that you do not profane 30 the name of your God. I am the Lord!

20:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 20:2 “You are to say to the Israelites, ‘Any man from the Israelites or from the foreigners who reside in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death; the people of the land must pelt him with stones. 20:3 I myself will set my face against that man and cut him off from the midst of his people, because he has given some of his children to Molech and thereby defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 20:4 If, however, the people of the land shut their eyes to that man when he gives some of his children to Molech so that they do not put him to death, 20:5 I myself will set my face against that man and his clan. I will cut off from the midst of their people both him and all who follow after him in prostitution, to commit prostitution by going after Molech.

Kings

23:10 The king ruined Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom so that no one could pass his son or his daughter through the fire to Molech

Jeremiah

32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which [are] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through [the fire] unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

[plantop14]

Hey all, let own, ride off into the sunset, he's taken a shit in his own nest!

[Ford]

They perform a mock sacrafice before a giant owl known as Molech/Moloch, so your saying that in the mid to late 20th and the 21st century people no longer practice satanism for real. What being rich makes them immune?

Does anyone have anything that shows the owl as Moloch? I said something about it being Moloch on another forum once and I got burned, because the traditional Moloch is a man-bull, and I couldn't find anything about it being Moloch other than Alex saying it is.

[mickswann]

They perform a mock sacrafice before a giant owl known as Molech/Moloch, so your saying that in the mid to late 20th and the 21st century people no longer practice satanism for real. What being rich makes them immune?

Its just psychodrama. All occult and esoteric groups make use of it, so do churches, just in a different way. They may call it 'the pentecost effect' or 'charismatic', but its the same tool. Its theatre designed to have an effect on the subconcious.
A cursory reading of Crowley, who was assuredly the greatest expert of the twentieth century on this topic, clearly illustrates that he was firmly aware that there is no god, no devil, no demons; there are simply a series of psychological tools and devices that can be used to inculcate certain perceptual changes in an audience.
This phenomenon was called 'divine intervention', but, when it is utilised by people outside of the christian hierarchy it becomes magic, satanism or possession. In fact its just a form of mass hysteria and one that can be pretty accurately planned and utilised if you understand the right cues for your demographic.
The overseers of the elites, in the media, politics and religion, all know how to do this. BG is less than that though, it is a comical am-dram production that emulates a piece of psychodrama. Any self-respecting occult group would be embarrassed by the stodgy delivery and stilted performance.
I don't buy it.
The same goes for 'Moloch'. All I saw was an owl, no-one said it was a representation of Moloch.

Its all just marketing, as I say, Alex sells to xtians, Icke sells to new-agers, its their USP. they take the info and wrap it up in a bit of spin and conjecture. The evidence is still there, its just not always evidence of the thing that they claim it shows.

I like Alex, I enjoy his show, but it is, most of the time, 90% verifiable information smeared with a 10% topping of conservative christian BS.

[mickswann]

REFERENCES IN LITERATURE: -
Molech/Moloch references from the Christian Bible

Have you got anything more recent?

[pac522]

This shit is why we are all F--KED! Good, go out and spread the word AJ is a fraud!!!!!! We have got to f--king learn how to keep small, tiny, BS like this from distracting our attention! This shit is what "wasting time" is all about!!!! Look, I don't know about you, BUT, I am very f--king concerned about my kids future on this planet!!!!

TESTIFY! 

[weaving spider]

You also have the fact that David Gurgen denied nothing and became very angry when Alex confronted him in "Martial Law"."Dark Secrets" is the first Alex Jones film I ever saw, and as soon as I saw it, I knew he was the real deal. You were with him every step of the way. Thank God we have Alex.

[White Rose Sophie]

Surely there is still room for debate about just what it shows.
I see an elite boys-club, a conspiracy, but not a satanic one. Just the kind of stupid, pompous ritual that all of these secret orders use if they were founded in the late nineteenth/early twenieth century.
Its all about wealth, elitism and pomposity. The "satanic" stuff is just disinfo.

Hmmmm.  Why don't we hear from them.....     (I don't think that Freemasonry was founded in the late nineteenth century...Masters of the Illuminati was formed by Adam Weishaupt in 1776....and had infiltrated Masonry quite well by the early 1800's.  As a matter of fact, John Quincy Adams wrote an entire book on the evils of it)

So, no correlation between Satanism and 'rituals' like Bohemia Grove?

Let's see what Anton LaVey (Church of Satan) says:

"The seven deadly sins of the Christian Church are:  greed, pride, envy, anger, gluttony, lust, and sloth.  Satanism advocates indulging in each of these 'sins', as they all lead to physical mental, or emotional gratification ... The strongest instinct in every living thing is self-preservation, which brings us to the last of the seven deadly sins -- anger.  Is it not our instinct for self-preservation that is aroused when someone harms us, when we become angry enough to protect ourselves from further attack?  A Satanist practices the motto, 'If a man smite thee on one cheek, smash him on the other!'  Let no wrong go unredressed.  Be as a lion in the path -- be dangerous, even in defeat!" [Satanic Bible,p. 46-47; emphasis in the original]

"Satanism advocates practicing a modified form of the Golden Rule.  Our interpretation of this rule is: 'Do unto others as they do unto you'; because if you 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you', and they, in turn, treat you badly, it goes against human nature to continue to treat them with consideration.  You should do unto others as you would have them do unto you, but if your courtesy is not returned, they should be treated with the wrath they deserve ." [p. 51; ]

"During white magical ceremonies, the practitioners stand within a pentagram to protect themselves from the 'evil' forces which they call upon for help.  To the Satanist, it seems a bit two-faced to call on these forces for help, while at the same time protecting yourself from the very powers you have asked for assistance.  The Satanist realizes that only by putting himself in league with these forces can he fully and unhypocritically utilize the Power of Darkness to his best advantage." [p. 52; emphasis added].

He continues:

"An indication of the cowardice of 'magicians' of the right-hand path [White Magic] is the practice of calling upon a particular demon ... to do his bidding.  The assumption is that the demon, being only a flunky of the devil, is easier to control.  Occult lore states that only the most formidably 'protected' or insanely foolhardy sorcerer would try to call forth the Devil himself.  The Satanist does not furtively call upon these 'lesser' devils, but brazenly invokes those who people that infernal army of long-standing outrage -- the Devils themselves!" [p. 57, emphasis in the original]

"ON THE CHOICE OF A HUMAN SACRIFICE". 

"Contrary to all established magical theory, the release of this force is not effected in the actual spilling of blood, but in the death throes of the living creature!  This discharge of bio-electrical energy is the very same phenomenon which occurs during any profound heightening of the emotions, such as: sexual orgasm, blind anger, mortal terror, consuming grief, etc ... The use of a human sacrifice in a Satanic ritual does not imply that the sacrifice is slaughtered to 'appease the gods' ... The only time a Satanist would perform a human sacrifice would be if it were to serve a two-fold purpose; that being to release the magician's wrath in the throwing of a curse, and more importantly, to dispose of a totally obnoxious and deserving individual." [p. 87-88]

Most interesting...the first sentence "The release of this force"...

In his book, "The Satanic Rituals: Companion To 'The Satanic Bible'", LaVey says, "Satanic ritual is a blend of Gnostic, Cabbalistic, Hermetic, and Mason elements, incorporating nomenclature and vibratory words of power from virtually every mythos." (Page 21)

Then on Page 59, speaking of the infamous Satanic Rite called 'L'Air EPAIS', or "The Ceremony of the Stifling Air", in which a person finally and totally commits himself to Satan, LaVey writes about the Requirements for Performance:

"The chamber must either be black, or mirrored. A mirrored chamber provides greater confrontation for the celebrant, making him hyperconscious of his role. Mirrors also serve to 'rob the soul' according to old tradition. An austere chair is provided in which the celebrant sits during the first part of the ritual. The coffin may be of any type, although a traditional hexagonal style is recommended, as this is the type depicted in the actual sigil of the Sixth degree of the Templars and, combined with the skull and crossbones, is retained in Masonic symbology. The coffin must be large enough to accomodate two persons, hence special construction or modification is likely to be necessary.
The usual devices of Satanic ritual are all employed."


Freemasonry teaches:

"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of God. The Devil is personification of Atheism and Idolatry. For the initiates, this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may serve for evil." (Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike, pg 102)

Albert Pike states on Page 321, 26th Degree teaching,

"Lucifer, the Light Bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness. Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, selfish Souls? Doubt it not!" Then, on Page 567, Pike again refers to Lucifer as "Angel of Light". Freemasons teach that Satan and Lucifer are not the same being. No, Satan is the evil God, the negation of Yahveh, while Lucifer is the good, wonderful "Light Bearer", the One Whom Freemasonry truly worships.

(WOE to them who call good 'evil' and evil 'good'.)

On July 14, 1889, Albert Pike issued instructions to the 23 Supreme [Masonic] Councils of the world, recorded by A.C. De La Rive in his book, "La Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle (Page 588),

"That which we must say to the crowd is -'We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition'."

"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspector's General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees -- the Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferic doctrine." 


Sounds like the two are remarkably close in their belief systems, rituals, etc, does it not?

[den carts]

If you have any doubts about the bohemian grove, watch alex interviewing david gergen.

[menace]

Haig Patigian, sculptor of the now famous Owl Shrine, fashioned the torso worn by the man who played the naked goddess in the Grove play the Truth.

Sterling’s poetic introduction:
We know of Truth only her name, but who that
has not had his vision of her--terrible or beautiful
or sad? She has haunted the brain from apehood to
Calvary, from Pilate to Cavell. Christ would not
describe her. Buddha sleeps drugged by the ghost
of her incense. Spinoza lay drunk on the thinnest
of her wines. Her light is in the tear and in the
gaunt brilliance of sword-blades. She is the mi-
rage of worlds, and the world is but her breath
on the glass of Infinity. The telescope is her micro-
scope, the microscope her searchlight on the skies
of Time. She robes herself in the nebulae, and her
tomb is the final midnight of the world.
The allegory of her fate at the hands of a popu-
lace, showing how she is first crucified, then
worshipped, then rejected, is enacted
this year in the solemn grove
of Bohemia.
G.S.





Autograph by 18 members and guest.

W.R. Scott “Tie Binders Camp 1926”, Geo McManus, MC Brush, T.H. Goodrow?, Roger E? Corvice?, JF Schurch, M.C. Threlkeld, Clarence H. Howard, JM Davis, CW Durbrow, Geo. McCormick, Ben Wey?, Jo Beamer, JH Dyer, & JH Threlkeld, HR Safford, H.R. Bostwick, and Hugh Wiley!

W.R. Scott (d. 1926), a Bohemian Club member with an elusive initiation date. Scott was the President of Southern Pacific’s Texas-Louisiana lines and Vice President and General Manager of the Pacific lines. During WWI, he was the Federal Manager over the Pacific and Western Pacific lines.

George McManus (1884-1954), a Regular Member who was initiated April 26, 1927, so he was a guest when he signed. McManus was “an American cartoonist best known as the creator of the ‘Maggie and Jiggs’ characters in his syndicated comic strip, Bringing Up Father." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McManus
He signed his name just as he did in his comics.

Matthew C. Brush (1877-1940), a Non-Resident Member who was initiated February 10, 1927, so he was signing as a guest at the time. M.C. Brush was a 1901 MIT Grad as well as an Armour Institute of
Technology grad, a President of Boston Elevated Railroad Company, head of the American International Shipbuilding Corporation, Director of Empire Trust Company, President Allied Machinery, Director & member of the Executive Committee of International Acceptance Bank, and Director of Remington Arms Company. Brush was a director of W.A. Harriman and Co. (later became Brown Brothers Harriman) along with Percy Rockefeller, W. Averrel Harriman, E. Roland Harriman, George Herbert Walker, and Samuel Pryor. Prescott Bush, the current President’s grandfather was a V.P. of W.A. Harriman and Co. and later became a partner with Brown Bros. So there are many connections with Brush, who was clearly in the vanguard of Wall Street.

According to Antony C. Sutton, Brush was a front man for Yale’s Skull and Bones Society, a.k.a. Russell Trust:

From World War I until well into the 1930s, The Order’s "front man" in both Guaranty Trust and Brown Brothers Harriman was Matthew C. Brush. Brush was not Yale, nor a member of The Order, but through an accidental meeting in the 1890s his talents were used by The Order. Brush became a Knight Templar, a 32nd degree Mason and a Shriner.

His first job in the 1890s was as a clerk with Franklin MacVeagh & Co. of Chicago. Franklin MacVeagh was a member (1862), and later Secretary of the Treasury (1909-13) under President William Taft (The Order, 1878).

In 1913, MacVeagh left the Treasury and resigned as trustee of the University of Chicago. While the trail of MacVeagh fades out after 1913, that of Matthew Brush, his one-time clerk, blossoms forth... Brush was made Vice President of American International Corporation in 1918 and President in 1923. He was also Chairman of the Equitable Office Building, also know as 120 Broadway. Moreover, Brush was President of Barnsdall Corporation and Georgian Manganese Company.
http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=SkullBones03-2#Brush

John D. Rockefeller was quoted in the introduction to Dale Carnegie’s How the Win Friends and Influence People as having told Brush: “’the ability to deal with people is as purchasable a commodity as sugar or coffee.’ ‘And I will pay more for that ability,’ said John D., ‘than for any other under the sun.’” Probably the most significant autograph of this group. This listing is the first time Brush’s Bohemian Club affiliation has been mentioned publicly.

T.H. GOODROW?

ROGER? CORVICE?

John F. Schurch, a regular member who was initiated September 1, 1936. He was the Vice President of the T.H. Symington Company.

Melville C. Threlkeld (d. 1949) was initiated into the Bohemian Club September 17, 1912, and was a Director of the Club from 1932-1933. His family business was the Threlkeld Commissary Co. of San Francisco. Threlkeld was the Captain of Tie Binders Camp.

CLARENCE H HOWARD--St. Louis resident and President of the Commonwealth Steel Company.  Apparantly a guest at the Grove.

John M. Davis (d. 1944) was initiated January 29, 1912. He was the President of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad during the Great Depression. He electrified the rail line and the engineer who drove the first electric train on his line was Thomas Alva Edison. Davis was a Tie Binders member.

Chandler Wolcott Durbrow (d. 1958) was initiated into the Bohemian Club on January 29, 1912. He was an attorney and rate specialist for Southern Pacific and a member of Tie Binders.

George McCormick (d. 1945) was a railroad engineer, inventor, General Superintendent of Southern Pacific, and winner of a Modern Pioneer award from the National Association of Manufacturers. McCormick was a member of Tie Binders. See: http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/MM/fmc27.html
His initiation date was February 28, 1922.

BEN. WEY?

Joseph H. Beamer (d. 1941). His initiation date was May 22, 1923. Beamer was a Tie Binders member.

Joseph H. Dyer (d. 1947) was initiated into the Bohemian Club July 6, 1920. Dyer was first General Manager, and then Vice President in Charge of Operations of Southern Pacific Railroad. Dyer was a Tie Binders member.

John H. Threlkeld, a Regular Member whose initiation date was May 26, 1925. Son of M.C. Threlkeld and involved with the family business. Also on the Founder’s list of the San Francisco Opera Association along with his father and brother.

HR SAFFORD--Vice President of the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad of Chicago, Illinois. Apparantly a guest at the Grove.

HR BOSTWICK--Harry R. Bostwick was an American businessman who, in partnership with Henry Collbran, laid the tram tracks for Seoul, South Korea, under King Kojong. Also with Collbran, Bostwick started the first public movie screenings in Seoul.  Apparantly a guest at the Grove.

Hugh Wiley (1884-1968), a Regular Member whose initiation date was October 11, 1921. An author best known for his James Lee Wong stories, a character who was played in movies by Boris Karloff. See http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0928840/ for more on Wiley.

[mickswann]

Hmmmm.  Why don't we hear from them.....     (I don't think that Freemasonry was founded in the late nineteenth century...Masters of the Illuminati was formed by Adam Weishaupt in 1776....and had infiltrated Masonry quite well by the early 1800's.  As a matter of fact, John Quincy Adams wrote an entire book on the evils of it)

So, no correlation between Satanism and 'rituals' like Bohemia Grove?

Let's see what Anton LaVey (Church of Satan) says:

LaVey was an ex carny who saw a way to make a few quid...end of story.

He had very little understanding of ritual, most of it taken from a hugely confused plagarism of Crowley's 'Magick in Theory and Practice'.

What LaVey advanced was a clumsy form of occult humanism.

But, I digress. My point is that these rituals have an occult veneer, because it makes them 'naughty' and that's the end of it. The people concerned don't imagine that they are summoning Moloch, its just a piece of theatre. They understand it only as a bonding rite, it establishes their separateness and their elitism in an esoteric context.

Certainly, I accept that they do it and I think that Jones' film was genuine, but he is using that footage to advance a personal political agenda, its not objective.

That's my tuppence.

[uwaf]

Don't care, all I know is seeing Bush and Kerry tell Tim Russert"It's a secret, we can't talk about it" is enough proof they are occultists. I mean if you are running for President, and it wasn't true, wouldn't you say, shouldn't you say......NO, I'm not in that Group and at least lie, what they are so famous for.

[own]

Look, it was a sensationalist title from me. I think it's time for everyone here to ackowledge my points and also acknowledge that I wrote that it is possible that this is all coincidence. It is possible that he didn't get any faces on camera due to purely being unlucky with the, uh, one-hour tape running out and all. Just open your eyes a little bit, people. I don't really think Jones is a complete fraud, but this video is a bit suspicious.

[mickswann]

Don't care, all I know is seeing Bush and Kerry tell Tim Russert"It's a secret, we can't talk about it" is enough proof they are occultists. I mean if you are running for President, and it wasn't true, wouldn't you say, shouldn't you say......NO, I'm not in that Group and at least lie, what they are so famous for.

Its called mystique and you are buying into it. They do it to give themselves an air of mystery and to seperate themselves from 'the common herd'.

Obviously it works...

[Overcast]

Google is a wonderful thing.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cremation+of+care&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=5cP&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=bohemian+grove&spell=1

Go read up on the Hellfire Club - it was more or less a predecessor. Basically - this is nothing new. It's just new with a world-wide instantaneous mass communication system (internet) that information like this isn't so easily hidden anymore.

http://www.google.com/search?q=The+Hellfire+Club&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I was very cynical of the whole thing when I first seen it, but dang - there's a lot of info - including brochures, pictures and the like - from multiple sources.

http://images.google.com/images?q=bohemian%20grove&hl=en&safe=active&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=7cP&pwst=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

[MooseHunter]

Hey OWN, I have no doubt you're a spook, maybe a dual citizen too.

Now, even though you demand that "sensible logical arguments" without giving any yourself, I will give newcomers to this site, not you, the contradictions and sheer elitist-worshipping manure that came out of your babble.

Your claim that "not one person inside the grove, apart from Jones and his crew, is actually caught on camera" = pure bull. There are people caught on camera in the cark park area and also after disembarking the vehicle.

I hope you're not as dumb to expect that a hidden camera placed on your chest or waist area would capture close-up recognizable features of the persons. I hope you're not dumb enough to not figure out that hidden cameras, especially at that time, will not take HQ pictures. To get an idea, one can compare the improvements made to phone cameras over the years.

To capture close-up and clearly recognizable pictures would be very difficult for various reasons: You'll have to direct the camera at an elevated angle towards the person near you, which would raise suspicion can possibly even miss the object.

To capture far-away pictures of people and expect them to be recognizable to the viewers in order to prove that such blurry image is such and such individual would not prove anything. Also, I understand that he would use other cameras besides the hidden one(s) in places where he would come under suspicion.

Of course, the Bilderberg filming was not done (1) covertly (2) with inferior quality cameras available to Alex and his crews at that time (3) even with good cameras, you can hear Alex and the people there doubting the identity of some of the persons that they caught on camera while filming there, and they could only determine their ID after verifying with other individuals. (4) Many people who attend Bohemian Grove meetings are not very public figures, so even if you caught them on camera, few people would recognize them for what they really are. So, the people caught on cam in Bohemian Grove could be important to the NWO, but the fact that you cannot identify them with people that appear on Foxnews doesn't mean that these people are not NWO agents working behind the scenes.

You burped and said: "does that mean there are no "secret" societies?".. Well, to you people making deals in secret brotherhoods that affect the public is not important, and this tells a lot about your moral standing.

Then, after a big and loud fart, you said: "They're rich. Money = power. They have every right to talk about what's going on in the world. They're the only ones with the finances to do anything about it." You seem to be oblivious to the fact that these people have murdered millions and stolen the wealth that do no legitimately belong to them. You seem to be among those who think that might=right.

You stinking mouth opened and a foul smell came out, more polluting that CO2, if you believe that C02 is a polluting and devil poison gas. Yea, you said :" Plus, Bilderberg is pretty mainstream. A lot of people know." You have to thank Alex, Daniel Estulin and Jim Tucker for that. Well, I imagine that you and your masters are actually mad at them, but have to deal with the fact that Bilderderg has been exposed, and make as if there's no big deal.

Plus the elite's involvement in satanic ritual is at least as well-known as what you claim the Bilderberg is.

Go feast yourself.

[huckleberryhound]

If I am not mistaken, I remember seeing other people in the daytime footage that Alex shot in the Grove.  People standing around talking and drinking, etc.  Do you remember how upset David Gergen got with Alex when he asked him about the Grove.  Unfortunately these owl worshipers are for real.  Mr. Own, if he is not a spook, is no doubt struggling with some cognitive dissonance issues.

When I first started listening to Alex, I thought this guy was out there so I started checking his claims out.  Everything Alex says, you can go research for yourself and validate.  Thanks Alex for waking us all up to the NWO.

[STEELYMAN]

This guy might be David Gergen himself.  There are other people in the film, buit do you really think that the average bohemian grover can just walk up to George Bush? The elites probably have their own little areas.

[netizen_x]

uh...That Cremation of Care ceremony is creepy enough for me, regardless of anything Alex Jones did. His "credibility" is the fact that he got it on tape. End. of. story.

What they do there is just a parody of what they do in 'real life'.

It's a pathetic attempt to put their worries and guilt away.

[yanaar]

What they do there is just a parody of what they do in 'real life'.

It's a pathetic attempt to put their worries and guilt away.

The problem is that the BoHos don't think it's pathetic... they think it gives them real power. 

[1776blues]

This guy might be David Gergen himself.  There are other people in the film, buit do you really think that the average bohemian grover can just walk up to George Bush? The elites probably have their own little areas.

Average bohemian grover? Is the such a person? I think not since this private club was started by Jouranlists then taken over by the worlds elites. So who would be the average grover; Elmo?

[White Rose Sophie]

LaVey was an ex carny who saw a way to make a few quid...end of story.

He had very little understanding of ritual, most of it taken from a hugely confused plagarism of Crowley's 'Magick in Theory and Practice'.

What LaVey advanced was a clumsy form of occult humanism.

But, I digress. My point is that these rituals have an occult veneer, because it makes them 'naughty' and that's the end of it. The people concerned don't imagine that they are summoning Moloch, its just a piece of theatre. They understand it only as a bonding rite, it establishes their separateness and their elitism in an esoteric context.

Certainly, I accept that they do it and I think that Jones' film was genuine, but he is using that footage to advance a personal political agenda, its not objective.

That's my tuppence.

What I find amazing is that you disregard MASONIC writings, and what THEY themselves say about "POWER" and forces, and that they are actually practicing..is their 'religion'.  Maybe you don't believe in the supernatural, Mick, but that doesn't mean that THEY don't.  You are projecting YOUR belief systems onto them. And guess what? THEY are the ones with the 'money', the military might, the systems of control, etc so I would think it would behoove someone who wants to thwart their goals to at least UNDERSTAND their mindset.  They have (in their own words) TOLD you what they believe, they have PROVEN their belief (human sacrifice, etc)....why do you still remain in denial?

[Tactics]

When Alex confronted David Gergen...David knew exactly what he was talking about and was upset that Alex taped the Bohemian Grove...so guess what...it happened...try again.

[Aden]

No, I think he could have got some guards on camera without saying "oh, our 1-hour film ran out"...
Because then they would be identified as paid actors.
Yeah, Alex films police officers on the streets all the time. The private property thing is not a valid argument.

Who are implying is a "paid actor"?  Is it hard to believe that a large private party has real security personnel?

By the way.  You can film police officers (and anyone else for that matter) all day long.  But you have to do it from public property.  If you can see it from public property, you can film it legally.  On private property, you need legal permission.  Thats the law.  Thats why you don't see faces in the released footage.

[TimeLady]

1. That statue of Moloch looks like a giant potato.

2. It really doesn't matter if they're really Satanists or not. It _does_ matter what they're doing outside of the Grove. I have no problem with people burning/sacrificing whatever they want in effigy, but - look at what they're doing outside of their magic grove place.

[mickswann]

What I find amazing is that you disregard MASONIC writings, and what THEY themselves say about "POWER" and forces, and that they are actually practicing..is their 'religion'.  Maybe you don't believe in the supernatural, Mick, but that doesn't mean that THEY don't.  You are projecting YOUR belief systems onto them. And guess what? THEY are the ones with the 'money', the military might, the systems of control, etc so I would think it would behoove someone who wants to thwart their goals to at least UNDERSTAND their mindset.  They have (in their own words) TOLD you what they believe, they have PROVEN their belief (human sacrifice, etc)....why do you still remain in denial?

This satanism nonsense is just how Alex Jones sells his product, I disregard it because I think it is absolutely pointless. All of the occult mumbo-jumbo simply draws away from the real issue, which is corporate greed and the cabal of faceless bankers/industrialists running the world.

They don't need to be satanists, just like they don't need to be reptiles or aliens. Religions are something that their ideological precursors invented to enslave the human race, as times change they need new tools, because people aren't willing to believe in religions with the same fervour (outside of Iran and the US) that they did before.

I do not imagine that they have a religion, I regard that as like expecting Al Gore NOT to live in a huge carbon producing mansion...of course he does, he knows that the man-made carbon thing is BS, he's just an actor.

What matters is, as you say, what they do. The fact that they have some old RKO set in the woods where they dress up and prance about in one of America's many, many, many quasi masonic boys clubs is not the real issue. The issue is that these people are powerful and utterly unaccountable. All this effort focused on BG is totally missing the point, especially that rant about the hippies sitting in the road doing their thing, its just AJ playing up to the christian right, as usual. Its a shame that HE won't ever talk about religion, in fact its a crying shame.

[menace]

Herbert Livingston Satterlee (1863-1947) Non-Resident member from New York City. A member of the elite Mandalay Camp, Satterlee was J.P. Morgan‘s son-in-law biographer, a lawyer, a businessman, Theodore Roosevelt’s Assistant Secretary of the Navy, and a Vice President of The Pilgrims of The United States (fellow Bohemian, Nicholas Murray Butler was a President of this little known, but infuential group).   

William Benson Storey (1857-1940) retired in 1933 as President of Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway and was on its Board of Directors until his death. Storey was a Tie Binders member.

Warren S. Palmer a Regular Member of the Club. Palmer was the President and General Manager of North Western Pacific Railroad and was the President of the Bohemian Club from 1919-20.

James Francis Burke (1867-1932) was a Congressman from Pennsylvania from 1904-14 and was General Council of the Republican National Committee. Burke was founder and first President of the American Republican College League. He played a prominent role in the framing and passing of the Federal Reserve Act and successfully lobbied for a Federal Reserve Bank in Pittsburgh. He was a business lawyer and no doubt was well acquainted with E.P. Thomas. For more on Burke, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_F._Burke and pages 31 to 33 of History of Pittsburgh and Environs: Biographical available at Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC18045743&id=iGROWogZLRkC&pg=RA12-PA31&lpg=RA12-PA31&dq=%22james+francis+burke%22

Joseph H. Beamer (d. 1941). His initiation date was May 22, 1923. Beamer was a Tie Binders member.


George A. Scott (d. 1957) was initiated into the Bohemian Club March 16, 1922. This George A. Scott is probably the man who ran the Concrete Grid Form Company of Berkeley which left an impression on San Francisco architecture and not the George A. Scott of San Diego Walker-Scott department store fame. Scott was a Tie Binders member.

M.A. Jones an Associate Member of the Club.

George McCormick (d. 1945) was a railroad engineer, inventor, General Superintendent of Southern Pacific, and winner of a Modern Pioneer award from the National Association of Manufacturers. McCormick was a member of Tie Binders. See: http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/MM/fmc27.html
His initiation date was February 28, 1922.


Eugene P. Thomas was initiated into the Bohemian Club April 23, 1940. He was a Non-Resident Member who lived in New York City. Thomas was the President of US Steel (the United States Steel Products Company) and of the National Foreign Trade Council! This Pittsburgh Steamship Company steamship was apparently named after him: http://updigit.uproc.lib.mi.us/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/locks&CISOPTR=479&REC=1 Thomas was a Tie Binders member.


John M. Davis (d. 1944) was initiated January 29, 1912. He was the President of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad during the Great Depression. He electrified the rail line and the engineer who drove the first electric train on his line was Thomas Alva Edison. Davis was a Tie Binders member.

Paul Shoup (1874-1946) Regular Member whose initiation date was November 28, 1906. Among many other things Shoup was President of Southern Pacific. Shoup made the Aug. 12, 1929 cover of Time Magazine. Shoup was a Tie Binders member. Here’s what Time had to say about Mr. Shoup:

Improvement in railway net operating income has generally resulted not so much from increases in gross income as from decreases in operating costs. Railroads are being more efficiently run, and by more capable managers. Nor is there any more typical example of the modern rail executive than Southern Pacific's Paul Shoup, man most responsible for Southern Pacific's present scope and vigor.

Indeed, when seven members of California's Bohemian Club* were asked to write on a slip of paper the name of the most potent westerner of the present generation, five of the ballots bore the name of Paul Shoup.

At 18, Paul Shoup was a Southern Pacific ticket agent and freight clerk; at 31 he was assistant general freight agent with headquarters at Portland. Then (1906) came the San Francisco fire and with this first great emergency his first great opportunity. For the late great E. H. Harriman arrived in San Francisco in the wake of the fire and Mr. Shoup assisted him in relief work. So helpful was Mr. Shoup that there is a popular fable that he was a Harriman protege. It was, however, during the Southern Pacific's post-Harriman period that Mr. Shoup really rose to a prominent position, particularly through his management of the railroad's electric traction interurban lines and oil interests. He managed Pacific Oil Co. and Associated Oil Co., Southern Pacific subsidiaries, which later were sold to Standard Oil of California and Tidewater Oil, respectively.

In 1925 Mr. Shoup became Executive Vice President and in January 1929 succeeded William Sproule to the presidency.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,732786,00.html
For more on Shoup, see: http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/spc/xml/m0057.xml

Allan Hoover (1907-1993) A wealthy California rancher and Hoover Foundations promoter, Allan, one of Herbert Hoover’s sons, was a Regular member who was initiated February 5, 1934.

[menace]

Eugene P. Thomas was initiated into the Bohemian Club April 23, 1940. He was a Non-Resident Member who lived in New York City. Thomas was the President of US Steel (the United States Steel Products Company) and of the National Foreign Trade Council! Thomas was a Tie Binders member.

Joseph H. Beamer (d. 1941). His initiation date was May 22, 1923. Beamer was a Tie Binders member.

Edward H. Maggard (d. 1965) was a Non-Resident member from Palm Springs who was initiated into the Bohemian Club on Oct. 19, 1931. Maggard was General Manager of Petaluma & Santa Rosa Railway Company. Maggard was a Tie Binders member.

William Benson Storey (1857-1940) retired in 1933 as President of Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway and was on its Board of Directors until his death. Storey was a Tie Binders member.

W.L. Trammell (d. 1942) Bohemian Club member with an elusive initiation date. He was with the Trans-Continental Freight Bureau. Trammell was a Tie Binders Camp member.

Robert W. Lea (d. 1956), a Non Resident Member from New York who was initiated November 15, 1934 and a member of Tie Binders Camp.

Charles Daniel Frey (1881 or 1886-1959) Non-Resident Member from Chicago whose initiation date was June 26, 1940. A noted artist who worked in the art departments of the Examiner and Evening Post. He was also a founder and National Director of the American Protection League. See: http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/kt1c6003fx/ and http://www.fas.org/irp/ops/ci/docs/ci1/ch3d.htm for a brief description of Frey’s work for the government.

John M. Davis (d. 1944) was initiated January 29, 1912. He was the President of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad during the Great Depression. He electrified the rail line and the engineer who drove the first electric train on his line was Thomas Alva Edison. Davis was a Tie Binders member.

Arthur Reynolds (d. 1943) was President of the Continental & Commercial Bank and helped grow it into the 3rd largest commercial bank in the US by 1929. He was initiated June 16, 1933.

Lee Russell Kelce (1897-1957) Non-Resident Member from Kansas City whose initiation date was Christmas Eve, 1940. Kelce was President of Sinclair Coal Co. The planetarium at Pittsburg State University is named after him. At his death in 1957, he was President of the Peabody Coal Company and Board Chairman of the Chicago Great Western Railroad. Kelce was a Tie Binders member. For biographical sketches of this industrial empire head and NATIONAL MINING HALL OF FAME inductee, go to: http://www.kshs.org/genealogists/individuals/vertical/bios/kelcerussell.htm and http://www.kclibrary.org/localhistory/media.cfm?mediaID=113191

James H. Watters, Non-Resident Member from Chicago whose initiation date was June 18, 1936. Watters was a Tie Binders member.


Theodore Wright (d. 1976) was initiated into the Bohemian Club April 14, 1933 and was a Tie Binders member.

John “Jack” F. Schurch, a regular member who was initiated September 1, 1936. He was the Vice President of the T.H. Symington Company.

John T. Saunders (d. 1942) was initiated into the Bohemian Club on January 19, 1931. Saunders was the Vice President in charge of traffic of Southern Pacific Railroad. Saunders was a Tie Binders member.

Frank Mulks was initiated into the Bohemian Club on February 3, 1932. He’s listed in The Pocket List of Railroad Officials (1879) as having been an Assistant to the President of Southern Pacific. Mulks was a Tie Binders member.

George A. Scott (d. 1957) was initiated into the Bohemian Club March 16, 1922. This George A. Scott is probably the man who ran the Concrete Grid Form Company of Berkeley which left an impression on San Francisco architecture and not the George A. Scott of San Diego Walker-Scott department store fame. Scott was a Tie Binders member.

S.A. Williams--an S.A. Williams was President and Director of the Baltimore & Bel Air Electric Railway Company in 1903.

Joseph H. Dyer (d. 1947) was initiated into the Bohemian Club July 6, 1920. Dyer was first General Manager, and then Vice President in Charge of Operations of Southern Pacific Railroad. Dyer was a Tie Binders member.

Irvin Shrewsbury Cobb (1876-1944), Regular Member whose initiation date was September 13, 1935. Cobb was “an American author, humorist, and columnist who lived in New York and wrote over 60 books and 300 short stories.” Cobb hosted the Academy Awards in 1935. Cobb was a member of Woof Camp. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irvin_S._Cobb for more about Cobb.

C.A. Walker Regular Member whose initiation date was July 15, 1940.Walker was a Tie Binders member.


Melville C. Threlkeld (d. 1949) was initiated into the Bohemian Club September 17, 1912, and was a Director of the Club from 1932-1933. His family business was the Threlkeld Commissary Co. of San Francisco. Threlkeld was the Captain of Tie Binders Camp.

Fred A Poor (d. 1953), a Non Resident Member from Chicago who was initiated November 27, 1939. He founded Portec Rail Products Inc and was a member of Tie Binders Camp.

Jim Jackson. James A. Jackson of New York City, whose initiation date was June 30, 1936. J.A. Jackson is listed in the Tie Binders membership list.

Chandler Wolcott Durbrow (d. 1958) was initiated into the Bohemian Club on January 29, 1912. He was an attorney and rate specialist for Southern Pacific and a member of Tie Binders

[White Rose Sophie]

This satanism nonsense is just how Alex Jones sells his product, I disregard it because I think it is absolutely pointless. All of the occult mumbo-jumbo simply draws away from the real issue, which is corporate greed and the cabal of faceless bankers/industrialists running the world.

They don't need to be satanists, just like they don't need to be reptiles or aliens. Religions are something that their ideological precursors invented to enslave the human race, as times change they need new tools, because people aren't willing to believe in religions with the same fervour (outside of Iran and the US) that they did before.

What matters is, as you say, what they do. The fact that they have some old RKO set in the woods where they dress up and prance about in one of America's many, many, many quasi masonic boys clubs is not the real issue. The issue is that these people are powerful and utterly unaccountable. All this effort focused on BG is totally missing the point, especially that rant about the hippies sitting in the road doing their thing, its just AJ playing up to the christian right, as usual. Its a shame that HE won't ever talk about religion, in fact its a crying shame.

Why do you insist that everyone who does NOT believe as you do (those who  have a 'faith' in something other than themselves) are wrong? If I judged other atheists by your standards, it would appear that atheists are just as intolerant and dismissive of other people's world view as they claim 'Christians"  or "Muslims" to be.  And the thing you cannot address or argue with, is that YOU (as a mortal human being) are no more able to say with any certainty that there IS NO GOD, or no Satan....any more than I can say for certain that there is one.  We will both find out when we die.  However, the results of one world view over another one.............are vastly different.

1. If I, as a Christian, die and there is NO 'afterlife' even though I have lived my life to the best of my ability following Jesus Christ........what have I 'missed out' on?  How was I wrong in doing that?

2. However, if I as a Christian die and there is an 'afterlife' and a Heaven and Hell, and I have lived my life according to my belief in Jesus Christ and HE really is THE way, the truth and the LIFE, the consequences are VASTLY different as far as my 'eternity'.

Conversely, if someone does not believe in life after death, or any deity that controls the universe....and this 'life' is all there is to their existence.....WHY not take the microchip?  If it comes down to saving your life (or your wife's or your families) or refusing and death being the result - which one are you going to choose?  You know which you will choose,   so what's with all the anger, protests? 

(Of course, humanity received a warning about all this - everything that is currently happening in the world - over 2000 years ago in a book of 'myths' .......but I guess that was just a bunch of old mystics sitting around smoking weird weed and having 'hallucinations'.  Yeah, it's all in there, from 'wars and rumours of wars', to the world being drawn up into 10 'super nations', to the devastation of Iraq, to the growing frequency of earthquakes, to 'the love of man growing cold' towards each other, to the apostasy of the church, to no one being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast,  to 'pestilence' and disease, and FAMINE.) 

No.  These are all just coincidences. Or since to blame "GOD" would require admittance that there is one, let's just blame man's belief in GOD for everything that is happening.

"its just AJ playing up to the christian right, as usual. Its a shame that HE won't ever talk about religion, in fact its a crying shame.


No, maybe he just knows that HE, as a human being, logically cannot say there is or is NOT a GOD. 

[jesqueal]

Why do you insist that everyone who does NOT believe as you do (those who  have a 'faith' in something other than themselves) are wrong? If I judged other atheists by your standards, it would appear that atheists are just as intolerant and dismissive of other people's world view as they claim 'Christians"  or "Muslims" to be.  And the thing you cannot address or argue with, is that YOU (as a mortal human being) are no more able to say with any certainty that there IS NO GOD, or no Satan....any more than I can say for certain that there is one.  We will both find out when we die.  However, the results of one world view over another one.............are vastly different.

1. If I, as a Christian, die and there is NO 'afterlife' even though I have lived my life to the best of my ability following Jesus Christ........what have I 'missed out' on?  How was I wrong in doing that?

2. However, if I as a Christian die and there is an 'afterlife' and a Heaven and Hell, and I have lived my life according to my belief in Jesus Christ and HE really is THE way, the truth and the LIFE, the consequences are VASTLY different as far as my 'eternity'.

Conversely, if someone does not believe in life after death, or any deity that controls the universe....and this 'life' is all there is to their existence.....WHY not take the microchip?  If it comes down to saving your life (or your wife's or your families) or refusing and death being the result - which one are you going to choose?  You know which you will choose,   so what's with all the anger, protests? 

(Of course, humanity received a warning about all this - everything that is currently happening in the world - over 2000 years ago in a book of 'myths' .......but I guess that was just a bunch of old mystics sitting around smoking weird weed and having 'hallucinations'.  Yeah, it's all in there, from 'wars and rumours of wars', to the world being drawn up into 10 'super nations', to the devastation of Iraq, to the growing frequency of earthquakes, to 'the love of man growing cold' towards each other, to the apostasy of the church, to no one being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast,  to 'pestilence' and disease, and FAMINE.) 

No.  These are all just coincidences. Or since to blame "GOD" would require admittance that there is one, let's just blame man's belief in GOD for everything that is happening.

"its just AJ playing up to the christian right, as usual. Its a shame that HE won't ever talk about religion, in fact its a crying shame.


No, maybe he just knows that HE, as a human being, logically cannot say there is or is NOT a GOD. 

Well, Pascal's wager has been debunked over and over again throughout the history of philosophy so I wouldn't use that argument if i were you...
Also, if your saying that the Bible predicted how the Elites move right now, and therefore the Bible's right, you've dismissed the argument "the Elites are trying to mimick what the Bible said" and i'd like to know why...

[chinajim]

China Jim here the nosiey historian I have had my doubt about bohemian grove in some aspects I have seen the video and heard all the rhetoric on both sides. But own did bring up a salient point if all these power brokers get together in a open wooded area running around in there BVD's or naked and doing God knows what and this is widely known how is it with all these guys doing this that Alex and that one wack-job that got in their past security and do what they did? I mean come on guys lets just say i am a freedom loving patriot who just happens to have a group of former spec warriors and we all feel the same way so what would stop them, from snooping and pooping in there and terminating the whole shooting match with extreme prejudice or what about a group of very pissed off yakuzas doing it In japan the yakuza oyibon's have a better Intel network that the Nippon Intel service and our own CIA its just that all these high powered folk showing up then security would be so tight a gnat could not fart with out someone knowing about it  unless the folks are so egotistical that they think they are invulnerable to attack then so be it. ( I am stating this as a idea not a definite act so any NSA or CIA folks leave me alone )

[jesqueal]

China Jim here the nosiey historian I have had my doubt about bohemian grove in some aspects I have seen the video and heard all the rhetoric on both sides. But own did bring up a salient point if all these power brokers get together in a open wooded area running around in there BVD's or naked and doing God knows what and this is widely known how is it with all these guys doing this that Alex and that one wack-job that got in their past security and do what they did? I mean come on guys lets just say i am a freedom loving patriot who just happens to have a group of former spec warriors and we all feel the same way so what would stop them, from snooping and pooping in there and terminating the whole shooting match with extreme prejudice or what about a group of very pissed off yakuzas doing it In japan the yakuza oyibon's have a better Intel network that the Nippon Intel service and our own CIA its just that all these high powered folk showing up then security would be so tight a gnat could not fart with out someone knowing about it  unless the folks are so egotistical that they think they are invulnerable to attack then so be it. ( I am stating this as a idea not a definite act so any NSA or CIA folks leave me alone )

Well bilderberg is held in a hotel (much easier to guard) and that Jim guy who follows bilderberg says he snuck in under a fence and crawled to the hotel...only to be spotted at the last minute. And Bildberberg has royalty and rockefellers - much more irreplaceable than a measly president.

So if Jim can get CLOSE to a LITTLE hotel, why cant Alex get INTO a HUGE camp? Once he's over the boundary all it takes is a nonchalant expression and he can go nearly anywhere.

Why don't they get assaulted by highly-trained special ops teams? Because they CONTROL the spec-ops teams you dummy.
Why don't Yakuza bust them? Because the Japanese Emperor would get a 'special' visit half an hour later that he wouldn't walk away from.

[mickswann]

Why do you insist that everyone who does NOT believe as you do (those who  have a 'faith' in something other than themselves) are wrong? If I judged other atheists by your standards, it would appear that atheists are just as intolerant and dismissive of other people's world view as they claim 'Christians"  or "Muslims" to be.  And the thing you cannot address or argue with, is that YOU (as a mortal human being) are no more able to say with any certainty that there IS NO GOD, or no Satan....any more than I can say for certain that there is one.  We will both find out when we die.  However, the results of one world view over another one.............are vastly different.

1. If I, as a Christian, die and there is NO 'afterlife' even though I have lived my life to the best of my ability following Jesus Christ........what have I 'missed out' on?  How was I wrong in doing that?

2. However, if I as a Christian die and there is an 'afterlife' and a Heaven and Hell, and I have lived my life according to my belief in Jesus Christ and HE really is THE way, the truth and the LIFE, the consequences are VASTLY different as far as my 'eternity'.

Conversely, if someone does not believe in life after death, or any deity that controls the universe....and this 'life' is all there is to their existence.....WHY not take the microchip?  If it comes down to saving your life (or your wife's or your families) or refusing and death being the result - which one are you going to choose?  You know which you will choose,   so what's with all the anger, protests? 

(Of course, humanity received a warning about all this - everything that is currently happening in the world - over 2000 years ago in a book of 'myths' .......but I guess that was just a bunch of old mystics sitting around smoking weird weed and having 'hallucinations'.  Yeah, it's all in there, from 'wars and rumours of wars', to the world being drawn up into 10 'super nations', to the devastation of Iraq, to the growing frequency of earthquakes, to 'the love of man growing cold' towards each other, to the apostasy of the church, to no one being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast,  to 'pestilence' and disease, and FAMINE.) 

No.  These are all just coincidences. Or since to blame "GOD" would require admittance that there is one, let's just blame man's belief in GOD for everything that is happening.

"its just AJ playing up to the christian right, as usual. Its a shame that HE won't ever talk about religion, in fact its a crying shame.


No, maybe he just knows that HE, as a human being, logically cannot say there is or is NOT a GOD. 

That's Russell's teapot, you could say the same thing about aliens from zeta-reticuli. Anyway, he's a believer, as the Monkees said, and so he would never rationally address the questions that "faith" has "answered" for him. For the record, I will say it: There is no god. It is a man-made belief that applies a dominative hierarchical mechanism to the universe as a whole. It started as a tool to explain and became a tool to enslave. God is no more than the original big brother, the ever watching punisher who sees all. It is a transparent mechanism of social control and I believe that if christians still had the capacity for objectivism they could see that instead of trying to drag us all down into the dark ages with them.

What I'm trying to say is that this whole 'satanic' element only exists in the minds of the christian right. I've never seen anything that suggests it to me, let alone proof. What I have seen is some footage, taken out of context and more misinterpretations of the works of Crowley than anyone should have to deal with in one lifetime.

Sure, there are satanists about, I know a couple, but its just occult humanism. Like with the pagans and the western tradition crowd, christians, sadly, have their own ideas about what these groups get up to. I can assure you that most ritual magicians of my acquaintance are rather dull people who just read endless liturgies to "god" in a startlingly dull manner, usually with all the verve of someone summarising their shopping list. I find "satanism" and ritual magic just as silly as religion per se, its all just people talking to their imaginary friend.

I just find it hard to take this satanic thing seriously, its just made-up disinfo. What Jones did was to take a silly ritual, albeit conducted by a very sinister group, and use it to advance his views. This becomes clear when he gets angry about the hippies and their "exorcism". I appreciate the chap, but he lets his religion get in the way of the facts from time to time.

And yes, I do think human beings are more important than silly old rulebooks, although I think it was probably mushrooms that inspired it, a cannabis inspired religion would never have settled for unleavened bread.

[yanaar]

<snip> For the record, I will say it: There is no god.

<snip>

You're in for a big surprise. 
                                             

[mickswann]

<snip>

You're in for a big surprise. 
                                             

He's behind you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TQYdtGB2-s

[Livefreeordie]

There is no god. It is a man-made belief that applies a dominative hierarchical mechanism to the universe as a whole. It started as a tool to explain and became a tool to enslave. God is no more than the original big brother, the ever watching punisher who sees all. It is a transparent mechanism of social control and I believe that if christians still had the capacity for objectivism they could see that instead of trying to drag us all down into the dark ages with them.

Would this just be your humble opinion?

If you are stating this is as fact, I would like to see some proof of this claim?

BTW, I'm a Christian and I'm not trying to drag anyone into the dark ages, I'm just trying to preach the Gospel of Christ to whoever wants to hear it............................if not, so be it.

When Christ was on the Earth, did He bind everyone up in shackles and say you WILL obey?

Hey, do what thou wilt, knock yourself out buddy, isn't it wonderful Christ didn't create us as robots? 

[Kilika]

"a cannabis inspired religion would never have settled for unleavened bread."

Dude, that is one of the most profound statesments I have ever read.

[superfender]

Watching that film has allowed me to put all the pieces together and see through the Alex Jones fraud. Throughout the entire film, not one person inside the grove, apart from Jones and his crew, is actually caught on camera. Now, I've heard Alex's rebuttal to this. He says that for obvious safety reasons he couldn't get too near to the centre of the activities, which is fair enough. So there are no elites on camera, fair enough.

But then part way through the film, it goes, "We were approached on numerous occasions by security guards. Unfortunately, because we were using a one-hour tape, these confrontations were not caught on camera". Well, isn't that convenient? I mean, if they ran out of tape, could they have not used his little camera to record? But that isn't even my point. Not one person is caught on camera apart from Jones and friends. You see, if the "security" guys were caught on camera, we would be able to go on the Internet, track down those people and figure out that they are paid actors.

The whole film is a bunch of people paid to wear robes and carry out some fancy stage show. No doubt.

With that said, does that mean there are no "secret" societies? EndGame clearly catches Rockefeller, Queen Beatrix and others at the Bilderberg meetings, but so what? They're rich. Money = power. They have every right to talk about what's going on in the world. They're the only ones with the finances to do anything about it. Plus, Bilderberg is pretty mainstream. A lot of people know. But does that mean that they're carrying out satanic rituals in front of owls at Bilderberg??? Of course not. And that's where this turns into unprovable conspiracy. Alex Jones' Bohemian Grove video is pure BS.

[P.S. sensible logical arguments are wanted. I want to be wrong about this, because I have spent months hooked to this conspiracy stuff, so I would like to think that it hasn't been a waste of time.]

The fact is that probably 364 days out of the year THERE ARE NO ELITES IN ATTENDANCE!!!  Unless you consider good ole boy golphers elite.  If Alex were to try to sneak in on a night when their were real elites there, he wouldn't of made in it, so their was probably no one to even film that night.

[Kilika]

<snip>

You're in for a big surprise. 
                                             

It's okay, God will make sure that he gets ample opportunity to change his position. In due time.