Russian plane crashes in Egypt - 227 dead. :(

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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2015, 11:01:56 PM »
Russian Jet Likely Broke Up Midair Over Egypt, Officials Say
Deena Kamel , Tarek El-Tablawy and Yuliya Fedorinova - October 31, 2015 - Bloomberg - excerpt

Speed Loss

Two other accidents occurred with Airbus aircraft climbing sharply before losing speed and falling. In June 2009, an A330 operated by Air France went down in the Atlantic Ocean and in December 2014, an A320 operated by AirAsia Bhd. crashed in the Java Sea.

The A320 family is Airbus’s most popular plane, a single-aisle, twin-engine type that allowed the company to create a global duopoly with Boeing Co. for large passenger aircraft. The A321 is the longest variant.

The plane, operated by Metrojet since 2012 and produced in 1997, had logged about 56,000 flight hours over the course of nearly 21,000 flights, according to a statement from Blagnac, France-based Airbus.

Metrojet isn’t attributing the crash to human error, Interfax reported, citing Oksana Golovina from Tourism Holding & Consulting, which owns Kogalymavia, as the carrier is known in Russia.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #81 on: November 03, 2015, 11:13:50 PM »
How Lousy Cockpit Design Crashed An Airbus, Killing 228 People
New evidence shows that a lack of pilot feedback from the cockpit controls led to the crash of Air France Flight 447. What led to such a design disaster?

On June 1, 2009, Air France Flight 447 crashed into the ocean on its way back from Rio de Janeiro. 216 passengers and 12 crew died on impact. This month, the official investigation is likely to conclude with "human error" as the culprit—pilots making mistakes that forced the plane to crash. But evidence unearthed by The Telegraph tells a different story, that the pilots of the Airbus A330-200, and everyone else on the plane, were really victims of bad design.

And it’s not just one single component that could have avoided the tragedy. Multiple Airbus-designed systems played a role to create a deadly feedback loop that convinced them to climb to the point that the plane stalled and it fell from the sky. By the time the pilots figured out what was going on, they’d lost too much altitude to point the nose down and gain the speed necessary to maintain lift.

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Airbus A330-200 from Airbus Website:

The A330-200 is well established with major carriers around the world, and has become a preferred aircraft for charter and leisure operators, as well as the growing low-cost long-haul market segment.  With Airbus commonality in cockpit and cabin systems, an increasing number of airlines that fly the single-aisle A320 Family are discovering the advantages of stepping up to the widebody A330-200 for higher-capacity, longer-range service.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #82 on: November 03, 2015, 11:36:32 PM »
Russian plane crash: state of bodies suggests mid-air explosion - latest news
Cockpit recordings reveal "uncharacteristic sounds" in final moments of disaster in Sinai which killed 224 people
November 3 - Isabelle Fraser - Telegraph - excerpt

"Judging by the recording, a situation onboard developed suddenly and unexpectedly for the crew, and as a result the pilots did not manage to send a distress signal," a source said.

An Egyptian doctor who examined around half of the 224 bodies told The Telegraph that about one in five of the corpses had been badly burned in the moments before death.

The finding suggests that a fire broke out in the cabin while the plane was still the air but the doctor was not able to firmly conclude what caused the fire.

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Pirate

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Re: Plane down :( - awkward facts to consider
« Reply #83 on: November 04, 2015, 08:54:23 AM »
behind the sensationalist headlines a few awkward facts to consider

(a) Forensic Tests showed No Trace of explosives on Bodies

(b) Bodies do burn in Fires.

(c) Bodies showed 'No signs of External Impact'.

(d) Claims that a Satellite saw explosion are Un-Sourced and Anonymous"

Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #84 on: November 04, 2015, 09:40:42 AM »
Facts are that way aren't they?


a) ...preliminary tests that is.  And the source of the test info is a TASS report that also mischaracterizes, and over simplifies CNN's reporting, "US intelligence analysts have ruled that the Russian passenger plane was hit by a missile."

b)  They do.  But for the several reports that are carrying the TASS report as the new layer of the story, they are deciding simultaneously to discard an attending doctor's testimony in favor of the new info, rather than report the complexities.

c)  UK Telegraph took this info and leaned into the tech failure explanation in spite of the last line of the TASS report, "About what exactly the incident in question was not specified. It is not excluded, in particular, a version of the bomb, as well as any technical faults."

d)  Unnamed for sure, but not quite anonymous, NBC: "A senior defense official told NBC News late Monday that an American infrared satellite detected a heat flash at the same time and in the same vicinity over the Sinai where the Russian passenger plane crashed.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #85 on: November 04, 2015, 09:52:39 AM »
Russian plane crash: Was there an explosion?
November 3, 2015 - Jethro Mullen, Catherine E. Shoichet and Holly Yan - CNN - excerpts

Russia's privately owned Interfax news agency quoted an unnamed source in Cairo as saying the plane's cockpit voice recorder had captured uncharacteristic sounds the moment before the flight disappeared.

It cited the source as saying that an "unexpected' and "nonstandard (emergency)" occurred "instantly," which was why the pilots failed to send an emergency or alarm signal.

A top Russian aviation official has said the plane broke apart in midair. Sounds in the black-box recording could help investigators determine what caused that to happen, said Peter Goelz, a CNN aviation analyst and former managing director of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board.

"You can tell whether it is a high-order explosion, or a more low-order event, like a decompression and a tearing apart of the aircraft," he said.


The wreckage

The Egyptian committee investigating the Metrojet plane crash is expected to finish fieldwork on Tuesday evening, Egyptian Civil Aviation Minister Hossam Kamel said in a news statement Tuesday.

That's a sign that investigators will soon be closer to figuring out what happened, said Alan Diehl, a former accident investigator for the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, the Federal Aviation Administration and the U.S. Air Force.

"This airplane went down in the desert ... and that makes it a lot easier to locate the critical pieces. But that is very quick, if they can do that and get the forensic wreckage evidence into the labs, that will be good news," he said.

State broadcaster Russia 24 reported that the aircraft's tail was found about 5 kilometers (3 miles) away from the rest of the plane wreckage. It did not show any signs of burning from a fire, the state broadcaster said.

Russian state media has reported that so far, investigators haven't found any traces of explosive devices in the debris.

Explosives expert Chris Owen, from Alford Technologies, told CNN that if swabs had been taken from plane debris quickly -- while the wreckage was dry -- it could be possible to identify any explosive residue in a lab.

"However, there would probably be quicker and more obvious evidence from the type of damage sustained by bits and pieces around the bomb," he said. "Surfaces in the vicinity of any explosion would be expected to be bent, perforated, petaled, spalled, sheared, frayed, charred (especially fibers), melded by impact, and otherwise characteristically damaged."

Owen said it would be hard to rule out a bomb blast just because evidence of one had not been discovered. "If a bomb is ruled out, it will likely be because another cause has been found," he said.


The victims

Most of the bodies retrieved at the crash site are intact, a medical source in Sinai told CNN on Monday, and showed no major burns.

On the bodies of victims recovered so far, investigators haven't found any sign of explosive impact, Russian state media reported Tuesday, citing unnamed sources.

Russia's state-run TASS news agency reported that Russian and Egyptian experts had not found any blast-related trauma during their preliminary examination of the bodies, citing a Russian source within the investigation.

That doesn't eliminate the possibility that an explosion occurred, said CNN safety analyst David Soucie, a former accident investigator for the Federal Aviation Administration.

"A blast would not have to be very large ... to rupture the hull of that aircraft," he said.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #86 on: November 04, 2015, 11:28:53 AM »
Quote
Yesterday, forensic experts said passengers sitting at the rear of the Metrojet plane had shrapnel injuries, were peppered with metal particles and suffered 90 per cent burns after a blast blew off the tail wing.
- Daily Mail, November 4; "Black box analysis suggests an explosion in an engine..."

Sources in Egypt say this conclusion came from initial analysis of the black box recorders and observations at the crash site.

The report by Egyptian newspaper Al-Masry Al-Youm did not elaborate on whether the blast was caused by a technical fault or a bomb.

However, Russian news outlet LifeNews, citing the same source, reported that a fire caused by a 'technical failure' in one of the engines triggered an explosion.
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Offline eddy64

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #87 on: November 04, 2015, 12:55:20 PM »
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/no-10-explosive-device-may-downed-plane-170902035.html#QXBINHx

Quote
                     The Russian jet that crashed in Egypt "may well have been brought down by an explosive device", Downing Street has said.

The Metrojet plane, which was en-route from Sharm el Sheik to the Russian city of St Petersburg, crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Saturday, killing all 224 people on board.

The nature of the crash and the lack of an SOS have led to speculation that the jet was brought down by a bomb or a missile.

 :: Egypt Plane Crash: What We Know So Far

The UK Government said in a statement that while it cannot "categorically" say why the plane crashed, "as more information has come to light we have become concerned that the plane may well have been brought down by an explosive device".

As a result, a spokeswoman said all flights due to leave Sharm el Sheikh for Britain this evening will be delayed as a "precautionary measure" to allow a team of UK experts to assess what security arrangements are in place at the airport.

 :: Live Updates: Sharm Flights Delayed Amid No 10 Fears

This assessment is expected to be completed tonight, the Number 10 spokeswoman said, adding there were no more departures from the UK to Sharm el Sheikh on Wednesday.

"We would underline that this is a precautionary step and we are working closely with the airlines on this approach," she added.

A Thomson flight to Manchester was set to take off at 6.35pm local time, according to the website of Sharm el Sheikh airport.

An easyJet flight was due to depart for Luton at 6.45pm, with another to Gatwick at 7.05pm.

Extra consular staff will be on hand at the airport to work with airlines to help British holidaymakers, the Government said.

For those who are in Sharm el Sheikh or planning a holiday there in the coming days, the advice is to contact your airline or tour operator.

At this stage the Government's level of travel advice for Egypt remains unchanged.

Prime Minister David Cameron will also chair a meeting of the Government's COBRA emergency committee later on Wednesday to review the situation.

Mr Cameron spoke to Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al Sisi on Tuesday night to talk about security measures at the popular resort's airport.

Sky's Foreign Affairs Editor Sam Kiley said: "It's almost a certainty that this is based on active intelligence that the aircraft was most probably at this stage in the investigation destroyed by some sort of explosive device."

A security source told Sky's Defence Correspondent Alistair Bunkall that the intelligence that prompted the Government to take this decision did not come from the wreckage of the plane.

Investigators are studying sand from the crash site for signs of a bomb attack, a source close to the Egyptian team studying the black boxes told Reuters.

The source added that the cause of the crash is looking more like an explosion, although it is unclear if it was caused by fuel or a bomb.
     

Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #88 on: November 04, 2015, 07:10:34 PM »
While US and British Intel, effectively using the mouth pieces of US cable media, are running head long with the luggage-bomb assertion they're simultaneously saying that they're reserving judgment.  But there're still two strings of information that don't seem to have a common thread, save their part in describing the fabric of the same event.   


Russian passenger jet crash: Search area in Sinai expanded - Live Updates
Nov 4 - RT - excerpts

20:16 GMT

US intelligence has suggested a bomb planted on the Russian passenger plane by Islamic State or an affiliate group is “most likely” behind the Metrojet flight crash, CNN reported, citing a US official familiar with the matter. The US intelligence community has not reached a formal conclusion, the source added, but said “there is a definite feeling it was an explosive device planted in luggage or somewhere on the plane.”


13:48 GMT

An explosion within the engine allegedly caused the Airbus A321 crash in Sinai, media reports suggest. Citing sources in Egypt's investigative committee, Egypt’s Al-Masry Al-Youm reported that the decoded black boxes showed that an engine blast caused the crash of the plane, killing all 224 people on board.

With no distress signal sent from the plane to the flights control center, the anonymous source told the media that the explosion was huge and might have affected all the engines at once.

"The investigation did not point yet to have any links to terrorists," Al-Masry Al-Youm cited its source as saying, adding that samples from the wreckage had been taken to determine whether any explosive materials were present on the plane, or if the blast was the result of a mechanics failure.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #89 on: November 04, 2015, 09:16:32 PM »
Intel Points to ISIS Bomb on Russian Plane
Jason Ditz - Nov 04 - Antiwar.com

Saturday’s crash of a Russian airliner, killing 224 people on board, is being called a probable bombing by several nations, citing intelligence gathered on internal ISIS communications. The US said they had no specific intelligence prior to the incident but saw a flurry of activity in Sinai in the lead-up to the bombing.

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Russian plane crash: U.S. intel suggests ISIS bomb brought down jet
Barbara Starr and Catherine E. Shoichet - Nov 4 - CNN - excerpt

The signs pointing to ISIS, another U.S. official said, are partially based on monitoring of internal messages of the terrorist group. Those messages are separate from public ISIS claims of responsibility, that official said.

In an audio message from ISIS' Sinai branch that was posted on terror-related social media accounts Wednesday, the organization adamantly insisted that it brought down the flight.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #90 on: November 05, 2015, 10:29:23 AM »
Egypt-Russia Terror Attack: Who Are Responsibility-Claiming ‘ISIS Sinai’?
Nov 5 - Oliver Lane - Breitbart

One of the many Islamist factions borne of the Arab Spring, extremist group Ansar Bait al-Maqdis pledged allegiance to the Islamic State last year, becoming ISIS Sinai in the process.

The British government yesterday released a statement confirming suspicions that a bomb may have been responsible for bringing down the Russian Metrojet Airbus A321-200 on Saturday. That ISIS Sinai claimed responsibility for the attack early and even uploaded a graphic video showing what they claimed to be the aircraft breaking up mid-air, attention will inevitably fall to the shadowy group.

Although ISIS isn’t given to terror ‘spectaculars’ in the same way rival group Al-Qaeda have been, it is worth noting the downing of the Russian plane happened nearly a year to the day after ISIS Sinai were formally accepted into the Islamic State, which was later announced formally on the 10th of November 2014.

Described by the Jerusalem Post as “Egypt’s most dangerous militant group”, ISIS Sinai has already been active, launching attacks both within Egyptian Sinai, and against neighbouring Jerusalem. They claimed responsibility for a deadly attack against Egyptian security forces in Sinai in 2014, in which at least 30 Egyptian troops were killed in a combined bomb and gun attacks.

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related:

Sinai Province: Egypt's most dangerous group - 10 August 2015
The militant group Sinai Province is currently the most active insurgent group in Egypt. It has been linked to a number of deadly attacks, mostly in North Sinai, but also in the capital, Cairo, and other provinces.

The Islamist group has been active on the Sinai Peninsula since 2011 and was initially known as Ansar Beit al-Maqdis (Supporters of Jerusalem).

It changed its name after it pledged allegiance to the Islamic State (IS) group in November 2014.



Jihadist group takes credit for teens’ killings - July 3, 2014
A new Palestinian jihadist group pledging allegiance to the Islamic State (formerly known as ISIL) has claimed responsibility for the killing of three Israeli teenagers last month in the West Bank, as well as other recent deadly attacks against Israeli soldiers and civilians.

In a statement posted on jihadi websites Tuesday, the Supporters of the Islamic State in Bayt al-Maqdis said it was behind the capture and killing of “the three soldiers” in Hebron (actually, it was in the nearby Etzion bloc), sniper attacks in Hebron and Tarqumia, and missile launches from Gaza into Israel a month and a half ago.

The actions were carried out in honor of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the self-proclaimed “caliph” of the Islamic State, the reincarnation of the Islamic State in Syria and the Levant (ISIL) declared last month, the statement said.

“We are not a partisan group like the humiliated organizations, many of whose leaders sold their religion for the benefit of politics,” the communique read, in a critique of both Fatah and Hamas.

“They have entered polytheistic parliaments and allied themselves with heathens and Shiite leaders, transferring their preaching and religion to the West Bank and Gaza, God help us.”
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #91 on: November 05, 2015, 10:50:44 AM »
Islamic State Claims to have Shot Down Russian Airline over the Sinai
October 31 - Kurt Nimmo - Prison Planet - excerpt

The Islamic State and other jihadi groups have vowed to retaliate against Russia for its airstrikes in Syria and its defense of Bashar al-Assad.

Following the Egyptian Revolution of 2011 and “unprecedented clashes” in the lawless Sinai, elements of the Ansar Bait al-Maqdis group claimed allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and the Islamic State.

The group is made up largely of Bedouins, Egyptians and foreign jihadists. It has declared the Egyptian army and police to be apostates that can be killed.

Ansar Bait al-Maqdis has bombed pipelines that carry gas from Egypt to Israel and Jordan numerous times, has attacked police and military intelligence facilities, has taken responsibility for car bombings in Cairo and has reportedly carried out attacks inside Israel.

A large number of attacks have occurred in and around Hasna where the Russian airliner went down.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #92 on: November 05, 2015, 10:56:14 AM »
3 Muslim Brotherhood, Ansar Bait al Maqdis terrorists killed in Fayyoum, Cairo
August 29 - Arab Today

Egypt's interior ministry on Saturday said two Muslim Brhotherhhod terrorists and a member of the so called "Ansar Bait al Maqdis" terrorist organization were killed in a fire exchange with security forces in Fayyoum and a Cairo suburb.

In a statement, the ministry said that the two MB members were involved in forming a terrorist cell in Fayyoum and providing several hotbeds to hide the group's members and manufacturing explosive devices to be used in carrying out terrorist attacks.

The security forces raided their hotbed at a farm in Tamiya town early on Friday, but they opened their fire on the forces who find found themselves compelled to exchange fire with the terrorists, the statement read.

Two firearms and amounts of ammunition were found in their possession, the statement said.

The interior ministry said that the two dead were accused of killing the daughter and a friend of a police officer, assassinating a non-commissioned officer, opening fire on three police vehicles, Snurs court building and two vehicles carrying butane-gas cylinders and fuel.

The ministry added that the two dead were also accused of destroying ten electricity transformers and storming a police station.

Also, the statement said that a terrorist of the so-called "Ansar Bait al Maqdis" was killed after exchanging fire with security forces who deployed checkpoints to arrest him in Cairo suburb of May 15.

The statement added that an automatic rifle and amounts of ammunition were found in his possession.

The ministry accused the dead of manufacturing explosive devices used by the terrorist organization in their recent operations.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #93 on: November 05, 2015, 11:16:50 AM »
Islamic Jihad Founder: Brotherhood has been funding Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis
September 9, 2013 - trans: Al-Masry Al-Youm - Egypt Independent

Nabil Naeem, founder of the Islamic Jihad, said Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis is a group divided into two, one in Gaza and the other Egyptian branch in Sinai. He claimed that they had been funded by the Muslim Brotherhood recently.

Naaem said that the Islamic Jihad is currently being funded by the Muslim Brotherhood in conformance with a deal with Khairat al-Shater, the deputy supreme guide of the Brotherhood. The deal had been mediated by Mohamed al-Zawahiri, the brother of al-Qaeda's leader. Naeem said that Hamas is also part of the deal, according to an appeasement deal sponsored by ousted President Mohamed Morsy in return for cooperation from the Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis.

In statements to Al-Masry Al-Youm, Naeem added that a series of assassinations of public figures and bombings of institutions are expected over the coming period.

Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis were late to claim responsibility for the attack because they allegedly needed time to escape from the scene and withdraw from Egypt.

Naeem also said that radical groups would abandon their old positions and work to serve the Brotherhood. Their operation will be similar to the 1990s, but the Interior Ministry, he added, will be there to face them. These radical groups are concentrated in the oases, North and South Sinai and remote border governorates, but they moved to Sinai under Morsy's rule to serve the Brotherhood project.

Naeem added that Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis are well-trained to carry out assassinations, but the Egyptian security forces are capable of stopping their financing, he said.

Naeem accused Shater of financing terrorist groups in Sinai to carry out terrorist operations against Egyptians and added that there was a deal between these groups and Shater to empower the Brotherhood to remain in power as long as possible.

"Jihadi groups in Sinai have origins in Gaza, including Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis. Groups from Egypt joined them after the revolution, particularly under the rule of Morsy because he gave them political cover," he said.

"Right after the failed assassination attempt on the life of the Interior Minister, we accused jihadi groups and Hamas because they use the same methods and ousted President Mohamed Morsy had released 130 jihadis, a large number of whom were implicated in the assassination attempt," he said.

"These groups, however, will not be able to create a scenario similar to the one in Iraq, since the issue for them has nothing to do with religion or legitimacy, but rather about money," he said.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #94 on: November 05, 2015, 03:18:43 PM »
Cherry-picking facts may lead Sinai crash probe down MH17 lane – Russian aviation agency chief
Nov 5, 2015 - RT

While many new theories on the Russian plane crash in Egypt emerge every day, the investigation should collect facts first and then draw conclusions, Aleksandr Neradko, head of the Federal Air Transport Agency, said, warning against it going the way of MH17’s.

“Investigation of an aviation accident is not based on making up theories first and then cherry picking facts to prove them,” Neradko, who heads the Rosaviatsiya agency, told Russia-24 TV-channel on Thursday.

“If we choose such a path, we will repeat the fate of MH17 inquiry when a theory was voiced on the day of the crash and after that all the facts were massaged to what had been said on day one,” he added.

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Online chris jones

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #95 on: November 05, 2015, 08:05:22 PM »
  Planes:), lately there have been several crashes with these ???
  No list, no rant.....Passengers =Russian with a few Ukranians, there was an explosion.
  This professional states there is nitpiking, investigators say it will take months..Either way it will find it's way to the edge of the ole memory hole as so many others.
 
 
 

Offline Dude447

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #96 on: November 05, 2015, 08:23:55 PM »
  Planes:), lately there have been several crashes with these ???
  No list, no rant.....Passengers =Russian with a few Ukranians, there was an explosion.
  This professional states there is nitpiking, investigators say it will take months..Either way it will find it's way to the edge of the ole memory hole as so many others.
 

And that chris  is probably the truth . most people do not give a giants rat's ass what  happened .ie TWA Flight 800 etc etc .

Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #97 on: November 05, 2015, 09:27:49 PM »
Russia, Egypt dismiss suggestions that crash was caused by a bomb
Nov 5 - Gregory Katz - AP - excerpts

British and U.S. officials, guided primarily by intelligence intercepts and satellite imagery, have suggested gingerly it might have been the work of the extremist Islamic State group and its affiliates in the Sinai....

Russia and Egypt insist the investigation into the crash must run its course before any conclusion is reached. The Metrojet plane crashed 23 minutes after taking off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh for St. Petersburg with mostly Russians aboard....

The dispute arose after the U.S. and British intelligence was disclosed Wednesday, just as el-Sissi was heading to London on a previously planned visit – his first as president.

Russia complained that intelligence gathered by London and Washington about its jetliner has not been made available.

If Britain had information about a bomb on the plane, it’s “really shocking” that hasn’t been shared with Russia, said Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova, speaking in Moscow.

British officials declined to say what intelligence was shared with other countries.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #98 on: November 05, 2015, 09:32:34 PM »
Concerns grow about safety of U.S. troops in Sinai
Nov 5 - Dugald McConnell and Brian Todd - CNN

Washington—Concerns about the security of American forces stationed as peacekeepers in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula have increased this week after militants there issued an uncorroborated claim to have downed a Russian airliner.

A contingent of about 700 American soldiers is stationed at bases in northern and southern Sinai as part of an international effort to keep the peace between Israel and Egypt. But they are not a fighting force -- their mission is to observe and report, and they are equipped accordingly.

"Every soldier has an individual weapon, and there are the squad weapons as well. So we could defend ourselves if we were attacked," said retired Command Sgt. Maj. Rich Greene, who served with Task Force Sinai in 2011 and 2012. "But not anything that would take on a large, you know, coordinated attack."

While the area had been quiet for decades, the rise of ISIS-affiliated militants in the past two years has added an element of danger for the soldiers deployed there.

"They're outgunned by the terrorists right now, and it's a dangerous mission," said retired Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, a CNN military analyst. "They have mortars and artillery that they have been firing on the base camps."

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Online chris jones

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #99 on: November 06, 2015, 08:37:46 PM »
Arab Spring....I allways wonder what think tanker came up with terms like this.
 Sasha posted about Sinai, if these troops are getting incoming it is just the beginning.
 I have to pause when an article states are getting hit by rockest / mortars and the boots are not in a combat situation.
 CNN goes on to say an element of danger as if incoming isn't screaming death from above.
 Safe to say, CNN disqusts me.
      ISIS the elites/insiders son of frankenstein.

Offline John_Back_From_The_Club_O

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #100 on: November 06, 2015, 09:39:09 PM »
I've got to chime in on this one.  I'll make it short and sweet

This USA / NWO is desperate to use ANY excuse to escalate it's activity in Syria.  So what do have?  We have the corporate media pushing the "terrorists"  blew this plane up, non stop 24/7, as if that's what 'actually' happened.

What I find interesting is how Alex himself is pushing this 'theory' as well.  Even saying... "I'm not bragging but we predicted this very thing was going to happen..."

HOWEVER,  The video provided by Alex, the same video the MSM are 'selling' this terrorist 'theory' was debunked early because the plane in the video was NOT at the proper altitude.  Then, a super grainy video soon emerged, but that video was also debunked as soon as it surfaced as well.

The airline company was / is in all kinds of financial trouble and a act of terrorism would save them from the financial ruin looming over their heads.  So, any statement coming from them must be taken with a grain of salt.

Mike Savvage put forth his 'theory' when he brought in some so-called 'expert' with "inside info" who discussed a certain missile shot down the aircraft.  This has been debunked because the missile described by Savvage's guest has effective ceiling of only 9000ft.  Anything above 9000ft and the missile can NOT work.  So much for that.

I hate to be the first person to inform Alex Jones this, but a jet engine having a 'catastrophic' engine failure could include the engine blowing up thus, blowing up the aircraft.  Yes, it CAN happen.

The flight recording black box was recovered immediately (unlike Malaysia) and the only thing (we are told) was recorded was an "anomaly in the flight".  Whatever that means.

The Russians are NOT going to give the USA / NWO ANY excuse to meddle in Syria, and if a bomb actually blew up the plane they would be the last to fess up.

Nobody is going to tell the truth on this one so as the old proverb goes... "A lie travels around the word three times before the truth can even get it's shoes on."
The Crowd Shouted... “Give us Barabbas!” ... and People, The NWO Gave Him To You.
http://www.dominicanajournal.org/give-us-barabbas/

https://www.greatagain.gov

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #101 on: November 07, 2015, 05:39:45 AM »
Did you miss this ?
Its well researched and highly likely !

Probable Cause - Russian Plane Crash
https://adultnewsblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/probable-cause-russian-plane-crash/

EvadingGrid

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2015, 06:33:19 AM »
Did you miss this ?
Its well researched and highly likely !

Probable Cause - Russian Plane Crash
https://adultnewsblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/probable-cause-russian-plane-crash/

Nobody really wants the truth, they all have agenda driven talking points. So I doubt anyone will care about your blog post, not matter how well researched and factual.

GCHQ is about 10 days into a campaign to get legislation for mass surveillance, they are not exactly a trustworthy reliable source. Infowars should be aware of this, if only via Watson - but have taken an editorial decision which story to pursue.

I like AJ and he does a lot of good work, but the bottom line is he has bills to pay. He also has his own political agenda, he has been open about his Tory politics.

News Flash - if you really, really, really, want the truth you have to do your own research.


Now, you can go on all day about your Tail Strike Theory, and you might well be right. The thing is, the narrative is allways a fight between different interest groups, and your Tail Strike Theory has zero supporters, and it appeals to zero interest groups, so its not going to Fly.


Offline Qster

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #103 on: November 07, 2015, 10:17:30 AM »
I've got to chime in on this one.  I'll make it short and sweet

This USA / NWO is desperate to use ANY excuse to escalate it's activity in Syria.  So what do have?  We have the corporate media pushing the "terrorists"  blew this plane up, non stop 24/7, as if that's what 'actually' happened.

What I find interesting is how Alex himself is pushing this 'theory' as well.  Even saying... "I'm not bragging but we predicted this very thing was going to happen..."

HOWEVER,  The video provided by Alex, the same video the MSM are 'selling' this terrorist 'theory' was debunked early because the plane in the video was NOT at the proper altitude.  Then, a super grainy video soon emerged, but that video was also debunked as soon as it surfaced as well.

The airline company was / is in all kinds of financial trouble and a act of terrorism would save them from the financial ruin looming over their heads.  So, any statement coming from them must be taken with a grain of salt.

Mike Savvage put forth his 'theory' when he brought in some so-called 'expert' with "inside info" who discussed a certain missile shot down the aircraft.  This has been debunked because the missile described by Savvage's guest has effective ceiling of only 9000ft.  Anything above 9000ft and the missile can NOT work.  So much for that.

I hate to be the first person to inform Alex Jones this, but a jet engine having a 'catastrophic' engine failure could include the engine blowing up thus, blowing up the aircraft.  Yes, it CAN happen.

The flight recording black box was recovered immediately (unlike Malaysia) and the only thing (we are told) was recorded was an "anomaly in the flight".  Whatever that means.

The Russians are NOT going to give the USA / NWO ANY excuse to meddle in Syria, and if a bomb actually blew up the plane they would be the last to fess up.

Nobody is going to tell the truth on this one so as the old proverb goes... "A lie travels around the word three times before the truth can even get it's shoes on."

Indeed. To say it was a bomb on the plane is a very safe call to make in Alex's position since if it turns out true then he is vindicated, but if the investigation says otherwise then he can say it is a cover-up. Win/win as AJ would say.

The fact that the pig-man Cameron and some un-named sources in the US are saying it was likely to be a bomb does not make me feel more confident in that analysis, rather the reverse.

It is actually very unusual for a political leader to do what Cameron is doing - they usually say we should wait for the investigation, so why is he doing this? It's not likely to be in the people's interest or to prevent terrorism, but rather to put pressure on Putin to act precipitously.

It should be noted that RT reported last week that some Russian airlines were going to cancel flights to Sharm, and this was the day after Cameron the pig-man made his statement about a bomb, and his stunt in suspending UK flights to Egypt. Putin then needed to suspend all flights to Egypt so as not to appear weak. So the pig-man's target for his propaganda is Russian domestic opinion, which is where any effective pressure on Putin will need to come from, although this may well be playing into Putin's hands.

I also do not believe that Isil are capable of carrying out a bombing such as this. People talk about bribing a cleaner to take it aboard and so on, but this is not as easy as it sounds and the likelihood of discovery and failure at various points is very high. Additionally, security at Sharm is actually pretty good as it is a highly militarised zone.

If it was a bomb then it is much more likely to be a FF committed by the Russians and the intelligence pointing to Isil faked by the Russians. This would give Putin his justification to remove the gloves in Syria.

Offline Qster

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #104 on: November 07, 2015, 10:25:33 AM »
Did you miss this ?
Its well researched and highly likely !

Probable Cause - Russian Plane Crash
https://adultnewsblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/probable-cause-russian-plane-crash/

I think we've all seen that, and it's a distinct possibility. Although if the video (allegedly from Isil) is genuine then they would need to have a reason to be pointing a camera at that plane.

Also, that plane could have been chosen because of the tail strike damage, since it may only take a small device, placed in the weakened area, to blow the tail off and bring down the plane.

EvadingGrid

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #105 on: November 07, 2015, 01:06:16 PM »
In the press they are now trying to use the bomb - as cover - to send troops or bomb syria

qui bono ?

EvadingGrid

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #106 on: November 07, 2015, 01:23:10 PM »
I think we've all seen that, and it's a distinct possibility. Although if the video (allegedly from Isil) is genuine then they would need to have a reason to be pointing a camera at that plane.

Also, that plane could have been chosen because of the tail strike damage, since it may only take a small device, placed in the weakened area, to blow the tail off and bring down the plane.

Now that is interesting, an ordinary bomb in a suitcase does not really guarrantee downing a plane. For a start, it depends on where the suitcase ends up inside the cargo hold. If it is near the skin - for example - all that would happen is the thin aluminum skin would blow. No violent decompression because the cargo bay is not pressurised.

A suitcase bomb is a lot harder to pull off than people imagine. It needs to be placed in the right place. Like jammed under a ton of other luggage right next to the bulkhead, so that the blast is directional - and the force goes against the bulkhead. All of which is rather hard to engineer.

If this really is the case, it is not plausible that ISIS has the detailed knowledge to pull this off, you'd need detailed design plans and a real aero-engineer and other specialist knowledge.

EvadingGrid

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #107 on: November 07, 2015, 01:28:10 PM »
As for the noise, we know the plane continued after the tail section departed.
So we know because the aircraft was pressurized, and that the tail departed from the plane - that its guarantteed to have made a loud bang.
So the noise on the cockpit voice recorder alone, does not prove a damn thing.

We also know from the radar flight data that the plane immediately climbed vertical about 3,000 feet before taking a nose dive.
If you think about it, to suddenly climb 3,000 feet after an engine explosion, and on one engine is laughable.

Offline John_Back_From_The_Club_O

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #108 on: November 07, 2015, 11:21:42 PM »
Indeed. To say it was a bomb on the plane is a very safe call to make in Alex's position since if it turns out true then he is vindicated, but if the investigation says otherwise then he can say it is a cover-up. Win/win as AJ would say.



Alex is posting 'sources' from France today where THEY are saying the blackbox "indicates explosion". 

Excuse my skepticism.  France is NOT a part of the investigation.  Russia and Egypt are and they say the blackbox does NOT "indicate an explosion on board.

I'll tell you the truth in this matter.  The truth is, we'll 'never' know the truth on this one.
The Crowd Shouted... “Give us Barabbas!” ... and People, The NWO Gave Him To You.
http://www.dominicanajournal.org/give-us-barabbas/

https://www.greatagain.gov

Online chris jones

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #109 on: November 08, 2015, 07:17:41 AM »
Interesting, so many folks insist this jet was not targeted.
All Russian passengers and 3 Ukrainians. Just a coincidence?
   Just my take, this fact alone sets of a red light.
OK guys, even if this was coincidence, a rat ate a fuel line, a chip blew a fuse, or whatever,              what will be the results colaterally.

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #110 on: November 08, 2015, 08:09:42 AM »
Air Crash Investigation Japan Airlines JAL Flight 123 'Explosive Decompression'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awMHJ_ZZF5Y

"We could hear an explosion on the cockpit voice recorder" - just after here 57:17
They also thought it was an act of terrorism - but it was not !

In this case the pilots performed a miracle, which has never been reproduced on the simulator, in that they kept the plane in the sky...

Skip forward to 1 hour and 6 minutes
This explains what happened to the Rear Bulkhead , how they realised that it was NOT a Bomb.
How they realised that one part of the bulkhead sheered / broke. That metal fatigue was at the break, BUT what caused this ?
Tail Strike Repairs . . . .

See how this all fits the description of the known facts ?

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #111 on: November 08, 2015, 08:33:46 AM »
China Airlines Flight 611 - Scratching The Surface
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omOljI6ZecE

After 29:30 minutes into the Air Crash Investigations episode, it explains . . . how they discovered years ago it had a "Bad Tail Strike"
The repair was only briefly mentioned in the planes log book.
According to the manual, the entire section should have been replaced - not repaired.
They figured the area damaged was too large to cut out and replace.

Every time the plane flew, it pressurised and de-pressurized eventually causing metal fatigue . . . it took 20 years, and 20,000 flights.

35:30 minutes into the video watch







Offline John_Back_From_The_Club_O

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2015, 10:20:32 PM »
Interesting, so many folks insist this jet was not targeted.
All Russian passengers and 3 Ukrainians. Just a coincidence?
   Just my take, this fact alone sets of a red light.
OK guys, even if this was coincidence, a rat ate a fuel line, a chip blew a fuse, or whatever,              what will be the results colaterally.

I'm not saying the airliner was or was not targeted.  However, the corporate media is beating the 'targeted' dead horse to death which should raise suspicion among the folks on this board.

However, Russia is NOT going to give the west the opportunity do do something really stupid using the passenger jet as an excuse if it was sabotage.
The Crowd Shouted... “Give us Barabbas!” ... and People, The NWO Gave Him To You.
http://www.dominicanajournal.org/give-us-barabbas/

https://www.greatagain.gov

Offline John_Back_From_The_Club_O

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #113 on: November 08, 2015, 10:52:16 PM »
At least ONE Russian thinks the US joint / NATO / Israeli Axes blew this plane up.  ... and I seriously doubt this Russian dude is alone.

Here is where the bigger picture begins to take form.  As I have tried to explain to Americans, the USA is being set up for a major fall.  The world is going to want the NWO to 'put USA in it's place'.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Russias Reaction to Sinai Plane - Russian Bear - and Syria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrB1Jfdxwwo
The Crowd Shouted... “Give us Barabbas!” ... and People, The NWO Gave Him To You.
http://www.dominicanajournal.org/give-us-barabbas/

https://www.greatagain.gov

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #114 on: November 09, 2015, 04:49:19 AM »
If anyone bothered to read what I posted, they would know that in all probability that it was not a bomb.

If people could digest this, and realise that top aviation experts will be whispering this info to the likes of presidents.
In which case we could begin to decode the cynical press manipulation.

Offline misterash13

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #115 on: November 09, 2015, 07:38:29 AM »
Here is an interesting article on media reporting of the Russian plane crash

http://www.libertytruthbomb.com/irresponsible-media.html

it is amazing how they report speculation as fact

Offline John_Back_From_The_Club_O

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #116 on: November 09, 2015, 07:52:51 AM »
If anyone bothered to read what I posted, they would know that in all probability that it was not a bomb.

If people could digest this, and realise that top aviation experts will be whispering this info to the likes of presidents.
In which case we could begin to decode the cynical press manipulation.

Fact is we really don't know, or who is telling the truth.  Yes, regardless of what Alex and the corporate media are insisting, aircraft can explode in flight all on their own.
The Crowd Shouted... “Give us Barabbas!” ... and People, The NWO Gave Him To You.
http://www.dominicanajournal.org/give-us-barabbas/

https://www.greatagain.gov

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #117 on: November 09, 2015, 08:39:04 AM »
Fact is we really don't know, or who is telling the truth.  Yes, regardless of what Alex and the corporate media are insisting, aircraft can explode in flight all on their own.

For a start . . . that plane had STRUCTURAL DAMAGE after an accident
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20011116-0

The repair can then fail years, and years latter, it leaves an IDENTICAL signature to all the known facts of this Russian Plane crash.
The pilot had been COMPLAINING about POOR MAINTENANCE


Tail Strike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailstrike

I say this because its happened before :
  Japan Airlines Flight 123
  China Airlines Flight 611

When the plane reaches near max altitude, the repair fails, the cockpit flight recorder captures the LOUD BANG as the tail section breaks off.
the plane is pressurised, its no mystery why the loud bang.

We know this happened, we got the evidence on the ground - the plane lost its tail.
We also know this from the Flight Radar Record. https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/660411798131113984?ref_src=twsrc

Take a look at how the record shows the plane reaching 30,000 feet - then the tail breaks away and it goes nose up climbing vertical to 33,000 feet. At which point it stalls, and goes straight down.... This PROVES that it was not engine failure.

The pilot managed to put out a distress call, saying mechanical failure - this was reported...

Yes I'm getting annoyed.
Its one thing for arsewipe like CNN, BBC to publish political rubbish, but we in the Truth Community who constantly moan about the MSM ought to have higher standards.


It says something that nobody is interested in the extensive documented research I have posted, with proper links to reputable sources.

https://adultnewsblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/probable-cause-russian-plane-crash/

Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #118 on: November 09, 2015, 12:33:19 PM »
So, what was Isreal's intel?  Did US and British Intel have any independent intel?  Was Israel alone pushing the initial bomb-bag spiel that US and British merely parroted?


Israel provided intel on suspected bomb on Russian jet — report
Times of Israel staff, AP and AFP - November 8, 2015
Jerusalem tipped off UK, US on cause of plane crash in Sinai Peninsula, according to CNN; Jerusalem declines to comment

Israel provided intelligence regarding the Russian plane crash in the Sinai Peninsula, which indicated that a bomb had detonated on board, CNN reported on Sunday.

An unnamed US official and diplomatic source said that Jerusalem handed over information about the blast to the US and UK. One US official told the news outlet he was “99.9% certain” the plane had been bombed, while another said it was “likely.”

Israeli officials declined to comment on the report.

Earlier, a member of the Egyptian investigation team said they were nearly certain explosives had brought the plane down, killing all 224 passengers on board.

continues...
Morality is contraband in war.
- Mahatma Gandhi

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #119 on: November 09, 2015, 01:46:13 PM »
i got better more honest coverage of MH-17