House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!

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Offline jofortruth

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House to Vote on Heathcare Bill Thursday (Vote will be today 1:30 pm EST)
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/20...-bill-thursday/

HR 1628 The main Bill:
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr1628/text

A Summary:
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr1628/summary


MacArthur Amendment
http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20170424/MacArthur%20Amendment.pdf


Quote
Pg 7. (b) NO LIMITING ACCESS TO COVERAGE FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed as permitting health insurance issuers to limit access to health coverage for individuals with preexisting conditions.

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2017/04/25/the-macarthur-amendment-language-race-in-the-federal-exchange-and-risk-adjustment-coefficients/
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/27/politics/gop-health-care-macarthur-amendment/

Watch vote live:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?427816-1/us-h...ealth-care-bill

Quote
The announcement comes after a tumultuous process for the bill, which has seen previously scheduled votes pulled after Speaker Paul Ryan failed to accumulate enough Republican support on prior attempts to pass the bill.

House Freedom Caucus chairman Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) stepped up and helped negotiate, with Tuesday Group co-chairman Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-NJ), a revised version of the bill–dubbed the MacArthur amendment–that revived the effort and collected presumably enough Republican votes to pass the bill.

Meadows’ efforts in no small part seem to have succeeded where Ryan failed, rallying his House Republican colleagues behind a years-long campaign promise to repeal and replace Obamacare–despite the fact this bill doesn’t constitute a full repeal of the previous president’s signature law.

Vice President Mike Pence, White House chief of staff Reince Priebus, and others have worked alongside congressional Republicans, especially Meadows–who has emerged as a force in the negotiating process so strong some have begun calling him the acting speaker of the House in the wake of Ryan’s failures–to bring the new bill to the brink of passage.


Maybe Ryan should be replaced by Meadows if he gets this passed. Ryan is on the wrong side, thus not doing his job.


The medical system is a mess. Obamacare made the system even worse. It was not a fix. The whole system needs revamping and returned to real healthcare. This is the beginning of that happening! Anyone not voting for this bill should be fired. They are part of the problem in DC.
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Offline jofortruth

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Notice how all the Democrats keep saying 24 million will not be covered. You see, Obamacare only cared about 24 million out of 300 + million Americans. The rest of America was left out with ridiculously high premiums, high deductibles where they could not even use their coverage, no choice of doctors, and more insanity.

Most Americans chose to pay the penalty rather than have stupid non healthcare they could not even use or afford.

Democrats talk about backdoor deals in this bill. Several Dems complained about bills added last night. Get this, they were amendments two pages max. If those Dems cant read two pgs they dont belong in Congress. These are ignorant obstructionists yapping today on the house floor. Look up how they manipulated Obamacare through the system. The hypocrisy and stupidity coming from the Dems now is astounding! All they do is scream, spout the same talking points (certain Dems say preexisting conditions not covered, yet they are - see pg 7 excerpt above in MacArthur Amendment), use emotion and fearmongering, and then wonder why they have no respect from thinking Americans of all persuasions.

Obamacare is collapsed and some say intentionally so they could bring in a singlepayer system. This change today is A MUST! More people will be covered with this system.

Also, the poor have always had access to healthcare called charity care that hospitals were required to provide. Example below!
http://www.nj.gov/health/charitycare/

DEMOCRATS QUIT LYING AND ACTING LIKE FOOLS.

And remember - Congress has their own insurance with all the perks. They are not on Obamacare!  More hypocrisy!

ALSO, ALL CONGRESSMEN SHOULD BE ON SAME HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AS THEIR CONSTITUENTS. PERIOD!
THIS CRAP OF ONE RULE FOR DC AND ANOTHER FOR THE PEOPLE IS A JOKE!

 ::)
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Offline jofortruth

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Rep Michael Burgess (R-TX) talked about this bill to disallow waivers for Congress and staff, so they are treated like all citizens in healthcare (H.R.2192)

https://www.congress.gov/115/bills/hr2192/BILLS-115hr2192ih.pdf

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/2192/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22congressId%3A115+AND+billStatus%3A%5C%22Introduced%5C%22%22%5D%7D&r=33


Quote
To amend the Public Health Service Act to eliminate the non-application of certain State waiver provisions to Members of Congress and congressional staff.

Interesting, I just said above this is only fair, and then i heard Burgess talk about this bill. Lets see how many Congressmen say NO to be treated like all citizens. These people should be sent home if they vote NO on this also. The hypocrisy and better-than-thou attitude of Congress must stop.


CONGRESS SHOULD LIVE BY THE SAME LAWS IT PASSES!
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Offline jofortruth

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https://www.c-span.org/video/?427816-1/us-house-poised-vote-health-care-bill

Vote expected at 1:30 pm EST today. They need 216 votes to pass. They say they have them.



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Offline Satyagraha

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CONGRESS SHOULD LIVE BY THE SAME LAWS IT PASSES!

I think congress should have the same healthcare they offer to their constituents.
Bet we'd see a great healthcare plan.
And  the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, 
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,  ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25:40

Offline TahoeBlue

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another screwed up mess from Ryan and the insurance companies ...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline jofortruth

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Voting just started on 3 bills HR 2192, HR 1628, HR 1644


Main Bill HR 1628 passed 217 - 213 (20 Repubs voted No)


The Vote

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2017/roll256.xml


Some of the NO votes on this list

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/these-are-republicans-opposing-trump-s-health-care-bill-n737116
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Online chris jones

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I think congress should have the same healthcare they offer to their constituents.
Bet we'd see a great healthcare plan. AMEN
            Burgess tried to make it plain and simple, congress works for the people, not the other way around.. they are not privleged lil sucklings, (or are they)?.
  Yup, the fact is most of congress are well  off, much better than the working class Johny Q Citizen.

Making It Rain: Members of Congress Are Mostly Millionaires - First ...
https://www.nytimes.com/.../making-it-rain-members-of-congress-are-mostly-milliona...
Jan 12, 2015 - Members of Congress hold a lot of the power in America and, a new report shows, plenty of wealth. In fact, more than half of them are ...

Offline jofortruth

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Heres another viewpoint. However, it is now up to the Senate to correct some things in the bill. Hopefully, Rand and others can help do that in the Senate.


Rand: AHCA ‘First Time’ GOP Has Supported ‘Deplorable’ Practice of Subsidizing Insurance Companies

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/05/04/rand-ahca-first-time-gop-has-supported-deplorable-practice-of-subsidizing-insurance-companies/


Todays vote is but a first step to correcting the healthcare system. There will be additional steps over time to correct what was done today. Obamacare created such a mess that it cant be undone quickly, and by one bill. Plus you have the big pharma dudes, etc trying to keep their monopolies. So this is going to be a fight for a while, IMO! No easy job fighting the monopoly men in healthcare.
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Offline jofortruth

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List of Obamacare Taxes Repealed
http://www.atr.org/list-obamacare-taxes-repealed


Quote
The American Health Care Act (HR 1628) passed by the House today reduces taxes on the American people by over $1 trillion. The bill abolishes the following taxes imposed by Obama and the Democrat party in 2010 as part of Obamacare:

-Abolishes the Obamacare Individual Mandate Tax which hits 8 million Americans each year.

-Abolishes the Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax. Together with repeal of the Individual Mandate Tax repeal this is a $270 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s Medicine Cabinet Tax which hits 20 million Americans with Health Savings Accounts and 30 million Americans with Flexible Spending Accounts. This is a $6 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s Flexible Spending Account tax on 30 million Americans. This is a $20 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s Chronic Care Tax on 10 million Americans with high out of pocket medical expenses. This is a $126 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s HSA withdrawal tax. This is a $100 million tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s 10% excise tax on small businesses with indoor tanning services. This is a $600 million tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare health insurance tax. This is a $145 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare 3.8% surtax on investment income. This is a $172 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare medical device tax. This is a $20 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare tax on prescription medicine. This is a $28 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare tax on retiree prescription drug coverage. This is a $2 billion tax cut.




Obamacare had to go.
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Offline jofortruth

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Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

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Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2017, 11:14:20 PM »
another day at the swamp ...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline jofortruth

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Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

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Offline jofortruth

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2017, 11:40:08 PM »
BREAKING: House Narrowly Passes Healthcare Bill -- Here's What You Need to Know

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2017/05/04/here-we-go-the-house-votes-on-trumpcare-n2322286

Quote
important first step in the process of cleaning up the unsustainable mess created exclusively by Democrats in 2009 and 2010. Yes, it is fraught with political risk, but so is failing to act.
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Offline jofortruth

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2017, 11:54:02 PM »
Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

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Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2017, 12:24:01 AM »
Even Ralph Nader advocates "repealing and replacing" Obamacare.

https://blog.nader.org/2013/11/21/21-ways-canadian-health-care-system-better-obamacare/

Why should any rational person automatically assume that what the Republican Party promotes replacing it with is automatically better than what Nader promotes replacing it with?

Because the only alternative to a corporate fascist (er, beg pardon, "free market") system that price-gouges people into bankruptcy while lining the pockets of the insurance and pharmaceutical cartels is to turn America into a replica of Venezuela or North Korea?

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/94/False-Dilemma
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline egypt

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2017, 03:49:48 AM »


I won't know how to act with all this oppression lifting.. hahaha

love, e

Online Jackson Holly

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2017, 07:03:51 AM »

... we have to applaud at least this attempt to begin
a cure for Obamacare. If something passes in the Senate
it will probably be even more watered down.

I have often said that the main problem with 'healthcare'
in this country are the EXORBITANT costs ... they are so
ridiculously stratospheric that everything is skewed ... especially
drugs. Here's the reason: Americans are paying several timesX MORE
for their drugs so as to subsidize drugs/care for the third world (and
2nd world). Pills for which we pay $5,000 for a year's prescription
are handed out for maybe $50 to third worlders ...
GOLBALIST WELFARE ... WE PAY!
St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline jofortruth

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Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

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Offline egypt

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2017, 12:36:58 PM »

... we have to applaud at least this attempt to begin
a cure for Obamacare. If something passes in the Senate
it will probably be even more watered down.

I have often said that the main problem with 'healthcare'
in this country are the EXORBITANT costs ... they are so
ridiculously stratospheric that everything is skewed ... especially
drugs. Here's the reason: Americans are paying several timesX MORE
for their drugs so as to subsidize drugs/care for the third world (and
2nd world). Pills for which we pay $5,000 for a year's prescription
are handed out for may $50 to third worlders ...
GOLBALIST WELFARE ... WE PAY!
Yes, it was when insurance companies entered the scene and started running things health-wise that the prices skyrocketed.  And, the quality of healthcare went from gorgeous, attentive, private-care doctors' offices to smelly, run-down clinics.

People could see any doctor, specialist, or not per their choice.  The bill was paid like any other bill.  If large, in some payments.

love, e





Online chris jones

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2017, 12:50:10 PM »
  I can`t get a line on pre existing condition costs, there is all kinds of chatter insinuating these conditions will pay through the nose / is it fake news, or can we expect this to be regulated?

Offline jofortruth

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2017, 01:55:59 PM »
Rep. Phil Roe: House Healthcare Bill ‘Giant Step’ in Process of Replacing Obamacare (Roe is the new Veterans affairs committee chair in the House. He is also a doctor.)

http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2017/05/05/rep-phil-roe-house-healthcare-bill-giant-step-process-replacing-obamacare/
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Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2017, 02:14:08 PM »
What people don't seem to get ...

The Insurance Companies OWN many of the HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS ie hospitals ...

So when they pay a claim they pay themselves ! ... Get it now ? (Aggregation of profit monopoly )

That's the NAZI single payer system they want ..
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2017, 02:53:23 PM »
What people don't seem to get ...

The Insurance Companies OWN many of the HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS ie hospitals ...

So when they pay a claim they pay themselves ! ... Get it now ? (Aggregation of profit monopoly )

That's the NAZI single payer system they want ..

What people don't seem to get is that, under Single Payer, private health insurance companies are removed from the health care equation altogether.

The idea that they "want" a system that would put them out of business is beyond ridiculous.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/march/obama_to_single_paye.php

Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead

Corporate Crime Reporter
March 3, 2009

President Obama’s White House made crystal clear this week: a Canadian-style, Medicare-for-all, single payer health insurance system is off the table.

Obama doesn’t even want to discuss it.

Take the case of Congressman John Conyers (D-Michigan).

Conyers is the leading advocate for single payer health insurance in Congress.

Last week, Conyers attended a Congressional Black Caucus meeting with President Obama at the White House.

During the meeting, Congressman Conyers, sponsor of the single payer bill in the House (HR 676), asked President Obama for an invite to the President’s Marchy 5 health care summit at the White House.

Conyers said he would bring along with him two doctors — Dr. Marcia Angell and Dr. Quentin Young — to represent the majority of physicians in the United States who favor single payer.

Obama would have none of it.

This week, by e-mail, Conyers heard back from the White House — no invite.

Why not?

Well, believe it or not, the Obama White House is under the thumb of the health insurance industry.

Obama has become the industry’s chief enforcer of its key demand: single payer health insurance is off the table.

[Continued...]


https://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/11/08-0

HR 3962: Why I Voted NO

by Dennis Kucinich
Common Dreams   
November 8, 2009

We have been led to believe that we must make our health care choices only within the current structure of a predatory, for-profit insurance system which makes money not providing health care. We cannot fault the insurance companies for being what they are. But we can fault legislation in which the government incentivizes the perpetuation, indeed the strengthening, of the for-profit health insurance industry, the very source of the problem. When health insurance companies deny care or raise premiums, co-pays and deductibles they are simply trying to make a profit. That is our system.

Clearly, the insurance companies are the problem, not the solution. They are driving up the cost of health care. Because their massive bureaucracy avoids paying bills so effectively, they force hospitals and doctors to hire their own bureaucracy to fight the insurance companies to avoid getting stuck with an unfair share of the bills. The result is that since 1970, the number of physicians has increased by less than 200% while the number of administrators has increased by 3000%. It is no wonder that 31 cents of every health care dollar goes to administrative costs, not toward providing care. Even those with insurance are at risk. The single biggest cause of bankruptcies in the U.S. is health insurance policies that do not cover you when you get sick.

But instead of working toward the elimination of for-profit insurance, H.R. 3962 would put the government in the role of accelerating the privatization of health care. In H.R. 3962, the government is requiring at least 21 million Americans to buy private health insurance from the very industry that causes costs to be so high, which will result in at least $70 billion in new annual revenue, much of which is coming from taxpayers. This inevitably will lead to even more costs, more subsidies, and higher profits for insurance companies - a bailout under a blue cross.

By incurring only a new requirement to cover pre-existing conditions, a weakened public option, and a few other important but limited concessions, the health insurance companies are getting quite a deal. The Center for American Progress' blog, Think Progress, states, 'since the President signaled that he is backing away from the public option, health insurance stocks have been on the rise.' Similarly, healthcare stocks rallied when Senator Max Baucus introduced a bill without a public option. Bloomberg reports that Curtis Lane, a prominent health industry investor, predicted a few weeks ago that 'money will start flowing in again' to health insurance stocks after passage of the legislation. Investors.com last month reported that pharmacy benefit managers share prices are hitting all-time highs, with the only industry worry that the Administration would reverse its decision not to negotiate Medicare Part D drug prices, leaving in place a Bush Administration policy.

During the debate, when the interests of insurance companies would have been effectively challenged, that challenge was turned back. The 'robust public option' which would have offered a modicum of competition to a monopolistic industry was whittled down from an initial potential enrollment of 129 million Americans to 6 million. An amendment which would have protected the rights of states to pursue single-payer health care was stripped from the bill at the request of the Administration. Looking ahead, we cringe at the prospect of even greater favors for insurance companies.

Recent rises in unemployment indicate a widening separation between the finance economy and the real economy. The finance economy considers the health of Wall Street, rising corporate profits, and banks' hoarding of cash, much of it from taxpayers, as sign of an economic recovery. However in the real economy - in which most Americans live - the recession is not over. Rising unemployment, business failures, bankruptcies and foreclosures are still hammering Main Street.

This health care bill continues the redistribution of wealth to Wall Street at the expense of America's manufacturing and service economies which suffer from costs other countries do not have to bear, especially the cost of health care. America continues to stand out among all industrialized nations for its privatized health care system. As a result, we are less competitive in steel, automotive, aerospace and shipping while other countries subsidize their exports in these areas through socializing the cost of health care.

Notwithstanding the fate of H.R. 3962, America will someday come to recognize the broad social and economic benefits of a not-for-profit, single-payer health care system, which is good for the American people and good for America's businesses, with of course the notable exceptions being insurance and pharmaceuticals.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/what-is-obamacare.html

What Is ObamaCare?

Paul Craig Roberts
Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, April 10, 2012

Growing up in the post-war era (after the Second World War), I never expected to live in the strange Kafkaesque world that exists today. The US government can assassinate any US citizen that the executive branch thinks could possibly be a “threat” to the US government, or throw the hapless citizen into a dungeon for the rest of his or her life without presenting any evidence to a court or obtaining a conviction of any crime, or send the “threat” to a puppet foreign state to be tortured until the “threat” confesses to a crime that never occurred or dies at the hands of “freedom and democracy” while professing innocence.

It has never been revealed how a single citizen, or any number thereof, could possibly comprise a threat to a government that has a trillion plus dollars to spend each year on security and weapons, the world’s largest navy and air force, 700 plus military bases across the world, large numbers of nuclear weapons, 16 intelligence agencies plus the intelligence agencies of its NATO puppet states and the intelligence service of Israel.

Nevertheless, air travelers are subjected to porno-scanning and sexual groping. Cars traveling on Interstate highways can expect to be stopped, with traffic backed up for miles, while Homeland Security and the federalized state or local police conduct searches.

I witnessed one such warrantless search on Easter Sunday. The south bound lanes of I-185 heading into Columbus, Georgia, were at a standstill while black SUV and police car lights flashed. US citizens were treated by “security” forces that they finance as if they were “terrorists” or “domestic extremists,” another undefined class of Americans devoid of constitutional protections.

These events are Kafkaesque in themselves, but they are ever more so when one considers that these extraordinary violations of the US Constitution fail to be overturned in the Supreme Court. Apparently, American citizens lack standing to defend their civil liberties.

Yet, ObamaCare is before the US Supreme Court. The conservative majority might now utilize the “judicial activism” for which conservatives have criticized liberals. Hypocrisy should no longer surprise us. However, the fight over ObamaCare is not worth five cents.

It is extraordinary that “liberals,” “progressives,” “Democrats,” whatever they are, are defending a “health program” that uses public monies to pay private insurance companies and that raises the cost of health care.

Americans have been brainwashed that “a single-payer system is unaffordable” because it is “socialized medicine.” Despite this propaganda, accepted by many Americans, European countries manage to afford single-payer systems. Health care is not a stress, a trauma, an unaffordable expense for European populations. Among the Western Civilized Nations, only the richest, the US, has no universal health care.

The American health care system is the most expensive of all on earth. The reason for the extraordinary expense is the multiple of entities that must make profits. The private doctors must make profits. The private testing centers must make profits.The private specialists who receive the referrals from general practitioners must make profits. The private hospitals must make profits. The private insurance companies must make profits. The profits are a huge cost of health care.

On top of these profits come the costs of preventing and combatting fraud. Because private insurance companies resist paying and Medicare pays a small fraction of the medical charges, private health care providers charge as much as they possibly can, knowing that the payments will be cut to the bone. But a billing mistake of even $300 can bankrupt a health care provider from legal expenses defending him/her self from fraud accusations.

The beauty of a single-payer system is that it takes the profits out of the system. No one has to make profits. Wall Street cannot threaten insurance companies and private health care companies with being taken over because their profits are too low. No health-provider in a single-payer system has to worry about being displaced in a takeover organized by Wall Street because the profits are too low.

Because a single-payer system eliminates the profits that drive up the costs, Wall Street, Insurance companies, and “free market economists” hate a “socialized” medical care system. They prefer a socialized “private” health care system in which public monies flow into private insurance companies.

To make the costs as high as possible, conservatives and the private insurance companies devised ObamaCare. The bill was written by conservative think tanks and the private insurance companies. What the “socialistic” ObamaCare bill does is to take income taxes paid by citizens and use the taxes to subsidize the private medical premiums charges by private health care providers in order to provide “private” health care to US citizens who cannot afford it.

The extremely high costs of ObamaCare is not “socialistic medicine.” ObamaCare is high-cost privatized medicine that guarantees billions of dollars in profits to private insurance companies.

It remains to be seen whether such a ridiculous health care scheme, nowhere extant on earth except in Romney’s Massachusetts, will provide health care or just private profits.
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2017, 03:13:51 PM »
What people don't seem to get is that, under Single Payer, private health insurance companies are removed from the health care equation altogether.

NO ...  the "private" IC (industrial Complex) would operate as NGO's servicing the govt. health contracts ... Purely Monopoly Fascist in nature

again what citizen's do not seem to understand about the scam 
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline jofortruth

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Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2017, 04:41:14 PM »
NO ...  the "private" IC (industrial Complex) would operate as NGO's servicing the govt. health contracts ... Purely Monopoly Fascist in nature

again what citizen's do not seem to understand about the scam

So the tens of thousands of physicians who openly support single-payer health insurance are part of an evil conspiracy to impose a "monopoly fascist" health care system on the American people?

Obama's removal of single-payer from the "table" of discussion was just his clever way of promoting single-payer?

What will we be expected to believe next -- that Obama's opposition to the 2nd Amendment was really just his underhanded way of supporting the 2nd Amendment?

I've heard of molding political reality so that it conforms to one's ideology (instead of the other way around), but this is getting ridiculous.
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline jofortruth

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2017, 04:55:42 PM »
Canada and US medical system compared

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/bp300-e.htm


Canada has a problem getting doctors, especially in rural areas. Some rural hospitals disappearing or scaled down to basics. Waiting lines for certain types of surgeries.  Thousands have no doctor. Single payer is not a perfect system.



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Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2017, 05:04:50 PM »
So the tens of thousands of physicians who openly support single-payer health insurance are part of an evil conspiracy to impose a "monopoly fascist" health care system on the American people?
...

The 38 percent (140,000) of physicians work for the hospitals ...ie the  corporations :

Lets see "PNHP has more than 20,000 members and chapters across the United States....  physician activists "  is less then the 140000 docs working for hospitals ...  I also would suspect that a large portion of those PNHP docs work for and get there salary from the govt ( like the NIH )

http://fortune.com/2015/06/20/fortune-500-biggest-healthcare-companies/
The 10 biggest health-care companies in the Fortune 500
Laura Lorenzetti
Jun 20, 2015
...
3. UnitedHealth Group
Fortune 500 rank: 14
2014 revenue: $130.5 billion

Year-over-year revenue change: 6.5%

UnitedHealth Group serves more than 85 million patients worldwide with its health benefits and services. It's the largest U.S. health insurer, surpassing the likes of Kaiser Foundation Group and Anthem. Their businesses don’t stop there: CEO Stephen Hemsley has been investing heavily in Optum, its health services arm, which includes a pharmacy benefits manager (PBM) and health data analytics.

....

9. Anthem
Fortune 500 rank: 38
2014 revenue: $73.9 billion

Year-over-year revenue change: 3.4%

Anthem, known as Wellpoint before last year, has faced a rough patch over the last six months. In early February, it was revealed that the Indianapolis-based company’s database had been penetrated by a hacker attack, affecting 78.8 million people. The attack exposed names, birthdays, Social Security numbers and other personal data, though there’s still no evidence that any medical data or financial information was breached. Anthem, the second-biggest health insurer in the U.S., has been working to contain the breach and inform affected patients while facing an onslaught of lawsuits related to the incursion.

Despite the security breach, Anthem’s (wlp) enrollment growth has continued. In the first three months of this year, the group added 1 million more patients to reach a total of 38.5 million.
...

| - - -

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/physician-leaders/number-hospital-employed-physicians-50-2012
Number of Hospital-Employed Physicians Up 50% Since 2012
HealthLeaders Media News, September 8, 2016

One-in-four medical practices is now owned by a hospital or health system, and hospitals employed 38% of all U.S. physicians in 2015.

Hospitals have gone on a physician feeding frenzy, with the number of practices owned by hospitals and health systems rising 86% from 2012-15, a study from the Physicians Advocacy Institute shows.

The acquisitions are occurring in all regions of the country over the three-year span, according to the report, which also found that 38% of U.S. physicians were employed by hospitals and health systems in mid-2015.

That's a 50% increase between 2012 and 2015, growing from 95,000 employed physicians in 2012 to more than 140,000 employed physicians in 2015.


| - - - -


http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/05/09/the-tangled-hospital-physician-relationship/
The Tangled Hospital-Physician Relationship

Jeff Goldsmith, Nathan Kaufman, and Lawton Burns

May 9, 2016


Together, hospital and physician services account for more than half of national health spending. In its 2014 National Health Expenditures estimates, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services’ actuaries make the hospital (nearly $1 trillion) and physician practice (nearly $600 billion) sectors appear to be independent and non-overlapping. This is an optical illusion. Hospitals and physicians are, in day-to-day practice, hopelessly intertwined.

And while power appears to be shifting from physicians to hospitals with the increasing salaried employment of physicians, appearances can be deceiving. This post discusses the economic power balance between hospitals and physician communities, and the policy levers that influence this complex relationship — a relationship that is evolving in a way that could increase financial pressures on both hospitals and the American health system.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Online chris jones

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2017, 05:23:47 PM »
  I can`t comment intelligently on the trumpcare bill, it`s not over yet, all the cards aren`t on the table.
  The only thing I can add to this is basic sh**t, Bigpharma S**cks, Insurance company`s, hospitol billing.
  They are in cahoots.   
   A doctor examed my family, a 20 minute visit, we all had the same flu, he then charged for each family member.
   This raised the bill from one visit to five, no blood tests, nothing more than a physical basic exam.
 I had the audacity to question this slob in his white coat why he charged for each member of my family when the diganosis was obvious and the visit was but minutes.  He replied, ~what`s the cost of health~
  Untill the regime hammers Bigpharma, Ins companys, and high priced billing it remains a racket.
ONLY one example , please know there are many more.
   Price in the US   Price in Canada
Abilify 20 mg   $40.51 per pill   $4.33 per pill
Effient 10 mg   $12.59 per pill   $2.96 per pill
Humalog Insulin 100 units/ml   $12.47 per ml   $2.78 per ml
Pradaxa 150 mg   $5.64 per capsule   $1.78 per capsule
Spiriva 18 mcg   $10.98 per capsule   $2.34 per capsule
Xarelto 20 mg   $11.60 per pill   $3.06 per pill
            I have been in third world countrys that meds for diabetes  AND SOME LIFE SUSTAINING MEDS are free.
I am with hope this alone is mentioned, yes, by Trump, congress and Senate during the healthcare screening, if not I would be forced to draw the conclusion Bigpharma, but one of the healthcare factors, is sucking the peoples blood and money...A gun to the head, pay to stay alive.
  I voted Trump, though in all honesty if he doesn`t get the drift on health care *INDUSTRY* I`d sure like to know WHY.                                     Did I go off the map?
 

Online Jackson Holly

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2017, 06:02:28 PM »
^^^

... no chris, you're right on the map and
know exactly what I was trying to say above ...
the prices in US vs CANADA are for TWO FIRST WORLD
countries ... prices in 3rd World even more skewed
(or free as you say). Somebody has to pay for those
drugs and free services (just as in Obamacare)
GUESS WHO?
St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2017, 06:33:05 PM »
ONLY one example , please know there are many more.
   Price in the US   Price in Canada

apples and oranges ... the canUK's pay hefty personal taxes up front ... and they STILL pay for meds !...
So do YOU pay 42 percent? DO YOU WANT TO?


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadians-pay-42-of-income-in-tax-more-than-they-spend-on-food-shelter-clothing-combined

Canadians pay 42% of income in tax — more than they spend on food, shelter, clothing combined
Jennifer Hough | August 12, 2014 6:30 AM ET
More from Jennifer Hough

...
Last year, the average family earned $77,381 and paid $32,369 in total taxes, or 41.8%. Food, shelter and clothing ate up another 36.1%.
...
He points to health care as an area where he believes Canadians are shortchanged when compared with similar jurisdictions with universal health care.

It is the largest ... budget, but independent analyses have shown that Canada does not get same level of return for taxes on health care. We don’t get the same outcomes as others … we are faltering here and there is an opportunity for us to change the way programs work.”

The Fraser Institute report also points to “deferred taxation,” suggesting that even higher taxes could be on the horizon.

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline jofortruth

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2017, 06:53:35 PM »
Fact Check: It's a Lie That the GOP Healthcare Bill Abandons People With Pre-Existing Conditions

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2017/05/05/the-left-cant-stop-lying-about-republicans-healthcare-bill-n2322786
Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

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Online Jackson Holly

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2017, 07:37:56 PM »
... what ARE 'pre-existing' conditions?

From acne to pregnancy, here's every
'preexisting condition' that could get
you denied insurance under
Trump's new healthcare bill

Lydia Ramsey

The American Health Care Act, the GOP plan to overhaul the US healthcare system, passed in the House on Thursday. What counts as a preexisting condition that could get you denied coverage under the new plan?

A lot.

Quote
A preexisting condition is a term insurance companies used before the Affordable Care Act, the healthcare law better known as Obamacare, to classify certain diseases or health problems that could cause a person to be denied coverage or make their coverage more expensive than that of people considered healthy.

These preexisting conditions include:

AIDS/HIV, lupus, alcohol abuse/drug abuse with recent treatment, severe mental disorders such as bipolar disorder or an eating disorder, Alzheimer's/dementia, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia and other inflammatory joint disease, muscular dystrophy, cancer, severe obesity, cerebral palsy, organ transplant, congestive heart failure, paraplegia, coronary artery/heart disease, bypass surgery, paralysis, Crohn's disease/ulcerative colitis, Parkinson's disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease/emphysema, pending surgery or hospitalization, diabetes mellitus, pneumocystis pneumonia, epilepsy, pregnancy or expectant parent, hemophilia, sleep apnea, hepatitis C, stroke, kidney disease, renal failure, transsexualism.

Other conditions that could make it harder to purchase a health insurance plan, according to KFF:

Acne, allergies, anxiety, asthma, basal cell skin cancer (a type of skin cancer that doesn't tend to spread), depression, ear infections, fractures, high cholesterol, hypertension, incontinence, joint injuries, kidney stones, menstrual irregularities, migraine headaches, being overweight, restless leg syndrome, tonsillitis, urinary tract infections, varicose veins, and vertigo.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-counts-pre-existing-condition-ahca-trump-obamacare-2017-5
http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/pre-existing-conditions-and-medical-underwriting-in-the-individual-insurance-market-prior-to-the-aca/
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Offline Jacob Law

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2017, 11:08:15 PM »
All these discussions about this and that; but really what the heck do we have any government health care for?
Please just repel it period!!!!!!
No socialism!!!!
What do you under-stand?

Offline egypt

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2017, 11:36:09 PM »
Agreed Jacob Law.  Indeed, I've wondered for decades what insurance is actually  "for."  Obviously it is only for the insurance companies to gain money through monthly premiums without providing any benefit.

According to the list of pre-existing conditions which disqualfies most, what do people do?  Actually there are now generations of mentally-ill by government influence.  They won't qualify.   I guess insurance means give the insurance company money and the heck with them providing anything needed.

But, in reality, I like this idea of basically having no insurance.  It might mean that health insurance is thrown into the free market arena of healthy competition.   woot!  If this is true, it means we'll get good insurance, and good health care.

I've been sick of our 4th world ways for some time now.  A step into 3rd world status would be a repreive.  Get rid of government "health care" and government "insurance."  This would be the very best that could ever happen.

love, e

Offline jofortruth

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2017, 08:39:27 AM »
Exclusive—Tuesday Group Co-chair MacArthur on Lessons Learned from AHCA: Include
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/05/exclusive-tuesday-group-co-chair-macarthur-on-lessons-learned-from-ahca-its-important-that-we-include-all-members/

Quote
I think when the Democrats passed the Affordable Care Act I don’t think they thought about whether or not it will last, they thought that if it fails then the government will just take over and I think that was a perfectly acceptable outcome for them. It’s not an acceptable outcome to have another segment of health care taken over by the government. All you’ll have is bureaucrats deciding how much coverage you get, how many hospitals get paid, how much doctors get paid, you’ll have bureaucrats deciding how long you’ll have to recover from a knee surgery. That is not how America works. America thrives best when we have insurers competing with each other and offering the best products and putting pressure on insurers to lower costs when health care providers work with insurers to make sure costs are reined in. That’s when we’re going to have the best outcomes. The idea that we’re just going to have a single-payer system is not good for America.

---

Democrats alleged that this health care overhaul will eliminate protections for patients with pre-existing conditions. MacArthur explained how Democrats deceived the public on the issue of pre-existing conditions:

The other side has spent too much time speaking to people’s emotions and misstating the facts.   For example, with pre-existing conditions the bill could not be more explicit that insurers cannot discriminate, they can’t deny coverage, they can’t deny renewals, they can’t health rate someone who’s sick in the middle of being insured. If you get sick, your health rates don’t skyrocket. What it does say is that if you don’t maintain coverage for more than 63 days, you will pay an extra premium. However, states can request a waiver to look at those people, but they have to create a risk pool to ensure that the neediest amongst are not left behind. It balances to make sure people don’t skip out on buying health insurance when they get sick. That’s not fair to the rest of the American people.

That’s like not buying home owner’s insurance until your house floods. I think we struck the right balance and caring for the vulnerable and providing a significant amount of money for caring for the needy, we provided $138 billion dollars for high-risk pools. This is the individual and small group market which is 7 percent of the population, so you’re talking about within that 7 percent of people with pre-existing conditions, and now you’re talking about people within that market that don’t maintain health insurance coverage. That’s who the $138 billion high-risk pool applies to.  The idea that we haven’t invested in enough money is simply ludicrous, and it’s a deception that the mainstream media is complicit in and the left is pushing. That’s not the truth. If we don’t fix this, people with pre-existing conditions will have nothing. They’re insurance market will collapse.
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Online chris jones

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2017, 03:57:16 PM »
apples and oranges ... the canUK's pay hefty personal taxes up front ... and they STILL pay for meds !...
So do YOU pay 42 percent? DO YOU WANT TO?


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadians-pay-42-of-income-in-tax-more-than-they-spend-on-food-shelter-clothing-combined

Canadians pay 42% of income in tax — more than they spend on food, shelter, clothing combined
Jennifer Hough | August 12, 2014 6:30 AM ET
More from Jennifer Hough

...
Last year, the average family earned $77,381 and paid $32,369 in total taxes, or 41.8%. Food, shelter and clothing ate up another 36.1%.
...
He points to health care as an area where he believes Canadians are shortchanged when compared with similar jurisdictions with universal health care.

It is the largest ... budget, but independent analyses have shown that Canada does not get same level of return for taxes on health care. We don’t get the same outcomes as others … we are faltering here and there is an opportunity for us to change the way programs work.”

The Fraser Institute report also points to “deferred taxation,” suggesting that even higher taxes could be on the horizon.

               Bigpharma pricing, to begin with I`m not in favor of soicalism, nor am i in favor of pharma corps that bleed the lil people. It isn`t just Canada, but to make a tad of sense out of this meds can be purchased for you from Canada to the USA at their same price...What I`m saying is not directly the healthcare issue, it is big pharma, untill they are taken on the whole deal, in my opinion, is a sham for the med INDUSTRY.
( former hedge fund )Martin Shkreli, took on Daraprim, a 60-old drug used to treat a severe parasitic infection, and then raised its price from $13.50 per tablet to $750. He claims it was necessary to further expand the testing.  Yuh, thats a leap, but my point is there is no controll on the cost of meds....
  Even Trump has mentioned this<
Trump on drug prices: Pharma companies are 'getting away with ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../trump-on-drug-prices-pharma-companies-are-gettin...
Jan 11, 2017 - Trump on drug prices: Pharma companies are 'getting away with .... Trump takes aim at drug companies: 'I don't like what has happened'.
  To me, my opinion, this is relative to the health care, if Trump takes on big pharma he is in effect taking on the Medical INDUSTRY.. If you can purchases meds by mail from Canada at the same price Canadian`s are paying this directs me to beleive it is relevant we in the USA are being sucked dry by these rats.
  One step in the right direction in my opinion would be tackling Big Pharma first,(a drum roll) making people aware these freaks profit over 200 billion a year feeding on peoples misery.. Not socialism, the non existant controll of med pricing. If Trump goes after bigpharma the remaning issues will get the hint. IF,IF he doesn`t my opinion of him will go down a a tad.

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Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: * House vote to repeal replace Obamacare today. They have the votes!
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2017, 09:32:21 PM »
http://www.globalresearch.ca/trumpcare-social-devastation-denial-of-health-care-bonanza-for-insurance-companies/5588597

Trumpcare: Social Devastation, Denial of Health Care, Bonanza for Insurance Companies

By Stephen Lendman
Global Research
May 04, 2017



Late Wednesday, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R. CA) said “(w)e have enough votes” to pass Trumpcare on Thursday. “It’ll pass,” he added.

Earlier in the day, $8 billion was added to help cover individuals with pre-existing conditions – a meaningless amount providing too little help to matter.

The measure faces strong opposition from healthcare advocacy groups. American Medical Association president Dr. Andrew Gurman said

“(n)one of the legislative tweaks under consideration changes the serious harm to patients and the health care delivery system.”

The 11th hour changes “tinker at the edges without remedying the fundamental failing of the bill – that millions of Americans will lose their health insurance as a direct result of this proposal.”

It’s an abomination, leaving low-income Americans unable to get vital affordable coverage, ones with pre-existing conditions most vulnerable.

A new study by Harvard and MIT academics discussed subsidized healthcare insurance for low-income adults, based on the Massachusetts experience from 2009 – 2013. Its main results state:

“Subsidies Matter: Insurance take-up falls rapidly as (they) decline.” A $40 monthly premium increase causes about 25% of low-income individuals or households to drop coverage.

If monthly premiums increase up to $116, the “estimate(d) take-up falls…to less than half” of individuals covered (44%).”
    “Plans Suffer Adverse Selection: Enrollees induced by larger subsidies to purchase insurance are also lower-cost, consistent with adverse selection into insurance.”

    “But adverse selection cannot completely explain low take-up: even adjusting for adverse selection, enrollees’ own expected medical costs are three to four times larger than what they are willing to pay for insurance.”
“Uncompensated Care Matters:” Estimated uncompensated care for low-income individuals and households “accounts for nearly all of the gap between enrollee willingness to pay and costs.”

The “primary beneficiary of expanded insurance” is providers, not enrollees.

Low willingness or ability to pay accounts for “highly incomplete enrollment” in Obamacare marketplaces.

Modest premium increases “are a major deterrent to universal coverage” for low-income people, based on the Massachusetts experience.

Adverse selection helps explain why Obamacare insurance plans have higher than expected costs.
    “While reducing insurance subsidies can lower costs, significant subsidies are required to achieve near-universal coverage,” the study showed.
Eliminating subsidies or reducing them sharply would prevent low-income Americans from the ability to afford health insurance.

Price matters. When premiums rise, enrollee numbers fall. According to study co-author Nathaniel Hendren, Trumpcare as it now stands would make coverage unaffordable for households earning less than $75,000 annually.

The Obamacare/Massachusetts experience proves the only viable option is government-sponsored universal coverage for everyone.

[Continued...]

-------------------------------------

The "not perfect, but..." excuse just won't work this time.

There's no amount of figurative lipstick (read: slogans and platitudes) that can magically transform this bill into something other than what it really is.

"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0