We interrupt this neocon program to bring you the following voice of reason!

Author Topic: We interrupt this neocon program to bring you the following voice of reason!  (Read 1609 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Geolibertarian

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,110
  • 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.911truth.org
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2017/03/16/how-to-end-the-korean-war/

How To End the Korean War

You mean you didn’t know it never ended?

by Justin Raimondo
Antiwar.com
March 17, 2017

This question is always hard to answer because they don’t call it the Hermit Kingdom for nothing. Very little comes out of the notoriously reclusive – and repressive – Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, and not that much gets in. But occasionally there is a burst of activity that, like the eruption of a volcano, is hard to miss – the recent launching of four ballistic missiles being one of them.

The missiles landed in the Sea of Japan, about 190 miles off the Japanese coast, sending shockwaves throughout the region. Both Tokyo and Seoul protested, while the North Koreans characterized the action as a logical reaction to the perceived threat of imminent military action by the US and South Korea. Pyongyang’s fear is not unfounded.

The exercises, conducted jointly by US and South Korea and dubbed “Foal Eagle,” are a dress rehearsal for all-out war with the North. In addition to the USS Carl Vinson and a strike force of two guided missile destroyers and a cruiser, the US sent in a squadron of stealth fighter jets as well as B-52s and B-1Bs – these latter capable of carrying nuclear payloads. “Foal Eagle” is an annual exercise, but every year the amount of US firepower gets bigger – and in the context of rapidly rising tensions between Pyongyang and the rest of the world, this does nothing to ease the former’s well-known paranoia.

But it isn’t just paranoia that is motivating North Korean behavior: for the first time, there is open talk in US ruling circles of launching a preemptive strike against the regime of Kim Jong Un. As Time magazine puts it:

“Taking out North Korea’s two major nuclear sites with air strikes would be dangerous but probably not too difficult, U.S. officials say. The possibility of North Korean retaliation against Seoul, South Korea’s capital of 10 million and only 35 miles from North Korea, would be a complicating factor, they concede.”

Yes, the continued existence of 10 million South Koreas, not to mention the 30,000 or so American soldiers stationed on the peninsula, is indeed “a complicating factor.” That’s one way of putting it.

The reality is that Pyongyang has a crude but workable nuclear arsenal. This means that, in a sane world, military action is off the proverbial table. The problem is that we don’t live in such a world. And as crazy as Kim Jong Un may be, the talk of a preemptive strike proves the insanity is not limited to Pyongyang,

Right now, US policymakers must ask themselves two questions: how did we get here, and how do we get out?

We got here because the administration of George W. Bush quashed the beginnings of a political solution to the Korean conundrum.

Remember that the Korean War never officially ended: the fighting stopped when a truce was declared. A peace treaty was never signed: officially, we and our South Korean allies are still at war with Pyongyang. The demilitarized zone (DMZ) separating the two Koreas has been described as the most dangerous place in the world, and there have been a number of shooting incidents over the years, rising and falling as tensions between the two Koreas waxed and waned.

Yet there was a moment when the tensions were at a low point, and the possibility of a political solution was raised: this was the result of the so-called “Sunshine Policy” initiated by South Korean President Kim Dae Jung. The goal: reunification of the Koreas, a project both the North and the South have officially endorsed for many years. The Koreans are a fiercely nationalistic people, and the halving of the nation has been a painful affair. Then North Korean leader Kim Jong Il (Kim Jong Un’s father) agreed to meet the South Korean President at a three-day summit, at the end of which they signed a nonaggression pact and agreed to pursue the path of reunification.

This made sense from the North Korean perspective: the Communist state was strangling on its own repression, famine was sweeping the land, the economy was tanking, and people were literally eating the bark off the trees. The infusion of South Korean investment that followed the summit gave them a lifeline, and tens of thousands of South Koreans visited the North: factories were set up in the North that employed thousands of North Korean workers. Slowly but surely the Hermit Kingdom was letting down its defenses and opening up to the world.

And then came George W. Bush, who received the South Korean President in Washington in March of 2001 and promptly threw shade on the Sunshine policy. As the late Mary McGrory put it:

“Bush, as he was eager to demonstrate, was not a fan. Kim’s sin? He was instituting a sunshine policy with the North, ending a half-century of estrangement. Bush, who looked upon North Korea as the most potent argument for his obsession to build a national missile defense, saw Kim, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, as nothing but trouble. He sent him home humiliated and empty-handed.”

The North Koreans pulled back, and announced a military buildup. Bush upped the ante with his “axis of evil speech,” naming Pyongyang as one of the spokes on the wheel of wickedness. The North Koreans responded that this sounded to them like an outright “declaration of war,” a not unreasonable interpretation of Bush’s remarks.

Just to make sure he had crushed the last hope of a political solution, Bush visited South Korea in 2002, where he paid a visit to the DMZ:

“Standing atop a sandbag bunker and protected by bulletproof glass, US President George W. Bush peered through binoculars at North Korea on Wednesday and bluntly called it ‘evil.’

“… Among the things Bush could see were North Korean signs written in large, white Korean characters with slogans such as: ‘Anti-America’ and ‘Our General is the best"’ – a reference to North Korean leader Kim Jong-il.

“Bush spent about 10 minutes atop the bunker and then he and Secretary of State Colin Powell sat down to a lunch of cold cuts, potato chips, fruit and cookies with about a dozen US soldiers who help man the post 24 hours a day.

“Asked what he thought when he looked out over the North, Bush said: ‘We’re ready.’”


Ready, that is, for war. So much for the Sunshine policy.

Yet the US and the North Koreans were still bound by an agreement, reached under the Clilnton administration, by which the latter would refrain from building nukes as long as shipments of oil and the lifting of sanctions was permitted. Yet this agreement – initiated by former President Jimmy Carter and signed by Pyongyang in 1994 – was nixed by Washington’s sudden announcement that the North Koreans had violated it, and that therefore the deal was off.

But did the North Koreans really violate the agreement? Selig Harrison, writing in Foreign Affairs, didn’t think so:

“Much has been written about the North Korean nuclear danger, but one crucial issue has been ignored: just how much credible evidence is there to back up Washington’s uranium accusation? Although it is now widely recognized that the Bush administration misrepresented and distorted the intelligence data it used to justify the invasion of Iraq, most observers have accepted at face value the assessments the administration has used to reverse the previously established US policy toward North Korea.

“But what if those assessments were exaggerated and blurred the important distinction between weapons-grade uranium enrichment (which would clearly violate the 1994 Agreed Framework) and lower levels of enrichment (which were technically forbidden by the 1994 accord but are permitted by the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty [NPT] and do not produce uranium suitable for nuclear weapons)?

“A review of the available evidence suggests that this is just what happened. Relying on sketchy data, the Bush administration presented a worst-case scenario as an incontrovertible truth and distorted its intelligence on North Korea (much as it did on Iraq), seriously exaggerating the danger that Pyongyang is secretly making uranium-based nuclear weapons. This failure to distinguish between civilian and military uranium-enrichment capabilities has greatly complicated what would, in any case, have been difficult negotiations to end all existing North Korean nuclear weapons programs and to prevent any future efforts through rigorous inspection.”


As Donald Trump said of Bush’s “evidence” for Iraq’s “weapons of mass destruction”:  “They lied, they said there were weapons of mass destruction. There were none and they knew that there were none.”

Here is another mess the neocon-dominated administration of George W. Bush has left us, which Trump is now supposed to clean up. But he can’t do it if he reenacts Bush’s belligerent bone-headedness. The author of The Art of the Deal has got to make a deal – or face the prospect of a nuclear catastrophe on the Korean peninsula and perhaps beyond.

[Continued...]
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Jackson Holly

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,659
  • It's the TV, stupid!
    • JACKSON HOLLY'S OLD HOME PLACE
^^^

... thanks Geo, good article. One would hope that
a reconciliation of N & S Korea is possible sometime
in the near term, but we shouldn't hold our breath ...
and I don't know if withdrawing forces would help
matters right now. Let's see what Trump/Tillerson
have in mind ... perhaps just tough talk to get more
action from China. But for sure, Kim is a dangerous
nutcase who should probably watch his back.
St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline Satyagraha

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,939
Faking It: How the Media Manipulates the World into War
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 10:08:47 PM »
Faking It: How the Media Manipulates the World into War
http://www.globalresearch.ca/faking-it-how-the-media-manipulates-the-world-into-war/5336838

By James Corbett

This GRTV production by James Corbett was first released in January 2012 at the height of Obama’s first term in office.

In the light of the recent media disinformation campaign in relation to Syria, not to mention the ‘fake news’ and “Russia hacking” campaign directed against the independent-alternative media, we bring this carefully researched video-documentary report to the attention of GR readers.

M. Ch. Global Research, March 16, 2017


As the drums of war begin to beat once again in Iran, Syria, the South China Sea, and other potential hotspots and flashpoints around the globe, concerned citizens are asking how a world so sick of bloodshed and a population so tired of conflict could be led to this spot once again.

To understand this seeming paradox, we must first understand the centuries-long history of how media has been used to whip the nation into wartime frenzy, dehumanize the supposed enemies, and even to manipulate the public into believing in causes for war that, decades later, were admitted to be completely fictitious.

As the US and Iranian governments escalate tensions in the already volatile Straits of Hormuz, and China and Russia begin openly questioning Washington’s interference in their internal politics, the world remains on a knife-edge of military tension. Far from being a dispassionate observer of these developments, however, the media has in fact been central to increasing those tensions and preparing the public to expect a military confrontation. But as the online media rises to displace the traditional forms by which the public forms its understanding of the world, many are now beginning to see first hand how the media lies the public into war.…

(VIDEO)

The term “yellow journalism” was coined to describe the type of sensationalistic, scandal-driven, and often erroneous style of reporting popularized by newspapers like William Randolph Hearst’s New York Journal. In one of the most egregious examples of this phenomenon, Hearst’s papers widely trumpeted the sinking of the Maine as the work of the Spanish. Whipped into an anti-Spanish frenzy by a daily torrent of stories depicting Spanish forces’ alleged torture and rape of Cubans, and pushed over the edge by the Maine incident, the public welcomed the beginning of the US-Spanish war. Although it is now widely believed that the explosion on the Maine was due to a fire in one of its coal bunkers, the initial lurid reports of Spanish involvement stuck and the nation was led into war.

In many ways, the phrase infamously attributed to Hearst in reply to his illustrator “You furnish the pictures and I’ll furnish the war,” apocryphal as the story may be, nevertheless perfectly encodes the method by which the public would be led to war time and again through the decades.

The US was drawn into World War I by the sinking of the Lusitania, a British ocean liner carrying American passengers that was torpedoed by German U-boats off the coast of Ireland, killing over 1,000 of its passengers. What the public was not informed about at the time, of course, was that just one week before the incident, then-First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill had written to the President of the Board of Trade that it was “most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in the hopes especially of embroiling the United States with Germany.” Nor did reports of the attack announce that the ship was carrying rifle ammunition and other military supplies. Instead, reports once again emphasized that the attack was an out-of-the-blue strike by a maniacal enemy, and the public was led into the war.

The US involvement in World War II was likewise the result of deliberate disinformation. Although the Honolulu Advertiser had even predicted the attack on Pearl Harbor days in advance, the Japanese Naval codes had already been deciphered by that time, and that even Henry Stimson, the US Secretary of War, had noted in his diary the week before that he had discussed in a meeting with Roosevelt “how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves,” the public were still led to believe that the Pearl Harbor attack had been completely unforeseen. Just last month, a newly-declassified memo emerged showing that FDR had been warned of an impending Japanese attack on Hawaii just three days before the events at Pearl Harbor, yet the history books still portray Pearl Harbor as an example of a surprise attack.

In August 1964, the public was told that the North Vietnamese had attacked a US Destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin on two separate occasions. The attacks were portrayed as a clear example of “communist aggression” and a resolution was soon passed in Congress authorizing President Johnson to begin deploying US forces in Vietnam. In 2005, an internal NSA study was released concluding that the second attack in fact never took place. In effect, 60000 American servicemen and as many as three million Vietnamese, let alone as many as 500,000 Cambodians and Laotians, lost their lives because of an incident that did not occur anywhere but in the imagination of the Johnson administration and the pages of the American media.

In 1991, the world was introduced to the emotional story of Nayirah, a Kuwaiti girl who testified about the atrocities committed by Iraqi forces in Kuwait.

What the world was never told was that the incident had in fact been the work of a public relations firm, Hill and Knowltown, and the girl had actually been the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador. Once again, the public was whipped into a frenzy of hatred for the Hussein regime, not for the documented atrocities that it had actually committed on segments of its own population with weapons supplied to them by the United States itself, but on the basis of an imaginary story told to the public via their televisions, orchestrated by a pr firm.

In the lead-up to the war on Iraq, the American media infamously took the lead in framing the debate about the Iraqi government’s weapons of mass destruction NOT as a question of whether or not they even existed, but as a question of where they had been hidden and what should be done to disarm them. The New York Times led the way with Judith Miller‘s now infamous reporting on the Iraqi WMD story, now known to have been based on false information from untrustworthy sources, but the rest of the media fell into line with the NBC Nightly News asking “what precise threat Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction pose to America”, and Time debating whether Hussein was “making a good-faith effort to disarm Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.” Reports about chemical weapons stashes were reported on before they were confirmed, although headlines boldly asserted their existence as indisputable fact. We now know that in fact the stockpiles did not exist, and the administration premeditatedly lied the country into yet another war, but the most intense opposition the Bush administration ever received over this documented war crime was some polite correction on the Sunday political talk show circuit.

Remarkably, the public at large has seemingly learned nothing from all of these documented historical manipulations. If anything, the media has become even bolder in its attempts to manipulate the public’s perceptions, perhaps emboldened by the fact that so few in the audience seem willing to question the picture that is being painted for them on the evening news.

Later that year, CNN aired footage of a bombed out Tskhinvali in South Ossetia, falsely labeling it as footage of Gori, which they said had been attacked by the Russians.

In 2009, the BBC showed a cropped image of a rally in Iran which they claimed was a crowd of protesters who assembled to show their opposition to the Iranian government. An uncropped version of the same photograph displayed on the LA Times’ website, however, revealed that the photo in fact came from a rally in support of Ahmedinejad.

In August of 2011, the BBC ran footage of what they claimed was a celebration in Tripoli’s Green Square. When sharp-eyed viewers noticed that the flags in the footage were in fact Indian flags, the BBC was forced to admit that they had “accidentally” broadcast footage from India instead of Tripoli.

Also that month, CNN reported on a story from the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights claiming that eight infants in incubators had died in a hospital in Hama when Syrian authorities cut off power in the area. Some news sites evencarried pictures of the infants. The images were later admitted to have been taken in Egypt and no evidence has ever emerged to back up the accusations.

As breathtaking as all of these lies, manipulations and so-called “mistakes” are, they in and of themselves don’t represent the only functions of the media for the war machine. Now, the US government is taking the lead in becoming more and more directly involved with the shaping of the media message on war propaganda, and the general public is becoming even more ensnared in a false picture of the world through the Pentagon’s own lens.

In 2005, the Bush White House admitted to producing videos that were designed to look like news reports from legitimate independent journalists, and then feeding those reports to media outlets as prepackaged material ready to air on the evening news. When the Government Accountability Office ruled that these fake news reports in fact constituted illegal covert propaganda, the White House simply issued a memo declaring the practice to be legal.

In April 2008, the New York Times revealed a secret US Department of Defense program that was launched in 2002 and involved using retired military officers to implant Pentagon talking points in the media. The officers were presented as “independent analysts” on talk shows and news programs, although they had been specially briefed beforehand by the Pentagon. In December of 2011, the DoD’s own Inspector General released a report concluding that the program was in perfect compliance with government policies and regulations.

Earlier this year, it was revealed the the US government had contracted with HBGary Federal to develop software that create fake social media accounts in order to steer public opinion and promote propaganda on popular websites. The federal contract for the software sourced back to the MacDill Air Force Base in Florida.

As the vehicle through which information from the outside world is captured, sorted, edited and transmitted into our homes, the mass media has the huge responsibility of shaping and informing our understanding of events to which we don’t have first-hand access. This is an awesome responsibility in even the most ideal conditions, with diligent reporters guided by trustworthy editors doing their level best to report the most important news in the most straightforward way.

But in a media landscape where a handful of companies own virtually all of the print, radio and television media in each nation, the only recourse the public has is to turn away from the mainstream media altogether. And that is precisely what is happening.

As study after study and report after report has shown, the death of the old media has accelerated in recent years, with more and more people abandoning newspapers and now even television as their main source of news. Instead, the public is increasingly turning toward online sources for their news and information, something that is necessarily worrying for the war machine itself, a system that can only truly flourish when the propaganda arm is held under monopolistic control.

But as citizens turn away from the New York Times and toward independent websites, many run and maintained by citizen journalists and amateur editors, the system that has consolidated its control over the minds of the public for generations seems to finally be showing signs that it may not be invincible.

Surely this is not to say that online media is impervious to the defects that have made the traditional media so unreliable. Quite the contrary. But the difference is that online, there is still for the time being relative freedom of choice at the individual level. While internet freedom exists, individual readers and viewers don’t have to take the word of any website or pundit or commentator on any issue. They can check the source documentation themselves, except, perhaps not coincidentally, on the websites of the traditional media bastions, which tend not to link source material and documentation in their articles.

Hence the SOPA Act, Protect IP, the US government’s attempts to seize websites at the domain name level, and all of the other concerted attacks we have seen on internet freedoms in recent years.

Because ultimately, an informed and engaged public is far less likely to go along with wars waged for power and profit. And as the public becomes better informed about the very issues that the media has tried to lie to them about for so long, they realize that the answer to all of the mainstream media’s war cheerleading and blatant manipulation is perhaps simpler than we ever suspected: All we have to do is turn them off.

And  the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, 
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,  ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25:40

Offline Jackson Holly

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,659
  • It's the TV, stupid!
    • JACKSON HOLLY'S OLD HOME PLACE


... who was it that said wars are a
chemical reaction and require a catalyst.
St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline Geolibertarian

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,110
  • 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.911truth.org
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2017/04/27/phony-hysterics-over-north-korea/

Phony Hysterics Over North Korea

Threat inflation is the name of the game

by Justin Raimondo
Antiwar.com
April 28, 2017

A lot of my job as editorial director of Antiwar.com is cutting through the veil of obfuscation with which the War Party masks its ill intentions. But sometimes you don’t even have to read between the lines to see what our conniving rulers are up to. Such is the case with the current war scare around North Korea.

President Trump is playing this for all it’s worth, summoning the Senate to a special conclave at the White House to inform them of the supposedly dire threat. This ostentatious display was preceded by a hearing before the House Armed Services Committee at which Admiral Harry Harris, in charge of the US Pacific Command, sounded the alarm:

“Kim Jong-Un is clearly in a position to threaten Hawaii today, in my opinion. I have suggested that we consider putting interceptors in Hawaii that . . . defend (it) directly, and that we look at a defensive Hawaii radar.”

The idea that the North Korean despot is going to pull off another Pearl Harbor is so off the wall that one has to wonder what the Admiral is smoking. To begin with, the North Koreans don’t have the technical capacity to reach Hawaii: their most recent test, reportedly of a medium range ballistic missile, failed on launch. Another failure of a medium range missile test occurred earlier in the month, when the rocket went haywire in the skies and exploded in a fiery crash in the sea. And in March, they chalked up two failures, when they fired a flurry of test missiles, only four of which landed 160 miles off the coast of Japan, and another of a medium range missile that “exploded within seconds of launch.”

They didn’t do much better in 2016, with a whole string of failures that limn their infamous 2006 “nuclear” test – which was either a fizzle or a fake.

While Kim Jong-un’s propaganda machine either makes ridiculously inflated claims of its military prowess, or else keeps silent when their missiles explode, the US propaganda machine is working overtime to pump up the alleged threat from Pyongyang. Although there is no evidence to support the claim that these North Korean failures were the result of US sabotage, there’s been much speculation to this effect – a contention that simultaneously inflates both the danger posed by Kim Jong-un’s regime and the supposed near omnipotence of American power.

It’s all hype. North Korea cannot even feed its own people. Despite the seriocomic pretensions of its propagandists, the country’s level of technological development is primitive, at best. A photo of Kim Jong-un sitting in front of a computer that looks like something out of the 1950s is hardly a testament to the wonders of North Korean technology.

Not that the very real possibility of war with North Korea is a laughing matter, but the reality is that the threat is not to the United States. Kim Jong-un can’t hit Hawaii, or the Pacific coast of the United States: however, he can hit Seoul. North Korean artillery are thirty miles away from that city of several million, and within six minutes of the commencement of hostilities the South Korean capital would be engulfed in a sea of fire.

American officials, including the President, keep reiterating that “all options are on the table,” but that’s nonsense: millions would die in the event of war, including most of the 38,000 US troops we have stationed on the Korean peninsula. Trump once proposed withdrawing these sitting ducks, but the outcry from the War Party was so great that he has completely reversed his position.

[Continued...]
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Geolibertarian

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,110
  • 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.911truth.org
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2017/07/04/anti-interventionist-voters-elected-trump/

Anti-Interventionist Voters Elected Trump

Yet he seems not to know it

by Justin Raimondo
Antiwar.com
July 05, 2017

How did Donald Trump defy all the pollsters, the pundits, and the Twitterverse “experts” and take the White House? According to the Democrats, it was all a Russian plot – Kremlin-directed Twitter “bots” spread “misinformation” and “fake news,” Russian hackers stole the DNC’s emails, and this deprived Hillary Clinton of her rightful place as President of these United States. If we listen to the Bernie Sanders wing of the party, it was all because their man Bernie failed to win the nomination due to corporate influence and the flawed election strategy of the Clinton campaign. And the Republicans tell us it was because – well, they don’t have any coherent theory, but, hey, they’ll take it regardless of why or how it happened.

What hasn’t emerged from the shock and horror of the elites, however, is a reasonably convincing explanation for the Trump victory: the storied “deplorables,” as Mrs. Clinton described them, rose up in rebellion against the coastal elites and delivered them a blow from which they are still reeling. Disdained, forgotten, and left behind, these rural not-college-educated near-the-poverty-line voters, who had traditionally voted Democratic, deserted the party – but why?

No real explanation has been forthcoming. Hillary tells us it was due, in part, to “sexism,” and the rest was a dark conspiracy by Vladimir Putin and James Comey. More objective observers attribute the switch to the relentless emphasis by the Democrats on identity politics, which seems convincing until one examines the actual statistics down to the county level in those key states – Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania – that gave the party of Trump the keys to the White House.

Francis Shen, a professor of law at the University of Minnesota, and Douglas Kriner, who teaches political science at Boston University, have done just that, and their conclusion is stunning – and vitally important to those of us who want to understand what the current relation of political forces means for the anti-interventionist movement. They write:

[Continued...]
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Stan

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,510
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2017/07/04/anti-interventionist-voters-elected-trump/

Anti-Interventionist Voters Elected Trump

Yet he seems not to know it

Thanks. Interesting article.

Speaking of neocon interventionism, another thing that's been bothering me over the last month or so is this claim that Assad agreed to step down if western powers and their allies just agreed to stop helping crazed jihadists butcher the Syrian people. Does anyone have a source on that? It's almost not worth getting into the complete immorality and illegitimacy of such a deal before knowing if it even existed to start with.

On the specific subject of North Korea, I've grown more conflicted on this over the last couple of years (as someone who's always been anti-war). The ruling class of that country will likely continue to terrorise their people if a policy of containment is kept, and any military option will almost certainly lead to horrific levels of death. I'm almost ambivalent because both choices are so bad, but in the case of their being no good option I'll always tend to towards 'do no harm'.

Offline chris jones

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,477
Thanks. Interesting article.

Speaking of neocon interventionism, another thing that's been bothering me over the last month or so is this claim that Assad agreed to step down if western powers and their allies just agreed to stop helping crazed jihadists butcher the Syrian people. Does anyone have a source on that? It's almost not worth getting into the complete immorality and illegitimacy of such a deal before knowing if it even existed to start with.

On the specific subject of North Korea, I've grown more conflicted on this over the last couple of years (as someone who's always been anti-war). The ruling class of that country will likely continue to terrorise their people if a policy of containment is kept, and any military option will almost certainly lead to horrific levels of death. I'm almost ambivalent because both choices are so bad, but in the case of their being no good option I'll always tend to towards 'do no harm'.
  Stan,
   I can`t source this, I tried but to no avail. Around a year past I had read a statment Assad would step down in a heartbeat to end the abomination in his country if his loyalist`s were included in a peacefull transisition.
BUT ..I can back up ,Assad`s lifes goal was to become an accomplished eye surgeon.
Bashar al-Assad - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad
Bashar Hafez al-Assad is the 19th and current President of Syria, holding the office since 17 .... Edmund Schulenburg, who trained Assad at the Western Eye Hospital, described him in 2013 as "a sensitive young man who was incredibly polite ...
‎Asma al-Assad · ‎Hafez al-Assad · ‎Alawites · ‎Bassel al-Assad
'Gentle and weak': UK trainee eye surgeon student who became ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Gentle-weak-UK-trainee-eye-surgeon-student-Syrian-tyrant.h...
Aug 31, 2013 - The eye surgeon who trained Bashar Assad in London has ... by his father and former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad (centre) after his older ...
Bashar al-Assad trained as a doctor. How did he become a mass ...
https://www.theguardian.com › Opinion › Bashar al-Assad

    Bearing this in mind there was more going on in Syria than our MSM would admit to or our ADM, nations had been invaded, bombed, occupied, mercenary`s in the numbers, finatical recruits, and of course tribal finatics who wanted a place of power. I would care much more to see exposed the backers of the rebels, ISIS, or whatever name suits them.
General Wesley exposed the intent of the DOD maping out a takedown of 7 M.E. nations. Imagine a great number of your neighboring countries being invaded, it may become evident yours may happen to be on the list, (Arab Spring as if indicating flowers blossoming.) I am not saying the initial Syrian military reaction was called for, but the question as to why rebels (so called) became so powerfull is the most basic of issues.
 As to wars> Sociopaths, Hillary is a fine example, consider Lybia. This was her crowning moment of glory, I`m sure she cackeld off a laugh when Quadiffi was sodomized with a knife, I`ll take bet she keeps this video for home entertaiment.
  I have been in war, I`m anti war...To be strait up, I agree with a strong defense without question, but I am totaly against war profiteers and powermongering pyscos leading/deceiving us into them. I also agree with an oath taken to protect against foreign or domestic enemy`s.  That said, any member of our political body, gov agency or elitists who knowingly allowed the M.E. abomination to take place should be in chains.*Domestic enemies.
 Trump recently compared the Russian involment in the election to the lie concering WMD`s in Iraq. The death and mutilation of innocents for power,money, etc is a perversion of everything this nation was based upon.
  I beleive your post motivated me to rant.
 


Offline Geolibertarian

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,110
  • 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.911truth.org
Remember all the lies we were told (and are still being told) about 9/11?



Remember all the lies we were told during the pre-war hysteria leading up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq?

"What are we supposed to do -- wait for Iraq to attack us with WMDs? [blah blah blah]"

If the plutocrats and robber barons who own both the military-industrial complex and the national "news" media were willing to lie to us about those two things -- and, as a direct consequence, get hundreds of thousands of people (including thousands of U.S. soldiers) killed -- then why should any rational human being blindly assume that they aren't lying to us about everything else?

Has history not taught us anything?

Apparently not.

"I got this real moron thing I do, it's called thinking. And I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions. I don't just roll over when I'm told to. Sad to say, most Americans just roll over on command. Not me. I have certain rules I live by. My first rule: I don't believe anything the government tells me. Nothing! Zero!" -- George Carlin
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline chris jones

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,477
Remember all the lies we were told (and are still being told) about 9/11?



Remember all the lies we were told during the pre-war hysteria leading up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq?

"What are we supposed to do -- wait for Iraq to attack us with WMDs? [blah blah blah]"

If the plutocrats and robber barons who own both the military-industrial complex and the national "news" media were willing to lie to us about those two things -- and, as a direct consequence, get hundreds of thousands of people (including thousands of U.S. soldiers) killed -- then why should any rational human being blindly assume that they aren't lying to us about everything else?

Has history not taught us anything?

Apparently not.

"I got this real moron thing I do, it's called thinking. And I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions. I don't just roll over when I'm told to. Sad to say, most Americans just roll over on command. Not me. I have certain rules I live by. My first rule: I don't believe anything the government tells me. Nothing! Zero!" -- George Carlin
             Geo, I was on a ship when this happened, some of us were in a smoke shack watching this, I spoke out of turn,, so to say...~ that MF Bush pulled this of,. The reaction to my words were not pleasant, i ranted a tad, telling the crew there was no way NORAD or the FAA wouldn let this shit happen... Beacause of the backlash not one guy got my drift..This crew was a mixed bag of around 30 different nations, one guy was a Russian high tech, he later called me asside and told me he was sorry he didn`t back me up and agreed it had to have been known inside, others after some time did the same.
 The vast majority of citizens fell for the Bin Laden HS and we know the results.  Human nature coupled with willfull ignorence.  Folks like us on this post saw through the bullsh**t, we were labled tin hatters, unpatriotic, and much more despite the evidence this was basically an inside job...  All this asside, I continue to this day demoralized as to the caring/humane consideration/free thinking of many of our GP who simply roll with the tide, unwilling to question, it is so much easier for them to go along. The lie was preferable, though in truth I have a feeling deep down many know the truth..The eliist were salivating, WAR, invade a nation, then another and on and on.. How easy it was for them to manipulate the masses.

Offline Stan

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,510
    Bearing this in mind there was more going on in Syria than our MSM would admit to or our ADM, nations had been invaded, bombed, occupied, mercenary`s in the numbers, finatical recruits, and of course tribal finatics who wanted a place of power. I would care much more to see exposed the backers of the rebels, ISIS, or whatever name suits them.
General Wesley exposed the intent of the DOD maping out a takedown of 7 M.E. nations. Imagine a great number of your neighboring countries being invaded, it may become evident yours may happen to be on the list, (Arab Spring as if indicating flowers blossoming.) I am not saying the initial Syrian military reaction was called for, but the question as to why rebels (so called) became so powerfull is the most basic of issues.
 As to wars> Sociopaths, Hillary is a fine example, consider Lybia. This was her crowning moment of glory, I`m sure she cackeld off a laugh when Quadiffi was sodomized with a knife, I`ll take bet she keeps this video for home entertaiment.
  I have been in war, I`m anti war...To be strait up, I agree with a strong defense without question, but I am totaly against war profiteers and powermongering pyscos leading/deceiving us into them. I also agree with an oath taken to protect against foreign or domestic enemy`s.  That said, any member of our political body, gov agency or elitists who knowingly allowed the M.E. abomination to take place should be in chains.*Domestic enemies.
 Trump recently compared the Russian involment in the election to the lie concering WMD`s in Iraq. The death and mutilation of innocents for power,money, etc is a perversion of everything this nation was based upon.
  I beleive your post motivated me to rant.

I wouldn't endorse a strongman ruler either but you make a good a point about the initial protests. I tend to give many of them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they were duped by the usual suspects, but you do wonder if the Syrian government had hard info on a foreign coup that was going on. It's not like the Libyan jihadists made a secret of their plan to take down Syria so it's not very surprising that the government would crack down Middle east style on any signs of insurrection.

It also turns out that the super secret source on that Assad deal was from the Pentagon, who we all love and trust with our very lives. It needs to stop being repeated until it's backed up. And yes, I'm subtweeting Alex.

Offline Geolibertarian

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,110
  • 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.911truth.org
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCE42mDMa8M (CAUTION: Everything You Hear About North Korea, War, Nukes and Kim Jong-un Are Neocon Lies)
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline chris jones

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCE42mDMa8M (CAUTION: Everything You Hear About North Korea, War, Nukes and Kim Jong-un Are Neocon Lies)
            I have been searching for the bottom line to this game and can`t find it.. We all know Iraq was an FF, no WMD`s....Yet a few 100 thousand died, our soldiers, and city`s in the rubble, destroyed, a nation eradicated and vacuum swarmed by profiteers.
            Here we have Kim running his mouth so they say, this caught my interest and I hunted for answers, I haven`t found them, the truth is evasive. On another post, I brought out some facts concerning Clinton and his arrangement with NK. I discovered he actually sponsored this, the billions- money, oil and reactor agreement.gave me a kick start, under the guise of sucking up to NK in order for them to become part of the global alliance.
            To end this without a long rant, please don`t underestimate the global cabal, in the long run the USA and others are number 1 on the list. The Roman empire rotted from the inside(example), that said I am with hope Trump removes the cancer that has infested the USA domestically. Trump knows this, may he keep it in the foremost of his mind.