Catholicism

[White Rose Sophie]

The Roman Catholic Church is just the "dressing up"  of the Roman Empire". Catholicism is "mystery Babylon", just as Freemasonry is, just as "New Age" is, just as all the other "religions" are. Luther was extremely anti-semitic, which is what conditioned the German people to accept later manifestations of that opinion. Catholicism battled Freemasonry for centuries, but it was just a power struggle on who was going to be the top of the pyramid. Didn't Jesus himself say that "AND you shall know them by their fruits. A bad tree does not produce good fruit and a good tree does not produce bad fruit." And unfortunately, the Catholic Church has had centuries of Bad Fruit. That is not saying that there are not genuine followers of Christ in the Catholic church. I believe there probably are, but I believe G-D judges each person independently. Eternal life is not a "group/corporate achievement". It is between every single person and G-D alone. And the only way is through His Son's atonement. And through NONE of own own feeble works. The "one true church" in my opinion, is made up of all who have surrendered their life, heart, and their will to Yeshua HaMaschiah, Jesus the Christ. No matter what "denomination" they belong to. I suggest you read Fox's Book of Martyrs if you want to debate the fruits of The Romans Catholic church.

[DAVIDE MTL]

Let me repeat my self, Catholic Church contradicted Christ for centuries ( inquisition, Jesuits, plunder and killings in Constantinople by
crusaders in 1204 AD, proselytism, St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, indulgence, Roman Pope Pius XII was not excommunicated Adolf Hitler from the Catholic Church, participation of Pope John Paul II in the destruction of Yugoslavia...).

Of course, that Vatican is not responsible for 90000 murdered Christians on Middle East. I did not wrote that.

But answer us on the forum, who are "freemasonic jews" who run Catholic Church ?   

I asked you how the Catholic church with it's doctrine has gone against Christ..you haven't given me anything...your other examples are propaganda made up by jews and protestants, no point in arguing about it because you can't prove any of it and I'm not interested

  JP 2 was not catholic

when you ask who freemason jews are that is a loaded question, not sure what exactly you want to know..names?
are you not aware of freemasonry? the jews who killed Christ ,started the french revolution, the bolshevik revolution ,have controlled the important freemasonic lodges , have always waned to destroy the Catholic Church, if you pm me I can send you some books

as for indulgences

It is claimed that the Catholic Church invented the doctrine on indulgences in order to extract money from the faithful. Critics
are quick to remind us that it was the selling of indulgences in the Middle Ages that sparked the Protestant Reformation. No
one disputes that there were abuses by individuals in the past. But past abuses should not be used as a reason to reject
indulgences. The Bible itself has always been subject to abuse. Should it too be rejected? Of course not! Both the Bible and
the doctrine on Indulgences should stand or fall on their own merits.

indulgences cannot be bought. Some will claim that the fees attached to Masses for the dead prove otherwise.
However, the fees are small and usually go to the priest who says the Mass. Certainly priests, just like all full time ministers,
deserve to get paid for the work they do. The Apostle Paul says as much in 1 Corinthians 9:11-12: "If we have sown spiritual
good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits? If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still
more?"
The use of indulgences goes back to the early days of the Church and is firmly based on scriptural principals. The Bible
clearly teaches that some punishments are eternal (lasting forever), and others are temporal (lasting for only a time).
Indulgences are granted for the remission of the temporal punishment due to sin.
One example in the Bible of temporal punishment is that of King David. When he was found guilty of murder and adultery,
he repented and was forgiven by God (2 Samuel 12:1-18). Although God forgave him, He still punished him with, among
other things, the death of his son.
That temporal punishment is satisfied in Purgatory is a necessity of Scripture. We know from 1 John 5:17, that all sins are not
mortal (depriving us of eternal life). We also know that we must account for every sin. Ecclesiastes 12:14 says: "God will
bring every deed into judgment." And In Matthew 12:36-37 Jesus says: "On the Day of Judgment men will render
account for every careless word they utter." How would someone who died with non mortal sins account "for every
careless word?" Purgatory is the only possible answer.
The Church has always taught that temporal punishment is required in this life or in Purgatory to heal the wounds of sin and
prepare us for eternal happiness with God. Pope Paul VI speaks of that dual role in his "Apostolic Constitution on
Indulgences:" "The aim pursued by ecclesiastical authority [The Church] in granting indulgences is not only that of helping
the faithful to expiate the punishment due sin but also that of urging them to perform works of piety, penance and
charity – particularly those which lead to growth in faith and which favor the common good" (4:. The Bible itself
encourages such behavior.
 On piety: "Present your bodies as a living sacrifice; holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual
worship" (Romans 12:1).
 On penance: "Yet even now," says the Lord, "return to me with all your heart, with fasting, with
weeping, and with mourning; and rend your hearts and not your garments. Return to the Lord, your God,
for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love, and repents of evil" (Joel
2:12-13).
 On charity: "But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart
against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or speech, but in
deed and in truth" (1 John 3:17-18).
Those receiving indulgences must be sorry for their sins. The wrong attitude toward sin renders our prayers ineffectual. In
Psalm 66:18-19 we read: "If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened." Performing acts of
piety, penance and charity helps us to focus on the effects of sin, thus promoting in us a genuine contempt for it. A truly
repentant individual is more likely to grow in holiness.
Indulgences may be partial, remitting only a part of the temporal punishment due, or plenary, remitting all of the temporal
punishment due. Some Bible Christians are fond of claiming that the Catholic Church tries to keep its members away from
25the Bible. Ironically, "A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful who, with the veneration due the divine word, make a
spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture. A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an
hour" (Enchiridion of Indulgences No. 50).
Strictly speaking, the granting of indulgences is not the forgiving of sins. "An indulgence is a remission before God of the
temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven" (Catechism of the Catholic Church No. 1471).
Thus indulgences may be applied to the souls in purgatory by way of prayer. This was taught by the early Church as
evidenced by Tertullian, who wrote: "We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries" (The Crown 3:3, 211
AD).
"An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by
Christ Jesus (Matthew 16:19), intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of
Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishment due for their sins"
(Catechism of the Catholic Church No. 1478). The granting of indulgences is the logical extension of the Church's ministry
of forgiveness (John 20:21-23).
There is some misunderstanding concerning the term "the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints." It is feared that the
Church is somehow equating the saints with Christ. However, this is not so. The treasury consists of the prayers of Christ and
the saints. The term is simply an acknowledgment that they both pray for us (Hebrews 7:25, Revelation 5:.
Furthermore, the use of the word "merits" does not mean that we can earn anything from God. James Akin addressed this
point in an article that appeared in the November 1994 issue of "This Rock" magazine entitled, "A Primer on Indulgences."
He wrote:
Humans can't earn anything from God, though by His grace they can please him in a way He chooses to
reward. Picturing the saints' acts under a single, collective metaphor (such as a treasury) is biblical: "It was
granted her [the Bride] to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure" (Revelation 19:. John tells us, "For
the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints." Here the righteous deeds of the saints are pictured under
the collective metaphor of clothing on the bride of Christ, the Church. Jewish theology also recognizes a
treasury of merits. Jewish theologians speak of "the merits of the fathers" – the idea being that the
patriarchs pleased God and inherited certain promises as a reward. God fulfills these promises and ends up
treating later Jews more gently than they would have been treated. The idea of "the merits of the fathers" is
essentially the same as the Catholic concept of the "treasury of merits." Both postulate a class of
individuals, the Old Testament patriarchs on the one hand and Christ and the saints on the other, who have
pleased God and whom God chooses to reward in a way involving lesser temporal punishments on others.
An example of this principle can be found in 2 Kings 8:16-19:
In the fifth year of Joram the son of Ahab, king of Israel, Jehoram the son of Jehosophat, king of Judah,
began to reign. He was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem.
And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, as the house of Ahab had done, for the daughter of Ahab
was his wife. And he did what was evil in the sight of the Lord. Yet the Lord would not destroy
Judah, for the sake of David his servant, since he promised to give a lamp to him and to his sons forever.
That indulgences exist is reasonable and to be expected. The same loving Father, who through the death of His only Son
provided a way to eliminate our eternal punishment, also provided a way to eliminate our temporal punishment.

[DAVIDE MTL]

Now you got it

Maybe the church ought to reread the bible then. As it seems they go out of their way to justify their existence.

If I am wrong, that is between God and I.

you are wrong, 100%, which means eternity in hell fire..you should put a little more effort into saving your soul

 Bishops were in authority over congregations: "For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains
to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you" (Titus 1:5). The office of bishop is spoken of eight
times in the New Testament. The Greek words used are episcopos ἐπίσκοπος, which means a superintendent or overseer,
someone who visits, and episskope ἐπισκοπή, which just refers to the office.
Presbyters were reminded of their responsibilities: "From Miletus he had the presbyters of the Church at Ephesus summoned.
'Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock, of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you
tend the Church of God that He acquired with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come
among you, and they will not spare the flock. And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to
draw the disciples away after them'" (Acts 20:17, 28-30). How do you suppose those deceivers will appear? "Even Satan
masquerades as an angel of light. So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness"
(2 Corinthians 11:14-15). That is why John says, "We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while
anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit" (1
John 4:6). This is a reflection of Jesus' own words, “Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects
me" (Luke 10:16), and "If he refuses even to listen to the Church, then treat him as you would a gentile or a tax
collector" (Matthew 18:17).
Consequently, believers were to submit to Church authority, "Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you.
Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do
not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings...Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over
you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no
advantage to you" (Hebrews 13:7-9, 17). The word "leader" is translated from the Greek word hegeomai ἡγέομαιand
means to lead with official authority. Similarly, in 1 Peter 5:5 we read, "Likewise, you younger members, be subject to the
presbyters."
The teaching of the early Church parallels the scriptures. In the year 110, Ignatius of Antioch wrote in his letter to Polycarp,
"You must be made holy in all things by being united in perfect obedience, in submission to the bishop and the priests." That
Rome was the source of authority is confirmed by Irenaeus (140-202 AD): "We point to the tradition of that very great and
very ancient and universally known Church, which was established at Rome...for with this Church, because of its superior
authority, every church must agree" (Against Heresies 3, 3:2).

[DAVIDE MTL]

The Roman Catholic Church is just the "dressing up"  of the Roman Empire". Catholicism is "mystery Babylon", just as Freemasonry is, just as "New Age" is, just as all the other "religions" are. Luther was extremely anti-semitic, which is what conditioned the German people to accept later manifestations of that opinion. Catholicism battled Freemasonry for centuries, but it was just a power struggle on who was going to be the top of the pyramid. Didn't Jesus himself say that "AND you shall know them by their fruits. A bad tree does not produce good fruit and a good tree does not produce bad fruit." And unfortunately, the Catholic Church has had centuries of Bad Fruit. That is not saying that there are not genuine followers of Christ in the Catholic church. I believe there probably are, but I believe G-D judges each person independently. Eternal life is not a "group/corporate achievement". It is between every single person and G-D alone. And the only way is through His Son's atonement. And through NONE of own own feeble works. The "one true church" in my opinion, is made up of all who have surrendered their life, heart, and their will to Yeshua HaMaschiah, Jesus the Christ. No matter what "denomination" they belong to. I suggest you read Fox's Book of Martyrs if you want to debate the fruits of The Romans Catholic church.

The bible states
Ephesians 4:5 “One Lord, one faith, one baptism...” not 1000 protestant sects with their own interpretation of the bible..if you don't have the true Christian faith there is no chance at salvation, your comment that "The Roman Catholic Church is just the "dressing up"  of the Roman Empire".
is nonsense. What you do counts towards your salvation, stop being a  lazy Christian

James 2:24 “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”
Hebrews 5:9 “And being made perfect, he [Jesus] became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.”
It’s not by faith alone

[Al Bundy]

@DAVIDE MTL

One of the time.
Names ? Yes or on name it one from "freemason jews who control Catholic Church". 
By the way,  I know Jews who organized Bolshevik revolution.

[EvadingGrid]

I thought you were discussing Luther ,now jumping to Orthodox..who are not pure and original, they are schismatic, don't believe in t papal supremacy, the papacy, they believe it's ok to divorce 1 time, directly contradicting Christ etc

Satan through Jewry has always wanted to destroy the Catholic Church, Vatican 2 is their masterpiece

The Orthodox Church never suffered the Reformation

Let me speak slowly for you and keep it real simple . . .

Before the schism, there was just one Christian Church.
After the schism, there where 2 churches . . . 

The interesting part, is how the two churches went down different paths.
The Roman Church added doctrine that latter caused the Reformation and the Orthodox did not.

I will not attempt to list every single difference, I think Luther listed about 95, but list a couple of the big ones that fuelled the Reformation and are still discussed today.


Purgatory :
Does not exist in Orthodox Faith - because it was invented after the schism

Clerical Celibacy :
Does not exist in Orthodox Faith - because it was invented after the schism

I could continue to list all the headline issues of The Reformation that continue in the present day such as "indulgences" and so on, but we all have better things to do.....
The Reformation never effected the Orthodox Church, because it more or less carried on after 1052 without adding made up all new doctrine.

Of course you are free to argue that the church was perfectly entitled to add and change doctrine to "prove" that Rome was right and Orthodox was wrong.... The only problem being that you can start with Vatican 2. The other choice is to admit that the church can not add or change doctrine any time it feels like it. The choice is yours.

Just remember that the Orthodox Church never suffered the Reformation because it remained pure to the original pure doctrine.

[DAVIDE MTL]

The Orthodox Church never suffered the Reformation

Let me speak slowly for you and keep it real simple . . .

Before the schism, there was just one Christian Church.
After the schism, there where 2 churches . . . 

The interesting part, is how the two churches went down different paths.
The Roman Church added doctrine that latter caused the Reformation and the Orthodox did not.

I will not attempt to list every single difference, I think Luther listed about 95, but list a couple of the big ones that fuelled the Reformation and are still discussed today.


Clerical Celibacy :
Does not exist in Orthodox Faith - because it was invented after the schism

I could continue to list all the headline issues of The Reformation that continue in the present day such as "indulgences" and so on, but we all have better things to do.....Purgatory :
Does not exist in Orthodox Faith - because it was invented after the schism


The Reformation never effected the Orthodox Church, because it more or less carried on after 1052 without adding made up all new doctrine.

Of course you are free to argue that the church was perfectly entitled to add and change doctrine to "prove" that Rome was right and Orthodox was wrong.... The only problem being that you can start with Vatican 2. The other choice is to admit that the church can not add or change doctrine any time it feels like it. The choice is yours.

Just remember that the Orthodox Church never suffered the Reformation because it remained pure to the original pure doctrine.

Let me speak even slower than you

You write Purgatory : Does not exist in Orthodox Faith - because it was invented after the schism

The orthodox are in error and do not have the pure doctrine as  purgatory is biblical, nothing invented after the schism, not sure where you get your info.. here’s the explanation

1 CORINTHIANS 3:15 IS IRREFUTABLE PROOF FOR PURGATORY
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest:
for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall
try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath
built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned,
he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”


The early Church taught this

Augustine
There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the
altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is
wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).
Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of
them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal
punishments, which are to follow after that judgment (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left
hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree
in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity
l8:69 [A.D. 421]).

I have much more if needed


You write Clerical Celibacy :Does not exist in Orthodox Faith - because it was invented after the schism
The orthodox are in error, St Paul clearly states the celibate state is superior to he married state, I can get you the passage if you really need it.



You write  :I could continue to list all the headline issues of The Reformation that continue in the present day such as "indulgences"

  "indulgences I already explained it I in a previous post


Trust me , The traditional Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, look up miracles by St Francis of Assissi, Lourdes, Fatima..all confirm Catholic Church is the Church of Christ

[DAVIDE MTL]

@DAVIDE MTL

One of the time.
Names ? Yes or on name it one from "freemason jews who control Catholic Church". 
By the way,  I know Jews who organized Bolshevik revolution.

So the names are not so important as to understand the same synagogue of satan that  organized the Bolshevik revolution has control of the Vatican. Paul VI was definitely part of the freemasonic lodge.

[Al Bundy]

So the names are not so important as to understand the same synagogue of satan that  organized the Bolshevik revolution has control of the Vatican. Paul VI was definitely part of the freemasonic lodge.

Ok. you named one Pope who was freemason. But when "freemasons jews" hijacked Catholic Church ?
I never heard that one Patriarch of Serbian Orthodox Church is member of freemasonic lodge. But Patriarchs of Constantinople...

[DAVIDE MTL]

Ok. you named one Pope who was freemason. But when "freemasons jews" hijacked Catholic Church ?
I never heard that one Patriarch of Serbian Orthodox Church is member of freemasonic lodge. But Patriarchs of Constantinople...

Vatican 2 was the official coming out party of the jew counterfeit sect. But from a 1000 years earlier jews pretended to be Catholic in order to avoid persecution,
I'll post part of a good book called Plot against the Church

This “Fifth column” is formed by the descendants of the
Jews, who in earlier centuries were converted to Christianity
and seemingly held in enthusiastic manner to the religion of
Christ, while in secret they preserved their Jewish belief and
carried out clandestinely the Jewish rites and ceremonies. For
this purpose they organised themselves into communities and
secret synagogues, which were active centuries-long in secret.
These apparent Christians, but secret Jews, began centuries
ago to infiltrate into Christian society, in order to attempt to
control it from within. For this reason they sowed false
doctrines and differences of opinion and even attempted togain control of the clergy in the different churches of Christ.
With all this, they applied the cunning of introducing crypto-
Jewish Christians into the seminaries of the priesthood, who
could gain admission into the honorary offices in the Holy
Catholic Church and then into the dissident churches, upon
whose division these secret Jews had so much influence.
While the Church of Rome, their Holinesses the Popes and
the Ecumenical Councils fought effectively through the
thousand years of the Middle Ages against Jewry and above all
against the “Fifth Column”, the revolutionary movements that
were organised for the division and destruction of Christianity
were completely conquered and destroyed. So it occurred from
Constantine until the end of the fifteenth century.
Unfortunately afterwards Holy Church, for reasons which we
will study later, could no longer attack in an effective manner
the “Fifth Column”, which was formed by secret Jews who had
been smuggled in as believers, as priests and even as
dignitaries. Then the power of the Jewish revolutionary
movement became ever stronger, until, at the end of the
eighteenth century, it took on the character of an irresistible
avalanche.
In the 20th century, when Jewish cunning had reached its
uttermost limits of causing Catholics to forget the gigantic
struggle of several centuries, which had taken place between
Catholicism and Jewry, the latter attained its greatest progress
in its plans for the control of the world. For it has already been
successful in enslaving a third of mankind under the Jewish-
Communist dictatorship.
In the Middle Ages, the Popes and the Councils were
successful in destroying the Jewish revolutionary movements
which appeared within Christianity in the form of false
teaching and which were introduced by those who were
Christians in appearance but Jews in secret. The latter then
recruited upright and good Christians for the arising heretical
movement by persuading the latter in a crafty way.
The secret Jews organised and controlled in secret manner
the movements, which were the creative and driving force of
wicked false teachings, such as those of the Iconoclasts, the
Cathars, the Patarines, the Albigensians, the Hussites, the
Alumbrados and others.The work of these Jews smuggled as a “Fifth Column” into
the bosom of the Church of Christ was made easier through
their hypocritical conversion to Christianity or that of their
forefathers. In addition, they laid aside their Jewish surnames
and took on very Christian names, which were embellished
with the surnames of their godfathers. Thus they were
successful in mixing with Christian society and taking
possession of the names of the leading families of France, Italy,
England, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Poland and the other lands
of Christian Europe. With this system, they were successful in
penetrating into the bosom of Christianity itself, in order to
conquer it from within and to destroy the core of the religious,
political and economic institutions.
The network of secret Jews existing in Mediaeval Europe
passed on in secret manner the Jewish belief from fathers to
children, even if all openly led a Christian life and filled their
houses with crucifixes and images of Catholic saints. In general
they observed Christianity in an ostentatious manner and
appeared most devout, in order not to arouse any suspicion.
Naturally this Jewish system of converting themselves in
hypocritical manner to Christianity, in order to take the
Christian citadel and to make easier the loss of its unity, was
finally discovered by Holy Church to the corresponding
scandal and alarm of the Holy Fathers, the Ecumenical, the
provincial councils and those clergy steadfast in their faith.
However, what called forth most scandal was the fact that
these secret Jews introduced their sons into the established
clergy and monasteries, and in fact to such good effect that
many of them attained the dignity of canon, bishop, archbishop
and even cardinal.

[EvadingGrid]

Let me speak even slower than you

You write Purgatory : Does not exist in Orthodox Faith - because it was invented after the schism

The orthodox are in error and do not have the pure doctrine as  purgatory is biblical, nothing invented after the schism, not sure where you get your info.. here’s the explanation

Its a matter of historical fact that the Orthodox church refused to accept the insertion of medieval Purgatory. It was in fact one of the causes of the schism, so it is incredibly well documented historical fact.

1 CORINTHIANS 3:15 IS IRREFUTABLE PROOF FOR PURGATORY
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest:
for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall
try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath
built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned,
he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”

Selected quotes for a theological debate as to : was Rome "correct" to insert Purgatory are irrelevant.
I can list all the passages the church uses to claim, as can anyone else if they feel like it...
Quoting the bible does not prove that the church always taught Puragtory since the year dot... LAUGHABLE

The early Church taught this

Resorting to claim that the early church taught this is about as ignorant as you can get. The early church taught a multitude of conflicting doctrines, heck they even had gnostic shit... Using that phrase is idiotitc, don't do it, it makes you look an utter fool in public.

Augustine
There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the
altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is
wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).
Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of
them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal
punishments, which are to follow after that judgment (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left
hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree
in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity
l8:69 [A.D. 421]).

I have much more if needed

I don't care on Augustine's views, its utterly and completely irrelevant.
It changes nothing.

You write Clerical Celibacy :Does not exist in Orthodox Faith - because it was invented after the schism
The orthodox are in error, St Paul clearly states the celibate state is superior to he married state, I can get you the passage if you really need it.

Read a History Book . . .
Again, I don't care about the theology, the fact is Rome inserted Clerical Celibacy - AND THE POPES HAD CHILDREN . . .
Saint Peter (Simon Peter) - he was married - perhaps that is why he was picked !!!

And since you are Pope worshipper how about these popes, none of whom was virginal or celibate !!!
Pope Adrian II, Pope John XVII, Pope Clement IV, Pope Pius II, Pope Innocent VIII, Pope Clement VII, Pope Julius II, Pope Paul III,
Basic version, the Clergy not only married, but was at it like bunny rabbits - historical fact, not theological debate.

You write  :I could continue to list all the headline issues of The Reformation that continue in the present day such as "indulgences"

  "indulgences I already explained it I in a previous post


Trust me , The traditional Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, look up miracles by St Francis of Assissi, Lourdes, Fatima..all confirm Catholic Church is the Church of Christ

Trust me the Roman Catholic Church caused the Reformation, by changing Doctrine.

You theological arguments do not change Historical Facts, it just proves that you can not debate me on this issue.

[Al Bundy]

@David MTL

This is a forum in which they can come up with different theories and conspiracy theories, but to do so required evidence.

You're the Same cited a book - "Conspiracy against the Church" or even 1 quote from that "good book".
Therefore, your assertion that the "Masonic Jews" crept into the Catholic Church resembles retold book Dan Brown.

And here in Serbia, there are people who accuse without proof:
politician accused the former US "diplomat" Richard Holbrooke that he ordered to burn monastery Chilandar (Serbian Orthodox Church) on Mount Athos, Greece.
Or various charlatans who find one word in Sanskrit which is similar to a Serbian word or a toponym in Europe, "conclude" that "Serbs are the oldest nation in the world."

[DAVIDE MTL]

Its a matter of historical fact that the Orthodox church refused to accept the insertion of medieval Purgatory. It was in fact one of the causes of the schism, so it is incredibly well documented historical fact.



Selected quotes for a theological debate as to : was Rome "correct" to insert Purgatory are irrelevant.
I can list all the passages the church uses to claim, as can anyone else if they feel like it...
Quoting the bible does not prove that the church always taught Puragtory since the year dot... LAUGHABLE



Resorting to claim that the early church taught this is about as ignorant as you can get. The early church taught a multitude of conflicting doctrines, heck they even had gnostic shit... Using that phrase is idiotitc, don't do it, it makes you look an utter fool in public.


I don't care on Augustine's views, its utterly and completely irrelevant.
It changes nothing.



Read a History Book . . .
Again, I don't care about the theology, the fact is Rome inserted Clerical Celibacy - AND THE POPES HAD CHILDREN . . .
Saint Peter (Simon Peter) - he was married - perhaps that is why he was picked !!!

And since you are Pope worshipper how about these popes, none of whom was virginal or celibate !!!
Pope Adrian II, Pope John XVII, Pope Clement IV, Pope Pius II, Pope Innocent VIII, Pope Clement VII, Pope Julius II, Pope Paul III,
Basic version, the Clergy not only married, but was at it like bunny rabbits - historical fact, not theological debate.

Trust me the Roman Catholic Church caused the Reformation, by changing Doctrine.

You theological arguments do not change Historical Facts, it just proves that you can not debate me on this issue.

You write:
Its a matter of historical fact that the Orthodox church refused to accept the insertion of medieval Purgatory. It was in fact one of the causes of the schism, so it is incredibly well documented historical fact.

Me: I never disputed the fact that the  Orthodox Church  have refused to accept certain teachings from Rome, not sure why you are mentioning that.  What I’m telling you is that purgatory is biblical which makes the Catholic Church correct, they didn’t just invent this  doctrine out of thin air , that’s why I post the biblical passages and the teachings of the early Church which of course are not irrelevant.



You write
Quoting the bible does not prove that the church always taught Puragtory since the year dot... LAUGHABLE

Me :I don’t recall  making any statement that Purgatory was taught from the year dot...


I’m giving you teachings from the church fathers,biblical passages, statements from popes…before the schism

Here’s a quote from 593 AD,.

Pope St. Gregory the Great, Dialogues (4, 40), 593 A.D. “Everyone is presented
in judgment just as he is when he departs this life. But nevertheless, it must be
believed that there is, for the sake of certain lesser faults, a purgatorial
fire before the judgment, in view of the fact that Truth [Jesus] does say
that if anyone speak blasphemy against the Holy Spirit it will be forgiven
him neither in this world nor in that to come [Matthew 12:32]. In this
statement we are given to understand that some faults can be forgiven in this
world and some in the world to come. For if something is denied to one in
particular, the intellect logically infers that it is granted for some others. But, as I
said before, this must be believed to be a possible disposition for small and
lesser sins.” (William Jurgens, The Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 3:2321)


This alone disproves your false claim that the doctrine of purgatory is what caused the reformation.

you write
Resorting to claim that the early church taught this is about as ignorant as you can get. The early church taught a multitude of conflicting doctrines, heck they even had gnostic shit... Using that phrase is idiotitc, don't do it, it makes you look an utter fool in public.

Me..uh no ignorance, just a fact that we have the church fathers from as early as the 3rd century and   practice of the Church was to pray for the faithful departed
 
You write:
I don't care on Augustine's views, its utterly and completely irrelevant.It changes nothing.

Me: Irrelevant to you,not sure what faith you have,  not irrelevant to someone from the orthodox faith who is ignorant to the fact that the early Church taught purgatory

You write: Read a History Book . . . Again, I don't care about the theology, the fact is Rome inserted Clerical Celibacy - AND THE POPES HAD CHILDREN . . .
Saint Peter (Simon Peter) - he was married - perhaps that is why he was picked !!!

Me: When did I ever say The Church did not change the practice on clerical celibacy??  You seem to be under the  impression the Church can’t change certain rules or practices, do you have any idea what Matt  16  means . There’s a difference between  The Church not changing declared dogmas to the Church changing certain regulations, practices as they seem fit.   


You write: And since you are Pope worshipper
I’m a sedevacantist and reject all the popes since 1958, stop making ridiculous comments, makes you look an utter fool in public


how about these popes, none of whom was virginal or celibate !!!
Pope Adrian II, Pope John XVII, Pope Clement IV, Pope Pius II, Pope Innocent VIII, Pope Clement VII, Pope Julius II, Pope Paul III,
Basic version, the Clergy not only married, but was at it like bunny rabbits - historical fact, not theological debate.

Me: There have been 40 anti popes in the history of the Church, if I ever claimed all the popes in history were saints then your info would be relevant, I never made such a claim, so  its utterly and completely irrelevant. It changes nothing

You write
Trust me the Roman Catholic Church caused the Reformation, by changing Doctrine.

Me: No ,you haven’t proven this false claim, an accurate statement would be heretics within the Church caused the reformation, The Church then excommunicated these heretics from hell.


You write:
You theological arguments do not change Historical Facts, it just proves that you can not debate me on this issue

Me:
I never changed historical facts, you’re adding an argument I never made. What I have proven  is that only The Catholic Church has the pure Christian doctrine because it’s the Church of Christ, not the Orthodox.  The reformation was caused by Satan's helpers.

[DAVIDE MTL]

@David MTL

This is a forum in which they can come up with different theories and conspiracy theories, but to do so required evidence.

You're the Same cited a book - "Conspiracy against the Church" or even 1 quote from that "good book".
Therefore, your assertion that the "Masonic Jews" crept into the Catholic Church resembles retold book Dan Brown.

And here in Serbia, there are people who accuse without proof:
politician accused the former US "diplomat" Richard Holbrooke that he ordered to burn monastery Chilandar (Serbian Orthodox Church) on Mount Athos, Greece.
Or various charlatans who find one word in Sanskrit which is similar to a Serbian word or a toponym in Europe, "conclude" that "Serbs are the oldest nation in the world."

my "assertion " that jew freemasons have infiltrated the Church is fact to anyone who cares to do a little research, I told you to pm me and I could send you more, you have a lot to learn

[Al Bundy]

my "assertion " that jew freemasons have infiltrated the Church is fact to anyone who cares to do a little research, I told you to pm me and I could send you more, you have a lot to learn

I think you can`t or you won`t to except the history of Catholic Church.

[DAVIDE MTL]

I think you can`t or you won`t to except the history of Catholic Church.

why can't the same apply to you..you don't want to accept the history of the Catholic Church.....I know more about the history of the Church than most..I argue with modernists who call themselves catholic ....

[EvadingGrid]

I think you can`t or you won`t to except the history of Catholic Church.

Both can't and won't

[DAVIDE MTL]

Both can't and won't

ditto

[Al Bundy]

ditto

ditto. So you admit that you are not want to know any FACT about Catholic Church which you do not like ? Bravo.   

[DAVIDE MTL]

ditto. So you admit that you are not want to know any FACT about Catholic Church which you do not like ? Bravo.

No, it means I think the same of you, you don't want to know the facts about the Catholic Church
here's a good article from Makow, maybe you'll listen to him  since I can't get through your thick skulls

https://www.henrymakow.com/jewish_peril.html


left. Pope Benedict and the future Pope Francis in Masonic (thumb on knuckle) grip.
Jewish Masonry has now completely subverted the Catholic Church.

In 1936, two Catholic newspapers published accounts of speeches given at a recent B'nai Brith conclave in Paris. The article identifies the Catholic Church as the supreme enemy of Jewish Masonry. "We have blackened the Catholic Church with the most ignominious calumnies." It spells out the Illuminati Jewish program of world domination as well as do the Protocols of Zion. Paranoia or a dire warning ignored? You decide.








"And the Gentiles, in their stupidity, have proved easier dupes than we expected them to be.  One would expect more intelligence and more practical common sense, but they are no better than a herd of sheep. Let them graze in our fields till they become fat enough to be worthy of being immolated to our future King of the World..."






Secret Jewish Plot Unveiled by the Catholic Gazette of England  (Last Posted here Oct 5, 2015)

 In the London Catholic Gazette of February 1936, a sensational article was published under the heading: "The Jewish Peril and the Catholic Church".




The monthly organ of the Catholic Missionary Society of England was quoting speeches delivered in a series of secret Jewish meetings in Paris. 




A few weeks later, the Parisian weekly "Le Reveil du Peuple" published a similar account, adding that the statements had been made at a recent convention of the B'nai B'rith (secret Masonic order in which no Gentile is admitted) held in Paris.

The article of  the "Catholic Gazette" read as follows:

 "THE JEWISH PERIL AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH"

 That there had been and still is a Jewish problem no one can deny.  Since the rejection of Israel, 1,900 years ago, the Jews have scattered in every direction, and in spite of the difficulties and even persecution, they have established themselves as a power in nearly every nation of Europe.

 In view of this Jewish problem, which affects the Catholic Church in a special way, we publish the following amazing extracts from a number of speeches recently made under the auspices of a Jewish society in Paris.  The name of our informant must remain concealed.  He is presently known to us, but by reason of his peculiar relations with the Jews at the present time, we have agreed not to disclose his identity nor to give away any further details of the Paris meeting beyond the following extracts which, though sometimes freely translated, nevertheless substantially convey the meaning of the original statements.

--------

"As long as there remains among the Gentiles any moral conception of the social order, and until all faith, patriotism and dignity are uprooted, our reign over the world shall not come.

 "We have already fulfilled part of our work, but we cannot yet claim that the whole of our work is done.  We have still a long way to go before we can overthrow our main opponent: the Catholic Church...

 "We must always bear in mind that the Catholic Church is the only institution which has stood, and which will, as long as it remains in existence, stand in our way.  The Catholic Church, with her methodical work and her edifying and moral teachings, will always keep her children in such a state of mind, as to make them too self-respecting to yield to our domination, and to bow before our future King of Israel...

 "That is why we have been striving to discover the best way of shaking the Catholic Church to her very foundations.  We have spread the spirit of revolt and false liberalism among the nations of the Gentiles so as to persuade them away from their faith and even to make them ashamed of professing the precepts of their Religion and obeying the Commandments of their Church.  We have brought many of them to boast of being atheists, and more than that, to glory in being descendants of the ape!  We have given them new theories, impossible of realization, such as Communism, Anarchism, and Socialism, which are now serving our purpose...The stupid Gentiles have accepted them with the greatest enthusiasm, without realizing that those theories are ours, and that they constitute our most powerful instrument against themselves...

GENTILES BUILDING THEIR OWN JAILS

 "We have blackened the Catholic Church with the most ignominious calumnies, we have stained her history and disgraced even her noblest activities.  We have imputed to her the wrongs of her enemies, and thus brought these latter to stand more closely by our side...  So much so, that we are now witnessing to our greatest satisfaction, rebellions against the Church in several countries... We have turned her clergy into objects of hatred and ridicule, we have subjected them to the contempt of the crowd... We have caused the practice of the Catholic religion to be considered out of date and a mere waste of time..
.
 "And the Gentiles, in their stupidity, have proved easier dupes than we expected them to be.  One would expect more intelligence and more practical common sense, but they are no better than a herd of sheep. Let them graze in our fields till they become fat enough to be worthy of being immolated to our future King of the World...

 "We have founded many secret associations, which all work for our purpose, under our orders and our direction. We have made it an honour, a great honour, for the Gentiles to join us in our organizations, which are, thanks to our gold, flourishing now more than ever. Yet it remains our secret that those Gentiles who betray their own and most precious interests, by joining us in our plot should never know that these associations are of our creation and that they serve our purpose...

"One of the many triumphs of our Freemasonry is that those Gentiles who become members of our Lodges, should never suspect that we are using them to build their own jails, upon whose terraces we shall erect the throne of our Universal King of Israel; and should never know that we are commanding them to forge the chains of their own servility to our future King of the World.

INFILTRATION

"So far, we have considered our strategy in our attacks upon the Catholic Church from the outside.  But this is not all.  Let us now explain how we have gone further in our work, to hasten the ruin of the Catholic Church, and how we have penetrated into her most intimate circles, and brought even some of her Clergy to become pioneers of our cause.

 "Apart altogether from the influence of our philosophy, we have taken other steps to secure a breach in the Catholic Church.  Let me explain how this has been done.

 "We have induced some of our children to join the Catholic body, with the explicit intimation that they should work in a still more efficient way for the disintegration of the Catholic Church, by creating scandals within her.  We have thus followed the advice of our Prince of the Jews, who so wisely said: 'Let some of your children become canons, so that they may destroy the Church'.  Unfortunately, not all among the 'convert' Jews have proved faithful to their mission. Many of them have even betrayed us!  But, on the other hand, others have kept their promise and honored their word.  Thus the counsel of our Elders has proved successful.

REVOLUTION

"We are the Fathers of all Revolutions - even of those which sometimes happen to turn against us.  We are the supreme Masters of Peace and War.  We can boast of being the Creators of the REFORMATION!  Calvin was one of our Children; he was of Jewish descent, and was entrusted by Jewish authority and encouraged with Jewish finance to draft his scheme in the Reformation.

 "Martin Luther yielded to the influence of his Jewish friends, and again, by Jewish authority and with Jewish finance, his plot against the Catholic Church met with success...

 "Thanks to our propaganda, to our theories of Liberalism and to our misrepresentations of Freedom, the minds of many among the Gentiles were ready to welcome the Reformation.  They separated from the Church to fall into our snare.  And thus the Catholic Church has been very sensibly weakened, and her authority over the Kings of the Gentiles has been reduced almost to naught..
.
 "We are grateful to Protestants for their loyalty to our wishes - although most of them are, in the sincerity of their faith, unaware of their loyalty to us. We are grateful to them for the wonderful help they are giving us in our fight against the stronghold of Christian Civilization, and in our preparations for the advent of our supremacy over the whole world and over the Kingdoms of the Gentiles.

 "So far we have succeeded in overthrowing most of the Thrones of Europe.  The rest will follow in the near future.  Russia has already worshiped our rule, France, with her Masonic Government, is under our thumb.  England, in her dependence upon our finance is under our heel; and in her Protestantism is our hope for the destruction of the Catholic Church.  Spain and Mexico are but toys in our hands.  And many other countries, including the U.S.A., have already fallen before our scheming.

CHURCH WAS LAST BASTION

"But the Catholic Church is still alive..
.
 "We must destroy her without the least delay and without the slightest mercy.  Most of the Press in the world is under our Control; let us therefore encourage in a still more violent way the hatred of the world against the Catholic Church.  Let us intensify our activities in poisoning the morality of the Gentiles.  Let us spread the spirit of revolution in the minds of the people.  They must be made to despise Patriotism and the love of their family, to consider their faith as a humbug, their obedience to their Church as a degrading servility, so that they may become deaf to the appeal of the Church and blind to her warnings against us.  Let us, above all, make it impossible for Christians outside the Catholic Church to be reunited with that Church, or for non-Christians to join that Church; otherwise the greatest obstruction to our domination will be strengthened and all our work undone.  Our plot will be unveiled, the Gentiles will turn against us, in the spirit of revenge, and our domination over them will never be realized.

 "Let us remember that as long as there still remain active enemies of the Catholic Church, we may hope to become Masters of the World... And let us remember always that the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before the Pope in Rome is dethroned, as well as all the other reigning monarchs of the Gentiles upon earth."

-----

Related, the book "The Plot Against the Church"  by Maurice Pinay online



- See more at: https://www.henrymakow.com/jewish_peril.html#sthash.ZN3neCeM.dpuf

[Al Bundy]

No, it means I think the same of you, you don't want to know the facts about the Catholic Church
here's a good article from Makow, maybe you'll listen to him  since I can't get through your thick skulls

https://www.henrymakow.com/jewish_peril.html


left. Pope Benedict and the future Pope Francis in Masonic (thumb on knuckle) grip.
Jewish Masonry has now completely subverted the Catholic Church.

In 1936, two Catholic newspapers published accounts of speeches given at a recent B'nai Brith conclave in Paris. The article identifies the Catholic Church as the supreme enemy of Jewish Masonry. "We have blackened the Catholic Church with the most ignominious calumnies." It spells out the Illuminati Jewish program of world domination as well as do the Protocols of Zion. Paranoia or a dire warning ignored? You decide.








"And the Gentiles, in their stupidity, have proved easier dupes than we expected them to be.  One would expect more intelligence and more practical common sense, but they are no better than a herd of sheep. Let them graze in our fields till they become fat enough to be worthy of being immolated to our future King of the World..."






Secret Jewish Plot Unveiled by the Catholic Gazette of England  (Last Posted here Oct 5, 2015)

 In the London Catholic Gazette of February 1936, a sensational article was published under the heading: "The Jewish Peril and the Catholic Church".




The monthly organ of the Catholic Missionary Society of England was quoting speeches delivered in a series of secret Jewish meetings in Paris. 




A few weeks later, the Parisian weekly "Le Reveil du Peuple" published a similar account, adding that the statements had been made at a recent convention of the B'nai B'rith (secret Masonic order in which no Gentile is admitted) held in Paris.

The article of  the "Catholic Gazette" read as follows:

 "THE JEWISH PERIL AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH"

 That there had been and still is a Jewish problem no one can deny.  Since the rejection of Israel, 1,900 years ago, the Jews have scattered in every direction, and in spite of the difficulties and even persecution, they have established themselves as a power in nearly every nation of Europe.

 In view of this Jewish problem, which affects the Catholic Church in a special way, we publish the following amazing extracts from a number of speeches recently made under the auspices of a Jewish society in Paris.  The name of our informant must remain concealed.  He is presently known to us, but by reason of his peculiar relations with the Jews at the present time, we have agreed not to disclose his identity nor to give away any further details of the Paris meeting beyond the following extracts which, though sometimes freely translated, nevertheless substantially convey the meaning of the original statements.

--------

"As long as there remains among the Gentiles any moral conception of the social order, and until all faith, patriotism and dignity are uprooted, our reign over the world shall not come.

 "We have already fulfilled part of our work, but we cannot yet claim that the whole of our work is done.  We have still a long way to go before we can overthrow our main opponent: the Catholic Church...

 "We must always bear in mind that the Catholic Church is the only institution which has stood, and which will, as long as it remains in existence, stand in our way.  The Catholic Church, with her methodical work and her edifying and moral teachings, will always keep her children in such a state of mind, as to make them too self-respecting to yield to our domination, and to bow before our future King of Israel...

 "That is why we have been striving to discover the best way of shaking the Catholic Church to her very foundations.  We have spread the spirit of revolt and false liberalism among the nations of the Gentiles so as to persuade them away from their faith and even to make them ashamed of professing the precepts of their Religion and obeying the Commandments of their Church.  We have brought many of them to boast of being atheists, and more than that, to glory in being descendants of the ape!  We have given them new theories, impossible of realization, such as Communism, Anarchism, and Socialism, which are now serving our purpose...The stupid Gentiles have accepted them with the greatest enthusiasm, without realizing that those theories are ours, and that they constitute our most powerful instrument against themselves...

GENTILES BUILDING THEIR OWN JAILS

 "We have blackened the Catholic Church with the most ignominious calumnies, we have stained her history and disgraced even her noblest activities.  We have imputed to her the wrongs of her enemies, and thus brought these latter to stand more closely by our side...  So much so, that we are now witnessing to our greatest satisfaction, rebellions against the Church in several countries... We have turned her clergy into objects of hatred and ridicule, we have subjected them to the contempt of the crowd... We have caused the practice of the Catholic religion to be considered out of date and a mere waste of time..
.
 "And the Gentiles, in their stupidity, have proved easier dupes than we expected them to be.  One would expect more intelligence and more practical common sense, but they are no better than a herd of sheep. Let them graze in our fields till they become fat enough to be worthy of being immolated to our future King of the World...

 "We have founded many secret associations, which all work for our purpose, under our orders and our direction. We have made it an honour, a great honour, for the Gentiles to join us in our organizations, which are, thanks to our gold, flourishing now more than ever. Yet it remains our secret that those Gentiles who betray their own and most precious interests, by joining us in our plot should never know that these associations are of our creation and that they serve our purpose...

"One of the many triumphs of our Freemasonry is that those Gentiles who become members of our Lodges, should never suspect that we are using them to build their own jails, upon whose terraces we shall erect the throne of our Universal King of Israel; and should never know that we are commanding them to forge the chains of their own servility to our future King of the World.

INFILTRATION

"So far, we have considered our strategy in our attacks upon the Catholic Church from the outside.  But this is not all.  Let us now explain how we have gone further in our work, to hasten the ruin of the Catholic Church, and how we have penetrated into her most intimate circles, and brought even some of her Clergy to become pioneers of our cause.

 "Apart altogether from the influence of our philosophy, we have taken other steps to secure a breach in the Catholic Church.  Let me explain how this has been done.

 "We have induced some of our children to join the Catholic body, with the explicit intimation that they should work in a still more efficient way for the disintegration of the Catholic Church, by creating scandals within her.  We have thus followed the advice of our Prince of the Jews, who so wisely said: 'Let some of your children become canons, so that they may destroy the Church'.  Unfortunately, not all among the 'convert' Jews have proved faithful to their mission. Many of them have even betrayed us!  But, on the other hand, others have kept their promise and honored their word.  Thus the counsel of our Elders has proved successful.

REVOLUTION

"We are the Fathers of all Revolutions - even of those which sometimes happen to turn against us.  We are the supreme Masters of Peace and War.  We can boast of being the Creators of the REFORMATION!  Calvin was one of our Children; he was of Jewish descent, and was entrusted by Jewish authority and encouraged with Jewish finance to draft his scheme in the Reformation.

 "Martin Luther yielded to the influence of his Jewish friends, and again, by Jewish authority and with Jewish finance, his plot against the Catholic Church met with success...

 "Thanks to our propaganda, to our theories of Liberalism and to our misrepresentations of Freedom, the minds of many among the Gentiles were ready to welcome the Reformation.  They separated from the Church to fall into our snare.  And thus the Catholic Church has been very sensibly weakened, and her authority over the Kings of the Gentiles has been reduced almost to naught..
.
 "We are grateful to Protestants for their loyalty to our wishes - although most of them are, in the sincerity of their faith, unaware of their loyalty to us. We are grateful to them for the wonderful help they are giving us in our fight against the stronghold of Christian Civilization, and in our preparations for the advent of our supremacy over the whole world and over the Kingdoms of the Gentiles.

 "So far we have succeeded in overthrowing most of the Thrones of Europe.  The rest will follow in the near future.  Russia has already worshiped our rule, France, with her Masonic Government, is under our thumb.  England, in her dependence upon our finance is under our heel; and in her Protestantism is our hope for the destruction of the Catholic Church.  Spain and Mexico are but toys in our hands.  And many other countries, including the U.S.A., have already fallen before our scheming.

CHURCH WAS LAST BASTION

"But the Catholic Church is still alive..
.
 "We must destroy her without the least delay and without the slightest mercy.  Most of the Press in the world is under our Control; let us therefore encourage in a still more violent way the hatred of the world against the Catholic Church.  Let us intensify our activities in poisoning the morality of the Gentiles.  Let us spread the spirit of revolution in the minds of the people.  They must be made to despise Patriotism and the love of their family, to consider their faith as a humbug, their obedience to their Church as a degrading servility, so that they may become deaf to the appeal of the Church and blind to her warnings against us.  Let us, above all, make it impossible for Christians outside the Catholic Church to be reunited with that Church, or for non-Christians to join that Church; otherwise the greatest obstruction to our domination will be strengthened and all our work undone.  Our plot will be unveiled, the Gentiles will turn against us, in the spirit of revenge, and our domination over them will never be realized.

 "Let us remember that as long as there still remain active enemies of the Catholic Church, we may hope to become Masters of the World... And let us remember always that the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before the Pope in Rome is dethroned, as well as all the other reigning monarchs of the Gentiles upon earth."

-----

Related, the book "The Plot Against the Church"  by Maurice Pinay online



- See more at: https://www.henrymakow.com/jewish_peril.html#sthash.ZN3neCeM.dpuf

I heard of them. Henry Makow and group of Maurice Pinay.
But, on this day 1942 Hungarian soldiers and gendaremerie killed 2000 Serbs, Jews and Gypsies in town Novi Sad. Supreme commander of Hungarian Army was Regent Admiral Miklos Horthy. Why Roman Pope Pius XII, at least, threatened or sought to punish the perpetrators of pogroms in occupied Serbia, or why Pope did not excommunicated the Hungarian Regent Horthy from the Catholic Church? 



innocent victims in occupied Serbia in WW2

You still think that I do not want to know the true about Catholic Church ?

[DAVIDE MTL]

I heard of them. Henry Makow and group of Maurice Pinay.
But, on this day 1942 Hungarian soldiers and gendaremerie killed 2000 Serbs, Jews and Gypsies in town Novi Sad. Supreme commander of Hungarian Army was Regent Admiral Miklos Horthy. Why Roman Pope Pius XII, at least, threatened or sought to punish the perpetrators of pogroms in occupied Serbia, or why Pope did not excommunicated the Hungarian Regent Horthy from the Catholic Church? 



innocent victims in occupied Serbia in WW2

You still think that I do not want to know the true about Catholic Church ?

I just gave you a heavy summary on the battle between the Jew World Order and the Catholic Church, you come back and state The Pope didn't excommunicate Horthy and you think this means something? I hope you want to know the true history  of the Catholic Church? If you do you would look more into my claims , right now you don't know much.

[EvadingGrid]

my "assertion " that jew freemasons have infiltrated the Church is fact to anyone who cares to do a little research, I told you to pm me and I could send you more, you have a lot to learn

So are you recruiting for the neo-nazis or the kkk ?

[Al Bundy]

@David MTL

Maybe I do not know "the real history of Catholic Church" but I wonder how Hitler and Mussolini did not figured it out that Vatican is headquarters of "Freemasonry Jews" ? 
You or do not know anything about the Catholic Church here, or уоu recruiting new neo-Nazis, racists, clero-fascists ....

[DAVIDE MTL]

So are you recruiting for the neo-nazis or the kkk ?

you fall into the NWO trap by making nonsensical comments like this, the article  is  written by Henry Makow, a jew...would you ask him if he's recruiting for KKK? I know  a lot of jewish people who are decent human beings, they are unaware of the conspiracy. When I write jews I mean the synagogue of satan , that were condemned by Christ, the jewish communists, freemasons...the new world order who have always wanted to destroy the Church of Christ

the Catholic Church has had to defend itself from jewery from it's inception , according to Zionist  groups like Bnai Brith and people like yourself, you would call the Catholic Church anti semetic for what they have done in the past in order to protect itself from jewish power. 

pg 131
from The Plot Against  the Church

So that Catholics may not have the slightest doubt of the
testimonies which are recorded, we translate with special care
what the outstanding Zionist writer Joseph Dunner writes in
his book “The Republic of Israel”, in which he asserts the
following:
“For every sect believing in Christ, Jesus is the symbol of
everything that is healthy and worthy of love. For the Jews he
is from the 4th century onward the symbol of ‘Antisemitism’, of
slander, of violence and of violent death.”36

If the Israelites regard our Lord Jesus Christ as a symbol of
“Antisemitism”, or better expressed, of “Anti-Judaism”, then
they are completely right; for if they describe as “Antisemites”
those who blame and combat their disgraceful deeds, then our
Divine Redeemer was the first who did this. When our Lord
Jesus Christ had a discussion with certain Jews, He began the
following dialogue, as the Gospel of John relates:


Chapter VIII, Verse 39: “They answered and said unto him,
‘Abraham is our father.’ Jesus saith unto them, ‘If ye were
Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40.
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth,
which I have heard of God; this did not Abraham. 41. Ye do the
deeds of your father.’ Then said they to him, ‘We be not born of
fornication; we have one father, even God.’ 44. ‘Ye are of your
father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was
a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he
speaketh of his own; for he is a liar and the father of it. 47. He
that is of God heareth God’s words; ye therefore hear them not,
because ye are not of God.’ 48. Then answered the Jews, and
said unto him, ‘Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and
hast a devil?’ 49. Jesus answered, ‘I have not a devil; but I
honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.’ ” And this passage
of the Gospel ended with the following verses: “57. Then said
the Jews unto him, ‘Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast
thou seen Abraham?’ 58. Jesus said unto them, ‘Verily, verily, I
say unto you: Before Abraham was, I am.’ 59. Then took they
up stones to cast at him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of
the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed
by.”37

In the preceding passage of the Gospel of John, one sees
how Christ, our Lord, upbraids the Jews for their murderous
intentions, and calls them children of the devil. He likewise
proves that the Hebrews of that time were unable to carry on
discussions in a calm and honourable form, exactly as today,
without bringing in insults, slanders or violent actions, always
according to its suiting them. And if with our Divine Redeemer
they used lies and insults and attempted to dishonour Him, as
He Himself gives evidence in Verse 49, or strove to end the
discussion with stone-throwing, what could we poor human
creatures then expect?

[DAVIDE MTL]

@David MTL

Maybe I do not know "the real history of Catholic Church" but I wonder how Hitler and Mussolini did not figured it out that Vatican is headquarters of "Freemasonry Jews" ? 
You or do not know anything about the Catholic Church here, or уоu recruiting new neo-Nazis, racists, clero-fascists ....

During the time of Nazi's we had a true Catholic pope, from 1958 we have had freemasons pretending to be catholic....I don't know what you are babbling about with regard to racists, you have a lot to learn

[EvadingGrid]

During the time of Nazi's we had a true Catholic pope, from 1958 we have had freemasons pretending to be catholic....I don't know what you are babbling about with regard to racists, you have a lot to learn

So you are a freak'n Nazi lover

[Al Bundy]

@David MTL

Maybe I do not know "the real history of Catholic Church" but I wonder how Hitler and Mussolini did not figured it out that Vatican is headquarters of "Freemasonry Jews" ? 
You or do not know anything about the Catholic Church here, or уоu recruiting new neo-Nazis, racists, clero-fascists ....

I was right. You have no right to quoting the Bible то condemn the Jews. That is blasphemy, herecy, clerical fascism...

Yes, corrupt leaders of Sanhedrin manipulated with Jews and ask Roman Governer Pontius Pilatus to crucified Jesus Christ with false accusations. Pilatus was affraid of Jewish Rebellion approved crucifixion of Lord Jesus Christ. All that does not justified Holocaust. Neither the Holocaust justifies Jews all over the world, that the authorities in the Republic of Israel to commit war crimes ( PM Netanyahu )  and acts of terrorism (Mossad), or that Jewish bankers (Rothschild in the first place) make a "new world order" in which they were the absolute rulers of the world. 

[EvadingGrid]

New World Order does not believe in countries or races or religions

Therefore it is ridiculous to blame any one race, religion, creed or nationality.

Complete Logic Fail

[DAVIDE MTL]

New World Order does not believe in countries or races or religions

Therefore it is ridiculous to blame any one race, religion, creed or nationality.

Complete Logic Fail

Lucifer, the Light-Bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not !

Albert Pike, 33-degree Freemason and author of Morals and Dogma

that's their religion, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out

[DAVIDE MTL]

I was right. You have no right to quoting the Bible то condemn the Jews. That is blasphemy, herecy, clerical fascism...

Yes, corrupt leaders of Sanhedrin manipulated with Jews and ask Roman Governer Pontius Pilatus to crucified Jesus Christ with false accusations. Pilatus was affraid of Jewish Rebellion approved crucifixion of Lord Jesus Christ. All that does not justified Holocaust. Neither the Holocaust justifies Jews all over the world, that the authorities in the Republic of Israel to commit war crimes ( PM Netanyahu )  and acts of terrorism (Mossad), or that Jewish bankers (Rothschild in the first place) make a "new world order" in which they were the absolute rulers of the world.

what are you yapping about now, you are all over the place, when did I comment on the holocaust?

as for the bible I can and will quote  to condemn the jews.

I'll quote the same book

The New Testament of the Holy Bible already makes use inthese books of the word “Jews” in order to describe the
members of the ancient chosen people who murdered God’s
Son and fought against His Church; for those who had
converted to the faith of the Redeemer were not Jews, but
Christians. The Jews, who in our days persecute the Church
still further and threaten to rule and enslave mankind, are in
fact the descendants of these Jews, who are described by the
New Testament as the worst enemies of Christ and His Church.
They have nothing in common spiritually with the old chosen
people of Biblical times. The chosen people was loved by God.
However, the Jews who denied their Messiah, who murdered
Him and who fought against Christianity and continue to fight
against it, and who stiff-neckedly grant support to their
criminal organisations in our days, are, as Saint Paul said, not
acceptable to God.

In Chapter XVII of the aforementioned book of the New
Testament, it is said that Saint Paul and Silas came to
Thessalonia, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.
“5. But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took
unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered
a company, and set all the city in an uproar, and assaulted the
house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people. 6.
And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain
brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, ‘These that have
turned the world upside down are come hither also. 7. Whom
Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of
Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.’ 8. And
they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they
heard these things. 9. And when they had taken security of
Jason, and of the other, they let them go.” 80
The passages quoted of the Holy Scripture prove clearly
that the Jews were the only enemies of nascent Christianity
and that everywhere they not only directly persecuted the
Christians, but attempted with slanders to stir up the Gentile
peoples against them, and, what is still more weighty, the
authorities of the Roman Empire. In the preceding passage of
the Acts of the Apostles it is evident how they used slanders, in
order with criminal intent to thrust the whole power of the
then invincible Roman Empire against Holy Church, by their
more or less accusing the Christians of recognising another
king in place of Caesar, an outrage which infuriated the Romanemperors and their collaborators to the extreme; for this form
of treachery to Caesar invited immediate punishment of death
upon them. Thus it is beyond doubt what the Israelites strove
for, who for many years afterwards applied the whole poison of
their slanders and intrigues. However, they were not successful
in letting loose the Roman Empire against the Christians. Only
on the basis of much pressure did they attain this with Nero.
An attempt also took place to stir up the rulers of Rome against
Saint Paul, as the following passage of the New Testament
proves:
Chapter XVIII: “12. And when Gallio was the deputy of
Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against
Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat, 13. Saying, ‘This
fellow persuadeth men to worship God contrary to the law.’ 14.
And when Paul was now about to open his mouth, Gallio said
unto the Jews, ‘If it were a matter of wrong or wicked
lewdness, 0 ye Jews, reason would that I should bear with you:
15. But if it be a question of words and names, and of your law,
look ye to it; for I will be no judge of such matters.’ 16. And he
drove them from the judgment seat. 17. Then all the Greeks
took Sostheness, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him
before the judgment seat. And Gallio cared for none of those
things.” 81 This passage of the Holy Bible allows us to recognise:
On the one side the religious tolerance of the Roman
authorities and the absolute lack of interest in attacking
Christians; on the other side it was the Hebrews who
constantly sought for means in order to repeatedly unleash,
even if unsuccessfully, the rulers of the Roman Empire against
the Christians. In conclusion, when such an infamous attempt
had failed, the Jews as madmen ended the affair with a general
and furious free fight. Here Sosthenes, the superintendent of
the Synagogue, became the unlucky object of Hebrew rage and
madness. Naturally, we cannot doubt the truthfulness of these
facts, for it is a matter of a literal passage from the New
Testament.

[donnay]

you fall into the NWO trap by making nonsensical comments like this, the article  is  written by Henry Makow, a jew...would you ask him if he's recruiting for KKK? I know  a lot of jewish people who are decent human beings, they are unaware of the conspiracy. When I write jews I mean the synagogue of satan , that were condemned by Christ, the jewish communists, freemasons...the new world order who have always wanted to destroy the Church of Christ

the Catholic Church has had to defend itself from jewery from it's inception , according to Zionist  groups like Bnai Brith and people like yourself, you would call the Catholic Church anti semetic for what they have done in the past in order to protect itself from jewish power. 

(...)

David,

The synagogue of Satan are the Kenites, the sons of Cain, the first murderer--who claim to be Jews but are not.


John 8:42-47 (KJV)
V42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me.
V43 Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word.
V44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
V45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe Me not.
V46 Which of you convinceth Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe Me?
V47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Do you know what the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia taught? About the Kenites (sons of Cain).  Jesus found no fault with their teachings.

Revelation 2:8-11 (KJV)
V8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the First and the Last, Which was dead, and is alive;
V9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
V10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
V11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; he that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


Revelation 3:7-13 (KJV)
V7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He That is Holy, He That is True, He That hath the key of David, He That openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
V8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
V9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
V10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
V11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
V12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name.
V13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I believe I have posted this before.  It is worth reading and it is clearly backed up by Biblical references:
The Synagogue of Satan: Those Who Claim To Be Judah But Do Lie
http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2013/10/the-synagogue-of-satan-those-who-claim.html

[DAVIDE MTL]

David,

The synagogue of Satan are the Kenites, the sons of Cain, the first murderer--who claim to be Jews but are not.


John 8:42-47 (KJV)
V42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me.
V43 Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word.
V44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
V45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe Me not.
V46 Which of you convinceth Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe Me?
V47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Do you know what the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia taught? About the Kenites (sons of Cain).  Jesus found no fault with their teachings.

Revelation 2:8-11 (KJV)
V8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the First and the Last, Which was dead, and is alive;
V9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
V10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
V11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; he that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


Revelation 3:7-13 (KJV)
V7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He That is Holy, He That is True, He That hath the key of David, He That openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
V8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
V9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
V10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
V11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
V12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name.
V13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I believe I have posted this before.  It is worth reading and it is clearly backed up by Biblical references:
The Synagogue of Satan: Those Who Claim To Be Judah But Do Lie
http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2013/10/the-synagogue-of-satan-those-who-claim.html

Origen disagrees

Origen stated that all the descendants of Cain perished in the Flood, and that all humankind therefore descends from Seth.

There's no denying the jews are at the top of the new world order chain,their father is Lucifer... the talmud is satanic. Now this does not mean that the jew down the corner knows any of this, most are secular jews and no nothing of the conspiracy.

[EvadingGrid]

Origen disagrees

Origen stated that all the descendants of Cain perished in the Flood, and that all humankind therefore descends from Seth.

There's no denying the jews are at the top of the new world order chain,their father is Lucifer... the talmud is satanic. Now this does not mean that the jew down the corner knows any of this, most are secular jews and no nothing of the conspiracy.

Do you know who you are quoting now ?
LOL

[donnay]

Origen disagrees

Origen stated that all the descendants of Cain perished in the Flood, and that all humankind therefore descends from Seth.

First: Noah was told to take two (2) of every flesh.  Kenites were flesh.  Noah and his family were the only pure bloodline of which Jesus would be born from--umbilical cord to umbilical cord.

Cain wasn't even Adam's (Et-Ha-Adam) son.  He was Satan's son. (Adam's genealogy proves that Gen.5  Cain is not even mentioned).  Kenite's are the son of Cain.  Cain went to Nod (Genesis 4:16) and took a wife.  Where did this wife come from?  The six day creation (all the races were created on the 6th day).  It is explained well here:  http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2009/11/world-that-then-was-first-earth-age.html

There's no denying the jews are at the top of the new world order chain,their father is Lucifer... the talmud is satanic. Now this does not mean that the jew down the corner knows any of this, most are secular jews and no nothing of the conspiracy.

There is denying:  The top of the NWO is a group of Satan's children--The Kenites.  The Kenites claim to be Jews and are not.

[EvadingGrid]

Origen disagrees

Origen stated that all the descendants of Cain perished in the Flood, and that all humankind therefore descends from Seth.

There's no denying the jews are at the top of the new world order chain,their father is Lucifer... the talmud is satanic. Now this does not mean that the jew down the corner knows any of this, most are secular jews and no nothing of the conspiracy.

Its good that you continue to discredit yourself by posting.

[Geolibertarian]

[DAVIDE MTL]

Its good that you continue to discredit yourself by posting.

coming from the guy who wrote:New World Order does not believe in countries or races or RELIGIONS

doesn't mean much

[DAVIDE MTL]

First: Noah was told to take two (2) of every flesh.  Kenites were flesh.  Noah and his family were the only pure bloodline of which Jesus would be born from--umbilical cord to umbilical cord.

Cain wasn't even Adam's (Et-Ha-Adam) son.  He was Satan's son. (Adam's genealogy proves that Gen.5  Cain is not even mentioned).  Kenite's are the son of Cain.  Cain went to Nod (Genesis 4:16) and took a wife.  Where did this wife come from?  The six day creation (all the races were created on the 6th day).  It is explained well here:  http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2009/11/world-that-then-was-first-earth-age.html

There is denying:  The top of the NWO is a group of Satan's children--The Kenites.  The Kenites claim to be Jews and are not.

Satan's children agreed, you can call them whatever you like, cabal jews, communist jews, there are many names and this is not to condemn all people who claim to be jews, many don't know their own religion, they are probably not aware the Talmud is satanic..
 but I don't argue with the bible who call them jews

Chapter I, Verse 13: “For ye have heard of my conversation
in the past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I
persecuted the church of God, and wasted it.”73 The Jews do
not accept God, asserts Paul. The Hebrews persecuted with
particular tenacity, as is natural, the Apostles and the first
leaders of the Church, of which Saint Paul lays witness in his
First Letter to the Thessalonians, and in which he categorically
asserts that the Jews do not accept God. He says literally: “14.
For, ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God
which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered
like things for your own countrymen, even as they have of the
Jews; 15. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own
prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God,
and are contrary to all men.”

14th chapter

But the multitude of the city was divided: and part held
with the Jews, and part with the Apostles. 5. And when there
was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews
with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them,
6. They were aware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities
of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about. 19.
And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and
Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul,
drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.”79
One thus sees that even in those days the division was very
clear: on the one side the supporters of the Apostles, i.e. the
Christians, and on the other, the Jews

[EvadingGrid]

coming from the guy who wrote:New World Order does not believe in countries or races or RELIGIONS

doesn't mean much

Go google Bill Cooper Mystery Babylon