CHALLENGE TO ATHEISTS

[DAVIDE MTL]

I challenge all atheists to come up with a brief paragraph of what you would tell a 6th grader in order to persuade him if there is a God or if everything was one big accident. Here's what I would say:

Dear little Jimmy,
many  years ago earth was created by God, he created the mountains,the oceans,trees and us humans. If you need proof of this just look to the trees, every autumn the leaves fall from the trees, yet if you were to cut the branch off from the tree the leaves would not fall. This is because  trees  send signals to the branches for when they are supposed to fall. All part of the miraculous mysteries from our God.

[Amd304912]

thats like a dumb and dumber dialog. better leaving church and state class grades separate like it has been traditionally. that includes psuedodarwinism.

[Librium]

Is this serious?

[Sub-X]

Way to go there DAVIDE MTL,there just isn't enough religious posts on the board already 

[37]

Having worked outside I can say with great confidence that your proof is wrong.  If you cut a branch from a tree and don't give it water...the leaves will turn brown and die.  Cut the tap root of a tree and the leaves will turn brown and fall off in July.  And if the temperature drops early, then fall will come early.

Makes it hard to believe the rest of what you have to say...most 6th graders will see through you. 

[ringo78]

I have a challenge for Atheists.   Try this one out. 

Make up a genealogy,   it just has to fit these conditions. 

• The number of words must be divisible by 7, evenly.
• The number of letters must also be divisible by 7, evenly.
• The number of vowels and the number of consonants must also be
divisible by 7.
• The number of words that begin with a vowel must be divisible by 7.
• The number of words that begin with a consonant must be divisible
by 7.
• The number of words that occur more than once must be divisible
by 7.
• The number of words that occur in more than one form must be
divisible by 7.
• The number of words that occur in only one form must be divisible
by 7.
• The number of nouns shall be divisible by 7.
• Only 7 words shall not be nouns.
• The number of names shall be divisible by 7.
• Only 7 other kinds of nouns are permitted.
• The number of male names shall be divisible by 7.
• The number of generations shall be divisible by 7. (21)
• This is the genealogy of Jesus Christ found in Matthew (in Greek)!

[TimeLady]

I challenge all atheists to come up with a brief paragraph of what you would tell a 6th grader in order to persuade him if there is a God or if everything was one big accident. Here's what I would say:

Dear little Jimmy,
many  years ago earth was created by God, he created the mountains,the oceans,trees and us humans. If you need proof of this just look to the trees, every autumn the leaves fall from the trees, yet if you were to cut the branch off from the tree the leaves would not fall. This is because  trees  send signals to the branches for when they are supposed to fall. All part of the miraculous mysteries from our God.

huh? I don't get how that proves there's a God. (I'm not insulting you, there are merely better arguments.)

there are also complexities above us and complexities below us. None of those means that there is a God who created it all.

Oh, and:

I have a challenge for Atheists.   Try this one out. 

Make up a genealogy,   it just has to fit these conditions. 

• The number of words must be divisible by 7, evenly.
• The number of letters must also be divisible by 7, evenly.
• The number of vowels and the number of consonants must also be
divisible by 7.
• The number of words that begin with a vowel must be divisible by 7.
• The number of words that begin with a consonant must be divisible
by 7.
• The number of words that occur more than once must be divisible
by 7.
• The number of words that occur in more than one form must be
divisible by 7.
• The number of words that occur in only one form must be divisible
by 7.
• The number of nouns shall be divisible by 7.
• Only 7 words shall not be nouns.
• The number of names shall be divisible by 7.
• Only 7 other kinds of nouns are permitted.
• The number of male names shall be divisible by 7.
• The number of generations shall be divisible by 7. (21)
• This is the genealogy of Jesus Christ found in Matthew (in Greek)!

The Bible was written in Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek. Jesus likely spoke his words in Aramaic or Hebrew, instead of Greek.

What is all this in Hebrew, the original language of the Jewish Old Testament?

[DAVIDE MTL]

I'm not saying what I've said proves there's a God, what I would like to read is how an atheist would try to convince a young boy how there is no God, and that we're all here by accident. I read too many posts of people ridiculing others who believe there's a God, when the other belief which is we're all here by accident could just as well be ridiculed. How about this as a new rule for this site, no one ridicule someone's belief in God and no one ridicule someone's belief there is no God, let's concentrate on spreading the truth and the best way I know how is to give people copies of Loose Change, End Game, America Freedom to Fascism.  can I have an amen?

[mickswann]

I'm not saying what I've said proves there's a God, what I would like to read is how an atheist would try to convince a young boy how there is no God, and that we're all here by accident. I read too many posts of people ridiculing others who believe there's a God, when the other belief which is we're all here by accident could just as well be ridiculed. How about this as a new rule for this site, no one ridicule someone's belief in God and no one ridicule someone's belief there is no God, let's concentrate on spreading the truth and the best way I know how is to give people copies of Loose Change, End Game, America Freedom to Fascism.  can I have an amen?

The difference is that atheists don't go out foisting their views on small children.
Generally that kind of abusive inculcation is best left to the theocrats.

[ringo78]

The difference is that atheists don't go out foisting their views on small children.
Generally that kind of abusive inculcation is best left to the theocrats.

I remember learning about dinosaurs living millions of years ago as early as first grade.  I would say that is pushing your religion on kids in early stages of life.  If you repeat a lie long enough and often enough the people will believe it. 

What is all this in Hebrew, the original language of the Jewish Old Testament?

what does it matter,  you do not seem to have a point here. 

[thrashbassist]

Why would I want to try and fill a sixth-grader's head with ideology and rhetoric, if they are too young to clearly make an informed decision as to what they should believe? I'll leave that to the priests, rabbi's, and imam's, thank you.

[thrashbassist]

And for the record, I would also leave it to biased evolutionists.

[ringo78]

well this is a great argument for private schools.  We should get rid of public schools and this would not be an issue at all.  Then the most qualified students will get the jobs regardless of religious opinions,  be it evolution or creation.  But yes I do not think we should teach religion in public schools,  be it evolution or creation. 

[yanaar]

Oh.... does one light a torch to see the sun?  The existence of God is self-evident.

[ronaldomoon]

I remember learning about dinosaurs living millions of years ago as early as first grade.  I would say that is pushing your religion on kids in early stages of life.  If you repeat a lie long enough and often enough the people will believe it. 


what does it matter,  you do not seem to have a point here. 

I'm not an atheist or a Christian, but I do believe in God. I do not believe that digging up dinosaur bones and then telling people about it - as opposed to hiding them away or destroying them or making up some excuse for them being there (the devil?) - is a religion.

[ringo78]

there is no need to destroy dinosaur bones or hide them away,  that is just a silly notion.  Telling them that the bones are millions of years old at an early age to start to discredit Biblical teaching and to start indoctrinating them into evolution is religious and not backed by any empirical data,  only objectionable opinion.   

edit to add that dinosaur bones are also important to get kids interested in because they will also be used later to teach kids that the dinosaurs turned into birds,  another silly notion. 

[Amd304912]

to start indoctrinating them into evolution is religious and not backed by any empirical data,  only objectionable opinion.   

darwinism.... yeah he said it was gonna be used in ways out of context to his own research... it is not backed by scientific data either. evolving is as correct as the nephalim theory.

[ronaldomoon]

there is no need to destroy dinosaur bones or hide them away,  that is just a silly notion.  Telling them that the bones are millions of years old at an early age to start to discredit Biblical teaching and to start indoctrinating them into evolution is religious and not backed by any empirical data,  only objectionable opinion.   

edit to add that dinosaur bones are also important to get kids interested in because they will also be used later to teach kids that the dinosaurs turned into birds,  another silly notion. 

OK, I see where you're coming from now.

[ringo78]

well there are certainly variations within the animals,  that is not questionable.  This observation does not nor can it prove that all animals and plants have a common ancestor,  that extrapolation is just too much and they try very hard to justify it with no empirical evidence.  As far as the Nephalim go,  well there were Nephalim,  whether they were fallen angles or just giant people can be debated.   

[Novus Ordo]

How about this as a new rule for this site, no one ridicule someone's belief in God and no one ridicule someone's belief there is no God, let's concentrate on spreading the truth and the best way I know how is to give people copies of Loose Change, End Game, America Freedom to Fascism.  can I have an amen?

A little hypocritical given the title of your topic .

Am I to assume little Jimmy is questioning the existence of god?
or are you just querying how we would set about messing with his mind even further?

[creat3d]

I challenge all atheists to come up with a brief paragraph of what you would tell a 6th grader in order to persuade him if there is a God or if everything was one big accident. Here's what I would say:

Dear little Jimmy,
many  years ago earth was created by God, he created the mountains,the oceans,trees and us humans. If you need proof of this just look to the trees, every autumn the leaves fall from the trees, yet if you were to cut the branch off from the tree the leaves would not fall. This is because  trees  send signals to the branches for when they are supposed to fall. All part of the miraculous mysteries from our God.

Your ridiculous "proof" sounds like it's explained BY a 6th grader.


Dear Jimmy,
Some people think that everything was created by an invisible, all-knowing, all-powerful entity they call "god". Other people think that the universe was created by a physical phenomenon of some sort, of which one theory is called "big bang". Some people would say that we were genetically engineered by creatures living on another planet, while others think that humans actually came from another planet and colonised Earth. There are also people who would think that the entire universe and our existence is a sort of illusion, a dream if you will, while others have simply no idea where the hell we come from.

If you ask me, my dear Jimmy, I would suggest you study and research all possible theories regarding our origin and the origin of everything around us. Then, and only then, shall you be able to make a semi-informed decision on what you should believe... and even then, you'll probably be wrong since there's no way of knowing right now. Just don't quickly jump to absurd conclusions simply because a pedophile in a black robe tells you that a mysterious, magical being created everything.

Have a nice life, Jimmy!

[ringo78]

If you ask me, my dear Jimmy, I would suggest you study and research all possible theories regarding our origin and the origin of everything around us. Then, and only then, shall you be able to make a semi-informed decision on what you should believe... and even then, you'll probably be wrong since there's no way of knowing right now. Just don't quickly jump to absurd conclusions simply because a pedophile in a black robe tells you that a mysterious, magical being created everything.

Have a nice life, Jimmy!

your words are very true,  just not all religious ideas come from pedophiles in black robes.   

[thrashbassist]

It would be better just to tell little Jimmy to question everything, no matter how reasonable it sounds. And don't let some random jackass who you don't even know tell you what to believe, no matter if he be in robes, or a suit and tie.

[TimeLady]

what does it matter,  you do not seem to have a point here. 

if it is so in Greek then it should be so in the languages that Jesus would actually have been familiar with.

[zafada]

Creat3d, I was going to write my Dear Jimmy paragraph but you summed it up for me.  Thanks.

[DAVIDE MTL]

Your ridiculous "proof" sounds like it's explained BY a 6th grader.


Dear Jimmy,
Some people think that everything was created by an invisible, all-knowing, all-powerful entity they call "god". Other people think that the universe was created by a physical phenomenon of some sort, of which one theory is called "big bang". Some people would say that we were genetically engineered by creatures living on another planet, while others think that humans actually came from another planet and colonised Earth. There are also people who would think that the entire universe and our existence is a sort of illusion, a dream if you will, while others have simply no idea where the hell we come from.

If you ask me, my dear Jimmy, I would suggest you study and research all possible theories regarding our origin and the origin of everything around us. Then, and only then, shall you be able to make a semi-informed decision on what you should believe... and even then, you'll probably be wrong since there's no way of knowing right now. Just don't quickly jump to absurd conclusions simply because a pedophile in a black robe tells you that a mysterious, magical being created everything.

Have a nice life, Jimmy!
[/quote

Jimmy doesn't know what genetically engineered means, and he's asking what does big bang mean, he's in grade 6 not university........... I mentioned what I said isn't proof although it's true about the leaves....I take it you  don't have kids

[Librium]

If you ask me, my dear Jimmy, I would suggest you study and research all possible theories regarding our origin and the origin of everything around us. Then, and only then, shall you be able to make a semi-informed decision on what you should believe... and even then, you'll probably be wrong since there's no way of knowing right now. Just don't quickly jump to absurd conclusions simply because a pedophile in a black robe tells you that a mysterious, magical being created everything.

Have a nice life, Jimmy!

BINGO

[Amishism]

The "pedophiles in black robes" don't promote creation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_and_the_Roman_Catholic_Church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man
"Peking Man" hoax also

They are wrong.

[creat3d]

Jimmy doesn't know what genetically engineered means, and he's asking what does big bang mean, he's in grade 6 not university........... I mentioned what I said isn't proof although it's true about the leaves....I take it you  don't have kids

I wasn't speaking to a kid, I was writing a few lines of text on a computer screen. For what I assume is a majority of adults.

[DAVIDE MTL]

the point is to break down in simple terms what you tell your kid about your beliefs, to me there are 2 ways, A there is a creator who created the earth, he'll most probably ask where is this creator, i'll tell him in the sky and hopefully it will be it until he's old enough to do his own research

B. there is no creator, we are here by accident....(unless there's a better way to tell him, so far I haven't gotten a good response of what someone would tell their kid in simple terms

[superfender]

The difference is that atheists don't go out foisting their views on small children.
Generally that kind of abusive inculcation is best left to the theocrats.

No they don't, they have the TV to do that, ever watch TV lately? 

[mickswann]

No they don't, they have the TV to do that, ever watch TV lately? 

Are you being facetious?

Anyway, how old is grade 6 in real terms? Is it young enough for him to still believe in Father Christmas and the tooth fairy or is he too old for that?

Its a genuine enquiry, we don't have that here, we have 'first year', 'second year' etc.

[thrashbassist]

Grade 6 is like 11, 12, 13-year-olds.

[m]

I'm sorry Jimmy you're here by accident.  It was a late drunken night with me and your mom... 

[mickswann]

In that case, I'd just have a chat with him about dinosaurs. All twelve year-old boys are crazy about dinosaurs.
Then I'd explain that some people, called christians, think that dinosaurs were put there as a joke, or a test, or something, by an old man who lives in the sky. They believe that the old man in the sky loves everyone, but he has a big book full of rules and if you break one he will burn you forever in a pit.
But its ok, he loves and forgives everyone, with the obvious exception of the people he burns.
You see Jimmy, people are willing to believe some crazy things. They used to believe that the world was flat, then they thought the sun orbited the earth, the Romans thought it was fine to drink water from lead pipes and, when you were younger, you believed in Father Christmas.
Then Jimmy and I would have a long chat about PT Barnum.

[yanaar]

I challenge all atheists to come up with a brief paragraph of what you would tell a 6th grader in order to persuade him if there is a God or if everything was one big accident. Here's what I would say:

Dear little Jimmy,
many  years ago earth was created by God, he created the mountains,the oceans,trees and us humans. If you need proof of this just look to the trees, every autumn the leaves fall from the trees, yet if you were to cut the branch off from the tree the leaves would not fall. This is because  trees  send signals to the branches for when they are supposed to fall. All part of the miraculous mysteries from our God.

I don't think children need lessons in finding the mysteries of nature.  A caterpiller is enough for most kids to ponder endlessly, along with ants, bees, lizards, whatever.  So... what's your point?

If you're asking how to talk to a child about God... well ... I think there have been other's before you who have attempted this quest.  If you're trying to point out that atheists are wrong in negating God... what does that have to do with the natural curiousity of children?

I'm losing the point of this thread... unless it's about joking at the topic.

[Gruntled Employee]

A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle

Fossil records trump anything religious wingnuts can dream up... given a choice to believe hard evidence over make-believe omnipotent beings, I will pick the hard facts. As far as what to tell a child, You tell them that there are various beliefs and explain some differences and eventually they will choose the path that best suits them as did all of you.

[mickswann]

I'm losing the point of this thread... unless it's about joking at the topic.

Yes, that was my understanding.

[Amishism]

A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle

Fossil records trump anything religious wingnuts can dream up... given a choice to believe hard evidence over make-believe omnipotent beings, I will pick the hard facts. As far as what to tell a child, You tell them that there are various beliefs and explain some differences and eventually they will choose the path that best suits them as did all of you.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=32204.msg134289#msg134289

[Amd304912]

still egg before chicken... ehh farce.