Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria

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Offline poncho

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Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« on: November 24, 2015, 05:37:26 AM »
Holy crap this is bad.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane-near-border-syria-n468671

ISTANBUL — Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border after it violated Turkish airspace on Tuesday, officials said.

The Russian jet was warned 10 times in five minutes before being shot down, according to the Turkish air force.

Syrian fighters on the ground and Turkish sources told NBC News that the Russian jet's pilots ejected and landed in an area north of Latakia, Syria, that is controlled by rebels fighting to topple President Bashar Assad. Russia has an air base in Latakia which is used to launch bombing raids targeting Assad's foes — including ISIS.





 
 Image: A Sukhoi Su-24 fighter jet

A file photo of a Su-24 fighter jet taking off from the Hmeymim air base near Latakia, Syria. Russia's Defence Ministry / Reuters

Footage from Turkish Haberturk TV showed a warplane going down in flames in a woodland area with a long plume of smoke trailing behind it.

Citing the Kremlin's Defense Ministry, Russian state-run RIA Novosti news agency also reported that a Su-24 had been downed in Turkey near the border with Syria, but said it had been shot down by ground fire. The plane was flying above Syrian territory and not Turkey, according to that report.

The head of the Turkish military briefed President Tayyip Erdogan on the incident, while Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu ordered consultations with NATO, the United Nations and related countries, Reuters reported citing their respective offices.

Russia's Defense Ministry was not immediately available for comment.





According to Russia's Defense Ministry, there are 69 warplanes based in Latakia. Russian planes have run thousands of bombing raids in Syria since Sept. 30 when the Kremlin announced it would start targeting ISIS.

However, U.S. officials say many of the strikes appear to be hitting areas where ISIS doesn't have a presence.

Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered his air force to step-up bombings after a passenger plane crashed in Egypt's Sinai on Oct. 31, killing all 224 on board. On Thursday, ISIS claimed it brought down the Metrojet plane with an improvised bomb.

Offline poncho

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 05:58:37 AM »
I don't think Russia will strike Turkey back at least with conventional warfare.  For if they did, WWIII is about to start, with Turkey being part of NATO.

But there probably will be some kind of repercussions.  Some kind of economic attack e.g. Oil cutoff or trade embargo is probably likely.

Then there is the possibility that the Russians down play this.  It was an accident.  Mechanical problem.  The Syrian Rebels did it.
I have a suspicion that this is the most likely scenario.

Offline poncho

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 06:04:44 AM »
It sounds like one of the two pilots has been captured by some other force.  The other pilot is still free with Russian helicopters trying to pick him up.

Offline Al Bundy

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 06:25:06 AM »
I as a "conspiracy theorist" think "Sultan" Erdogan approved or maybe ordered from NATO to overthrow the Russian plane.

Offline poncho

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 06:45:19 AM »
Here is a live feed from Russia Today:

https://www.rt.com/on-air/

It looks like a group of Syrian Rebels killed one of the pilots on the ground.
This is going to lead to a major escalation by Russia against the Rebels.

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 07:00:14 AM »


Turkey is trigger-happy, anxious to hurt Russia... because
Turkey is definitely on the ISIS/Crazy muslim side in
this struggle. I wonder if NATO would actually back
TURKEY in a shooting war w/RUSSIA ... or if they would
kick them out of NATO, the best course. I believe we will
face similar situations with other muslim countries
as this war unfolds.
St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline regmeok

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 08:11:39 AM »
very hostile act. the usual practice is to intecept and fly nearby until the unit will leave ur airspace. and Russia said the plane was 1km away from siria-turkey boundary

can the reason  be connected with oil-gas routes ? with Iran coming back? with any OPEС actions?

"Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu ordered consultations with NATO, the United Nations and related countries, Reuters reported citing their respective offices. " that is the 'funniest' part. as if Russia shot down a plane

Offline Al Bundy

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 08:16:08 AM »
Russia’s president Vladimir Putin has warned Turkey of ‘serious consequences’ after a Russia fighter jet was shot down close to Turkey’s border with Syria. Putin described the incident as a “stab in the back” and accused Turkey of siding with Islamic State militants in Syria.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updateshttp://

Offline Al Bundy

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 08:29:33 AM »


BBC supports Turkish version ?

Offline poncho

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 08:44:19 AM »


BBC supports Turkish version ?

Looking at the maps and the 'Supposed' Turkish side of things, lead me to thinking... that that version is quite dodgy.

The Russian Jet if it had violated the air space, would have been over it for seconds, minutes in the worst case. 
Not the 5+ minutes with all those warnings.

It seems more likely, that if the pilots knew they were in danger, would have taken evasive action and employed counter measures. 
So... did they spontaneously fire upon the Russian jet?  That seems so much more plausible.  The Russian pilots wouldn't have been prepared for an attack, and that would have caught them by total surprise.

Offline poncho

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 08:48:44 AM »
It is possible that Russia does some kind of punitive attack back.

Any Turkish planes crossing into Syria, could become fair game.
They might even strike SAM sights or bases upon the border, citing dangerous situations detected by the pilots.  And the pilots acted in self defense.
I doubt NATO steps in if Russia does that.  It will just be very loud sabre rattling.

Would NATO even step in to fight Russia in case of a full on assault of Turkey anyway?  I hope we never find out.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 08:51:17 AM »
I as a "conspiracy theorist" think "Sultan" Erdogan approved or maybe ordered from NATO to overthrow the Russian plane.

  Yes. Remember that Obama was just in Turkey on November 16. He and his minions may have planned a provocation to tick off Putin. Obama has been check mated by Putin.  Obama doesn't like to be upstaged by Putin even though Obama and the US  have played the coward's role in Syria. The US government and Central bankers main goal is to get Assad and replace him with a puppet so the NWO can strip Syria of its assets.  Then they want war with Iran.  Turkey wants to annex part of Syria as their prize in this fiasco. Turkey is definitely allied with the US and their goal is 180 degrees opposite of the regime in Washington DC.  Putin wants to get rid of ISIS and Obama and NATO want to get rid of Assad.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 08:57:03 AM »
It is possible that Russia does some kind of punitive attack back.

Any Turkish planes crossing into Syria, could become fair game.
They might even strike SAM sights or bases upon the border, citing dangerous situations detected by the pilots.  And the pilots acted in self defense.
I doubt NATO steps in if Russia does that.  It will just be very loud sabre rattling.

Would NATO even step in to fight Russia in case of a full on assault of Turkey anyway?  I hope we never find out.

  Putin is smart. I would bet he tries to downplay this but he will issue warnings to Turkey. He knows that this could lead to a full scale war. At the moment he doesn't have enough troops in the region to fight a war. Let us hope that this situation will cool down.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline Al Bundy

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2015, 09:02:06 AM »
  Yes. Remember that Obama was just in Turkey on November 16. He and his minions may have planned a provocation to tick off Putin. Obama has been check mated by Putin.  Obama doesn't like to be upstaged by Putin even though Obama and the US  have played the coward's role in Syria. The US government and Central bankers main goal is to get Assad and replace him with a puppet so the NWO can strip Syria of its assets.  Then they want war with Iran.  Turkey wants to annex part of Syria as their prize in this fiasco. Turkey is definitely allied with the US and their goal is 180 degrees opposite of the regime in Washington DC.  Putin wants to get rid of ISIS and Obama and NATO want to get rid of Assad.

Bravo. Maybe President Obama authorized or ordering "Sultan" to make someone an incident against Russia as the pressure on Putin to accept the overthrow of President of Syria Assad with Obama's promise to Putin then will then all together move fight against ISIS.

Offline Effie Trinket

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2015, 09:46:35 AM »
Turkey is definitely allied with the US and their goal is 180 degrees opposite of the regime in Washington DC.
Typo?  Since Turkey is allied with the US, how can their goal be the opposite of Washington DC, which is the same as the US?  Nevermind the fact that Washington DC is 100% a puppet to what the CSIS and CFR want.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2015, 09:56:10 AM »
Typo?  Since Turkey is allied with the US, how can their goal be the opposite of Washington DC, which is the same as the US?  Nevermind the fact that Washington DC is 100% a puppet to what the CSIS and CFR want.


  Sorry.  Yes. I meant the USA and Turkey are 180 degrees  opposite of Russia. I am trying to communicate with my damn outdated iPhone.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline stray85

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2015, 09:56:52 AM »
Have any of you ever met a Russian?

They will strike back very hard...this will not go unanswered..especially after the pilots being murdered on the ground like that....

I remember a few years back when Chechen rebels filmed the executions of some Russian border guards...Russia struck back very bloody..vengefully..Russia on war mode is hell on earth. The video of this plane being shot down and the pilots being executed will awaken the sleeping bear...

Offline sipsipaway

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2015, 10:30:31 AM »

Online chris jones

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2015, 10:40:58 AM »
Bravo. Maybe President Obama authorized or ordering "Sultan" to make someone an incident against Russia as the pressure on Putin to accept the overthrow of President of Syria Assad with Obama's promise to Putin then will then all together move fight against ISIS.
  Yes. Remember that Obama was just in Turkey on November 16. He and his minions may have planned a provocation to tick off Putin. Obama has been check mated by Putin.  Obama doesn't like to be upstaged by Putin even though Obama and the US  have played the coward's role in Syria. The US government and Central bankers main goal is to get Assad and replace him with a puppet so the NWO can strip Syria of its assets.  Then they want war with Iran.  Turkey wants to annex part of Syria as their prize in this fiasco. Turkey is definitely allied with the US and their goal is 180 degrees opposite of the regime in Washington DC.  Putin wants to get rid of ISIS and Obama and NATO want to get rid of Assad.
             Brother , you hit the nail on the head. They have painted these M.E. foreign leaders as terrorists,boogie men, to infer they are liberating these nations, in effect they are invading them.
Assad is holding out despite the fact the crews MSM choir stuffs down our throat daily he was a mass murderer, he used poison gas on his people--The Bull Sh**te
Assad did not order Syria chemical weapons attack, says ...
www.theguardian.com › World › Syria
  How many folks realize:. In 1988, he continued his studies at a military hospital in the city, where he specialized in ophthalmology. He moved to London in 1992 to fulfill his medical residency at St. Mary's Hospital. This guy was into helping people, a doctor,,for muck sake.

, the terrorists did use the gas and informed folks know it!  Turkey wants a piece of Syria, cutting up the bloody pie.
 

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2015, 10:55:13 AM »

... escalating.


Russian rescue helicopter 'shot down by Syrian rebels'
while searching for pilots of plane downed by Turkey


A Russian rescue helicopter has been shot down by Syrian rebels while searching for pilots missing after Turkey downed a Russian jet.

The helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing in a government-held area in Syria's Latakia province.

A Syrian insurgent group, which uses U.S. Tow missiles, said its fighters hit the helicopter with an anti-tank missile.

  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russian-rescue-helicopter-shot-down-6891003
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Offline poncho

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2015, 11:19:39 AM »
This thing has the capacity to now spin out of control very, very fast.

Why the hell are we arming Rebels/terrorists with Tow Missiles?
The Russian response to the rebels is going to be huge, they are going to escalate.

It's their response to Turkey that has me worried.

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2015, 11:44:26 AM »


  CNN Turk has sources that claim
both of the Russian pilots are alive


LIVE UPDATES BELOW (GMT):
4:15pm: Contrary to previous reports, CNN Turk has sources that claim both of the Russian pilots are alive, and Russia may have a POW / hostage situation on its hands. If this is true, and the earlier video and reports of Syrian rebels firing at the descending pilots remain accurate, they either missed the pilots or only injured them with small arms fire, and the wounded pilot depicted in the widely-circulated cell phone video is wounded but alive.

#BREAKING Sources say 2 pilots alive, they are in
hands of opposition, efforts underway to secure their
release pic.twitter.com/qyaL4Tvt2i


— CNN Türk ENG (@CNNTURK_ENG) November 24, 2015

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/24/video-nato-shoots-down-russian-fighter-jet-on-syria-border/
St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
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Offline One Revelator

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2015, 12:09:05 PM »
Why the hell are we arming Rebels/terrorists with Tow Missiles?

Or an Abrams tank, or humvees, or an entire fleet of shiny new Toyota pick-up trucks?

If we defund them, they will go away. But that might hurt the security industrial complex.....

For the rulers/authorities, commerce is much more important than human lives.
The number one cause of all human poverty, misery, and death is not global warming. It’s GLOBAL LYING.

Offline Al Bundy

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2015, 12:47:54 PM »
Interesting commentary for some Serbian Right-wing portal >

   11/24. 2015. at 17:35

"If you believe the information to the chief dealer with oil Erdogan's son !? Recep Erdogan can not get over the destroyed convoys with oil, as well as storage and wants to put on the Russians to retaliate, and then NATO into conflict with Putin!"

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2015, 01:42:39 PM »


Turkey is trigger-happy, anxious to hurt Russia... because
Turkey is definitely on the ISIS/Crazy muslim side in
this struggle. I wonder if NATO would actually back
TURKEY in a shooting war w/RUSSIA ... or if they would
kick them out of NATO, the best course.
I believe we will
face similar situations with other muslim countries
as this war unfolds.

... NATO has called a big meeting after
the shoot down of the RUSSIAN plane
and helicopter:


http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2015/11/24/nato-calls-extraordinary-meeting-after-turkey-downs-russian-jet/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NATO Should Tell Turkey:
‘This Thanksgiving, You’re Dumped’

by RAHEEM KASSAM  24 Nov 2015

It’s time to dump Turkey from NATO, and immediately
suspend its accession process to the European Union
(EU). There, I said it.


Some of us have been expressing deep concerns about the regress of the country of Ataturk for years, while others, including Britain’s Prime Minister David Cameron and his European Parliamentary colleague Daniel Hannan MEP, have been agitating for an immediate inclusion of Turkey into the EU. It simply cannot happen.

This morning’s downing of a Russian jet underscores the problems with Turkey’s NATO membership and EU accession. It is perhaps not the worst example of how Turkey is not fit to be in a formal military alliance with the United Kingdom and the United States, but it underscores the point that the country is simply not ready – not even as ready as it was pre-2000. The country has regressed in three key areas as far as Europe and the United States should be concerned: on security matters, on human rights matters, and as a hub for mass migration into Europe.

Turkey could be downgraded to a “major, non-NATO ally”,
and its EU accession timeline reset on the basis of the above.


√  http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/24/nato-should-tell-turkey-this-thanksgiving-youre-dumped/
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Offline Qster

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2015, 02:16:35 PM »
Russia has made its first substantive response to this incident.

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger

https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/

In summary the following measures are reported to be taken to protect aircraft:

1. Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise [protection] of fighter jets
2.Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
3. Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended


So if a Turkish F16 pulls this again, or even looks like they might, they will be facing anti-air missiles from the Moscow class cruiser and the SU30 or 34 fighter escort.

"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,” lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy said during the briefing.

“All military contacts with Turkey will be suspended,” he added.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2015, 02:55:03 PM »
So does this mean Russia is at war with Turkey? or is Turkey at war with Russia? Or each other?
Is this technically WWIII/IV?
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Qster

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2015, 03:10:39 PM »
Although NATO has made this standard obligatory statement:

"We stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally," Stoltenberg said at a press briefing.

However it is revealing that no-one - no country whatsoever - has come out in support of Turkey. I don't think they have made themselves the popular kids in NATO.

Indeed the vice Chancellor of Germany has made these comments about Turkey according to RT live

https://www.rt.com/news/323240-russia-turkey-warplane-downed/

German Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel called Turkish actions unpredictable.

“This incident shows for the first time that we are to dealing with an actor who is unpredictable according to statements from various parts of the region – that is not Russia, that is Turkey,” Gabriel said, as cited by DPA news agency. He added that Turkey was playing “a complicated role” in the Syrian conflict.


That sounds to me like diplomatic speak for "Turkey are fakking nutjobs and please do not associate us with anything those maniacs do".

Online chris jones

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2015, 03:55:15 PM »
Quote/S.C-Guardian:

More now from the Russian military, and about that new statement that a marine on a helicopter sent in to search for the crew of the downed jet also died.

Russia’s military general staff is quoted by Russian news agencies as saying that one of the pilots of the Su-24 warplane that was shot down by Turkey was killed by groundfire as he parachuted from his crippled plane.

General staff spokesman Lt. Gen. Sergei Rudskoi, added that rebels in Syria fired on a Russian helicopter that was searching for the two pilots of the Su-24.

The shooting killed one crew member on the Mi-8 helicopter and forced it to land in neutral territory, he says.

The rest of the crew was evacuated. Rudskoi also said that Russian radar data showed that Turkish warplanes had violated Syrian airspace in the course of shooting down the Russian plane

Offline poncho

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2015, 04:03:25 PM »
So does this mean Russia is at war with Turkey? or is Turkey at war with Russia? Or each other?
Is this technically WWIII/IV?


My gut tells me this is not the big one.

I think Russia will keep cool and calm.  They will respond, but probably not in a way that leads to war.

On the other hand, my gut is also telling me this is some serious foreshadowing... 

Offline iamc2

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2015, 04:06:42 PM »
 World War III may be rearing its' Ugly Dragon Head!

...the world is now in chaos because of Radical Islam! and Dumb Global policies !
"When the Truth was murdered:
Common Sense ran away..."

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2015, 04:30:23 PM »
quote poncho:

"My gut tells me this is not the big one."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah, Putin can be very cool under attack ...
and he knows the danger of NATO entanglement.
However, we can't trust Turkey ... there will
no doubt be more provocations ... the key
is dumping Turkey from the alliance ... I
believe at this point France & Germany are
signalling NAY to ERDOGAN -- US and UK,
saying YAY. The lines are unclear ... WHO IS
the enemy here? The emergency NATO summit
may determine that.

St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline poncho

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2015, 04:48:42 PM »
The emergency NATO summit
may determine that.

Indeed.  The outcome of that and any future decisions that they pronounce, will be telling.

I have a feeling you may be right about them dropping Turkey.  If that happens, does Russia pounce? 
I could see that, given what has happened to the Russians ally, Syria.  Tit for tat.   Russia showing it too can play the destabilization game that west has been so fond of.
Destabilization game, the real life version of the hunger games... (Fitting, given the timing of the final one of those.)

Offline Qster

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2015, 05:08:34 PM »
Indeed.  The outcome of that and any future decisions that they pronounce, will be telling.

I have a feeling you may be right about them dropping Turkey.  If that happens, does Russia pounce? 
I could see that, given what has happened to the Russians ally, Syria.  Tit for tat.   Russia showing it too can play the destabilization game that west has been so fond of.
Destabilization game, the real life version of the hunger games... (Fitting, given the timing of the final one of those.)

The extraordinary NATO meeting has already happened and the statement is essentially as I posted earlier - support for Turkey.

This was predictable but what is being said behind the scenes is probably somewhat less supportive to Turkey, as we have seen from comments out of Germany and elsewhere.

After the NATO meeting, the Russians came out with the statement that I posted earlier, about sending a missile cruiser and using fighter escorts.

We'll see what happens when/if a Turkish F16 gets shot down by a Russian fighter escort or ship to air missile. Even if that happens, the appetite in Europe and US to support Turkey over this (apart from hot air and outrage) will be pretty non-existent imo.

Link to NATO statement and q&a session:

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_125052.htm

Offline Sasha

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2015, 05:10:32 PM »
Even if the plane was in their (Syrian) airspace for few seconds, that is no excuse to attack...  It was clear that this plane was not an aggressive plane.  Still it was shot down.
- Erdogan circa 2012


Erdogan in 2012: Brief Airspace Violations Can't Be Pretext for Attack
Nov 25 - Sputnik News

Turkey has cited airspace violations as its justification for shooting down a Russian Su-24 bomber on Tuesday. But only three years ago, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan specifically stated that such actions should "never be a pretext for an attack."

In response to the downing of a Russian bomber by Turkish fighter jets on Tuesday, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan insisted that the military’s actions were justified.

"We did not want this situation to happen, but everybody has to respect Turkey’s right to defend its borders," he told reporters, adding that the military’s actions were "fully in line with Turkey’s rules of engagement."

Yet, three years ago, Erdogan had somewhat different thoughts on the matter.

In 2012, Ankara accused Syria of shooting down a Turkish F-4 Phantom. That plane crash-landed in the Mediterranean after veering into Syrian airspace. In response, an outraged Erdogan lambasted the Syrian military for acting in haste.

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he told Parliament at the time.

continues...
Morality is contraband in war.
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Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2015, 05:14:58 PM »
^^^^ - NATO STATEMENT

Yeah, looks like on paper they are taking
a hardline ... but seems not very strong
statement in Turkey's favor to me.
We'll have to see how this plays out in the
individual countries. The best thing NATO's
got is continuing the BS about ISIL vs "moderates".
Sticky situation ... especially with
a 95% muslim nation with BIG GUNS
throwing gasoline on the flames. Here's
a good question: If US/NATO planes
wander into Turkish airspace while on
a mission against 'radicals' (LOL), would
Erdogan shoot them down? Hollande, I
believe, is asking the same question.
St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2015, 05:41:28 PM »
new continuing topic ...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34915253
Tunisia blast: Explosion hits bus carrying presidential guards

An explosion has hit a bus carrying presidential guards in Tunisia's capital, Tunis, killing at least 12 people, officials said.

President Beji Caid Essebsi has declared a 30-day state of emergency and the capital is under curfew.
No group has yet said it was behind the attack.

Tunisia has been targeted by the Islamic State group, including an attack by a gunman on the beach resort of Sousse in June, killing 38 people.

The North African state is believed to be the biggest exporter of jihadis, with the authorities saying at least 3,000 of its nationals are fighting in Iraq and Syria.

The explosion happened at a bus stop where the presidential guard picks up and drops off its staff, near the former headquarters of the party of deposed President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Sasha

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2015, 08:03:32 PM »
Russian Defense Ministry Video Proves Su-24 Never Entered Turkish Airspace
Nov 24 - Sputnik News - video in the link

While authorities in Ankara have insisted that it shot down the Russian Su-24 bomber after the aircraft entered Turkish airspace, the Russian Defense Ministry has released video proving that the plane never left Syrian airspace.

According to a leaked letter written to the UN Security Council by the Turkish Ambassador, Turkey’s military justified the shooting down of a Russian bomber by claiming that the aircraft had entered Turkish airspace for 17 seconds.

But flight data released by Russian Ministry of Defense shows that the Su-24s never entered Turkey, and were attacked while performing legitimate maneuvers over Syria.

On Tuesday, Turkish F-16s shot down a Russian Su-24M Fencer bomber. One of the pilots has been confirmed dead by Russian authorities, shot by rebel ground units after ejecting.

Russian President Vladimir Putin described the incident as a "stab in the back, carried out against us by accomplices of terrorists."
Morality is contraband in war.
- Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2015, 09:08:32 PM »
^^^

... can't make sense of it ... I'm sure
the NATO side have their "experts" lined
up and that they will ignore reality
just as in the shot-down plane
in the UKRAINE.

St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline Sasha

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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2015, 09:49:38 PM »
They'll have to.  The pilots weren't engaged in aggression across the border by anyone's assertions yet nor were they in Turkish airspace for any significant length of time, even by the most stretched estimates.   Plus, Turkey's got some fairly official voices speaking about this as an act of Turkish state policy. 

Sky News' coverage included another gem.  The bit about others violating the Turkish government's rights, devised from international law, to protect the 'security of its citizens and borders', while Turkish official state policy has been to violate the the same sovereignties of their neighbor for years is more than a touch hypocritical.  No country's sovereignty should be violated and far, far fewer would be if any significant number of powerful nations, Turkey included, cared about international law for the purposes of doing anything with it other than remembering it when it serves their own protection.  From Sky News,

The United States believes the Russian jet shot down by Turkey was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a US official told Reuters.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the assessment was based on detection of the heat signature of the jet....

Turkish ambassador Halit Cevik said in a letter to the UN Security Council that his government was determined to defend its sovereignty, security and borders.

'Our rules of engagement are well known and are reiterated to all parties on numerous occasions,' wrote Cevik.

'Turkey will not hesitate to exercise its rights emanating from international law to protect the security of its citizens and borders.'
Morality is contraband in war.
- Mahatma Gandhi