Russian plane crashes in Egypt - 227 dead. :(

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Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: Why was Russian plane crash-BLOCKED?
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2015, 09:25:03 AM »
^^^

... OK, then. Massive electrical/fuel explosion?
Planted bomb?
Surface-to-air missile?

... any other possibilities?
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EvadingGrid

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ALL topics will be posted in General Discussion
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2015, 09:45:25 AM »
ok so from now on ALL topics will be posted in General Discussion
I'll start locking down all the other boards to Read Only on Monday.



Offline donnay

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2015, 09:57:41 AM »
Egypt plane crash: Authorities reject claim Isis brought down Metrojet flight 9268
Investigators have refused to rule out any potential cause of the crash, from technical problems to human error


 by London Independent | Ruth Michaelson | November 1, 2015

Egyptian and Russian investigators are working to piece together the cause of the crash of a Russian airliner in the Sinai peninsula with 224 people on board.

Flight 7K9268 had left Egypt’s Sharm el Sheikh airport early on 31 October heading for St Petersburg, with 217 passengers, including 17 children, and seven crew before losing contact with flight controllers less than 30 minutes into the trip. The Russian President, Vladimir Putin, has called today a day of national mourning; it is thought nearly impossible that survivors will be found. The vast majority of those on board were Russian nationals.

Investigators have refused to rule out any potential cause of the crash, from technical problems to human error .

A claim by an affiliate of Islamic State (Isis) that it had “brought it down” complicates matters further. Officials and experts were quick to pour scorn on the claim by the Province of Sinai group. But even if the claim is proved false, it leaves a headache for Mr Putin over Russia’s involvement in Syria’s civil war – a bombing campaign that began at the end of September – which is intended to confront the threat of Isis.

Egyptian officials travelled to the wreckage of the Airbus A321 in the Sinai peninsula, while the families of some of the 214 Russian nationals (three passengers were said to be Ukrainian) gathered at St Petersburg’s Pulkovo airport, awaiting news of their loved ones.

Read more here.
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Offline donnay

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2015, 12:49:56 PM »
So was it a bomb? Experts reveal Russian passenger plane which crashed and killed all 224 on board broke up at high altitude

By Darren Boyle for MailOnline

Published: 08:11 EST, 1 November 2015

Russian air crash investigators confirmed that an Airbus A321 which vanished from radar some 23 minutes after taking off from Sharm el-Sheikh broke up at high altitude.

Alexander Neradko, head of Russia's federal aviation agency confirmed that the jet disintegrated at high altitude in a remote area where Egypt is fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda-backed terrorists.

Mr Neradko refused to comment on the cause of the crash, claiming the investigation was ongoing, but terrorism experts believe that a bomb could have been responsible for the jet. 


Aviation sources claim the tail section of the aircraft shows evidence of 'the fuselage skin peeling outwards possibly indicative of a force acting outwards from within' - possibly a bomb - which could be linked to the earliest moments of the disaster sequence

Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299019/Co-pilot-s-wife-says-safety-doubts-doomed-Russian-jet-crashed-killing-224-emerges-jet-abort-three-months-ago.html


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Offline regmeok

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2015, 02:49:50 PM »
tragedy in faces.
rip.
sputnikipogrom.com/russia/46170/faces-of-9268/

Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2015, 04:18:50 PM »
AirLive.net  ‎@airlivenet 
BREAKING: Witnesses saw #7K9268 go down in fire and smoke. http://ift.tt/1PboZKx   - @AimanJarrar
6:47 AM - 31 Oct 2015


Has anyone seen images of charred wreckage?

This looks fire damaged.


The Egyptian Civil Aviation Ministry said that the plane lost contacts with air traffic control towers shortly after taking off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.
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Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2015, 05:29:13 PM »
the fuel tanks would have been near full after only 20 mins into the flight - so some burn marks not really that surprising.

Online chris jones

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2015, 05:48:09 PM »
So was it a bomb? Experts reveal Russian passenger plane...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Co-pilot-s-wife-says-safety-... - - Experts reveal Russian passenger plane which crashed and killed all ... but terrorism experts believe that a bomb could have been responsible.

Russian plane crash in Sinai: experts say Isil may have ...
www.telegraph.co.uk › ... › Europe › Russia -  - French experts believe Isil may have placed bomb on plane that crashed in Egypt on Saturday, with 17 children and 207 adults on board, and ...
Russian plane crash: Was a bomb placed on doomed ...

www.mirror.co.uk/.../russian-plane-crash-bomb-plac... - - A bomb is suspected of causing the Russian plane to crash after leaving the Egyptian tourist resort of Sharm el-Sheikh. Russian aviation ...

Offline regmeok

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2015, 05:51:08 PM »
the "irony" is that even if it were the bomb - it would be denied by Russia as it could impede its syrian campaign

Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2015, 05:57:21 PM »
the fuel tanks would have been near full after only 20 mins into the flight - so some burn marks not really that surprising.

Of course.  But with that much fuel one might expect quite a bit of scorching.  I can't find that much considering, as you say, the tanks were nearly full.

That image above, with the charring, might also an entirely different plane.  It seems to be a tal section and there's pretty clearly another picture of the blue tail without any scorch marks.

The other images don't seem to have much, if any.
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Online chris jones

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2015, 07:33:58 PM »
the fuel tanks would have been near full after only 20 mins into the flight - so some burn marks not really that surprising.
Hi Pirate, please back up the 20 minutes into the flight.

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2015, 08:43:55 PM »
Hi Pirate, please back up the 20 minutes into the flight.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/ei-etj/#7d986d3

Takes off about 3:51 UTC
Ends about   4:13 UTC



Also the Home Page is here :http://www.flightradar24.com/ its amusing because you can see most of the worlds planes flying around in real time ontop of a google map.

you can scroll around and look most places, not much traffic over syria !

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :( russkies news
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2015, 09:16:22 PM »
Flight 7K9268: What we do and don’t know about Russia’s deadliest-ever air crash
https://www.rt.com/news/320432-russian-sinai-crash-facts/

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2015, 09:19:28 PM »
of course one other possibility is a bomb placed onboard / sabotage

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2015, 09:24:02 PM »
Scoll Down a good way for this bit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11968554/Russian-plane-crash-everything-we-know-on-Sunday-afternoon-about-the-airliner-Isil-says-it-brought-down-on-Egypts-Sinai-Peninsula.html

 It also emerged Sunday that the 18-year-old Airbus aircraft had suffered a "tail strike" in 2001 as it landed in Cairo, when the rear of the aircraft scraped along the tarmac.

Records from the Flight Safety Foundation, first reported by The Daily Beast, show that it the accident caused "substantial" damage although the aircraft was reportedly repaired afterwards.

Kogalymavia said the aircraft was in good condition and had received factory maintenance last year.

However, co-pilot Sergei Trukachev reportedly raised concerns about the condition of the aircraft to his family before takeoff. "He complained before the flight that the technical condition of the aircraft left much to be desired," his wife, Natalya Trukhacheva told Russian state television.



Pirate

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Re: Plane down -- Did 2001 Accident Doom It? (Daily Beast)
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2015, 09:28:06 PM »
Russia Confirms Jet Broke Up in Mid-Air; Did 2001 Accident Doom It?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/31/did-accident-from-14-years-ago-doom-russian-plane-over-egypt.html
The airplane fell apart before crashing, evidently near the tail. That could mean a ‘tail strike’ from 14 years ago was never truly fixed.

Editor's Note: This story has been updated throughout.

The head of Russia’s aviation accident investigation body has confirmed that the Russian Airbus A321 that crashed in the Sinai on Saturday broke up in mid-air. Victor Sorochenko said that the wreckage was spread over an area of eight square miles – not concentrated in one debris field.

This would be consistent with a severe and very sudden structural failure that resulted in the airplane literally falling out of the sky from its cruise altitude of 31,000 feet. (An Egyptian statement that the pilot had reported a technical problem and asked for a diversion to the nearest airport was later withdrawn.)

The Airbus A321 was 18 years old, and had made 21,000 flights, a relatively low number when compared with the much higher daily frequency of flights made on budget airlines. With a modern airplane like this and regular maintenance its age is not in itself a cause for concern.

What does, however, jump out from this particular airplane’s record is an accident that it suffered on November 16, 2001, while landing at Cairo (while owned and operated by Middle East Airlines). As it touched down the nose was pointing at too high an angle and the tail hit the tarmac—heavily enough to cause substantial damage.

Tail strikes like this are not uncommon. The airplane was repaired and would have been rigorously inspected then and during subsequent maintenance checks. (Although the airplane was owned by a Russian company, Kogalymavia, operating as Metrojet, it was registered in Ireland and the Irish authorities were responsible for its certification checks.) Nonetheless investigators who will soon have access to the Airbus’s flight data recorder will take a hard look at what is called the rear pressure bulkhead, a critical seal in the cabin’s pressurization system.

A Russian television reporter said that the remains of the tail of the Airbus were found three miles from the rest of the wreckage. Images of the tail section show a clear break near the site of the rear pressure bulkhead.

In the event of a failure of this bulkhead, the airplane would have suffered a sudden and potentially explosive decompression; at its final recorded altitude of 31,000 feet the difference between the pressure inside the cabin and the air outside would have been at the point where such a catastrophic failure would be most likely to occur. The wreckage shows no signs of a fire or an engine-related explosion.


read more
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/31/did-accident-from-14-years-ago-doom-russian-plane-over-egypt.html

Pirate

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Probable Cause - Russian Plane Crash
« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2015, 08:27:24 AM »
Probable Cause - Russian Plane Crash
https://adultnewsblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/probable-cause-russian-plane-crash/

While the mainstream media is shifting blame onto ISIS, what is really the most probable cause ?

The sad reality is that the probable cause of the tragedy is largely being ignored by the press, whose first duty should be to inform the public. With even the most minimal amount of research, a highly likely probable cause that does not involve ISIS or some other agenda driven explanation is being largely ignored.

Online decemberfellow

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2015, 09:04:16 AM »
Russian Airline Sees External Impact as Cause of Egypt Crash

Quote
Airline rules out pilot error, systems failure as cause
Airline doesn't comment on possibility of terrorist attack
The plane probably broke up in midair after reaching a cruising altitude of 31,000 feet, strewing debris over a wide area. Before falling, it slowed abruptly and the crew didn’t make any attempts at emergency radio contact, Smirnov said. The crash occurred 23 minutes after takeoff from Sharm el-Sheikh, a popular Red Sea resort, bound for St. Petersburg.
“The plane was out of control,” Smirnov said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-02/russian-airline-sees-external-impact-as-cause-of-egypt-crash-ightsi9l?cmpid=yhoo.headline
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Pirate

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Probable Cause - Russian Plane Crash
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2015, 09:12:03 AM »
I'm sticking with "Tail Strike"

Even the Daily Mail is starting to carefully craft it into there account, slipping it in so they can not be accused of bad reporting at a latter date.

Here is the excerpt hidden behind sensationalist headlines

The aircraft, which was delivered in 1997, had flown more than 56,000 flight hours during 21,000 flights.

However, in November 2001, while flying into Cairo, the aircraft suffered a serious tail strike while landing.

According to a report on Flight Global, on November 16 2001 the aircraft struggled to keep to the glide slope as it approached Cairo airport. 

The incident report said: 'Following a daylight instrument landing approach on which the aircraft had diverged both above and below the glide slope, which had led the pilot to make large manual corrections. The aircraft suffered a hard tail-strike on landing, causing serious damage.

'Passengers disembarked normally at the gate.' 

The jet was repaired and returned to service but air crash investigators will try and determine whether the damage from 2001 weakened the airframe and led to its mid-air break up.




Probable Cause - Russian Plane Crash
https://adultnewsblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/probable-cause-russian-plane-crash/

While the mainstream media is shifting blame onto ISIS, what is really the most probable cause ?

The sad reality is that the probable cause of the tragedy is largely being ignored by the press, whose first duty should be to inform the public. With even the most minimal amount of research, a highly likely probable cause that does not involve ISIS or some other agenda driven explanation is being largely ignored.

Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2015, 11:04:18 AM »
Metrojet exec:  Something from outside plane caused the crash.

Russian Minister:  Both black boxes in good condition.

Clapper:  Can't rule out terrorism.

CNN aviation expert

"Looking at the numbers, its rate of descent is dramatic and variable; it goes on for some seconds before the plane succumbs.

But whatever happened was dramatic enough it made the plane uncontrollable or it became uncontrollable and stalled because of the way it was being flown.

There are reports that some eyewitnesses may have seen flames from an engine. Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable in these situations, but if there's an engine fire, there are procedures that take place. As we know from numerous cases, an engine failing -- even blowing up in flight -- does not cause the destruction of the aircraft."


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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2015, 11:11:04 AM »
International Commercial Airline Pilot, DJ Frost, via Fox News:  ...could have been a drone.
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Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2015, 11:59:00 AM »
International Commercial Airline Pilot, DJ Frost, via Fox News:  ...could have been a drone.

while its nice to see new ideas, its not exactly probable considering both aircraft have collision protection radar and computers.

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2015, 12:07:49 PM »
Metrojet exec:  Something from outside plane caused the crash.

Russian Minister:  Both black boxes in good condition.

Clapper:  Can't rule out terrorism.

CNN aviation expert

"Looking at the numbers, its rate of descent is dramatic and variable; it goes on for some seconds before the plane succumbs.

But whatever happened was dramatic enough it made the plane uncontrollable or it became uncontrollable and stalled because of the way it was being flown.

There are reports that some eyewitnesses may have seen flames from an engine. Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable in these situations, but if there's an engine fire, there are procedures that take place. As we know from numerous cases, an engine failing -- even blowing up in flight -- does not cause the destruction of the aircraft."


___

Not a good idea to just willy-nilly dismiss a witness.

easy, compare this eye witness report with the known facts.

then dismiss it as irrelevant, as an engine fire would not have brought the plane down, the pilots would have reported it.
also its really rather dubious that an eye witness could see the plane at any kind of altitude, which again re-enforces the above.

:)


Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2015, 01:08:30 PM »
easy, compare this eye witness report with the known facts.

then dismiss it as irrelevant, as an engine fire would not have brought the plane down, the pilots would have reported it.
also its really rather dubious that an eye witness could see the plane at any kind of altitude, which again re-enforces the above.

:)

Well, just to be fair, the report, "witnesses saw #7K9268 go down in fire and smoke", didn't include the specific information about an engine.  Unless it went unreported by the airline news source reported above, and CNN's Richard Quest, the writer of that CNN article, has the engine information from a longer description of the witnesses remarks.

The distribution of the crash does support an event occurring between the wings and the tail, however, rather than at either of the engines.  The fires that followed, what ever event did occur, left most of the fore-section intact until impact where quite a bit of it burned.

A truly strange part about the crash is that falling from that altitude with a broken or even detached tail section would lead to serious loss of control and wild flight features.  The fore-section of the fuselage seems to have 'landed' somewhat, rather than crashed - the remnants are laid out horizontally rather than vertically crushed like a long aluminum can.
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Pirate

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2015, 01:15:32 PM »
i will say that if it was a bomb - which i still do not rate as likely - i would blame CIA rather than ISIS

i am sticking with "Probable Cause – Russian Plane Crash" as more evidence has emerged saying :

(a) poorly maintained plane with pilot complaining about state of repairs.
(b) difficult and complex repair to the air frame required specialist non-scheduled vigilant maintenance.
(c) lastly the spike in the flight data graph.


Pirate

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attacks infowars bomb reporting
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2015, 01:33:38 PM »

Online chris jones

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Re: attacks infowars bomb reporting
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2015, 06:50:06 PM »
ouch, its been updated to attack infowars bomb reporting.
                        Just my opinion, if they attack AJ (infowars) I don't give them credence, main stream chatter.... AJ digs deep my Friend, very little he has said has been of the rails.
                      I rely on this site for the real news, I watch MSM to keep up with the spins/BS..

Online chris jones

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Re: Russian Plane Crash
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2015, 07:04:58 PM »
How about why start a second thread when our resident russian had already started a thread - while the story was breaking ?
They decided which board to post and the thread title.

All I did was MERGE the second thread into the original thread !

To Avoid Confusion I left a MOVED Post behind - sticky'd at the top, the very top of General Discussion.
            Hi MIA,   Very honestly all I saw posted was... Plane:) no mention of area or country origins etc. Thats why I posted, no offense intended.

Offline regmeok

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2015, 07:51:13 PM »
nbc

Satellite Shows Heat Flash When Russian Metrojet Plane Crashed, But No Missile: U.S. Officials

While many have speculated that a missile may have struck a Russian commercial airliner that went down over Egypt's Sinai peninsula, U.S. officials are now saying satellite imagery doesn't back up that theory. A senior defense official told NBC News late Monday that an American infrared satellite detected a heat flash at the same time and in the same vicinity over the Sinai where the Russian passenger plane crashed. Related: Metrojet Rules Out Technical Fault as Cause of Crash in Sinai Peninsula According to the official, U.S. intelligence analysts believe it could have been some kind of explosion on the aircraft itself, either a fuel tank or a bomb, but that there's no indication that a surface-to-air missile brought the plane down. That same infrared satellite would have been able to track the heat trail of a missile from the ground. "The speculation that this plane was brought down by a missile is off the table," the official said. A second senior U.S. defense official also confirmed the surveillance satellite detected a "flash or explosion" in the air of the Sinai at the same time. According to the official, "the plane disintegrated at a very high altitude," when, as the infrared satellite indicates, "there was an explosion of some kind." That official also stressed "there is no evidence a missile of any kind brought down the plane." Russian officials first said Sunday that it appeared the plane had broken up in midair — fueling speculation of a possible plot involving explosives — and officials on Monday did little to dispel those fears. When asked whether a terror attack could have downed the plane, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said no theory could be ruled out, according to Reuters.

Pirate

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Re: attacks infowars bomb reporting
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2015, 08:26:50 PM »
                        Just my opinion, if they attack AJ (infowars) I don't give them credence, main stream chatter.... AJ digs deep my Friend, very little he has said has been of the rails.
                      I rely on this site for the real news, I watch MSM to keep up with the spins/BS..

it was just highly critical of them cashing in on the bomb theory - with no evidence.

Online chris jones

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Re: attacks infowars bomb reporting
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2015, 05:01:54 AM »
it was just highly critical of them cashing in on the bomb theory - with no evidence.
                 Just as is there is no evidence it was a tail section, so bottom line-we dig around and check out all the possability's. Apparently there was an explosion," in fact its undeniable, verifed.
                It would be avery easy solution to agree, for example 911 was committed by a crew of Talibans with boxcutters, or fluoride is great for your teeth, healthy stuff...we accept the mainstream or we search for truths.
 
                 

EvadingGrid

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2015, 05:20:08 AM »
I took another look at the tail photos, and all I can see is signs that is was pressurized when it broke apart.

Pirate

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Re: Plane down - US Satellite Data - Heat Flash
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2015, 05:40:35 AM »
Well today the Daily Mail is saying that a US Satellite detected a heat flash, but you would have to trust them over that being accurate.

It still says very little taken on its own.

For starters did the accident cause the fuel to ignite, or did the fuel ignition cause the accident ?



The news comes as US officials claim an American infra-red satellite detected a heat flash on the route the aircraft was taking seconds before the plane fell from the sky, suggesting there was some sort of explosion on board.

The data does not show the heat flash travelling at any time, as would be the case had a ground-to-air missile been launched in the plane's direction.

Instead, the satellite evidence illustrates that there was just a single burst of ferocious heat on the jet's path.

That has now opened up the possibility that a bomb on board, or an explosion in a fuel tank or engine as the result of a mechanical failure, caused the plane to come down.

A US official stressed that the infra-red data meant any speculation that a missile had been launched at the jet was simply 'off the table'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3301094/Terrifying-final-moments-doomed-Russian-jet-Plane-lurched-passengers-sucked-seats-external-impact-blew-jet-apart-flight-data-reveals.html

Pirate

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Re: Plane down :( - A seriously sick possibility
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2015, 06:06:14 AM »
A seriously sick possibility - for which I must say I have no evidence

The plane was sabotaged with the purpose of making Putin's Campaign in Syria unpopular at home in Russia.

The idea being that an "awful cost" in Russian lives would make Putin's popularity plunge in the Polls from 89%.

But the ultimate goal, would be knowing that Putin would eventually get a "Top Secret" report on his desk designed to push him closer to WW3

Like I said, its just a theory, without evidence, but I thought I should mention it.

Online chris jones

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2015, 10:30:35 AM »
 Did they have a choice, or just simply allow ISIS to take over Syria.
 
 

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Re: Plane down :( - A seriously sick possibility
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2015, 10:49:09 AM »
A seriously sick possibility - for which I must say I have no evidence

The plane was sabotaged with the purpose of making Putin's Campaign in Syria unpopular at home in Russia.

The idea being that an "awful cost" in Russian lives would make Putin's popularity plunge in the Polls from 89%.

But the ultimate goal, would be knowing that Putin would eventually get a "Top Secret" report on his desk designed to push him closer to WW3

Like I said, its just a theory, without evidence, but I thought I should mention it.
^^^^
That's where my thoughts were.
from page 1 
Quote
Pure speculation but the US has that capability. Wouldn't surprise me if that be so especially the blaming isis part.
Rev21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


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Offline Qster

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Re: Plane down :( - A seriously sick possibility
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2015, 11:23:10 AM »
A seriously sick possibility - for which I must say I have no evidence

The plane was sabotaged with the purpose of making Putin's Campaign in Syria unpopular at home in Russia.

The idea being that an "awful cost" in Russian lives would make Putin's popularity plunge in the Polls from 89%.

But the ultimate goal, would be knowing that Putin would eventually get a "Top Secret" report on his desk designed to push him closer to WW3

Like I said, its just a theory, without evidence, but I thought I should mention it.

This is unlikely.

Putin's numbers are ridiculously solid and would not be affected by an event like this, even if the Russian media states that it was a terrorist attack, indeed they would probably improve..

A comparable event would be the Moscow apartment building bombings of 1999 where 250 civilians were killed. Putin blamed this on Chechen terrorists which then justified the war in Chechnya. After the bombings, Putin's approval ratings skyrocketed and have been there pretty much ever since. Even the tens of thousands of Russian casualties in Chechnya did not put much of a dent in Putin's approval rating.

What we see is that the Russian population reacts differently to western populations. Their resolve is strengthened by events such as this, rather than the reverse. So this begs the question: if this plane crash was a false flag attack, the most likely culprits may well be the same as those who committed the Moscow bombings - suspected to be the FSB under Putin's orders.

After all, if Russian boots on the ground are required in Syria, which they might be, what better justification than an Isil attack on a Russian civilian aircraft..

People should not forget that, while we may agree with what he is saying on many issues, Putin is a ruthless and effective operator who is playing for very high stakes.

Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2015, 08:25:40 PM »
Russian plane's 'black box recorded unusual sounds'
Russian media reports say unusual sounds recorded in cockpit moment before passenger plane crashed in Egypt's Sinai.
04 Nov 2015 - Al Jazeera

Russian media reports say unusual sounds have been heard from cockpit recordings at the moment a Russian passenger plane crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula at the weekend.

The news came after revelations by US broadcasters that satellite images had detected a heat flash at the time of the crash that killed all 224 people on board the Airbus A-321.

"Before the moment of the disappearance of the aircraft from radar screens, sounds are recorded which are not characteristic of a normal flight," Interfax quoted an unnamed security source in Cairo as saying.

A team of investigators led by Egypt and aided by experts from Russia, Airbus and Ireland visited the crash site on Tuesday as they try to find out the cause of the deadly crash.

continues...
Morality is contraband in war.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2015, 08:51:53 PM »
Now that's interesting: 

Egyptian doctor says injuries on the bodies suggest a powerful explosion took place aboard.

Russian and Egyptian experts and an unnamed Russian News source says there were no signs of an "explosion impact".



ISIS releases video claiming revenge ‘downing’ of Russian passenger jet over Sinai
4 Nov, 2015 - RT - excerpts

A new Islamic State video shows a Russian-speaking jihadist praising his “Sinai brothers” for “taking down” a Russian passenger jet and threatening more attacks, while both Russia and Egypt say the group doesn’t possess the means to shoot down a plane.

In the newly-released video, five Islamic State (IS, formely ISIS/ISIL) jihadists are seen sitting outside as one of them praises militants in the Sinai Peninsula for allegedly bringing down the Russian A321 passenger jet with 224 people on board.

Surrounded by four fellow jihadists, a Slavic-looking man speaking both in Russian and Arabic, addresses President Vladimir Putin, warning the Russian leader that he would regret targeting ISIS in Syria.

With a knife in hand, he threatens to continue taking down planes, invading countries, and killing people in retaliation for Russia’s military operation in Syria.

Islamic State first attempted to claim responsibility for bringing down the Airbus 321 shortly after the plane crashed en route from Egypt’s Sharm-el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg on October 31.

However, the claim was quickly rejected by both Russian and Egyptian officials as “unlikely.”

The US State Department echoed the refutation, saying that it “has no indication of terrorists taking down” the plane, either.

___ ___

On Tuesday, an Egyptian doctor who examined the passengers’ bodies said that the nature of their injuries led him to suggest that “a powerful explosion took place aboard the plane before it hit the ground.”

A bomb explosion aboard the plane had been mentioned earlier as one possible cause of the crash.

However, Russian and Egyptian experts reportedly failed to find any blast-related trauma during their preliminary examination of the bodies.

“There were no signs of an explosion impact found during the preliminary examination,” an unnamed source told TASS news agency.

So far, Egyptian investigators are inclined to favor mechanical damage or technical malfunction as the most likely cause.
Morality is contraband in war.
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Offline Sasha

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Re: Plane down :(
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2015, 10:56:12 PM »
"It dropped gradually at first and then more rapidly as the plane’s forward speed slowed,..."

"...the aircraft was bucking up and down in its final seconds."

"...fell from 31,000 feet to 26,000 feet in the final 26 seconds,..."


Metrojet Latest: Doomed Russian Plane Plunged At 300 Miles Per Hour
11/03/2015 - Zerohedge

Earlier today, we got the latest conflicting reports from the bevy of officials, “experts”, and investigators weighing in on the Russian passenger jet that fell out of the sky above the Sinai Peninsula.

According to Russian media, an Egyptian “forensic expert” has come to the conclusion that an explosion was likely the cause of the crash.

You needn’t be an “expert” to understand his logic. Essentially, he suggested that because body parts were scattered across such a wide radius, it seems likely that something on the plane blew up.

That doesn’t necessarily mean there was a bomb on board and indeed, if the plane’s tail wasn’t properly repaired after it struck a runway in 2001, it’s possible that a catastrophic failure resulting in a “violent explosion” could occur years later. Still, the fact that ISIS released a video purporting to show the plane exploding and the fact that the pilot did not contact anyone on the ground to indicate that anything had gone wrong, seems to suggest that something happened very quickly which resulted in the complete destruction of the aircraft.

Now, we get the latest on the ill-fated flight from Bloomberg and FlightRadar24, with the latter reporting that the plane essentially slowed down abruptly before falling out of the sky at 300 miles per hour. Here’s more:

Quote
The Russian plane that crashed Saturday in Egypt slowed suddenly and then plunged to the Earth at 300 miles (483 kilometers) per hour, according to revised data of its final moments captured by flight-tracking website FlightRadar24.

The Metrojet Airbus Group SE A321 carrying 224 people fell from 31,000 feet to 26,000 feet in the final 26 seconds, according to the final transmission from its radio transponder reporting information to the ground.

The new data is consistent with reports from Egyptian and Russian officials, who said that the plane came apart as it was flying at cruising altitude from Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg. It also indicates that the plane’s direction of travel was wobbling from side to side, which would occur if it was coming apart.

It dropped gradually at first and then more rapidly as the plane’s forward speed slowed, according to the new data. By the last transmission, it was moving forward at only 54 miles (87 kilometers) an hour, far below a normal flying speed.

Raw data from the plane reported initially by FlightRadar24 suggested the aircraft was bucking up and down in its final seconds. The flight tracking firm now believes that altitude information was erroneous.

The newer information released Tuesday is based on global-positioning satellite data that the plane also transmitted, which the firm believes is more accurate, according to a posting on its website.

All of the above contradicts statements made earlier today by Egypt’s civil aviation ministry whose spokesman Mohamed Rahmi claims there's no proof that the plane came apart in the air.

In any event, this looks like further evidence that the plane did in fact explode, which means that either a tail strike that occurred in 2001 ultimately caused the plane to fall out of the sky 14 years later, or else someone detonated something on board.

The takeaway from the above is that this must have been an absolutely horrifying event - the plane explodes, the pieces basically stall at 31,000 feet before plummeting to the ground at 300 miles per hour. Once again, if there's any shred of evidence to corroborate claims that ISIS is responsible for this, you can expect the Russian Defense Ministry to begin airing daily videos depicting strikes on IS Sinai in short order.
Morality is contraband in war.
- Mahatma Gandhi