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Author Topic: This man claims to have debunked Griffin....  (Read 846 times)
purple-orange
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« on: March 30, 2008, 01:55:31 AM »

Ryan Mackey (http://911guide.googlepages.com/ryanmackey) in his work On Debunking 9/11 Debunking, claims to have debunked David Ray Griffin's NIST analysis. Anyone care to take a look and maybe debunk Mackey?
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jimd3100
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2008, 08:19:31 AM »

Ryan Mackey (http://911guide.googlepages.com/ryanmackey) in his work On Debunking 9/11 Debunking, claims to have debunked David Ray Griffin's NIST analysis. Anyone care to take a look and maybe debunk Mackey?

This report is 261 pages long. But I don't mind reading this kind of stuff, this guy is supposed to be a NASA genius, and I want to hear all sides. And frankly I wouldn't be  surprised to have some things DRG says debunked. But I'm only 19 pages into this report and I'm already becoming unimpressed with it.

from page 18/261: While there may be no examples of high-rise office buildings completely collapsing due to fire, it bears pointing out that there have been many steel-frame structure collapses due solely to fires. The McCormick Place exhibition hall is one such example, which collapsed in 1967 only 30 minutes after a small fire was accidentally started [23]. Another prominent example is the Mumbai High North Oil Platform [24], constructed of steel and seven stories high, which completely collapsed after burning for two hours following a shipping accident that ruptured oil lines. A third example, occurring after Dr. Griffin’s manuscript was finalized, is the collapse of the Interstate 580 overpass in the MacArthur Maze [25] near San Francisco.

So, after admitting there are no examples of high-rise office buildings collapsing due to fire, the author points out that there have been many steel-frame structure collapses due solely to fires. How many? Who knows. But he uses 3 examples, and so one would assume that these examples are the best and most comparable. Let's take a look at these 3 "steel framed structure collapses".

1. The McCormick Place exhibition hall.  First of all this warehouse had a roof collapse and Jim Hoffman has already covered this, you can even see the pic at Hoffmans website. There wasn't hundreds of thousands of tons of steel and concrete under that roof to,.....at the very least slow down a collapse....anyone see a problem with this comparison?
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/mccormick.html
BTW Hoffman is a top notch 9/11 researcher. Perhaps some day some of you no planers at the pentagon will consider what he has to say about that as well.

2. The second example to compare to the WTC is the Mumbai High North Oil Platform.
Well, all you have to do is go here to see for yourself the irrelevance of this comparison.. http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/CaseStudy/HistoricFires/Other/default.htm

3. Then the collapse of the Interstate 580 overpass in the MacArthur Maze. Anyone see a problem comparing this to a 10 second collapse of a 110 story skyscraper?
http://www.examiner.com/a-718131~Interstate_580_on_the_mend.html
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jannerbob
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 10:48:39 AM »

Leslie Robertson quote.

Quote
We had designed the project for the impact of the largest airplane of its time, the Boeing 707. The 767 that actually hit the WTC was quite another matter again. First of all it was a bit heavier than the 707, not very much heavier, but a bit heavier. But mostly it was flying a lot faster. And the
energy that it put into the building is proportional to its square of the velocity, as you double the velocity, four times the energy. Triple the velocity, eight times the energy and so forth.actually triple velocity means nine times the kinetic energy.And then of course with the 707 to the best of my knowledge the fuel load was not considered in the design, and indeed I don't know how it could have been considered. But, and with the 767 the fuel load was enormous compared to that of the 707, it was a fully, fully fuelled airplane compared to the 707 which was a landing aircraft. Uh, just absolutely no comparison between the two.

A 707 fully laden would have weighed 328,000lb.A fully laden 767 would weigh 395,000 lb so Robertson is right,but hang on it wasn,t fully laden was it.It was barely half full of passengers and cargo and only fueled for the trip meaning it only had 10,000 gallon of its 23,000 gallon capacity.Far from being much heavier it was in fact lighter.So a basic lesson on kinetic energy is that KE equals 1/2 X Mass X Velocity squared.Keep this in mind.

So who was Robertson?Well he worked,as an employee of Worthington,Skilling,Helle and Jackson.His boss was John Skilling considered a leader in his field.So what did Skilling say as it was obviously more important than what Robertson,the employee,said.

Quote
The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner{ Boeing 707 DC 8} traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.�


So taking the words of the organ grinder,not the monkey and using the equation given a fully laden 707 traveling at 600 mph would cause considerable more damage than a 767 traveling at 484mph not being fully laden so lighter and traveling slower.KE equals 1/2 X mass X velocity squared you can see already that i am right.Nearly forgot a 707 had four engines to a 767 which had two.

This is Mackay,s very first point and he is clearly being deceptive in not acknowledging Skillings words,yet relying totally on Robertson,s clear nonsense.First point and he failed miserably is there any need to carry on reading it?i don,t think so.
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